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Blackburn Corporation – Leyland PS1 – BCB 340/EAS 956 – 7


Copyright Duncan Holden

Blackburn Corporation Transport
1948
Leyland Tiger PS1
Crossley B32F

Blackburn Corporation Transports roots go back to the first services in 1881, the trams, unusually, being wholly steam-hauled for the whole period, with corporation takeover and subsequent electrification in 1901.
Bus services started in 1929. Tramway closures started in 1935, but the system’s complete demise was delayed by the unpleasantness between 1939 and 1945; finally closing in 1949.
In March 1948, BCT took delivery of five single-deck Leyland PS1’s, with Crossley B32F bodies, the second half of an order placed in 1947. This second batch were numbered 6-10 (BCB 339-343). They were delivered with the typical Crossley body design of two shallower rear windows. At some stage, these four windows were altered to resemble the others. They also had painted radiators, later becoming chrome. Clayton Dewandre heaters were a fitment, and unusually, for a bus, the front entrance has a recessed sliding door. You can see the emergency exit in the rear of the bus.
The buses spent most of their lives on the so-called East/West route, merely bearing the words EAST or WEST on their blinds. Quaintly, the rear ‘blind’ was a very small window box low down on the rear nearside, with a flap hinged across the centre. The flap moved up or down to expose either ‘EAST’ or ‘WEST’, printed on short vehicle registration plates – crude, but effective!
The batch was finally withdrawn from service between 1964 and 1969, No. 7 being withdrawn on 28/2/1967. However, it remained in the fleet, eventually as a heritage vehicle, being transferred to the company’s coaching arm, Blackburn Coachways. It was very active in the preservation scene in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s.
Some time after 1998, she was re-registered EAS 956. (The BCB 340 registration was transferred, firstly, to a Volvo B10M coach in the Blackburn Transport fleet, in 2002; then going onto East Lancs-bodied Dennis Trident double decker No.1, which carried the mark, until being sold to Blackpool in 2007).

Copyright Chris Hebbron

In 2004, the PS1 was sold and purchased by keen bus enthusiast, Merddyn Jones, of Jones International Coaches of Llandeilo, who mechanically restored it. My photo was taken in 2007, outside Jones’s garage. Imagine how surprised I was to find a Blackburn bus, perchance, in rural Wales!
In 2008, the bus was acquired by Silver Star Holidays, of Caernarfon. It earns its keep, together with an impeccable 1950 Burlingham-bodied AEC Regal III (LPT 328) , on vintage coach tours/weddings etc. In a photo I’ve seen, dated last January, it was looking very smart, apparently having had a repaint.
A sister vehicle, No.8 (BCB 341) has also been preserved.
A keen Leyland aficionado, Merddyn now owns something bigger, an ex-Southdown ‘Queen Mary’.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron (with thanks to Duncan Holden and Merddyn Jones).

26/09/11 – 06:23

7 didn’t remain with Blackburn after withdrawal. It went into private preservation in the Manchester area. I recall it appearing nicely restored in the early eighties and it was still with an owner in Stockport at that time. Blackburn only bought it back later.
It is worth crediting Duncan Holden’s site as it is an excellent example of what can be done on one operator. If you like Blackburn’s fleet allow yourself plenty of time to look at it //www.olivegreenandivory.co.uk

David Beilby

04/10/11 – 17:14

Thanks, David, for filling in a gap of which I wasn’t aware.

Chris Hebbron

27/10/11 – 07:29

Thank you for the correction to the history of Blackburn 7 (BCB 340).
In 1968 – 7 was sold to a dealer along with most of the remaining batch and was expected to be scrapped, but she was sold to a youth band and toured Europe.
Laid up after 1973, I and three friends rescued and purchased 7 in 1976 at the eleventh hour for its scrap value, in a semi derelict, vandalised condition, from a Stockport group, with a ceased frost damaged engine and we spent several years rebuilding it to a very high standard. We rallied it extensively from 1977 to 1992 when we sold it back to Blackburn, who had hired it from us occasionally. Blackburn did nothing to it and sold it on to Jones. Its ivory/off white colour has been repainted in the wrong shade, and applied around the cab, which is incorrect. The green and lining out is as we applied it with varnish in 1985. It had had a full mechanical rebuild in the 1980’s including the engine. We were very fond of it and it is nice to see it still looking good and earning its keep, which is exactly how we wanted it to be. I still have most of its history and some other information. A lovely bus to own and drive!

Steve Heginbotham

27/10/11 – 13:58

Thx for filling in some more detail. Your tale is so typical of the trials and tribulations which vehicles (and restorers) go through and the wonder is how some vehicles ever survive them! Have you been involved in any more restorations?

Chris Hebbron

08/11/11 – 06:45

Yes, both me and my Brother-in-law where involved in the very early stages of the restoration of Manchester tram 765 when it was kept in Birchfields Road depot. I also did some dismantling work on a similar tram to Stockport 5 and the parts (to equip 5) were kept in our house for several years. I also restored cars, motorcycles, and 3 AFS vehicles. Alas I now only have two vintage motorcycles and devote my spare time to compiling books on transport. We went to Blackburn Transport in 1977 for a crash course in vehicle body restoration and professional painting skills, which is why 7 still looks so good. 8 layers of hand applied, top quality paint, perfectly matched and applied with brushes at £30 each in those days!!
We also considered buying sister bus number 8 when it was kept at Burtonwood Airfield, and then almost completely intact.

Steve Heginbotham

09/11/11 – 06:15

Phew, Steve, someone should give you a medal for your efforts, although I know you’d argue it was a labour of love! It’s certainly a record to be proud of, anyway!

Chris Hebbron

01/12/12 – 09:18

The Olive Green & Ivory website mentioned above has been having problems with images being freely filched and used on the web by others. It was taken down completely, but in response to many requests a small part of it has now been reinstated, with anti-theft watermarking.
Please help the webmaster by following the link to the site, looking at the quality of the few pics that have been reinstated, and leaving your (helpful and productive, please) comments. www.olivegreenandivory.co.uk

Tony

07/02/13 – 14:27

This is a question for Steve Heginbotham, I’m trying to trace the sister bus BCB 341 – I am unable to contact ‘Queensbury Old Farts Club’ as their email won’t receive and they are the last know owners. Can you help? Or can anybody else help? Please??

Rachel

07/02/13 – 16:48

Classic Bus website shows BCB 341 vehicle now owned by Mr Young in Faversham but that was in 2010
Blackburn 8, PS1 {472994} / Crossley B32F, 1948, BCB 341, North West Museum of Transport 2005. To Beeby, Huddersfield 10/06. Queensbury Old Farts Motor Club, Bradford 2007, but restoration stalled. Sold on eBay 10/09 to Young, Faversham. Major work underway 2010.

Ken Jones

11/02/13 – 06:58

Thanks Ken – that’s as far as I got with her too – does anyone know who Mr Young is? or even better how to contact him? Many thanks.

Rachel

25/11/15 – 07:14

Remember travelling on these as a kid, They were used to transport us from the Tech & Grammar School in the centre of town to the baths at Belper Street for swimming lessons as well as the regular East Park Drive and West Park Drive services which ran either side of the Corporation Park.

Bernie Dickinson

06/06/16 – 06:40

Sadly, I have now found number 7 stored in the open, and out of use for at least three years in the corrosive sea air of the North Wales coast, after the owning company folded in 2013. Now in a semi derelict state, rotting away and requiring major work to put right, this previously immaculately restored, very well kept and much loved and rare bus has been very neglected and is likely doomed for scrap.

Steve Heginbotham

16/09/19 – 06:22

EAS 956

I have purchased Blackburn Leyland PS1 number 7 for the second time and will restore her again. In a very poor state and requiring a total rebuild. I hope to have her back up to scratch by 2021.

Steve Heginbotham

18/09/19 – 07:22

You’re a real stickler for punishment, Steve, but good luck with your task.
It seems so long that I saw her in Llandeilo, in 2007. Anyone know the situation with No.8?

Chris Hebbron

23/09/19 – 07:10

Thanks for words of encouragement Chris.
Number 8 is still on DVLA records but it’s not been seen for decades.
Last noted in Faversham 2008.

Steve Heginbotham

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

20/12/20 – 06:48

Blackburn 7 is currently in my shed not owned by me but having just been lined out and emblems applied. Understand going back to earning it’s keep in 2021.

Roger Burdett

West Midlands PTE – Leyland Tiger – JOJ 252 – 2252


Copyright Ian Wild

West Midlands PTE
1950
Leyland Tiger PS2/1
Weymann B34F

PMT went through various vehicle shortages in 1969/70 mainly as a result of the unreliability of the Roadliner fleet which was sucking maintenance resources from the rest of the fleet. East Midland and Trent loaned Tiger Cubs but a real surprise was the hiring of up to nine of these quite antiquated looking buses from West Midlands PTE. They were absolutely immaculate inside and out and with plenty of power from the 0.600 engines in such a small vehicle. This particular bus had three periods on hire of which this was the third, earlier it had the Birmingham coat of arms rather than the WMPTE logo on the side. They were unsuitable for OMO so ended up in many cases on heavily loaded urban services normally operated by 72 seat Atlanteans or Fleetlines – not ideal. The bus is pictured outside Stoke Depot on 19th April 1970.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

16/02/12 – 07:07

JOJ 245_lr

Fortunately a number of these splendid and reliable vehicles have been preserved. This example looking resplendent at the Wythall Museum in 2010.

Nigel Edwards

16/02/12 – 07:08

Strange how these vehicles had chromium plated radiators as late as 1950. I believe Manchester Corporation specified them also.

Chris Barker

18/02/12 – 07:14

Manchester Corporation had chromium plated radiators on their PD2 Titans right up to the final batch delivered in the mid-sixties. These were invariably painted red at the earliest opportunity completely ruining the appearance of the elegant Leyland exposed radiator and giving a very tatty appearance to the vehicles.
I believe the pressed metal chromium plated radiator cost less than the cast aluminium unit which by this time was the norm. Previous posts on this site have referred to the then GM, Albert Neal having a frugal approach to vehicle purchasing.

Philip Halstead

27/09/12 – 07:19

I have to disagree about Manchester painting the chromium plated radiators red “at the earliest opportunity”
Certainly there were many examples of over use of the spray gun but the majority of the PD2s were not so abused. Parrs Wood depot in particular, which had a majority complement of PD2s, was known for “spit and polish” and it wasn’t until very late in the 1960s that the standard dropped, with the exception of a couple of the Northern Counties bodied PD2s of the 1953 batch which received their 1958 spray booth scheme second repaint in the mid 1960s when loaned out to another depot (Sharston if I remember) and were left looking less than happy compared to their stable mates.

Phil Blinkhorn

28/09/12 – 08:01

I always used to think that chromium plated radiators were painted into fleet livery at some later date but surely this cannot be. It would be virtually impossible to apply paint on top of chromium plating and it would very quickly come off anyway. The necessary treatment, I imagine, would be to immerse the thing into a sort of acid bath to remove the plating prior to applying paint. Does anyone know if this was the case, or if the radiators were simply replaced as complete units?

Chris Barker

28/09/12 – 14:36

The radiators weren’t replaced. Albert Neal, under whose regime the so called overall red scheme came in and during which period most of the Leyland radiators were painted, was far too frugal and beset with the problem of balancing the books for that.
The Leylands that were so treated were generally allocated to primarily Daimler garages, or received their treatment whilst on loan to them. From 1953 all Daimlers had tin or fibreglass fronts and were all red and were just put through the bus wash. The Leylands were supposed to have had their chrome work wiped off after passing through the wash, so presumably the Daimler garages wanted to skip this step.
The method used to spray MCTD vehicles from 1957 onwards was a hot spray method which baked the paint on as it was applied. This may have helped the paint to stick to chrome, I don’t know, but I do know that, in general, the paint was extremely shiny when new and even the all red scheme looked good – for a couple of weeks – but the paint rapidly dulled and that on the radiators certainly chipped.
Over the last few days I’ve looked at dozens of pictures of MCTD PD1s and PD2s, in books and on the Net as well as using my memory. The vast majority of photos show chrome radiators unpainted, even after the second all red repaint in the mid 1960s.
Exceptions are 3000-3049, 3050-3099, 3100-3199 where many of the batches received painted radiator cowls as they had aluminium cowls which pitted and were dull.
A couple of the 3300-3329 batch had their chrome overpainted red, as previously mentioned. 3318 at one time had a black cowl which was horrible. One or two of the 3471-3520 Burlingham batch were overpainted later in life – and were then overpainted orange in SELNEC days, so the paint must have stuck OK.
The greatest number of examples of chrome overpainting on PD2s happened to vehicles in the batches numbered from 3521- 720, but even these were in the minority.

Phil Blinkhorn

Greyhound – Leyland Tiger PS2/1 – MWA 761 – 107


Copyright Ian Wild

T D Alexander (Greyhound) Sheffield and Arbroath
1950
Leyland Tiger PS2/1
Strachans C32R

Sheffield bought eight of these buses in 1950 for the B fleet. Their O.600 engines gave them an enhanced performance compared with the earlier PS1s. These were the only Strachans bodies bought by Sheffield and were the last new half cab single deckers in the fleet. Five lasted until 1961 (including this one) and the other three until 1962. Seven were bought by Greyhound, the eighth vehicle becoming the first ever mobile library in the City. By the time this photo was taken in 1966 at Greyhound’s Surbiton Street depot deep in the east end of the City at Attercliffe, MWA 761 (ex Sheffield 61) had become a tow wagon with most of the seats removed.
Why did Sheffield go to Strachans for this odd batch having previously bought Weymann and a few Cawood bodies for their post war single deck half cab purchases? Probably cost? At least some of the batch were used from Herries Road Garage on the Stocksbridge local services 257 and 357 where steep hills abounded. According to the PSV Circle, all were delivered with B34R seating but 62/3 later became C33R whilst 60/1 became C32R. Another oddity, why two different variants of ‘coach’ seating?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

27/02/12 – 07:28

It could have been cost or it could have been availability. If you wanted a few buses in a hurry in the late 1940s you didn’t go to a high-volume bodybuilder, as they were all snowed under with orders. Incidentally I’ve never heard of Cawood. Does anyone know anything about them?

Peter Williamson

28/02/12 – 08:06

I’m pretty sure Cawood were based in the West Riding, somewhere in the Wakefield area. They built ten bodies for Sheffield A and B fleets on Leyland Tiger PS1 chassis in 1948/9. They were contemporaries of similar Weymann bodies supplied on Leyland PS1 and PS2 and AEC Regal. I had forgotten until I was looking up the above that Sheffield also had three PS1 chassis bodied by Wilkes and Meade in 1948 – were they a subsidiary of Wallace Arnold?

Mr Anon

28/02/12 – 08:07

From the deepest depths of memory… Cawoods were a transport firm, possibly in sand & gravel near Doncaster. Cawoods (same??) also had the Rootes dealership in the town in the 50’s. Any connection? “Greyhound” buses around Sheffield got the prize for the most ironic name.

Joe

28/02/12 – 08:08

T W Cawoods & Sons were based at Bentley, near Doncaster. I don’t have exact dates when they were active but they did six rebuild jobs for J Bullock & Sons (1928) Ltd over the period 9/44 to 5/49.

MikeB

28/02/12 – 08:08

I commented on these rare beasts elsewhere on a Strachans conversation. Didn’t really know them (only knew Herries workings well when the 42/53 came to Low Edges) but wasn’t aware they’d ever been made into coaches. Do you KNOW Ian, or is it anecdotal? What is certainly true is what Peter said. Until 1950 Sheffield sourced bodies from Weymann, Cravens and Leyland and after that time from Weymann and Roe until about 1962. In the post war period 1945 – 1950, the preferred builders (of all operators) were unable to keep up with demand – they were often exporting to Government dictate – leading to operators going wherever they could to satisfy their requirements.
Other than in this context, I’d never heard of Cawood but I believe they were a little like Wilkes and Meade who also built post war Tigers for Sheffield. Wilkes and Meade were a Leeds firm who were bought by Wallace Arnold and, after building and rebodying many vehicles for WA, eventually became their body shop – and sunk into oblivion. Roberts provided pre war bodies for Sheffield and then some post war AECs and the last trams, Crossley provided chassis and bodies for anyone in need (!) and NCBs last gasp included about 40 bodies for Sheffield. The quality of the latter was suspect but death duties killed the company who’s physical assets (raw material and machinery) were bought from the receiver by Charles H Roe – so a slight continuum from the 1950 AEC/NCB through the 1950s and 1960s Roe bodies for Sheffield.

David Oldfield

28/02/12 – 17:05

The reason for the conversion to coach seating, at least for some of them, was probably for their use on the Lakeland Tour, on which they performed before being ousted by the Leyland Leopards. I have a photograph of several of them lined up outside the Strines Inn, which was a refreshment stop on the tour. I went on it one summer Sunday with my grandmother, on a new Fanfare bodied Leopard coach, but this machine was likely already in Greyhound’s yard painted red by then.

Dave Careless

28/02/12 – 17:26

David, my information about reseating is taken from the PSV Circle Sheffield fleet lists dated May 1959 and October 1973 both of which refer to fleet numbers 60-63 as ‘later reseated to C33R /C32R’ (as appropriate).

Mr Anon

29/02/12 – 07:08

There you are. You can teach an old dog new tricks – I stand corrected. If they were coach seated, did they ever do Manchesters?
11 or 12 years was a very creditable first life after the introduction of under floors.

David Oldfield

29/02/12 – 14:26

Sheffield Corporation Leyland Tiger MWA 763

Yes, David, they did do Manchester’s, and here’s a photo of 63 at Exchange Street about to undertake a trip on the 48; intriguingly, just across from Sheffield Victoria and the electric service through Woodhead tunnel to the same city. They were also active on the service 39 via The Snake as well.

Dave Careless

29/02/12 – 17:25

Thanks Dave – but look what’s behind, a 1952 Regent/Roe rebuild from the 1938 batch of Regent/Cravens!
Regrettably the 48 went from Pond Street and was operated by North Western by the time I used it regularly.

David Oldfield

01/03/12 – 07:48

Thanks, Dave Carless, for the evocative photo of 63. I used to travel on the 48 with my parents to visit relatives ‘over there’. I can recall the Leyland Olympics on the service when they were new (despite being A fleet buses), a comment I still recall from my mother being that we would travel on a front engined bus ‘as the new ones smelled of diesel fuel’. That was in the days of duplicates, triplicates, quadrupilcates etc etc on the 48. The Strachans bodied PS2s always seemed to me to be superior vehicles and the photo of 63 confirms that view even after all these years. A very elegant looking bus.

Ian Wild

03/03/12 – 17:14

The Strachans bodied PS2’s were also regulars on the the 44 Bakewell via Bamford. They were the height of comfort on the 2 hour trip on the 48 to Manchester – when compared to their predecessors, the Weymann bodied PS1’s. They were a very smart comfortable bus and by couldn’t they fly over Moscar Top

Jerry Wilkes

03/03/12 – 17:37

PS2’s were real flying machines. I don’t remember the Sheffield ones – it was a part of Yorkshire I rarely visited, but my local operator Hebble had six PS2/3’s with Willowbrook DP bodies (BCP 826-830) and boy, could they shift ! At the local Wakes holidays Hebble would employ all sorts of vehicles on the Halifax to Scarborough service, but a PS2 would leave everything else in a cloud of dust, and by the time the Royal Tigers, Regal IV’s and Reliances got there it would be parked up, emptied, cooled down its driver would have finished his dinner and be ready to set off back. Great buses. The Sheffield one shown looks really elegant to me. Strachans had a bad reputation though after the war – did these suffer the same reputation ?

John Stringer

03/03/12 – 17:46

As I said, I had very little contact with these buses but as someone who drives both preserved buses and modern coaches big (engines) is best – so I would expect them to be superior beasts (especially when compared with PS1s). What really puzzles me is why Sheffield had so few PS2s when they waited for PD2s (and by-passed the PD1) for mountainous Sheffield. The Peak District is hardly LESS mountainous!

David Oldfield

04/03/12 – 16:28

One of the former Hebble PS2s, BCP 829 Willowbrook B33F, found its way to Great Yarmouth Corporation, and Geooffrey Hilditch recounts a splendid tale about this bus in his book “Steel Wheels and Rubber Tyres” Vol 2. On one summer Saturday, he received an urgent request from a Midlands operator for a duplicate coach from Great Yarmouth. PS2 No. 17 was the only vehicle available, and when it arrived on the pick up point, this “old fashioned” lady became the subject of much derisory comment from the Bedford driving fraternity, who decided to give No.17 a head start so as not to embarrass the Great Yarmouth driver too much by leaving him well behind. Off went the well loaded PS2, and the Bedford contingent finally caught up with it at the mid point refreshment stop, where they learned to their chagrin that the Great Yarmouth driver had completed his trip, and was now on his way back home.

Roger Cox

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

05/03/12 – 07:54

In halfcab times, there was usually a big difference in performance between single-deckers and double deckers with identical specifications. The PS1 was generally regarded as satisfactory for most purposes, which the PD1 never was (except by expert clutch-stoppers such as Chris Youhill!). Similarly I’ve even heard it said that Crossleys worked well as single deckers!

Peter Williamson

07/03/12 – 08:29

The Sheffield Strachans PS2s Nos 56 to 63, MWA 756 to 763, were new in 1950 and I believe were the last half cab saloons supplied to Sheffield. They lasted until 1961/2 which was pretty average for the species. In fact, No.56 was converted into a mobile library for Sheffield City Libraries in 1962 and went on to serve in that capacity until January 1971 when it was sold for scrap. Sheffield’s six all-Crossley SD42 saloons lasted from 1947 to 1962 adding credence to Peter W’s comment above.

John Darwent

Wallace Arnold Tours – Leyland Tiger – LUB 260


Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Wallace Arnold Tours Leeds
1948
Leyland Tiger PS1
Duple C33F

This photo is another from my dusty collection of postcards bought many years ago, and recently extracted from the proverbial shoebox. This view of Wallace Arnold coach LUB 260 was taken by an unknown photographer sometime in the mid-1950s, and might possibly have been at their Paignton depot (confirmation would be appreciated please). Amazingly, on the back of this photo I have written its subsequent history, although where I got the information from is a mystery, On being withdrawn by WA in 1958 it went to Ward Brothers of Lepton (Huddersfield). In 1960 it was sold to Mitchell’s of Luthermuir, presumably to join their existing fleet of red and cream PS1 coaches – see this link – Its last known move was to contractors Haley of Cleckheaton (West Yorkshire) in 1962, and was presumably scrapped soon after. Quite a well-travelled coach even after its glorious WA days.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Paul Haywood

08/07/12 – 10:15

Looks like the frontage of Royston depot – but I stand to be corrected . . .

Philip Rushworth

08/07/12 – 10:15

LUB 260_cu

There’s a picture of this coach in “Holidays By Coach” an illustrated history of Wallace Arnold, by Stewart J Brown.
The caption states it was rebuilt with a full front in 1954.

In the same book is a photo of Royston depot taken in 1948 and there are detail differences in the asbestos style cladding to the building.

Eric Bawden

09/07/12 – 07:13

Yes R. T. Haley of Hillside Works Hunsworth Cleckheaton. I remember them having this coach painted bright yellow and as stated fitted with a full front. I don’t think the company is still in business.

Philip Carlton

10/07/12 – 06:55

Anybody have a photo of LUB 260 after rebuilding to full front?

Eric Bawden

10/07/12 – 13:46

The full front coach would surely never have looked as good as the original did. What a great photograph…I really enjoy looking at these old buses and coaches…and wishing I had a time machine!!

Norman Long

11/07/12 – 08:16

Too true Norman – these full front conversions of the early 1950s always looked “unhappy”, and the process turned the interiors of the driving cabs into a nightmare of noise and condensation – and as with all these “consultant led” schemes fooled nobody – the public aren’t dense, but sadly even today operators seem to think that they are – age disguised re-registrations etc – bah humbug !!
Samuel Ledgard had a batch of truly beautiful looking PS1/Duple half cabs in 1948 – classic is the word – and had them “full fronted” – ever after they looked simply awful and caused we devotees much displeasure.

Chris Youhill

11/07/12 – 12:35

Yet again, I find myself agreeing with Ebenezer Youhill. With the possible exception of the “Regent V” version, I always preferred exposed radiators as well.

David Oldfield

12/07/12 – 07:55

I’m always glad of the support of our wise colleague David Cratchett Oldfield in these matters – I might just consider relenting my nature and let him have Christmas Day off with pay this year !!

Chris Youhill

12/07/12 – 11:21

…..with a whole goose, not just a pigeon!

David Oldfield

15/07/12 – 17:10

LUB 260 rebuilt with full front by Wilkes and Meade to Plaxton design in 1/54.

Dave Williamson

20/03/15 – 09:24

Thank you for all these wonderful comments. Immensely useful to me as I write about my childhood memories of going to Blackpool Illuminations in the 1950s. I just wish there was a shot of the inside of the coach as I can’t remember where you stored your mackintosh and bag, did they have overhead racks or nets? Anyway, lovely stuff and great memories, thanks.

Lynda Radley Finn

Wallace Arnold Tours – Leyland Tiger – LNW 262


Photograph by “unknown” – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Wallace Arnold Tours Ltd
1947/1950
Leyland Tiger PS1
Burlingham FC33F

This photograph is yet another from my dusty collection, taken by an unknown photographer. It shows Wallace Arnold LNW 262, one of a large batch of Leyland PS1s purchase in the immediate post-war years to get a head start on the newly-emerging leisure and coaching market. It was bought in 1947 with a Burlingham C33F half-cab body. In 1950, following the trend towards “modernisation”, it reappeared as an FC33F.
At the time, WA were constantly swapping bodies and rebodying chassis to create an up-to-date image at the lowest cost, so I’m not sure if this was a completely new body or simply a rebuilt front end. If it was a new body, what happened to its 3-year old original body?
It was withdrawn in 1957 and saw further service with Wilsons of Hunwick, Prospect of Ferryhill, McClean of Govan and finally to Austins of Stafford in 1963 where it seems to have joined its sister LNW 263.
The only sure thing about this photo is the location – the WA depot and workshops, Chadwick Street, Leeds.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Paul Haywood

30/09/12 – 10:44

I’m sorry, but I’ve always preferred the half-cab version of this body. It just looks better. This “grinning” style looks to have been taken as the inspiration for those ‘smiley’ characters which appear on the forum sections of some websites. Was this style of front end some form of inspiration for that variant of the Seagull which appeared on Bedford SB coaches?

Pete Davies

30/09/12 – 12:19

If that’s a conversion it’s been done very neatly!
Interesting to note the sign in the background, as Wilks and Meade were coachbuilders themselves!

David Beilby

30/09/12 – 12:20

I cant argue with that, Pete. Just one point, some of Northern’s Beadle re-bodies didn’t have a bulkhead behind the driver, but its hard to tell if this one does or not, it may only be a half one, in which case the object of the exercise may have been to leave the passengers feeling less cut off from the driver, that said, I still don’t like it.

Ronnie Hoye

30/09/12 – 12:21

My opinion of these sacrilegious “facelifts” intended to deceive the customers in some way is unprintable on a refined Forum like this one. Samuel Ledgard bought a batch of eight most handsome PS1 Tigers with Duple “porch entrance” bodies in 1948. During the madness years of the 1950s these beautiful coaches were subjected to this indignity by the Samlesbury Engineering Company – the first to be treated, LUB 675, was the worst – with small rectangular windscreens with level lower edges – absolutely awful.
Also, in the marketing “spin” frenzy, operators appeared completely oblivious to the maintenance difficulties and to the misting of windscreens which came with these “improvements.”

Chris Youhill

02/10/12 – 15:28

Wilkes and Meade were a Leeds firm who were bought by Wallace Arnold. They were then set to work on the convoluted post war bodying, re-bodying and partial re-bodying programme (putting full fronts on half cabs). They built many new coaches in the late forties – some for outside customers, and also some buses for Sheffield Corporation. They were finally integrated into Wallace Arnold’s maintenance division and the name disappeared into obscurity.

David Oldfield

02/10/12 – 15:30

David B, Wilkes and Meade were actually part of the Wallace Arnold empire so may have had a hand in the rebuilding. It was bought to provide body building/repair facilities for the coach fleet

Chris Hough

02/10/12 – 15:32

This looks like a completely new body to me. The trim above and below the windows, and around the wheel arches, belong to the same style of body as the front end, not to the half-cab style. If it is a conversion then it’s a wholesale update, not just a front-end job. Incidentally the trim above and below the windows was carried forward to the Seagull.

Peter Williamson

02/10/12 – 15:34

Notwithstanding the impracticalities of full-fronted designs that Chris mentions, but just accepting that it was just the ‘done thing’ at the time, I rather liked the Burlingham ‘SunSaloon’. The grille was a touch flashy and garish I know – so were very many other coach builders’ features in the early fifties – but I always thought that these were very neatly shaped at the front, just as their half cabs had been. Whilst most of us are traditionalists and would much more prefer halfcabs, I think one can understand why coachbuilders turned to full-fronts and full-front rebuilds in the circumstances of the time – it’s just that so many made a dog’s breakfast of the job.

John Stringer

02/10/12 – 15:35

This was a new body, a Burlingham Sun Saloon built in 1950. The original body was transferred to a prewar Leyland or AEC as part of the modernisation programme. Wilks & Meade supplied WA with a total of 40 bodies on new and recon chassis in the period 1946-1950, as well as carrying out a good deal of refurbishment and rebuilding work for the operator. A small number of bodied were also built by Wilks & Meade for other concerns. Quite why this coach was at Wilks & Meade’s premises is not clear, one supposes it had been receiving some attention to its body.

Philip Lamb

03/10/12 – 06:16

Excellent observations, gentlemen, thank you.
Philip, the Wilks & Meade sign was attached to the side of WA’s workshop/office/canteen building and the Wilks & Meade workshop was further up Chadwick Street. WA’s large depot had entrances from Chadwick Street and the parallel Sayner Road, so this coach was probably parked awaiting duty or mechanical attention.
When WA moved to Donisthorpe Street as a (long-term) temporary measure, prior to the completion of their Tour Terminal, depot and workshops in Gelderd Road, this whole site was taken over by Wallace Arnold Sales & Service, a Vauxhall main dealership – and is now owned by Evans Halshaw. You can still see the footprint of the old depot on Google.
In my time with WA (mid 60s) there was only one chap still employed from the Wilks & Meades days, a very fine man called Jack Lye, who was obviously much used for body repairs etc. I can still see him walking up the street carrying long lengths of beading to be cut, drilled and applied to some accident damaged coach.

Paul Haywood

03/10/12 – 10:38

LUA 747_lr

Austin of Woodseaves collected quite a large fleet of Tigers which had started life with Wallace Arnold. If you think the Burlingham Sunsaloon body was an abomination, perhaps you should compare it with this one. LUA 747 started life with a Duple “A type” half-cab body, but was modified with a full-front by their in house bodybuilder Wilks and Meade as shown here. Wilks and Meade produced quite a few similar conversions, all of them using the distinctive tin-front and unmistakable “propeller in an oval” design more usually associated with Plaxtons. Odd that Plaxton should allow this – does anybody know why? (copyright unknown)

Neville Mercer

03/10/12 – 17:50

Looks to me as if a complete Plaxton Consort front up to and including the cab window, not just the grille, has been skilfully grafted on. Presumably this was supplied by Plaxton. Makes for an interesting combination!

Philip Lamb

04/10/12 – 07:29

Thurgood also produced some bodies (usually on Bedford SB chassis) in the late 1950s/early 1960s which used an almost identical “Plaxton Venturer” front. I also seem to recall that Dodd of Troon (AA Motor Services) had a Foden PVSC6 with a very similar full front rebuild, although this may have originally been bodied, as a half-cab, by Burlingham. My copy of the Foden chassis list is out on loan at the moment, so I can’t check this. Are there no old-time Plaxton employees on this website who might clarify the reason for all these Venturer lookalikes?

Neville Mercer

04/10/12 – 07:30

Is the result of the grafting known as a “Duplax”?

Phil Blinkhorn

06/10/12 – 07:24

The fitting of the new front end end was done in 1954. From 1952 WA began ordering coach bodies from Plaxton, Plaxton would have been keen to retain their business. Although the work is described as Wilks and Meade to Plaxton design, most, if not all the components must have been supplied by Plaxton. Wilkes and Meade had previously done similar conversions to Yeates design at the same time as Yeates had converted some of WA’s coaches themselves-was this an exercise in keeping Wilks and Meades workshop occupied between car related jobs?

David Hick

11/10/12 – 16:04

As mentioned, Wallace Arnold’s rebodying and rebuilding programme in the late 40s/early 50s was complex, and is documented in PSV Circle publications. In fact the featured coach, LNW 262, was one of four in a chain of body changes.
(1) LNW 262, as has been mentioned, was a 1947 Leyland PS1 with Burlingham half cab C33F body, which it carried till winter 1952/3.
(2) HUA 904, a 1939 Leyland TS8 then received the half cab Burlingham body from LNW 262.
(3) APT 464, formerley Wilkinson’s of Sedgefield, was fitted with the 1939 Duple C32F from HUA 904 by Comberhill Motors (dealer).
(4) NUA 753 was a 1950 Leyland PS2/3/Burlingham FC33F whose body was then transferred to LNW 262 to produce the coach depicted. Its chassis then went to Plaxtons for a new Venturer FC35F8 body.

David Williamson

12/10/12 – 08:12

David, many thanks for the comprehensive body juggling information. As mentioned in other threads and discussions, WA were very money conscious and never failed to spot a bargain when one arose, and they must have calculated that these complex activities were worthwhile. The strange thing is, I doubt if Mr & Mrs Tourist would have been too bothered about touring in a half-cab or a full-front as long as the seats were comfy and the price was right.

Paul Haywood

13/10/12 – 06:33

Interesting point, Paul. It is well known that as soon as underfloor engined coaches made their appearance, halfcabs were considered dead in the water. Despite the regulated environment there was still real competition in the coaching world, and operators could not bear to see a rival operator with more up-to-date stock than they had. And yet, as you say, this may actually have had very little to do with their customers. My family only used coaches for excursions, but I’m quite sure my parents never noticed which of the Albions used by our local operator had full fronts and which were halfcabs. I did of course, but then at the age of 8 I was already a bus freak!

Peter Williamson

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

16/12/12 – 07:37

Regarding Jack Lye from Wilks and Meads (03/10/12 above), there was a George Lye who used to work occasionally in the WA Gelderd Road bodyshop when he was well into his eighties. He loved the job, and was ex Wilks and Meads – could they be the same man? I was at WA 1978 to the end in 2005.

Jon Hartley

16/12/12 – 08:38

Jon – George it was! Thanks for that memory jog. Pleased to learn that he was still involved with WA so late on. Every time I pass the Gelderd Road “wasteland” I can’t believe how such a comparatively modern hive of activity could have disappeared so quickly. As you were there to the “bitter end”, you must share those sentiments. How are the mighty fallen!

Paul Haywood

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Tiger PS1 – KWJ 103 – 103

Sheffield Corporation - Leyland Tiger - KWJ 103 - 103

Sheffield Corporation
1949
Leyland Tiger PS1 
Cawood B34F

When the Sheffield Strachan-bodied Leyland Tigers were discussed in a previous posting there was mention of a couple of batches bearing Cawood bodies. 103 was one of five for the Joint Committee (B fleet) another five were delivered to the Corporation (A fleet). I think this is parked outside Leadmill garage, waiting its turn for the washer and refuelling as was the norm at Leadmill. If my memory serves me well, the 29 at that time was for Ringinglow, which was a Leadmill route. Behind is TD5/Cravens H55R of 1937 which by the time of the pic was an instruction vehicle. This picture appears in Sheffield Transport by Chas.C. Hall, though I bought mine from RHG Simpson.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

27/12/12 – 17:05

No. 27 was the Ringinglow route Les. No.29 was a City (Fitzalan Square) to Blackburn (Shardlow’s Works) and was jointly operated with Rotherham CT Dept.

John Darwent

27/12/12 – 17:23

Another example of a ‘B’ fleet bus on a Corporation ‘A’ route.
Would Leadmill garage have that many ‘B’ routes other than Chesterfield via Dronfield and Holmesfield?

Andrew Beever

28/12/12 – 06:40

I believe that the 29 to Blackburn (not the one in Lancashire!) required single deck buses because of a low railway bridge just off Ecclesfield Road. Rotherham used to use centre entrance Bristol single decks for their contribution to the service.

Ian Wild

28/12/12 – 06:41

These PS1’s were allocated to Townhead Street, and I’m pretty sure that’s where this picture is actually taken, on the parking area at the side of the garage where a lot of Townhead’s single-deck allocation were frequently parked, along with several of the training buses. The workers 29 service was, I believe, originally a Townhead duty that eventually ended up being the responsibility of East Bank.

Dave Careless

28/12/12 – 06:44

I rather think the location is Tenter st where single deckers were parked alongside the garage wall as was the norm.

David Grant

28/12/12 – 11:01

Thanks for the info everyone. Leadmill had several B routes Andrew. My home route was the 83 to Birley. Holmesfield (86??) was another, 57 Bradway another. Happy New Year to you all.

Les Dickinson

29/12/12 – 07:00

Interesting that 29 was an “A” route, although it ran outside the city boundary, likewise 69 to Rotherham. I think this was because these ran direct from the city into Rotherham Corporation’s area and did not enter the “B” area.

Geoff Kerr

30/12/12 – 07:21

Les, I’m sure it was a typo, but the 59 was the Bradway route.
Putting B fleet buses on A fleet routes was not unusual as they were jointly owned and could be deployed as required – if not required on B duties. Indeed, at times of heavy transport usage, A fleet buses would be used on B and, sometimes, C fleet routes – especially Easter and Whit Bank Holidays.
B and C fleets were for Railway (rural) routes outside the city area. 29 and 69 were joint agreements with a neighbouring (operating) authority rather than a route taken over with the railway agreement.

David Oldfield

30/12/12 – 07:21

Nobody seems to have asked the vital question.Who were Cawood and where did they come from? Did they build other bodies?

Philip Carlton

30/12/12 – 08:36

David, As a boy I could remember every single route. However there have been many changes since, and I’ve moved around the country a lot. Somewhere along the way I lost my fifties and sixties timetables so depend a lot on memory. (Now what was I saying?) Oh yes, what you say is absolutely correct. I’ve been at Bakewell on a Bank Holiday weekend and seen buses from all three fleets arriving there. My home route, 83 Birley, was a B route but now and again would have one of the 700 series Regents on there. At that time the 95 to Intake was covered by the 700/800 Regents with an odd appearance of a 1200 series Regent. Prior to moving away with my job in 1967 I never ever saw a Leyland on the 95 though I have seen pictures of this since then. 95 was also a Leadmill route. Phillip, there is some explanation of Cawood in another article (about Sheffield’s Strachan bodies I think).

Les Dickinson

30/12/12 – 08:36

Good point, Philip…..

David Oldfield

30/12/12 – 08:49

Dave Careless and David Grant comment on Townhead Street and Tenter Street garages. These were one over the other and in Sheffield’s tram days Tenter Street housed trams. “Sheffield Transport” by Chas Hall shows a line up of the superb Roberts trams on the last day of tram operation by the city.

Les Dickinson

31/12/12 – 17:19

If I remember correctly from my student days in the 60s, all five Sheffield depots in operation then had a mix of A and B routes, but the C routes were concentrated at East Bank and Townhead Street.
Bramall Lane depot was before my time in Sheffield so I don’t know the position there.
Naturally this wasn’t part of my university course and I had to work it out for myself!

Geoff Kerr

01/01/13 – 07:09

There was nothing quite as fascinating as a bus garage when you were a schoolboy bus enthusiast. Being a Rotherham lad, I spent many hours peering through the railings outside the Corporation depot at Rawmarsh Road, but stumbling across one in Sheffield that had trams in the basement and buses on top was truly mind boggling. I’d never scribbled numbers down quite that fast before!
All the Sheffield garages were something special back in those days; Leadmill Road, with the castle-like turrets at each each side of what had been the main doorway when it was Shoreham Street tram depot, was a fascinating building, and the then modern garages at Herries Road and Greenland Road, although perhaps not as architecturally pleasing, were truly a sight to behold late at night, with lights blazing and the forecourts stuffed full of AEC’s and Leyland’s in that remarkable Sheffield livery. Talk about nirvana.
All these years later, in Canada, I have a purpose-built glass-fronted display cabinet in the lounge, full of EFE’s and the like on several shelves. Granted it’s only a display cabinet, but after dark, when I plug in the subdued fluorescent lighting in it, it immediately ceases to be a model cabinet and magically becomes Herries Road garage in 1964!!

Dave Careless

01/01/13 – 07:10

Les. Like you, I am baffled – having only memories of AECs on the 95. [Presumably we have both seen the same picture of a PD2/Weymann.] My maternal grandmother lived on Woodhouse Road and the 95 was in weekly use!
I think Bramhall Lane had Chesterfields before Leadmill – they certainly had the 13** Regent Vs that ran them.
I “left” in 1971, but still have brothers, aunts and uncles whom I visit – as I did last week. I was day-dreaming of Regent IIIs and Chesterfield PD2s passing by my hotel on Chesterfield Road (in the grounds of what was once Jordanthorpe School). Well I am getting old and nostalgic…..

David Oldfield

01/01/13 – 11:18

Does anyone know when Lincs Road Car started their joint service 85 with SJOC between Sheffield and Gainsborough by any chance ? Was it late 60`s ?
Visiting Sheffield to see relatives in the early sixties , I was amazed with the variety in the bus station . Blue Crossley training buses, new Atlanteans ( wow ! ) lots of different types of AECs – nice livery and red wheels . Dead classy I thought !

Steve Milner

01/01/13 – 13:31

The transfer of certain ex Sheffield ‘C’ routes including the 85 was made on 1st January 1970, exactly 43 years ago!

Andrew Beever

01/01/13 – 13:38

Is this an urban myth? I was once told that when the Tories were in power on the City Council the wheels were painted blue and when Labour was in power the wheels were painted red!!!

Philip Carlton

01/01/13 – 16:34

I’ve read this but apparently blue wheels first appeared on the 1966 delivery of Atlanteans when Labour controlled the City Council. The change back to red occurred because no doubt someone decided they looked better.
Service 85 became jointly operated by Sheffield Transport, Lincolnshire Road Car and East Midland as part of the disposal of the JOC C fleet, most of which went to the NBC, as you say, 43 years ago.

Geoff Kerr

01/01/13 – 16:35

Philip no urban myth, I don’t think there was enough time to paint all of them blue.
I must confess I liked the red ones better
Better still one of the local golf courses managed to renegotiate it’s lease with the council at that time.

Andrew Beever

01/01/13 – 17:30

Cheers for the info re the 85 . I have seen a few photos of LHs and REs on the route – no MWs though .

Steve Milner

02/01/13 – 07:28

Some years ago, when the Big Ben’s clock face was being renovated, they found that the black numbers were originally blue. There was some discussion about returning them to blue in the interest of historical accuracy, but Labour objected because it would favour the Tories, so black remained. Childish? Yes! True? Oh, Yes!

Chris Hebbron

02/01/13 – 07:29

Although the agreement relating to the sharing-out of “C” services between Sheffield Corporation and NBC came into effect on 01.01.1970 joint operation of the Gainsborough service didn’t start until the 18th – in the interim period four former “C” fleet Leopards were loaned to the Corporation to maintain the service. Thereafter, Sheffield provided one full-day and two part day duties from Greenland Road (generally using AEC Swifts which had been downseated to provide extra luggage capacity), East Midland provided two all-day duties from Worksop depot (generally using Leopards or REs), whilst Lincolnshire provided one all-day duty from its Retford depot (initially using a newly-allocated LH, but replaced the same year by an RE). Lincolnshire closed its Retford depot on 01.05.72, when most duties on the 85 transferred to Gainsborough depot, though a couple of buses were out stationed at East Midlands Retford depot.
Sheffield continued to outstation one bus at Retford, formerly used on the 85 pre-1970, until the end of April 1972: in recognition of their long service the Retford crew that used to work the 85 were given a duty at East Bank garage which allowed them to run light from Retford to South Anston each morning to pick up service on one of the Dinnington routes to run into Sheffield, work other routes as required, change buses, run back out to South Anston in service, and then light back to Retford – this arrangement ended when the conductor retired, after which the driver travelled to and from Sheffield as a passenger on the 85 to work as a spare driver, until he too retired the following year.

Philip Rushworth

02/01/13 – 09:04

Les, I have found my box of time tables and I have a Sheffield 11/63 to 05/64 #182 if you want to know anything just ask.

Peter

02/01/13 – 14:26

The timetable shows that through passengers on 85 had to change buses at Retford as double-deckers could not work to Gainsborough. In 1969 single-deckers began to run throughout and the 85 was operationally linked to a short A route to Parkway Markets (121).
This practice continued after the 85 had become joint, resulting in the odd sight of an East Midland bus working a Sheffield City service “on hire” – but the Lincolnshire bus did not apparently take part.

Geoff Kerr

05/01/13 – 05:44

Thanks Philip and Geoff for the extra info – great !

Steve Milner

08/01/13 – 07:41

Peter, thanks for the note on timetables – I’ll keep that in mind for my next “starter for 10”. A fascinating garage was Eastbank as it had an extensive roof-top parking area which was often used by withdrawn vehicles, each with the Sheffields lettering / insignia and fleet numbers blacked our prior to sale or disposal.

Les Dickinson

18/01/13 – 16:55

I can recall the rather unusual Cawood bodied Leyland PS1’s running out of Pond Street in the early 50’s on the 21 route to Swallownest via Catcliffe and Treeton. I seem to remember they were used on short workings to Treeton on occasion.

Jerry Wilkes

24/03/13 – 08:03

The very first vehicle to receive blue wheel hubs was No340, Atlantean/Park Royal the Earls Court show vehicle of 1964. The Daimler Fleetline/Park Royals which were delivered that same year had the normal red hubs as did the Neepsend bodied Atlanteans of 1964/5. However, all vehicles delivered during 1966 Atlantean/Park Royal, Atlantean/Neepsend and the Craven bodied Bedford had blue wheel hubs and this was the year in which the Tory party was in charge. Incidentally, No340 was the first in the fleet with blue moquette seats on both decks, the Fleetlines being red/beige on lower deck and red leather upstairs.

Trev Weckert

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

15/02/14 – 06:03

On the subject of Cawoods, it is worth noting that just after WW2 the Thames Valley company was so desperate to rebuild many of its war-worn fleet that a number of them were sent all the way up to Cawoods, including Harrington-bodied Leyland Tiger TS8 coaches and some of the Tiger TS3 and TS4’s re-purchased after being with the military. Full details are in my History of the Thames Valley Traction. Co. Ltd. 1931-1945 and 1946-1960 volumes.

Paul Lacey

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Tiger – MWA 757 – 57


Copyright R H G Simpson

Sheffield Corporation
1950
Leyland Tiger PS2/1
Strachans B34R

Despite the low fleet number, 57, this was a B fleet vehicle. The computer hadn’t taken over yet. This was one of a batch of eight delivered in 1950. Seen here in Pond Street Bus Station before the concrete and glass version. It could be cold and breezy then but us northerners are made of stern stuff. Ready for service 6 to Kiveton Park in this view but I remember boarding one of these to Eyam on one occasion in the dim and distant past. Photo bought from R H G Simpson many moons ago.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

10/02/13 – 08:06

Sheffield bought hoards of PS1 Tigers from 1947 but only eleven PS2s. These were a last (half-cab) gasp, the three Weymann examples had been delivered earlier. Apart from the PS1s, there were Weymann/Regals and apart from Weymann PS1s there were five Wilkes and Meade and ten Cawood, already seen on these pages.

David Oldfield

11/02/13 – 07:10

These used to my favourite Sheffield half cab single deckers. I always thought they looked really elegant-but that was from the frontal aspect. This photo shows them to have deep side skirt panels with correspondingly shallow saloon windows. A childhood impression shattered in one photo!!! The 6 to Kiveton Park would be converted to double deck operation in the mid 50s with the arrival of the lowbridge Weymann bodied AECs.

Ian Wild

11/02/13 – 10:19

Yes Ian, but with the 0.600 they would shift…..

David Oldfield

11/02/13 – 10:21

Nice view, Les, but you seem to have caused distress to at least one reader. Go and sit in a darkened room for a week, Ian. You might feel better! I had similar thoughts years ago about a particular steam locomotive. After first seeing it, I spent many years under the impression it was an A4, but it wasn’t . . .

Pete Davies

12/02/13 – 07:03

Yes David, superb performers on the 48 to Manchester

Ian Wild

12/02/13 – 07:04

Going “off piste” mention of A4, I was surprised when I saw a photo of the controls lay out of the recently built “Tornado”, that the controls were exactly the same as the 2-6-2 LNER, Doncaster built tank engine No. 498 which usually pulled our school train to Hamilton (which we sometimes rode illegally on the footplate)

Jim Hepburn

12/02/13 – 10:42

Oh the joys of living pre Health & Safety, Jim.

David Oldfield

12/02/13 – 14:49

On the theme of pre Health & Safety, my friend John Whitaker and I had the free run of climbing into the drivers’ cab of any of the buses at the Bradford Corporation Ludlam Street bus depot on a Sunday morning when it was quiet and there were no bosses around. We were given this freedom by a good neighbour who was a mechanic there, but with the strict instruction not to press the starter button of any of the buses which we pretended to drive. We were still about 11/12 years of age at this time, but what wonderful freedom and trust given by our parents and our neighbour Tony.

Richard Fieldhouse

12/02/13 – 14:50

Ah but never forget, even pre-Health and Safety, it was officially “strengst verboten”! OK Pete, you can’t keep us in suspense any longer. What was the quasi-A4 really and where did you see it? One of the streamlined “East Anglian” B17s or the seemingly jinxed W1 rebuild?

Stephen Ford

12/02/13 – 17:01

An A3, actually, Stephen! 60095 FLAMINGO, at Carlisle in about 1960 or 61. I am supposing it had come off the Waverley route. Looking at views of the two types now, I can understand where I went wrong! It was because of the shape of the firebox. Ah, well!

Pete Davies

Scarlet Pimpernel Motors – Leyland Tiger – JYC 855

Scarlet Pimpernel Motors - Leyland Tiger - JYC 855

Scarlet Pimpernel Motors
1947
Leyland Tiger PS1
Harrington C33F

JYC 855 is a Leyland PS1 with a Harrington Fin C33F body dating from 1947 and registered in March 1948 to Scarlet Pimpernel Motors of Minehead in Somerset, and is now part of the Roger Burdett collection.
It was new to Porlock Weir Motor Services (trading as Blue Motors) in March 1948 with a glorious Harrington “fin” body (the fin is not visible in this picture but you can see it at this Old Bus Photos link). Blue Motors and Scarlet Pimpernel joined to form a new company – “Scarlet and Blue” – in April 1954, into which both fleets were incorporated and progressively repainted into a new red and blue livery, although JYC 855 was an exception and remained in blue. In 1960 the coach moved on to Mulleys Motorways wearing ‘Corona Coaches’ titles for their London-Stowmarket express route.
In the 1970s it moved on to Ebdons of Sidcup (although was probably not actually operated by them) and eventually Toppings Coaches of Liverpool in 1992 (who definitely didn’t operate it). At this point it entered a life of preservation with Essex-based John Brenson in 1995. While there, it was repainted into the Scarlet and Blue two-colour livery and given “Scarlet Pimpernel” titles. It has for about 10 years been the proud possession of Roger Burdett in Coventry. It even has semaphore trafficators! It also happens to be one of my favourite vehicles
Text by Ken Jones & Nick Webster [via Dick Gilbert]
Picture by Ken Jones – taken at Winchester Bus Station 1/1/13 – in “reflective mode”

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones

02/05/13 – 18:29

We were obviously both at Winchester this New Year – and I had a ride on this impressive vehicle, impressively driven. I am a PD2/PS2 man but, like Granville Smith’s PS1/Plaxton, I couldn’t fault the Scarlet Pimpernel. As they say, when he’s due to appear on a running day – “They seek him here, they seek him there…..”

David Oldfield

03/05/13 – 07:48

Ken, that’s a great bit of photography using the shadows light and reflection almost to perfection. What a pity the slight wind rippled the puddle. I suppose you’ll now tell everyone it was a point and shoot effort. Even if it was it’s a great photo of an historic vehicle.

Phil Blinkhorn

03/05/13 – 07:51

You’ve caught that reflection very well, Ken! Thanks for posting.

Pete Davies

03/05/13 – 07:51

Excellent another perfect capture.

Alan Coulson

03/05/13 – 08:49

It wasn’t quite point and shoot – but it was hand held – no tripod and other fancy gimmicks, plus the coach was moving. Sorry about the ripples at least it was real water. On the positive side the people with the reflective jackets are not in the reflection -pure luck

Ken Jones

11/01/14 – 07:49

SP Poster

I was looking the Scarlet Pimpernel image above and realised I had purchased an original leaflet/handbill? from a transport memorabilia shop on the Wirral.
I hope it maybe of interest.

Harry Cameron

Barton Transport – Leyland Tiger – WAL 782 – 782

Barton Transport - Leyland Tiger - WAL 782 - 782

Barton Transport
1957
Leyland Tiger PS1/B
Willowbrook L61RD

This evocative shot was taken at the 2011 Heart of the Pennines event, and shows the splendid Willowbrook-bodied Tiger rebuild of 1957 arriving at The Piece Hall in Halifax. Not only did it look great, it sounded great too. Barton’s wonderful fleet had many of these rebuilds.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

31/05/13 – 06:40

And luckily Les, we have the sound of one of them right here on this site. Time for another listen on the ‘Old Bus Sounds’ page!

Chris Barker

31/05/13 – 07:00

Yes, the Barton rebuilds, the Willowbrook batch were modern-looking with clean lines, but then, see how the rear wheels were set well in, betraying their 7`6 heritage. Looking around inside, they were obviously an economy product – very basic lightweight construction and lots of brown paint, but surely that was their specification and in that respect they delivered. I first encountered this one parked outside Loughborough Central station years ago, and was amazed to realise it had survived, a Barton rebuild!!
Never thought I would see one again.

WAL 782_2

Later, I encountered it again, and I attach one of my pics, here at the LVVS open day in November 2010, where it was a regular performer on trips into Lincoln City Centre but here parked among representatives of many past decades. Needless to say, I contrived to be aboard for some of these journeys, and the sound effects revived old memories. On the straight sections, it managed to trigger off the 30mph warning signs.

Rob Hancock

31/05/13 – 17:58

Was the need for the extra short top deck bay structural as it spoils an otherwise well balanced design?

Phil Blinkhorn

31/05/13 – 17:59

I recall about 1964 one of these was hired for an evening educational visit from Long Eaton Grammar School to Breedon on the Hill, out beyond Castle Donington on the old A453. It was a novel experience, as the arched 13ft 9in headroom railway bridge at Sawley Junction (now Long Eaton) station precluded the use of double deckers on the service buses (3, 3C, 10 and 11) that went in that direction. [Most of you will know that the experimental lowbridge layout Dennis Loline 861HAL was a bid to overcome this obstacle, but as even 861 had to take the centre of the road to clear the bridge, its use in service was not permitted – otherwise, who knows, there might have been a fleet of them.] Anyway, back to the Tiger rebuild, our trip left Long Eaton by Derby Road to Breaston, where it turned sharp left over the Old Sawley level crossing, to reach the A453 after a detour of 2 or 3 miles.

Stephen Ford

01/06/13 – 06:23

Phil, I tend to agree with you about the extra short bay spoiling the balance of the design. These vehicles were built to PS1 length and no doubt Willowbrook used their standard length window bays and needed to stick in an extra bit to make up the greater length. The following batch however were bodied by Northern Counties to a nice four bay design and looked much neater. I liked them both though and I had some memorable journeys on them in the early 1970’s on the X42 Derby – Nottingham express via the A52 by-pass!

Chris Barker

24/08/13 – 06:17

WAL 782_2

I was looking through Eddie Collings collection of photos for something and came across the above shot. It is WAL 782 not in Barton livery, it is in preservation and looking at other shots it is at a rally, more than likely down south with the Hastings trolleybus behind it. Was it in service with another operator between Barton and preservation this may explain the different livery.

Peter

29/04/14 – 08:20

These PD1s were always second rate vehicles, still at school l travelled on one on its maiden voyage, school run, later l worked for Barton Transport Ltd and sad to say 6 weeks redundancy under Trent, urrgh, l was in the engine shop, l was for a long time oil engineer (oil changes) l got top money for an unskilled job, but l could do breakdowns recovery the best later on nights running repairs emergency PSV driving, recovery and breakdowns, local and distance, l done the very last run to Skegness with a decker 823, a PD2, l hate the day Trent took us over the family and staff did not want it, have many things to remember it by and my full uniform still fits,

Bill Redfern

29/04/14 – 16:45

A (very) belated reply to Peter’s query on intermediate owners of WAL 782.
According to the PSVC fleet history, 782 was sold to Ensign in 1974; then to Williams, Llangollen, Hollis Queensferry and Cross Roads Travel, Warrington in fairly quick time, before passing to preservationists in Kent in 1978, moving within preservation by 1996 in the Medway area. In recent years it was owned by Quantock MS; I believe it is currently owned by the Barton family, as part of their collection.

Bob Gell

30/04/14 – 07:22

It looks as if it could have been in poppy red and white. Heaven forbid!

Chris Barker

25/05/14 – 14:41

WAL 782

I’ve been going through the “Past Comments” and found this entry which I seem to have missed previously. I note comments about her history. Above is a view of her with Durrant, Sidcup, whilst in the Southsea Spectacular on 8 June 1980. Relax, folks, not poppy red as Chris feared! I believe she was actually new to Bolton Corporation, before her time with Barton.

Pete Davies

25/05/14 – 17:41

The only information I have managed to unearth on the net says that the chassis of WAL 782 was new in 1948 to Knowles & Son of Bolton, registered CWH 262, carrying a Santus C33F coach body. One of the sources is the Classic Bus Website, which is reasonably trustworthy.
The chassis is given as PS1/1 – does PS1/B (top of this page) indicate a Barton rebuild? If so, whose designation is it? I haven’t come across any suggestion that Barton used the vehicle in its coach form, but someone with a Barton fleet history should be able to say one way or the other.

David Call

30/05/14 – 13:04

The Circle fleet history of Barton confirms David’s information above – new in 1/48 as CWH 262 to Knowles of Bolton, with a Santus C33F body; to Enterprise Motors (Blackpool) Ltd in 5/53; then to Goulding and Smyth, Hooton, Cheshire and to Millburn Motors, Preston (dealer), who sold it to Barton. I doubt if it ran for Barton as acquired – more likely it was simply a source of a chassis for rebodying.
According to Alan Oxley’s book on Barton, relaxation of the double deck length to 30 feet allowed PS1 chassis from 27’6” to be rebuilt as double deckers and comply with regulations. He also states 782 and others, were standard Leyland PS1 products, which Barton coded for their own reference as PS1/B. The Circle fleet history records the chassis number as the original Leyland number with a B prefix.

Bob Gell

30/05/14 – 14:43

What do we know about Santus? I’ve never heard of them.

Chris Hebbron

30/05/14 – 15:05

Santus was a coach builder based in Wigan, along with Northern Counties and Massey. At one time there was a preserved Wigan Corporation Leyland Tiger (TS4?) with a Santus body. There was an article in Classic Bus magazine a few years ago about the firm. Apparently there is no connection between the Santus body builder and another firm of the same name also in Wigan which made toffees! Unfortunately I cannot now recall the fate of the Santus body-building company, only that they built saloons and coaches in pre-war days, and possibly early post-war. Can’t access the magazine article at present – Sorry.

Michael Hampton

30/05/14 – 18:13

There is a bit more about Santus on this site- a Bedford OB, it is thought (!) on the Isles of Scilly.

Joe

30/05/14 – 18:14

So, once again, my sources of information are found wanting (NOT Bolton CT!)

 
The Santus-bodied Tiger is indeed a TS4, and I attach a view of her at the WETC open day on 7 October 2012

Pete Davies

30/05/14 – 18:17

Chris, our very well informed fellow contributor to this site, Neville Mercer, has given some information about Santus under the OBP entry for Vics Tours (Isles of Scilly) – Bedford OB.

Roger Cox

31/05/14 – 08:06

Well, once again my knowledge of something somewhat obscure has been satisfied by some knowledgeable folk. Thank you all. Remarkable that Wigan had at least three bus bodybuilders. Did Wigan Corporation show local loyalty by buying examples from all three companies?

Chris Hebbron

01/06/14 – 09:33

Yes Chris, Wigan did support all three Wigan coach builders in pre-war days. I’ve checked my Leyland Society book on the Leylands of Wigan Corporation. This shows Leyland TD1’s purchased and bodied by Leyland itself, plus the three Wigan builders in 1931. Santus also figures as the builder of single-deckers on TS4 and TS7 chassis, like the one shown earlier, now preserved. I think it owes it’s survival to being used as a library for several years. However after 1936, the Corporation used only NCME and Massey, and Leyland itself for its contracts. One batch was bodied by English Electric in 1939. Post-war, the body builder spread continued to be Leyland, NCME and Massey, but not Santus. The book I referred to doesn’t mention any reason for the Corporation excluding Santus from the order book in the later 1930’s. Apparently those supplied were to and “old fashioned” appearance, but this seems to have been a Wigan requirement, and also applied to those buses supplied by the other manufacturers. This still applied to the 1937 TD4s, whose bodied closely followed the 1929 Leyland TD1 design (piano front, etc)!

Michael Hampton

Chris, Wigan Corporation did indeed show loyalty to local manufacturers, as I believe that from 1929 onwards (apart possibly from wartime allocations) it sourced chassis solely from Leyland, and bodywork from either Northern Counties or Massey Brothers, although I’m not sure how many Santus-bodied buses it operated. However, it was no doubt prudent of the Corporation to help the local economy in this way, as many of the bodybuilders’ employees were likely to use the Corporation’s buses to get to and from work etc, thus helping swell the council’s coffers.

Brendan Smith

01/06/14 – 09:35

Certainly not post-war Chris H because Santus didn’t build double deckers. You really should have a look at their coaches though because they were quite unlike any others, I’ve always had a fascination for them and it’s a pity that there are no survivors but build quality put paid to that. They did body just about every chassis going though even if few of them had long lives, I suppose this Barton PS1 was typical, lasting less than ten years with it’s coach body.
It was actually revealed after the article in Classic Bus that the coach building and the confectionery business were in fact related so even though there are no remaining coaches, at least you can treat yourself to a bag of Uncle Joe’s Mint Balls!

Chris Barker

02/06/14 – 07:24

Perhaps the excessive amount of sugar in the mint balls help to speed the decay of the vehicle body. Oh, we’re wandering off topic again!

Pete Davies

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

02/06/14 – 07:26

There is an example of postwar Santus coachwork in preservation, an unusual Seddon Mk IV registered DPR 518. It’s not been active for some time and I only discovered recently that it’s owned by someone I know (albeit not too well). I understand work is progressing on it very well.
With 74 PD1s and 42 PD2s with Leyland bodies and the first postwar Northern Counties and Massey double-deckers not delivered until 1956/7 I wouldn’t actually describe Wigan as loyal to the coachbuilders of the town. They bought just a handful of single-deckers prior to 1956, all with Northern Counties bodies. They clearly liked the Leyland body.

David Beilby

03/06/14 – 07:40

Well David that will ‘learn me’ to read my books more thoroughly, and also to clean my glasses more frequently. When I fished out my book on Northern Counties again, regarding Wigan Corporation it states that from 1930 onwards “bodywork was always built in the County Of Lancashire, and more often than not, supplied by either Northern Counties or Massey Brothers of Wigan”. It was the “more often than not” that failed to register I’m afraid. I should have remembered the Leyland-bodied Leyland Titan PDs, which might have prompted me to think more broadly with ‘local’ meaning Lancashire rather than solely Wigan!

Brendan Smith

Exeter Corporation – Leyland Tiger – EFJ 666 – 66

Exeter Corporation - Leyland Tiger - EFJ 666 - 66

Exeter Corporation
1938
Leyland Tiger TS8
Cravens B32R

Here we have Exeter City 66, a Leyland Tiger TS8 with Cravens B32R body and dates from 1938. It is owned by Colin Shears and is part of the West of England Transport Collection based at Winkleigh in North Devon. Here it is seen in the late evening working a run to the Top of Pennsylvania during the Exeter nocturnal event on 13 /11 2011. I realise there are already pictures of this vehicle on the site but I thought the night shot was a little different.
The next Winkleigh open day is Sunday 6th October 2013 and the next Exeter Twilight event is Sunday 10th November 2013.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones

02/06/13 – 08:44

A beautiful photo indeed Ken, and the bus stands out bright and clear in the night sky – quite an exceptionally professional exposure I think. On seeing the destination display I couldn’t help being reminded of some other famous buses – in very similar Southdown hues – which carried us to “97 Top of Beachy Head.”

Chris Youhill

02/06/13 – 18:26

The destination Pensylvania reminded me when staying with my aunt and uncle in the village of Staincross to the north of Barnsley, there was a district called California. Are you familiar with this area Chris?

Jim Hepburn

03/06/13 – 07:12

Not sure, but I might have been down this road before – Lincolnshire Road Car used to serve Jericho, Jerusalem and New York, amongst other quaintly-named, and even more quaintly-pronounced places!

Stephen Ford

03/06/13 – 07:13

Photography of the highest standard. Ken never fails on subject and quality.

Alan Coulson

03/06/13 – 07:13

Yes Jim, I have visited friends at Staincross so I know it from that point of view. However the only bus route into Barnsley that I ever worked was the South Yorkshire Road Transport one from Pontefract via Hemsworth, Shafton, Cudworth and Oakwell – jointly operated with Yorkshire Traction who took over all the mileage when we were sold out to West Riding in 1994

Chris Youhill

03/06/13 – 08:38

EFJ 666_2

Here is the same wonderful machine in daylight at South Cerney in 2011. Very rare to see open platform single-deckers at shows. This one was a treat to see and hear.

Les Dickinson

04/06/13 – 06:59

There’s also a Jericho in Bury and Rhodesia near Worksop.

Geoff Kerr

04/06/13 – 09:41

EFJ 666_3

“I’d say that preserved rear-platform single deckers are rare period.
Here’s a photo I took of LGOC T31/UU 6646. at Cobham 2007, showing the rear platform in all its glory.
Interesting that the rear offside seat went all the way to the rear of the vehicle.
Was this common on all such vehicles?”

Chris Hebbron

04/06/13 – 09:42

….and Hermon, Hebron and Bethlehem, all in Pembrokeshire…

Les Dickinson

04/06/13 – 14:29

A ten minute walk down the road Geoff and you’ll find First has a farestage on the T6/T8 Mankinholes Circular called ‘California’.

John Stringer

20/06/13 – 07:11

Could someone tell me what were the oblong tanks for, below the N/S/F windows please?

Andy Fisher

20/06/13 – 13:23

That looks to me like an Autovac, which was in simple terms a header tank for the fuel. I’ve not had much involvement with it but I think it was a system that used induction vacuum to pull air up from the tank. By having a reservoir it ensured that some fuel was available to start the engine.
The alternative method of getting fuel up from the tank was the lift pump which was usually on the side of the injection pump.

David Beilby

20/06/13 – 13:23

In answer to Andy Fisher, the tank is an Autovac, which draws fuel up from the tank and supplies it as needed to the fuel injection pump. I always feel that a visible Autovac adds something to the look of a bus.

Ian Thompson

20/06/13 – 13:24

No problem Andy – the little tanks are for for the “Autovac” fuel lift system and for some reason, even in my infancy, they fascinated me and caused me to view any vehicle without one as “lacking in style.” Of course in those early days I had no idea what they were for !!
As can be seen in the photo, the Autovac caused little forward distraction to front seat passengers on the Exeter Leyland, but on the Bristol/ECW it is more visible from within – no detriment of course to the superb Bristol vehicles.

Chris Youhill

20/06/13 – 13:26

Andy the tank is the Autovac. Some useful info here: //www.autovac.co.uk/

Phil Blinkhorn

21/06/13 – 09:59

One other preserved rear entrance open platform saloon is an Edinburgh Guy Arab III with MCW bodywork. For some of its life it was a driver trainer and had the offside bulkhead window removed. A ride on this proved perhaps the noisiest ride on a bus I’ve ever had! Five cylinder Gardners and Halifax hills don’t mix!

Chris Hough

28/07/14 – 17:52

There is a link here to another Craven bodied single decker, but this one is a Karrier built for the LMS and operating on the road in Stratford upon Avon but it then went by rail to Blissworth.
There is a family similarity about the contours of the cab/roof area. //railwaywondersoftheworld.com/coaches-rail.html

John Lomas

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

26/02/19 – 07:13

Used in the final 10 minutes of the film “The Remains of the Day” 1993, where Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson say their farewell…..Sorry if someone else has already listed this.

Mark Jordan