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Wilts & Dorset – Leyland Tiger – CHR 485

CHR 485

Wilts & Dorset Motor Services
1940
Leyland Tiger TS8
Harrington C32R

When photographed at Brighton during the 1970 HCVC Rally, this ex Wilts & Dorset Leyland Tiger TS8 with a Harrington C32R body had been converted into a caravan. A picture of this coach in its former glory may be found here:- www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/ 
Although the TS8 had nominally been superseded by the TS11 in October 1939, the exigencies of war resulted in deliveries of the earlier version continuing well into 1940, when Wilts & Dorset received fleet number 186, CHR 485. The TS11 model became quite a rare beast from its eventual appearance in mid 1940, and when Leyland turned its entire resources over to war work, the final 22 TS11 chassis emerged as a result of the “unfrozen” programme in 1942. They were the very last TS type Tigers to be produced. The photo in the above link of CHR 485 in Wilts and Dorset ownership is interesting in that the glasses of the destination indicator and those of the fixed passenger windows below the opening sections have flush rubber glazing, which must surely have been a later modification to the 1940 vintage Harrington body. The same features are evident in its later guise as a caravan. I can find no current record of CHR 485 being in existence today.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

23/10/18 – 12:59

Sad that despite having survived till 1970 this superb Tiger is no longer around. Let’s hope that it’s sitting somewhere awaiting restoration, though I feel that that’s unlikely.

Ian Thompson

29/10/18 – 06:08

Sorry, the 1993 Slater/Godwin preserved buses list has it as “chassis only” with the South Lancashire Transport Society in 1986.

Peter Williamson

02/11/18 – 07:05

How come that W&D, I presume a Tilling company, ordered Leyland chassis and not Bristol ones?

Chris Hebbron

02/11/18 – 12:09

In pre-war days, W&D had close links with Southdown, and followed it’s purchasing policies rather than Tilling ones. Indeed, at the outbreak of war, a fair number of Southdown Leyland TD1s found their way to W&D because of the need to cover wartime service personnel services in their area [Salisbury Plain]. The 1942 split of T&BAT arrangements left W&D in the Tilling camp rather than BET.

Michael Hampton

02/11/18 – 12:10

The reason why is surely that this was before nationalisation, and I recall reading somewhere that before WWII Wilts & Dorset was heavily influenced by Southdown – a Leyland fan.

David Wragg

03/11/18 – 06:42

Thx for that, Michael/David. For some reason, most Tilling group company bus photos I’ve seen have always been Bristols, hence my query.
My experiences with Bristol buses has been very limited and greatly influenced, negatively, by the pre-war Bristol K’s on the Isle of Wight, noisy, vibrating things, which made me think that Wilts & Dorset were very wise in buying Leyland vehicles in preference! My other was riding in more civilised post-war Bristol K’s from Fareham Bus Station to Warsash when, living in Southsea, I was posted, for some bizarre reason, to RAF Calshot for a my last 6 weeks National Service!

Chris Hebbron

03/11/18 – 06:44

There were actually quite a few BTC companies that used Leylands – Cumberland, Lincolnshire, Western and Southern National – and even Bristol Tramways & Carriage Company itself!

Stephen Ford

04/11/18 – 07:24

The Slater/Goodwin book told a partially correct story.
The chassis of CHR 485 came to the South Lancashire Transport Society from the well known Bolton PSV dealer – Lister’s. It was acquired as a donor vehicle to aid the restoration of Ribble Tiger 209 (1400), RN 7588. Upon completion of RN, the chassis of CHR was stripped for anything useable and scrapped locally.

Mike Norris

12/12/18 – 08:49

United also had many Leylands, especially fir their London coach services.

Peter Stobart

26/01/19 – 10:02

I remember seeing what remained of CHR 485 at an open day where preserved buses were kept around 1983 at Bolton (Smithills Road rings a bell, please forgive me if I am incorrect). By this time only the front of the cab & chassis remained, great pity when it looked so nice thirteen years earlier & could have been put back to original

Andrew Spriggs

I was very surprised to see a photo of CHR 485 on your page. I and two colleagues bought this bus from Norman Myers (Bolton) in 1973 with a view to restoring it. It was our first venture into restoration however the enthusiasm of our then youth was not matched by any experience and we had to admit defeat after at couple of years when we sold it on. CHR 485 was rebodied by Portsmouth Aviation hence the unusual window panels, however it had been later altered to transport racing cars so the interior had been stripped out and the rear end substantially modified. The engine still ran when we acquired it however we discovered a substantial crack in the block which looked very expensive for our modest means. I have always wondered what became of it and am pleased to learn that it was a useful donor vehicle although would have loved to see it back to working condition.
Time moves on and I have since acquired and restored a Warrington PD1 (EED 5) that I have now owned for over 40 years and which continues to attend several rallies each year.

Phil Clark

Rye Hill Park Coaches – Leyland Tiger – CKO 979

Rye Hill Park Coaches - Leyland Tiger - CKO 979

Rye Hill Park Coaches
1936
Leyland TS7
Harrington C32F

In May and June 1936 Maidstone & District bought twenty oil engined Leyland TS7 coaches with Harrington C32F bodies. These proved to be excellent purchases, but after thirteen years, including wartime, of hard work, the Harrington bodies showed signs of fatigue. During 1949 and 1950 the entire batch was equipped with new Harrington coachwork, again C32F, and went on to give upwards of eight further years of service. Seventeen were sold to a dealer in October 1958, but the remaining three survived until 1962. CKO 979, Maidstone & District No. CO 576, was one of those sold in 1958, serving first with Diadem Coaches of Luton before passing, in July 1960, to Holmes of London SE15, t/a Rye Hill Park Coaches. It is seen here in 1960 at New Addington, a large Croydon council estate on the extreme south east border of the then borough with Kent. A year later it went to Taylor of London SE1 who kept it for just four months before selling it to Elm Park Coaches of Romford in August 1961. Its subsequent history is not recorded. I acknowledge the Classic Buses website as the source of the historical detail.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

05/09/21 – 06:00

Even for a rebodied bus 25 years’ service is very creditable. I far prefer the restrained curvature of the Harrington body seen here to the exaggerated swoops that some builders went for, particularly after WWII. Do any photos of CKO 979 after rebodying survive?

Ian Thompson

06/09/21 – 07:26

Ian, I presume that you mean “Do any photos of CKO979 BEFORE rebodying survive?” This photo was taken after rebodying!

Nigel Frampton

06/09/21 – 07:31

DKL 591

Not of the same group, Ian, but here, nevertheless, is a 1936 M&D TS7 with original Harrington body. I used to travel from Kingston-on-Thames to Portsmouth on Southdown’s TS7s with this body type in the early to mid 1950s, although theirs had a sliding sunshine roof, on one occasion being opened at the Hindhead tea/toilet layover on a hot summer’s day!

Copyright: R.Marshall, via Bristol Vintage Bus Group

Chris Hebbron

Wigan Corporation – Leyland Tiger TS4 – EK 8867 – 81

Wigan Corporation - Leyland Tiger TS4 - EK 8867 - 81

Wigan Corporation
1932
Leyland Tiger TS4
Santus B32R

This picture of Wigan No.81 was taken on a dismal day in Brighton in May 1969 during the HCVC Rally. It shows a Leyland Tiger TS4 with locally Wigan built Santus B32R body delivered in October 1932. It has been established that the peculiarly Wigan name of Santus did not indicate a link between the coachbuilder and the confectionery manufacturer – see comments on this OBP page:- www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/?
The TS4 appeared in 1931 to compete with the AEC Regal, ironically designed by John Rackham who had created the Titan and Tiger models before migrating to Southall. It had a more robust chassis with a larger engine than the TS3, a new “silent third” gearbox, a fully floating rear axle and triple servo brakes. In this 1969 picture EK 8867 is wearing a very faded Wigan livery which must surely be the one it wore upon withdrawal some time earlier, whenever that was – I have no Wigan fleetlist. It is now in proper preservation.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

15/02/22 – 05:48

More than anything, this photo shews how bodywork progressed in the seven or so years after 1931! What on earth was a ‘silent third’ gear: no screaming, or some sort of synchromesh device?

Chris Hebbron

16/02/22 – 06:26

The Leyland Tiger TS1, 2 and 3 versions were fundamentally the same chassis differing only in overall length and wheelbase. The TS4 was the single deck equivalent of the Titan TD2 and shared the same engine and transmission specifications. The four speed sliding mesh gearbox of the earlier models was replaced by one in which third speed was in constant mesh with helical cut gears giving a much quieter sound output, hence the “silent third”. This gearbox was subsequently employed in all standard Tigers and Titans up to the TS11 and TD7. Wigan No. 81 was delivered in October 1932 when Leyland’s initial diesel engine of 8.1 litres was only just being produced in quantity, and most of these went into Titans, so it almost certainly began service with the 7.6 litre petrol engine. The fact that it was still wearing its Wigan livery, albeit much faded, in 1969 suggests that it may well have been converted to diesel power during its period of service with the Corporation. The Leyland oil engine, later increased in capacity to 8.6 litres, was closely based upon the petrol unit, both being of overhead camshaft layout, and the compact design, unlike competing AEC and Gardner offerings, meant that it would fit within the same bonnet length as the petrol engine.

Roger Cox

05/03/22 – 06:24

A belated thx, Roger, for your comprehensive reply.

Chris Hebbron

Bournemouth Corporation – Leyland Tiger – NLJ 267 – 89


Copyright Ray Soper

Bournemouth Corporation
1953
Leyland Tiger PSU1/13
Burlingham B41F

This shot is from the Ray Soper “Gallery” contribution A Trolleybus tour in Bournemouth click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments to it.
The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.

17/07/13 – 07:06

This is taken at Southcote Road depot, originally a tram depot. I had many journeys on these Tigers, being regular performers on our daily journey to a neighbouring school to receive our school meals. The bus ride was definitely the best part of that experience!

Grahame Arnold

Harper Bros – Leyland Tiger PS2 – LTF 808 – 22


Copyright Ray Soper

Harper Bros
1950
Leyland Tiger PS2
Harrington C??F

This shot is from the Ray Soper gallery contribution titled “Harper Brothers of Heath Hayes” click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments to it.
The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.

21/02/13 – 16:51

LTF 808 fleet No 22 had a Harrington C33F body.

Phil Burton

West Riding – Leyland Tiger PS 2/12 – EHL 337 – 726

West Riding - Leyland Tiger PS 2/12 - EHL 337 - 726

West Riding Automobile
1952
Leyland Tiger PS2/12
Roe B39F

According to my Ian Allan book which I have now found West Riding was the second largest Independent operator in the UK not sure who the first one was LUT perhaps. The book British Bus Fleets no 9 Yorkshire (company operators) was published March 1962 and cost 2s/6d by the way.  I have come across a YouTube Video of a preserved Leyland Tiger from the same batch as above you can see it here the first Minute is bit the same but it gets better when the camera goes outside the bus.

24/07/11 – 10:46

I think the largest independent was Barton

Stan

24/07/11 – 17:08

I seem to remember reading an article on Venture Transport of Consett, Co. Durham in a Buses Annual of about 1968/9 and it stated Venture was the third largest independent in the country. Perhaps by this time though, West Riding belonged to BET or NBC thus taking them out of the equation, so that would leave LUT and Barton to “fight it out” for first and second place.

Eric

25/07/11 – 08:47

Well as a starter regarding the LUT/Barton question, I have a copy of BBF 17 (North Western Area) for March 1964 which lists LUT as having 416 vehicles!

Dave Towers

25/07/11 – 08:59

I seem to remember from somewhere that LUT was the largest independent and Barton the second.

Stephen Ford

25/07/11 – 09:01

BBF17 Second Edition, undated but apparently 1965, says that LUT was the largest. BBF5, Second Edition 1965, says that Barton was the third largest.

Peter Williamson

23/11/17 – 07:18

What appears to be missing from the West Riding memories is any picture of the AEC Regent with the central entrance. They were bought to replace the trams, were painted red, and used mainly on the former tram routes. Kettlethorpe to Leeds via Wakefield (route 10) and Wakefield to Ossett (route 20)

Geoff Bragg

24/11/17 – 07:19

I would have thought Midland Red would have been the largest independent.

Roger Burdett

25/11/17 – 08:02

Midland Red was surely BET?
There is a debate over West Riding being independent but LUT was bigger than WR with Barton next?

Stuart Emmett

26/11/17 – 06:15

There is even doubt about LUT being independent (especially since Neville Mercer excluded it from his book on Lancashire Independents), but I haven’t been able to find out anything about its ownership.

Peter Williamson

28/11/17 – 07:39

Ian Allan’s ‘The Little Red Book’ 1965/66 has West Riding’s rolling stock as 433 buses and coaches (336 d/deck; 56 s/deck; 41 coaches). Lancashire United is given as having 400 buses and coaches (301 d/deck; 63 s/deck; 36 coaches), whilst sadly Barton’s entry simply states 323 s/deck and d/deck buses. (As Chad might have said: “Wot! No coaches!”). Venture Transport is shown as having 52 s/deck buses; 32 semi-coaches; 7 coaches – which I total up to be 91 vehicles. Maybe the fleets concerned varied slightly in size over the decades – contracting or expanding as various social changes took place – which could account for a certain amount of ‘jostling for 1st, 2nd and 3rd position’ – he suggests tactfully!

Brendan Smith

29/11/17 – 08:20

Brendan,
There was always friendly rivalry between Lancashire United and West Riding as to who was the largest company in pre- grouping days, both having about 400 vehicles.
In early days they in fact shared the same director (Harry England) who was West Riding’s first MD and close friend of LUT’s MD (Ned Edwards) The garter symbol on the rear of both companies’ buses was an indication of their early association developing from their tramway systems in the 1920s.

David A

30/11/17 – 08:11

Thank you for that fascinating information David. It’s much appreciated. It’s always interesting to hear about friendly rivalries that develop between bus operators. West Yorkshire Road Car and United Automobile are two others that spring to mind, although they were obviously both ‘Tilling’ companies rather than independent concerns. I’m sure that some of our OBP Team will be along soon to furnish us with details of a few more operators who ‘rubbed along nicely’ in ‘friendly rivalry’ all those years ago.

Brendan Smith

West Riding – Leyland Tiger PS2/3 – CHL 746 – 340

West Riding Leyland Tiger PS2/3

West Riding Automobile
1950
Leyland Tiger PS2/3
Longford C33F

This bus was originally owned by J Bullock & sons which merged with West Riding in 1950 this was after a failed attempt of West Riding to sell out to the British Transport Commission.
There is another photo of a similar preserved bus all be it 2 years younger and with a Roe body here.

Yorkshire Woollen District – Leyland Tiger PS1 – HD 7905 – 622


Photograph G. Brooke

Yorkshire Woollen District
1948
Leyland Tiger PS1
Brush B34F

This great shot of a superb bus arrived above due to a comment made on another YWD vehicle on this site. The person who made the comment said he owned the only survivor of a batch of 75 Brush bodied Leyland Tiger PS1s. This I had to pursue, the bus is owned by Dr Gordon Brooke who as a schoolboy went to school on these Tigers when they were new and then in his student days he was a conductor on the actual bus above.
Many of the Tigers from the original batch of 75 were re-bodied as double deckers in 1954/5 but 622 carried on until 1960 when she was withdrawn from regular service. Instead of being sold on to a dealer which was normal, 622 was used for other things. First she was used as a driver trainer by Yorkshire Woollen District and secondly as a tow-wagon/gritter by the engineering dept with the rear end cut away and most of the seats removed. In 1969 622 was sold to W. Norths (PV) Limited, Sherburn-in-Elmet (dealer).
Gordon acquired 622 in 1988 but did not start restoration until 1990, he then spent the next 12 years restoring her to an immaculate original condition as can be seen from the photograph above. To maintain originality 622 has been painted in the dark maroon livery of Yorkshire Woollen District instead of the later Post Office red, this would have been the livery when she was delivered new.
The above photograph was taken early 2006 and 622 is seen outside the shed where she was originally built in 1948 at the Brush bodyworks Loughborough, Leicestershire.

From a photograph and information contributed by Dr G. Brooke

For much more detailed information regarding YWD Tigers click here.

Looks like a beautiful restoration.

Many people are aware of the 1960’s standard BET body with curved screens at either end and some are aware of the earlier version on underfloor chassis. This is the earliest version on half-cabs.
Various contractors would build to BET’s standard design – the final type mainly by Marshall, Weymann and Willowbrook. In addition to Brush, Roe and Weymann built to this design but Yorkshire Traction also had examples built by Roberts and Northern Coachbuilders.
Brush sold out their coach building side to Willowbrook in the early ’50s and shortly afterwards Willowbrook sold out to Duple. The bulk of the Brush empire remained to do much railway work – especially building locomotives.

David Oldfield

I just had to make comment on the above vehicle. Could it be the vehicle in which I passed my PSV test? It was May 1966, the driving instructor was Clifford Allott.

Colin Wilson

This looks a superb restoration.
How lovely it would be to hear this vehicle running. These Leyland PS1 and PD1 buses were blessed with a fascinatingly musical sound, especially in intermediate gears. How I remember Southdown’s examples crooning and murmuring, with gulps and sobs when going on to the over-run! Vehicles of this era were far more characterful than in the last 30 years.

Tony Evans

What a wonderful surprise it was to see that someone had restored an Old Friend I served my apprenticeship in the Savile Town Central works and passed my PSV on this vehicle. I also drove its converted (to double deck) sisters on the Birstall to Thornhill route on many busy Saturday duties. Where is it kept? as I would love to see it!!!!

Chris Bligh

I agree completely with Tony Evans about the fabulous music emanating from the PS1s and PD1s. I passed my PSV test on Samuel Ledgard’s PD1 JUM 378 – it had just arrived, warm, from a peak hour duplicate and was tuned to perfection for the difficult course around West Leeds – I sailed around fervently hoping to pass with the toughest Ministry examiner whose fearsome reputation put terror into the hearts of even experienced lorry drivers, many of whom failed for the slightest tinkle of even one gear. As we descended a steep hill in third gear an exasperated voice wailed through the rear cab window “There are four gears on this vehicle” – Fortunately I didn’t fall for that one as I would have failed on the spot. We returned to Armley Headquarters, still showing “Kingsley Drive” on the destination blind, and I was handed the famous pink slip and there began some of the happiest times of my long career. I was allocated a late duty the following day on the Leeds – Guiseley -Ilkley service, and another fine vehicle rolled up – LAE 12, a PD1 ex Bristol with the fascinating combination of an ECW body. Quality design and construction to the last nut and bolt, and every bit as well behaved and delightful as her all Leyland “half sister” who had done so well for me the previous day on the PSV test.

Chris Youhill

Those ECW-bodied “Bristol Omnibus” Leylands were rather smart hybrids. Do you have a photo of them in Samuel Ledgard service, Chris?

Chris Hebbron

Plenty of such photographs Chris H, which I’ll send to Peter by E mail and perhaps some may appear on here. We had three ex Bristol PD1s with ECW bodies, KHW 631, KHY 395 and LAE 12. We also had a further three with BBW bodies, not handsome but full of character and soundly constructed, KHW 243, KHW 622 and LAE 2.

Chris Youhill

The preserved YWD Tiger is resident at the South Yorkshire Transport Museum in Rotherham.

Chris Hough

My father was employed as a coach painter/signwriter by Yorkshire Woollen during the 1950s. He painted these Brush bodied PS1s among others. 586/91 608/12/22 were painted in reverse livery and went on loan to Hebble at Halifax. Dad said these were painted in overtime.

Philip Carlton

Super picture of the YWD PS1 which stirs memories in Bradford`s Chester Street Bus Station. Trouble is, most were rebodied as double deckers in an all over drab red livery, with what I think were the first examples (or very early) of MCW Orion lightweight bodies.
The Federation design of single deck body dates well before WW2, going back to c. 1932, being built by Brush, ECW, Weymann, Roe et al. There was even a double deck version with front upper deck window in 3 divisions, but seen in much smaller numbers. YWD had some with centre entrance, and Thames Valley seems to be in my memory, but EYMS were the principle users.
Chris Ys remarks about ECW bodied Leylands (and BBW!!) also reminded me that the Tilling Group purchased these in the early post war years as they could not get the required number of Bristols. Pity West Yorkshire didn’t`t get any, but this always seemed to be a “flagship” fleet.

John Whitaker

Many thank for your reply Regarding the PS1 622 I wonder if any of your members know what happened to 773 (UTF 930) a Leyland Demo that ended up at Y W D T. As I said in my previous email I worked at YWDT as an Auto Electrical Engineer in the 50/60s and recall with very fond memories 773 this must have been the best of 56 seater conductor operated buses. It was a extremely reliable vehicle you sent it out on Monday morning and forgot about it until someone remembered it may need cleaning or the oil changing it just kept running. The drivers would fight to get it on there duty as it was a pleasure to drive and had vacuum brakes which where very progressive, so the Conductors loved it as well!! The brakes had the Leyland R P adjuster mechanism which worked extremely well and the only attention it required between relines was a liner check every 2 weeks (the other thing that sticks in my mind was the very unusual Exhaust Note which sounded like a Ferrari!!!) If this Super bus still exists I would very much like to see it (Distance NO object)
Also I would like to hear from any one who worked for Y W D T around the 50/60s as this was one of the best times of my life!!!

Chris Bligh

Chris, 773 was renumbered 54 in 1967 and withdrawn in 1970 going to Norths of Sherburn in Elmet in 1971 and then sold for scrap February 1971. I remember the bus well as I started work at Saville Town in 1969 and I am still employed by YWDs successors Arriva although at Belle Isle. The bus was frequently on Chickenley area services and would romp up Wakefield Cutting in third and as you say a very popular bus with drivers. Another thing I remember that was unique with 773 was the continuous push bell strip the only one of its kind in the YWD Double decker fleet until the arrival of the 1965 Fleetlines.
As regards people in the Engineering department when I started.
Depot Engineer at Saville Town was Eddie Beaumont.
A charge hand called Eric Daniels.
Central works foreman was Bennett (Jack I think)

John Blackburn

I have had a great shot of the YWD Titan 773 (UTF 930) sent to me by Bob Gell so it will be posted in its own right mid February.

Peter

With regard to YWDT staff I was apprenticed to Jack Bennett (mid 50s) who became charge hand at Dewsbury Central works (Repair Shop). Eddie Beaumont was Charge hand on the Daily Dock section. Eric Daniels was a Ganger on the Daily Dock, I believe he had returned to The Works after National Service.
I also believe Jack Bennett went on the be a Fleet Engineer or T A at West Riding at Belle Isle. His farther was a driver at Dewsbury and also played the drums in the YWDT Band, he was always known as Drummer Bennett. Also thanks Peter I will look forward to seeing the Photo in Feb!!

Chris Bligh

22/02/11 – 06:30

In response to looking for old YWD employees. May dad (Fred Sharpe) was with the company for many years. Started at Saville Town, went to Bradford (Hebble depot), back to Heckmodwike (Beck Lane) before being retired.
Fond memories of the kids bus trip to the seaside on a convoy of single deckers from Long Causeway each year, with our little ‘Paddington Bear’ type tags dangling from duffle coats (always seems to rain on those days!)
Dad used to take ‘specials’ at weekends in Bradford, often fishing trips, where the ladies would go on to the coast while the blokes did the angling. Sometimes we would get to go with them for the ride.
Used to live in Chickenley, cost us three-ha’pence to town on the L/M bus when I was first allowed to travel alone, to Sunday School. Pretty sure my dad passed his PSV on the Tiger as well. He’s still around (Feb 2011), in Mirfield. I live in Doncaster now.

Gordon Sharpe

Rather curious what L/M stands for when you say “three-ha’pence to town on the L/M bus”

Peter

That was the service ‘number’ – several YWD services ran as letters.

The ‘A’ buses went from Batley/Birstall through Dewsbury town centre to Thornhill. Later they did multi routes on the ‘A’, making them A1, A2, A3 and A4, to denote which direction they went round Thornhill – I remember those because I caught them to my Grandma’s and needed to know where I had to get off, depending which route it was running. They are now the 281/282/283 I think.

‘B’ and ‘C’ went from Ossett to Fir Cottage, which went past my other Grandma’s. ‘G’ was Cleckheaton. I can’t remember any others just now.

Service “L and M” was Dewsbury to Chickenley, The L went clockwise, the M was anti-clockwise through Chickenley itself (I think it was that way round). They are possibly absorbed into what is now the 126/127 which goes through to Ossett, but it’s donkeys years since I last rode on the bus up that way.
They were converted to numbers by the time we moved to Bradford. My dad went to the Hebble depot (YWD stored a couple of vehicles there) to pick up a YWD bus for the 66 route to Sheffield, long before the current X33. I could catch the 66 all the way from Bradford (Chester Street bus station) to Frank Lane (Rectory Park) at Thornhill, then a walk up the hill to my grandma’s.

Gordon

23/02/11 – 06:30

Just to note Chris Bligh’s comment about the Yorkshire Bus Company Band. My dad had a copy of the LP they released ‘National Tour’, which I have since digitised and added a CD to the music library of the hospital radio station in Doncaster & Bassetlaw, which I’m involved with.
Back to the bus itself – I must take a trip to Rotherham, never knew such a gem was down there! Would be such a surprise to my dad if I could get a picture standing next to it…!

Gordon Sharpe

07/03/11 – 09:27

The YWD F route was Birkenshaw to Batley. Some of the services went on the new Healy by-pass. It was not really a popular duty since there was no-where at Birkenshaw to get a pot of tea. There was a cafe in Batley but I think this was only open early morning.

Jim Broughton

16/03/11 – 17:30

Chris Bligh regarding 773 it was the Bus that Never rang in, I remember drivers bringing sweets for Ivor the Garage man just to have it.
I was also at the workshops in 1963 as Apprentice Auto Electrician and worked under you and Robin before been banished to Beck Lane to work with Herbert Smithson.
With regard to Fred Sharp he was most well known for throwing the running board across the garage every day when you cancelled any buses.
“Happy Days”

Brian Taylor

29/03/11 – 07:24

WOW!!!! What a brilliant web site. Not only do I find the bus I passed my PSV test on, but an old (sorry for the word) colleague Brian !! How the devil are you???? I remember you well!! (Just to clear up a point , when I was at YWDT I was known as Robin Bligh, but after a few years people started calling me Chris and it stuck!!) I have many happy memories of YWDT and the people who worked with us. I’d love to hear from you but this site is properly not the place! If you would like to contact me Peter at the Old Bus Photos website has my email address. I would be delighted!!

Chris Bligh

31/03/11 – 15:23

I think the garage man you referred to was Fred Smith at Beck Lane.Can you remember another garage man George Richardson who when you rang a bus in his stock comment was Let it develop.His sister Dorothy was a clippie at Beck Lane together they must have had over 50 years service with the company.

Philip Carlton

04/04/11 – 07:26

Yes Philip, I remember George very well!! He was a great guy, always a smile on his face and I believe he had spent some time in Iceland (the country not the shop) and had wonderful stores to tell about his time there. Also garage men at Beck Lane where Tommy Latham and Norman Pickles all great characters!!. Also remembered are Harry Snowden (Charge hand fitter) Walt Jennings (Foreman) Fred Smith (SS Fitter) Gerald Kay (SS Fitter) and of course Mrs Rocket canteen lady (I use the word lady lightly).
I vividly remember Tommy Latham going out to Bradford to tow in a PD Decker, with Gerald Kay with the old Tow Truck (Rigid Bar Tow) and arriving back in the depot on his own trailing the tow pole and wondering what had happened to Gerald. He was sent back to find him and did find him in the middle of Heckmondwike blocking all the traffic!!. It took him many (Long) years for him to Live that one down .

Chris Bligh

02/07/11 – 07:01

I learnt to drive in this bus in 1965, Clifford Allott was the driving instructor Tom Batty tested and passed me. They are great days to look back on I played football and cricket for the YWD for a few years 1960/1970 finally left the company in 1980. The photos are fine to look back on but they also bring back memories of cold winter mornings sat in cabs with newspaper around the windows to keep the draught out and most of them were an handful to drive I’m thinking mainly of the old Guys and the Salmon cans in particular. But it was an experience I wouldn’t have missed for the world.

John Ward

04/10/20 – 07:21

Great photo, my wife’s grandfather built this vehicle at Brush. We have seen it a few times at bus days out.

Mark Dwyer

Reliance of Stainforth – Leyland Tiger PS1 – FWX 799


Copyright J. B. Platt

Reliance (R Store Ltd)
1947
Leyland Tiger PS1
Barnaby C35F

This is a great shot of a Tiger owned by Reliance of Stainforth near Doncaster who were taken over by Blue Line (S Morgan Ltd) on April 1st 1949 but carried on operating under their own name. The Reliance livery was an Emerald Green and Dark Blue but eventually they adopted the two shades of Blue as the Blue Line livery. The above vehicle had originally been owned by Felix Motors another Doncaster area independent and was number 25 in their fleet, it joined the Reliance fleet in 1959 and was withdrawn in 1962. The Blue Line – Reliance operation was eventually taken over by South Yorkshire PTE in 1979.

This posting is a little different to normal in that David Oglesby sent me a selection of photos from his fathers album so to do them justice I have included them as an album on the “Galleries” pages the album can be viewed  here.

Photograph contributed by David Oglesby

David Oglesby’s pictures are a real feast. What a fleet of unusual high-quality vehicles! Apart from Lancs United, did any other private operator ever run so many underfloor-engined Guys? Where did the little Dennis Falcon (?) originally come from? And was the bigger Dennis s/d wearing someone else’s radiator?
Incidentally, the heavier Guy underfloors look like UFs or (more probably) LUFs rather than Warriors. The front hubs of UWW 769 point to that light Warrior axle, whereas the other Guys have the heftier version. I don’t think the Warrior was ever offered with a 6HLW engine. I may be wrong, of course.
How long did the photographed vehicles remain in service?
Sorry about all the questions, and thanks again for a wonderful photographic record.

Ian Thompson

My word, what a wonderful selection of very nostalgic pictures from the fascinating Doncaster area – many’s the Saturday a group of we “Leeds Loiners” used to travel to the famous Christ Church terminus to see the varied independent operators.  If Guy Arab underfloor engined vehicles count in Ian’s question Samuel Ledgard ran nine – eight ex Northern General/Picktree coaches and the famous GUY 3 demonstrator service bus.

Chris Youhill

Warriors never had 6 cylinder Gardner engines, Arabs (ie UFs and LUFs) did.

David Oldfield

12/10/12 – 08:25

For many years it was my understanding that the only double-deck bus body constructed by Barnaby was on NDT 997, a Leyland PD2 new as a non-psv to British Ropes of Doncaster, later used as a psv by T.D.Alexander (Greyhound) of Sheffield and Arbroath. It was depicted in the magazine ‘Buses’ (it may have been ‘Buses Illustrated’ in those days) and the caption stated that it was thought to have the only Barnaby double-deck body built.
There is a picture in David Oglesby’s album (see above) showing Reliance HWX 3, a Guy Arab double-deck. The body make is not stated, but there is another picture on the net showing it derelict after withdraw you can view it here.  Here it is stated to have a Barnaby body, and, although it could at first glance be taken to be Park Royal or Roe, the cab area is totally unlike that on bodies from either of those builders. It is also quoted as having a Barnaby body on Peter Gould’s website. Is it certain that the body was by Barnaby? Or that the one on NDT 997 was? Were there any other double-deck bodies built reputedly by them?

I’ve just seen that in the section on Reliance EVY 710 (another ‘Reliance’, that is) David Allen has stated that Bullocks had Barnaby do some double-deck rebodies for them in the 1940s. Any details/pics?

David Call

12/10/12 – 12:46

The splendid Everingham Brothers of Pocklington (taken over by EYMS in 1953) had three Barnaby bodied double deckers. Two were utility Daimler CWs later rebodied, and the third was an AEC Regent bought new in 1949.

Chris Youhill

13/10/12 – 06:38

Thanks for that, Chris, your post inspired me to do some research on Everingham Brothers, and most of my findings were located on the East Yorkshire Motor Services website. Is that the principal source of your own information? There are three pictures of GWF 256, the Regent III, two of it in EYMS colours and one in Everingham’s. The latter looks to be a manufacturer’s photo. There is one shot of rebodied JP 5049 (CWG5) and two of CWF 750 (CWA6). These last three pics were all taken in EYMS days.
Prior to tonight I had little knowledge of the Everingham fleet, other than of the few vehicles which lasted long enough with EYMS to appear in the first edition of British Bus Fleets (Yorkshire Company Operators), which may have been BBF9, I’m not sure now. The ex-Everingham survivors at the time may have been just the two Regal IVs, but I do recall that those two were still operating. One thing of which I was unaware was that EB obtained matching registrations for any vehicles they bought new and had done so for many years – they must have been virtually pioneers in that respect. Also, after the takeover, EYMS simply added 600 to the fleet numbers of any vehicles they were keeping. So EB 53-62 became 653-662, despite the fact that at the time the numbering of new EYMS vehicles had only just passed the 600 mark. What were presumably EB 31/4/5/7-41/3-5 were acquired by EYMS, but either not operated, or not kept long enough to be renumbered. Rebodied CWF 750 became EYMS 664 (you would imagine that it had been EB 50) and JP 5049 became 663, although as it had apparently been acquired secondhand (ex-Wigan Corporation?) there’s no easy way of knowing what the EB fleet number had been.

David Call

13/10/12 – 06:39

Regarding Barnaby, my self-compiled list of bodies built by Barnaby shows (not including early open top deckers for Binningtons Willerby and Lee & Beaulah, Elloughton) 20 double deckers, with Bullock of Featherstone the best customer with 12, then Everingham Bros, Pocklington with 3 and 1 each for Doncaster independents-Felix, Severn, Reliance & Premier and the 1 for British Ropes which was the last decker built by Barnaby.
Most of the above operators, and many more also had Barnaby bodied saloons.
My list shows about 347 PSV bodies built, not all confirmed, as I say this is my own list and is open to correction, but not a bad total for a small Hull business.

Mike Davies

28/10/13 – 13:02

Was the bus working a miners’ service? I didn’t think Edlington was a normal destination for any of the independents.

Geoff Kerr

29/10/13 – 07:08

There is, at least, one Barnaby survivor; a Leyland Tiger PS1/1 with C33F Barnaby bodywork AHL 694, It a working machine, performing on an Agatha Christie sightseeing tours around Torbay, ending at Greenway House. It was new to Bullock & Sons in 1947. Hercule Poirot and Miss Marple are regular passengers! Here’s the link: flickrhivemind.net/

Chris Hebbron

24/11/13 – 14:25

Somewhat belatedly I can confirm that Everingham Bros JP 5049 had fleet number 49 and was new to Everingham. The reason for the Wigan registration is that it was registered by Massey who built the original body.
CWF 750 is confirmed as being Everingham Bros. 50.
Everingham 47 and 48 (Bedford OWB/Roe) were similarly registered by Roe as JUA 647/8.

John Kaye

24/11/13

Wartime coincidences in the Yorkshire bus world – Samuel Ledgard had two superb Daimler CWD6/Duples registered JUB 647/8.

Chris Youhill

26/11/13 – 06:13

There was also a peacetime coincidence in the Yorkshire bus world Chris. When West Yorkshire took delivery of Bristol RELL6Gs SRG30/31 in 1966, they were registered NWT 698/699D. In 1972 three new Ford Escort vans arrived for the service fleet, two of which (4042/4043) were registered NWT 698/699K.

Brendan Smith

08/10/17 – 07:58

Some time ago Mike Davies mentioned that he had compiled a draft list of Barnaby bodies.
Has this ever been published?
If not, I wonder if he would be prepared to share it with me.
I recently came across a photo of Leyland TS8 DWT 425 with Thompson, Sutton in Craven which may have had a Barnaby body – unfortunately I don’t have the copyright holders permission, so I’m unable to post it.
Barnaby body queries come up frequently, and the list would be most useful.

Peter G

10/10/17 – 06:06

I think there are 2 Barnaby bodied psvs in preservation-the PS1 mentioned above and JVY 516 Regal III new to York Pullman.

Roger Burdett

17/10/17 – 06:39

In answer to Ian Thompson’s original question, Harpers of Heath Hayes seemed to standardise on Guy Arab LUFs for coach work. I’m not sure how many there were, but the last four (which were also the last four Arab LUFs built) are preserved.

Peter Williamson

26/02/21 – 09:43

Further to Mike Davies (13/10/12) I haven’t been able to find any trace of Felix having had a Barnaby-bodied double-decker. Can anyone confirm that they did indeed have one, and give details?

David Call

28/02/21 – 06:18

According to PSV Circle Fleet History PB4, Felix had their no.12 – YG 3763 – a 1933 petrol-engined AEC Regal coach rebodied by Barnaby as H55C in 1943. It was fitted with a 7.7 diesel engine at the same time. It was withdrawn as such in 1950 and sold to British Ropes, Doncaster for staff transport, and who coincidentally purchased a Barnaby-bodied PD2 brand new.

John Stringer

28/02/21 – 06:19

David C, according to Peter Gould’s fleetlist, the claim that Felix had a Barnaby bodied double decker would seem to be erroneous. T. Severn had a utility Guy Arab rebodied by Barnaby in 1948 (which seems rather an early date) but then kept it for only four years, selling it in 1952, surely it went to another operator somewhere?

Chris Barker

28/02/21 – 10:06

John S, thanks for the info. Like Chris B, I had checked the Peter Gould Felix fleet list, but (probably also like Chris B) I had forgotten to look for rebodies.

David Call

28/02/21 – 14:57

Felix having an AEC Regal rebodied as a double-decker is reminiscent of Leon rebodying a Leyland Lion – and at much the same time, too, although Leon had their Lion rebodied by NCB. //www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/?p=7931

David Call

28/02/21 – 14:58

The old Peter Gould lists are obsolete. Peter is now the secretary of the Local Transport History Library, and he withdrew his previous listings years ago. They were then pirated and put back on the web without his authority. The place to look now is the illustrated LTH Library, and the entry for Felix under year 1933 confirms the accuracy of John Stringer’s comment.

Roger Cox

28/02/21 – 21:44

By coincidence only yesterday (Saturday 27th) the Yorkshire area of the Model Bus Federation held their fortnightly Zoom meeting, the theme being Barnaby. Chris Marshall showed a photo of Felix Regal No 12, YG 3763 with its 1943 Barnaby H55C body. That confirms John Stringer and Roger Cox’s messages that it did exist.

Eric Bawden

Blackburn Corporation – Leyland PS1 – BCB 340/EAS 956 – 7


Copyright Duncan Holden

Blackburn Corporation Transport
1948
Leyland Tiger PS1
Crossley B32F

Blackburn Corporation Transports roots go back to the first services in 1881, the trams, unusually, being wholly steam-hauled for the whole period, with corporation takeover and subsequent electrification in 1901.
Bus services started in 1929. Tramway closures started in 1935, but the system’s complete demise was delayed by the unpleasantness between 1939 and 1945; finally closing in 1949.
In March 1948, BCT took delivery of five single-deck Leyland PS1’s, with Crossley B32F bodies, the second half of an order placed in 1947. This second batch were numbered 6-10 (BCB 339-343). They were delivered with the typical Crossley body design of two shallower rear windows. At some stage, these four windows were altered to resemble the others. They also had painted radiators, later becoming chrome. Clayton Dewandre heaters were a fitment, and unusually, for a bus, the front entrance has a recessed sliding door. You can see the emergency exit in the rear of the bus.
The buses spent most of their lives on the so-called East/West route, merely bearing the words EAST or WEST on their blinds. Quaintly, the rear ‘blind’ was a very small window box low down on the rear nearside, with a flap hinged across the centre. The flap moved up or down to expose either ‘EAST’ or ‘WEST’, printed on short vehicle registration plates – crude, but effective!
The batch was finally withdrawn from service between 1964 and 1969, No. 7 being withdrawn on 28/2/1967. However, it remained in the fleet, eventually as a heritage vehicle, being transferred to the company’s coaching arm, Blackburn Coachways. It was very active in the preservation scene in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s.
Some time after 1998, she was re-registered EAS 956. (The BCB 340 registration was transferred, firstly, to a Volvo B10M coach in the Blackburn Transport fleet, in 2002; then going onto East Lancs-bodied Dennis Trident double decker No.1, which carried the mark, until being sold to Blackpool in 2007).

Copyright Chris Hebbron

In 2004, the PS1 was sold and purchased by keen bus enthusiast, Merddyn Jones, of Jones International Coaches of Llandeilo, who mechanically restored it. My photo was taken in 2007, outside Jones’s garage. Imagine how surprised I was to find a Blackburn bus, perchance, in rural Wales!
In 2008, the bus was acquired by Silver Star Holidays, of Caernarfon. It earns its keep, together with an impeccable 1950 Burlingham-bodied AEC Regal III (LPT 328) , on vintage coach tours/weddings etc. In a photo I’ve seen, dated last January, it was looking very smart, apparently having had a repaint.
A sister vehicle, No.8 (BCB 341) has also been preserved.
A keen Leyland aficionado, Merddyn now owns something bigger, an ex-Southdown ‘Queen Mary’.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron (with thanks to Duncan Holden and Merddyn Jones).

26/09/11 – 06:23

7 didn’t remain with Blackburn after withdrawal. It went into private preservation in the Manchester area. I recall it appearing nicely restored in the early eighties and it was still with an owner in Stockport at that time. Blackburn only bought it back later.
It is worth crediting Duncan Holden’s site as it is an excellent example of what can be done on one operator. If you like Blackburn’s fleet allow yourself plenty of time to look at it //www.olivegreenandivory.co.uk

David Beilby

04/10/11 – 17:14

Thanks, David, for filling in a gap of which I wasn’t aware.

Chris Hebbron

27/10/11 – 07:29

Thank you for the correction to the history of Blackburn 7 (BCB 340).
In 1968 – 7 was sold to a dealer along with most of the remaining batch and was expected to be scrapped, but she was sold to a youth band and toured Europe.
Laid up after 1973, I and three friends rescued and purchased 7 in 1976 at the eleventh hour for its scrap value, in a semi derelict, vandalised condition, from a Stockport group, with a ceased frost damaged engine and we spent several years rebuilding it to a very high standard. We rallied it extensively from 1977 to 1992 when we sold it back to Blackburn, who had hired it from us occasionally. Blackburn did nothing to it and sold it on to Jones. Its ivory/off white colour has been repainted in the wrong shade, and applied around the cab, which is incorrect. The green and lining out is as we applied it with varnish in 1985. It had had a full mechanical rebuild in the 1980’s including the engine. We were very fond of it and it is nice to see it still looking good and earning its keep, which is exactly how we wanted it to be. I still have most of its history and some other information. A lovely bus to own and drive!

Steve Heginbotham

27/10/11 – 13:58

Thx for filling in some more detail. Your tale is so typical of the trials and tribulations which vehicles (and restorers) go through and the wonder is how some vehicles ever survive them! Have you been involved in any more restorations?

Chris Hebbron

08/11/11 – 06:45

Yes, both me and my Brother-in-law where involved in the very early stages of the restoration of Manchester tram 765 when it was kept in Birchfields Road depot. I also did some dismantling work on a similar tram to Stockport 5 and the parts (to equip 5) were kept in our house for several years. I also restored cars, motorcycles, and 3 AFS vehicles. Alas I now only have two vintage motorcycles and devote my spare time to compiling books on transport. We went to Blackburn Transport in 1977 for a crash course in vehicle body restoration and professional painting skills, which is why 7 still looks so good. 8 layers of hand applied, top quality paint, perfectly matched and applied with brushes at £30 each in those days!!
We also considered buying sister bus number 8 when it was kept at Burtonwood Airfield, and then almost completely intact.

Steve Heginbotham

09/11/11 – 06:15

Phew, Steve, someone should give you a medal for your efforts, although I know you’d argue it was a labour of love! It’s certainly a record to be proud of, anyway!

Chris Hebbron

01/12/12 – 09:18

The Olive Green & Ivory website mentioned above has been having problems with images being freely filched and used on the web by others. It was taken down completely, but in response to many requests a small part of it has now been reinstated, with anti-theft watermarking.
Please help the webmaster by following the link to the site, looking at the quality of the few pics that have been reinstated, and leaving your (helpful and productive, please) comments. www.olivegreenandivory.co.uk

Tony

07/02/13 – 14:27

This is a question for Steve Heginbotham, I’m trying to trace the sister bus BCB 341 – I am unable to contact ‘Queensbury Old Farts Club’ as their email won’t receive and they are the last know owners. Can you help? Or can anybody else help? Please??

Rachel

07/02/13 – 16:48

Classic Bus website shows BCB 341 vehicle now owned by Mr Young in Faversham but that was in 2010
Blackburn 8, PS1 {472994} / Crossley B32F, 1948, BCB 341, North West Museum of Transport 2005. To Beeby, Huddersfield 10/06. Queensbury Old Farts Motor Club, Bradford 2007, but restoration stalled. Sold on eBay 10/09 to Young, Faversham. Major work underway 2010.

Ken Jones

11/02/13 – 06:58

Thanks Ken – that’s as far as I got with her too – does anyone know who Mr Young is? or even better how to contact him? Many thanks.

Rachel

25/11/15 – 07:14

Remember travelling on these as a kid, They were used to transport us from the Tech & Grammar School in the centre of town to the baths at Belper Street for swimming lessons as well as the regular East Park Drive and West Park Drive services which ran either side of the Corporation Park.

Bernie Dickinson

06/06/16 – 06:40

Sadly, I have now found number 7 stored in the open, and out of use for at least three years in the corrosive sea air of the North Wales coast, after the owning company folded in 2013. Now in a semi derelict state, rotting away and requiring major work to put right, this previously immaculately restored, very well kept and much loved and rare bus has been very neglected and is likely doomed for scrap.

Steve Heginbotham

16/09/19 – 06:22

EAS 956

I have purchased Blackburn Leyland PS1 number 7 for the second time and will restore her again. In a very poor state and requiring a total rebuild. I hope to have her back up to scratch by 2021.

Steve Heginbotham

18/09/19 – 07:22

You’re a real stickler for punishment, Steve, but good luck with your task.
It seems so long that I saw her in Llandeilo, in 2007. Anyone know the situation with No.8?

Chris Hebbron

23/09/19 – 07:10

Thanks for words of encouragement Chris.
Number 8 is still on DVLA records but it’s not been seen for decades.
Last noted in Faversham 2008.

Steve Heginbotham

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

20/12/20 – 06:48

Blackburn 7 is currently in my shed not owned by me but having just been lined out and emblems applied. Understand going back to earning it’s keep in 2021.

Roger Burdett