Here is a view of YXA 372, to complement HDA 554E posted a while ago. YXA is another relegated to “staff bus” duties with Dan Air, and seen at Lasham. The layout of the indicators suggests very strongly that she started life with Grey Green or an associated company. She was photographed in January 1976. I apologise for the fact that a van is blocking, but I couldn’t get a better angle.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
02/01/14 – 08:29
This Bedford was new to Fallowfield and Britten in 1960 and seated 41 in a front entrance body.
Chris Hough
02/01/14 – 08:30
Despite appearances, the paint on coach and van is green! It’s a “dud” slide from that point of view. I don’t recall the make.
Pete Davies
02/01/14 – 09:31
Pete. I don’t think it’s so much a dud slide as a dull green – almost matt – and you probably couldn’t have made much more of it anyway. It would be interesting to know exactly how many Leyland/Bedfords there were? It seems that, for what they were, the Leyland powered Bedfords were well thought of. Were they, in the main, big groups like Grey-Green? PS: SB8 Leyland 330 [same size as SB5 Bedford 330] SB13 Leyland 370 [same size as Albion Victor VK21L] VAL14 & VAM 14 Leyland 400 [Tiger Cub and Bristol LH]
David Oldfield
02/01/14 – 11:32
The shade of green on the slide isn’t that far removed from the shade of mud green employed by Dan Air Engineering for their vehicles.
Phil Blinkhorn
02/01/14 – 17:34
I know that many Bedford TK lorries had Leyland engines.
Jim Hepburn
03/01/14 – 08:15
Apparently those in the know could distinguish the SB8 from the SB1 by inspecting the headlamps, as it had 24-volt electrics rather than 12. So it’s possible that there were other differences, making the Leyland-engined model into more of a premium product.
Peter Williamson
03/01/14 – 12:10
I never personally came across an SB1; it must have been a slug with its Bedford 300 diesel. The SB3 was far more common with its smooth and quiet petrol version of the Bedford 300. It was the smooth, quiet and fairly lively running of the petrol OB which endeared it to so many people. The SB3 was (almost) the last gasp of this “technology” and was very popular with small independent operators. There was a VAM3 – but I’m only aware that Salopia operated any of them. Petrol was becoming passe and very expensive compared with diesel operation even though – big AECs and Leylands apart – they were slow, noisy and smelly.
David Oldfield
06/03/15 – 16:14
To David Oldfield, I am 99% certain that the Bedford SB8 had a Leyland 350 engine, not a 330. The Bedford SB featured in most operators fleets at some time. I have always liked them.
Mid-Wales Motorways was a medium sized independent operator working in the Welsh Marches. Based at Newtown, the fleet operated some lengthy routes, some of which crossed the border into England. Here we see RCT 2, a Bedford SB3 with Yeates bodywork, which was new to Delaine, Bourne, but spent most of it’s life with Mid Wales. A similar vehicle from the fleet of Worthen Motors is seen in the background, and between them is another Mid Wales Bedford, a VAS5/Duple Vista 25 which is slightly too modern for this site!
Photograph and Copy contributed by Don McKeown
08/06/14 – 09:55
Photographed in Montgomery; the view virtually unchanged from this picture last time I was there (2010)
Michael Keeley
09/06/14 – 11:13
My book on North Wales independents was originally supposed to include Montgomeryshire, but I seriously over-ran on the page count and so had to leave it for another day. However, I’d already collected a lot of pictures from the area, many of them taken in Montgomery itself. One thing I noticed is that the chimneys in the photographs were always smoking away merrily regardless of the levels of sunlight! Is Montgomery known for being a particularly cold place as well as an undeniably scenic one? The Worthen Motorways SB/Yeates in the background appears “full frame” in my book on Shropshire independents, but I’ve never been sure whose colour scheme it wears. Worthen didn’t really have one at this point in its existence – the vehicles inherited from MWM at the beginning merely had their cream areas overpainted in red.
Neville Mercer
10/06/14 – 08:06
When the gentleman who took the photo says it was 1960 I have to believe him but what is that green car to the left of the picture. At first I thought Humber Sceptre but the Arrow version didn’t appear until 1967, then I thought HB Viva but they too didn’t fall off the Vauxhall lines until about 67/8 so it can’t be one of them?
Orla Nutting
10/06/14 – 08:11
If it helps.
Peter
10/06/14 – 16:00
Yes it did, thanks. It’s a ‘mark 2’ (i.e. Rootes Arrow design) Humber Sceptre so the picture dates from 1967 or later.
Orla Nutting
10/06/14 – 16:00
I think “1960” relates to the year of the vehicle, not when it was photographed, Orla. Certainly, RCT3, the preserved Delaine Titan, is listed as a 1960 vehicle. (No Delaine vehicles in the list on the left – I’ll have to dig out some of mine, unless one or other among the readership gets in first!) It looks to me as if the offending car’s registration plate is black on yellow, so the view must have been captured in or after 1967.
Pete Davies
10/06/14 – 16:01
It’s definitely a Humber Sceptre, with its silver plate at the back and vinyl roof. My next-door neighbour had one, even in this colour! Mmm, stylish!
Chris Hebbron
10/06/14 – 16:02
Yet another misinterpretation of a photo heading, the second within 2 days. Orla, I fear the 1960 refers to the build date of the Bedford, not the date of the photo. Perhaps Peter might wish to consider altering the layout of the heading for future photos?
Eric Bawden
10/06/14 – 16:02
It appears to be a “yellow” rear number plate. As far as I know this type of plate wasn’t issued on new cars until 1968 / 1969.
David R
10/06/14 – 16:03
I have to concur with Orla, the Mk II Sceptre (which this is) with 1725cc engine, first appeared in 1965.I had this exact colour MkII Sceptre as a Company car in 1971/2. Further identification is the ‘Scepre’ motif on the lower near-side vynl roof.
Nigel Edwards
11/06/14 – 07:53
I think it means the RCT2 dates from 1960 – the VAS behind is obviously much newer than that, I think that Duple body design came out about 1967 or 8
Michael Keeley
11/06/14 – 07:54
The historical Delaine fleet list may be found here:- www.delainebuses.co.uk/Fleet/Fleet%20List%201919-2014.pdf This vehicle is listed as fleet no.49, registration No. RCT 2, a Bedford SB3, chassis no.78234 with Yeates Europa C41F body, new 05/1960, sold 06/1966 to Price of Wrockwardine Wood, Telford. Insofar as Peter’s headings are concerned, in response to Eric’s suggestion, I have always taken the date quoted to be that of the depicted vehicle when new, not the date of the photograph. This is surely fundamental to the substance of each picture submitted, and I, personally, would not wish that to change. The photograph date can always be stated in the accompanying text if this is deemed vital.
Roger Cox
11/06/14 – 07:55
The coach would be from around 1960. I drove for A L Moore of Sleaford whose premises were only around 20 miles from Delaine and we had a very similar coach registered MCT 440 which dated from 1957. Both were registered in Sleaford, Lincs. We also had a later style Europa, PTL 850 which was new in 1961. Both were SB3 petrol engine and very smooth, superb vehicles to drive. Yeates were different, but I preferred them to mainstream body styles (except early Panoramas, perhaps).
Richard Hill
11/06/14 – 07:56
I am surprised at the direction this discussion has taken. I did not specify when the photo was taken, but it was actually around 1969 or 1970.
Don McKeown
11/06/14 – 09:18
Don may well be surprised at the direction this discussion has taken, but for an OBP discussion to go off at a tangent is completely normal! I’m taking a bit of a risk here, trying to tell someone when they took their photo, but here goes. Don himself reckons that the Bedford VAS visible in the shot is too modern for this site, so that implies a 1970+ vehicle, with photograph date to match. The said vehicle actually looks to be one of MEP889/90K, new to Mid-Wales in 7/72 – so there’s an earliest date for the shot.
David Call
11/06/14 – 11:30
David is quite correct. That is a 1972 Duple front. Is the main player an SB1 or an SB3 though? (see above/Roger’s post)
David Oldfield
11/06/14 – 11:31
Roger, can I clarify my suggestion about photo headings. I agree entirely with you about the build date of the subject vehicle being fundamental, and like yourself I have always taken the date to refer to when the vehicle was new, but we have the situation where comments have been generated within a couple of days of one another on two photos because the commentators have misinterpreted the build date as the photo date. My suggestion was merely to re-arrange the layout of the photo heading so it becomes less likely that the date is taken in the wrong text. Can I also make a correction to Nigel’s comment about the Humber Sceptre in the photo. It is actually a Mk. III model produced between 1967 and 1976. The Mk II was an upgrade of the Mk I and was produced between 1965-7.
Eric Bawden
11/06/14 – 15:02
…..but like many cars of that era, the Sceptre was a downgrade of the traditional cars of that marque which came before it!
David Oldfield
12/06/14 – 08:28
The other cars are a Series V Humber Super Snipe upper side veiw and the rear window of a Rover P6.
Roger Broughton
12/06/14 – 08:29
Off-topic: this was a version, I think of the Hillman Hunter, produced at the same time as the Super Minx family as a more lightweight alternative to that rather underpowered but much liked tank. On-topic: As with buses, when you start to cut down on the weight, other things go as well. Off-topic Eventually the Hunter was badge engineered: the Sunbeam Rapier for example was a giant coupe of rather bizarre appearance. On-topic: were petrol engines at all in demand for coaches, post Suez?
Joe
12/06/14 – 08:31
Puthering – that’s what the chimneys are doing, Neville. I think its an East Midlands dialect word for when chimneys are throwing-out smoke before the fire gets going. Well, I know what it means – I’m just not that certain its an East Midlands word. And – sorry to drift off thread here – David R (10/6) mentions the yellow rear number plate. Are the old white/silver-on-black plates now illegal for new vehicles – LT continued with them into the TH/B15 era, well after everybody else had moved over (did they get special dispensation?).
Philip Rushworth
12/06/14 – 10:06
The petrol Bedford SB3 was very popular until about 1962. From then on, the diesel gradually took over and was universal by 1967. Salopia continued against the trend to buy SB3s but were also alone in buying the VAM3 where everyone else bought the VAM5 with Bedford 330 diesel or VAM14 with Leyland O.400. As far as I know, Bedford were the last manufacturer to offer petrol. Ford had offered petrol but had more or less standardised on diesel long before Bedford.
David Oldfield
12/06/14 – 10:07
Old-style plates can only legally be carried by vehicles registered before 1st January 1973. Love the word ‘puthering’, wherever it came from.
Chris Hebbron
12/06/14 – 14:18
OK, so it should be apparent by now that I spent more time in the ’60’s looking at cars rather than coaches (in fact I never did, being much more a Corporation bus follower). I loosely termed the Humber Sceptre a ‘mark 2’ because the I wasn’t sure if the 1965 facelift and the then introduction of the 1725cc 5 bearing crankshaft engine represented a formal change of mark on the Sceptre (though it did on the contemporary Hillman Minx and perhaps the Super Minx on which the Sceptre was based, all having previously had a 3 bearing crankshaft in their 1600cc (approx) engines). The Hillman Hunter replaced the Super Minx in 1966. The Singer Vogue took the new Arrow design at the same time whilst the Sceptre based on the Hunter shell was introduced early in 1967 along with a Minx and Singer Gazelle bearing a 1500cc (approx) engine. The fastback Rapier followed shortly after this. Yes it illegal to have black and white plates on a new car. Until recently it was only permitted on vehicles regd before 1 Jan 73 but that may have moved on a year now with the change in tax exempt deadline. I too don’t know how LT managed to keep black and white plates on new vehicles well in the ’70’s. Back to the coaches, for what it’s worth, if there is a date in a picture heading heading I prefer it to apply to the date it portrays rather than than of the vehicle(s).
Orla Nutting
12/06/14 – 14:19
Almost all Ripponden & District wagons carried silver on black number plates until the company ceased trading – only a few years ago. I seem to recall once reading somewhere that the requirement for reflective plates did not apply to certain heavy vehicle classes, but that it was not a well published fact and that most operators who were not in the know just assumed they had to fit them. However, try as I might,I can’t find any reference to this anywhere now. Surely the mighty LT wouldn’t do anything illegal would they?
John Stringer
12/06/14 – 14:19
The legislation regarding compulsory reflective plates after 1st January 1973 only applied to cars and not buses/lorries. That’s how LT got round it. Parcel carrier (and form PSV operator) Ripponden and District continued to use black & white plates on their lorries for years after the 1st Jan regs. came in. I’ll stick my neck out here and go so far as to say black & white plates on lorries and buses was still legal till the change to the current format (51) in 2001, though I stand to be corrected on that point.
Eric Bawden
12/06/14 – 14:20
It is my recollection that, initially at least, the requirement to display reflective number plates did not apply to heavier vehicles – perhaps the logic was that they were big enough for people to see them anyway! After trawling the net for a while I have managed to unearth the following, which appeared in ‘Commercial Motor’ dated 13 December 1980. ‘Reflective number plates must be fitted to vehicles first registered on or after January 1, 1973, except vehicles over three tons unladen, which are fitted with reflective rear markings, stage carriages, pedestrian controlled vehicles, work trucks, agricultural machines and trailers’. I haven’t been able to find any reference to any changes in the legislation since 1980.
David Call
12/06/14 – 17:32
I absolutely cannot agree with Orla re the nature of the date in the picture heading. Surely it is the vehicle itself that we are primarily discussing in each OBP entry, however interesting the surroundings or background story. The picture date and other details can always be stated in the accompanying text if required. The adoption of the photo date in each title rather than the vehicle construction date is going to lead to some significant misunderstandings and inconsistencies. In any case, what date would one show if the picture date were unknown?
Roger Cox
13/06/14 – 11:31
I see pictures like this as a tableau of days gone within which setting the passenger vehicle(s) hold the most interest but form only a part of the historical record. It is as such that I give pre-eminence to the importance of the date of the picture and then within that the age of the buildings, the vehicles, the fashions etc. I’m not hung up on it and of course there are times when no date is known and there is pleasure into trying to establish that point in history by reference to the content.
Orla Nutting
14/06/14 – 08:18
To posters concerned, thanks for the clarification re. number-plates. And thanks, Orla, for sorting-out some Rootes Group badge engineering which has troubled me for some time – I assume that in due course the Arrow Hillman Minx became a 1500cc Hunter. And (sorry to drift off again): does anybody know why yellow was chosen as the colour for the rear plate? red would have seemed to be more logical – unless, I suppose, if the letters had to be black, they wouldn’t show up well on red in day-time . . .
Philip Rushworth
15/06/14 – 08:02
Many thanks Don for this wonderful image, I still visit Mongomery on a regular basis and as mentioned this view has not changed it is well worth a visit, RCT 2 can be seen outside the Chequers public house (sadly now converted into a French themed overpriced restaurant) at the side of the town hall in the rear of the photo is Bonner and son a time warp hardware store where “four candles” can be purchased, at the top of the square can be found Castle street garage D R Pugh and Son a typical rural garage, Ron Pugh (the proprietor) my cousin was a well known local character who drove part time for Mid Wales Motorways he was also a volunteer fireman in the village I remember him whizzing past in one of Mid Wales many Bedford OBs sounding the horn on an afternoon school run, he also drove a Morris J type van based mini bus I am unable to locate a photo of this vehicle, and of all the vehicles mentioned in the comments, these and more could be found behind the garage and in a field further down the road, a huge array of stored cars some of which ended up restored this image brings back many happy visits to Montgomery and of course watching Mid Wales vehicles at work.
Mark Mc Alister
15/06/14 – 11:19
Philip, black letters on red plates were tried in Ireland in, if I remember correctly, the late 1970s. A very few survive on preserved vehicles but, considering there are still plenty of original style plates around on older vehicles and agricultural machinery, the experiment was not a success and was eventually terminated when the British style system was abandoned in favour of the year and county mark system.
Phil Blinkhorn
27/06/14 – 06:59
Wow, reading the above comments reminds me of Home. Ron Pugh as mentioned above also drove for my father who was Montgomerys own coach operator, County Garage later Trefaldwyn Motors. Does anyone have any photos of our motors??
Russell Price
27/06/14 – 08:46
Russell – many of the photos on this link are of Trefaldwyn Motors’ buses – enjoy! //tinyurl.com/otn4ed7
Chris Hebbron
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
08/07/14 – 14:51
Many thanks for mentioning Ron Pugh, indeed he did drive for your fathers company and I should have mentioned Trefaldwyh Motors, a much respected company in Mongomery, of course Trefaldwyn being the Welsh language for Montgomery, a really interesting book to read is Montgomery’e Buses an empire of independents by Brian Poole (Oakwood press) Trefaldwyn does get a mention along with two photos. I too would welcome more views of Trefaldwyn vehicles, sadly Ron Pugh passed away just over 3 years ago following a battle with cancer. However Joan Pugh now lives in Newtown.
Here we can see CCV 166C, a Bedford SB5 with Duple C41F body (1183/193) that was new in May 1965 together with 181 ECV, a Bedford SB1 with Duple Super Vega C41F (1105/440) new in June 1959, in the delightful orange and cream of Jennings of Bude, Cornwall. Presumably, the Duple Viceroy behind is also Jennings, and presumably also bought new. A great period picture of unknown copyright.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson
29/01/15 – 07:17
A lovely photograph of two nice Bedford Duple coaches. I have always thought that the Bedford SB – Duple Bella Vega was a classic design, although often overlooked by enthusiasts. It was interesting that a matching range of designs was built for the Bedford VAS (Bella Vista), SB (Bella Vega), VAM (Bella Venture) and VAL (Vega Major). The same body if fitted to a Thames Trader was known as the Trooper. Jennings eventually took over Western National’s Bude Depot and it’s services.
Don McKeown
29/01/15 – 07:18
It is probable that the third coach is RAF102G, a Bedford VAL with Duple Northern C53F body, new to WJO Jennings in March 1969. Although there were several Duple bodies delivered during the late 60s and early 70s, it is the position of the emergency exit door that indicates it was the VAL.
John Grigg
02/10/16 – 05:41
It is a VAL definitely as the wheel arch is level with the stainless steel side trim, on a VAM or YRQ the arch goes much higher up into the next panel.
Russell Price
04/10/16 – 05:25
181 ECV survives in preservation with Ron Greet. But CCV 166C is not known to survive, last tax expired 1/10/89
675 OCV proclaims herself to be a 1962 vehicle, with Duple Super Vega bodywork in the fleet of Crimson Tours, St Ives, Cornwall. This distinction is important, as I know of two others and there may be more! I used to work with a chap from St Ives, Ringwood, Hampshire. Despite using the postcode, his mail was continually misdirected to Huntingdonshire or Cornwall. I suppose folk in those places had the same trouble. Anyway, back to the vehicle. She’s an example of the Bedford SB3, with C41F seating. We see her at Showbus, Duxford, on another day it didn’t rain, 29 September, 1996. I have severe doubts about the legality of that number plate.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
07/09/15 – 07:16
Bedford SB3 675 OCV is a valid, original and still currently in use registration, from “vehicleenquiry.gov” date first registered was 14th June 1962 with 7630cc petrol engine. Details from “buslistsontheweb” are; 675 OCV Bd SB3 88799 Du 1145/55 C41F 8/1962 New to Crimson,St Ives.
07/09/15 – 07:19
Lots of other pictures of it found via googling the reg No. They all have White on Black plates, I wonder if, at the time of your photo, the owners had experimented with the more modern reflective plates and fitted them the wrong way round with the Black on Yellow at the front.
John Lomas
08/09/15 – 07:00
Could a misprint have slipped in somewhere? 7630cc sounds like a pretty hefty engine for an SB!
Ian T
08/09/15 – 07:01
To clarify, I’m in no doubt that the registration is correct. What puzzles me is the use of black on white plate at the back. As John Lomas suggests, they may have been fitted incorrectly.
David, I notice on your photo, the rear bumper trim has been fitted. I could be wrong ‘not unusual’ but in the days of black number plates, weren’t these made of glass or perspex and illuminated from behind?
Ronnie Hoye
09/09/15 – 07:15
The standard engine for a Bedford SB3 is the Bedford 300 ci. 4.927L Petrol unit so if VOSA website has this correct I reckon it can whizz up hills without changing down the gears with no problems.
Ron Mesure
09/09/15 – 07:16
The coach looks all the better for the black on white number plates as in David’s photo, and also appears to have acquired a rear bumper too. Back as nature intended!
Brendan Smith
14/09/17 – 06:51
Regarding the unusual number plate in the picture above, I think all we are seeing is a standard plastic black on yellow plate behind the glass but the yellow has faded which did happen in period to some early plates. Having new correct white on black raised character plates is vastly better!
Richard Leaman
15/09/17 – 06:34
With regard to the engine, 7630cc sounds like the capacity of the Bedford diesel engine fitted to the YRQ. So I reckon that’s what it’s got, and someone has forgotten to change the fuel type in the registration details.
Peter Williamson
16/09/17 – 06:56
675 OCV still has its 300 cu in (4.9 litre) petrol engine. DVLA listing is wrong.
This is a Bedford SBG with a Duple C41F body that has a complicated history. It was first registered on 31 December 1955 as TUE 132, and, from 1 January 1956, went to Hills of Stockingford, near Nuneaton, Warwickshire. The vehicle, chassis number 41422, body number 1060/158, passed to Skills of Nottingham in October 1989. In July 1998 Skills swapped its registration, chassis and body numbers with another Duple bodied SBG registered 6 EBH, chassis number 62553 and body number 1090/150. The purpose of this exercise is perplexing. The former 6 EBH went to John Burton Coaches of Alfreton in June 1999 until scrapped early in 2001. It is unclear how this surviving SB acquired the number 748 UYL. Though originally an SBG (gasoline) example, it now possesses a diesel engine, type uncertain. It currently resides in the car park of a garden centre, “The Walled Garden at Elton Hallâ€, at the village of Elton in Huntingdonshire. Before this it spent its time parked on the side of the main road through the village, as seen in this picture. Internally, the body is completely gutted, though it does not appear that any active restoration is in progress. I acknowledge the flickr site of John Wakefield as the source of this information.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
07/01/16 – 06:27
It acquired the ‘age related’ (748 UYL) when the previous owner transferred 6 EBH off onto his car. The current owner now looks to have changed his plans, its back on sale on the //www.carandclassic.co.uk for £24000 plus VAT Previous owner restored chassis & body exterior leaving the interior to be completed, the seats & interior were sold with coach so presumably in store somewhere.
John Wakefield
07/01/16 – 08:57
Thanks for filling in the last bits of the jigsaw, John. Having seen this Bedford languishing in Elton for some time, I decided to photograph it and send it to OBP to glean some information about it. I then discovered that your flickr site had already identified its unusual history.
Roger Cox
07/01/16 – 08:57
Out of interest, if Skill’s swapped the registration, body number, and chassis number, between the two coaches, how does it come to be known that an exchange of identity took place? Were there obvious differences between the two vehicles? BLOTW gives the original 6 EBH as SB3 – was there any difference between the SBG and SB3 models or was it simply an updating of the code?
David Call
07/01/16 – 11:36
The change was recorded by PSVC & is common knowledge among enthusiasts. There is a difference in age of the vehicles 6 EBH is 1958 & TUE 132 1955. There are small detail differences in the bodies, the front indicator lights for one. TUE has the horizontal ‘tear drop’ type on front corners & 6 EBH had vertical ones set further back. 6 EBH had both windscreen wiper spindles at the bottom of windscreens, TUE 132 has the drivers side in the upper edge. Why Skills did the swop is unclear but presumably to get a nice ‘cherished’ number, I suppose as the vehicles were, to the untrained eye, virtually identical I don’t suppose anyone (including the ministry), noticed. I think by that time 6 EBH was in poor condition & TUE 132 was the better coach. Both the SBG & SB3 had the same 300 cu-in petrol engine, the SBG had a 17ft 2in wheelbase this was lengthened in 1955 to 18ft & became the SB1 (300 diesel) SB3 (300 petrol) or SB5 (330 diesel)
John Wakefield
07/01/16 – 17:08
The SBG (petrol)/SBO (Perkins R6 diesel)) designation continued after the lengthening of the wheelbase in 1955 to 18ft.6in., only becoming SB3 (petrol)/SB1 (Bedford 300 diesel)/SB8 (Leyland 0350 diesel) from 1957. In terms of Duple Super Vegas this occurred part way through the 1074-series of body numbers. The SB5 (Bedford 330 diesel) replaced the SB1 from late 1961, the change taking place during the production of the 1045-series Super Vega.
John Stringer
08/01/16 – 06:47
How legal was this swapping of plates and identity? In this day and age it would be called ‘a ringer’.
Stephen Howarth
08/01/16 – 12:08
Copyright Stuart Johnson
Here is photo of the ‘real’ 6 EBH when with Canham of Whittlesey.
John Wakefield
15/03/16 – 05:44
Roger, any further news on 748 UYL, is it still at the garden centre at Elton? if so maybe you could take another pic.
John Wakefield
17/03/16 – 05:01
Yes, John, it’s still at the garden centre called The Walled Garden at Elton Hall. It hasn’t moved since my original posting in January, and no work on the interior seems to have been undertaken either. This picture was taken on 16 March.
Roger Cox
04/08/16 – 11:18
When I last looked at this Bedford very recently, no work had been done on its gutted interior. It has now gone from the Elton Hall car park.
Roger Cox
20/08/17 – 07:08
748 UYL was at East Coast Upholstery in Pickering on 16/7/17 when I took these photos, it was still there 13/8/17, still no seats, but must be having some fitted!
Michael Davies
01/11/17 – 07:19
I was searching for some sort of picture of this: “Known vehicle: XBH 777 Bedford SBG 46298 1/56 , 5/63, 3/66 Duple C41F (1060/352). New to Jeffways Coaches, High Wycombe, Jeffways and Pilot Coaches, High Wycombe 5/60.” I was very kindly helped to do some research by several people, but a computer problem a year or two ago led to me losing their contact details and some of the explanations that they gave me! Can someone please de-code the bit in quotes for me?? and tell me if this photo would be a good approximation of the vehicle referred to.
Joanna Wheatland
02/11/17 – 06:38
BH 777 Bedford SBG Chassis type-SB Model G= Gasoline (i.e. Petrol engined). 46298 = Bedford Chassis number. 1/56 = Date new. 5/63, 3/66 not known. Duple = Body manufacturer C41F = 41 seater coach with a front entrance. 1060/352 = Duple body number.
David Hick
04/11/17 – 06:49
The answer to the last part of Joanna’s question is yes.
Peter Williamson
04/11/17 – 06:54
Re 748 UYL (TUE 132) I have recently spoken to Neil at Eastgate Coach Trimmers, Pickering (not East Coast Upholstery) he has now recovered the seats & has now to trim out the interior. I asked him who the owner was & he was reluctant to tell me, just that it was a private owner in Essex & he would pass on my contact details. Have heard no more.
John Wakefield
04/03/18 – 06:54
Apparently 748 UYL (TUE 132) is bound for New Zealand. It went from Pickering in early Feb into temp storage in the Peterborough area. The new owner (Brent Cooper) a New Zealand resident. It is not known what use Mr Cooper will make of the SB, possibly part of a vehicle collection. Current NZ Construction & Use regulations do not permit wooded bodied buses & coaches. Readers may remember the saga of OB JAB 867 that went to NZ in 2006 but had to be returned to UK after owner could not get it certified for PSV use. I dont suppose the number plate issue will be relevant to owner now, as it will have to have a new registration when it gets there.
John Wakefield
07/02/20 – 06:22
Coach for sale on ebay 6 Feb. 2020
Dennis Rolls
03/11/20 – 06:18
748 UYL has been spotted on land off the A40 junction with Hanger Lane, London, which had prior to Covid been used to park the fleet of Contiki Holidays.
John Wakefield
16/11/20 – 08:27
My son rode on this Bedford on Saturday 14th November on the E2 (Greenford-Brentford). Any info on why it was being used?
Niall Spencer
12/12/20 – 06:36
Niall Spencer. Are you sure it was this Bedford (748 UYL) that your son rode on? As far as I can see its been untaxed since 1/8/16 and in fact has an export marker showing on the DVLA listing!
Vehicle Details Vehicle make BEDFORD Date of first registration June 1958 Year of manufacture 1958 Cylinder capacity 99999 cc CO2 emissions Not available Fuel type PETROL Euro status Not available Real Driving Emissions (RDE) Not available Export marker Yes Vehicle status Untaxed Vehicle colour GREEN Vehicle type approval Not available Wheelplan NOT RECORDED Revenue weight Not available Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 21 August 2015
John Wakefield
14/12/20 – 07:11
I believe it was this one, as he texted me the reg, knowing I have an interest in buses and coaches. He also said it was an old streamlined green Bedford.
Niall Spencer
15/12/20 – 06:54
Niall I find this very odd, not only is the coach not taxed (all be it free), but it has ‘officially’ been exported. further more it is not insured according to ASKMID! Whilst I am not familiar with the E2 Greenford – Brentford service I find it strange that TfL would allow an old 1955 coach to operate illegally on one of their routes. Had it have done so I am sure someone would have taken a pic and posted it on Facebook etc. Did your son get a photo?
John Wakefield
16/12/20 – 10:55
This isn’t part of the current discussion, but the original picture makes me think of the Matchbox series Bedford SB coach produced in the 1950’s/60’s. I think it was their No.21. The green colour is an almost perfect match. I had eleven of them in my “fleet”, along with the double deckers and trolleybuses from their series. Some survive with in the grand childrens’ box of items. Goodness me, these toys are as old as the real one above!
Michael Hampton
17/12/20 – 11:55
Unfortunately he was on his way to work, as a BTP Police Officer, so was unable to get a pic. He did mention it was a bit of a shock when it stopped at his bus stop and he had to ask if it was the E2. There was a person onboard collecting contactless payments. This is becoming a very interesting occurrence.
Niall Spencer
21/12/20 – 06:59
Niall I have since been in touch with the owner of 748UYL and it was certainly not the vehicle that your son saw on the E2. As I suspected the Bedford has not been on the road! So looks like mistaken identity.
John Wakefield
21/12/20 – 11:38
At least we have got to the bottom of it. Will question him next time I can see him.
539 XTF was a Bedford SB5 with Duple C41F body, and it has been relegated to duty for the Solent Strutters Majorettes group. The registration indicates it was new to an operator in Lancashire in the period 1961 to 1963, depending on the gap between order and delivery (Look, for example, at Lancaster’s 201-203 YTE). We see it in the rally at Netley on 13 July 1986: soon after this it sank to even greater depths with travellers and has since been scrapped. So much is fact, but now we have a question: who was its first operator?
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
17/07/16 – 08:12
New to Barnes, Rawtenstall, Lancashire in March 1962, along with with 540 XTF.
David Hick
18/07/16 – 08:39
Thank you, David. I did wonder if the first operator might have been Battersby/Silver Grey of Morecambe. They had several of this combination (well, SB if not this model).
Pete Davies
29/09/19 – 07:08
539 and 540 XTF were the only Barnes fleet members taken into the Ellen Smith of Rochdale fleet when Smiths took over Barnes business. I think they were retained because they possessed a Leyland engine (Smiths were big Leyland users). Ellen Smith kept them until 1967 and they were replaced by two new Bedford VAM/Plaxton coaches.
Andrew Spriggs
30/09/19 – 06:26
Going back to 539 to 540 XTF, many years ago whilst on hire to Ellen Smith one of their drivers told me each one had a Leyland engine. However the original caption of 539 XTF says its a SB5 which would indicate Bedford’s own engine. A Leyland power unit would indicate them being SB8 or SB13 models. Perhaps some engine swapping has gone on?, we will never know as most of Ellen Smiths drivers I remember from forty years ago who would know have retired from coach driving or sadly passed away.
Here we have another example of what a coat of paint can do to a vehicle’s appearance. In the first view, 103 GAA is in the Southsea rally on 10 June 1990, in the livery of Fishwick, Darlington. She is a Bedford SB5 with Plaxton C41F body from 1963. The second view shows her, back in her original markings (Princess Coaches of West End, Southampton) and she is in Winchester for the King Alfred running day on 27 April 2003.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
04/09/16 – 13:40
No doubt about it, the lower image is much better.
David Wragg
05/09/16 – 06:30
Yes, even before we get down to the wheel trims! Thanks, David.
Pete Davies
05/09/16 – 06:31
Sadly 103 GAA is not in that condition now, it passed from preservation with Brian Guilmant of Southampton in 2004 to Collins of Dartford who left it neglected in a yard at Flexford until recently bought back by Ian Barfoot a descendant of the original owner who I understand plans to restore the coach.
John Wakefield
05/09/16 – 08:04
Thanks, John. Flexford is, I believe, the compound used by the King Alfred preservation group, between Sourhampton and Romsey – unless there’s another one hiding in some obscure part of the map! Ian lives, or used to live, in the Bitterne area of Southampton. His mother asked me to provide a shelter at the family’s local bus stop.
Pete Davies
05/09/16 – 14:55
Indeed Pete, its the North Hills Saw Mills Yard actually listed at Baddesley near Chandlers Ford. Still a lot of old buses in there, along with caravans & other vehicles. I don’t think FoKAB use it much these days
John Wakefield
06/09/16 – 06:24
Two more long term residents at Flexford.
HDL 285 a 1952 ex Southern Vectis Bristol LL5G ECW B39R is another bus that has been in the Flexford yard for a number of years with nothing being done to it other than the occasional new tarpaulin, PSVC list owner as Porter, Chandlers Ford. Crazy that someone should buy a bus, pay rent to store it, & leave it to rot. My picture shows it next to 103 GAA in January 2011, but I have seen a more recent picture of it still there in June this year.
Also still languishing in the yard is very derelict 692 AEH an AEC Reliance Weymann B44F new to Potteries 1957 also seen in Jan 2011. Owner is listed as Paynton of Totton. There was an attempt to rescue this a few years back by someone in the Potteries area, apparently it came to nothing.
John Wakefield
06/09/16 – 08:33
Indeed, John. All we need to do is look at the various preservation sites up and down the country – railway centres as well as bus centres – and note how many of them are able to keep all the items under cover. The percentage is quite small. Until that cover – I don’t mean a tarpaulin! – is in place, the exhibit just rots. Yes, it may be a wonderful opportunity for the preservation group to acquire the only example of its type ever produced – but shouldn’t the covered accommodation be there prior to its arrival on site, rather than being the subject of an appeal? If the money is raised, what is the guarantee the local authority will allow planning permission for the new building?
Pete Davies
29/09/19 – 07:13
692 AEH an AEC Reliance Weymann B44F, has been rescued the Potteries Omnibus Perseveration Society if you take a look at their twitter page.
Mr Anon
15/10/19 – 05:43
103 GAA has apparently now (11/19) been sold by the Barfoot family to someone in the Taunton area for preservation.
With Showbus 2016 just around the corner it is an opportune moment to share this photo of Bedford SB 58898 which carries Duple Vega C41F body number 1090/7. This lovely example of this classic combination was new to Burton Coaches, Haverhill in March 1958 but preserved in the livery of Premier-Albanian Premier Coaches, Watford (see below). Exhibit 608 at Showbus 2015 and entered by Ted Hewitt, the coach shows some seats reversed just behind mid-coach.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson
18/09/16 – 14:51
A minor correction, but the livery is that of Premier Coaches (Watford ) Ltd. Albanian coaches of St.Albans was taken over by Premier in the early 1960’s and the Premier Albanian name first appeared on later style Duple bodied Bedfords. The current seating capacity of LGV 994 is 31 and 2 tables (retained from a 1960’s Duple from the fleet). Originally a 41 seater (as were all such examples in the Premier fleet), only 31 could be repaired to a suitable standard using the original moquette. LGV will not be at Showbus next weekend, but is scheduled to make an appearance at Amberley museum instead.
Ted Hewitt
18/09/16 – 16:18
Many thanks for the additional information Ted. The coach is a credit to you.
Les Dickinson
10/10/16 – 07:14
EFE produced a model of the Premier Watford SB but bearing the registration 243 CUR along with OB LTA 904(that sounds like Western National?)
Patrick Armstrong
25/10/16 – 07:00
243 CUR was new to Premier in 1958 and carried the same body detail as LGV 994 (other ‘butterfly fronts’ in the fleet differed in window and light detail). When liaising with EFE, it was decided that the model should carry the authentic registration rather than LGV, as at that time the latter was in a very poor state at the back of the garage. Interestingly 243 CUR survives with a private owner having spent a large part of its life as a mobile home. LTA 904 was new to Southern National and joined the Premier vintage fleet from Rover of Chesham. It performed film, wedding and excursion duties alongside Leyland PS1/Burlingham bodied ENT 778.
Ted Hewitt
17/05/17 – 11:30
My name is Susan Richardson and my father is Barry Richardson. Our family business was Burton Coaches (Haverhill) Ltd, started by my Grandfather approximately 1949. My Dad has very fond memories of this particular bus – He took his test in it and drove it as a young man. Well, my Dad is 74 in June this year, still bus and coach crazy and still has a PSV licence ! I was thinking it would be a great treat for him to be able to visit this bus and see it up close again – I understand it is owned by Ted Hewitt? Is there any way I could make contact with Ted to ask about arranging this special treat for Dad? I have tried looking for him online, but cannot find anything..:-( Dad and I are still in Haverhill! My fingers are crossed that someone can help me in my quest!
Susan Richardson
18/05/17 – 07:48
There is a Ted Hewitt involved at Premier Coaches which is in Northwood Rickmansworth, about 80 miles from you. I haven’t found a Tel no or email address.
John Lomas
18/05/17 – 07:48
If you go on the Companies House website and search under company officers for Edward Robert Hewitt you will find his address in Chorleywood.
Nigel Turner
19/05/17 – 07:13
The owner is indeed Ted Hewitt & I have put Suzie in touch with him.
NKY 161 started life with Fairways of Bradford in 1957. It is a Bedford SBG with Yeates C41F body. By the time of this view, at Duxford on 24th September 1995, It was with Don’s Coaches Great Dunmow Essex. Great Dunmow is one of the once-delightful villages near Stansted Airport, where many of the residents didn’t want the facility extended. They were ignored, as indeed were the folk twenty or so miles up the road at Lakenheath and Mildenhall who did want to host the third London Airport. Ah, well. It’s called democracy!
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
22/12/16 – 09:27
Dons acquired this from Fairway when it was only two or three years old. Dons sold it for preservation (in the 1970s?) but later reacquired it. I only met Don Hale once but I would agree with the comment on the company website that he was a true gentleman. The business continues, now in the hands of Steve Harvey whose family had been associated with the business for many years.
Nigel Turner
22/12/16 – 10:02
It may be the camera angle, or perhaps its the body style, but compared to say a Duple or Plaxton from the same era, it looks very narrow, is it a 7’6″ chassis? A handsome beast none the less.
Ronnie Hoye
22/12/16 – 10:46
Thanks for your thoughts, Nigel and Ronnie. I’m not sure if it is a narrow chassis, but I am sure that someone among the readership will complete our education in this matter. Certainly, there have been comments in the past about the features of a Yeates body and I wonder if it’s just a bit taller than Duple or Plaxton to accommodate all that brightwork!
Pete Davies
25/12/16 – 06:24
The SB chassis were all the same size, the distance across the rear (double) wheels being 7ft 3 7/16″ It was the bodies that were different widths. In the case of NKY 161 it is an 8ft wide body. Its the height that makes it look narrow. Incidentally this is one of only 5 Yeates Europa’s known by me to survive on a Bedford SB chassis. The others are: 5200 AH part restored with Kenzie, Shepreth WWX 48 derelict with Kenzie for spares 618 KRA under restoration with Chambers, Derbyshire JEP 861 a caravan with Cook, Corton, Suffolk
107 GYC is a Bedford SB3 with Duple C41F body, new to Bowerman, Taunton, in 1960. In this view, it is in Lodmoor Car Park, Weymouth, showing “Berrys” in the indicator box and visiting the annual rally, although it doesn’t appear to be taking part in it. I have recollections of submitting this in the past, but it hasn’t been published (possibly as too dark) but I have a new editor now, and I’ve managed to lighten it! The date is 1 July 1979.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
22/01/17 – 13:03
(pic by ‘Showtrac’ via Flickr).
Bedford SB3 Duple Super Vega, 107 GYC passed to Andrew Hall, Winkhill by 1997 & then to current owner Roger Chambers of Bristol for preservation in 9/05, pic taken just prior to the move to Roger Chambers.
Sister vehicle 108 GYC also new to Bowerman, was last known with Redwoods of Hemyock. My pic shows it withdrawn in a barn at the rear of Brian Redwood’s bungalow in April 2004. Is it still there? Both coaches had 7ft 6in wide bodies for the narrow Devon lanes.
John Wakefield
23/01/17 – 07:36
What a superb preservation of a grand unpretentious vehicle. My admiration of Bedford/Duple coaches knows no bounds – they “did what it says on the tin” and grand style and with no empty embellishments.
Chris Youhill
26/01/17 – 10:28
I have recently spoken to Redwoods & they still have 108 GYC in the shed as in my pic above. They have no plans to sell it at this time.
John Wakefield
28/04/18 – 07:47
That SB showing Doone Valley may have been ridden in by me, as it was a regular summer afternoon ride on Berrys from Taunton, including up Porlock Hill, along the narrow lanes to the Doone Valley Farm for tea, then Lynmouth (adults into the pub), and home immediately up Countisbury Hill. The old Bedfords just engaged bottom gear and wound up the A39 1 in 4 gradients. It was a bit difficult for the cars behind on the steep hills who couldn’t quite manage the slow walking pace on the uphill.
