Tynemouth and District 1949 AEC Regent III Northern Coachbuilders H30/26R
Eight of these splendid AEC Regent III were among the 1949 intake. By 1951, the size of the name had been considerably reduced; this would also be around the time these were due for their first repaint, so my guess would be that the photo was taken roughly 1950 or thereabouts. As things turned out, they would be the last new AEC double deckers to enter service at Percy Main, with the next four intakes all being Guy Arabs, although AEC remained the preferred choice for single deck vehicles and coaches. After the intake at the beginning of 1940, no new vehicles were allocated to Percy Main until 1946. During the war several vehicles were requisitioned by the Ministry of Transport or transferred to other depots within the NGT group, to make matters worse, the bodies on all the NGT group forward entrance Short Brothers AEC Regent I’s, had developed serious structural faults at the leading edge of the doors, by 1943, they had deteriorated to such an extent that special permission was granted to have them rebodied, presumably as utilities. Northern Coachbuilders carried out the work at their Cramlington works. The H26/24R Short Bros and H28/24R Brush bodied AEC Regent I’s from 1931 and 1932 seem to have lasted somewhat better, they were rebodied in 1945. They were also done by NCB, but at Claremont Road in Newcastle. Once rebodied 42 – 51 – 79/80/81 & 89 all returned to Percy Main, the remainder were reallocated to other depots and renamed and numbered, but retained their original registrations. The years between 1946 and 1949 saw a frenzy of activity, with no less than 52 new vehicles arriving at Percy Main, bear in mind that the total fleet was around 120 vehicles, of which about 18 were coaches.
New vehicles were:- 1946 – 123/127 – FT 5623/5627 – H56R Northern Counties Guy Arab II G5LW. 1947 – 128/142 – FT 5698/5712 – H30/26R Weymann AEC Regent II – 141/142 carried the Wakefields name. 1948 – 143/156 – FT 6143/6156 – H30/26R Weymann AEC Regent II – 155/156 carried the Wakefields name. 1949 – 157/164 – FT 6557/6564 – H30/26R Northern Coachbuilders AEC Regent III – 157/158 carried the Wakefields name. 165/174 – FT 6565/6574 – H30/26R Pickering Guy Arab II.
In addition, 18 pre war vehicles were rebodied in 1949 and returned to the depot, they were:- 93/95 – FT 4220/4222 – 1938 H26/26F Weymann AEC Regent I – Rebodied by Pickering as H30/26R: 1957 sold to Provincial as replacements for vehicles destroyed in garage fire, finally withdrawn 1964. 96/103; FT 4496/4503: 1938 H26/26F Weymann Leyland TD5 – Rebodied H30/26R Northern Coachbuilders MK 3. 1939 – 111/112 – FT 4941/4942 / 1940 – 114 – FT 5224 – 117/118; FT 5227/5228 – 119/120; FT 5262/5263 – All B38F Brush AEC Regal – Rebodied B38F Pickering.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye
07/05/14 – 12:26
I think this looks a very handsome vehicle, Ronnie. These NCB bodies always remind me very much – if you cover up the very obviously different front ends – to the Park Royal-bodied Regent III’s of my local operator Halifax Corporation/JOC. Bradford had some very similar to these, and Huddersfield JOC had some lowbridge ones. They appeared to develop quite a degree of body sag though and pictures of many of them a few years on show a distinct downward curve in the waistrail (I know how they must have felt!). A nice straight forward, yet cheerful livery and an impressive gold shaded fleetname. Looks just right.
John Stringer
07/05/14 – 17:36
Sheffield had quite a number of these NCB bodies – 10 each on Daimler CVD6 and Crossley DD42 chassis and 2 lots of 10 on AEC Regent III chassis. The final 10 were of a slightly more modern appearance, and I thought they were rather handsome. I agree with you entirely, John, about the Halifax Park Royals – but I actually think the front has an echo of the classical Weymann front. They were, however, as you say, quite dire, with their pronounced body sag which I assume was for the usual reason of unseasoned timber – being all they could get, even in the early post-war period. The first lot of Regents were included in the green repaint experiments – which was an unmitigated disaster. One assumes that the quality of the timber had improved by the time of the Newcastle “ECW clones”. NCB closed shortly after but Roe’s bought all the machinery AND the timber from the receivers.
David Oldfield
07/05/14 – 17:36
Mention of the AEC Regent III /NCBs for Bradford Corporation (524 – 543; 1947/48) by John has made me think there were several variants of the AEC Regent III. Bradford specified the 9.6 litre engine and the pre-selector transmission, whilst some BET Companies preferred the 7.7 litre engine and the crash gearbox. What was the specification Ronnie of the Tynemouth and District AEC Regent III posted above? When new these buses were splendid sight as shown above and the body fitted well on many other similar types of chassis such as the Leyland PD, Daimler CV and Guy Arab III.
Richard Fieldhouse
They were 7.7 with a crash box, Richard. So far as I am aware, the NGT group never had any pre select half cabs, there were certainly none at Percy Main, and the only semi auto half cabs were the Routemasters. Newcastle Corporation had some very similar NCB bodied Regent III, although they were slightly different under the windscreen, I think they were pre select. Obviously they were double fronted, but they also had 4 and 6 wheel trolleybuses with this style of body (501 is in preservation) As I remember, these and the Newcastle Regents were outlasted by the Weymann bodied Regent 11 from 1947 and 1948, perhaps they developed the body sag problems mentioned. SDO had some Regent III with ROE bodies, they were later transferred to Northern, and lasted until about 1965 or so.
Ronnie Hoye
08/05/14 – 07:51
‘Bus Lists on the Web’ shows the Tynemouth and District Regent IIIs as type 9612A, which, if correct, gives them 9.6 litre engines and crash gearboxes.
Peter Williamson
08/05/14 – 08:11
I stand corrected, Peter. The 1947/48 Regent II were 7.7, and most of the 1949 Pickering bodied Guy Arab III, which came with Meadows engines were later converted to AEC 7.7, but these may well have been 9.6 units, so perhaps spares may have been another reason why they were withdrawn before the Regent II and the Guy’s.
Newcastle Corporation 1947 AEC Regent III Roe H31/25R
Before the D.V.L.A. It seems to have been common practice that local authorities would issue registrations to bus companies En-block which would then be allocated as and when required, as a result, vehicles which were two or three years apart could have registrations which were numerically quite close. Unfortunately, I do not have access to their fleet records, but Newcastle Corporation would seem to be a good example of this. Newcastle registrations were BB – TN or VK. Post war motor vehicles were AEC, Daimler and the all Leyland Titans, bodies came from a number of sources including, Massey. MCW. Northern Coachbuilders, Park Royal Vehicles, Roe and Weymann, then of course there was the trolleybus fleet. I am speculating here, but it would appear they had most of the registrations between KVK 950 or thereabouts, and LVK 140 ish, but they were allocated between 1947 and 1949. My information suggests that among that number were three 1947 AEC Regent III with H31/25R Roe bodies KVK 984/6 – 84/6. Sorry, I don’t have any further details, I know Newcastle Corporation Transport had some pre-select Daimlers, but I’m inclined to think that these were a 7.7 litre with a crash box. 86 is shown here in its original 1947 blue, and again in the post 1949 yellow livery which had previously been the sole preserve of the trolleybus fleet. The Roe body was one of those timeless classics that would look good in almost any livery. I rather think that as well as those bodied by Roe, the MCW bodied Daimlers also had a window on the stairs, but if memory serves, at some stage they were all either removed or painted out.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye
20/11/14 – 11:43
Birmingham (JOJ) and Glasgow (FYS and SGD) reserved large blocks of registrations which were issued over several years. Almost all the FYS block was issued to buses and trolleybuses over the years 1949 to 1958, followed by SGD 1958 to 1964, when the year-letter phase began. Devon issued LTA registrations to Western/Southern National for buses new between 1949 and 1953.
Geoff Kerr
21/11/14 – 06:37
In Leeds while the buses were registered in blocks there was never a special series for them On the other hand all the city council ambulances were given the registration — 999! In complete contrast West Yorkshire never used blocks of registrations even for a single batch of buses being quite content to take what the licensing office offered and if the number matched the fleet number it was very definitely good luck and not good management!
Chris Hough
21/11/14 – 10:20
Nottingham (after WW2 but not before) invariably had blocks of reg numbers that corresponded to the fleet numbers. All were in the KTV series until the big fleet of 72 Regent/Park Royals, supplied in 1953/54, took OTV 127-198, assuming the fleet numbers of Regents supplied 1934-36. Even then there was clearly some agreement with the licensing authority, since these followed on neatly from the 1949 series of Regent/Metro-Cammells KTV 97-126, which in turn took on fleet numbers previously carried by defunct 1931 Regents.
Stephen Ford
21/11/14 – 15:23
Portsmouth Corporation seemed to use whatever registrations were available in the pre-war and early post-war period. I suspect that the 1939 Leyland Cheetahs were numbered 41-46 to coincide with the allocated registrations BBK941-946. Post-war, Crossley DD42/5T No 28 was also coincidentally registered EBK 28. The others of the batch (EBK 23-27) carried numbers 11-15. The Corporation was “gap-filling” it’s number series at this stage. In the 1950’s, the Corporation had a policy of booking registrations in batches in ending 999. Thus we had 25 PD2s GTP 975-999 (58-82, 1952); 25 PD2s LRV 975-999 (83-107, 1956; 15 PD2s ORV 985-999 (108-122, 1958); 5 PD3s STP 995-999 (123-127, 1959), and 10 Tiger Cubs TTP 990-999 (16-25, 1959). After this the Corporation booked registrations that matched the fleet numbers in what was becoming the “normal fashion” across the industry from the 1960s (although I accept it wasn’t universal practice). As referred to above, it was usually ambulances or fire engines that had a “999” registration, not buses. The buses registered with a “999” didn’t go any faster than the rest, but 122 had a different and marvellous sounding exhaust note during it’s early life – certainly until c.1964/65 – very sporty! .
Michael Hampton
21/11/14 – 17:44
The West Yorkshire Road Car Company did use year block registrations in the period 1934 to 1939 and again from 1946 to 1956. An example for 1935 illustrates the method used. YG 8968 – 9015 registration marks were used for Dennis Lancet 1, Dennis Ace, Bristol G05G and Bristol J05G types. Another example used in 1952/53 were LWR 405 – 435 registration marks issued for a Bedford van, Bristol LS6G, Bristol KSW6B, Bristol KSW6G and Bristol LS5G types. Other letter groups with mixed bus types were BWT, CWT, DWU, EWY, FWX, GWX, JWU, JYG, KWU and OWX. I have omitted AWW as one mark missing in the sequence was AWW 160. After 1956 this practice of mixed bus types in registration groups ceased and shorter runs as described by Chris H were then the norm.
Richard Fieldhouse
22/11/14 – 08:58
I remember in 1967 Nottinghamshire used a block of registrations across 3 companies which as a youngster I thought unusual. SRB 59F to SRB 65F Mansfield District Lodekkas, SRB 66/67F Midland General REs, SRB 68F to SRB 80F Midland General Lodekkas, SRB 81F to SRB 90F Chesterfield Corporation Panthers. Mansfield District and Midland General were linked so possibly you could argue it was 2 companies. Does anybody remember anything similar elsewhere?
David Hargraves
22/11/14 – 14:05
Interesting, David – especially as Chesterfield is in Derbyshire! I wonder if the Panthers were an order that was actually diverted to Chesterfield for some reason?
Stephen Ford
22/11/14 – 16:37
In 1967 wasn’t RB a Derbyshire registration? It only became Nottinghamshire later.
KC
22/11/14 – 17:17
‘RB’ was a Derbyshire mark, and the Chesterfield Panthers naturally received Derbyshire registrations. Midland General/Notts & Derby vehicles were registered in Derbyshire up to c.1972, then Derby CBC in 1973/4 (was this after the Trent ‘takeover’?), then Nottingham LVLO. Mansfield & District vehicles were registered in Derbyshire from 1967 to at least 1970. Interestingly, the Chesterfield Panthers were fleet numbers 81-90, following on from Roadliners 71-80, so it may have been the Panthers which somehow dictated the above sequence. I am sure there would have been many more instances of bus registrations following on from one fleet to another, not least because bus and coach registrations once constituted a much higher proportion of the total than they do now. Off the top of my head I recall that (c.1950) DRN241-90 were Ribble 1301-50 and DRN291-310 Preston 8-27 (all PD2s); DRN341-54 were Ribble 284-97 (Sentinels) and DRN355-67 were Scout (Royal Tigers, PD2s, and a Bedford). Don’t forget that there was ostensibly no corporate connection between Ribble and Scout in those days.
David Call
23/11/14 – 06:39
Newcastle Taxation Office allocated reversed JVK exclusively for Newcastle Corporation Transport buses and other municipal vehicles. The mark was first issued in November 1959 and remained in use until December 1963. Newcastle commenced suffix marks on 2 January, 1964. One of the most intriguing registration features was Liverpool which issued FKF to Liverpool City Transport buses covering the D, E and G suffix.
Kevin Hey
23/11/14 – 09:32
Newcastle Corporation in fact had a pretty good record of matching registrations and panel numbers, as they called them, but only from 1937 onwards. That year saw the arrival of 174-95, Daimler COG5s with MCCW, NCB or EEC (low-bridge) bodies, registered FVK 174-95. The practice continued up to 244 then fell away a little for numbers 245-50, utility-bodied vehicles delivered in 1942 and 1943 as JTN 505/6, JTN 607/8 (Guy Arabs) and JTN 619/20 (Daimler CWG5s). A new numbering series started from 1 in 1945 but single and double digit registration numbers generally weren’t used. Buses up to 86 had three-digit registration numbers, with the last one or two digits matching the panel numbers. Perhaps in those days there was already a demand for ‘cherished’ low number plates for the few who could afford a posh car to go with them and had the influence to fix it when registering their vehicles! 1 to 86 were registered JVK 421-5, JVK 613-58 and KVK 959-86. Note the gap 6 to 12, more of which anon. From no. 87 onwards the numbers were synchronised. It’s not really the case that use of the KVK 9xx series was spread over several years. It only covered 3 batches of vehicles in the 59-86 range (59-72 the fourteen Birmingham-style CVG6s, 73-83 eleven more CVG6s with Roe bodies and 84-6 the three Regent/Roes you refer to). These were delivered out of sequence; the two Roe bodied batches in mid-1947 and the Birminghams in mid-1948. More interesting in terms of variety is the 13-58 range, covering no fewer than five batches, all registered JVK 613-58 and delivered between December 1945 and June 1946. Eighteen of these, 41-58, were the single-deckers required for tram replacement on the Scotswood-Throckley route where the narrow and fragile road bridges at Lemington, from which the trams had long been diverted, precluded the use of double-deckers. Of these, eight were Guy Arab 5LWs with Massey bodies (51-58) so that’s another marque to add to your list! 41-50 were AEC Regal/Harringtons. Here’s an undated pic of Regal 41 or 44 on what looks like an inspection visit to Sugley Bridge at Lemington. I think that’s a Regent/Park Royal semi-utility of the 37-40 batch lurking in a side street. All those buildings in the background still exist.
As regards 84-6, I THINK that they might have been part of the small number (70?) of London Transport RT specification chassis released to provincial operators in 1946/7. 84-86 had the RT chassis designation 0961. Provincial Regent IIIs were allocated 0961/2 in 1947, later to become 9612. See Non London Transport RTs for more background. Here’s a higher resolution zoom-in of your shot of 86 showing the gear pre-selector just below the steering wheel. Squint and you’ll see it!
All in all Newcastle took delivery of 245 motor buses (1-11/3-136, 164-73, 251-350) and 186 trolleybuses (443-628) from 1946-1950, enabling a clear-out of many pre-war vehicles and of course the last of the trams in 1950. Note that the new panel number series that started in 1945 had reached 136 by 1948 but with a further 100 buses due for delivery in 1949 and 1950 the 60 or so surviving pre-war vehicles (147-250, with gaps) would have required re-numbering. This was avoided by switching back to the original 1-250 series and using 251 to 350 for the 1949/50 deliveries, with 164-73 (see question 2 below) later becoming 364-73 when new AEC Regent Vs arrived in 1956. You‘ve guessed it – the AECs were numbered 137 onwards! Just to spoil the story, 351-3 (PD2/Orions) had appeared in 1954 as UTN 851-3.
Now, can anyone help with a couple of questions:
1. Why was there a gap from 6 to 12 in the post-war panel number series? Newcastle had managed in 1945 to acquire five Daimler CWA6 chassis numbered 1-5 (JVK 421-5) and fitted them with second-hand pre-war bodies in 1945/6/7, then re-bodied all five at Mann Egerton in 1950. The next new vehicles to arrive after 1-5, in late 1945, were numbered 13 onwards. The 6-12 gap was eventually partially filled four years later in 1949 when six all-Leyland low-bridge deckers arrived, being numbered 6-11 and somehow acquiring matching registrations LVK 6-11. Was a batch cancelled before delivery c1945 that might have become 1-12 (or 6-12) and if so what were the details?
2. What was the reason for the arrival in 1948 of the odd batch of Daimler CVD6s single-deckers with Willowbrook bodies, numbered out-of-range as 164-73 (LTN 464-73)? These were diverted from local independent Venture who had already ordered 60 of this combination. The 164-73 range matched that of the ten pre-war Daimler COS4 single deckers (the S designated locally manufactured Armstrong-Saurer engines) that had been transferred to United AS in 1938 with the Branch End set of services, thus creating a convenient panel number gap. Given the eighteen single deckers that arrived in 1946 why were ten more acquired so soon
Tony Fox
23/11/14 – 11:40
Many local taxation offices used 1-99 for motor bikes or local authority vehicles. North Western had LDB 701-LDB 800 allocate in January 1957 and used LDB800 in mid 1960 by which time Stockport was issuing RDB, again NWRC. was allocated a batch which took about 20 months to use. Manchester Corporation was allocated JND 601-JND 800 in the autumn of 1948. JND 751-JND 800 were used between 10/48 and 02/49 on a batch of Crossleys. JND 601-JND 700 appeared on a batch of PD2s split between MCW and Leyland bodies between 05/51 and 02/52. In the meantime, JNA 401-JNA 500 had appeared on a batch of MCW bodied PD1s between 01/49 and 05/49! JND 701-JND 750 were allocated to a batch of Daimler CVG6s, bodied by MCW which arrived between 09/50 and 03/51. In 1953 Manchester received the allocation of NNB 101-NNB 299. NNB 101-118 and 120-125 were placed on a variety of Northern Counties bodied Royal Tigers. 119 and 126-129 were not used. The buses were delivered between 05/53 and 10/53. NNB 130-NNB 135 were also Royal Tigers with Bond and Burlingham airport coaches, delivered 08/53 -10/53. NNB 140-NNB 169 were PD2s with NCME bodies delivered between 11/53 and 06/54. Previously NNB 170-NNB 209 had arrived between 07/53 and 10/53 as PD2s with Leyland bodies. NNB 210-NNB 299 were Daimler CVG6s split between 80 MCW unique to Manchester bodies and 10 MCW Orion bodies delivered between 11/53 and 02/55. The unused NNB 136-NNB 139 eventually appeared in August 1956 on Tiger Cubs with Burlingham airport coach bodies. After this, registration batches were requested once a delivery date was firmed up so registrations were very much in date. There was one last glitch. Fleet lines 4701-4760 should have been delivered as DNF 701C-DNF 760C in 1965. Late delivery meant that only 4701-4706 arrived in 1965. 4707-4712 arrived in January 1966 and 4713-4730 arrived in February. The registrations had already been allocated so the vehicles were all taxed in December 1965. The delays continued and 4731-4760 were then allocated FNE 731D-FNE 760D. 4731-4740 all arrived in December 1966. 4741-4760 were not delivered until January 1967 but were taxed in December 1966 to avoid a registration change.
Phil Blinkhorn
24/11/14 – 06:40
I bought a car back in the mists of time and asked for a “nice” number: so the dealer just phoned the taxation office and said “Can I have a motorcycle number please” and there we were…
Joe
24/11/14 – 06:42
Stockport Taxation office allocated DB 5000-5299 to North Western Road Car Co. issued over the period February, 1924 to March, 1929. This was followed by the block DB 9301-9500 between March, 1929 and March, 1932. Stockport completed the general DB sequence in 1930 and this superseded by JA.
Kevin Hey
25/11/14 – 06:39
On the other side of the Irish Sea, Coras Iompair Eireann frequently booked big blocks of Dublin registrations, as did its predecessor the Dublin United Tramways Company. Between 1937 and 1940, the DUTC booked four blocks of ZC registrations totalling 250, as follows: *ZC 701-750: Leyland Lion LT7 (fleet nos. N91-103) and Titan TD4 (R1-37) *ZC 3751-3800: Titan TD4 (R38-50) and TD5 (R51-87) *ZC 6601-6700: Titan TD5 (R88-187) *ZC 8851-8900: Titan TD5 (R188-234) and TD7 (R235-7) In 1948 and 1949, CIÉ booked two blocks of ZH registrations totalling 230: *ZH 4440-4539: Titan PD2 (R291-390) *ZH 6301-6430: Tiger OPS3 (P31-160) However, P47 ended up being registered ZJ 1182 instead of ZH 6317. I’m guessing it did not enter service as soon as it was delivered, but was instead stored for some time beforehand. Three blocks of ZJ registrations totalling 230 were booked during 1949 and 1950: *ZJ 1351-1400: Titan PD2 (R391-440) *ZJ 4405-4454: Titan OPD2 (R441-90) *ZJ 5901-6030: Tiger OPS3 (P161-290) P242 ended up being registered ZO 9646 instead of ZJ 5982 – again, I’m guessing it was stored for some time before entering service. A single block of 163 registrations in the ZO series was booked in 1953: *ZO 6801-6963: Tiger PS2 (P291-361), Royal Tiger PSU1 (U1-88) and Titan OPD2 (R541-4) When three-letter registrations were introduced in 1954, CIE became somewhat modest – booking in blocks of only 70 until 1958… *JRI 11-80: Titan OPD2 (R581-650) *BIK 251-320: Titan OPD2 (R651-720) *OIK 925-994: Titan OPD2 (R729-98) *CYI 601-670: Titan OPD2 (R799-833) and PD3 (RA1-35) …then in blocks of just 60 until 1961. *OYI 801-860: Titan PD3 (RA36-95) *CZA 661-720: Leopard L2 (E1-60) *HZA 221-280: Titan PD3 (RA96-152) and AEC Regent V (AA1-3) However, in 1964, it booked EZH 1-255 for its first C-class Leopard PSU3s, which became the first vehicles to carry matching registrations. Then in 1966, it booked its biggest block, VZI 1-340, for its first D-class Atlanteans. In 1967, it booked EZL 1-230 for its first SS-class Bedford VAS5 and SB5 school buses. PZO 261-522 were booked in 1968 for SS261-522, followed by UZU 523-646 in 1969 for SS523-646. Reversed registrations began in 1970, and CIE wasted no time in booking 1-213 IK for its M-class Leopard PSU5s, and 341-410 IK for Atlanteans D341-410. In 1972, 411-554 ZD were booked for D411-554, and in 1973 701-770 ZI and 603-753 ZO were booked for SS701-70 and D603-753 respectively. By this time, CIE’s relationship with Leyland was deteriorating, and so a lull followed until the tie-up with Bombardier and GAC. In 1981, 2-201 JZL were booked for Bombardier double-deckers KD2-201, followed by 202-300 OZU in 1982 for KD202-300. Finally, in 1985, EZV 2-120 were booked for GAC rural buses KR2-120 (the ZV code had been allocated to Dublin in 1981 along with SI, ZG and ZS, as it was running out of registrations featuring its original codes). By then, the current year-county-serial registration system was on the horizon, as was the transfer of CIE’s bus operations to Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann.
Des Elmes
13/04/19 – 06:08
Bit late to this discussion on registration numbers but a bit of information on Burys numbers. Until the 1949-50 batch of PD2/4s were delivered the fleet numbers and registrations did not match. This group of 25 buses were 151 to 175 and the registration numbers were EN 9551 to 9555 and 9956 to 9975. From them on the fleet and registrations matched with the next ones being BEN 176 to 186,the single Deckers were then numbered in a separate series, the AEC Reliances being 81 to 86 and registered FEN 81 to 86. The numbers continued to match until the year suffix letters were added which started with C as Bury didn’t use A or B letters. The 1965 Fleetlines were AEN 832 to 837C, which were 132 to 137. Finally,at the very end of its existence in 1969 a new numbering series started at 1 with Atlanteans 1-3 being KEN 231-3G.
Sheffield Corporation 1949 AEC Regent III 9612E Craven H30/26R
A pair of withdrawn Craven bodied Regent III are evident in this picture taken on the parking area behind East Bank Garage in May 1966. Further along the row is another one with the front number plate in the raised position (presumably to reduce accidental damage). The next in line to the Cravens pair is 431, a 1950 Northern Coachbuilders bodied Regent III, note a similar bus just visible at the extreme right contrasting the grey and cream painted roofs. The same applies to the two all Leyland PD2/1 that can be seen. This area was the gathering ground for withdrawn buses pending being towed away by one of the Barnsley scrap dealers.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
25/01/15 – 10:57
Thanks for posting this gem Ian. As a boy, I would cycle from Birley to see the latest line-up on the roof of Eastbank garage (the journey back up could be a challenge). I’m surprised to see that the fleet numbers have not been blacked out in the traditional fashion. Any chance of a larger picture?
Les, I suspect these had only recently been withdrawn. May 1966 would have been when large numbers of Atlantean PDR1/2 with Park Royal or Neepsend bodies were entering service. To the best of my knowledge fleet numbers etc were always painted out prior to collection for scrap. Cycling up East bank Road?? No thank you!
Ian Wild
31/01/15 – 06:30
The very handsome locally built Cravens Regents were well thought of in Sheffield with some giving 18 years service in the city. Here’s 231 of the 1949 delivery looking splendid when new in the manufacturer’s official photo.
John Darwent
01/02/15 – 06:55
Today’s “stylists” and image-mongers and dreamers-up of nightmare liveries could learn a lot from this dignified vehicle.
Ian T
01/02/15 – 09:17
Oh, how I concur with your opinion, Ian. Fairly locally to me, Norfolk Green had a smart, traditionally applied livery in contrasting shades of green. Since the Stagecoach takeover the livery (and the service reliability) has plummeted to abysmal levels. The front three quarters is now a ‘swooped’ grey, followed by vestigial traces of green. The immediate impression on approach is of a military vehicle. One half expects the destination to display “Rations – No Lifts”.
W Alexander & Sons (Midland) Ltd 1951 AEC Regent III 09612E Alexander L27/26R
Although Alexanders purchased significant numbers of Regals and Reliances, they only purchased one batch of 20 double deck buses from AEC, all of which joined the Midland fleet when the company split into three. As with virtually all the double deckers bought new by Alexanders post war, it has an own-build lowbridge body, and this batch was among the first to carry the new style with a rounded dome compared with the slightly angular earlier style based on the Leyland design. MRC8 is seen here parked up at Stirling Bus Station on 4 November 1969, and carries a Bannockburn depot plate. It also displays the then relatively new style of “Midland” fleetname, replacing the traditional Alexander style. The traditional Alexander smartness belies 18 years of service; by this stage many of its fellows had already been withdrawn. The other feature of this bus is that it represents “A is for . . .” for chassis, body and operator, and therefore represents a fitting introduction to a presentation I am giving at the Leicester Transport Historical Trust meeting in Leicester on Saturday 11th April 2015. This is entitled Alphabet Soup, featuring British buses from A to Z in the late 60s/early 70s. Within the alphabet, the main emphasis will be on chassis and body manufacturers, with operator names filling in the gaps, and I shall be highlighting as far as possible unusual rather than standard products. LTHT meetings are held at the New Walk Museum in Leicester, starting at 10 a.m. www.ltht.org.uk/monthly%20meetings.htm
Photograph and Copy contributed by Alan Murray-Rust
10/04/17 – 06:42
The ‘Midland’ (BMMO-style) fleetname is actually the third version to be used after the Alexander company split. The first was an underlined scroll similar to that used originally by Fife and Northern. They then reverted to the traditional Alexander style, but emphasising MidlanD as the middle line rather than AlexandeR. These 20 chassis were diverted from a Scottish Omnibuses order – recompense for the rubbish transferred from SO with the Dundee area perhaps?
Huddersfield Corporation 1955 AEC Regent III East Lancs H33/28R
Arriving at the Piece Hall, Halifax, for the Heart of the Pennines Rally of October 2011 is Huddersfield 178. This is AEC Regent III 9613E 4927, bearing East Lancs body number 5107. This bus was new to Huddersfield in June 1955.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson
25/07/15 – 06:15
Lovely picture. This style of East Lancs body was much more common on the Leyland PD2 and was especially popular with a host of Lancashire municipalities usually with exposed radiator. Rochdale had five virtually identical Regent III’s and Bradford had some similar but with the Birmingham style tin fronts. The Huddersfield livery just exudes class with such a splendid shade of red.
Philip Halstead
26/07/15 – 06:38
Thanks Phil, Given the level of loyalty of many West Riding area operators to Roe, I wonder what caused Huddersfield to go to ‘the dark side’ for these? I think these exposed-rad Regents looked so much better than those with the ‘Birmingham style’ fronts.
Les Dickinson
27/07/15 – 06:45
On the subject of exposed radiators, I think most of us nowadays prefer them to “tin fronts” on buses of this era, but at the time, I’m not so sure. Personally I was very impressed with all things enclosed, but then, I was just coming up to my ninth birthday when 178 was delivered, so my views probably wouldn’t count for much. I think the point is that because of the total revolution in the appearance of single-deckers and coaches which had recently occurred, there would be a widespread feeling that exposed radiators belonged on yesterday’s buses, and today’s buses needed a different look. Now of course we look on old buses with reverence, so an exposed radiator denotes a thoroughbred, and any attempt to disguise it detracts from its appeal.
Peter Williamson
28/07/15 – 05:48
A couple of items to note about 178, firstly we reactivated it (along with a couple of similar buses with valid CoFs) in September 1973 to allow the loan of some PD3As to Sheffield to help out in one of their vehicle crises. Secondly, shortly after the PTE was formed in April 1974 my ex boss, by then in Engineering charge at Bradford borrowed 178 and similar to help with a vehicle crisis there. I don’t recall 178 returning to Huddersfield and may have stayed with Bradford until withdrawal.
Eastbourne Corporation 1951 AEC Regent III 9613A Bruce H30/26R
This AEC Regent III 9613A with Bruce H56R body was new in 1951 and our first view shows her inside the bus depot. Actually, that isn’t where we see her, as any Eastbourne enthusiast might tell you! She is, in fact, passing through the garage area at the back of Winchester Bus Station whilst taking part in the King Alfred Running Day on 1 January 2012. The second view shows her fleetname and crest.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
29/10/15 – 06:36
Thank you Pete Davies for letting us see this picture of Eastbourne Corporation, Fleet No.42 – AHC 442. This bus brings back happy memories of my time at Derby Borough/City Transport from 1975 to 1980. Why I hear you ask, should an Eastbourne Corporation bus remind me of Derby, as they never operated such vehicles. Well the answer is this. At that time, 42, was owned by the late Gerald Truran the Chief Engineer at Derby, and was garaged at either Ascot Drive Depot or Osmaston Road Depot, depending on where there was space for it. During the Summer months of the Rally season, we used to take it to many a rally, and I used to share the Driving with Gerald. It was a superb bus to drive, the Driving position was second to none and Gerald kept it in first class condition, and it could achieve a fair turn of speed, (not just downhill), and the gearbox, once mastered, was a delight in itself. The body and paint work were superb and I recall leaving a few rally fields with silverware on board. I left Derby in June 1980 to work at Darlington Corporation Transport, and whilst we had our own Daimler deckers still in service they were not the same as that AEC. I never saw 42 again until a couple of years ago,when I was at the Worthing Seafront Bus Rally, and whilst I was allowed on board to take a few pictures, permission was not forth coming to climb up into the cab to sample that pleasure again (simple things please and amuse old Busmen). It is nice to see her again if only in print, and brings back happy times, not just driving her, but of my 5+ years at Derby.
Stephen Howarth
29/10/15 – 15:45
A bit of serendipity as this picture comes on the day that I had a query from an ex-colleague as to whether there are still any instances of bus garages being used as bus stations. This arose from some pictures of Worksop where a new bus station has recently replaced the stands outside the former East Midland MS garage which doubled for many years as the town’s bus station. (I would have uploaded my shot of Tiger Cub R39 in this location except that it would more or less duplicate this existing picture on this site at //www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/?p=2817) I get the impression that at Winchester the stands are not inside the main building, but does anyone know of anywhere where a building is still shared by garage and passenger facilities?
Alan Murray-Rust
29/10/15 – 17:14
What memories there are in this photo as I began my 42 years on the buses with Eastbourne Corporation at Churchdale road depot in August 1961. In those days everyone started as a conductor and when the chance arose went on to the driving school, undertaken in your own time, where Leyland PD1/Bruce No 15 JK 9113 awaited your tender touch. Having passed my test at the first attempt in April 1962 I progressed to the drivers roster after some tuition on the various different types then in the fleet which of course included the Regent III’s like No 42. At that time they were often referred to as the “Hampden Park” buses as they were used almost solely on the 7, 7a, 9 and 9a routes which were tightly timed and interworked as their lively performance was a great help with time keeping which made them very popular with all drivers and one of everyone’s favourites. I have to agree with all Stephen Howarths favourable comments regarding these buses which were solid reliable and comfortable, No 42 is now owned by a group in the Portsmouth area one of who is a friend Clive Wilkin.
Diesel Dave
30/10/15 – 06:37
What about Marlborough St Bristol that used to be one.
Roger Burdett
30/10/15 – 06:38
I loves Eastbourne’s livery of this period. As bright as a seaside funfair and most ususual in keeping the under canopy and bonnet top the same colour as the sides – a very ‘thirties feature. All-round, a very attractive vehicle.
Chris Hebbron
30/10/15 – 06:39
Thanks for your comments, chaps. Alan, you are correct in thinking that, in Winchester, the garage is at the back of the Bus Station. Make the most of it, though, as redevelopment looms!
Pete Davies
01/11/15 – 05:59
Roger, “used to be one” is correct – now completely redeveloped as a bus station only. But, yesterday, I alighted from a trentbarton “seven” inside the “old” Belper bus station/depot – the (upper) maintenance bay is now used by a tyre company, but if buses still overnight in the (lower) bus station area . . .
Philip Rushworth
02/11/15 – 06:48
My first memory of these fine vehicles was as a child in 1953 somebody in my street in the old town area of Eastbourne hired a corporation bus to take us to a fireworks display on the seafront to celebrate the Queens Coronation and it was one of these 40 types as Diesel Dave has said these buses had a distinctive tone. As Dave has said every body on Eastbourne Corporation started as a conductor so when I started in 1968 it was the same for me when I entered the driving school in 1969 the training bus was 42s sister vehicle 47 that was the start of a very interesting career for me I followed Dave to Southdown though it was a NBC Southdown Dave and I worked the early days of National Express I’m now still driving Working for one of the major companies on a part time bases working in and out of one of our big cites I’m now just starting my 47th year as a bus driver.
Tony Grover
02/11/15 – 06:49
Last time I was there, Malton still seemed to be a combined bus station/depot
Michael Keeley
02/11/15 – 06:50
Yes, they do. I think it is still 7 ’55’ reg. Scania L94/Wrights for the “sixes” service, and 2 Solo for the “sevens” service. Recently, a new roller door has been installed, headroom stated at 14′, so no more highbridge double deckers!
Mansfield District Traction Co Ltd 1949 AEC Regent III 9612E Brush H30/26R
A busy scene here in the centre of Mansfield finds ex Ebor Bus Company KAL 697 amongst lorries and shopping laden pedestrians. The bus was new to Ebor in June 1949 has their fleet number 23, so was all but 19 years old at the time of the photograph. It looks in fine condition for its years.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
21/03/16 – 05:29
What magnificent specimens these were and quite unique in a THC fleet. Ebor originally ordered six of these in 1948/9 but found they had been a little too extravagant and sold one before delivery to neighbouring operator Naylors of South Normanton. At less than two years old when taken over by Mansfield District, these Regent IIIs fitted into the MDT fleet perfectly and gave them many years service whereas the Naylors example was taken over by Trent who disposed of it at twelve years old. This style of Brush body seemed far less prevalent than the ones of Bradford, Leeds, Derby etc, but perhaps more durable. Does anyone know if these were metal framed whilst the others were of composite construction? Of course, the longevity of these with Mansfield District lies in the fact that their standards of maintenance and presentation were always of the very highest order.
Chris Barker
24/03/16 – 17:01
Probably captured here in its last days of service, the 111 was a short service route that involved a reverse turn and was often served by vehicles about to be withdrawn.
Berisford Jones
17/10/17 – 06:30
I’m a volunteer at the Bilsthorpe Heritage Museum. In connection with a display item, I need to establish the exact shade of green as applied to Mansfield District buses – not the later pale green version but the original darker shade – somewhat similar to Nottingham City buses? Can anyone help?
Lawson Little
21/04/18 – 06:04
With reference to the querry by Lawson Little regarding the ‘original Mansfield District green. Do you mean the colour that was used from the days of Balfour Beatty ownership pre-1948 until replaced by National Bus Company Leaf Green in the early 1970’s. If so I have an original sample of the colour that has recently been used to add the colour to our ‘Fleetmaster’ authentic paints for modellers. I began collecting samples and information in 1969 due to my interest in liveries and modelling buses. I can be contacted via the Dorset Model Buses website at: https://www.dorsetmodelbuses.co.uk and I would be pleased to help.
This shot is from the Ray Soper gallery contribution titled “Smith’s Luxury Coaches of Reading” click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments. The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Provincial (Gosport & Fareham Omnibus Co) 1947 AEC Regent II Reading H56R
The AEC Regent II was only in production for three years 1945 – 48 and just under 700 were made but at the time just after the war they were much in demand. There wasn’t any variations either it came with a 7.7 litre 6 cylinder oil engine, four speed sliding mesh gearbox otherwise known as a crash gearbox and vacuum assisted brakes, but on saying that it was well capable of doing the job and most of all it was very reliable. Of course there was a choice of body and the above bus had one from the local Portsmouth bodybuilders Reading who built and rebuilt quite a few buses for Provincial.
Bus tickets issued by this operator can be viewed here.
When Provincial re-built their Guy Arabs with air-cooled Deutz engines, they built the lower decks of the bus bodies themselves, then sent the half-completed bodies to Portsmouth bodybuilder, Reading, who built the upper deck and roof. A strange practice indeed. Reading also built several bodies for Portsmouth Corporation buses, too.
Chris Hebbron
Provincial had 4 of these Regent IIs, numbered 10-13 (FHO 602-5). Strangely enough, no.10 was the only one of the batch not to undergo any significant rebuilding (with the exception of a minor alteration to the destination box layout in the late 1950s) and was also the last one withdrawn in December 1968. By 1959,11/12 were found to be suffering from body rot and were subsequently rebuilt using the wartime Reading bodies from AEC rebuilds 14 (EOR 251) and 15 (EHO 282); whilst 13 was initially converted to open-top in 1958 following a collision at Fareham Railway Arch, and rebuilt to closed top once more by Reading in 1960. For further photos of Provincial vehicles, here are a couple of links: //www.flickr.com///www.regent8.co.uk/(select ‘In Focus’)
Stephen Didymus
14/07/12 – 18:29
Copyright Beckingtonian (Flikr) with his permission.
Here is a colour photo of a very smart No. 10, taken in 1968, just a year before its withdrawal, as scrap, in April 1969, after a creditable 22 years of service.
Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport 1946 AEC Regent II Weymann H31/29R
I think any bus would look good in the K.H.C.T. livery but a Weymann flared skirt bodied Regent II looks just about perfect. This bus was one of a batch of 16 Regent IIs delivered in 1946, they were the first non utility bodied buses delivered to Hull after the war. They were followed the following year 1947 by a batch of 24 Regent IIIs then between 1948 and 1950 there were 56 more Regent IIIs delivered. These buses were desperately needed after the war due to the bombing that Hull received. K.H.C.T. certainly liked there AECs apart from 10 ex Newcastle Corporation Daimler CVG6s photo here all there double deckers were AEC until the arrival of the rear engined Leyland Atlanteans in 1960 which by the way were the first front entrance double deckers in the fleet.
The KHCT ‘streamline’ livery reached its peak on the Coronation trolleybuses. I spent many happy hours travelling to Brunswick Ave school, on these trolleybuses, what a shame none were preserved.
