Category: Photos

Hills of Stockingford – Bedford SBG TUE132 – 6EBH – 748UYL

Hills of Stockingford - Bedford SBG - TUE 132/6EBH/748 UYL

Hills of Stockingford
1955
Bedford SBG
Duple C41F

This is a Bedford SBG with a Duple C41F body that has a complicated history. It was first registered on 31 December 1955 as TUE 132, and, from 1 January 1956, went to Hills of Stockingford, near Nuneaton, Warwickshire. The vehicle, chassis number 41422, body number 1060/158, passed to Skills of Nottingham in October 1989. In July 1998 Skills swapped its registration, chassis and body numbers with another Duple bodied SBG registered 6 EBH, chassis number 62553 and body number 1090/150. The purpose of this exercise is perplexing. The former 6 EBH went to John Burton Coaches of Alfreton in June 1999 until scrapped early in 2001. It is unclear how this surviving SB acquired the number 748 UYL. Though originally an SBG (gasoline) example, it now possesses a diesel engine, type uncertain. It currently resides in the car park of a garden centre, “The Walled Garden at Elton Hall”, at the village of Elton in Huntingdonshire. Before this it spent its time parked on the side of the main road through the village, as seen in this picture. Internally, the body is completely gutted, though it does not appear that any active restoration is in progress.
I acknowledge the flickr site of John Wakefield as the source of this information.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

07/01/16 – 06:27

It acquired the ‘age related’ (748 UYL) when the previous owner transferred 6 EBH off onto his car. The current owner now looks to have changed his plans, its back on sale on the //www.carandclassic.co.uk for £24000 plus VAT Previous owner restored chassis & body exterior leaving the interior to be completed, the seats & interior were sold with coach so presumably in store somewhere.

John Wakefield

07/01/16 – 08:57

Thanks for filling in the last bits of the jigsaw, John. Having seen this Bedford languishing in Elton for some time, I decided to photograph it and send it to OBP to glean some information about it. I then discovered that your flickr site had already identified its unusual history.

Roger Cox

07/01/16 – 08:57

Out of interest, if Skill’s swapped the registration, body number, and chassis number, between the two coaches, how does it come to be known that an exchange of identity took place? Were there obvious differences between the two vehicles?
BLOTW gives the original 6 EBH as SB3 – was there any difference between the SBG and SB3 models or was it simply an updating of the code?

David Call

07/01/16 – 11:36

The change was recorded by PSVC & is common knowledge among enthusiasts. There is a difference in age of the vehicles 6 EBH is 1958 & TUE 132 1955. There are small detail differences in the bodies, the front indicator lights for one. TUE has the horizontal ‘tear drop’ type on front corners & 6 EBH had vertical ones set further back. 6 EBH had both windscreen wiper spindles at the bottom of windscreens, TUE 132 has the drivers side in the upper edge. Why Skills did the swop is unclear but presumably to get a nice ‘cherished’ number, I suppose as the vehicles were, to the untrained eye, virtually identical I don’t suppose anyone (including the ministry), noticed. I think by that time 6 EBH was in poor condition & TUE 132 was the better coach. Both the SBG & SB3 had the same 300 cu-in petrol engine, the SBG had a 17ft 2in wheelbase this was lengthened in 1955 to 18ft & became the SB1 (300 diesel) SB3 (300 petrol) or SB5 (330 diesel)

John Wakefield

07/01/16 – 17:08

The SBG (petrol)/SBO (Perkins R6 diesel)) designation continued after the lengthening of the wheelbase in 1955 to 18ft.6in., only becoming SB3 (petrol)/SB1 (Bedford 300 diesel)/SB8 (Leyland 0350 diesel) from 1957. In terms of Duple Super Vegas this occurred part way through the 1074-series of body numbers. The SB5 (Bedford 330 diesel) replaced the SB1 from late 1961, the change taking place during the production of the 1045-series Super Vega.

John Stringer

08/01/16 – 06:47

How legal was this swapping of plates and identity? In this day and age it would be called ‘a ringer’.

Stephen Howarth

08/01/16 – 12:08


Copyright Stuart Johnson

Here is photo of the ‘real’ 6 EBH when with Canham of Whittlesey.

John Wakefield

15/03/16 – 05:44

Roger, any further news on 748 UYL, is it still at the garden centre at Elton? if so maybe you could take another pic.

John Wakefield

17/03/16 – 05:01

748 UYL

Yes, John, it’s still at the garden centre called The Walled Garden at Elton Hall. It hasn’t moved since my original posting in January, and no work on the interior seems to have been undertaken either. This picture was taken on 16 March.

Roger Cox

04/08/16 – 11:18

When I last looked at this Bedford very recently, no work had been done on its gutted interior. It has now gone from the Elton Hall car park.

Roger Cox

20/08/17 – 07:08

748 UYL_3
748 UYL_4

748 UYL was at East Coast Upholstery in Pickering on 16/7/17 when I took these photos, it was still there 13/8/17, still no seats, but must be having some fitted!

Michael Davies

01/11/17 – 07:19

I was searching for some sort of picture of this:
“Known vehicle: XBH 777 Bedford SBG 46298 1/56 , 5/63, 3/66 Duple C41F (1060/352). New to Jeffways Coaches, High Wycombe, Jeffways and Pilot Coaches, High Wycombe 5/60.”
I was very kindly helped to do some research by several people, but a computer problem a year or two ago led to me losing their contact details and some of the explanations that they gave me!
Can someone please de-code the bit in quotes for me?? and tell me if this photo would be a good approximation of the vehicle referred to.

Joanna Wheatland

02/11/17 – 06:38

BH 777
Bedford
SBG Chassis type-SB Model G= Gasoline (i.e. Petrol engined).
46298 = Bedford Chassis number.
1/56 = Date new.
5/63, 3/66 not known.
Duple = Body manufacturer
C41F = 41 seater coach with a front entrance.
1060/352 = Duple body number.

David Hick

04/11/17 – 06:49

The answer to the last part of Joanna’s question is yes.

Peter Williamson

04/11/17 – 06:54

Re 748 UYL (TUE 132) I have recently spoken to Neil at Eastgate Coach Trimmers, Pickering (not East Coast Upholstery) he has now recovered the seats & has now to trim out the interior. I asked him who the owner was & he was reluctant to tell me, just that it was a private owner in Essex & he would pass on my contact details. Have heard no more.

John Wakefield

04/03/18 – 06:54

Apparently 748 UYL (TUE 132) is bound for New Zealand. It went from Pickering in early Feb into temp storage in the Peterborough area. The new owner (Brent Cooper) a New Zealand resident. It is not known what use Mr Cooper will make of the SB, possibly part of a vehicle collection. Current NZ Construction & Use regulations do not permit wooded bodied buses & coaches. Readers may remember the saga of OB JAB 867 that went to NZ in 2006 but had to be returned to UK after owner could not get it certified for PSV use. I dont suppose the number plate issue will be relevant to owner now, as it will have to have a new registration when it gets there.

John Wakefield

07/02/20 – 06:22

Bed_SB

Coach for sale on ebay 6 Feb. 2020

Dennis Rolls

03/11/20 – 06:18

748 UYL has been spotted on land off the A40 junction with Hanger Lane, London, which had prior to Covid been used to park the fleet of Contiki Holidays.

John Wakefield

16/11/20 – 08:27

My son rode on this Bedford on Saturday 14th November on the E2 (Greenford-Brentford). Any info on why it was being used?

Niall Spencer

12/12/20 – 06:36

Niall Spencer. Are you sure it was this Bedford (748 UYL) that your son rode on? As far as I can see its been untaxed since 1/8/16 and in fact has an export marker showing on the DVLA listing!

Vehicle Details
Vehicle make BEDFORD
Date of first registration June 1958
Year of manufacture 1958
Cylinder capacity 99999 cc
CO2 emissions Not available
Fuel type PETROL
Euro status Not available
Real Driving Emissions (RDE) Not available
Export marker Yes
Vehicle status Untaxed
Vehicle colour GREEN
Vehicle type approval Not available
Wheelplan NOT RECORDED
Revenue weight Not available
Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 21 August 2015

John Wakefield

14/12/20 – 07:11

I believe it was this one, as he texted me the reg, knowing I have an interest in buses and coaches. He also said it was an old streamlined green Bedford.

Niall Spencer

15/12/20 – 06:54

Niall I find this very odd, not only is the coach not taxed (all be it free), but it has ‘officially’ been exported. further more it is not insured according to ASKMID! Whilst I am not familiar with the E2 Greenford – Brentford service I find it strange that TfL would allow an old 1955 coach to operate illegally on one of their routes. Had it have done so I am sure someone would have taken a pic and posted it on Facebook etc. Did your son get a photo?

John Wakefield

16/12/20 – 10:55

This isn’t part of the current discussion, but the original picture makes me think of the Matchbox series Bedford SB coach produced in the 1950’s/60’s. I think it was their No.21. The green colour is an almost perfect match. I had eleven of them in my “fleet”, along with the double deckers and trolleybuses from their series. Some survive with in the grand childrens’ box of items. Goodness me, these toys are as old as the real one above!

Michael Hampton

17/12/20 – 11:55

Unfortunately he was on his way to work, as a BTP Police Officer, so was unable to get a pic. He did mention it was a bit of a shock when it stopped at his bus stop and he had to ask if it was the E2. There was a person onboard collecting contactless payments.
This is becoming a very interesting occurrence.

Niall Spencer

21/12/20 – 06:59

Niall I have since been in touch with the owner of 748UYL and it was certainly not the vehicle that your son saw on the E2. As I suspected the Bedford has not been on the road! So looks like mistaken identity.

John Wakefield

21/12/20 – 11:38

At least we have got to the bottom of it.
Will question him next time I can see him.

Niall Spencer

Solent Strutters – Bedford SB – 539 XTF

Solent Strutters - Bedford SB - 539 XTF

Solent Strutters Majorettes
1962
Bedford SB5
Duple C41F

539 XTF was a Bedford SB5 with Duple C41F body, and it has been relegated to duty for the Solent Strutters Majorettes group. The registration indicates it was new to an operator in Lancashire in the period 1961 to 1963, depending on the gap between order and delivery (Look, for example, at Lancaster’s 201-203 YTE). We see it in the rally at Netley on 13 July 1986: soon after this it sank to even greater depths with travellers and has since been scrapped. So much is fact, but now we have a question: who was its first operator?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

17/07/16 – 08:12

New to Barnes, Rawtenstall, Lancashire in March 1962, along with with 540 XTF.

David Hick

18/07/16 – 08:39

Thank you, David. I did wonder if the first operator might have been Battersby/Silver Grey of Morecambe. They had several of this combination (well, SB if not this model).

Pete Davies

29/09/19 – 07:08

539 and 540 XTF were the only Barnes fleet members taken into the Ellen Smith of Rochdale fleet when Smiths took over Barnes business. I think they were retained because they possessed a Leyland engine (Smiths were big Leyland users). Ellen Smith kept them until 1967 and they were replaced by two new Bedford VAM/Plaxton coaches.

Andrew Spriggs

30/09/19 – 06:26

Going back to 539 to 540 XTF, many years ago whilst on hire to Ellen Smith one of their drivers told me each one had a Leyland engine. However the original caption of 539 XTF says its a SB5 which would indicate Bedford’s own engine. A Leyland power unit would indicate them being SB8 or SB13 models. Perhaps some engine swapping has gone on?, we will never know as most of Ellen Smiths drivers I remember from forty years ago who would know have retired from coach driving or sadly passed away.

Andrew Spriggs

06/10/19 – 08:06

Ended its days with travellers https://www.travellerhomes.co.uk/?p=2356

John Wakefield

Princess Coaches – Bedford SB5 – 103 GAA

Princess Coaches - Bedford SB5 - 103 GAA
Princess Coaches - Bedford SB5 - 103 GAA

Princess Coaches (Southampton)
1963
Bedford SB5
Plaxton C41F

Here we have another example of what a coat of paint can do to a vehicle’s appearance. In the first view, 103 GAA is in the Southsea rally on 10 June 1990, in the livery of Fishwick, Darlington. She is a Bedford SB5 with Plaxton C41F body from 1963. The second view shows her, back in her original markings (Princess Coaches of West End, Southampton) and she is in Winchester for the King Alfred running day on 27 April 2003.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

04/09/16 – 13:40

No doubt about it, the lower image is much better.

David Wragg

05/09/16 – 06:30

Yes, even before we get down to the wheel trims! Thanks, David.

Pete Davies

05/09/16 – 06:31

103 GAA_3

Sadly 103 GAA is not in that condition now, it passed from preservation with Brian Guilmant of Southampton in 2004 to Collins of Dartford who left it neglected in a yard at Flexford until recently bought back by Ian Barfoot a descendant of the original owner who I understand plans to restore the coach.

John Wakefield

05/09/16 – 08:04

Thanks, John. Flexford is, I believe, the compound used by the King Alfred preservation group, between Sourhampton and Romsey – unless there’s another one hiding in some obscure part of the map! Ian lives, or used to live, in the Bitterne area of Southampton. His mother asked me to provide a shelter at the family’s local bus stop.

Pete Davies

05/09/16 – 14:55

Indeed Pete, its the North Hills Saw Mills Yard actually listed at Baddesley near Chandlers Ford. Still a lot of old buses in there, along with caravans & other vehicles. I don’t think FoKAB use it much these days

John Wakefield

06/09/16 – 06:24

Two more long term residents at Flexford.

flexford_1

HDL 285 a 1952 ex Southern Vectis Bristol LL5G ECW B39R is another bus that has been in the Flexford yard for a number of years with nothing being done to it other than the occasional new tarpaulin, PSVC list owner as Porter, Chandlers Ford. Crazy that someone should buy a bus, pay rent to store it, & leave it to rot. My picture shows it next to 103 GAA in January 2011, but I have seen a more recent picture of it still there in June this year.

Also still languishing in the yard is very derelict 692 AEH an AEC Reliance Weymann B44F new to Potteries 1957 also seen in Jan 2011. Owner is listed as Paynton of Totton. There was an attempt to rescue this a few years back by someone in the Potteries area, apparently it came to nothing.

John Wakefield

06/09/16 – 08:33

Indeed, John. All we need to do is look at the various preservation sites up and down the country – railway centres as well as bus centres – and note how many of them are able to keep all the items under cover. The percentage is quite small. Until that cover – I don’t mean a tarpaulin! – is in place, the exhibit just rots.
Yes, it may be a wonderful opportunity for the preservation group to acquire the only example of its type ever produced – but shouldn’t the covered accommodation be there prior to its arrival on site, rather than being the subject of an appeal? If the money is raised, what is the guarantee the local authority will allow planning permission for the new building?

Pete Davies

29/09/19 – 07:13

692 AEH an AEC Reliance Weymann B44F, has been rescued the Potteries Omnibus Perseveration Society if you take a look at their twitter page.

Mr Anon

15/10/19 – 05:43

103 GAA has apparently now (11/19) been sold by the Barfoot family to someone in the Taunton area for preservation.

John Wakefield

15/10/19 – 13:37

Quantock, perhaps???

Pete Davies

17/10/19 – 05:57

Not to Quantock they are not into Bedfords.

Roger Burdett

17/10/19 – 13:57

Thank you, Roger!

Pete Davies

Burton Coaches – Bedford SB – LGV 994

Burton Coaches - Bedford SB - LGV 994

Burton Coaches (Haverhill)
1958
Bedford SB
Duple Vega C41F

With Showbus 2016 just around the corner it is an opportune moment to share this photo of Bedford SB 58898 which carries Duple Vega C41F body number 1090/7. This lovely example of this classic combination was new to Burton Coaches, Haverhill in March 1958 but preserved in the livery of Premier-Albanian Premier Coaches, Watford (see below).
Exhibit 608 at Showbus 2015 and entered by Ted Hewitt, the coach shows some seats reversed just behind mid-coach.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

18/09/16 – 14:51

A minor correction, but the livery is that of Premier Coaches (Watford ) Ltd. Albanian coaches of St.Albans was taken over by Premier in the early 1960’s and the Premier Albanian name first appeared on later style Duple bodied Bedfords.
The current seating capacity of LGV 994 is 31 and 2 tables (retained from a 1960’s Duple from the fleet). Originally a 41 seater (as were all such examples in the Premier fleet), only 31 could be repaired to a suitable standard using the original moquette.
LGV will not be at Showbus next weekend, but is scheduled to make an appearance at Amberley museum instead.

Ted Hewitt

18/09/16 – 16:18

Many thanks for the additional information Ted. The coach is a credit to you.

Les Dickinson

10/10/16 – 07:14

EFE produced a model of the Premier Watford SB but bearing the registration 243 CUR along with OB LTA 904(that sounds like Western National?)

Patrick Armstrong

25/10/16 – 07:00

243 CUR was new to Premier in 1958 and carried the same body detail as LGV 994 (other ‘butterfly fronts’ in the fleet differed in window and light detail). When liaising with EFE, it was decided that the model should carry the authentic registration rather than LGV, as at that time the latter was in a very poor state at the back of the garage. Interestingly 243 CUR survives with a private owner having spent a large part of its life as a mobile home. LTA 904 was new to Southern National and joined the Premier vintage fleet from Rover of Chesham. It performed film, wedding and excursion duties alongside Leyland PS1/Burlingham bodied ENT 778.

Ted Hewitt

17/05/17 – 11:30

My name is Susan Richardson and my father is Barry Richardson. Our family business was Burton Coaches (Haverhill) Ltd, started by my Grandfather approximately 1949.
My Dad has very fond memories of this particular bus – He took his test in it and drove it as a young man.
Well, my Dad is 74 in June this year, still bus and coach crazy and still has a PSV licence !
I was thinking it would be a great treat for him to be able to visit this bus and see it up close again – I understand it is owned by Ted Hewitt? Is there any way I could make contact with Ted to ask about arranging this special treat for Dad? I have tried looking for him online, but cannot find anything..:-(
Dad and I are still in Haverhill!
My fingers are crossed that someone can help me in my quest!

Susan Richardson

18/05/17 – 07:48

There is a Ted Hewitt involved at Premier Coaches which is in Northwood Rickmansworth, about 80 miles from you. I haven’t found a Tel no or email address.

John Lomas

18/05/17 – 07:48

If you go on the Companies House website and search under company officers for Edward Robert Hewitt you will find his address in Chorleywood.

Nigel Turner

19/05/17 – 07:13

The owner is indeed Ted Hewitt & I have put Suzie in touch with him.

John Wakefield

20/05/17 – 06:14

A very nice move, John W. Congratulations.

Roger Cox

Don’s Coaches – Bedford SB – NKY 161

Don's Coaches - Bedford SB - NKY 161

Don’s Coaches (Great Dunmow)
1957
Bedford SBG
Yeates C41F

NKY 161 started life with Fairways of Bradford in 1957. It is a Bedford SBG with Yeates C41F body. By the time of this view, at Duxford on 24th September 1995, It was with Don’s Coaches Great Dunmow Essex. Great Dunmow is one of the once-delightful villages near Stansted Airport, where many of the residents didn’t want the facility extended. They were ignored, as indeed were the folk twenty or so miles up the road at Lakenheath and Mildenhall who did want to host the third London Airport. Ah, well. It’s called democracy!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

22/12/16 – 09:27

Dons acquired this from Fairway when it was only two or three years old. Dons sold it for preservation (in the 1970s?) but later reacquired it.
I only met Don Hale once but I would agree with the comment on the company website that he was a true gentleman. The business continues, now in the hands of Steve Harvey whose family had been associated with the business for many years.

Nigel Turner

22/12/16 – 10:02

It may be the camera angle, or perhaps its the body style, but compared to say a Duple or Plaxton from the same era, it looks very narrow, is it a 7’6″ chassis? A handsome beast none the less.

Ronnie Hoye

22/12/16 – 10:46

Thanks for your thoughts, Nigel and Ronnie. I’m not sure if it is a narrow chassis, but I am sure that someone among the readership will complete our education in this matter. Certainly, there have been comments in the past about the features of a Yeates body and I wonder if it’s just a bit taller than Duple or Plaxton to accommodate all that brightwork!

Pete Davies

25/12/16 – 06:24

The SB chassis were all the same size, the distance across the rear (double) wheels being 7ft 3 7/16″ It was the bodies that were different widths. In the case of NKY 161 it is an 8ft wide body. Its the height that makes it look narrow.
Incidentally this is one of only 5 Yeates Europa’s known by me to survive on a Bedford SB chassis. The others are:
5200 AH part restored with Kenzie, Shepreth
WWX 48 derelict with Kenzie for spares
618 KRA under restoration with Chambers, Derbyshire
JEP 861 a caravan with Cook, Corton, Suffolk

John Wakefield

Berrys Coaches – Bedford SB – 107 GYC

Berrys Coaches - Bedford SB - 107 GYC

Berrys Coaches (Taunton)
1960
Bedford SB3
Duple C41F

107 GYC is a Bedford SB3 with Duple C41F body, new to Bowerman, Taunton, in 1960. In this view, it is in Lodmoor Car Park, Weymouth, showing “Berrys” in the indicator box and visiting the annual rally, although it doesn’t appear to be taking part in it. I have recollections of submitting this in the past, but it hasn’t been published (possibly as too dark) but I have a new editor now, and I’ve managed to lighten it! The date is 1 July 1979.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

22/01/17 – 13:03


(pic by ‘Showtrac’ via Flickr).

Bedford SB3 Duple Super Vega, 107 GYC passed to Andrew Hall, Winkhill by 1997 & then to current owner Roger Chambers of Bristol for preservation in 9/05, pic taken just prior to the move to Roger Chambers.

108 GYC

Sister vehicle 108 GYC also new to Bowerman, was last known with Redwoods of Hemyock. My pic shows it withdrawn in a barn at the rear of Brian Redwood’s bungalow in April 2004. Is it still there?
Both coaches had 7ft 6in wide bodies for the narrow Devon lanes.

John Wakefield

23/01/17 – 07:36

What a superb preservation of a grand unpretentious vehicle. My admiration of Bedford/Duple coaches knows no bounds – they “did what it says on the tin” and grand style and with no empty embellishments.

Chris Youhill

26/01/17 – 10:28

I have recently spoken to Redwoods & they still have 108 GYC in the shed as in my pic above. They have no plans to sell it at this time.

John Wakefield

28/04/18 – 07:47

That SB showing Doone Valley may have been ridden in by me, as it was a regular summer afternoon ride on Berrys from Taunton, including up Porlock Hill, along the narrow lanes to the Doone Valley Farm for tea, then Lynmouth (adults into the pub), and home immediately up Countisbury Hill.
The old Bedfords just engaged bottom gear and wound up the A39 1 in 4 gradients. It was a bit difficult for the cars behind on the steep hills who couldn’t quite manage the slow walking pace on the uphill.

Bill

Lodge – Bedford SB – MJB 481

Lodge - Bedford SB - MJB 481

Lodge (High Easter)
1956
Bedford SB
Duple C37F

MJB 481 was new to Chiltonia, of Chilton Foliat, in 1956. Chilton Foliat is near Hungerford and is mentioned in the television series “Band of Brothers”. It has a Duple body to the C37F layout although BLoW has it listed as C41F, we see it in the markings of Lodge, High Easter, near Chelmsford. It is at Duxford on 28 September 2003. Yes, it’s Showbus and it’s been raining!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

26/03/17 – 09:32

Lodges are getting quite a collection of vintage Bedfords.
WTL
BXM 568 Duple since 2/08 (under restoration)
OB’s
CFV 851 Duple Vista acquired 9/16 (under restoration)
LTA 752 Duple Vista open side 12/10
TMY 191 Duple Vista 11/06
FFS 867 Burlingham Seagull 2/17 (awaiting restoration)
SB’s
MJB 481 Duple Vega by -/89
EDD 685C Duple Bella Vega 2/14
VAM’s
DJL 126D Duple Bella Venture 2/14 (awaiting restoration)
HDL 126D Duple Bella Venture 8/15 (spares doner for DJL 126D) also
Chevrolet X
ES 8440 charabanc replica 4/15

John Wakefield

13/06/17 – 07:30

Re John Wakefield post Lodges coaches.
Bedford OB CFV851 is shown in a photo elsewhere taken by John showing Isle of Wight destinations. I believe this coach operated on the Island in the 1970s. Does anyone know who with and when

Andrew Mead

24/06/17 – 06:26

Andrew Mead asks if Lodges Bedford OB CFV 851 body has ever operated on the IoW
not according to the history I have on it. Although I don’t have a town for Couchman. After that it appeared to have spent time in Surrey, Gloucestershire & London before going to Fisher of Southend in 1976. It then spent 38 years in preservation with Doug Payne of Thundersley, Essex before going to Lodge in June 2016.
New to Wood t/a Seagull Coaches, Blackpool 3/48
?/?? Couchman, -?-
5/70 Chivers Coaches, Elstead
?/?? McCann, Forest Green
1/73 Taylor. London
1/74 Baker, -?- (dealer)
?/?? W.E. Preservations, -?-
-/76 Fisher, Southend
-/78 Doug Payne, Thundersley – kept at Castle Point Transport Museum
9/16 Lodge, High Easter 9/16

John Wakefield

14/02/20 – 06:42

Just to add to CFV 851’s history. Looks like it worked for Crouchman Garage on Maidstone Road, Lenham, Kent 1966-70 and prior to 1966 was with an operator on Station Approach in West Byfleet, Surrey for a few years after leaving Blackpool (possibly since 1957?). From 1/72 it operated for Tony McCann t/a McCann Coaches at Forest Green Garage, Dorking Surrey. Don’t know if anyone can further enlarge the info on Richard Haughey’s flickr photo!

Peter Hadfield

15/02/20 – 06:23

The only things I can add to the history of CFV 851 is that Wood withdrew it in February 1952, after which it passed to Howarth, West Byfleet (no dates recorded) and the Lenham operator was Couchman, rather than Crouchman, and it was acquired by him in October 1966.

John Kaye

16/02/20 – 06:07

Douglas Payne, the long time owner of CFV 851, published a booklet dated October 1989 containing a brief history and a number of early photos of S&J Wood Ltd, the coach’s original operator. Douglas had restored the coach to Wood’s Seagull Coaches livery, though whether it remained like that I do not know. In it, he records that he purchased the coach in May 1978 (recorded as -/78 above).

David Williamson

20/02/20 – 15:52

CFV 851 remained with Doug and in Seagull livery until he sold it the Andrew Lodge in 9/16 when it was painted in Lodge’s livery. For most of its life with Doug it was housed in the Castle Point Transport Museum on Canvey Island. In latter years it did not venture far, but now back into revenue earning service as part of Lodges heritage fleet. Numerous pics of it on Flickr.

John Wakefield

Portsmouth Corporation – Bedford OWB – CTP 41 – 163


Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Portsmouth Corporation
1943
Bedford OWB
Mulliner B32F

The earlier photo I posted, of a Portsmouth Leyland Cheetah, surrounded by Daimler CWA6/Duple double-deckers, were neatly bridged by the delivery of 10 Bedford OWBs (1 in 1942, 7 in 1943 and 2 in 1944). All had Duple bodies, save 162 and 163, bodied by Mulliner, more aligned with bodying sleek, expensive Rolls-Royces and Bentleys!
I have to say that I never discovered any real reason for such little buses being allocated to CPPTD. Portsmouth’s bus services were already severely curtailed for the duration, with buses being kept away from the seafront and a greater reliance on trolleybuses than hitherto. They lent out double-deckers for periods. Upon delivery, at least some of them were painted grey, but whether this was through lack of maroon livery paint or the proximity of sensitive sites is debatable.
Whatever they did during the war, they led uneventful lives afterwards on quiet routes, although I have seen photos of them going along Commercial Road, the main shopping centre, which suggests that they were called out to perform on busy routes from time to time.
These small, but stout-hearted vehicles were all withdrawn in 1962-63, with 163 going in 1963. One (170 – CTP 200) survives in preservation.
One quirk unique to these buses were the number plates, which always had a tilde between the letters and numbers!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron

Super picture of that wonderful wartime bus, the OWB. Portsmouth must have been faced with extra wartime naval personnel transport duties to receive these, I would think, but they were regarded as “standard 32 seaters” in the wartime allocation system, being the only new single deckers available.
I well remember riding on Ledgards, and White Bus (Bridlington) OWBs, and the ring of their high pitched petrol engines and gear change lingers in my ears to this day.
Several other municipal fleets received OWBs, Bournemouth and Belfast coming to mind. Perhaps extra wartime duties were the common feature.

John Whitaker

What a lovely picture of the OWB! In the early post-war period, they were painted standard red/white, and with grey roofs. They were also given upholstered seats from withdrawn vehicles (probably the TSMs, Condors and TD1s, reducing to 27 seats.
One of their uses in the fifties was on mileage balancing with Southdown, and I have read that they were especially useful on the Havant / Hayling routes because they could safely use the Hayling Bridge.
Their use became much more intense in later life, as in September 1958 the Corporation introduced a PAYE route (22) between Lower Wymering and Upper Drayton. I well remember this as this was in my earliest days of bus enthusiasm, and the route was just one road away from my home! At peak periods they could be well-loaded, the supposed “eight” maximum often being exceeded. I remember squatting on a bodywork protrusion opposite the driver in the space in front of the front entrance, and the back of the bus was invisible due to the crowd on board! For this work, they were further down-seated to 26, to provide a luggage space for pushchairs.
The picture could probably be dated quite accurately by anyone who still has records. It has a white roof instead of grey, (repaints to white roofs for the fleet were carried out 1959-1961), but still has a semaphore trafficator (on the pillar behind the driver’s window). Later (c. 1962/63?) the fleet were given flashing trafficators, those on the OWB’s being fitted below the window line.
My class-mates and I who followed this interest used to keep detailed records of when we first saw a bus with a white roof instead of grey, flashing trafficators fitted, and re-seated vehicles (both single and double-deck vehicles). Unfortunately my own lists have long disappeared, probably consigned to a dustbin.

Michael Hampton

I was involved for quite a while in 1967/8 in work on the preservation in Leeds of CTP 200. One particular job that I remember doing was to reconstruct the destination blind box which had become badly corroded. Sadly, due to domestic circumstances at the time, I was no longer among the group who eventually put the splendid little vehicle back on the road. I need hardly remind those who know me that I am an ardent admirer of the Bedford OWB/OB – a model which is a modest and unpretentious but stout hearted little trooper if ever there was one.

Chris Youhill

30/04/11 – 15:30

Re OWB’s later life. Michael Hampton is quite right re their late use, but I remember their use for the start of the PAYE services between Wymering and Highbury Estate whilst the new Leyland single deck, twin entry/exit, buses were awaited for delivery and service. The doors were operated by a rod linkage between the driver and the doors!!

Bob Townsend

Portsmouth Corporation – Bedford OWB – CTP 200 – 170


Copyright Chris Youhill

Portsmouth Corporation
1944
Bedford OWB
Duple B32F

Perhaps this old snap may be of interest as we have had a previous posting of a sister vehicle whist in service with the above fine municipal operator. It was taken at Robin Hood on the A61 between Wakefield and Leeds in early 1968. At that time I was involved with a group who were initially preserving the vehicle and I did quite a bit of work on it many weekends, one difficult job in particular was to rebuild the rotting destination box assembly which can be clearly seen here. Sadly, due to domestic difficulties, I had to part company with the Group before the vehicle eventually took to the road in fine order and so I never actually rode on it and it was sold on shortly after that.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Youhill

28/03/11 – 10:30

I recall you saying, Chris, that you’d put some hours in on this vehicle, and I also recalled I’d seen a photo of the finished article on the web somewhere. It’s here with the following caption:
1944 Bedford OWB 170 (CTP 200), pictured in wartime grey livery. Sold in 1963, the remains of the original body were replaced in the early 1990s with a replica body partly built by Ulsterbus, who were restoring a similar vehicle. Photographed in Upper Drayton, Portsmouth April 1996. (Photo and text Malcolm Audsley)
At least your efforts were to some avail in the end!
I was comparing my Mulliner-bodied example with your Duple example (and a few others). Superficially, both makes look the same, but the vents either side of the destination box are different, Mulliner having a cover over the apertures.
Thanks for posting it.
PS Is it you leaning nonchalantly on the front wing – what confidence that it would not collapse from rust corrosion!

Chris Hebbron

29/03/11 – 07:31

Yes Chris it is me leaning on the wing – my co- preservationist took the picture on my camera. You are right – it was indeed a risky pose to adopt, but I only weighed about “nine stone wet through” in those misguided heavy smoking days and so that no doubt saved me from an undignified descent into the mud !! We are amazed to hear of the subsequent rebuilding of the body and thanks very much for that additional information.

Chris Youhill

03/04/11 – 08:56

The bus itself, the mud, the dereliction in the background and the look of grim determination on Chris’s face all nicely sum up the early days of preservation, when finding covered accommodation was a nightmare and the transport “professionals” saw us as mad but harmless. Delighted that this project met with such success.

Ian Thompson

02/05/11 – 06:34

CTP 200 made the HCVS London to Brighton Run today Sunday 1st of May.
It is only the 2nd time out on a real run since we got it back on the road after a 10 year period of rest.
Apart from identifying a few little jobs to do she performed excellently.

Mike Elkin

02/05/11 – 12:53

Congratulations to Mike and friends on this achievement – my only surviving colleague from the original preservation group will be delighted to hear it. I’ve always been an ardent OWB/OB admirer, both in preservation and in full time public service, and the delightful lusty tones provided by these incredibly gutsy and totally honest little vehicles is music to the ear and comes into my mind very frequently.

Chris Youhill

02/05/11 – 12:56

Nice to hear from you Mike E and hear that she is in safe hands and putting in the occasional ‘public appearance’.
Perhaps you could fill in some of the gaps between Chris Y having to give up and near final completions, especially with regard to the Ulster part – how did this happen?

Chris Hebbron

04/05/11 – 06:56

Aside from the engine sounds, I always loved the sounds from Bedford gearboxes of that era – pure music!

Chris Hebbron

27/01/13 – 09:50

CTP 200_2

As I do from time to time I just randomly pick a page – often it helps me to at least try and understand what people are talking about. The posting of Portsmouth Corporation 170 registration CTP 200 has a mention of it attending the London to Brighton run in 2011. Above is picture taken by me as the vehicle passes Brighton pier.

Ken Jones

27/01/13 – 12:25

At the moment, she’s having some attention done to the engine and some repainting in the engine bay at the same time. Paintwork has been touched up, with some thought being given to something more extensive.

Chris Hebbron

30/05/13 – 06:00

CTP 200 is to shortly have some remedial work done to the front grille, front wings and bumper. A new rear registration plate is to be made up, the offside half-drop window replaced and the opening windscreen reinstated. Then she will be going away to be painted in the Portsmouth red and white livery, with grey roof.

Clive Wilkin

30/05/13 – 11:34

She’s also had to have the engine professionally rebuilt recently, essentially because of a badly scored cylinder bore. The engine bay has, concurrently, had a thorough clean and repaint and the body some touchups.
She should be really smart when repainted in maroon, white and grey roof, just as most folk would recall her in service.

Incidentally, nice seafront photo of her, Ken J.

Chris Hebbron

16/06/15 – 08:22

CTP 200
CTP 200_inner

As indicated earlier this restored little bus is now back in it’s true colours of Portsmouth red and white, with a grey roof. It appeared at the Southdown 100 centenary event at Southsea Common on June 7th. It looked very smart, and drew many admiring looks from both enthusiasts and general public. It’s good to compare this with the original picture on this posting, when it’s restoration was at an early stage. Many man-hours (ladies too?) have passed since then to bring it to it’s smart looks today. Well done to everyone.

Michael Hampton

16/08/15 – 08:47


Copyright Kevin Warrington


Copyright Kevin Warrington

To complete an all-round view, here are an offside and rear view of CTP 200 (170), taken on its first outing after a recent renovation. The photos were taken by Kevin Warrington, an active participant in CPPTD, who preserve Portsmouth Corporation vehicles. He allowed these photos to be posted here.”

Chris Hebbron

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

26/10/15 – 06:53


Copyright Unknown

Voila! Another pre-restoration photo of CTP200 when first in the hands of CTTPD (City of Portsmouth Preserve Transport Depot): (renovation of the adjacent PD1 is well underway).

Chris Hebbron

27/10/15 – 06:41

Thank you Chris. I do remember seeing these two together somewhere near Waltham Chase in the early 1980’s, when taking my sons to band practice. There was never any opportunity to find out more. Now 170 is complete, and it’s good to know that the PD1 is also progressing.

Michael Hampton

28/10/15 – 06:58

What a tonic to see these two veterans side by side, and grand to know that the Bedford is already “better than new.” I’m sure that the gorgeous PD1 will be equally appealing in its own class when completed, and this picture of them standing side by side “in recovery” is delightful.

Chris Youhill

West Yorkshire – Bedford OB – FWX 547 – SP1


Photograph by “unknown” – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

West Yorkshire Road Car Company
1948
Bedford OB
Beadle B30F

West Yorkshire needed a few small buses for certain routes to replace there pre-war Leyland and Dennis small buses. Bristol who were the main supplier of buses to West Yorkshire as they were controlled by the B.T.C. were not producing any small lightweight buses at the time so they ordered four Bedford OBs has the photo above.

FWX 547    Initially numbered 614 –       renumbered SP1 in April 1954

FWX 548                                 615 –                           SP2

FWX 549                               K616 –                         KSP3

FWX 550                               K617 –                         KSP4

The first two were based at Harrogate and were for the Cornwall Road route which is the destination of the bus in the photo, other local services were also undertaken in Harrogate by the two Bedfords. The other two Bedfords were based at Keighley (the “K” prefix was for Keighley-West Yorkshire) and were used on the Riddlesden service which had a weak wood canal swing bridge.
West Yorkshire also had a Bedford OB coach with a Duple C26F body built in 1947 registration FWW 596 fleet number CP1 it was based in York and was used for summer city tours. I think it was the only one based at York but if you know different please leave a comment.

A full list of West Yorkshire codes can be seen here.

Copy contributed by Chris Youhill

You may be right in thinking CP1 was the only one of the little Bedford OBs based at York Chris. It was one of two OB coaches supplied to West Yorkshire in 1947 (646/7: FWW596/7). A further two arrived the following year (648/9: FWW598/9), all had Duple C26F coachwork and the batch was renumbered CP1-4 in 1954. CP1 was given an overhaul in 1957 at Central Works, and alterations to the coachwork included fitting of cantrail windows and perspex roof panels for its new role as the York city tour coach. It was withdrawn in 1968, being replaced by none other than CF1 (8848 WY), one of the two Ford Thames/Duple coaches taken over with the Samuel Ledgard business.

Brendan Smith

CP1 is now fully restored and in the Aire Valley Transport Group collection

Chris Hough

Bedford OBs are just like a big car don’t you think, and the crash gearbox wine was just a great sound.

Anonymous

With respect Anonymous I can’t agree there – the OBs were incredible commercial passenger chassis with “hearts of oak.” The amount of heavy service work that they could reliably perform with their modest 28 hp petrol engines was just phenomenal. I’ve had the pleasure, thrill even, of steadily ascending some very long forbidding hills with full loads – for example Norwood Edge from Farnley in West Yorkshire. The wartime service OWBs put in even more incredible performances than their peacetime luxury coach kin. I agree though that the melodious howl of the gearboxes in the first three ratios, followed by the “silent calm after the storm” in top was just wonderful.

Chris Youhill