Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Great Northern Railways 1950 AEC Regent III Great Northern Railways H56R
This photo was originally on the “Do You Know Page” of this website but thanks to P Heywood for the following.
The “Louth” bus on your “Do You Know Page” is a Great Northern Railway (Ireland) bus which I think had its main bus operations in Drogheda (County Louth). Their first bus service (feeding into their railway route from Belfast to Dublin) started in 1929 and finished in 1958. Although they were basically a “Northern” company, they managed to keep their presence in the south after partition by continuing to build and maintain rail and bus equipment in their large workshops in Dundalk (just south of the border) which is probably where this bus was built. Their services were taken over by CIE in the south and Ulster Transport Authority in the north.
If anybody has any other information regarding this particular bus please get in touch.
08/05/11 – 10:21
In the book ‘CIE Buses 1945-1987’ there are two pictures of AEC Regent IIIs of similar outline operating with CIE. One shows 1948 bus AR437 (ZH3936) at Drogheda Bull Ring in full CIE livery, which looks identical in body design to 442 shown above. The other depicts AR294 (IY5396) at Eden Quay, Dublin, still in GNR livery but with CIE ‘flying snail’ emblem on the side. Although the bodywork looks broadly similar at first glance, AR294 has fixed glazing in the upper deck front windows, and is of 5-bay construction. However, in both cases the bodybuilder is given in the captions as Park Royal. I did wonder if they may have been built by the operator on Park Royal frames, or were they delivered as complete vehicles? Either way they certainly looked most handsome vehicles.
Bren
19/03/14 – 16:40
This bus was one of three built at Dundalk Works on Park Royal (London) frames, fleet numbers 440, 441 and 442. They were 7’6″ wide 56 seaters and were based in Drogheda and Dundalk, although occasionally made forays to Dublin. They lasted in service with CIÉ until 1968. These 3 buses were very similar to 7 others which were built by Park Royal in 1948, fleet numbers 433 to 439, which also lasted until 1968. One of these, no. 438, is preserved by the National Transport Museum and on display in Howth. Nine 8’0″ wide 66 seater buses, 299 to 307, were built at Dundalk Works on Park Royal frames around the same time as 440-442 and these were based in Dublin, Dundalk and Drogheda, although two of them, 300 and 305, were destroyed in the Dundalk Works fire in 1955. No. 306 was the last ex-GNR double decker left in service, being withdrawn in 1970. It would not be correct to describe the GNR(I) as a “Northern” company, it was formed at a time long before Ireland was partitioned, its Head Office was in Amiens Street, Dublin and its main Works was in Dundalk and some other managerial functions were based in Great Victoria Street, Belfast. Its area of operations was roughly north of a line from Dublin to Sligo and it even operated extended Coach tours which covered the entire Country!
John Curran
20/03/14 – 07:05
John, thanks for the extra information regarding these delightful buses. My comment about GNR(I) being a “northern” company is of course true in the sense that most of their mileage after partition remained north of the border. This must have created very many difficult political and business anomalies. The fact that their head office and works remained in the south was a direct consequence of their Belfast-Dublin trunk route.
Paul Haywood
20/03/14 – 17:09
Their railway network was savagely afflicted by the international border which meandered to and fro over some of their routes (or maybe it was the lines that meandered to and fro over the border – but the railway was there first!) Having closed all except the Dublin – Belfast main line, GNR(I) was no longer a network, and I guess it was logical to divide it at the border between CIE and UTA.
Photographer unknown : if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1948 AEC Regent III Park Royal H30/26R
Here we have one of a batch of the 76 AEC buses that Halifax ordered after the war to replace some of its well worn pre-war vehicles, they were mainly Regents with a few Regals. Most of the Regents were bodied by Park Royal and were not much different from the one above, there was an handful of Regents bodied by Roe who actually bodied all the Regals. This actual bus was originally fleet number 324 and being above number 200 that would of put it in the “B” fleet which was owned by the JOC but it was transferred and renumbered 59 in 1952 which would then put it in the “A” fleet which was owned by the corporation. The “A” fleet ran services within the borough boundary and the “B” fleet ran services into the surrounding villages from Halifax. I have included a close up of the above photo showing a small number 3 just below the offside headlamp, I have quite a few shots of Halifax buses and a number like below appears on one or two shots but not all by a long way, Does anybody know what they were for. I have heard something about class numbers given to certain batches of buses could they be that. If you know please leave a comment.
12/02/11 – 09:20
Yes, I think you are correct – the small numbers referred to class or batch numbers – but I do recall they were only applied to Corporation buses, not the Joint Omnibus Committee.
Eric R Sykes
13/02/11 – 06:33
Presumably these are the ones that had to have the front upper deck windows strengthened due to the very slender corner pillars? Does anyone know if the whole batch was so treated, I know one was sold to West Bridgford UDC, I imagine the remedial work had been done before being sold.
Chris Barker
18/08/11 – 11:49
According to the Peter Gould website, it was No.47 (ACP 421) that was sold to West Bridgford in 1963, becoming No.19 there. (By this late date it seems certain that the strengthening mod. would have been carried out). New in 1945, re-seated by WBUDC with the seats from their former No.19 (HNN 776) – a 1947 (!) Regent/Park Royal that had been withdrawn in 1962. ACP 421 was finally withdrawn in 1967.
Stephen Ford
Your right there Stephen just happen to have a shot of it with rebuilt upper windows. I see what you mean in the Huddersfield CCX 778 thread that’s one eck of a destination display.
Sheffield Corporation 1953 AEC Regent III Roe H33/25R
Here we have two Sheffield Corporation work horses photographed on a very wet grey day. The Leyland is a Titan PD2/30 built 5 years later than the Regent it had a Weymann H31/28R body registration 4494 WB fleet number 494. It also had a concealed radiator which was nicknamed a “Tin Front” this style of radiator first appeared on Titans when in 1952/3 100 special Titan PD2/12s were built for Midland Red and had a similar style radiator to the B.M.M.O. D7. From 1954 and with a slight modifications the Midland Red look unfortunately became the style of concealed radiator for Titans until 1960 when the “scalloped” bonnet as it was called with horizontal slats came along, thank goodness. I’m afraid a sheet of tin with some slots cut in it does absolutely nothing for me, they even left space for the Midland Red badge to go in at the top which Sheffield made use of for displaying the fleet number. I personally don’t think you can beat the AEC Routemaster for the best looking concealed radiator design, if you disagree or have another suggestion please leave a comment.
A full list of Titan and Regent III codes can be seen here.
Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport 1947 AEC Regent III 0961/2 Weymann H32/26R
This is quite a nice shot of an AEC Regent III just departing Hull bus station on route 50, although only the locals would know were route 50 went as there is nothing on display for its final destination. This I think would of been rather an annoying system if you were a visitor to the area as the only thing you could be sure of is that if you wanted to go to the “Market Place” you were safe on this bus because that is where it is going via. I think this practice was more prevalent for some operators of mainly town services, operators of longer distance services usually had larger destination blinds showing places they went via. If you know of any operators who had strange practices regarding destination information please leave a comment.
Yet another cracking photo! Service 50 went to the pier via the old town were it connected with the Humber Ferry service which ran across to New Holland on the south bank. The service ran until July 1981 when the Humber Bridge was opened.
Paul Morfitt
Doncaster Corporation were even better on destinations: no route numbers and the blind often just showed the final destination with a single via if needed to distinguish different routes there: in at least one case (Skellow via Owston Park), the bus didn’t really go to Skellow, but stopped short at Owston Park: the via was patched out much later. Well… if you didn’t know where the bus was going, everyone would tell you!
Joe
The blind showing, Market Place, was what was known as a “via” blind showing one major part of the route, as there was only space for one line of text, this type of blind appeared during the war, as the larger figures on the blinds were the primary means of identifying the route. All native “Hullensians” knew which route they required by the number. These blinds also appeared until the advent of the “G” registered series of Atlanteans, when a true destination blind appeared.
Keith Easton
Interesting, Keith. I wonder if this was part of the wartime initiative to confuse enemy infiltrators – especially relevant in east coast ports. As you will know signposts and railway station nameboards were removed for this reason.
Stephen Ford
Yes, Stephen, I’m sure that there was an element of what you said, but the main reason for using large numerals was more mundane. As you may be aware, during the wartime blackout conditions, bus operators were required to reduce the brilliance of external displays, consequently the size of the numerals was increased in order to improve visibility at night from a distance. For the same reason trolleybus blinds, which were in black on white, were replaced by black blinds with white numerals.
Keith Easton
03/02/11 – 17:11
On the subject of uninformative destinations Eastern Counties with their use of the word Service as a destination took some beating just as useless was the use of the company title as a destination also a popular ECOC wheeze! Of course the SBG were a breed apart with their extensive use of paper stickers and nothing but a number displayed on the destination screen!
Chris Hough
03/02/11 – 20:04
Lincolnshire Road Car and Western/Southern National were also adept in later years at wasting the “via” screen on the company name or “Service No.”
Stephen Ford
04/01/18 – 06:51
Another quirk of the situation in Hull was that at the time Hull Corporation showed only a route number and ‘via’ blind, the local country operator, East Yorkshire, showed a destination and (usually) ‘via’, but no route number! So Hull folk had to be adaptable, especially if they lived on one of the several routes that were shared between the two operators.
George R
06/01/18 – 06:56
Until about 1936, Portsmouth Corporation had only a small number box and destination box. After this, a larger via box/ route indicator, plus destination box appeared on the vehicles. Sadly, the destination box displayed PORTSMOUTH CORPORATION and the destination was relegated to the via box with all the places the same size letters. Postwar, the destination box actually showed the destination! Let’s remember, too, that both route letters and numbers were used, but these changed according to the direction. 17/18 or A/B, the latter very unhelpful to holidaymakers at a seaside resort!
Douglas Corporation 1947 AEC Regent III O961/2 Northern Counties H30/26R
A nice shot of a very early AEC Regent III taken on the Isle of Man about 1964/5. The Northern Counties bodywork that Douglas Corporation seemed to favour is quite obvious by the front upper deck. An interesting bit of information I came up with whilst researching Douglas Corporation was from Peter Goulds very informative website was that buses which operated within the borough boundary did not require road tax, if the route took it outside the boundary then it did. Needless to say they only had enough buses taxed to do the necessary routes and the letters “EA” which stood for “Extended Area” accompanied the fleet number. With a change of rules in 1964 no Douglas Corporation bus needed road tax to operate. Now I know that the Isle of Man had and still have there own rules and regulations, but it got me thinking what the regulations were for the rest of the UK with regards road tax, MOTs and insurance. If you know please leave a comment
16/11/15 – 10:22
Something I have noticed but has not been commented on or explained is that DCT 56-59 (HMN 687-690) delivered in 1947, 60-63 (JMN 724-727) delivered in 1948 and 64-65 (KMN 835-836) delivered in 1949 had consecutive chassis and body numbers and were virtually identical, whereas the rest of the 1949 delivery, 66-71 (KMN 837-842) had much higher batches of chassis and body numbers, and were significantly different in outward appearance (gasket glazed indicators) and internal layout (one fewer seat on lower deck to create more luggage space). Was a batch of 10 chassis sent to Northern Counties in 1947, and when were the later deliveries bodied?
Photograph by “unknown” – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Bradford Corporation Transport 1950 AEC Regent III 9612E Weymann H30/26R
This was the last of a batch of forty AEC Regent IIIs with what Kev from Bradford calls the 8ft wide Weymann flared skirt body you can see why. I’m afraid it is looking a little tired in this shot taken about 1964 outside one of Bradfords bus depots. Four years latter this vehicle went to scrap, one year after that fleet number 33 was the last one of the batch of forty to go the same way. In 1957 the seating capacity of the upper deck was increased by 3 to 33, a 10% increase, 2 extra seats I can understand easier than 3, unless the original rear seat was only for 2, if anyone has any clues on this please leave a comment.
Bus tickets issued by this operator can be viewed here.
Your assumption about the rear upper seat is correct. All post-war Bradford buses prior to the HKW batch originally had 30 upstair-seats (15 x 2). Most (possibly all, apart from the ex-London RTs, in which there was no room for this) had in due course an additional 3-seat unit added to the nearside rear.
Julien Melville
The location appears to be the old Thornbury works yard which was attached to the operating depot. It was a common sight to see de-licensed trolleys and buses parked here in less than sparkling condition often with smashed windows etc. The whole complex at Thornbury still exists as a warehouse facility. Until the end of its life under the PTE the sign over the works entrance read car works!
Here we have yet another Hanson rebuild, they certainly got there moneys worth from their vehicles. My thanks to the HPTG websites Hanson section for the information regarding this bus. This vehicle was originally a 1948 AEC Regal 9621E321 with a Duple C32F half canopy body with the registration DVH 311 and a fleet number 243. In 1953 it was rebuilt by Plaxtons with a full fronted C33F body and was renumbered 322 in the fleet. The final rebuild to a double decker came about in 1958 with a Roe H37/28R body and renumbered again this time to 350, this bus transferred to Huddersfield Corporation on the 1st of October 1969 when they bought out Hansons bus operations. I am not sure if it actually went into service with Huddersfield and if it did for how long, if you know please leave a comment.
27/04/11 – 07:32
Just a note to point out that the registration of 350 was actually NVH 399 not 394. It is incorrectly listed as 394 on the HPTG site, so I’ll let you off this time! It ran for Huddersfield for a few weeks after the takeover
Eric
Thanks for that Eric it certainly looks like a nine to me I have corrected above.
Peter
29/04/11 – 06:45
350 was lucky to survive to Huddersfield Corporation days. In 1963 during a heavy snowfall it crashed through a wall in rural Helme into a field whilst working the Meltham-Huddersfield service. It ended up on it’s side straddling the wall. Considerable damage must have been caused and probably even more in the recovery proccess. However it was repaired and returned to service. There is a picture of it on it’s side on P43 of P. Cardno and S. Harling’s book Hanson of Huddersfield & Their Neighbours.
Eric
18/06/15 – 16:41
As a Huddersfield resident, these pictures bring back memories of an interesting local operator, who had a great capacity – in the manner often used in Yorkshire – of ‘cobbling together’ older chassis and rebodying them to get extra years of service from them. I rarely travelled on Hansons double deckers, but used to travel daily to school in the late 1960’s on their Regal rebuilds, to old ‘Tanks’. To be a passenger on one of them travelling up Lockwood Scar is an experience that was totally unforgettable. Just a shame that I have lost my photos of these wonderful vehicles in service. It is also good to see a picture of the old Huddersfield bus station, which disappeared in the early 1970’s to make way for the town’s ring road, and has been replaced by a soulless monstrosity that exists till this day. Must admit that the old one had very little protection from the weather
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Morecambe & Heysham Corporation 1951 AEC Regent III Weymann H33/26R
This shot of a Morecambe & Heysham Regent III shows the older livery of green with three narrow cream bands, the newer livery which had an overall cream roof and a wider centre band can be seen here. This shot shows off very well the half drop windows which I should imagine were just the thing on a hot summers day whilst tootling up Morecambe promenade. Morecambe Corporation buses did not have route numbers just the destination and this bus is destined for ‘Battery which is more or less the centre point of the Morecambe promenade between Heysham harbour to the south and Morecambe golf club to the north. When I say Battery “is” I may mean “was”, when I researched this posting “Battery” the place appears on Google maps along with the a little bed denoting “The Battery Hotel” I am presuming that “The Battery” was an old military building. But on Google earth there is no mention of “Battery” and all I can see is a car park I presume it is the map that is out of date. Does the place “Battery” still exist or is it now just a car park if you know please leave a comment.
The Battery was a large public house situated very close to the Heysham Road Depot. Buses running to the Battery would normally have started the journey at Happy Mount Park.
Terry Malloy
The Battery Hotel still exists. The Battery referred to on Morecambe buses was actually a bus park across the road from the pub it was also adjacent to the Morecambe depot. A recent visit to Morecambe revealed that the site is now a Drs surgery and retail pharmacy Stagecoach run the local services in the town. In the seventies Morecambe had a municipal depot as well as a Ribble one as did Lancaster. Part of Lancaster’s municipal depot is now converted into upmarket apartments called The Old Bus Depot!
Chris Hough
I believe that before Morecambe was developed as a holiday resort and expanded accordingly there was a firing range on the sands between Morecambe & Heysham with the Battery Hotel taking its name from an artillery battery which had been sited nearby. The bus park across the road took its name from the pub, which still gives its name to a timing point on the local bus network although a medical centre/pharmacy now stands on the site of the Battery Bus Park. The Battery is the boundary point between Morecambe & Heysham which were separate local authorities until 1928 when Heysham Urban District and Morecambe Borough Councils merged, the Morecambe & Heysham Corporation bus depot which was a couple of hundred yards south of The Battery was therefore in Heysham.
Ian Simpson
Morecambe were still running over 20 AEC Regent IIIs when they became part of the enlarged Lancaster fleet. Interestingly Morecambe were the last operator to run petrol engined double deckers they were certainly in use in the fifties. Also some of Morecambe’s pre-war double deckers had retractable canvass roofs for sunny weather a feature I would venture to suggest were unique unless anyone knows different .
Chris Hough
Actually the Battery was a field artillery station, when Morecambe was a training depot for the army in the late 1800s. The Battery hotel is named for this reason.
Andrew Wild
Yes Chris, the pre war Regents had roll back canvass roofs from the 1936 Park Royal batch up to the last pre war deliveries. These were panelled in during WW2. The relevant Park Royal bodies had an almost vertical rear dome to accommodate the roll up. I could never understand, as a youngster, why this was so different to the standard PR rear shape! There were some really unusual sounding destinations too, Bare, Happy Mount Park, Heysham Towers as well as “Battery” spring to mind.
John Whitaker
08/04/11 – 05:00
The canvas roofs were not unique to Morecambe double-deckers – in fact they were a short-lived fashion with coastal operators in the early/mid thirties, when they were of course very common on coaches. Southdown certainly had some Short-bodied TDs of this type, one of which I believe still survives.
David Jones
21/04/11 – 06:18
And not just coastal operators. Cheltenham & District had a couple of them for some inexplicable reason!
Chris Hebbron
21/04/11 – 06:31
Perhaps for the Cheltenham (Gold Cup) Festival?
David Oldfield
29/01/12 – 07:28
As youngster I travelled on these buses regularly in the 1950’s. They were always immaculate and looked very smart in their green livery. During the early 1980’s one restored bus, fleet no.69, LTF 254 ran on the promenade Happy Mount to the Battery service during the summer only. Does anyone know what happened to this bus? 20 JTE 546 and 35 KTF 594 were advertised for sale by Quantock Motor Services in Somerset back in Jan 2011 – where are they now?
James Welsh
29/01/12 – 16:34
Nothing really to do with buses but the mention of Bare reminds me that in the 1950s my grandparents and I always visited Morecambe for the Illuminations. We always came on a Yorkshire Woollen excursion and the coach always stopped for a refreshment stop at Ye Old Naked man at Settle. My Grandfather always cracked the same joke saying that the man lived at Bare. The premises are still at Settle but I don’t think that many coaches stop there these days.
Philip Carlton
17/04/12 – 07:03
At the risk of being accused of wandering ‘off topic’, there were (are they still there?) two establishments in the eastern part of Morecambe called the Bare Tennis Club and the Bare Women’s Institute, causing some merriment to visitors. I attended Morecambe Grammar School’s 6th form in the mid 1960’s, and several of my classmates hailed from the White Rose county. They called Morecambe “British West Bradford”!
Pete Davies
20/04/12 – 18:13
Re the diversion to the Bare district of Morecambe, I once read or heard that Morecambe Corp would run a fast duplicate service to that area, leaving the regular service for more local people. At the starting point, the conductress on the duplicate would apparently call out “Bare people only on this bus”! Whether that’s just someone’s made up story, or actually occurred, I know not.
Michael Hampton
21/04/12 – 08:20
…..but it’s worth the telling anyway. Couldn’t bear to miss it.
David Oldfield
21/04/12 – 08:21
Shades, Michael, of the “Loose Women’s Institute” in Maidstone !!
Chris Youhill
19/06/12 – 08:23
Morecambe’s petrol engined AEC Regents were still running until at least 1965 as open toppers. I worked on them then as a conductor during that summer after leaving school. As they were only 7′ 6″ wide, collecting fares with standing passengers was a nightmare!
David Platt
19/06/12 – 09:16
The pre war Morecambe fleet was a classic collection of thoroughbred AEC Regents, with beautiful Park Royal or Weymann bodies, and they are engraved on my childhood memory. All were new with petrol engines, and the post 1936 Park Royal examples had sliding sun roofs, panelled in during WW2. a few survived as open toppers, as described by David above. There is a fleet list on this site to whet your appetite, which also covers Lancaster Corporation. I just wish that I had taken photographs of these buses, as it was this fleet, during my early childhood, which cemented my interest in buses. I realised at an early age, that buses came in different, but subtle shapes, and that our home fleet in Bradford had some of identical pattern (Weymann). If anyone knows of a photograph source for this pre war fleet, then I would love to know. Another fascination was the haphazard, gap filling fleet numbering system, only just recently unwound in my mind thanks to the fleet list submitted by Dave Towers, for which , many thanks Memories!
John Whitaker
19/06/12 – 11:44
Well John, Sheffield were past masters at haphazard gap filling with the fleet numbers and with routes numbers. Possibly a bit biased, but I always preferred Sheffield to Manchester but I have to say the Manchester numbering system was always far better and more logical – 1000s and 3000s for Leyland, 2000s and 4000s for Daimler and blocks of route numbers for routes leaving the city down a particular common corridor.
David Oldfield
19/06/12 – 16:05
John If you can get hold of the Lancaster 75th anniversary brochure from 1978 you will find several shots of pre-war Morecambe buses including one overturned on the foreshore. The brochure can be obtained via Amazon. There is also a Super Prestige paperback album about Morecambe and Lancaster buses.
Chris Hough
20/06/12 – 08:08
Thanks Chris…I have both those publications, and also the “Morecambe Bay Buses” of c. 1978. The Super Prestige one is well worth having if you are a fan of either Lancaster and/or Morecambe. I just love the pre-war Lancaster “English Electric” flavour too! Bus shapes very similar to the Bradford Regen trolleys I was brought up with!
John Whitaker
21/06/12 – 06:57
Picking up David’s point, Manchester’s fleet numbering system was certainly a model of neatness, but its rationalisation of route numbers into corridor blocks was not without its critics. It has been suggested that it was far easier for passengers to remember the difference between 50, 64 and 161 than between the 41, 44 and 45 that replaced them.
Peter Williamson
10/10/12 – 09:34
Other than for a couple of brief breaks I lived in Morecambe from late 1958 up to 1982 and am therefore able to confirm/correct some of the above. A bus coming along the promenade showing ‘Battery’ may indeed have come from Happy Mount Park, or it may have come from Central Pier. M & H were famous for sending spare crews out doing ‘promenades’, i.e. extras between the Battery and Central Pier – even when there was no earthly need for them! The turning arrangement at Central Pier was to back into a side street (Clarence Street I think it was called) – it would never be tolerated these days. Buses also terminated at the Battery on the so-called ‘Circular’ service, i.e. Heysham Village – Battery – Promenade – Bare (Princes Crescent) – Torrisholme – Euston Road – Battery. After the arrival of the Leyland PD2s in 1960/62, they were the usual performers on the route. I wouldn’t say that the Battery bus parking area was ‘adjacent’ to the depot – the depot being a full bus stop distance away. Don’t remember a firing range on the sands, but had there been one I probably wouldn’t have remembered it anyway. I haven’t previously heard that the boundary between Morecambe and Heysham was at the Battery, or that the bus depot was in Heysham, but I’ve never been too sure where the boundary actually was so I’d better abdicate on this point. I feel sure that the restored Regent III which ran on the promenade in the 1980s could only have been number 20 (JTE 546). Number 69 (KTF 254) was sold to the Mersey & Calder Bus Preservation Group in the late 1970s and is still, I believe, in preservation at present. KTF 594 was fleet number 65 while with M & H. I think that few people who have stopped for a break at Settle and parked in the car/coach park – even bus enthusiasts – will have realised that there is a bus depot located there. It certainly doesn’t stand out. I think, Pete, that you have mentioned elsewhere that you attended Morecambe Grammar School in the 1960s. I did a full seven-year ‘stretch’ (1960-67) and I sincerely hope that your own experience of the place was significantly more positive than my own. This is perhaps a long shot, but did you happen to be a pal of one of the Mollitt twins? I wouldn’t be able to remember which one, but one thing I can remember is that they had forenames with the same initial letter – James and John I think. Never known non-stop extras to Bare, I think that story’s apocryphal. Morecambe’s last two pre-war Regents, 25 and 49, last ran, I think, in the summer of 1966, but they were diesel-engined by that time. I believe the conversion was quite late – possibly c1960 – by which time they were the only survivors. They were converted to open-top in time for the 1962 season, having been made surplus by the arrival of PD2As 90 and 91. When they were converted I believe the original gearboxes were retained, and as a diesel engine is much slower-revving than a petrol this made them hopelessly undergeared. I’ve heard that the drivers called them ‘two-gear’ buses – which would mean either second then top, or perhaps third then top.
David Call
24/06/13 – 11:40
James Welsh (29/01/12) above asks whatever happened to LTF 254. Well it is preserved and was in service at the Ribble event in Morecambe this year – my picture was taken at Heaton Park on 4/9/2011
Ken Jones
24/03/14 – 13:46
Mention of petrol engined open-top Regents running until 1965 was a little off the mark. The last petrols (enclosed deckers) ran after the 1959 season, new Leylands replacing them the following winter. Two petrols had been converted to diesel after the war – these engines subsequently getting switched to ‘newer’ examples, and it was these which became open-topped from 1962 lasting till 1967 by when some Regent IIIs had been cut down. Open top 65 and enclosed 20 were sold by Quantock late in 2011 passing to Ukraine, 65 known to have been put into use at Sevastopol in red as “London Bus Cafe” (what else!).
Richard Allen
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
16/09/16 – 06:17
Last November John Hewitt and Daren Hunt bought MTE 635 from Ken Wade. Hopefully back on the road in 2 years time.
Eastern Scottish 1949 AEC Regent III 9612E Duple L27/26R
This would of been a lovely shot apart from the glare on the front upper deck but then again it does not take anything away from the sleek lines of a Duple bodied bus. There is as usual the decoration associated with Duple more a coach than a bus builder on this vehicle which did spoil the looks sometimes. I started looking into the history of this operator but what a minefield Scottish Omnibuses Ltd was made up of three separate operators Eastern Scottish, Baxter’s Bus Service and Stark’s Motor Services. I think the history of the Scottish Bus Group of Alexander, Highland Omnibuses, MacBrayne, S.M.T. and Scottish Omnibuses is far to complicated for this posting more for an article if anybody is up to it.
I liked these Duple bodies with the mouldings. However, am I right in thinking that Duple only made lowbridge versions with these features? I can’t think of any highbridge examples. I’d love to be proved wrong.
Paul Haywood
As far as I know you’re dead right about there having been no highbridge Duples of this design on AEC chassis, more’s the pity. The Red and White group had a number of very nice examples of both lowbridge and highbridge design on Guy Arab III chassis though. In addition to the “home fleet” four highbridge models were delivered to the Venture, Basingstoke fleet in 1950. These were reallocated to the former Newbury and District fleet when only a few months old. Here they joined one highbridge and two lowbridge examples of a similar vintage, all of which survived in Thames Valley ownership until 1968. Newbury depot also had some utility highbridge Guys and, following a couple of low bridge incidents when highbridge vehicles had been allowed to accidentally strayed onto the Lambourn road it was decided to renumber them in a series H1-H16, the splendid Duple bodied examples being H10 (the original N&D example) and H13-6 (the former Venture vehicles). The two lowbridge vehicles, which had platform doors and heaters as well as what were effectively dual purpose seats from new and which had been chosen to compete with the Lambourn Valley railway on the Newbury – Lambourn routes, retained their original numbers, 170/1. I quite literally grew up with these buses and they were absolutely superb. The highbridge examples were a little less luxurious than the lowbridge but still of a very high spec. Despite being non standard in the Thames Valley Bristol/ECW fleet they were very well thought of by both drivers and engineering staff and were both well used and beautifully presented throughout their lives. The two lowbridge examples were still invariably on all day workings up to their withdrawal. Sadly, despite rumours to the contrary none survived to see further service or preservation as at the time of their withdrawal Gardner engines were worth a fortune and all seven of these are believed to have ended up powering junks in Hong Kong! The buses that they came from were all scrapped very quickly thereafter. A beautiful Red and White highbridge example lives on in preservation though.
Dave Wilder
19/09/13 – 18:08
This AEC Regent would have been new, or acquired, to SMT Scottish Motor Traction and is seen in a variant livery in the transition to Scottish Bus Group, which was created ca 1964 and reorganised the SMT companies into Western SMT, Central SMT and Eastern Scottish, and the Alexander’s empire into Midland, Fife and Northern. The Edinburgh SMT company had changed to Scottish Omnibuses, to differentiate itself from SMT Motors (the original parent), which continued as a Vauxhall dealership in Edinburgh Fountainbridge and Lothian Road. Scottish Omnibuses had acquired/merged with Stark’s Dunbar, Baxter’s Coatbridge and Lowland Omnibuses (all over the Borders). The first two retained their liveries and identities into the 70s.
David Scott
09/10/13 – 08:29
Somewhat belatedly, may I add some clarification to one or two of David’s remarks? This vehicle would have been new to Scottish Omnibuses: they had 20 in all, BB61-80, GSF644-GSF663. All the constituent companies of the Scottish Bus Group pre-date its formation. Western SMT and Central SMT both date from June 1932. Alexander’s dates from 1914 although the familiar ‘W Alexander & Sons’ name was only introduced in 1924; prior to that, the company had been known as Alexander’s Motor Services. The ‘split’, which created Midland, Fife and Northern took effect on 15 May 1961 although the empire had been split, operationally, into Southern, Fife and Northern Areas prior to that, not to mention David Lawson of Kirkintilloch which was purchased in 1936 but retained as an operating subsidiary until it was absorbed by the newly-created Midland company in 1961. The history of SMT and its various fleetnames is complex. SMT operated its first bus on 1 January 1906. The bus company split from SMT Sales & Servicing at the time of Nationalisation in 1949 but secured an agreement to retain the SMT fleetname for a limited period; the legal name became Scottish Omnibuses Ltd, though. Coaches started appearing with both SMT and Scottish Omnibuses fleetnames in 1959 although, in 1961, the SMT was dropped. In 1963 the fleetname ‘=Scottish=’ made its debut but the SMT diamond was resurrected after about a year, before the company finally settled on ‘Eastern Scottish’ in late 1964. Stark’s Motor Services of Dunbar was taken over on 1 January 1964. From about the mid-50s, however, buses on the Dunbar to Edinburgh service, which was co-ordinated with the SMT and United services over the same stretch of route, carried SMT diamond fleetnames and a reversed SMT livery. After takeover, the Stark’s livery was slightly revised and Stark’s fleetnames were carried by all vehicles operating from Dunbar and North Berwick depots; the Stark’s livery was retained for 15 years. (And, yes, this does mean that the SMT fleetname was carried by certain vehicles when they were owned by Stark’s whilst the Stark’s flletname was carried after they were owned by SMT!) Baxter’s Bus Service was acquired on 1 December 1962 and, initially, buses operating the former Baxter’s routes were painted in a revised version of the SMT light-green livery. The management in Edinburgh, however, not for the first time – or the last – out of touch with operations in the West of Scotland, seriously underestimated the loyalty of the people of Airdrie and Coatbridge towards their local operator; within a few months, after considerable disquiet and criticism in the local press, the management realised their error and Baxter’s blue livery and fleetnames started reappearing on Victoria depot’s buses. This arrangement remained until 1977. When David mentions “Lowland Omnibuses (all over the borders)” he may be mixing the formation of Lowland Scottish in 1985 with the purchase of Lowland Motorways of Shettleston on 13 January 1958. Lowland Motorways’ services to the East of Glasgow and their vehicles, hitherto painted in an attractive livery of two shades of green, were all taken over and their livery disappeared. Lowland Scottish, on the other hand, took over all of Eastern Scottish’s depots in the Borders and, additionally, the former Stark’s depots at Dunbar and North Berwick. Interestingly though, in view of events 25 years later, in May 1960, Stark’s were short of vehicles and hired one from SMT; knowing of Stark’s liking for Leylands, SMT sent them the ex-Lowland Motorways’ prototype Tiger Cub H106, LYS943, and this operated for Stark’s for a very short period.
Alan Hall
06/01/15 – 05:47
The 20 Duple bodied AEC Regent IIIs were the only Duple bodied AEC double deckers built for anybody. There were a large number of highbridge bodies built to this or a similar design, most notably the Red & White Guy Arab IIIs, but also the 60 bodies supplied to Edinburgh Corporation in 1952 (finished by Nudd Bros & Lockyer, part of the Duple group) on reconditioned ex London wartime Guy Arab II (5LW engines apart from one fitted with a 6LW). These had a partial full front body, but the remainder of the body was the same.
Harry Barker
06/01/15 – 09:39
The bodies on the ex LT Edinburgh Guy Arabs were not quite the same, Harry. Though based on similar frames, they were built to an extremely lightweight specification that offered a truly spartan level of interior finish. OBP does have a contribution on these buses.
Roger Cox
10/02/17 – 16:51
I well remember that when the ‘Scotties’ paid their annual exchange visits to YTC at Barnsley in the early sixties, they travelled in AEC coaches with pre selector gearboxes. I seem to remember taking one off the inspection pit as no one knew how these gearboxes worked, except the apprentices who were studying them at collage at the time, and we didn’t have them at the time and in fact never ran the type with the bus-bar ‘Clutch.’ Can anyone tell me about these Coaches which were very luxurious and had toilet facilities and each seat was provided with a travelling rug for the passenger.
ELJ Tracky Lad
17/02/17 – 06:45
Scottish Omnibuses had some AEC Regal IVs with Alexander bodies, dating from 1951/3, which match the description – 9821E/9822E chassis and C30Ft bodies. I must say I’m surprised if some of them retained that configuration into the 1960s though. A couple of photos, one from each batch: https://flic.kr/p/Gd9DoGhttps://flic.kr/p/nbGwHd
Peter Williamson
18/02/17 – 06:50
Sorry, I’ve just noticed that the Regal IV coach in the second photo I linked to above had been rebodied in 1957. BLOTW says it was Alexander again, although it doesn’t resemble any Alexander body I’ve ever seen.
Peter Williamson
11/07/17 – 06:50
The AEC by Alexanders registered KSC was damaged in an accident when it came off the A68 at Soutra Hill in snow on its way to London. Alexanders Falkirk fitted a 1955 style front when repairing it. This 1953 coach was one of a pair which had a pseudo Seagull coach line to its side appearance. Noticeable by its hybrid style, I saw this refurbished coach once or twice in Edinburgh.
Photograph taken by Robert Mack in 1956 copyright held by Don Akrigg
Hebble Motor Services 1950 AEC Regent III 9612E Roe L27/26R
This a shot of a Roe lowbridge bodied Regent III owned by Hebble there as been a shot of one of their Willowbrook lowbridge bodied Regents on site before – search for “Hebble” in the “Find” section of this site. This bus is on route 17 which was Bradford to Halifax via Queensbury. Bradford Corporation did not have any lowbridge vehicles nor did Halifax and both ran services to Queensbury so why did Hebble only have lowbridge vehicles at the time this shot was taken. Hebble acquired their first highbridge vehicles in 1957 and were three rear entrance Regent Vs, there must of been another route that needed the lowbridge vehicles. Hebble did have a Bradford to Bingley route via Wilsden which may have encountered a low bridge of the old railway line. If you know why Hebble had an all lowbridge fleet until 1957 please leave a comment. This vehicle was originally numbered 46 but was renumbered in 1957 and was withdrawn from service in 1962 only twelve years.
Hebble had no highbridge buses until the depot was modified, after this highbridge buses for some years (Regent V’s) had cream fronts to distinguish them from lowbridge buses. The depot roof being raised but not the full area and thus there were dangerous places for high buses to go. Oddly Todmorden had the same problem and both ended up as part of Halifax.
Christopher
I had a very soft spot for these fine vehicles in their lovely traditional maroon and brown original livery. They shared the Samuel Ledgard terminus in King Street Leeds by the GPO wooden parcels office, and appear in the background on many Ledgard pictures. They set off here for Burnley or Rochdale on services 15 and 28, and left at twenty past and ten to the hour. A particularly congested time was from 5.15pm to 5.30pm Mondays to Fridays when there were six departures in ten minutes:- two of the fine Hebble vehicles and, four good old Ledgard’s, 5.27pm to Rawdon, 5.28pm to Guiseley White Cross, 5.29pm to Ilkley and 5.30pm to Ilkley. All were heavily loaded and the bus industry was still healthy, although about to “catch a cold” in those happy days.
Chris Youhill
15/08/11 – 13:25
I rode on these often on the 17 Bradford-Halifax via Queensbury route. This route was interworked with the Halifax-Bradford via Shelf Route 7 in that the bus started on Route 17 Halifax-Queensbury-Bradford then Route 7 Bradford-Shelf-Halifax then 7 to Bradford via Shelf and finally 17 back to Halifax via Queensbury. It used to take two and a half hours full trip (I’ve done it). This arrangement survived the demise of Hebble when the routes become joint Bradford CT and Halifax routes 76/77 and then PTE routes 576 577. I remember round trips on Metro Halifax’s Ailsa and the Metropolitan demo. Hope this may be of interest.
Kev
15/08/11 – 21:49
Before using the 9.6 litre Regents on the 19 service, Bradford to Bingley, Hebble used their 1946 Regal II single decks, with Weymann bodies, new in 1946. 19 was on “home territory” and I do not recollect any lowbridge necessity on the route. What intrigues me is why Hebble reverted to 7.7 Regents with the CJX Willowbrook batch. I well remember some City of Oxford lowbridge utility Guys running, on loan, on the 19 route, but I cannot remember the year! Mind you, cannot remember much of note these days!
John Whitaker
26/08/11 – 07:11
Hebble’s fifteen Roe-bodied Regent III’s 26-37, and 44-46 were 0961 or 9612E models with 9.6 litre engines and preselector gearboxes. The four Willowbrook-bodied Regent III’s 67-70, were not 7.7 models, but type 9613A with 9.6 litre engines and D124 crash gearboxes. This previously long running and successful gearbox design proved troublesome when matched to the 9.6 unit and after a short time these four had them replaced with synchromesh boxes as used on the Regent V. Some late Regent III’s had this box fitted from new, being model 9613S, but these Hebble ones remained officially 9613A. They were wonderful buses apart from the poor visibility through the front upper deck windows. Their interiors had polished woodwork which gave a much more quality feel than the painted wood of the Roe-bodied ones. They sounded great too.
John Stringer
27/08/11 – 14:18
The 9613A was fitted to quite a few post 1950 Regent IIIs and was not up to the challenge. Most were retro-fitted with syncromesh boxes – as was the case with Sheffield’s 1952 Roe bodied batch of 9. They were meant to be delivered with syncro boxes but apparently AECs own syncro box had not been developed sufficiently so they were delivered, in the interim, with D124 boxes. [So the story goes.]
David Oldfield
01/07/12 – 09:48
This has been a very nostalgic visit. I was trying to find out what buses would take people from Bradford to Shipley Glen in 1959, and thought maybe it was the Hebble. Can anyone confirm that? My mother used to say, ‘Time, tide and Hebble wait for no man and once you’re on ’em, they can shek yer liver pin out.’ !
Lynda Finn
04/07/12 – 05:10
Lynda It wouldn’t have been Hebble to Shipley Glen, the nearest they would be would be Cottingley Bar on the Duckworth Lane to Bingley route – a good 2 miles away. Until the withdrawal of the trolleybuses the nearest you could get on the South side of the river would be Saltaire (either by Trolleybus or West Yorkshire Keighley bound buses – necessitating a walk down Victoria Road and across the river. When motorbuses were introduced Bradford City Transport (blue buses) introduced a service down Victoria Road to Salts Mill (23) which showed ‘Shipley Glen’ on the front but you still had to walk across the river – and then in all cases you had to either use the Shipley Glen Tramway if it was running or walk up the path to the Glen. On the North side of the river West Yorkshire buses to Baildon via Baildon Green (61) got you a tad nearer and they eventually introduced a service 60 in the early 60’s along the Coach Road virtually to the bottom of the tramway. I think this also showed (more accurately) ‘Shipley Glen’. By the way – and John Whitaker will confirm – your Mum was absolutely right with her saying !
