Photo by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Leigh Corporation 1948 AEC Regent III Roberts L27/26R
Another shot of a Leigh Corporation AEC Regent III there was one on stand last April the shot was in colour too you can see it here. This Regent is four years older and was built by a different body builder Roberts of Wakefield in Yorkshire. In 1948 the overall length was 26ft it wasn’t until 1950 the length changed to 27ft although I can’t see one foot making all that much difference, touch more legroom perhaps.
05/11/13 – 10:21
The shot of a No.26 Manchester – Leigh (1965) brings back memories, I used to see this in Swinton (top of Worsley Road/Chorley Road junction) in the late 50s/early 60s. Happy memories of travelling to Golborne (trainspotting) on summer Saturday mornings. Via Worsley (under the wires), then across the East Lancs Road again via Boothstown. Change at Leigh for the 46 or 47 for Warrington, (Have I remembered correctly, can anyone confirm?), we arrived at the roundabout on the East Lancs. Road from the North (does anybody know the route it took please?) before jumping off at the roundabout risking life and limb to leg it up to the railway life just to miss a semi. 8 hours, several Shippam’s paste butties and a bottle of Tizer later it was time to go home, full of stolen peas from the adjoining field and very sweaty and grubby. Happy days. I pity the young of today.
Ron Ollerenshaw
28/03/14 – 07:08
Yes you are right about the service numbers. Both departed Leigh via Lords Street turning right at Butts Bridge the down Warrington Road to the East lances Road. The the 46 went to Warrington via Risley and Padgate and the 47 via Croft and Winwick. But you are wrong if you think that’s Golborne. Golborne is 3 to 3.5 miles down the East Lancs Road towards Liverpool. I’ve worked on the buses for the last 40 years starting in 1975 at Leigh.
Mel Higson
30/03/14 – 14:12
Thanks for the response. So what bus did I get?? Definitely out of Leigh, definitely jumped off on the East Lancs Road about a 100 yards from the West Coast main line. Ron Ollerenshaw.
Ron Ollerenshaw
23/05/16 – 06:05
Ron, I also used to trainspot in the early/mid-60’s but a bit further down, at Stones Crossing in Newton-le-Willows, where the WCML passed under the Liverpool-Manchester line. However if you spotted as you say, where the WCML passed under the A580 East Lancashire Road then that would be in Golborne. From Leigh you would have taken the 57 Wigan service via Lowton,Lane Head & Golborne Centre or the less frequent 58 via Plank Lane & Derby Road Housing Estate to Golborne Centre. These services then unusually did a double run up to the A580 roundabout to turn back to Golborne Centre, then on to Wigan or back to Leigh. That timing point was called Golborne, Park Road and was almost at the junction of the A573 with the East Lancs roundabout. Later on, in the mid 60’s the services turned in a small loop outside the Queen Anne Hotel instead of going up to the East Lancs roundabout. Although 57 & 58 were nominally LUT/Leigh Corp. jointly operated, and did so, only Leigh Corp. operated on the 58, which was a pretty sparse service, every 2 hours, with the extension to Wigan only on Saturday pm and just one through to Wigan late pm on a Sunday. The joint 57 was always hourly though. The Park Road bus stop was just yards from the East Lancs Road /WCML overbridge as you say, so this could be the location, and I feel pretty sure there would be peas in the adjoining fields though I doubt the scarecrows would have bothered you! Yes, happy sweaty, grubby days with Shippams paste butty bits floating in your bottle of Tizer or Jusoda. Take me Back!
David Smith
23/05/16 – 11:12
We used to have Seniors fish/meat paste, probably because it was made just down the road from where I lived near Wimbledon. Shippams was made at Chichester, if memory serves.
Chris Hebbron
24/05/16 – 06:59
Well really Chris, I was expecting a comment about Leigh Corporation bus services or Britannia Pacifics and ‘Jubs’, not a discourse on the merits or attributes of 1960’s fish pastes. It obviously caught your imagination! By the way, Sutherlands and Princes were yet another two manufacturers….
Midland General Omnibus Company 1948 AEC Regent III Weymann H30/26R
From what I can make out there was the Midland General Group which included Midland General obviously, Mansfield & District and Notts & Derby. One thing I find strange is that they purchased Bristol manufactured buses I thought that after 1948 only nationalised bus operators could do that. Although one thing I found out was that the general manager of the Midland General Group was also the general manager of the Lincolnshire Road Car Company which was a nationalised operator. One interesting point is that Midland General had their initials in place of the AEC badge on the radiator as can be seen in the blow up below.
This is Mount Street bus station, Nottingham. This is a pre-selector, and as I remember, it was quite unusual for them to be used on the C5 (and B3) Alfreton routes – more usually the crash gearbox Regent IIs. Even up to the late 1960s when the main service was run by Lodekkas, Underwood depot used to turn out two or three Regent IIs on Saturday mornings when the service frequency was doubled. The transmission sound of a crash gearbox Regent II was sheer music. With regard to MGO’s purchase of Bristols, as I understand it the company was part of the Balfour Beatty Group. However, anticipating wholesale bus nationalisation (which didn’t actually materialise), they sold out voluntarily to the British Transport Commission. Their first foray into the Bristol marque was a series of (I think) 15 KSW6G’s in 1952. (They also tried out the prototype Lodekka – a strange and ugly contraption with a very wide exposed radiator.)
Stephen Ford
Strictly speaking, Balfour Beatty were nationalised because they were an electricity generator (for their Notts and Derby’s trolleybuses). They were handed over to THC/Tilling as a result of this. They would happily have continued with AEC/Weymann otherwise.
David Oldfield
(They also tried out the prototype Lodekka – a strange and ugly contraption with a very wide exposed radiator.) I had to have a wry smile at the above comment, which is admittedly basically true I suppose. What many don’t realise though is that it didn’t have the equally revolutionary “Lodekka” body, but rather a modified version of the standard postwar product – recognition of this feature perhaps being eclipsed by the dramatic radiator and bonnet etc. Eventually joining West Yorkshire Road Car Co. Ltd as 822, it was renumbered with the rest of the fleet and ended its days as DX1. Ugly duckling it may have been, but it was the first practical model to abolish the awkward offside upper saloon gangway and poor headroom, and the notorious nearside leaning and rolling on cambers.
Chris Youhill
The KSW’s mentioned were delivered to Notts & Derby as replacements for the BUT trolleybuses which came off service during 1953. The prototype Lodekka was never owned by the company but spent a while with them on a trial basis however this did start a long relationship with Bristol/ECW right through to the demise (almost) of the MGO group in the 1970’s. Indeed the very last Lodekka (YNU 351G) became part of the fleet in the Autumn of 1968 and after continued service with Trent passed directly into preservation in 1980 where it still is – I was one of the original owners.
Paul D Chambers
23/03/11 – 06:50
The Barton’s low bridge decker looks like one of there NCME Regent V with the wrap around front windows a very smart looking design.
Roger Broughton
23/03/11 – 20:03
I remember these Regents with great affection and I was privileged to travel on them as a young lad! There were three batches, the MRB’s as shown were delivered new to Midland General, then the JVO’s, some of which were transferred from Mansfield District to Notts & Derby as trolleybus replacements and of course the last, the ONU’s which were lowbridge. It’s always slightly annoyed me when these ones are referred to as RLH type Regents, I’ve always felt that London Transport’s RLH’s should be described as ‘Midland General type Regents!’ The most memorable thing about all of them was the astonishing condition in which they were maintained, some of them achieved almost twenty years service and they were always turned out in pristine condition right till the end. In their later years, there was a concentration of them at Ilkeston garage, for use on the frequent town services which involved a stiff climb up the main street with many stops and high loadings, a task which they performed with consummate ease, much better than a lumbering Lodekka! In fact, I think it wasn’t until the arrival of the semi-automatic FLF6LX Bristols that the management of MGO thought they had anything capable of replacing them.
Chris Barker
24/03/11 – 06:37
You are right about the RLHs Chris (which of course were actually diverted from MGO). Similarly, the Regent IIs which tend to get called STLs. Goodness – LT only had 20 of them. Plenty more went elsewhere, and they were about as different from proper STLs as chalk from cheese! As for the Ilkeston town services (A2 and A3) I seem to remember some of the N&DT KSW6Gs being used, in the early 60s, when they had been displaced by Lodekkas from the Nottingham – Ripley B1. I guess it was the pre-selector gearbox on the Regents that made them favourites with Bath Street hill to contend with in one direction and Nottingham Road in the other.
Stephen Ford
21/01/14 – 06:54
I hope I’m correct in this statement but Bristol double deckers where not in service at the Midland General until after 1957 to 1958…. I used to work at Underwood garage 1973 to 76, and used to drive the old deckers both with Gardner engines and also with Bristol engines, these where brutes to the brain, left arm and the hearing at times when missing a gear the right leg also suffered due to the throttle being connected direct to the governor in the fuel pump.
Murray Bacon
21/01/14 – 09:09
The LW and early LX series of Gardner engines had ‘all speed’ governors which worked by setting the maximum engine speed at a level determined by the accelerator position. Pressing the throttle pedal to increase the revs acted against the resistance of the governor setting, and resulted in a heavy pedal action. When changing gear upwards with a conventional clutch/gearbox transmission, it paid to blip the engine slightly to take the load off the governor once the gear had engaged before releasing the clutch again to take up power. This obviated the tendency to jerk when the throttle pedal gave way suddenly under foot pressure.
Roger Cox
22/01/14 – 06:37
Murray, you may be right so far as Underwood was concerned, but I think Langley Mill had Bristol Lodekkas earlier than 1957. I’m almost certain they were running on the Hucknall – Alfreton C9 by 1956 at the latest. And of course there were the 15 earlier Bristol KSWs, that were actually Notts & Derby rather than MGO, which came in 1953.
Stephen Ford
22/01/14 – 14:06
Midland General’s first Lodekkas were actually delivered in 1954. One early use of them was on service 44, Derby – Chesterfield which had been instituted in that year and was regarded as a ‘flagship’ route so Alfreton garage may have had some of the first LD’s.
Chris Barker
22/01/14 – 17:56
For reference, the first Lodekka prototype LHY 949 is here www.sct61.org.uk/
John Darwent
25/01/14 – 08:12
Thanks for the link to the photos of prototype Lodekka LHY 949 John. Stephen’s earlier comments about the Lodekka prototype being a “strange and ugly contraption with a very wide exposed radiator” are, as Chris Y notes, basically true. However, if one looks at the ECW bodywork fitted to both prototypes, even though they were of differing styles, they were still quite attractive – as long as you didn’t stray around to the front end (Oooof!). It is well documented that the pair of Lodekka prototypes used some parts from the two prototype M-type chassis exhibited at the 1948 Commercial Motor Show. Intended as a beefed-up K-type with export markets in mind, the M-type was to have been available in double-deck (MD) or single deck (MS) form, and with either a Bristol AVW or Gardner LW engine, but it never went into production. Externally the main parts transferred over to the prototype Lodekkas appear to have been the wide radiators, chrome bumpers, bonnet assemblies, front mudguards and headlamps. The wide radiator did neither of the Lodekkas any favours, and the kindest comment I have read to date called it “ungainly”. Considering the overall attractiveness of the bodywork, the ‘set back’ look of the cab in relation to the radiator, mudguards and bumper simply jars. Most un-Bristol/ECW-like. Going back to Midland General Stephen, the prototype Lodekka demonstrated to the Company, plus Mansfield District and Notts & Derby, was West Yorkshire’s 822 (JWT 712).
Sheffield Corporation 1956 AEC Regent III Weymann Orion L27/28R
Now I know what your thinking you think I have got this completely wrong, this is surely a Regent V you say. No it is definitely a Regent III there was a small number of late Regent IIIs that were built with the wide bonnet front more associated with the Regent V and this is one of them. I also have a shot of another Sheffield Corporation Regent that could be a bit dubious, registration WWB 542 fleet no 742, it is different to above in that it has an odd shaped window on the staircase and no air vent at the front of the roof, I would guess at Roe bodywork myself. I think that it also maybe a Regent III as that registration dates from 1955/6 and I can find no details of it in the Regent V lists on the excellent Bus Lists on the Web website. If you know please leave a comment.
742 was VWJ 542 Regent III 9613S with Roe H33/25R body, new in 1956.
David Harrison
After over 150 exposed radiator Regent IIIs, Sheffield had 41 Roe and 36 Weymann H58R and 9 Weymann L55R Regent IIIs with manual boxes and the new “Regent V” front. This was in 1955/6 and they followed immediately by 40 genuine Regent Vs with Weymann H58R bodies identical to the earlier Weymann/Regent IIIs. The latter arrived in 1957.
David Oldfield
04/05/11 – 07:06
These were the only lowbridge double deckers in the Sheffield fleet post war (and for some considerable time pre war). See Keith Beeden’s comments re Sheffield 1265 for the reason behind this unusual purchase. Four buses (1284-7) survived the rest of the batch by up to four years and made themselves unpopular turning up on a variety of (non lowbridge) services not least being regular performers on the 50 to the posh village of Dore, on the edge of the Peak District. 1284 is pictured in Pond Street Bus Station for a duplicate on the normally single deck service 99 to Chesterfield via the village of Ford which required single deck buses beyond that point.
Ian Wild
05/05/11 – 07:00
It’s amazing how such a fine builder as Weymann could make the Orion look so fine – as it did for almost all Sheffield’s high-bridge variants – but managed to make such a dog’s breakfast of the low-bridges. They had several attempts and failed – the North Western PD2s neither being the same as 1283-91 nor as neighbouring East Midland examples. It’s also true that high-bridge Leylands were generally not so handsome as those on almost any other chassis because of the narrow front profile. I read that, when Leyland closed down the body shop in 1954 that there was a tacet agreement that Leyland body customers would be edged in the direction of MCW (ie MCCW AND Weymann) and this obviously manifested itself in the carry-over from Leyland of a standard 7’6″ front, even on 8’0″ wide bodies (but with the tapering effect). Bizarrely, the best looking and most balanced “low” Orions were on East Midland and Yorkshire Woolen’s Albion Lowlanders – where Alexander made a pig’s ear of it! “First” are still managing to put old rubbish on the (now) 30 to Dore. Is it giving the finger to the unworthy rich – or missing a trick in encouraging onto public transport?
David Oldfield
03/02/12 – 15:27
During the school holidays we use to travel on these buses to the mining area pits (my Mum also worked full time so holidays were spent on whatever route my dad was driving. My Auntie was the conductress).I remember there being 4 bench seats in a row to the nearside & access was lower to the seat height. Cannot remember what happened over the drivers cab, but those front seats must also have been higher than the access route.Downstairs offside was the lowered access route with notices for passengers to “watch your heads” My Dad used to say you can buy the best quality towels from the pit shop at really cheap prices. I think it may have been Orgreave pit. We also used to go on Regents single deckers with the doors & access stairs to the doors & these were the first buses we saw that had a round, chrome heater behind the bulkhead to keep you warm, which we appreciated at 5.30am on cold mornings.
Andy Fisher
28/12/17 – 15:46
Dear David Following your conversation with the Regent III, I am requiring some advice on the Model of my RLH from the Samuel Buses and I am hoping to try and find out if the Regent III types above was the similar bus and I am hoping to change the lower deck to the Regent V front and I am requesting some tips on how to get the job done and what bus to use either the Corgi or the Orion Regent but I do have a quite a few of the buses in the fleet and then I am hoping to do the low height of the bus.
Christopher Norris
29/12/17 – 10:48
It would be good to have a pic of Doncaster CT’s 122 on this site. It was an AEC Regent 3 with a number of interesting features including a stepped boarding platform, those early 50’s deep Roe windows and cranked seating. It also had a Potts Patent air system and I have no idea what that is? 122 has a political history, sold early on with its CVD6 sister to local operators (of which Doncaster had many) on the pretext of being too wide at 8ft to fit the town’s streets (which?), but actually, it seems, not the streets but the DCT bus washer. It is still around in preservation, having been beautifully restored back to DCT glory by the late Tony Peart.
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Leeds City Transport 1948 AEC Regent III Roe H31/25R
This bus was one of quite a few Leeds City buses sold to or on loan to Halifax Corporation in 1964, they were never painted in the Halifax livery obviously not destined to stay long, in fact they were withdrawn one year later. I am not quite sure why they were at Halifax maybe they were short of buses as 20 Leyland Titan PD2s were delivered in 1965 if there is another reason let me know. I have headed this bus as Leeds and not Halifax as it actually kept its Leeds crest, I think only the fleet number and the destination blind changed.
In 1964 Halifax acquired a small number of recently withdrawn AEC/Roe Regent IIIs from Leeds City Transport. This was to cover a delay in new chassis deliveries due to difficulties at the body builders Weymann who had a protracted strike at that time.
Chris Hough
08/09/11 – 14:15
Hi Chris, Did they call your dad Tommy, if so he had me as a trainee conductor in 1960, was his drivers name Burdett? I spent six years at Bramley as a conductor than driver. I became a ticket Inspector in 1968 and a depot inspector in 1969, spending my last 10 years as a depot inspector at Torre Road. Happy days.
Ian Powell
10/09/11 – 08:18
Hi Ian My dad was called Tommy and he did spend many years working with a driver called Burdett whose first name was Arthur. Later he worked with Johnnie Calvert who was a character and drove the first one man double decker in 1969 His final driver was Dick Clough who was one of the last tram drivers. My dad retired in 1984 but sadly passed away in 1985 I still have his LCT cap badges and PSV conductors badge. Sadly as an outsider I feel that much of the fun enjoyed by bus people in my dad’s day no longer occurs.
Chris Hough
04/11/11 – 07:12
Does anyone know where I can see or buy photos of Leeds City Transport Department buses in the BLUE livery which lasted certainly until about 1950, and possibly until the disappearance of the trams in the late 1950s? I particularly want a picture of a No 41 Colton bus. I live in Colton 1949-1951, and can still ‘smell’ the interior of these buses. I’ve sought these pictures in vain on all the websites I can find.
Harry Cockerham
05/11/11 – 07:00
try the sales stalls at Dewsbury bus museum on 13.11.11
Ken Wragg
05/11/11 – 07:01
The last buses delivered to LCT in the blue livery were twenty five Roe bodied AEC Regents numbered 601-625 NUB601 etc Coloured pictures of Leeds buses in blue are not often seen There is a 1949 AEC Regent under restoration at Keighley bus museum which will carry blue livery Also there is a Roe PS1 in postwar blue and two pre-war AEC Regents in pre-war blue There are pictures of all these vehicles on www.sct61.org.uk
Chris Hough
05/11/11 – 07:02
Chris Hough – after Arthur Burdett became an OMO driver he was also one of the first on the 49 route from Old Farnley to Hyde Park – and if I remember rightly he was also a TGWU official.
Chris Youhill
10/11/11 – 17:05
Chris Hough – A thousand thanks for your response. I just can’t say how grateful I am, having found two photos of No. 41 Leeds buses in Colton on the website you gave details of. Will try to contact the copyright holders. Thank you again.
Harry Cockerham
12/11/11 – 06:08
Glad to be of help Harry. The shot of the Leeds CVG6 in the snow at Colton was taken by me please feel free to use it for personnal use.
Chris Hough
12/11/11 – 14:50
Ditto, Harry you can also use mine of VUG 547 in Colton for personal use.
Paul Haywood
16/03/12 – 15:46
Leeds 441 is on a June 1965 tour, a few days before it was withdrawn from Leeds service. This tour took the bus and its enthusiast passengers to Bradford, then Halifax where it joined former Leeds 440 and a couple of others, in Halifax service as a stop-gap due to late delivery of new Halifax buses. Photo I think is behind the railway arches at Stanningley Bottoms, parked just of Richardshaw Lane. I have similar photos in colour and black and white a spot of blind-twiddling was indulged in and quite a few tour participants had a go at photographing the bus here. 441 never became a Halifax bus; it was sold for scrap. Pity really. It and its sisters weren’t in bad shape considering their age-several years of life left in them for sure.
A. D. Young
17/03/12 – 06:16
An interesting photo and if I may try to be helpful, certainly not critical, I can’t recognise the surroundings as being anywhere familiar near those railway arches. Top right of the view shows some multi storey flats nearby and I can’t think which they could be.
Chris Youhill
17/03/12 – 07:07
The picture of 441 was taken on the spare parking ground at the top of the old Crossfield Bus Station in Halifax.
Chiltern Queens of Woodcote 1947 AEC Regent III Park Royal H30/26R
This shot is from the Ray Soper gallery contribution titled “Chiltern Queens of Woodcote” click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments. The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.
Nottingham City Transport 1949 AEC Regent III Roberts H56R
This is an AEC Regent III of Nottingham City Transport, body by Charles Roberts of Wakefield. The location is Nottingham Old Market Square. This series were purchased (I think) about 1948/9 and ran until the mid/late 1960s. (Latterly they were renumbered into the 400 series I believe). As built they had heavy traffic indicator arms that dropped back into their recesses after use with a satisfying thud. In the earliest days I can remember (1951-54) they monopolised the three Nuthall Road routes (1, 7 and 22) which served our area. These started from the steep incline of Hanley Street, round the back of the Theatre Royal, and the buses were provided with a stout metal wedge on a chain, which was jammed under the front off-side wheel while standing there, to avoid accidents.
Photograph and copy contributed by S Ford
28/11/11 – 09:17
My favourite buses. We lived near the No. 1 terminus in Aspley, and were well served by the earlier of these (301 to 324) for many years.
Harold Blythe
28/11/11 – 10:47
Hi Harold. So you were somewhere in the Rosslyn Drive area? As a little lad, I lived in a prefab on Aslockton Drive, so we always boarded at Bar Lane (just after the No. 1 had swung right out of Melbourne Road. Do you remember that there was a time clock at this stop, and conductors had to “clock in” before the bus could proceed? If they were a bit early, they would rattle the handle up and down, trying to make the clock jump forward a minute. I seem to remember the Roberts were later rather disfigured internally by having the fluted “jelly-mould” light fittings removed, leaving naked bulbs instead.
Stephen Ford
29/11/11 – 09:39
Stephen, there was also the time clock on Mansfield Rd.,where amongst other buses the 69 or 52 from Arnold would pull up at on our route in to the City from my grand parents house on High St., seems such a long time ago now.
Roger Broughton
29/11/11 – 15:05
Hi Stephen. We lived on Eltham Drive and later moved to Valley Road at Sherwood. There was a similar clock at the Valley Road/Hucknall Road junction, used by the 2, 6, 17, 18 & 28 routes. Would you have a photo of one of those buses on the 1 route or one of the routes I have just mentioned please? Yes, I think you are right about the lampshades.
Harold Blythe
29/11/11 – 16:09
Roger and Harold, Regarding the time clocks, there was quite a number of them. They were on inward journeys to “City” and noted in the timetables, usually as the only intermediate timing point. From my 1971 timetable, they were at Villiers Road (Mansfield Road services – 10, 20, 52, 57, 69, 73, but not used by the 25 circular), “Valley Road Clock” (Hucknall Road services 2, 6, 17, 18, 28), Bar Lane (Nuthall Road services 1, 7, 22), St Margaret’s Church (Aspley Lane services 16, 16A, 30, 32, 62, 74), Hillside (Derby Road services 5, 19, 45, 63), Old Market Square (former trolleybus routes to Trent Bridge, 41, 43, 46 + 75), and Cardale Road (Sneinton Dale services 3, 59). Harold, the same lamp fittings were used (and later left off) on the post-war trolleybuses, and the big batch of Park Royal AECs built around 1952-4, but they were mounted the other way up, which always struck me as ungainly and “upside down”! Funny the details that attract the notice of a 4-year old!
Nothing to do with the bus, Stephen, but why is the tower in the background at a different angle to the building in front of it? Are they unrelated edifices?
Chris Hebbron
30/11/11 – 15:03
Interesting memories – the thing I remember most about NCT’s Roberts Regent IIIs is the seats – a different style from other NCT vehicles of the period and far more comfortable. In the early 1950s there was a time clock for 42,43,44 trolleybuses on Radford Rd, next to the school near Egypt Rd (inwards). This was moved during the late 50s/early 60s to the stop on Vernon Road just the Bulwell side of the Shoulder of Mutton (ring road). There was also one in Old Market Square in trolleybus days at least, at the stop outside the Bell Inn for 42, 43, 44 (outwards).
Bob Gell
30/11/11 – 17:14
Re: the tower in the background at a different angle……… The tower is part of the building directly below it, but for some reason it is not parallel with it!. The main building is aligned to the road, but the tower isn’t
KC
30/11/11 – 17:37
This has started something hasn’t it?! Chris, the clock-tower is indeed part of the building – known as Lambert’s factory (one of the correspondents on Nottstalgia farther down the forum mentions its conversion to offices, and the partial collapse that happened at that time). Why it is set at an angle, square-on to the top of Hanley Street, I don’t know. Bob, yes I was unsure about the northbound timeclock in the OMS (Beastmarket Hill). The timetable I have gave no clue about the Vernon Road one either. It quotes Basford Northern Baths as a timing point, but of course that was the terminus of the 42 anyway. I suspect there may have been others earlier. Did other cities use them? I never spotted any.
Stephen Ford
01/12/11 – 07:37
Stephen – re the clocktower of Lamberts building, I seem to recall reading sometime that the tower sides are aligned to face geographic north south east west. (No idea why though!). Re timeclocks, an equivalent used in the Birmingham area for many years was the Bundy time clock.
Bob Gell
02/12/11 – 16:32
Thanks Stephen. I thought I had seen a photo of 307 somewhere, and this must have been it.
Harold Blythe
03/12/11 – 06:58
Sheffield had quite a number of Roberts bodied Regent III in 1948/9 for both the A and B fleets. They had a slightly different (a bit old fashioned) appearance than this Nottingham example. I remember the rather heavy rain deflectors over the saloon windows, the bulge to the cab front panel which doesn’t seem to be there in the angle of the shot of the Nottingham vehicle. Sheffield specified sliding windows rather than half drops. Both sets of bodies were of four bay construction which was rather unusual at that time being more of a 1950s design. Re Bob Gell’s comments, the Sheffield Roberts bodies also had passenger seats different from any others in the fleet having higher backs. I think Roberts made a more pleasing design of body for the 35 tramcars built for Sheffield in 1950-1952.
Ian Wild
30/12/11 – 07:36
Ian, Nottingham also had 15 Daimler CVD6s with Roberts bodies. They came before the AECs and were only 7 foot 6 wide, (the Regents were Nottingham’s first 8 foot buses). The Daimlers were similar to the preserved Colchester example, and like the Sheffield Regents had sliding windows. They also had straight backed seats, instead of the high back contoured ones that Bob referred to. Here is a link //www.flickr.com/photos/
Stephen Ford
02/05/12 – 08:55
Stephen – do you recall that the ‘Roberts Regents’ came in two ‘varieties’. a) three half drop windows per side on both decks and glass lamp covers. b) four half drop windows per side on the upper deck and two per side on the lower deck but no lamp covers. Can anyone remember where the split between the two ‘species’ came in terms of fleet numbers? Roger, Harold, Stephen and Bob – there were 13 locations at which NCT had time recorders (known as ‘clocks’) as opposed to the clocks situated at terminal points. Time recorders were located at (1) Aspley Lane/Melbourne Road (2) Nuthall Road/Bar Lane (3) Vernon Road/Valley Road (4) Hucknall Road/Costock Avenue (5) Mansfield Road/Villiers Road (6) Gedling Road/Westdale Lane (services 25/25B to Mapperley) (7) Carlton Road/Alma Road (services 38/39 inwards) (8) Sneinton Dale/Cardale Road (9) St.Anns Well Road/Bath Street (services 40/47 inwards) (10) Bath Street/Victoria Baths (services 38/39 outwards) (11) Derby Road/Hillside (12) Old Market Square/Processional Way (13) Old Market Square/Angel Row The recorders at St.Anns Well Road and Bath Street were also used as crew relieving points known as Bath Street Junction and Bath Street Clock respectively.
Michael Elliott
03/05/12 – 09:00
Hi Michael, Thanks for this. I was sure there were more clocks than I was able to infer from the timetable. Now you mention it I do remember waiting for time at the GedlingRoad/Westdale Lane stop on the 25 – wasn’t this stop called Dr Parks’ Corner, or was that the Burton Road/Gedling Road stop? I hadn’t realised the differences between the two batches of Roberts Regents. It was my impression that both started out with the glass jelly-mould lamp fittings, and both lost them towards the end – though I could be mistaken. (They also featured on the Roberts Daimlers and the Roe-bodied trolleybuses. They were also fitted on the later Park Royal OTV series Regents, but mounted the other way up (upside down!) as also the 1950 trolleybuses (KTV500-601).
Stephen Ford
03/05/12 – 10:00
Michael, I’ve been thinking some more about the timeclocks. There was one on almost every group of routes. The exceptions suggest they were a fairly early innovation, which was not perpetuated as the route network developed after about 1950. The following routes did not have them: 4 and 4A Beeston routes – These were originally through routes from Arnold (replaced by the 57) so passed the Villiers Road clock. 9, 54, 65 Mapperley/Carlton via Gordon Road. However the 9 originally ran via Thorneywood Lane and Carlton Road, passing the Alma Road clock. 31 Mapperley via Woodborough Road. Originally however this ran through to Trent Bridge as 35, and would therefore pass the Processional Way clock. 56 and 60 Bilborough via Ilkeston Road. Services not introduced until about 1948 by which time I suspect the decision had been taken not to install any more. 58 Radford via Castle Boulevard. Until about 1953 this ran across city to Sneinton Dale as route 3, and would pass the Cardale Road clock. The clocks also seem not to have been fitted on any joint service routes – i.e. West Bridgford, Clifton or the Basford via Nottingham Road trolleybus routes – which were joint with the Notts & Derby Ripley trolleys until 1953.
Stephen Ford
07/03/13 – 06:53
I am now 44 and grew up in the Bakersfield area and so remember the AECs going up and down Carlton Hill. 39, 72 and 25 were the numbers and I used all of them but the 39 the most when we would go to Wollaton Park. I remember the county council taking down the old trolley bus posts and the suspended central road lights, but the city council left theirs in for many years after that and they began near the old Fina petrol station and went all the way down Carlton Hill and all the way to Lower Parliament Street. I really loved the old AECs, they just looked so right and I thought they would be around for ever. One of my favourite spots was near the old railway bridge on Carton Hill at the junction of Porchester Road. The railway signs were still on the bridge walls advertising various ticket offers and the pipe organ builders, old blue and white tin building stood on the corner of Carlton Hill and Porchester Road with the Coopers arms just around the corner. When the buses stopped outside the organ builders at the traffic lights, they would often struggle at rush hours when packed with people. The junction was much more narrow then and the old traffic lights were cast iron and had the word stop over the red lens in black. These would often stick on red both ways and bring everything to a holt. We would sometimes get off there and feed the horses at the fence at the edge of the field which is now the housing estate. Any more memories from anyone?
David Morris
07/03/13 – 11:48
Intrigued by the advert for the pipe organ builder, David. As a professional organist, I only know one organ builder in Nottingham – Henry Groves. Is it he, or some other? Groves continues, in death, run by his grandson – Jonathan Wallace.
David Oldfield
08/03/13 – 07:22
The organ builder referred to is Henry Groves who occupied the former St. Clement’s church (a tin chapel)at this location. The railway bridge carried Carlton Road over the former Nottingham Suburban Railway, which had closed in 1951 and had been dismantled by 1954.
Michael Elliott
08/03/13 – 08:37
Thanks Michael. Henry Groves/Jonathan Wallace have quite a good reputation in the East Midlands.
David Oldfield
09/03/13 – 07:37
David, Its a small world, I do know Jonathan Wallace and I do a small amount of organ building myself as it is one of my interests as well as buses and railways. I sometimes went down there as a boy to watch them work and that is where my interest started. Groves then moved to the old sports hall at the back of the old Hogarth school at the bottom of Carlton hill near the old Crown pub, (later Smitheys and now gone). Jonathan still works near Nottingham. As you are a professional organist, I could do with some advice as I am trying to get to grips with the Theodore Dubois Toccata in G, with very slow progress. Anyway back to the subject of Buses, Does anyone have any photographs of AEC Regent III bus OTV 161, as I am the current owner and would like to try and put an information board together for the public.
Thanks for the shot of 154 Peter and thanks to Stephen for the links to 161. Like the shot of 161 in the Market Square. I have seen a couple of the Grimsby shots before but the others are interesting. If anyone has any dates or details such as last run in Nottingham, routes through its life, time at Grimsby etc, that would be great. I notice the indicator lenses are different when it was at Grimsby as it has the bright orange jelly mould lenses fitted now. These lenses are the ones I remember as a child, which I assume were fitted when the trafficators were removed. (Which year?) There have been quite a few things which I have found during time working on 161 which make up some very interesting questions. Time for these some other time. If anyone has any photographs of Regents on the Carlton route, that would really make my day.
David Morris
12/03/13 – 06:41
I’m pleased that David Morris is now the owner of OTV 161 and has had it back on the road. The late Peter Edgington and myself were the original restorers of 161 during 1981-83. We did the work ourselves, with assistance from friends from time to time, to a limited budget. We tried to ‘capture’ 161 as it would have been around 1960/61 and this involved the restoration of NCT style destination displays front, back and side, a complete repaint and mechanical work. Unfortunately, we were unable to find suitable half drop windows to replace those removed by Grimsby from the fourth bays on both side of the lower deck. I have photographs of 161 during its restoration and I’ll look these out and put together a gallery posting.
Michael Elliott
13/03/13 – 06:47
It would be really great to talk to you some time as I have a lot of questions to ask you. Really looking forward to seeing the restoration photographs you took. I will try and sort out some recent pictures of 161.
David Morris
20/06/13 – 13:32
Is somebody going to volunteer a nice shot (or shots – preferably including front, rear and interiors) of OTV 161, for inclusion on OBP? – This is just a gentle prod – pleeeaase!
Stephen Ford
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
06/01/15 – 05:43
Does anyone know please whether any of the Roberts AECs (301-341) survived the breaker’s yard? It would be great to see one again.
Harold Blythe
07/01/15 – 06:28
Sadly, I’m a hundred and ten percent certain that none did. If only…
Stephen Ford
08/01/15 – 06:47
Recent comments brought this section to my attention. See my “Best bits” re Nottingham Area Bus Photos for some of my pics of these Roberts Regents. Sad to see a final, final confirmation that none of these superb vehicles survived into the preservation era and I enclose one of my other pics to confirm that the class pioneer in particular went the way of all such flesh. Here is 301 just about intact (well, apart from the most important bit!) in a scrapyard up Commercial Rd in Bulwell. Unusual in that it still carries fleetnames and numbers – these were normally painted over before disposal.
Rob Hancock
22/02/15 – 16:23
Thank you both for the information and photo. It’s no use me offering to help anyone to restore one then! Very sad.
Harold Blythe
23/02/15 – 07:20
While none of these handsome machines still exist, there IS an example of a 7`6 wide Roberts-bodied Daimler, ex-Gash still in the throes of restoration. Sorry, don’t have contact details, but it has featured in recent enthusiast magazines. One suspects those involved in that project would welcome an active helper. In addition, of course there is the similar ex-Colchester example already restored and active in the care of LVVS
Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Great Northern Railways 1950 AEC Regent III Great Northern Railways H56R
This photo was originally on the “Do You Know Page” of this website but thanks to P Heywood for the following.
The “Louth” bus on your “Do You Know Page” is a Great Northern Railway (Ireland) bus which I think had its main bus operations in Drogheda (County Louth). Their first bus service (feeding into their railway route from Belfast to Dublin) started in 1929 and finished in 1958. Although they were basically a “Northern” company, they managed to keep their presence in the south after partition by continuing to build and maintain rail and bus equipment in their large workshops in Dundalk (just south of the border) which is probably where this bus was built. Their services were taken over by CIE in the south and Ulster Transport Authority in the north.
If anybody has any other information regarding this particular bus please get in touch.
08/05/11 – 10:21
In the book ‘CIE Buses 1945-1987’ there are two pictures of AEC Regent IIIs of similar outline operating with CIE. One shows 1948 bus AR437 (ZH3936) at Drogheda Bull Ring in full CIE livery, which looks identical in body design to 442 shown above. The other depicts AR294 (IY5396) at Eden Quay, Dublin, still in GNR livery but with CIE ‘flying snail’ emblem on the side. Although the bodywork looks broadly similar at first glance, AR294 has fixed glazing in the upper deck front windows, and is of 5-bay construction. However, in both cases the bodybuilder is given in the captions as Park Royal. I did wonder if they may have been built by the operator on Park Royal frames, or were they delivered as complete vehicles? Either way they certainly looked most handsome vehicles.
Bren
19/03/14 – 16:40
This bus was one of three built at Dundalk Works on Park Royal (London) frames, fleet numbers 440, 441 and 442. They were 7’6″ wide 56 seaters and were based in Drogheda and Dundalk, although occasionally made forays to Dublin. They lasted in service with CIÉ until 1968. These 3 buses were very similar to 7 others which were built by Park Royal in 1948, fleet numbers 433 to 439, which also lasted until 1968. One of these, no. 438, is preserved by the National Transport Museum and on display in Howth. Nine 8’0″ wide 66 seater buses, 299 to 307, were built at Dundalk Works on Park Royal frames around the same time as 440-442 and these were based in Dublin, Dundalk and Drogheda, although two of them, 300 and 305, were destroyed in the Dundalk Works fire in 1955. No. 306 was the last ex-GNR double decker left in service, being withdrawn in 1970. It would not be correct to describe the GNR(I) as a “Northern” company, it was formed at a time long before Ireland was partitioned, its Head Office was in Amiens Street, Dublin and its main Works was in Dundalk and some other managerial functions were based in Great Victoria Street, Belfast. Its area of operations was roughly north of a line from Dublin to Sligo and it even operated extended Coach tours which covered the entire Country!
John Curran
20/03/14 – 07:05
John, thanks for the extra information regarding these delightful buses. My comment about GNR(I) being a “northern” company is of course true in the sense that most of their mileage after partition remained north of the border. This must have created very many difficult political and business anomalies. The fact that their head office and works remained in the south was a direct consequence of their Belfast-Dublin trunk route.
Paul Haywood
20/03/14 – 17:09
Their railway network was savagely afflicted by the international border which meandered to and fro over some of their routes (or maybe it was the lines that meandered to and fro over the border – but the railway was there first!) Having closed all except the Dublin – Belfast main line, GNR(I) was no longer a network, and I guess it was logical to divide it at the border between CIE and UTA.
Photographer unknown : if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1948 AEC Regent III Park Royal H30/26R
Here we have one of a batch of the 76 AEC buses that Halifax ordered after the war to replace some of its well worn pre-war vehicles, they were mainly Regents with a few Regals. Most of the Regents were bodied by Park Royal and were not much different from the one above, there was an handful of Regents bodied by Roe who actually bodied all the Regals. This actual bus was originally fleet number 324 and being above number 200 that would of put it in the “B” fleet which was owned by the JOC but it was transferred and renumbered 59 in 1952 which would then put it in the “A” fleet which was owned by the corporation. The “A” fleet ran services within the borough boundary and the “B” fleet ran services into the surrounding villages from Halifax. I have included a close up of the above photo showing a small number 3 just below the offside headlamp, I have quite a few shots of Halifax buses and a number like below appears on one or two shots but not all by a long way, Does anybody know what they were for. I have heard something about class numbers given to certain batches of buses could they be that. If you know please leave a comment.
12/02/11 – 09:20
Yes, I think you are correct – the small numbers referred to class or batch numbers – but I do recall they were only applied to Corporation buses, not the Joint Omnibus Committee.
Eric R Sykes
13/02/11 – 06:33
Presumably these are the ones that had to have the front upper deck windows strengthened due to the very slender corner pillars? Does anyone know if the whole batch was so treated, I know one was sold to West Bridgford UDC, I imagine the remedial work had been done before being sold.
Chris Barker
18/08/11 – 11:49
According to the Peter Gould website, it was No.47 (ACP 421) that was sold to West Bridgford in 1963, becoming No.19 there. (By this late date it seems certain that the strengthening mod. would have been carried out). New in 1945, re-seated by WBUDC with the seats from their former No.19 (HNN 776) – a 1947 (!) Regent/Park Royal that had been withdrawn in 1962. ACP 421 was finally withdrawn in 1967.
Stephen Ford
Your right there Stephen just happen to have a shot of it with rebuilt upper windows. I see what you mean in the Huddersfield CCX 778 thread that’s one eck of a destination display.
Sheffield Corporation 1953 AEC Regent III Roe H33/25R
Here we have two Sheffield Corporation work horses photographed on a very wet grey day. The Leyland is a Titan PD2/30 built 5 years later than the Regent it had a Weymann H31/28R body registration 4494 WB fleet number 494. It also had a concealed radiator which was nicknamed a “Tin Front” this style of radiator first appeared on Titans when in 1952/3 100 special Titan PD2/12s were built for Midland Red and had a similar style radiator to the B.M.M.O. D7. From 1954 and with a slight modifications the Midland Red look unfortunately became the style of concealed radiator for Titans until 1960 when the “scalloped” bonnet as it was called with horizontal slats came along, thank goodness. I’m afraid a sheet of tin with some slots cut in it does absolutely nothing for me, they even left space for the Midland Red badge to go in at the top which Sheffield made use of for displaying the fleet number. I personally don’t think you can beat the AEC Routemaster for the best looking concealed radiator design, if you disagree or have another suggestion please leave a comment.
A full list of Titan and Regent III codes can be seen here.
Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport 1947 AEC Regent III 0961/2 Weymann H32/26R
This is quite a nice shot of an AEC Regent III just departing Hull bus station on route 50, although only the locals would know were route 50 went as there is nothing on display for its final destination. This I think would of been rather an annoying system if you were a visitor to the area as the only thing you could be sure of is that if you wanted to go to the “Market Place” you were safe on this bus because that is where it is going via. I think this practice was more prevalent for some operators of mainly town services, operators of longer distance services usually had larger destination blinds showing places they went via. If you know of any operators who had strange practices regarding destination information please leave a comment.
Yet another cracking photo! Service 50 went to the pier via the old town were it connected with the Humber Ferry service which ran across to New Holland on the south bank. The service ran until July 1981 when the Humber Bridge was opened.
Paul Morfitt
Doncaster Corporation were even better on destinations: no route numbers and the blind often just showed the final destination with a single via if needed to distinguish different routes there: in at least one case (Skellow via Owston Park), the bus didn’t really go to Skellow, but stopped short at Owston Park: the via was patched out much later. Well… if you didn’t know where the bus was going, everyone would tell you!
Joe
The blind showing, Market Place, was what was known as a “via” blind showing one major part of the route, as there was only space for one line of text, this type of blind appeared during the war, as the larger figures on the blinds were the primary means of identifying the route. All native “Hullensians” knew which route they required by the number. These blinds also appeared until the advent of the “G” registered series of Atlanteans, when a true destination blind appeared.
Keith Easton
Interesting, Keith. I wonder if this was part of the wartime initiative to confuse enemy infiltrators – especially relevant in east coast ports. As you will know signposts and railway station nameboards were removed for this reason.
Stephen Ford
Yes, Stephen, I’m sure that there was an element of what you said, but the main reason for using large numerals was more mundane. As you may be aware, during the wartime blackout conditions, bus operators were required to reduce the brilliance of external displays, consequently the size of the numerals was increased in order to improve visibility at night from a distance. For the same reason trolleybus blinds, which were in black on white, were replaced by black blinds with white numerals.
Keith Easton
03/02/11 – 17:11
On the subject of uninformative destinations Eastern Counties with their use of the word Service as a destination took some beating just as useless was the use of the company title as a destination also a popular ECOC wheeze! Of course the SBG were a breed apart with their extensive use of paper stickers and nothing but a number displayed on the destination screen!
Chris Hough
03/02/11 – 20:04
Lincolnshire Road Car and Western/Southern National were also adept in later years at wasting the “via” screen on the company name or “Service No.”
Stephen Ford
04/01/18 – 06:51
Another quirk of the situation in Hull was that at the time Hull Corporation showed only a route number and ‘via’ blind, the local country operator, East Yorkshire, showed a destination and (usually) ‘via’, but no route number! So Hull folk had to be adaptable, especially if they lived on one of the several routes that were shared between the two operators.
George R
06/01/18 – 06:56
Until about 1936, Portsmouth Corporation had only a small number box and destination box. After this, a larger via box/ route indicator, plus destination box appeared on the vehicles. Sadly, the destination box displayed PORTSMOUTH CORPORATION and the destination was relegated to the via box with all the places the same size letters. Postwar, the destination box actually showed the destination! Let’s remember, too, that both route letters and numbers were used, but these changed according to the direction. 17/18 or A/B, the latter very unhelpful to holidaymakers at a seaside resort!
