Mexborough & Swinton Traction Co Ltd 1954 Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/11 Harrington Wayfarer C26C
Mexborough & Swinton acquired a number of former Southdown vehicles during the 1960’s, including this Royal Tiger with Harrington Wayfarer coachwork. New to Southdown in 1954 as its 834, it was one of a batch (830-834) of five Royal Tigers with Harrington Wayfarer C26C coachwork. However, whereas 830-833 were 8ft wide PSU1/15 models, 834 was a one-off 7ft 6in wide PSU1/11 model. Renumbered 1834 around 1960 it was used principally on the Brighton to Heysham part of their Irish tours. It was acquired by M&STC in 1965, and withdrawn by them shortly after this photo was taken in 1968.
Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer
03/02/13 – 13:22
C26C leaps out as being rather odd, but the copy reveals why the batch was seated thus. Any ideas, please, as to why this one was only 7ft 6in, when the other four were to the usual 8ft? Could it, perhaps, have been because of the need to visit parts of Ireland where a standard 8ft vehicle could have problems – but the copy mentions only the Brighton to Heysham portion of the tour, as if an operator from across the Irish Sea dealt with the rest. Interesting!!!
Pete Davies
03/02/13 – 13:24
Thanks John for the excellent picture. 1832 and 1833 were also 7′ 6” PSU1/11’s and were used for the Irish leg of these tours by UTA until return to Southdown in 1963. They were subsequently painted in the Blue and Cream livery of Bucks Coaches of Worthing, who had just been taken over by Southdown. These vehicles replaced a pair of Bedford OB’s inherited from Bucks. 1832 and 1833 were withdrawn by Southdown in late 1966.
Roy Nicholson
03/02/13 – 14:21
It is interesting to note that 1832 and 1833 were sold to UTA in order to run the Southdown “coach cruises”, never tours, that ran in Northern Ireland. Regulations in the province permitted only UTA to run PSVs. They were transferred at book value, with the agreement that they would be bought back when no longer required. At least Wallace Arnold and Barton had the same arrangement.
Gore’s of Southport 1951 Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/15 Burlingham Seagull C37C new – C41C ??/??
Gore’s Coaches was the trading name of the Southport & Birkdale Motor and Carriage Co. Ltd. of Southport. I was quite taken aback to come across this late survivor of the Royal Tiger/Burlingham Seagull marque in such fine fettle outside Liverpool Lime Street Railway Station, whilst on an enthusiasts’ visit to Birkenhead and Wallasey on 13th June 1971. This one deserved to have survived into preservation – I wonder what became of it ?
Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer
17/02/13 – 07:34
Super picture and beautiful vehicle – doesn’t look twenty years old, more like twenty months.
David Oldfield
17/02/13 – 13:31
Very nice, John! Thanks for posting. Reading Corporation (I see you don’t list any from that fleet yet, Peter) had assorted single deckers, even into the RE era, with the Burlingham trademark on the front. Flattery gets you everywhere!
Pete Davies
17/02/13 – 17:31
Any Burlingham will do for me – apart from the hideous flying pig (c1959) on Bedford/Ford chassis!
David Oldfield
18/02/13 – 11:00
It would be a hard job to make one of these look bad, but no doubt some of todays ‘Corporate Image Experts’ would have a good try.
Ronnie Hoye
18/02/13 – 12:08
Yes Ronnie, but imagine one in National white – that would be bad enough!
Thank you, Alan, but Roger’s views (good as they are) don’t appear in the column to the left, so a newcomer to the site may not know there are any of this operator without a closer study. I’ve found a few to submit for consideration and will fire them off to our Editor in the course of the next few weeks.
Pete Davies
19/02/13 – 15:23
Very true, David, the National all white reminded me of the factory finish commercial vehicles were delivered in prior to painting. It’s not so much all one colour that’s the problem, choice of colour could make all the difference on what were very similar vehicles. Take a Plaxton body for example, National all white? drab and anonymous, Glenton on the other hand were quietly restrained and dignified.
Ronnie Hoye
19/02/13 – 15:23
PSVC gives this coach as withdrawn by Gore’s in 11/72, with no further owner recorded. Evidently reseated to C41C at some time prior to this photo, but recorded as C37C, as given above, when new.
David Williamson
22/09/14 – 14:37
I am not a bus or coach driver, just a casual visitor to this site, but it occurred to me that there is a serious front overhang on the coach above. Did it not make it difficult to drive? I once drove a 3 ton truck on a one off 20 mile trip. That gave me the sensation of being slightly drunk. I would have thought that you would have felt completely plastered, driving the above!
Martin Robinson
28/10/14 – 16:52
There is a Burlingham Seagull advertised on eBay at the moment. //www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201202508209?clk_rvr_id=721251652239 I don’t know how accurate the listing is. It says 1958 Bedford SB8 Classic Vintage Coach yet further down it says it has a Leyland 350 engine. Did they put Leyland engines in the Bedford chassis?
John Lomas
29/10/14 – 06:59
They did fit Leyland engines, John, but I doubt the Leyland 0.350 is original. I don’t think the SB13 (with 0.350) was available in 1958 – more likely an SB8 (with 0.330). The 0.350 was probably a retrofit. 1958 was actually very close to the end of SBO and introduction of SB5 and SB8. I’m not expert enough in this part of Bedford’s history to be sure of dates – I only know the specifications. The SBG morphed into the classic SB3 (300 Bedford petrol), the SBO became the SB5 (330 Bedford diesel) and the SB8 (0.330 Leyland diesel) was an addition to the range. I believe the SB13 (0.350 Leyland diesel) eventually replaced the SB8 but everything was outlasted by the SB5 which continued (albeit with a new, indecipherable code) until the bitter end in 1985.
David Oldfield
29/10/14 – 06:59
Yes, Bedford SB8 and SB13 models had Leyland engines.
David Hick
29/10/14 – 15:56
Forgot to mention the rare SB1 with 300 Bedford diesel engine.
David Oldfield
29/10/14 – 15:56
The Bedford dealer, Arlington, had begun offering conversions of the ‘Big Bedford’ S-type goods chassis with the Leyland O350 (5.76 litre) engine from as early as 1952. Bedford themselves began to offer a Perkins R6 (5.56 litre) diesel option in both that model and the SBO coach chassis from 1953. In 1957 Bedford introduced their own 330 (4.92 litre) diesel engine to replace the troublesome R6, resulting in the SB1. At the same time they began to offer the Leyland O350 officially as an option, resulting in the SB8. In 1961 they replaced their own 300 diesel with the increased capacity 330 (5.42 litres), resulting in the SB5. By 1962 Leyland had replaced the O350 and its larger bore equivalent the O375 (not used by Bedford) with the revised O370 (6.05 litre) and O400 (6.54 litre) units respectively. The O370 went into the SB as the SB13, and the O400 into the twin-steer VAL, and later the VAM as well as various goods models.
John Stringer
29/10/14 – 17:04
….. and of course Leyland then produced their own version of the SB13 – the Albion Victor VT41L, with the O.370. Those who ran them held them in high regard but, like many models, they were a little late on the market and only lasted about three seasons before the VAM/R192 style lightweights took over from the traditional SB style motor for independents.
David Oldfield
05/08/18 – 07:45
I have just come across the messages sent four years ago concerning Bedford coaches fitted with a Leyland engine & I would just like to vouch how good that combination was. When Bedford deleted the option to specify a Leyland power unit in 1967/8 ie the Leyland O400 in the four wheeler VAM14 & “Chinese Six” VAL14 in favour of their own 466 engine to me it was a retrogressive step. The Bedford 466 engine was originally developed for the introduction of the KM lorry in 1966. The 466 was not a bad engine, but not a patch on a Leyland unit especially VALs. With this disservice by Bedfords a good number of coach firms move onto the Leyland (& indeed Perkins) powered Bristol LH & its longer brother, the LHL.
Andrew Spriggs
07/08/18 – 06:03
Andrew. I think most people – and certainly most operators – agree that the VAL14 and VAM14, because of their 0.400 engines, were better than the VAL70 and VAM70, with the Bedford 466. The Ford R series began to catch up with Bedfords and, possibly overtake them (literally) from this time on. Bedford’s heyday was really from the OB through to the SB3.
David Oldfield
09/08/18 – 07:18
Yes I agree with you David, as the Ford R series really gave Bedford a run for their money especially with the turbo engine & six speed gearbox on Fords. In the later years of Glenway Coaches, Fords served the company well,drivers only complaints were the turbo would cut out for no reason & a sloppy gearbox (having to fish for gears). Fords would fly along on the flat on the motorway, get to a gradient & then old AEC Reliances would fly past in the middle lane leaving the modern Ford standing. Going back to the original thread of Leyland Royal Tigers (bit before my time), the only one I recall was a 1952 model that had been rebodied in the mid 60s with a Plaxton Panorama body, my friend drove that one, he liked it apart from heavy steering & not too good brakes.
Warwickshire Miners 1953 Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/16 Leyland C41C
Here are two views of GJT 29 for your perusal. She is a Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/16, with Leyland’s own C41C bodywork, and is seen at the Southsea rally on 17 June 1984. The odd feature about her is that she was never a PSV. She was built in 1953 (according to the PSVC listing) as a staff bus for a mining and/or quarrying firm in the Purbeck area of Dorset. PSVC lists the original owners as Warwickshire Miners and I’m supposing that the Dorset operation was a subsidiary. She was in use with a Scout group in the area at the time of the photographs.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
22/03/13 – 08:03
The Purbeck area of Dorset there is an Oil field still producing a lot of oil, so it is probably that site in which GJT 29 transported the staff.
David J Henighan
22/03/13 – 16:37
The mining industry had various convalescent homes around the country which were regionalised (S. Wales, Yorkshire, Warwickshire) and the latter had a home in Swanage (Durlston Court). This one was called the Warwickshire Miners’ Convalescent Home, which is the full title of the owner of the coach. I wonder if the coach had been pensioned off by then, but bought/passed on for the nearby oilfield’s employees.
Chris Hebbron
22/03/13 – 16:37
I believe the Royal Tiger was used by the Warwickshire Miners’ Convalescent Home (Durlston Court, Park Road, Swanage) to transport its patients.
John Stringer
22/03/13 – 16:38
Here she is in preservation. www.flickr.com/one According to Preserved Buses (2006 Edition), she was owned by Massingham of Slough but that may have changed by now of course.
John Darwent
22/03/13 – 16:39
There is a Warwickshire Miners Convalescent Home in Swanage. I believe that it has since been demolished. This maybe the reason for the Dorset registration. Also see the following picture on flickr: www.flickr.com/photos/two
Stephen Bloomfield
23/03/13 – 07:51
John… Would you know where to look or search for if GJT 29 is still with us… I’ve tried the usual Googling and nothing other than links back to this site and flickr… These vehicles are one of my all time favourites but I haven’t seen one in the flesh for maybe 50 years now…We had a thread sometime during last year and I was asking if it would be possible to find one during our annual visit back to the UK and (I think it was) Neville Mercer, but apologies if I’m wrong there, suggested that there may only be two of these beauties left – one at the Scottish Bus Museum in Fife and another, perhaps, somewhere in Yorkshire… If this one was in a preserved condition as recently as 2006, maybe it’s still in ownership somewhere and I’d love to be able to see it during this year’s visit…
Stuart C
23/03/13 – 09:02
Stuart, GJT is listed in the PSVC edition for 2012 as being with Massingham, Slough. I’ve no idea what condition she’s in!
Pete Davies
24/03/13 – 15:06
. . . and I forgot! Pennine still have the former demonstrator, MTD 235. My sources tell me she’s stored in the garage in Skipton (the former Ribble place in Broughton Road) but others say she’s at Barnoldswick. The Ribble Vehicle Preservation Trust used to have one, possibly two, but their website didn’t mention them when I looked last.
Pete Davies
26/03/13 – 06:35
Many quality vehicles ended their working lives as workmens or staff buses, but not many would have started that way. You would expect a new vehicle to have been from the lightweight end of the market rather than a Royal Tiger.
Ronnie Hoye
26/03/13 – 08:59
To be fair, Ronnie, it’s not clear that it did start as a workmen’s bus. But you make a good point that, even if the vehicle had been acquired by the convalescent home for patient use, why was it such a heavyweight? It’s all shrouded in mystery, as ever!
Chris Hebbron
26/03/13 – 16:10
Thanks very much….If I track down GJT later this year, then I’ll update everyone….Fingers crossed she’s still in one piece !
Stuart C
27/03/13 – 06:40
The various “Unions of Mineworkers” – Warwickshire, Durham, Kent etc (the National Union of Mineworkers [NUM] was a federation of the regional unions/areas) each had their own convalescent homes for sick/retired mineworkers. A coach would be required to transport residents around the local area, and also to ferry residents between the home and place of residence: I would assume that the coach would spend most of its time on “local” work around the home, with regular – but less frequent – trips to collect/return patients to the place of residence, so perhaps it made sense to register the coach in the area where it would spend most of its time (Dorset) rather than Warwickshire. I’m sure a lightweight could have done the job, but a heavyweight would have done it better and would make a “statement”: don’t forget that until the mid-1980s the NUM areas were very wealthy bodies – a new heavyweight would make a powerful statement of “who we are” and “how we care for our members”, both to those inside and outside the organisation.
Philip Rushworth
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
30/10/13 – 07:03
Ribble 377 the all Leyland Royal Tiger PSU/13 ERN 700 is with the Ribble preservation group and restoration is on going, though it is a 44 seat Bus variant.
H W Hunter and Sons 1952 Leyland Royal Tiger Plaxton C43F (1966)
Hunter’s were a family run business who went for quality rather than quantity. They bought well in the first place, and as we’ve seen before on this site, their vehicles were well looked after and meticulously maintained. ZV 2428 is probably an age related registration that was issued when the original was transferred to someone’s car. That number is on a vehicle that is part of the N.E.B.P.T. Ltd collection. The vehicle in question belonged to H W Hunter and Sons, and is a Leyland Royal Tiger that they bought new in 1952, it came to them as a Burlingham Seagull, and being 1952, I presume it would have been a centre entrance. In 1966, they had it rebodied by Plaxton as a C43F. This vehicle, EJR 791, has an identical history, so the question is, is this in fact the same vehicle, or was it one of a pair?
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye
30/06/13 – 09:42
Ronnie, nice view! I remember some vehicles in what was then the Les Gleave Group being lengthened and rebodied in the 1960s. Roman City in Bath did the same trick – using Harrington – on at least one Royal Tiger they bought from Ribble. EJR 791, according to the PSVC preserved bus listing for 2012 is indeed ZV2428, at that time with Universal, Portlaoise.
Pete Davies
I thought ZV and similar registrations are what are popularly known as “Paddy Plates” (I claim Irish blood and am allowed to say this) -Irish registrations with the great advantage of not revealing the (venerable?) age of the coach. These seem/seemed popular with small operators who used them as “personalised” plates.
Joe
01/07/13 – 07:18
The ZV2428 Number probably means that this coach spent some time in Ireland. The ZV plate is used here for imported vehicles that come under a “vintage” registration class which covers vehicles over 30 years old.
David Jones
01/07/13 – 07:35
Mention of the Les Gleave Group lengthening and rebodying a number of Leyland Royal Tigers brought to mind this photo of one of these coaches taken in Eastbourne in the mid sixties registered 2048 LG the body style indicates the work was carried out around 1961/62. There is a photo of an identical coach at that time belonging to Campings of Brighton registered 501 WLG taken at the 1964 Brighton Coach Rally posted on the SCT 61 Photo Gallery section covering Plaxtons.
Diesel Dave
01/07/13 – 10:50
Only Northern Ireland plates can be used in Britain in the way Joe describes. ZV is used in the Irish Republic, as David suggests, when registering a vehicle older than 30 years.
Geoff Kerr
02/07/13 – 07:35
It is the same vehicle. EJR 701 is a Leyland PSU1/15 which was new to Hunter’s in March 1952 as their no 19; it had a Burlingham C41C body. In January 1966 it was rebodied by Plaxton to C43F and renumbered 27. In June 1977 it was acquired by OK Motor Services. In January 1984 it was transferred to Lockey’s which had itself been acquired by OKMS in October 1983 and was functioning at the time as an OK subsidiary; EJR carried the ‘Lockeys Burn Line’ fleetname, but OKMS livery. In August 1985 it, together with the rest of Lockey’s extant fleet, returned to OKMS with whom it remained until June 1987.
Alan Hall
06/07/13 – 16:02
I like the zero-(or possibly negative-)offset front wheels on the lengthened Royal Tiger from Diesel Dave, which give the bus a real heavy-vehicle look. One reason that I dislike wheel-trims (especially those ghastly wobbling chrome things) is that they obliterate much of a vehicle’s identity and character, and can add difficulty to a historian’s job. Thankfully, no such nonsense with 2048 LG!
Pete Davies: In your post of 30/06/13 you have implied that Roman City had an ex-Ribble Royal Tiger lengthened and rebodied by Harrington. The only Roman City vehicle I know to have been rebodied by Harrington was FRN 982, a Tiger Cub, not Royal Tiger, ex-Scout, rather than Ribble, and it retained its original length (more or less). The ‘Wikipedia’ page on Harrington refers to the vehicle as being ex-Ribble, so that may be where you got the Ribble connection.
Berresford’s ex Wilts and Dorset (originally Silver Star, Porton Down) Royal Tiger rounds the perimeter road of Longton Bus Station on 20th June 1971. This coach was new to Silver Star in July 1952 with a Leyland C41C body as built in large numbers for Ribble. It was fitted with the Harrington Contender Mk IV body in July 1956 after a serious accident earlier that year. It passed to Wilts and Dorset in June 1963 when that Company took over Silver Star’s operations. This information is taken from a series of articles on Silver Star in Buses Illustrated from February to April 1965. Jim Berresford operated a mixed collection of second hand vehicles from his premises at Cheddleton. HWV is showing “Private” on the blind but it could just as well have been operating on Berresford”s Longton – Leek service. A collection of contemporary PMT buses are in the background. One of the final (1962) batch of Atlanteans of Stoke Depot on a Longton – Newcastle Estates working pursues HWV into the bus station whilst farebox fitted Roadliner 1063 of Longton Depot awaits its next trip to Blurton. Just in view is short Leopard 1124, another Longton allocated bus.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
10/11/13 – 08:02
If I remember rightly, Berresford’s was a bit of a rough and ready operation famous for it’s bus grave yard – old buses were simply dumped, withdrawn, in adjacent fields. They were big Leyland fans and had a number of ex Stockport all Leyland PD2s.
David Oldfield
10/11/13 – 17:33
This Harrington body was a variant of the type seen here on this site: Maidstone & District – AEC Reliance – TKM 329 – C329 . The Silver Star version seen above is rendered even uglier than the M&D style, in my opinion, by the grotesque front grilles that seemed to anticipate some of the later aberrations from the Duple stable. Thankfully, Harrington went on to redeem itself with the stylish Cavalier.
Roger Cox
11/11/13 – 08:31
The whole frontal appearance makes the body a potential Ugly Bus Page contender.
Phil Blinkhorn
11/11/13 – 15:32
I’ve seen this vehicle described as a Contender before, but surely it is a Wayfarer III? As far as I know the Contender model was for semi-chassisless vehicles such as the Commer-Harrington TS3s. However, for many years the LDB registered Harrington coaches delivered to North Western in 1958 were described in enthusiast publications as “Contenders” rather than Wayfarer IVs which is what they actually were! In that case the error went unchallenged until the vehicles had already been sold by NWRCC. Do we have any Harrington experts on board who can clarify this?
Neville Mercer
11/11/13 – 15:32
And the coach wears a sad face to express its own thoughts on its appearance, Phil.
Chris Hebbron
11/11/13 – 15:33
The body is a Harrington Wayfarer Mk 3, rather than a Contender, which was Harrington’s integral model fitted normally with a Rootes TS3 two stroke engine, apart from some for BOAC which had Rolls Royce petrol engines. The Wayfarer Mk 3 is described here:- www.thcoachwork.co.uk/way3.htm .
David Williamson
12/11/13 – 16:33
Maidstone & District had a large fleet of centre entrance Wayfarer/Reliances but also 3 similar looking but front entranced Commers, all of which were “TKM” registered.
Malcolm Boyland
13/11/13 – 12:54
You could say that Berresfords was a rough and ready operation but what a fascinating one! I always loved a trip from Leek to Hanley on the 16, or to Longton on the 106 because you really didn’t know what delight from the fleet would turn up next. I remember an ex-St Helens AEC Swift being on the stand in Longton bus station once and the driver couldn’t get reverse gear, all the passengers, some of whom were quite old, dutifully got off and helped to push the bus off the stand! It must be said though that everything Berresfords operated was smartly painted in fleet livery of red and ivory with the fleetname quite professionally applied. They were nearly always fitted with a destination blind of some sort. Such a shame that Jim Berresford’s untimely death brought it all to an end, it was one of those truly characterful operators which are sadly missed.
Chris Barker
10/12/13 – 06:38
Recent contributors may be interested to know that my book, Berresfords Motors of Cheddleton, is due to be published this week by MDS Books/Venture Publishing.
Eric Wain
11/12/13 – 06:30
Yes indeed Eric, I enquired about it at last Saturday’s Transport fair at the Manchester Museum. This is one volume I’m really looking forward to!
Chris Barker
23/12/13 – 08:34
I’ve just finished reading Eric’s book and can heartily recommend it. A decent history of Berresfords has been needed for donkey’s years and Eric has finally come up with the goods – and I would still be saying that even if we didn’t share a publisher!
Neville Mercer
03/03/14 – 07:26
Eric, I have just purchased and read your superb book on Berresfords, an operator that has long fascinated me (and no doubt many other enthusiasts) even though I only visited the depot a couple of times. A couple of points – you don’t mention in the book the large number of vehicles which must have been purchased for spares only, on both my visits a lot of the derelict buses seemed to fall into that category but I doubt there is any record. Amongst others the “West’s” RTL, and on my second visit a Western SMT Fleetline, GMT ex North Western RE and several ex NBC single deckers. My second query is how did Jim decide on withdrawal whether to keep a vehicle round the back for spares, or sell it on either for service or scrap. And whilst many obviously stayed in the yard for years, other derelicts must have been disposed of long before the PMT takeover.
Michael Keeley
20/05/14 – 08:30
Thank you, gentlemen, for your kind comments regarding my book. With regard to the withdrawn vehicles and those purchased for spares, there were two reasons why this aspect could not be covered. Given the large number of vehicles which fell into these categories over the years, it became obvious that other text or photos within the book would have to be forfeited in view of space limitations. Secondly, although there was much information available about many vehicles acquired for spares etc., it was known that the list would certainly be far from complete and it was decided not to produce an incomplete list. From the early 1950s some vehicles withdrawn from the fleet were cannibalised and the bodies cut up rather than sold on. Some vehicles acquired for spares were treated similarly, whereas others donated useful major units and other parts and then were used for parts storage. One double-decker bought in 1949 actually donated its staircase which was incorporated into the rear of the extension of the office and workshop block! Unfortunately, I did not become aware of this until the book had been published.
R W Jackson (Cleveland Coaches), Guisborough 1951 Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/15 Strachans C41C
Strachans (Successors) was in a bad way in the early 1950s. Many of the vehicles supplied to operators in the 1946-1949 period had proven less than robust (due to poor quality timber), a fault shared with bodies produced by Santus and many of the smaller coachbuilders of the time. Nevertheless it was obvious that the firm would have to offer bodywork for the new underfloor engined coach chassis, and in 1951 the company produced its first five such bodies, all on Royal Tigers. Four went to Valliant of Ealing as WMT 321-324, and the fifth to Jackson of Guisborough (east of Middlesborough on the inland road to Whitby) as illustrated here. The “Cleveland Coaches” fleetname came from the Cleveland Hills which were there for several million years before Ted Heath invented the county of Cleveland! It wasn’t a bad design, although one suspects that the front corners owed more than a little to Windover’s “Kingsway” design. No more of this style were built as Strachans introduced their new “Strathrae” design in early 1952, and this was then replaced by the better known “Everest” model in 1954. Does anybody know what happened to GVN 952 after Jackson sold it? And does anybody have a shot of one of the Valliant machines?
Photograph and Copy contributed by Neville Mercer
25/07/14 – 05:48
The reversed flashes round the front wheelarch give this coach a curious pushme-pullyou look! Of course full fronts were a new challenge for most coachbuilders at that time. At least we know the chassis would have been solid and reliable!
Andrew Goodwin
26/07/14 – 06:45
It’s worse than that, Andrew. Adding to your observation is that the way in which the body flows downwards at the rear as in the front, giving a distinct impression that two fronts have been glued together! It even seems to have an early Morris Minor front grill fitted! It’s not quite an ‘Ugly Bus’ contender, but close.
Chris Hebbron
26/07/14 – 06:45
The Aldershot & District Dennis Dominant HOU 900 had similarly styled front and rear wings as built in 1950, but, in the course of its career, the “Tracco” removed these strange embellishments in favour of straightforward, simple wheel arches. On the matter of Strachans quality, it cannot have been as bad as some of the ‘mushroom’ bodybuilders of the forties and fifties, as the Dominant lasted for some fifteen years with A&D, and was apparently sold on for further service, though I am not sure where it went.
Roger Cox
26/07/14 – 06:46
It’s a very impressive looking coach but it could have looked so much better with deeper windscreens. It’s strange how so many coachbuilders at the time felt the need for the bottom edge of the screens (on underfloor engined chassis) to curve upwards to the centre and yet others proved it was quite unnecessary. Perhaps it was a carry over from producing full front bodywork on front engined chassis. The side has a decent line to it, the reversed flashes around the wheelarches do look a bit odd but no doubt another quirk of the time was that the front end had to match the rear. It certainly looks to be of substantial construction but that was nothing to go by as far as Strachans were concerned!
Chris Barker
27/07/14 – 06:50
According to available fleet lists, Jacksons were taken over by Saltburn Motor Services in 1957 and their four vehicles included this one. Saltburn operated it until 1962 but there doesn’t appear to be any further details.
Chris Barker
29/05/19 – 05:33
R. W. Jackson Were taken over by Saltburn Motor Services in 1957 GVN 952 later passed to Moore & Cartwright a building contractor of Norton -on- Tees, Teeside in September 1964 no trace thereafter.
Booth & Fisher 1952 Leyland Royal Tiger Leyland C41C
The first Leylands bought new (in 1952) by this Derbyshire operator were two Royal Tigers; SNU 234 had this C41C body whereas SNU 235 was B44F. Chassis numbers were 520911 and 520179 respectively. School journeys to Creswell swimming baths were often on this superb vehicle, arriving far too soon for me! About seven Leylands had gone before but all were second-hand, and all buses, so this one was special. The coach only stayed until 1963 and was later with McGregor, a contractor. I’m unsure whether or not it served any other operator in-between. SNU 235 lasted until around 1969 but I have been unable to find any photographs of this one.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson
16/02/15 – 06:57
Nice!!! Thanks for posting. I wonder if Oxford Diecast can be persuaded to do a model of this one. I asked a while ago about the possibilities of having one of MTD235, but their reply didn’t leave me very hopeful. Still, the comments from Roger Cox when the Ribble version was issued – wrong shades used – might help them to get further issued right!
Pete Davies
16/02/15 – 06:58
Les, have a look at the posting of Booth and Fisher 612 JPU on this site, SNU 235 is just visible in the background. I have another slide taken the same day where SNU is in a line of 3 vehicles at the front of the depot
This design of Leyland coach body must have come as quite a shock after many years of coaches with curved waist rails. The later Ribble treatment of the lower front sill enhanced the appearance still further. Note the opening windows, they appear to be of the half(?) drop type and also the semaphore trafficator under the driver’s cab side window. The multi pane windscreen arrangement must have been a recipe for water ingress.
Ian Wild
16/02/15 – 15:47
Here is SNU 234 later in life with McGregor, contractor. Not a great shot but still worth seeing. I bought this five decades ago and photo is not back-stamped so I have no idea of copyright etc.
Les Dickinson
19/02/15 – 07:17
I am pretty sure this coach was with Cherrys of Beverly.
Ken Wragg
14/02/18 – 07:49
Yes Ian Wild you are right, the front faceted windows of the Royal Tiger coach do leak quite a bit and always did from new. I am currently restoring MTD 235 the Leyland demonstrator that was in Pennine’s fleet, it has wind-down windows and semaphore indicators below the cab – it is a very well built all-Leyland coach and a credit to the manufacturer. We have got the mechanics overhauled and am presently well on with refurbishing the interior – I hope the coach will be back on the road before too long. If anyone has any Pennine posters, notices, timetables, photographs and the like relevant to MTD 235 I would be pleased to see them to complete its history.
Phil Clark
14/02/18 – 11:23
Cherry of Beverley was the intermediate owner, SNU 234 was with them from 1963 until the sale to McGregor in 1966.
David Hick
15/02/18 – 06:14
Wonderful news, Phil. I hope to see MTD at the Tram Sunday event in the near future!
Pete Davies
15/02/18 – 06:17
Phil, Many thanks for your update re Pennine MTD 235, after the sad demise of Pennine Motors I and many others wondered what the fate of this special vehicle would be, after it being in store with Pennine for so long. I know it popped up for sale several times and then lost track of it, so well done for taking on the restoration and good luck with it!! Hope all goes well. I eagerly wait to see MTD 235 back on the road ,at the Pennine running day at some point maybe ?
Mark McAlister
21/02/18 – 07:00
It is very gratifying to know that MTD 235 is undergoing restoration & it will make a fitting tribute to Pennine & Leyland Motors (indeed Pennine was a very loyal Leyland customer). Does anybody know what has happened to the Plaxton Elite bodied Leopard which came to Pennine when still quite new when Ezra Laycock was taken over in 1972?. Pennine had put this on one side for possible preservation.
Andrew Spriggs
09/04/19 – 08:47
Thanks for the memories regarding the run from Sheffield (Eyre Street stop) to Coal Aston. I used that bus when I was 9 until I was 11 (1959-1961) as I used to travel from my school to our home in Coal Aston on the, then, new Firthwood Estate.
Southdown Motor Services Ltd 1953 Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/13 East Lancs DP40C
This photo taken in the mid sixties in Pevensey Road Eastbourne shows one of my all time favourites, one of batch of thirty No’s 1510-1539 Reg No’s MCD 510-539 delivered in 1953 it is a Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/13 with an East Lancs body delivered as DP40C and converted to B39F for OMO use in 1961 then sold in 1968. These followed a batch of ten No’s 1500-1509 Reg No’s LUF 500-509 delivered in 1952 these differed in being delivered as B40R also converted later for OMO work. My best memories of these handsome buses were in the mid fifties on the 126 route from Eastbourne to Seaford by the inland route via Alfriston and a steep climb over the South Down known as High and Over, the pleasure was much greater if I was able to bag the front N/S seat opposite the driver for which I always arrived early, the usual two cars (to use correct Southdown term) were 1528 and 1531. I little thought that about 14 years later I would be driving Leopards on the virtually same route but always wished it was one of those Royal Tigers.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave
21/05/15 – 06:45
Very nice, Dave, but wasn’t B39C a bit difficult for OMO/OPO working?
Pete Davies
21/05/15 – 06:47
Does anyone know what caused Southdown to buy East Lancs bodywork, a very accurate attractive bus but at the time East Lancs customer base was mainly in the north. Did Southdown really use these as B39C for OMO work?
Chris Hough
21/05/15 – 16:56
There is a typo in Dave’s text. Should read’ and converted to B39F I also remember travelling on these as a child, both before and after conversion, and like Dave used to go for the front seat when they were central entrance. They were replaced in 1968 with a batch of Marshall bodied manual gearbox RE’s, which I seem to remember were not to their drivers liking!
Roy Nicholson
21/05/15 – 16:58
Spot the not so deliberate mistake 1515 was of course converted to B39F for OMO/OPO work part of the conversion entailed the previously recessed N/S windscreen being made upright to accommodate the new doors when open, my apologies for my poor proof reading.
Diesel Dave
23/05/15 – 07:20
Chris Hough asks about Southdown’s use of East Lancs products – I think the first use was in the war-time rebodying of two Leyland TD1s, and eight Leyland TD2’s to utility specification, a job which East Lancs was authorised (with Willowbrook) to do, rather than body new chassis. Southdown must have been satisfied, because East Lancs was included in the re-bodying programme of Leyland TD3s, TD4s and TD5s just after WWII. This exercise included several body-builders, including Park Royal, NCME, Saunders and Beadle. 59 bodies were completed by East Lancs between 1946 and 1950. Then the 40 Royal Tigers followed, and the final 24 PD2/12’s (789-812). However Southdown multi-sourced by also ordering from Park Royal, Beadle and NCME for double-deckers in the 1950s, finally settling on NCME for the 285 Queen Mary PD3s.
Ideal Service (R Taylor & Son) 1952 Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/13 Leyland B44F
The attached Photograph dating back to the 1950 show HAV 384 in Barnsley Bus station preparing to depart for Pontefract on the Ideal service route run jointly with H Wray & Son. This vehicle was new to Simpsons of Rosehearty before being acquired by Taylors. The driver is Dennis Taylor, his older brother Len also drove. This was in fact one of the buses used on my school run on a morning and tea time to the High School and Kings School in Pontefract. This involved 5 buses on the morning and afternoon run. The morning being the worst as I lived in a village which was the last port of call into Pontefract and 1 of the 5 was the service bus you would put your hand out and eventually one would stop. Although the service ran in all weathers its time keeping was not what you would call excellent. It left the top of my village at 10 to the hour and arrived any time between 20 to and 10 past. You could always guarantee a place on the last bus from Pontefract on a Saturday night. They never left any one, a 35 seater was stopped by the police one night and 72 occupants alighted!!!
Photograph and Copy contributed by Brian Lunn
06/08/15 – 05:50
Mention of packed last buses brings to mind the apocryphal story of the last Pennine bus from Skipton which had a passenger sat alongside the engine on the near side mudguard!
Chris Hough
06/08/15 – 05:52
How very interesting! Thank you for posting this. It raises a little query which, perhaps, ought to be in the “Q&A” section. I have a bought slide of JWF 885, an Albion CX13, which was listed in my source’s catalogue as belonging to Ideal, Wray & Son, of Harrogate. We’re not talking of the same firm here, I suppose. Are we?
Pete Davies
06/08/15 – 07:54
Pete the Wrays of Harrogate I think were based at Starbeck, they were mainly a coach operation if I remember right. They sold out to Eddie Brown. H. Wray of the Ideal service were based in Lord Street Hoyle Mill Barnsley, where I think it was the 4pm out of Barnsley used to stop to fill up complete with passengers before continuing on its route.
Brian Lunn
06/08/15 – 11:22
Thank you, Brian. I thought my assorted sources might be wrong – again.
Pete Davies
06/08/15 – 11:22
JWF 885 belonged to France (Ideal Motor Services), Market Weighton, East Yorkshire.
David Hick
06/08/15 – 11:23
JWF 885 was new to Baldry of Sancton in 7/51 it passed to France’s Motors T/A Ideal of Market Weighton in 1/54, both in the East Riding of Yorkshire. JWF was a Albion FT39N with Barnaby or Scottish Aviation body!! Ideal is still operating today, but is now part of York Pullman, but is kept as a separate business still in its original green livery
Mike Davies
06/08/15 – 11:24
I’m a little puzzled here: I thought that Leyland gave up building single deck bodies, in favour of just double deck ones, as a peacetime decision, at least until it had to with the Leyland National/Lynx. Am I wrong, or was this a one-off demonstrator?
Chris Hebbron
06/08/15 – 15:40
Hi CH There are 5 pictures of post war Leyland bodied SDs on SCT ’61 photo index Body Builder-Leyland picture number 249 onwards plus more further down.
John Lomas
07/08/15 – 07:17
I read an item on Simpsons and they received three of these Tigers HAV384/5/6 There is a photo on flicker of HAV386 I also understand that the 3 were mentioned in the Leyland Bus book, however I am unable to check this as I am in the process of sorting my book storage and I can not put my had on the book in question.
Brian Lunn
07/08/15 – 07:17
Interesting to read Mike Davies’ comment about JWF 885 having a Barnaby or Scottish Aviation body. The PSV Circle records it as Barnaby but I have a recollection of visiting France at Market Weighton some 40 years ago and seeing it with a Scottish Aviation body sticker. For all that time I’ve thought I must have been mistaken but here is some other evidence that points that way. Answers on a postcard.
John Carr
07/08/15 – 07:18
Brian, it was W. Pyne & Sons who were based in Starbeck (on Camwal Road) and their white and purple coaches were a familiar sight around the area for many years. Wray’s operated from their garage at Dacre Banks, which is between Harrogate and Pateley Bridge. Their coaches usually had ‘Wray’s of Summerbridge” on the rear however – Summerbridge being a larger village, literally just over the River Nidd from Dacre Banks. (Presumably Wray’s felt people would know where Summerbridge was, but might not with Dacre Banks!). Wray’s livery was mid-grey, greeny-grey and red, and the firm’s coaches could often be seen in the summer months with windscreen stickers proclaiming “On Hire To West Yorkshire”. Indeed, some of their distinctive coaches could be often be seen parked on the forecourt of WY’s Grove Park depot in Harrogate. At one time Wray’s fleet included a Yeates-bodied AEC Reliance and Yeates-bodied Bedford SB, whose flamboyant styling provided an interesting contrast as they rubbed shoulders with the classic lines of WY’s ECW-bodied LS, MW and RE coaches.
Thanks Brendan for the correction, I remember now. I should have twigged as I travelled past their garage at Dacre Banks often. I do remember seeing the “On hire to West Yorkshire” as you say in the busy period.
Brian Lunn
07/08/15 – 17:07
Chris, your comments re Leyland single deck bodies prompted me to plough through my old issues of Classic Bus as something rang a bell (issue 5, June-July 1993). You are right that Leyland did focus on only double deck bodies immediately post war, due to the huge demand for them at the time. This lead to the successful Farington body in 1950 which was built until 1954. The single deck bodies came about following the integral Olympic project in 1949, in conjunction with MCW. After that they produced two standardised single deck bodies for the Royal Tiger, the familiar all metal, centre entrance coach body from 1950, and the rather angular bus version from 1951. Nothing followed for the Tiger Cub so, as you have stated, next in line was the National, nearly two decades later.
Mike Morton
08/08/15 – 09:24
The photo of HAV 384 could only have been taken in the mid-1960s, since Simpsons themselves were running it well into the decade. There were only two vehicles in the batch, HAV 384 and HAV 385 – the latter operated for Garner, Bridge of Weir after service with Simpsons. ‘HAV 386’ was an invention of the Ribble Vehicle Preservation Group, the vehicle which has appeared in photographs showing that registration was really ERN 709, originally Ribble 386, later with UTA/Ulsterbus. Talking of Wrays of Dacre Banks, didn’t they too finish up somewhere in the Knaresborough area? Whether or not it was Starbeck I don’t know, I don’t know the area all that well.
David Call
08/08/15 – 10:18
Well, this does get confusing. I’m glad I asked. I’m attaching a view of my bought slide, which doesn’t look to have a very green livery to me, unless it’s a combination of scanning a bought slide which may or may not have rendered the original properly, and my less than pristine eyesight. As noted in my original comment, it was listed as a CX13. Chris, Leyland built large numbers of bodies in both bus and coach form on the Royal Tiger, many of them for Ribble. They finally gave up body building in about 1953. My understanding has always been that they were too busy on chassis to afford to have anyone on building bodies. Look under Pennine in the operators section in the column on the left of the page for a view of the demonstrator Royal Tiger coach. I believe Baxters of Airdrie had a former demonstrator in bus form.
Pete Davies
08/08/15 – 15:32
Pete, I think the Baxter’s vehicle you have in mind would be NTJ 985, but it wasn’t an ex-demonstrator, it had been new to Corless of Charnock Richard. After the takeover of Baxter’s by Eastern Scottish it ran in the latter’s livery for a while. //www.sct61.org.uk/xb107
David Call
09/08/15 – 06:40
Thank you, David. Now, any other words of advice from anyone about JWF?
Pete Davies
09/08/15 – 09:57
Thanks, Mike M & Pete D for reminding me of Leyland’s coach version of the Royal Tigers’ body, which I DO recall now, working for Southdown. I never remember seeing the bus version, perhaps because they tended to be and stay ‘oop North’!
Chris Hebbron
10/08/15 – 05:43
There’s a photo of JWF at https://www.flickr.com/photos/which says it’s an FT39N with Scottish Aviation 31-seat body. In view of the size I would definitely rule out CX13, and although I have never before seen a Scottish Aviation body with a curved window line (the windows don’t look very happy, so perhaps it’s the only one they built!), the trimmings do look exactly like theirs.
Peter Williamson
10/08/15 – 11:23
Thank you, Peter W!
Pete Davies
18/08/15 – 05:40
The two buses HAV 384 and 385 left the Simpson fleet in March 1961 and October 1960. HAV 384 going directly to Taylor of Cudworth part of the Ideal consortium. They sold the vehicle to Mellers of Goxhill in October 1967. It operated for them until October 1968. HAV 385 went directly to Garner of Bridge of Weir in October 1960 and then to Tiger Coaches of Salsburgh in March 1967. From my own notes and checked with the PSV Circle publication SAD1, pre war operators in Aberdeenshire and Kincardineshire.
Stephen Bloomfield
18/08/15 – 10:36
It seems I was a few years out in my estimation of when Simpson’s disposed of HAV384 – anyway, at least it wasn’t in the 1950s. Does anyone know why Simpson’s sold HAV 384/5 at such an early age? A year or two later they were buying secondhand Royal Tigers of similar vintage. //public.fotki.com/boballoa/1/
Bournemouth Corporation 1954 Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/13 Burlingham B42F
NLJ 272 is a Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/13 with Burlingham B42F body, new to Bournemouth Corporation in 1954. She is seen on Southampton Common, while taking part in the Southampton City Transport Centenary rally on 6 May 1979.
This second view is a close one of the Royal Tiger badge. Compare the Tiger with the ‘fleetname’ on the Ellen Smith Leopard published a while ago! See it at this link
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
27/05/16 – 06:20
That brings back many memories. These buses were regulars on our ‘school dinner run’ through Winton, in the early 1960s, between two schools. They were a brighter bus than the Park Royal bodied ‘RRU’ versions, but they could be rather warm on hot sunny days, in slow-moving traffic, as the rooflights had no means of shading.
