Liverpool City Transport – AEC Regent III – JKF 933 – A690

Liverpool Corporation - AEC Regent III - JKF 933 - A690

Liverpool City Transport
1950
AEC Regent III
Weymann H??R

This bus is pre 1951 because all buses in the Liverpool fleet after that date were 8ft wide and had two side by side destination boards with route numbers above a quick link here to view an example. The bodies were supplied from Weymann as frame only they were then finished by Liverpool Corporation in their own body shops.


When new, this bus DID have 2 cream bands, one below the upper windows and the other above the lower windows – most were repainted in the early 60s as above.

Anonymous


I remember these as being quite fast and manoeuvrable, with their pre-selector gearboxes and distinctive sound. Two particular memories – one, hearing and seeing them thundering along the Strand and Goree on the heavily trafficked 1 route between Dingle and Seaforth (the bus route which effectively replaced the overhead railway) and two, being upstairs on the peak workings of the 71 between Penny Lane and I think South Castle Street, upper deck thick with tobacco fug and not a seat to spare. On full return journeys buses were able to avoid the congested city centre and skirt up the hill past the cathedral non-stop,

Anonymous


04/05/12 – 08:52

I remember driving one on a road that was VERY BENDY and went through Woolton Golf course and it was far easier than the usual AEC MK Vs we usually used. It took the bend’s beautifully.

Dave


10/10/13 – 15:51

I worked at Walton garage as a conductor and driver and I have fond memories of the number 1 route Seaforth to Dingle with a full bus of Dockers on board going to work at various docks along the Liverpool waterfront

Billy


17/04/15 – 07:04

One thing I never could understand was how the pre-selector gearbox worked…can anyone post a simple, not too technical explanation?

Mr Anon (lpl)


18/04/15 – 07:30

Here is a link to a detailed explanation.

Peter


19/04/15 – 07:31

Not many folk realise that something that many of were familiar with, when we were young, was an epicyclic gearbox; namely the Sturmey-Archer bicycle rear wheel hub, a compact gem of genius, IMHO.

Chris Hebbron


19/04/15 – 07:31

One thing that needs to be added to the article in Peter’s link is that on postwar AECs the change speed pedal operated by compressed air rather than a spring.

Peter Williamson


19/04/15 – 11:52

Guy also offered the Arab III with an air operated preselector gearbox.

Roger Cox


20/04/15 – 07:13

As usual I’m late to the party, but I thought I might as well jump on the (pre-selector) bus anyway. In previous threads contributors have written about the Daimler quadrant pre-selector selector. I’ve been puzzled as to how that worked, as opposed to a conventional selector gate, but never thought to ask . . . anybody out there care to enlighten me?
Sturmey-Archer gears = Raleigh Chopper! Pennant on the back? Tassels from the handlebars?? Playing card clothes-pegged to the rear fork to give that “motorcycle” sound??? Not me! – too sophisticated (me, not the Chopper kids) – 15sp Derailleur for me (even if I only ever used about five). But I remember the arguments in the playground as to whether one should pedal/stop pedalling/back-pedal when changing Sturmey-Archers . . . did it matter?

Philip Rushworth


21/04/15 – 06:27

To the best of my memory, the quadrant went RN1234, from nearest the driver outwards. At least LT’s CWA/CWD’s did.

Chris Hebbron


21/04/2015 06:28:26

Philip, the quadrant selector simply moved in a continuous arc as may be seen in this picture:- www.flickr.com/photos/superkevs/
One had to be careful to set the lever accurately in preselecting the next gear, or the pedal would spring back with some vehemence. The gate type selector used by AEC on the Regent III was much more positive. Earlier AEC and some Guy preselectors used a selector that looked like a conventional gear lever. Take a look at this page:- www.flickr.com/photos/preselector
Sturmey Archer bicycle gears – yes, you should stop pedalling when changing gear. The engagement of each epicycle gear is made by means of a rod (equivalent to the band brake on a bus gearbox) that locks each gear through the spindle. Keep pedalling, and you will chew it up and burr the matching gear internals to bits.

Roger Cox


21/04/15 – 09:44

Did the position of the Daimler gear-change vary even on the same model? My memory of the Portsmouth Daimler CWA6’s was of the gear select on the left side. The first link supplied by Roger shows it at the right side. As delivered, both the Portsmouth ones, and the Douglas one in the link would have been “identical”, of the CWA6 variant, and with Duple bodies. (The Portsmouth ones were rebodied in 1955 by Crossley, and appear elsewhere on this site). Perhaps my memory is incorrect, any comments welcome.

Michael Hampton


22/04/15 – 07:30

Roger, thanks for the informative post – exploring the links has filled up time why my class completed a mock examination.

Philip Rushworth


22/04/15 – 07:30

On Portsmouth’s rebuilt-bodied CWA6’s, the quadrant was definitely on the R/H side, Michael H. Never looked inside the cab of them in their original form.

Chris Hebbron


22/04/15 – 07:31

Wonderful picture Roger, (& Kev) of the cab of a Daimler CV/CW! I don’t think the CV was any less primitive. Would suit someone with strong arms and small feet. Good through-flow ventilation, too. Daimler (and others) never felt the need to promote their vehicles once sold- the fluted (often painted) radiator and a couple of D bosses on the front wheels (possibly?) were the only indicators. Leyland seemed to encourage you to put your own badge on the radiator, too. That all changed with the bustle buses with huge flutes, Atlas et al, although Leyland had rarely anything to put on the front of an Atlantean, unlike the St Helens front. Enough rambling: I think the quadrant was on the right on a CV?

Joe


23/04/15 – 07:02

Thanks Chris H for confirming the quadrant position. Clearly my memory is playing tricks! I only remember these in their rebodied form, even though I lived in the area when they were in original condition.

Michael Hampton


23/04/15 – 07:03

Manchester’s and Derby’s CAVs were certainly on the right Hand side. I have never driven nor seen one with it on the left.
Because the settings used to wear, the gear was never where the mark was on the quadrant, so Drivers used to put pencil marks on it. There were that many marks on them, you still never knew where it was.
You then used to put your own Mark on adding to the confusion.
I loved driving pre-select buses, they also made you read the road, having the correct gear selected was important to keep up steady and speedy progress.
BUT watch out for the pedal kicking back, it did hurt, OUCH.

Stephen Howarth


23/04/15 – 08:32

Roger wrote :-
“One had to be careful to set the lever accurately in preselecting the next gear, or the pedal would spring back with some vehemence.”
Roger, that’s definitely the finest and most eloquent description of the dangerous fault exhibited by the spring operated gearboxes that I’ve ever heard. the problem was, of course, even worse as not only did the pedal spring back with the vehemence mentioned but also came considerably further out than was the norm, which is how the pain and often injury occurred.
Incidentally it was also necessary to raise a button to allow the quadrant lever to travel beyond neutral to select reverse. A further pitfall for fresh or inattentive drivers was to set off with gusto in first gear and to fail to preselect second gear – then a little later when correctly allowing the engine revs to die down before letting the pedal out you were likely to find the passengers and conductor trying to join you in the cab – the violent braking effect thus achieved would have given a very favourable reading on the Tapley Meter brake tests !!

Chris Youhill


24/04/15 – 06:25

Chris Y, we have obviously both suffered the less than tender mercies of the spring operated preselector when not treated precisely in accordance with ‘the book’. One could always pick out the casualties by their progress round the depot in their accurate impressions of Laurence Olivier in the role of Richard III. The pedal would come back twice as far as normal with the force of all the springs in the box (or so it seemed) generally thrusting one’s left knee into violent contact with the steering column. I wonder how modern companies would get on with such a gearbox in this age of compensation culture and ambulance chasing litigators. Your vivid description of the outcome of a lapse of memory in not preselecting the next upward gear is something that I must put my hand up to having enacted occasionally. The ensuing ‘g’ forces restored one’s concentration at lightening speed, so that one shoved and held the gear pedal down instantly. Ah, happy, joyous days. The modern crop of bus steering wheel attendants don’t know what a gearbox is.

Roger Cox


24/04/15 – 06:26

You have conjured up a wonderful image of said passengers and conductor crammed into the cab with the driver Chris! Very descriptive, and it made me chuckle. I’m sure I read somewhere in the distant past, that the height of the gearchange pedal on some buses with spring-operated preselector gearboxes varied, dependent on which gear the vehicle was in. Is this correct, or is it, to quote Hylda Baker “a figleaf of my imagination?”

Brendan Smith


24/04/15 – 08:47

Brendan Smith you are correct in thinking that the ‘Change speed pedal’ (sometimes referred to as ‘The Tripper pedal’), was at different heights depending on which gear it was in. Lowest being neutral, and highest being top, in normal driving.
Not only was your knee jammed under the steering wheel but your heel was stuck under the seat frame. This along with your foot held on the pedal, made it virtually impossible to apply any pressure to push the pedal down against the 5 springs. Hence the need of outside assistance in returning it to the normal settings.
At Derby we had a Driver called ‘Tripper Wood’ so named because he had been kicked by the pedal so many times, he used to slide his foot off quickly to avoid such occurrences.
He gave a very rough ride, but had a regular mate, who, I guess was used to his driving style.

Stephen Howarth


25/04/15 – 09:23

There was just one ray of hope in the spring operated “kick back” scandal. If you were lucky enough to survive without injury to the ankle, and your foot was not trapped, it was usually possible to apply both feet to the extended pedal while heaving the shoulders against the cab rear window area – first of course making sure to positively select neutral. This usually worked, although Goodness knows what the passengers must have thought to the performance !!

Chris Youhill


26/04/15 – 07:48

For completeness I should add that later CVGs had a gear selector gate on the left, very similar to the one on the Regent III. Later still, when air brakes were offered, the gearbox could be either Daimatic (like the Fleetline) or air-operated preselect like the Regent III. But the spring-operated type continued to the end on vacuum-braked chassis.

Peter Williamson


28/04/15 – 06:59

Thanks for confirmation of the gearchange pedal positioning Stephen, and your reference to “tripper pedal” which I have not heard before, but is a very descriptive phrase. I had read that drivers’ knees were prone to a severe blow if the pedal kicked back, and Roger and Chris Y have also mentioned this, but how many of us realised that a driver could end up trapped with his knee under the steering wheel and heel under the seat frame? It sounds absolutely scandalous that such events could be deemed acceptable by manufacturers and operators alike, and must have led to severe bruising, and in extreme cases to fractures and torn ligaments/tendons, which are no laughing matter. On a lighter note however, Roger’s comment about injured drivers doing impressions of Richard III raised a chuckle. Presumably they would have preferred the RT’s air-operated system, but its only a hunch…..

Brendan Smith


23/01/17 – 07:33

As a child I recognised these AEC Regents which dominated route 1 from 1957 to 1967.
Route 1 was the last route to employ 7ft 6 ins wide buses full time. The 1 allocation was drawn from the ranks of 9.6 litre preselector buses A325-349, later A525 etc, and A657-756. When route 1 started the roads in the south docks were unsuitable for buses and it was not until autumn 1958 that the council paved the Dingle area roads. The route north of the Pier Head had similar problems but a parallel route was adopted for the 1 which was not too far from the docks.Buses replacing the Overhead Railway had three problems, paving being one but the others were the need for the buses to climb Dingle Mount whereas the LOR burrowed through the cliffs, which meant the powerful 9612Es were essential for the task. The other obstacle was Stanley Dock Bridge which, 7′ 6″ wide buses could pass each other but not wider buses. This was not resolved till the 1990s and so when the narrower buses were withdrawn during 1967/68 buses had to take turns to cross the bridge. The 1 route, under Merseyside PTE a shadow of its former self as a frequent route vanished on deregulation in 1986. Some extracts of this sourced from Liverpool Transport Vol. 4 1939-57 by Messrs Horne & Maund.

Paul Mason

York Pullman – AEC Regent III – LDN 96 – 67

York Pullman - AEC Regent III - LDN 96 - 67

York Pullman Bus Company Ltd
1955
AEC Regent III 6812A 
Roe H33/27RD

Whilst researching this bus I noticed that York Pullman got there first double deck buses the year prior to this bus in 1954 they were 3 Regent IIIs. I have photos of two of them which I will upload one day. I also noticed that they only had 10 double deckers in there whole history until being swallowed up by Yorkshire Rider in 1990 the York Pullman name was sold to Kingston upon Hull City Transport I think for coach operations.

A full list of Regent III codes can be seen here.


My Auntie Ada (Wilson) used to be a clippie on York Pullman – I remember when they had the half hour stop over in Easingwold, she and the driver would turn up at our house for a cuppa and a bun. Can’t remember any of the drivers, this would be in the late 50s, early 60s maybe. Ada was married to my Uncle Ted. They lived off Lawrence Street between James St and Granville Terrace.

Sue Thorn


I have just been reading the above comments and yes I remember Ada and Ted and also George Tyler. I believe George had the nickname Eggie because he used to be a driver delivering eggs. My Dad, Gerry Rank worked for York Pullman from 1939 until his retirement in 1990. He was a mechanic/driver. I have ridden many miles on their buses and coaches. My Mum was also a clippie, Molly, until I was born in 1956

Liz Greene nee Rank


21/10/11 – 06:41

I remember these Regents from when I was stationed at Linton-on -Ouse during my National Service in 1956. They were always clean and tidy

Jim Hepburn


16/07/12 – 06:30

pullmans ex garage

I think this must be the very last photo of Pullman’s garage in Navigation Road. It was an empty cavern the day before and flattened the day after. I had the quick thinking to take the camera along or I would have missed it.
They’re back out on service work again and concentrating of coaching which has noticeably increased.

Steve Oxbrow


16/07/12 – 16:21

The staff of the ‘New’ York Pullman Co did rescue the name letters from over the door. Now at the depot in Rufforth. Where the office (reopened) in Bootham tower. Now used for the same job by Transdev.

Steve Oxbrow


16/07/12 – 18:17

Oh how sad! I’m glad to have seen it but I almost wish I hadn’t if you know what I mean. I’ve so many lovely memories of this depot and the York Pullman company. Progress, I think It’s called!

Alan Hall


16/07/12 – 18:17

When was the photo taken, Steve?

Chris Hebbron


17/07/12 – 07:06

If it is any comfort, I looked on Google Earth and found that when the current image was taken, the walls from the temporary fence onwards were still in existence. The main building nearest the camera however has gone totally and is now a block of flats but then, they are quite attractive so at least the land went to good use. I fear that by now, all of the rest has gone the same way unless “saved” by the recession.

Richard Leaman


17/07/12 – 07:07

Am I correct in talking about the Regent that belonged to the late Tony Peart that it has a replacement top deck as I heard that it was badly damaged in a low bridge accident and had to return to Crossgates for rebuilding.

Philip Carlton


17/07/12 – 17:45

Philip There is a picture in the Geoff Lumb book about Roe showing the Regent prior to repair awaiting its turn at Crossgates.

Chris Hough


31/01/13 – 05:56

It was JDN 668 (Fleet No 64) that Tony Peart bought and took to many shows until he died and I believe now it is at a museum at Lincoln

Liz Greene nee Rank


01/02/13 – 06:03

Just to say that York Pullman 64 is indeed at the Lincolnshire Road Transport Museum and it is expected to be on show and give rides this Easter Sunday . A lovely bus !

Steve Milner


05/04/13 – 05:34

I was a driver for York Pullman from 1972 till 1985.
I remember very well driving the AEC double decker, fleet no 64, 65, 71, 72 plus two half cabs.
I also remember Gerry Rank and George Tyler plus Ada Connell and her husband Noel, there was so many employees at that time and back in 1972 getting drivers to stay was most difficult because of the low wages.
I found it was sad when the old directors decided to sell out and recall at the time it only took the new owners a couple of years to wreck a very good and long established bus company.

Brian Gallier

Bradford Corporation – AEC Regent III – FKY 24 – 24

Bradford Corporation - AEC Regent III - FKY 24 - 24

Bradford Corporation Transport
1950
AEC Regent III 9612E 
Weymann H30/26R

This photo was taken just up the road from the Alhambra Theatre passing the entrance of the old bus station. This 1950 Regent III is on route to Queensbury and believe you me it is uphill all the way. There is a good saying referring to Queensbury which is just under 1000 feet above sea level it goes like this “Queensbury has 3 months of winter and 9 months of bad weather” not strictly true but its a good Yorkshireism.

A full list of Regent III codes can be seen here.

Bus tickets issued by this operator can be viewed here.


AEC Regent III 9612E with 8ft wide Weymann Body one of the 1-40 batch 1949/50. FKY 1 to 40.
Riding on them almost every day to school these became my favourite buses of all time and I used to know the 18 or so based at Horton Bank Top Shed as old friends. They were a good buy with last ones 7 and 13 going in 1970 and were preferred to the later tin front East Lancs ones 66-105 who’s bodies were not as good. Sadly none were preserved, indeed I don’t think there are any Regent III pre-selectors with the popular 8ft Weymann flared skirt body preserved, anywhere.

Kev


I also loved these buses as I lived in Great Horton from 1954 to 1971 and travelled on these buses nearly every day and I nearly have some 100 pictures of them some of which I took myself at bank top shed in the mid 60’s although not very good and I also have the original front number plate of FKY 17 (maybe the only surviving part of any of these buses) the nearest surviving bus I find to these is Morecambe & Heysham 73 which is under restoration at the Keighley Bus Museum.

Norman Shepherd


I can remember hearing the melodious tones of these vehicles whining their way up Great Horton Road on a Sunday morning when all was quiet and little traffic around. I have the back number plate off FKY 13 and dozens of photographs of them in service. FKY 1 was the first bus I wanted to preserve, but unfortunately this was not to be. Instead I have to endure “Bullnose” HKW 82 (nowhere near as handsome) and RT HLW 159 (not originally a Bradford bus) but that noise still haunts me to this day!!!!!

David Hudson


07/09/11 – 14:59

It’s interesting to observe the trend with these bodies to bring the paint down the front corners of the roofs. Amongst other operators, it was done with the postwar ‘provincial’ London Transport STL’s (and, bizarrely, one prewar RT late in life!)

Chris Hebbron


06/11/11 – 07:14

The paint style used on these vehicles varied over the years. When new the roofs were grey, and this did not come down the corners. They also had thin orange lining under the windows. Later the roofs were blue but they were not painted down the corners initially, this only happening in later years. Also there are variations as to where the cream was on the lower nearside bulkhead.

David Hudson


06/11/11 – 22:00

I recall these buses being used on the joint B.C.T and Yorkshire Woollen District service 4 to Dewsbury.

Philip Carlton


07/11/11 – 07:35

Trolleybuses 752-759 (FKU 752-9) had the same Weymann bodies, apart of course from the lower deck front end. In May 1952, 758 became the first British bus with flashing trafficators; it was the only one of the batch to survive until the end of the system, and is now preserved.

Martin S


07/11/11 – 12:16

752-759 were 5 bay though.
758 is slowly being restored at Sandtoft, under BTA (Bradford Trolleybus Association) ownership. My recollections of the 1-40 batch were that they were absolutely superb buses, and the quietest motorbuses I ever rode on. 1-22 (or 23?) were shedded at Banktop depot when new, as tram replacements, and were the most immaculate buses in the fleet for many years.

John Whitaker


29/01/13 – 15:33

I went to Bradford often as it was my favourite trolleybus system. The first visit was Saturday August 5th 1967 on a Dennis Loline from Manchester on the X12. Strange to recall that same vehicle 906 has been modelled by EFE on the X12! The trolleybus on that day were wonderful to see and ride on. However I also became aware of two other interesting observations. Firstly the constant drone of Bristol engined West Yorkshire Lodekkas slogging up Manchester Road to turn into the bus station and secondly the melodic sounds of Regent V buses echoing across the hills around the city centre. I always liked these buses despite being trolley replacements at various times. Used them on the joint service to Leeds the 72. The last time I rode on one was on one of the Christmas day services run from Keighley and I have a lovely video recording of 220 going to Dick Hudsons on another occasion.

Ralph Oakes-Garnett


15/11/19 – 07:26

Looks very similar to Burys pair, BEN 176/7, which became Selnec 6376/7. These were two of my favourite buses and one is preserved, 177.

David Pomfret


16/11/19 – 06:22

Re FKY 24 I have in my possession a roundel from an AEC wheel. Endorsed on the back ‘From the hub of FKY24 – B.C.P.T. Ticker’.
I guess Ticker worked at the Bingley breakers yard. For full story and 2 pictures go to “Flea Market Find” .

Roy Dodsworth

Samuel Ledgard – AEC Regent III – GWY 157

 
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Samuel Ledgard Ltd
1948
AEC Regent III
Roberts H30/26R

This bus started life with another independent operator, Felix Motors of Hatfield near Doncaster and was number 26 in there fleet, it was new to them in 1948 and was sold on to Samuel Ledgard in 1962.
Samuel Ledgard were different to other bus operators in the fact that they did not have fleet numbers, I don’t know why, maybe you do? if you do please leave a comment.
If you want to know what the livery of Samuel Ledgard looked like there is a colour shot here
This bus has a Roberts body of which I know absolutely nothing, and the only thing that comes up on “Google” is as quoted below which is from the Lincolnshire Vintage Vehicle Society website regarding Colchester Corporation Daimler CVD6 No. 4, if you know anything about Roberts bodies please leave a comment.

“Roberts were an unusual choice of bus body builder – they were more commonly associated with railway vehicles and occasional trams. The body is unusually heavy – weighing about half a ton more than most buses of similar size. This affected the fuel consumption of these vehicles and may have been a factor in the decision to cancel the second batch of five”
To see more regarding the above quote go here

Bus tickets issued by this operator can be viewed here.

A full list of Regent III codes can be seen here.

Charles Roberts of Wakefield built this and many other bodies, including Sheffield’s last trams and Blackpool’s Coronation cars.

John Hibbert

“It is no wonder that the Roberts bodies were so heavy as the quality, both in structure and in fittings, was of the very highest. They also managed to present a comforting vintage appearance and ambience but without looking “old fashioned.” Superb varnished woodwork was everywhere, and the top quality heavy leather seats were of the best. GWY 157 was a fine machine but ended its Ledgard career rather strangely allocated to Yeadon Depot – normally a lowbridge stronghold – and therefore only realistically available for school journeys avoiding Henshaw Lane.
Why there was never a fleet numbering scheme I have no idea, but certainly the firm managed very well without one. Any confusion was normally avoided by allocating vehicles with similar registrations to different depots – there were quite a few cases of this over the years. However, in the run up to the West Yorkshire takeover most of the fleet were allocated fleet numbers before the last minute decision was taken to re-licence many of West Yorkshire’s own withdrawn vehicles instead. For example, PNW 91/2/3 were to be DLW 1/2/3, the RTs were to be DA 1-34 etc etc. What a shame this never came to be!!

Chris Youhill

New 1/9/48
AEC Regent III 0961
Chassis No: 1684
Entered Ledgard fleet 19/01/62

Terry Malloy

Although it was unusual for a bus company not to use fleet numbers, I seem to recall that East Kent Road Car also managed to operate successfully without them. Presumably staff simply referred to their buses by the digits on the registration plates?

Brendan Smith

26/03/11 – 07:25

Burton upon Trent Corporation operated 6 Guy Arab 111 5LW’s with lowbridge Roberts bodies, delivered 1947. See photograph on p51 May 2009 issue of Vintage Roadscene.
These vehicles also had heavy leather seating and varnished interior timber trim – painted over by the Corporation mid 50’s. They developed a sagging roofline quite early in their lives.

Clive Baker

Hull Corporation – AEC Regent III – OKH 336 – 336

Hull Corporation AEC Regent III

Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport
1953
AEC Regent III
Weymann “AuroRa” H32/26R

Regent III I hear you shout, yes I thought it was a Daimler as well, until Paul Morfitt a K.H.C.T. expert pointed it out to me. K.H.C.T. bought 6 of these Regent IIIs with the Birmingham style tin front, they were apparently the last front engine/open platform buses bought brand new by them. Fleet number 337 is now fully preserved and should be out on the rally circuit next summer (2010) so keep your eye out for it. There is also a restored Bradford City Transport Regent III with a similar tin front it can be seen here.


04/04/13 – 06:28

The Weymann Aurora body is something of an enigma. The first one – also co-incidentally on an AEC Regent III with tin front – was built for Devon General and exhibited on the MCW stand at Earls Court in 1952 alongside the prototype Orion. An MCW sales brochure was produced, which was still being distributed two years later, but no more bodies of that type were ever built. In the meantime Weymann had been building this much more elegant design, which most people agree bears no resemblance to the prototype described in the brochure, and which could instead be traced back much more clearly to earlier Weymann bodies. It is almost as though Weymann simply thumbed its nose at the MCW design team and just carried on with their own design evolution as if nothing had happened.
To confuse matters still further, a brief article in a recent edition of Classic Bus magazine, describing the prototype (which is now preserved) as unique, it was answered by not one but two letters referring to production Auroras as “virtually identical” to the prototype – one of them referring to these Hull vehicles and the other I think to some Bristols for Maidstone and District. It seems that resemblance, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder!

Peter Williamson


04/04/13 – 08:29

The Aurora is certainly an enigma – and a trap for those who only know half the story. I too have been puzzled by the lack of similarity between to prototype and production versions but the Weymann Story (in two volumes Senior/Venture) is very clear. The Aurora name was used for these modernised versions of the classic Weymann design (produced from 1953 to 1959). The MCCW Orion design was produced at Addlestone from about 1953 (the first being re-bodies of war time Guys for Maidstone & District). Interestingly, Addlestone were also building Aurora bodies on war time Bristols for M & D. What most people didn’t realise – me included – is that the Aurora name was then resurrected as the official and proper name for the forward entrance version on the Orion.

David Oldfield


04/04/13 – 11:03

Just remembered the Bournemouth trolleys which had the Aurora as late as 1962.

David Oldfield


04/04/13 – 11:04

NTT 679

Here is a photo of the preserved one-off 1952 Aurora, Devon General NTT 679, taken at the Devon General Running Day at Newton Abbott in 1993.

John Stringer


04/04/13 – 15:49

The main difference between the prototype Aurora and the production model seems to be the move from pan window fixing to rubber mounting.

Here is an example of the production version as supplied to Birkenhead Corporation in 1954. Apart from being on an exposed radiator chassis, it differs from the Hull version in having a 5-bay body. The traditional Weymann drooping saloon window is much in evidence. Birkenhead dabbled with Weymann as a body supplier. The batch of 10 Auroras was not the whole of the CBG intake, the remaining 5 of the batch having locally-built Ashcroft bodies. The 1955 intake of 17 vehicles (10 PD2 and 7 Arab IV) saw half the PD2s bodied with the Orion style, and finally in 1964 came the one-off batch of 10 Fleetlines, again with Orion style, one of which appears on the left of the picture. (Originally delivered with the cream relief as window surrounds only, the appearance of the Fleetlines was much improved with the application of the standard livery on repaint, as seen here.)

Alan Murray-Rust


05/04/13 – 05:51

To me there are more differences than similarities. On the prototype, the dimensions of the windows – deep lower, shallow upper – are more like a production Orion than any other Aurora (and the deep lower deck windows were made much of in the sales brochure). On the production version, as Alan says, the traditional Weymann drooping bulkhead window is much in evidence, whereas on the prototype the top rail is straight and only the bottom curved, again just like most highbridge Weymann Orions. In fact the only similarities I can find (using other images) are in the front and rear domes and the rear emergency window.

Peter Williamson


23/04/13 – 07:50

My favourite bus, thin steering wheel and a smooth seat which you could slide off on exit from a roundabout and if it was a hot day and your cab door was open it could be interesting. A lot of drivers didn’t like them because you couldn’t see the pavement from the cab. I thought they were great, the exhaust would roar when you put your foot down.

box501


03/06/14 – 12:52

The Daimler and Guy Utilities of Maidstone and District were rebodied with a later form of five bay Weymann body derived from the pre and early post war design but with deeper windows upstairs. Only some Utility Bristol K6As had four bay ‘Aurora’ or five bay ‘Orion’ bodies. The only Orion bodied Guys which Maidstone and District had, were the Guy Arab IVs acquired or ordered by Chatham and District which were based on new post war chasses.

Gordon Mackley

Halifax Corporation – AEC Regent III – CCP 611 – 79


Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee
1951
AEC Regent III
Park Royal H30/26R

This Regent III of Halifax corporation is parked outside The Shay football ground probable waiting to take fans back to the town centre, but as I can not see the driver or conductor perhaps they have gone to the match. This bus has the same triangular destination area as the previous Daimler CV which was new in 1954 so the new layout of a separate number box above the destination came about for the 1956 batch of Daimlers.

Sheffield Corporation – AEC Regent III – SWE 296 – 2196

Sheffield Corporation AEC Regent III

Sheffield Corporation
1954
AEC Regent III
Weymann H32/26R

I must admit that I have come up with the above information on a bit of a wing and a prayer after searching Google and my regular informative web sites I think I am right. But if I am wrong I will not be upset if you correct me, please leave a comment. I am not sure about a white livery for buses especially in large towns they have a tendency to look a bit dirty “all the time”.

Part of the batch of 36, these were the last exposed radiator buses for Sheffield Corporation and JOC. There were preceded, in 1953/54, by over 50 Leyland PD2s, with near identical bodies, which were the first of hundreds of tram-replacement buses.

David Oldfield

West Riding – AEC Regent III – DHL 922 – 711


Copyright Unknown

West Riding Automobile
1951
AEC Regent III
Roe L50R

Another bus from the large West Yorkshire independent this time an AEC Regent III. West Riding did not favour any particular make of vehicle they had various models from each of AEC, Leyland, Daimler and Guy. How much nicer this bus would have looked with a shiny radiator instead of a painted one.


I don’t know who the photographer was but the location is Pontefract Bus Station. The bus is on the 192 service to Selby, which ran every two hours and which I caught home from school. The route was taken over from Bullock’s (B&S Motor Service) in 1950.

Del


Although the date of acquisition is 1951, the painted radiator may be a hangover from the Bullock and Sons takeover in 1950, as all their vehicles had painted radiators. West Riding also generally kept the buses acquired from B&S on the former B&S routes.
An interesting feature about this vehicle was the passenger seat design. The double seats, at least in the lower saloon, had a kind of staggered design to allow easy access to the window seat.

TC


The bus is most likely to have been allocated to the former B & S depot at Chimes Road, Selby which was demolished in the late 1990s and replaced with the present new one near the railway station. I did a fair amount of work out of both premises until retiring (from Pontefract depot) in May 2001 – I did many a trip on the modern version of this route and, although the Selby fleet was interesting and well maintained, never with a vehicle as delightful as the one shown.

Chris Youhill


09/06/11 – 08:43

This bus is not ex B&S the fleet number is too high it is one of batch of 10 and was allocated to Featherstone depot, at the time of this photo. as to the radiator if you look at photos of ex B&S AEC Regents they have chrome radiators AHL 927 fleet number 295 is a good example of this (can be seen in David W Allen’s book West Riding 2 page 71

Stan


28/10/11 – 16:20

Further to my last comment this bus was new to West Riding, in 1952, a full two years after they bought B&S so impossible to be ex B&S

Stan


28/10/11 – 16:26

I quite agree Stan, BBF 9 as the ex B&S Regents as BHL 641-3 and BHL 926 – 319-22 built in 1948

Peter


09/12/12 – 07:56

An excellent book called West Riding 1 in the Super Prestige range by David W Allen has nearly all West Riding bus and coach photographs in including several A.E.C centre entrance double deckers in both red and green livery. I worked at Belle Isle depot as an apprentice from 1956 and often travelled into the City centre on one of these fine machines. The pre select gearbox made them quick off the mark and ideal for city work because of the twin staircase and wide entrance.

Barrie Micklethwaite


09/12/12 – 11:43

Barrie – your last observation is so very true even though it applies to a totally different era, but quick loading was as important then as it OUGHT to be now. The Industry has completely lost the plot nowadays, admittedly partly “pushed” by such things as buggy accessibility etc. Towards the end of my career as a driver, and still as a passenger, I despair at the impossibility of present designs with a single doorway and the buggy/wheelchair bay right opposite the bottom of the staircase. Add to this the “double standard” operator publicity to “remain seated until the vehicle stops” by managements who know full well that if all passengers did so, in both saloons, the peak period buses would still be out after Midnight.
I must make clear that I am all in favour of good and sympathetic service for the passengers (and these modern “customers” whoever they are !!) but there are only sixty minutes in the hour. I have a wide experience of trying to keep time with single doorway buses and, due to resolutely refusing ever to drive badly, I was frequently late on busy journeys and man enough to shoulder all the resultant sneering and abuse from all quarters. Knowing full well that I could put up a good verbal defence on this issue the Management were never brave enough to tackle me about it and, had they done so, they would have been shot down in factual and statistical flames !!
Just in conclusion, notice how multiple doorways in London and on the Continent keep the bus moving, and all the much hyped nonsense about serious passenger accidents are wildly exaggerated – that’s not to deny that extra diligence from drivers is essential on such vehicles.

Chris Youhill


05/10/14 – 11:07

With reference to the AEC double decker, I used conduct on the Selby route when I started there in 1962 ,it started at Halfpenny Lane Pontefract on the odd hour went via Pontefract bus station to Selby, but the other buses Leyland PD1 and 2s and old Guys and Guy Arabs used to operate on the 192 Selby run.

Les Cranswick


06/10/14 – 16:45

Sidil Morsat

TC – Noting your comment on the ‘staggered’ double seat design, I wonder whether this was in fact another example of the Sidil Morsat experimental seat of the period.

John Darwent

Hebble – AEC Regent III – CJX 69 – 268


Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Hebble Motor Services
1952
AEC Regent III
Willowbrook L55R

This is one of the last batch of Regent IIIs Hebble took delivery of, to say it was new in 1952 it looks as if it was built well before that. I think it is the drivers sloping small window that makes it look older. Although from what I can gather the Willowbrook bodywork had excellent interior finish.

15/08/11 – 13:20

This batch or Regents were type 9612A (A=crash gears) which was a change from the previous Roe bodied Regents which were type 9612E (E=epicyclic pre-selector). I remember them on the Joint Bradford-Huddersfield route 64

Kev

Felix Motors – AEC Regent III – LWY 942 – 33


Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Felix Motors Ltd (Hatfield) 
1953
AEC Regent III
Roe H31/25R

Felix motors was started in 1921 the company was named after “Felix the Cat” a cartoon character of the time, for some time the cartoon image was used as an emblem on the side of the vehicles. I have seen a photograph on the web somewhere of one of there vehicles showing the Felix logo if I find it again I will update with a link to it.

A full list of Regent III codes can be seen here.


The other Felix company in Derbyshire also used Felix as a logo but were recently threatened with legal action by the film company which owns the rights so it has now been dropped. Both Felix companies used similar liveries but the Derby one has as far as I know always used saloons

Chris Hough


Absolutely right Chris – you will find a Willebrew ticket from Felix (N Frost) of Stanley Derbyshire, on the tickets side of the website.

Stephen Ford


06/12/11 – 06:47

I wrote a book about the ‘other’ Felix a few years ago and it would appear that both of company histories shared a similar beginning. ‘My’ Felix started in 1921 and was named after a popular song of the day – Felix kept on walking. The first vehicle R 7831 which carried a cartoon cat emblem over the front window was sold to the above Felix in 1926 (it was suggested that this was why the Hatfield based company was named Felix but I never found any proof of this).
Sadly it has just been reported that Felix (Stanley, Derbyshire) is to cease on 29th January 2012 after being taken over by TrentBarton – the local large bus company. Hope this is of interest.

Paul D Chambers


30/10/12 – 05:57

Felix in Stanley Derbyshire are now showing ‘Black Cat’ on the side, but are run by Trent/Barton.

John Swan


07/10/13 – 17:38

I recall seeing Felix buses in Doncaster but had no idea of the origin of the name. I suppose I assumed it was the proprietor’s name or else the Latin for “happy”!
Early on Felix ran some Leyland Tigers but no others from the Leyland “zoo”, being mainly an AEC operator.

Geoff Kerr


08/10/13 – 07:39

Geoff – somewhere, in an article long ago, there appears a magnificent lady driver in WW2 just climbing elegantly into the cab of a prewar Felix Regent in Doncaster. She is dressed in a long white smock and sports a very chic 1930s hat and, if I remember rightly, a long skirt in lieu of the usual slacks.

Chris Youhill


08/10/13 – 12:51

She was clearly ‘doing her bit, don’t ya know! A change from driving the Rolls, what with the fuel rationing!”

Chris Hebbron


08/10/13 – 17:55

Nay Lad, not in them parts….
Actually, if you read Peter Gould’s potted history, its all there. www.petergould.co.uk/local_transport_history/fleetlists/felix.htm  
Notice, too, how buses from them parts seem to have two fog lamps…

Joe