Category: Photos

Bristol Tramways – Bristol LS – NHU 2 – 2800

NHU 2

Bristol Tramways & Carriage Company Limited
1950
Bristol LSX5G
ECW B42D

This Bristol LSX5G with chassis number LSX.001 was new to Bristol Tramways in 1950 and has an Eastern Coachworks B42D body numbered 4978. It was, as its chassis number suggests, a prototype. Seen here at the Bristol Waterfront Running Day 22/05/2011.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

07/06/15 – 10:12

Nice, Les! Another for me to delete from my list of possible future submissions . . .

Pete Davies

08/06/15 – 07:25

MAH 744

This image is scanned from my original print so not great, however it is a piece of history. The two prototypes were together for the first time in 54 years here at Showbus 2005. The red one is Eastern Counties LL744 and registered MAH 744 with chassis number LSX002 and Eastern Coachworks B42F body 4255. Not a great shot but I thought it worth sharing.

Les Dickinson

08/06/15 – 16:10

I hadn’t realised until I saw the LS at this angle just how American are the lines of this bus enhanced perhaps by the rear doors.

Orla Nutting

09/06/15 – 06:03

Orla, just seen this and my thoughts were exactly the same. They would not looked out of place in any US city in the 50s and 60s.

Phil Blinkhorn

10/06/15 – 06:41

You can find the same in cars of that era. It’s really the front end with the decorative bits and anti-glare windscreen that does it- but what is the central light for? A foglight was at a lower level, usually nearside, illuminating the kerb. This is higher on (2) and in the middle?

Joe

10/06/15 – 08:24

I think that it was a fashionable idiosyncrasy at the time. Think of contemporary cars like the then Rover 75 and Austin A90 Atlantic. They never really caught on and eventually were phased out by Rover and the A90, though very eye catching, didn’t appeal to either the UK or American market (where the 1948 Tucker ‘car of the future’ was similarly equipped). Similarly in France the early ’50’s Panhard Dyna had a central oblong foglight in the bumper but these too were designed out on later models (pretty impractical anyway given French street parking practices!).

Orla Nutting

21/06/15 – 05:52

Nice photos Les, and its lovely to see the two LS prototypes together again as you say. They are both interesting vehicles in their own right. The ‘Bristol Bristol’ (LSX001) was originally powered by an experimental horizontal version of the Bristol AVW engine – this experimental power unit being designated XWA, with the production version becoming the LSW. A Gardner 5HLW engine was fitted in 1953, along with 8ft wide axles in lieu of the original 7ft-6″ ones, and the bus was converted to single-door layout in 1956. (It’s great to see that LSX001 has been restored to original B42D configuration, which must have involved a fair bit of time, effort and money to say the least, and it is a credit to everyone concerned).
Relating to the Eastern Counties Bristol (LSX002), this vehicle was fitted with a Gardner 4HLW engine from new. Generally LS vehicles were powered by either Bristol LSW, or Gardner 5HLW/6HLW engines, but ECOC did take delivery of further LS4Gs, but I believe this was a small batch of five vehicles. Both prototypes had aluminium alloy underframes, to reduce weight, but production LS underframes were of pressed steel, which was easier to weld and was less expensive. Despite the use of a steel underframe however, the LS in bus form with Gardner 5HLW engine tipped the scales at around 6.25 tons, which is very creditable. Economy was also good, with Southern and Western National’s LS5G buses apparently averaging 15mpg on country services – aided no doubt by 5-speed overdrive gearboxes.

Brendan Smith

07/06/16 – 18:46

The memory is probably going, but I think I recall Bristol LS coaches prior to the introduction of the MW. These had deeper windscreens with rounded corners and I always thought them to be a prettier body. I’m remembering back to Southampton coach station in the 1960’s(that milk machine had the best strawberry milk on the South Coast!)and I am sure that Royal Blue, Southern National & possibly Hants & Dorset examples used to visit there. Do we have any photos?

David field

08/06/16 – 06:01

LTA 867

The handsome early style of ECW coach body for the Bristol LS that David describes appeared in 1952. Royal Blue had a batch of fourteen of this type delivered in that year with C41F bodywork (though the LS was an integral vehicle, of course). They were all reseated to C39F in 1960. Here is LTA 867, fleet number 1279, leaving Victoria Coach Station for Bournemouth in the summer of 1961.

Roger Cox

09/06/16 – 06:47

Roger, would this particular version of the LS coach body be the one where the front windscreens wound down into the dash panel? There doesn’t appear to be any other method of opening and I believe it was still a requirement at the time that the drivers windscreen, at least, should have the capability. I imagine it wouldn’t be possible to wind them down to a point where the wipers could become trapped on the inside of the glass!

Chris Barker

09/06/16 – 16:52

Yes, the LS coach windscreens do wind down into the dash panel. Those who admire this style of Royal Blue coachwork may like to note that one of this style is expected on the 2016 Royal Blue run – details at //www.tvagwot.org.uk/event-royalblue.htm.  
That style only applied to the 1952 built LS coaches – those built from 1953 onwards having the windscreens made of two flat sections, the upper one being hinged at the top, in the same way as the first style of MW coach body.

Peter Delaney

09/06/16 – 16:53

Yes windows wind part way down. One of the batch took part in this years London-Brighton run MOD 973 I think.

Roger Burdett

10/06/16 – 05:37

They must have been the biggest panes of glass ever to have been wound down (and up) – pretty heavy, I would guess.
And one of the very few (perhaps only) winding windows to have windscreen wipers, too.

petras409

18/09/19 – 06:58

Saw NHU 2 heading west along the A38 at South Brent this morning. It followed me up the slip road at Wrangaton before turning off towards Kingsbridge. As she passed me on the slip road she looked absolutely superb and in really good mechanical condition a tribute to her owners.

Thomas Bowden

29/07/22 – 06:05

I have just found your interesting site. Such wonderful memories of the 1970’s and being a bus ‘spotter’ living in Hedingham & District land.
Referring to NHU 2, I remember seeing it in Cirencester in the late 1970’s and photographing it in a very sorry state, along with other old Bristol buses. Many, many other photos I have, but all taken with a Zenith E, and none digitalised.
Bristol LS 476 BEV was a favourite school bus, to me it has a sublime engine note, quite different from the other LS’s and MW’s. I can recall it quite clearly even now.
Thank you for the pictures.

Stephen Gifford

30/07/22 – 05:58

Stephen, 476 BEV was delivered to Eastern National as its N0.400 in January 1955, and from information on Gerry Tormey’s wonderful Bristol Vehicles website, it was converted to Commer TS3 two-stroke Diesel engine. Presumably this was carried out by ENOC, although I’m happy to be corrected on this. 400 was converted to Gardner 5HLW engine in April 1960, renumbered 1220 in August 1964, and withdrawn by ENOC in January 1966, passing to Hedingham & District (D R MacGregor) the following month. H&D withdrew 476BEV in March 1973, and it passed to Paul Sykes (dealer) the same month, presumably for scrap.
I’m quite envious of you riding on a TS3-engined LS bus Stephen, as it must have sounded gorgeous, although perhaps a bit raucous (or should that be racy?) compared to the usual 5-pot Gardner.

Brendan Smith

31/07/22 – 08:47

Can’t find any TS3 Commer engine’d buses/coaches, but there are several videos of such lorries, if you want to hear that fruity sound again!

Chris Hebbron

01/08/22 – 08:18

Thank you Brendan and Chris for your follow up information. I always had a feeling there was something special about 476 BEV.
I have many memories of Eastern National Halstead and Braintree depots in the 60’s and 70’s and travelling to ‘exotic’ locations like Colchester and Southend with my bus spotting friend.
It is so interesting to find your site.

Stephen Gifford

Bristol Omnibus – Bristol LS – UHT 494 – 2884

UHT 494

Bristol Omnibus
1955
Bristol LSA
ECW B45F

Here we have one of the two Bristol LS that operated with other than a Gardner engine. Bristol Omnibus Bristol LSA registration UHT 494 fleet number 2884 seen on October 6, 1962 lasted in service until 1968 with an AEC horizontal engine. Much of its in-service time was marked by the engine stalling as drivers who were used to Gardner power were caught unaware of the lower low speed torque!
The other non-Gardner was registration UHT 493  fleet number 2883 a Bristol LSTS3 which had a Rootes TS3 diesel which was not particularly reliable and was soon back to a Gardner 5HLW as was the removal of its rear two doors.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Geoff Pullin

08/02/16 – 10:58

These two LS were in effect test beds for the engine manufacturers. No. 2884 is seen here on the last day of Clevedon town service 25D, which was then incorporated into the main Bristol – Clevedon 25/25A service. It carries the BRISTOL block lettering introduced in the early 1960s.

Geoff Kerr

09/02/16 – 08:30

My word, we learn something new every day on this wonderful Forum. I had no idea till now that any Bristol LSs had ever been powered by such unfamiliar units, even experimentally!!

Chris Youhill

09/02/16 – 09:42

This is a surprise to me, too, Chris. Were these engines seriously considered as options for production machines, I wonder? Certainly, the limited output of Gardner units set against the high demand placed constraints upon the sales of several psv and lorry manufacturers. Bristol brought out its own engines to ease the situation, though the BVW doesn’t seem to have been produced in horizontal form. I can see that the AEC unit might have been a realistic option – when running properly it was a good performer – but the wet liner problems might have militated against its adoption in the LS. What engine was it – an AH410 or a 470? I think that Leyland was very reluctant to let anyone else have its engines at that time. I doubt that the TS3 two stroke would have been entirely suitable for the stop/start nature of bus work. Quite apart from the noise, the revs had to be kept high for it to work properly.

Roger Cox

09/02/16 – 15:16

Most LSs had either a Gardner 5HLW (saloons) or Gardner 6HLW (coaches), or the Bristol 6 cylinder horizontal version of the AVW engine. According to Alan Townsin, the non-standard AEC engine was a 410, as used in some Reliances of the period, and one of the prototypes had a Gardner 4LW, as well as the TS3 engined example.
There was a horizontal version of the BVW engine – the BHW. And it was an example – first fitted in an MW used by the BCV works, it was later put into one of the RELH prototypes. The MW later had a Gardner 6HLW engine fitted before delivery to Red and White as a saloon, the RELH gained a Gardner 6HLX before entering service with West Yorkshire Road Car.

Peter Delaney

10/02/16 – 06:20

Don’t forget that there were several Bristol Ks and Ls with AEC engines, so it would not have been unreasonable to offer that manufacturer’s engines in the successor models.

Nigel Frampton

10/02/16 – 06:21

Well, this is even more interesting than many others which have delighted us on this forum! Thanks for submitting this, Geoff.
I was aware of some Bristol buses with upright engines having AEC products where one might normally expect a Bristol or Gardner power unit, but horizontal ones? And a COMMER?
You’ll have to excuse me – I must find a darkened room!

Pete Davies

10/02/16 – 06:21

Eastern Counties received the second prototype LS, MAH 744, which was powered by a 4HLW engine. Ever economically motivated, ECOC had taken a number of L4G saloons from the late 1930s, and in December 1952, took a couple of production dual purpose LS saloons with the 4HLW engine. These were use initially on express and excursion duties, though the performance must surely have been less than sparkling. Three more appeared in the fleet in May 1953, after which the 5HLW became the chosen Gardner powerplant for subsequent LS deliveries. The LS4G was not delivered to any other Tilling Group company. A number of BET companies specified the AH 410 engine for early AEC Reliance deliveries. The first Reliances bought by Aldershot & District, including the Strachans Everest bodied coaches, were all powered by the AH 410. Despite its modest capacity of 6.754 litres inherited from the 1935 “6.6” A172 (indirect injection) engine from which it was developed, the 98 bhp AH 410 would deliver a creditable road performance. It is extraordinary that AEC, with its significant resources, could never cure the wet liner problems with its 410, 470 and 590 engines. The much smaller Dennis company offered wet liner engines in petrol and diesel form from the mid 1930s, and these were trouble free. I have occasionally wondered how a Dennis O6 powered LS would have performed – the East Kent Lancet UF coaches were fliers and thoroughly reliable, but the idiosyncratic ‘O’ type gearbox was far from easy to use. Perhaps an arrangement between the two might then have permitted Dennis to use the Bristol five speed synchromesh gearbox in the Lancet. End of daydream!

Roger Cox

10/02/16 – 06:22

The early years of the Bristol LS were certainly interesting. The first two prototypes had aluminium alloy underframes, although production versions were of steel construction. The first prototype (LSX001) entered service with Bristol T&CC, and had a B42D body, and a horizontal version of the Bristol AVW engine. Designated the XWA, the horizontal Bristol engine became the LSW on LS production models. The second (LSX002) was powered by a Gardner 4HLW engine, and perhaps not too surprisingly was supplied to Eastern Counties. Bristol T&CC 2883 mentioned by Geoff was built in 1953 with an unfinished bodyshell, painted grey and used by Bristol for development work. It received a Commer TS3 two-stroke Diesel engine and was given the chassis designation LSTS3. It eventually entered service in the Bristol T&CC fleet as 2883(UHT493) in 1955 to B43D specification, but was fitted with a Gardner 5HLW engine in 1956. The LS6A (2884) shown in Geoff’s photo was also built in 1953, and similarly sported a grey-painted unfinished bodyshell, again used for development work. The engine chosen was AEC’s 6.75 litre AH410 unit (as offered in AEC’s Reliance and Monocaoch models), together with an AEC 5-speed gearbox. Like 2883, 2884 entered Bristol T&CC service in 1955, in this case to B45F configuration.
Roger, I cannot think why Bristol chose the TS3 engine (aka ‘The Knocker’) as an experiment, as it was not really that popular in the wider bus world, although it did sound gorgeous, if a bit raucous, in Commer lorries. Maybe they saw potential for it powering lightweight buses such as the LS, due to the engine’s good power to weight ratio. The early TS3s developed 105bhp @ 2400rpm from only 3.26 litres, which was amazing at the time. The choice of an AEC engine and gearbox though could perhaps have been an attempt to woo London Transport. LTE had tried an early Bristol LS5G bus (Bristol T&CC 2828:PHW918 painted in Green Line livery), which must have been something of a culture shock to LT drivers used to buses with 6-cylinder engines, fluid flywheels and pre-selector gearboxes! It is perhaps not surprising that the LS5G was not popular with LT, so Bristol then fitted it with a Hobbs semi-automatic transmission. The LS5G returned to LT for around six months, but no orders followed, and on returning to Bristol 2828 was fitted with a standard Bristol gearbox. All fascinating stuff. It’s just a shame that most of us never had the opportunity of hearing the wonderous sound effects of an AH410 or TS3-engined LS, or for that matter, a semi-auto LS5G.

Brendan Smith

10/02/16 – 06:23

I am surprised to see that this bus has a “normal” destination display; Bristol Omnibus LSs (and other types) normally had a single blind showing destination, number and via points. The fairly common T-style display was adopted with the later MWs and F-series Lodekkas, although even then the display was non-standard because there were four service number tracks.

Don McKeown

10/02/16 – 09:20

The recent book by Martin Curtis and Mike Walker on BOC – The Green Years – includes details of the two LS buses 2883 and 2884 which had been used by ECW for body development and passed to the company in 1955. The former previously used as an unfinished shell had the standard company destination display fitted with the Commer engine soon replaced by a Gardner 5HLW.The latter retained its AEC engine throughout its life and was unique with the company for its “side by side” destination favoured by other NBC companies such as the adjoining Wilts and Dorset – apparently the body had been used by ECW in connection with the development of the Bristol SC which had of course a similar destination display. In 1967 it was also fitted with an MW-style grill – and lasted until 1968. There is a black and white photo of 2884 in the book seen leaving Marlborough St bus station on the 25B to Nailsea. A second depot photo by Peter Davey shows the grill fitted – most odd -by which time the destination blind had been reduced to a single line by masking tape. This is the first time I have seen a colour picture of 2884. Thanks.

Keith Newton

11/02/16 – 06:27

NHU 2

There is a dedicated posting for the two LS prototypes elsewhere on OBP (see link below), but I’m sure no one will mind me adding a picture here of NHU 2 taken at Duxford a few years ago.
Bristol Tramways – Bristol LS – NHU 2 – 2800 

Roger Cox

13/02/16 – 05:26

I would imagine that the attraction of the Commer TS3 would be its legendary fuel economy. If they’d put it into a coach instead of a bus, it might even have worked!

Peter Williamson

14/02/16 – 05:51

The TS3 two stroke was used in coaches – Beadle and Harrington both offered coach models with this engine.

Roger Cox

19/02/16 – 05:46

There was a second LS which ran with a Rootes TS3. Eastern National
476 BEV was delivered new in 1955 as an LS5G but was soon converted by ENOC to the above, presumably as a comparative trial.
It was converted back to LS5G in 1960 and spent another six years with the company before being sold to Hedingham & District where it saw out its last few years.

Nigel Utting

03/03/16 – 15:48

So far as I was aware this chassis was coded LS6A, perhaps my original text was faulty!
What a fascinating lot more information this has stirred up. I mentioned the horizontal BVW in my article on the Bristol RE. I was unaware that it had been used in an MW before that – but I bet it wasn’t turbo-charged at that time!

exp-MW

This photo probably shows the test bed, a rather bedraggled looking ‘experimental’ MW taken at BCV on March 3, 1963.

The 2884 destination layout looks much nicer to me than the other standards used by BTCC & BOC: the 18 in. high single aperture and the destination above route number display. There was a nice batch of vehicles with the intermediate 12 in. high single aperture display that looked just as pleasant to me as 2884. Thanks for further information about BOC displays on my 1963 MW5G submission, but I’m sure I saw W in use when the suffix letters were first introduced!

Geoff Pullin

12/01/17 – 09:10

There is (was?) a full page explanation of the short workings in the front of the Bristol Joint Services timetable for 1965. The introduction states that ‘The number of buses which carry destination equipment capable of showing numbers and letters together is being gradually increased’ – in other words, the replacement of single piece blinds by 4-track ‘T’ indicators. Exactly why a single piece display cannot show (e.g.) 9A instead of 9 for the Ashton Gate short working passes me by I’m afraid. Surely you just print the blind with 9A on it.
The 4-tracks were a bit of overkill in some ways when you consider that the entire city fleet was being fitted with these displays when there were few workings which required them – 145A Henleaze Lake short working, the 236A extension to Brislington Trading Estate and journeys on 142,236 or 282 extended to Rodney Works, Patchway Bus Park or Shadow Factory were the only ones which actually needed all 4 tracks.

Peter Cook

West Yorkshire – Bristol LS5G – MWY 226 – EUG 15

West Yorkshire - Bristol LS5G - MWY 226 - EUG 15

West Yorkshire Road Car Co
1954
Bristol LS5G
ECW DP41F

Quite what this Harrogate based West Yorkshire LS5G was doing in Waterhouse Street, Halifax, in the summer of 1965 I am unsure, but it seems to be a curious choice of vehicle if it was on private hire duty. No doubt our Halifax experts will come up with a suggestion. MWY 226 was delivered to West Yorkshire’s Harrogate depot in July 1954 as a dual purpose vehicle and it then carried the fleet number EUG 15 (Express Underfloor Gardner). In March 1959 its role was downgraded to that of a bus with the new fleet number SUG 15 (Single deck Underfloor Gardner) in which guise, a trifle battered, it is seen here. It was still based at Harrogate when finally withdrawn in October 1968 thereafter passing into the hands of dealers.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

18/10/19 – 05:24

Although West Yorkshire‘s LS5Gs were renumbered from EUG to SUG, and repainted in the livery shown, they retained their dual purpose seats until some time in the sixties, so would have been suitable for a private hire job, especially if it was a summer Saturday.
Many years ago Crosville charged a lower rate for private hires if a dual purpose vehicle was used rather than a coach. Perhaps West Yorkshire had a similar scheme?

Don McKeown

18/10/19 – 05:25

West Yorkshire never bought any new LS pure service buses, but they did eventually re-seat many of the dual-purpose vehicles with bus seats. Sixty-eight were received as LS5G’s with ECW DP41F bodies and they came in five batches from 1953 to 1958. All of them had no rear indicators and the front indicators were always of two side-by-side windows. Each of the five batches had slight body variations and this along with West Yorkshire’s “normal” policy of declassifying/ re-seating/ livery changes gave a visually mixed and varied picture.

Stuart Emmett

20/10/19 – 06:39

I think it made economic sense to buy saloons in DP form then as they became older to reseat and down grade them to buses. Although I would love to know where all the bus seats came from to facilitate this, presumably from older, withdrawn stock.
A common nick name for the “SUG”s was “SLUGS” presumably due to the limited power produced by their five pot Gardners.

Mr Anon

21/10/19 – 06:07

ECW did some of the bus seat conversions Mr. Anon = a long way to/back from Lowestoft.

Stuart Emmett

28/10/19 – 06:57

Some fascinating memories, and how good it is to see the stalwarts getting some recognition. They were put to work on anything going. I used to work as a junior traffic clerk, latterly at Low Harrogate in the mid-60s, which was where tours and private hires were dealt with. There was no discount for using DPs instead of coaches. All quotes for hires were charged at the same mileage rate and the whole fleet for the allocation to Harrogate was particularly smart because it was Head Office. You should have seen the things which were hired out when the film “Sound of Music” was showing in Leeds! We were desperately short of vehicles and reckoned we could have hired out a tow truck. Private hire and tours were based in Montpelier Parade, Harrogate, which, if I remember correctly, had been completely refurbished some time around 1964.

LWR 431

There was one LS which stood out from the rest and was a product of West Yorkshire’s involvement with Cave-Brown-Cave. It seemed to work OK, but I remember one journey from Bradford to Harrogate on a dreeky damp day when this SUG had for some reason been put on the 53 service (probably working its way back to the depot it always worked from). It dripped and dribbled merrily down the inside of the windscreen.

David Rhodes

29/10/19 – 05:35

LWR 431 entered service in 1953 as EUG1 with a DP41F body and was delivered in the normal “express” livery of red with cream relief and this included the windscreen.
Fitted with Cave Brown Cave heating in late 1954 or early 1955 or early 1957 (and also was reported as 1/1965!!!) but this was most likely to have been concurrent with being reseated in 1957 as SUG1. The CBC system was placed in the destination box compartment, so the destination box was moved to be below the windscreen. First was a very small box, then was, as seen, in the pix from David.
Reseated as SUG1 by ECW as B45F in early 1957 and with no cream on the front windscreen.
Renumbered SMG1 in April 1962 when fitted for OMO.
Garaged at Pateley Bridge depot from 1956 to 1968 for the routes into Harrogate, it also regularly operated in the early 1960’s one return journey on route 51 to/from Bradford that left Harrogate at 0820 hours.
Withdrawn in July 1969 and then to North dealers in November 1969.

Stuart Emmett

United Automobile – Bristol MW6G – 517 LHN – UE517

United Automobile Services Bristol MW6G

United Automobile Services
1959
Bristol MW6G
ECW DP39F

These dual purpose vehicles were purchased for the North East to London route it had coach seats and maybe a bit more leg room but apart from that it was still just a bus. I think when I took this photo in 1966 they had been moved on to shorter routes and replaced with something more suited for such a long distance. Dual purpose and coaches had a different livery in the United fleet as can be seen, it was actually a moss green and cream doesn’t show well on this photo better one coming soon.

It was Olive Green and Cream.These MW vehicles were used on the Newcastle to London services being replaced by RELH coaches.They were then used on other express services such as Newcastle to Scarborough, Newcastle to Lowestoft/Great Yarmouth and Newcastle to Edinburgh/Glasgow.Some of these MWs were then repainted into the red/cream dual purpose colours and some even went to the all red with cream waistband bus livery in their latter days being used then on local bus services.

Paul

The Olive green and cream United express livery was one of the most dignified and pleasing I’ve ever enjoyed seeing. When I worked for West Yorkshire RCC we had a running board connection in Harrogate on service 76 from Tadcaster to Skipton – “connection must be made with the United car for Liverpool due from Newcastle at 3.57pm.” I can still remember with delight the sight of the beautiful ECW bodied Leyland Royal Tigers (United had nine of them) as they purred into the platform behind us – invariably spot on time.

Chris Youhill

United Automobile – Bristol MW5G – 929 JHN – U529

United Automobile Bristol MW5G

United Automobile Services
1959
Bristol MW5G
ECW B45F

This is the bus version of a 1959 Bristol MW as opposed to the dual purpose one 6 buses ago, there is quick link to it here. This bus version has a 5 cylinder Gardner engine where the DP version had a 6 cylinder engine probable because of the long routes it was used on. The bus version also seats six more people than the DP version so not as comfy but then the journeys are not as long. Coming up in the next few days is a 1965 version of the MW with a very nice radiator grill design.

Full lists of Bristol and United codes can be seen here.

One of the unsung heroes of the bus and coach world, the MW just got on with the job and did it splendidly and without much fuss. Whereas the Lodekka drew attention with its step-free lowheight layout, and the RE in bus and coach form stole the limelight with its sheer size and elegance, the MW always seemed like an unassuming, reliable workhorse plodding away in the background. They were quiet and comfortable vehicles to ride in, especially when fitted with coach seats, and their Gardner engines ensured reliability and excellent fuel economy. Who could forget seeing United’s versions parked en masse in front of Richmond’s fine castle. A fine sight and sound indeed.

Brendan Smith

I have very happy memories of countless journeys to Hull and Bridlington from Leeds in these fine vehicles of the West Yorkshire Road Car Co.Ltd. The routes , 44/45/46, were jointly operated with East Yorkshire and so one was guaranteed a treat no matter which operator’s steed was on duty at the particular time.

Chris Youhill

United Automobile – Bristol MW6G – FHN 19C – U719

United Automobile Bristol MW6G

United Automobile Services
1965
Bristol MW6G
ECW B45F

This is the Bristol MW version with what I think has a very good looking front I think they got the idea from the SUL and improved on it. In all the time I have been on the web researching other buses I have never seen a photo of a similar looking “Bristol” with any other operator, if you know of one please let me know.
Other single deck buses were beginning to switch over to a single piece windscreens in 1965 as the previous “Roadliner”. I do not think ECWs ever stopped having split windscreens having seen a photo of a 1974 West Yorkshire Road Car RE which still had a split windscreen.

A full list including Bristol and United codes can be seen here.

This particular type of MW front was unique to United and appeared in the mid-sixties towards the end of MW production. Some of them may have been operated by Ribble, following transfer of United’s depot at Carlisle to Ribble in the early days of NBC. Regarding ECW windscreens, they remained split no doubt to minimise the expense of replacement units. My old employer (West Yorkshire Road Car) had problems with cracking on some RELL buses fitted with BET screens. They were quite costly to replace (especially the electrically heated ones), but a one-piece job would have been even more so. Even the later designs such as the Olympian and B51 coaches had split screens, as did such exotica as the bodies on tri-axle Olympian chassis for Gray Linetours in the US, and Hong Kong Citybus. Looks like the last ECW bodies were as practical as the first.

Brendan Smith

03/04/11 – 08:57

As regards BL55/56 these two buses worked out of Darlington on service Darlington/Newcastle which was number 46 and changed to 721/722 when it was NBC, as I drove these on many a shift. They were never on any other route.

Brian Whitaker

Lincolnshire – Bristol MW5G – SFU 848 – 3021

Lincolnshire Bristol MW5G

Lincolnshire Road Car Company
1958
Bristol MW5G
ECW DP41F

Another photo taken in Scarborough coach park of a Bristol “MW” series single decker but this time in the fleet of the Lincolnshire Road Car Company Ltd. This vehicle was classed as “dual purpose” meaning it was a bus with “nearly but not quite” a coach standard of interior. I do like the paint work on this bus the step in the cream ¾s way down the side makes a big difference. 
The “5G” after the “MW” in the “MW” series letters above means that this bus had a Gardner 5HLW engine which was a 5 cylinder 7.0 litre horizontal diesel engine. If the “MW” had been followed by “6G” it would of had a Gardner 6HLW engine which was a 6 cylinder 8.4 litre horizontal diesel engine. As far as I know only these two engines were available with the “MW” series, meaning no Bristol engine, if you know different let me know.

Although as you rightly state, the Bristol MW was only available with the Gardner 5HLW or 6HLW engine, one was fitted experimentally with a Bristol engine, but never operated in service as such. This was an early MW chassis bodied by ECW with a bus shell, and it was returned to Bristol Commercial Vehicles as a test-bed vehicle. The engine was in itself experimental – being a horizontal version of the BVW 8.9 litre unit and known as the BHW. In 1963, the MW6B (as it would have been known) was re-engined with a Gardner 6HLW unit. Its body was then completed to 45-seat bus layout, and it entered service with Red & White as their U1563 (228JAX). Another BHW-engined Bristol test-bed vehicle appeared in 1963 in the shape of a prototype RELH chassis fitted with an ECW coach shell. Whether this was fitted with the engine from the MW I do not know, as apparently Bristol had built several BHWs for experimental use. The engine in the RELH6B test vehicle also had a turbocharger fitted to increase power. However, the BHW engine never entered production, and later the vehicle (chassis number REX003) was given a Gardner 6HLX engine and its body fitted out to full 47-seat coach specification. It then entered service with West Yorkshire as its CRG1 (OWT241E) in 1967.

Brendan Smith

Crosville – Bristol MW6G – 916 VFM – EMG 417


Photo by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Crosville Motor Services
1961
Bristol MW6G
ECW DP41F

Crosville at its head office at Chester and had its boundaries at St Helens (N) Newcastle under Lyme (E) Cardigan (S) and Aberdaron (W) including the Island of Anglesey that is a very big area to cover. It was possible for the company to be running a local service about 150 miles away from the head office to do this in 1963 they had 1,221 vehicles and 35 depots. The above dual purpose vehicle would have been used on some of their express routes like the X4 Liverpool to Caernarvon or one from my neck of the woods the X35 Skipton to Llandudno. The livery of Crosville coaches and dual purpose vehicles was cream and the buses was the usual Tilling green.

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

Whilst Crosville coaches were all-over cream, in the early and mid 60s at least, through to the NBC takeover, their dual purpose vehicles were green up the waist and cream above.

Anonymous

United Automobile – Bristol MW6G – 7545 HN – UE545

United Automobile Bristol MW6G

United Automobile Services
1962
Bristol MW6G
ECW DP41F

Previous shots of United Automobile single deck vehicles on this site have been bus bodied or coach bodied, here we have a dual purpose bodied MW6G. United as like many other of the Tilling group had a different livery for each type of vehicle body. United’s dual purpose vehicles livery was a reversal of their bus livery of red and cream and there coach livery was cream and sage green. There are links at the foot of this copy to see shots of a bus and coach livery. If you want to know the full specification for the MW6G you can look it up on the Bristol abbreviations here.
The above photograph was taken at Whitby bus station July 1965 and this bus is not exactly on a long distance run as Whitby Laithes I think is around the Hawsker area which is only 3-4 miles south of Whitby. On saying that though what a lovely run on the North Yorkshire Moors with the North Sea just to the side of you, not sure if this route includes calling at Robin Hoods Bay or not. If you know please leave a comment.
Quick links to see the ‘bus’ and ‘coach’ liveries.

Whitby Laithes is just outside Whitby near Stainsacre and before you get to Hawsker. I believe there was and maybe still is a caravan site there.
Fantastic picture I would like to see some Durham District (which was part of United) photos if you have any. How well the colour suits the MW. This vehicle probably used to go on longer express services in its time to London etc.

Paul

Silly little anecdote concerning United and the Whitby area. I studied at the Royal Northern College of Music and the father of one of my tutors was a United inspector in the the Whitby area. Pre RE, all Bristols had manual, many crash, gearboxes. At the top of the road to Robin Hoods Bay, at that time open to traffic, was a sign telling bus drivers to stop and engage first gear. The breaking effect of an epicyclic gearbox is not the same as a manual. The poor driver of the first semi-auto RE to go down this road found this out to his cost. He panicked and threw the thing into reverse. The result was the vehicle seized up and when the fitters unscrewed the gearbox housing, a pile of dust fell to the floor.

David Oldfield

The very steep hill from the main road to Whitby into Fylingthorpe is still used by United’s successor Arriva for their 96 Scarborough Whitby Middlesbrough service. For many years it boasted signs at the top and bottom instructing drivers to engage low gear. Halfway up the hill is a hairpin bend which really sorted out the men from the boys! Following an Olympian up the hill was a fairly hair raising business. Nowadays the route is worked by single deckers. A similar steep hill Blue Bank just outside Sleights also used to boast signs instructing United drivers to stop and engage low gear. Indeed so steep is this road it boasts a sand filled run off for the use of out of control vehicles.

Chris Hough

I seem to remember there is sand run off road at the bottom of Garrowby Hill on the York to Bridlington road.

Peter

There is one on the A59 Harrogate to Skipton road after the long decent to Bolton Abbey

Spencer

19/03/11 – 07:48

Can anyone tell me the colour scheme for a Leyland Lion operated by United Automobile in the Bishop Aukland area in the 1912/1920 era.

Brian

19/03/11 – 10:33

Peter is quite right, and the escape lane still exists at the lower end of Garrowby Hill. I once had the most unpleasant but essential task of reporting an East Yorkshire driver who, in a filthy temper all the way from Bridlington Bus Station, carried our full load in a Leyland Leopard down Garrowby Hill in top gear. As I have a very wide experience of driving Leopards I was aware of their tendency to brake fade under heavy usage and this man was very lucky indeed not to have caused a disaster. As would be expected the highly respected EYMS were very concerned and thanked me for the information – not being of a vindictive nature I hope that the man was only reprimanded but the atrocious incident could not possibly go unreported. In one of those contrasts which occur from time to time I had travelled to Bridlington that weekend on a West Yorkshire vehicle (joint services 44/45) which was driven so impeccably that I also wrote to WYRCC with a commendation – soon afterwards that driver was seen in an Inspector’s hat in Leeds !!

Chris Youhill

19/03/11 – 17:20

Chris, we have so much in common. I have this thing about criticism outweighing commendation and that the good should also and always be remarked upon.
To his own surprise, I wrote a letter of commendation about a First driver in Sheffield one Christmas Eve, a few years back. The standard of his driving and his interaction with passengers (yes, not customers!!!) was superb. I also got a very nice reply from management thanking me for taking the trouble. I think this is so important.

David Oldfield

19/11/11 – 10:07

I Googled “uas colour schemes” because I’m modelling Morpeth station 1950s and needed to check something. What do I find? An old friend from my college days.
I did two summer vacs as a conductor at Whitby depot in 1961 and 1962 and if that isn’t one of the coaches we used on the Leeds run then it’s their twin brother.
There wasn’t a service to Whitby Laithes then. The closest would have been the 93 (I think) to Robin Hoods Bay.

Clippie

20/11/11 – 07:35

The mention of Blue Bank reminds me that when I drove for J. J. Longstaff of Mirfield I was half way up with my Bedford VAS/Plaxton when the fan belt snapped. I was very fortunate to be able to back in to a field and then coast down to Sleights to wait to be rescued.

Philip Carlton

12/12/11 – 08:28

Chris Hough refers to advisory/warning signs erected around Whitby on approaches to very steep hills. There is still one such sign at the top of Blue Bank on the  approach to Sleights just outside Whitby.
I have attached two photos which please use if you wish.

CIMG1273
CIMG1269

Whilst not the original, it serves the same purpose – it is in fact headed up as ‘TEES’, this company being the eventual successor to United in 1990 prior to the subsequent takeover by Arriva.
The present sign is well obscured by a gorse bush but quite visible to the enthusiast. There used also to be signs at the bottom of the hills with the message ‘United – All clear’, but there is none at the foot of Blue Bank now.
As far as I know, there are no longer any signs on Lythe Bank above Sandsend and I do not know if any signs still exist at Fylingthorpe but would think it unlikely.

John Darwent

13/12/11 – 10:55

Apart from a few odd balls that were presumably acquired as a result of takeovers, up to the formation of National Bus Company the vast majority of United’s bus and coach fleet was made up of ECW bodied Bristol’s. However, for quite some time Whitley Bay Depot had a non ECW Guy Arab, does anyone know how it came to be there?

Ronnie Hoye

13/12/11 – 11:22

Ronnie, I believe it was a Willowbrook body – possibly a rebody of a war-time model. This would almost certainly be as a result of the takeover of an independent. I believe Durham and District was set up to run independents taken over in the area by United – but Whitley Bay would be far too north to be included.

David Oldfield

13/12/11 – 15:19

I am a regular reader but have not contributed previously.
Re the recent posts concerning the warning signs on Blue Bank there is a beautifully restored United Red “Engage Low Gear” sign at the foot of Ruswarp Bank in Ruswarp Village near Whitby. There is quite a few photos to be seen if you Google – “United Ruswarp Compulsory”
On Lythe Bank there was an intermediate sign in both directions at the Lodge gates and I recall that for climbing vehicles it read “Drivers may build up gears” or something similar. In the down direction the first sign was for 2nd gear and the intermediate prior to the steepest 1 in 4 portion was for 1st gear.
I recall others on the approach to Goathland.

Farmer G

15/12/11 – 15:41

Excellent – thank you for the link Farmer G

John Darwent

14/01/12 – 16:19

The United 1962 Bristol MW6G ECW DP41F is my colour scheme. I worked at Grange Road 1954 – 1958/9 in the drawing office. The drawings came in and we had to colour them in. The CE chose mine….
Yes Durham and District Services was set-up to run the independents United had taken over. In my time in the pump house in Central Works we had Bob I think it was who’d come in from the company at Hurworth that United/DDS had taken over.
In the drawing office there was drawings of the “stop and engage low gear” signs.

Mike Hingley

04/05/12 – 08:59

Could anyone tell me please the location of United’s Scarborough depot? Is the building still there?

Goff

04/05/12 – 14:45

The Depot is still there and is now a Car Parking facility rejoicing in the name of the “Palm Court” on Vernon Road near the junction with Falconers Road. It appears to be connected to the up-market Palm Court Hotel. It is clearly shown on Google Earth.

Gordon Green

04/07/13 – 17:35

I seem to recall a double decker bus service in the 1950’s to Castle Park in Whitby, route number 96 when I was about 5 or 6. Does anyone remember this? I seem to remember that the bus went up Chub Hill, along Upgang Lane and Love Lane before heading past White Leys estate.

Mic

20/08/13 – 18:53

A K5G from Scarborough depot was loaned to Whitby Depot for the summer period in the fifties. The service was numbered 98 and ran from the Bus Station to Castle Park via Chubb Hill, John Street, Promenade, Argyle Road, White Point, Love Lane and Stakesby Road. The Destination blind permanently showed “Castle Park”, and the lower blind “White Point The Spa 98. Around 1960 this service was linked with the 99 from the Bus Station to St. Peter’s Road, formerly operated by Heather Motor Services. The resulting cross town service was numbered 96, and was operated by two single-deckers, at first LS5G’s, later MW’s. By the early seventies, Whitby Depot had a single RESL6G, 2862, which was used on the 96 day after day, usually in partnership with an LH; I once overheard a driver stating that Whitby’s manager had tried to get a second RE but had been refused.

Don McKeown

21/08/13 – 06:55

Seeing the earlier post of signs on Blue Bank has got me worried. If the gorse bush has been cut back to reveal the TEES sign saying ‘Stop, Engage 2nd gear Retain to next sign’ and the All Clear sign at the bottom has been removed, what is happening out on the road ?
Are there dozens of buses winding their way around North Yorkshire in 2nd gear looking in vain for the All Clear sign ?
I sincerely hope not!

Petras409

25/08/13 – 06:33

In Don McK’s posting, he mentions Heather Motor Services at Whitby. I recall that on holiday as a very small boy in the late 40’S, I saw what may well have been a Bedford OB or similar in cream with red lining belonging to Moordale Coaches maybe. I have never been able to find a reference to this firm or where they ran from. Don, do you have any information please? Heather MS is well documented though.

John Darwent

29/08/13 – 06:29

Sorry John, I have no recollection of Moordale coaches in the Whitby area, although I have heard the name; was it a company further north, perhaps in County Durham?
Farmer G mentions the restored sign at Ruswarp; this is not strictly accurate, the “United” fleetname at the head of the board has a large U and D, with the NITE smaller and underlined. In reality, only the U was in the larger print with five letters underlined. Further on along the 91 (Malton route) there were a fourth set of gearchanging signs at the “Devil’s Elbow”, between the Saltergate Inn and the Hole of Horcum.
Service 94 to Whitby Laithes was a summer only service which survived into the late sixties. It was taken over from Heather Motor Services, along with the 99 St. Peters Road) and 93 (Fylingthorpe)on 29th March 1953. The story of Heather is told in a book by Philip Battersby, published by United Enthusiasts Club in 2005.

Don McKeown

29/08/13 – 06:31

Ah – distant memories of what were my first ever seaside Summer Holidays spent in Whitby. Obviously I’m not the only one on this site to spend holidays there in the late 40’s and early 50’s. On the second and third of those holidays we stayed at the Oxford Hotel opposite the Spa and the highlight for me was the regular passage of the Castle Park bus.
Isn’t it funny how the ‘old’ registration numbers stick in your mind and here is one – CHN 105 passing by on a regular basis all day. For years I recalled it as a K5G with a modern post war body but it was only when I found a copy of the Prestige book on United that I found a photo by G H F Atkins of its sister CHN 106 and discovered that it was not what it first seemed to be. In fact it was a GO5G originally fitted with an odd ball ECW body (14 ft 3in height) but with a lowbridge layout. They were rebodied in 1949 with standard ECW lowbridge bodies which had to be modified to fit the GO5G chassis.
Could the cream/red Bedford OB have been one of Howards’s Tours who used to load in front of the Esplanade Gardens for their excursions ??

Gordon Green

03/09/13 – 16:30

Gordon, I have looked at an image of a Howards’ OB and the colours suggest you may well be correct with your suggestion.I cannot remember whether Howards had any stage services but seem to think that the “phantom” Moordale /Moorsholm /Moorview or whatever Coaches served the Esk Valley area such as Danby and Lealholm. Possibly an ex-Howards OB retaining the paint scheme but with new owner – who knows?

John Darwent

16/09/13 – 06:31

I’ve just noticed Ronnie’s query from December 2011 (!) about a non-ECW Guy ‘decker at Whitley Bay. David is quite right in attributing it to the formation of DDS. It was GGH1 (GHN 69), a Guy Arab III which had been ordered by Darlington Triumph, one of the constituent companies – along with ABC and Express – of DDS. Its chassis was delivered to DDS in May 1951 and originally intended to operate for them, but was actually ‘transferred’ to United who had it bodied by Willowbrook as a highbridge 58-seater. It entered service in June 1952 at Carlisle depot but, later, found its way to Whitley Bay where it was often to be found on the 5 and 17 services and where, I believe, it ended its days.

Alan R Hall

United Automobile Bristol MW6G Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

28/05/14 – 07:46

Regarding the question by John Darwent and others above. Moordale Bus services Ltd who ran in the Whitby area. The company was actually based in Newcastle and survived in various forms until takeover by British Bus in the 1990s. They also had a garage at Danby and ran;
Loftus-Liverton Mines-Liverton Village-Moorsholm, Castleton-Danby-Lealholm-Ugthorpe-Sandsend-Whitby, Loftus-Liverton-Danby-Lealholm-Glaisdale,
Danby-Fryup Dale (Sats only)
Even in the the post-war traffic boom these must have been marginal and the whole operation was abandoned in 1954. Just Loftus-Liverton was replaced, by Saltburn Motor Services, and even then I believe there was a gap before this started.

Phil Drake

28/05/14 – 16:03

Thanks for that Phil. Very enlightening.

John Darwent

07/06/14 – 08:24

I have been in the Whitby area this week and have found another of the old (but badged ‘Tees’) ‘compulsory stop engage 1st gear’ signs at the foot of Saltersgate Bank on the A169 Whitby Pickering road. This is opposite the sadly closed Saltersgate Inn where the peat fire was aid to have been burning for nearly 300 years. There used to be one at the top for descending vehicles but I could not see this as I drove past.
I wonder if Yorkshire Coastliner observe the spirit of the old signs ?

Gordon Green

West Yorkshire – Bristol MW6G – AWU 466B – 1146

 
Copyright Brendan Smith

West Yorkshire Road Car Company
1964
Bristol MW6G
ECW DP41F

Originally numbered SMG38, this vehicle became 1146 in West Yorkshire’s 1971 renumbering programme. It was one of twenty-six MW6G buses delivered to WY in 1963/64 – these being the first new single-decker WY buses for some time. For quite a few years previously, the Company had been able to cascade its mid-life dual-purpose vehicles for stage carriage use – repainting them red and cream in the process. The MW6G buses were originally delivered as B45F, but in 1971, SMG33-38 were reseated with high-backed seats from withdrawn LS dual-purpose vehicles. Unusually, the reseated batch retained bus livery, rather than receiving WY’s then dual-purpose/express livery of cream with a red band. As can be seen, ‘T-type’ destination indicators were fitted at the front, but no displays were fitted at the rear. The vehicles sported full-depth rear windows in their nicely rounded domes. They were quiet and comfortable buses to ride in, whether coach or bus seated, not to mention being very reliable and economical workhorses.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Brendan Smith

08/09/12 – 07:45

There are so many West Yorkshire experts who visit this site that one needs to be very careful about one’s facts. Someone may know otherwise, but my recollection is that WY fitted high back seats as a matter of course in their early MWs, designated SUGs. I remember them well on route 43, Leeds to Scarborough, always in standard livery. ‘SUG’ was explained to me in conductors’ training school as ‘Single, Underslung Gardner’. ‘SMG’ – ‘Single, Maximum Capacity Gardner’ – came later, I thought, as the company started to fit bus seats. Originally, SUGs had destination indicators made up of the two lower sections of ECW’s then standard three-part screens. The change to ‘T-type’ screens embraced all stage carriage vehicles, in the mid-1960’s. It’s a pity that the screen in this picture is sloppy; even if the screen didn’t have the right destination, (which could occasionally happen), the driver could, I think, have made sure the route number was displayed clearly.

Roy Burke

08/09/12 – 07:46

I agree entirely with Brendan about such vehicles being quiet and comfortable to travel in. I had many rides on those of Midland General which were all of the 6G type and always found them so. I’ve never had any experience of the MW5G, I suspect the ride may have been rather different.
David O remarks elsewhere about the popularity of the Guy Arab UF/LUF for coaching work. I too, never had any experience of these but I’ve always imagined that there couldn’t have been much difference between them and the MW.

Chris Barker

09/09/12 – 08:02

West Yorkshire vehicles were regular visitors to Blackpool on the “Joint Services” pool and also to Morecambe – alias British West Bradford – on the X88 service from Leeds. We could and did get anything that was available.
The “class” letters seem to have gone from most of the former Tilling group fleets at about the same time, though the Crosville arrangement was adopted by Potteries.
A pleasant enough view, but the indicator display would be of no use at all to a stranger. Thanks for sharing, Brendan.

Pete Davies

09/09/12 – 08:02

West Riding were a somewhat surprising recipient of West Yorkshire 1125 825 BWY which was new to West Yorkshire in 1963 as SMG17 in 1974. It lasted with West Riding until 1975 when it was scrapped.

Chris Hough

09/09/12 – 08:04

You are indeed right Roy, that West Yorkshire’s earlier deliveries of MWs (MW5Gs) with bus outline bodywork were fitted with high-backed coach seats. They were classed ‘EUG’ when new, denoting Express Underfloor Gardner, as were the earlier batches of LS5Gs, also with bus shells and coach seats. In later life many were demoted to ‘SUG’ status, for use mainly on stage-carriage work, gaining more red to their livery, but retaining coach seats. They would no doubt have been comfortable machines to ride in on the Leeds to Scarborough run, but many of us did wonder why WY continued to specify 5-pot rather than 6-pot Gardner engines for it’s longer-distance vehicles. It must have taken an age to reach Scarborough, Blackpool or Middlesbrough from the heart of the West Riding. (Could that be the reason for fitting half a dozen of the more powerful MW6G buses with 41 high-backed seats later on?). Some of the SUGs were fitted out for “one man” operation in later life, and received 45 bus seats in the process. They were re-classified SMG at the same time, the ‘M’ as Roy says, denoting Maximum seating capacity, and described as such in Ian Allan’s BBF No9. I too have heard this quoted by West Yorkshire staff, but have heard other staff say that ‘M’ meant the bus was suitable for one Man operation. Both descriptions appeared to be very relevant to the buses concerned, but as a skinny apprentice at the time, I did not wish to provoke an argument with either party, and came to the conclusion that maybe they were both right!

Brendan Smith

09/09/12 – 08:03

Where was this picture taken Brendan? Judging by the route number, could it have been York, Harrogate or possibly Keighley? As we’ve seen on other postings, it was not uncommon to have to ride many miles on express services in bus seats, but to have this DP for a local suburban estate run must have been delightful!

Paul Haywood

10/09/12 – 06:56

Paul and Brendan – my trusty 1960 fare table book (seriously speaking one of my most treasured possessions) may hold the answer to this query. At least in 1960 there was no service 9A in Harrogate or Keighley, but in York services 9/9A ran between Clifton and Tang Hall Lane. Our lovely meerkat friend from TV would no doubt click his teeth and remark “seeemples.”

Chris Youhill

10/09/12 – 06:58

There are other mysteries here! I know the camera can lie (or the process can) but that’s not Poppy Red, and I’m not sure about the side band- should be a sort of grey-white and yet seems to match the presumably original window surrounds- which would be self-colour cream, I imagine: yet the grey wheels are there and NBC fleetname. As to where… looks too warm for Keighley: has a look of east Leeds about it

Joe

10/09/12 – 06:59

I remember seeing the first MWs entering service in Bristol in February 1958. These had AHY registrations and ugly flat backs. The second (DAE) series had the more rounded style and I suppose other early operators of the type had bodywork which went through the same design change.

Geoff Kerr

11/09/12 – 06:52

We really need Brendan to tell us where this photo was taken to be sure of the location. In 1960, as Chris says, there was certainly a service 9/9A in York, but it was invariably a double-decker route in those days. I worked it many times as a conductor; a very busy urban route. The picture dates from NBC days – at least 9 or 10 years later – by which time things might have changed, of course. If the picture is indeed in York, things must have changed a lot, since the very idea of OMO on the Clifton/Tang Hall Lane service in the mid-1960’s would have been thought laughable. In Tilling days, York had only one single deck city service, (Leeman Road/Hull Road, route 7), necessitated by a low bridge, operated in my time with L5Gs, (YSGs), later replaced with SUs, (YSMAs). There were then very few OMO routes, and all of them, as you’d expect, were light semi-rural services.

Roy Burke

11/09/12 – 06:55

Well Chris- that looked like a York street light, too. Did NBC remove the “York”, and have West Yorkshire in East Yorkshire (nearly?) …or is this bus out of area, which explains the blinds?

I should have added that its not West Yorkshire red either which was much redder? This is almost maroon.

Joe

11/09/12 – 06:58

Sorry Joe but this is not east Leeds West Yorkshire had no service numbers as low as that in the Leeds area all services in east Leeds were either throughs to York and points east or at a push to places like Barwick Scoles and other dormatory villages which were in the West Riding until 1974 West Yorkshire applied NBC fleet names to standard Tilling red but often painted the cream band on both saloons and deckers.

Chris Hough

11/09/12 – 07:01

Apologies for being a little slow in responding to the above comments folks, but I’m making preparations for my ‘jollies’ and have been ‘sidetracked’ away from OB Photos several times! Paul, Chris Y and Joe, sorry to keep you in suspense as a result, but the photo was taken on Woodfield Road, Harrogate. The vehicle was on the newly-introduced 9A Bus Station – Dene Park route, serving a new estate of low-rise flats for older people. From what I can recall, 1146 had been recently transferred from I think, Leeds depot, and presumably had not yet received a blind showing Dene Park, which would go some way in explaining the unhelpful (and slovenly) route display. (There is also what appears to be a maroon Leeds depot allocation disc in front of the fleet number, rather than a green Harrogate one). Joe, your comment on the livery has me puzzled too. I’m not sure whether the processing (AGFA slide) has made the poppy red look like Tilling red, or whether the bus was still wearing Tilling red, with NBC grey wheels, white band and fleetnames applied. Some WY depots did apply white bands and fleetnames to vehicles still in Tilling red, if the paintwork was still sound, pending a full repaint into poppy red at a later date. I smiled at your comment that the view looked too warm for Keighley.

Brendan Smith

12/09/12 – 07:11

Thanks for settling this teaser for us Brendan – I had based my wild assumption of the wrong year of course, and on the pretty unlikely possibility of a vehicle transfer or loan to York – and my meerkat informant has received one week’s notice !!

Chris Youhill

12/09/12 – 07:11

Brendan, as a Keighley postcoder (although living just over the border into North Yorkshire), I must defend the place! Emily Bronte would have had difficulty selling “Wuthering Heights” with the title “Sunny Hills”! When we think of famous people with “sunny dispositions” we automatically think of Denis Healey, Eric Pickles, and Alastair Campbell who were all born in Keighley! There’s nothing wrong with good old fashioned gloom and misery. Mark my words, no good will come from sunshine, it only attracts the wasps!

Paul Haywood

13/09/12 – 06:59

Thanks for settling the mystery, Brendan. I have several views of buses still in Tilling green or red but with NBC style fleetname. A Southern Vectis bus in Southampton (on loan to Hants & Dorset and with the latter’s fleet number – don’t fret, boys, I’ll submit it for consideration in a week or two!) has Tilling green, NBC fleetname and the white stripe.

Pete Davies