Tag: AEC

British European Airways – AEC Regal IV – NLP 645 – 1035

British European Airways - AEC Regal IV - NLP 645 - 1035

British European Airways
1953
AEC Regal IV 9822E
Park Royal RDP37C

NLP 645 is an AEC Regal IV 9822E with Park Royal bodywork, new to BEA in 1953. The bodywork is described in different sources as HDC or RDC. The 2012 PSVC listing has her as RDP37C, which is a bit different! We see her during one of the infuriatingly rare open days at the Science Museum Annex, Wroughton, on 12 July 1986.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

07/04/16 – 15:00

RDP37C is the correct code – these were essentially observation coaches, but with a continuous roof-line and poorer quality “DP” style seats and interior trim. The “HD” code applied to Crellin-Duplex “half-deckers” such as the prototype which can be found on the “Ugly Bus” part of this website.

Neville Mercer

08/04/16 – 06:18

BLOTW. Under more shows 3 photos in Everyone’s photos of NLP 645 being with BEA until 1966-67 1 of the 3 photos shows coach went to the London perfume and soap house Yardleys whom were then based in Basildon Essex. NPL 641 also went to them they are seen as a pair in first of the 3 photos. It is later seen in preservation.

Alan Coulson

08/04/16 – 06:19

Thanks, Neville. These pages have carried a fair amount of debate about what is or is not a DP

Pete Davies

08/04/16 – 15:40

Manchester’s Burlingham bodied airport vehicles were always classified as “RC” by the PSV Circle, even though the level of comfort and trim was almost identical to the “RDP” London machines. I don’t think that there was any hard and fast policy- the use of the DP prefix was left to the discretion of the individual editor in the PSV Circle chain. In the case of North Western, for example, somebody at the Circle decided that the Weymann and Willowbrook 30′ DPs (the “Black Tops”) were DPs despite their relatively bus-like seating and seat-pitch. The Alexander bodied 30′ Reliances of 1961 on the other hand were often described as “C41F”, even though they consisted of coach interiors in a bus shell. Later in their lives (when repainted half-and-half) they were sometimes described as DP41F even though nothing had changed except their livery. I’m always very careful when I use a “DP” prefix- it’s essentially meaningless unless you go on to specify the exact configuration.

Neville Mercer

23/04/16 – 06:35

MLL 747

The contract to run and maintain the BEA transfer coaches between central London and the surrounding airports was held by London Transport. When the Commer Commando 18 seater observation coach fleet became due for replacement, LT convinced BEA to adopt a variant of its standard RF Regal IV saloon, albeit with a Park Royal rather than a Metro-Cammell body. The new fleet began arriving from 1952, and was classified 4RF4 by LT. In their earlier years, they saw sporadic use, some being stored in the winter months, but as air travel became more and more popular, so the BEA fleet saw increasingly heavier service. They soldiered on reliably until 1966/7 when they were replaced by front entrance Routemasters with luggage trailers. MLL 747, one of the 1953 deliveries, was withdrawn in 1967 and passed to Continental Pioneer, in whose ownership it is seen here on the A23 at Southgate, Crawley during the May 1970 HCVC Brighton Run. In May 1972 it was sold to Scout Groups in Brighton and Hove, and its subsequent fate is unclear.

Roger Cox

11/04/17 – 07:23

MLL 747 was sold to the 20th Brighton Scout troop. The Scout troop took it to summer camp at the Olympic Games in Munich 1972, I was one of the scouts. The huge luggage space came into good use. It was used to take the Scout troop to other summer camps, I remember at least one in the West Country. The coach was later sold and the troop bought a Harrington bodied coach I think a Grenadier from Unique Coaches of Brighton. A couple of photos of it in Brighton https://flic.kr/p/9nk4AM  – https://flic.kr/p/9oi6N7

Andy Gibbs

11/04/17 – 17:31

Although Roger mentions The vehicles running from Central London, the BEA ones, at least, ran from the West London Air Terminal in Kensington, to Heathrow. Here’s a link to an item about it: https://rbkclocalstudies.
The item mentions that, coming in, you could go to Central London, via the Terminal and presumably, you could pick up the vehicles in Cnetral London, too, but where?
Did the vehicles and terminal also deal with BOAC?

Chris Hebbron

07/01/19 – 07:18

Chris, as you may have found out, Ian’s Bus stop is pretty good at summarising the 4RF4 operations. The WLAT I think was only BEA – then BA per the K&C local studies link.
BOAC used their own Leyland Atlanteans from the Victoria Air Terminal (now the National Audit Office) which I think were garaged in the Heathrow area.

Ian London

09/01/19 – 06:37

To add a little to your second paragraph, Ian, the Victoria Air Terminal could well be that which was used before the war, serving the same purpose for Croydon Airport.

Chris Hebbron

10/01/19 – 06:24

The present National Audit Office was originally the Imperial Airways London Terminal, opened in 1939 to serve Croydon Airport. The war then intervened, and, with the resumption of peace, Heathrow became the airport for London, and BOAC the major carrier beyond Europe.

Roger Cox

12/01/19 – 07:04

Thx for confirming my thoughts, Roger. It must have been almost the last flourish of Art Deco architecture and duly awarded the name of the Empire Air Terminal. My favourite is the Daily Express building in Manchester, renovated not many years ago and truly beautiful, not a word I use lightly!

Chris Hebbron

Hampson (Oswestry) – AEC Regal IV – LUC 213

Hampson (Oswestry) - AEC Regal IV - LUC 213

Hampson of Oswestry
1951
AEC Regal IV
Metro-Cammell B35F

“Yes, Jim, she is an RF, but not as we know them,” as ‘Startrek’s’ Mr Spock might say. This AEC Regal IV of the normal RF specification has a Metropolitan Cammell B35F body and is seen in the livery of a later owner, Hampson’s of Oswestry, at Dunsfold on 10 April 2011, another of the rare occasions when ‘Wisley’ wasn’t at Wisley, before moving to Brooklands.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

17/04/16 – 06:52

Pete, I wouldn’t regard this as being a “normal” RF. This was one of 25 “Private Hire” RFs, the major differences between this and the standard RF being a length of 27’6″ to the 30’0″ length of the Standard RF and glazing in the roof.

David Revis

18/04/16 – 06:08

I always thought these stubby creatures looked somewhat unbalanced, compared with their grown-up cousins!

Chris Hebbron

18/04/16 – 07:12

LUC 208
LUC 225

Here are two in service with London Transport LUC 208 RF8 and LUC 225 RF25.

Anon

18/04/16 – 17:59

OOPS! Sorry, folks, but I hadn’t realised that, apart from the roof glazing, the dimensions of these vehicles were any different. I had always thought they were of normal length but with more legroom for the sightseeing public. There is a view of an RFW somewhere in the queue, another factor in my description of ‘normal’ specification!

Pete Davies

18/04/16 – 17:59

At 27’6″ long and 7′ 6″ wide with only 35 seats and an unladen weight around eight tons (about the same as a 53-seat Leopard) these were not in high demand when withdrawn in the early 1960s, however two other firms who took to them Garelochhead Coach Service and Premier Travel, both of whom had narrow roads to serve. Both Mr Lainson and Mr Foy were also known to drive hard bargains.

Stephen Allcroft

18/04/16 – 17:59

LUC 213 survives in preservation with Wealdsman Preservation Group, Headcorn they are also listed as having LUC 212 & 216. Other survivors of the ‘Lucys’ as they were nicknamed are LUC 204, 210, & 219. 220 is also listed as a spares donor with Penfold of Meldreth, Cambs but may have been broken up by now since he sold LUC 204 to Dawes of Headcorn circa 2013.
Premier Travel of Cambridge bought& operated 8 of the LUC’s from LT in 1964 they were LUC 202/3/4, 206/7/8/9 & 211.

John Wakefield

20/04/16 – 11:17

The Garelochhead ones (courtesy Andrew Shirley’s GCS Bromley Garage website) were LUC214,215 and 224 numbered 39-41.

Stephen Allcroft

23/04/16 – 06:33

These private hire RFs were ordered before the legal maximum length was increased in 1950 to 30 feet. When the new limit became effective, it was too late to change the dimensions of the first twenty-five machines then under construction, and these, together with the Park Royal prototype UMP 227, became the only short wheelbase 27ft 6ins long Regal IVs ever produced. LTE quickly amended the specification for the subsequent six hundred and seventy-five RF deliveries. The short RFs were all withdrawn by LT during 1963, whereas the thirty footers ran on reliably for upwards of ten more years. The registration letters ‘LUC’ were carried by many members of the RFW, RT and RTL classes as well as the short RFs, and the name ‘Lucy’ was never applied in London service.

Roger Cox

23/04/16 – 13:27

Roger, I am quite relieved by your confirmation that “Lucy” was never used by LT staff. As a member of LT’s Bus schedules office at 55 Broadway in the late 1960’s and early 70’s I was surrounded by any number of feral bus enthusiasts and I’m sure that if that expression had been used I would have heard of it.

David Revis

23/04/16 – 17:47

The reason for their withdrawal in 1963 was a dire shortage of drivers at that time and the consequent need to concentrate manpower/overtime on keeping normal services going, causing LTE to abandon private hire work.

Chris Hebbron

24/04/16 – 07:05

David, I was a schedules compiler at Reigate at about the same time. We can preen ourselves on our skills in producing efficient duty schedules within the very tight constraints of the T&GWU agreements then prevailing. As an expatriate Croydonian in East Anglia, I don’t know about the current situation in London, but the present day schedules of the provincial big groups, unfettered by such agreements, are kids’ play to compile, and often inefficient into the bargain.

Roger Cox

01/11/17 – 07:14

I have read that the last ten of these 27 foot 6 inch long vehicles were modified to Green Line standards receiving route board brackets and overhead luggage racks. Quite when this was done I don’t recall.

Mike Beard

02/11/17 – 06:36

This vehicle is now back on the road having been repainted in original livery and mechanicals serviced as part of the Quantock Heritage Fleet.

Roger Burdett

London Transport – AEC Regal IV – UMP 227

UMP 227

London Transport
1949
AEC Regal IV
Park Royal B40F

I have submitted this vehicle under the London Transport heading as it is in ‘Country Area’ green and carries the London Transport fleetname. It is an AEC Regal IV with Park Royal B40F body, new as an AEC Demonstrator in 1949. Neither the Jenkinson list of 1978 nor the PSVC list of 2012 gives it a model number. It now forms part of the collection at Brooklands, where we see it (newly restored) on 13 April 2014.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

10/02/17 – 07:04

Looking through the driver’s windscreen this bus seems to have the later control binnacle beneath the steering wheel as produced for the Regent V/Reliance from around 1960. It also looks to have the Monocontrol semi-auto gearchange on the side of it. Was this original or has it been modified at some stage?

Philip Halstead

10/02/17 – 07:05

When this vehicle was constructed in 1949 the maximum permissible length for a single decker was 27ft 6ins. This one and its left hand drive counterpart, together with the 25 private hire examples of the LT RF class were the only Regal IVs built to that length. After serving as a demonstrator with London Transport at St Albans, and then with others including SMT, UMP 227 went back to AEC as a works hack, where it managed to survive into preservation. The bodywork styling is clearly related to the immediate pre war LT Chiswick and Park Royal built buses of the Q, TF and CR classes.

Roger Cox

According to Alan Townsin’s book ‘Blue Triangle’, there were two Regal IV prototypes – as Roger has mentioned – both with Park Royal bodies. UMP 227 was finished in green livery as seen in Pete’s photo, and the other – a left hand drive version – wore a blue livery and went to Holland for a time before returning and being sold around the mid-1950s. (Sadly where it ended up is not stated). The author states that the prototypes “had chassis numbers in the U series of numbers used for experimental parts, a practice that became usual for subsequent prototypes or experimental vehicles, though the production type numbers were 9821E and 9831E for right and left hand versions”. UMP 227’s chassis number is given as U135974, but that of the left hand drive prototype is not mentioned.
Philip, the same source describes the Regal IV as having a “horizontal A219 version of the 9.6 litre engine and air-operated preselective gearbox, and air pressure brake operation”. I would hazard a guess – a foolish thing to do on this well-informed website I know! – that the ‘Monocontrol’ semi-automatic gearchange binnacle you mention may well have been fitted during UMP’s subsequent life as an AEC Experimental Department hack.

Brendan Smith

11/02/17 – 06:38

Philip, I’ve just had a look on the London Bus Museum website, which states that UMP227 was “originally fitted with air-operated pre-select gearbox, later fitted with mono control (sic) with overdrive on 3rd and 4th gears”. Well spotted that man!

Brendan Smith

11/02/17 – 06:39

UMP 227 does indeed have Monocontrol transmission.

Mark Evans

12/02/17 – 07:14

Regarding the second prototype fitted out as left hand drive I have a very vague recollection of seeing a photo somewhere, I know not where, of it being used as a roadside cafe somewhere in the south of England.
I am probably totally wrong and having a senior moment if so I apologise in advance.

Diesel Dave

12/02/17 – 07:17

I see distinct similarities to the 1950 AEC Regal IV/Park Royal demonstrator VMK 271, which ended up on the Isle of Man as Douglas Corporation no. 31.

Petras409

19/02/17 – 07:34

In Gavin Booth’s book “British Buses In Colour” (Ian Allen 1996) there is a picture of Douglas Corporation No. 31, NMN 355 mentioned by Petras409. As he suggests, this was VMK 271, the other 27ft 6in Regal IV AEC demonstrator dating from 1950, originally built with left hand drive. It passed to the Isle of Man in 1951 and stayed there until 1974 when it was sold to Manx Metals for scrapping. A working life of 24 years is pretty good for a prototype, and testifies to the rugged reliability of the Regal IV, borne out by the long lives of the members of the LT RF class.

Roger Cox

29/05/18 – 06:41

The LHD prototype Regal IV did indeed finish up as a roadside cafe in the 1950’s, at Hindhead Surrey in a wooded car park just off the A3. My family regularly stopped there for refreshments at my insistence to look at a bus so different to anything else around. Suddenly one day it had gone, a sad day for a (then) youngster!

Peter Burton

Sheffield Corporation – AEC Regal IV – OWB 13 – 13

Sheffield Corporation - AEC Regal IV - OWB 13 - 13

Sheffield Corporation
1952
AEC Regal IV
Roe B44F

Sheffield 13 (originally 213) is passing a splendid array of shop fronts in Haymarket, Sheffield on a midday 29 to Blackburn (in Rotherham – not Lancashire). This was a works service to Shardlows Works midway between Sheffield and Rotherham. A low bridge required the use of single deckers. I cannot recall seeing a bus on this service showing a destination so presumably was not on the standard blinds. An oddity of this bus by this date (August 1967) was the plain cream front presumably after an accident damage repair. As delivered it had a City of Oxford style swoop painted blue a feature which was retained by sisters 12 and 14 to the end of their service life. I used to chat to a Greenland Depot Fitter when he worked at Greyhound in Sheffield on a Saturday afternoon. I recall him saying how unreliable these three buses were with repeated clutch and door failures. He told me one Bank Holiday weekend all three were sent on Peak District extras and all three had to be towed back to garage.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

Halifax Corporation – AEC Regal III – BCP 544 – 268


Photorapher unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee
1949
AEC Regal III
Roe B33F

Now this is one of my favourites I have travelled miles on this bus, we had a bus club trip on this bus but unfortunately I can not remember where we went, over to Lancashire I think. This bus with its very smart Roe body was originally delivered with rear entrance in 1949 but was converted to front entrance in 1954 and became a B33F.
I can remember the way the driver had to open the doors by pulling an in cab lever about 3 foot from front to back or vice versa to close them, all mechanical no such luxury as air pressure. What is a bit strange is that the Regal had a four speed crash gearbox, I wonder why the preselect gearbox wasn’t available seeing that it was standard for the Regent RT from 1938 and optional from 1947 for the Regent III. 

Strictly speaking, the preselect box was standard on all Regent/Regal IIIs, from 1947 especially with 9.6 engines. Sheffield, like Halifax, is particularly mountainous and both authorities specified non-standard AECs for a number of years. [Pre-war they continued to have 8.8 engine long after the 7.7 had become standard.]
It is generally agreed that a manual box gives more ultimate control than an epicyclic box – especially in hilly conditions. Sheffield went from preselectors to manual in 1952 for Regent III and Regal IV and stuck with manual box AECs, and Leylands, until 1961.

David Oldfield

Sorry wrong, they had pre selector gearboxes and I am sure 9.6 engines, 73 and 74 were similar Regal chassis built with double deck bodies, I am sure about the pre selector as I often climbed in the cabs of this and 269 at the back of Elmwood depot but as can be seen the door move seriously weakened the body which fell apart, the chassis would have lasted forever.

Christopher

I checked they definitely had 9.6 engines

Christopher

The pre select gearbox was designed by a Major Walter Gordon Wilson and was originally for use by British army vehicles but London Transport & Daimler made good use of it. Daimler also used it in some of their cars.

Trevor

23/11/13 – 13:48

BCP 544_5

Peter mentioned in his caption (a long time back !) that he remembered 268 being used on a bus club trip to Lancashire or somewhere. It’s taken long enough to find it, but here is my own admittedly rather poor photo of it whilst on such a trip outside Bolton Corporation’s depot in about 1965 or 1966. We visited Rochdale, Bury and Bolton Corporation’s depots on that occasion, and here it is posed alongside a contemporary Crossley SD42 which was at the time being used by Bolton’s Welfare Department and I believe was the one that was later preserved.

John Stringer

26/11/13 – 07:29

Thanks John for jogging my memory I do not remember Rochdale but I was at Bolton if you go to this link  I am on the right. I unfortunately did not have a camera in those days.

Peter

Harper Bros – AEC Regal III – TRE 251 – 42


Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Harper Bros (Heath Hayes) Ltd
1950
AEC Regal III
Burlingham C33F

I do not have much information on Harper Bros but Heath Hayes is approximately 3kms east of Cannock, Staffordshire. If you have any information and would like to share it please leave a comment. From what I have come up with they were taken over by Midland Red Omnibus Company Limited (MROC) in September 1974, the depot at Heath Hayes was closed and the buses were moved to a new Midland Red depot at Cannock.
I am not sure who built the body for the above coach but if I had to guess Duple would be fairly high on the list. This style of body was called an half canopy as there was no roof over the bonnet and nearside mudguard as apposed to an half cab which did. The Harper Bros livery was a light grey green with white mudguards and in the case of this coach a white roof not sure if the white roof was standard for all the fleet.
Is there anybody who can explain the difference if there is one between Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company Limited (BMMO) and Midland Red Omnibus Company Limited (MROC). If you know please leave a comment.

You are spot on, TRE 251 has a Burlingham C33F body as had sister vehicle TRE 241. Both new in 1950. TRE 251 was scrapped in Nov 1968, TRE241 not traced. Harper Bros had 9 AEC double deck buses & 6 AEC coaches from 1930 to the mid 1960s. If anyone requires information on Harper Bros I will gladly try to answer any queries.

Mick Bullock

The Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co Ltd (BMMO) was established on 26 November 1904. BMMO was commonly known as Midland Red & used the fleet name Midland on its distinctive red buses. After losing Birmingham services to the new West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive (WMPTE) BMMO was renamed to the Midland Red Omnibus Co Ltd (MRO) on 29 March 1974. MRO lasted until 6 September 1981 when it was divided into six independent companies: Midland Red (North) etc. Enthusiasts can learn all this & much more at Adam Harber’s excellent www.midlandred.net website.

Peter Walford

24/03/11 – 08:38

Hi I am seeking fleet list of Harpers from there start to BMMO sell out. Any costs will be met.

John Hellewell

07/07/11 – 06:38

I now live in Cheshire and have done since 1960, I was born in Walsall Wood during the war. I remember Harpers bus service very well and used it till it was taken over, sad day. It was in my mind the best bus service I have ever known, I wish I had kept some of the early tickets which were about 3 inches by 2, all different colours and individual. The half fare for me was tuppence from Streets corner to Aldridge, If I came out of the house late and did not get to the bus stop they would pick me up, I remember in 1965 getting the bus to Aldridge and my girl friend getting on in Aldridge and she was late, John Morson the driver would shout don’t get off Jim we will wait for her. I know this is not much but you may draw something from it.

Jimmie Charles

07/07/11 – 08:09

What a lovely romantic story, Jimmie – the driver knew what romance was all about! Were that service was like that today!

Chris Hebbron

08/07/11 – 06:19

Thanks Chris, I have very little to offer but one thing stays in my mind, they had a double decker that was different to the others, when you went upstairs the aisle did not go down the centre with twin seats either side but went down the off side of the upper deck with seats on the left which seated 4. does that make sense. If I can think of any more useless info I will let you know.

Jimmie Charles

09/07/11 – 07:05

Hi Jimmie the double decker you refer to is what was classed as a Low Bridge Decker by having the aisle along the offside meant the roofline could be lower, the normal height would be 14’6 a low bridge if I remember correctly was around 13’6. I stand corrected but I think the fleet number was 3, if you remember you had to step up from the aisle into the seats and downstairs you had to mind your head if you sat by the offside window. I used to work for Harpers for a few years from 1964 both part time and full time conducting and driving (happy days) so if their is anything that you want to know and I can give you the answer I will

Phil Burton

09/12/11 – 08:33

Jimmie you have brought back a lot of memories. I to was born in Walsall Wood and remember Harper Bros with affection both for Bus services… Cannock through Brownhills to Kingstanding; Saturday Football Coaches to Villa, WBA and Wolves, and Saturday Holiday Coaches to North Wales resorts, New Brighton, Southport and Blackpool. In school holidays worked at their Aldridge Garage taking Holiday and Day Trip bookings. Most reliable and considerate firm out, our annual trip to Colwyn Bay would never have been the same, especially as coach hardly made the big hills at times, or had to pull in and wait to cool off. Still have a model Guy Arab in their colours, prized possession.

Ken Paskin

01/04/12 – 08:36

Has John Hellewell managed to acquire a Harper Bros fleet list yet, as I could supply him with one if required.

Mick Bullock

15/04/12 – 07:35

I think Jimmie’s referring to KRE 849, Harper’s fleet no. 24, a Burlingham lowbridge bodied Guy.
Mick – any chance of a copy of your fleet list, please?

Graeme Fisher

04/07/12 – 05:14

I remember Harpers with great fondness as a young lad from the 1960’s when a bus conductor called Jack used to let me ring the bell on journeys between Hednesford and Aldridge. I am always on the look out for photos from this period and as someone has mentioned I also would love a fleet list. If anyone can.

Keith Harley

17/07/12 – 07:11

Phil and Jimmie
The lowbridge double decker was fleet number 24, KRE 849 with Burlingham bodywork.

Graeme Fisher

21/07/12 – 07:43

Graeme
Thanks for the confirmation, I wasn’t sure of the fleet number as I was only a child when I used to ride on it from Cannock to Kingstanding on Saturday afternoons with my dad who used to conduct it as well as other buses in the fleet, happy memories. When I worked for Harpers it was long gone.

Phil Burton

23/07/12 – 07:53

I would also be interested in a Harpers fleet list.

Alan Nicholls

22/09/12 – 06:57

The depot at Heath Hayes wasn’t closed when Harpers were taken over, I think Midland Red used it for 3/4 years before opening the new depot at Cannock.
When Midland Red lost a significant proportion of its operating area (and depots) to WMPTE, it found itself short of depot capacity and therefore reopened a depot at Cradley Heath which had closed some time earlier. When the Cannock depot was opened, both Heath Hayes and Cradley Heath depots closed. (Yes, I know Cradley Heath is nowhere near Cannock, there must have been a bit of a swap about of routes). I believe that some of the staff from Cradley Heath actually transferred to Cannock, which must have been something of a hike for them.
Incidentally, after the loss of routes to WMPTE Midland Red publicly stated that it was on the acquisition trail – so it wasn’t too much of a surprise when, before too long, it had bought not only Harpers but also Green Bus of Rugeley.

David Call

02/10/12 – 15:22

I remember the Cannock garage, My uncle drove for Harpers and lived in the house next to the garage. I’m no sure if the house an garage are still there. Does anyone have any photos of Harpers Garage in Cannock?

Merv

27/10/12 – 05:57

Harper’s garage at Heath Hayes was demolished some time ago and replaced by housing. Their small garage at Aldridge survives as a carpet shop. As others have said, they were a special operator in their day and sold out because Albert Harper wished to retire and no other family member was interested.

Tony Martin

07/02/13 – 06:42

I have very fond memories of Harpers of Heath Hayes as my father, the late Joe Martin was a driver for them during my childhood in the 1950’s and 60’s. I can remember a couple of other drivers, Jack Slater, Ernie ??? We lived in the village too, so I was always going on trips during school holidays with the Labour Club, The Cons Club etc. I have a photo of my dad pictured at a reunion of drivers and staff some years ago, which I will dig out and place here. I also have some black and white photos of a couple of trips with all the children, mothers and even Nurse Girdlestone assembled (a local Heath Hayes character from the 50’s and 60’s!) They show just how many people were transported to lovely places for the day by several drivers on the same day. It was like a coach convoy!
My friend’s late mother also worked in the office at the Harpers garage on the Stafford Road in Cannock, her name was Vera Sherratt and we still often talk about this great local company, who served this area of the Midlands very well. My parents originally met on my dad’s bus too on the route to Chapel Ash. In later years he gave up his job as a driver for Harpers before Midland Red took over, to work in my mothers grocery shop in Mill Street, Cannock – he always said he felt like his driving wings had been clipped!
Sorry that my account is not too bus related, but this lovely company was always held in high regard by everyone that travelled with them.

Carol Jones

20/02/13 – 16:55

Hi Carol, I remember your late father both as a child, when my late father Cyril Burton worked different shifts with him as his conductor & some Saturdays I would have a ride to Kingstanding have a cup of tea in the billiard hall with Joe & my dad then ride back, also when your father would be the driver of an excursion to the seaside we would be going on, no motorways then. Also when I started part time with Harpers as a conductor I worked with him a few times but he did mainly excursions & private hire work then. Other drivers who would have worked for this iconic company at the time Joe was there & he would probably bring up in conversation would be George Brown, Jack Poiser, Joe Scott, Norman Mills, Eric Thacker, Les King, Ray Wilce, Tommy Owen, George & Bill Elsmore to name but a few. The people who were served by Harpers Buses & crews had no idea what a great reliable service they had until 1974 when they lost it, I bet they wish they had Harpers now.

Phil Burton

09/06/13 – 11:38

I remember Harpers well through my childhood and youth. They had a garage and small booking office at the corner of New Penkridge Road Cannock with Dartmouth Avenue. One of their renowned drivers was named Jim Brown and he lived nearby in New Penkridge Road and I was at school with his son Emlyn.
My Aunt at Wedges Mills used to organise coach trips with Harpers through many summers late 40s early 50s – Rhyl, Blackpool, New Brighton, Evesham at blossom and fruit times and London all being popular Sunday destinations leaving happy memories. My Aunt was a nervous passenger and was always more nervous when Jim drove the coach as she considered him a “speed mad driver” and she often used to say ” He will kill us all” – in truth he was a good driver and she was just suffering from nervousness.
Also recall that on Saturdays when Wolves were playing at home at 2pm a single deck and a double deck Harpers would pass through packed with supporters to the game.
In the late 50s my method of transport to my first job was via Harpers single decker from Cannock (Rosas Cafe) to Brewood via Hatherton, Calf Heath and Four Ashes a life line for those places at that time..

Tony Bibb

10/03/14 – 14:53

I too used to travel on Harpers buses 1948-1964
I lived in Hatherton Village, Cannock.
Yes the bus drivers used to know every ones ‘habits’ and would wait for any of their usual passengers if they were late. Conductors helped you on and off the bus with any luggage.
I remember going to school one very deep snowy morning in Brewood, and the bus got stuck in a drift on Somerford corner, so the driver Harry, locked up the bus and actually marched us all round to our school in a line. Then went back to sort his bus out.
Nothing was too much trouble for any of the drivers or conductors.
One of the drivers I remember by name was Levi, and the guy that wore the brown overall, was he the Inspector Mr Cardman or something close to that name.
Oh what memorable, pleasant happy days.
Service with a smile always. It was a grand company.

Carole Mears

19/03/14 – 07:33

Hi Carole I think the names you are thinking about are possibly Levi Humphries and Athy Carden. Like you say pleasant happy days.

Phil Burton

11/08/14 – 09:54

It’s been a couple of years since I have been on this site, I am amazed how much has been added since then, I found the picture of the tickets interesting & remember them, however before those tickets which rolled out of a small machine when the handle was turned, the conductor & I do remember Jack if it’s the same man had a kind of wooden clip board which he took the individual tickets out & punched a hole in them, does anyone remember those wonderful different coloured tickets? Why didn’t I keep some. Also, after reading your articles I felt a warmth which you don’t get these days, also, I remember the day trips to Wales, a real treat for ordinary kids who had very little & there were plenty of us. How lucky we were.

Jimmie Charles

11/06/16 – 05:31

As a lad of 13 during the late 60s l went on many day trips with Harpers during the school holidays. My late mother and father would book the tickets for us from a little office in Park Road Sutton Coldfield,close to where we lived. We would meet the coach at a place called Harman Road and the adventure would start. We had no car and limited amounts of money, but Harpers helped to create some of the happiest memory’s of my life, l will never forget them and their ‘family ‘of friendly drivers.

John Starkey

19/06/16 – 05:55

I worked for Harper Bros in their Heath Hayes office from 1962-1974,then Midland Red 1974-1978. I did a short period of working at the ‘Gloria De Luxe Office in Sutton Coldfield, before moving to Head Office. Best time of my working life.

Pam Harris (Nee Dodd)

08/11/17 – 06:24

I remember Harpers Buses fondly from my early days. We lived in Stonnall and my Nan lived in Commonside Brownhills so we either got a bus to Streets Corner or the Brownhills bus to Freezeland Lane.
We then moved to Aldridge and continued to use Harpers buses.
Even our Bruce dog used them – he was a pretty savvy Corgi-Collie cross. He’d always gone on the buses with Mom and Dad and knew enough to hop on a bus at the corner of Leighswood Ave and Northgate, get under the seat and then get off at Streets Corner and go to my Great Grandad’s house and then, having found no one in, trot off round to Nan’s. He did a similar trick but went back to our old house in Main St Stonnall before going down to my Gran’s in Cartersfield Lane. He got away with this because the conductor, Levy who many will remember, knew him.

Chris Smith

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

07/03/20 – 07:25

As a lad of 17 I lived in Clacton-on-Sea and often took one of Suttons Coaches to London to visit my Grandfather.
I very clearly recall the delivery in 1947 of New Leyland Tigers and AEC Regal III’s. A couple of times I travelled on the inaugural trip of one of these vehicles.
While I am almost 90 I still recall those trips very clearly. I have trawled the web looking for pictures of these and my only find was A Tiger LVX 679 and LVX 680. I have found info on AEC Regal OTW 50 but no pictures. Do you have any ideas about places to look.

David Hawksworth

09/03/20 – 06:39

David if you use the search facility on the “Bus lists on the web” site it will bring up results from the “flickr” photo sharing site of OTW 50.

Stephen Howarth

09/03/20 – 06:40

A gentleman called David Troughton wrote a book on Suttons of Clacton a few years ago. I have a copy but can’t find a supplier on the internet.

Nigel Turner

Lancaster City Transport – AEC Regal III – KTF 581 – 581


Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Lancaster City Transport
1949
AEC Regal III
Strachans B36F

This in my mind is what an half cab single deck bus should look like, mind you the 50-50 split livery of this Lancaster Corporation does help. I’m not all that knowledgeable about Strachans bodybuilders I think I went on a Ford demonstrator which had a Strachans body once when it was on loan to Halifax Corporation. 
This bus was originally delivered new to Morecambe & Heysham Corporation along with its sister vehicle KTF 582, I’m not sure what fleet numbers they had when at Morecambe & Heysham, if you know please leave a comment. They were both transferred, sold or exchanged to nearby Lancaster in 1953, I think there was a close working relationship between the two corporations, I read somewhere that Lancaster actually took over Morecambe & Heysham bus fleet in the early seventies.
Lancaster had a very strange way when it came to fleet numbering they used the registration number which meant out of there fleet of 37 buses in 1965 the lowest fleet number was 70 and the highest was 965, now that was different.

In 1974, local authorities were reorganised – the most dramatic being the invention of Metropolitan Counties such as Greater Manchester and Merseyside. The City of Lancaster borders were extended to include the boroughs of Morecambe and Heysham. As a result, Morecambe and Heysham buses came under common ownership with Lancaster – hence the take over.

David Oldfield

KTF 581/2 were new to Morecambe and Heysham in January 1950 and allocated fleet numbers 52/3. When new they were 35 seaters. They were withdrawn in 1951 and after a period in store were sold to Lancaster City Transport in October 1952. They entered service with their new owner in January 1953, being withdrawn in July 1967 and May 1968 respectively.

Just as a note, the Regent III double deckers delivered concurrently, 54-65 (KTF 583-594) had a much longer life in the resort, withdrawals taking place between 1974 and 1979, some of them converted to open-top.

Dave Towers

Just to add to the above, the Regals were converted for o-m-o in January and February 1957, Lancaster commencing such operations later that year, (a process completed in 1982). Of course one-manning of half cabs was not ideal with the driver having to swivel around to face passengers and take fares, but with a fairly small capacity would be manageable!

Dave Towers

The Lancaster and Morecambe & Heysham fleets were merged on April 1st 1974 when local government was reorganised and an enlarged City of Lancaster created from five separate councils, these being the existing Lancaster City Council plus Lancaster Rural District Council, Lunesdale District Council, Carnforth Urban District Council and Morecambe & Heysham Borough Council. Although only two of these councils operated buses it was decided that blue & white was to be used for all council vehicles as none of the constituent councils had used these colours on their vehicles (dustcarts, etc). There were a couple of experimental liveries tried before the decision on the blue and white livery was decreed, though I’m not sure if any saw the light of day.

Ian Simpson

21/01/12 – 17:22

You say you know little of Strachans bodies… I worked at Strachans Coachbuilders in the 1960’s at Hamble in Hants. They were originally in London and I believe linked with Duple before they moved to Hamble, but I must say that was passed on by word of mouth, how true that is would need confirmation. However I distinctly remember working on half cab deckers for Wolverhampton, (I wonder if any survived, I think they were Bristol chassis). and single deck pacemakers and pacesavers, and some rather nice looking coaches for Rickards which had a polished stainless steel hand made grill, which I, as an apprentice had to polish on the buffing wheel! I can still smell that buffing soap!! Sorry if I’ve ambled on a bit, call it a senior moment!

Pete Hatcher

22/01/12 – 06:43

Strachans are an enigma, and I would like to know more about them, Pete – so (H)amble on.
As far as I am aware, the best Merlin/Swifts of London Transport were those early ones bodied by Strachans. Apparently they benefited from a type pf mounting which did not break the back of the bus – as the others were apt to do. If they could outdo the likes of Park Royal, Met-Camm and Marshall, why were they not better known and why did they not survive? Indeed, they seemed to fizzle out with no ceremony. [They also seemed to be a favourite of Aldershot and District for a time.]

David Oldfield

22/01/12 – 16:39

I’m glad its not only me who is a bit vague about Strachans. Unlike most body builders I don’t think there has ever been a book published about them even though they did have some high profile customers.

Nigel Turner

23/01/12 – 07:37

Apart from our common interest, it’s always nice to find that there are certain subjects which interest us particularly, I think Strachans must be one of them. I’ve always thought of them as something of an enigma because like Nigel says, they had some high profile customers and they had some nice designs too, like the vehicle above but they seemed to have more than their fair share of disasters, yet they were favoured with regular orders throughout the 1950 and 60’s. The post-war double deckers seemed to have been particularly bad, South Yorkshire’s Albions and West Riding’s Daimlers had to be heavily rebuilt and some operators found that re-bodying was the only answer. The worst of all were surely the Leyland PD1’s of Western SMT which lasted only three years before disintegrating! The Lancaster vehicle looks like a nicely balanced and well constructed bus but it known why they lasted a year at Morecambe? The fact that the pair went on to achieve eighteen and nineteen years service suggests that these were very durable vehicles.

Chris Barker

23/01/12 – 07:38

Re David’s comment about London Transport Merlins, I have heard exactly the same about Sunderland’s Leyland Panthers. Metro-Cammell bodied them conventionally and the rear of the bodies became distorted with the flexing of the chassis. Strachans mounted the rear body overhang on a cantilevered subframe separate from the chassis, and this was said to be much more successful.

Peter Williamson

23/01/12 – 07:39

Peter the Wolverhampton double deckers were locally built Guy Arabs used for trolley bus replacement duties.

Chris Hough

23/01/12 – 07:40

The Wolverhampton double deckers that Pete Hatcher worked on would be Guy Arab Vs, and the Rickards coaches were a unique batch on Dodge chassis.

Peter Williamson

23/01/12 – 10:09

Strachans also built quite a few coach/ambulances on Bedford 4.9 litre petrol engined chassis for the Ministry of Defence, I worked on them whilst with the REME in our LAD at Chilwell Depot (38 Central Workshops) in the 70’s

Roger Broughton

24/01/12 – 05:54

With regard to Chris Barker’s question about the short life of KTF 581/2 in Morecambe, there is an explanation in the new “Morecambe and Lancaster” book from Venture. I’ve actually loaned the book to a friend at the moment so I can’t be totally precise, but I believe Morecambe purchased them for a specific new service, which never actually got off the ground, and so they weren’t required in the resort.

Dave Towers

02/10/12 – 14:50

Message for Pete Hatcher (above).
You may be interested to know that ex. Southampton City Transport No.1 Reg. No. JOW 499E a Strachans Pacemaster (Body No.40214) 1967 AEC Swift built at Hamble, has just been restored and put back on the road after 20 years dormant.
You can get more information by going on the SADTHT website. SADTHT stands for the SOUTHAMPTON & DISTRICT TRANSPORT HERITAGE TRUST.

Terry Knappett

03/10/12 – 05:56

Didn’t someone (Alan Townsin perhaps) write a comprehensive history some years ago of Strachans & Brown/Strachans/Strachans Successors in one of the enthusiasts’ magazines (possibly Classic Bus in its superior days under Gavin Booth). I remember reading this series of articles, but I no longer have my old Classic Bus copies to confirm.

Roger Cox

03/10/12 – 05:57

I was once told (this would be the mid-1960s) that the two Morecambe & Heysham Regal IIIs were withdrawn and subsequently sold to Lancaster because the steps had proved too steep for the borough’s elderly residents. This came from an M & H conductor who seemed to speak with confidence, as if to suggest that he had been in the employ of M & H at the relevant time. I agree that this explanation does seem a little odd, bearing in mind that there would be elderly people in Lancaster as well – but no doubt not nearly as many.

David Call

29/10/12 – 07:09

Further to my post of January, I’ve now come across the reference to KTF 581/2 in Harry Postlethwaite’s book. He says that these vehicles were purchased for a service to Middleton Tower Holiday Camp which did not materialise (the service, not the camp!), as the camp decided to provide its own transport.

Dave Towers

12/11/12 – 10:51

For Pete Hatcher.
The two top designers at Hamble were Colin Holt and Dave Hoy and Colin did all the design work for the first AEC London Transport “Red Arrow’s”. I was a drafting office apprentice from 1964 to 1970 and then returned later just prior to Strachans closing. It was a great place to work as we handled everything from single and double deck buses, military bus/ambulance conversions, semi-luxury coaches, Ford Transit vans and conversions, Military truck bodies on Bedford R series 4×4 chassis right through to special ‘one offs’ like the railcar for the Sadler Rail company. Mention has been made of the coaches for Rickards and these were unique as if memory serves me right, they failed the tilt test with the overhead parcel racks installed. They were re-tested with the parcel racks tied to the tops of the seats and the racks were installed when the coaches were shipped over to the continent. I was there when the first AEC Merlin bare chassis was delivered with a somewhat white faced driver. With the rear engine, the front wheels lifted off the road under acceleration, all subsequent chassis deliveries had boxes of engine blocks strapped on to keep the front wheels on the road. When Strachans closed I believe that both Colin Holt and Dave Hoy went to Duple and it would be interesting to contact them if they are still in the Blackpool area.

Dick Henshall

13/11/12 – 06:52

What a fascinating couple of tales, Dick; the sort of insider stories that help to make the bus subject so interesting.

Chris Hebbron

19/05/14 – 18:30

I worked on Lancaster corporation buses in the early 60s. Passed my test on a Crossley with a dodgy gearbox. Double decker’s in those days, were Guys, Crossley’s, and Leyland’s. Had to prime the Guy’s and start them with a rope on the starting handle. Single deckers, 2 Daimlers, one with only 14 seats.

G Seaman

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

20/06/16 – 06:35

The thing that puzzles me is why did M&H go to Strachans for these Regal’s bodies when at the same period they bought several batches of Regent with Park Royal bodies.

Keith Wardle

20/06/16 – 09:08

I can only think that, somehow, Strachans offered a better price!

Pete Davies

Devon General – AEC Regal III – LUO 594 – SR594


Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Devon General
1950
AEC Regal III
Weymann B35F

It is amazing how many buses after serving their time as public service vehicles were bought by private companies as staff transport vehicles. I have quite a few and I will title them by their original owner but they will also be categorised under “Staff Transport” as well, thus giving another individual section of vehicles on the website. If you have any shots of staff transport vehicles send them along, if you don’t know the history no problem it can go on the “Do You Know” page first I am sure somebody will know.
One of the problems with staff vehicles is that they just served a purpose of transporting workers, and their appearance really didn’t matter, hence in this case the overall single colour which makes it look rather drab. But if you ignore that you can see the lower body panels giving the Weymann flared skirt body and the distance between the windscreen and the top of the radiator which makes it look older than it really was. You can also see that the passenger doors closed inside the body at the top of the stairs rather than the bottom flush with the body panels.
A sister vehicle to the one above was sold on to an independent bus operator, when I am reunited with my old copies of Buses Illustrated I will add the details, all I can remember at the moment is that it was in a small market town and seemed to be an all white livery.

27/02/12 – 13:53

Oh how this photo takes me back to 1964 when I was 10. I remember traveling on Devon General A E C Regents from Buckfastleigh to Newton Abbot. I spent almost 2 years in Hapstead House a home for sick children on the edge of Dartmoor, I still have that unique engine sound in my head of the A E C Regent, thank you for reminding me !

Frank Saint Clair

28/02/12 – 08:03

May I also share memories of seeing these operating in Dawlish during 1955 when my parents and I were staying in my Aunt’s house on Haldon Moor. We used to walk down from the Moor in the mornings but my Aunt refused to walk back so we caught the bus each evening.
In 1956 we bought a caravan in Shaldon, near Teignmouth and I clearly recall seeing several Devon General vehicles parked in a small square/stand. Sadly, being only 7/8 years old I didn’t have a camera and have never seen any pictures of the scene since. It’s a place on my list to return to.
Have any of these DG AEC’s survived into preservation please?

Richard Leaman

29/02/12 – 17:23

Yes Richard one of the Regals survives there was a recent (2011) picture in a recent issue of Buses magazine

Chris Hough

25/08/19 – 07:47

LUO 594

Browsing again, I came across a photo of this vehicle taken at Newton Abbot bus station in rather better paint condition on 23/9/1961. I had been on a day trip to Buckfast Abbey (by car). These vehicles always looked to be giving everyone a severe frown!

Geoff Pullin

26/08/19 – 07:00

Buckfast Abbey … memories not of Diesel smells but treacle tart!

Mr Anon

Halifax Corporation – AEC Regal III – AJX 848 – 258


Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee
1949
AEC Regal III
Roe B32R

A Halifax Regal III bus in coach livery of all over cream with an orange waistband, there was no difference whatsoever that I know of between this Regal and one in the usual green orange and cream except the livery. This shot shows very clearly how this vehicle has been converted for one man operation by the layout of the windows to the left of the drivers cab, I think this conversion would have happened at a later date than the rear to front entrance conversion of 1953/4. You can also see the old style pop-up trafficators, one on the waistband in front of the passenger compartment doors and the other just to the bottom left of the drivers windscreen. I doubt if this vehicle would of been converted to flashing indicators before being withdrawn from service with Halifax in 1963.

Converted at the same time I am told

Christopher

13/03/12 – 06:21

If my memory is still up to scratch, the reversed livery denoted OMO when it was first tried out. Much later, a form of reversed livery was used on DP vehicles and coaches, but by that time OMO was universal on single deckers, which had reverted to normal green and orange.

John (tee)

20/09/12 – 06:55

Is it possible to read the wording underneath the Halifax coat of arms? I think the wording is “Halifax Joint Committee”.
The legal lettering would have referred to the owner of the vehicle, either Halifax Corporation or, in those days, the Railway Executive.
This was a JOC vehicle and the old joint crest which included reference to the two railway companies was obsolete by 1949.

Geoff Kerr

British Rail – AEC Regal III – KRR 261


Copyright Ian Wild

British Rail
1949
AEC Regal III
Weymann B35F

British Rail ran a staff bus between Sheffield Midland Station and Tinsley Marshalling Yard and at various times used this ex Mansfield District bus (fleet number 15), similar KRR 264 and KRB 88 which was an ex Midland General Leyland PS1 with a similar body. All ran in the colours of their previous owners. Later the work was contracted to Chesterfield Corporation who used one of their fleet of AEC Reliances to cover the duties.
One of Sheffield’s 1957 Regent V/Weymann is behind, laying over at the terminus of service 60 to Crimicar Lane. This service had been extended from its former Leopold Street terminus in the City Centre to provide a useful link to the Midland Station. In the background one of the 1960 Alexander bodied Regent V is about to turn left into Pond Street Bus Station.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

11/05/11 – 15:37

Fascinating. Was a regular user of the 60 between Crimicar Lane and Midland Station – especially on the said Regent Vs. Was never aware of – and therefore never saw – the British Rail staff buses of any description. PS1 would have been 1946 onward but Regal III would have been 1947 onward. Other than that, I’m no help at all with the date.

David Oldfield

11/05/11 – 19:32

Not a terribly helpful comment, but I believe C T Humpidge was responsible for the blacking out of the cross pieces on the destination indicators as seen on the AEC Regent V and he took up post following R C Moore’s retirement in May 1961.

John Darwent

12/05/11 – 07:00

Yet another fascinating Sheffield picture. In tram days, there had been additional cars on the Walkley section of the main cross-city route to Intake running between Walkley and the Midland Station, quaintly showing ‘LMS STATION’ on their blinds. When the buses took over from the trams on 8th April, 1956, the new 95 bus service was extended at the Walkley end from the old tram terminus along to Tinker Lane, and additional buses were put on between Elm Tree at the Intake end and Walkley (South Road) where the trams had terminated, but the connection to the Midland Station was severed.
To reinstate that link between the railway station and the city centre, and no doubt to the delight of Fulwood passengers who up until this time had managed to get only as far into the city centre as Leopold Street, alternate journeys on the route 60 Fulwood were extended from Barker’s Pool down High Street and Commercial Street to the Midland Station. Imagine getting off your train to be greeted by just such a sight as this one, of a splendidly turned out AEC Regent V waiting on the station forecourt. The heyday of the bus, indeed.

Dave Careless

12/05/11 – 07:03

Ah what beautiful vehicles! There were 25 PS1’s new to Midland General in 1948 and 24 Regal III’s new to Mansfield District in 1949. The bodies were similar but the PS1’s were bodied by Saunders, withdrawal of these started in 1962 and was completed in 1964, Two went to British Rail, KRB 87/88 in 5/64 and 4/63 respectively. About a dozen of the Regals were transferred to Midland General in 1958 and whilst MDT began to withdraw their remaining ones in 1962, MGO kept their acquisitions until 1967, just short of 20 years service. They usually worked out of Alfreton garage on MGO’s ‘rural’ services E2,E3,E4 and E5 between Alfreton and Matlock, routes with some very steep hills, but their 9.6 litre engines could out-perform the later LS’s and MW’s any day! I remember being taken to Matlock on summer Sundays and I loved to travel on these, which were always kept in beautiful condition. On arrival at Matlock Bus Station, they kept company with Silver Service’s wonderful vehicles and North Western’s Bristol K’s. Matlock was a great place to visit then!
Fortunately, one of the Regals, KRR 255 is preserved and I believe it usually resides at the Midland Railway Centre, Butterley, Derbyshire.

Chris Barker

12/05/11 – 07:05

The KRR Regal IIIs were new in 1949. KRR 255 is preserved and active.

Peter Williamson

26/10/11 – 10:45

After service with British Rail KRR 261 went to Sykes a dealer at Worsborough Dale South Yorkshire.
Does anybody know if this dealer is still trading?

Gren

01/12/12 – 15:53

Am I right that Paul Sykes of Sykes is the same Paul Sykes who developed the giant Meadowhall mall in Sheffield & other ventures, one of the richest men in England?
He probably doesn’t need to strip buses much now, but is the company or yard still going?

Joe

09/06/14 – 06:55

British Rail in 1949?
oh no! Please gentlemen, surely it could only have been British RailWAYS ?
Unfortunately that error seems to be perpetuated by most of the present day railway and model railway press.
Despite that pedantic comment on my part, I have to say that I find this to be a marvellous site which I visit regularly.
Thanks to all involved

JOJ184

09/06/14 – 11:09

JOJ184, I’m afraid you are making the same error as those you are complaining about. There is nothing pedantic about accuracy and you are being accurate. Far too many people, particularly those working for various media, who claim great education, research and gravitas, daily project errors onto the airwaves, into print and on line.
Given their standing and the widespread unthinking acceptance by the public of what they read and hear, especially from rolling news and internet sites such as Wikipedia, historians and researchers of future generations are going to have their work cut out to reach the truth.
Rant over!

Phil Blinkhorn

10/06/14 – 07:56

I’m not sure that anyone is being accurate actually. 1949 is the year the bus was new. The date it was photographed with BR is as yet unknown. It would be helpful if someone could post the date on which BR changed its name, then we might have a firmer basis for saying which name should be used.

Peter Williamson

10/06/14 – 07:57

Phil, whilst wholeheartedly agreeing with your comments above I think JOJ184 has misinterpreted the heading caption to the photo.
While it is somewhat misleadingly put as British Rail 1949, the year is actually referring to the AEC Regal III/Weymann build date.
If you look closely at the side of the bus it is sporting the double arrow logo of British Rail and would have been taken sometime after 1965 hence on this occasion British Rail is the correct terminology.
Strange how the board was still known as “The British Railways Board” long after the name British Rail came into use.

Eric Bawden

10/06/14 – 07:58

KRR 255 is here https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/3601052489/

John Darwent

10/06/14 – 07:59

If I recall the British Railways rebranding took place around 1965 and included the change of name, the both ways logo and a typeface- Rail Alphabet. This justified a memorable edition of Design Magazine. It was a major step forward- clear and attractive. Apart from London Transport and its successors I’m not sure if any other combination of transport providers has ever done anything like this: logos have been generally messy, undistinguished or unnoticed and liveries- shall we say- lacking in design coherence and simplicity. Some, like SYPTE’s red and yellow or Lincolnshire RC / YTC’s purple and yellow were just awful.

Joe

10/06/14 – 07:59

For the record, JOJ184, British Railways changed its trading name to British Rail in 1965. So none of this thread would include WAYS!!

Chris Hebbron

10/06/14 – 08:02

Wasn’t the Sheffield Midland-Tinsley staff shuttle worked subsequently by SUT (using East Midland buses on summer Saturdays, when all SUT’s coaches would be in demand), and then by Booth & Fisher? I imagine the need for the contract came to an end when BR realised just what a white elephant Tinsley marshalling yard was.
And I’m sorry to be a pedant here: but, Phil and JOJ184, the British Rail reference is correct as the picture must date from after the British Rail corporate launch in 1965 . . . as the bus is clearly sporting the BR double arrows.

Philip Rushworth

10/06/14 – 08:03

I’ve answered my own question. Wikipedia says that British Railways traded as British Rail from 1965. My copy of BBF5 is dated April 1965 and shows KRR 261 still with Mansfield District. Therefore the photograph must have been taken in 1965 or later, so that “British Rail” is probably correct.

Peter Williamson

10/06/14 – 15:56

The point about the discrepancy between the date of the bus being built and the date of the photo is well made, as is the fact that the vehicle bears the British Rail logo, dating the picture to 1965 or later. With regard to the British Railways Board and the British Rail name, Peter Williamson has it spot on. British Rail was a trading and marketing name so, had this been a non nationalised company it would have been listed at Companies House as British Railways t/a British Rail.

Phil Blinkhorn

10/06/14 – 15:57

Paul Sykes the bus scrapper is also Paul Sykes the builder of Meadowhall and now chief backer of UKIP

Chris Hough

11/06/14 – 07:48

“British Rail” may be chronologically correct for the photograph, but it is still grammatically gormless. I still resent the term “Rail Station” which, to me, indicates a repository for bulk steel strips, not a boarding and alighting point on a particular mode of transport. Would Gerard Fiennes, if writing today, entitle his book, ‘I Tried To Run A Rail’? I can just about accept “Train Station”, which is compatible with “Bus Station”, but the correct term for the transport infrastructure is ‘Railway’, whatever the marketing morons would wish to thrust upon us. (Dr Johnson is dead; long live Dr Johnson.)

Roger Cox

11/06/14 – 07:50

For clarification, I took the photo on 10th February 1968 hence well into British Rail days

Ian Wild

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

24/02/15 – 15:02

EFE produced a model of an AEC Regal in British Railways livery. It has the registration HKL 842 (Sheffield?) and the code 851-SOM on the sides. Does anyone have any information about this vehicle?

Ian Rawstron

25/02/15 – 06:04

HKL would be a Kent registration Ian.

John Darwent

25/02/15 – 06:05

If you look at:
//www.classicbuses.co.uk/mdreg.html  and scroll down a bit there is a detailed history of the whole batch with a couple of photographs. It was new to Maidstone & District.

David Beilby