Turners of Chorley 1939 Leland Titan TD5 (1939) Alexander (1949) L27/26R
I went on a bus club trip on this bus to visit the bus depot in Leyland Lancashire of John Fishwick & Sons. Fishwicks were and still are a large independent operator with services in the Leyland, Chorley and Preston area. This bus was ex Ribble and finding precise information is not easy but what I did find was that a Ribble TD5 registration RN 8622 is preserved and owned by the Ribble Vehicle Preservation Trust. There is only a difference of 20 in the registration and having scrutinised photos of them both I can fairly safely say that they are both from the same batch of vehicles. It would appear that they originally had Burlingham bodies, but during the war years maintenance was concentrated on mechanical servicing rather than the bodywork so by 1949 they had to be rebodied by Alexander. Ribble actually rebodied 148 TD4s and 5s and 81 single deck TSs and whilst at it any petrol engine vehicle was converted to an oil-engine. The TD5 of Ribble Vehicle Preservation Trust can be seen here.
Western Scottish Motor Traction Co. Limited 1961 Leyland Titan PD3A/3 Alexander L35/32RD
RCS 382 is a Leyland Titan PD3A/3 with Alexander L67RD body, new to Western in 1961. It was still owned by Western when the 2012 PSVC list was prepared, but with the ‘Stagecoach’ fleet number of 19982 instead of her original. In this view, on Middle Walk, Blackpool, on 29 September 1985, It was taking part in the Tramway Centenary celebrations.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
02/01/17 – 07:45
Only my opinion, but I think they looked better when the wheels were red. That said, was there ever a better turned out large fleet than that of Western?
Bradford Corporation 1969 Leyland PD3A/12 Alexander H41/29F
After its five year AEC Regent V phase (a subject that has generated polarised opinions and been discussed in depth and at length on OBP) Bradford Corporation seemed to cast all thoughts of standardisation to the winds by embarking upon a spending policy that encompassed front and rear engined vehicle types from Leyland and Daimler. Seen in April 1970, against the emerging stark, Stalinist skyline of 1960s Bradford, is No.307, LAK 307G, a Leyland PD3A/12 of April 1969 with Alexander H41/29F bodywork. Behind it is Leyland PDR1/3 Atlantean No.295, LAK 295G with MCW H43/31F body delivered a few months earlier in December 1968.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
26/08/19 – 07:01
Great picture. When did Leyland discontinue the St Helen’s type front as all the very late PD3s I remember (Stockport and Ramsbottom) had the exposed radiator? I’ve actually started to like 60s architecture a bit in recent years BTW, it does have a stark kind of character, or maybe it’s just because the latest trends of shapeless grey and glass boxes are even worse!
David Pomfret
28/08/19 – 07:00
I don’t think Leyland ever discontinued the St Helens front on PD2/PD3 Titans. It was down to operator choice, and Leyland continued to offer exposed radiators as an option to the St Helens front until the end of all PD2/PD3 construction.
Michael Hampton
28/08/19 – 07:01
The St Helens front was not discontinued. Both it and the exposed radiator were offered as alternatives right to the end. If the dates on buslistsontheweb.co.uk are correct, the Bradford PD3s were delivered after the final Stockport ones, as were three Darwen PD2s, also with St Helens fronts.
Peter Williamson
28/08/19 – 07:02
I think both the fibreglass St Helens front and the exposed radiator format continued until the end of PD3 production in 1969 David. Some organisations preferred the exposed radiator arrangement, as it made engine access easier.
W. Alexander & Sons Ltd. 1953 Leyland Titan PD2/12 Alexander L27/26R
W. Alexander & Sons Ltd Leyland Titan PD2/12 with Alexander lowbridge bodywork RB161 DWG 917, ‘Bus Lists on the Web’ have it listed as new to Alexander in 1952, ‘British Bus Fleets have RB160 DWG 916 listed at 1953, though not all of the batch are listed. But other sources on the web have it dated at 1954, clarification on this matter may prove interesting.
As can be seen below the RB161 fleet number plate is a small plate with the letters ‘BN’ which stood for the ‘Bannockburn’ depot. It is seen at A-Bus in October 2014 on a trip in connection with the Bristol Vintage Bus Group running day.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones
06/11/14 – 08:23
This bus is not in Alexander (Midland) livery, but in the W. Alexander livery that existed until 1961 when the fleet was split into three – Midland, Fife and Northern. The fleet numbers were then prefixed with M, F or N respectively. This bus latterly ran in the attractive yellow and cream colour scheme of Alexander (Northern) and is seen in the attached photo along with sister NRB163 at Elgin depot on 6th September 1970, complete with E’ depot plate.
David Beilby
06/11/14 – 08:25
I have changed the header and copy to remove the (Midland) part.
Peter
06/11/14 – 09:06
W.Alexander & Sons Leyland Titan, DWG 917 was first registered on 4th June 1953. As part of the new vehicle licencing system the DVLA has a public website which shows if your vehicle is currently road taxed, it also shows when a vehicle was first registered, just google “vehicle enquiry service.gov.uk”, enter your registration and chassis type to check if your vehicle is covered.
North Western Road Car 1962 Leyland Leopard PSU3/3RT Alexander DP49F
This bus was one of the first batch of 36 foot vehicles that North Western acquired. Seen here with LDB 787 fleet number 787 a 1960 Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/1 with a Willowbrook duel purpose 43 seat body at the Shay football ground Halifax (I don’t think Halifax were playing Manchester United at the time).
There are still two Leopards going in Llandudno working around the Great Orme they are WND 477 which is a Duple Britannia new to Smiths then went on to Shearing’s then with Alpines. There is also an Harrington Grenadier as well, history not known.
Anonymous
20/02/11 – 06:43
1. What’s a Leopard doing on the Tiger Cub page ?? 2. The WND coach working in Llandudno is definitely a Tiger Cub, not a Leopard
Paul Statham
21/02/11 – 14:55
The last I heard this vehicle was preserved although it’s not seen in public very often. Does anybody know its current status?
W Alexander & Sons (Fife) Ltd 1961 Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/2 Alexander C41F
RMS 714 is a Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/2 with Alexander body and was new to W Alexander & Sons (Fife) Ltd in 1961 arriving just as the Alexander empire was split into three separate companies. It was delivered in Alexander’s blue and cream livery but later received the new Fife livery of Ayres Red and cream. It worked initially from Dunfermline depot, moving to Newburgh in 1964. It was withdrawn and sold in 1977, becoming a stock car transporter. By the time it was purchased for preservation around 1998 it had been re-registered JVS 541. It was restored at the Scottish Vintage Bus Museum in Fife and was again re-registered OSC 711. By 2008 the then owner had managed to re-acquire the original registration RMS 714. It passed to an operator in Somerset in 2011, but was returned to Scotland by its present owner in 2013.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones
07/05/15 – 10:50
Nice view, Ken. I’ll cross this vehicle off my list of possible future submissions. Just a small point, but isn’t the fleet number prefixed F for Fife?
Pete Davies
07/05/15 – 10:54
I found the fleet number on BLotW checked with BBF Scottish Bus Group and you are correct it should be FPD thanks for that Pete.
Peter
27/08/15 – 17:04
Some of these examples were used at Ardyne Point by G Wimpey to transfer workforce from Dunoon to the rig construction site.
Anon
25/03/17 – 10:53
This bus is now at Bridgeton Bus Garage under the care of Glasgow Vintage Vehicle Trust: //www.gvvt.org/
North Western Road Car 1962 Leyland Leopard PSU3/3RT Alexander DP49F
This bus was one of the first batch of 36 foot vehicles that North Western acquired. Seen here with LDB 787 fleet number 787 a 1960 Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/1 with a Willowbrook dual purpose 43 seat body at the Shay football ground Halifax (I don’t think Halifax were playing Manchester United at the time).
There are still two Leopards going in Llandudno working around the Great Orme they are WND 477 which is a Duple Britannia new to Smiths then went on to Shearing’s then with Alpines. There is also an Harrington Grenadier as well, history not known.
Anonymous
20/02/11 – 06:43
1. What’s a Leopard doing on the Tiger Cub page ?? 2. The WND coach working in Llandudno is definitely a Tiger Cub, not a Leopard
Paul Statham
21/02/11 – 14:55
The last I heard this vehicle was preserved although it’s not seen in public very often. Does anybody know its current status?
Photograph by unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
With – Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1963 Leyland Atlantean PDR1/1 Alexander H44/34F
This is shot of George Square Halifax where quite a few buses started there journey out of town rather than using the bus station. So here we have a Leyland Atlantean on loan as a demonstrator to Halifax Corporation it is actually from Glasgow Corporation and was number LA91 in their fleet and fairly typical to most buses in Scotland it had an Alexander body. Behind are two Leyland Titans and just turning into the square is an Hebble single decker probably on route to Rochdale as they also used the square as a pick up point. After it had finished being a demonstrator in 1965 it was sold to J Fishwick & Sons at Leyland Lancashire and became their fleet number 34.
25/07/14 – 05:36
Glasgow Corporation Transport was asked by Leyland Motors to retain LA 91 as a demonstrator and it was only in the fleet for a few months. It was “replaced” by an additional Atlantean tagged on to the next order, Glasgow Corporation Transport and it’s successors went on to operate nearly 1500 Atlanteans.
Stuart Little
11/07/18 – 07:14
I remember LA91 coming to Halifax on demonstration, it was painted in a yellow slightly beige livery with either an ivory or cream relief. It also visited Hebble, Huddersfield & Bradford in my area. Halifax also had a Wallasey Corporation Atlantean on loan for a bit, JHF 823 seems to ring a bell. A Halifax PD3 from the TCP registered was loaned to Wallasey in exchange.
Andrew Spriggs
17/07/18 – 06:34
Sorry for saying the reg of the Wallasey Atlantean which came on loan to Halifax was JHF 823, upon checking my photos it was in fact JHF 822, my only defence was that it was over fifty years ago! The Halifax PD3 which went to Wallasey in exchange was TCP 52.
Tyneside Omnibus Company 1965 Leyland Atlantean PDR1/1 Alexander H43/32F
Tyneside Omnibus Company were a subsidiary of Northern General, they may of run a more local service than the very large area that Northern General did. If you know, let me know, please leave a comment. Typical of most rear engined buses of this era it had the “bustle” look at the rear, it was a year or two later before the enclosed look at the rear appeared on the scene.
I remember these buses when I was a kid in the 60’s early 70’s. Tyneside ran the service from North Shields to Newcastle via Wallsend. Their depot was based in Wallsend and they never used service numbers – only the destination. People on North Tyneside simply called it “the green bus” service. They later adopted the service number 13 and ran it jointly from Wallsend with the Tyne Wear PTE. It later became service 313.
Bryan Scott
We used to get the 313 across from the Railway pub (now the Bogey Chain) outside Bridon ropeworks (Haggies) back in the early/mid 70’s.
RB
The Tyneside bus service travelled from North Shields to Newcastle via Howden and Willington Quay, through Wallsend, Walker, Byker, it’s terminus in Newcastle was beside the BBC Broadcasting House premises.
Allan Long
I recall seeing Tyneside Leyland bodied PD 2/12s waiting at the North Shields terminus at the top of Borough Bank. They always looked purposeful and turned out immaculately.
Gerald Walker
The Tyneside Omnibus Company had originated as a tram operator and in the 70s and 80s the drivers were still members of the tram driver’s union and not the TGWU. They operated only one or two routes between North Shields and Newcastle, where the terminus was in Croft Street, in front of the BBC offices. I don’t know if Croft Street still exists; if not it was almost diagonally opposite to the Laing Art Gallery. It was a small but very profitable depot, and the buses were generally very well maintained, which was not always the case with its Northern General Transport stable-mate, Tynemouth and District Transport. There was a friendly rivalry between the Tyneside and Tynemouth drivers who shared a canteen just off Wallsend High Street.
Tom Graham
06/05/11 – 06:54
This was the bus I used to go back and forward to school on, St Aidans It would often struggle up Rose bank with a full load of school kids on it
Mark Nugent
15/05/11 – 06:45
Croft Street still exists. The bus stop was by “Boydell’s” toy & Model Shop. I spent many a journey from North Shields to Newcastle on this Companies Buses. If memory serves me well there was a “German Barbers” by the terminus on Borough Road. I also used them when I used to work at Willington Quay.
Stew Smith
17/05/11 – 11:15
Ah – that would be Herr Cutt!
Stephen Ford
07/06/11 – 09:32
Tyneside Buses always had brown leather seats unlike the Moquette used on Tynemouth Buses. There was a conductress who worked for years on the route who always wore a man’s uniform cap. Before moving to Hadrian Road the depot was on Neptune Bank in Wallsend.Repaints were usually carried out at Tynemouth’s Cullercoats Paint Depot in John Street. I also remember that the Fleet-names were not of the usual gold and underlined style. Instead TYNESIDE was in white block capitals which together with there being no route number display gave quite an independent company look to the fleet.
Brian
20/07/11 – 05:50
I believe that the company were known as Tyneside Tramways and Tramroads and one of their services was to run trams from Wallsend to Gosforth Park Racecourse. They may have run from Tynemouth but this was all before my time. The route ran what was then cross country, I think through Biggse’s Main, somewhere near Tyneview Park, through West Moor and into the east side of Gosforth Park. I understand that this route was taken to avoid crossing the then Newcastle City boundary where there was possibly a monopoly operated by the city council. Parts of the tramway can still be found today. When I was young, in the 1940’s, they only had one route, that from Croft Street, Newcastle to Borough Road, North Shields, every ten minutes. This was run by buses but the original tramroads name was still printed on their tickets. The service was well known for its exceptional punctuality. It was always said that you could set your watch by the green bus service. The photograph above shows the bus waiting at Croft Street, Newcastle, outside the BBC studio (old maternity hospital). This building still exists although it is just out of this picture, to the right.
mked
10/08/11 – 13:49
Used the ‘Green Bus’ regular from North Shields to Howden where my Auntie lived. No numbers, just the destination. Terminus at North Shields on Borough Road did have a barbers next to it and yes he was a German. We referred to it as ‘Herr Cut’ Also spent many hours at Tynemouth’s Percy Main Depot as my grandmother worked in the canteen there. Used to go out with the crews and went all over the area for free. Great days.
Ronnie Vincent
23/12/11 – 12:19
Northern’s Percy Main depot ‘Tynemouth and Wakefields’ had several routes that criss crossed Tyneside’s route, this didn’t cause any problems because our buses were in Northern’s maroon livery and displayed route numbers, and everyone only ever called Tyneside ‘The Green Bus’ however, during the summer months we often needed extra vehicles to run duplicates on the coastal routes. If they were Northern red or Sunderland District blue they could be used anywhere, but if ‘as often happened’ they were Tyneside buses, they had to be kept well away from Wallsend or Howdon ‘Howden is in Yorkshire’ otherwise all hell would break loose when regular ‘Green Bus’ passengers discovered they’d boarded the wrong bus.
Ronnie Hoye
24/12/11 – 06:49
P.S. to my previous comments about Tyneside’s buses. Most of the Northern group used ‘Setright’ ticket machines, but Tyneside had the multi coloured pre printed type used by Newcastle Transport. I don’t know the reason but it may go back to the trams, as I believe that from Wallsend boundary to Newcastle City Centre, Tyneside’s trams ran on Newcastle Corporations tracks. Does anyone know?
Ronnie Hoye
23/02/12 – 17:42
Further to Ronnie’s last query, Tyneside trams did run on Corporation tracks between Wallsend Boundary and Stanhope Street in Newcastle; Stanhope Street was just off Westgate Road and not far from Wingrove tram (and later trolleybus) depot. Tyneside motormen received additional pay when operating over Corporation metals but their cars carried Corporation conductors on this section and all revenue (except for a mileage allowance of 2d per mile operated!) went to the Corporation. When first constructed the track at Wallsend Boundary was continuous but the overhead wasn’t and this had to be connected when through running was eventually agreed. With regard to Brian’s comments, Tyneside cars didn’t run to Tynemouth (and on to Whitley Bay with dreams of extending further) but through running was impossible as Tynemouth’s trams ran on a 3’6″ gauge whereas Tyneside used standard gauge. There was, however, a very short section of interlaced track close to the North Shields termini which, I believe, was the only such example in the British Isles. The Gosforth Park route ran via Bigges Main, across Benton Road, in between what is now the Ministry (DWP) at Longbenton and what is now the Freeman Hospital), South Gosforth and the Great North Road although Tyneside did have running powers over Corporation metals on the route Brian mentions but these powers were only exercised for a short time and were used only by excursion cars in one direction only. I don’t think Tyneside buses ever operated to Gosforth Park: in my lifetime, certainly, their Gosforth route, which operated only at times convenient for shifts in the shipyards, terminated in Rothwell Road which is behind Gosforth High Street and on the former route of the tramway. Sometime after the opening of the (first) Tyne Tunnel a peak hours only service was introduced between Wallsend and Jarrow. As Ronnie says most of the Northern Group companies used Setright Speed machines after 1956 when they replaced Bellgraphics (as we always knew them!) but Tyneside and Gateshead and District continued with Ultimates; Gateshead’s, however, were the more common 5 barrel type (as were the Corporation’s) but Tyneside’s were 6 barrel models. I’m not sure, but I would have thought that the most likely reason that those subsidiaries used Ultimates was the speed of ticket issue: Ultimates were much quicker to use (once the combinations for higher value fares had been memorised) and most of Gateshead’s routes were, like Tyneside’s Riverside route, very busy. The reason for Tyneside using 6 barrel machines may have been simply in order to reduce the necessity to issue combinations or double-issue tickets on a particularly busy service. As an aside (and I apologise for digressing), technically another Northern subsidiary also used Ultimates. The C&E Bus Company (named after Messrs Colpitts and Ellwood) were taken over by the Venture company in 1951 (almost 20 years before Venture sold out to Northern) although the name was retained; after the takeover and for the remainder of their separate existence, Venture operated the former C&E services “on hire to the C&E Bus Company” and Northern also retained the name as a non-operating company after the acquisition of Venture. At one time C&E used Ultimates and I well remember that their surplus rolls were offered for sale at the Venture office in Marborough Crescent Bus Station during the early 1950s.
Alan Hall
11/03/12 – 07:41
So pleased I’ve seen this, beginning to think I’d imagined the green bus. My mother used to get this if she’d missed the Tynemouth or Whitley Bay bus from the Haymarket. We had to run down Northumberland St, and hurry past people, to try and catch it. I liked to look out for ‘Simpson’s Hotel’ the men’s hostel on Buddle St, Wallsend. There were always men leaning against the wall outside and I tried to see inside the bedrooms from the top deck of the bus. My mam used to tell me not to stare and I felt sorry for the men not having a home. I can vaguely remember walking from Borough Road, it seemed a long way as we had to catch the bus to Marden from Saville St, opposite the old library. There was a toy shop there and I would look in the window until the bus came. Happy memories.
Lorna
11/03/12 – 15:45
I’d be curious to know who posted the “Herr Kutt” comment, as this was always a mildly derogatory term used by a very good old friend, who has as yet not owned up. “Krim” is the German for the Crimea, where they’d be speaking Russian, Ukranian, or Crimean-Tartar, none of which belong to my repertoire, but “Krimsekt” (i.e. Crimean sparkly, is much drunk in the German-speaking world, and I’ve always been partial to a glass of bubbly, so we’ll let it pass. I no longer have need of hair cream.
Tom Graham
25/10/12 – 11:58
Yes, what memories of waiting for the NEW Green buses coming along Howdon Road to pick us up at the end of Bridge Road South to take us to the Pedestrian Tunnel to walk through to Jarrow and Hebburn. Sadly the tunnel is now a shadow of it’s former self, tiles missing and escalators all dirty but those great days are now gone !!!
James Lawson
01/02/13 – 08:40
Re the comment from Stew Smith (15/05/11 – 06:45) above – Rudy Schiber was the barber.
John Slater
17/04/13 – 10:13
Northern General ran the 1st RED Atlanteans from their depot in South Shields and because of the overhang they continually demolished roundabouts until the drivers got the hang of them & stopped turning to early. Also the 1st ones were prone to losing their gearbox fluid all over the road. Incidentally is there a thread on South Shields Corporation Bus’s? which included both diesel and trolley.
Jon
Not yet Jon but if you have a photo and some copy you could start one.
07/07/13 – 14:02
My understanding is that some of the apparent eccentricities of the Tyneside company derived from it not being quite fully owned by Northern until the 1960s. Northern had an interest in the Tyneside Tramways and Tramroads Co from 1913, and a controlling interest from 1936, but it only became a limited company when Northern gained full control and could now change the name to Tyneside Omnibus in the early 1960s. This happened after the construction of the new depot in Hadrian Road, and I can remember the odd sounding local newspaper reports “New depot for Tyneside Tramways” – which hadn’t run a tram since 1930! I think had Northern had full control earlier Tyneside would have been amalgamated with the wholly-controlled Tynemouth company.
Percy Trimmer
19/10/13 – 08:10
John – the German barber was Rudi Sieber. He was a friend of my dad’s (no idea how they met but I know they used to go out shooting together at one time) and I remember being taken to the shop as a small boy to get my hair cut. I was told that he had served in the Luftwaffe during the Second World War and he reckoned to have been in Russia – which may or may not have been true, as he was a ‘larger than life’ character!
Patrick Ray
08/06/14 – 07:33
Willington Quay was well served by the green buses. The first I remember (about 1949) were Petrol Engined, with registrations JR8618 to JR8626. Bus numbers 18 to 26. From the timetable Tyneside needed 8 buses on the road. I think they always had 9, with one off the road for maintenance. This fleet of JRs was replaced by Leyland Diesels about 1950. BTY 167 to BTY 170 and CTY 331 to CTY 333; bus numbers 27 to 33. (Some years later 31 to 33 were operated by “Tynemouth” and all painted in Tynemouth Red, operating the Number 9 Route from the Tyne Tunnel to Culercoats). Next for Tyneside there were 4 buses with posh interiors again Leyland diesels with numbers from 34 to 38, but can’t remember the registrations. (Maybe ENL). After that Tyneside had a complete new set of Leylands; 39 to 47; again the registrations escape me. This was around the mid-fifties. One of this fleet embedded itself in Sammy Hendersons Sweet Shop in Borough Road Willington Quay one Sunday night. My mum got me out of bed to go and see it. I don’t think anyone was hurt, but the bus (42) was off the road for about 6 months. I then left Willington Quay and lost touch with their fleet. I think the next two buses they had were Leyland Backloading 30 footers; 49 and 50.
Rob from Willington Quay
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
11/08/14 – 09:36
Patrick Ray – Rudi Sieber was my Sister’s Father, her name is Helga. I know very little about him, my Mother Grace Victoria Baker was married to him before she married my Father John Frizzell. She worked on the Northern Buses for years. If you wouldn’t mind any insight into what he was like would be wonderful.
Glasgow Corporation 1958 Leyland Atlantean PDR1/1 Alexander H44/34F
The picture, which appears to be a pre delivery shot, shows Leyland Atlantean PDR1/1, LA1 delivered to Glasgow Corporation Transport in 1958. It was registered FYS 998 and had an Alexander H44/34F body. The Alexander body was described at the time as ‘boxy’ and remained the only body of this style with Glasgow. Alexander and GCT worked together after this, to design a more rounded and pleasing body to a new “Glasgow Style” a design which won favour from other Bus operators, around the UK. LA1 was allocated to Ibrox Garage where it spent the majority of its time in service. The legal lettering shows the General Manager to be Mr. E.R.L. Fitzpayne. He became Manager in 1943 after being Assistant Manager, and remained in post until 1969 when he retired. LA1 is now in preservation.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Stephen Howarth
14/11/13 – 06:00
Newcastle Corporation had quite a number of very similar vehicles, although the front panel was different and theirs had twin headlights. The first 14 came in 1961 the fleet numbers were the same as the registration, and they were 187 – 189/201 JVK (188 had a Metro Cammell body) then 11 more in 1961, 214/224 JVK. 221 is alive and well and part of the N.E.B.P.T. Ltd collection and can be seen on their site. However, they weren’t the first Alexander bodied Atlanteans in the area, the NGT group took delivery of 15 in 1960, KCN 181/9 were for Gateshead and 601/7 EUP went to Sunderland District. Again the body had a different front panel, and the top two thirds of the drivers windscreen was swept back.
Ronnie Hoye
14/11/13 – 06:00
Sheffield 369 was a one off identical Atlantean, shoved onto the end of Sheffield’s small initial batch of 1959 Met Camm Atlanteans and before a further short batch of Met Camms. 20 Alexander Regent Vs followed a year later in 1960. It would be 1972 until the next Alexander deckers arrived – on Fleetline chassis – although some Y type Leopards snuck in in 1968. This would be the beginning of a long love affair between STD and then SYPTE and Alexanders – ending only when First Group took over control of Mainline. [Continuing their historic practise of dual sourcing, during the Alexander years this would be East Lancs – including Dennis Dominators to SYPTE style which even closer to R types than the usual run of Alexander East Lancs clones.
David Oldfield
14/11/13 – 06:00
It would appear that Sheffield Corporation was somewhat unimpressed by the Glasgow Style as No. 369 was the only Alexander Atlantean bought in this design in 1960. It was to be some twelve years before Sheffield called upon Alexander for bodies on rear engined Daimler and Atlantean chassis.
John Darwent
14/11/13 – 09:44
When the new Riverside Museum Opened at Glasgow there was no room for this bus or the BUT/Burlingham Trolleybus. I do not think the new museum is a patch on the previous Kelvin Hall Collection. There is not as much room as there was but at least some of the trams are shown.
Philip Carlton
14/11/13 – 13:40
I rode on Sheffield 369 on the Outer Circle and wondered why there was odd Alexander-bodied one. I seem to recall it had an odd destination layout at the back. Glasgow LA1 competes with Wallasey 1 and James of Ammanford 227 for the distinction of being the first production Atlantean – all are shown as entering service in 12/58. No doubt it depends on definitions. We can safely say that LA1 was the first in Scotland!
Geoff Kerr
14/11/13 – 16:50
Your memory serves you well Geoff. 369 had a full Sheffield set on the rear albeit downside up so to speak.
John Darwent
14/11/13 – 17:42
Funny how we remember these details for 45 years. Lucky you photographed the rear, John, as not many did!
Geoff Kerr
14/11/13 – 17:42
The strange thing is that it looks like no other Alexander body before or since. Godfrey Abbott also had a couple – but I cannot remember whether they were bought new or second hand.
David Oldfield
14/11/13 – 17:58
According to The Leyland Bus The first four production chassis were as follows: The Wallasey chassis was the first numerically, followed by one for Maidstone and District, then the Glasgow vehicle and finally the one for James of Ammanford. However the Glasgow chassis left the works for the body builders a day before the others and was eventually the first into service after appearing at the 1958 Commercial Show.
Phil Blinkhorn
15/11/13 – 06:28
Re Sheffield 369 – I don’t recall short workings on the 53 to Scarsdale Road, I suppose it would be the bus replacement equivalent of the Woodbank Crescent short workings of the trams. How did the buses turn at Scarsdale Road?
Ian Wild
15/11/13 – 06:29
Glasgow LA1 in the Glasgow Transport Museum
Stephen Howarth
15/11/13 – 08:31
The original colour scheme on the Glasgow Atlantean was much more balanced than its final scheme. Regarding the Sheffield indicator layout, referring again to The Leyland Bus, there is a rear view of Sheffield 922, one of the second batch with MCW bodies, which shows a two panel rectangular destination and via display, one above the other, set to the nearside and a small rectangular service number panel set to the offside and placed on a level so the centre of that panel was level with the gap between the two larger panels – a much neater and, I seem to recall, standard layout.
Phil Blinkhorn
15/11/13 – 08:31
Easy, Ian. Turn right at lights, left at Dale/Woodseats Road and left again at top of Woodseats Road – where 75/76 already emerged to turn right to go to Meadowhead, Norton or Bradway. I have never seen a short to Scarsdale either, but it was a timing point – and an annoying one. As a student, I would often arrive in Sheffield at 2020 off the X48 18:30 ex Manchester LMS – in the days when the 42/53 was OMO to Lowedges Road with 33’0″ PDR2/1 Park Royals. One-manning was time expensive during the day but at night with few, if any passengers, these magnificent machines could shift and easily get ahead of themselves. A ten minute stop, when I wanted to get home, was not an uncommon occurrence. [Of course, intelligent scheduling could have overcome this.]
David Oldfield
16/11/13 – 08:47
Phil, Sheffield 916-932 of 1960 were the only Atlanteans with this rear destination arrangement. The following batch 933-944 of 1962 reverted to a rear triple route number only but with main and via blinds side by side above the forward lower saloon windows. The displays at the rear of 916 etc quickly fell into disuse (as did those on 369) and the destination glasses were soon panelled over. Thanks David for Scarsdale Road shorts turning – I was confusing Scarsdale Road and Derbyshire Lane.
Ian Wild
16/11/13 – 11:30
If memory serves, a foolish thing to do at my age, the early Newcastle Atlanteans had a rear destination blind, and the bonnet had a drop down step to gain access to the handle to change it, as you can imagine this was highly popular, and more often than not the blind remained blank. I seem to think that the rear number plate was moved to that spot, which tended to make it look disproportionately large.
Ronnie Hoye
17/11/13 – 06:54
Ronnie, thank you for your fascinating commentary about the early Newcastle Atlanteans. I believe that 187 and 188 were delivered in 1960 and these were followed in 1961 by a batch of 25 with bodywork split between Alexander (13) and Weymann (12). I had long been puzzled by the abnormally large rear registration plates on Atlanteans 189-238 and your memory has solved something that had me puzzled for the best part of 48 years. Well, I never! I would add that Belfast Corporation took an early Atlantean with this style of Alexander bodywork, number 551 registered 5540 XI.
Kevin Hey
17/11/13 – 09:44
Ronnie, the drop down step was a standard feature on early Atlanteans. It was a metal plate and can be clearly seen in the picture of Sheffield 369 above interrupting the topmost of the three mouldings at the bottom of the engine compartment, just below the Atlantean badge.
Phil Blinkhorn
17/11/13 – 14:09
I remember these “footplates” they were often left down. Was it customary then to ride on them thus leading to their demise?
Joe
18/11/13 – 16:43
At first sighting, I thought the batch of Sheffield Atlanteans 915-932 were quite something, with that full set of destination blinds at the rear they really stood out. When new they were put on the 17 between Dobcroft Road at Millhouses and Sheffield Lane Top, which route passed the end of my grandmother’s road, and that high pitched sound they made, rather reminiscent of a giant vacuum cleaner I always thought, was unmistakeable as I listened for them making their way along Owler Lane until late at night. They had that distinctive pitching and yawing motion down pat too, as they pulled into the stops, which was ironically not unlike the trams that had run along the same stretch of roadway just a year or so before.
Dave Careless
19/11/13 – 05:45
Re my comments on the 16th, Sheffield 916-932 were not the only Atlanteans with rear destinations and route numbers. I’d forgotten the 1962 JOC deliveries had this arrangement as well, 1350-1358 (B fleet) and 1163-1165 (C fleet). It was the 1962 A fleet 933-944 which eliminated the rear destinations leaving route numbers only.
Ian Wild
19/11/13 – 08:22
Thanks Ian, I thought there had been more with that indicator layout than in your original post as they stuck in my mind from my visits across the Pennines in the 1960s.
Phil Blinkhorn
19/11/13 – 12:06
I’m fairly sure the 1959 batches of Atlanteans, 363 – 8 and 881 – 899 (xxx WJ) just had a route number box at the rear. Funny how we’ve ended up in Sheffield again, after starting in Glasgow!
Geoff Kerr
19/11/13 – 13:58
Geoff, you are quite correct – as is Ian that the last full blind rears were on the 1962 B and C fleet Atlanteans. The A fleets (as well as the first Fleetlines 951-953) reverted to number only displays.
David Oldfield
20/11/13 – 05:40
Whilst looking through some old slides a couple of days ago, I came across this shot of the rear of ex Newcastle Atlantean 193JVK which illustrates Ronnie’s comment about the oversized space occupied by the registration number. Not sure who added the reflective number plate though! No drop down step though. The photograph was taken in the summer of 1975, on the premises of Fowlers of Holbeach Drove the bus was in the livery of Parks of Hamilton, presumably newly acquired by Fowler. The REO also in the picture, AG 6470, has I think, since been restored.
Bob Gell
20/11/13 – 06:47
…..but remember, Bob, that early Atlantean engine cowls were notoriously fragile. They were a complete unit and very prone to damage – needing replacement. 193 JVK possibly had just such a replacement. [On later Atlanteans only the middle section raised – and the ends swung out.]
David Oldfield
20/11/13 – 09:27
Have to say, in retrospect, apart from the unfortunate sad look at the front, it’s not a bad looking bus. Bit of a pity they didn’t follow through and improve on this rather than what they did. I quite liked the look of the AL with peaks (STD) and the R type, though quality was a little suspect on the latter. [Never came across an R type that wasn’t swimming in water on the floor during and after a rainfall.]
David Oldfield
20/11/13 – 11:19
David, I have to agree with your comments re LA1. I well remember seeing my first Atlantean in Stoke on Trent a week or so after the first deliveries. Apart from the shock of the new, in the context of the time, both the MCW and Alexander offerings were reasonably good looking. Where I disagree is about what followed. Whilst the Alexander balloon roof did not suit all the body styles (front engined vehicles looking the worst), the Glasgow examples were OK but the lowbridge version looked very stylish and avant garde, especially compared to everything else that was around at the time. In my area, North Western’s examples put everything else in the shade from the moment they appeared, and that included the Renowns which were delivered at the same time. On another topic, didn’t Leyland change the engine shroud after the introduction of the Fleetline which had a hinged bonnet section as opposed to the cowl having to be removed as a whole, Daimler having learned from the problems the original Atlantean shroud was causing. Regarding Geoff Kerr’s comment about Sheffield I think that Mr Oldfield is here under an alias. His real name is Forcefield. His love of all things Sheffield reminds me of a great friend of mine, one time Tourism and Conference Officer for Sheffield, Keith Cheetham, who would and could turn any conversation to Sheffield “The City in the Golden Frame”. David has a similar influence which he manages to project through the electronic media and this site is all the better for it!
Phil Blinkhorn
20/11/13 – 12:04
How kind (I think) Mr Blinkhorn.
David Oldfield
20/11/13 – 13:51
Comment was made with the best of intentions David.
Phil Blinkhorn
20/11/13 – 13:52
Again, from memory, I seem to think that by the time they were withdrawn from service, none of Newcastles Atlanteans still had a one piece bonnet, and they had all been replaced by the type mentioned by David.
Ronnie Hoye
20/11/13 – 15:49
I know it was, Phil…..
David Oldfield
20/11/13 – 16:37
David, your comments relating to the Atlantean one-piece engine cowl are interesting, as Bristol also opted for a one-piece job when it introduced the VRT. Just as on the early Atlanteans, the original VRT cowls were somewhat flimsy affairs, and were similarly prone to damage. The cowl was hinged under the rear lower deck window and was fastened at the sides by Triumph Herald-type bonnet catches. Unfortunately the catches didn’t always fasten as they should, sometimes leading to sides ‘flapping’ and cracking. A more sensible three-piece design soon replaced the original thank goodness, but considering how long the Atlantean had been in production before the VRT came along, it’s somewhat surprising that Bristol hadn’t learned from the problems encountered earlier by Leyland.
Brendan Smith
21/11/13 – 05:45
The mention of ‘being able to turn all things to Sheffield’ made me wonder if I had put the wrong picture on here?
Stephen Howarth
21/11/13 – 05:45
A bit of the classic “not invented here” syndrome !
Stephen Ford
28/09/16 – 07:00
First saw LA1 at a motor show in Kelvin Hall in the 1950s. Became bus driver in 1965 at 21 and worked at Parkhead garage where I drove LA1 often. It was the only LA with the split screen as all others had full screen at least up to 1969 when I left.
James Dearie
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
22/10/18 – 06:00
The Glasgow LA1 is based at the Glasgow Vintage Vehicle Museum (Open day Oct 18) and they have just produced a book on the Glasgow Transport’s love of the Atlanteans which are 60 this year
