Bristol Omnibus – Old bus photos

Bristol Omnibus – Bristol Lodekka – YHT 962 – L8450

Bristol Omnibus
1957
Bristol Lodekka LDL6G
ECW H37/33RD

Among the 250 LD chassis built in 1957 as the 134th sanction were scattered six chassis to the new legal length on two axles of 30ft. They are generally referred to as type LDL, but I have seen LLD used in some factory documents. Bristol Omnibus L8450 is numerically the last and seen here looking miserable in late 1962 at the Holly Lane, Clevedon terminus of service 25.
I seem to remember that as well as being the first 30ft long Bristol double deckers, instead of the then standard vacuum assisted hydraulic system, they had compressed air servo hydraulic brakes, as later adopted for the Flat Floor (F) series chassis. Whether the LDL had air suspension, I can’t recall. Perhaps the last eight vehicles of the 138th sanction, designated LDS that went to Brighton, were used for air suspension trials, which also became a very successful standard on the F series (and eventually the RE!).
As a graduate trainee at BOC, I remember being allocated this vehicle for an evening overtime duty. As a novice driver, with a full load at Bristol Bus Station, to my embarrassment, I was unable to release the handbrake! A helpful inspector recommended depressing the footbrake at the same time and hey presto all was well!
The Lodekka front cowl hitherto had a single foot hold each side of the central number plate, but these six and subsequent flat floor models had a step to accommodate two feet to the nearside.
The ECW body is distinguished by having an extra short bay upstairs, otherwise you may miss the longer last bay downstairs. There was also an extra emergency exit – the saloon window behind the cab would open. It retained the original rear door window layout with the larger radius top corners towards the centreline, rather than the arrangement on the F series where the larger radius top corners were outboard.
The six vehicles must have been very successful prototypes as they stayed in service in one form or another for a good lifetime.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Geoff Pullin

31/03/16 – 06:50

Comparing this photo with photos of a ‘conventional’ 27ft LD it seems the extra length for the 30 foot LDL was all accommodated in the rear overhang. In other words the wheelbase seems to be the same for both models. Have I got this right or is it a trick of camera angle on the photos? If this is the case it must have pushed the Construction and Use Regulations to the limit!

Philip Halstead

31/03/16 – 06:51

Another great view from your collection, Geoff! I have a view of one of the VDV series in my pile of forthcoming submissions to Peter.

Pete Davies

01/04/16 – 07:01

Philip, I don’t think that is quite right. The LDL body had the same window spacing as the FL, and F-series window bays were slightly longer than those on an LD. The wheelbase of the LDL would therefore have been slightly longer than for an LD.
The FL had its rear axle further back still, so that it straddles the last long bay and the short bay. Possibly experience with the LDLs led to this change.
It’s also noteworthy that the driver’s cab offside windows in the LDL are of the pattern used for the F-series, i.e. with a straight lower edge.

Nigel Frampton

01/04/16 – 07:02

Philip, it does appear at first glance that the LDL Lodekka’s extra length was achieved simply by lengthening the rear overhang. However, the LDL had a longer wheelbase than the LD (18ft-6ins as opposed to 16ft-8.5ins) allowing the chassis outriggers and corresponding body pillars to be spaced further apart. You would never guess this initially from the photo though would you? Personally I prefer Bristol-ECW’s positioning of the short extra bay towards the rear on the LDL, rather than amidships as on AEC-Park Royal’s 30ft version of the Routemaster. Bristol-ECW’s treatment looks neater somehow. (Dons tin hat and waits to be hit over head with tin tray).
Geoff, I believe that whereas Bristol designated the long wheelbase model LDL, for some reason ECW referred to the design as LLD, the ‘alternative’ designation you mention in your text. Also, from memory the fitting of an emergency exit on the offside towards the front was a legal requirement on double deckers of this length, regardless of whether or not platform doors were fitted.
Your embarrassing moment with the handbrake reminded me of a somewhat similar embarrassment I had as a West Yorkshire Central Works apprentice, serving a three-month stint at Harrogate’s Grove Park depot. I had been asked by my fitter Johnny Berry to bring a dual-purpose MW up from the bottom end of the depot and park it up at the top end. All went well until it came to stopping the engine. Could I find a push or pull type stop button or a stop switch? I left the bus defiantly ticking over with the handbrake on, and asked Johnny – an easy going fitter who also had a love of buses and coaches – how to stop the little blighter. He just said, tongue-in-cheek, that it was up to me to find out! Not to be thwarted, I double-checked the handbrake was fully on, stepped on the footbrake, put the MW into gear and let the clutch pedal up and the bus gave up without a struggle. Johnny said he was impressed, but said if I had simply pulled the accelerator pedal fully up it would have stopped the engine! I would have known this if I’d been brought up on older Bristols, he mentioned with a wry smile. Lovely man. Happy days.

Brendan Smith

01/04/16 – 12:11

Brendan, I don’t know when a lower deck emergency door at the front became a legal requirement. This is a 1957 vehicle, and yet the NGT Group and NCT 30ft PD3’s of 1958, didn’t have one.

Ronnie Hoye

01/04/16 – 15:14

I wonder whether the lower deck emergency door requirement depended on seating capacity? In July 1959 Portsmouth Corporation took delivery of five Leyland PD3/6 with Orion bodywork. The layout was H36/28R, so just 64 seats in a 30-footer. There was no off-side lower-deck emergency door on these as delivered. However, between Nov 1961 and Nov 1962, they were all up-seated to H38/32R. Now seating 70 (still with an open rear entrance), they were all fitted with an off-side emergency door, in the front bay behind the driver’s cab. This modification was carried out when each was re-seated. The local enthusiast understanding at the time (of the school-boy variety) was that the seating increase was the cause of the emergency door fitment. However such hear-say does not necessarily have a basis in fact.

Michael Hampton

02/04/16 – 06:27

Michael, it may be that by 61/62, the regulations had changed, and in order for the Portsmouth vehicles to be up-seated they needed to comply with the regulations at that time. The NCT PD3’s were H41/32R Orion bodies. The NGT group were 13 Burlingham H41/32RD for SDO, the remainder were Orion H41/32R, but as mentioned before, none had a front emergency exit

Ronnie Hoye

02/04/16 – 06:28

Intriguing information indeed Ronnie and Michael, which has caused some head scratching at this end, leading to a splinter in me finger. I do remember Leeds CT’s 30ft rear entrance Roe-bodied CVG6LX/30s and Regent Vs (MCW and Roe-bodied examples) having emergency exit windows in the first offside bay. I also thought that LCT’s 30ft Roe-bodied Titan PD3s of 1958 had them, but have now seen photographic evidence that proves otherwise! Could it be that the Construction & Use regulations were changed at some point along the lines of “vehicles built after a certain date must have….”? The plot thickens as they say.

Brendan Smith

02/04/16 – 07:17

Sheffield had 71 rear entrance Regent Vs in 1960 – delivered between January and April. The 25 Roes had platform doors and a rear emergency door – but none behind the driver. The 26 Weymanns had no emergency exit behind the driver. The last to arrive were the 20 Alexanders which DID have the emergency exit behind the driver. One can only surmise that regulations changed during the build &/or delivery of these vehicles.

Mr Anon

02/04/16 – 09:08

This interesting aspect concerning additional emergency exits confirms my present day terror about riding on most modern double deckers carrying around ninety persons. As if the lack of a central normal exit isn’t bad enough – causing havoc to punctual running but that’s another topic – there is only the tiniest slender emergency door at the rear offside of the lower saloons. In many cases this “arrow slit” is further reduced at its lower end by a rigid armrest for the long seat for five. I just cringe at the thought of an engine fire, or of the front door being disabled in an accident as there could only by mass panic in the manner of recent tragic football ground carnages. The often found alternative “in emergency break glass” is a farce too – so if you survive the emergency incident per se you risk being cut to ribbons by the alternative. I freely admit to avoiding travelling on any bus where there are huge numbers of standing passengers in addition to to oversized buggies and “staircase gangway blockers – I’m only going a couple of stops.” Melodramatic I may admittedly sound, but I’m sorry to say that today’s double deckers in particular are a disaster waiting to happen – and we won’t stray here onto today’s criminally overcrowded trains.

Chris Youhill

02/04/16 – 09:55

The Aldershot & District Loline I buses of 1958 had rear entrance bodies with doors but no offside emergency exit. The front entrance Loline IIIs of 1961 onwards had emergency exits on the offside rear. However, the batch of City of Oxford front entrance Dennis Loline IIs also of 1961, albeit of 27ft 6ins length, had no offside emergency door. The Halifax Front entrance PD3s of 1959 did have a rear offside emergency exit. Operator discretion seems to have applied up to about 1960, but somewhere about then the rules must have changed. I’ve tried to find the regulations on the internet, but historic data seems to be rather elusive.

Roger Cox

02/04/16 – 10:25

Further thoughts – the possible provision of a centre rear emergency exit may explain the absence of an offside door on the Oxford Lolines. My high mileage memory can’t now recall if they were so fitted.

Roger Cox

02/04/16 – 16:09

I think you may be onto something with your centre rear emergency exit theory Roger. ECW did not fit offside emergency exits on the Lodekka FSF/FLF bodies, and Northern Counties halfcab front entrance ‘decker bodies do not appear to have had them either. Both designs did however have their emergency exit door mounted centrally within the lower deck rear bulkhead. Going back to rear entrance double-deckers, LT’s first 30ft long Routemasters, delivered in 1961, had emergency exit windows on the offside. In Ken Blacker’s excellent book ‘Routemaster’ he describes the main features of the initial batch of RMLs, and then goes on to state: “Also new was the provision of a quick release emergency window in the second offside bay of the lower saloon to provide the secondary means of escape required by law for vehicles of this length”. Unfortunately we’re still no nearer knowing when such legislation was introduced. As you say, related information on the internet does indeed seem to be rather elusive.

Brendan Smith

03/04/16 – 07:37

I think I’ve got it. It seems to be about lower deck seating capacity and the positions of other exits, and it dates from 1958.
Here is an extract from Regulation 26 of the Public Service Vehicle (Conditions of Fitness) Regulation 1958, which came into effect on 11th April of that year:
(a) A half-decked vehicle, a single-decked vehicle with permanent top and the lower deck of a double-decked vehicle shall be provided with not less than two exits (one of which may be an emergency exit) which shall not both be situated on the same side of the vehicle.
(b) Where, in the case of a single-decked vehicle and the lower deck of a double-decked vehicle, the seating capacity, in either case, exceeds 30 passengers, and the exits provided in accordance with condition (a) of this paragraph are so placed that the distance between lines drawn at right angles to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle and passing through the centres of such exits at gangway level is less than 10 feet, an additional exit shall be provided at a distance of not less than 10 feet

Peter Williamson

03/04/16 – 07:38

According to Commercial Motor, November 13th 1953, the Construction and Use regulations were to be changed as “The Ministry says that the dangers of having both exits at one end of the vehicle have been increased by the use of large underfloor-engined single deckers, and particularly crush-loaders. Consequently, it is proposed that in a single-decker or on the lower deck of a double-decker, each seating more than 28 people, one exit shall be at least 10 ft. forward of the other, taking the measurement opposite the centre of each exit at gangway level.”
Hence why the FLF Lodekkas had the emergency door at the back, whereas the LDL had the additional door at the front.

Peter Delaney

04/04/16 – 06:36

Peter and Peter, thank you very much indeed for solving the emergency exit window mystery for us. In only a matter of days, the ‘OBP Supersleuths’ have won through yet again.

Brendan Smith

04/04/16 – 11:05

Thanks seconded! I’ve been wondering for some time whether Construction and Use regulations still exist, perhaps under another name. Googling has thrown up quite a lot on accessibility for the disabled, but nothing on other aspects of design and build. Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

Ian Thompson

04/04/16 – 11:06

So the school-boy enthusiasts in Portsmouth weren’t wrong! But I doubt if any of them had read the C&U regulations – I certainly hadn’t. But thank you to both Peters for tracking down the detail, so that we are all now wiser, as well as just older.

Michael Hampton

04/04/16 – 17:04

The main C&U regs seem to date from 1986, with some amendments in 1988, but a new set came out last year. I’ve not had a chance to look at them – out on the road!: SEE: www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/

Christopher Hebbron

30/04/16 – 12:14

With the exception of the Eastern National example 236 LNO which had the same 19ft 2in wheelbase as the FL, the other LDLs had an 18ft 8in wheelbase. There was also the 1966 LDL, a paper exercise for what I’ve read described as a Bristol Arab V, that would have had an 18ft 6in wheelbase.

Stephen Allcroft

29/08/16 – 06:32

I was a conductor at H & D Poole in the late 1970’s and we had a couple of these lengthened versions. The one thing I do remember is that they rode much more smoothly than the normal versions, even the rougher drivers couldn’t send you down the bus. Unfortunately although I passed my test in early 1979 I never got to drive one.

Joe C

22/01/19 – 07:23

Unlike the standard RMLs, the RCL Green Line version didn’t have an emergency window fitted to the offside second bay. In his book “Routemaster”, Ken Blacker states that “…they had no emergency window fitted into the offside of the lower deck as the one on the rear platform met the legislation”. It would seem from previous comments that it more likely one wasn’t required as they only seated 29 in the lower deck. If London Country (and later London Transport in 1980) had upseated them to the normal capacity of 72 on being relegated to bus duties presumably an emergency window would have needed to be fitted. Luckily that didn’t happen and they continued to offer a far superior ride!

Paul Evans

Bristol Omnibus – Bristol Lodekka – 961 EHW – GL8507

Bristol Omnibus
1959
Bristol Lodekka LD6G
ECW H33/27R

Here is Bristol Omnibus Bristol LD6G – 961 EHW – GL8507, new in July 1959, waiting in Gloucester King’s Square for a driver to take out the bus on the short 50B service to York Road (The Cathedrals). Note the Gloucester Coat of Arms and GLOUCESTER on side, applied to about 25 vehicles, part of the agreement when Gloucester City Council leased out its bus services to Bristol Omnibus in 1935 and which continued uninterrupted until Stagecoach took over the services from Western Travel, the privatised company created by NBC. Bristol Omnibus and Gloucester City Council operated these services, overseen by a joint committee. The bus itself was scrapped in Sept 1976.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron

22/05/17 – 07:45

Interestingly Bristol Omnibus and Gloucester Corporation both held their own Road Service Licences for the city (joint) routes. Applications in N&P were listed separately.
In York and Bristol, where similar arrangements applied, Road Service Licences were in the joint names of the Corporation and company. N&P listings read “Bristol Omnibus Co. and Bristol Corporation” and “West Yorkshire Road Car Co. and York Corporation”.
Incidentally the bus is working service 508, formerly 8.

Geoff Kerr

22/05/17 – 07:46

A very interesting post Chris. Major Chapple had just left West Yorkshire to take control of the Bristol enterprise, and his experience with the Keighley and York organisational set-up must have proved of great value. Was the Bath situation set up in a similar fashion, or was that a direct acquisition, with it being a company and not a municipality?
I am not aware of the BET organisations making similar agreements with municipal fleets, but perhaps someone will be able to tell us if that were the case?

John Whitaker

22/05/17 – 07:48

Scrapped after only 17 years…What a waste of a thoroughly sound, ideal-for-the-job bus.
Or did the Cave-Brown-Cave equipment hasten its demise?

Ian Thompson

23/05/17 – 05:13

My recollection, John W, is that Bristol Omnibus bought, outright, both Bath Electric Tramways Ltd and Bath Tramways Motor Co.. Whether these were municipal or private companies, I don’t know. Again, this was about 1935/36.

Southdown and Portsmouth Corporation entered into a fare-sharing operation after the war, having toyed with the idea pre-war.This agreement involved route-balancing at the end of each financial year, a fascinating sight to see for bus enthusiasts. Buses were swapped, but not drivers/conductors. Thus, Southdown buses, staffed by Corporation staff, appeared some years on Corporation routes and vice versa. PD2’s were common to both organisations for some years and usually swapped, but this was not always so, and I recall a Southdown Guy Arab II performing its task one year.

Chris Hebbron

23/05/17 – 05:14

The Cave-Brown-Cave heating system, which consisted of the relocation of the engine radiator in two sections to each side of the front of the upper deck, was fitted to quite a number of Lodekkas before the inadequacies of the system led to its abandonment by about 1966. Not only did the efficacy of engine cooling suffer, but the very concept of hot water continually sloshing around at the front of the upper saloon meant that the vehicle interior continued to heat up in the hottest of weather. The early Cave-Brown-Cave Lodekkas had a completely blank front panel with no conventional radiator grille, but these were soon fitted with a front radiator to ease some of the problems. I think that many had the C-B-C completely disconnected, but the equipment each side of the destination indicator remained in situ. I, too, am surprised that this bus should have gone to the scrappers so early, not least because it had a Gardner engine. The ‘in house’ Bristol BVW option was a pretty poor alternative that gave endless trouble from failure of its wet cylinder liners – AEC was not alone in suffering this problem, but Dennis used wet liners successfully from the 1930s, so it could be done.

Roger Cox

24/05/17 – 06:43

There was no municipal involvement at Bath (or Cheltenham). Bath Electric Tramways and Bath Tramways Motor Co. ceased trading at the end of 1969, their assets transferred to Bristol Omnibus Co., while Cheltenham District Traction was wound up in 1980, 30 years after passing to Bristol control.
When the EHW series of Lodekkas appeared in 1959, with CBC heating and hopper vents, there was a heatwave and reports of passengers passing out.

Geoff Kerr

24/05/17 – 06:44

Bath Electric Tramways and its motor bus associate business, Bath Tramways Motor Company, were BET companies dating from 1904 that were sold to the Bristol Omnibus Company in 1936.

Roger Cox

24/05/17 – 06:46

I’m a bit puzzled by the comments expressing surprise that this bus only lasted 17 years.
I would have thought 17 years was a reasonable innings for a bus of this period.
No doubt its 6LW engine would go on to give many more years service ploughing across the South China Sea!

Eric Bawden

25/05/17 – 10:57

Taking up Roger’s comments on the shortcomings of the Bristol engines I have always wondered if these engines were foisted on the Tilling companies who would have logically chosen the reliable and fuel efficient Gardener given a free hand. Was it that Gardner could not keep up with demands or was it a face saver for Bristol to have at least some Lodekkas with their own engines?

Philip Halstead

26/05/17 – 06:47

The AVW had an equivalent power output to the Gardner 6LW but dimensionally was roughly the same size as a 5LW and an AEC 7.7L. From that you can immediately think that given 40s/50s materials something had to give i.e. AVW longevity given the close positioning of the 6 bores and higher temperatures.
When running well the AVW was a good engine but unlike Gardners which just go on and on even with reduced performance AVW bottom ends tended to go bang with no warning.
The BVW coming out at a time of heavier vehicles was never up to the job.

Roger Burdett

28/05/17 – 08:09

I always thought of BT&CC/BOC as a ‘wealthy’ operator. The policy was that most vehicles were replaced at between 12 and 17 years. This compared with the ‘poor’ companies in the same group such as Western National and Thames Valley who kept buses for a lot longer. Remember who was operating the last K & L types in service. I think the reason was competition. Bristol had no competition whatever on urban services in Bristol, Bath, Gloucester, Cheltenham or Weston. The ‘poorer’ companies had less urban routes, large areas of rural routes and faced a certain amount of competition in places.

Peter Cook

29/05/17 – 06:58

Philip, Bristol had a history of building its own engines right from the outset. Gardner’s economical Diesel engines came onto the scene in the 1930’s and Bristol decided to offer them as an alternative to its own MW and NW petrol engines at that time. However, by the end of the ‘thirties large petrol engines in buses and heavy lorries were in decline as the benefits of Diesel economy and reliability came to the fore, so Bristol’s decision to build its own Diesel engine would have been a quite logical development. The first of a handful of experimental units was fitted to a Bristol T&CC Bristol K5G in 1939 and designated XOW (eXperimental Oil engine – W signifying an engine under Bristol’s system of using letter designations for major units). A dozen engines were then produced in 1946 incorporating various modifications (becoming the VW engine), before production started in earnest, with the engine becoming the more familiar AVW, a 6-cylinder 8.1 litre direct injection engine developing 100bhp @ 1700rpm.
The 8.9 litre BVW engine went into production in 1958/59, following trials with a handful of prototypes in 1957. It developed up to 115bhp@1700rpm, although operators could have the unit derated to give 105bhp@1700rpm if required. Unlike the AVW, which had an aluminium crankcase mated to a cast iron cylinder block with dry liners, the BVW had a one-piece cast iron crankcase/cylinder block assembly and wet liners. West Yorkshire’s BVW engines generally proved reliable workhorses, with many achieving over 300,000 miles between overhauls. True the wet liners did require attention from time to time, as the neoprene sealing rings started to perish with age. The usual giveaway was water weeping out of small ‘tell-tale’ holes on the side of the cylinder block – each cylinder having its own set of holes. It was advisable to replace sealing rings on all six cylinder liners even if only one was weeping, as the others being of similar age, would no doubt soon follow suit. As such things as cylinder heads, sump, inlet and exhaust manifolds, water rails, hoses etc had to be removed in order to remove one liner (plus its piston and conrod), it was certainly more expedient to only have to remove these items once rather than up to six times as each cylinder’s rings failed in turn! (Yes it does sound like common sense but…….!). The liners could be removed and replaced using a hand-operated hydraulic pump, with the engine remaining in situ, and piston ring and bore wear never seemed to be a real issue on WY’s BVWs, whether the Lodekkas so fitted had CBC or conventional radiators.
Relating to the supply of Gardner engines, I think it is often forgotten that although Gardner was a premium engine builder, it did not only supply much of the bus and truck industry, but also supplied a sizeable section of the marine market as well. This not only included manufacture of marine engines of various sizes, but also the manufacture of the reversing gear to go with them. Gardner at one point also had healthy orders for the supply of engines for mobile compressors and mechanical excavators. Although Gardner did increase engine production over the years, I often wondered if maybe they just did not physically have the room for expansion at their Patricroft works. This was already quite large, and incorporated aluminium, iron and brass foundries, pattern shops, castings stores and machine shops, drawing offices, engine building/testing shops, various stores and service departments, a power house, and a R&D department. Most importantly there was a large canteen on the site, which I remember using on my first visit there as a WY apprentice more years ago now than I care to remember. The apple pie and custard was beautiful!

Brendan Smith

29/05/17 – 16:58

Thank you, Brendan, for your contribution on the BVW from someone with actual hands-on experience. These are always useful, informative and welcome.
My observation is that Crosville used the BVW on all except the last (F-reg) FLFs, and non were ever changed for Gardners, so the BVW must have had something going for it. For me, the combination of BVW engine and Bristol 5-speed gearbox made the most pleasing and harmonious sound of any PSV.

Allan White

31/05/17 – 06:33

I would like to endorse what Alan W has said about the excellent contribution made by Brendan. I was a regular user of the West Yorkshire Road Car Company services in the fifties and early sixties and know what an excellent bus fleet they operated with tight control from Harrogate. They operated over avery wide area including urban routes in Harrogate, Bradford, Leeds, Keighley and York as well as many rural routes such as to the East Coast and Yorkshire Dales. I always regarded WYRCC as an ex Tilling flagship company with an intention to always have a modern image efficient fleet, so bus life generally was no more than 16 years. Sadly all these wonderful attributes changed in 1968 with the imposition of the National Bus Company and later the demise of the Bristol Commercial Vehicle Company and Eastern Coach Works in the eighties was the final nail in the coffin.

Richard Fieldhouse

31/05/17 – 11:18

Richard, obviously some were better than others, but in general the same could be said about most of the former Tilling Group companies, it certainly applied to United Automobile Services in this area.
The vast majority of BET companies were also well run, but that all went out the window post 1968 when NBC “No Body Cares” sorry, National Bus Company took control. A few choice ones that are not fit for publication, but its strange how nobody seems to have a good word to say about that particular government folly.
As for the demise on Bristol and ECW?
The same thing happened to AEC, Daimler and GUY when they were all lumped together under the control of British Leyland, not to be confused with Leyland Motors. After several years of development the end result was the Leyland National. The later ones were actually quite a good vehicle, but the early versions were an absolute abortion that would never have survived healthy competition had there been any, but operators were given two choices, take it or leave it, because there isnâ€™t anything else. How could they have spent so much time and money on development and got it so wrong.
This is only my opinion. However, at the time I was a driver for NGT at their Percy Main Depot, although running at a profit was essential for the survival of the company, it was run by people who knew the bus industry, and our vehicles were well turned out and maintained to a very high standard. Enter the new regime of NBC, they are run by government appointed accountants, most of whom have never been on a bus since they left school, but they know the price of everything and the value of nothing. They apply the principle of find the lowest common denominator, as a result, pride in fleets is destroyed, standards drop, and once well turned out fleets now just look shabby and neglected.

Ronnie Hoye

01/06/17 – 07:20

The suffocating hand of NBC didn’t happen until the Tory government of Edward Heath appointed Croda industrialist (and twice failed Conservative parliamentary candidate) Freddie Wood in 1972. Croda was a company supplying chemical products to the beauty products industry, and Wood was a believer in extracting high margins from modest sales volumes. He brought the Croda creed to an industry of which he was totally ignorant, believing that those backward bus passengers required a bland, countrywide brand to become aware of the services on offer. Buses should be sold like supermarket baked beans by inventing a new, uniform, national identity. A public transport user in Aldershot could only then appreciate the “products” on offer if a bus passenger in Bristol or Buxton was given identical branding and operating standards. Crucially also, not just profitability but notably good margins to satisfy his political overlords were the prime objectives. Cost control (and corner cutting) became paramount. The rest is history.

Roger Cox

01/06/17 – 07:21

For whatever reason though Bristol engines were never made in large quantities so operators were either ultra conservative or whole life costs were higher than Gardner/Leyland.
I have more knowledge of Gardner-Daimler comparisons and whole life costs definitely favoured the former despite the inherent smoothness of the Daimler unit

Roger Burdett

02/06/17 – 07:10

Allan and Richard, thank you for your kind comments. I enjoyed every minute of my eighteen years working for West Yorkshire (fourteen of those in the engine shop), and even in its NBC corporate days the Company tried its best to maintain certain standards. Much of this was no doubt due to the people in charge, including in later years Brian Horner, the general manager and Tom Fox, the chief engineer. The Company did fall short at times when circumstances seemed to conspire against it, and there were periods when buses had to be hired from other NBC subsidiaries just to keep the show on the road, but such situations were not peculiar to just West Yorkshire at the time.
Ronnie and Roger (C), you have both raised very valid points about NBC, the corporate identity and the bone paring thrust upon it by Freddie Wood, and I tend to agree with much of what you have both said. In the ‘seventies the mantra was often “big is beautiful”, and any large company worth it’s salt ‘had’ to have a corporate identity and a logo, which presumably wooed Freddie Wood. British Leyland was another case in point, and following all the various takeovers and mergers “became too big to be allowed to fail” as the modern saying goes. So when it eventually did in 1974, it was taken into state ownership to protect thousands of jobs. A shame then that this was not appreciated by certain sections of the workforce, and in the bus and truck world the arrogant attitude of some members of British Leyland’s senior management towards its customers probably did not help matters either.
Roger (B), probably the main reason that Bristol engines were not made in such large quantities was to do with the ‘closed market’ within which Bristol was required to operate. There was an expectation for it (and ECW) to operate at a profit, despite being denied the potential to expand its market by the private sector, so maybe Bristol endeavoured to produce as much ‘in-house’ as it possibly could. On the subject of engines, it is interesting to note that while Bristol chose not to offer Leyland engines in its buses and coaches through the ‘fifties until the mid-sixties, it did do so with its lorries of the period. Could it have been that the Bristol AVW and BVW engines could not provide the extra power required for road haulage operations? From a purely selfish point of view, what a pity we were denied the opportunity to savour such delights as a Leyland-engined Bristol K, L, LS, or Lodekka LD. It has also deprived Roger of carrying out one of his beautiful restorations on such a beast. Unless the opportunity arises for a conversion Roger…..?!

Brendan Smith

03/06/17 – 07:20

Roger (Cox) has hit the nail on the head. NBC gets a lot of flack for happenings which were not of NBC’ s making. I worked for NBC in the early years. People should remember that “local” management was still staffed by exactly the same people who had managed the companies in Tilling and BET days, and who were “bus men” through and through. The “bean counters” and those who acted as middle men between NBC and the Government were the problem,together with those who refused to see that the prime object of business is to make a profit and not sponge off the public purse.
There was nothing wrong with NBC as concept, and there was certainly nothing wrong with the Leyland National (as a concept) – it should have been the finest bus ever built. However changes in political thought and undue interference from those “on a power trip” is always a recipe for disaster.
NBC was conceived as a much enlarged THC, and Central Activities could have been a highly profitable coach operation, but their potentials were never realised.
The only saving grace was that the PTE s and deregulation/privatisation were even bigger disasters (financially) than NBC !

Malcolm Hirst

24/10/17 – 06:57

Gardners were marine engine builders primarily. It was Bartons at Chilwell who first used Gardner engines in buses – Simon Barton’s grandfather was the first to fit them!
Stolen Gardner bus engines have turned up fitted to ships. The Royal Hong Kong Police arrested a junk in 1979 which was fitted with a Gardner 6LX which had been stolen from the burnt out wreckage of Belfast Corporation Daimler Fleetline No. 714 (714 UZ) which had been hi-jacked and burned on 21st July 1972 at North Queen Street, Belfast!

Bill Headley

28/04/18 – 07:40

The route balancing described above between Southdown and Portsmouth also applied in Bristol between the City services and the Country services when I was there in the 1960s. In summer there were extensive weekend reliefs on Bristol to Weston-Super-Mare, which were turn up and go with a constant queue, and City KSWs were loaned for this, possibly as much for staff availability as for vehicle supply. To maintain the mileage balance Country service vehicles could be seen from time to time on City routes. I don’t remember any “On hire to …” notices were necessary in the window.

Bill

30/04/18 – 06:10

In response to Bill’s post above, I also remember the bank holiday’s on service 24 as the Bristol to Weston-super-Mare route then was. Living on the Weston side of the city we had to try to board on the outskirts of the city. We waited ages for a bus with any space and usually had to stand the whole way.
‘On hire’ notices were not necessary as there was no difference between the legal lettering of BJS (i.e. Bristol City services) and Country service buses.
Country buses operating on BJS routes were known as ‘B fleet’ duties. Athough they would balance the use of City buses on country routes at bank holidays, the primary purpose was to balance up for mileage operated by BJS vehicles on parts of BJS routes outside of the city boundary. As an example, at that time, Kingswood was outside of the city but had a BJS bus service from the city centre. The mileage from the boundary to the terminus and back worked by a BJS bus would be calculated and that amount of mileage would then be worked by a country bus on a BJS route. I just find it odd that at a time when such things had to be done either on a comptometer or even manually, they worked it out to the last furlong; now we have computers, I doubt whether anyone would bother.

Peter Cook

08/09/22 – 06:24

The seating split of 961 EHW (shown) is in fact H33/25R, not H33/27R. Bristol’s LDs were 58 seats, as can be seen by the gap between the sideways facing seat and the forward facing seat where there was a luggage rack over the wheel on each side.

Michael Walker

West Riding – Bristol Lodekka – HHY 183D – 452

West Riding Automobile
1966
Bristol Lodekka FLF6G
ECW H38/32F

Proceeding on a very wet day into Leeds city centre is West Riding No. 452, Bristol FLF6G HHY 183D with ECW H38/32F bodywork, originally delivered to Bristol Omnibus as C7280 in October 1966. When, in 1967, West Riding sold out to the Transport Holding Company, which became the National Bus Company in 1969, steps were taken to withdraw the very troublesome Guy Wulfrunian fleet, and to secure this end as quickly as possible, buses were transferred from various parts of the NBC empire. This FLF6G was sent from Bristol Omnibus to West Riding in February 1970, so it had not been there very long when I took this picture in April of that year. In November 1971 it was renumbered 544 and stayed with West Riding until 1980, during which period it acquired the abysmal NBC poppy red livery. It was then sold to Top Deck Travel of Horsell Common with whom it spent several years in the USA up to 1986 before finally being consigned to the scrapyard in 1989.
I acknowledge this very informative website as the source of much of the foregoing information:– //bcv.robsly.com/lodekka.html

A complete West Riding fleet list may be found at this link

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

01/10/20 – 06:33

If it’s not my imagination, this bus appears to have hub caps on the rear wheels. If this is the case, was this a West Riding feature carried forward to this hotchpotch of foreign incomers!

Chris Hebbron

02/10/20 – 06:41

This is a good point, Chris. I have blown up the picture on my computer screen, and you are right. I hadn’t noticed the rear wheel trims, rather similar to those on London Transport RT/RTL/RM/RF types. I have looked at my own pictures of other West Riding buses – Guy Arabs and Wulfrunians, Daimler Fleetlines, AEC Reliances, and other’ imports’ brought in to ease the Wulfrunian crisis, and none have these wheel trims. Perhaps an OBP expert can enlighten us.

Roger Cox

02/10/20 – 06:42

The black fibreglass rear wheel trims were introduced as standard NBC spec. mid 1960s to all Bristol chassis. Somebody must have thought it looked smart and perhaps would aid mechanical vehicle washing without asking the operating engineers. The need to remove the covers for every tyre pressure check and wheel nut tightening led to depots under pressure (pun not intended!) leaving them off and then taking off the fixing brackets which incorporated a spring loaded catch and became a bit of a danger as they stuck out, being bolted to the axle shaft hub. Few Chief Engineers insisted on re-instatement because the newer vehicles then looked the same as the earlier deliveries and weren’t noticed! No doubt there were enthusiast depot engineers (usually at smaller and remote locations) around the country who took pride in retaining the wheel covers in good condition.

Geoff Pullin

02/10/20 – 06:44

I wonder (suppose, really) that I’m the only person who thinks the ECW Lodekkas are amongst the best looking double deckers ever to enter service.
Angular, functional, almost minimalist design which was of its age, no doubt, but which still looks perfect for the job it was designed to do.
Or is it my age and I haven’t moved on – old buses are as much a part of me in the same way I still look at TV actresses from that era and think that Jan Francis, Paula Wilcox, Felicity Kendall etc, etc haven’t really been improved upon 50 years later??

Stuart C

03/10/20 – 06:33

No Stuart C, you’re not the only one who considers the Lodekka to have been among the best looking double deckers. I must admit to a slight preference for the rear entrance variety, with their more raked fronts. Having been a conductor for a brief period, I also appreciated the extra space on the platform – on an FLF, I always seemed to be in the way!

Nigel Frampton

03/10/20 – 06:34

It’s nice that these vehicles arrived in time to wear the traditional West Riding livery and fleetname, if only for a couple of years. As Roger says, the adoption of NBC poppy red was regrettable and something of a mystery when every other NBC fleet for miles around was also red, the nearest fleet to opt for green was perhaps East Midland, a considerable distance away.
It’s also good to see that WR went to the trouble of having non-standard destination blinds made to fit the aperture which was nothing like their own standard display. Dare I say, some may have been content to simply show the word ‘Service’.

Chris Barker

03/10/20 – 10:26

This photo also illustrates how the cream glazing strip that ECW used for a few years made the destination aperture look smaller. In this case it looks as if the already small lettering is too big, yet with black glazing strip it would look fine!
If I remember rightly, the cream rubber coincided with complaints that the older green leathercloth interior side panels and green criss-cross Formica on seat backs looked a bit dull. It always looked to me that the response was that of an engineer looking through the pattern books (and certainly not an interior designer) – and choosing golden leaves cream Formica instead.
The radiator cap also looks to be painted red. That was most probably part of the necessary operation in those days of using antifreeze only during the winter and the cap would have been painted red (or a different colour each year) for drivers to know that it needed topping up with antifreeze mix and not water. Happy days!
Did anyone else feel vulnerable sitting at the back downstairs of an FLF? I always avoided those seats!

Geoff Pullin

08/10/20 – 06:50

Chris. This isn’t the “traditional” West Riding livery – it is Tilling green which West Riding adopted after it sold out to the THC, the traditional West Riding green was a shade lighter/brighter. I understand that the decision of West Riding to adopt NBC poppy red was driven by the Regional Director who wanted an “all red” Region; I suspect that the West Riding Group GM, Fred Dark, who had come from Yorkshire, didn’t put up too much resistance given that if West Riding had adopted leaf green then Yorkshire would probably have had to do the same under NBC’s rationalist policies.

Philip Rushworth

09/10/20 – 16:13

Presumably this bus, being quite new on its transfer to West Riding, simply retained its Bristol Omnibus Tilling Green.

Roger Cox

10/10/20 – 06:56

As I understand it, West Riding adopted NBC red because the regional management wanted an “all-red” area as Philip says, but that wasn’t universal across all areas of NBC. In the south, Western National used green, but Devon General (which was by then under common management with WN) used red. A similar situation applied to Provincial (green) which was managed by Hants & Dorset (red); and Cheltenham (red) was a subsidiary of Bristol OC (green).

Nigel Frampton

21/10/20 – 06:46

West Riding were a partially red fleet for many years as the former tram routes were run with red vehicles West Riding had actually begun to change from their traditional green to Tilling green before the Lodekkas began to arrive.
On the subject of the use of NBC red there is an apocryphal story that Yorkshire Woollen and West Riding tossed a coin and West Riding lost!

Chris Hough

14/11/20 – 07:38

I am coming to this a bit late, but I have been very interested to read all the comments in the string above. I have not worked on buses, as Nigel Frampton has, but purely from a user point of view, I loved the Bristol Lodekkas. When I was a boy in York I would try to get my mother to take us home from Exhibition Square, where the routes 2, 8 and 12 home were all Lodekkas, rather than from Stonebow (mostly VRs – which I also am now very fond of).
I read a very good book about the Routemaster, in which the author referred to the Lodekka as a Behemoth. I think that was unfair! When I moved down to London in 1989 I enjoyed being able to step back in time to use the Routemasters, but they did seem very narrow and rickety compared with the Lodekkas.

Henry Arthurs

Bristol Omnibus – Bristol L6B – LHY 978 – C2738

Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Bristol Omnibus
1949
Bristol L6B
ECW B33D

This photo was on the “Do you Know” page, but thanks to Spencer for the information that led to this article.
Here we have two Bristol Single deckers from two different operators for sale at W Norths Limited, Sherburn-in-Elmet a dealer near York and the photo was taken in March 1966.
The one on the right is as the above specification, the interesting thing about this bus is the dual doors one at the front and one at the rear. I presume the bus had been converted to one man operation and the policy was you got on at the front and off at the rear. Looking at the doors though they appear to be manually operated so last on or off had to close the door. I bet there has been a fair bit of “tutting” done on this bus in its lifetime due to people not closing the doors. If I am incorrect with my presumption please correct me by leaving a comment.
The one on the left is a Western National Omnibus 1951 Bristol LWL6B with an ECW C37F body registration LTA 863 fleet no 1314. A full fronted coach, but there was no need rushing to get on the bus first so you sit at the front next to the driver, no seat, just engine and wheel arch.
By the way, both of these buses were bought from the dealer, the one on the right went to contractor in Otley Yorkshire as a staff bus, not sure how long for though. The one on the left went on to Jordan Motor Services Limited, Blaenavon and did a further four years service before being scrapped in 1970.

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen at this link.

Yes this coach along with 9 others of this type were later owned by Jordans Blaenavon the last of these were I believe all were scrapped by 1971 the others came from Bristol Greyhound.

Tony

The twin door ECW bodied L types were unique to Bristol City services. They were always conductor operated. The front door was (after the first few years at least), automatic and operated by the driver. {As a schoolboy I used to always get off at the front just to be annoying – a lot of the drivers would forget to open the door.} In about 1958 there was a major re-organisation of services in Bristol which resulted in almost all becoming double deck operated and all of these L types were taken off. The 1947 series (JHT registrations) were disposed of. The LHY and MHW registered batches were exchanged for 35 seat rear door country fleet ones. Some were converted to one man operation with the rear door removed. A few, including the one in the picture, continued to operate in the country area as twin door buses.

Peter Cook

08/08/12 – 07:17

Having just been looking at this picture again, and having been doing CPC part of last week to keep my PCV license up, I have just realised that it would actually be illegal to operate the dual door L type without a conductor.

Peter Cook

17/12/14 – 05:38

I also travelled on B33D L types to games afternoons when at school. They ran, I think, service 145 from Horsefair which started off up St Michael’s Hill – quite exciting!
Previous comment is right. The redundant City vehicles were swapped for single door country buses and the company then converted the two door versions quite easily into one man operated, by extending the cab with a diagonal window across the engine bay, using the existing (slow) power sliding door and panelling in the rear door and upseating to 35. Like many operators one man operation took many Tilling operators by surprise!

Geoff Pullin

20/12/14 – 06:30

I don’t remember the 145 as a single deck route as my regular journeys to school in central Bristol began in 1958. The Ls were used on service 17 Temple Meads – Clifton, 139 Stapleton and 239 Ashton Vale (these two having low bridges and later combined as the 19).

Geoff Kerr

25/08/19 – 07:29

I have a print of the above photo and it is endorsed copyright Trevor Hartley and is dated 12 APR 1966.
Hope this helps to solve the photographer ‘unknown’ part of the description.

Ian Mawson

27/08/19 – 05:23

I can confirm that I took this photo at Norths on 12 April 1966. I am delighted that it provides interest and pleasure 50+ years on.

Trevor Hartley

Bristol Tramways – Bristol L6B – NAE 3 – 2467

Bristol Tramways
1950
Bristol L6B
ECW C31F

Whilst there are plenty of Bristols on the site, I don’t think I’ve seen this one represented so far. This exposed-rad Bristol L6B was shot at the Bristol Waterfront Running Day in 2011. New to Bristol Tramways in 1950, so sixty-one years old in this picture and looking well!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

27/06/13 – 08:56

Nice view, Les! What I find especially interesting is the combination of the usual Tilling green and cream livery with the greyhound logo. In my experience, the logo was accompanied by a red and cream . . .

Pete Davies

01/07/13 – 06:50

Greyhound coaches were cream and green during my youth in Bristol. The first to appear in cream and red were some 1963/4 Bristol RELHs and the new livery was then applied to older coaches but, by then, the three L6Bs had been withdrawn.

Geoff Kerr

01/07/13 – 09:17

The superb ECW interiors of these vehicles were glorious. Whether in red or green “Tilling group” fleets the interior scheme was, I believe, light green with “marble effect” panelling. Flooring and ceiling linings were also green and the seating moquette delightful. I’ve had many a wonderful journey from Leeds to London on West Yorkshire ones – nine hours and three refreshment breaks, and every mile an acoustic and comfort joy. Somewhere I have a very poor box camera picture of such a vehicle during a break on one of my many trips.

Chris Youhill

02/07/13 – 09:00

Further to Chris Youhill’s enthusing about these L6B coaches, particularly the West Yorkshire ones, I thought I would add a picture of the interior which he was describing. I think that the interior panelling colour was called eau de nil and even the lino flooring had a green marble effect colour. The interior shot and the rear view are from official ECW stock.

I have also added the highly cropped photo because it was the first bus photo I ever took – very predictable! It’s a pity that the old box Brownie didn’t give a satisfactory end result. This would have been about 1960/61, when the L6Bs were painted with large areas of red as they were demoted.

David Rhodes

03/07/13 – 07:02

Brilliant photos, David R. At this stage, the vestiges of Art Deco were still around, notably, in this case, with the sunrise backs to the seat.
And those enormous side windows, something which I’d never seen before in a coach of this era.
Very interesting – thx.

Chris Hebbron

03/07/13 – 15:18

…..but like contemporary Plaxtons, Chris, they are divided in the middle by a bright metal strip.

David Oldfield

18/07/13 – 07:43

The ‘Hants & Dorset’ open-toppers used on the journeys to Poole & Sandbanks in the 1960s had the cream & green livery almost identical to the Bristol coach pictured. It looked nice when clean, but did not wear well in wet weather.

Grahame Arnold

17/12/14 – 05:32

There was a period during my time at school in Bristol (1953-9) when BT&CC / BOC coaches had black trim instead of green and then afterwards went to Maroon!

Geoff Pullin

31/07/16 – 07:12

The Greyhound L6B coach was delivered with green trim, as were many of Bristol’s coaches, before having a brief flutter with black, then maroon and finally red. When new and in green the Greyhound in Wheel logo would NOT have been carried by NAE 3 (or NAE 1 and 2), but was by subsequent coaches. I have had it fitted to NAE 3 to confirm it’s previous identity – and I believe that it does not look out of place!

M Walker

03/08/16 – 14:31

I am surprised that MW says that NAE 1-3 did not have a metal Greyhound logo from new, but I cannot remember accurately back to those days! I imagine, with my experience of getting ECW to do anything out of the ordinary, that the logos would have been attached at Lawrence Hill upon delivery and pre-service inspection, together with fleet number transfers (later plates) – that was the way Tilling operators usually coped! I attach a photo of wider and longer LWL6B coach (NHY946 by then 2066) in maroon trim and the elegant Bristol Greyhound script at Bath bus station arrivals platform on September 15, 1963. I thought it looked very elegant and cosy in those days despite the body style being very dated compared to the current LS coaches already in service.

Geoff Pullin

30/07/17 – 06:51

My recollection agrees with Mike Walkers. My father a Bristolian who would have been around 20 when the Greyhound name disappeared would mention Greyhound occasionally. It was clearly regarded as a quality service compared to Tramways. In Bristol of the late 1950’s BT&CC were a monopoly as far as bus and express services were concerned. Excursions and tours were a different matter where there were a number of competing operators the main one being Wessex whose day or part day excursion program was probably three times the size of Tramways. My parents were regular Wessex customers and, as I wanted to try out one of the Bristol coaches, it took quite a bit of persuasion from a 7 or 8 year old to get them on to a BT&CC excursion – we went to Slimbridge I recall. Tramway’s coaches were the reverse of the bus livery; cream with green relief instead of green with cream relief. Around about 1960 or 1961, BOC as they then were, swapped the green in the coach livery for maroon and then a few years later for red. At the same time as the change in colour, the fleetname Bristol Greyhound and the motif were added. At the same time, or very close to it, the coach fleet, which had fleet numbers mixed indiscriminately with single deck buses, were renumbered in their series which made it much easier to remember which were coaches and which were buses. I am fairly sure that the idea of the colour change and resurrection of the Greyhound name was to create a distinction between Bristol’s coaches and the bus services.

Peter Cook

Bristol Omnibus – Bristol K5G – FAE 51 – W85

Bristol Omnibus
1939
Bristol K5G
ECW H30/26R

I can’t recall seeing the rounded lines of the pre-war ECW highbridge double decker in OBP, so thought you might like to see FAE 51 in July 1961. The vehicle was new (blue livery?) to Bristol Tramways & Carriage Co Ltd in 1939 as C3132, survived the war and by this time had been moved to the driver training fleet as W85. It is resting in what I recall as the small coach depot in a street (probably demolished years ago) east of the main road up Old Market and near Lawrence Hill. It never seemed to be manned and occasionally had several coaches parked up.
The ECW body looked rather nicer than the BBW (Brislington Body Works) version which looked a bit sterner! See the vehicle on the left at this link.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Geoff Pullin

19/06/17 – 07:21

The depot near Old Market Geoff refers to was called West Street. Although I grew up in Bristol and was at school there in 1961, unfortunately I’ve no recollection of it! I visited all the other depots in the city but this one escaped my notice.
I was told that West Street was a former Greyhound coach depot, actually in Trinity Street. Coaches moved from there to Lawrence Hill in the 1950s, after which it was used for coach parking during the winter season, but I don’t know when it closed completely.
A nice reminder of the pre-war ECW bodied K5Gs, the last of which survived in passenger service in Bristol until 1959.

Geoff Kerr

20/06/17 – 07:25

In 1935, a batch of nine Leyland TD5, with almost identical bodies were delivered to Tyneside. They were JR 8618/8626, and numbered TT18/22.
However, some controversy exist as to who actually built them. The design is unquestionably ECW, but some accounts have them being built “presumably subcontract or under licence” by Charles H Roe.

Ronnie Hoye

20/06/17 – 07:26

Geoff
Thanks for that further information, which allowed me to find this link: https://books.google.co.uk/books

Geoff Pullin

20/06/17 – 07:29

I have some copies of PSV Circle BOC allocations of 1958 (either side of the big City services reorganisation) which record the depot as Trinity Street rather than West Street. The date of closure is given as 24 October 1958. Prior to the reorganisation it is noted as an overnight garage for coaches and store for delicensed vehicles. It does not appear to have had its own allocation at that point in time. Subsequent to the change PSVC records that all Bristol based coaches were allocated to Lawrence Hill. At that time coach fleet numbers were mixed in with the single deck fleet number series so without going through the allocation vehicle by vehicle it is not easy to see if any were allocated anywhere else prior to the change.

Peter Cook

21/06/17 – 07:22

According to Mike Walker and the late Geoff Bruce, in “Greyhound Motors” published by the Bristol Vintage Bus Group, “the Trinity Road” coach garage was sold to the British Railways Board in 1961 for use as a road vehicle workshop, and were still standing in the early 21st century, still in use, as a car repair and exhaust centre in 2003. 96 West Street was the office address in the early years, but those premises were sold in the early 1930s. The Trinity Street premises virtually backed onto the West Street site – and from a 2014 Google image look to be in use as a carpet warehouse.

Peter Delaney

Bristol Tramways – Bristol LS – NHU 2 – 2800

Bristol Tramways & Carriage Company Limited
1950
Bristol LSX5G
ECW B42D

This Bristol LSX5G with chassis number LSX.001 was new to Bristol Tramways in 1950 and has an Eastern Coachworks B42D body numbered 4978. It was, as its chassis number suggests, a prototype. Seen here at the Bristol Waterfront Running Day 22/05/2011.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

07/06/15 – 10:12

Nice, Les! Another for me to delete from my list of possible future submissions . . .

Pete Davies

08/06/15 – 07:25

This image is scanned from my original print so not great, however it is a piece of history. The two prototypes were together for the first time in 54 years here at Showbus 2005. The red one is Eastern Counties LL744 and registered MAH 744 with chassis number LSX002 and Eastern Coachworks B42F body 4255. Not a great shot but I thought it worth sharing.

Les Dickinson

08/06/15 – 16:10

I hadn’t realised until I saw the LS at this angle just how American are the lines of this bus enhanced perhaps by the rear doors.

Orla Nutting

09/06/15 – 06:03

Orla, just seen this and my thoughts were exactly the same. They would not looked out of place in any US city in the 50s and 60s.

Phil Blinkhorn

10/06/15 – 06:41

You can find the same in cars of that era. It’s really the front end with the decorative bits and anti-glare windscreen that does it- but what is the central light for? A foglight was at a lower level, usually nearside, illuminating the kerb. This is higher on (2) and in the middle?

Joe

10/06/15 – 08:24

I think that it was a fashionable idiosyncrasy at the time. Think of contemporary cars like the then Rover 75 and Austin A90 Atlantic. They never really caught on and eventually were phased out by Rover and the A90, though very eye catching, didn’t appeal to either the UK or American market (where the 1948 Tucker ‘car of the future’ was similarly equipped). Similarly in France the early ’50’s Panhard Dyna had a central oblong foglight in the bumper but these too were designed out on later models (pretty impractical anyway given French street parking practices!).

Orla Nutting

21/06/15 – 05:52

Nice photos Les, and its lovely to see the two LS prototypes together again as you say. They are both interesting vehicles in their own right. The ‘Bristol Bristol’ (LSX001) was originally powered by an experimental horizontal version of the Bristol AVW engine – this experimental power unit being designated XWA, with the production version becoming the LSW. A Gardner 5HLW engine was fitted in 1953, along with 8ft wide axles in lieu of the original 7ft-6″ ones, and the bus was converted to single-door layout in 1956. (It’s great to see that LSX001 has been restored to original B42D configuration, which must have involved a fair bit of time, effort and money to say the least, and it is a credit to everyone concerned).
Relating to the Eastern Counties Bristol (LSX002), this vehicle was fitted with a Gardner 4HLW engine from new. Generally LS vehicles were powered by either Bristol LSW, or Gardner 5HLW/6HLW engines, but ECOC did take delivery of further LS4Gs, but I believe this was a small batch of five vehicles. Both prototypes had aluminium alloy underframes, to reduce weight, but production LS underframes were of pressed steel, which was easier to weld and was less expensive. Despite the use of a steel underframe however, the LS in bus form with Gardner 5HLW engine tipped the scales at around 6.25 tons, which is very creditable. Economy was also good, with Southern and Western National’s LS5G buses apparently averaging 15mpg on country services – aided no doubt by 5-speed overdrive gearboxes.

Brendan Smith

07/06/16 – 18:46

The memory is probably going, but I think I recall Bristol LS coaches prior to the introduction of the MW. These had deeper windscreens with rounded corners and I always thought them to be a prettier body. I’m remembering back to Southampton coach station in the 1960’s(that milk machine had the best strawberry milk on the South Coast!)and I am sure that Royal Blue, Southern National & possibly Hants & Dorset examples used to visit there. Do we have any photos?

David field

08/06/16 – 06:01

The handsome early style of ECW coach body for the Bristol LS that David describes appeared in 1952. Royal Blue had a batch of fourteen of this type delivered in that year with C41F bodywork (though the LS was an integral vehicle, of course). They were all reseated to C39F in 1960. Here is LTA 867, fleet number 1279, leaving Victoria Coach Station for Bournemouth in the summer of 1961.

Roger Cox

09/06/16 – 06:47

Roger, would this particular version of the LS coach body be the one where the front windscreens wound down into the dash panel? There doesn’t appear to be any other method of opening and I believe it was still a requirement at the time that the drivers windscreen, at least, should have the capability. I imagine it wouldn’t be possible to wind them down to a point where the wipers could become trapped on the inside of the glass!

Chris Barker

09/06/16 – 16:52

Yes, the LS coach windscreens do wind down into the dash panel. Those who admire this style of Royal Blue coachwork may like to note that one of this style is expected on the 2016 Royal Blue run – details at //www.tvagwot.org.uk/event-royalblue.htm.
That style only applied to the 1952 built LS coaches – those built from 1953 onwards having the windscreens made of two flat sections, the upper one being hinged at the top, in the same way as the first style of MW coach body.

Peter Delaney

09/06/16 – 16:53

Yes windows wind part way down. One of the batch took part in this years London-Brighton run MOD 973 I think.

Roger Burdett

10/06/16 – 05:37

They must have been the biggest panes of glass ever to have been wound down (and up) – pretty heavy, I would guess.
And one of the very few (perhaps only) winding windows to have windscreen wipers, too.

petras409

18/09/19 – 06:58

Saw NHU 2 heading west along the A38 at South Brent this morning. It followed me up the slip road at Wrangaton before turning off towards Kingsbridge. As she passed me on the slip road she looked absolutely superb and in really good mechanical condition a tribute to her owners.

Thomas Bowden

29/07/22 – 06:05

I have just found your interesting site. Such wonderful memories of the 1970’s and being a bus ‘spotter’ living in Hedingham & District land.
Referring to NHU 2, I remember seeing it in Cirencester in the late 1970’s and photographing it in a very sorry state, along with other old Bristol buses. Many, many other photos I have, but all taken with a Zenith E, and none digitalised.
Bristol LS 476 BEV was a favourite school bus, to me it has a sublime engine note, quite different from the other LS’s and MW’s. I can recall it quite clearly even now.
Thank you for the pictures.

Stephen Gifford

30/07/22 – 05:58

Stephen, 476 BEV was delivered to Eastern National as its N0.400 in January 1955, and from information on Gerry Tormey’s wonderful Bristol Vehicles website, it was converted to Commer TS3 two-stroke Diesel engine. Presumably this was carried out by ENOC, although I’m happy to be corrected on this. 400 was converted to Gardner 5HLW engine in April 1960, renumbered 1220 in August 1964, and withdrawn by ENOC in January 1966, passing to Hedingham & District (D R MacGregor) the following month. H&D withdrew 476BEV in March 1973, and it passed to Paul Sykes (dealer) the same month, presumably for scrap.
I’m quite envious of you riding on a TS3-engined LS bus Stephen, as it must have sounded gorgeous, although perhaps a bit raucous (or should that be racy?) compared to the usual 5-pot Gardner.

Brendan Smith

31/07/22 – 08:47

Can’t find any TS3 Commer engine’d buses/coaches, but there are several videos of such lorries, if you want to hear that fruity sound again!

Chris Hebbron

01/08/22 – 08:18

Thank you Brendan and Chris for your follow up information. I always had a feeling there was something special about 476 BEV.
I have many memories of Eastern National Halstead and Braintree depots in the 60’s and 70’s and travelling to ‘exotic’ locations like Colchester and Southend with my bus spotting friend.
It is so interesting to find your site.

Stephen Gifford

Bristol Omnibus – Bristol LS – UHT 494 – 2884

Bristol Omnibus
1955
Bristol LSA
ECW B45F

Here we have one of the two Bristol LS that operated with other than a Gardner engine. Bristol Omnibus Bristol LSA registration UHT 494 fleet number 2884 seen on October 6, 1962 lasted in service until 1968 with an AEC horizontal engine. Much of its in-service time was marked by the engine stalling as drivers who were used to Gardner power were caught unaware of the lower low speed torque!
The other non-Gardner was registration UHT 493 fleet number 2883 a Bristol LSTS3 which had a Rootes TS3 diesel which was not particularly reliable and was soon back to a Gardner 5HLW as was the removal of its rear two doors.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Geoff Pullin

08/02/16 – 10:58

These two LS were in effect test beds for the engine manufacturers. No. 2884 is seen here on the last day of Clevedon town service 25D, which was then incorporated into the main Bristol – Clevedon 25/25A service. It carries the BRISTOL block lettering introduced in the early 1960s.

Geoff Kerr

09/02/16 – 08:30

My word, we learn something new every day on this wonderful Forum. I had no idea till now that any Bristol LSs had ever been powered by such unfamiliar units, even experimentally!!

Chris Youhill

09/02/16 – 09:42

This is a surprise to me, too, Chris. Were these engines seriously considered as options for production machines, I wonder? Certainly, the limited output of Gardner units set against the high demand placed constraints upon the sales of several psv and lorry manufacturers. Bristol brought out its own engines to ease the situation, though the BVW doesn’t seem to have been produced in horizontal form. I can see that the AEC unit might have been a realistic option – when running properly it was a good performer – but the wet liner problems might have militated against its adoption in the LS. What engine was it – an AH410 or a 470? I think that Leyland was very reluctant to let anyone else have its engines at that time. I doubt that the TS3 two stroke would have been entirely suitable for the stop/start nature of bus work. Quite apart from the noise, the revs had to be kept high for it to work properly.

Roger Cox

09/02/16 – 15:16

Most LSs had either a Gardner 5HLW (saloons) or Gardner 6HLW (coaches), or the Bristol 6 cylinder horizontal version of the AVW engine. According to Alan Townsin, the non-standard AEC engine was a 410, as used in some Reliances of the period, and one of the prototypes had a Gardner 4LW, as well as the TS3 engined example.
There was a horizontal version of the BVW engine – the BHW. And it was an example – first fitted in an MW used by the BCV works, it was later put into one of the RELH prototypes. The MW later had a Gardner 6HLW engine fitted before delivery to Red and White as a saloon, the RELH gained a Gardner 6HLX before entering service with West Yorkshire Road Car.

Peter Delaney

10/02/16 – 06:20

Don’t forget that there were several Bristol Ks and Ls with AEC engines, so it would not have been unreasonable to offer that manufacturer’s engines in the successor models.

Nigel Frampton

10/02/16 – 06:21

Well, this is even more interesting than many others which have delighted us on this forum! Thanks for submitting this, Geoff.
I was aware of some Bristol buses with upright engines having AEC products where one might normally expect a Bristol or Gardner power unit, but horizontal ones? And a COMMER?
You’ll have to excuse me – I must find a darkened room!

Pete Davies

10/02/16 – 06:21

Eastern Counties received the second prototype LS, MAH 744, which was powered by a 4HLW engine. Ever economically motivated, ECOC had taken a number of L4G saloons from the late 1930s, and in December 1952, took a couple of production dual purpose LS saloons with the 4HLW engine. These were use initially on express and excursion duties, though the performance must surely have been less than sparkling. Three more appeared in the fleet in May 1953, after which the 5HLW became the chosen Gardner powerplant for subsequent LS deliveries. The LS4G was not delivered to any other Tilling Group company. A number of BET companies specified the AH 410 engine for early AEC Reliance deliveries. The first Reliances bought by Aldershot & District, including the Strachans Everest bodied coaches, were all powered by the AH 410. Despite its modest capacity of 6.754 litres inherited from the 1935 “6.6” A172 (indirect injection) engine from which it was developed, the 98 bhp AH 410 would deliver a creditable road performance. It is extraordinary that AEC, with its significant resources, could never cure the wet liner problems with its 410, 470 and 590 engines. The much smaller Dennis company offered wet liner engines in petrol and diesel form from the mid 1930s, and these were trouble free. I have occasionally wondered how a Dennis O6 powered LS would have performed – the East Kent Lancet UF coaches were fliers and thoroughly reliable, but the idiosyncratic ‘O’ type gearbox was far from easy to use. Perhaps an arrangement between the two might then have permitted Dennis to use the Bristol five speed synchromesh gearbox in the Lancet. End of daydream!

Roger Cox

10/02/16 – 06:22

The early years of the Bristol LS were certainly interesting. The first two prototypes had aluminium alloy underframes, although production versions were of steel construction. The first prototype (LSX001) entered service with Bristol T&CC, and had a B42D body, and a horizontal version of the Bristol AVW engine. Designated the XWA, the horizontal Bristol engine became the LSW on LS production models. The second (LSX002) was powered by a Gardner 4HLW engine, and perhaps not too surprisingly was supplied to Eastern Counties. Bristol T&CC 2883 mentioned by Geoff was built in 1953 with an unfinished bodyshell, painted grey and used by Bristol for development work. It received a Commer TS3 two-stroke Diesel engine and was given the chassis designation LSTS3. It eventually entered service in the Bristol T&CC fleet as 2883(UHT493) in 1955 to B43D specification, but was fitted with a Gardner 5HLW engine in 1956. The LS6A (2884) shown in Geoff’s photo was also built in 1953, and similarly sported a grey-painted unfinished bodyshell, again used for development work. The engine chosen was AEC’s 6.75 litre AH410 unit (as offered in AEC’s Reliance and Monocaoch models), together with an AEC 5-speed gearbox. Like 2883, 2884 entered Bristol T&CC service in 1955, in this case to B45F configuration.
Roger, I cannot think why Bristol chose the TS3 engine (aka ‘The Knocker’) as an experiment, as it was not really that popular in the wider bus world, although it did sound gorgeous, if a bit raucous, in Commer lorries. Maybe they saw potential for it powering lightweight buses such as the LS, due to the engine’s good power to weight ratio. The early TS3s developed 105bhp @ 2400rpm from only 3.26 litres, which was amazing at the time. The choice of an AEC engine and gearbox though could perhaps have been an attempt to woo London Transport. LTE had tried an early Bristol LS5G bus (Bristol T&CC 2828:PHW918 painted in Green Line livery), which must have been something of a culture shock to LT drivers used to buses with 6-cylinder engines, fluid flywheels and pre-selector gearboxes! It is perhaps not surprising that the LS5G was not popular with LT, so Bristol then fitted it with a Hobbs semi-automatic transmission. The LS5G returned to LT for around six months, but no orders followed, and on returning to Bristol 2828 was fitted with a standard Bristol gearbox. All fascinating stuff. It’s just a shame that most of us never had the opportunity of hearing the wonderous sound effects of an AH410 or TS3-engined LS, or for that matter, a semi-auto LS5G.

Brendan Smith

10/02/16 – 06:23

I am surprised to see that this bus has a “normal” destination display; Bristol Omnibus LSs (and other types) normally had a single blind showing destination, number and via points. The fairly common T-style display was adopted with the later MWs and F-series Lodekkas, although even then the display was non-standard because there were four service number tracks.

Don McKeown

10/02/16 – 09:20

The recent book by Martin Curtis and Mike Walker on BOC – The Green Years – includes details of the two LS buses 2883 and 2884 which had been used by ECW for body development and passed to the company in 1955. The former previously used as an unfinished shell had the standard company destination display fitted with the Commer engine soon replaced by a Gardner 5HLW.The latter retained its AEC engine throughout its life and was unique with the company for its “side by side” destination favoured by other NBC companies such as the adjoining Wilts and Dorset – apparently the body had been used by ECW in connection with the development of the Bristol SC which had of course a similar destination display. In 1967 it was also fitted with an MW-style grill – and lasted until 1968. There is a black and white photo of 2884 in the book seen leaving Marlborough St bus station on the 25B to Nailsea. A second depot photo by Peter Davey shows the grill fitted – most odd -by which time the destination blind had been reduced to a single line by masking tape. This is the first time I have seen a colour picture of 2884. Thanks.

Keith Newton

11/02/16 – 06:27

There is a dedicated posting for the two LS prototypes elsewhere on OBP (see link below), but I’m sure no one will mind me adding a picture here of NHU 2 taken at Duxford a few years ago.
Bristol Tramways – Bristol LS – NHU 2 – 2800

Roger Cox

13/02/16 – 05:26

I would imagine that the attraction of the Commer TS3 would be its legendary fuel economy. If they’d put it into a coach instead of a bus, it might even have worked!

Peter Williamson

14/02/16 – 05:51

The TS3 two stroke was used in coaches – Beadle and Harrington both offered coach models with this engine.

Roger Cox

19/02/16 – 05:46

There was a second LS which ran with a Rootes TS3. Eastern National
476 BEV was delivered new in 1955 as an LS5G but was soon converted by ENOC to the above, presumably as a comparative trial.
It was converted back to LS5G in 1960 and spent another six years with the company before being sold to Hedingham & District where it saw out its last few years.

Nigel Utting

03/03/16 – 15:48

So far as I was aware this chassis was coded LS6A, perhaps my original text was faulty!
What a fascinating lot more information this has stirred up. I mentioned the horizontal BVW in my article on the Bristol RE. I was unaware that it had been used in an MW before that – but I bet it wasn’t turbo-charged at that time!

This photo probably shows the test bed, a rather bedraggled looking ‘experimental’ MW taken at BCV on March 3, 1963.

The 2884 destination layout looks much nicer to me than the other standards used by BTCC & BOC: the 18 in. high single aperture and the destination above route number display. There was a nice batch of vehicles with the intermediate 12 in. high single aperture display that looked just as pleasant to me as 2884. Thanks for further information about BOC displays on my 1963 MW5G submission, but I’m sure I saw W in use when the suffix letters were first introduced!

Geoff Pullin

12/01/17 – 09:10

There is (was?) a full page explanation of the short workings in the front of the Bristol Joint Services timetable for 1965. The introduction states that ‘The number of buses which carry destination equipment capable of showing numbers and letters together is being gradually increased’ – in other words, the replacement of single piece blinds by 4-track ‘T’ indicators. Exactly why a single piece display cannot show (e.g.) 9A instead of 9 for the Ashton Gate short working passes me by I’m afraid. Surely you just print the blind with 9A on it.
The 4-tracks were a bit of overkill in some ways when you consider that the entire city fleet was being fitted with these displays when there were few workings which required them – 145A Henleaze Lake short working, the 236A extension to Brislington Trading Estate and journeys on 142,236 or 282 extended to Rodney Works, Patchway Bus Park or Shadow Factory were the only ones which actually needed all 4 tracks.

Peter Cook

Bristol Omnibus – Bristol MW5G – 936 RAE – 2577

Bristol Omnibus
1963
Bristol MW5G
ECW B45F

Typical but not typical!
On Sunday, June 28, 1964, a Bristol MW5G (typical) Wells depot bus stands at Clevedon Six Ways awaiting departure on service 157. This was the first day of operation of a new (not typical in those days!) Sunday only service to attract tourists. The service didn’t run in 1965!
The destination display was the BOC standard at the time, I think known to ECW as the Z layout. It was unique in the Tilling group for having a four track number display, adopted to cope with the addition of suffix letters became rife. In the city, L (short working) W (works service) and the route variations A, B, C and D were added to existing route numbers that could already have three digits.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Geoff Pullin

31/01/16 – 13:33

I grew up in Bristol and had never heard of this 157 service, maybe not surprising at it was so short lived.
Suffix letter W was not used for works services. F, H and J were those generally used for extensions beyond Filton to the aircraft factories or beyond Avonmouth to the smelting and chemical works. C was used for journeys on cross-city routes terminating in the central area. K was used for school services – K for Kids, we all assumed!
Bristol city services were renumbered below 100 in 1966, and at the same time Country routes were renumbered without suffix letters so four track number blinds were no longer needed.

Geoff Kerr

01/02/16 – 07:35

This picture brings back happy memories of schooldays in Wells and riding these vehicles on service 165 to Glastonbury. They were in the very smart OMO livery with more cream then.

Richard Stubbings

04/12/19 – 07:11

I have just realised that there is another ‘untypical’ aspect to this vehicle. Like 2568 – C2607, it was built with the air suspension option that became available in 1962. Eric Hardy, Chief Engineer of BOC at the time specified the air suspension option to reduce lifetime costs, including an easier life for the bodywork. BOC was the only company to specify the option for stage vehicles and I heard him complain bitterly when BCV deleted the option for the last sanctions of MWs. It was all very sad that the first MWs delivered on leaf springs to the company after the deletion of the option (2137) had dual purpose bodywork and coach livery!
Pondering this anomaly, I wonder if the last batch of leaf-sprung MWs were shoe-horned into production a bit quick to fill a gap because the RE low frame chassis was running late. The outstanding orders for MWs for some companies (eg ECOC) were satisfied with air sprung – no option -RESLs!

Geoff Pullin

City of Gloucester/Western Travel – Bristol RELH6L – WHW 374H – Bristol 2062

Copyright Rob McCaffery

City of Gloucester/Western Travel
1969
Bristol RELH6L
ECW DP49F

Gloucester’s first public transport was horse trams, in 1887, then electric trams in 1904, immediately becoming municipal. Livery was crimson lake and cream, becoming battleship grey during WWI and remaining so until closure in early 1933. Interestingly, during WWI, track was ripped up from little-used sections and used to extend an existing route to Brockworth Airfield. A tram was then converted to pull railway trucks some 6 miles through the streets! Good job the route was virtually flat!
Replacement bus services started in 1929, using a succession of Vulcan Duchesses and Thorneycroft BC’s (all, bar four, with normal control) , with Gloucester Railway & Carriage Works bodywork, the original tram livery being reinstated. Later on, four of the oldest Thorneycroft vehicles were, oddly, sent all the way to C H Roe in Leeds to have their entrances moved to the rear of the vehicles!
On 12th June 1936, in a novel move, Gloucester Corporation leased their services to Bristol Tramways and Carriage Company Ltd. All vehicles in the Corporation fleet were officially transferred to the Bristol company from this date, although the actual transfer had already taken place in the April.
As part of the agreement, the former 35 Gloucester Corporation vehicles did, however, continue to carry Gloucester on the side and bear the city’s coat of arms, a fitting reminder of the days of Gloucester Corporation Transport. In fact, the coat of arms continued on the agreed number of buses, right through nationalisation with the National Bus ‘N/Shadow Arrow’ logo, too, and on until Stagecoach West took over Western Travel’s empire in Gloucester, Cheltenham and Swindon, in 1993.
Western Travel painted their buses predominately in blue, which brought some colour after the dreary red and greens which hitherto had covered the country and, in the early transitional days, still also bore the double ‘N’ Arrow. They inherited and continued to run Express services, some of which were seasonal, to such places as Bath, to Weston-s-Mare and to Coventry (via Stratford on Avon). They also ran a really long-distance one to Weymouth and it is on the seafront there where we see Bristol 2062 (WHW 374H), a 1969 dual-purpose Bristol RELH6L/ECW DP49F body in City of Gloucester dual vehicle colours at Weymouth Rally – June 2011. This example was never in dual-purpose colours, but sister-vehicles were and it has only just been painted in this livery, for a few months, as a tribute to Gloucester public transport. Note the Gloucester Coat of Arms as well as the shadow ‘N’ logo.
I travelled on one of the type to Coventry on one occasion and found them very good for DP vehicles. Certainly better than my going to Weston-s-Mare on one occasion on a Leyland Olympian – 45mph for 70-odd miles on the M5, but with a good view from the top deck when we finally glimpsed the sea! By this time, these services were on borrowed time, what with vehicle and driver shortages; a shame really, for, in my experience, they were always well supported.

Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron
Photograph by kind permission of Rob McCaffery

04/09/11 – 07:45

As a coach enthusiast, after the ZF Reliance, the RELH is my favourite vehicle and whilst I have no problem whatsoever with the Gardner engine my preference is for the RELH6L. Having driven both, this is not purely an “enthusiast” thing.
The featured vehicle had DP seating but many similar vehicles elsewhere had the very comfortable full coach seating, making them suitable for National Express – if not touring. As a student, I travelled many happy miles on such East Midland vehicles (both Gardner and Leyland powered) as well as the North Western and Ribble RELH6Ls with MkII (my designation) coach body. My first long distance REL6G “cruise” however was by West Yorkshire on Yorkshire Services from Sheffield to London.
In old age, I now find myself with both musical and PSV connections in Gloucester.

David Oldfield

08/10/11 – 05:46

Western Travel each depot had its own colour, with yellow flash
Cheltenham red.
Stroud green.
Swindon red.
Gloucester blue.
Coaches, as per depot.
Service trucks yellow.
Vans as per depot.

Mike

29/04/12 – 07:56

The RELH with ECW coachwork was really solid, quiet and comfortable vehicle to ride on but the early models with crash gearboxes combined with it’s rear engine took some time and practice to master rewarding when you got the knack. The ECW body had one major fault which became all too obvious the first time you had one on a busy express run with a load of luggage and it rained, there was a small luggage locker behind the engine with the door in the usual position at the rear when that became full the underfloor lockers had to be used the doors to which were quite shallow but heavy and fitted at the lowest part of the side panels which being within the wheelbase meant they collected all sorts of muck and water in the aforementioned rain which made opening them in those conditions unpleasant to say the least. The overall low build of these vehicles meant that even looking into the lockers let alone putting in or removing heavy suitcases was not good for your back muscles. The later Plaxton bodied had higher mounted and lighter locker doors which made them much easier to use and less dirty and painful. The later semi-automatic gearbox made them much more pleasant to drive, I too preferred the Leyland engined version.

Diesel Dave

Bristol Omnibus1957Bristol Lodekka LDL6GECW H37/33RD

Bristol Omnibus1959Bristol Lodekka LD6GECW H33/27R

West Riding Automobile1966Bristol Lodekka FLF6GECW H38/32F

Bristol Omnibus1949Bristol L6BECW B33D

Bristol Tramways1950Bristol L6BECW C31F

Bristol Omnibus1939Bristol K5GECW H30/26R

Bristol Tramways & Carriage Company Limited1950Bristol LSX5GECW B42D

Bristol Omnibus1955Bristol LSAECW B45F

Bristol Omnibus1963Bristol MW5GECW B45F

City of Gloucester/Western Travel1969Bristol RELH6LECW DP49F

Bristol Omnibus
1957
Bristol Lodekka LDL6G
ECW H37/33RD

Bristol Omnibus
1959
Bristol Lodekka LD6G
ECW H33/27R

West Riding Automobile
1966
Bristol Lodekka FLF6G
ECW H38/32F

Bristol Omnibus
1949
Bristol L6B
ECW B33D

Bristol Tramways
1950
Bristol L6B
ECW C31F

Bristol Omnibus
1939
Bristol K5G
ECW H30/26R

Bristol Tramways & Carriage Company Limited
1950
Bristol LSX5G
ECW B42D

Bristol Omnibus
1955
Bristol LSA
ECW B45F

Bristol Omnibus
1963
Bristol MW5G
ECW B45F

City of Gloucester/Western Travel
1969
Bristol RELH6L
ECW DP49F