Tag: Burlingham

Safeguard – AEC Reliance – 200 APB

Safeguard - AEC Reliance - 200 APB

Safeguard Coaches (Guildford)
1956
AEC Reliance MU3RV
Burlingham B44F

Safeguard of Guildford runs buses and coaches in the area and 200 APB is preserved by the operator, attending rallies at regular intervals. It is an AEC Reliance MU3RV with Burlingham B44F body, complete with the trademark “Seagull” motif. The first view shows her at Wisley on 4 April 2004

Safeguard - AEC Reliance - 200 APB

While the second view – taken on 10 April 2011, at Dunsfold – shows the fleetname.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

16/05/16 – 06:50

I have always admired this style of Burlingham saloon body, and it is good to see this vehicle in such fine fettle. I recall seeing it around quite often in Guildford on my visits to the town in the 1950s and 1960s. Safeguard sold this bus surprisingly early in its life in 1962 to the South Petherton, Somerset firm of Safeway, similarly named and similarly liveried, where it stayed until 1982. It then passed into the hands of a preservation group and spent a period with the Quantock heritage fleet, Taunton, before returning to Safeguard ownership. OBP has an item on a Safeway coach submitted by Ken Jones, together with an informative link that includes pictures of this Reliance; see Safeway Coaches – Dennis Lancet – ASV 900.

Roger Cox

16/05/16 – 10:02

Five weeks ago, I went to Ottershaw, Surrey, for a one hour meeting. At the end, I had a nose bleed, heamorrhage-style! I spent five days in Guildford Royal Hospital and watched Safeguard buses passing by every 15 mins. Seeing this activity and looking at their website, it was a great surprise that this long-lasting firm is still around and even blooming, it would seem. My memories of them date from the early 1960’s, when I worked by Guildford rail station. There is a photo of 200 APB on their website, decked out with wedding ribbon.

Chris Hebbron

16/05/16 – 17:56

Safeguard had a reputation for keeping vehicles for a relatively short time, always having a modern fleet, certainly when I knew them in the seventies and eighties.A well run and highly regarded company, still with a decent livery today.

David Wragg

16/05/16 – 17:57

Sorry to learn of your recent stay in hospital, Chris H. My father had three or four similar instances (involving Southampton General) Take care, young Sir!

Pete Davies

16/05/16 – 17:57

There is a fair bit of Safeguard News, some of it contemporary but also some historic on the loacl on-line newspaper. //www.guildford-dragon.com/?s=safeguard&x=5&y=8

John Lomas

17/05/16 – 06:56

Oh dear Chris, sorry to hear that Ottershaw had such a bad effect on you. It doesn’t happen to everyone though, i’ve lived there for 30 years without any problems!
Also surprised that you went to the Royal Surrey, given that St Peter’s Hospital is so close.

Grahame Arnold

19/05/16 – 06:08

Thx Pete/Grahame for your commiserations! St. Peter’s put a bung up my nose to stop the bleeding, but the Royal had an ENT Dept to cauterise etc.
I’ve been visiting Ottershaw since the 1950’s and the journey from Portsmouth, by train, was always worthwhile for a ride on the A & D Dennis Lance K3’s with their ‘Supertop’ 5-speed gearboxes, which enabled them to fairly scoot along from Woking to Botley’s Park! Thankfully, one’s been preserved.

Chris Hebbron

Premier Travel – AEC Reliance – 85 UME – 72

Premier Travel - AEC Reliance - 85 UME - 72

Premier Travel (Cambridge)
1959
AEC Reliance 2MU3RV
Burlingham Seagull C41F

The final Mk. VII incarnation of the classic Burlingham Seagull coach body is generally considered by most to be something of a travesty, compared to the earlier versions. With its squared off side panel and slight nod towards tail fins – becoming popular at the time on cars – and longer and fewer side windows attempting to vie with Plaxton’s first Panoramas, it just didn’t work and soon afterwards a complete redesign resulted in the introduction of the Seagull 70 which seemed to some degree to be inspired by the ‘new classic’ – the Harrington Cavalier.
85 UME had been new to Valliant of London W5 in 1959 but had later passed with others to Premier Travel, along with similar examples from Yelloway, joining a further one which Premier had bought new and resulting in probably the largest number of Mk. VII’s in any one fleet.
It is seen here on an enthusiasts’ tour in 1971.

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer

30/06/16 – 06:38

John, I agree absolutely with your comments about this final version of the classic Seagull design but strangely the angle of the photograph in your posting makes this one look really rather nice. I’m intrigued though, about those dividing strips in the side windows, it seems very odd to have panoramic windows and then divide them into smaller panes.

Chris Barker

30/06/16 – 08:05

The Seagull never seemed to look right without the centre sliding door. It was fundamental to the original design and the later front entrance versions always seemed to me to be something of a ‘lash-up’.

Philip Halstead

01/07/16 – 06:14

I’ve never seen a picture of this one when it was new, but I suspect that the window dividers were a later addition. Quite a few of the Seagull Mk VII bodies needed remedial work as Burlingham’s designers had been rather optimistic about the load-bearing strength of the original window pillars! As far as I know this was never a problem with the Plaxton Panorama of the late 1950s (or any of its successors), but the problem did re-occur at the Blackpool factory – by then Duple (Northern) – in the 1960s with the original Viceroy. Several of those rolled on to their backs resulting in window pillar collapse and crushed passengers.

Neville Mercer

01/07/16 – 06:15

The stenghtheners between the window pillars seem to run inside the glazing, and my guess is they were put in at recertification as the Mk VII had a reputation for flexibility…

Stephen Allcroft

01/07/16 – 06:16

Strangely, despite editing the photo for submission, I’d failed to notice those dividing strips. I’m going to have to search for a photo showing it (or similar ones) with Valliant to see if they were built like that, or whether it was a Premier Travel modification.
I agree, Philip, that the original centre-entrance version was by far the the best looking, but I think the front-entrance Mk.IV’s and V’s still looked pretty decent too. I think the worst looking Seagulls were the Mk.VI with flat windscreens and little bus-type windows (though they were undoubtedly a more practical proposition from Ribble’s point of view), and the downright ugly 1959 season model for the Bedford SB.

John Stringer

01/07/16 – 16:18

Setting aside the possible involvement of the Safety Elf or his predecessors, could it be that the centre-door version was more “coach” as used by one’s local holiday tours firm, and the front/forward entrance one was more “express bus” as used by North Western, Ribble, etc?

Pete Davies

04/07/16 – 15:58

Here is a picture of 86 UME without the strengthening in the middle of the windows (at least on the offside): www.sct61.org.uk/

Stephen Allcroft

Anderton – AEC Reliance – OWT 940


Copyright John C Gillham

Anderton (Keighley)
1955
AEC Reliance MU3RV
Burlingham Seagull C41F

For me the classic Burlingham Seagull remains as stylish and attractive as it did when I saw my first Sheffield United Tours examples. This one, Reliance MU3RV294, Burlingham 5855, was new to Anderton of Keighley in January 1955 and was snapped by John C Gillham at the Clacton Coach Rally.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

24/04/17 – 07:20

The design and appearance of the Seagull can, I think, be justifiably be described as immortal.

Chris Youhill

25/04/17 – 07:21

Shaped a bit like a teardrop… but more refined….

Mike..009

27/04/17 – 14:56

OWT 940 was sold to Victoria Coaches of Wakefield and was exported to Malta in 1970, probably as a chassis only.
It received a coach body built by Debono and was in the coach fleet as registration number 2573 by December 1970, later being re-registered to Y-0871.
By July 1987 it had been downgraded to bus work as Y-0767 as B45F, losing its glass rooflights and gaining green livery.
It later received yellow bus livery and was re-registered to FBY 767.
In this form it worked until 2011, when the interesting Malta Bus fleet was swept away in the name of progress.
Thus it worked hard until it was 56 years old, a tribute to AEC.

Dave Farrier

28/04/17 – 17:16

At one time the Maltese route bus vehicles only worked on alternate days, so perhaps this lovely old lady has a semi-retirement in the sun.

David Wragg

04/05/17 – 06:40

I was very interested to see the photo of the Anderton’s AEC. I grew up in Anderton’s home town (Keighley) and they were a well-known local coach business, always smartly turned out in pale blue and cream. I obviously wasn’t observant enough, because I don’t recall this vehicle. Anderton’s seemed to trade in at regular intervals, usually purchasing lighter modern coaches such as the Vega, etc. Sadly they sold out, I think in the early 80s, to Bowen’s and they were closed down.

David Rhodes

Harper Bros – AEC Regal III – TRE 251 – 42


Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Harper Bros (Heath Hayes) Ltd
1950
AEC Regal III
Burlingham C33F

I do not have much information on Harper Bros but Heath Hayes is approximately 3kms east of Cannock, Staffordshire. If you have any information and would like to share it please leave a comment. From what I have come up with they were taken over by Midland Red Omnibus Company Limited (MROC) in September 1974, the depot at Heath Hayes was closed and the buses were moved to a new Midland Red depot at Cannock.
I am not sure who built the body for the above coach but if I had to guess Duple would be fairly high on the list. This style of body was called an half canopy as there was no roof over the bonnet and nearside mudguard as apposed to an half cab which did. The Harper Bros livery was a light grey green with white mudguards and in the case of this coach a white roof not sure if the white roof was standard for all the fleet.
Is there anybody who can explain the difference if there is one between Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company Limited (BMMO) and Midland Red Omnibus Company Limited (MROC). If you know please leave a comment.

You are spot on, TRE 251 has a Burlingham C33F body as had sister vehicle TRE 241. Both new in 1950. TRE 251 was scrapped in Nov 1968, TRE241 not traced. Harper Bros had 9 AEC double deck buses & 6 AEC coaches from 1930 to the mid 1960s. If anyone requires information on Harper Bros I will gladly try to answer any queries.

Mick Bullock

The Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co Ltd (BMMO) was established on 26 November 1904. BMMO was commonly known as Midland Red & used the fleet name Midland on its distinctive red buses. After losing Birmingham services to the new West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive (WMPTE) BMMO was renamed to the Midland Red Omnibus Co Ltd (MRO) on 29 March 1974. MRO lasted until 6 September 1981 when it was divided into six independent companies: Midland Red (North) etc. Enthusiasts can learn all this & much more at Adam Harber’s excellent www.midlandred.net website.

Peter Walford

24/03/11 – 08:38

Hi I am seeking fleet list of Harpers from there start to BMMO sell out. Any costs will be met.

John Hellewell

07/07/11 – 06:38

I now live in Cheshire and have done since 1960, I was born in Walsall Wood during the war. I remember Harpers bus service very well and used it till it was taken over, sad day. It was in my mind the best bus service I have ever known, I wish I had kept some of the early tickets which were about 3 inches by 2, all different colours and individual. The half fare for me was tuppence from Streets corner to Aldridge, If I came out of the house late and did not get to the bus stop they would pick me up, I remember in 1965 getting the bus to Aldridge and my girl friend getting on in Aldridge and she was late, John Morson the driver would shout don’t get off Jim we will wait for her. I know this is not much but you may draw something from it.

Jimmie Charles

07/07/11 – 08:09

What a lovely romantic story, Jimmie – the driver knew what romance was all about! Were that service was like that today!

Chris Hebbron

08/07/11 – 06:19

Thanks Chris, I have very little to offer but one thing stays in my mind, they had a double decker that was different to the others, when you went upstairs the aisle did not go down the centre with twin seats either side but went down the off side of the upper deck with seats on the left which seated 4. does that make sense. If I can think of any more useless info I will let you know.

Jimmie Charles

09/07/11 – 07:05

Hi Jimmie the double decker you refer to is what was classed as a Low Bridge Decker by having the aisle along the offside meant the roofline could be lower, the normal height would be 14’6 a low bridge if I remember correctly was around 13’6. I stand corrected but I think the fleet number was 3, if you remember you had to step up from the aisle into the seats and downstairs you had to mind your head if you sat by the offside window. I used to work for Harpers for a few years from 1964 both part time and full time conducting and driving (happy days) so if their is anything that you want to know and I can give you the answer I will

Phil Burton

09/12/11 – 08:33

Jimmie you have brought back a lot of memories. I to was born in Walsall Wood and remember Harper Bros with affection both for Bus services… Cannock through Brownhills to Kingstanding; Saturday Football Coaches to Villa, WBA and Wolves, and Saturday Holiday Coaches to North Wales resorts, New Brighton, Southport and Blackpool. In school holidays worked at their Aldridge Garage taking Holiday and Day Trip bookings. Most reliable and considerate firm out, our annual trip to Colwyn Bay would never have been the same, especially as coach hardly made the big hills at times, or had to pull in and wait to cool off. Still have a model Guy Arab in their colours, prized possession.

Ken Paskin

01/04/12 – 08:36

Has John Hellewell managed to acquire a Harper Bros fleet list yet, as I could supply him with one if required.

Mick Bullock

15/04/12 – 07:35

I think Jimmie’s referring to KRE 849, Harper’s fleet no. 24, a Burlingham lowbridge bodied Guy.
Mick – any chance of a copy of your fleet list, please?

Graeme Fisher

04/07/12 – 05:14

I remember Harpers with great fondness as a young lad from the 1960’s when a bus conductor called Jack used to let me ring the bell on journeys between Hednesford and Aldridge. I am always on the look out for photos from this period and as someone has mentioned I also would love a fleet list. If anyone can.

Keith Harley

17/07/12 – 07:11

Phil and Jimmie
The lowbridge double decker was fleet number 24, KRE 849 with Burlingham bodywork.

Graeme Fisher

21/07/12 – 07:43

Graeme
Thanks for the confirmation, I wasn’t sure of the fleet number as I was only a child when I used to ride on it from Cannock to Kingstanding on Saturday afternoons with my dad who used to conduct it as well as other buses in the fleet, happy memories. When I worked for Harpers it was long gone.

Phil Burton

23/07/12 – 07:53

I would also be interested in a Harpers fleet list.

Alan Nicholls

22/09/12 – 06:57

The depot at Heath Hayes wasn’t closed when Harpers were taken over, I think Midland Red used it for 3/4 years before opening the new depot at Cannock.
When Midland Red lost a significant proportion of its operating area (and depots) to WMPTE, it found itself short of depot capacity and therefore reopened a depot at Cradley Heath which had closed some time earlier. When the Cannock depot was opened, both Heath Hayes and Cradley Heath depots closed. (Yes, I know Cradley Heath is nowhere near Cannock, there must have been a bit of a swap about of routes). I believe that some of the staff from Cradley Heath actually transferred to Cannock, which must have been something of a hike for them.
Incidentally, after the loss of routes to WMPTE Midland Red publicly stated that it was on the acquisition trail – so it wasn’t too much of a surprise when, before too long, it had bought not only Harpers but also Green Bus of Rugeley.

David Call

02/10/12 – 15:22

I remember the Cannock garage, My uncle drove for Harpers and lived in the house next to the garage. I’m no sure if the house an garage are still there. Does anyone have any photos of Harpers Garage in Cannock?

Merv

27/10/12 – 05:57

Harper’s garage at Heath Hayes was demolished some time ago and replaced by housing. Their small garage at Aldridge survives as a carpet shop. As others have said, they were a special operator in their day and sold out because Albert Harper wished to retire and no other family member was interested.

Tony Martin

07/02/13 – 06:42

I have very fond memories of Harpers of Heath Hayes as my father, the late Joe Martin was a driver for them during my childhood in the 1950’s and 60’s. I can remember a couple of other drivers, Jack Slater, Ernie ??? We lived in the village too, so I was always going on trips during school holidays with the Labour Club, The Cons Club etc. I have a photo of my dad pictured at a reunion of drivers and staff some years ago, which I will dig out and place here. I also have some black and white photos of a couple of trips with all the children, mothers and even Nurse Girdlestone assembled (a local Heath Hayes character from the 50’s and 60’s!) They show just how many people were transported to lovely places for the day by several drivers on the same day. It was like a coach convoy!
My friend’s late mother also worked in the office at the Harpers garage on the Stafford Road in Cannock, her name was Vera Sherratt and we still often talk about this great local company, who served this area of the Midlands very well. My parents originally met on my dad’s bus too on the route to Chapel Ash. In later years he gave up his job as a driver for Harpers before Midland Red took over, to work in my mothers grocery shop in Mill Street, Cannock – he always said he felt like his driving wings had been clipped!
Sorry that my account is not too bus related, but this lovely company was always held in high regard by everyone that travelled with them.

Carol Jones

20/02/13 – 16:55

Hi Carol, I remember your late father both as a child, when my late father Cyril Burton worked different shifts with him as his conductor & some Saturdays I would have a ride to Kingstanding have a cup of tea in the billiard hall with Joe & my dad then ride back, also when your father would be the driver of an excursion to the seaside we would be going on, no motorways then. Also when I started part time with Harpers as a conductor I worked with him a few times but he did mainly excursions & private hire work then. Other drivers who would have worked for this iconic company at the time Joe was there & he would probably bring up in conversation would be George Brown, Jack Poiser, Joe Scott, Norman Mills, Eric Thacker, Les King, Ray Wilce, Tommy Owen, George & Bill Elsmore to name but a few. The people who were served by Harpers Buses & crews had no idea what a great reliable service they had until 1974 when they lost it, I bet they wish they had Harpers now.

Phil Burton

09/06/13 – 11:38

I remember Harpers well through my childhood and youth. They had a garage and small booking office at the corner of New Penkridge Road Cannock with Dartmouth Avenue. One of their renowned drivers was named Jim Brown and he lived nearby in New Penkridge Road and I was at school with his son Emlyn.
My Aunt at Wedges Mills used to organise coach trips with Harpers through many summers late 40s early 50s – Rhyl, Blackpool, New Brighton, Evesham at blossom and fruit times and London all being popular Sunday destinations leaving happy memories. My Aunt was a nervous passenger and was always more nervous when Jim drove the coach as she considered him a “speed mad driver” and she often used to say ” He will kill us all” – in truth he was a good driver and she was just suffering from nervousness.
Also recall that on Saturdays when Wolves were playing at home at 2pm a single deck and a double deck Harpers would pass through packed with supporters to the game.
In the late 50s my method of transport to my first job was via Harpers single decker from Cannock (Rosas Cafe) to Brewood via Hatherton, Calf Heath and Four Ashes a life line for those places at that time..

Tony Bibb

10/03/14 – 14:53

I too used to travel on Harpers buses 1948-1964
I lived in Hatherton Village, Cannock.
Yes the bus drivers used to know every ones ‘habits’ and would wait for any of their usual passengers if they were late. Conductors helped you on and off the bus with any luggage.
I remember going to school one very deep snowy morning in Brewood, and the bus got stuck in a drift on Somerford corner, so the driver Harry, locked up the bus and actually marched us all round to our school in a line. Then went back to sort his bus out.
Nothing was too much trouble for any of the drivers or conductors.
One of the drivers I remember by name was Levi, and the guy that wore the brown overall, was he the Inspector Mr Cardman or something close to that name.
Oh what memorable, pleasant happy days.
Service with a smile always. It was a grand company.

Carole Mears

19/03/14 – 07:33

Hi Carole I think the names you are thinking about are possibly Levi Humphries and Athy Carden. Like you say pleasant happy days.

Phil Burton

11/08/14 – 09:54

It’s been a couple of years since I have been on this site, I am amazed how much has been added since then, I found the picture of the tickets interesting & remember them, however before those tickets which rolled out of a small machine when the handle was turned, the conductor & I do remember Jack if it’s the same man had a kind of wooden clip board which he took the individual tickets out & punched a hole in them, does anyone remember those wonderful different coloured tickets? Why didn’t I keep some. Also, after reading your articles I felt a warmth which you don’t get these days, also, I remember the day trips to Wales, a real treat for ordinary kids who had very little & there were plenty of us. How lucky we were.

Jimmie Charles

11/06/16 – 05:31

As a lad of 13 during the late 60s l went on many day trips with Harpers during the school holidays. My late mother and father would book the tickets for us from a little office in Park Road Sutton Coldfield,close to where we lived. We would meet the coach at a place called Harman Road and the adventure would start. We had no car and limited amounts of money, but Harpers helped to create some of the happiest memory’s of my life, l will never forget them and their ‘family ‘of friendly drivers.

John Starkey

19/06/16 – 05:55

I worked for Harper Bros in their Heath Hayes office from 1962-1974,then Midland Red 1974-1978. I did a short period of working at the ‘Gloria De Luxe Office in Sutton Coldfield, before moving to Head Office. Best time of my working life.

Pam Harris (Nee Dodd)

08/11/17 – 06:24

I remember Harpers Buses fondly from my early days. We lived in Stonnall and my Nan lived in Commonside Brownhills so we either got a bus to Streets Corner or the Brownhills bus to Freezeland Lane.
We then moved to Aldridge and continued to use Harpers buses.
Even our Bruce dog used them – he was a pretty savvy Corgi-Collie cross. He’d always gone on the buses with Mom and Dad and knew enough to hop on a bus at the corner of Leighswood Ave and Northgate, get under the seat and then get off at Streets Corner and go to my Great Grandad’s house and then, having found no one in, trot off round to Nan’s. He did a similar trick but went back to our old house in Main St Stonnall before going down to my Gran’s in Cartersfield Lane. He got away with this because the conductor, Levy who many will remember, knew him.

Chris Smith

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

07/03/20 – 07:25

As a lad of 17 I lived in Clacton-on-Sea and often took one of Suttons Coaches to London to visit my Grandfather.
I very clearly recall the delivery in 1947 of New Leyland Tigers and AEC Regal III’s. A couple of times I travelled on the inaugural trip of one of these vehicles.
While I am almost 90 I still recall those trips very clearly. I have trawled the web looking for pictures of these and my only find was A Tiger LVX 679 and LVX 680. I have found info on AEC Regal OTW 50 but no pictures. Do you have any ideas about places to look.

David Hawksworth

09/03/20 – 06:39

David if you use the search facility on the “Bus lists on the web” site it will bring up results from the “flickr” photo sharing site of OTW 50.

Stephen Howarth

09/03/20 – 06:40

A gentleman called David Troughton wrote a book on Suttons of Clacton a few years ago. I have a copy but can’t find a supplier on the internet.

Nigel Turner

Burnham’s Coaches – AEC Regal III – CFK 340

Burnham’s Coaches - AEC Regal III - CFK 340

H & E Burnham (Worcester)
1948
AEC Regal III 6821A 
Burlingham C33F

CFK 340 is an AEC Regal III with Burlingham C33F body from the fleet of Burnham’s of Worcester. She dates from 1948 and, in this view in Winchester on 1 January, 2012, she was in Roger Burdett’s collection. I believe that, despite the Worcester address and registration, the firm’s base was actually in Bromyard, Herefordshire, in another case of geography and the Post Office not being in agreement. Ealing might be expected to have a TW or UB postcode, as it is in the old Middlesex, but it has a London W5 mark.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

27/07/15 – 06:48

This photo has cheered me up on a very soggy Sunday morn! I’m not sure I’ve ever seen many early post-war Burlingahm bodies; this one being very traditional and attractive. To me the AEC chromed rads always look more stylish that the Leyland ones. I notice that Bromyard is equidistant from both Worcester and Hereford at 15 miles, with Bromyard about 6 miles from the county boundaries. Maybe they tended to go into Worcester more frequently/easily. Postal addresses, then postcodes, have a mystery of their own. Yateley’s in Hampshire, but postally it’s Yateley, Camberley, Surrey! I think that they were related to sorting offices, not an important distinction now. And why do folk still stick with Middx, 40-odd years after what was left of it disappeared?

Chris Hebbron

27/07/15 – 06:48

This vehicle was restored by brothers, John, and the late Alan Purvis, of Seaburn, which to the North of the river Wear, but is part of Sunderland. Although it was never part of their fleet, after restoration it was in the livery of Carney of Sunderland, it was later restored to original, but I don’t know if that was before or after it changed hands.

Ronnie Hoye

27/07/15 – 06:50

A photo of the rear of coach CFK 340 shows

H & E Burnham Ltd,
Bromyard
Worcestor
Worcestor 3321        Bromyard 187

The H & E Burnham Ltd. being in a half circle format with Bromyard and Worcestor as above followed by the two telephone numbers.

Alan Coulson

28/07/15 – 05:55

Ronnie,
It was repainted before it changed hands being part of the sale to Mr R. Smith of Hexham in Northumberland in 1990’s remaining with him till 2009 when it went to Steve Morris at Quantock Heritage at Taunton a year later it is seen in Rodger Burdetts collection in Coventry where it remains today still in original Burnhams livery.

Alan Coulson

29/07/15 – 06:21

We used to live in a small village in South Oxfordshire….
Our local post office delivery centre was part of the Central Reading Post Office area, so although we lived over 20 miles from Reading, our postal address and postcode always ended in Reading, Berkshire and bore no relation to our actual location….This also made dealing with the local South Oxfordshire District Council a bit of a hit and miss affair as more often than not they used to refer us to Reading Council whenever we asked for their help or made enquiries about services….
To this day, it causes some confusion, especially when using drop down menus on web sites….

Stuart C

29/07/15 – 08:41

CFK 340_2

The approximate date of this photo is 1980 no later than 1981 definitely is CFK 340. Not a good photo but original is ageing. Original Burnham livery from 1948 after this it is then seen in Carney livery.

Alan Coulson

10:51

A fascinating photo of ‘before’! Is this when she was rescued, Alan? Restoration was certainly a daunting task.

Chris Hebbron

29/07/15 – 10:53

Burnhams had a garage in Worcester 50/60’s corner of what is now City Walls rd & St Martins Gate. They had a school contract between Dines Green & Henwick Grove the coach I remember was also a Burlingham but had the more rounded Seagull body it was described as a two stroke.

Richard

29/07/15 – 17:24

I know John Pervis was involved in the restoration of another of Burnham’s vehicles almost identical to this one. DFK214. Pure speculation on my part, perhaps they were bought as a pair, with the hope of making one good one from what was available between the two? They both made it into preservation, and as far as I know are both still around

Ronnie Hoye

29/07/15 – 17:25

The vehicle broke piston rings at Easter and is off the road awaiting delivery of a replacement engine promised but with no confirmed date.
The seats internally still have horse hair and coil springs and are exceptionally comfortable.
Hopefully will be round in 2016

Roger Burdett

30/07/15 – 08:38

Chris,
Yes to your question,I believe couple of panels removed to eye extent of rot. Restoration only took 8 months mainly after working hours and weekends a accolade to the Two brothers Alan & John to the extremely high standard, the refurbished coach was soon to be seen on Show/rally circuit.
Reference your soggy Sunday words next time we have a day like that I will post a photo of DFK 214 another Ex.Burnhams I had this in mind to run after CFK ends of which I have more detail.

Ronnie,
Both CFK 340 & DFK 214 were almost complete coaches each refurbished from own units with spares obtained from another coach. Not only bought as a pair but of 3, was another EFK 760 this was likewise almost complete.
All 3 coaches were new to Burnhams.
CFK 340 5/1948, a MK III C33F.
DFK 214 7/1949, also a MK III C33F,
EFK 760 7/1951 was a MK IV C39C.
All 3 are currently in preservation.

Alan Coulson

31/07/15 – 08:34

Type DFK 214 into your search engine, and you will be directed to this site of Pervis Bros, bus restorers. On the site there are photos of several of their restorations, including one of this vehicle in the livery of Carney, standing alongside a restored DFK. There is also a photo of the two together in Burnham livery.

Ronnie Hoye

31/07/15 – 14:00

CFK 340_3

Here is a restored view now in R. W.Carney livery. 8 months on from the view in Burnhams livery prior to restoration.

Alan Coulson

01/08/15 – 06:28

Alan, for a number of years there is/was an Alexander Bluebird ‘Northern’ half cab Burlingham bodied ‘Daimler? I think, parked up in former NCT depot at Slatyford. Is that it behind CFK?

Ronnie Hoye

28/08/15 – 06:49

Burnhams were Worcester-based and had NO connection with Bromyard. A large rural stage network was sold to Midland Red in 1938 along with a Worcester- Aberystwyth express service- Burnhams then carried on as private hire operators. All this is confirmed info; what follows isn’t checked, but I seem to remember that they carried on in a small way until c1975 when everything was auctioned off – including some elderly stock which had been kept on, decaying gently a la Mulleys of Ixworth.This is presumably how CFK etc survived.

Phil Drake

01/09/15 – 07:13

Looking again carefully at the rear of the unrestored vehicle should solve the Bromyard Worcestershire discussion once and for all.
It says “Bromyard AND Worcester” with no mention of a County. Thus I assume the company maintained bases in both locations.

Larry B

04/09/15 – 07:15

Ronnie.
Yes you are correct well spotted.
I have other similar photo’s showing more of both coaches. Without checking them my memory states it is BMS 415 if you input the reg. into a search engine there is photo of it standing alone in depot.
I believe the photo of CFK/BMS may well been taking in lay-by outside Newcastle on old A1 back ground view of Town Moor with high rise flats in view. Lay by being a meeting point on way to Scottish show in 1987. Alan Coulson.

Alan Coulson

01/10/15 – 06:18

Phil Drake, I’m grateful for your comments regarding Burnhams.
Having done extensive history of CFK 340,(DFK 214-EFK 760). I find the NO connection Bromyard strange as all the photo’s of Burnhams show both Worcestor and Bromyard with telephone numbers.
My information is they were known to have premises in Cornmarket at Clifton on Teme, Worcestor and Rowberry Street Bromyard. I have recently seen photo of Leyland Cheetah coach with Burlingham body new to them in 1938 the year they were sold to Midland Red showing Bromyard and Worcestor. In this photo the and is in capitols. AND, in a rear view of coach.In all other photo’s the and is seen as & this is clearly seen on unrestored coach. CFK 340 was purchased in the 2nd auction 1979 from the big shed at Clifton.
Any further comments are gratefully accepted.
Larry B.
As mentioned above my notes show company operated from both Worcestor and Bromyard.
Thank you both for your comments.

Alan Coulson

07/08/17 – 06:29

I was friends with one of the sons of the company owner in the ’70s. There were a couple of retired buses in their garden in Kempsey. I believe that they were the first vehicles the firm owned and were of sentimental value. Might this be one of them?

Sam Thompson

07/08/17 – 16:12

My understanding was that the vehicles were kept long after the operator side ceased.

Roger Burdett

10/08/17 – 14:29

Sam.
I would say CFK 340 may not have been one of the vehicle’s in the garden as it is known they ran earlier coaches CFK being new in 1948. From earlier in the thread I have seen a photo of a Leyland in 1938 around the time the company was split from stage services to private hire this coach was in all white livery.

Alan Coulson

12/08/17 – 07:35

Disgraced itself this week with an Autovac failure on the A46, needed a suspended tow back to base.

Roger Burdett

13/08/17 – 07:29

Commiserations, Roger!

Chris Hebbron

06/10/20 – 10:06

I have only just found this page, but I have read it all with great interest, as I well remember the former Burnham’s garage in Spring Gardens, Worcester. When I used to look through the gaps between the doors in the late 1970’s there were seven coaches laid up in there. They were two Bedford OB’s, the two Regal III’s (CFK 340 and DFK 214), and three Regal IV’s with Burlingham Seagull bodies. I have only recently found my sheet of paper where I drew out their details and positions within the garage. At the same time there was also a derelict coach standing out in the open at Bromyard, which I believe may have been either CNP 504 or 505. Any further information on that one would be welcome.

Terry Jones

06/10/20 – 17:02

A small correction to my earlier comment – CFK 340 was not one of the seven in the garage at Worcester. DFK 214 was in there, but the other half-cab was a Leyland LZ2 Cheetah, CAB 630, also with a Burlingham body, according to my notes at the time.

Terry Jones

10/10/20 – 07:02

There are photos of the Cheetah, rebuilt by Burnhams and disguised by an AEC radiator, at www.na3t.org/photo/One  and www.na3t.org/photo/Two

Peter Williamson

12/10/20 – 06:20

It would seem that the radiator wasn’t just a disguise – the accompanying comment to both photos says it was fitted with an AEC 7.7 litre engine and radiator.

Chris Hebbron

28/11/20 – 07:05

DFK 214 was last known registered BG-TP-21 in Holland see this link  still in Mulleys livery.

John Wakefield

15/03/21 – 06:26

This now looks to have been sold back to a UK owner www.facebook.com/groups/

Mr Anon

15/03/21 – 13:33

Looking at the photo of the coach’s inside, the restoration was superbly done. For those of us of a certain age and recall vehicles like this running about when we were young, it’s amazing to think that the vehicle is 63 years old!

Chris Hebbron

17/03/21 – 16:05

DFK 214 while in Holland most photos show coach kept in Mulleys livery Red roof and front wheel guards in Red a current batch of photos show theses to be in Green can anyone state if when in Holland it was repainted in Green to its Holland owner or was it a livery change back to new owner in Uk. In recent photos it is still showing Holland registration plate maybe re-registered in UK it may be DFK 214 once again.
DFK 214 was new in 7-1949 pleased to see it returned to UK in 3-2021 72 years on the road. Both CFK 340 and DFK 214 were both restored to a high standard immaculate interiors with top class exterior liveries – hopefully they will remain road worthy for a number of years yet.

Alan Coulson

18/03/21 – 06:28

It would appear that at some point it got painted from red to green in Holland. Apparently its now been sold back to UK to a buyer in Seaford. This would point to Seaford & District who have a large heritage fleet.

John Wakefield

18/03/21 – 06:30

Not gone to Seaford & District.

John Wakefield

18/03/21 – 14:58

Going to Marshopper Ltd.

John Wakefield

21/03/21 – 07:13

That’s a surprise-do they know what they are letting themselves in for?

Roger Burdett

Northern General Transport’s PD3/4s

In 1958, the Northern General Group took delivery of 53 Leyland PD3/4 vehicles. To the best of my knowledge, they were their first 30ft double deck buses; they were also the last rear entrance, although not the last half cabs, that particular label went to the Routemasters of 1963/4. I know a few half cabs were drafted in post NBC, but that was after the lunatics had taken control of the asylum.

The independence NGT allowed its subsidiaries in vehicle choice and specification has been discussed before on this site, and here is another example.
13 were ordered by Sunderland District Omnibus YPT 286 to 298; 286/298
They were primarily bought for use on SDO’s longer routes, and had Burlingham H41/32RD bodies, and very smart they looked in the understated Navy blue and white livery.

The remainder were all H41/32R MCW Orion bodies.

3 for Tyneside NNL 48 to 50; 48/50 Sage green and cream.

5 for Gateshead & District HCN 475 to 479; 75/79 Chocolate and cream.

20 for Northern YPT 825 to 484; 1825/1844 BET red and cream.

12 for Percy Main of which ten AFT 224 to 233; 224/233 for Tynemouth & District and two
AFT 234 and 235; 234/235 for Wakefields Motors Ltd. All twelve in BET red and cream.

I think its fair to say that the Orion would not be everyone’s first choice for favourite body, and the least said about the early ones the better. However, lessons were learned and these 1958 versions were a vast improvement on those on the earlier Guy Arab’s and Leyland PD2’s. As was the practice with Gateshead and District, theirs had a Newcastle Corporation style destination layout, but that and different liveries apart, outwardly, all the Orion’s looked to be pretty much the same. The interiors were finished in brown with Rexene covered seats. However, the 12 for Percy Main were finished to a much higher interior specification, as well as a different colour, ‘green’ they had moquette upholstered seats. Shortly after delivery, the front number plates were moved from the radiator to the front panel below the windscreen. AFT 930, had an extended life as a driver training vehicle, and I’m pleased say that it has survived into preservation, and is currently in the extremely capable hands of North East Bus Preservation Trust Ltd where it is undergoing extensive restoration. There was also a Sunderland District Omnibus example ‘YPT 289’ which was listed as awaiting preservation, but it seems to have dropped off the radar, does anyone know anything about it?

AFT 229 fleet number 229 is pictured above round the back of Percy Main depot, and looks to have just arrived from MCW, but in fairness, their vehicles were always well turned out, but this was in an age before ‘pride’ became an outdated idea that was surplus to requirements.

Ronnie Hoye
01/2016

28/01/16 – 09:55

‘The front number plates were moved from the radiator to the front panel below the windscreen’.
I have often wondered why, when the majority of operators were content to have the front number plate in the traditional position below the radiator, some chose to locate them in odd places.
Below the cab windscreen might have been something to do with better visibility than down at ground level. But why have them up on the waistrail, beneath the destination indicator? Southdown had consecutive batches of buses in this period with number plates ‘up there’ and blow the radiator. So there seems to have been no company policy.
And Barton was famous for putting adverts down below the radiator ‘Parcels by Bus’, for example, with the number plate high up on the body. Clearly, they weren’t worried about road dirt obscuring the number plate, as it would have been their own advert that would have been obscured.
Was it to do with identification of buses in the depot? Then surely prominent fleet numbers would have been the answer and operators have total control of where these are sited.
Does anybody here know the reason ?

Petras409

28/01/16 – 11:39

Usually when operators moved the number plate from the radiator onto the bodywork it was to allow radiators to be swapped from one bus to another without having to swap the plate as well.

John Stringer

28/01/16 – 16:08

YPT 289 is included on the NEBPT’s list of preserved buses with a North-East connection, dated 27/2/14, and that seems to be regarded as the ‘current’ list. It’s given as awaiting restoration, with owner Ritchie, Peterborough.
Is there reason to suspect that its status has recently changed?

David Call

29/01/16 – 07:11

I find it fascinating to note the allocated registration series of these buses. Clearly Northern General allowed it’s subsidiaries to use their local office for their particular batch, so we have, AFT, HCN, NNL, and YPT. One (AFT) is just starting a three letter forward series, one (HCN) is about a third through, one (NNL) just over half-way, and the other (YPT) is the last in a forward series, about to start reverse issues. Quite fascinating when all these issuing offices were in the same area! No doubt that all changed in the 1974 sort-out.

Michael Hampton

29/01/16 – 17:35

Yes Michael, prior to 1974, apart from vehicles acquired by way of a takeover, all vehicles new to United, were registered in Darlington ‘HN’, whereas NGT group vehicles were registered in several different authority areas. Vehicles new to Tyneside were Northumberland ‘JR-NL or TY’ Tynemouth & District and Wakefields Motors were Tynemouth ‘FT’. SDO were County Durham ‘PT or UP’ and Gateshead & District were Gateshead ‘CN’. A handfull of Northern vehicles were registered in South Shields ‘CU’ the remainder were all either Gateshead or County Durham. Strangely enough, Sunderland had two registrations, ‘BR & GR’ but neither seem to have been used by the NGT Group

Ronnie Hoye

Mystery Seagull

Please can you help me to identify this coach.
The photo has some clues:
1. Birmingham registered
2. Operated by Flights of Birmingham
3. Hired to Aston Villa Football Club
The double decker behind might suggest some soccer activity in the making. Perhaps World Cup 1966?

Peter Smith

08/05/15 – 08:49

The coach mentioned is presently in private preservation in West Yorkshire – see Classic Connections.org.uk website.

[Administrator note: The link to the Classic Connections website is no longer active. 18 August 2024]

Chris Youhill

08/05/15 – 17:37

The picture is much too late for the 1966 World Cup. The double-decker behind is a Leyland PD2 or PD3 in the colours of Guide Friday, and this firm was not in existence back then. I don’t know when it started, but my hunch is that it would be the 1980s. If, as Chris says, this coach is now preserved, then this picture shows it in preservation, but the Guide Friday bus could be in active service or in preservation itself – maybe others will know. City Sightseeing (started 1998/99) took over Guide Friday in 2002.

Michael Hampton

09/05/15 – 07:06

Something from the back of my memory brings to mind that Guide Friday operated some ex Leicester City Transport Leyland PD3A deckers possibly containing registrations in one of the ‘JF’ series issued by Leicester. In its formative days Guide Friday began in Stratford-upon-Avon and I wonder if the photo was taken at their Stratford premises.

David Slater

09/05/15 – 07:07

This picture above was taken in the Aston Manor Museum in Witton – the Old Tram Sheds that were – the Museum has moved but the Seagull remains in their custody/care.

As a point of interest the Coach has been modelled by Gorgi as a limited edition (2200 produced) catalogue No OM 40301.

Nigel Edwards

10/05/15 – 07:17

The ex-Leicester open topper is 264 ERY.
This was Guide Friday’s first bus and ran from 1978 until 2000. It is now preserved.

Dave Farrier

10/05/15 – 07:18

Veering a bit off-piste, the open-top decker parked alongside appears to be the ex_Leicester PD3 264 ERY, still in active preservation as part of the Leicester Transport Heritage Trust fleet, and it was active at the recent LTHT/GCR event at Quorn station. see https://ltht.org.uk/264-ery/
The location in the picture looks to me like the old Aston Manor site.

Rob Hancock

12/05/15 – 06:54

The picture showing the Burlingham centre entrance coach, registration TOB 377, was new to Flights of Birmingham. WM TOB 377 AEC Reliance MU3RV 793 Burlingham 5928 C37C New 3/56 and may have been rebodied by Burlingham in 1958.
Flights coaches was a well known coach operator from Birmingham in their cream with black livery, which became Flights-Hallmark in 2005. Flights liked to have registration numbers ending with lucky number 7.
A list of vehicles can be found at www.buslistsontheweb and search owner flight.

Ron Mesure

31/05/15 – 07:05

Further to my comments earlier this month, I have found a website on the history and restoration of TOB 377 which was bought back by Flights for preservation in 1996 after a long life in Norfolk. Its football reference is valid as it claims it to have been the team coach for Aston Villa in 1957 for the Wembley Cup Final, beating Manchester United 2-1. This can be found on “classicconnections.org” under the fleetlist heading. It does seem to have been rebodied, new in 3/56 with body Burlingham Seagull Mk2 C37C body number 5928 on AEC Reliance MU3RV 793 and now is listed with body number 6569? This was new on Wallace Arnold 8340 U with a different styled Burlingham Seagull Mk3 C41F bodywork on Leyland PSUC1/2, (see flickr photos 8340 U to compare styles) can a change of body be verified as 8340 U is still current preserved with Tom Goodwin of Carlton?

Ron Mesure