Highland Omnibuses Ltd 1952 Guy Arab UF Duple C37F
Back in the days of half-cabs, most coaches were distinguishable from single-deck buses by their window line. On buses this was straight and level, but on coaches it usually formed a gentle curve from the focal point of bonnet and cab down towards the rear. Later, when the engine of heavyweight coaches disappeared under the floor, there was no longer such a strong focal point, and at first the coach building industry was undecided as to whether to continue in the old tradition or to produce something as straight and symmetrical as the new chassis. Duple hedged its bets and did both, offering a choice between the curvy Ambassador and the straight-laced Roadmaster. Nicknamed the Iron Duke by those who built it, the Roadmaster was famously much more successful as a Dinky Toy model than it was in the real world, but it did have one big fan in the Red & White group, which purchased 21 spacious 37-seaters on Guy Arab UF chassis as well as a lone Leyland Royal Tiger. After withdrawal, some of the Arab UFs were sold to Highland Omnibuses, an avid Guy user, for bus work, where they formed an unusually sumptuous form of local transport! This one was photographed in Inverness Bus Station in June 1968.
To view a shot of the Ambassador body style click here.
Photograph and copy contributed by Peter Williamson
23/06/12 – 05:54
I find it surprising that some of the really obscure “real” vehicles seem to have been incredibly popular when converted to toy or model form. The Roadmaster is a classis example, along with the Dinky Commer/Harrington in BOAC livery. I suppose it must have depended on the original operators’ preferences, but these Roadmasters look considerably different from those which Standerwick had, and on which the Dinky seems to be based.
Pete Davies
KWO 37 is a Duple WORLDMASTER not a Roadmaster. Ex Red and White. Similarities with the ‘Roadmaster’ are obvious.
Red & White Services 1949 Guy Arab III Duple L27/26RD
Sometime ago a comment was sent in by David Wilder for the Eastern Scottish AEC Regent posting regarding Red & White having had very pleasing Duple body Guy Arab IIIs. Above is a great shot contributed by Andrew Charles who took this shot in 2005 of a very well preserved Red & White Arab III lowbridge Duple. Andrew also forwarded the following copy to go with the shot: “This shot was taken in the grounds of what was then Stroud College during the running day organised by the Stroud RE Group. This site is now under houses but the event goes from strength to strength at the site of the new college. The significance of the bus being at Stroud was of course that in pre Bristol Omnibus days Stroud was a Red & White outpost, we tend to think of them as a Welsh / Forest of Dean operator but they did once go further afield.” The Red & White Guy is not quite as elaborately decorated as the Eastern Scottish Regent as it only has the one decoration band above the lower saloon windows although there as been a United Services posting with decoration above and below the lower saloon windows. I suppose the purchaser had the choice of where and if it was decorated, I have included below the two shots mentioned the Eastern Scottish on the Left and the United Services on the right
Photograph by P Haywood
This posting is of course open to comments and any other shots of decorative Duple double deckers.
Main photograph & part copy contributed by Andrew Charles
Another Red & White subsidiary, Cheltenham & District, took delivery of five virtually identical vehicles to the above in 1950/51, running them until 1966. There was discussion with the Eastern Scottish Regent as to whether there were only lowbridge versions of this handsome bodywork, The book ‘Cheltenham’s Buses 1939-1980’ shows them to be H31/26R, and from a close look at the photos, I believe that they were highbridge examples. They, too, had the thick aluminium strip, although they did not have a safety bar across the front upstairs windows inside. Fleet numbers were 74-78 (JDG786-790).
Chris Hebbron
15/03/11 – 06:24
Of course, Red & White also supplied some new Duple-bodied Guy Arab Mk111’s to its subsidiary fleets, including 4 to Venture of Basingstoke (HOT 391-4) with highbridge bodies and 2 lowbirdge examples to Newbury & District Motor Services (FMO 515/6), along with a highbridge example (FMO 517). The latter was originally intended for Venture, and after a short time the Basingstoke examples were transferred to the N&D fleet in the interests of standardisation. All then remained in service at Newbury until withdrawal in 1968. You can read the full story in my new book The Newbury & District Motor Services Story.
Paul Lacey
15/05/11 – 17:59
One day I was driving towards Bolton through the Lancashire town of Leigh. I am sure I saw a Guy Arab in Red and White very faded colours parked in a mill. I assume it had been or was being used as a staff bus for the mill workers. This must have been around the mid 1980’s. Has anyone any information on the fate of the vehicle.
R D Hughes
29/08/11 – 08:07
These where ordered by Red & White; but arrived shortly after a depot swop with Bristol Omnibus; Stroud and Cheltenham went to B.O.C. while R & W had services in the Forest of Dean/Wye Valley/Hereford from B.O.C. They had high bodies no rear doors, and spent most of their days on the St. Marks routes, in Cheltenham. Lovely buses even to the end of their days, The Red & White ones were low bodies with doors and ran in the Forest/Monmouth area. The sad point being Cheltenham District did not fit in with B.O.C. as well as it did with Red & White. Red & White retained its Coach operation, at Montpellier Spa Depot, for a number of years, before basing its Cheltenham Coaches at the Black & White Coach Station for a number of years, until the birth of National Express.
Provincial (Gosport & Fareham Omnibus Co) 1949 Guy Arab III Duple L27/26RD
HWO 344 was a 1949 Guy Arab III with Duple L53RD body, in the fleet of Provincial, Gosport & Fareham. She’s been relegated to duty as a training vehicle and is seen outside the Hants & Dorset depot in Southampton on the same dull lunchtime as my view of the Southern Vectis Bristol Lodekka KDL 414 in March 1974, which was published a few weeks ago. She is an exile from Red & White (L1949 in their fleet) and is of course a sister vehicle to L1749 which features in the excellent “Gallery” by Ken Morgan titled Red and White Guy L1749.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
29/11/12 – 07:41
Copyright Diesel Dave
I was pleasantly surprised to see the photo of the Provincial Duple bodied Guy Arab III trainer T1 as I had recently been looking through some of my old photos which included a photo of the same bus taken in the early 70’s at the Provincial Hoeford garage.
Diesel Dave
29/11/12 – 10:08
Nice view, Dave! Brighter than mine, of course, since it was taken in sunshine. It’s always seemed a pity to me that there is no fleet name on the side of the vehicle.
Pete Davies
29/11/12 – 11:09
It did have its own identity, though; the minute T1 amidst the signs! I wonder how many trainers they had.
Chris Hebbron
29/11/12 – 16:12
Chris, so far as I am aware, there’s only ever been one trainer in use at a time. The last I recall seeing was a Bristol FLF (EMR 295D) ex Wilts & Dorset, and it didn’t seem to have a T prefix to the fleet number. It did, however, have the Provincial fleet name in NBC style.
Edinburgh Corporation 1943 Guy Arab II Duple/Nudd H31/24R
This unusual but nonetheless attractive-looking Guy Arab II was new in 1943 to London Transport as its G77 (GLL 577), and was originally fitted with utility bodywork by Park Royal. A Gardner 5LW engine provided the power. It was withdrawn from London service in 1952 and sold to Edinburgh C.T, who had the chassis rebodied by Duple/Nudd in 1953. As can be seen, it was given a full front and concealed radiator by the bodybuilder. However, the front nearside ‘windscreen’ and side window next to the bonnet were not glazed, probably as an aid to maintenance as regards access to the engine. Interestingly it was re-registered by ECT on rebodying. Could this indicate that the chassis was fully overhauled by ECT prior to the new body being fitted? The photo shows the vehicle in preservation, and isn’t that livery just beautiful?
Photograph and Copy contributed by Brendan Smith
29/12/13 – 10:00
Thanks for posting, Brendan. I’ve not yet seen this vehicle “in the flesh” since I started photographing buses, but I do recall seeing other Edinburgh vehicles with the strange feature you mention. I think the others were Leyland Titans.
Pete Davies
29/12/13 – 14:57
My knowledge of Nudd Bros as a bodybuilder is practically zero but the one useless piece of information that I do recall is that Mrs. Nudd was formerly a Miss. Mabel Barton whose father was not exactly unknown in the bus world.
Nigel Turner
30/12/13 – 07:18
In an era when there was still a shortage of buses, London Transport were forbidden from selling surplus buses to BET competitors, a ridiculous restriction. So, apart from many going abroad, the largest single other purchases were 100 Daimler CWA6’s to Belfast Corporation and 60 LT austerity Guy Arabs were bought by Edinburgh Corporation buses, I think, for tram replacement. They were given fleet numbers 301 to 360 (JWS 581 to 640). Leyland-style glass-fibre fronts replaced the originals when they were overhauled in 1959. Most of them lasted until the late 1960’s. I wonder if the registrations were changed just for the sake of having Scottish ones.
Chris Hebbron
30/12/13 – 07:18
There were sixty of these buses, purchased to enable the Edinburgh tramway system to be abandoned within very tight budgetary constraints. London Transport wanted to get rid of all its utilities as soon as possible. The Guy Arabs, many of which had crash gearboxes with the “wrong way round” (upwards from right to left) gear selection, were the least popular of the four utility types in the fleet. The unfrozen TD7 STDs were pretty unpopular with drivers too, but there were only eleven of these buses compared with 435 of the Guys. Understandably, LT wanted to get the best price possible for these quite young machines of relatively low mileage, but the British Transport Commission, to which LT had to accede, stipulated that no BTC vehicle disposals were to be sold outside the group, unless for export or non psv use. This was a time of an ascendant public transport industry, and the BTC’s paranoia in respect of independent and even municipal operators surely cried out for some Freudian counselling. The LT Bristol Ks were passed on painlessly to Crosville, Lincolnshire and Brighton, Hove & District, and the Daimler D fleet, with preselective gearboxes and, for the most part, AEC 7.7 engines, could be kept a bit longer, but the Guys posed a problem. The Scottish Bus Group would certainly take some, but no other market within BTC existed. Several did go for export, but many ended up languishing in Cohen’s scrapyard at Feltham. Determined to get a better price for its Guys, LT turned to W. North of Leeds, who became the main purchaser of ex London buses for several years. Under pressure from all sides both within and without the bus industry, the BTC finally relaxed its embargo on sales outside the group in December 1952. However, before this, in November 1951, Edinburgh Corporation approached Guy Motors with a proposal to purchase 60 ex LT wartime Arab chassis that Guy would renovate and update for rebodying. Entirely happy to comply, LT found itself up against the BTC rule, but, not wishing to lose such a satisfactory unit price for these Guys, LT approached James Amos of SBG to intercede on its behalf. Despite being in different ownership camps, the SBG and Edinburgh Corporation had a harmonious relationship, particularly as Scottish Omnibuses stood to take over the Musselburgh tram route when it was abandoned. The ploy succeeded, though the buses were sold direct to Edinburgh, not via Guy Motors, on the strict understanding that they were to be scrapped when Edinburgh had finally finished with them. Edinburgh’s engineers were permitted to pick their own vehicles from the withdrawn fleet, and collected their chosen sixty from Edgware garage in April and May 1952. The bodies were removed and scrapped, and the chassis were overhauled and updated to such an extent that they were given new chassis numbers, and hence new registrations. The Gardner 5LW powerplant was retained, though 314 received a 6LW in 1963. New Duple H31/25R bodywork of lightweight construction was ordered, though the major part of the work was undertaken at Nudd Bros and Lockyer in Kegworth, Leicestershire, later to be renamed Duple Midland. These bodies were of a truly spartan specification, to be emulated later by the early examples of the MCW group Orion. The complete vehicle weighed only 6tons 14cwt 1qtr. No opening windows were originally provided, and the apparent full front lacked glazing round the bonnet, possibly to improve engine access, but equally probably to save weight. Originally, the front panels had a set of horizontal polished strips, but in 1958/9 a glass fibre front panel visually similar to the standard Leyland tin front was fitted. Opening windows to the saloons were provided at the same time. To be pedantic, the solitary preserved Arab above – Edinburgh kept its promise to scrap these buses upon their withdrawal between 1967 and 1969, and only No. 314 survives – has the original form of shiny stripwork applied over the later extended Leyland clone bonnet for its 6LW, and is thus not entirely accurate, but this is a minor point. It is good to see this preserved example of a truly remarkable fleet of buses. I must acknowledge that the bulk of this detail has been gleaned from Ken Blacker’s excellent comprehensive book “London’s Utility Buses” (published by Capital Transport).
Roger Cox
30/12/13 – 07:19
Got a bit complicated – but when was it ever any different? Nudd Bros was renamed Duple (Midland) and produced metal framed (mostly) buses. Willowbrook was then purchased, but strictly speaking remained separate. Eventually Yeates was taken on board. All three were Loughborough based and became the Duple (Midland) operation – Duple (Northern) being the former Burlingham. Nudd Bros, Burlingham and Yeates were dropped as marques but Willowbrook became the “face” of Duple (Midland). During this time, it built many double deck buses – mostly Regent Vs and Atlanteans. When Duple began to feel the pinch, Willowbrook was sold off as a going concern. [It produced it’s own designs from then on but increasingly it depended on work from NBC – often by under-cutting Duple and Plaxton on tenders. The quality was, by now, very suspect.]
David Oldfield
30/12/13 – 09:27
Nudd Brothers and Lockyer, were originally based at a small workshop in Chilwell, Nottinghamshire which was opposite the R.E.M.E 38 Central Workshop.
Roger Broughton
30/12/13 – 10:08
Thx, Roger, for fleshing out my more meagre story of LT’s dilemma in selling perfectly good buses (well chassis at least), but many had had their bodies ovehauled or had sound NCB-bodied Guys. I do recall that 314 was due to be converted to a tree-lopper and skulled around for some time waiting for it to be done. In the end, it never happened and the vehicle went for preservation, happily, for the story of these buses, especially 314’s, is really unusual and interesting.
Chris Hebbron
30/12/13 – 11:12
For anyone with an interest in Londons utility buses, I really must recommend the Capital Transport publication by Ken Blacker. “Londons Utility Buses”. It is an absolute gem, full of detail, superb photographs, and disposal references, and is a must for all who loved the “utilities” in any fleet! Alan Townsin’s TP book, “The Utilities”, is, of course, the complete reference work.
John Whitaker
30/12/13 – 14:46
I have been searching, but to no avail, for details of Edinburgh’s other utility rebuilds, with Alexander bodies. I believe these were all Daimlers, some of the CWG5 variety, but seem to remember reading that some were CWA6, and that they were “Gardnerised” upon rebuilding. This was, if correct, a most rare occurrence! Can any of you experts throw any light on this happening, or is my memory finally collapsing?!
John Whitaker
31/12/13 – 07:16
Am I correct in thinking that some of these were sold to the SBG and were lengthened and given saloon bodies or did I dream it?
Chris Hough
31/12/13 – 12:07
S.M.T did indeed rebuild utility Guys ex London Transport into 30ft single deckers.
Stephen Bloomfield
01/01/14 – 09:07
re my last comment: S.O.L. dismantled 23 ex London Transport Guy utilities. Each chassis was lengthened to 30ft and rebodied, 17 with S.O.L. B39F bodies and 6 with S.O.L. C35F bodies. As with the Edinburgh vehicles they were re-registered JWS 122 TO 131, KSC 918/919 and LSC 91 TO 101. 5 bus bodied vehicles went to S.O.L and the remainder to Highland Omnibuses. Also the first two vehicles rebuilt for Edinburgh received Duple bodies. Western S.M.T also rebodied a number of ex London Transport Utilities. As with the Edinburgh and S.O.L. vehicles they were reregistered. This information came from my own records and also from a recent publication by the PSV Circle about Guy Heavy Chassis.
Stephen Bloomfield
01/01/14 – 09:08
Stephen, I wasn`t aware SMT had body building facilities. Are you sure this work wasn`t done by Alexanders?
Jim Hepburn
01/01/14 – 12:38
S.O.L constructed the bodies at their Marine Works using Alexander frames. Marine Works subsequently became part of Scottish Bus Group Engineering in 1985. Marine Works also constructed 32 Duple Vista style bodies on to Bedford OB chassis. 20 of these vehicles were subsequently rebodied by Burlingham. The same works also constructed 60 Bedford OWBs to a design very similar to Duple. In 1955 S.O.L also bodied a single decker using Albion Claymore parts. Fleet number S1 LWS 926.
Stephen Bloomfield
01/01/14 – 13:20
Didn’t SMT also build utility bodies on Bedford OWB chassis during WW2? I think they were undistinguishable from the Duple and Mulliner versions.
Michael Hampton
02/01/14 – 08:27
David, Alan Townsin’s book on Duple doesn’t quite agree with your history of Duple Midland. Nudd Bros & Lockyer were the original Duple Midland, but they were at Kegworth, not Loughborough. New premises in Loughborough were obtained by Duple, and the operation was in the process of gradually moving there when Willowbrook were acquired, making three Midland factories in all. Rationalisation (largely glossed over) eventually resulted in only the Willowbrook factory remaining open, using Duple (Midland) as a badge name for some products. There is no mention of Yeates at all, and I have no reason to believe they were ever involved with Duple; as I recall it they simply stopped building bodies and remained as a dealer.
Peter Williamson
02/01/14 – 09:29
As I’ve said before, Peter, when you provide a thumbnail you provide the opportunity for mis-reading or mis-interpretation. Your accurate reading of Alan Townsin’s book doesn’t substantially disagree with my thumbnail. As for Yeates. I only recently discovered that myself – but cannot for the life of me find the source. They “closed” in 1964 and it could be a case of the “NCBs”. The Yeates company didn’t fold, they just closed the coachworks. When NCB did fold, the machinery and an amount of timber were sold to C H Roe. Possibly the same happened with Yeates – selling machinery and parts to Duple (Midland)/Willowbrook.
David Oldfield
03/01/14 – 12:51
Re David Oldfields comments about Yeates. The link below may shed more light on the closure of the coachbuilding section of Yeates :- //archive.commercialmotor.com/
Stephen Bloomfield
04/01/14 – 07:55
Thanks for this, Stephen. The link goes to the archive home page, but the issue in question is 4th October 1963. Duple took over Yeates body works (next door to Willowbrook) but not the staff, and agreed to complete outstanding work and continue to service and repair Yeates coachwork. I’m surprised the Duple book doesn’t mention this.
Peter Williamson
My fault that. Link fixed.
05/01/14 – 16:46
Roger, I had no idea of the spartan and lightweight nature of the Duple/Nudd-bodied Guys. The fully-fronted styling and ornamentation around the grille give the impression of something ‘a cut above’, whereas in reality it sounds like, as my late Grandma would have said, a case of “all outward show”. Sadly, as you mention, ECT persisted with this back to basics policy and followed on with the infamous Orion-bodied Titans. At least the beautiful livery was retained as a saving grace. David O, thanks for clarifying the situation re Duple, Nudd, Willowbrook, Yeates and Burlingham. As you say, it did get a bit complicated. Willowbrook’s quality certainly was suspect, following its sell- off. West Yorkshire were to have taken delivery of fifteen Willowbrook coach-bodied Leyland Leopards in 1981, but in the end only received six (2594-99). They were not well received, and passengers complained that the seats were very uncomfortable, especially on long-distance journeys. The overall finish appeared cheap and cheerful when compared to Plaxton’s products, and the Willowbrooks were soon down graded to dual-purpose vehicles. The remaining nine Leopard chassis were temporarily stored for some months at WY’s Harrogate depot, as Willowbrook were experiencing a backlog of work and hadn’t room to store them. The chassis were later despatched to Duple for bodying, becoming WY’s 2600-08. What a sad end for Willowbrook, and who would have guessed that Duple would eventually close its doors some years later?
Brendan Smith
06/01/14 – 07:59
Duple was a national giant when Plaxton was still a local upstart in the early fifties. At the same time Silver Service Darley Dale were receiving Regal IVs with Willowbrook coach bodies and a little later Black & White Motorways received slightly more modern versions of the same body on Reliances. These were full blown coaches – as were the later Viscount and Viceroys – and ranked among close seconds to Burlingham’s Seagull for style. [These were also Willowbrook names before Duple hi-jacked them.] Yes Brendan, with Duple and Willowbrook both, how are the mighty fallen.
David Oldfield
22/05/21 – 06:49
re Roger Cox’s comments on 314. I recall frequent meetings with it when it was first preserved and on many occasions afterwards. It had the 6LW removed and a 5LW installed, and at the same time the nose was restored to the original profile and a replica chrome front constructed as shown in the photograph. I have photos in my collection showing the 6LW ‘snout’ and the revised profile after it was re-engined.
Dr. George Fairbairn
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
07/02/22 – 06:33
I have a BSA Bantam D1 ?1952, Registration No. JWS 495. I have no paperwork for this vehicle and am trying to trace its origins in order to, hopefully, keep its Reg. I noticed, in the above photo, that the bus Reg. was JWS 594. I wonder if my Bantam and this bus were registered in the same area and if so, if there might be some existing County documentation on my BSA which I might be able to present to the DVLA in order to keep the Bantam’s original Reg.
John Boyd
08/02/22 – 06:12
Bus Lists on the Web shows a few JWS registered vehicles. The WS registration series was issued in Edinburgh. Edinburgh Corporation had four new buses (JWS 67-70) which are shown as new in July 1952. They also had about sixty former London Transport Guy Arab buses rebuilt which were re-registered JWS 581-640. JWS 581 is shown as registered in November 1952. This was followed by JWS 582-640 which are shown as registered between February and July 1953. Looking at the list it can be seen that these were delivered quite randomly therefore it can be said that the block of registrations would have been reserved in advance. To obtain the list of the above go to www.buslistsontheweb Search, Registration, Key ‘JWS’ to see the whole series Highland Omnibuses also had some single deck Guy rebuilds which became JWS 122-131. The exact months for these are not shown, only the years – 1952 (JWS 122-127) and 1953 (JWS 128-131).
Yorkshire Woollen District 1961 Ford Thames 570E Duple C41F
By the time this picture of a Yorkshire Woollen Thames was taken, it was in preservation. Never my favourite Yorkshire coaches, I found them a little slow and a lot noisy. One of them provided the only occasion I experienced where all passengers had to get off and walk up a steep hill which the Ford had failed to climb, though to be fair, the engine had developed a serious defect during the journey. I could never understand why ‘Yorkshire’ bought them – the rumour at the time was that Ford had thrown in a couple of Transit vans for the engineering department but I have no idea whether there was any truth whatsoever in this.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Bob Hunter
24/05/13 – 06:58
As I said elsewhere on this forum recently, there was a time in the early ’60s when these Fords were the (minority) vehicle of choice for major operators requiring a lightweight motor for lightweight (mainly private hire) duties. Although inevitably pressed into service at busy times for front line duties, SUT’s Fords (and the Bedfords acquired with operators) had their own front line duties – Fishing Trips. These were regular Sunday duties. Did it happen elsewhere? Ford only arrived on the scene in 1958, eventually replacing the Commer Avenger as the number two lightweight. Commer withdrew from the market in 1964 – as did Ford much later in 1985. Ford developed a strong fan base as a fast motor – in many ways overtaking Bedford who never quite regained the reputation gained by the OB and SB. The fact that these were inferior offerings to those of AEC, Bristol and Leyland – as well as Daimler and Guy – was immaterial. Quality independents sold their lightweights after about three years to keep a modern profile. The big boys – especially Yelloway – often kept their Bedfords for only one season, i.e. months, again often renting or leasing where they bought the AECs and Leyland.
David Oldfield
24/05/13 – 14:06
For some reason, Ford were very popular around Manchester in my time (1971 – 1980). Smiths, Stanley Spencer, Jacksons and Shearings all ultimately came together as Shearings – and were major operators of Fords with a three year replacement cycle. Holt, Fingland, a Davyhulme firm and another Altrincham firm added to the local Ford fleet, as did Fieldsend of Salford and Monk of Leigh. In the case of the above, some were minority AEC operators. [Was there a local dealer that, in the ignorance of youth, I did not know about?]
David Oldfield
24/05/13 – 14:07
I rode on this at last November’s Dewsbury open day and was surprised at the relative narrowness of the seats when compared to those in (say) a late 1940s half-cab coach. Having said that, I’ve not ridden in this type of Vega derivative since about 1974, but I’ve hardly gained any weight in the intervening years. The aisle was (probably) narrower than on a typical half-cab, so where did all the width go? Perhaps Duple was using cavity wall insulation on this model…
Neville Mercer
24/05/13 – 15:20
Interesting comment Neville. I rode on it at the Nocturnal rally at Halifax in October and my thoughts were exactly the same as yours, re the narrowness of the seats. I think the last time I rode on one would be the late sixties, a Bedford version and don’t remember the seats being as tight as on this. Perhaps the Ford version was narrower for some reason. I know the Ford and Commer versions were about 7 inches taller than the Bedford so perhaps they were narrower. There again, I’m afraid I have grown somewhat since the late 60’s!
Eric Bawden
24/05/13 – 17:33
They were only 8′ wide – but that wouldn’t explain why they felt narrower than a (7’6″) 1940s half-cab.
David Oldfield
24/05/13 – 18:12
North Western bought 8 Bedford SB3s for their Altrincham Coachways subsidiary in 1961 with identical bodywork. Five subsequently went to Melba Motors. When Altrincham Coachways was sold off and Melba Motors was absorbed into the main fleet, the vehicles were painted red and cream, were given North Western transfers and fleet numbers in the 1967 sequence and were employed for just a season. During their lives they were used on similar operations for the subsidiaries to those where NWRCC employed Tiger Cubs or even Leopards. As far as the infiltration of Fords into the various Bedford dominated Manchester coaching fleets of the period goes this was, as I understand it, due to an aggressive sales policy at a time when the Bedford OB and early 1950s Bedfords were time expired. With both Duple and Plaxton offering bodies on Fords almost identical to those on Bedfords, the price advantage that Ford offered resulted in a good number of orders.
Phil Blinkhorn
01/11/13 – 08:03
A similar Coach to the one illustrated is 525 BGW, which was new to Timpsons. I remember it from when it was owned by J.R.(Bob) Bazeley, an owner driver from Duston Northampton. Owner drivers were my favourite operators. Oh for the 1960s and 1970s, the PSV industry was of interest in those days.
Stemax1960
17/02/14 – 07:49
The first Ford Transits were built in 1965 so the suggestion that Ford threw in a couple of Transit Vans doesn’t seem to be possible.
David R
17/02/14 – 17:08
Like most rumours, it could have been apocryphal, or it might have been the Transit’s attractive predecessor, the Ford Thames 400E van.
Chris Hebbron
21/04/14 – 06:18
This old lady brought the A685 to a crawl on the hill up to Kirkby Stephen West at this weekend’s Brough bus rally. Must have been doing around 3 mph. It had the lowbridge Ribble Atlantean panting at its heels, which given that marque’s historical performance on the A591 southwards out of Keswick, is saying something!
David Brown
21/04/14 – 11:02
On Saturday 19/04/14 we had fuel problems due to dragging some dirt out of the tank while going up and down all the hills on the way to Kirkby Stephen I had 2 attempts on service Saturday and gave up but during the evening I managed to clean the filter bowl and make a new seal then on Sunday it ran ok back to going up between Kirkby Stephen East and West stations in second gear.
Simon Turner
30/06/14 – 11:20
Anyone wanting a ride on this I will be doing service at the Heath Common running day 13/07/2014
FVA 462D a Ford R192 with Duple C45F body, it was new to Hutchison of Overtown in 1966. She’s seen at the Wisley Rally on 5 April 2009, but I’ve never (knowingly) seen a vehicle in Hutchison livery. Is this the original livery of Hutchisons?
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies.
25/03/15 – 08:49
Hutchison’s livery was a rather striking two-tone blue (without any cream/white relief). Could the “Uckfield” destination blind give a clue to a later operator? I can remember this vehicle being advertised for sale in B&CP about ten years ago, wearing the same livery as in this photo’, so it’s been painted like this for quite a while.
Neville Mercer
25/03/15 – 16:22
Thank you, Neville. I had an idea it wasn’t Hutchison’s livery. I’ll continue to list the operator as “Unknown” in my database unless or until someone can identify the livery . . .
Pete Davies
28/03/15 – 09:44
I’ve been trawling through old copies of B&CP, and the ad appeared in several issues in 2010 (so not ten years ago!). At that time the vehicle was owned by Bob Hunt of Halesowen in the West Midlands.
Neville Mercer
28/03/15 – 14:38
Thanks for these latest thoughts, Neville. She appears to reside in the vicinity of Sheffield Park (not Sheffield as the PSVC 2012 listing has her!) the home of the National Trust gardens and the Bluebell Railway. The vehicle is totally anonymous in respect of fleet name and legal lettering, though I have found a reference to Hutchison amid the notes on Wishaw, which says the firm, with its blue and cream buses, sold out to FIRST some years ago. It suggests, then, that this might in fact be the original livery. Any more suggestions, anyone?
Pete Davies
29/03/15 – 17:26
To clarify my comments on Hutchison’s livery, at the time that this vehicle was delivered their coach colour scheme was two-tone blue. Some vehicles did have cream window surrounds, but the dark and pale blue were the predominant colours. The plainer pale blue/cream livery came in after the time of this particular machine unless they kept it for much longer than was their usual practice. Does anybody have a shot of it when in service with Hutchison?
Neville Mercer
29/03/15 – 18:48
FVA 462D is owned by Nick White of Sheffield (the Yorkshire town NOT Sheffield Park) as a preserved vehicle. There are numerous pics of it on Flickr including some recent ones of it with White’s fleet names, a personal livery applied by Mr White.
John Wakefield
30/03/15 – 07:59
How very interesting, John! So, what’s the UCKFIELD connection?
Pete Davies
30/03/15 – 09:29
A previous preservation owner Terry Smith lived at Uckfield, he sold it back to Bob Hunt 9/09 & it passed on again to White 8/10.
The site appears to be down but the coach appears on another: https://sites.google.com/site/ It seems to be their only coach and possibly they run other wedding transport too.
Joe
18/09/18 – 07:18
The point of the link I posted yesterday (but which won’t now come up) was that it showed the vehicle in what I presume was Hutchison colours – this was in response to Neville Mercer’s request for a shot of it when in service with Hutchison. Actually I think the shot showed it when it was Baird of Dunoon, but I’m pretty sure that it retained Hutchison livery. The same shot is here, but I can’t isolate it. https://www.google.co.uk/:
David Call
22/09/18 – 06:51
Re Hutchinsons Ford R192 FVA 462D. This is to my knowledge the only Ford R192 survivor with a Duple ‘Empress’ body. This is the same as a Bella Venture body as fitted on a Bedford VAM5 of which currently two roadworthy examples survive. Strange that ‘White Nostalgic Coaches’ web site is now no longer live. Strangely I can find no bus/coach company of that name registered in the Sheffield area on the Vehicle Operator/Licencing Service web site. Looks like it maybe being operated under another coach companies licence!
John Wakefield
22/07/19 – 05:23
Now resident with the South Yorkshire Transport Trust and not currently taxed.
Peter Williamson
25/07/19 – 07:05
Still owned by Nick White according to SYTT web site.
East Kent Road Car Co. Ltd. 1954 – 1957 Dennis Lancet UF – Guy Arab IV Duple C41C – Park Royal H33/28RD
East Kent’s first foray into underfloor engined vehicles occurred in 1951 when six Leyland Royal Tigers with ornate but rather uncertainly styled Park Royal coach bodies arrived in 1951. In 1953 came two more Royal Tigers, this time with well proportioned Duple C32C Ambassador bodies. Thirty more similar Duple coach bodies, the first six being C32C, the rest C41C, arrived in the following year, but this time mounted on Dennis Lancet UF LU2 chassis, East Kent having been an enthusiastic customer for the front engined Lancet in pre and early post war years. These coaches were registered HJG3 to 32 – East Kent did not use fleet numbers, but duplication of the number element of the registrations was always avoided. This Lancet UF order was the largest Dennis ever received, and the total production figure for the model was a mere 71. Factors influencing this outcome were the low driving position, the high pressure hydraulic braking system and the idiosyncratic Dennis ‘O’ type gearbox, a four speed crash unit with a preselective overdrive fifth. That gearbox had been a feature of the vertical engined Lancet and East Kent drivers were fully familiar with it, but, in the UF model, its remote location together with the engine halfway long the chassis made clean changes by ear difficult to achieve. Nevertheless, these Lancet UF coaches were very refined, fast and reliable, achieving a service life of up to 17 years. East Kent’s pre war standard double decker was the Leyland Titan TD4 and then the TD5. During the war East Kent was effectively in the front line, and the fleet suffered extensive damage through enemy action in the air and from artillery firing across the Channel from the French coast. Utility Guy Arabs were allocated to East Kent to meet vehicle losses and the rugged dependability of the marque so impressed the company that the Arab became the standard post war double deck chassis up to 1957. The BET preferred supplier system then oversaw the transfer of subsequent orders to the AEC Regent V, though three Bridgemasters were also bought, all with Park Royal bodywork. Thenceforward the melodious murmur of Gardner engine and Guy gearbox was supplemented by the atonal scream of the AEC transmission. MFN 896 was an example of the last batch of Guys, one of 20 Arab IVs of 1957 with Park Royal H33/28RD bodywork of outstandingly classic proportions. The first AEC Regent Vs that followed in 1959 were the PFN registered ‘Puffins’ which wore a full fronted version of the traditional Park Royal design, but thereafter the Regent body deliveries witnessed a decline from the sublime to the ridiculous by carrying the hideous Bridgemaster derived highbridge design that so offended Southampton Corporation that it quickly transferred its long standing patronage from Park Royal to East Lancashire. The ugliness of the design was accentuated later when these Regents were turned out in NBC poppy red. The picture was taken in Canterbury in 1967 when East Kent was still a BET company, and shows 1954 Lancet UF HJG 6, by then reseated to C41C, alongside 1957 Arab IV MFN 896, with another Arab of the same type to its right. These Arabs originally presented a full destination blind display, but by 1967 the aperture had been reduced to a single line. On the right hand edge of the photo are two of the ugly duckling Park Royal Regent Vs of 1961 onwards that eventually totalled 121 in the fleet.
I’m so pleased to see someone saying what I’ve long thought about the the later Regent Vs. I was a schoolboy in Folkestone in the early ’60s, and whereas the MFN Guys were my favourites and I quite liked the PFN Regents, I thought the later Regents were freaky and designed by somebody who would probably have done well in some other occupation. On the other hand I was pleased to see the back of the lowbridge PD1As; travelling upstairs on one of those could be a depressing experience.
Don
22/01/21 – 07:38
If it wasn’t for the Duple single decker I was all ready to say “Edinburgh Corporation”. What a similarity of livery colours, livery application, double decker bodywork, etc.
Bill
01/02/21 – 06:34
Just to say that this photo is taken at ‘The Garth’ in St Stephens Rd Canterbury.
This shot is from the Roger Cox gallery contribution titled “Smith’s Luxury Coaches Dennis Lancets” click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments. The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.
25/01/12 – 16:59
In 1960/61 I worked on a farm at Farley Hill near Arborfield, Berkshire. Most term time afternoons I saw an elderly Dennis Lancet coach travelling to the local school to collect pupils to return them to the REME Depot at Arborfield. I think this was a Mark 2 model as it had either a Dennis O4 or Gardner 5LW engine. Could this have been a Smiths coach on contract or perhaps owned by the Depot? Incidentally there were other Dennis’s locally. Mr Gray from Finchampstead removed our pigs in a well kept mid 50s Pax and in a field several miles from the farm (I am not sure exactly where) was a complete but apparently abandoned mid 30s Flying Pig gulley emptier. Do any of your correspondents remember the Lancet or the Pig and can say what happened to them? I left the area in 1961. I have recently discovered your website and wish to say what a wonderful find it was. Congratulations.
This shot is from the Roger Cox gallery contribution titled “Smith’s Luxury Coaches Dennis Lancets” click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments. The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.
This shot is from the Roger Cox gallery contribution titled “Smith’s Luxury Coaches Dennis Lancets” click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments. The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.
26/10/11 – 15:33
It could possible be me in EDP 820 R C Shackleford or J Thorne back in 1960
R C Shackleford
27/10/11 – 07:43
In response to R C Shackleford, here is a (hopefully) more detailed picture of the driver of EDP 820. I also attach another view of EDP 819 which shows the driver, who Mr Shackleford may be able to identify, helping his passengers off his coach at Hampton Court. I remain convinced that the Dennis Lancet III was one of the best engineered vehicles of its time.
Roger Cox
27/10/11 – 12:05
99 per cent its me driving other driver could be Bill Riealy deceased.
