Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Wallace Arnold Tours Leeds 1948 Leyland Tiger PS1 Duple C33F
This photo is another from my dusty collection of postcards bought many years ago, and recently extracted from the proverbial shoebox. This view of Wallace Arnold coach LUB 260 was taken by an unknown photographer sometime in the mid-1950s, and might possibly have been at their Paignton depot (confirmation would be appreciated please). Amazingly, on the back of this photo I have written its subsequent history, although where I got the information from is a mystery, On being withdrawn by WA in 1958 it went to Ward Brothers of Lepton (Huddersfield). In 1960 it was sold to Mitchell’s of Luthermuir, presumably to join their existing fleet of red and cream PS1 coaches – see this link – Its last known move was to contractors Haley of Cleckheaton (West Yorkshire) in 1962, and was presumably scrapped soon after. Quite a well-travelled coach even after its glorious WA days.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Paul Haywood
08/07/12 – 10:15
Looks like the frontage of Royston depot – but I stand to be corrected . . .
Philip Rushworth
08/07/12 – 10:15
There’s a picture of this coach in “Holidays By Coach” an illustrated history of Wallace Arnold, by Stewart J Brown. The caption states it was rebuilt with a full front in 1954.
In the same book is a photo of Royston depot taken in 1948 and there are detail differences in the asbestos style cladding to the building.
Eric Bawden
09/07/12 – 07:13
Yes R. T. Haley of Hillside Works Hunsworth Cleckheaton. I remember them having this coach painted bright yellow and as stated fitted with a full front. I don’t think the company is still in business.
Philip Carlton
10/07/12 – 06:55
Anybody have a photo of LUB 260 after rebuilding to full front?
Eric Bawden
10/07/12 – 13:46
The full front coach would surely never have looked as good as the original did. What a great photograph…I really enjoy looking at these old buses and coaches…and wishing I had a time machine!!
Norman Long
11/07/12 – 08:16
Too true Norman – these full front conversions of the early 1950s always looked “unhappy”, and the process turned the interiors of the driving cabs into a nightmare of noise and condensation – and as with all these “consultant led” schemes fooled nobody – the public aren’t dense, but sadly even today operators seem to think that they are – age disguised re-registrations etc – bah humbug !! Samuel Ledgard had a batch of truly beautiful looking PS1/Duple half cabs in 1948 – classic is the word – and had them “full fronted” – ever after they looked simply awful and caused we devotees much displeasure.
Chris Youhill
11/07/12 – 12:35
Yet again, I find myself agreeing with Ebenezer Youhill. With the possible exception of the “Regent V” version, I always preferred exposed radiators as well.
David Oldfield
12/07/12 – 07:55
I’m always glad of the support of our wise colleague David Cratchett Oldfield in these matters – I might just consider relenting my nature and let him have Christmas Day off with pay this year !!
Chris Youhill
12/07/12 – 11:21
…..with a whole goose, not just a pigeon!
David Oldfield
15/07/12 – 17:10
LUB 260 rebuilt with full front by Wilkes and Meade to Plaxton design in 1/54.
Dave Williamson
20/03/15 – 09:24
Thank you for all these wonderful comments. Immensely useful to me as I write about my childhood memories of going to Blackpool Illuminations in the 1950s. I just wish there was a shot of the inside of the coach as I can’t remember where you stored your mackintosh and bag, did they have overhead racks or nets? Anyway, lovely stuff and great memories, thanks.
Regarded by many as one of the most handsome pre war coach bodies, if my information is correct, Wakefields Motors had four of these C30F Duple Coronations. FT 45?4/7 – 104/7, from 1937, were on a Leyland Tiger TS8 chassis.
Photograph by “unknown” – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
They were followed in 1938 by another four FT 49?? 108/11 but this time they were AEC Regals. The four Leylands spent some of the war years in Ireland on hire to the Northern Ireland Transport board. As a young boy of eight, I can remember them still being at Percy Main when the Beadle rebodied AEC’s arrived in 1952 & 53, they were eventually replaced by the Weymann Fanfares of 1955. I know many quality pre war chassis were being rebodied at that time, but I don’t know if these were. For those who don’t remember real money, the board at the front of the AEC, two shillings, 2/- is 10p.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye
14/04/15 – 06:59
The AEC is standing at the top of South Parade outside Quickfalls shop in Whitley Bay, who acted as booking agent for Wakefields. After picking up here, the coach would then pick up at Cullercoats, Tynemouth, North Shields and Wallsend. When I was quite young, my parents took me on a half-day tour to Rothbury and Cragside, for which one of the pre-war half-cab coaches was provided, although I don’t recall if it was an AEC or Leyland. For a tour like this going north, it would start in Wallsend with Whitley Bay as the last picking up point. The route then taken would be via Seaton Delaval and the A192 to Morpeth and then I think via Longhorsley, returning via Scotsgap or vice versa. On the return journey, there would be a break at Morpeth. Rothbury was a place we enjoyed visiting, and we used at one time or another all three tour operators from Whitley Bay, the others being Priory Coaches and United. Priory’s booking agent and pickup point was at the foot of North Parade, and as far as I can recall, they provided a Bedford SB coach. United, of course used the Bus Station and regrettably, provided a bus for the tour, admittedly an almost new Bristol LS5G, but still a bus, which did nothing to improve my parents low opinion of United as a tour operator. On the whole, we much preferred Wakefields, and over the years travelled on most of their day and half-day tours.
John Gibson
15/05/15 – 06:36
Just a shot in the dark on behalf of a friend. Did Wakefields by any chance have a livery of green and cream, presumably before WW2, and did they ever have any of the Northern GT “SE4 or SE6 saloons ?? Any pertinent information would be much appreciated thanks.
Chris Youhill
15/05/15 – 11:40
Chris, this is a round the houses way of saying, I don’t know, but my records would suggest that if the livery was green, it would be pre 1929. Wakefields Motors Limited, were founded in 1919, their depot was in Church Way North Shields. At a date I have not been able to establish, they became a subsidiary of The London North Eastern Railway Company. In 1929, they bought Archer Bros of North Shields, this increased the fleet to 43, 31 buses and 12 coaches, also in 1929, L.N.E.R purchased an interest in the NGT group, the name was retained, but Wakefields adopted NGT livery, and all new vehicles were numbered as part of the Tynemouth & District fleet, but they had a ‘W’ prefix. In 1933, NGT opened a new depot at Percy Main, all T&D and Wakefields vehicles were rehoused there, the remaining Wakefields vehicles were also renumbered. The Wakefields depot was sold off, as was the T&D depot in Suez Street North Shields, but the depot in John Street Cullercoats became the NGT group body and paint shop. Percy Main had eight NGT/SE6 vehicles, FT 3478/3482 – 82/86 from 1935; and FT 3903/3905 – 90/92 from 1936; to the best of my knowledge, none of them carried the Wakefields name. Until 1970, the name was in continuous use on some service buses, and all Percy Main based coaches, in 1975 all P/M vehicles were renamed Northern.
Ribble Motor Services 1936 Leyland Tiger TS7 Duple C31F
FV 5737, Leyland Tiger TS7, was new to W C Standerwick of Blackpool in 1936. In the post-war years, she was transferred across to the Ribble fleet and given this Duple C31F body in 1950. In the renumbering system, she became 753. She’s seen at the Winkleigh Open Day on 7 October 2012.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
14/02/15 – 13:03
It would appear that the petrol engine was changed for an oil engine at the same time as the re-body. It still kept its starting handle but I doubt it was ever used I have heard you could do yourself some serious injury if you didn’t get it quite right.
Trevor Knowles
14/02/15 – 17:14
These had been rebodied with 8ft. wide bodies, resulting in a nice looking coach, just spoilt by having to retain the original 7ft 6in. wide axles and resulting in the wheels being set back inside the wings and wheelarches. I suppose since prewar chassis were never built to the greater width, the wider axles would not be available as they would be with postwar models.
John Stringer
14/02/15 – 18:21
Trevor, I have heard a similar story about fairly serious consequences arising if the user of the starting handle didn’t keep out of its way! Yes, John, it does skew the appearance a bit, but I suppose the other side of the coin is that the wheels are further into the mudguards, so there’s less of a “splash factor” for other road users to suffer.
Pete Davies
16/02/15 – 06:48
I served a 6 year apprenticeship at Ribble main workshop Frenchwood Preston till about 1961. I do remember foreman Sid Liptrot using a heavy chain to start a diesel Tiger, must have been mad. The petrol engine Cheetah sounded like a Rolls Royce. Probably best company in UK.
Raymond Hollebone
24/09/19 – 04:22
New in 1935 and rebodied in 1948 (I should know I spent my childhood on 753 rallying every weekend).
The recent posting of the Edinburgh Guy Arab re-bodied by Nudd Brothers & Lockyer reminded me of this batch of saloons delivered to Southdown in 1954. This batch of Leyland Tiger Cubs were numbered 620-639 registered MUF 620-639 with B39F seating layout which oddly had a single N/S front seat and 2 pairs at the rear with a central emergency door and a mixture of half drop and sliding ventilators as well as unusual, for Southdown, curved seat top rails. These were new at a time when large numbers of parcels were carried, so behind the cab there was a floor to ceiling compartment about the size of a wardrobe fitted with shelving for carrying the parcels at the rear of which was a sliding door into the saloon, the drivers only other entry was the sliding door to the outside. Five very similar but by no means identical Tiger Cubs were delivered in 1955 numbered 640-644 registered OUF 640-643/PUF 644. They were very light and pleasant to drive and I always thought that the Tiger Cub had the best brakes of any Leyland model of that era.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave
06/02/14 – 08:59
Reminds me of the 1950’s Devon General Weymann Reliances. These are the only other underfloor front loaders I can remember with a separate cab door.
David Oldfield
06/02/14 – 16:06
I thought that some of the early BMMO built S types had a cab door.
Stephen Bloomfield
06/02/14 – 16:49
Huddersfield specified enclosed cabs with an offside hinged cab door on all its UF purchases up to and including the 1963 “A” registered pair of Reliances (23 and 24)
Ian Wild
06/02/14 – 17:37
Bradford also had two AEC Reliances (501 and 502) with offside cab doors.
Stephen Bloomfield
07/02/14 – 06:49
Manchester Corporation’s Leyland Royal Tigers 20 – 23 and “Leyland” Aberdonians 40 – 45 all had the offside cab door, with a fixed partition between the cab and the platform. I think East Yorkshire also had some saloons with this feature.
Don McKeown
07/02/14 – 06:50
Your mention of parcels, D Dave, reminds me of when I lived in Southsea, 1956-76, and the GPO would hire Southdown coaches to deliver Xmas parcels around the streets. With modern traffic parking down the road I lived in, I doubt if a coach could get along it now!
Chris Hebbon
07/02/14 – 18:47
Maidstone & District had a batch of Harrington/Commer integral saloons with an o/s cab door. Re GPO use, can recall M&D buses and coaches hired for Xmas deliveries many many years ago.
Malcolm Boyland
08/02/14 – 08:23
Here is a photograph of the cab of an East Yorkshire Tiger Cub which had C H Roe bodywork.
Ken Wragg
08/02/14 – 09:49
Interesting that many of the early underfloor saloons had these enclosed cabs. M&D’s certainly did but they subsequently went over to the near standard practice of just using a low waist high enclosure. In today’s unpleasant society, the driver sadly needs the security of an assault proof working place but that wouldn’t have been so in the 50’s or 60’s.
Malcolm Boyland
25/03/14 – 15:27
I assume the requirement for the cab to have an emergency exit is still in place. On half cabs the side window over the engine is usually the emergency exit. If you can’t get out if the bus goes on its offside, then there needs to be a second way out. I guess that is the reason for the sliding door at the back of the Roe bodywork in the picture.
Peter Cook
26/03/14 – 06:25
I remember the prosaic message in the cabs of the Routemasters In the event of a fire get out.!!!
Philip Carlton
26/03/14 – 09:30
Frank Muir once remarked that, in all Emergency Instructions, item number two was always more important than number one. Thus:- In Case of Fire 1. Notify your superior officer 2. Jump out of the window.
Roger Cox
09/08/17 – 06:36
From what Diesel Dave says about this beauty and the 15xx’s I get the impression our formative bus years were pretty much the same (KK 48848?). The later 640-4 were still around when I began driving but, certainly as far as the driver’s compartment went, they looked as though they’d been rescued from a chicken farm. However, for one brief interlude 638 came our way and what a dream. Somewhere along the line it had acquired one of the more modern grey enamel dashboards and could be driven with finger tip control. Is there anything on the road today that modern drivers will look back on with such fondness and respect?
Nick Turner
17/05/21 – 17:04
What a lovely bus I have an amazing picture of MUF 639 in the idyllic backdrop of Poynings circa 1957 possibly, the bus is central to the picture numbered route 128 on its rural route to Henfield Railway Station via Devils Dyke and Small Dole such an amazing picture does this bus still survive. My dad drove for the Thames Valley from 1949 to 1986.
Edward Thomas and Son 1961 Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/2 Duple C41F
This is a Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/2 with a Duple Donington C41F body that was bought initially for staff transport by the Shell Oil company in 1961. It went to Edward Thomas of West Ewell, near Epsom, Surrey in November 1968, who in turn disposed of it in December 1974 to Trevor Brown, proprietor of the Tillingbourne Bus Company. In December 1975 it was sold to Hargreaves of Newbury. 6217 PU is seen here in Tillingbourne ownership, though still wearing the livery of Edward Thomas, parked in the yard beside Gomshall railway station that then served as Tillingbourne’s operating base, to the chagrin of Guildford Borough Council who consistently pressured the company to find other premises. I always liked the Tiger Cub model, though the five speed constant mesh gearbox required proper respect for clean changes, and the Donington body (this is the second version, still with shallow windows), together with the Elizabethan and Britannia, represented Duple UF bodywork design at its best. Thereafter in the 1960s Duple abandoned all restraint and went completely downhill in my view, initially by adopting a bulbous front end derived from the front engined models, and later going completely overboard with a mish mash of uncoordinated styling features embellished with a truly ghastly, garish, Detroit ‘inspired’ front grille. Even when the firm finally pulled itself together and adopted the Plaxton clone Dominant design it was still just a pale imitation of the Scarborough original.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
13/06/16 – 17:17
Whilst not the best image and taken from my slide , I can attach a picture of 6217PU repainted into Tillingbourne colours and seen in Shere village.
Keith Newton
14/06/16 – 06:07
When did the Tillingbourne livery change from the maroon? I seem to remember, from using Guildford bus stations through to as late as 1959 that their buses and Brady,s Brown Buses were actually quite close in colour/hue.
John Lomas
14/06/16 – 11:16
Does anybody have a picture of this in Shell Oil livery? If it was in the same corporate colours as their tanker fleet it might be quite attractive.
Neville Mercer
14/06/16 – 17:43
On 30 September 1970, Trevor Wilcox Brown of Grayshott bought the Tillingbourne Valley operations and its GS buses From the Trice family that had started the business on Easter Bank Holiday in 1924. At first the maroon livery and Tillingbourne Valley trading name continued, though slightly changed, but in April 1972, GS MXX 364 appeared in a new livery of blue with a white roof and a yellow relief band below the windows. The company became the Tillingbourne Bus Company and the fleetname, in a bolder style, was reduced to just ‘Tillingbourne’. This then became the fleet standard but, over subsequent years until the company’s abrupt demise in April 2001, the livery underwent several changes with yellow generally becoming the predominant colour. Back to the Tillingbourne Tiger Cubs. The company had three of these with Donington bodywork, the one shown above plus two from Pennine of Gargrave, 6108 WU and 9712 WX. A fourth Tiger Cub in the fleet, VCH 172, had a Willowbrook DP41F body, and came from Watson’s and Goodman’s & Tours, t/a Ford of Gunnislake. Here is a shot of 9712 WX pictured during one of my Saturday driving stints with it on the 450 Farley Green – Guildford route in 1974. This vehicle had the final and in my opinion the best version of the Donington body, with deeper saloon windows that matched the height of the windscreen. It was a very pleasant vehicle to drive.
Roger Cox
15/06/16 – 07:10
The recent picture of 6217 PU made me (excitedly) put pen to paper and before I knew it I have written a bit of a personal memoir of the Shell Refining private bus service that operated in the 1950s until the mid 1960s. I am afraid I have strayed well of the mark for an answer to the question what colour was it when new – which is what kicked off my thoughts. Perhaps you might like to start it as a new subject though it is a bit short on bus detail. I was after all, only eight when 6217 PU was new. I have referenced some other local activities too. All photos are from my collection and the one of 838 HNO was taken by the late Peter Snell who gave me a copy years ago.
Alpine Travel 1958 Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/2 Duple Britannia C41F
Photographed in Llandudno some ten years ago is this Hughes Bros Alpine Tours Tiger Cub WND 477, which started life in August 1958 with Spencer Tours of Manchester. This firm merged with Smiths of Wigan which later became part of Shearings. On my several visits to Llandudno over past years it has always been this coach waiting in readiness for its Great Orme trip, and I have never encountered its fellow Tiger Cub BCJ 710B with Harrington Grenadier C45F coachwork of July 1964.
Belle Vue Coaches 1951 Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/15 Duple Roadmaster ????
As most people visiting this site will know, Dinky made far more examples of the model Duple Roadmaster than Duple ever managed to make of the real thing. Most of the real ones went to Standerwick and, so far as I am aware, there are no survivors from that batch. There area few others about, however, and I captured this one, LOE 300 on Royal Tiger PSU1/15 chassis, during the Fleetwood Tram Sunday event on 15 July. The PSV Circle volume on preserved buses shows her to have started life in 1951 with Jackson of Castle Bromwich. She’s now in the care of Walsh (Belle Vue Coaches) in the Manchester area and may or may not show RSK 615 as the registration. “Not” in this view! I’m sure someone out there can answer this, but I’ve only ever seen the Roadmaster on a Royal Tiger chassis. Were they ever fitted to other makes?
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
21/08/12 – 16:29
RSK 615 isn’t assigned to any vehicle at present.
Roger Broughton
21/08/12 – 16:30
To clarify the note above, she shows Belle Vue Coaches on the back panel, but PSVC shows her as with Walsh.
David, Thank you for that. I can see some resemblance, but my experience of the body design – Standerwick and Dinky Toys, of course, plus this one – shows several differences. Is it, perhaps, a Mk1 and a Mk2, or other modification, in the way the Seagulls had variations and “Mk” numbers during their production?
Pete Davies
21/08/12 – 20:32
SK is a Caithness (Inverness) registration mark, so if that’s the original number, could it have started life with the SMT group ‘Highland Scottish’ as it later became?
Ronnie Hoye
21/08/12 – 20:33
I saw this lovely machine at the Leyland event, but how much nicer would it look if repainted into the dark blue with a red roof livery it wore while with its main owner, South Notts of Gotham, who bought it from Jackson at a fairly early stage in its working career? Did any other Roadmasters survive to the present day?
Neville Mercer
21/08/12 – 20:34
Two of these coaches survive. The other is MAL 310, a South Notts PSU1/11 new in 1951. South Notts also owned LOE 300 for a time.
Philip Lamb
22/08/12 – 06:10
Livery makes such a difference, Pete – as does the fact that the Guy is photographed in black and white and the Leyland is, literally, in glorious colour. Lighter shades tend to flatter – which is no doubt why large operators of this era used “reverse” livery for coaches.
David Oldfield
22/08/12 – 06:11
The registration number RSK 615 is almost certainly an age related DVLA allocation thus inferring that the LOE 300 registration has or may have been lost at some stage. If it is being driven wearing LOE 300 then hopefully the number has been regained replacing the age related one.
Richard Leaman
22/08/12 – 06:11
I wonder how many of these Jackson of Castle Bromwich had, because South Notts purchased two of them, LOE 300 and LOE 900, both in 1957. As Neville says, South Notts were the main operator, having obtained around thirteen years service out of them. Together with their own MAL 310 purchased new and MRR 974 with Leyland bus body, it was quite an impressive fleet of Royal Tigers for a small independent!
Chris Barker
22/08/12 – 10:23
Pete. If you scrutinise the two photographs carefully for differences: (i) Livery (ii) Mouldings (iii) Position of emergency door (central on Guy) partly causing (iv) different windows (pairs on Leyland put two singles in middle of Guy) Drop ventilators on Guy and Hoppers on Leyland. Mouldings include front panel on Leyland for spare wheel. Question for everyone. Hoppers? How common was this in 1950. Still the same body, though. Similar difference could be seen on other bodies, including later Duples – in particular between bodies on different chassis.
David Oldfield
22/08/12 – 11:08
Thank you, David.
Pete Davies
22/08/12 – 14:47
As Chris B says, LOE300 spent approx 13 years with South Notts; it then passed to the British Legion (later Royal British Legion) at Gotham who kept it for many more years.
My photo shows it on Queens Drive, Nottingham in 1988/9, towards the end of its time with them. How nice to see it preserved and active again.
Bob Gell
23/08/12 – 07:13
Good bit of parking or pioneering low-step access for the old lads?! More seriously, I thought the (unavoidably) off-centre Leyland badge had been added as a restoration trimming, but apparently not.
Joe
23/08/12 – 07:14
Now that’s a classy livery, well suited to the beading. Presumably this was is South Notts colours?
Paul Haywood
23/08/12 – 07:15
Another unique point about the South Notts trio of Roadmasters is that the one they bought new, MAL 310 was 7ft 6in wide, whereas these two were 8ft wide.
Chris Barker
23/08/12 – 10:48
Regarding MAL 310 being a 7ft 6in wide vehicle (and a bus rather than a coach) – this probably has to do with the routes it was planned for. I don’t ever remember seeing single deckers on the Nottingham – Gotham – Loughborough main line service. Single deckers operated the Nottingham – Kegworth village service with quite a few narrow roads and tight bends. Most were short workings to Barton in Fabis or Thrumpton, and the others included or omitted West Leake and/or Kingston on Soar according to market day, the state of the moon, and whether there was an R in the month – a typical rural bus service of the 50s. From memory, I think it was previously run with conductor operated half-cabs.
Stephen Ford
23/08/12 – 10:48
There’s a nice colour shot of LOE 300 in South Notts livery in Malcolm Keeley’s excellent book “Midland Red Days”. I didn’t know about it’s time with the British Legion, so thanks for that photograph – she looks rather nice in blue and yellow! Also thanks to Philip Lamb for reminding me that MAL still exists. My personal favourite livery on this type was that of Bamber Bridge MS who had two of them in red and black, one a narrow 7 ft 6 in, the other an 8ft wide version. It’s about time a diecast manufacturer tackled this one again – it’s been a long time since the 1/72 scale Dinky Toy and there are lots of good liveries available even though it was a comparatively rare prototype.
Neville Mercer
23/08/12 – 14:19
Some interesting thoughts from Stephen. There was an oddity reported on the BBC news channel several weeks ago about a market day service in the Milton Keynes area. It operates only on the FIFTH Tuesday in the month, so maybe three or four times a year. Why, the reporter was asking, not EVERY Tuesday? In the Nottingham and Gotham area, I’d be surprised if the mischief makers among the local bus fans did not spend time amending the signs to BARTON IS FAB . . . And Thrumpton, that’s where the fire brigade in the children’s television show was based, wasn’t it?
Pete Davies
24/08/12 – 08:15
There’s also a train that goes only one way (I believe from Stockport to Stalybridge) and doesn’t return. I think that is only when there’s a Q in the month as well!
David Oldfield
24/08/12 – 08:15
Alan Townsin’s Duple book confirms that the Guy had a later version of the Roadmaster body than LOE 300, after what he calls “some tidying up”. The hopper windows were standard on the early models, later reverting to the more usual full-drop type seen on the Guy. Red & White Group were the biggest Roadmaster customer, the parent company taking 1 Leyland and 14 Guys, with a further 7 Guys for the United Welsh fleet.
Peter Williamson
24/08/12 – 08:32
South Notts own Royal Tiger/Duple Roadmaster (fleet number 42, MAL 310) had 45 seats. This was one more than the Royal Tiger with the Leyland bus body (fleet number 45, MRR 974) that seated 44 due to the emergency exit being in the rear wall of the body. The Royal Tiger badge was fixed in the centre of the front panels on 42, rather than offset to the nearside as with 63 (LOE 900) and 64 (LOE 300). Numbers 63 & 64 both seated 41 passengers. Sorry, Neville – South Notts painted the roof maroon on their buses.
Michael Elliott
24/08/12 – 12:29
Michael, I lived in Nottingham for several years and can assure you that South Notts COACHES used to have a red roof. You’re thinking of their double-decker buses which did indeed carry maroon as their top colour. The red roof on coaches seems to have been abandoned on new vehicles or repaints after about 1960, but the maroon roof on ‘deckers continued until the time of the NCT take-over.
Neville Mercer
25/08/12 – 07:26
Thanks Neville for your info on South Notts coach livery pre circa 1960. I’m a ‘native’ of Nottingham and we moved to Clifton in 1953 (when I was three) so over the years I’ve been very familiar with South Notts buses. Certainly South Notts double deckers had maroon tops and wings and initially also had cream lower deck window surrounds but, from my memory, this was soon dropped and blue window surrounds with a cream cant rail and waist rail (depending on whether the vehicle concerned had a waist rail) adopted instead. My memories of South Notts single deck buses (principally the Royal Tiger bus, known as ‘the coffin’) is that these had maroon tops also. I have to say that these are memories from age nine/ten when I started to take a ‘more informed view’ on buses. On the question of the ‘Roadmasters’ my memories are of them with maroon tops, as are my memories of the Bedford OBs and the Leyland PS1/Duple ‘A’ type, which latterly became a snow plough. Later coaches, such as the Bedford SBs and VAMs had a livery incorporating two shades of blue. By the way keep up the good work with the ‘Independents’ series of books. I look forward to treating myself to a copy of the North Wales volume.
Michael Elliott
25/08/12 – 10:56
Thanks for the kind words, Michael. On the South Notts front you’ve made me doubt myself enough to look through a few picture books to check the coach livery. As well as the previously mentioned shot of LOE 300 in Malcolm Keeley’s book (definitely a bright red top!) I’ve also found two shots of South Notts OB/Duple Vistas with the red roof. It’s a pity that they didn’t continue with this livery variation into the 1960s/70s – by the time I lived in Nottingham the coaches were all-over blue which did them no favours.
Neville Mercer
26/08/12 – 07:40
During 1934 both Barton and South Notts, as associated companies, introduced maroon roofs wings to all their vehicles as a form of corporate identity. Barton having held a 50% share in South Notts since 1929. Maroon was replaced by a light shade of blue on single deckers during 1961 and with the repainting of 117 in 1986 to celebrate 60 years of operation the maroon was dropped, but retaining indigo and cream as the original livery. This was so well received it was decided to standardize this on their double deckers and several were so treated. Royal Tiger No.42 MAL 310 was a dual purpose vehicle, not a bus and was used on private hire and often hired to Barton for their express services. The two ex Jackson Royal Tigers in fact stood in Barton’s Chilwell garage yard for several months and at least one (No.64 LOE 300) ran in service with South Notts in Jackson’s green/grey livery.
Alan Oxley
11/10/12 – 07:22
I was surprised to read in Neville Mercer’s post (above) that of the two Roadmasters with Bamber Bridge Motor Service one was 7’6″ wide and the other 8′, since they were both from the same batch (of three?) new to Scout Motor Services, and it has always been my understanding that the entire batch were 7’6″. Any more bids?
David Call
17/01/15 – 06:17
This bus is part of our vintage collection at BelleVue Manchester Ltd. Any questions you may have I can forward on to The Walsh Bros. Kenny Walsh is the maintenance Director at BelleVue and he is one half of the Walsh Bros who perform restorations on a variety of classics.
Donna Thompson
01/06/15 – 07:22
The South Notts Worldmasters had maroon tops. I went on one to Dudley Zoo on a school trip – my first solo outing. It was similar to Barton’s maroon as there had always been connections between the two companies. They often did the Saturday services to Gotham and Thrumpton etc from Huntingdon St bus station as well as private hire and duplicates. P54 Malcolm Keeley – Midland Red Days does indeed show LOE 300 with a maroon roof exactly the same as the two South Notts Leyland buses behind. This is probably a Saturday with the Leyland PDs doing a short working to Gotham and the regular service to Loughborough (18-30 departures?). The Thrumpton bus would turn off before Gotham and was usually lightly loaded. Alan Oxley’s South Notts book (1985) is one of my cherished possessions and I would highly recommend it if you can get hold of a copy. Oxford Diecast models intend to make a 1/76th scale model of a Worldmaster in Belle Vue Coaches livery-this one? More details will emerge.
David O’Brien
02/06/15 – 07:06
David, hate to be pedantic but these are Duple ROADmasters, not Worldmasters. Worldmaster was a brand-name used by Leyland for export versions of their Royal Tiger chassis. Also, while I accept that most South Notts vehicles had maroon roof trim, nobody has addressed the issue of bright red being shown in various published photographs detailed above. I’m aware of the “false colour” which many early types of slide film produced (as is anybody who has bought a book about Ribble!) but the examples given are beyond that. If the colours in the photo’s mentioned are wrong then I suspect that they were altered during production of the books in question. Anybody got any thoughts?
Neville Mercer
03/06/15 – 06:21
That is a valid point, Neville. Not only did different makes of colour film, slide and negative, give greatly varying results, often exacerbated by sloppy laboratory processing, but we now exist in an age of Photoshop and similar computer programs that allow image modification to a degree way beyond the old darkroom techniques. I confess to using the modern methods to get a reasonable result from my elderly slides, and I very much doubt if most published pictures are truly accurate in colour rendition. One does try to get it right, but, perhaps, our increasingly high mileage memories are probably not the best judges of the original liveries. One would really need a paint chart to match the most important colours of the original scheme for a true result.
Roger Cox
03/06/15 – 06:22
To answer my own query (11/10/12) it would appear that the three Scout Roadmasters were a mixture of 7’6″ and 8’0″. BLOTW has DRN 355 as 7’6″ and DRN 356/7 as 8’0″, but the Peter Gould fleetlist gives DRN 357 as 7’6″. All the available evidence indicates that the Peter Gould version is correct, if this is the case then the two which went to BBMS were indeed one of each width. In respect of three Leyland-bodied PD2s new to Scout at much the same time (DRN 364-6), Peter Gould has the first two as 8’0″ wide and the third as 7’6″. BLOTW gives them all as 8’0″, but given the mixture of Roadmaster widths I suppose it’s quite possible that the PD2s were mixed width also.
David Call
28/10/15 – 07:13
Yes, colour films of the era each had their own characteristics: principally, Kodachrome (perhaps the most widely-used colour films at the time) produced vivid representations of reds. Other films were more subdued (and perhaps more realistic). Maroon appearing as bright red: I can believe it!
Allen
28/03/16 – 17:16
“SK” was indeed a Caithness CC registration originally, but with so few registrations issued by this authority, registration marks BSK to YSK were allocated by DVLA to various VROs throughout UK for “age-related” re-registrations between 3/90 and 3/92.
Andy
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
23/08/20 – 05:26
LOE 300 was sold in 11/18 to James Baile of Nassington. His mother runs a wedding and conference venue Prebendal Manor, Nassington, pics of it appear on their FB page, it was being used as an office in April this year! https://www.facebook.com/ so not sure what his plans are for it. It won’t do it much good if left outside!
Pennine Motor Services 1962 Leyland Leopard Duple DP41F
Here is a photo of 5895 YG, Leyland Leopard with Duple body, in the fleet of Pennine Motor Services, then in Gargrave. I took the photo in Morecambe in June 1970. Note the SALOPIA vehicle alongside. This vehicle was the last of four of this style, the other three being on Tiger Cubs UWX 277, 6108 WU and 9712 WX, so close inspection shows subtle changes over the years. The next new addition was 240 CWY, which Roger Cox posted elsewhere on the site a while ago.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
15/08/12 – 08:06
Herewith the conundrum as to what constitutes a C or a DP. Yelloway thought they were too bus like and only bought one batch but most things, including the entrance door, make this look more like a C than a DP. The same thing befell the Sheffield Transport Leopard/Burlinghams which were DP because they were based on a modified bus design rather than the Seagull – but they were really just as much coaches as their Weymann Fanfare and ECW contemporaries.
David Oldfield
15/08/12 – 11:34
Interesting point, David. From an operational point of view, the issue of whether a vehicle was a C or a DP generally depended on three factors: use, seating and livery. As OMO became more prevalent, provincial operators realised that front entrances enabled relatively easy and cheaper downgrading, especially if the eventual fate of new vehicles was considered when they were bought. As for external appearance, a sensitive compromise was needed: too bus like, and passengers might feel they were being offered second best if they expected a coach; too coach like could mean problems displaying stage carriage destinations later in life.
Roy Burke
15/08/12 – 11:55
I’m not sure if it was still known as the ‘Donnington’ by this time but it definitely improved with age (like we do!) When it was first introduced, it had too many shallow side windows, perhaps a throwback to the old ‘Roadmaster’ design. This one, with just five deeper side windows is a great improvement and looks very nice. Yelloways were of the original design which would explain why they didn’t like them!
Chris Barker
15/08/12 – 14:47
The screen and front dome of the Donnington were shared with contemporary Willowbrook Viscount (cf Devon General). [Interesting how Duple recycled two Willowbrook names – Viceroy and Viscount.]
David Oldfield
15/08/12 – 14:48
The five bay version was known as the Donington 2 and was used by, among others, MacBraynes. I produced a resin kit of it in fact! The design was built by the Duple Midland operation and was effectively superseded by the Britannia, which was very popular and shared the same front grille mouldings.
Andrew Goodwin
16/08/12 – 07:33
The correct spelling is Donington with one “n” – the body was named after the Donington Park motor-racing circuit close to the Duple Midland works in Loughborough. Donnington with “two ns” is in Shropshire. As you say this version of the Donington (actually its third incarnation since the first prototype was built in 1956 – the first version was built from 1957-58 and lacked the “chain” motif in the front panel) is by far the most attractive due to the deeper windows. I’m left a bit confused by the comment that “the Donington was replaced by the Britannia”. The Britannia design was first introduced in 1956 and the last were produced in 1962, the same year in which the Donington was deleted from the Duple catalogue. Both models were replaced for the 1963 season by a choice of either the (Hendon built) Commodore or (Blackpool built) Commander. Dual purpose options then became the preserve of the Willowbrook subsidiary and were built to “BET standard” design.
Neville Mercer
16/08/12 – 14:24
Yes Neville, I assumed that the draughtsmen who wrote “Donington” on the drawings knew what they were doing! I didn’t actually say it was replaced by the Britannia but my choice of words was perhaps unfortunate. What I meant to convey was the relative popularity of the Britannia as against the Donington leaving the latter with fewer sales. As you will no doubt tell us there were at least three versions of the Britannia as well! Reference the comment above about Willowbrook model names being recycled, Park Royal also did this with the name Royalist though the second version was anything but successful, not helped by being initially built on a second-string chassis rather than a front line player.
Andrew Goodwin
17/08/12 – 07:07
You’re quite right, Andrew, there were several versions of the Britannia. The original version, brought to market in 1956 to replace the Elizabethan, had a curved waist-rail and introduced the “chain motif” to the Duple range. All of this first version had front entrances, but were offered alongside the Britannic which had a central entrance and retained more of the styling of the Elizabethan. The Britannic was quietly dropped from the catalogue in 1957 and few were sold. The second version of the Britannia formed part of a new range of designs exhibited at the 1958 CMS at Earls Court and shared many components with the new version of the Super Vega built on Bedford SB chassis. Basically similar bodies (but at that stage nameless) were also offered on Ford and Commer chassis. As far as I can tell from my own records the Mk II Britannia was only available with a front entrance at first, but from 1960 onwards a new central entrance design with a much more curved profile at the front end was also offered. The most famous of these were probably the examples operated by Samuelsons in London and St Helens Corporation. There were minor detail changes to both front and central entrance versions in 1961, but you really have to look hard to see the difference – a tiny destination blind incorporated into the front bumper is the most visible clue. By 1962 orders for both Britannias and for the Donington had reduced to a trickle due to competitive pressure from the much more stylish offerings from Plaxton and Harrington. Duple realised that it was losing its share of the heavyweight coach market, dumped the Britannia, Donington, Willowbrook Viking and Viscount, and the entire sadly bastardised Burlingham range from the catalogue, and replaced the lot with the Commander (with vertical window pillars) and the short-lived Commodore (with a “Bella” style raked back pillar towards the rear). Sorry to go on, but as you might have noticed I have a thing about pre-1965 coach designs!
Neville Mercer
17/08/12 – 07:08
David and Roy have a valid point. Shortly after I joined Armstrong Galley ‘the coaching division of T&W PTE’ we took delivery of 15 Leyland Leopards GBB 985/999N fleet numbers 85/99 – 86/95 were 53 seaters with DP doors, but still had the comfort and overall look of a coach, and 96/99 were 45 seaters with coach doors, However, 85 was a totally different animal, it was in actual fact the first Alexander ‘T’ type ‘rumour has it that one or two of the Scottish bus group companies weren’t too pleased about it going to T&W’ but back to the plot, the vehicle itself was first class, but with the best will in the world it was a bus with coach seats. A/G did quite a lot of hire work for National Travel,and a fair amount of contract work, so 85 was always first choice for that, it was later transferred to the stage carriage fleet, and I think it was sold on after that
Ronnie Hoye
Sorry, should have said that the 14 coaches were Duple bodied
17/08/12 – 07:11
Externally all forms of the Donington look like buses to me, except when dolled up with Britannia/Vega trim, as here //sct61.org.uk/ It’s amazing what a few bits of metal and an association of ideas can do!
Peter Williamson
21/08/12 – 07:41
Castle Donington (one n in the middle!). The village has long suffered having people mis-spell its name, just as many folk think it is in Derbyshire because of the postal address, but it is in Leicestershire. The Duple Donington body. Duple purchased the business of Nudd Brothers and Lockyer in 1952, renaming it Duple (Midland) Motor Bodies. Nudd’s premises were a hanger on the former Castle Donington airfield, now East Midlands Airport. Nudd had experience of metal framed bodywork, hence the Duple interest and the name of the design of the Duple metal framed body. The technology of the time may have resulted in the rather angular design and the small windows used at first.
Mr Anon
01/08/14 – 16:29
I found the comment on ‘DP’ v ‘C’ interesting, as I’ve never been quite sure where the difference lay, and there are clearly several ‘grey areas’. One of my main questions is how the Ribble PDR1 ‘White Lady’ Atlanteans justify the designation ‘coach’, at least among enthusiasts. The roughly contemporary Leopards with BET-style bodies by Marshall and MCW are always referred to as ‘DP’, though in terms of comfort, style or usage there was little to distinguish them from the Altlanteans; if anything the Leopards were marginally more coach-like internally and ventured further afield. But both types were effectively buses fitted with headrest seats and luggage racks, and consequently had the claustrophobic feel of being packed with a lot of stuff that they were not really designed for. Both were mainly used on relatively short inter-urban express services, at least one of which (the X43 Manchester-Skipton) was actually a stage carriage route at its country end. Doses it really just boil down to the double-deckers’ almost all-ivory livery, compared with rather more red on the saloons? But then in NBC days the Atlanteans (by then well past their unimpressive best) were given service bus livery, while the Leopards got the DP treatment! Was it just that the Atlanteans hijacked the justified ‘C’ designation of their upmarket cousins, the ‘Gay Hostesses’? And as for the earlier generation of Titan ‘White Ladies’ — though admittedly I’m too young to remember very much about them — how could anything lowbridge ever really be called a coach, however much chrome you put on the outside?
Keith
15/10/19 – 05:48
This coach finished it’s day parked along the workshop at Berresford Motors Limited in the role of mess room. I believe it was still in situ when the business was sold to PMT.
City Coach Company (Brentwood) 1938 Leyland TEP1 Gnu Duple C40C
This vehicle was the third and last TEP1 chassis and was delivered new to the City Coach Co in August 1938 as fleet number G1. City’s later Gnus were of chassis type TEC2. When new the Duple bodywork was in C40C lay-out. The vehicle was sold to a dealer in May 1948 and then re-sold to E Wright of Southend-on-Sea (trading as Grey Luxury Coaches) in the following month, becoming Wright’s fleet number 8. Wright withdrew it in June 1951 and it next appeared with Taylor of Caterham in May 1952 as fleet number 16. Taylor traded it in to the Arlington Motor Co dealership in November 1954 and by June 1956 it was reported to be with an “unidentified showman”. Does anybody know when it was last licensed? I bought the original 10×8 print (which now hangs in my flat!) from a second-hand stall and have no idea who the original photographer was nor where the picture was taken. Can anybody identify the location?
Photograph and Copy contributed by Neville Mercer
27/03/16 – 09:58
Ooh! 25 years or so before the Bedford VAL . . .
Pete Davies
28/03/16 – 15:07
Four-wheel steering PSV’s were a very rare breed. The Leyland Gnu (supposed to have a silent G but that all stopped with Flanders & Swann’s song) was not only a rare beast with its four-wheel steering, but also with its set back front axle, like the Maudslay SF40/Magnum, but not looking so sleek.
Another example was London Transport’s 1939 chassisless all-Leyland Class X7 four-wheel steering trolleybus 1671 (DTD 649) which was unique in the fleet and scrapped in 1955. It was conceived, and was successful at, reducing tyre-scrub problems on the conventional six-wheeled trolleys and considered to have light steering, but was not repeated.
Chris Hebbron
29/03/16 – 05:54
There were only ever three of the Gnu TEP1 built, the other two being 40 seat front-entrance saloons bodied by and operating for Walter Alexander & Sons Ltd. Unlike the later TEC2 which was a PSV conversion of the Steer TEC1 lorry, not only was there a substantial front overhang, but also the radiator (of Tiger pattern) was off-set to the nearside to allow the 8.6 litre engine to be mounted further forward to improve passenger access. Here’s an Alexander official picture of the first one: www.flickr.com/photos/ The steering was not (unlike the VAL) power assisted.
Stephen Allcroft
29/03/16 – 05:54
Interesting that the trolleybus has a Lancashire DTD registration. Was it originally a Leyland demonstrator?
Philip Halstead
29/03/16 – 09:08
Not exactly, Philip. It was a one-off experiment with Leyland chassis and body to mimic LPTB’s trolleybus “house style”; a sort of demonstrator, but with LPTB very much in mind! This would not have been hard, as Leyland had built some London chassisless trolleybuses, to order, a year or two before. Electrical equipment was by Metrovick. It was run in London for about six months, then bought by LPTB, perhaps because, despite the war having started, trolleybus expansion was still running at pre-war levels in London and, with prescience, they wanted all they could get!
Chris Hebbron
29/03/16 – 10:54
Following on from Stephen A’s post, here are some photos of Gnu models painted in City and Alexander colours; all four sides. The page is slow to load, then go 1/3rd down the page. You can double-click to magnify. //tinyurl.com/zqgd4fh
Chris Hebbron
29/03/16 – 11:50
The City Coach Co. like Birch Bros., was partly able to keep out of London Transport’s clutches, because of its long-distance service to Southend. And the pair of them used vehicles which maximised customer payload. Birch used double deckers a lot, including Leyland Titanics and City used single-deck six-wheelers. Here is an eclectic selection of them, notably the Leyland PS2/11 with trailing front axle! //tinyurl.com/ztpnx68
Chris Hebbron
29/03/16 – 14:00
Some of those views mentioned by Chris Hebbron (29/03/16 – 11.50) have what look to be ‘Foden-ish’ front panels. Or are my eyes playing tricks again?
Pete Davies
30/03/16 – 05:42
Yes Pete, they are “Foden-ish” in their looks, but that’s the limit of it. There’s no Foden element in any of these Leylands. I suppose that a Foden designer might have seen them and worked on a similar design (or did someone working with pre-war Leyland transfer to Foden later?) But these are all fascinating buses and coaches. The images of the models in Chris H’s link is also interesting. It was worth comparing the dimensions of the NGT SE6 with those of the Leyland Gnu – two different pre-war approaches before Midland Red led the way with the under-floor engined S6 saloon in 1946 for the rest of the world to follow.
Michael Hampton
31/03/16 – 06:31
Thanks for the above Michael, but I think it was a Duple designer who styled the front of the City TEC2s and not a Leyland one, Leyland Steer cabs of the time had an exposed radiator. The post war Leyland cab strongly resmbled the Ale3xander bodied Gnus however. Of course the Northern SE6 and SE4 were the work of Donald Sinclair who then became chief engineer at Midland Red. And let’s not forget the Panda which was twin steering and mid-engined; originally designed for an abortive LT enquiry, it had only a short front overhang, however Alexander were keen on the twin steering concept and even wanted a twin-steer Titan…
Stephen Allcroft
01/04/16 – 06:55
These postings do generate a lot of little-known information, don’t they? ” . . . and informative copy” is a very apt motto!
Pete Davies
01/04/16 – 06:56
The twin steer is alive & well in Melbourne Australia, a BusTech CDi
John Wakefield
01/04/16 – 14:25
John- there is a Swedish coach company called Froggy Tours, and yes I have seen them in France, which uses Setra and Neoplan double-deck coaches with 4-axles three of which steer, I think. Seen with their luggage trailers, too, they are quite a rig!
Joe
02/04/16 – 06:33
Michael H mentioned Midland Red’s S6 model, which made me plot the stages of moving bus engines from front to back of the vehicles, a feat which took from 1932 to 1950; a mere 28 years, certainly less had the war not intervened. John Rackham”s “Q” class vehicle first saw the light of day in September 1932 with the LGOC, with a vertical engine mounted behind the offside front wheel. This avoided the need for a high floor which later underfloor-engined vehicles suffered from. Nevertheless, apart from London Transport taking 233 single deckers and five double deckers, the remaining UK sales amounted to penny numbers. London”s had long lives, mostly going in 1952/53, many being sold on, even to Malta. Northern General”s first 30 foot long six-wheeler SE6 (later four-wheel LSE4), designed by G W Hayter (NGT Chief Engineer) & W G Allen, was was registered in 1934 and had a true underfloor engine. This was the first of 131 vehicles, of which 24 were the four wheel SE4″s. The Leyland Tiger FEC (LPTB”s TF class) had underfloor engines, the prototype being delivered in December 1937, with the remaining 87, delivered in 1939, but they were to to be purely destined for London Transport, although the war suppressed any opportunity to market them elsewhere. They were 27″ 6″ long and seated 34, but these were Green Line/private hire vehicles. They were in store or used as ambulances, during the war up until 1946, when Green Line services resumed. Sound vehicles, the last, nevertheless, went in mid-1953, with low mileages, a victim of LT”s obsession with standardisation, using the RF. The Leyland Panda was produced after an enquiry by LPTB, who later lost interest, hence the vehicle entering service with Walter Alexander. The chassis had an underfloor engine, like the Leyland FEC. Alexander built the body, which had 45 seats and a centre entrance. Towards the end of the war, Midland Red R&D built some prototype chassis (S1-S5) chassis, designed to take a rear engine, but, with the arrival of Donald Sinclair, as chief engineer, from Northern General, (who oversaw the creation of the SE6/SE4), these chassis being altered to take an underfloor engine. The result was the S6, the first one of which was built in December 1946 and entering service in February 1947, the first of 100 vehicles. Again, they remained solely with Midland Red, being retired in the 1960″s. How these subsequent events might have changed, had a successful rear-engined vehicle emerged from S1-5! It was Sentinel who first offered an underfloor-engined vehicle to the open market, displaying two complete models at the Commercial Motor Show in 1948. For the first time, here was a model which could have transformed the then current thinking of the wider bus world, but, sadly, an outmoded, thirsty engine with high fuel consumption somewhat insecurely mounted underneath, with at least engine falling onto the road, somewhat dampened enthusiasm to buy – a tragedy really. Slightly later came the Leyland Olympic, introduced in 1949, a single-decker, with in integral body, under which was a horizontal version of the ubiquitous O.600 engine, with over 3,500 being built between 1949 and 1971. These rugged and reliable vehicles were exported around the world, proving very popular. The underfloor-engined bus had finally arrived! Then, in September 1950, Foden succeeded in producing the first rear-engined bus in the UK, the PVRF6, but it was not a big seller. It was another eight years before Leyland launched the game-changing Atlantean at the 1958 Commercial Motor Show.
Chris Hebbron
03/04/16 – 07:30
The first rear-engined PSV was actually delivered in 1937 – the prototype Leyland REC (Rear-Engined Cub), London Transport’s CR class. 48 production examples followed. As Ian Smith astutely points out on his website, the concept was exactly the same as the Dennis Dart of 50 years later. Details at www.countrybus.org/CR/CR.html
Peter Williamson
03/04/16 – 08:56
The Tilling-Stevens Successor of 1937 was a true underfloor engined design, albeit one that failed, primarily because the horizontally opposed eight cylinder engine kept breaking its crankshafts. It is believed that neither of the two constructed ever ran with the eight cylinder engine, but what ultimately became of these remarkable chassis is shrouded in the mists of time.
Roger Cox
03/04/16 – 10:32
Thx Peter/Roger, for reminding me of my omissions, especially that of the CR’s, although I should have remembered the Successor, too, since there is my thread about LT1000’s second body, which was taken off the Successor’s chassis! When you consider that the late thirties relationship between LPTB and Leyland was so innovative, which, initially included the Panda, it surprises me that Leyland were so slow in marketing underfloor/rear-engined postwar. The CR was a little unreliable, true, but there was a war on before snags could be ironed out and these mainly surplus, unloved ‘babies’ after the war, were too small for ‘big boys’ work!
Chris Hebbron
31/05/16 – 06:17
I’ve found a little footage of London Transport”s 1939 chassisless all-Leyland Class X7 four-wheel steering trolleybus 1671 (DTD 649). Go to the link and start at 2:10 mins – LINK: //tinyurl.com/jfxfchl
Chris Hebbron
01/06/16 – 06:49
May I add a few points to the above entries. Under Mr. L.G. Wyndham-Shire, Midland Red produced its first rear engined bus early in 1935. Between May and October of that year, it completed 25,000 miles in service. It had a transverse mounted petrol engine, Daimler fluid flywheel and Cotal gearbox (two-pedal control), and the entrance was in front of the front wheels. It was followed by one coach and two more buses (all designated type REC) in 1935/6. Their downfall was overheating and ingress of dirt into the engines (which still sounds familiar!) Their “conversion” to underfloor engine (one wonders how much actually remained) was probably under consideration before the war and the arrival of Mr. D.M. Sinclair. Between 1941 and 1944, they appeared, one a year, as 40 seat buses, types S1, S2, S3 and S4 with mechanical and body variations. The S5 was completely new and differed in being of integral construction.
Mr Anon
28/05/19 – 07:02
The photo of the ex-City coach Leyland Gnu was taken by the late Richard Butler, who died recently. I believe it was photographed at Derby in the late 1950’s. Richard took many shots of buses and coaches on the fairgrounds around that time. I suspect this one was probably unique on the grounds.
Highland Omnibuses Ltd 1952 Guy Arab UF Duple C37F
Back in the days of half-cabs, most coaches were distinguishable from single-deck buses by their window line. On buses this was straight and level, but on coaches it usually formed a gentle curve from the focal point of bonnet and cab down towards the rear. Later, when the engine of heavyweight coaches disappeared under the floor, there was no longer such a strong focal point, and at first the coach building industry was undecided as to whether to continue in the old tradition or to produce something as straight and symmetrical as the new chassis. Duple hedged its bets and did both, offering a choice between the curvy Ambassador and the straight-laced Roadmaster. Nicknamed the Iron Duke by those who built it, the Roadmaster was famously much more successful as a Dinky Toy model than it was in the real world, but it did have one big fan in the Red & White group, which purchased 21 spacious 37-seaters on Guy Arab UF chassis as well as a lone Leyland Royal Tiger. After withdrawal, some of the Arab UFs were sold to Highland Omnibuses, an avid Guy user, for bus work, where they formed an unusually sumptuous form of local transport! This one was photographed in Inverness Bus Station in June 1968.
To view a shot of the Ambassador body style click here.
Photograph and copy contributed by Peter Williamson
23/06/12 – 05:54
I find it surprising that some of the really obscure “real” vehicles seem to have been incredibly popular when converted to toy or model form. The Roadmaster is a classis example, along with the Dinky Commer/Harrington in BOAC livery. I suppose it must have depended on the original operators’ preferences, but these Roadmasters look considerably different from those which Standerwick had, and on which the Dinky seems to be based.
Pete Davies
KWO 37 is a Duple WORLDMASTER not a Roadmaster. Ex Red and White. Similarities with the ‘Roadmaster’ are obvious.
