Tag: Duple

Midland Red – BMMO C1 – KHA 301 – 3301


Copyright Nigel Edwards

Midland Red (Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Co)
1948
BMMO C1
Duple B40F

This shot was taken in June 2010 at the BaMMOT Museum at Wythall. The beautifully restored example of 45 originally built represents the first post-war coaches introduced by BMMO at their Carlyle works with bodywork by Duple. Based on the service bus (S6) with underfloor engine they were years ahead of their normal control – and half-cab – competitors. Twelve more, designated C2, appeared in 1950 – modifications included an outward opening passenger door (replacing sliding) and reduced seating capacity to 26 to cater for the very popular extended tours. These vehicles gave stirling service and, even though larger coaches had been introduced in the mid 50’s, a number were retained for “coach cruises” where narrower and shorter vehicles were required, Devon, Cornwall and the Scottish Highlands, for instance. A number survived well into the mid 1960’s. Even after their revenue earning life a number of these were converted to dual-control and became driver training vehicles into 1970.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Nigel Edwards

19/06/12 – 11:46

Thank you, Nigel, for bringing this beautiful beast to our attention. Another fine example of the industry-leading designs from the Midland Red stable. These C1’s, and the subsequent C2’s with their widely-spaced seating, must have been a delight to ride in. Spurred on by this photo, I have just visited the BaMMOT museum website and note that this coach is not on their roster. Is it under private ownership?

Paul Haywood

19/06/12 – 13:37

Yes Paul, this vehicle has been in private ownership for many years – the same family I believe – and is, fortunately for us all, a regular rally visitor in many parts of the country. You and other contributors might like to know there is a ‘Midland Red Day’ in October at the BaMMOT, when I am sure this icon will be present. From past experience well worth a visit!

Nigel Edwards

19/06/12 – 16:08

A number of people now have shares in this vehicle. I saw it earlier this year under repair with panels off etc so don’t know when it will be back on the road, but a favourite wherever it goes.

Ken Jones

19/06/12 – 16:09

Thanks, Nigel – I also noticed this event and checked my diary. To my horror, I realised that I had only just booked a 2-day theatre trip for myself, wife and mother-in-law for that very weekend, so it would be suicide if I cancelled – especially for “mere buses”! Ho hum! Next year perhaps?

Paul Haywood

22/06/12 – 15:12

The vehicle repairs are not estimated to be completed before end Dec 2012 and will therefore not be at Wythall on Oct 14.
The Group who own it are about 8 persons strong.

Roger Burdett

23/06/12 – 05:36

What a very pleasant surprise to see a posting from you Roger. I am hoping your beautiful C5 (which I have submitted for a future posting) will be at Wythall when I make my ‘pilgrimage’ from Yorkshire in October – may even be able to take a ‘peek’ inside?. Thanks for the update on 3301.

Nigel Edwards

23/06/12 – 21:29

KHA 353_lr

Nigel mentions the twelve successors to the C1 with Duple C26C bodies for extended tour work. Here is 3353, KHA 353, of the C2 class in May 1970 during the HCVC Brighton Rally. I cannot find any current record of this coach. Does it still exist?

Roger Cox

25/06/12 – 17:12

Nigel
C5 is unlikely to be there either as it is off by rotation i.e. when you have 18 roadworthy vehicles only a few are on the road at the same time. This was on the road until Sept 2011. If I have few problems then with everything else it might appear.

Roger
Only CL2 that still exists (and not in good condition) is 3352. It was in a garden in Wakefield till 1999 when Alan Bishop paid to bring it South. Work was started but I suspect given the size of the task it has been stopped for a few years now. I do not expect it to be restarted under the current owner

Roger Burdett

08/07/12 – 07:37

I serviced these buses at Newton Mearns bus depot (Western SMT) Glasgow Scotland in the 60,s & early 70,s on there turn around to London
The innovation of these buses was great the first heavy vehicle I had seen with disc brakes and not drums you couldn’t wait to finish it so you could go for a road test up the Ayr Road, they were great to drive. “OH” how I miss those days when buses were buses and not the junk that they call buses today.

John

09/07/12 – 07:16

3352 stood for years in the drive of a house in Stanley Road Wakefield. It had the name Ronny Storm presumably a kind of pop group.

Philip Carlton

10/07/12 – 06:38

KHA 301_2

Managed to find picture I took of 3301 under repair as mentioned in recent thread

Ken Jones

10/07/12 – 11:53

A dignified old lady – still looks amazing even when in pieces, long may she live!

Nigel Edwards

21/10/12 – 07:55

3353 was burnt out many years ago, I remember as a small lad I saw it in a yard (farm?) near Cannock with only below window line left. The coach was owned by the 3301 preservation group for spares. It went awol ie pinched by some scrappy about 30 odd years ago.
3352 is in a very bad way, the ribs of the body are all in steel & perished from water ingress so all require replacing, the floor is rotten & half removed. I haven’t worked on it for 10 years & I know nothing will have happened since. Perhaps when it gets passed on it will see the road again. Certainly not with Alan owning it.

Andy Bishop

06/12/12 – 11:56

Kens shot of 3301 under repair (above) took me down memory lane. I did my apprenticeship at Bulwark Workshop In the 1960s. I now live in Melbourne Australia. Keep up the good work.

Mike Jones

06/12/12 – 16:34

Some of us recently had a private visit to Roger Burdett’s place and my article and picture of 3301 as it is now – some 18 months into the restoration – can be seen at www.focustransport.org.uk/ 

Ken Jones

19/04/14 – 07:33

Many fond memories of this old bus happy hours polishing the grill happy days at rallies across the country my greatest thanks to her old owners Allan, Cliff & Les for letting me ride along so happy to see she is being looked after still may be I get to see her again one day, fond memories.

Christopher Wilkinson

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

11/05/16 – 06:37

I remember taking my drivers test in this bus in the 1970s I already held a full PSV licence having driven on Walsall transport for a number of years. Even then you had to pass the Midland Red test. When you had passed you felt on top of the world.

Trev Gibbs

Priory Coaches – Bedford WTL – BXM 568

Priory Coaches - Bedford WTL - BXM 568

Priory Coaches (Gosport)
1935
Bedford WTL
Duple C20F

Here we have a Bedford WTL with Duple C20F bodywork from 1935. She is seen in the livery of Cyril Cowdray (Priory Coaches) of Gosport, another operator put off the road after upsetting the Traffic Commissioner once too often. She was new to Blunt, Mitcham, and spent some time on the Isle Of Man as CMN 986 before returning to the UK. The scene is an Open Day at the Provincial depot, Hoeford, on 8 June 1985.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

10/08/15 – 11:24

This coach has been with J. W. Lodge & Sons of High Easter for some years undergoing a thorough rebuild however I think it was put to one side while they were restoring their Ford T. I believe that their ultimate aim is to have a representative vehicle from each decade that the company has been operating. Since they are well in to their tenth decade that’s quite a fleet of historic vehicles!

Nigel Turner

10/08/15 – 16:04

Thank you, Nigel. Yes, it will be a VERY impressive collection when they decide that it’s complete. “Now, have we room in the garage for another OB?”

Pete Davies

11/08/15 – 16:49

Pete,
The whole Lodge operation is very impressive and a credit to the three generations who have built it up over the last 95 years. I have no idea why I referred to them restoring a Ford T in my earlier comment, it is a 1926 Chevrolet

Nigel Turner

25/06/20 – 07:19

Lodge are still very active, but their vintage fleet now consists of Bedfords’ OB, SB, YMT and said Chervolet Charabanc. Sadly, no mention of the WTB.

Chris Hebbron

27/06/20 – 06:44

The WTB project was on display at an event at Lodge’s premises on 24 March 2019. At the time there was a lot of work to do on the vehicle.

David Slater

28/06/20 – 06:56

“I was intrigued about the Bedford WTL chassis, as it seems to have led a rather shadowy life. There is little written about it, either, but some research revealed the following.
The first Bedford chassis designed for PSV use was the WHB, built from 1931 to 1933, for a 14-seat body. Only 102 were ever sold. The larger WLB chassis quickly followed, with greater success, with over 2000 built between 1931 and 1938, when production ceased.
The WTL chassis was a three-ton lorry chassis, modified to sell as a still-larger PSV, but was not popular as a passenger vehicle in any great numbers, initially with just over 200 being built as such in its first two years, 1935 and 1936, but, nevertheless, it soldiered to receive passenger bodies in penny numbers until 1939. One’s or two’s describe the numbers bought by most operators, although, in 1935, Vauxhall had at least four in use for staff transport, Walter Alexander bought five and at least eight were exported to the Netherlands. Bodybuilders were varied, with small orders using Robson, Thurgood, Wilmott and Willowbrook, Unsurprisingly, however, the majority were bodied by Duple, although, in 1939, several of them were bodied by Plaxton. Those which went to the Netherlands were bodied by two firms, Werkspoor (Amsterdam) and Jurgens.
The WTL could, in retrospect, be considered a stop-gap chassis, its far more successful compatriot being the three feet longer WTB, introduced in late 1935..
However, the WTL (as well as the WTB) chassis were upgraded in 1938, which included an all-metal cab area with redesigned front wings. The radiator grill/bonnet area became rounded and modern-looking, foretelling the future OB front, minus radiator cap!. Engine power was increased from 64 to 72bhp.”

Chris Hebbron

28/06/20 – 10:01

One little titbit I omitted from my post of 28/06/20 was that the redesign of the front ends in 1938 was a joint venture with Duple.

Chris Hebbron

28/06/20 – 10:03

BXM 568 Bedford WTL Duple C20F chassis No 875523 body No 5058
New to W E Blunt t/a Mitcham Belle, Mitcham 6/35
5/38 B B Atkinson, Douglas, IoM re reg as CMN 986
4/39 J W A Wightman, Onchan, IoM t/a Sunny Hours Coaches
9/61 L Q Keen, Douglas, IoM (not operated)
4/62 Kirkby Central, Anston (dealer) reverted to BXM 568
5/68 G A Arnold, Holmesfield (preservation)
11/71 Geoffrey Pitt t/a Doug Jones Coaches, Littleton
-/73 Howard Herridge, Gosport (preservation)
-/75 C Cowdrey t/a Priory Coaches, Gosport (later stored in Mid Hants railway yard at Medstead)
6/93 Ray Dodds, Fareham (preservation)
circa -/03 Len Carter, Fareham (dealer) but not moved from Ray Dodds premises)
2/08 Lodge Coaches, High Easter for restoration & eventual return to service in Heritage Fleet.

John Wakefield

02/06/21 – 08:48

I thought this might be of interest to visitors to this site, a newspaper article which appeared in the Fraserburgh Hearld and New Counties Advertiser, 13 January 1931. The article relates to my Gt.Gt Grandfather George Jaffray from Rosehearty, Fraserburgh, who was a master joiner and local businessman. George was fined 25 shillings in the first case of its kind in the Sheriffs Court, for allowing a motor omnibus for which he owned to ply for hire without having painted in conspicuous place the total number of passengers which the vehicle was allowed to carry.

Clive Taylor

Bournemouth Corporation – Bedford WTB – FEL 216 – 13


Copyright Ray Soper

Bournemouth Corporation
1939
Bedford WTB
Duple B25F

This shot is from the Ray Soper “Gallery” contribution A Trolleybus tour in Bournemouth click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments to it.
The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.

23/02/12 – 09:47

Bournemouth 183 A Bedford OWB with a Duple body was exported to the USA after service in London. It has just been reported in the PSV sheets as changing owners in late 2006 in San Francisco.

John Ashmore

21/07/13 – 07:35

Did some of the late Bedford WTB’s have the OB bonnet style or was this an attempt to modernise the front?

Chris Hebbron

21/07/13 – 08:03

Interesting point, Chris. The OB replaced the WTB in 1939(?) and almost immediately became the war-time OWB, The OB returned in peacetime – around 1946. So is this a WTB or is it simply a pre-war OB?

David Oldfield

21/07/13 – 11:15

This style of bonnet and radiator grille was introduced in 1938 on the WTB and also on all the rest of the W-series range. These were replaced by the K, M and O-series the following year.
The WT-series had no external radiator filler cap, and high mounted headlamps, whereas the O-series had an external filler cap and lower set headlamps. This is generally a good way of telling them apart, but in later life it was not at all uncommon for operators to mix and match parts – so it is not 100% reliable.

John Stringer

22/07/13 – 11:26

Thx, John S, for the answer.

Chris Hebbron

10/11/16 – 07:30

This bus was preserved by the Poole and District Model Railway Society.
I have a couple of pictures of FEL 216 after restoration in 1967.

Bruce

10/11/16 – 10:37

FEL 216 went from Poole & District Model Railway Society to Tim Salter of Wareham in 10/98 along with sister FEL 218. FEL 218 was later (circa 98) broken up for spares, with the intention to restore 216. From what I can gather very little progress has been made on FEL 216 & it is still owned by Tim Slater.
Whilst on the subject of these Bournemouth WTB’s EEL 46 a 1938 Burlingham WTB is now just a rolling chassis after acquisition by Cyril Kenzie in 5/08, the body deemed to bad to restore. The chassis is still with Kenzie.

John Wakefield

10/11/16 – 13:50

FEL 216_3
FEL 216_2

Here are a couple of shots after FEL 216 had been preserved by the Poole and District Model Railway Society.

Bruce

25/08/22 – 05:47

FEL 218

Here is a picture of No.15, FEL 218, taken on an HCVC Brighton Rally in the very early 1970s. As John Whittaker comments, this bus was broken up for spares for preserving FEL 216.

Roger Cox

31/08/22 – 07:04

Just an aside, but I read that Yellow Bus, successor the Bournemouth Corporation, went bust on August 4th.

Chris Hebbron

01/09/22 – 07:03

….. and More bus stepped in and seamlessly provided replacement services. They didn’t “take over” Yellowbus in any way, just stepped up.

David Oldfield

E J Baker – Bedford WLB – CMG 30

E J Baker - Bedford WLB - CMG 30

E J Baker
1935
Bedford WLB
Duple C20R

This Bedford WLB was bought new in May 1935 by T. E. Garner of Ealing London W5. It was taken by the Ministry of Supply during WW2 and seemingly given a military registration. When the MoS disposed of it in February 1943 it was re-registered JTA 608 and sold to E. Saunders of Winkleigh, Devon. The subsequent history is a little obscure, but the vehicle came into the ownership of preservationists Messrs Burt and Mitchell by 1964 before passing to E. J. Baker of Bordon, Hants, in April 1966. Baker apparently sold it on to Taylor of Tintinhull, Somerset, in October 1966, who restored the original registration by May 1967. However, the picture above, taken on an HCVC Brighton Rally, shows the vehicle still in Baker’s livery with its CMG 30 registration. Was the vehicle sold by Baker after re-registration, or did Taylor not repaint it? It is thought that this coach then languished in a barn for about 25 years before Colin Rowland of Rambler Coaches, St Leonards, East Sussex purchased it in November 2008 and restored/repainted it in green livery. I am indebted to the expert contributions of John Wakefield on the internet for much of these history details, and I will be pleased if John wishes to rectify any errors in my text.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

16/11/20 – 06:06

I photographed this gem in the Weymouth rally on 1 July 1979, when it carried both the CMG mark and red/cream livery.

Pete Davies

19/11/20 – 06:41

A list of Bedford production during the 1930s may be found here:- www.psvcircle.org.uk

Roger Cox

25/11/20 – 07:56

Is the CMG a recognized. War dept/MoS or w.h.y registration? Looks civvy to me.

Victor Brumby

26/11/20 – 06:23

Now in preservation with Colin Rowland (ex Rambler Coaches) Hastings.

John Wakefield

28/11/20 – 07:02

CMG 30 was its original civil registration. It would have have been allocated a military registration. When disposed of by the military presumably its original documentation was missing so it was given a new registration by its new owner. At some stage a subsequent owner must have traced its original identity and had the registration changed back to the one originally carried.

David Hick

Coalporters Amateur Rowing Club -Bedford VAL – LBY 173D

Coalporters Amateur Rowing Club -Bedford VAL - LBY 173D

Coalporters Amateur Rowing Club
1966
Bedford VAL 14
Duple C48F

There isn’t a lot to be said about this poor creature other than ‘oh, dear!’. LBY 173D is a Bedford VAL with Duple body, new in 1966 and relegated to carrying club members and their boats to and from events. She is seen near the group’s premises near Northam Bridge in Southampton, on the dull afternoon of 21 September 1981. What might in other circumstances be thought of as part of the frame for the upper deck is the boat rack.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

25/09/16 – 11:55

At long last, I have been able to gain access to Bus Lists On The Web! For some strange reason, I have not managed to gain entry until now. Perhaps I wasn’t hitting the correct buttons in the right order, but never mind. That website tells us that this vehicle was new to Rickards in May 1966. I imagine she had the maroon livery from new – what a comedown to this!

Pete Davies

Actually, at 15 years for a Bedford, I don’t think this coach looks so bad. Decent livery and lettering reflecting I assume… Coal!
It must have been over a few unsurfaced roads and even riverbanks and there seems little damage: bashed bumper, dent behind front wheels… and smart wheels too. The contraption on top looks odd when empty but loaded perhaps even impressive! Presumably the VAL was lower and better for the job?

Joe

Dan Air – Bedford SB – YXA 372

YXA 372

Dan Air (LondOn)
1960
Bedford SB8
Duple C41F

Here is a view of YXA 372, to complement HDA 554E posted a while ago. YXA is another relegated to “staff bus” duties with Dan Air, and seen at Lasham. The layout of the indicators suggests very strongly that she started life with Grey Green or an associated company. She was photographed in January 1976. I apologise for the fact that a van is blocking, but I couldn’t get a better angle.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

02/01/14 – 08:29

This Bedford was new to Fallowfield and Britten in 1960 and seated 41 in a front entrance body.

Chris Hough

02/01/14 – 08:30

Despite appearances, the paint on coach and van is green! It’s a “dud” slide from that point of view. I don’t recall the make.

Pete Davies

02/01/14 – 09:31

Pete. I don’t think it’s so much a dud slide as a dull green – almost matt – and you probably couldn’t have made much more of it anyway. It would be interesting to know exactly how many Leyland/Bedfords there were? It seems that, for what they were, the Leyland powered Bedfords were well thought of. Were they, in the main, big groups like Grey-Green?
PS: SB8 Leyland 330 [same size as SB5 Bedford 330]
SB13 Leyland 370 [same size as Albion Victor VK21L]
VAL14 & VAM 14 Leyland 400 [Tiger Cub and Bristol LH]

David Oldfield

02/01/14 – 11:32

The shade of green on the slide isn’t that far removed from the shade of mud green employed by Dan Air Engineering for their vehicles.

Phil Blinkhorn

02/01/14 – 17:34

I know that many Bedford TK lorries had Leyland engines.

Jim Hepburn

03/01/14 – 08:15

Apparently those in the know could distinguish the SB8 from the SB1 by inspecting the headlamps, as it had 24-volt electrics rather than 12. So it’s possible that there were other differences, making the Leyland-engined model into more of a premium product.

Peter Williamson

03/01/14 – 12:10

I never personally came across an SB1; it must have been a slug with its Bedford 300 diesel. The SB3 was far more common with its smooth and quiet petrol version of the Bedford 300. It was the smooth, quiet and fairly lively running of the petrol OB which endeared it to so many people. The SB3 was (almost) the last gasp of this “technology” and was very popular with small independent operators. There was a VAM3 – but I’m only aware that Salopia operated any of them. Petrol was becoming passe and very expensive compared with diesel operation even though – big AECs and Leylands apart – they were slow, noisy and smelly.

David Oldfield

06/03/15 – 16:14

To David Oldfield, I am 99% certain that the Bedford SB8 had a Leyland 350 engine, not a 330. The Bedford SB featured in most operators fleets at some time. I have always liked them.

Stemax1960

W J O Jennings – Bedford SB5 – CCV 166C


Copyright Unknown

W J O Jennings
1965
Bedford SB5
Duple C41F

Here we  can see CCV 166C, a Bedford SB5 with Duple C41F body (1183/193) that was new in May 1965 together with 181 ECV, a Bedford SB1 with Duple Super Vega C41F (1105/440) new in June 1959, in the delightful orange and cream of Jennings of Bude, Cornwall. Presumably, the Duple Viceroy behind is also Jennings, and presumably also bought new. A great period picture of unknown copyright.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

29/01/15 – 07:17

A lovely photograph of two nice Bedford Duple coaches. I have always thought that the Bedford SB – Duple Bella Vega was a classic design, although often overlooked by enthusiasts. It was interesting that a matching range of designs was built for the Bedford VAS (Bella Vista), SB (Bella Vega), VAM (Bella Venture) and VAL (Vega Major). The same body if fitted to a Thames Trader was known as the Trooper. Jennings eventually took over Western National’s Bude Depot and it’s services.

Don McKeown

29/01/15 – 07:18

It is probable that the third coach is RAF102G, a Bedford VAL with Duple Northern C53F body, new to WJO Jennings in March 1969. Although there were several Duple bodies delivered during the late 60s and early 70s, it is the position of the emergency exit door that indicates it was the VAL.

John Grigg

02/10/16 – 05:41

It is a VAL definitely as the wheel arch is level with the stainless steel side trim, on a VAM or YRQ the arch goes much higher up into the next panel.

Russell Price

04/10/16 – 05:25

181 ECV survives in preservation with Ron Greet. But CCV 166C is not known to survive, last tax expired 1/10/89

John Wakefield

Crimson Tours – Bedford SB3 – 675 OCV

Crimson Tours - Bedford SB3 - 675 OCV

Crimson Tours (St Ives)
1962
Bedford SB3
Duple Super Vega C41F

675 OCV proclaims herself to be a 1962 vehicle, with Duple Super Vega bodywork in the fleet of Crimson Tours, St Ives, Cornwall. This distinction is important, as I know of two others and there may be more! I used to work with a chap from St Ives, Ringwood, Hampshire. Despite using the postcode, his mail was continually misdirected to Huntingdonshire or Cornwall. I suppose folk in those places had the same trouble. Anyway, back to the vehicle. She’s an example of the Bedford SB3, with C41F seating. We see her at Showbus, Duxford, on another day it didn’t rain, 29 September, 1996. I have severe doubts about the legality of that number plate.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

07/09/15 – 07:16

Bedford SB3 675 OCV is a valid, original and still currently in use registration, from “vehicleenquiry.gov” date first registered was 14th June 1962 with 7630cc petrol engine.
Details from “buslistsontheweb” are;
675 OCV Bd SB3 88799 Du 1145/55 C41F 8/1962 New to Crimson,St Ives.

07/09/15 – 07:19

Lots of other pictures of it found via googling the reg No.
They all have White on Black plates, I wonder if, at the time of your photo, the owners had experimented with the more modern reflective plates and fitted them the wrong way round with the Black on Yellow at the front.

John Lomas

08/09/15 – 07:00

Could a misprint have slipped in somewhere? 7630cc sounds like a pretty hefty engine for an SB!

Ian T

08/09/15 – 07:01

To clarify, I’m in no doubt that the registration is correct. What puzzles me is the use of black on white plate at the back. As John Lomas suggests, they may have been fitted incorrectly.

Pete Davies

08/09/15 – 07:02

I photographed this coach at a rally on 24 August 2015 and it had white on black number plates. www.ipernity.com/doc/davidslater-spoddendale/

David Slater

09/09/15 – 07:14

David, I notice on your photo, the rear bumper trim has been fitted. I could be wrong ‘not unusual’ but in the days of black number plates, weren’t these made of glass or perspex and illuminated from behind?

Ronnie Hoye

09/09/15 – 07:15

The standard engine for a Bedford SB3 is the Bedford 300 ci. 4.927L Petrol unit so if VOSA website has this correct I reckon it can whizz up hills without changing down the gears with no problems.

Ron Mesure

09/09/15 – 07:16

The coach looks all the better for the black on white number plates as in David’s photo, and also appears to have acquired a rear bumper too. Back as nature intended!

Brendan Smith

14/09/17 – 06:51

Regarding the unusual number plate in the picture above, I think all we are seeing is a standard plastic black on yellow plate behind the glass but the yellow has faded which did happen in period to some early plates. Having new correct white on black raised character plates is vastly better!

Richard Leaman

15/09/17 – 06:34

With regard to the engine, 7630cc sounds like the capacity of the Bedford diesel engine fitted to the YRQ. So I reckon that’s what it’s got, and someone has forgotten to change the fuel type in the registration details.

Peter Williamson

16/09/17 – 06:56

675 OCV still has its 300 cu in (4.9 litre) petrol engine.
DVLA listing is wrong.

John Wakefield

Hills of Stockingford – Bedford SBG TUE132 – 6EBH – 748UYL

Hills of Stockingford - Bedford SBG - TUE 132/6EBH/748 UYL

Hills of Stockingford
1955
Bedford SBG
Duple C41F

This is a Bedford SBG with a Duple C41F body that has a complicated history. It was first registered on 31 December 1955 as TUE 132, and, from 1 January 1956, went to Hills of Stockingford, near Nuneaton, Warwickshire. The vehicle, chassis number 41422, body number 1060/158, passed to Skills of Nottingham in October 1989. In July 1998 Skills swapped its registration, chassis and body numbers with another Duple bodied SBG registered 6 EBH, chassis number 62553 and body number 1090/150. The purpose of this exercise is perplexing. The former 6 EBH went to John Burton Coaches of Alfreton in June 1999 until scrapped early in 2001. It is unclear how this surviving SB acquired the number 748 UYL. Though originally an SBG (gasoline) example, it now possesses a diesel engine, type uncertain. It currently resides in the car park of a garden centre, “The Walled Garden at Elton Hall”, at the village of Elton in Huntingdonshire. Before this it spent its time parked on the side of the main road through the village, as seen in this picture. Internally, the body is completely gutted, though it does not appear that any active restoration is in progress.
I acknowledge the flickr site of John Wakefield as the source of this information.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

07/01/16 – 06:27

It acquired the ‘age related’ (748 UYL) when the previous owner transferred 6 EBH off onto his car. The current owner now looks to have changed his plans, its back on sale on the //www.carandclassic.co.uk for £24000 plus VAT Previous owner restored chassis & body exterior leaving the interior to be completed, the seats & interior were sold with coach so presumably in store somewhere.

John Wakefield

07/01/16 – 08:57

Thanks for filling in the last bits of the jigsaw, John. Having seen this Bedford languishing in Elton for some time, I decided to photograph it and send it to OBP to glean some information about it. I then discovered that your flickr site had already identified its unusual history.

Roger Cox

07/01/16 – 08:57

Out of interest, if Skill’s swapped the registration, body number, and chassis number, between the two coaches, how does it come to be known that an exchange of identity took place? Were there obvious differences between the two vehicles?
BLOTW gives the original 6 EBH as SB3 – was there any difference between the SBG and SB3 models or was it simply an updating of the code?

David Call

07/01/16 – 11:36

The change was recorded by PSVC & is common knowledge among enthusiasts. There is a difference in age of the vehicles 6 EBH is 1958 & TUE 132 1955. There are small detail differences in the bodies, the front indicator lights for one. TUE has the horizontal ‘tear drop’ type on front corners & 6 EBH had vertical ones set further back. 6 EBH had both windscreen wiper spindles at the bottom of windscreens, TUE 132 has the drivers side in the upper edge. Why Skills did the swop is unclear but presumably to get a nice ‘cherished’ number, I suppose as the vehicles were, to the untrained eye, virtually identical I don’t suppose anyone (including the ministry), noticed. I think by that time 6 EBH was in poor condition & TUE 132 was the better coach. Both the SBG & SB3 had the same 300 cu-in petrol engine, the SBG had a 17ft 2in wheelbase this was lengthened in 1955 to 18ft & became the SB1 (300 diesel) SB3 (300 petrol) or SB5 (330 diesel)

John Wakefield

07/01/16 – 17:08

The SBG (petrol)/SBO (Perkins R6 diesel)) designation continued after the lengthening of the wheelbase in 1955 to 18ft.6in., only becoming SB3 (petrol)/SB1 (Bedford 300 diesel)/SB8 (Leyland 0350 diesel) from 1957. In terms of Duple Super Vegas this occurred part way through the 1074-series of body numbers. The SB5 (Bedford 330 diesel) replaced the SB1 from late 1961, the change taking place during the production of the 1045-series Super Vega.

John Stringer

08/01/16 – 06:47

How legal was this swapping of plates and identity? In this day and age it would be called ‘a ringer’.

Stephen Howarth

08/01/16 – 12:08


Copyright Stuart Johnson

Here is photo of the ‘real’ 6 EBH when with Canham of Whittlesey.

John Wakefield

15/03/16 – 05:44

Roger, any further news on 748 UYL, is it still at the garden centre at Elton? if so maybe you could take another pic.

John Wakefield

17/03/16 – 05:01

748 UYL

Yes, John, it’s still at the garden centre called The Walled Garden at Elton Hall. It hasn’t moved since my original posting in January, and no work on the interior seems to have been undertaken either. This picture was taken on 16 March.

Roger Cox

04/08/16 – 11:18

When I last looked at this Bedford very recently, no work had been done on its gutted interior. It has now gone from the Elton Hall car park.

Roger Cox

20/08/17 – 07:08

748 UYL_3
748 UYL_4

748 UYL was at East Coast Upholstery in Pickering on 16/7/17 when I took these photos, it was still there 13/8/17, still no seats, but must be having some fitted!

Michael Davies

01/11/17 – 07:19

I was searching for some sort of picture of this:
“Known vehicle: XBH 777 Bedford SBG 46298 1/56 , 5/63, 3/66 Duple C41F (1060/352). New to Jeffways Coaches, High Wycombe, Jeffways and Pilot Coaches, High Wycombe 5/60.”
I was very kindly helped to do some research by several people, but a computer problem a year or two ago led to me losing their contact details and some of the explanations that they gave me!
Can someone please de-code the bit in quotes for me?? and tell me if this photo would be a good approximation of the vehicle referred to.

Joanna Wheatland

02/11/17 – 06:38

BH 777
Bedford
SBG Chassis type-SB Model G= Gasoline (i.e. Petrol engined).
46298 = Bedford Chassis number.
1/56 = Date new.
5/63, 3/66 not known.
Duple = Body manufacturer
C41F = 41 seater coach with a front entrance.
1060/352 = Duple body number.

David Hick

04/11/17 – 06:49

The answer to the last part of Joanna’s question is yes.

Peter Williamson

04/11/17 – 06:54

Re 748 UYL (TUE 132) I have recently spoken to Neil at Eastgate Coach Trimmers, Pickering (not East Coast Upholstery) he has now recovered the seats & has now to trim out the interior. I asked him who the owner was & he was reluctant to tell me, just that it was a private owner in Essex & he would pass on my contact details. Have heard no more.

John Wakefield

04/03/18 – 06:54

Apparently 748 UYL (TUE 132) is bound for New Zealand. It went from Pickering in early Feb into temp storage in the Peterborough area. The new owner (Brent Cooper) a New Zealand resident. It is not known what use Mr Cooper will make of the SB, possibly part of a vehicle collection. Current NZ Construction & Use regulations do not permit wooded bodied buses & coaches. Readers may remember the saga of OB JAB 867 that went to NZ in 2006 but had to be returned to UK after owner could not get it certified for PSV use. I dont suppose the number plate issue will be relevant to owner now, as it will have to have a new registration when it gets there.

John Wakefield

07/02/20 – 06:22

Bed_SB

Coach for sale on ebay 6 Feb. 2020

Dennis Rolls

03/11/20 – 06:18

748 UYL has been spotted on land off the A40 junction with Hanger Lane, London, which had prior to Covid been used to park the fleet of Contiki Holidays.

John Wakefield

16/11/20 – 08:27

My son rode on this Bedford on Saturday 14th November on the E2 (Greenford-Brentford). Any info on why it was being used?

Niall Spencer

12/12/20 – 06:36

Niall Spencer. Are you sure it was this Bedford (748 UYL) that your son rode on? As far as I can see its been untaxed since 1/8/16 and in fact has an export marker showing on the DVLA listing!

Vehicle Details
Vehicle make BEDFORD
Date of first registration June 1958
Year of manufacture 1958
Cylinder capacity 99999 cc
CO2 emissions Not available
Fuel type PETROL
Euro status Not available
Real Driving Emissions (RDE) Not available
Export marker Yes
Vehicle status Untaxed
Vehicle colour GREEN
Vehicle type approval Not available
Wheelplan NOT RECORDED
Revenue weight Not available
Date of last V5C (logbook) issued 21 August 2015

John Wakefield

14/12/20 – 07:11

I believe it was this one, as he texted me the reg, knowing I have an interest in buses and coaches. He also said it was an old streamlined green Bedford.

Niall Spencer

15/12/20 – 06:54

Niall I find this very odd, not only is the coach not taxed (all be it free), but it has ‘officially’ been exported. further more it is not insured according to ASKMID! Whilst I am not familiar with the E2 Greenford – Brentford service I find it strange that TfL would allow an old 1955 coach to operate illegally on one of their routes. Had it have done so I am sure someone would have taken a pic and posted it on Facebook etc. Did your son get a photo?

John Wakefield

16/12/20 – 10:55

This isn’t part of the current discussion, but the original picture makes me think of the Matchbox series Bedford SB coach produced in the 1950’s/60’s. I think it was their No.21. The green colour is an almost perfect match. I had eleven of them in my “fleet”, along with the double deckers and trolleybuses from their series. Some survive with in the grand childrens’ box of items. Goodness me, these toys are as old as the real one above!

Michael Hampton

17/12/20 – 11:55

Unfortunately he was on his way to work, as a BTP Police Officer, so was unable to get a pic. He did mention it was a bit of a shock when it stopped at his bus stop and he had to ask if it was the E2. There was a person onboard collecting contactless payments.
This is becoming a very interesting occurrence.

Niall Spencer

21/12/20 – 06:59

Niall I have since been in touch with the owner of 748UYL and it was certainly not the vehicle that your son saw on the E2. As I suspected the Bedford has not been on the road! So looks like mistaken identity.

John Wakefield

21/12/20 – 11:38

At least we have got to the bottom of it.
Will question him next time I can see him.

Niall Spencer

Solent Strutters – Bedford SB – 539 XTF

Solent Strutters - Bedford SB - 539 XTF

Solent Strutters Majorettes
1962
Bedford SB5
Duple C41F

539 XTF was a Bedford SB5 with Duple C41F body, and it has been relegated to duty for the Solent Strutters Majorettes group. The registration indicates it was new to an operator in Lancashire in the period 1961 to 1963, depending on the gap between order and delivery (Look, for example, at Lancaster’s 201-203 YTE). We see it in the rally at Netley on 13 July 1986: soon after this it sank to even greater depths with travellers and has since been scrapped. So much is fact, but now we have a question: who was its first operator?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

17/07/16 – 08:12

New to Barnes, Rawtenstall, Lancashire in March 1962, along with with 540 XTF.

David Hick

18/07/16 – 08:39

Thank you, David. I did wonder if the first operator might have been Battersby/Silver Grey of Morecambe. They had several of this combination (well, SB if not this model).

Pete Davies

29/09/19 – 07:08

539 and 540 XTF were the only Barnes fleet members taken into the Ellen Smith of Rochdale fleet when Smiths took over Barnes business. I think they were retained because they possessed a Leyland engine (Smiths were big Leyland users). Ellen Smith kept them until 1967 and they were replaced by two new Bedford VAM/Plaxton coaches.

Andrew Spriggs

30/09/19 – 06:26

Going back to 539 to 540 XTF, many years ago whilst on hire to Ellen Smith one of their drivers told me each one had a Leyland engine. However the original caption of 539 XTF says its a SB5 which would indicate Bedford’s own engine. A Leyland power unit would indicate them being SB8 or SB13 models. Perhaps some engine swapping has gone on?, we will never know as most of Ellen Smiths drivers I remember from forty years ago who would know have retired from coach driving or sadly passed away.

Andrew Spriggs

06/10/19 – 08:06

Ended its days with travellers https://www.travellerhomes.co.uk/?p=2356

John Wakefield