Tag: Duple

Priory Coaches – Bedford OB – ?? – 47

Bedford OBs

Priory Coaches of North Shields
194?
Bedford OB
Duple C27F

My thanks to the management of Priory Coaches North Shields, for allowing me to use this photo.
An impressive line up of Duple bodied Bedford OB’s from the late 40’s (exact year unknown) In the background is Tynemouth Castle, which overlooks the mouth of the river Tyne. To the extreme left, the white building at the top of the cliffs is the Coast Guard Station.

Bedford OBs cu

Above the roof line of the buildings you can see the medieval monument of Tynemouth Priory, which the company is named after, at one time a gold image of the Priory was displayed on the rear of their vehicles. The livery was two shades of green and cream, with gold leaf lettering and logo, the seats were upholstered in a dark rich red moquette material. Around 1953, the layout was altered and cream became the predominant colour. On the OB’s, the bulk of the body became cream, the roof, front and rear wings, lower skirt, radiator and bonnet tops were dark green, the wheels and the side flash below the window line was the lighter green. The present day fleet is mainly Volvo, and the livery is white with two shades of blue. The Priory logo is still used, but is no longer displayed on their vehicles, the lettering is now blue, but same shaded style font is still used.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

12/05/14 – 08:42

Only a small number of Bedford OB coaches were produced late 1945 after the war with production increasing in 1946 a Bedford PSV circle listing would give you exact year. This listing provides date to 1st owner. Which may help you to date photograph. Sorry I do not have access to listing.

Alan Coulson

12/05/14 – 14:03

T. G. Chapman (Priory Coaches) of South Shields had the following OB/Vistas:
FT 5666: 04/46
FT 5679: 06/46
FT 5680: 06/46
FT 5884: 10/46
FT 5885: 02/47
FT 5892: 10/46
FT 5893: 01/47
FT 5894: 10/46
FT 5895: 11/47
FT 5896: 10/46
FT 6102: 11/47 (SMT body)
FT 6281: 01/48
FT 6358: 06/48
FT 6642: 05/49
FT 6795: ?
FT 6905: 1950
FT 7009: 1951
There were also 12 OB’s (6 Duple, 6 Plaxton FC30F) with FT registrations delivered between 7/46 and 12/48 to Taylor Bros. of North Shields. Some of the registration numbers of Taylor’s vehicles were in the same batches as the Priory (Chapman) ones, so I assume there was a connection between the two. This is according to the PSV Circle book on the OB.

John Stringer

13/05/14 – 06:37

John, I’m not aware of any connection between Taylor Brothers of North Shields and Priory Coaches, but that’s not to say there wasn’t one. Around 1960 ‘ish’ Taylor Bros became a subsidiary of Hall Brothers of South Shields, who subsequently became part of the Barton Group

Ronnie Hoye

13/05/14 – 13:08

Sorry Ronnie, an unfortunate typo crept into my comment above, the listed OB’s being those of G. Chapman (Priory Coaches), not Taylor Bros.

John Stringer

13/05/14 – 17:20

John, I note that one of the numbers listed is for the OB’s is FT 6905, as I said, I am not aware of any connection between Taylor Bros and Priory Coaches, however, Taylor Bros had a Daimler CVD6SD with C33F Burlingham body, registration FT 6909, only four away. The vehicle is pictured elsewhere on this site, and was last heard of tucked away in a corner of Wright Brothers depot in Nenthead, and awaiting restoration. The two depots were very close to each other, Priory was in Queen Street, and I think Taylor’s were literally just round the corner in Hudson Street. Another thing that I had quite forgotten, I don’t know when the business started, or if there was any connection between the two, but certainly from the end of the war until about the mid to late 60’s, the main Vauxhall / Bedford dealership in North Shields was also called Taylor Brothers, and they were on Tynemouth Road, which was only a stones throw from both the Priory and Taylor Bros depots. This is only speculation on my part, but the dealership changed hands at roughly the same time the coaches were taken over by Hall Brothers. death duties perhaps?

Ronnie Hoye

19/05/14 – 07:14

It was interesting to see the list of OB registrations from John Stringer, and they had me reaching for my Glass’s Index of registration numbers.
FT was the mark of the ‘County Borough Council of Tynemouth’, and was the mark allocated to it, when it became a County Borough, and commenced issuing registrations as and from 1st October 1904.
FT ran from then until January 1957.
John shows TF 5666 being registered on April 1946, and must have been only the 2nd vehicle licensed that year, because the year started at FT 5665.
Similarly in 1948 the year started at 6276, with FT 6281 being only the 6th licensed. It can be seen therefore that it was a very slow moving mark.
So it took 53 years to issue 10,000 marks, (an average of less than 200 a year), it must have been an easy job working in the Motor Vehicle Taxation Office in Tynemouth

Stephen Howarth

19/05/14 – 15:35

The DVLA seem to have stumbled upon a nice little earner in unused Tynemouth FT registrations. The BBC George Gently series is set in the early 70’s, in a recent episode I noticed an Austin with a numbers first LFT registration. Tynemouth did get as far as three letters followed by the numbers, but never with the numbers first. Incidentally, the 1 numbers, AFT 1 – BFT 1 Etc, were all Tynemouth Police vehicles.

Ronnie Hoye

20/05/14 – 16:33

The county borough of Tynemouth got as far as the start of the KFT series before it changed to AFT —B! It must have been getting a little busier in Tynemouths motor taxation office…

Tom Carr

20/05/14 – 17:20

I think we may have our wires crossed here, Tom. The first three letter FT registrations delivered to Tynemouth and District were the 1957 Willowbrook bodied Leyland PD2/12’s, they were AFT 49/53, but AFT 1 was an Austin Westminster for Tynemouth Police, and the first of every issue up to KFT were also Police vehicles. The fist issue with a suffix was in 1965 ‘C’ but the letters reverted to AFT. Under the local boundary changes of 1974, FT became a Tyne and Wear registration.

Ronnie Hoye

21/05/14 – 08:08

It wouldn’t have required a great deal of intelligence for the local villains to spot the unmarked police cars, then, Ronnie.

Roger Cox

15/06/14 – 07:57

Tom is quite right – Tynemouth got as far as KFT 333 before starting the year suffixes with AFT 1B in August 1964.
And he’s not wrong to say that it must have been getting busier in Tynemouth’s motor taxation office – by October 1974, they had reached the VFT-N series whereas Gateshead, which had made it as far as SCN 56 before adopting the year suffixes in July 1964, had only reached the RCN-N series…

Des Elmes

18/03/15 – 07:05

AFT 1 was also on a Humber Super Snipe which came chauffeur driven when I was a lad to pick Chief Constable J. J. Scott up who lived diagonally opposite my grandmothers.

Eddie Hill

Mid-Wales Motorways – Bedford OB – BEP 882

Mid-Wales Motorways - Bedford OB - BEP 882

Mid-Wales Motorways
1951
Bedford OB
Duple B29F

BEP 882 is a Bedford OB from the Mid-Wales Motorways fleet. She is seen at Dunsfold, on one of the occasions the “Wisley” rally wasn’t held at Wisley, on 10 April, 2011. She has a Duple B29F body and dates from 1951.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

Tanner’s Services – Bedford OB – HOT 339

Tanner’s Services - Bedford OB - HOT 339

Tanner’s Services (Banbury)
1950
Bedford OB
Duple C27F

Here is another example of the Bedford OB with Duple C27F bodywork. Seen here in the livery of Tanner’s Services of Banbury, she was new in 1950 to the fleet of Grace, Alresford – the town at the ‘country’ end of the Mid Hants line. She’s seen here in the St Catherine’s park and ride car park in Winchester for the King Alfred Running Day on 1 January 2009.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

14/04/17 – 07:46

HOT 339, was owned by a couple of old friends of mine in Sutton Surrey. We took seats out so when we went on holiday in it we could sleep on the floor! That was in late 60s/early 70s. Coach was in Brown Motor Services livery!

Alan

15/04/17 – 07:49

The Mid Hants line between Alton and Winchester was regrettably and foolishly closed by British Rail in 1972, by which time it was worked by the SR “Thumper” DEMUs. I travelled on it very many times. The Alton -Alresford section is now the preserved Watercress Line. This OB was new to Grace in 1950, but, in 1952, it was purchased by A. T. Brady of Forest Green, t/a Brown Motor Services. When Brady retired in October 1970, the entire Brown Motor Services fleet and route network passed to J. D. Wylde’s North Downs Rural Transport. I worked for this operator at weekends away from my LCBS desk, in the course of which I drove HOT 339 a number of times. North Downs collapsed in the Spring of 1972, the fleet, by then consisting mostly of Albion Nimbus and Bristol LS types, was dispersed far and wide.

Roger Cox

29/09/17 – 07:45

Just happened across this thread. Travelled home from school (Holmbury-Guildford) on HOT in 1966 when she substituted for the regular Brady/Brown Bedford VAS 3255 PJ. Glad she’s still going strong. Wonder if Brady’s Nimbus is still around?

Macintosh

30/09/17 – 05:25

To fill in some more history of HOT 339. On dispersal from J D Wylde it went to Odd of Cheam (believed to be Dennis Odd) c/72, an early bus preservationist/collector.
Then to Whitehead of Tooting (date & use unknown) & to Andy Stopford, Tunbridge Wells for a caravan circa 9/85.
It was acquired by current owners, Bill & Connie Barton of Banbury in -/01 who restored it back to a coach. The Tanners livery was a company who Connie drove an OB for in her earlier life.

John Wakefield

02/10/17 – 07:23

The original operator of this coach, D G Grace of Alresford, trading as Grace Line, took over the local bus services of Blue Bus Services (also of Alresford) between that town and Winchester in 1949. This service operated until 14th August 1953, when Grace Line ceased to trade. After that date, Aldershot & District assumed the monopoly of services between Alresford and Winchester.
HOT 339 had operated on the service between the two towns when it was brand new, so its appearance at the King Alfred running day in Winchester in 2009 represented a welcome return to the city for this much travelled coach.

petras409

09/11/17 – 07:06

Brady’s Albion Nimbus is still about. Owned by travellers I believe.

Trevor

01/01/19 – 08:41

Hot 339 was owned, in the 70’s, by Alan Whitehart, booking clerk at West Sutton railway station and was mostly parked outside the station, which has since been demolished. I used to go to various bus rallies on HOT 339 in her Browns Motor Services livery and Alan would even fire her up to do an all stations run to Wimbledon if a train was cancelled…proper old school railwayman!

Shane

Richards Bros – Bedford OB – MDE 666

MDE 666

Richards Bros (Moylgrove)
1950
Bedford OB
Duple C29F

Bedford OB chassis number 140900 was new to Richards Bros, Moylgrove, Cardiganin in August 1950 with Duple Vista body 49265. After being withdrawn from service it stood idle at  the old Moylgrove depot for several years but this wonderful rebuild was returned from Cobus to Richards in October 2015. Seen here on a debut appearance at Cardigan’s Barley Saturday event. Looks good – sounds wonderful!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

09/05/16 – 05:30

‘Looks good, sounds wonderful’ – a fair variation of a brewery advert from around forty years ago, and I’m sure the sight and sound of the reality ‘does you good’ as the advert continued. Thanks for posting. I have some (bought) views of the operator, but they don’t include this one. The livery is unusual, and may or may not appeal to some of our readers, but to the customers? Well, it was distinctive – no chance of confusion with a neighbouring or rival operator!

Pete Davies

09/05/16 – 08:25

Thanks for your input to this (and other) postings on this site Pete. There are colour photos of a number of vehicles, including a Titan, in this livery in my book. They generally suggest that the red was a a tad more maroon than here and that the blue was a shade towards air-force blue. One of Tony Moyes’ photos of this very bus shows the shades that I remember seeing on my arrival in Cardigan however a Peter Yeomans’ shot of SB BDE 800C is much closer to the colours shown above. In general these colours were used from the very early days of Richards Bros but I suspect that maybe slight variations were tried over the years.

Les

09/05/16 – 16:54

MDE 666 has not stayed in the ownership of Richards since new to them. By 12/01 it had passed to Philip James of Blaenporth for preservation/restoration but after stripping the body down Mr James did no further work on it.
In 6/09 he sold it to Cobus, who in turn sold it back to Richards after restoration.

John Wakefield

Lincolnshire – Bedford OB – LTA 752 – 1004

LTA 752_01
LTA 752_02

Lincolnshire Road Car Company
1950
Bedford OB
Duple B27F

LTA 752 is a Bedford OB with Duple B27F body, new to Western National in 1950, but seen here in Lincolnshire colours as a ‘semi toastrack’ for seafront duties at Skegness. The first views shows it in winter guise, while the second view shows it in summer guise. The first view, taken on the 1st January 2009 shows it visiting the King Alfred running day in Winchester, while the second view shows it in the Alton rally on 18 July 2010. I understand that, by 2012, it was with that very well maintained historic fleet of Lodge, High Easter.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

03/11/16 – 06:24

Like many Sheffielders at the time, the Dickinson family had holidays in Skegness. Four of these OBs were employed on the Skeggie sea-front service. Two were open both sides, the other two were only open on the nearside. Numbered 2091/2/3/4, the one pictured was 2094 at the time and came to LRCC, along with 2091, from Western National. 2092/3 came from Eastern National. For this young enthusiast they had to be ridden on each holiday.

Les Dickinson

03/11/16 – 06:25

LTA 752 is indeed with Lodge, Coaches of High Easter. lots of pics of it on Flickr.
It now has an entrance door to comply with latest rules & regulations. (cant have passengers falling out can we) Its the only survivor from those OB’s modified (by Duple) as open siders for Lincs Road Car on Skegness sea front service

John Wakefield

03/11/16 – 08:21

Oooh! I’d have insisted going to Skeggie as a child rather than as an adult if I’d known these beauties were doing the seafront duties! And all for 2d each way!

Chris Hebbron

04/11/16 – 06:20

The other plates were as follows;- 2091 -HUO 692; 2092 – ONO 88; 2093 – ONO 89. The first from 1947, the other two 1950. All these three to LRCC in 1958 I believe.

Les Dickinson

05/11/16 – 06:25

Just think 110 miles South and 2d to go “All The Way” would have a quite different connotation.
I’ll keep the day job!

John Lomas

17/11/16 – 07:07

Was this the bus which appeared on Watchdog tonight-but blue: the seats are distinctive…

Joe

17/11/16 – 10:52

LTA 752_3
LTA 752_4

Here are a couple of shots of mine of LTA by now in the Lodge era, arriving in style at the LVVS Open Day event, March 2013. During the day, it was offloaded, and the window panels removed, revealing the full “toastrack effect”

Rob Hancock

Porters – Bedford OB – HOD 75

Porters - Bedford OB - HOD 75

Porters (Dummer)
1949
Bedford OB
Duple C29F

HOD 75 was new to Western National in 1949. It has a Duple C29F body on the Bedford OB chassis, and the first view shows it in the Southsea rally on 8 June 1980. In this view it is in the livery of Porters of Dummer, near Basingstoke.

Porters - Bedford OB - HOD 75

This second view, taken in The Broadway, Winchester, and shows it in the markings of Mervyn’s Coaches of Innersdown, also near Basingstoke. It is about to pass NXL 847,  AEC Regal from Eastern Belle. The date is 1st January 2009 and it’s another King Alfred running day.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

03/04/17 – 08:43

In case anyone is (a) not familiar with the area and (b) interested, Dummer is the home village of Sarah Ferguson, Price Andrew’s “ex”.

Pete Davies

04/04/17 – 07:05

Is this the same OB that turns up in all those wartime dramas pretending to be ten years older than it is?

Ronnie Hoye

04/04/17 – 08:45

Not ten years Ronnie. It was in Foyles War from 1941/42, and I think Miss Marple – So only seven years ish.

Pat Jennings

20/05/18 – 06:08

I’m pretty certain that was the exact same coach that used to take us to school there was two that took us and Porters rotated them sometimes we had the vintage one in the photo and other times we had their ultra modern brand new one.

Paul

14/11/20 – 08:01

It appears in “Woman in Black Angel of Death”, supposedly in 1941 – eight years before it was built!

Ed

16/11/20 – 06:09

Not as bad as the Routemaster that turned up in Foyles War.
For a moment I thought I was watching Dr Who, and the Tardis had changed its disguise.

Ronnie Hoye

17/11/20 – 06:20

I understand that the series of Foyle’s War was filmed in Dublin, and the Routemaster was all that was available there.

Peter Williamson

Royal Household – Bedford J2 – PYY 28D

Royal Household
1966
Bedford J2SZ2
Duple C10F

Here is a view of PYY 28D. She is a Bedford J2SZ2, built for use as a Staff Bus for the Royal Household. The bodywork is a Duple Midland C10F. She started life with registration KLP 1D with the Royal Household and is seen at the National Tramway Museum, Crich, on 30 August 2004. The livery appears to be black. but it is really an incredibly dark and highly-polished green.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

05/12/13 – 06:57

Incredible, Pete. I’d forgotten all about this beast – but cannot remember where I saw it last.

David Oldfield

05/12/13 – 08:41

A fine vehicle indeed, and one that I’ve never heard of before. Presumably the impeccable dark green livery means it was supplied by Harrods “by appointment to H. M. The Queen, suppliers of motor omnibuses” – sorry, just another of my infantile mischievous thoughts !!

Chris Youhill

05/12/13 – 08:58

Nice one Chris – but don’t mock. You never know.

David Oldfield

05/12/13 – 11:39

I believe that ‘purveyors’ is the word, rather than ‘suppliers’, Chris! Much more classy!
What is the current situation of the vehicle? Many ‘royal’ vehicles/trains/yachts have very cossetted and long lives – is this one of them?
It’s a very stylish vehicle which hasn’t really dated.

Chris Hebbron

05/12/13 – 11:40

This is a very nice looking coach – reminds me of the Maidstone & District Knightrider in it’s livery style (although the M&D one was really black, I think). But is it cheeky to ponder why the Royal Household chose a Bedford coach? Why not go to their supplier of limousines, Daimler? A few years earlier, and they could have had that rarity, a Daimler Freeline. But in 1966, I suppose they would have had a Roadliner supplied to them – perhaps they had already heard of it’s reputation!

Michael Hampton

05/12/13 – 11:43

There was also a Bedford VAS3 with a Willowbrook DP20F body new in 1972. This vehicle had an outward opening door. It was often seen at Aberdeen railway station taken staff and luggage to and from Balmoral. This vehicle is now preserved as RBY 764 K.

Stephen Bloomfield

05/12/13 – 15:06

…..but before…..
The Monarch’s current ride is a Bentley.
The prior ride was a Rolls Royce.
Before that, they used Daimler cars – but pre-war it was Crossley cars…..

David Oldfield

05/12/13 – 15:07

Chris H,
She appears in the PSVC listing for 2012. That’s where I obtained the detail of her previous registration. Has anyone heard any rumblings about when the next issue may be out?
Think yourselves lucky, folks, as you nearly got a jet fighter after I hit the wrong button. Peter spotted the mistake before I did!

Pete Davies

05/12/13 – 17:51

By chance, Chris Youhill is nearly right because the Queen does use Harrods for her transport requirements.
In this instance, it is D & H Harrod Coaches of Downham Market, Norfolk who are “By appointment to her Majesty the Queen, Suppliers of Coach Hire”

Nigel Turner

06/12/13 – 06:36

I’m sure this is the one that was at the Kirkby Stephen Easter rally this year. I’ve seen it a couple of times at recent rallies.
I believe it has recently been advertised for sale in Bus and Coach Preservation magazine.

Eric Bawden

06/12/13 – 08:22

D-H_Harrod_Creast

Very good, Nigel. For the benefit of those including me who have always thought it was HARROLD, here’s a view of the Warrant. It is indeed HARROD.

Pete Davies

17/12/13 – 06:48

I can’t let the comment about Maidstone & District’s Knightrider coach go uncorrected. It was indeed a dark refined colour, quite different from the fleet colours. Although it might look black in black & white photographs – and some colour renditions, too – it was in fact dark blue.

Petras409

17/12/13 – 14:26

Thank you Petras for your correction re the livery of M&D’s Knightrider coach. It makes the comparison with the Royal Household coach more pertinent, as both could appear black to a casual observer, but are actually very refined liveries in their respective colours.

Michael Hampton

17/12/13 – 15:07

Petras409 makes reference to the Maidstone and District Knightrider livery of dark blue. I have recently acquired a M&D cap badge which is dark blue and not the usual Green. I was informed that it was for staff working on the Knightrider, can anybody confirm this?
A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all

Stephen Howarth

19/12/13 – 06:50

Coaches belonging to Charles Rickards of London (later Frames Rickards) carried the Royal Warrant for many years. I imagine that there will be other operators, in addition to Harrod’s, with a Royal Warrant. Downham Market seems nicely placed for Sandringham.

David Call

30/05/15 – 06:54

PYY 28D has now reverted to KLP 1D and was seen at The Llandudno Transport Festival in May with these plates, and a check on DVLA web site confirms this.

John Wakefield

31/05/15 – 06:43

It would seem that the Knightrider was named after M&D’s head office, based in Knightrider House, Knightrider Street.
Was this coach designed for special work or what?

Chris Hebbron

06/06/15 – 08:10

NKN 650

Yes the Knightrider coach was designated into a series of its own LC1 (Luxury Coach), but was never operated in public service. It was effectively a directors’ limousine, used for high profile visits to outposts of the Maidstone & District empire. Its 16 leather seats were sumptuously laid out in a version of the Harrington Wayfarer body, mounted on a petrol engined Commer Avenger chassis
It was kept in a state of permanent readiness at Sittingbourne depot, in fine fettle, but clocked up a very low mileage.
The picture from the web (Commons copyright free) shows its midnight blue livery well. NKN 650 survives in restoration and must have involved very little restorative work by its current owners, after its undemanding life with M&D.
I was privileged to have a ride in it, on the occasion of a colleague’s retirement bash, while still with M&D. It provided such a quiet, refined ride. Possibly the most luxurious coach ride of my life – the only thing that was missing was the gin & tonic from the cocktail cabinet. This last comment is a lifestyle point, not a definitive statement about the presence (or absence) of such a fitment.

Petras409

07/06/15 – 06:19

Thx, Petras409 for the fulsome explanation and additional photo. In those days, a petrol engine still had the cache of seeming luxurious over a diesel. Did it have a Bedford engine, Petras?

Chris Hebbron

07/06/15 – 06:21

Interesting comment from Petras about “Knightrider” in respect of the drinks cabinet. Grossly off topic, I know, but readers might find this amusing.
I was using my ‘old dodders’ bus pass’ a few months ago, and was in Southsea, returning to Southampton. A lady in a wheelchair boarded, and commented on how old the bus was (S prefix, 1998). “Where’s the wide screen television?” she asked. “And the drinks machine?” The driver replied that he’d been naughty, and had been given this one by way of punishment (I suppose it’s better than a school run!) A few minutes later the lady had managed to fit the wheelchair into the space, and apologised thus: “Sorry about the delay in settling, folks, but my wheelchair’s put on a few extra inches since Christmas!”

Pete Davies

07/06/15 – 06:23

Why did M&D feel the need to have a dedicated Directors coach (Salford’s Committee coach comes to mind here)? I suppose at Salford there wouldn’t have been any other “suitable” [sic] vehicle for the Transport Committee to travel in, but surely M&D had enough front-line coaches to put one at the disposal of the Directors – neighbours Southdown and East Kent (companies with a similar commitment to coaching, and others such as BMMO and Ribble) didn’t feel the need for this extravagance . . . or was that the point, keeping ahead of the Jones’s?

Philip Rushworth

20/11/15 – 06:48

For Chris Hebbron’s information the Commer Avenger petrol engine was a six cylinder OHV Humber unit as also used in the Imperial Limousine and in the Commer QX lorry. For the Avenger and the QX it was mounted at an angle of 60 degrees to reduce intrusion into the cab.

Stephen Allcroft

17/10/16 – 09:08

>

Just to revert back to this post, I am trying to trace a subsequent Bedford that also carried the KLP 1D mark.
This was a 1985 Bedford PJK chassis No FT103932 with a cut down Duple Dominant 2 body C16F No 8507/0600 new to Kensington Palace in 6/85. This appeared on eBay in July 2014 with seats removed after an aborted attempt to turn it into a caravan. It was sold to a number plate dealer who sold off the KLP 1D mark to the owner of the J2 (PYY 28D) which is now re united with its original mark.
The PJK was reported to have been sold on with another (unknown) registration number to a school or charity organisation possibly for a greenhouse! I am trying to trace this vehicle so if anyone spots it or knows where it is I would like to know through this website.
The pic shows it in 2014 when it appeared on eBay.

John Wakefield

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

08/11/17 – 07:15

KLP 1D

On 5th Nov, I was at the Lincoln Vintage Vehicle Society running event, and noticed this little charmer parked up among the other smaller exhibits. I thought, I have seen this somewhere before, and yes, it is there in the OBP site in some earlier guise. It carried various window displays about its illustrious history and the front window card stated “Lincoln via Aidensfield” which suggests where it had been in the recent past.

Rob Hancock

09/11/17 – 07:09

The Duple Dominant Royal coach has been found at Sutton House & Breakers Yard a National Trust property at 2-4 Homerton High Street, Hackney, London. Its been made into a greenhouse with the chassis and floor cut away to give ground level access.
Here is a link to pics of KLP 1D https://www.flickr.com/ and a link to the Sutton House web site. https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk

John Wakefield

10/11/17 – 06:46

If you are on a site which doesn’t readily accept right click Copy & Paste. You can usually use Ctrl C for copy and Ctrl V for paste.

John Lomas

Carmel Coaches – Albion Victor – LOD 495

Carmel Coaches - Albion Victor - LOD 495

Carmel Coaches
1950
Albion Victor
Duple C??F

As there appears to be no picture of this lovely coach on OBP , I am attaching one. It has been in preservation for many years with Carmel Coaches of Northlew in Devon and can still be seen at local events in the West Country. It was for a while used on Dartmoor Summer Sunday services connecting with trains – and other bus services – at the then newly restored Southern Region station at Okehampton. Initially the route was the 174 to Moretonhampstead where it met the cross Dartmoor 82 between Exeter and Plymouth. For a couple of glorious summers, the 174 was extended onto Widecombe in the Moor using some very narrow lanes. The Albion coped well with the lanes and the hills including the very steep one into Widecombe. One difficulty was with other traffic as visitors and indeed locals seemed to be unable/unwilling to reverse their vehicles in these lanes. This became a major problem when the Pony Club had their occasional meet on the Moor as their exodus with large vehicles or trailers – all at the same time – coincided with the last journey from Widecombe which had to connect with the said 82 and the last train at Okehampton. The owner of the Albion, who was the regular drive on almost every Summer Sunday over the years, was always patient and courteous and I am grateful to him for the opportunities to ride the coach.
The photo is taken at Hound Tor before the steep descent into Widecombe.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Keith Newton

28/08/17 – 10:12

This is a Victor FT39N powered by the Albion 75 bhp 4.88 litre four cylinder diesel engine that was delivered new to Way of Crediton in 1950. I believe that the gearbox is a five speed constant mesh unit. Nowhere can I find the stated capacity of the Duple bodywork, but this was usually 31 or 33.

Roger Cox

29/08/17 – 06:36

Roger,
My 1993 edition of Preserved Buses, Trolleys and Trams gives LOD 495 as an FT39AN with a Duple FC31F body.

Dave Farrier

30/08/17 – 07:57

Thanks for that confirmation about the bodywork, Dave. As for the chassis designation, this is FT39AN as you state, but it was often shortened with the ‘A’ omitted. Why? I don’t know, or indeed what the letter itself stood for. The final ‘N’ indicated the “normal” 16ft wheelbase, the longer 16ft 11ins version having the letter ‘L’ instead. The ‘A’ cannot have indicated an initial variant because the post 1956 versions became the FT39KAN and KAL. Perhaps it indicated forward control, but I know of no normal control examples. I have to admit that the some of the (pre Leyland) Albion company’s type numbering seemed to have no logical basis that I can discover. The initial Viking/Valkyrie/Valiant/Victor were classified as PA/PB/PC etc up to PW which clearly meant successive passenger variants. Then came the Venturer M81 and the Valorous M85, which were superseded in 1937 by the Valkyrie and Venturer CX. After WW2 the Victor name reappeared as the FT as seen above, contemporary with Valiant/Viking/Venturer models all classified CX, and the KP underfloor model. Then under Leyland ownership came the Nlmbus MR9 and the Aberdonian MR11, though the latter had no design similarity with the shorter Nimbus, being essentially a lighter weight version of the Tiger Cub. Then some degree of logic returned with NS for Nimbus (again with AN suffix), LR for Lowlander, VT for Victor, VK for Viking, before the Albion name disappeared forever. (Another firm with puzzling model designations was Thornycroft, but that is by the way.)

Roger Cox

31/08/17 – 04:56

At risk of seeming foolish, did the A stand for Albion (engine)? Valorous belongs to the Wulfrunian school of bus naming & then Valkyrie? With whole dictionaries to go at!
I’ll stick, BMW/Mercedes style with CVD6 and K6A!

Joe

01/09/17 – 05:48

Possibly, Joe, but why didn’t the contemporary Albion engined Venturer CX19 and CX37, Valiant CX39, Viking CX41 (a variant of which was called the HD61 – again why?) and the experimental KP71NW have the ‘A’ also? The numbers, always odds rather than evens, seem to have had some sequential logic albeit with gaps, though the number 39 was duplicated for the Victor and Valiant models. Perhaps Bletchley Park could come up with the answers to the Albion nomenclature.

Roger Cox

01/09/17 – 05:49

In John Gillham’s book “Buses and Coaches 1945-1965”, he says that the FT 39 Victor was introduced in early 1947, and that a modified version, known as the “FT 39 AN” appeared at the end of 1951, with the long wheelbase “FT 39 AL” following some three years later. The same thing happened to the Nimbus in 1960, when the NS3N was replaced by the NS3AN.
I take this to mean that the A was just a spec-update marker, rather as Leyland would later use it on PSU3A (and on to G), AN68A etc.

Graham Woods

01/09/17 – 05:50

Roger, according to definitive book ‘Albion of Scotstoun’ (Adama & Milligan) the ‘A’ suffix indicated improvements to the previous version, including a larger wormwheel assembly on the rear axle, improved braking, heavier springs, flexible radiator tubes, improved fuel filtration and minor wheelbase alterations. The insertion of the ‘K’ before the ‘A’ indicated a later variant fitted with the larger EN287 5.5 litre engine (replacing the EN286 4.88 litre unit) and heavier front springs.

John Stringer

01/09/17 – 15:19

Thank you Graham and John. That explanation does make sense. Back in its vastly superior days when Classic Bus was under Gavin Booth’s editorship it included a series of comprehensive articles on the history of the Albion passenger ranges by Alan Townsin. Sadly I gave all my copies away after being totally disenchanted with the magazine’s altered and self obsessed guise under subsequent editors. I remain rather baffled by the type letters of the heavier Albion models which all, passenger and haulage, seem to have been classified CX. In addition to the Venturer CX19 and 37, the Valiant CX39 and the Viking CX 41, there were the CX1 7 tonner, CX3 6½ tonner, CX5 12 tonner six wheeler and CX7 eight wheeler 14½ tonner. The FT3 code included a haulage version for 4 to 5 ton loads and one suspects that the straight framed FT39 Victor was a simple derivative from it. This webpage gives a list of some pre 1945 Albion types, though it is far from comprehensive in detail:- www.autogallery.org.ru/m/albion.htm

Roger Cox

02/09/17 – 08:08

Sorry to dive off the main subject but I just want to say how much I agree with Roger about Classic Bus magazine. Totally ruined by the Best Impressions outfit and a total rip-off based on the lack of content and acres of empty space on the pages. I have lapsed my subscription in disgust.
There I feel better now!

Philip Halstead

02/09/17 – 08:54

Interesting comment on Classic Bus as I feel it has gone the other way and improved enormously making it more readable and not just for the anorak which is where Gavin (an extremely knowledgeable guy) was taking it.
Best forgotten is the editor in-between.
Even if I am not totally in agreement with the content I still keep my subscriptions going as if we lose the magazines Bus & Coach History and reach to the public will be diminished and ultimately it makes the movement more fragmented

Roger Burdett

27/11/21 – 06:22

Researching this vehicle again it is pretty certainly a FT39N model of 1950, 25ft 6 ins chassis length. The engine is certainly the 4.88 litre EN 286, but the gearbox is a four speed constant mesh unit. The brakes were vacuum servo. The FT39AN, which appeared in 1951, had the engine moved forward a bit and the rear overhang extended slightly enabling 33 seats to be accommodated within the bodywork.

Roger Cox

Black and White – AEC Reliance – 8222 AD – 222


Copyright Bob Gell

Black and White Motorways
1961
AEC Reliance 2MU3RV
Duple C37C

Seen at their base in Cheltenham Coach Station on Sunday 20 August 1967 on Associated Motorways services are two members of the Black and White Motorways fleet. 182 (PAD 182) is a Willowbrook bodied Guy Arab LUF, new in 1955 and 222 (8222 AD) is a Duple bodied AEC Reliance new in 1961. Both are 37 seaters, with a centre entrance, which was standard for Black and White at the time, apart from a batch of 5 Roe Dalesman bodied Reliances new in 1959, which had 41 seats and a front entrance. The somewhat flamboyant Duple body on 222 contrasts with the restrained, classic elegance of the ECW bodied Bristol MW in Royal Blue livery alongside, also on Associated Motorways work.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Bob Gell

05/09/12 – 08:45

Another gem! I never experienced Cheltenham Coach Station, but I had two years of coach travel between Birmingham and Lancaster in the 1966/68 era. A veritable rainbow on steroids.

Pete Davies

05/09/12 – 08:46

What a great pic. Things aint what they used to be. Thanks for sharing that.

Les Dickinson

06/09/12 – 06:53

As an AEC (and Bristol) man, it’s amazing how many Guy Arab UF/LUF coaches have pitched up on this forum in recent months. I never came across one personally, but it is significant how many of you hold them in high regard and great affection.

David Oldfield

07/09/12 – 07:17

On that subject, David, in 1955 Northern General took delivery of 16 Weymann Fanfare’s, 6 on AEC chassis went to Wakefield’s, the other 10 for Northern were on Guy Arab UF/LUF and had the almost indestructible Gardner 6HLW. They had quite long lives for coaches, they were re-trimmed an re-seated by Plaxton’s in 1964 and were still around in 1968. Sadly I don’t think any survived into preservation, but to my mind the Fanfare was timeless classic that wouldn’t look out of place now

Ronnie Hoye

07/09/12 – 07:19

I worked in and out of Cheltenham from Eastbourne in the summer during the early 70’s when working for Southdown arriving to connect with the 16:00 hrs mass departure and leaving the next day with the 14:00 hrs departure these mass departures were a sight to behold looking chaotic but in reality very well organised any late arrivals contacting the control office to advise of any onward connections so that only those services needing to be held back were.
I remember the Reliance/Duple coaches by that time relegated to mainly duplicate journeys and were not very popular and known to all Black & White drivers as “Bubblecars” usually given to first season drivers who were then told to follow the service car he then found the service driver with the well known request “don’t lose me as I’ve never done this run before”. I never lost one and always felt sorry for them as I felt it was not a good way to learn any route especially one like ours which took around 7 hours. One of the station inspectors told me they could get around 140 coaches in the yard, to me it seemed they proved it on many summer Saturdays and as this was in the very early days of National white livery with many vehicles still in company colours it was a truly magnificent sight also of course there were many private company vehicles on relief journeys which added to the spectacle. Oh happy days.

Diesel Dave

08/09/12 – 07:31

I agree about the Weymann Fanfare, Ronnie.

David Oldfield

10/09/12 – 07:30

Ronnie and David, the Northern General Guy Arab LUFs with Weymann Fanfare bodies were my favourite coaches of all time – see half way down this page //sct61.org.uk

Peter Williamson

11/09/12 – 06:39

As you say on the other site, Peter, the Guy Weymann’s were extensively used on the Newcastle – Liverpool service and that was pre motorway era, so regardless of the route you took it involved a lot of up’s and downs on single carriageway roads, but it says a lot about the vehicles that they lasted as long as they did, reliability was never an issue but at times seating capacity was

Ronnie Hoye

27/05/14 – 14:00

I Remember it well driving my new 53 seater Ford with Plaxton body on dupe from Leicester to Cheltenham and ending up in Devon on service, Anyone out there remember the old Caff in Bridgewater open all night.

I Williams
Ex N & S Travel

07/03/20 – 07:25

During the late fifties to mid sixties my family travelled at least once every year from Eastbourne to Cheltenham to stay with my Aunt and family. A seven to eight hour journey through every town and village from south to north west. I, as a child thought the older coaches were very comfortable, probably Guy’s. They left Eastbourne Southdown depot in a queue, Black and White coaches being a highlight of the trip. I remember coach drivers changing places by a complex arm link dance on the move. Pretty common for those days on long trips.

Jagracer

P M T – AEC Reliance – 4990 VT – C990

Potteries Motor Traction - AEC Reliance - 4990 VT - 990

Potteries Motor Traction
1964
AEC Reliance 2U3RA
Duple C49F

Potteries Motor Traction took delivery of six of these fantastic vehicles in 1964 they had the AEC 590 engine and 6 speed ZF manual gearbox. Drivers and passengers loved them, 4989 VT won the 1964 Brighton coach rally. I have not driven a coach before or since as good as these splendid vehicles. The company got rid of these vehicles in 1976 the older drivers like myself still talk about them now, there was nothing like driving down the third lane of the M6 motorway at about 75MPH which at that time was legal. Oh happy days.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Michael Crofts

11/08/13 – 08:31

Brings back happy memories of Sheffield United Tours and Cyril (C G) Littlewood with their ZF Reliances roaring in and out of Pond Street to and from the north of Scotland, the south of England and continental venues as far away as Switzerland, Italy and Yugoslavia. As Michael says, fantastic vehicles – to ride in and to drive,

David Oldfield

14/08/13 – 11:17

Back in 1965-67 I used to do a regular monthly trip through PMT land, usually starting off with a ride from Manchester to Leek on North Western’s X1 (operated by the previous year’s Y-types, quickly relegated from the X5 to London). After a visit to Berresfords in Cheddleton I’d carry on to Hanley to see what was new with the independents there and then return to Manchester on PMT’s afternoon X2 departure.
On one occasion this was operated by this very machine which made a pleasant change – PMT were in the habit of throwing any old rubbish at this route with lowbridge Atlanteans quite common at busy times. You never realised how uncomfortable these were until you’d spent two hours on one!

Neville Mercer

31/10/13 – 07:16

I remember 4989 VT, as I sometimes travelled to School on it when it was operated by a firm from Bugbrooke Northamptonshire. They sold it in around 1975. I believe it is in that great Coach park in the sky now more’s the pity. The regular driver said it was good for 90 mph on the motorway. No Tachographs or Speed Limiters in them days!

Stemax1960

01/11/13 – 08:12

Overheating was a problem with these six coaches when driven for long periods in 6th gear such as on motorway work. Some had 6th gear blanked off which had the consequence of lowering the top speed but ensuring reasonable fan revolutions. Fleet number C991 had a tandem radiator fitted, from memory as an AEC initiative to overcome the problem. Whilst I can remember the fitment, I can’t recall the result! Too many years ago. I assume that SUT and other Operators had the same problem?

Ian Wild

01/11/13 – 13:51

I remember a journey from Great Yarmouth to Sheffield in August 1968. Part of the route was on the A1 around Newark, fast, even in those days. We were “going like stink” with our C reg, SUT, 2U3RA Reliance (with AH590) – 356-365 batch. Suddenly we were doing about 30mph – for quite some time. Later, when I questioned the driver, he said she was overheating so he slowed up to give her a chance to cool down. SUT put an experimental air scoop under the grille of B reg 349 – from 346-355 – but this was not entirely successful and was subsequently removed. As I have said before, the wet-liner AH590 – and its problems – lost AEC a lot of friends. Others like SUT and Yelloway persevered and the AH691 and AH760 repaid their persistence. Heavyweight ZF Reliances were thoroughbreds which were a delight to drive and to ride in. The AH590 let the side down.

David Oldfield