Southampton Corporation 1969 AEC 2MP2R Swift East Lancs B47D
Here are an off side front and a near side rear view of Southampton Corporation TCR 293H fleet number 7. This AEC 2MP2R Swift was built in 1969 with East Lancs B47D bodywork. She is seen in Pound Tree Road between duties. I captured her on film in April 1976. There is something odd about the name of this road, which might be resolved if the UK ever goes fully “European”. Does it refer to Kilogram or Euro? After all, there are people who think money grows on trees!
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
13/01/13 – 10:27
Please refer to the “Gallery” entry on the King Alfred Running Day for comparative views of the Strachan body on similar chassis.
Pete Davies
13/01/13 – 10:28
Not sure I like ‘peak’ at the front, but otherwise, it’s a nice design in a simple livery. I recall that Seddon bodywork had similar peaks. Sign of the time, I suppose. I think it’s fair to say that East Lancs bodies were not common along or near the South Coast. They are not too familiar to me as a Southerner. Maybe the road should be re-named Poundstretcher Road, in recognition of the country’s plight!
Chris Hebbron
13/01/13 – 15:07
No, Chris, EL bodies don’t seem to have had much of a following in the South. I think Eastbourne was the only other Municipal, plus Aldershot & District and Southdown. Southampton bought them because, as one Manager told me, they were “cheap and cheerful”!
Pete Davies
13/01/13 – 15:08
I have a picture of another Southampton Swift/Strachan, MTR 424F, which I hope to submit in a Southampton gallery at some time. As for the rarity of East Lancs bodywork “south of Watford”, you’re right, Chris. Aldershot & District and Eastbourne and Luton Corporations had them. To the east, Southend had some, and Lowestoft had a couple of PD2s in 1965. Otherwise, nothing, unless, of course, anyone else knows differently.
It occurs to me that Gideon Osborne would be looking to set up huge plantations of Pound Trees accessed by a thoroughfare called Recovery Road.
Roger Cox
13/01/13 – 17:19
Roger: just the 8 Reliances and 26 Lolines at Reading, of course. Not southern, but geographically south of Watford, there was also also Cardiff with a sizeable number; the Merthyr fleet doesn’t quite qualify as ‘south of Watford’! The Pound of Pound Tree is surely the place to which illegally parked, or similarly recalcitrant, buses would be towed; in order to suitably screen any double-deckers from public view, it would have been surrounded by trees, the traditional corrugated iron fence being insufficiently tall.
Alan Murray-Rust
13/01/13 – 17:19
East Lancs bodies south of Watford must also include Southdown’s rebodied TD4 and TD5’s carried out between 1946 and 1950 of which there were a total of fifty nine plus of course their final batch of PD2/12’s Nos789-812 considered by many to be the best of the various body builders used on that chassis. In later years East Lancs became much more popular in the region being bought by Brighton, Portsmouth, Southampton and Plymouth municipalities all outside of the sites timescale I know.
Diesel Dave
14/01/13 – 07:12
I must say, I like Alan’s theory of how the road got its name and Roger’s idea of a plantation of this sort of tree. It may be of interest that the bit of public open space to the nearside of the bus forms a gyratory layout, and is known – among bus crews at least – as WINO ISLAND. Guess why! Thank you, Dave, for your thoughts on other South Coast operators of the EL (or Neepsend!) bodywork. Almost all of Southampton’s Atlanteans had the product and almost all are too new for these pages. I think the same applies to the Brightons and Portsmouths. The Southampton ones with other bodywork came from Plymouth and were well and truly clapped out when they arrived. I look forward to Roger’s forthcoming “Southampton Gallery”!
Pete Davies
14/01/13 – 07:13
I can’t imagine how I came to forget the Southdown examples of East Lancs, Dave. I saw them many times when I popped down to Brighton from Croydon. Thanks for reminding me. I agree that the Welsh examples should be included in our survey, Alan. Cardiff is certainly south of Watford, and I doubt that the people of Merthyr would consider themselves to be “northerners” or even “midlanders”.
Roger Cox
14/01/13 – 15:34
Southdown also had 40 East Lancs bodied Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/13 saloons. The first 10 had rear entrances and the rest had centre entrances. All were later converted to front entrance OMO.
Roy Nicholson
16/06/13 – 06:55
To stray from the bus theme but to stay with the ‘Old ‘ bit, a Pound was something every village had back to Norman times, before land was enclosed by greedy landowners. Animals were grazed around the village but strays were rounded up and put in the Pound, released when a fine was paid, The connection with life today is obvious.
Roger Ingle
29/06/14 – 17:27
I cannot add anything to the debate about the name of Pound Tree Road, except to point out that for most of its length the road is between two parks, so there are plenty of trees. If there’s any corrugated iron in the area, it’s on the bus shelters. As far as East Lancs bodywork is concerned, it might have been cheap – certainly the Venture history of East Lancs reports that their tender for a batch of Mancunians was very competitive. However, it was nevertheless considered to be of good quality, being both substantially built and well finished. The most notable weakness was a tendency to change minor details on every batch of vehicles! I worked for the Transport Department during part of the 1980s, and the engineers were happy with the EL products. SCT did later acquire about a dozen Park Royal/Roe bodied Atlanteans from Plymouth, but as Pete Davies says above, they were past their best, but the interiors were also very utilitarian. Maybe that was down to the operator, but Park Royal seemed to have been on to a cost reduction ‘tick’ since the Leyland PD2s and AEC Regents of the very early 1960s. I must confess that I quite liked the look of these four Swifts, as the EL single deck styling was subtly different to the contemporary BET design, which had several imitators. Of course. it wasn’t as good as ECW bodied RE, but an interesting contrast. I think the peak at the front, that Chris Hebbron refers to, is a result of the rather high set Swift chassis. A rather neater effect could be achieved on a Bristol RE chassis, with the accompanying benefit of a better mechanical setup!
West Bridgford Urban District Council 1965 AEC Renown East Lancs H44/31F
Not many Urban District Council’s had there own bus concern but West Bridgford which is on the outskirts of Nottingham was one of them. The council started the bus service to connect to the Nottingham tram system which did not get as far as West Bridgford in 1913. It is a shame how it all ended for West Bridgford Urban District Council but they had to save money because of a drop off in passengers and tried to introduce one man operation with three AEC Swifts. Unfortunately the union would not go along with it so they decided to cut there losses and sell to Nottingham Corporation in 1968. There is a very interesting historic article regarding West Bridgford Urban District Council transport here on the website of Peter Gould.
Just browsing the internet and I find a great piece of nostalgia. I lived in Nottingham in the 50s/60s and I definitely would have travelled on this bus many times. The photo is taken at the old Broad Marsh bus station, which at that time was situated on an area of flattened land following the demolition of old Victorian back-to-back terraced houses. Note the red of several old Barton buses/coaches in the background. They shared the bus station, along with South Notts and Nottingham Corporation Transport. The bus shows route number 68 to Clifton (where I lived) via Trent Bridge, which was a joint operation with South Notts and Nottingham Corporation Transport.
KC
This takes me back to when I was a young lad about 14 West Bridgford Urban District Council ran a free service from Clifton to the supermarket advertised on the side of the above bus “Gem” which is where Asda is now. I used to travel a lot to Gem on this service with my mum, and I used to use the service some times as a way of getting into town for free.
Andrew
Great images of a much lamented and long departed fleet. Just one small, probably nit-picking, comment – West Bridgford has no “e” in it.
Neil Woodcock
Looking at the photo again, I definitely travelled on that bus many times as a kid because I’ve noticed something on it which used to intrigue me even then. Look at the entrance area; there is a metal pole in the middle running full height. I always assumed that was added at a later stage, to deal with some distorting or bodywork rigidity problem. Or was it always designed to be there?
KC
This looks like a very modern bus, most of the fleet were very old, we called them “Wessers” I lived in Clifton 1953 – 68 and often caught one of the wrecks into Nottingham. When you waited at one of the stops in Clifton, everyone groaned when one of these dinosaurs turned up! Because they had to use the Wilford route they were very low, to get under the railway bridge, and the upstairs was ok if you were a midget! the gangway was sunken into the floor at one side and the seats were “fourers”. Happy days!
Stuart Wisher
I also took this bus between Clifton and Nottingham and to Gem Supermarket many times. I agree with what Stew Wisher says – I’d forgotten about little details – for example how people would groan when they saw an old bus coming going by the long route via Wilford Lane. By the way – I remember Stew Wisher from Fairham! I lived in Clifton on Bainton Grove between 1953 and 1976. I have now been living in Rabat, Morocco for many years – you should see the buses here!
James Gould
Until Clifton Bridge over thee Trent opened (in 1958 I think) all Clifton services ran via Wilford Lane, as Stewart and James will remember. It was a tri-partite joint service with Nottingham City Transport, South Notts and WBUDC, so all were running lowbridge buses. When the estate was first built about 1950 NCT (who until that time had no lowbridge buses and only a very small fleet of single deckers) bought a few second hand Utilities from somewhere “up north” as a stop-gap. About 1953 they bought 10 new AEC Regent IIIs with Park Royal lowbridge bodies (SAU 199-208). Later when the new bridge was opened, the NCT share of the routes was diverted that way with full height double deckers from the brand new fleet of Leyland PD2/40s (1 ATO-45 ATO). Interestingly, for many years afterwards the route numbers remained common to all three operators (61, 61A, 66, 67 and 68) even though the NCT share took a different route to the city.
Stephen Ford
07/03/11 – 09:27
The AEC Renown photo flummoxed me because I lived on Eltham Road in West Bridgford from 1947 until after the demise of WBUDC buses in 1968, and this was near to the entrance to the depot, so I saw dozens of their buses every day on their way in and out. I cannot remember EVER seeing such a bus! I was very familiar with the fleet, including the low roof jobs used on the Wilford Lane route to Clifton. In addition my mother was a clippie during the war years, and my uncle Bill Whitten was a driver throughout the 50’s and early 60’s. I just cannot reconcile the photo with my memories. I rode probably thousands of times on the 14 and 21 routes too, and again the photo means nothing. Quite a mystery, and I wonder if it was a one-off purchase that was not retained….
Brian Marshall
08/03/11 – 06:11
Peter Gould’s site, referred to above, has a fleet list as well as a historical article. There were two Renowns, 41 and 42 purchased 4/65. They passed with the rest of the fleet to Nottingham 9/68, where they were renumbered 393 and 394.
Peter Williamson
05/06/11 – 14:30
The West Bridgford fleet was a good fleet even the oldest members being well looked after .when NCT took over the buses, the ones that were kept ran well and used all over the system I know because I worked in WBUDC workshops I started as a tyre fitter at WBUDC in 1959 then driving for NCT then back to Bridgford in 1967 as a tyre fitter till take over to NCT 1968
John Turton
05/12/11 – 06:26
As a lad growing up in WB in the early to late 1940s I remember all the old WBUDC buses. They seemed to have only one, two or three of each type. I don’t know the technical details but some registration numbers come back to me such as ARR 831 and 832, FNN 101-3, and there were two even older buses usually kept at the back of the Depot on Abbey Road which were included in NCT’s stock after the takeover. One of them is illustrated in John Banks/GHF Atkins books on Nottingham City Transport which are full of nostalgia. I think that at some stage I must have travelled on every WBUDC route apart from perhaps the No.12 (Seymour Road). Does anybody know if any WBUDC buses were saved?
Alan Rose
08/12/11 – 06:41
The only preserved ex-West Bridgford vehicle I’m aware of is no.24, CCX 777, the ex-Huddersfield Daimler CWA6. But despite having spent longer with West Bridgford than it did with Huddersfield, it has never carried West Bridgford livery in preservation.
Peter Williamson
08/12/11 – 15:35
I don’t know if it still exists, but certainly up to 1995 WBUDC 21 (ORR 140) was preserved. This was one of the lowbridge manual gearbox AEC Regent IIIs with Willowbrook body, bought by the UDC in 1954. Does anyone know of its whereabouts (or fate)?
Stephen Ford
08/12/11 – 15:37
Peter There is a second ex West Bridgford bus in preservation, 21 (ORR 140), one of the pair of lowbridge Willowbrook bodied Regent IIIs new in 1954. It is preserved in WB livery and was active in the 70s and early 80s. I understand an extensive renovation has recently been completed, so hopefully it may be out and about again soon.
Bob Gell
11/12/11 – 11:22
Thank you both. I regard WBUDC as having had one of the best of municipal liveries, and it would be good to see it in the metal again.
Peter Williamson
11/12/11 – 16:53
There’s a picture, now about forty years old, of WBUDC 21 next to the Huddersfield (ex-WBUDC) utility, taken I think at a Rochdale Motorcade. It is in my Pikfu gallery, having been on Fotopic until they went under. As Pikfu is still very much under development I have no control over the watermark, which is a bit obtrusive. It can be found at: //davidbeilby.pikfu.net
David Beilby
11/10/12 – 15:59
I remember the AEC Renown appearing with South Wales in the early 1960s. There were two batches – the first by Park Royal, and the later ones by Willowbrook. They worked on routes formerly operated by either low height regents or Bridgemasters. There was one unique Renown. Local operator West Wales bought one, Willowbrook bodied and resplendent in a grey livery with red trim, to operate on the joint service from Swansea to Llandeilo. South Wales also had ten of the former six wheel single decker Renowns – they survived until about 1955.
Mark Lee Inman
13/10/12 – 06:31
Mark, according to BBF18 the first batch of South Wales Renowns were the first in service anywhere.
Peter Williamson
14/10/12 – 14:40
There is mention above of the preserved AEC Regent III/Willowbrook ORR140. This photo was taken at the AEC Rally in May of this year, showing its current condition.
Bob Gell
31/10/12 – 17:35
It would seem the biggest user of the Bridgemaster was Western Welsh taking 31 in all. They also had three Renowns delivered in 1965 part of a batch of 28. Thankfully WW did not have any of the frightful front entrance Bridgemasters that S Wales received from Park Royal. They were frightful! The WW Renowns had very smart Northern Counties bodywork.
Mark Lee Inman
02/11/13 – 17:50
I have just read the extremely interesting details on your Nottingham page from Michael Elliott regarding the vehicle allocations between NCT South Notts and WBUDC on the Clifton services. Please could anyone out there tell me how many vehicles of each fleet were allocated to the West Bridgford town services.
David Beardsell
03/11/13 – 08:52
Talking of Renowns, could anyone confirm which were two-pedal (i.e. monocontrol)? ‘Bus Lists On The Web’ only gives two as 3B2RA (the ‘King Alfred’ ones) but it is my understanding that there were a further eight – these two West Bridgford, the five Wolverhampton, and the prototype 8071ML. Can anyone confirm? Surprisingly, ‘Bus Lists On The Web’ doesn’t mention either of the prototypes. An interesting thing about the Nottingham/West Bridgford Renowns – the operator buying the most Renowns new was City Of Oxford (43), but the operator running the most altogether was Nottingham (44 – the 42 bought new, and the two ex-West Bridgford).
David Call
03/11/13 – 08:54
David B, the only true town services that WBUDC operated were routes 1 and 2 run at school times (to the Grammar School I think) from different parts of WB – so probably one vehicle each, as they were converging on the school at the same time. All of the other WBUDC services were joint operations with NCT to Nottingham South Parade (which is the south side of the Old Market Square). The route numbers (excluding Clifton) were 11, 12, 14, 15, 15A, 21 and 24. I don’t know the vehicle split on those routes. It always seemed about 50/50. Maybe Michael will be able to come in with vehicle numbers. South Notts played no part in these operations – only the Clifton services. Clifton was a strange case, because until Clifton Bridge was opened in 1958, the only route from Nottingham to Clifton estate (which was part of the city) was over Trent Bridge and through West Bridgford, who therefore demanded a slice of the action. It appears to have been quite an acrimonious wrangle before the traffic commissioners.
Stephen Ford
12/11/13 – 06:15
David B/Stephen, The NCT/WBUDC Joint Operation Agreements (the original of 15/9/27 and the subsequent agreement, when services were extended from Grey Friar Gate to the Old Market Square, dated 30/6/30)provided for an equal split of vehicles between the two operators. I have some details of the split between the two operators as the situation was in 1968. For the 15/15a the split at Monday to Friday peak periods was two buses each, with the off peak/evening Monday to Friday split being one bus each. On Sunday the split was one bus each. On Saturdays the split was two buses each during the day with one bus each during the evening. So a 50/50 split here. For the 21 I only have information for the Monday to Friday operation. The split for Monday to Friday peak operation was West Bridgford five buses and NCT four buses. The inter peak period appears to be West Bridgford three buses to NCT’s one (but NCT provided the three extra buses required for the mid day peak service). During the evening three buses were required with the split being West Bridgford two to NCT’s one. During Monday to Friday evenings services 11/12/14/24 inter worked with a 30 minute headway on each service worked by five buses. The split was NCT three buses and West Bridgford two buses. The morning and afternoon peak service on services 11/12/14/24 required a total of 18 buses, with the inter peak service requiring eight buses. Additional buses would have been needed for the mid day peak. The total WBUDC Monday to Friday peak vehicle requirement was 23 vehicles during the morning peak and 24 during the afternoon peak. The morning total was made up of five buses on Cliftons, two on the West Bridgford schools service which leaves 16 for the joint services. Given that two buses were on the 15/15a and five on the 21, the remaining nine were on services 11/12/14/24. The afternoon peak required 24 buses because of the additional bus on Cliftons with the other totals unchanged. An additional bus was required for the GEM ‘free bus’ during the afternoon peak when this was in operation (Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, I think). David C – as far as I am aware there were ten ‘two pedal’ Renowns (model 3B2RA). These were the demonstrator 8071 ML, the two ‘King Alfred’s’ 595/596 LCG, the two West Bridgfords
Michael Elliott
16/11/13 – 11:00
A big thank you to Michael Elliott and Stephen Ford for the above information. Although I have lived in West Bridgford all my life and taken a keen interest in WB buses I have not paid much attention to the actual services. This interest was sparked off by the acquisition of a mint condition 1956 WBUDC timetable book at the Sandtoft gathering this July. This reminded me of another long forgotten artefact which I have hidden away. One day when walking home from Rushcliffe School in the late 1970’s I was passing the old green metal bus shelter on Melton Road which used to stand near the end of Devonshire Road. I noticed the corner of something sticking out from behind the NCT timetable case, I pulled it out to reveal a sheet of varnished plywood with the old WBUDC timetable pasted to it, needless to say it was spirited away. Next year is the centenary of motor buses in West Bridgford, and I gather that NCT intend to paint a bus in the old maroon and deep cream to commemorate this, I think it looks likely to be Scania Omnidekka 955 as this has not been repainted in Bridgford Bus green livery like its sisters 952-954. There are already posters displayed inside these buses with a basic timeline of the history.
David Beardsell
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
22/11/13 – 08:08
David C – as far as I am aware there were ten “two pedal” Renowns (model 3B2RA). These were the demonstrator 8071 ML, the two “King Alfred’s” 595/596 LCG, the two West Bridgford’s BRR 241/242C and five Wolverhampton’s HJW 182-186D. Some general sources on AEC Renowns quote the Wolverhampton’s as model 3B3RA but other sources dealing with Wolverhampton quote them as 3B2RA, which fits in with Wolverhampton’s preference for ‘two pedal’ control Guy Arabs.
Leigh Corporation 1965 AEC Renown East Lancs H41/31F
I think but I’m not over sure, but was the Renown to take over from the Bridgemaster does anybody know. This wasn’t the first time the Renown name had been used by AEC in the late 20s early 30s there was a six-wheeled chassis called the Renown. It would appear that the chassis was used for both double or single deck vehicles.
Picture here of a double decker (scroll down to first b/w picture). Picture here of a single decker.
The Renown was a replacement for the Bridgemaster. The big problem with the former was that it was of integral construction, which at that time was unacceptable to just about every operator of any significance. In fact by the time the Renown emerged everybody was moving to Atlanteans and Fleetlines, so that was a flop as well!
Yet two more AEC dead-ends, to rank with the ‘Q’ the Regent IV and the Monocoach!
David A Jones
I remember that when AEC announced its intention to build the Renown, the shrinking market for front-engined buses was recognised, and it was intended that the new model should replace the full-height Regent V as well as the low-height Bridgemaster. Quite why that didn’t happen I don’t know for certain, but in view of the Renown’s reputation for being over-engineered, I would imagine that production costs made it impossible to sell it at a price competitive with other full-height models.
However, full-height Renowns were built in small numbers for Leicester, Nottingham and Wolverhampton corporations, the low floor being used to give greater headroom for passengers.
Peter Williamson
I’ve ridden a time or two on this preserved Leigh Renown vehicle and it is in very fine order indeed. I may be wrong, but I think I heard that it was involved in an unfortunate “shunt” recently on one of the Manchester Museum open days. Quite apart from any mechanical or other difficulties I think that the lack of sales for the model can largely be summed up in three words – “One Person Operation” – it probably arrived on the market several years too late.
Chris Youhill
14/07/12 – 10:48
I have just found a brilliant facsimile of a Leigh Corporation Guy Arab model bus on EFE Models of Loughborough models, website based here in Derby. From what I remember of the pre selnec days, I don’t think that the manufacturer has captured the original dark blue. Never the less its good to see that a model has at last seen the light of day.
Duncan N Smith
16/09/12 – 06:59
Looks like the model livery is correct. Leigh buses were light blue until a livery change in 1948. More details if you want them in the book ‘The Leyland Buses of Leigh Corporation’ Published by the Leyland Society and authored by Ron Phillips.
Frank Taylor
12/03/14 – 07:36
Oh how I remember with delight, the diversity of the Leigh Corporation fleet. I moved from London to the village of Glazebury, just outside of Leigh in the mid 1960,s and travelled daily into Leigh to work. My favourite bus was the A.E.C. Renown with it’s powerful sounding engine. My favourite journey, on the Renown, was the no.26 from Leigh to Manchester, especially if I managed to acquire an upstairs seat at the front. Another memory from those days is the TIM ticket machine, of which, I have several in my collection, including a 1930’s Leigh Corporation machine. Now resident near Plymouth, I am a member of Plymouth City Transport Preservation Group.
In my comments on the Royal Tiger coach GWM 981, which John Stringer posted, I noted that there were no views of the vehicles of Reading Corporation in the column on the left. The Gallery section does have some views from Roger Cox, however. Even into the RE era and with bodies of different manufacture, Reading continued the use of that “seagull” motif on the front. Here is a view of CRD 152C, the first of my submissions relating to this operator. CRD 152C is an AEC Reliance of the 2MU3RA format with Neepsend B34D bodywork (and the seagull). She was photographed in Winchester on 1 January 1992 during a visit to the annual King Alfred Running Day.
Well it could have been a genuine Burlingham saloon – had it not been five years after Burlingham were subsumed in Duple.
David Oldfield
05/04/13 – 05:39
Thank you, David. Wait until you see the RE adorned in the same way! I’ll be submitting a couple of view to Peter in the near future.
Pete Davies
05/04/13 – 05:39
One of the things that fascinates me about our hobby is how operators, even relatively small ones, could obtain special designs from fairly large scale builders of bus bodywork. This basically Burlingham design was unlike anything else East Lancs/Neepsend produced in their normal range but they did so for Reading. I wonder what the price penalty was for such ‘specials’ and how transport managers justified it to their committees.
Philip Halstead
05/04/13 – 08:05
One thing East Lancs were known for was supplying operators with what they wanted – ie they built to “any design” required if it was in their power to do so.
Huddersfield Corporation 1961 AEC Regent V East Lancs H39/31F
The AEC code for this bus was 2D2RA this code started in 1960 and was really the start of the Regent V series 2. This bus is a straight forward Regent V being 30ft long 8ft wide has a AEC AV590 six cylinder 9.6 litre engine with Monocontrol four speed direct selection gearbox. This actual bus was sold to Kowloon Motor Bus, Hong Kong in 1973 I have searched the internet but can not come up with a shot of it in Hong Kong If you know of one please leave a comment with a link and I will update.
Here are a couple of links to photos of 194 in Hong Kong, the first whilst in operation and the second sadly at the end of its days.
In municipal days Huddersfield was technically two fleets these were the corporation fleet which served the town and the Joint Committee fleet which went to places like Dewsbury and Halifax. Prior to 1961 the corporation fleet was all trolley buses the first modern motor buses being a batch of Roe bodied PD3s. The Regent above is a JOC bus and carries a restrained red livery. The corporation fleet carried a nineteen thirties streamline livery that lasted until the late sixties early seventies. Eventually the JOC was disbanded and all Huddersfields buses wore the same livery
A. Mayne & Sons 1965 Regent V 2D3RA Neepsend H41/32R
Another independent bus operator but this time from the other side of the Pennines, A. Mayne & Sons operated in the Manchester area. I must admit I know very little about A. Mayne & Sons but I have two photographs of AEC Regent Vs that are worth posting, so if anybody as any information about them please leave a comment and I will add it as an update.
This Regent had a body built by Neepsend formally Cravens of Sheffield South Yorkshire and the livery at the time if I remember correctly was a dark red body with three pale green bands, although I do stand to be corrected if you know better.
Maroon with turquoise bands would be more accurate. In later years they adopted a red and cream livery which was much more modern-looking, but far less distinctive! Maynes sold their bus operation to Stagecoach four or five years ago, but the name is kept alive by the coaching operation based on Warrington, which is actually the former Barry Cooper business. There is a nice story that back in the 1930’s Manchester Corporation offered to buy out the Maynes business. The reply was that this was an amazing coincidence, as Maynes were thinking of making a similar offer to MCTD!
David Jones
Another piece of interaction between Maynes and the Corporation may be worth recording. In the mid-1960s Maynes had a half-share in Manchester’s service 46 to Droylsden, as shown above, and also their own unnumbered service along the main road to Audenshaw, which ran in competition with Manchester’s trolleybuses. Since the trolleys operated under light rail legislation and were outside the Road Service Licensing system, this made Maynes the sole licensed operator of local (as opposed to limited stop) buses on the stretch of main road beyond the Droylsden turnoff. When the Corporation wanted to run motor buses on the trolley routes, they had to apply for a licence, to which Maynes objected on the grounds that it was their patch! This promised a real David and Goliath battle in the traffic court, but sense prevailed and a deal was struck instead. Maynes got the other half of the 46 (which they had always wanted) and both their objection and their Audenshaw service were withdrawn.
Peter Williamson
I’m not familiar with the “half share” referred to by Peter – but as far as I recall only Maynes operated the 46 from Stevenson Square to Droylsden [Sunnyside Road]. During the early Selnec years Maynes continued to operate the route which was renumbered 213. The story I was told was that Maynes started the 46 route when Droylsden was still being built and the roads unfinished. When the roads were completed Manchester then wanted to operate the route as well. Maynes are said to have objected and won their case with the only restriction being passenger pickup only between City centre and Ancoats – outbound and passenger drop off only from Ancoats to City Centre – inbound.
It is also interesting to note that up till the recent acquisition of Maynes local bus services by Stagecoach – Maynes original route 46 [subsequently 213] was their only local service which I think remained as such until the deregulation era. They then increased the number of routes between Manchester and the Ashton area. Of note is that ALL their routes went via DROYSLDEN, maintaining their original commitment to service this area.
Roy Oldham [Expat in London Ontario Canada]
According to “The Manchester Bus” by Eyre and Heaps, the 46 was jointly operated by Manchester and Maynes from its inauguration in 1958. However, “half-share” wasn’t quite right, as I have found a table of joint services in 1962 which shows that the all-day service required 3 buses, of which 2 were Manchester’s and 1 Maynes. Maynes original route – started in 1926 – was from Newton Street to Kershaw Lane, Audenshaw, although inbound buses always showed “Dale Street” as that was where the alighting point was.
Peter Williamson
I cannot comment on what the “Official” arrangements were between Maynes and Manchester – all I know is that I travelled between Stevenson Sq and Pollard Street quite frequently in the late 50s to late 60s and if not using the 215/216 trolley bus would take the 46. Invariably the return trip would be on the 46 as the trolley buses didn’t return via Pollard Street. If Manchester was in fact operating two out of three vehicles the odds are that I would get one, whereas in reality it was always a Maynes bus that came.
Roy Oldham
What became of the 46 service started in 1933 as a shuttle service from Edge Lane to Manor Road which connected with the existing Audenshaw service. As that area of Droylsden developed the service was extended gradually until it reached Sunnyside Road. The inconvenience of changing buses at Edge Lane became an issue and in 1958 the service was extended into the City and was numbered 46 by Manchester Corporation who became a joint operator in the ratios previously described. Peak hour extras were additional and provided by MCT in summer and Mayne’s in the winter. As Peter has already said above, the 46 became worked exclusively by Mayne’s following the abandonment of the Manchester trolleybus system.
David Beilby
Recently Buses Mag published an interview with Julian Peddle who at one time was Traffic Manager at Maynes, seemingly the financial arrangement with MCTD was that they paid Mayne’s a mileage rate who then paid MCT all their takings, an arrangement very beneficial to Mayne’s !
Andrew Critchlow
14/09/11 – 07:58
I was born and bred in Droylsden near the cemetery. I used the 2 Maynes services for many years until I went to London in 1959. When the Edge Lane to Sunnyside Road changed to no 46 Limited stop from Stevenson Sq I came home from work on it. I used the 215 216 to go to the City as the Maynes was usually full by the time it got to our bus stop. Sometimes I used it to go home until no 46 started as the walk from the stop on Manor Rd was shorter. When at school I used the 216 to Ashton and the Hurst or Smallshaw Circular or walked to school from Ashton market. My uncle Bill was a driver for Maynes and if I was on his no 46 going home he used to stop earlier than the bus stop so my walk was shorter. My Dad and Arthur Mayne were friends.
Alan Bevins
07/11/11 – 12:21
I use to use the Maynes bus in 1965 to get to work. I use to meet my father and we would go together on the bus from Sunnyside Road terminal to Stevenson Square and visa versa. Brilliant service and always full of people travelling in the early mornings and again at night.
Marie Mckenna
10/11/11 – 07:42
I now have a copy of the Maynes book by Venture Publications, and it gives a slightly different version from the Manchester book of the joint working arrangements on the 46, namely two Maynes buses and one Corporation rather than the other way round. Plus the peak hour extras referred to by David B.
Peter Williamson
12/03/13 – 14:05
In addition to the services listed above, Maynes also had a road service licence for the Droylsden to Audenshaw Grammar school bus which was operated as what would be known now as a commercial service. I travelled to school on one of the Regent V’s every day on this service in the 1960’s. Later I found myself driving Fleetlines and VR’s for Maynes for a short while – very nostalgic with Ultimate ticket machines.
Bill Lear
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
12/05/13 – 06:53
In 1964 I co-organised a student- teacher PD1 Leyland decker trip to Moscow from Manchester and as I wanted to keep my PSV licence going, I drove part-time for Maynes Buses from 1965 until I left Manchester in 1978. At the time I was teaching first at Manor Road Primary and then at Bishop Greer Secondary in Gorton. I lived on Greenside Lane near the Clockhouse terminus. My inauguration was on GUF 678 – a Leyland PD1 slow gear change, so I had no problems in satisfying the requirements. (the drivers used to say “You can light a fag in between gear changes”) Mr Palmer was the manager under Arthur Mayne Jnr. and Alex was the mechanic. I drove on the last Kershaw Lane route (Dec 31st 1965) when they changed the route from trolley buses and swopped it for the 46 Droylsden Route. My first trip from Droylsden, Market Street to Mayne Road was a different story. I was given an AEC Regent II FT 571 with a quick crash box change and I could not find any of the gears. I got the timing wrong and could not stop with the vacuum brakes at Edge Lane Traffic lights. With the help of the passengers they directed me to Mayne Road. Phew! I thought my days of driving for Maynes were over, but they were just beginning. Last journey was on a Bristol VR to Rochdale VJA 666S. First new bus was on a Sunday morning in July 1965 Regent V CXJ 520C. It had air brakes and stopping was very fierce. I remember one man hitting the bulkhead as I braked for Market Street on route to Kershaw Lane, Audenshaw. Oh Dear !! I could share many comments as I drove all the fleet of deckers. My favourite was Ex Oxford synchro 27ft 7194 H. The pre selectors were also good ECY 874.
John Brown
04/12/18 – 07:17
Just a very small correction to John Brown (above), 7194 H had, prior to Maynes, been an AEC demonstrator, but I believe it did carry City Of Oxford Motor Services livery at the time.
Southampton Corporation 1963 AEC Regent V 2D3RA East Lancs H37/29R
369 FCR is a Regent V of the 2D3RA variety, with East Lancs H66R bodywork from 1963, in the fleet of Southampton City Transport, fleet number 349. She’s seen in Vincent’s Walk on a sunny lunchtime in January 1976, between duties on the 15 to Swaythling via Bassett Green. The blinds have been set on the way into City Centre, but the bus needs to turn round.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
26/06/15 – 05:19
To my mind one of best looking of the MkV. but my own favourite is Nottingham City Transport MK V. followed by NCT Renowns. They were nice to drive and nowhere in Nottm. could they not go.
J. A. Bagshaw
29/03/20 – 08:42
This vehicle arrived in advance (October) of the rest of the batch for familiarization and publicity purposes. I remember that many of the drivers considered them somewhat sluggish on the road compared to the Park Royal bodied lighter predecessors (313-322).
Southampton Corporation 1963 AEC Regent V 2D3RA East Lancs H37/29R
373 FCR is a Regent V, 2D3RA, from the Southampton City Transport fleet. Unlike some, which had Neepsend bodywork, she is listed as having East Lancs bodywork, of the H66R configuration. She was new in 1963. She’s seen in Winchester, during a King Alfred Running Day on 1 January 2009, on the roundabout at the eastern end of The Broadway…
…and, yes, she is heeling over somewhat!
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
26/05/14 – 09:40
Even allowing for some over enthusiastic cornering, it looks as if some of the leaves in the rear spring have failed, a matter that should receive urgent attention.
Roger Cox
26/05/14 – 11:28
This really is an action photo! The upstairs passengers might well have wondered if she’d ever recover!
Chris Hebbron
06/01/17 – 11:11
I purchased 373 FCR in 2012 and indeed a new set of springs was needed! Progressive restoration work got her back to Class 6 test standard in 2015 and she ran in revenue earning service for Stagecoach at Goodwood Races that year
Andrew Dyer
06/01/17 – 14:21
On seeing the dramatic picture I had a feeling that springs or tyres must be to blame – the Regent V, especially in 8’0″ form, was a very stable vehicle indeed normally. Strangely, we had a batch of fifteen “eight footer” lightweights at Leeds City Transport. The last one in service, well after the others had gone, looked almost as alarming when stationary at stops – I openly admit to have been petrified of 909 1909 NW and was very glad to see the back of it.
Chris Youhill
06/01/17 – 14:22
Andrew, I saw the entry attributed to “Andrew Dyer” and wondered if you were the one about whom I had heard via Simon Bell, then I read your comment. Welcome aboard, young sir. Hold very tight, please!
A Mayne & Son 1964 AEC Regent V 2D3RA Neepsend H41/32R
8859 VR was an AEC Regent V 2D3RA with a Neepsend H73R bodywork originally with A Mayne & Son of Manchester. She was built in 1963 and delivered in January 1964 and is seen at the Wisley rally on 5 April 2009. Rumour has it this bus was exported to Japan for use as a sight seeing bus, not sure if that is true.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
18/08/14 – 06:55
“Rumour has it . . . .” Well, I didn’t know of that one. Our editor must have added that to my caption! Updates, anyone?
Happily sister vehicle 8860 VR is in the care of Manchester Transport Museum.
Chris Hough
21/08/14 – 07:02
This shot came in without name or comment. I presume it was taken when 8859 VR was in service with Maynes, it is on route 213x to Droylsden Sunnyside Road and the pub behind is/was ‘The Royal George’ which was a Vaux pub at the time, can any of you Manchester chaps confirm if I presume correctly.
Peter
21/08/14 – 08:14
The photo of 8859 VR is on Lever Street in Manchester where the direction of flow of the one-way system had been reversed. Hence the terminus had to move from its original location in Stevenson Square which is just behind the bus.
David Beilby
21/08/14 – 12:42
The picture has come from the SCT61 site, it was taken in October 1995 by which time this bus was in preservation, it was running in connection with some sort of GMTS museum/Maynes joint event. Vaux did not acquire its Manchester pubs until long after Maynes had withdrawn their Regents!
Michael Keeley
21/08/14 – 15:26
oops 8859 VR the shot without a comment, it was me !! sorry the comment seems to have floated away somewhere. Sadly this fine vehicle was indeed exported to Japan early 2013 approx. She was retained by Maynes and stored for many years at the Ashton road garage (now an Aldi supermarket) also at the Stuart street coach depot nearby, I visited the yard many times and stated it would be wonderful to see the bus on the road and actually was prepared to purchase the bus, Stephen Mayne told me the bus was his baby!! and would not be sold on. The bus spent some time at Maynes Warrington depot in the open and then on loan to the North West museum of transport at St Helens. She was looked after by a dedicated group of drivers and was cleaned and polished up and overhauled to take part in the 75th anniversary of Maynes running day she performed well only failing once. The photo I have submitted was taken on Lever street Manchester October 1995 whilst in service on the running day, I then jumped back on board ah that symphonic AEC gearbox and engine !! Sadly she went back into store as mentioned above and following the sad passing away of Stephen Mayne it seems the remaining directors had no interest in retaining a piece of company history such as the respected Dalaine family at Bourne, and the Goodwin family in Manchester. The bus was sold from St Helens to an enthusiast near Basingstoke I believe, finally ending up with bus dealer Mike Nash and exported to Kobe in Japan, she was used advertising a children’s charity initially, the plan was to use the bus as a London tour bus on Rokko island, she is most likely painted red by now!! But I have no further information to date, a sad loss if I had been aware she was for sale she may well still be here. As mentioned sister bus 8860 VR is there for all to see owned by lifelong Maynes enthusiast and expert Brian Lomas well done Brian for saving here, check out his amazing views of both vehicles on his Flickr page 8860 Brian. I have had an interest all things Mayne for many years (its an illness we all have this bus lark …but thanks to this amazing old bus photo site we can all chat and submit our photos, and information to benefit and enlighten us all many thanks) however I am desperate to view any photographs of F & H Dean of old church street Newton Heath bought out by Maynes circa 1960, but continued the Dean fleet until 1967 help please anyone!!
Mark Mc Alister
17/01/15 – 06:08
Maynes 8860 VR is in Manchester Transport Museum for all to see. //www.gmts.co.uk/
Southampton Corporation 1965 AEC Regent V 2D3RA Neepsend H37/29R
This AEC Regent V with East Lancs (Neepsend) H66R bodywork was new in 1965 to Southampton City Transport with fleet number 371. Some of this delivery (358 to 370) were to have been 358 HCR to 370 HCR, but were caught in the change to year suffix numbers. Indeed, some of them even failed to have their booked BTR …B marks, and gained BOW …C plates instead. BOW 507C isn’t one of those so marked in the fleet history by A K MacFarlane-Watt. In this view, on the soggy afternoon of 1st February, 1979, she has been repainted in the 1930’s livery and renumbered 100 for the operator’s Centenary, and is being positioned outside Civic Centre for the Committee inspection. My then boss, the City Architect, said he had commented to the Transport Manager that it looked very nice, but asked “Why the P&O advert?”. He said that Bill Lewis replied, “They paid for the repaint.”
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
13/10/15 – 06:43
At the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preference. I’m not a lover of tin fronts, most tend to look a bit harsh, and some are positively brutal in appearance, but the AEC seems to buck that trend. A few round edges and a bit of bright trim makes all the difference. Mind you, when a bit of neglect sets in where badges go astray, or trim is painted over, or bits are removed and not replaced, well that’s another matter entirely.
Ronnie Hoye
13/10/15 – 08:58
Thank you, Ronnie. I suppose that – having grown up with the Regents of Morecambe & Heysham corporation – the arrival of the Regent V was something of a shock. I wonder if this is why some places didn’t go for this ‘new look’ and stayed with the exposed radiator on their Regent V fleets.
Pete Davies
14/10/15 – 16:10
I always think that there was something Macho about the preference for exposed radiators- a touch Mack or Peterbilt, or deferring to the traditional Atkinson. Doncaster only ever had fibre-front CVG’s- Leyland and AEC deckers were exposed radiator until the half cab was bustled away.
Joe
15/10/15 – 07:21
Thanks, Joe. A “real” Scammell, perhaps, or the Thornycroft Mighty Antar, with the snout, rather than those designer products from their latter years . . .
