Tag: ECW

Hants & Dorset – Bristol Lodekka – GRU 978D – 1547


Copyright Pete Davies

Hants & Dorset Motor Services 
1966
Bristol Lodekka FLF6B
ECW H38/32F

In case readers were thinking the bulk of my photographs are of operators in the Midlands and North of England, here is something to balance matters. GRU978D was a Bristol FLF6B in the Hants & Dorset fleet. She is seen on the sunny morning of 29 May 1970, and is at Hamble Square, ready to return to Woolston on the 81.
I believe she went to the USA when withdrawn.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

14/08/12 – 06:51

As a young enthusiast on the south coast, Hants and Dorset was my nearest Tilling operator, often seen at Fareham, and Southampton. In those days, I sometimes felt that Tilling companies (BTC, then THC) were all “much the same”. That was before the impact of NBC – then we really knew what “all the same” meant! Here in the south, I reflect that it was possible to distinguish between the green Tilling companies (Hants and Dorset, Southern/Western National, Bristol Omnibus) or red ones (Wilts and Dorset, Thames Valley) by little idiosyncrasies as fleet number application (plates or transfers), the obvious registration letters used, and even destination indicator styles. Although the screen layout was an evolving national policy, somehow the style of the text differed between these operators – or was it just my imagination!? Several of these fleets also contained a number of vehicles unique to themselves. At Hants and Dorset, there were all-Leyland PD2s (highbridge), some NCME-bodied Regents (diverted from Western SMT), and H&D’s own open-top rebuilds with full-fronts. I think these bodies started on some pre-war Bristol Ks, and were transferred successively over a few years to some war-time Ks, and finally to some post-war Ks. These bodies, I believe, were rebuilt by H&D’s works from the original Brush bodies supplied pre-war (as ordinary half-cab double-deckers). So the FLF in the picture would have been “standard viewing” at the time, but brings great pleasure now. Incidentally, the name Hants and Dorset has disappeared, but the company became owned by Wilts and Dorset after privatisation (a reversal of the NBC era, when H&D controlled W&D!). But under modern W&D control, the H&D subsidiary is now called “Damory Coaches”. While in Weymouth last week, I photographed two Olympians – but they weren’t sailing – just waiting near the King’s Statue on the seafront for their return journey on their Olympic charter. Much too modern for this site, but they did look proud in the sunshine.

Michael Hampton

14/08/12 – 11:37

Have no history whatsoever with Hants & Dorset, but always preferred the Bristol engine. H & D had some of the rare (late) Leyland engined FLFs. I only learned recently that this option was put on the list after the Bristol engine was removed from it.
Looking at this picture though, it shows the perfect proportions of the FLF body. Balance and symmetry are always the basis of a good design.

David Oldfield

14/08/12 – 11:39

Rob Sly has an excellent website listing preserved Bristol Lodekka buses, VR, LH and RE. This bus did go to USA and was red in 2011 which is the last update – full details at //bcv.robsly.com/

Ken Jones

15/08/12 – 07:55

As far as I’m aware, one of the main reasons Northern bought Routemasters was United’s introduction of this type of Loddeka onto the routes they operated jointly. Northerns RD Park Royal PD2’s were getting a bit long in the tooth, and although the PDR1 Atlantean had been in service with Northern for a couple of years it was decided to go for the Routemaster instead. Being a BET company, Northern never had any of these, but that all changed with the formation of NBC, when for reasons best known to the powers that be, long established fleets were shuffled around like decks of cards. I cant remember the exact number, but at Percy Main we had some Daimler Fleetlines transferred to United in exchange for Loddeka’s, but they only stayed a matter of a few weeks and were replaced by the AEC Renowns that came from East Yorkshire, the Bristol’s going on to other depots. I remember one or two drivers being caught out by the gearbox, where it wasn’t possible to go into neutral from fifth without going through forth. Digressing back to fleet reshuffles, some depots got buses from as far afield East Kent and Maidstone and District, make sense of that if you can.

Ronnie Hoye

15/08/12 – 07:56

On the fringes (in two respects) to what Michael H said about name changes, I notice that neighbour Wilts & Dorset are re-naming their Bournemouth and Poole operation ‘MORE’! Bizarre!

Chris Hebbron

15/08/12 – 07:57

Can’t help but agree with you David, on the ‘just right’ proportions of the FLF. Handsome machines from any angle. Hants & Dorset did indeed have some FLFs with Leyland (0.600) engines, as did Wilts & Dorset. Interestingly, both fleets also specified semi-auto gearboxes to mate up with them. I could never understand however, why H&D had to change it’s livery from green to red under NBC ownership. Surely it can’t have been to differentiate between the H&D and Provincial (green) fleets. A similar fate befell West Riding Auto up here in the ‘Olympic Medal County’ of Yorkshire, where WR’s green fleet went red under NBC. Strangely, this meant that its fleet livery was then the same as associate company Yorkshire Woollen District, which retained its red. Maybe someone could explain?!

Brendan Smith

15/08/12 – 11:30

Chris H, there are rumblings that the name SALISBURY REDS is being extended from just the company’s activities in that City to Romsey and other routes as well, while MORE is being extended from Bournemouth and Poole to include Lymington. It’s being said that the W&D name will vanish (again) from bus sides, though I understand that it will remain as the legal lettering.

Brendan, going on from that, the history of Wilts & Dorset to 1972 includes a reference to the green to red transition of Hants & Dorset. It has nothing to do with trying to distinguish from Provincial. When the joint management of H&D/W&D were told that the W&D name was to be dropped, they were so disgusted by the dropping of such a highly respected name they decided “We’re going red”.

Pete Davies

15/08/12 – 11:31

No logic in the halls of NBC Brendan. Maroon East Midland became leaf green.

David Oldfield

15/08/12 – 14:55

Wasn’t NBC policy a poor attempt at LT/Greenline… Country services to be green, urban services red? If I recall, a lot of the “used” Wulfrunian replacements at WR had arrived in green… and I think stayed that way…?? Anyway, privatised WR went back to green, if not the same one…. Of course, WR had once been part red anyway!

Joe

19/08/12 – 07:52

This must be the smartest design of all ECW double decker Bristols

Jim Hepburn

19/08/12 – 07:54

David, I seem to remember that East Midland (maroon) absorbed Mansfield District (green), is that when East Midland went green?

Vernon Ford

19/08/12 – 08:30

That’s very true, Vernon – but it’s no excuse! [I read recently a theory that NBC went green for rural and red for urban – but that doesn’t explain Hants & Dorset going from green to red!] …..and of course the blues (East Yorkshire and Midland General) had to go red.
None of this would have been half so bad if Tilling Red, Green and Cream had been retained. Visually – and on quality – they were better than Leaf Green and Poppy Red which faded within the year.

David Oldfield

19/08/12 – 12:00

I seem to recall reading somewhere that certain bus companies which had their origins in tramways, and which had not set up a separate company later to operate buses, were therefore statutory companies (i.e. set up by Acts of Parliament). The Acts specified in very minute detail the activities of the operator and in some cases this could even specify the livery that would be used (though obviously not in the majority of cases as many tramway operators changed their liveries). I believe Mansfield District was such a case, and the green livery on the bus fleet could only be changed by another Act of Parliament, which would have been too much hassle, so when East Midland took them over it was easier to adopt a green livery for the entire fleet. Has anyone else heard of this?

John Stringer

19/08/12 – 15:05

This may be right- I think, John S, that tramways regulations were why West Riding ran a red fleet on the old tram routes, and there might be some obscure connection with the centre entrances?

Joe

20/08/12 – 07:59

John, regarding your comments on statutory companies and Acts Of Parliament, I seem to recall reading something similar about Provincial surviving as a fleet in its own right for a similar reason, after acquisition by NBC. Even though Provincial came under Hants & Dorset administrative control, the fleetname and green livery were retained, whereas Wilts & Dorset, a larger NBC subsidiary, was swept away altogether under NBC ‘rationalisation’. If the above is correct, was another Act of Parliament actually passed when NBC was privatised? If it wasn’t, on a mischievous note, wouldn’t it be nice to inform First Group that Provincial’s fleetname and livery must be reinstated….?

Brendan Smith

20/08/12 – 08:00

Joe, am I right in thinking that West Riding trams were red and buses green? (why the difference? – a subsidiary company operated the buses to start with?? [time to consult bookshelf!]) and this difference perpetuated on the Wakefield-Leeds tram-replacement buses because those services operated “jointly” with the Rothwell-Leeds services of LCT. Red WR buses could carry local passengers, green buses could not. I think the distinction was ended after LCT bought out Wallace Arnold’s Kippax & District (also Farsley Omnibus Co) operations: a coordination agreement (see V4 of John Soper’s/LTHS’s excellent history of LCT et al) was subsequently entered into in respect of the Leeds-Garforth corridor, which allowed (green) WR buses to carry local passengers – so the retention of red buses on the “track” was pointless, although as there were still WR services that couldn’t pick up in Leeds I suppose WR could have painted Leeds-Garforth buses in red as well. Whatever, with all these (in many cases poorly advertised) restricted carrying arrangements – which varied from town to town – in force is it any wonder that passengers deserted the bus?

I’m going to stick my neck out here and say that this red “urban”/green “rural” NBC livery theory is a load of tosh – Alder Valley (a new company) went red – and it’s territory can hardly be described as urban – as did East Yorkshire (ditto, country-wise) when it changed colour. Cumberland, Ribble, West Yorkshire, Eastern Counties, East Kent (and the previously-mentioned Hants & Dorset) – all with large rural areas stayed/went red. I remember reading, many years ago when the privatisation BA livery was introduced, that even office furniture down to desk tidies was changed: the logic being that corporate means the same throughout, down to the last item. I’ve read that NBC (and their design consultants!) wanted to go “poppy red all over” but that that the managers of green fleets put forward a strong-enough case for that colour to be retained. The blue fleets weren’t so lucky, in the long run: no standard blue was decided on and the choice of colour was left down to the Regional Chairman: Stratford Blue had gone by this time; Midland General was told to go red, after a period in which it painted it’s buses in NBC-style “Balfour Beatty” blue; EYMS and Sunderland District were allowed to stay (their own) blue by the Regional Chairman ([sic] I think, as NBC seemed to have a habit of changing Regional boundaries around this time), but Sunderland District was then absorbed by Northern – and that just left EYMS with a non-standard indigo livery, which then succumbed . . . except for plucky little Jones. Now I’ve heard that when the directors of Jones sold out to NBC they insisted that the the Jones identity AND blue be preserved for ten years – would that fit in with when the Jones identity disappeared under MAP? Wholly-urban Provincial and (OK, this is pushing it) Bristol Joint Services and “Bath Services” stayed green, and indeed, Cheltenham District went green. Red “urban”. green “rural”? – seems like a London-centric fixation.

Philip Rushworth

20/08/12 – 09:06

Nah, Philip. My body’s down south but my heart’s still in the north.

David Oldfield

20/08/12 – 11:40

Nay Philip, I haven’t a clue. West Riding buses were green except the red ones on the old tram routes- Leeds and, I think, Ossett. These had centre entrances and, I think, double staircases (like trams?!) An early example of route branding, but can anyone confirm the fundamental reason? Was it passenger co-ordination, or tramway legislation? After all, Yorks Woollen latterly ran into Leeds in red….
I still think that deep in the NBC head office was the belief that buses were born either green or red, and green ones ran in leafy suburbs. The fact that this didn’t work across the country was only realised later….

Joe

20/08/12 – 13:56

Just a small point arising from Philip Rushworth’s comment on Alder Valley. When Aldershot and District was, in effect, taken over by Thames Valley – one of the best BET companies being swallowed up by one of the worst BTC ones – to form Alder Valley in January 1972, the livery initially adopted was maroon, on the rather tenuous pretext that this was the colour formed by mixing TV red and A&D green. London Country Bus Services next door already used a green livery, so that, when the dead hand of Freddy Wood’s standardisation came to be applied, the maroon became red.

Roger Cox

20/08/12 – 13:58

Brendan, When the Barbie livery was introduced, along with the dropping of the local fleetnames, I wrote to the local branch of First to suggest the very same thing in respect of Provincial. The then MD wrote back to say they had considered this, but weren’t worried. From that, I guess the disposal of certain fleetnames may have been written into the 1985 Act, but I must admit I’ve never read it.

Pete Davies

21/08/12 – 07:34

As well as Bristol staying green so did Crosville who were a very urban operator in the north of their territory.

Chris Hough

21/08/12 – 08:32

Yes Chris, but outside Bristol and Liverpool/Wirral they were both very rural.

David Oldfield

21/08/12 – 20:29

We can surely add Eastern National and United Counties to the list of the NBC “Greens” with much urban mileage.

Roger Cox

24/08/12 – 08:26

Joe
The fundamental reason, was I think, that red buses on “the track” (Leeds-Wakefield) were joint/coordinated with LCT buses on Leeds-Rothwell (both having been jointly-worked/coordinated tram services) and could pick-up within the LCT area. The significance of this distinction ended when green WR buses on the Leeds-Garforth corridor were also allowed to pick-up within the LCT boundary following a co-ordination agreement with LCT on that corridor.

Philip Rushworth

04/02/13 – 06:59

Further to the query regarding the survival of Gosport & Fareham under NBC, I well remember Peter Hunt, then General Manager at H&D/G&F telling me that, as G&F was a Statutory Company, an Act of Parliament would be necessary to extinguish it. At that time (around 1977) the estimated legal costs of such an Act was £30,000, which was not considered justified. In any case, Peter Hunt said in a public meeting at which I was present “I think small is beautiful” he thought the efficiency benefits of small-unit cohesion far outweighed any possible advantage from scrapping it. Would that the current crop of industry managers had his wisdom!

David Jones

04/02/13 – 09:58

It’s statutory status probably stemmed from its creation as a tram company. I would have thought, though, that the name could merely have been discontinued and/or the company made moribund. It looks as if the small is beautiful, and a certain affection for this quirky organisation by Peter Hunt and well-loved by locals and enthusiasts alike, won the day! And hooray for that! Shame it never happened to equally loved and respected Samuel Ledgard.

Chris Hebbron

25/06/13 – 07:40

Here’s one for Lodekka enthusiasts… I once boarded a Hants & Dorset FS which featured something I’ve never ever seen on any other Lodekka – it had an opening top vent in the nearside rear lower bulkhead window. I know this to be true, but can anyone shed any light on this particular vehicle?

Colin Plucknett

25/06/13 – 11:45

Coincidence can be a funny thing. I’m travelling at present but have a number of models with me to show to/sell to a friend. One is a Corgi Lodekka FS being Hants and Dorset 1512, CEL 860C. This is modelled with a top opening light in the nearside front bulkhead window so I presume that all that batch, at least, had them.

Phil Blinkhorn

25/06/13 – 11:47

Colin both West Yorkshire and Crosville also had an opening window on the front lowerdeck window on their FS Lodekkas.

Chris Hough

28/06/13 – 07:22

Thanks very much Phil and Chris for your interesting replies – however, the window I am thinking of is one of the pair in the rear downstairs. I have since turned up one half-shot from a book and you can just see what I mean. It really is a rare thing – and at least it proves I’m not going mad!!! Any further ideas chaps?

Colin Plucknett

13/12/13 – 16:55

In case anyone is curious, the last H&D FLF 1577, LLJ  443F, is preserved and appears annually at the King Alfred Running day in Winchester, on 1st January. Free rides all day on part of the 47 road, all welcome.

Alex Geisler

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

13/02/14 – 17:01

When Hants and Dorset was split up into smaller units Wilts and Dorset was one of the resulting companies.
To rename buses from Hants and Dorset to Wilts and Dorset the simple expedient of printing some stickers that read “WIL” and placing them over the “HAN” of Hants and Dorset was used.

David R

Southern Vectis – Bristol Lodekka – KDL 414 – 518


Copyright Pete Davies

Southern Vectis Omnibus Company
1954
Bristol Lodekka LD6G
ECW LD57R

KDL 414 is a Bristol LD6G with the usual ECW H60R body, still in Tilling green, but with NBC fleetname and the white stripe. She was one of ten which were borrowed at the time, and has gained a Hants & Dorset fleet number (3493) instead of her “real” one. She is in the yard of Southampton depot on a dull lunchtime in March 1974.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

A full list of Bristol codes can be seen here.

16/10/12 – 16:57

A lovely photo of an icon in design which does speak well for the quality of the Bristol and ECW product at 20 years of age. Just a little puzzled at the seating capacity which was normally 58 seats in this first tranche of 1954 Lodekkas. The 1955 build saw seating increase to 60 seats but some operators still preferred 58 seats.

Richard Fieldhouse

Info from 1963 OBF 3 South Central

Peter

16/10/12 – 16:57

One of the early LDs with long radiator grille, as used up to 1955. The red bus behind has the same type of grille. However, it was not unknown for the long and short grilles to be exchanged during overhaul.

Geoff Kerr

16/10/12 – 17:30

KDL 401_lr

Here is another shot of one of these Southern Vectis early LD6G Lodekkas. KDL 401, SV fleet no.505, delivered in March 1954, is shown at St. Boniface Down on 28 August 1967. According to Bus Lists on the Web, this bus and its fellow no.518 above originally had ECW bodywork with a capacity of H33/21R. It is possible that this was increased later, as others within the same batch had H33/25R seating accommodation.

Roger Cox

17/10/12 – 08:46

I very much preferred the original long radiator grilles, as shown on the SV buses, to the later shorter ones which, in my opinion, ruined the look of the vehicles.
The reason for the 58 seat capacity is interesting. It arose because the inward facing seats were for two people instead of the normal three – due to the enormous intrusive differential housings, these being to go along with the original intention to have twin propshafts and diff’s to achieve the low height with the “highbridge” upper saloon. The first thirteen production models which West Yorkshire had (DX3-13) suffered from this lower saloon gangway handicap even though the transmission had already been revised to one propshaft and differential.

Chris Youhill

17/10/12 – 08:46

Nice to see a long grille version of the Lodekka, (always the DX in my mind) – relatively rare. ECW were really consistent in producing restrained and well-balanced designs. In view of Phil Blinkhorn’s contribution to the Ugly Bus Page and the majority response to the recent Queen Mary posting, however, perhaps it’s fortunate that they never produced a full-fronted version of the Lodekka!

Roy Burke

17/10/12 – 08:47

The seating arrangement when these 10 were with Hants & Dorset is noted in the PSVC listing (PK782) as H33/27R. I submitted this for consideration after reading the recent comments about a West Yorkshire MW regarding vehicles with the traditional livery but carrying NBC ’embellishments’.

Pete Davies

07/11/12 – 15:27

The early batches of SVOC Lodekkas were fitted with luggage racks in place of the longitudinal seats on one or both sides at the rear of the saloon, giving a total capacity of 54, 56 or 57 seats. The racks were installed for railway replacement purposes as the Island’s rail network was being run down. They were subsequently removed as more holiday makers came by car, seating capacity reverting to 60. Long radiators and split rear window – the real classic every time!

Trevor

Southern Vectis – Bristol Lodekka – MDL 951 – 541 / OT1

Copyright Pete Davies

Southern Vectis Omnibus Company
1956
Bristol Lodekka LD6G
ECW O60R

Here is a view of MDL 951. She was new to Southern Vectis in 1956 with an ECW H33/24R body, but, in this view, she has been converted to O60R format. She’s in the “dual purpose” version of NBC livery as OT1. We see her at Yarmouth, on a sunny evening in June 1974. The blind has just been changed for another trip and the driver walks round to check it. She isn’t mentioned in the 2012 PSVC listing, but her sister 954 is.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

12/04/13 – 12:21

I have a video on Youtube taken in 1998 showing a Southern Vectis open top Lodekka in action (10.56) near to Alum Bay (Isle of Wight Memories 1998). I cannot read the registration number because at that time I was using old fashioned analogue technology but this particular bus is painted cream all over. Also on the same video is some footage of the island’s narrow gauge steam railway.

John Barringer

13/04/13 – 12:37

John,
Thanks for your comment. I’ve now had a chance to look at your video. The Lodekka in question certainly looks to be one of this batch, but which one is anyone’s guess. The Isle of Wight Steam Railway, by the way, is normal standard gauge, not narrow. The stock just looks smaller than normal.

Pete Davies

14/04/13 – 18:20

This brings back memories of my visits ‘over the water’ to the IoW from Pompey. The Yarmouth-Alum Bay run was/is impressive. Sadly, I can’t recall what open-toppers I rode on now.
I notice that the driver appears to be wearing cycle-clips; not an unusual habit among older drivers at the time.

Chris Hebbron

Crosville – Bristol Lodekka – 4227 FM – DFG 157

Crosville - Bristol Lodekka - 4227 FM - DFG157

Crosville Motor Services
1964
Bristol Lodekka FS6G
ECW H33/27RD

Here is a Bristol Lodekka FS6G with rear entrance ECW body and dates from 1964. Crosville bought both long and short F series Lodekkas. DFG157 is one of the short ones. It was withdrawn by Crosville in 1977 and is now preserved
Photographed 8/5/2011 whilst in service at The Wedgwood Potteries rally “Take me home country roads.”

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones

21/05/13 – 15:47

I always thought the FS was a more subtle bus than the FLF with just the right amount of side profile curvature, I can never decide whether I prefer this destination indicator layout or the T type as used by West Yorkshire. The bus is a true post war classic especially when fitted with a Bristol engine, although others may differ.

Chris Hough

22/05/13 – 07:30

The Bristol BVW engine and the earlier AVW, like the Daimler CD6, were introduced in part to relax the constraints placed upon chassis production volumes by the limited supply of Gardner power plants. The AVW was a straightforward dry liner engine, and proved fairly trouble free, but the wet liner BVW, introduced in 1957, did give problems in service, and went through a series of modifications. In the 1970s, when the Stokes led Leyland empire dominated the industry, BVW production was halted and spares became very difficult to obtain. Several Tilling group companies re-engined some of their BVW powered Lodekkas with Gardner units in consequence.

Roger Cox

22/05/13 – 08:55

And it’s the “right” shade of green for a Bristol/ECW combination, not that dreadful NBC attempt . . .

Pete Davies

22/05/13 – 09:39

Roger, is of course, right in every respect. What he didn’t say was that there were continuing capacity problems at Gardner’s and British Leyland then offered the O.600 as an alternative to the withdrawn BVW option – which was taken up by Hants & Dorset and Wilts & Dorset.

David Oldfield

22/05/13 – 11:11

And once again Ken, a really superb photo of a preserved bus caught in a timeless landscape looking just as it would have in its heyday, rather than parked in a line up on some car park, all covered in rally stickers, and surrounded by stalls and people in high-vis. Keep up the good work !
I agree with you about the FS, it was a superbly proportioned design. Just ‘right’. Though the Gardner engined Lodekka almost by definition had to be the most reliable and efficient version, speaking purely from an enthusiast’s aesthetic point of view, they just had to have Bristol engines. Along with most AEC’s, the Bristol-engined Bristol was one of my favourite bus sounds ever.

John Stringer

22/05/13 – 17:51

You and me both, John – AEC & Bristol engines. But there were problems with wet-liners with both makes…..

David Oldfield

23/05/13 – 07:58

The whine of a Regent V box always made me think we`re going back to the days of the TD1 !

Jim Hepburn

23/05/13 – 07:58

Ken, thank you for posting a photograph that is beyond superb. This photograph manages to capture the very essence of Crosville, a Bristol Lodekka and a rural scene. I could look at this photograph for hours and never get tired.

Kevin Hey

23/05/13 – 07:59

May I suggest that the date was Sunday the 18th rather than the 8th? I was at the Rally and travelled on this Lodekka. It brought back fond memories of my daily travels from Gresford to grammar school in Wrexham on umpteen Crosville Ks and Lodekkas on the D1 service heading ultimately for Llangollen.
When I filmed the bus at the Rally mid-afternoon, it was displaying ‘Private’ and ‘D45’. Presumably, the destination had been changed to avoid misleading any intending passengers, though an ex-Devon General Atlantean proudly displayed ‘Dawlish’ all day.

AG 6470

This was the first time I’d attended the Potteries Rally and was amazed to see the line-up of elderly vehicles put on show by the Emerton Brothers as ‘Bounty Country Buses’. Seeing a Dennis Ace and two Crossley coaches, among other gems, was a truly heart-warming experience.

Berwyn Prys Jones

23/05/13 – 07:59

A lovely shot Ken, and good to see the bus in Tilling green as Pete says. Also good to see the Lodekka grille and surround as they should be, and not painted green as sadly Crosville appeared to do with so many of their Lodekkas on repaint. (Northern General treated their acquired examples similarly if memory serves correctly). Even if the buses were sprayed, rather than hand-painted, surely there was no excuse for such corner-cutting shodiness. Things didn’t improve with the advent of NBC’s corporate livery, as Crosville along with many other NBC subsidiaries, then painted the mudguards the same colour as the main bodywork as well. Some operators (West Yorkshire, Southern Vectis and Red & White spring to mind) at least attempted to keep some standards under NBC’s somewhat cheapened paint application, by retaining black mudguards front and rear. This did seem to lift the livery on half-cab vehicles, but sadly most NBC subsidiaries did not avail themselves of this.
While the BVW engine did have some problems with the wet liners, the bottom end was just about bomb-proof, and West Yorkshire’s examples achieved some amazing mileages between overhauls. Head gasket failures were not uncommon at one time, but much of the problem was felt to be due to the infamous CBC ‘heating’ system and its airlock-inducing pipework, rather than the engine itself. It is surely no coincidence that as WY steadily converted many of its later CBC Lodekka ‘steamers’ to conventional radiator and heater layout, the boiling and head gasket problems seemed to decrease.
As for Lodekka engine sounds – the induction roar of the AVW, the somewhat more powerful sound of the BVW, the ‘staccato’ bark of the 5-pot Gardner, the purposeful growl of the 6-cylinder Gardner (LW and LX) – I love ’em all!

Brendan Smith

23/05/13 – 10:12

…..but the music of the “pre-war” whine is part of the attraction of the Regent V. [Posted by a professional musician!]

David Oldfield

23/05/13 – 10:13

I’m glad this picture is generating such positive responses especially as I took it on the move from another vehicle. It’s very pleasing when someone says they could look at it all day. You start to see buildings etc you hadn’t previously noted.
I don’t generally argue about comments as I know next to nothing about buses. I have to confirm the date as 8th May though – it’s on the picture generated by the camera and I attach a calendar for May 2011.
I’ve now been to four of these Potteries Rallies and two at Hanley all organised by POPS. I’ve just donated all the pictures I’ve taken from all these events to their group

Ken Jones

The 8th of May 2011 was a Sunday the 18th was a Wednesday.

23/05/13 – 16:12

David O, I respect your professional musical knowledge, but with regard to the Regent V, I confess that I always felt cheated. My first experience of the type was with the Nottingham variety that appeared about 1956, and although the sound was quite nice, it always seemed to me a cheap and jazzed up imitation of the real pre- and post-war sliding mesh gearbox Regent sound. I am afraid that familiarity bred contempt for the homely soothing pre-selector Regent, that seemed almost universal in NCT at that time.

Stephen Ford

24/05/13 – 15:14

David, I must point out I had high regard for TD1s. Our local company at the time, Chieftain Buses of Hamilton had several second-hand examples in my schooldays.
One of them, which would have qualified for the Ugly Bus page, with a UF registration, so presumably came from Brighton, had the smoothest ride of any bus I have ever ridden on – including modern coaches.

Jim Hepburn

26/05/13 – 07:47

4227 FM_2

This year I had the opportunity to photograph the vehicle to the rear. It’s heading for the Potteries Rally and I took this shot from JFJ 873.

Ken Jones

27/05/13 – 06:55

On the subject of bus music, I am suffering from Regent V deficiency at the moment. I expect I’ve got a recording of one somewhere, but I don’t think my wife would have appreciated that with her lunch, so I had to make do with Sibelius 5 (the last movement has a certain similarity!).
I must confess, though, that I prefer the sound of a Gardner engine, and it is a source of frustration that, during the brief period when AEC offered them, there never were any D3RV6Gs to go with Glasgow’s D2RV6Gs and the D2RA6Gs at Rochdale and Aberdeen. Not only has this deprived me of what would have been an interesting array of sound effects, but it also deprived the world of a double decker with a Gardner engine and a synchromesh gearbox that worked properly – something which I would have thought highly desirable.

Peter Williamson

27/05/13 – 09:01

On the subject of musical parallels with the bus world, I suppose the nearest equivalent to a trolleybus would be John Cage’s ‘4 mins 33 secs’. I yearn for the day when Radio Three’s ‘Building a Library’ undertakes a comparative evaluation of this piece.

Roger Cox

28/05/13 – 07:38

I recall going to a concert in Bristol many years ago when this piece was played. It was a very ragged performance, I assume because the orchestra was under-rehearsed!

Chris Hebbron

28/05/13 – 11:01

You’ve just given me an idea, Roger. I will do an arrangement of the Cage for organ and include it in my next recital.
The music of the pre-selector is a distinctly different, and none the worse, experience from the syncro “whine” – both are equally valid. I would point out the gear-box rather than the engine is the most critical instrument (just as the building is rather the THE instrument in the Cage).
Ken. You’ve just proved how attractive the back end of a bus can be.

David Oldfield

28/05/13 – 17:00

That reminds me of a Sketch from the radio comedy programme “Take It From Here” many years ago about Cleopatra:-
….And truly men call her Desire.
Because she is so beautiful? No. from the back she looks like a street-car!

Jim Hepburn

04/06/13 – 06:57

A belated apology to Ken Jones! I was talking about the 2013 rally date rather than 2011 and should have read Ken’s text more carefully. The Lodekka attended both rallies.
The photo I sent in of the three buses owned by the Emerton Brothers was taken at this year’s rally.

Berwyn Prys Jones

05/07/13 – 06:07

For those of you who like timeless views of Crosville vehicles in preservtion may I suggest you pay my flickr pages a visit? You may have to soft-focus on a few modern vehicles and signs on some of them but there should be enough “uncontaminated” views there to make it worth your while.
Five photo excursions rounded up here:
LH visiting Wrexham-Ruthin-Denbigh-Llanrwst
www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/sets/1  
Busway RE revisits old haunts
www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/sets/2  
Dual door RE in Gwynedd
www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/sets/3  
D94 revisited with DP RE
www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/sets/4  
LH in Snowdonia
www.flickr.com/photos/crisparmour/sets/5

crisparmour

19/07/13 – 08:52

Growing up in 1960s Bournemouth the sight and sound of a Hants&Dorset Lodekka ascending Commercial Road has stayed with me over the years. The FS6G type (as pictured here) seemed a very business-like no-nonsense bus, perfect for the country roads which made up a lot of their routes. I did many trips to Fordingbridge on those as a passenger, and appreciated their rugged if somewhat spartan accommodation. Their appearance was perfectly balanced and probably the finest of all the Bristol buses IMHO.
In comparison, the local BCT buses seemed rather lady-like!

Grahame Arnold

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

03/09/14 – 07:17

Seeing the photo of DFG 157 which was based at Wrexham brought back old memories of the 1960’s where I was employed as a driver. I remember taking her over on the D1 stand on her first day in service going to Llangollen then back through Wrexham bus station to Chester and return on the D1 route. What a difference to the DLG and DLB’s previously on the D1 service.
My favourite bus in the Wrexham depot was SLG 144. This single decker had fantastic pulling power and when I was on a route with hills and it was parked up at the bus station I used to ‘swop’ it over with the one I was due to take over. When the engine was ticking over it had a strong sounding diesel ‘knock’. I also remember I got the knack of going through the gear box from 2nd to 5th without the use of the clutch using the speedometer and engine revs. Great days and in the years I was at Wrexham I never had one mechanical breakdown. SLA 42 had the side taken out of her when I was at a bus stop on Derby road when a council snow plough slid down the hill and rolled the aluminium side of it like a tin opener. Myself and conductor picked it up and put it in the bus and took it with us on a colliery run! Some years later on a school run from Mild to Treuddyn via Cymau SLG 138 went on fire under the bonnet. I emptied the fire extinguisher into the engine bay through a large hole in the side about six inches diameter and it went out. The engine restarted and we carried on to Treuddyn. Running back light to Wrexham it went on fire again and luckily a service bus came along and we had his extinguisher to put it out. We later discovered some rags had been left in the engine bay and had fallen onto the exhaust manifold. Next day I had old SLG 138 again on Pentre/Moss/Tanyfron/Brymbo. Tough old buses Crosville had.

Brian Wright

03/09/14 – 18:00

Thx for re-living your experiences with us, Brian, a part of history always worth recording for others to enjoy. Snow plough, eh? Bet you never dreamt that that would happen to you!

Chris Hebbron

United Welsh – Bristol Lodekka – SWN 159 – 323

United Welsh – Bristol Lodekka – SWN 159 – 323

United Welsh Services
1959
Bristol Lodekka LD6G
ECW H33/27RD – O33/27R (1991)

This vehicle was built for United Welsh in 1959 with ECW body, and it worked on routes in Gower. In 1969 when United Welsh merged with South Wales Transport it became 916, and in 1974 it was converted to a tree lopping vehicle. In 1991 it was acquired by the 447 Group and restored as an open topper, and registered as ACY 178A, then ACY 307A its original number having been transferred to a National Express coach. The registration number was later transferred back to this vehicle which was then bought by the SWT Group in 2010. It is seen at the Barry Island event in June 2013 although it was not in service.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones

15/07/13 – 14:44

opentopper

In response to the subject of open toppers, here’s a very extreme one. Poor old once-proud Lodekka, subjected to such ignominy. I don’t know any history of this vehicle. Perhaps somebody can tell us more. I don’t know who took the photo either, it’s just a print that has been in my spares box for many years.

David Rhodes

16/07/13 – 08:01

An open-staircase, frilly-hatted Lodekka toastrack! Looks as though the platform’s been shortened by a foot or so, too. Must have knocked a few hundredweight off the UW. In a way I agree with David R that this LD has suffered ignominious treatment, but it’s all done with such style that I can forgive them!

Ian Thompson

17/07/13 – 07:13

You get the impression that the toastrack is about to set out on a Kenyan safari. All very Colonial-looking!

Chris Hebbron

Central SMT – Bristol Lodekka – FGM 297D – BL297

Central SMT - Bristol Lodekka - FGM 297D - BL297

Central SMT
1966
Bristol Lodekka FLF6G
ECW H44/32F

This photo taken in Glasgow in the late sixties is not very good quality but the subject is quite unusual inasmuch as it was one of a batch of forty bought by Central SMT built to a length of 31ft 6in with a seating capacity of 76 arranged as H44/32F said at the time to be an attempt to match the Atlantean/Fleetline of that era.
The extra length was all behind the rear axle as can be seen by the longer rearmost side windows on both decks and the extra long rear overhang. I believe the only other company to take delivery of this extra length version of the Lodekka was Eastern National some of which may have been used on the Southend – London service, of course around this time the VR was making it’s early appearances and we all know what the Scottish Bus Group thought of that model after a very short experience.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave

05/08/13 – 08:18

The extra length doesn’t harm the proportions of the classic ECW design at all. The Eastern National versions were equally good looking and were used extensively around south Essex but the Central SMT colours enhanced the design just that bit more.
Eastern National took the extra length FLFs in both coach and bus versions. There is an Eastern National Omnibus photo pool on Flickr which shows both versions.

Phil Blinkhorn

06/08/13 – 06:16

Initially ENOC used their 31′ FLF (F and G reg) semi-automatic buses on the 151/251/351 routes from Southend/Chelmsford to London (Wood Green), and of course from Canvey to London (WG) when the 151 was diverted there in April 1971.
A couple even featured in the series On The Buses.
The coach versions were used on the Southend to London (Kings Cross/Victoria) X10 service and of course this service’s variants.
In their later lives with ENOC the buses were used all over Essex.
Of this last sanction (236) the last chassis produced was 236.337 and still exists today in the form of AVX 975G (ENOC 2614). This coach was downgraded to bus status and re-numbered 2946. It has been preserved in its original state as 2614 and is still active today.

Andy Spiller

06/08/13 – 08:28

Here’s a photo of AVX 975G/ENOC 2614: SEE: www.flickr.com/photos/ 

Chris Hebbron

14/08/13 – 06:27

Although the rear overhang looks a little long, I do think that the longer rear-window on each deck gives the body a much better proportion than the “standard” FLF. 14-ply rather than 12-ply rear tyres were fitted to cope with additional rear weight – and didn’t the staircase ascend frontwards? From what I can gather, takers for the “extended” FLF were:
Central SMT: 18 78-seater (1965); 40 76-seater (1966); 25 78-seater (1968)
Eastern National: 33 70-seater (1967); 15 70-seater, 5 55-seater coaches (1968)
Fife: 18 76-seater (1966)
SOL: 25 76-seater (1966)
All were, I think, Gardner 6LX powered, with the ENOC vehicles having semi-automatic transmission. The reason for the variation between 78 and 76 seats on the SBG vehicles was to allow additional luggage space on the 76-seaters – but why were ENOC so conservative in specifying only 70-seats on their bus versions? . . . in fact why not just order “standard” FLFs??
And, and . . . I’ve only driven a Lodekka twice, but I just thought they were horrible. Why did Bristol adopt that raked steering-wheel, which made one feel one was sitting – uncomfortably – in, rather than “on top of” the vehicle. AEC managed a “flat” steering wheel on the Bridgemaster and Renown (Albion’s Lowlander doesn’t count as it just used the standard Leyland Titan front-end).

Philip Rushworth

17/10/13 – 11:40

Yes, the “semis” did have the stairway reversed from the normal front-entrance Lodekkas – and it was cream and rather plasticky compared to their green. It also had an enlarged blunderbus compound. In my day, semis were number coded as “29xx”, 70-seat Front Entrance were “27xx” and “28xx”, 60-seat rear open backs were “24xx” and “25xx”, and IIRC “Big Bertha”, the only 70-seat open backer was “2601”, operating from Brentwood depot. We also had one drop-floor 4-abreast still about, which was number coded “23xx”.

ex-ENOC conductor

United Automobile – Bristol Lodekka – DHN 379C – L179

United Automobile - Bristol Lodekka - DHN 379C - L179

United Automobile Services
1965
Bristol Lodekka FLF6B
ECW H38/32F

The last time I posted one of my own photographs on site was the 14th of November 2010 which is three and a half years ago, now that was a very good run I think, thank you to all the contributors for keeping the site going. So as it as gone a little quiet it is back to my mostly Northern shots, the first being one of my favourite vehicles.

Seen in Scarborough bus station within the first few weeks of service a fine example of the Bristol Lodekka. These Lodekkas were powered by the six cylinder Bristol engine and boy could they go, especially down Burniston Road when on the Scholes Park Rd to Scarborough route I’m afraid I cannot remember the route number.

(After my beloved AECs) What could be better than a Bristol powered FLF? Well an FLF6B in Scarborough, of course. Some of my best holidays, and indeed some of my best days out, have been in Scarborough. (Only bettered by Whitby and Robin Hoods Bay – which are strangely now in the Borough of Scarborough). Much as I love East Yorkshire, Scarborough is in the North Riding and in United country. [I don’t care if you think I’m a bolshy old man. Traditional boundries do mean something.]

David Oldfield

15/05/14 – 07:28

Wonderful shot. These vehicles always looked so solid and well built. The Tilling Red ones always looked much better to me than the green fleets. The thing so fascinating about old bus photographs is the incidental stuff in the photos. The ‘Black & White Minstrel Show’ so politically incorrect by today’s standards and Roses Malton Ales. Bought out and killed off by Tetleys who in turn have been bought out and virtually killed off by Carlsberg!

Philip Halstead

15/05/14 – 09:49

Yes, Philip. You jogged a memory. The only time I ever saw the Black & White Minstrels live was at Scarborough – as was the only time I saw Tommy Cooper live. [Just like that!] Could be they looked solid and well built because they were, and I agree with you about Tilling Red.

David Oldfield

15/05/14 – 11:37

This is indeed a lovely shot of a handsome bus, set off nicely by that red livery. As a former West Yorkshire employee, I must confess to thinking that United’s livery had a slight edge over WY’s from the mid-sixties, when the latter started repainting its buses without the black edging between the red and cream. United retained the black edging and to me their livery then looked just ‘a cut above’. United’s later change to red-painted wheels rather than traditional black endeared me to the fleet even more. That said, both companies definitely maintained their own character, and as an enthusiast I still remained very loyal to West Yorkshire. David, I too must be a member (part time) of the ‘Bolshy Club’, as I know exactly what you mean about the importance of traditional boundaries. A friend who has lived in Newton-le-Willows all his life, still writes Lancashire on his address in correspondence. Newton is officially in Merseyside, but as he says, “it’s nowhere near the docks”. At least the proud folk of East Yorkshire won their battle to have the county name reinstated, instead of the ridiculous ‘North Humberside’ inflicted in 1974. To many of us the roads around Scarborough and the rest of North Yorkshire just do not look right with turquoise buses traversing them instead of red ones, and neither do the roads in Co. Durham and Northumberland. Sorry folks, rant over!

Brendan Smith

15/05/14 – 17:46

Living in the bubble that was Sheffield with AECs (and Leylands) it was always a refreshing delight to go into Tilling land during holidays. Favourites were United and Lincolnshire but I had a soft spot for West Yorkshire when I happened that way – even more so when London journeys linked me up with WYRCC RELH6G coaches. I also remember a journey on the X43 (?) from Leeds to Scarborough by RE. I then sampled the delights of Western/Southern National when we holidayed in the West Country, as well as Bristol on the way down. […..and of course that bastion of AEC, Devon General.] Oh well, nostalgia is a sign of old age. Nurse? Nurse?

David Oldfield

15/05/14 – 17:46

It’s interesting that Brendan notes distinguishing features between United’s and West Yorkshire’s liveries, even though both were Tilling red/cream. I felt the same in the south in the early 60’s, with Wilts and Dorset and Thames Valley. Both were Tilling red, but there was something in “the look” which usually made a slight difference to the eye – Wilts and Dorset had cast fleet number plates, Thames Valley had painted numbers, for example. I felt the same about green Tilling companies, such as Hants & Dorset and Southern/Western National. As a teenager enthusiast, I sometimes felt that Tilling companies could be rather boring because of the similarities. But once NBC corporate livery appeared, boring took on a new definition – ’nuff said!

Michael Hampton

16/05/14 – 06:53

According to Bus Lists on the web, full production records exist for 1714 of these Bristol’s of which 164 were for United. However, another 300 or so were built where only partial records exist, and some of them went to United, so its not unreasonable to assume that the actual number they had would have been nearer the 200 mark. Several United depots ran services into Newcastle, and they always looked well cared for. I cant speak for other depots, but I know that the coaches based at Whitley Bay depot were always washed by hand.

Ronnie Hoye

17/05/14 – 16:03

A fine picture of a well-loved marque. I think the route number from Scholes Park Road at that time would be the 116 cross-town service from Scalby Village to Eastfield Estate. This stopped at Scholes Park Road end on Burniston Road as no service down to Scalby Mills existed at the time.
The Bristol FLF6B did in fact have a second coming in Scarborough in 1977. Chronic bus shortages in the United fleet for the Summer season in 1976 had seen the purchase of a variety of buses from other operators and Scarborough was blessed with some very decrepit MW6G’s from Crosville which thankfully only lasted a few months in to 1977 pending despatch to Barnsley. The shortages continued into 1977 and in June of that year United acquired four FLF6B’s from East Midland which became 545-548 in the fleet. Of these, Scarborough certainly had 546-8 – the PSV Circle records the withdrawal dates as 1/79 for 546 and later in 1979 for 547-8. My office window at the time faced onto Westborough (before pedestrianisation) and it was very obvious when 547 or 548 was dragging itself up the hill from the harbour terminus on service 106 to the Hospital which was a regular turn for these buses together with other town services. There was a bus stop right outside the office and therefore a variety of aural delights during the day. It was a rather incongruous situation whereby the delightful drone of an FLF could be followed by the raucous racket of a Mark 1 Leyland National! At the time, I lived at Cloughton Village some five miles out of Scarborough and on many occasions had need to use United service 114 into Scarborough. Up to 1978, this was a decent fast service due to an old agreement that out of town services could not pick up inbound within the Borough boundary which effectively meant picking up at Cloughton, Burniston and Scalby Villages was allowed but as soon the boundary was reached, ie Hackness Road end approx., then it was non-stop into Scarborough centre which was excellent. After the agreement was re-negotiated, it was much much slower due to many stops in the densely populated area within the borough.

ANN5 66B

My photo is of 547 ANN 566B at Scarborough Westwood Coach Park in October 1979 shortly before withdrawal.

John Darwent

17/05/14 – 16:26

Thanks John my holidays in Scarborough were in from the mid fifties to the mid sixties. Every year we had a chalet on the North Bay at Scarborough, number 99 actually, and stay in a B&B in Langdale Rd, we had two ways to get back at night. Walk to the Corner Cafe (Waffle Shop) then up through Peasholm Park, Columbus Ravine to Langdale Rd. Or up the back of the chalet over the little train line on to Scholes Park Rd, walk to the top for the bus which was parked waiting in Scholes Park Rd, it was parked about 100 yds from the junction with Burniston Rd opposite a small static caravan site, not sure how it turned round, it just seemed to be always there waiting. We would go by bus in a round about way as far as Dean Rd (Fish and Chips) then down Langdale Rd

Peter

17/05/14 – 19:10

Nice shot of 547 John. It looks in tidy condition, and it must have seemed a real shame that it was soon to be withdrawn. The bus appears to have a one-track route number blind. Was this a standard Mansfield District (its original owner) fitment when new?

Brendan Smith

18/05/14 – 06:31

547 certainly was tidy Brendan but I suppose nobody wanted slow old front engined buses by then despite its condition. I read somewhere that three-track destination numbers were introduced by Midland General on deliveries in 1966 and later, so 547 being a 1964 bus was probably equipped with original fitments said to be two track. Letters seemed to be used as prefixes (the first track) with two numbers on the second track. I’m wondering whether 547 is actually displaying I16 as a makeshift compilation. Destination displays on Mansfield District buses seems to vary somewhat between two and three apertures and perhaps somebody can throw some light on this.
Peter, I’m wondering if there was a seasonal service from Scholes Park Road in the 50’s/60’s in view of what you say. My time in Scarborough started in the mid 1970’s and the earliest timetable I have is from 1984 from which I have quoted. Any buses going down Scholes Park Road could reverse at Scholes Park Avenue, so what you say is probably right. If Gordon England or Gordon Green reads this, they may be able to enlighten us! Present day services by Scarborough & District Motor Services (EYMS) operate as 3/3A and travel down Scalby Mills Road, more less parallel to Scholes Park Road, to the Sea Life Centre and then returning to Scarborough via the ‘The Sands’ residential development built on the site of the old ‘Corner Cafe’. Sadly, the aerial ride has long gone but the North Bay Railway lives on and the Open Air Theatre has recently been restored at a cost of umpteen million.
Swifts Fish and Chips is on the Dean Road/Trafalgar Road corner, about 100 yards past Langdale Road- maybe the same site as you recall.

John Darwent

18/05/14 – 07:12

I have been on Google Earth, you are right about the Fish and Chip shop John but I was wrong about Scholes Park Rd it was actually Scalby Mills Rd. At the time that large Ivanhoe Pub was the static caravan site that was called the Ivanhoe Caravan site I think there was also a shop there as well but that fronted onto Burniston Rd. Sorry about that, that’s old age for you

Peter

19/05/14 – 07:16

All Midland General’s Lodekkas had two track blinds although the earliest ones were retro fitted. As John D says though, from around 1966, three track blinds began to appear which was surprising because MGO had no requirement for them apart from a few works services which had Wxx numbers. ANN 566B was a Mansfield District bus and they all had one track blinds until around 1966. MDT’s services were numbered between 1 and 219 but only about forty of the numbers were used and the blinds carried just those plus a few extras for possible future use. Both companies had via blinds until 1966 when the T layout became standard but no via apertures were ever panelled over, those which had them carried full displays at all times, until the NBC came along, that is!

Chris Barker

19/05/14 – 07:17

I know exactly what you mean Michael when you say about certain former Tilling companies having their own ‘look’. To the casual observer, the BTC/THC ‘nationalised image’ was generally that of Bristol-ECW buses finished in either a red or green livery with one or two cream bands, or in the case of coaches, cream with red or green relief. However, looking a little deeper there were many livery variations such as Brighton, Hove & District’s red with cream window surrounds and roof, Wilts & Dorset’s red, black and cream dual purpose vehicles, and South Midland’s distinctive application of maroon and cream to its coaches. The ex-Balfour Beatty companies wore a livery of blue with cream window surrounds (Midland General and Notts & Derby) or the green version (Mansfield District). Cheltenham District not only retained its distinguished maroon and cream, but also its unusual layout. Turning to coaches, Bristol OC had its Bristol-Greyhound cream and red vehicles with distinctive lettering and logo, and who could forget the cream and black coaches of Crosville? Then there were the ‘classics’ such as Western/Southern National’s Royal Blue fleet, and the equally well-regarded cream and olive green coaches of United. In later years came Eastern National’s famous cream and green Lodekka coaches. Add to the above all the differences in destination layouts, style of fleetname and fleetnumbers, and it can be observed that the BTC companies were not perhaps as rigid in nature as some people believed. It surely provided more interest to the enthusiast than any of the big privatised groups do today.

Brendan Smith

19/05/14 – 07:17

Re 547’s number blind – as John states, from the 1966 deliveries, Mansfield District (green) and Midland General/Notts and Derby (blue) standardised on 3 track number blinds (presumably at the behest of ECW,as MGO/NDT didn’t need three track number blinds until 1978 when the letter/number route numbers were renumbered into the Trent system). Prior to 1966,Lodekkas new to Mansfield District had single track number blinds, as per 547; Lodekkas new to MGO/NDT had two track number blinds. The number partly visible on 547 looks like 106, which is probably an original MDT blind – the range of numbers used in Mansfield, 101 upwards, was not dissimilar to those used in Scarborough.

Bob Gell

19/05/14 – 07:18

With regard to the ex-East Midland (ex-Mansfield District) No.547, Mansfield District did for a long time have single track route number blinds. The number of routes they operated was fairly limited, with three distinct tranches of numbers – single digit, three digit (100 series) and three digit (200 series). Midland General and Notts & Derby of the same group, also used single track blinds for many years, but later went over to two or three track (not sure which). Their route numbering system was one letter followed by a single digit number, (i.e. A1-A9, B1-B9 etc.) This gave them plenty of scope for expansion – as far as I remember, they never got beyond the G series, though there were a few express or excursion operations that did use other letters. And of course, there was the odd man out – the route 44, from Derby to Chesterfield, operated jointly with Trent and East Midland (the only service that took Midland General buses into Derby).

Stephen Ford

19/05/14 – 07:30

My Dad came from Scarborough and as a boy all my summer holidays were spent there staying with my Grand-parents or uncles/aunties. We also had day trips in between so I have always considered Scarborough to be my second home town. In the 1960s the service to Scholes Park Road was numbered 113 and in the timetables the terminus was simply defined as “Scholes Park Road’. However, in a timetable dated 1st October 1937 the terminus is defined as “Scalby Mills Road, Ivanhoe Cafe’.
The number 113 was the highest number used for a Scarborough town service during the 1960s, the other town services were numbered in the 100-110 block. Country service numbers included 111 and 112 plus numbers above 113.
The agreement, to which John D refers, that existed between Scarborough Borough Council and United Automobile Services started in 1931 when the old tramway closed and United provided the much expanded town service bus network. (A paragraph in the book “Trams by the sea’ published by United in 1981 reads “Under a profit sharing agreement with United was that the Corporation would receive 1d per mile operated after the first 8d per mile earned. The Corporation would then take the next 3d per mile earned. Any remaining balances were halved’).
Service 116 linking Newby via Scarborough to Eastfield Estate was classed as a country service. The timetable for this (and all the other country services) contained a notation “No local passengers may be carried wholly within the Borough of Scarborough’.
We often went to the Futurist Theatre to see the Black and White Minstrel Show, had a bowl of ice cream in Pacitto’s ice cream parlour (basket furniture with a sheet of glass on the tops of the table) but our fish and chips came from Cappleman’s in Murchison Street near where some of my relations lived. Both still trading as far as I know. The “waffle shop’ that Peter mentions was actually part of the Scarborough Corporation retailing business.
In November 2012 I attended my niece’s wedding in Scarborough and was sadden to see the development that had wiped away the Corner Café and adjacent buildings. I have just added a few photographs to my Ipernity site which I took of same. So if you are of a very nostalgic disposition look away now! www.ipernity.com/doc/davidslater  
The United garage was in Vernon Road and today is a publically accessible car park run by the Palm Court Hotel. During my visit I couldn’t resist parking our car in this superb building during my stay. The main garage area which could take double and single deckers has had an extra level added. There was a basement garage accessed through a quite small entrance down the hill of Vernon Road. This could only take single deckers. I remember as a boy walking by and seeing a United Welsh coach tightly parked inside along with many others on tour and thinking this United company must be big to have a Welsh connection. I didn’t know how widespread the former Tilling Group was, nor did I know much about the British Transport Commission, at that tender age!

David Slater

19/05/14 – 09:17

911 MRB

……and of course it be came more complicated when MGO & MDT swapped vehicles, as they often did. For a short period of deliveries MGO had 2 tracks and when such examples were moved over to the MDT fleet, as in 1969 with this 1961 FS6G, there was the need for special linen so that a 2 track blind could show 3 digits.

Berisford Jones

19/05/14 – 15:37

John D,
Flattered as I am I regret that I cannot add to the discussion about the turning arrangements at Scholes Park Road. My childhood memories were of Whitby. However I can claim some connections in the area – my Uncle & Aunt lived in Ryecroft Road (just off Scholes Park Road and later my cousin on Scholes Park Road itself. In later life after marriage and a transition from transport to equestrian interests I have been a regular attender and exhibitor at Burniston Show which has occupied a number of sites in the locality.

Gordon Green

20/05/14 – 16:36

When, as a boy, I stayed with relatives in Newby in the summer, via Northstead the 116 was worked by single deckers usually an “L”. It terminated at Five Lane Ends and reversed around the corner to the stop. I don’t think it was a cross-town service then.
I have a Summer 1951 timetable for the town services (100/1/2/3/4/5/6/07/9/10/13). The 113 ran between the Railway Station and Scholes Park Road – on reaching Burniston Road. The return route is just given as the reverse of the outward route. the 109 was the seafront service whilst the 110 was the Oliver’s Mount service.

Malcolm Wells

22/05/14 – 07:21

I commented earlier on the subtle differences between the supposedly same red or green liveries borne by the Tilling companies’ buses. And, of course, there were all those other variations which Brendan and others have referred to. I then stated that the NBC red or green was just plain boring. I still think that’s generally true compared with what went before, but I have to say that John’s picture of United 547 does indeed look smart. I guess it’s because the paintwork still has a shine to it, and of course the ECW bodied FLF also exudes a certain quality. However, whether they were in smart or faded red, there was little to distinguish a United FLF from, say, a Hants and Dorset FLF in NBC days. Uniformity reigned supreme!

Michael Hampton

22/05/14 – 07:23

When at college and university I spent the summers of 1966, 7 and 8 as a conductor in Scarborough. On the 113 at Scholes Pk Road the conductor was meant to use a whistle to signal to the driver when reversing. The snag was he couldn’t hear it so we always used the bell! Some drivers reversed back onto the main road, but most reversed from the main road.
The service had three buses providing a 10 minute service. I still have my staff timetable for 1968 – There was a 10 min service from 07:00(9:30 on sun) – 23:10. For some reason the 23:00 terminated at Northstead. All the theatres had special journeys and I remember the Futurist had the Black and Whites at least two of the years I was in United uniform!

Mr Anon

22/05/14 – 07:24

LHN 736

These recollections of Scarborough and the town services, and especially the sea front service with those full fronted coaches have brought back some very pleasant memories of childhood holidays. I took this shot of BBL61 (LHN 936) opposite Corner Cafe in July of 1961 when I was just thirteen, with an old Agfa camera that my father acquired in Germany during the war. I well remember some of the town services turning round at a roundabout opposite the main harbour, and the buses threading their way through some of the narrow shopping streets leading away from the sea front and up out of the town. Some of the best holidays ever.

Dave Careless

26/05/14 – 09:33

Great picture Dave! The destination blind shows ‘The Mere’ which many will recall is where one could sail on the Hispaniola and dig for dubloons on Treasure Island. One of the ‘pirates’ did have only one leg – perhaps a war injury – a prerequisite for such a job? My Dad or Uncle knew ‘Ben Gunn’ on the island!
For many years the buses on services 100 and 101 showed ‘Edgehill Road’ as the destination which meant little or nothing to holidaymakers. I recall ‘The Mere’ starting to appear on the buses at some stage.
In the 1960s another uncle and auntie lived in a bungalow on Mere Lane overlooking The Mere, a smart property then but absolutely fantastic now, so we regularly travelled on the buses to visit.
The last time I looked The Mere was devoid of all the little buildings/kiosks for boat hire, ice creams etc. There was once an area for water ski-ing.

David Slater

26/05/14 – 11:25

Regarding the route numbers in question, I have a 1962 faretable in which the 113 was a local service from Railway Station to Burniston Road (Scholes Park Road).
The 116 was a cross-town route from Eastfield Estate (Overdale) to Newby (Four Lane Ends), but there were no short distance local fares for stages between Steamer Moor Road and Cleveland Avenue (presumably the protected area)

David Todd

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

27/05/14 – 14:03

Fascinating recollections of Scarborough town services back in the day; I think my favourite United route in the area though was the 111, which ran from Scarborough, through Filey, and on to Bridlington if I remember rightly. I can’t even think about it without suddenly smelling fish and chips, or seeing a revolving rack of ‘saucy’ seaside postcards.

Dave Careless

I am not a bus aficionado, just a casual visitor to this site. I remember Eastern National having some ‘stretched’ versions of the FLF6B or Lodekka. The rear side windows (quarterlights?) were wider, making the bus about a foot longer. However, I have not seen any photographs of them on this site. They were a very fast bus.

Martin Robinson

26/09/14 – 05:43

David C – you are right about the 111 service via Speeton and Hunmanby. It did indeed run to Bridlington where it terminated in its own little United bus station on the Promenade (east side almost opposite the superb EYMS station) – well, I say bus station but it was actually a generous forecourt in front of the booking/enquiry office, and is now the outside seating for a small cafe. Like you, fish and chips, saucy postcards, and Joyland Amusements are my treasured memories of Bridlington in the 1940s/50s where I stayed often with Grandma and Aunty Doris – now where are the Kleenex tissues (other brands are available).

Chris Youhill

Mansfield District – Bristol Lodekka – 248 MNN – 552

Mansfield District - Bristol Lodekka - 248 MNN - 552

Mansfield District Traction Company Limited
1963
Bristol Lodekka FLF6B
ECW H38/32F

A smart looking Lodekka pictured in Mansfield in August 1968. Detail differences from the THC “norm” where the livery with its larger area of cream and the destination layout. The Bristol BVW engine would no doubt ensure a refined journey on this bus.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

05/12/14 – 05:52

It’s good to see a shot of a Lodekka in something other than a standard Tilling red or green livery and with a different destination display. It almost gives a taste of what might have been if the Bristol/ECW make had been made available on the open market much earlier than it eventually was. There would have been no need then for the Loline and would we have seen Lodekkas in the liveries of such as Luton, Reading, Leigh, Oxford and Lancashire United and dare we say Aldershot & District. Interesting conjecture.

Philip Halstead

05/12/14 – 05:53

At the time of the photograph, Mansfield District had a multiplicity of starting points for their services in the town, this was one of them, Queen Street. Since then, one bus station has come and gone and Queen Street now runs past the frontage of the new bus station which is a short distance ahead of where this Lodekka was standing.

Chris Barker

05/12/14 – 11:35

No need for the Loline? Perhaps, but, good as the Lodekka was, the Loline was a better bus, and I’ve driven both.

Roger Cox

05/12/14 – 11:36

The link below will take you to some magnificent photos of Mansfield District buses, including one of the slightly later FLF/6G’s. Apart from livery, they look so much nicer when shorn of adverts. //midlandgeneralomnibus.

Chris Hebbron

06/12/14 – 07:10

Is it really on the pavement- because the road is already broken up? Clearly cared for- look at the undented dome. Does the camera lie or was that really the green?
But seriously, did these go to West Riding, post Wulfrunian or were those Gardners?

Joe

06/12/14 – 12:01

Whilst it shouldn’t have been parked there I don’t think it’s on the pavement. It’ll be well close inasmuch as the roadway at the rear was tight. It’s not ‘on stand’. There was a small cafe just behind the photographer that survived on trade from the busmen. The 101 stand was about 100yds further on. As for the condition of the vehicle, quite normal for this operator. MDT prided themselves during the 60’s / very early 70’s in not sending any dirty or damaged vehicles out on service. That policy was sadly abandoned once ‘leaf green’ appeared in the stores!

Berisford Jones

07/12/14 – 06:13

Chris H: many thanks for the link to the gallery. The Sunbeam Sikh is nothing short of magnificent, and the rake of the steering column brings us back to Lodekkas and Lolines.

Ian T

07/12/14 – 06:15

Nice to see MDT in the spotlight. I recall my first sighting of an MDT bus when I was about 6 or 7 years old, on a walk with my grandma somewhere in the Moor Bridge area of Bulwell. I identified what I thought was an MGO AEC (same style bodywork, same destination display) but it was GREEN where I was expecting MGO blue.
I remember managing to read the “Mansfield District” fleet name and was intrigued by this first (to me) manifestation of a group corporate style. Obviously I later came to understand this local grouping and always treasured the rare sightings of MDT vehicles. I think the photo captures the shade of green rather well, it was lighter than Tilling green, more a sort of apple green but its rarity in the public domain is all the more special.
Local acquisitions meant that the MDT fleet contained some rarities that sister companies like MGO did not possess, but of course these feature in my my long list of pictures I should have taken but didn’t.
The transfers to West Riding to replace Wulfrunians were rear-entrance LDs/FSs as far as I know, but this is one of the eras I need to revisit when I can get my time-machine working properly.
I suspect I am not the only one with this problem?

Rob Hancock

Eastern National – Bristol Lodekka – AVX 975G – 2614

Eastern National - Bristol Lodekka - AVX 975G - 2614

Eastern National Omnibus Co Ltd
1968
Bristol Lodekka FLF6G
ECW CH37/16F

AVX 975G is a Bristol Lodekka FLF6G from the Eastern National fleet and was new in 1968. As can be seen, she has the usual ECW bodywork, but this time it’s in CH37/16F format, so she has “reversed” livery. The Tilling Group’s answer to the Ribble White Ladies? Hardly – I’d prefer not to think about how this combination would look with a full front! She’s seen at Wisley on 11 April 2010.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

02/05/15 – 06:55

These coaches were some of the very last FLFs to be built. Like most people I liked them but apparently the semi auto ones were not nice to drive.

Nigel Turner

02/05/15 – 08:38

What a lovely picture – a classic very handsome vehicle of impeccable parentage showing clearly the dignity intensified by a very simple but bold livery.

Chris Youhill

02/05/15 – 09:29

A very handsome vehicle – it makes one regret that so few colour photos exist of vehicles of the era that interests us.
What express services did Eastern National operate? Was there a proper bus station at Kings Cross? Birch Bros. used to use the forecourt of St. Pancras Station as a terminus, if memory serves, from a week’s course I spent in a building opposite in 1959.

Chris Hebbron

03/05/15 – 06:40

There’s an audio clip of this vehicle on the Old Bus Sounds page of this site.

Peter Williamson

03/05/15 – 06:41

Thank you for your comments, folks.

Pete Davies

04/05/15 – 07:53

Chris H, ENOC redeveloped the Tilling depot in Northdown Street into a coach station after it assumed management responsibility for Tilling – my dates are a bit vague, but there are some photographs of Northdown Street coach station on this site that were posted in response to a question I raised about the same some time ago. The volume of “The Years Between 1909-1969” (Crawley et als’ three-volume history of the “National” companies) that deals with ENOC (II or III?) will contain a detailed route history – I’m decorating my study at the moment, but I’ll have a route through the storage boxes tonight and try to post a list of ENOC express services operating in 1968 . . . unless somebody else gets there first (please!).

Philip Rushworth

04/05/15 – 07:57

It was May 1963 when Northdown Street coach station opened – all the London express services passed-through or terminated there.
ENOC express routes operating “at some time” in 1968 (as far as I can work out – corrections welcomed) were:
X2 Sudbury – Brixham (jt Royal Blue, Biss Bros)
X3 Southend – Brixham (jt Royal Blue, Harris’s Coaches)
X8 London – Southend via Airport, Direct
X9 Southend – Weston-Super-Mare (jt Bristol Greyhound)
X10 London – Romford – Basildon – Southend/Canvey Island (Canvey island branch ex X7 in 1967)
X11 Enfield – Southend
X14 London – Halstead
X16 Southend – Ilfracombe (jt royal Blue)
X20 Southend – Worthing
X22 Southend – Folkestone
X23 Southend – Hastings – Eastbourne
X24 Southend – Margate – Ramsgate
X25 Southend – Great Yarmouth
X26 Southend Bournemouth
X27 Southend – Clacton – Jaywick – Walton
X28 Southend – Cambridge- Northampton – Birmingham (jt ECOC, Premier, BMMO)
X29 Southend – Derby (jt Trent, Barton, Skills)
X30 Southend – Southsea (DTC)
X31 Basildon – Southsea (DTC)
X32 Clacton – Folkestone (DTC)
X33 Walton – Hastings – Folkestone (DTC)
X34 Clacton – “Thanet Resorts” (DTC)
X35 Southend – Royal Tunbridge Wells (DTC)
X36 Clacton – Rye (DTC)
X40 Gillingham – Great Yarmouth (DTC)
X42 Tilbury – Walton
X44 Horsham – Basildon – Harwich (DTC)
X45 Sudbury – Basildon – Worthing (DTC)
X46 Southend – Norwich – Sheringham
X50 Harlow – Clacton – Walton/Jaywick
X51 Bishop’s Stortford – Southend
X52 Harlow – Felixstowe
X60 London – Stansted Airport
X70 Chelmsford – Great Yarmouth
X71 Braintree – Great Yarmouth (ex Moores, Kelvedon, 1963, from Silver End until 1966)
DTC = Dartford Tunnel Coachways, jt East Kent, M&D, Southdown
X52/X70/X71 were placed in the East Anglian Express pool (jt ECOC, Grey Green) from 25.05.68:
X1 London – Felixstowe via East London (ex ECOC A, GG 1)
X2 London – Great Yarmouth via Bury St Edmunds (ex ECOC P, ENOC X71)
X3 London – Great Yarmouth via Ipswich (ex ENOC X70, ECOC F/Q, GG 12)
X12 Harwich – Sheringham (ex ECOC QQ, GG 12)
X35 London – Felixstowe/Great Yarmouth via North London (ex GG 35)
X52 London – Felixstowe via Harlow (ex ENOC X52)
ENOC were also partners in the Essex Coast Express pool- jt Grey Green, Suttons (Clacton) – from 02.10.67:
X4 London – Walton via East London (ex ENOC X12, GG 4, Suttons)
X33 London – Walton via North London (ex GG 33)
X80 London – Harwich (ex GG 2, incorporating ENOC stage service 80 – Grey Green purchased Colchester – Great Oakley/Dovercourt stage services of Hooks in 10.1967 to facilitate provision of a London – Harwich service via stage connection from London – Clacton service at times when traffic did not justify provision of a through coach, connecting service subsequently worked by ENOC as 80/A/B but jointly licenced to ENOC/GG/Suttons.)
and not forgetting:
322 Great Cornard – Sudbury – Braintree – Dunmow – Harlow – London (stage Great Cornard-Harlow, express Harlow – London; ex Hicks Braintree-London 1950)
or the Limited Stop services introduced in 1967-8:
402 Southend – Grays – Dartford
411 Southend – Chelmsford – St Osyth – Clacton – Walton
419 Southend – Maldon – Weeley – Clacton – Walton
446 Harlow – Chelmsford
453 Tilbury – Chelmsford – Clacton – Walton/
. . . and the longer stage services into London:
151 Southend (Seaway) – Pitsea – Basildon – Brentwood – Wood Green
251 Southend (Tylers Avenue) – Billericay Brentwood – Wood Green
351 Chelmsford – Brentwood – Wood Green

Philip Rushworth

05/05/15 – 07:25

What a superb and classy combination of design and colour scheme – they just look as though each was specifically created for the other….Even the ‘bling-bling’ chrome wheel covers seem right, and you don’t say that very often when you’re talking about a double decker !!

Stuart C

06/05/15 – 07:25

Your rooting was successful, Philip and I appreciate your finding out the routes. I’m amazed at the number and extent of ENOC’s Express routes, admittedly some joint, and the wide variety of places they went to as well. I don’t recall ever seeing any of their coaches, either in London, Southsea or Essex, when I periodically visited relatives in Colchester. Strange that.

Chris Hebbron

08/05/15 – 06:40

Did Tilling operators ever have DP vehicles and a hybrid colour scheme like the famous red and black NWRCC Willowbrook/Tiger Cubs ?

Stuart C

08/05/15 – 17:35

Stuart, Wilts and Dorset had a d/p livery – standard tilling red below the waist-line, and a very dark maroon/red above, with a cream waist band and other cream embellishments. It looked very handsome. I don’t have any photos to add, but I am looking at an EFE model of a Bristol LS saloon decked out in this way, and I remember coming across them on various occasions in my youth. I think Bristol Omnibus also added more cream to their standard Tilling green/cream buses when they were d/p vehicles. Did they also add more green to some cream coaches when these were demoted?

Michael Hampton

31/05/15 – 06:37

What a fine picture of a fine vehicle. Not readily apparent in the design is that from 1967 onwards, ECW adopted a one-piece glass-fibre assembly for the front upper deck of FLFs. The body outline remained unchanged, but the moulding extended from the front dome down to the top of the cream band above the cab, and as far back as the first side pillar. The practice was continued with the introduction of the Bristol VRT in 1968. For many years West Yorkshire kept a spare VRT front upper deck assembly in its Body Shop on Westmoreland Street in Harrogate. The assembly was suspended from the side of the gantry above the woodwork shop with strong ropes, and looked to be quite a substantial affair.

Brendan Smith

31/05/15 – 09:03

Well Brendan that is a surprise and I for one never realised that such a one piece assembly had been designed by the wonderful Eastern Coachworks. Another brilliant “one piece” component, which always impressed me greatly, was at the rear of the lower saloons of the VRs. This was a beautifully styled affair which, quite apart from looking neat and pleasing, no doubt shielded the passengers from engine fumes and “soot marks” which were sadly often evident in many early rear engined double deckers.

Chris Youhill

20/07/15 – 06:58

I was a conductor in Basildon in 1970 and conducted these to Kings Cross. We had special coloured Setright ticket rolls to use on the expresses.

Mr Anon

20/07/15 – 16:40

Intrigued by Philip’s list of services above, as there are two X2 and two X3 in the list London – Great Yarmouth or Southend/Sudbury – Brixham.
I wondered if the latter had numbers determined by the joint operation, but the Royal Blue timetable has the Sudbury and Southend – Brixham service as X22, and joint between RB and ENOC (only). Similarly, the ENOC Southend – Ilfracombe X16 is listed as X23 in the Royal Blue book, and the X26 Southend – Bournemouth is X28 in the Royal Blue book.
It seems the service was co-ordinated, but the service number not — and still leaves ENOC with two pairs of routes with the same number. (Not to mention two different X23 and X28 services at Southend).

Peter Delaney

22/09/18 – 06:43

I am trying to find information about the former eastern national bus route No.30 that ran in the early 1960s between Chelmsford and London bow(Tomlins Grove) I used to see this bus parked up in Tomlins Grove on the to school in 1963 I was wondering what happened to this route regarding service withdrawal etc. as I moved away from East London when this bus route was still operating.

Christopher Johnson

24/09/18 – 06:14

The Service 30 to Bow was replaced on January 7th 1968 by a new Service 351 running Chelmsford – Brentwood and then following the 251 route to Wood Green. The weekday service was cut back to Romford in April 1971 as were the Sunday journeys in February 1973. In 2018, Service 351 runs half hourly between Chelmsford and Brentwood.

Nigel Turner

Hants & Dorset – Bristol Lodekka – 7678 LJ – 1478

7678 LJ

Hants & Dorset Motor Services
1962
Bristol Lodekka FS6B
ECW H60RD

7678 LJ is a Bristol FS6B with ECW H60RD bodywork, new to Hants & Dorset as 1478 in 1962. Under the 1971 renumbering, she became 1137. As we see, she has the offside illuminated advert panel and is in the NBC poppy red livery. She’s at Barton Park, Eastleigh in August 1976. This is where the waters become decidedly murky. The PSVC listing for this fleet (PK782) does not record her as having been painted thus, though it does mention some of her sisters, and it does not tell us when she was withdrawn. She looks to have been newly repainted in this view, but is among several withdrawn ones in W&D red, H&D green and NBC red. Any comments, folks?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

16/07/15 – 15:30

Withdrawn in 1976 according to Peter Gould website.

Graham Woods

16/07/15 – 15:31

7678 LJ was repainted into NBC red livery in June 1975, withdrawn in August 1976, and sold to Martin (dealer) at Middlewich the following month.
It had had the air suspension (at the rear) replaced by coil springs in September 1968.
I don’t have information on any subsequent owners, however.

Peter Delaney

17/07/15 – 05:46

Between 1965-69 I worked as a fitter at West Yorkshire Road Car, York Depot. The air bags at the rear usually one would loose air and the flex beam that supported it would break, the other air bag could compensate for awhile. On replacing said components it had to be reset with the levelling valve by removing alloy plates near the rear seats. Also the Lodekka had upstairs heater radiators, getting the air out of the water system took sometime if the heads etc had been off. Best fitting job I had.

Peter Lister

17/07/15 – 05:47

Thank you, Graham and Peter. I’m forced to ask, if she was withdrawn in 1976 – as my photograph suggests – then why bother with the repaint? It’s like British Railways in the Beeching era – the line closes in three weeks, so let’s put down some new ballast!

Pete Davies

17/07/15 – 12:37

………or RAF stations, Pete D. If they started tarting one up, you knew it was doomed within the year!
Happened twice to me!

Chris Hebbron

18/07/15 – 06:16

Been to Mildenhall recently, then, Chris H? The Pentagon have announced its closure within two or three years. The units there don’t want to move [to Germany] and the locals are hoping a Republican gets in at the next election.

Pete Davies

29/12/15 – 06:51

I think I can answer this one; As a local enthusiast at the time, I was making regular visits to Poole depot where this vehicle was based. I clearly recall this bus as it was in fact the first ‘later-style’ FS to be taken out of service, and this was because it suffered major engine failure and being fitted with a BVW unit, was withdrawn prematurely rather than being repaired (there were I believe, still some late LD’s in service at the time). Hope this is helpful!

Geoff

29/12/15 – 10:44

Thank you, Geoff. That explains everything!

Pete Davies

16/02/17 – 07:02

The picture of 1478 stirred a long-forgotten memory for me – and I’m hoping it may be something you bus detectives might be able to clear up! During a visit to my grandparents at Lee-on-Solent sometime in the mid to late sixties, I remember boarding a very similar bus (still happily in Tilling green at the time), and noticing it had an opening push-out top vent to the nearside outwardly curved window at the rear (i.e. the one on the back nearest to the platform doors). I have never seen this on any other Lodekka. The bus was most definitely an FS and it had cream window rubbers, so it would have been post 1961-62. As I was a keen enthusiast in those days, I seem to recall the registration was of the four number/two letter arrangement. It could actually be this very bus, or at least one of the same batch. Can anyone shed any light on this unique Lodekka?

Colin Plucknett

22/04/17 – 07:25

Colin,
I can recall the vehicle you mention; in fact somewhere I have a photo of it, but would mean a lot of digging to find it I’m afraid! It was certainly a Southampton based FS and did have a ‘push out’ type vent (normally fitted to the front bulkhead windscreen) in the top of the rear emergency door glass. It was probably done as some kind of long forgotten experiment!

Geoff Cummings