Photorapher unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1949 AEC Regal III Roe B33F
Now this is one of my favourites I have travelled miles on this bus, we had a bus club trip on this bus but unfortunately I can not remember where we went, over to Lancashire I think. This bus with its very smart Roe body was originally delivered with rear entrance in 1949 but was converted to front entrance in 1954 and became a B33F. I can remember the way the driver had to open the doors by pulling an in cab lever about 3 foot from front to back or vice versa to close them, all mechanical no such luxury as air pressure. What is a bit strange is that the Regal had a four speed crash gearbox, I wonder why the preselect gearbox wasn’t available seeing that it was standard for the Regent RT from 1938 and optional from 1947 for the Regent III.
Strictly speaking, the preselect box was standard on all Regent/Regal IIIs, from 1947 especially with 9.6 engines. Sheffield, like Halifax, is particularly mountainous and both authorities specified non-standard AECs for a number of years. [Pre-war they continued to have 8.8 engine long after the 7.7 had become standard.] It is generally agreed that a manual box gives more ultimate control than an epicyclic box – especially in hilly conditions. Sheffield went from preselectors to manual in 1952 for Regent III and Regal IV and stuck with manual box AECs, and Leylands, until 1961.
David Oldfield
Sorry wrong, they had pre selector gearboxes and I am sure 9.6 engines, 73 and 74 were similar Regal chassis built with double deck bodies, I am sure about the pre selector as I often climbed in the cabs of this and 269 at the back of Elmwood depot but as can be seen the door move seriously weakened the body which fell apart, the chassis would have lasted forever.
Christopher
I checked they definitely had 9.6 engines
Christopher
The pre select gearbox was designed by a Major Walter Gordon Wilson and was originally for use by British army vehicles but London Transport & Daimler made good use of it. Daimler also used it in some of their cars.
Trevor
23/11/13 – 13:48
Peter mentioned in his caption (a long time back !) that he remembered 268 being used on a bus club trip to Lancashire or somewhere. It’s taken long enough to find it, but here is my own admittedly rather poor photo of it whilst on such a trip outside Bolton Corporation’s depot in about 1965 or 1966. We visited Rochdale, Bury and Bolton Corporation’s depots on that occasion, and here it is posed alongside a contemporary Crossley SD42 which was at the time being used by Bolton’s Welfare Department and I believe was the one that was later preserved.
John Stringer
26/11/13 – 07:29
Thanks John for jogging my memory I do not remember Rochdale but I was at Bolton if you go to this link I am on the right. I unfortunately did not have a camera in those days.
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1949 AEC Regal III Roe B32R
A Halifax Regal III bus in coach livery of all over cream with an orange waistband, there was no difference whatsoever that I know of between this Regal and one in the usual green orange and cream except the livery. This shot shows very clearly how this vehicle has been converted for one man operation by the layout of the windows to the left of the drivers cab, I think this conversion would have happened at a later date than the rear to front entrance conversion of 1953/4. You can also see the old style pop-up trafficators, one on the waistband in front of the passenger compartment doors and the other just to the bottom left of the drivers windscreen. I doubt if this vehicle would of been converted to flashing indicators before being withdrawn from service with Halifax in 1963.
Converted at the same time I am told
Christopher
13/03/12 – 06:21
If my memory is still up to scratch, the reversed livery denoted OMO when it was first tried out. Much later, a form of reversed livery was used on DP vehicles and coaches, but by that time OMO was universal on single deckers, which had reverted to normal green and orange.
John (tee)
20/09/12 – 06:55
Is it possible to read the wording underneath the Halifax coat of arms? I think the wording is “Halifax Joint Committee”. The legal lettering would have referred to the owner of the vehicle, either Halifax Corporation or, in those days, the Railway Executive. This was a JOC vehicle and the old joint crest which included reference to the two railway companies was obsolete by 1949.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1949 AEC Regal III Roe B32R
Halifax buses seemed to undergo a curious renumbering merry go round from time to time, as if fleet numbers were somehow on ration. The number 258 was a case in point. Here is another Regal III of the 1949 batch, BCP 544, which, like its fellow AJX 848 also on this site, was rebuilt from B32R to B33F in 1953/4. It originally joined the ‘B’ Joint Committee fleet as number 269, but in October 1964 it was transferred to the ‘A’ Corporation fleet as number 99. In the following month it was transferred back again to the ‘B’ fleet with the number 268, but it was then renumbered again as 258, which is the number it carries in this picture. This Regal was the only remaining example of its type when I joined Halifax Passenger Transport as a Traffic Clerk towards the end of 1964, and I drove it from time to time when training for my PSV licence in early 1965. Despite its sixteen years of service, it was a delightful and characterful bus to drive, and carried its age very lightly.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
24/10/12 – 07:58
One thing that has always intrigued me with exposed radiators is the variety of ways people find for keeping them warm. This one’s ‘appendage’ looks quite professional, certainly far better than a bit of old newspaper!
Pete Davies
24/10/12 – 11:15
I was going to refer to these over another recent posting. They seem to suggest that AEC and Leyland engines ran “cold” but did Daimlers D’s ever have them? – because they ran hot, it seems, judging by the supplementary air intake, otherwise known as leaving the bonnet side open and resting on the mudguard. Am I anywhere near, Engineers?
Joe
24/10/12 – 11:30
That’s an interesting observation, Pete. I can’t make out the exact nature of the blind on this vehicle, but, as you say, there were many different approaches. I’ve always been fascinated, for example, with East Yorkshire, which seemed to like placing an aluminium sheet over part of the exposed radiator, although, for reasons I’ve not understood, the actual treatment varied between vehicles, even ones of the same batch. Did the engineers know the fleet so well that they could tailor blinds individually, since although you could raise or lower a flexible blind, an aluminium sheet was a fixed feature?
Roy Burke
24/10/12 – 12:47
What a marvellous sight to see this morning as I land on the OBP Homepage bleary-eyed ! How lucky you were Roger to have driven this delightful bus. Around this time I was still at school, and this last remaining Regal was sometimes used to transport us the relatively short distance to Woodside Swimming Baths if the more usual Nimbus was unavailable. Our local Bus Club hired it in 1965 for a memorable visit to Bolton, Bury and Rochdale Corporations – on which it performed admirably. It was almost regarded as a mascot by the local enthusiasts. Not long afterwards it was sold to local building contractor Pickles for staff transport. HPT repainted the lower panels cream before sale, and it pottered around the locality in an increasing state of decrepitude until finally scrapped. Unfortunately, the framework modifications involved in moving the entrance to the front – cutting out a large piece when there was already a weakness due to the emergency door being directly opposite, and cutting into the front bulkhead to allow for one-man-operation, severely compromised its structural integrity. The uncanny thing about your photo is that aside from the fact that 258 was scrapped forty-odd years ago, it could have been taken this morning. Parked in what is nowadays referred to as 7-Bay at Skircoat Garage, the building is exactly the same – even to having the same shades of paint on the wall, though today it is maybe peeling a bit more.
John Stringer
24/10/12 – 17:48
There was always a timelessness about the old Skircoat Garage, wasn’t there, John. One would have been only mildly surprised to chance across a tram or two, such was the period feel to the place. I wrote to Geoff Hilditch a few years back to send him copies of my small store of Halifax bus pictures, and he very kindly replied in a long letter. One of the things he told me was that the Skircoat depot, along with Elmwood, is facing demolition in the near future. Another piece of treasured transport history seems to be about to vanish. Joe’s comment about hot running engines is interesting. Gardners were always cool runners, which proved to be a bit of a problem when bus heaters became generally adopted. The vast majority of wartime Daimlers had the AEC 7.7 engine, as did the bulk of utility Bristols. Any cooling problems must have been caused by the installation design. Daimler’s own CD6 8.6 litre engine proved to be highly variable in quality between individual examples, the best being satisfactory, but the worst were as bad as the contemporary Crossley HOE7. Installations were probably made to cater for a worst case scenario.
Roger Cox
Leeds exposed radiator buses had both an aluminium plate and a roll down blind attached to it. There were two distinct designs the AEC version covered the radiator from the bottom to just over half way The one used on Titans and Crossleys was around 2-3 feet deep and was positioned mid radiator. These were generally fitted around this time of year and were removed in March/April.
Chris Hough
24/10/12 – 17:49
One of this batch came to Rochdale when I lived there in the early 1960’s to operate for the Social Services Department. If I remember correctly it was fitted with a wheelchair lift. I regret I cannot remember the number of the vehicle but it was painted in Rochdale Corporation’s then new livery of cream with a single blue band. It was a case of what might have been as Rochdale was of course a staunch AEC user but never actually had any post-war single deck half cabs.
Philip Halstead
25/10/12 – 07:14
Isn’t it interesting how some postings generate a lot of comment, sometimes veering off at tangents from tangents from tangents, while other postings generate very little? It’s all part of the fun of taking part in the world of the forum!
Pete Davies
25/10/12 – 07:47
You’ve noticed that as well, Pete.
David Oldfield
25/10/12 – 12:02
Of course it’s unrelated to interest or enthusiasm, for there would be plenty of silent admirers, even with quiet posts. What always intrigues me are the posts which run their course, go silent for ages, then spring into life again! And by some queer quirk, I sometimes find the whole thread passed me by the first time round!
Chris Hebbron
25/10/12 – 12:01
The Regal that went to Rochdale was BCP 543 and it was given the fleet number 500. It said “Welfare Service” in the destination box.
David Beilby
25/10/12 – 12:03
Geoffrey Hilditch is alive and well. I met him the other week on one of his visits to Wigan. He still drives from Torquay and back. He said how much he enjoyed his time at Halifax and wondered if today’s bus managers feel the same, with all the financial pressures. I didn’t know about the garages though – they are still there!
Geoff Kerr
25/10/12 – 16:03
I agree with John and Roger – Skircoat Garage has hardly changed over the intervening years. Enjoy it while you can – word is that the site has been sold to ASDA and the depot will be demolished in the near future
Ian Wild
26/10/12 – 07:34
Hope ASDA realise that they’re going to have ghosts of AEC Regals amongst their frozen ready-meals!
Stephen Ford
26/10/12 – 07:35
Ian. How sad to think that a useful building providing work, skills, training and local employment has to die to build yet another Temple to the £1 bottle of milk. If I lived there I would never step foot inside the place but, just last weekend I bought a new camera from Curry’s/PC World built on the site of the former Winterstoke Road Garage of Bristol Omnibus Company..but not without thought.
Richard Leaman
26/10/12 – 14:16
The same thing happened to the Newcastle Corporation central works at Byker which employed dozens of people with all manor of skills, as well as being a garage they could virtually build a vehicle from scratch. Now it’s a retail park where you can buy all manor of goods, mostly produced in China. I think it comes under the definition of progress.
Ronnie Hoye
27/01/13 – 16:58
Reverting to the comments about radiator blinds/mufflers, one company that was very organised in this respect was Bristol. Their blinds had a white stripe down the middle. At various points on the system – the one I happen to recall was at Bath Bus Station – there was a miniature display of a radiator with blind. This would be set to show the desired blind setting for the day, to match temperature. The white stripe on the blind meant that an inspector could spot from a distance that the driver had set his own blind correctly. The attached view shows buses with two of what appear to have been four different settings. You can just make out in the left hand view the clips to which the upper part of the blind would be attached. It would be interesting to know whether the setting was determined by head office or locally. I can imagine there being considerable temperature variation on the same day between the coast at Weston and the high ridge of the southern Cotswolds.
Alan Murray-Rust
01/06/13 – 15:30
I’m a Bristolian and spent several years working for BOC but never knew that! Remember Winterstoke of course and was quite shocked when I saw it had gone.
Geoff Kerr
03/10/16 – 08:15
Geoff….I pass the site where Winterstoke Road Bus Garage was located just about every day and the line up of retail warehouses is just a terrible replacement for that superb garage. In my mind I see lines of K, L and KSW parked up with a few of those new fangled Lodekka’s! Once upon a long time ago I spent many an hour with my old friend Clive checking fleet numbers and spotting favourites from the safety of the grassed areas just inside the front walls. I do remember the radiator setting sign also mentioned….it is a good 40 plus years ago but have an idea there was one on the back wall of the old Marlborough Street Bus Station..in the garage/parking area…I remember seeing it/them many times and think one might be preserved at the BVBG garage. I will have a look on the next open day.
With – Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1965 Daimler Roadliner Marshall B50F
I have listed this under Halifax Corporation has that is who the Roadliner was on loan to at the time the photo was taken. I went on this bus to Brighouse on the 49 route which was normally serviced by double deckers maybe the intention was to replace them with high capacity single deckers. Halifax didn’t buy any Roadliners or any similar single deckers so the route must of carried on being serviced by double deckers. I have tried to research which operator the Roadliner finally ended up with but to no avail, if you know, let me know, leave a comment.
By 1975 this bus was with the Transport and Road Research Laboratory at Crowthorne Berks, and was used for “Guided Bus” experiments involving the bus being guided by a wire buried in the road.
Derek Lucas
It was the Daimler demonstrator, a deal was struck with Bob Crouch at Daimler to keep the bus in Halifax but it would be released back to Daimler when needed for demonstration purposes, it usually worked the 5/6 circulars and later had a green roof. The Cummins VIM V6 engine was a poor unit and lead to the early demise of these buses. In Halifax the poor roads lead to chassis body flexing and the long chassis severely restricted route availability, also with long routes such as 48/9 it meant too many unhappy passengers standing up. Finally at this time – it had to have a Gardner 6LX – or it was out!
Christopher
08/03/11 – 15:44
I believe this bus was sold in the late 70’s through the Gov auction sales at the OSDD at Ruddington, Nottm., I was a fitter at the time, my apprentice and I had a drive around the perimeter, it still had the mountings for the experimental equipment and only about 4 seats were installed.
Roger Broughton
29/08/11 – 08:14
We had a number of batches with V6/V8 engines, with Plaxton Coach Bodies for express services, FAST/GOOD HILL EATERS, but required one driver-one coach, to keep them on the road. The engine sound going through a urban area at 02.00 hrs. was out of this world!!!! Went back to LEOPARDS, after the 4th batch, that or buy a 2nd towing unit. [mind you all top management had Daimler cars by then, buy 9 get a free car?????]
Mike 9
29/08/11 – 16:31
Here is another picture of the Roadliner under evaluation in Halifax, taken, if my memory serves me correctly, near King Cross. Personally, I doubt that GGH seriously considered this vehicle as a contender for the Halifax bus orders. Knowing his fascination with all things in the bus world, I suspect that he wanted to try it out through curiosity alone.
Roger Cox
04/01/12 – 06:56
I well remember the Roadliner from my time with Eastbourne Corporation in the 1960’s. The demonstrator CVC 124C arrived in Churchdale Road depot one Sunday afternoon, I can’t remember when, it was not used in service only inspected and must have had an impression on Mr R R Davies the manager as one was ordered duly arriving in mid 1967 as No 86 (DHC 786E). I was the first driver to take it out on service as a additional bus on service 6, the seafront route, the first one man operated bus for the Corporation which I must say did not go down too well with the residents of the Meads section of the route. Two more similar vehicles arrived the following year as No’s 90/91 (EJK 890/91) all three having two door East Lancs bodies and fitted with the Metalastik suspension. As many others have commented they were very raucous both inside and out the suspension also I seem to remember chattered quite a lot but their performance was a revelation. I believe all three had to have new engines before they had covered 30,000 miles. I recall that when selecting 1st gear when stationary the N/S front corner dipped quite noticeably. My lasting memory of these buses is of stopping on the seafront to pick up passengers when the engine cut out for no obvious reason and would not restart I then noticed in the N/S mirror smoke coming from the engine bay upon investigation I found the main electrical control box and master switch had broken loose and was swinging on it’s cables with terminals shorting on the exhaust pipe after very carefully switching off the master switch I found the short circuit had burnt a hole in the exhaust pipe. Meanwhile orders had been placed for Leyland Panthers, I left the Corporation in 1969 and the Roadliners quite soon after, it has to be said the Panthers were only marginally better.
