When photographed at Brighton during the 1970 HCVC Rally, this ex Wilts & Dorset Leyland Tiger TS8 with a Harrington C32R body had been converted into a caravan. A picture of this coach in its former glory may be found here:- www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/ Although the TS8 had nominally been superseded by the TS11 in October 1939, the exigencies of war resulted in deliveries of the earlier version continuing well into 1940, when Wilts & Dorset received fleet number 186, CHR 485. The TS11 model became quite a rare beast from its eventual appearance in mid 1940, and when Leyland turned its entire resources over to war work, the final 22 TS11 chassis emerged as a result of the “unfrozen” programme in 1942. They were the very last TS type Tigers to be produced. The photo in the above link of CHR 485 in Wilts and Dorset ownership is interesting in that the glasses of the destination indicator and those of the fixed passenger windows below the opening sections have flush rubber glazing, which must surely have been a later modification to the 1940 vintage Harrington body. The same features are evident in its later guise as a caravan. I can find no current record of CHR 485 being in existence today.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
23/10/18 – 12:59
Sad that despite having survived till 1970 this superb Tiger is no longer around. Let’s hope that it’s sitting somewhere awaiting restoration, though I feel that that’s unlikely.
Ian Thompson
29/10/18 – 06:08
Sorry, the 1993 Slater/Godwin preserved buses list has it as “chassis only” with the South Lancashire Transport Society in 1986.
Peter Williamson
02/11/18 – 07:05
How come that W&D, I presume a Tilling company, ordered Leyland chassis and not Bristol ones?
Chris Hebbron
02/11/18 – 12:09
In pre-war days, W&D had close links with Southdown, and followed it’s purchasing policies rather than Tilling ones. Indeed, at the outbreak of war, a fair number of Southdown Leyland TD1s found their way to W&D because of the need to cover wartime service personnel services in their area [Salisbury Plain]. The 1942 split of T&BAT arrangements left W&D in the Tilling camp rather than BET.
Michael Hampton
02/11/18 – 12:10
The reason why is surely that this was before nationalisation, and I recall reading somewhere that before WWII Wilts & Dorset was heavily influenced by Southdown – a Leyland fan.
David Wragg
03/11/18 – 06:42
Thx for that, Michael/David. For some reason, most Tilling group company bus photos I’ve seen have always been Bristols, hence my query. My experiences with Bristol buses has been very limited and greatly influenced, negatively, by the pre-war Bristol K’s on the Isle of Wight, noisy, vibrating things, which made me think that Wilts & Dorset were very wise in buying Leyland vehicles in preference! My other was riding in more civilised post-war Bristol K’s from Fareham Bus Station to Warsash when, living in Southsea, I was posted, for some bizarre reason, to RAF Calshot for a my last 6 weeks National Service!
Chris Hebbron
03/11/18 – 06:44
There were actually quite a few BTC companies that used Leylands – Cumberland, Lincolnshire, Western and Southern National – and even Bristol Tramways & Carriage Company itself!
Stephen Ford
04/11/18 – 07:24
The Slater/Goodwin book told a partially correct story. The chassis of CHR 485 came to the South Lancashire Transport Society from the well known Bolton PSV dealer – Lister’s. It was acquired as a donor vehicle to aid the restoration of Ribble Tiger 209 (1400), RN 7588. Upon completion of RN, the chassis of CHR was stripped for anything useable and scrapped locally.
Mike Norris
12/12/18 – 08:49
United also had many Leylands, especially fir their London coach services.
Peter Stobart
26/01/19 – 10:02
I remember seeing what remained of CHR 485 at an open day where preserved buses were kept around 1983 at Bolton (Smithills Road rings a bell, please forgive me if I am incorrect). By this time only the front of the cab & chassis remained, great pity when it looked so nice thirteen years earlier & could have been put back to original
Andrew Spriggs
I was very surprised to see a photo of CHR 485 on your page. I and two colleagues bought this bus from Norman Myers (Bolton) in 1973 with a view to restoring it. It was our first venture into restoration however the enthusiasm of our then youth was not matched by any experience and we had to admit defeat after at couple of years when we sold it on. CHR 485 was rebodied by Portsmouth Aviation hence the unusual window panels, however it had been later altered to transport racing cars so the interior had been stripped out and the rear end substantially modified. The engine still ran when we acquired it however we discovered a substantial crack in the block which looked very expensive for our modest means. I have always wondered what became of it and am pleased to learn that it was a useful donor vehicle although would have loved to see it back to working condition. Time moves on and I have since acquired and restored a Warrington PD1 (EED 5) that I have now owned for over 40 years and which continues to attend several rallies each year.
Rye Hill Park Coaches 1936 Leyland TS7 Harrington C32F
In May and June 1936 Maidstone & District bought twenty oil engined Leyland TS7 coaches with Harrington C32F bodies. These proved to be excellent purchases, but after thirteen years, including wartime, of hard work, the Harrington bodies showed signs of fatigue. During 1949 and 1950 the entire batch was equipped with new Harrington coachwork, again C32F, and went on to give upwards of eight further years of service. Seventeen were sold to a dealer in October 1958, but the remaining three survived until 1962. CKO 979, Maidstone & District No. CO 576, was one of those sold in 1958, serving first with Diadem Coaches of Luton before passing, in July 1960, to Holmes of London SE15, t/a Rye Hill Park Coaches. It is seen here in 1960 at New Addington, a large Croydon council estate on the extreme south east border of the then borough with Kent. A year later it went to Taylor of London SE1 who kept it for just four months before selling it to Elm Park Coaches of Romford in August 1961. Its subsequent history is not recorded. I acknowledge the Classic Buses website as the source of the historical detail.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
05/09/21 – 06:00
Even for a rebodied bus 25 years’ service is very creditable. I far prefer the restrained curvature of the Harrington body seen here to the exaggerated swoops that some builders went for, particularly after WWII. Do any photos of CKO 979 after rebodying survive?
Ian Thompson
06/09/21 – 07:26
Ian, I presume that you mean “Do any photos of CKO979 BEFORE rebodying survive?” This photo was taken after rebodying!
Nigel Frampton
06/09/21 – 07:31
Not of the same group, Ian, but here, nevertheless, is a 1936 M&D TS7 with original Harrington body. I used to travel from Kingston-on-Thames to Portsmouth on Southdown’s TS7s with this body type in the early to mid 1950s, although theirs had a sliding sunshine roof, on one occasion being opened at the Hindhead tea/toilet layover on a hot summer’s day!
Copyright: R.Marshall, via Bristol Vintage Bus Group
This shot is from the Ray Soper gallery contribution titled “Harper Brothers of Heath Hayes” click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments to it. The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.
JYC 855 is a Leyland PS1 with a Harrington Fin C33F body dating from 1947 and registered in March 1948 to Scarlet Pimpernel Motors of Minehead in Somerset, and is now part of the Roger Burdett collection. It was new to Porlock Weir Motor Services (trading as Blue Motors) in March 1948 with a glorious Harrington “fin” body (the fin is not visible in this picture but you can see it at this Old Bus Photos link). Blue Motors and Scarlet Pimpernel joined to form a new company – “Scarlet and Blue” – in April 1954, into which both fleets were incorporated and progressively repainted into a new red and blue livery, although JYC 855 was an exception and remained in blue. In 1960 the coach moved on to Mulleys Motorways wearing ‘Corona Coaches’ titles for their London-Stowmarket express route. In the 1970s it moved on to Ebdons of Sidcup (although was probably not actually operated by them) and eventually Toppings Coaches of Liverpool in 1992 (who definitely didn’t operate it). At this point it entered a life of preservation with Essex-based John Brenson in 1995. While there, it was repainted into the Scarlet and Blue two-colour livery and given “Scarlet Pimpernel” titles. It has for about 10 years been the proud possession of Roger Burdett in Coventry. It even has semaphore trafficators! It also happens to be one of my favourite vehicles Text by Ken Jones & Nick Webster [via Dick Gilbert] Picture by Ken Jones – taken at Winchester Bus Station 1/1/13 – in “reflective mode”
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones
02/05/13 – 18:29
We were obviously both at Winchester this New Year – and I had a ride on this impressive vehicle, impressively driven. I am a PD2/PS2 man but, like Granville Smith’s PS1/Plaxton, I couldn’t fault the Scarlet Pimpernel. As they say, when he’s due to appear on a running day – “They seek him here, they seek him there…..”
David Oldfield
03/05/13 – 07:48
Ken, that’s a great bit of photography using the shadows light and reflection almost to perfection. What a pity the slight wind rippled the puddle. I suppose you’ll now tell everyone it was a point and shoot effort. Even if it was it’s a great photo of an historic vehicle.
Phil Blinkhorn
03/05/13 – 07:51
You’ve caught that reflection very well, Ken! Thanks for posting.
Pete Davies
03/05/13 – 07:51
Excellent another perfect capture.
Alan Coulson
03/05/13 – 08:49
It wasn’t quite point and shoot – but it was hand held – no tripod and other fancy gimmicks, plus the coach was moving. Sorry about the ripples at least it was real water. On the positive side the people with the reflective jackets are not in the reflection -pure luck
Ken Jones
11/01/14 – 07:49
I was looking the Scarlet Pimpernel image above and realised I had purchased an original leaflet/handbill? from a transport memorabilia shop on the Wirral. I hope it maybe of interest.
Silver Star Motor Services 1956 Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/2 Harrington C41C
Here is a view of MMR552 and 553 fleet numbers 10 and 26, Tiger Cubs with Harrington coach bodies from the dear departed fleet of Silver Star, Porton, near Salisbury. I have seen and photographed both of them on a number of occasions, but this sighting at the “Harrington Gathering” at Amberley on 3rd June was my first of them together. They may be twins, but they are most certainly not identical twins.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
31/08/12 – 07:37
My late friend Walter Martin bought two identical Bedford YRQ/Plaxton Panorama Elite III in 1972/3 which were instantly identifiable by several small differences in livery and application – just like these two splendid vehicles.
David Oldfield
31/08/12 – 12:34
This picture has made my day! From the age of 9 I grew up in Sale in Cheshire and the Silver Star vehicle(s) doing the forces leave service to Manchester spent their lay-over at the premises of Pride of Sale, often venturing out “on hire” on local excursions. They also sometimes appeared “doubly on hire” to North Western for use on the North Wales and Yorkshire Coast services. Sadly my personal experience of their fine fleet was short-lived as they sold out to W&D less than a year after I moved to Sale. A brief pleasure, but still vivid in my memory. It’s good to see the pair together again in a recent shot.
Neville Mercer
31/08/12 – 14:29
I’m glad you found the view interesting, Neville. One of the Atlanteans, 1013MW, survives as well, but I don’t know of any of the other vehicles from the fleet. The idea of reaching destination and then running ‘on hire’ to the local operator caught me out on several occasions. The one which sticks out most clearly is a Red & White MW coach which had arrived in Morecambe on a tour and was acting as a PD3 on the L6 Heysham to Lancaster service, on hire to Ribble. Must have been a surprise for the crew to draw that!
Pete Davies
31/08/12 – 16:05
I know the feeling Pete – Ribble would seize anything on a busy day. I was always amazed by some of the oddities that would turn up at Lower Mosley Street on X60 duplicates. As I mentioned in my article (on this site) about LMS these included vehicles from East Kent and East Yorkshire which had been commandeered by Ribble staff at the Blackpool end. I also witnessed the arrival of a 36ft Yelloway Reliance/Cavalier on an X60 extra in the summer of 1966 – presumably it had operated a duplicate on their own Blackpool services and then been free for the day for other remunerative work. It also, of course, had the advantage of being able to show both Manchester and Blackpool on its destination blind, but I bet that the Allen family made them pay the top rate for the hire!
Neville Mercer
01/09/12 – 08:06
I well remember during busy summer periods working for Southdown at Eastbourne in the 1970’s and 80’s it was a case of anything goes especially with coaches that were staying on a weeks tour on days when they were not out or coaches that were on day trips, on entering the garage the drivers were asked ” what time are you leaving” if it was late enough for the coach to be used that afternoon he was asked to please see nothing was left on the luggage racks as the coach would be used, this of course was in NBC days. The favourite tour coaches used belonged to Eastern Scottish which were at different times Bristol LH’s Leyland Leopards and on one occasion a Seddon Pennine VII. another favourite was Western Welsh nearly always a Leopard but among other companies featured was a Crosville Bedford VAM. My fondest memory of these is of taking a school party from Eastbourne to Lewes on one of M&D’s superb AEC Reliance/Harrington Grenadiers a totally blissful afternoon, the different companies vehicles driven when on express services however is a story on it,s own.
Diesel Dave
01/09/12 – 10:51
An interesting posting, and I was most amused to read the appreciative comments of some correspondents about these vehicles. I agree with them. Apart from the Leyland chassis and the different treatment around the destination indicators, however, these coaches are pretty well the same design as my recent M&D AEC posting that received rather less fulsome responses. Maybe I’m thick, but I just don’t understand that. I also agree with Diesel Dave about the M&D Grenadiers; superb describes them absolutely.
Roy Burke
02/09/12 – 15:35
No, Roy, you’re not thick! It’s taken me a while to work it out, but I think the reason for the difference of opinion about the appearance of the Maidstone vehicle versus this pair is the indicator display. These two have a modified version of what many regard as the typical Harrington front dome of the period, with two wide indicator displays. That on the Maidstone looks to be much more of a bus indicator, far more concentrated in the middle of the dome, and I’m sure the more usual style would have made it more attractive to many of our readers. A different way of applying the livery, with a lighter top, might have helped, too. I don’t suppose Southdown would have objected if their neighbour (and associate BET company) had used the Southdown style.
Pete Davies
03/09/12 – 07:54
Off subject, Neville, but I lived in Ashton-on-Mersey in the late ’70s.
David Oldfield
04/09/12 – 08:43
We missed each other by a few years, David. I moved to Nottingham when I was 19 (mid-1972) and from there to the USA for a six year spell from 1974. I blame the introduction of the NBC corporate liveries. Emigration became the only sensible option!
Neville Mercer
05/09/12 – 06:54
I can understand that, Neville. Glad you came back, though.
David Oldfield
05/09/12 – 08:40
I’m with Pete here: I’m still not a big fan of the design, but the overall styling/livery/destination display works much better (and its “polished-up”, which might help!). For me the significant differences are: the fog/spot lights and associated moulding, which when combined with the “pointy” dome tend to accentuate the vertical aspect and narrow the front; and the absence of the above-windows moulding present on the M&D vehicle (which seems to be a throw-back to the 1930’s).
Philip Rushworth
06/09/12 – 06:51
I stand by my comments on the M&D Reliance, but as I’ve said before, in the right livery an Orion can look good. This just emphasises how important livery and its application is and reinforces all the comments on this forum about kids in paintbox liveries that we suffer today with current operators. Two identical vehicles can look SO different in different colours.
David Oldfield
07/09/12 – 07:25
I agree David – but I think the converse is true as well. Many colour schemes look well on some vehicle designs but not on others. A good livery is one that is sufficiently robust (and perhaps adaptable) to be applied to different types. Even some of the big groups seem to be recognising this. For example, I dreaded the appearance of “splash it all over” washed out green when Arriva took over Cross Country Trains – but they didn’t, thank goodness!
Stephen Ford
07/09/12 – 07:25
Well, David, we could have a long discussion about the effect of livery and detailed design differences on a vehicle’s ultimate attractiveness. However – maybe I don’t possess a ‘true’ enthusiast’s appreciation of these things – but to me a basically sound and well-balanced design is not somehow transformed, Jekyll and Hyde-like, into hideous ugliness because of such elements. I can understand how one treatment might appeal more than another, but the underlying balance and elegance of Harringtons’ design on these Silver Star coaches, (‘splendid’ was your own adjective), remains apparent in the M&D vehicles, dated destination indicator screens notwithstanding. I returned to the link showing one in Hebble livery, but that exercise has served only to reinforce my view. We can only agree, perhaps, to differ – and Philip, I guess, would be with you rather than me – on this. ‘Two other points in my final comment on this issue. First, Peter’s observations. I agree that M&D’s destination screen treatment is rather ‘bus’ like. Most of their express services were short distance, on which many passengers would buy their tickets from local agents just before travel. A large, instantly readable destination screen thus made operational sense. I’m not sure I follow his point about Southdown livery, however; after more than a year with that company, I never quite understood what their express livery was, and judging by the inconsistency with which it, (and even whether a vehicle should display a scripted or capital lettered name), was applied, I’m not entirely sure that they did either. Secondly, while there is no rule that says correspondents must like this Harrington design, I find both the Silver Star and M&D versions infinitely cleaner and better balanced than the Duple coachwork on the recent Black & White posting. While looking at Hebble vehicles, moreover,I came across a Bellhouse Hartwell Landmaster of about the same date as the M&D vehicles. Now for real ugliness…….’
Roy Burke
08/09/12 – 07:05
There you go, Roy. I agree with you on your latter points.
David Oldfield
08/09/12 – 07:05
We’re back to this ‘beholder’ business again and the matter of comparisons, one with another! I don’t find the BHS vehicle THAT ugly, but this Barton monstrosity is another matter: SEE: www.modelbuszone.co.uk
Chris Hebbron
08/09/12 – 07:06
Mention of the Bellhouse and Hartwell coaches reminded me of a comment my friend the late Donald Ingham who had been a driver of these beasts told me. The drivers referred to them as Brabs this being a reference to the giant seaplane the Brabazan that flew in the 1950s. One of these coaches was sold to a old persons home in Derbyshire and had its rear end modified to take wheel chairs and eventually was sold for preservation to a group of drivers at YWD Frost Hill depot. Alas this was an abortive venture and I recently heard that it had passed to Ensign for their heritage fleet but it would appear to be too far gone. .
Philip Carlton
09/09/12 – 07:20
Wow, Chris, what a beauty! (Pardon the irony). What is it? There’s some script below the radiator grille, but I can’t make out what it says. (not ‘Bristol’, surely?). Could it be the builder’s name – I’d have wanted to remain anonymous if I’d had anything to do with it. More details from someone, please. I’m intrigued. Philip’s remark about the Bellhouse Hartwell coaches’ nickname was amusing, too. Very appropriate. I read elsewhere that they were also nicknamed ‘Sabrinas’, for fairly obvious reasons.
Roy Burke
09/09/12 – 07:20
Reference to Chris H’s link, Barton’s 657 was certainly no oil-painting, and the normally attractive livery was applied in a rather fussy way. I remember it as one of those quirky members of the Barton fleet – an in-house rebody of, if I remember its sound correctly, a half-cab Leyland TS? In the early/mid 50s it often worked on the route 10, Nottingham – Long Eaton – Kegworth – Loughborough. There were a few similar rebodies, plus the much more attractive style just visible behind, but I think there were only one or two of this particular design.
Stephen Ford
09/09/12 – 07:21
Small point, Philip, but if I don’t mention it someone else surely will. The Bristol Brabazon was a large landplane, powered by eight Bristol Centaurus piston engines mounted in pairs driving contra rotating airscrews. The huge contemporary flying boat was the Saunders Roe Princess which had ten Bristol Proteus turbo props. Both were misconceived for the post war air transport scene.
Roger Cox
10/09/12 – 07:08
As originally built, MMR 553 also featured the “V” shape front trim but fairly early on presumably had a bit of an accident and for most of the time with Silver Star appeared as we see it today.
Nick Webster
10/09/12 – 07:09
If you’re looking for ugly in house re bodies, you need look no further that the Tynesider and Wearsider of Northern General. I think one of them is still around somewhere in the North West area ‘Liverpool?’ but I’m not sure which one it is
Ronnie Hoye
10/09/12 – 07:09
You see the safe path I tread to avoid controversy with body designs! I thought, Roy, that the writing said ‘Daimler’, but could be mistaken. And thanks, Stephen, for your thoughts on the body’s origin.
Chris Hebbron
10/09/12 – 07:10
I believe the Sabrinas were SUT.
David Oldfield
11/09/12 – 06:49
I realise that we have taken something of a diversion but the excellent picture of the Barton BTS1 made me wonder, whilst the body was built in Barton’s own workshops and rightly ascribed to them, I wonder how many components were bought in, such as front wings, front dome and windscreen frames etc. I may be wrong but I can’t imagine all of these being produced by Barton, or any other operators who built their own bodywork. One thing is certain though, these were sound vehicles which gave Bartons good service. They must have been considerably better than some of the offerings from the myriad of post war British coachbuilders.
Chris Barker
12/09/12 – 06:54
Discussion on styling should also take into account changing fashion- less so with buses than coaches- as well as functionality. I think the Bridgemaster/Renown expressed a fashion for the square rather than curves, seen in buildings of that era. Liveries/trim were lightened and simplified in the 60’s. Curves were very thirties/forties and in the case of Barton, the “diner” look became a caricature. Then there is the “classic” look like the Leyland/Leyland PD2, and most ECW output, which could seem boring- but the style had to last 10/20 years. Now today… the Optare Spectra already looks dated and those areas of purposeless blind glazing in other, later designs… why? A CVG6/Roe* takes a lot of beating….(insert your own preference here)*
Joe
28/07/14 – 07:33
Just come across the site and was taken aback to see the Silver Star Leylands. I was stationed in Tidworth 61-62 and used to travel up most weekends to Manchester using Silver Star. The drivers name was Vic I believe.
Richard Hill
28/07/14 – 10:23
Glad about your surprise delight, Richard! Companies like Silver Star must have started to feel the pinch once the last National Servicemen finished their service in 1962 and their places were taken by civilians, who mainly lived locally. Strangely enough, I always found it better to go home by train, with reasonably-priced Forces Return tickets. We still had an extensive rail network then, too!
Chris Hebbron
28/07/14 – 11:49
I have some very happy memories indeed of outstanding small operators that I encountered and used during National Service 1954/5/6. First was the highly individual Green Bus Service (Rugeley and Uttoxeter) Ltd – M.A. & C.J. Whieldon – what an exotic an assorted fleet they had. Then, at Yatesbury, troop transport was provided by the wonderful R & W Febry – “Sodbury Queen” radio luxury coaches – a very smart and proud Firm indeed, and still I believe in haulage in a very big way. Later, at Patrington, East Yorkshire the contrast was fascinating – the magnificent East Yorkshire Motor Services with a glorious fleet, and the tiny Connor and Graham of Easington (Spurn Point) who provided reliable and most useful services almost into the North Sea !! In 1955/6 they had a very elderly conductress called Sally and, many years later after De-mob, I went on an official enthusiasts tour of the area, including being greeted by one of the proprietors. Near the depot at Easington I said to him “I don’t suppose dear old Sally is still around now ??” With a mischievous smile he told me to knock on the door of the second nearby cottage – the door was answered by the good lady herself and I was invited into the original “chocolate box” country cottage and made very welcome – “I’m always glad to see mi’RAF lads” said Sally followed by this classic “Of course I’m not on the buses now yer’ know.” Bless her, she must have been close to receiving HM’s telegram !!
Chris Youhill
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
25/08/14 – 07:26
Is there any record of the sold Silver Star Leyland Atlantic’s that went to Bristol Bus Company for use on the WSM routes.
Ray Kite
26/08/14 – 06:47
The ex Silver Star Atlantean 1013 MW is in active preservation, as seen here on a re-creation of Silver Star operations around Salisbury Plain in August 2009. This bus saw service with Super Coaches of Upminster and Beresfords of Cheddleton, following its withdrawal from service with Bristol Omnibus.
East Yorkshire Motor Services 1960 Leyland Tiger Cub PSUC1/2 Harrington C35F
This is the pretty village of Thornton le Dale in North Yorkshire on 11th June 1968. A pair of East Yorkshire Tiger Cubs are parked up amongst the cars awaiting the return of their tour passengers. Elegant, attractive coaches enhanced by the livery and the classy gothic script fleetname.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
27/12/15 – 09:02
Thanks for posting, Ian. These vehicles appear to have carried names. The EFE model of 692 has her named as Pocklington Star.
Pete Davies
28/12/15 – 06:32
Pocklington Star still exists, it was bought last year by Richard Macallister of Sowerby Bridge
Don McKeown
28/12/15 – 06:34
So far as I know, nine of these East Yorkshire Leyland PSU1/2 Tiger Cub coaches were given names; 675 WAT 675 Humber Star 676 WAT 676 Dales Star 677 WAT 677 Wold Star 678 WAT 678 Buckrose Star 679 WAT 679 Hunsley Star 692 6692 KH Pocklington Star 693 6693 KH Holderness Star 694 6694 KH Driffield Star 695 6695 KH Middleton Star
Ron Mesure
29/12/15 – 09:34
East Yorkshire still name some of their coaches with these names.
Chris Hough
30/12/15 – 06:33
The Tiger Cub was PSUC not PSU. The EYMS ones were late examples of the PSUC1/2, the O:400 powered PSUC1/12 was introduced soon after.
Stephen Allcroft
30/12/15 – 06:33
Just one point of divergence. I would not myself describe the use of a difficult-to-read name style like this as classy! It was someone’s idea of classy perhaps, but firstly it is not Gothic in the strict sense- Old English may be better- and it commits the great sin of departing from a company house style. The great examples of a good-looking easy to read style- apart from the timeless LT Gill Sans- were Transport or Rail Alphabet used- and mostly still used- for road signs and railways. These did drag some of the bus industry into the 20th Century, but some were still using transfers from the year dot until NBC brought decent typography but awful colours to our buses. I am not a graphic designer but I know what I like!
Joe
30/12/15 – 13:58
The truth comes out! “Joe” is really a pseudonym for Ray Stenning! Happy New Year to one and all.
Neville Mercer
31/12/15 – 07:18
Joe, LT and TfL do not use Gill Sans type face. Since the formation of the L.P.T.B. in 1933, transport in London has used Johnston type face which had been used from 1916 by the predecessor companies. Eric Gill, who was a student of Johnston, introduced the Gill Sans type face in 1928 and this has subtle differences from the Johnston one.
John Kaye
31/12/15 – 07:19
Oh! Joe. Cue ‘Eastenders’ drum effects! Happy New Year Neville and Joe – and of course wishing a Happy New Year to everyone else as well.
Brendan Smith
31/12/15 – 10:47
No, Neville, you have unmasked the wrong man. It was the butler. Or Colonel Mustard-and-Purple. I do not subscribe to the idea that liveries went wacko only recently- look at “streamlining” or those spats and swoops- but in the main the conservatism of the old big groups kept things very staid. I am really talking only of fleetnames, house styles and logos. The last Sheffield transport logo was very neat but for true minimalism, you need Doncaster Corporation: not only did the blinds tell you little else but the terminus it was coming from or going to- no route numbers- there was only a coat of arms with the motto “Comfort and Joy” (in Latin because it was Donny) which did not really fit the vibrating Utility AEC still doing valiant service.
Joe
01/01/16 – 07:01
I must take issue with Joe’s comment that the East Yorkshire fleetname on these vehicles “…commits the great sin of departing from a company house style.” The point here is that the company had a separate house style (or corporate identity) for the coaching part of its operations. This was not at all unusual – many of the “company” or area agreement operators used a different livery for their coaching activities. Sometimes it was just a different arrangement of the bus fleet colours (typically, a “reversed” livery), others used different colours (e.g. West Yorkshire, Eastern Counties, Crosville or Rhondda), while others also used a different style of fleetname, as East Yorkshire did – e.g. United, Western Welsh or Bristol Greyhound). Some went even further, and used a different name as well as livery for their coaching divisions, e.g. Devon General with Grey Cars or Western and Southern National with Royal Blue. The same could, of course, be said about the NBC itself. So the concept of a separate identity for the coaching business is certainly not unusual, and I certainly would not call it a “great sin”. I have no doubt that the companies concerned did so for good business reasons. As far as the font used, I would not dispute that clarity and ease of reading are important for things like destination blinds and other notices and signs. Fleetnames, however, are in a slightly different category, in that they often serve as the company logo as well, so that ease of reading is not necessarily the first priority. The NBC fleetnames were certainly bold, in some cases more so than their predecessors, but rather uninteresting as well – but I do agree that the colours were dire.
Nigel Frampton
01/01/16 – 07:01
Can not agree about a difficult to read fleet name as I think my pic of 677 on 24 August 1968 in the Coach Station demonstrates.
Malcolm Wells
03/01/16 – 16:19
In the early 1960’s, I worked as a Conductor at Colchester ENOC depot, during vacation from College. East Yorkshire’s Harrington Tiger Cub “Pocklington Star” was a regular visitor to the depot as one of their tours overnighted at The George in Colchester. The vehicle looked quite splendid among all the Green and Cream Bristols.
Russell Howard
04/01/16 – 06:25
“NBC brought in decent typography”??? The fleet name lettering on NBC buses was unimaginative, ugly and crude, well in keeping with NBC’s centralised, blunderbus approach to many aspects of the industry. The font used was a modified bold version of Futura Bk, tidied up a bit to make the letters look more evenly spaced to the eye. NBC’s Henry Ford attitude to bus liveries – any colour you like as long as it’s red or green – negated any identification benefit that the heavy fleetname might have afforded. Like the Malvina Reynolds “Little Boxes” song, they all looked just the same, but worse – even the colour distinctions were denied. Freddie Wood’s NBC trumpeted that it was “The Biggest Bus Company In The World”, and bland uniformity was the name of the game. In the days preceding NBC corporatism, fleetname styles and company colours represented the identities of individual operators, just as the logos of Kelloggs or Ford or Boots, for example, have stood the identification test of decades. You don’t require to read the lettering on a Mars Bar at sixty paces to know what you are buying, any more than bus passengers of the past needed to peer myopically at the fleetname of the local double decker before boarding the thing. The decipherability of destination blinds is a different issue altogether. It is invariably advisable to ensure that one’s travel objective is shared by the driver of the bus one is travelling on.
Roger Cox
15/04/16 – 07:12
East Yorkshire Stars: Went on a tour of the Yorkshire Dales when the whole fleet of Cavaliers were present. I seem to remember that there was a 36ft version called Bridlington Star. A one-off. Do I remember rightly?
Mike
25/10/16 – 07:00
Following up Don McKeown’s note dated 28/12/15 re Pocklington Star…..does anyone know if Richard Macallister still has it and if so how I might contact him? I drove 692 for Eddie Brown when I was nobut a lad…am now a retired nostalgic old !!!..but I would love to see 692 again.
Dave Hollings
25/10/16 – 14:05
Regarding Roger C.’s comment about destinations. I recently got on the Stagecoach service 124 from Creigiau to Cardiff. At the Radyr roundabout the driver took a left, rather than straight on to Cardiff, at which point all the passengers pointed out the mistake. The driver’s response? ” Don’t worry, I normally drive the 122, so sit back and enjoy the ride. All the buses end up in Cardiff anyway.” I bet that got the computerised route monitoring system thinking!
David field
25/10/16 – 16:07
Yes, David F, but if the Traffic Commissioner’s ‘monitors’ were in the area of the 124 when it followed the 122 instead, they’d record it as a failure to run. In my experience, it is not recommended for the management or staff to upset the TC!
E J Deeble Liskeard 1955 Leyland PSUC1/2 Harrington C41C
E J Deeble operated some local services in the Liskeard area of Cornwall. In June 1978 this coach originally owned by Silver Star, Porton Down who sold out to Wilts and Dorset in the 1960s was operating a service outside Liskeard Railway Station – a commendable bus/rail link. Note the raised front headboard above the destination boxes where the Silver Star motif was originally fitted. This bus can’t have been ideal for local service work because of its centre entrance.
I have been interested in this operator since I first saw a picture of 2 of their Leylands, a Cub and Comet in the book ‘Buses in Camera South West’ by Norman Aish, published in 1977. About 25 odd years ago returning from Cornwall to the Midlands I decided to take detour to Upton Cross, there I found in a Portacabin office a Mr Deeble who explained to me he was the son of the founder. He went on to chat about the company saying where ever possible they bought Leylands . He also related the story of a new Comet chassis that was shipped to a local bodybuilder (non PSV, I can’t remember the name). When the vehicle was complete it was found to be too tall to exit the building. The answer was to remove the wheels and drag the vehicle out on its hubs! (I have no idea if this is true but it is what I was told). Mr Deeble also said that the single vehicle garage next door, was not only built by his father, but he made the bricks as well! I could have chatted for ages but as my wife was waiting patiently in the car I decided it best to resume my journey to the Midlands. So a random detour proved very successful on that occasion.
John Rentell
06/05/20 – 07:21
Further to my post above concerning the Deeble Leyland Comet with a locally built body I have come across the following details in a list kindly supplied by Roger Grimley some years ago.MRL 910, Leyland Comet with a 33 seat Mashford body new on 5/50 and withdrawn on 5/71 after accident damage. As I have not heard of Mashford previously I am wondering if this is the vehicle Mr Deeble was referring to as a local body builder. If anyone has a picture I’d love to see it.
John R, no picture, I’m afraid, but apparently Mashford Brothers were boat builders who had a go at building coaches for a while. They were/are based in Cremyll, Cornwall and it seems they are still in business today as boat repairers.
Chris Barker
08/05/20 – 06:19
John, there’s a photo of MRL 910 (when past its best) on flickr – https://flic.kr/p/RMTprx – new to Deeble 5/50. According to James Taylor in his book A-Z of British Bus Bodies, Mashford built six bodies at their boatyard at Cremyll, two in 1948, two in 1949 and two in 1955. The first two were Bedford OB, ECO 746 and ECO 997 for Millbrook Steamboat and Trading Company. The remaining four are captured by photographs on flickr. MRL 764, Austin for Hawkey, Wadebridge – https://flic.kr/p/xXkkAf MRL 910 as above and URL 838/9 for Willis, Bodmin – https://flic.kr/p/xYtRjG
David Williamson
10/05/20 – 06:52
David, thank you for sending these links. When the first Mashford body appeared on my screen I was not sure what to expect, however I think they look pretty good, identifiable by there own style side flashes. The Deeble Comet looks to have suffered serious damage to the off-side front, so understandably it was withdrawn, but apart from that it looks OK for a 20+ year old motor. If I can just master printing from FLICKR I can add these shots to my lists of these operators.
Mexborough & Swinton Traction Co Ltd 1954 Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/11 Harrington Wayfarer C26C
Mexborough & Swinton acquired a number of former Southdown vehicles during the 1960’s, including this Royal Tiger with Harrington Wayfarer coachwork. New to Southdown in 1954 as its 834, it was one of a batch (830-834) of five Royal Tigers with Harrington Wayfarer C26C coachwork. However, whereas 830-833 were 8ft wide PSU1/15 models, 834 was a one-off 7ft 6in wide PSU1/11 model. Renumbered 1834 around 1960 it was used principally on the Brighton to Heysham part of their Irish tours. It was acquired by M&STC in 1965, and withdrawn by them shortly after this photo was taken in 1968.
Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer
03/02/13 – 13:22
C26C leaps out as being rather odd, but the copy reveals why the batch was seated thus. Any ideas, please, as to why this one was only 7ft 6in, when the other four were to the usual 8ft? Could it, perhaps, have been because of the need to visit parts of Ireland where a standard 8ft vehicle could have problems – but the copy mentions only the Brighton to Heysham portion of the tour, as if an operator from across the Irish Sea dealt with the rest. Interesting!!!
Pete Davies
03/02/13 – 13:24
Thanks John for the excellent picture. 1832 and 1833 were also 7′ 6” PSU1/11’s and were used for the Irish leg of these tours by UTA until return to Southdown in 1963. They were subsequently painted in the Blue and Cream livery of Bucks Coaches of Worthing, who had just been taken over by Southdown. These vehicles replaced a pair of Bedford OB’s inherited from Bucks. 1832 and 1833 were withdrawn by Southdown in late 1966.
Roy Nicholson
03/02/13 – 14:21
It is interesting to note that 1832 and 1833 were sold to UTA in order to run the Southdown “coach cruises”, never tours, that ran in Northern Ireland. Regulations in the province permitted only UTA to run PSVs. They were transferred at book value, with the agreement that they would be bought back when no longer required. At least Wallace Arnold and Barton had the same arrangement.
Berresford’s ex Wilts and Dorset (originally Silver Star, Porton Down) Royal Tiger rounds the perimeter road of Longton Bus Station on 20th June 1971. This coach was new to Silver Star in July 1952 with a Leyland C41C body as built in large numbers for Ribble. It was fitted with the Harrington Contender Mk IV body in July 1956 after a serious accident earlier that year. It passed to Wilts and Dorset in June 1963 when that Company took over Silver Star’s operations. This information is taken from a series of articles on Silver Star in Buses Illustrated from February to April 1965. Jim Berresford operated a mixed collection of second hand vehicles from his premises at Cheddleton. HWV is showing “Private” on the blind but it could just as well have been operating on Berresford”s Longton – Leek service. A collection of contemporary PMT buses are in the background. One of the final (1962) batch of Atlanteans of Stoke Depot on a Longton – Newcastle Estates working pursues HWV into the bus station whilst farebox fitted Roadliner 1063 of Longton Depot awaits its next trip to Blurton. Just in view is short Leopard 1124, another Longton allocated bus.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
10/11/13 – 08:02
If I remember rightly, Berresford’s was a bit of a rough and ready operation famous for it’s bus grave yard – old buses were simply dumped, withdrawn, in adjacent fields. They were big Leyland fans and had a number of ex Stockport all Leyland PD2s.
David Oldfield
10/11/13 – 17:33
This Harrington body was a variant of the type seen here on this site: Maidstone & District – AEC Reliance – TKM 329 – C329 . The Silver Star version seen above is rendered even uglier than the M&D style, in my opinion, by the grotesque front grilles that seemed to anticipate some of the later aberrations from the Duple stable. Thankfully, Harrington went on to redeem itself with the stylish Cavalier.
Roger Cox
11/11/13 – 08:31
The whole frontal appearance makes the body a potential Ugly Bus Page contender.
Phil Blinkhorn
11/11/13 – 15:32
I’ve seen this vehicle described as a Contender before, but surely it is a Wayfarer III? As far as I know the Contender model was for semi-chassisless vehicles such as the Commer-Harrington TS3s. However, for many years the LDB registered Harrington coaches delivered to North Western in 1958 were described in enthusiast publications as “Contenders” rather than Wayfarer IVs which is what they actually were! In that case the error went unchallenged until the vehicles had already been sold by NWRCC. Do we have any Harrington experts on board who can clarify this?
Neville Mercer
11/11/13 – 15:32
And the coach wears a sad face to express its own thoughts on its appearance, Phil.
Chris Hebbron
11/11/13 – 15:33
The body is a Harrington Wayfarer Mk 3, rather than a Contender, which was Harrington’s integral model fitted normally with a Rootes TS3 two stroke engine, apart from some for BOAC which had Rolls Royce petrol engines. The Wayfarer Mk 3 is described here:- www.thcoachwork.co.uk/way3.htm .
David Williamson
12/11/13 – 16:33
Maidstone & District had a large fleet of centre entrance Wayfarer/Reliances but also 3 similar looking but front entranced Commers, all of which were “TKM” registered.
Malcolm Boyland
13/11/13 – 12:54
You could say that Berresfords was a rough and ready operation but what a fascinating one! I always loved a trip from Leek to Hanley on the 16, or to Longton on the 106 because you really didn’t know what delight from the fleet would turn up next. I remember an ex-St Helens AEC Swift being on the stand in Longton bus station once and the driver couldn’t get reverse gear, all the passengers, some of whom were quite old, dutifully got off and helped to push the bus off the stand! It must be said though that everything Berresfords operated was smartly painted in fleet livery of red and ivory with the fleetname quite professionally applied. They were nearly always fitted with a destination blind of some sort. Such a shame that Jim Berresford’s untimely death brought it all to an end, it was one of those truly characterful operators which are sadly missed.
Chris Barker
10/12/13 – 06:38
Recent contributors may be interested to know that my book, Berresfords Motors of Cheddleton, is due to be published this week by MDS Books/Venture Publishing.
Eric Wain
11/12/13 – 06:30
Yes indeed Eric, I enquired about it at last Saturday’s Transport fair at the Manchester Museum. This is one volume I’m really looking forward to!
Chris Barker
23/12/13 – 08:34
I’ve just finished reading Eric’s book and can heartily recommend it. A decent history of Berresfords has been needed for donkey’s years and Eric has finally come up with the goods – and I would still be saying that even if we didn’t share a publisher!
Neville Mercer
03/03/14 – 07:26
Eric, I have just purchased and read your superb book on Berresfords, an operator that has long fascinated me (and no doubt many other enthusiasts) even though I only visited the depot a couple of times. A couple of points – you don’t mention in the book the large number of vehicles which must have been purchased for spares only, on both my visits a lot of the derelict buses seemed to fall into that category but I doubt there is any record. Amongst others the “West’s” RTL, and on my second visit a Western SMT Fleetline, GMT ex North Western RE and several ex NBC single deckers. My second query is how did Jim decide on withdrawal whether to keep a vehicle round the back for spares, or sell it on either for service or scrap. And whilst many obviously stayed in the yard for years, other derelicts must have been disposed of long before the PMT takeover.
Michael Keeley
20/05/14 – 08:30
Thank you, gentlemen, for your kind comments regarding my book. With regard to the withdrawn vehicles and those purchased for spares, there were two reasons why this aspect could not be covered. Given the large number of vehicles which fell into these categories over the years, it became obvious that other text or photos within the book would have to be forfeited in view of space limitations. Secondly, although there was much information available about many vehicles acquired for spares etc., it was known that the list would certainly be far from complete and it was decided not to produce an incomplete list. From the early 1950s some vehicles withdrawn from the fleet were cannibalised and the bodies cut up rather than sold on. Some vehicles acquired for spares were treated similarly, whereas others donated useful major units and other parts and then were used for parts storage. One double-decker bought in 1949 actually donated its staircase which was incorporated into the rear of the extension of the office and workshop block! Unfortunately, I did not become aware of this until the book had been published.
Black & White Motorways 1965 Leyland Leopard PSU3/3R Harrington C47F
DDG 256C is a Leyland Leopard with Harrington coachwork, in the fleet of Black & White Motorways of Cheltenham. We see her at Southampton Coach Station – the “real” one in Bedford Place – on 22 August 1970. She’s on an Associated Motorways (remember?) service to Derby.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
03/01/16 – 10:44
256, Black & White/A M, Harrington. She would have been on the cross country service via Oxford that ran with connexions at Oxford with the Northampton – Bournemouth service crewed by outbased drivers.
Mike
07/01/16 – 08:36
If the Derby destination is correct, a check of the Associated Motorways timetable suggests this is more likely to be operating a summer Saturday journey which used the M5 and kept through traffic out of Cheltenham. It’s 09:34 from Portsmouth, 11:15 Southampton to Derby for 19:50. Non-stop from Southampton to Kidderminster apart from a halt at Strensham services. I don’t think Derby was served off the daily Oxford “mini interchange” – just Northampton and Nottingham by further connection.
Mike Grant
19/01/16 – 10:19
The timetable and the fare chart, where two things. The fare chart had routes that we could combine, often services, that include a mileage charge to be paid to Western/Southern National or other operators for running at peak times on their routes. This was so one coach would take the overloads for a couple of routes, often to cover holiday fortnights. At certain time of the year seasoned travellers would apply by post for tickets on direct coaches, from their area to the coast. Then one Saturday morning the wrong charts got printed, instead of route instructions being printed direct night service via Cheltenham ere printed. The police where not to happy, we brought Cheltenham to a stand still at 01:00 in the morning, private operators who did the same work for years made their only visit to Cheltenham to be told to go away. We did have a few deckers turn up with overloads or taxis, one decker came up from Bridgewater, when we thought we had got rid of it it turned up at 03:30, on the night service driven by a fitter with another overload, or the Red and White with 9 taxis following who wanted paying there and then. Monday morning when the traffic manager and the accountant went through the cash books the duty clerk and inspector had some explaining to do, or why they booked 7 rooms at Carrs Hotel for Ribble/Yorkshire Traction drivers who came down on overloads from various points who expected to return straight away only for us to use their dps to move the passengers on.
Mike
19/01/16 – 15:47
Yes, the Derby destination is correct. This entry on the blind shows quite clearly on my original, but please, nobody ask me to translate the windscreen sticker!
