Tag: Harrington

Yelloway – AEC Reliance 4U3RA – CDK 856C

Yelloway - AEC Reliance 4U3RA - CDK 856C

Yelloway Motor Services
1965
AEC Reliance 4U3RA
Harrington “Cavalier” C45F

As it is Sunday I think we will go posh again and have another coach trip this time courtesy of “Yelloway Motor Services” of Rochdale Lancashire. Taken at the 1966 Blackpool Coach Rally this coach was entered number 18, unfortunately “Harrington” body builders ceased trading that very same year, shame really this was a very classic look for the mid sixties.
The same was also to happen to “Yelloway” this a short extract from Peter Goulds excellent web site giving the history of Yelloway.

On the 5th July 1985, following the retirement of Managing Director Mr. Hubert Allen, who had been with the company for nearly 58 years, Yelloway was sold to Carlton PSV Sales Ltd, the UK agents for Neoplan.

Now it would appear that Carlton PSV couldn’t run a booze up in a brewery never mind a bus service, by 1988 what was once a great coach operator had gone. A bus company with a 73 year history wrecked in a little under three years, now that takes fantastic incompetence doesn’t it.
So so sad!
If you want to read Peter Goulds full history of “Yelloway Motor Services” and it is well worth doing so click here.

Sheffield United Tours/National Travel East were bought and ruined by Carlton PSV as well. The Yelloway Motor Services name lived on, however. If you Google Yelloway Motor Services you will find they live on – in a new incarnation – in Oldham. A modern version of the traditional livery now adorns new Neoplans, Scanias and Volvos.

David Oldfield

The man in the dark coat on the left of the photograph is Jack Wilson, the Yelloway Traffic Manager. He sported a large moustache and had a certain air about him. As office boys we revered him. When he was dressing down a driver he often included the word ‘boy’ when addressing the man which was never well received. (For example ‘You will boy!). The driver of the coach, to whom Mr Wilson seems to be talking, was the regular Yelloway rally driver, Bill Grundy. He subsequently became an inspector based at the Yelloway Manchester terminals.

David Slater

07/02/11 – 20:21

It made my day to hear someone mention ‘Yelloway Coaches’ at work recently. Memories started flooding back to me about going to stay with relatives in Gloucester in the late 50’s early 60’s. I remember being woken up at around 4am, getting ready and still half asleep catching the service bus from Sowerby Bridge over Saddleworth moor to Rochdale. That was an adventure in itself! Then we’d arrive in Rochdale and walk with our luggage to the Yelloway bus depot. I loved the sheer luxury of that ‘Yellow coach’ especially after a cold draughty service bus from home. I remember Rochdale to Gloucester being a very long journey – no motorways I don’t think? but I loved every minute of the experience! Now that I’ve found you I am going to relive the experience by booking an excursion with you this year – don’t know where yet? Congratulations for sticking around so long:-)

Helen Garthwaite

09/03/2011 17:48

I have many memories of Yelloway coaches. As a child I travelled between Grandma’s, one lived in Worcester the other in Oldham so I was put on the coach and travelled alone between the two. I recall arriving at Mumps Bridge Oldham to be met by one Grandma and being taken to Blackpool by her on the coach. I did spot some old coaches near Brixham Devon and wondered if it was a museum to them. Happy days!!

Yvonne Davies

09/03/11 – 18:38

The P reg Duple Dominant mobile museum lives somewhere in Devon. It is probably what you have seen.

David Oldfield

12/03/11 – 07:09

Yelloways hold a special place in my memories. As a child I regularly travelled with my mother from Waterfoot to Blackpool. I can still remember the thrill of anticipation to see what type of coach would turn up – usually a service coach and a duplicate together. The older Burlingham bodied AEC’s were my favourite – I also enjoyed the new Cavaliers, but they never seemed to have the same character as the Seagulls! The return journey from Bloomfield Road was also exciting, as you could see all the coaches parked up and tried to guess which one would pull on to your stand – occasionally it was a hired in vehicle which I thought was a treat! Happy days

Ian Hodgkinson

11/04/11 – 05:00

I have many fond memories of travelling with Yelloway from Leicester to Blackpool, From being a lad in the fifties until the services ended in the eighties, and it is wonderful to have these memories kept alive by the dedication of others, Thank you.

Martin Cooke

16/06/11 – 15:05

I was a driver at Yelloway for three summer seasons, (1972 /3/4) I have some brilliant memories of my time there, I made friends for life, and we still get together today from time to time, and we always reminisce, Yelloways had that effect on us,and for your information, the P reg coach that you see down in Devon belongs to my friend Dave Haddock, and it is a travelling Yelloway museum, my licence and PSV badge are amongst the artifax along with other friends and colleagues of mine, you can view Daves brilliant website here it’s stacked with great and accurate info. It’s great to see the Yelloway name living on, long may it continue.

Alex McNee

16/06/11 – 17:38

I looked at the Yelloway website; very good and thanks for the link, Alex.
I did laugh at the photo, on the home page, of the steam charabanc. The body crudely bolted(?) onto the flatbed rear. At that height, you’d come a real cropper if you fell out! Just imagine, 20mph max, all that smoke steam and smuts, slightly offset by the luxury of pneumatic tyres. It’s so crude, but I’d love to have a ride in it today!!!

Chris Hebbron

29/08/11 – 08:18

In the 70’s when factory close down was coming up; Yelloways would borrow spare coaches from us, and run from Manchester to the South West swopping drivers at Cheltenham, over a weekend some coaches made 3 round trips,

Mike 9

Anyone want to guess who “us” is.

29/08/11 – 09:55

If it had been the 1950s or 1960s my guess would have been that “us” was either Hanson or Hebble. In the 70s I’m less certain – National Travel??
Mike 9 put us out of our misery!

Neville Mercer

30/08/11 – 08:16

Going by the comment under the posting for Daimler Roadliner CVC 124C, I would suggest ‘us’ could be Black and White Motorways, of Cheltenham.

Bob Gell

30/08/11 – 08:17

In another post Mike 9 tells us that “us” had Plaxton-bodied Daimler Roadliner coaches and then went back to Leopards. Black & White?

Peter Williamson

10/09/11 – 07:48

In my spotting days at Cheltenham the garage was always cleared on a Friday night for Yelloway to use as their hub. During the day you would probably on see 6 or 7 actual Yelloway vehicles, but the area around the garage would be rammed with coaches on hire to Yelloway mostly Bedford Val 6 wheelers. Those on layover would be ordered out of the garage and sent to Clarence Square and adjoining roads to park up until ready to return for the 16.30 departures oh happy days.

Trevor Walton

19/09/11 – 11:31

Does anyone know if the vehicle in the shot above was eventually bought by JayBee Coaches of Lees, Oldham ? (I used to drive one for him and this could be it).

Howard Jones

25/11/11 – 15:29

Who remembers the slogan ‘You are well away with Yelloway’ That was used on their TV advertising. There is an advert on YouTube it is only short but it is worth a look. There used to be another one on there but I can not find it.

Yelloway advert

Stephen Howarth

21/04/12 – 11:42

In the late 30s I was employed on building The Derbyshire Yeoman Pub at the junction of the A52 and the Derby ring road at Mackworth. Late morning I would try to position myself to watch a convoy of Yelloway coaches, all Burlingham AECs as they brake for the junction island. This lead me to book a trip to The commercial motor show and travelled over night to the Kings Cross bus station. after a happy tiring day I returned to Kings Cross bus station and boarded a brand new Duple bodied coach getting a front seat as a bonus. As we passed through Northampton we uncounted patches of fog. When we ran into one patch the driver braked hard as we came out of the gloom we were confronted with 2 men trying to bump start a Ford Zephyr. The look of horror on their faces is still clear in my memory.

Ron Stringer

21/04/12 – 14:25

I’ve no recollection at all of the Yelloway advertisement above, but it is superbly designed and presented – it would certainly have persuaded me to look further if I hadn’t been aware of the facility.

Chris Youhill

21/04/12 – 14:32

With regard to Howard’s question of some time ago, the Yelloway vehicle that worked for JayBee was 4640 DK. I’m doing some research on this operator for my Saddleworth Buses gallery and any additional information and any memories of driving for them would be very welcome indeed, as would photographs. Where were the vehicles garaged?
JayBee had an interesting fleet as they had an ex-Bullock’s Seddon Mark 11, a Seddon Pennine 6, a Bedford VAL and a Plaxton-bodied AEC Reliance. Actually, I might as well complete the fleet history as apart from the Yelloway coach the only other vehicle I’m aware of a was a Ford Transit.
If anybody has any photographs of Saddleworth coach operators I’d love to be able to use them in the gallery. The operators that qualify are:
JayBee
D. Illing (t/a Hillside Coaches)
Dene Coaches
Seville’s Coaches
Ken Shaw
Harold Hirst of Dobcross
Trundley’s of Springhead
Winterburn of Denshaw
There are other even older ones but they’re so unlikely that it’s not worth listing. I’d be delighted if even one photograph came to light as a result of this appeal. These small coach operators were very poorly recorded and the photographs simply do not exist. I can’t criticise as I didn’t photograph them either!

David Beilby

01/06/12 – 15:52

I have good reason to be very grateful to Yelloway – in the 1930’s. I was born in Rochdale in January 1937. My Dad, John Bannon worked at Yelloway as a Clerk and I was told that he used to act as a Conductor. My Mother, Edith Bannon (formerly Brierley) worked at a Grocers and used to visit Yelloway office to obtain small change for the shop. One thing led to another and John and Edith married and I arrived eventually. I have been a lifelong bus enthusiast – unlike my Dad who didn’t know one end of a bus from the other. Hubert Allen was the boss in those far off days. Thank you Yelloway for my ticket to life.

Eric Bannon

24/08/12 – 15:49

It is a joy to read the Yelloway Memories here and on the www.yellowaymotorcoachmuseum web site which Dave Haddock is kindly keeping up to date since I acquired the Coach Museum from him and placed it in the Bury Transport Museum. Please keep them coming in if you have Yelloway memories and visit us at Bury if you can, checking the web site first as it still travels to events. eg Rochdale Town Centre on the 6th and 8th of September.

Paul Blackburn

06/05/13 – 08:11

I seem to recall that these Yelloway machines had the 590 engine and ZF 6 speed gearbox – a superb combination. Prior to the ZF being offered, the choice for a 36 footer appeared to be either the 470 engine & 5 speed gearbox (a bit underpowered) or the 590 engine & 4 speed box (a lot under geared). There must have been some technical reason why the 5 speed could not be matched with the 590 engine but does anyone know w hat this reason was?

Bob Hunter

07/05/13 – 07:29

Could the reason the five speed gearbox couldn’t be used with the 590 engine be that the MU series Reliances originally had an affinity with the Mercury range of goods vehicles in respect of engines and gearboxes and this may have carried over to the later variants of the MU Reliance.

Michael Elliott

07/05/13 – 14:02

The MU Reliances were developed as parallel models with the Mercury lorries. I agree with every word of your post, Bob – but the 6U3ZR was better with the AH691 or AH760. [The AH590 shared with the AH470 the weakness of gasket failure and overheating.]

David Oldfield

28/01/14 – 06:46

I have fond memories of travelling to Torquay from Newcastle under Lyme for holidays with my parents and brother in the late fifties. One of the drivers I remember was named Eddie. I did see one of the recent coaches in the Yelloway fleet at Lytham in September 2013. It brought back fond memories.

Terry Henshall

30/10/15 – 16:45

I was a driver for Shearings in the late 70s and early 80s. We had Ford R1114s at that time, nothing older than 5 years old, and I will never forget struggling up the M5 bank towards Frankley Services in our new but grossly underpowered coaches while streams and streams of ancient Yelloway AECs roared past us in the third lane as if we were standing still.
But how things changed when Shearings went out and bought a few Leylands with Duple 320 bodies. They would “rev out” on the speed limiter in 5th gear, never mind 6th, and then Yelloways couldn’t catch us.

Eric Hall

17/04/16 – 06:50

My father was Herbert Holt, brother to Robert Holt the Founders of Yelloway, I remember fondly those days of Yelloway and garage at Drake street Rochdale, where I played and watched the goings on of Yelloway!

George Holt

11/07/16 – 07:33

Those wonderful coaches brought my grandparents for their summer holidays staying with us for a whole fortnight! I thought those buses beautiful as they pulled into Cheltenham having brought them from Oldham. In the early sixties ours would be the only car in the street when we made infrequent trips to Chadderton so Yelloways seemed so important. How we kept looking for them to arrive and seemed so sad at the 1pm departure. Happy days.

Alan Heaven

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

05/08/17 – 11:16

I don’t know if records would pinpoint the date but there was one famous occasion when the overnight service from Rochdale to Paignton came through Cheltenham with no fewer than 90 coaches on it. Needless to say they were spread over some time but the scheduled time was 01:30. Truly a giant operator of the time.

Nick Turner

Maidstone & District – AEC Reliance – TKM 329 – C329


Copyright Chris Hough

Maidstone & District Motor Services Ltd
1954
AEC Reliance  MU3RV
Harrington C37C

A recent posting led to a discussion about the relative importance in a PSV of economy, reliability and good looks, and I picked this vehicle as an example that in my opinion embraces all three qualities. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and my personal preferences may not be shared by others, but the lines of these coaches always seemed to me to be well-balanced and elegant in an understated way, if, perhaps, a trifle old-fashioned. The styling of the roofline around the destination indicator was a treatment popular with many coach builders and operators for front-engined vehicles, but by the mid-1950s, the effect had become a bit dated. Very appealing, nevertheless, and the epitome of high quality and pedigree.
Sadly, C329 doesn’t look its best in the photo – absolutely no criticism of Chris’s camera work, but following withdrawal it’s become scruffy and the sun’s angle casts a shadow that exaggerates the front windscreen divisions. Also, the “moustache” beading may seem fussy, but it was almost an M&D trademark. I’d be grateful for other correspondents’ views on C329’s attractiveness or otherwise.
[This link will show C328, in rather smarter condition.]
M&D were substantial Harrington customers for many years and they had almost 50 vehicles of this design in their extensive, (I’d say excessive), coach fleet. By the time I joined, they had been withdrawn from front line express duties, however, and were kept mainly to provide summer capacity. Like every underfloor-engined AEC I ever drove, their road manners were impeccable. Even the prospect of a spell at the wheel was a pleasure to look forward to. They were also both economical and very reliable.
Inside, these coaches were not, perhaps, as light and airy as some of their contemporaries, but there was no sense of claustrophobia. On the contrary, they conveyed an atmosphere of relaxation, reinforced by the wonderfully comfortable seats and by their extraordinary quietness. Their main drawback, (only drawback as far as I’m concerned), was the centre entrance, which made it uneconomic to convert them to other uses.

Photo by Chris Hough. Many thanks for his kind permission to use it.

Copy contributed by Roy Burke

A full list of Reliance codes can be seen here.

17/08/12 – 07:22

6 of this batch were acquired by Yorkshire Woollen where they were nicknamed Gunboats by the crews.TKM 304/26/347/348/9/5O were numbered 435-440. They were purchased to replace a similar number of Commer/Beadles. Another member of the batch was purchased by Hebble Motor Services at Halifax to replace an ex Red Line Reliance that was a fire victim. After YWD they went on to an operator called Davies of Ferryhill County Durham except for 436 that was broken up by YWD after a bad accident.

Philip Carlton

17/08/12 – 07:23

As a northern boy I didn’t get to see the inside. My personal view of the outside is of a fine looking coach. Perhaps one-too-many windows/panels. One less, but slightly longer would have enhanced the appearance, and the roofline over the front is not enhanced by the application of the livery. In my opinion the cream area should have followed the outline of the roof – then- almost perfection. No doubt others will say tosh, but that’s my thought.

Les Dickinson

17/08/12 – 10:26

The box for the fleetname over the destination and service number boxes doesn’t help the outline. Either omit the fleetname or omit the service number box and have the destination and fleetname side by side. Then use another BET operator’s style of livery (Ribble or Southdown) and it would make quite a lot of difference. As we are, it seems a feeble attempt at imitating the Silver Star front dome.

Pete Davies

17/08/12 – 12:32

As a Kentishman I have to say I can’t see anything wrong with the livery or layout of the destination!
Shame to see this looking so scruffy though – I remember these coaches featuring on the cover of M&D’s tours brochures which were captioned “Over the hills and far away”.
The Silver Star “headboard” was an abomination on this design and ruined an otherwise graceful look.
All these things are of course subjective…

Andrew Goodwin

17/08/12 – 12:33

Roy is right about the state of the coach and very kind about my photograph! The coach was parked in a back street in Preston and was certainly not in the M&D fleet! Like a number of fifties coaches these seem to be built like the proverbial brick Outhouse!

Chris Hough

17/08/12 – 16:29

I have to disagree with Andrew on this one – I thought that the Silver Star Wayfarer Mark 2s were vastly improved by their headboards, unlike that operator’s all-Leyland Royal Tigers and Burlingham Seagull which really did look atrocious. Preservationists seem to agree with me as both MMR 552 and 553 are still with us, and the owner of “553” once told me that there was a waiting list of people who wanted to buy the coach from him at any reasonable price. If I ever win the jackpot in the lottery I will outbid them all!

Neville Mercer

There is a posting of them both together coming shortly. Watch this space as they say.

Peter

18/08/12 – 07:40

In my opinion, which doesn’t count for much…I think that destination information on the front of bus/coaches should always be upright so that reflections are reduced and they become easier for those of us whose sight is not 20/20 to read at a glance. Obviously that would not tie in very well with the design of this coach, but I must admit that the picture of it in the link is very smart and clean…

Norman Long

20/08/12 – 08:05

Funny: until this very moment I’ve looked at photographs of these vehicles and thought “M&D coach, nice”: but all of a sudden the affinity with some nasty little Gurney-Nutting(?) bodied Commers(?) has struck me, and now I just find them hideous. Why? The “pinched-in front”, the way the front dome just seems to push the already squeezed-in front down, giving a sort of hump-backed appearance to the whole thing – and there are too many windows, which (on their own) I could live with. Ugh. In full M&D rig and in the context of when they were built it might have been a different story . . .

Philip Rushworth

20/08/12 – 09:08

Philip, nice to see there are people who can call “the Emperor’s new clothes” in the face of popular opinion.
M & D vehicles were just magnificently turned out, but I never rated these Harringtons. They got it very right with the Cavalier/Grenadier but the Bedford/Ford versions were hideous and the Legionnaire not much better. Balanced design again – you either have or you don’t.

David Oldfield

20/08/12 – 14:02

I’ve held back until now on commenting about these Harrington bodies, but seeing that Philip Rushworth and David Oldfield have entered less than rhapsodic views about them, I will say that I always thought them to be incredibly ugly vehicles. Just compare the styling with other contemporary designs using curved corner glasses at the front – the classic ECW LS coach, for example. Harrington did very much better with the Cavalier.

Roger Cox

24/08/12 – 08:36

Who’d build coach bodies – it’s a fickle market isn’t it? driven by fashion, rather than by loyalty. Burlingham got it right with the “original” Seagull then missed the “zeitgeist” with subsequent offerings; as did Harrington with the Cavalier/Grenadier; Duple seemed to judge the market right for many years until gradually loosing the plot and fading away in the 80s(?); and Plaxton seems have picked up from the mid-1960s with the introduction of the Panorama. However, history seems to suggest the Plaxton’s days are numbered, and that they are due to misjudge the market and enter decline (look what happened to Leyland et. al.) . . . but there aren’t any more British coach builders to take their place!

Philip Rushworth

24/08/12 – 12:24

You’re so right Philip. Duple lost the plot and went bust at the end of the ’80s – when Plaxton bought their intellectual rights. Duple’s is a very sad story inexorably linked with a certain Mr Ford who had previously fallen out with Plaxton and moved over to Duple – hence the vague similarity between the Panorama Elite and the Dominant.

David Oldfield

24/08/12 – 12:25

Seems I’m in a small minority in liking this design. At the risk of losing whatever tiny credibility I might ever have had in these pages, however, I remain unrepentant.

Roy Burke

24/08/12 – 15:43

You’re still welcome and entirely entitled to your own opinions, Roy. There are times when – in my professional, musical life – I differ from my colleagues. Grown ups accept each other, regardless (and I think most of us are grown up on this forum).

David Oldfield

11/02/13 – 13:27

You’re not alone Roy, I like the Wayfarer 2 style as well. I don’t think it was as nice as the later Wayfarer 4 but for an early 1950s body, I think it was quite stylish. It did make an attempt to get away from just being a box, which is so easy on an underfloor flat front single decker. I think Harrington bodies were all of real quality and generally well styled (with as always the obligatory exception). They were certainly better looking than many of the competitors’ efforts.

Gordon Mackley

14/06/13 – 07:31

The Reliance Harrington C37C don’t remember them even though grew up with M & D but can say I was on one just last week don’t remember batch but sure worked all over the M & D patch ended its days think in Bexhill can say a very impressive coach so as they say watch this space soon be out of hiding.

Paul

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

08/06/15 – 16:08

Maidstone and District’s Wayfarer 2 bodies came on three different types of chassis and they were each very different. The most numerous (in terms of both vehicles and photos) were the AEC Reliances. The Leyland Royal Tiger versions had central entrances like the AECs and might have been expected to be the same but in fact had vertical rather than sloping window pillars. The Commer Contender versions were of a completely different configuration, having front entrances. Interestingly the centre entrance coaches had front offside emergency exits and the front entrance Contenders centre ones!

Gordon Mackley

Maidstone & District – AEC Reliance – FKL 135D – C72

Maidstone & District - AEC Reliance - FKL 135D - C72

Maidstone & District Motor Services Ltd
1965
AEC Reliance 2U3RA
Harrington Grenadier C47F

Comparing the various body styles available in the sixties amongst my photos I decided that my all time favourite had to be the Harrington Grenadier.
This Maidstone & District example with it’s superb livery which complemented the sleek elegant lines of the bodywork was as near perfection as was possible, this particular vehicle was numerically M&D’s last Grenadier and also their last AEC Reliance and was still numbered C72 under the old alpha/numeric system when I took the photo in the late sixties.
They were good to look at, good to ride on and an absolute delight to drive what more could you ask.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave

07/06/13 – 05:54

Following on from the Sheffield Regent III/Weymann, another form of bliss and perfection. Apart from the beauty and elegance of the coachwork and the thoroughbred 2U3RA chassis we have M & D. Apart from the superb livery itself, why did M & D vehicles always gleam – and other operators could make their vehicles look shabby at an early age. Care and pride certainly – but that cannot be all.

David Oldfield

07/06/13 – 07:59

Used to regularly see these vehicles up close at Victoria Coach Station and DD and DO are totally correct in what they say – these and other M&D vehicles stood out amongst the multitude of operators and liveries.
The rear wheel trims used widely in the fleet and the proportions and shades of the colours used always seemed to fit their vehicles well and, yes, they were always clean.
Under NBC standards slipped and by the time I went to live in Crowborough in the mid 1980s the fleet was nothing to write home about, especially during the invasion of the Mercedes bread vans.
The final M&D colour scheme prior to the privatised company losing its identity was a return to the standards of the 1960s but that soon went under the bland uniformity of Arriva.

Phil Blinkhorn

07/06/13 – 11:34

As a number of you know already, my ‘formative years’ were spent in the Lancaster area. Ribble had Harringtons – Cavaliers – of both 30 and 36 foot lengths. I’m not sure why, but I always had the idea that the 36 group looked too long. Looking at this beauty, I think I know why. The Ribble ones had the red stripe under the windows. Here, the relevant area is cream, and it looks a lot better! Thanks for posting, Dave.

Pete Davies

08/06/13 – 08:03

Taking up David’s point about gleaming vehicles. Before pride became a dirty word, NGT group vehicles were all hand painted, and finished off with a coat of clear varnish. I cant speak for other depots, but coaches at Percy Main were never subjected to the rigors of the mechanical wash, so they were always immaculately turned out, perhaps M&D did the same

Ronnie Hoye

08/06/13 – 08:04

I can’t help but agree with the previous comments regarding the Harrington Cavalier and Grenadier coach bodies. They were indeed graceful-looking beasts and must surely rank as one of the great British design classics. They suited the elegant spa town of Harrogate very well, when either gracing the front of The Old Swan Hotel on Swan Road (Southdown Leyland), or on occasions the Hotel St George on Ripon Road (Greenslades AEC). If luck was in, smart Northern General (AEC) and East Yorkshire (Leyland) examples could also be seen travelling through the town. The Maidstone & District livery suited them admirably, and the backdrop in your photo Diesel Dave, looks ‘just right’ as well, and thank you for posting it.

Brendan Smith

08/06/13 – 08:04

36-foot Cavaliers looked over-long because they had too many small windows, which is precisely why the Grenadier was introduced. Plaxton similarly built multi-windowed 36-foot Embassies for only one season (mainly for Wallace Arnold) before doubling the window size.
I may have said this here before, but it is worth noting that the Harrington Grenadier was the final flourish of the British curvy-coach tradition that began in the mid-1930s. After that, everything was straight-waisted.

Peter Williamson

08/06/13 – 17:51

Hopefully before anyone else spots my mistake I must point out that C72 was probably not M&D’s last Reliance although definitely their last Reliance coach, it was delivered in November ’66 as was a batch of Marshall D/P bodied Reliances No’s SC 73-82 all of which had higher chassis numbers.

Diesel Dave

03/05/14 – 08:51

25 TKR

Looking splendid in their original green and cream livery these two 30′ M & D Harrington Cavaliers were on display at Detling Showground April 2014. They are the two survivors from the batch delivered in 1962, 25 & 28 TKR on an AEC Reliance chassis.

Peter Jewell

06/02/15 – 06:24

I worked for the Maidstone & District motor services during the early 1960`s from Tunbridge Wells depot, primarily as an OMB where we had to operate the entrance doors. Occasionally we got hold of a “main key” shift which entailed driving a double decker on the longer routes to Brighton, Hastings, Ashford or Gravesend. All of the vehicles concerned IE Leyland PD2s, AEC Regents were fitted with rear doors operated from the drivers cab and the rear platform with the driver primarily responsible. The only complaints from the conductor were if the driver forgot to close the doors when pulling away from a stop.

Reg Stubbs

13/02/15 – 06:15

I was for a few years a conductor and then a driver working For M & D at Gravesend depot from 1969. I am amazed that three vehicles associated with this depot from my time have survived into preservation, including 4025 or C25 in its original guise. This was a superb vehicle to drive and many a happy time was had going to Brighton or Ramsgate in this vehicle. The coach that tended to be allocated to me at Gravesend was a Grenadier and one of the six longer (37.5ft) coaches; and the only one allocated to Gravesend. I can agree they were superb looking vehicles and a treat to drive

Frank Weston

Greenslades Tours – AEC Reliance – FFJ 13D

Greenslades - AEC Reliance - FFJ 13D

Greenslades Tours 
1966
AEC Reliance 2MU4RA
Harrington C40F

Sadly the very last Harrington body to be built, No 3218, was this Grenadier C40F example on an AEC Reliance 2MU4RA chassis for Greenslades Tours of Exeter registration No FFJ 13D. This photo was taken on the 24th April 1966 at the British Coach Rally on Madeira Drive Brighton whilst the Concours judges were making their inspection. The elegant lines of the body and the restrained but attractive livery are even 48 years later a lesson todays designers and colour stylists might well learn lessons from, but being a cynical 75 year old I doubt it will happen.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave

15/09/14 – 07:02

Can’t better Dave’s comments – and nearby were the Devon General 2U3RAs as well. I’m all for Van Hool/DAFs, Setras and Scanias but oh for a world where there were up to date, quality AECs, Bristols, Leylands and Guys with Burlingham, Harrington, (real) Plaxton, Weymann and Roe bodies sitting on them. There is no excuse for selling the family silver – having things built on the continent or in the far east because wage rates are cheaper. What about a bit of pride in our own abilities. [The Germans and the French would not let it happen!]

David Oldfield

15/09/14 – 07:03

This was indeed a very attractive livery, featuring an unusual shade of green. The designation 2MU4RA denotes a “crash” gearbox, which seemed a backward step after most Reliances had synchromesh gearboxes.
The boot lid is interesting. I remember that Yelloway always specified two piece boot doors hinged from the sides to avoid people bumping their heads on the top hinged flaps more commonly used in the fifties and sixties. This design could be an attempt to avoid the problem.
The Grenadier body was a development of the better known “Cavalier” and to me was even more attractive. I agree, Dave, it is so sad that Harrington ceased production of coach bodies, at a time when their products seemed to be more popular than ever.

Don McKeown

15/09/14 – 12:00

The parallel lift boot door was a Harrington patent device, more usually used for side lockers because of often restricted space in coach stations.
It was obviously optional, as witness the side lockers on this example, and presumably cost more.
I wonder why Plaxtons didn’t take over this patent?

Andrew Goodwin

15/09/14 – 12:00

The last sentence of Diesel Dave’s caption mirrors my thoughts precisely, and I am three years even further down “Cynical Avenue” and proud of it !!

Chris Youhill

16/09/14 – 07:57

Sadly, Chris, I am but a babe in arms – but a cynical nearly 62 year old!

David Oldfield

16/09/14 – 07:58

The Harrington Grenadier was the last coach body with a curved window line, a peculiarly British trend which began in the 1930s. There were plans for it to be replaced by a development of the Legionnaire if Harrington had stayed in business.

Peter Williamson

16/09/14 – 07:58

As Andrew says the parallel lift mechanism was indeed a Harrington patent and some coaches I drove had a plate stating that fact. Regarding the side locker doors in a larger photo they are of the parallel lift type, I think they look as if they are hinged is because they were in the locked position which was achieved by lifting as normal and then pulling the top of the panel outward presumably to prevent accidents to fitters working underneath. Similar mechanisms can be seen on modern, but foreign, coaches although electrically powered.

Diesel Dave

Black and White – AEC Reliance – AAD 249B – A249

AAD 249B

Black & White Motorways
1964
AEC Reliance 2MU4RA
Harrington Grenadier C41F

This batch of five coaches seems to be rarely photographed despite their superb appearance enhanced once again by a beautifully simple livery on the most elegant of bodies.
Delivered in May 1964 they were AEC Reliance 2MU4RA chassis with Harrington Grenadier C41F coachwork, fleet No’s were A247-A251, the photo was taken on Marine Parade Eastbourne probably in the summer of 1965.
My impression was that Black and White operated very few extended tours or other excursion work instead concentrating on their extensive express service network, perhaps someone can confirm or contradict me on that point.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave

29/06/16 – 16:14

I am not sure about extended tours but I think that Black and White did have a day excursion programme- how big the catchment area was I do not know.
Given the peak requirements on Summer Saturdays, a source of midweek revenue was desirable.
The only company I can think of with an express commitment pattern like Black and White (Yelloway) did have a substantial day excursion traffic with a huge catchment area.

Malcolm Hirst

11/07/16 – 07:30

Black and White did handle quite a lot of excursion work as Malcolm states. Sometimes the official definition of ‘Excursions and Tours’ as used by the Traffic Commissioners etc was over embracing in many cases as operators may have run excursions but may not have run extended tours.
In Kevin Lane’s book ‘Glory Days – Black and White’ there is the odd reference to ‘tour’ work (in the context of ‘not excursion’ work like these passages:
In addition to its work for Associated Motorways, Black & White was very active in the field of tours and excursions, which is how it all started out.
An eight day luxury tour was also offered to North Wales and Snowdonia.
‘he best – usually the newest – vehicles were used for tour work, which required the hiring of vehicles from other operators to fulfil Associated Motorways commitments. A pool of drivers employed on tour work was established based on seniority – a highly prized position.
There are numerous references to ‘tours’ to the Cotswolds, Forest of Dean etc which I think were references to day excursions but that is just my interpretation.

David Slater

Neath & Cardiff – AEC Reliance – WWN 191 – 56

WWN 191

Neath & Cardiff Luxury Coaches Ltd
1960
AEC Reliance 2MU3RA
Harrington C41F

Neath & Cardiff coaches were affectionately known as ‘Brown Bombers’ and they certainly made short work of demolishing the miles along the M4. This AEC Reliance (2MU3RA083) carries a handsome Harrington C41F body (2309) and was new to Neath & Cardiff in 1960.
I am not sure if this striking (for me) livery would eventually give way to the uninspiring NBC livery. After eventual withdrawal by the NBC she still had a varied career until being brought back to the Swansea Bus Museum, on whose 2016 Running Day in original Neath & Cardiff livery we see her.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

16/09/16 – 17:13

N&C were taken over by South Wales before the corporate identity was introduced.

Stephen Allcroft

06/10/17 – 07:43

Used to love seeing these at Cardiff Bus Station (RIP) in the sixties. But surely they weren’t doing many miles on the M4 when first delivered?

Gerry

20/01/18 – 06:07

In the days when N&C were operational, the M4 motorway terminated at Tredegar Park at the western edge of Newport. The only motorway west of there was the elevated section of the M48 at Port Talbot. I don’t recall N&C operating along this elevated section. By the time that the motorway network expanded into Wales, N&C operations had been subsumed into those of South Wales Transport and Western Welsh

Frank Potter

12/05/20 – 07:04

My Dad drove the N and C buses when they were owned by Sir Godfrey Llewelyn until they were nationalised and absorbed in to Western Welsh. They were affectionally known then as the ‘Chocolate’ buses. This was in the end of war mid 1940’s

Tom C

Maidstone & District – AEC Reliance – 251 BKM – SO251

Maidstone & District - AEC Reliance - 251 BKM - SO251

Maidstone & District
1958
AEC Reliance 2MU3RV
Harrington B42F

By the mid 1950s, bus patronage was beginning to show signs of serious decline, and the Traffic Commissioners were empowered to grant dispensation for the use of buses with more than the traditional 20/26/30 seats on (what was then called) OMO operation. The first large saloons bought by Maidstone & District specifically for OMO were eleven Harrington Contenders of 1955 powered by the distinctive TS3 two stroke engine. Then, having gained experience with the all conquering AEC Reliance on coach duties, this chassis became the firm M&D choice from 1957 for OMO saloon work. Initially, the selected bodywork supplier was Weymann, then Beadle, before Harrington was chosen to build the bodies on a batch of twenty five in 1958. Here is 251 BKM, SO251 in the M&D fleet, seen in July 1973 after disposal to the dealer, Trevor Wilcox Brown, the proprietor of Tillingbourne Bus Company. This Reliance, a 2MU3RV model fitted with a Harrington B42F body, was never operated by Tillingbourne, but was quickly sold on to another dealer in Middlewich. I undertook the delivery run from Gomshall to Middlewich, and was impressed by the alacrity with which the machine tackled the hills around Amersham – I always skirted round to the west of the Great Wen – though the top speed was understandably rather modest on the motorway. The picture shows the bus somewhere around the Chipperfield area in Hertfordshire (if my high mileage memory is still functioning). En route on the motorway, I was somewhat disconcerted to find that the accelerator ceased to return to shut down the engine speed, so I pulled in at the next service area and investigated. By lifting up the inspection flaps in the floor, I established that the return action was provided by a simple coil spring linking the throttle rod to a lug on the chassis. The locating loop on one end of this spring had just snapped off, mercifully leaving the remaining part hanging down. I scoured the ground around the lorry park to see what I could find to effect a rudimentary repair and was rewarded by the discovery of a length of rigid but pliable wire. This I managed to force between the last two coils of the broken end of the spring, bent it round to secure it, and then made a loop with the other end before fatiguing off the surplus length (all done with the fingers – I had no tools with me). That bit of Heath Robinson engineering got me safely and uneventfully on to my Middlewich destination.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

17/10/16 – 07:26

Smart, purposeful looking bus.
Perhaps the Middlewich dealer sold it on to an unsuspecting operator, who may have run it with your rudimentary bit of wire doing its job, for many years, Roger!

Peter Murnaghan

17/10/16 – 09:10

255 BKM

A member of this batch, 255 BKM, was sold to Clynnog and Trefor Motoer Services in North Wales, where it lasted for many years.

Don McKeown

18/10/16 – 08:00

253 BKM was saved for preservation in 2008 after festering in Somerset for many years.
Now safely stored inside “somewhere in Sussex” pending restoration.

Malcolm Boyland

Reference vehicle S2 this was delivered to Tonbridge depot along with S3-4 and 5, All four from new as we already had S1 also from new. I think that it was probably because the M&D were using the idea of new buses would encourage us drivers to accept larger vehicles on one man operation. They were right because we were also the first depot in the fleet to accept the use of double deckers on o.m.o. work.
If my memory serves me correctly these were Bristols.
I was a driver at Tonbridge from 1961 until the closure of the depot. then transferred to Borough Green and then Tunbridge Wells until the mid nineties when I had to retire due to ill health.

Mick Green

Bevan Bros – AEC Regal III – KDD 38

Bevan Bros -_AEC Regal III - KDD 38
Bevan Bros -_AEC Regal III - KDD 38

Bevan Brothers of Soudley
1950
AEC Regal III 9621A
Harrington FC33F

Bevan Brothers of Soudley (also known as Soudley Valley Coaches) seem to have had an interesting fleet. KDD 38 is an AEC Regal III of the 9621A variety and it has Harrington FC33F body, complete with the famous dorsal fin. The first view shows it is passing Hound Church on its way to the Netley rally on 10 July 1988. In the second view, it in the Southsea rally on 8 June 1986.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

Frank Osborne

I am sure that this is one of the buses used by Bevans bus company for the school runs to Lydney boys and girls secondary schools. Pupils picked up from the districts of Sedbury Beachley Tutshill and so on. I was picked up in Netherend by the shop opposite our house on the corner. Another of the Bevans fleet I am pretty sure was a Leyland Comet. This would have been the 1960`s when I was at school.
Happy days!

Frank Osborne

Margo’s of Thornton Heath – AEC Regal I – CPK 168

Margo's of Thornton Heath - AEC Regal - CPK 168

Margo’s of Thornton Heath
1937
AEC Regal I
Harrington  C33F

This picture, taken in 1960 or 1961, shows an AEC Regal of either late pre-war or early post-war vintage – the mechanical specification was virtually identical – with a straight stepped waistrail body of unknown (to me) manufacture. I would suspect that the chassis is of the usual 7.7/crash gearbox variety, but the front wing treatment is not of standard AEC pattern of the period. The number CPK 168 is a Surrey registration, and, when photographed, the coach was being operated by the once well known (certainly to the Traffic Commissioners!) firm of Margo’s of Thornton Heath, in whose Zion Place premises it is seen. Can our Forum experts supply more information?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

29/08/11 – 08:00

Gut reaction – a pre war Harrington. Those odd flat plates in front of the wings I suspect is an operator addition.

David Oldfield

Margo closeup

29/08/11 – 08:01

An observation… do you notice how the lack of a canopy gives you nowhere to put the wing mirror- it is, I imagine, that tiny thing on the wing…

Joe

29/08/11 – 08:02

The bodywork I am certain is by Harrington. It bears a very strong resemblance to some supplied to North Western on Leyland Tigers in the 1934-1937 period. Some of these were rebodied by Windover in 1950 and now I’m wondering if any of the original bodies were sold on for further use. Pure speculation of course, I don’t even know if this vehicle has its original body or not but although the mouldings are slightly different at the rear from the North Western ones, it is a faint possibility. The front wing treatment is obviously nothing to do with AEC, but an attempt to give a more up to date look, in fact, if the vertical part wasn’t so deep, it could almost be mistaken for a Regal III!

Chris Barker

29/08/11 – 11:07

Having had relations in nearby Streatham I have many vivid memories of seeing the Margo’s fleet in early postwar years – I have to say that the little quip about them being well known “to the Traffic Commissioners” comes as no surprise if casual observations are anything to go by !!
By the way Joe, I know it takes some believing but nearside mirrors were not legally necessary until a date which just escapes me, but well after WW2. I just can’t imagine how anyone managed to avoid a “crushing” nearside accident for even an hour let alone day after day, and I certainly wouldn’t have liked it.

Chris Youhill

29/08/11 – 16:07

Certainly in later years, Surrey Motors of Sutton were a consistent AEC/Harrington operator. Could it have originated with them?

Mike Grant

29/08/11 – 16:09

Chris- when you consider that there were then probably more bikes on the road, you had little way of telling who was coming up the inside- and on this photo but not pre mid fifties, no trafficator either. Your jacket may have had a white patch on the right arm for you to stick your arm out of the little window whilst getting 7 tons+ on to unassisted full lock…. but telling people on your nearside that you were turning left…? Perhaps that’s what conductors were for…?!

Joe

I do concur with the view that this is a Harrington body – the cab design in particular does have the look of that coachbuilder. I went to school in neighbouring Selhurst, and I often saw the Margo fleet, including this Regal, round and about in the area. Later, I used to pop round to the Margo yard to see what they had acquired, and it was on such a trip that I luckily managed to get this photo. Often the gates would be shut and barred, probably to keep the Traffic Commissioner’s inspectors out as much as the general public. The transport press back in the 1960s and 70s regularly gave hilarious accounts of the skirmishes between Margo and the authorities. The excuses for the absence of drivers’ hours and fleet maintenance records always fell into the “dog ate my homework” category. Later, Margo rebranded as International Coach Lines, and bought a number of the early Bristol VRL double deck coaches.
Chris’s point about nearside wing mirrors is correct. Even when they became obligatory some buses, including, surprisingly, those of London Transport, had miniscule postage stamp sized efforts on the nearside.

Roger Cox

30/08/11 – 08:07

That was a good idea about Surrey Motors: yes, it was their no 15, new in August 1937 and sold in May 1955 and it was indeed a Harrington body.

Michael Wadman

30/08/11 – 19:21

Many thanks for that information, Michael. I often saw the smart AEC Regals of Surrey Motors in their primrose/brown livery during my schooldays in the Croydon area, and I did wonder if CPK 168 originated with them, but couldn’t find out much about the fleet history. I am surprised that this coach dated from as long ago as 1937, and it is a tribute to the quality of AECs and Harringtons of that period that it was still around in the early 1960s. In fact, given the standard of mechanical care meted out by Margo, its survival was little short of miraculous.
Sadly, the Surrey Motors concern was taken over by Epsom Coaches (H. R. Richmond) in 1980. Tempora mutantur.

Roger Cox

01/09/11 – 07:42

Strictly speaking, Epsom Coaches only acquired the licences of Surrey Motors, not the business itself. Surrey Motors Limited also owned property and this became the primary concern after 1980. The original company (incorporated Feb 17th 1919) still exists as a subsidiary of the Stock Exchange quoted property company Panther Securities PLC but the only (and very tenuous) connection nowadays with the PSV world is that one of the shareholders in Panther also has shares in a number of bus companies.

Nigel Turner

Re Surrey Motors. I see two of their preserved vehicles every year at the Goodwood (Motor) Circuit Revival Meeting. Pictures are here at this link. I’m certain that you know these coaches well but they will remind readers of the livery. Both are in splendid condition.

Richard Leaman

06/09/11 – 07:28

Michael has dated the coach CPK 168 to 1937, but my records for it show it in fact to have been 2 years older, so new in 1935.
It was one of four such coaches delivered to Surrey Motors that year, with fleet numbers 13-16, and registered CPH 624/5 and CPK 168/9. Dates I have are 5/35 for the CPH pair, 7/35 for the CPK ones, and these are shown as such in the list of pre-war AEC Regal chassis published in 2010 by the PSV Circle (publication C1131). The earlier dates also match with Surrey registration issues – during 1937 they had gone on to issue all the F multiples (FPA to FPL) and moved on as far as GPC.
The Margo story is quite a complex one and starts with the activities of Nathan and Rose Margo who by 1920 had founded the business that was later to become Bexleyheath Transport. Several other members of the family ran other businesses later – I have some notes on the subject which I will look out and provide a summary during the next few days.

Derek Jones

28/10/11 – 14:40

Margos acquired the vehicle from Simpson of Penge in November 1960 who purchased it from Surrey Motors in May 1955. I believe it was finally withdrawn and scrapped in December 1961

Graham Wright

29/10/11 – 12:26

Was it not Margos who ordered a large batch of Bristol LH/Plaxton coaches and then cancelled them when they were built? I drove DWT 641H at Stanley Gath Coaches of Dewsbury and I recall that Moxons at Oldcoates had DWT 643H.

Philip Carlton

30/10/11 – 14:51

It may also be of interest that in February 1948 Surrey Motors sent CPK 168 to Watson & sons, Lowestoft for a complete body overhaul also adding one seat to become C33F.
Further refurbishment was carried out by Harringtons in 1951.
The vehicle was converted to diesel (probably 7.7 litre) by AEC in 1953. Articles about Surrey Motors of Sutton can be found in Buses Extra Nos 2 & 22 if that helps.

Graham Wright

02/11/11 – 16:10

The Margo story is worthy of a book on it’s own. I worked for Atlas Coaches of Edgware run by Michael Margo and his cousin Tony Plaskow. Michael was Cyril’s son who I believe was really called Isadore. Isadore and Gerald were the executors to Nathan’s will when he died in 1959. Louis (Lou) Margo owned Margos of Streatham, later renamed International Coachlines. He was assisted by his sons Nigel and Dudley. Bernard and Gerald Margo ran Bexleyheath Transport and I understand that Sally Margo operated as Paynes of Croydon. I am still in contact with Ronnie Dalton who still operates from the Nursery Road premises as International Coaches and worked for the Margo family for many years. There was also Malcolm Margo, these days known as Malcolm Morris with transport interests in the Channel Islands and another brother who I cannot recall who briefly worked as Transport Manager for Kirby’s of Bushey Heath in the 1970’s.

Chris Sullivan

10/01/12 – 07:27

It was Alan Margo who worked for Kirbys. Bernard is his brother and their father was Charlie Margo who owned Margos of Penge. Alan and Bernard ran that company with their dad and later became known as Europa Coaches of Penge

Ronnie Dalton

04/07/12 – 05:21

Margos of Thorton Heath? that brings back old memories like when I was driving out of Merton for London Transport during a 60,s overtime ban a few of us went to Margo,s at Thorton Heath with the intention of recouping some of our lost earnings (from OT). My mates made a B line for the AEC Regents (preselect versions) I was too slow and got left with an ex Eastern Counties high bridge Bristol K to operate a school shuttle to swimming baths in Chelsea. I made my way there via Streatham and I shall never forget the cheering and clapping from the crews and inspectors outside A K garage as I made a pigs ear of the gear changes, thank God I mastered it by the time I got to Chelsea.

Depot

15/07/12 – 17:17

Apart from Margo’s I remember (rather have dragged up memories from my schooldays over 60 years ago, 1948) Timpsons, Bourne & Balmer (Taken over by Timpsons) and much more ephemeral, Omnia coaches of Holmesdale Road Bromley. (grey matter now in gear), in particular not in own dark green were 2 ex LT (LTL) single deckers (Scooters) still in red with no signwriting petrol (still) used on schools work GO xxxx series from 1929-31. Can find little info on the latter company and even less photos (nil). I think (only think) they were taken over by Metrobus of Orpington.

Steve Oxbrow

06/10/12 – 07:36

This vehicle was used in the mid 1930s to show a device that if fitted to the front wheels would stop a person been crushed.
A few still images from a short film of the time can be seen at this link

Philip Howard

07/10/12 – 08:29

Thanks, Philip, and thanks also to Chris H who has put a link on Flikr to this site. Interestingly, the picture shows the Regal with its original Harrington front wing arrangement.

Roger Cox

11/12/12 – 10:01

Re comment 2/11/11 Paynes Coaches was owned and operated by Jack Payne from 1 Kemble Road Croydon packing up in the early 70s, and next door to him at number 3 was Taffy Thomas who ran just the one coach, the last being a Ford Plaxton 52 seater which he sold in November 1975.

Michael W

29/01/13 – 18:01

Margos provided a school coach from Mackenzie Road in Beckenham (just down the hill from their base) to Bromley Technical High School near Keston. I used it from 1960 to 1965 at 12/6d per term. My Mum would make me eat porridge in the mornings and what with being bounced around on the journey and the smell of the pig farm alongside the school, made for some interesting mornings!
The driver was a Mr Farminer who would make sure we all sat in our allotted seats. On occasions a smaller coach would arrive and there would be a bun fight for the fewer seats. Inevitably there would be 3 of us on a double seat and 6 across the back. The best bit was sucking Jubbly’s on the way home in the summer!!

Terry Hammond

24/02/13 – 08:21

My Father and Mother started the business known as Margo’s Coaches Streatham soon after their marriage in 1945, shortly after they purchased some land in Thornton Heath to garage the coaches. The main stay of the business was Workmen contracts School runs and Private hire. I joined the business straight after leaving school at the age of 14 when we expanded the business providing coaches for the incoming tourist trade, working with companies like Thomas Cook, Globus Gateway and Miki Travel.
During the period that I was managing director we had a number of related subsidiaries:
South London Bus Company
Trans World Coaches ltd
Margo’s Luxury Coaches Streatham Ltd
International Coach Lines Ltd
Trans World Coaches Ltd was sold to Trafalgar Tours International in 1981 at which time I severed all my connection with the business.

No name given

30/09/13 – 08:00

I met Malcolm Margo in 1990 where he replied to one of my advertisements. Here began a long friendship. From memory his brother Michael was the only member of the family operating coaches out of South London. Malcolm and his cousins by then had pulled out of operating coaches. By contrast Malcolm took more interest in buying, selling, swapping coaches, cars, trucks sometimes under hilarious circumstances. In later years he enjoyed Guernsey where he carried on trading. Unforgettable character.

Anon

20/03/15 – 09:21

Malcolm Margo/Morris legend lives on in West Africa. Bus operation, Trucking, Taxis, petrol stations.
One of his apprentices. Readers you would never understand and I don’t want you too! A good man that taught me a lot. Never understood! Margo coaches in West Africa
Not quite under a different guise….Anon too much history.

John

07/08/18 – 06:16

I am surprised there is no mention of Margo’s Coaches located next to Brentford railway station. They were certainly there from 1966 to 1972.
Their coaches four front wheels (singles) and the usual twins at the rear.
The coach colour was an attractive redish brown.
One of the Margo family was with me on National Service in the RAF in 1954 – 1956.

Colin Hodgson

08/08/18 – 06:03

Colin those would be Bedford VAls like this one which had been moved on, when photographed, to Blaydonian. //www.sct61.org.uk/zzvyt430g

John Lomas

28/05/20 – 07:18

When I was a lad of around 14 I worked at the Thornton Heath yard cleaning busses for the grand sum of one pound a week! If I remember they had the old Summer Holliday RT. Which eventually was sold without the front of its roof. This was removed to replace another that had low bridge damage. I was given by one of the mechanics, the AEC badge from its gearbox. Now, if the company is still running, you still owe me around four weeks wages!

Roger Josling

29/05/20 – 06:49

You’re right, Roger. They had RT316 from November 1963 to March 1966, when it went for scrap. They also had RT320 for much the same period. However, RT400 lasted from 1963 until 1969.

Chris Hebbron

24/01/21 – 06:30

I remember at least 2 of the RTs that were in Summer Holiday. It was painted grey I think and the other was red as in the film. The RTs in the film were RT2305, RT2366 and RT4326.

Dave Jell

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

18/08/21 – 06:02

I recently learnt of Ronnie Dalton passing. Probably a year or so out of date. A coach operator legend with pedigree. The Thornton Heath Depot a much smaller place without him. Steven has no doubt taken charge.

Mr Anon

Provincial – AEC Regal 4 – CG 9607 – 24

Copyright David Whitaker

Provincial (Gosport & Fareham Omnibus Co)
1934
AEC Regal 4
Harrington B32R

I well remember these Regals from my childhood in the Gosport area between 1949 and 1952. The very first Regal 4 – the Arabic numeral denoted the installation of a four cylinder engine – was converted in June 1930 from a stock Regal chassis simply by replacing the 7.4 litre six cylinder petrol engine with the four cylinder 5.1 litre petrol used in the Monarch and Mercury goods ranges. However, sales of the new model were very modest in comparison with the main competing four cylinder offerings, the Leyland Lion and Dennis Lancet. In March 1933 an oil engine option became available for the Regal 4, initially of 5.35 litres capacity but soon increased to 6.6 litres, which enhanced the market appeal of the model. Provincial took an interest and ordered eight, CG 9606-9613, numbered (rather illogically, though this might have reflected the 1934 delivery dates) as 23/24/29/30/25/26/27/28, with Harrington B32R bodywork. These Regals went on to acquire a legendary reputation in enthusiast circles. In 1945/46 the four cylinder engines in these buses were replaced by 7.7 litre six cylinder units. Between 1953 and 1955 four of the batch were rebuilt to forward entrance format and then, in the years from 1957 to 1962, all eight received new Reading bodies, varying in capacity from FB33F to FB35F.

The final two rebuilds, CG 9607 and 9612 had bodies partially constructed by Provincial and completed by Reading. At the end of 1966 the redoubtable manager, Mr H Orme White, who had begun his Provincial career at the Great Grimsby Street Tramways Company, retired at the age of 81 after 30 years at Gosport, and the inexorable decline of the Gosport & Fareham business then began. Under the new manager, withdrawals of the Regals took place between 1966 and 1970, Provincial Traction having been sold off in the interim period to the Wiles Group, later renamed the Swain Group, part of the Hanson Trust, in 1969. The title picture above was given to me in 2006 by David Whitaker, the owner of the also illustrated 1961 rebuilt survivor, CG 9607, and it shows Nos 25/24/23, CG 9610/9607/9606, possibly not long after delivery in 1934. I did initially wonder if the photograph had been taken at Hoeford, but the unidentified double decker in the background is not a Provincial vehicle, though it certainly appears to be contemporary with the second half of the 1930s. More information about these Regals may be found at this link.
Click on the arrow near the bottom of the page and then select “Provincial AEC Regals” from the list that appears.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

13/12/20 – 07:16

I remember these very well, especially in the original form. I used them rarely as we used the double deck 1 and 3 services. At the age of ten, I accompanied my family to Malta for three years, and on return found the rebodied examples running around. I am not sure how extensive the rebuild was, as clearly the front had changed and so had the windows and seats, but the windows were very narrow for the late 1950s, and the rear ends seemed unchanged.

David Wragg