Tag: Leeds City Transport

Leeds City Transport – Leyland Titan PD2/1 – NNW 379 – 379


Copyright Chris Hough

Leeds City Transport
1950
Leyland Titan PD2/1
Leyland H30/26R

This batch of sixty Leyland bodied Leyland Titans were delivered to Leeds in 1949-1950. Most of the batch were allocated to the Bramley depot for most of their careers providing most of the duties on the 54, 77 and 23 services as well as the Bramley contribution to the 11, 15 and 16 services. All were withdrawn in the late sixties. They along with the 1949-1950 AEC Regent IIIs were the last Leeds City Transport buses to carry via blinds as standard retaining them to the end of their careers. One 356 NNW 356 later ran for Saltburn Motor Services at Saltburn-by-the-Sea near Redcar. Seen here is 379 NNW 379 parked in the depot yard at the old Bramley depot which was originally a tram depot converting to buses in the early fifties.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hough

01/06/12 – 07:16

Great to see this view, Chris. Fond memories, as this was my “home” depot and these PD2s were the workhorses on my local 23, 54, 65 and 77 routes. Even when my family moved to Moortown in the early sixties, two of them followed me (377/378?) to operate Torre Road depot services to Moortown and Primley Park (69/70). Small point but, Bramley depot converted from trams in 1949. In those earlier days of “common sense” the friendly depot staff used to allow us lads to wander round the depot collecting numbers, even letting us sit in one of the PD1 cabs so we could pretend to drive it. The most dodgy thing we ever got up to was the occasional destination “twiddle” to try to show obsolete destinations like Guiseley.

Paul Haywood

01/06/12 – 07:17

These are the true “Farringtons” – the final, and definitive Leyland bodywork of 1951 – 1954 not strictly being so. Sheffield and Manchester had substantial numbers of Farringtons as well. They were only built on PD2/1 chassis and are distinctive with their separate sliders. [The ultimate “not Farringtons” were mostly PD2/12 and had ventilator sliders integrated into the window pans.]

David Oldfield

01/06/12 – 12:02

Thanks for the compliment Paul. As a lad I was also allowed in the depot often accompanying my dad when he went for his wages as he was a guard for LCT. To see the bus washer in action was the highlight of any visit! The two exits were both odd. The original tram exit was angled and narrow not a problem with a tram but a bus could easily suffer damage if the driver approached at the wrong angle. The “back door” was I think put in when the buses took over and had a steep ramp to ground level as the depot was on a hill The ramp wall is visible in the photo.

Chris Hough

02/06/12 – 07:15

Manchester’s Farringtons were on PD2/3 chassis. I’m pretty sure Southport’s were too. The same sliding window design then turned up with Duple, following the migration of an engineer from Leyland.

Peter Williamson

02/06/12 – 11:55

Leeds may have had the only PD2/1s with this style of body as they only bought 7ft 6ins wide buses apart from one batch of 8ft AECs until the advent of thirty foot long chassis. This was due to limited clearance between platforms in the bus station.

Chris Hough

07/06/12 – 10:34

Number 380 was transferred into the Driver training fleet after normal withdrawal, and I was given my job after taking my LCT application test in it one busy teatime in October 1969. It behaved like a dream and the true gentleman in charge of the School, Senior Inspector Albert Bradley, allowed me a few extra miles on top of the normal test route when I told him how much I was enjoying it – so instead of turning towards Town at the end of Old Lane we went up the Ring Road, through Middleton, and down Belle Isle Road. My only real criticism of these vehicles was the incessant rattling of the sliding windows which was really annoying to passengers. Also I’m sorry to say that many of the drivers NEVER used first gear – the bottom stop in Eastgate was the worst place, and some would nearly burn out the clutch when pulling away with a heavy load – the rattling windows had their own extra special “concerto” at this location !!

Chris Youhill

08/06/12 – 17:26

Back in 1949 whilst working on a neon sign for a well known Leeds grocery chain in York Road directly opposite Torre Road garage,(Long before the present road system was built including the M1 & M62) I witnessed the whole of this fleet in convoy heading towards the city centre…I have often wondered why, assuming these vehicles were Lancashire built, why were they entering the city from an easterly direction and not from the west. I assume that they would have had to take whatever route avoiding low bridges on their journey to Leeds. Also why did they by pass the main LCT garage? I would have thought this is where all new vehicles were vetted before being allocated to their respected depots….As a passenger I did travel regularly on these vehicles, and were super when flying up Burley Hill,and the internal body work was comparable to those “attractive” Roe bodies of the same era.
Interestingly though, two years later I was sent to Leyland’s Farington Foundry to sort out some electrical problem, and more concerned with the task in hand I didn’t show much interest of the activities that went on in this huge complex….but that’s another story.

Ken Greaves

Ken I can’t throw any light on the buses travelling from the east into Leeds. But I would hazard a guess that they were heading to the bus works on Donnisthorpe Street for checking prior to entering service. The wheel has now turned full circle in Leeds as Donnisthorpe Street in Hunslet is now the site of the First West Yorkshire head office The former had office in Swinegate is now a Malmaison hotel.

Chris Hough

09/06/12 – 07:55

Great memories there Ken, and I may have been “on board” at the same time as you on many occasions as I lived at the top of Burley Hill in the early “70s.” The PD2s were very spritely indeed, especially in the hands of drivers who correctly changed down into third, and occasionally second if heavily laden, with maximum engine revs so as not to lose momentum. Passengers in the habit of “baling out” at speed had to be very skilled and careful in those days if they were to avoid coming a cropper. In later half cab times, when I was driving the little AEC Mark V Regents on the same route but service 50 folks could step off easily half way up the hill as the anaemic asthmatic little blighters (the buses not the clients) were so gutless that Burley Hill had them licked. Coming the other way one morning peak up Kirkstall Hill towards the Merry Monk number 908 (1908 NW) – one of the final 8 foot wide batch – gave up the struggle and ground to a halt on the worst bend. This embarrassing predicament was partially explained by the inability of the conductress to manage even basic arithmetic – 60 plus 8 – the clients were standing almost everywhere apart from the roof, and there may have been one or two up there even but they will have slipped off due to the lack of hand grips !!

Chris Youhill

10/06/12 – 17:04

Yes Chris this part of York Road was more conducive to seeing Roe built vehicles travelling on it, after all the Roe factory was only just a couple of miles up the road at Crossgates. I wondered if this batch had been built at some other plant within the Leyland network but outside of Lancashire, or maybe held in some holding centre so delivery of the whole fleet could be made in bulk….We will probably never know.
During my five day stint at Farrington foundry, the official we (my apprentice and me) were to contact, was more insistent on giving us the grand tour of the place rather than giving us the lowdown on our reasons for being there…..However Farrington was not just another foundry, it assembled trucks and wagons of all shapes and sizes, including bus and trolley bus chassis. The trolley bus workshops were behind two large doors which were big enough to admit large vehicles such as a double decker bus unfortunately the doors were locked so we were unable to go in….The tour of the place finished at about three in the afternoon after which I was then taken to see the job I had come to do. I would have been over the moon if the grand tour had occurred after I had completed the job in hand instead of before…
Nevertheless it was grand experience for a 22year old…..But if trolleys buses were made at Farrington then coach building was done too! So could it be that the so called “Farrington” bus was so called for no other reason than it was made at Farrington as opposed to being made at some other plant within the Leyland framework, whatever design reference it might be.

Ken Greaves

11/06/12 – 08:37

Fascinating puzzle, Ken, regarding their eastern approach to Torre Road in 1949. Could the explanation be something as simple as them using the west/north Ring Road to avoid the congested Leeds city centre?
In 1949 I presume the route from Leyland would have been Blackburn, Burnley, Todmorden, Halifax and then possibly round the south of Bradford via Odsal and Stanningley (the Hebble route), or along the A58 to Wortley (on the YWD route). In this way, they could have then used (much of) the existing A6120 Ring Road around the west and north of the city as far as Seacroft, then eastward into Leeds along York Road to Torre Road. Pure speculation, of course, but assuming they were being driven by Leyland trade-plate drivers, perhaps the extra mileage was justified to avoid them being stuck in the centre of a strange city (full of trams, of course).

Paul Haywood

11/06/12 – 08:38

Chris Youhill, my in laws lived on the Sandford Estate and I lived at Hawksworth round the circus no doubt you will be very familiar with the No 50/51 route. Whilst I personally have no connections with the bus industry only as a passenger, I knew several people that did work on the buses. My brother was a conductor at Headingley during the sixties and seventies and two schoolmates who started as parcel boys worked their up to bus drivers George Kennedy was an upholsterer for LCT and George Brogden the keenest inspector of all, he was one of the drivers who drove the Leeds buses down to London during the war….. I also have lived in Little London (born there) Harehills, and Pontefract and back to Little London and now in the Carr Manors and are familiar with both trams and buses that operated in that particular area. I loved your tale of conking out on Kirkstall Hill god knows how many times this has happened whilst I have been a passenger on the number 50 bus, it always happened when an enthusiastic driver tries to change up a gear after crossing over Kirkstall Lane and then tries to engage first gear after the vehicle has ground to a halt. The thrill of this journey was the descent of Burley Hill after getting started again, to make up for lost time the driver would speed up (providing George Brogden the inspector wasn’t about) and one would wonder whether the brakes would hold or not, or would the bus topple over, it was certainly exciting….Most days the 50 bus and the 77 bus ran together and usually it became a race to see which bus reached the top or bottom of Burley Hill first. depending of course which direction the buses were travelling.

Ken Greaves

13/06/12 – 09:51

Ken, you paint a most evocative and accurate picture of the Leeds bus scene of fifty years ago. !! I may well have worked with your brother as I too was at Headingley from 1969 to 1986.
My own initiation into the 50 service has me blushing still – it was a Saturday afternoon in November 1969 and the bus was one of the aforementioned anaemic small Mark V Regents, and having persuaded it with difficulty while fully loaded to reach Hawksworth Circus I crossed the roundabout. I was pretty sure that the second right turn should then be taken, until I entered a narrow street where several worthies were washing their cars – foamy water and sponges flew everywhere as they ran for cover – I should have taken the first right turn !!
For the work shy element at Headingley and Bramley depots Morris Lane and Leeds & Bradford Road provided ample views to see over the Abbey fields what eastbound progress the opposition were making – this was the reason for much deliberate “bunching” of vehicles on the 50/77 between Kirkstall and Leeds. The poor old 23 was largely unable to participate in this contest as it was a very fast busy twenty eight minute run with only two minutes at each terminus.
When I came to a halt with 908 that morning I had remained in first gear all the way up from the Kirkstall Lane junction but still couldn’t prevent the lamentable and notorious thing from giving up, the last straw of course being the conductress’s record breaking load !!
Away from all this Brand’s Hatch and Le Mans nonsense I spent my last fourteen years (1987 – 01) at the Pontefract depot of South Yorkshire Road Transport (and successors) so once again may well have encountered you there. My best friend lives also now in the Carr Manors so once again “What a small world” eh ??

Chris Youhill

13/06/12 – 16:52

Chris Youhill…I lived at Pontefract from 1950 to 1953 and travelled each day to Leeds from Willow Park trying to avoid West Riding services whenever I could. South Yorkshire service was superb in every way,prompt warm fast clean cheerful, it was an almost personal service that you got. Those single decker Albions could certainly move. What a delight to board the Strachan bodied double decker on the return journey at night and fall asleep with your feet on the heater and not wake up until you had arrived back in Pontefract, after working all day in the frozen wastes of Ireland Wood and Cookridge on the new council housing estates.

Ken Greaves

14/06/12 – 07:42

You are right Ken about the superb service provided by South Yorkshire (Motors Ltd in that period). You may be surprised to hear that Albion/Roe double decker TWY 8 (which was still a single decker coach in 1950/3) is now in advanced preservation and appears at rallies. When I started work with the Firm in 1987 I was just astounded to find that the Atlantean, Fleetline and Olympian double deckers were fitted by the Company with water squirters on each driving mirror, allowing clear vision in the worst of weather on muddy roads.

Chris Youhill

14/06/12 – 07:45

Chris Y – I really think you should write a book of your experiences in the bus industry of yesteryear – all good stuff and generating a chuckle or two: maybe not for you at the time, however!

Chris Hebbron

14/06/2012 14:17:46

Couldn’t agree more with Chris H about Chris Y.

David Oldfield

14/06/12 – 14:18

Chris Hebbron…I totally agree, Chris Y should write a book, then we could all contribute something.

Ken Greaves

14/06/12 – 14:19

Chris Y- was there a video of TWY 8 here on Bus Sounds running up Dewsbury cutting on a running day presumably….?, but it was taken down from You-tube… anyone know where it is?
In the old mining areas ample water was essential on all glass, as you collected a film of grey/black greasy slurry off the roads. My first Morris Minor initially had no screenwasher- frightening. Good on them!

Joe

15/06/12 – 05:51

Thanks to Chris H, David and Ken for that literary vote of confidence – I should have written such a book years ago and would still love to do so, but am now very “senior” for that sort of venture.
Off to Norfolk now with two friends to sample the preserved railways – no doubt drenched if the forecasters are correct – but will catch up with everything on Monday hopefully.

Chris Youhill

15/06/12 – 12:19

How about someone getting you a digital recorder for you to speak your recollections into, Chris? That way you don’t have to tax the senior brain but just chat, as to a friend – rather as you do here in cyber-space.

David Oldfield

01/07/12 – 10:31

Just stumbled across the photo of the LCT PD2 379 at the old Bramley Town End Depot and spent the last 30 minutes enthralled by the comments of Chris Youhill et al. These NNW’s plus the XUM small Regent V’s with their well proportioned exposed radiator 7ft 6ins Roe bodies represented my very early introduction to the industry, a precursor to a life long career, thankfully still continuing over 45 years later !
Although born in Nottinghamshire, my Grandparents lived on Kirkstall Hill in Leeds and from an early age various weekends and school holidays would be spent sat at a bedroom window watching the 23’s, 50’s and 77’s travelling up and down the hill. Long before awareness of BBF Books (Yorkshire Municipal Edition) or Busses Illustrated I had worked out that regular performers on the 23/77’s were PD2’s 350-399 and the Regents 863-894 with allocation split between Bramley and Headingley Depots. Trips into Leeds with Grandma always offered a choice to/from Eastgate with the AEC’s winning the day (perhaps it was the struggle up Burley Hill with the throaty but underpowered 470). This would have been the period 1963-1968 when my family moved to Burley in Wharfedale but what memories! Even before that time, the old NNW’s were being replaced with newer versions (1953 built 301-310 and 1955 201-220 and even further XUM’s from the batch 840-862) so for me, the end of an era and happy childhood memories bus watching. I do remember that four of the NNW’s (394, 396, 397, 398) remained for sometime after the rest had disappeared, I believe to the end of 1968 and of course as mentioned by your other contributors 380 found itself on Driver Training Duties.
Move forward 30 years as Operations Manager at Bramley Garage (what coincidence!) and responsibility for those same Kirkstall Hill services, although the 23 long consigned to history, the 77 now the 49 to and from Bramley Garage but still the 50, the latter routes now operated by Olympian Royales. Plenty more memories, although on occasion the memory may play tricks and I thank you for helping jog them. I will be happy to share on line if of value.

Keith Roebuck

02/07/12 – 07:23

I’m sure we’d like to hear of your experiences in the industry, humorous or otherwise, Keith – they can always be posted under “Articles”

Chris Hebbron

07/07/15 – 06:33

I lived in Newcastle from 1961-66. During that time PD2 NNW 345 appeared regularly outside Newgate House, where I worked, running for a local operator.

Colin Milner

17/07/15 – 12:39

I can remember going to School by Leeds City Transport on routes 50.51&77 which went via Burley Hill Leeds and were operated by Leyland Buses with a Charles Roe body I think they were classed as PD1 and had a crash gearbox and always had to stop on the hill to select the appropriate lower gear. before moving to Leeds I lived at Yeadon and travelled on Samuel Ledgard buses which ran between Otley & Horsforth via Yeadon they were Bedfords with wooden plank seats and there registration numbers were JNW 347&348, I would like to see a photograph of one of these if.possible.

Howard Clayton

17/07/15 – 12:42

I’m afraid our expert on Samuel Ledgard has been taken poorly a couple of days ago, but he will be back with us shortly.

Peter

18/07/15 – 06:18

Colin M, the Newcastle operator of whom you speak was Armstrong of Westerhope. They ran a service from Newcastle to Stanfordham. The Newcastle terminus was outside what was the Co-op department store in Newgate Street. When T&W PTE were created, the route came under their control, and Armstongs, along with Galleys coaches became Armstrong Galley, the coaching division of T&W PTE

Ronnie Hoye

25/07/16 – 09:48

Seemingly forgotten in this talk of the Bramley vehicles is the operation of the PD2/1s on the 38 Moortown-Whitkirk from about the time of their entry into Leeds service throughout most of the 1950s. Where were these buses stationed? Torre Road presumably but does anyone know for sure?

David A. Young

25/07/16 – 15:11

No trouble David in confirming that the 38 route was operated by Torre Road depot – two buses were required to maintain the half hourly frequency, a round trip being one hour. Crew (later OPO) changes took place at the Melbourne roundabout, the staff using other bus services to and from.

Chris Youhill

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

17/01/17 – 15:15

Depends what period Howard Clayton (17/07/15 – 12:39) is talking about. I don’t ever remember PD1s doing the 77 route, certainly not during my time at Bramley garage (late ’58’to end of ’59) – the PD1s were always on the 46. The PD2s had a crash 1st gear and synchro on 2nd 3rd &4th. 1st would be engaged to pull away after stopping at the bus stop after turning right off Kirkstall Hill, where the 77 then joined the same route as 50/51 (Daimlers from Headingley Depot). Were these Daimlers Charles Roe war time utility bodies, I’m not sure?
On the opposite corner to the bus stop, in that small parade of shops, was a fish & chip shop owned by Albert Hardisty – his brother was Inspector Cyril Hardisty!, who twice caught me not wearing my hat – a hanging offence. Albert was my wife’s uncle- small world, eh?

Richard Watson

Leeds City Transport – Leeds Titan – UUA 207 – 207

Leeds City Transport - Leeds Titan - UUA 207 - 207

Leeds City Transport
1955
Leeds Titan PD2/11
Roe H33/25R

This looks like a typical view from Yorkshire but these Leeds City Transport buses are interloping in Lancashire. Taken around 1970 the two Leyland Titans are seen in Rochdale climbing up from Sudden on Manchester Road heading for the town centre. The occasion was the Trans Pennine Rally from Manchester to Harrogate. Leading is 207 (UUA 207) a PD2/11 from a batch which were reputed to be the first Titans with Pneumo-cyclic transmission. Following up is 260 (5260 NW) a later PD3/5 30-footer. Both have Roe bodies.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Philip Halstead

28/10/16 – 07:41

Philip, I can’t make out the registration of the PD3, but I’d have thought it would be 5280 NW, ex Leeds 280, which is preserved (currently by Ensign, I believe, but probably with the Mile Cross Transport Collection at the time of your photo), rather than 5260 NW, which I don’t think survived.

Trevor Leach

28/10/16 – 16:55

They may have been the first batch of Pneumocyclic Titans but the very first is Leyland bodied demonstrator NTF 9 still owned by Edward Docherty who bought it from the manufacturer for A1 service work around 1955.

Stephen Allcroft

29/10/16 – 06:16

Is the date on the photo correct? The parts of the cars that we can see look to be more 1990 than 1970.

David Hick

31/10/16 – 08:18

This post is from a print and I regret I kept no notes of when it was taken. On reflection the date is more likely late 1980’s. After enlarging the scan the PD3/5 does look the be 5260. Apologies for any confusion but relying on memory with age is a tricky business.

Philip Halstead

31/10/16 – 15:11

I wondered about the date as I remember UUA 207 being stored on Pocklington Airfield in the 1980s alongside another ex-Leeds Leyland which was being used as a mobile control room/mess room by the gliding club.

David Hick

Leeds City Transport – Daimler Fleetline – 101 LNW – 101

Leeds City Transport - Daimler Fleetline - 101 LNW - 101

Leeds City Transport (West Yorkshire PTE)
1964
Daimler Fleetline CRG6LX
Roe H41/29F

In June 1978 West Yorkshire PTE transferred five Fleetlines 101 – 105 from Leeds to Calderdale. 101 was a 1964 Commercial Vehicle Motor Show exhibit which was unique amongst the batch with a single piece curved windscreen and twin headlamps. It is shown here at Skircoat Moor in Halifax shortly before entering service there. One or two points to note, a relatively low seating capacity of 70 when 77 was more normal for this size and layout; note apparently no opening windows in the lower deck (can’t remember this). I do remember the heavy steering and abysmal demisters – this could also affect many other early Fleetlines. The transfer was in the interests of standardisation but this batch had the original “heavyweight” chassis whereas the Halifax buses had the later simplified rear sub frame hence different rear engine mountings – another problem area in early Fleetlines.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

14/01/16 – 16:30

The various early attempts made to ‘prettify’ the boxy shape of the Orion inspired body designs on the first generation Fleetlines and Atlanteans never seemed to come off. Here on this attempt by Roe the lower front panel and curved windscreen seem totally out of context to the remainder which is totally angular. Of the early rear-engined body designs only the Glasgow Alexander version seemed to be designed as a whole and didn’t look like a botch-up. The Bolton East Lancs Atlanteans were pretty good too where the body design seemed to be geared to suit the very attractive livery. It will certainly not be remembered as a high point in British bus bodywork design.

Philip Halstead

14/01/16 – 17:50

I remember 101 well, Ian. My work records show me as having driven it on three occasions at Halifax during 1979. The first was on the 5th January when my conductor Dave Maude and I had it for the first half of a split duty. It is recorded as having been booked off for “No Heaters, No Demisters, Heavy Steering and Slipping Flywheel”.
I well remember this occasion as we had struggled to operate a trip to Sowerby with a full standing load of school children for Ryburn Valley High School who unfortunately all insisted on breathing throughout the journey, misting then frosting up our windscreen, Dave having to constantly reach over with bits of paper towel in a vain attempt to provide visibility ahead. Then on the next trip around the 517 Queens Road Circular it became so cold inside that the windscreen froze over on both sides and any attempts to scrape off the ice were thwarted by it immediately freezing over again. We had to finally stop and abandon any hope of continuing the journey for quite a while until I think eventually we were causing such an obstruction that a sympathetic motorist lent us the remains of his de-icer spray and we were just about able to find our way back to Garage in a series of starts and stops.
We also had four more of the batch (102-105), but these had the more conventional flat fronts. They too – like all early Fleetlines – had very heavy steering, but the bodies seemed to be very solid and rattle-free in comparison with the ex-Halifax Northern Counties-bodied Fleetlines, which I thoroughly disliked.

John Stringer

15/01/16 – 06:28

Reading the comments above, I am surprised that no one thought of specifying heated windscreens. I seem to recall them on Hants & Dorset Bristol MWs in the early sixties, which certainly did not have to cope with the more severe weather found in Yorkshire.

David Wragg

15/01/16 – 06:30

101 was the Roe exhibit at the 1964 Earls Court show. Originally finished in traditional Leeds livery plus gold lining out. It was originally fitted with forced ventilation on both decks but following complaints from the public opening windows were fitted in the upper deck.
Like many of LCTs rear engined fleet 101 wore at least three liveries The original the later one man reversed livery and the Metro livery seen here.

On the subject of seating capacity Leeds had no thirty footers with more than 70 seats the largest 33ft deckers only seated 78 The first 30ft types with more than 70 seats were ordered and delivered to the PTE.

Chris Hough

15/01/16 – 14:44

It is not strictly true to say that the first 30ft deckers delivered to Leeds with more than 70 seats were ordered by the P.T.E.
Leylands 221-291, 5221-5291 NW, Daimlers 502-531, 7502-7531 UA and A.E.C.s 910-923, 3910-3923 UB delivered between 1958 and 1960 seated H39/32R when they entered service.
They were altered to H38/32R between August and October 1960 following a National Agreement on standing capacity which meant that buses with more than 70 seats were restricted to a maximum of 5 standing passengers whilst those with not more than 70 could carry 8 standing passengers.

John Kaye

15/01/16 – 17:06

David, the earliest buses I came across with heated windscreens were the final (1969) batch of Plaxton/Roadliners at PMT where we certainly had problems with heaters and demisters (tell me an undertaking that didn’t). You can’t believe the difficulties in getting hot water to flow round 60 feet of pipework.

Ian Wild

16/01/16 – 06:07

Ian. Thought on Roadliners screens were prone to jumping out which only makes demisters the preferred option

Roger Burdett

16/01/16 – 06:12

In that case, Ian, I must have made a mistake. Certainly the Marshall-bodied AEC Reliances of Aldershot & District had such screens around that time, but as regards the Hants & Dorset MWs, put that down to old age!
I can imagine the difficulties in getting heat around vehicles as they grew longer and engines moved from end to the other. More a case of needing a plumber than a mechanic.

David Wragg

16/01/16 – 06:12

Roe never seemed to quite get the “hang of” being able (or could be bothered?) to match-up the top and side profiles of curved windscreens with adjacent body-work, whether single or double-beck – the impression, to me, is of something just cut into bodywork designed for something else. I hope the near-side windscreen wiper was re-fitted before it entered service. And, John, a double-deck on the 517/8 – that was a bit optimistic as regards loadings wasn’t it? with a conductor you must have outnumbered the passenger.

Philip Rushworth

17/01/16 – 06:33

Yes Philip, if I remember rightly there were occasions when we carried nobody at all for the whole round trip, and if not then there were never more than two or three. The service by then was interworked with other routes and this particular AM trip just happened to slot in nicely to a crew operated double-deck working.
Commencing on 9th November,1925 this fairly short circular route served a densely populated area and in its heyday(as the 25 Inner Circle – same number both ways)had been operated by double deckers on a 20 minute (three peaks)or 30 minute (off-peak) frequency, and running throughout the evening. Renumbered 7 (clockwise) or 8 (anti-clocwise) on 24th October 1955 the timetable remained pretty much the same throughout the 1950’s and 60’s. On 29th September 1968 it was combined with the Beechwood Road route becoming cross-town routes 17/18) and converted to OMO single deck operation. The evening service was withdrawn on 27th May 1970. From 20th November 1972 the Beechwood Road section was incorporated into the 3 Hungerhill Estate service, so the 17/18 now reverted to just a Queens Road circular again. On 4th December 1972 it was diverted to also serve Richmond Road, by which time it ran hourly each way. Renumbered 517/518 by WYPTE it was reduced to just four trips per weekday from 12th January 1981, and was withdrawn altogether from 26th October 1986 when the newly created Yorkshire Rider diverted alternate Wainstalls journeys via Queens Road as route 524.

John Stringer

17/01/16 – 06:34

Notably the first C H Roe customer to ask for an Alexander type double curvature windscreen was the then General Manger at Great Yarmouth.
By the time this bus was transferred to Halifax the same man was Engineering Director of the PTE and prior to that he had been General Manager of Halifax and Todmorden.

This shot shows how Roe didn’t put a taper in the front end, unlike Alexander who did: www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/

Stephen Allcroft

17/01/16 – 12:22

That would be the late Geoffrey Hilditch then. A Bus Engineer through and through, the likes of which the Bus Industry will never see again.

Stephen Howarth

17/01/16 – 17:12

Lincoln also bought a batch of Atlanteans with this style of bodywork.

Chris Hough

28/09/20 – 05:33

Reading through all the comments its clear there are some very serious and knowledgeable people that know which brake pads go on which buses.
I am an enthusiast in my own way. I used to be a conductor for Leeds City Transport from 1967 to 1969. Mainly rear loaders (layman’s term) but during that time I remember OMO (one man operated) buses arriving which I was told had been on trial in Leicester I think. At the time these buses were absolute luxury and I remember going to various depots looking for overtime and being thrilled on the front loaders and being a conductor on them. Equally brilliant were the single decker’s which did the inner ring road route. I’m now approaching 70 and can tell anyone and everyone that even after spending 22 years in the Royal Navy and seeing most of the world, being a bus conductor was the proudest job I ever had.

Mike Booth

Leeds City Transport – Daimler Fleetline – UNW 174H – 174

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UNW 174H

Leeds City Transport
1969
Daimler Fleetline CRG6LXB
Roe H45/33D

Representative of the concurrent Leeds double deck orders in 1969/70 are these two buses photographed in Leeds in April 1970. On the left is Roe H45/33D bodied Daimler Fleetline CRG6LXB UNW 174H, No.174 delivered in September 1969. Standing alongside is similarly bodied Leyland Atlantean PDR2/1 UNW 404H, No.404 which arrived in January 1970. Though seemingly identical to the man on the Leeds, rather than the Clapham omnibus, I wonder how these two types compared in terms of road performance and mechanical reliability.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

01/12/21 – 07:22

Sheffield had similarly contemporaneous batches of vehicles. Whatever the comparative merits, or otherwise, of the competing marques, the Sheffield PDR2/1 Atlanteans were mountain goats whereas the CRG6LXB Fleetlines struggled up the many steep hills. I saw it regularly with Atlanteans on the Outer Circle and Fleetlines on the Hemsworths going up Scarsdale Road.

David Oldfield

03/12/21 – 06:08

What a smart pair of buses! Handsome designs and elegant livery. I only knew the southern fleets, save for the high speed Scotland-London coaches which thundered down the A1 through Stevenage, through the night, which were black and white, if memory serves. Circa 1952-3 (Western Scottish?)
What a platform these pages provide for us all!

Victor Brumby

Leeds City Transport – Daimler CVG6 – YNW 555 – 555

Leeds City Transport - Daimler CVG6 - YNW 555 - 555Leeds City Transport - Daimler CVG6 - YNW 555 - 555

Leeds City Transport
1957
Daimler CVG6
Weymann H33/27R

Photographed in April 1970 in the dignified livery of Leeds City Transport is Daimler CVG6, Weymann H33/27R, YNW 555, No. 555, one of a batch of twenty delivered in September 1957. This bus remained in service to pass to WYPTE on 1 April 1974.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

10/10/18 – 05:21

Like many municipalities, Leeds Corporation got full value out of its vehicles, in this case, at least 17 years. Of course, with the impending threat of having to hand over its vehicles to the WYPTE, it might well have just decided not to replace the older ones at that stage!
Do we know when it was finally withdrawn?
One of my two trips to Leeds was to travel its tram system, with its Felthams, in 1957/58, I think. I was shocked at its closure soon afterwards, which seemed illogical with so much of it on reserved track and no employee mentioned impending doom on my visit. Does anyone know what changed to shut it down in such a short timescale?

Chris Hebbron

11/10/18 – 05:32

Volume 4 of “Leeds Transport” actually reports that 555 was withdrawn on 30/09/1971 and went to a Barnsley dealer for scrapping November 1972.

Dave Towers

12/10/18 – 06:50

Thanks for that correction, Dave, which I entirely accept. Not possessing a historic Leeds fleetlist, I did find a site that listed this batch of Daimlers as passing to the PTE, but now cannot find it. I understand that these Daimlers had air operated brakes and gearchange, which mercifully shielded unwary drivers from the decidedly painful (I speak from experience with the Halifax examples) affliction known as “Daimler knee”.

Roger Cox

23/10/18 – 05:48

The Leeds Tramway was earmarked for closure from the very early fifties. This was despite a good deal of pro tram sentiments among the public.
These and a similar batch bought a year earlier were Leeds fist buses with tin front.

Chris Hough

06/06/21 – 06:39

Yes as Chris said the Leeds system was earmarked for closure in the 1960’s but events brought the sad end earlier than expected on the 7th November 1959. Its quite amazing the number of photographs, both black and white and colour, of the system that are still around. It must be said that a great debit is owed to the National Tramway Museum and the LTHS and collectors such as Robert Mack, Keith Terry and Jim Soper and no doubt countless others.

David Walton

01/09/22 – 07:19

Recently I have been looking at the Leeds and District Transport News back issues for the 1950’s and Daimler CVG6 and CVD6 are both referred to at different times as having the name Victory. I think this could be a mistake, the CVD6 could be rightly given this term, but not the CVG6. What does your readership know about this.

David Patrick Walton

04/09/22 – 06:52

Why not the CVG6…please explain, David? Surely the chassis was what mattered, not the engine. Incidentally, there were CVA6’s, too, although not in Leeds.

Chris Hebbron

05/09/22 – 07:04

Does David not understand the Daimler naming system?
COG Coventry Oil engine Gardner. Pre-war. AEC engines also available.
CWG Coventry Wartime Gardner. Wartime. AEC engines available.
CVG Coventry Victory Gardner. Post-war. AEC/Daimler available

David Oldfield

06/09/22 – 05:26

I would suggest that the “naming” suggested by David Oldfield referred to the model coding system rather than the naming of the chassis as such.
The Daimler CWA6, CWD6 and CWG5 models were all known as “Wartime Daimlers”.
Thus the Daimler CVD6, CVG5, CVG6 and CVA6 became known as “Victory Daimlers” in the early post-war years to reflect the new Daimler chassis introduced after the war, irrespective of the engine fitted, but I have not heard the name Victory being applied to anything new after about 1948/9.

John Kaye

Leeds City Transport – AEC Swift – JNW 952E – 52

Leeds City Transport - AEC Swift - JNW 952E - 52

Leeds City Transport
1967
AEC Swift MP2R
Roe B48D

Leeds bought several batches of AEC Swifts between 1967 and 1971. Prior to these appearing the fleet was 90% double deck with around 15 saloons most of which were AEC Reliances some with centre entrance bodies with the later ones being dual door for one man operation.
Seen here are a quartet of the first two batches of Swifts parked outside the old Bramley depot which was a former tram depot.
Three of the Swifts have Roe bodywork of an attractive style while the fourth carries an MCW body which had forward sloping window pillars and a slightly stepped waistrail. Further saloons in the shape of both Swifts and single deck Fleetlines would appear before the last Roe bodied Swifts entered service in 1971. All of the buses seen here carry their original dark green with light green windows livery that was basically reversed when it was decided to paint one man operated buses in a different style to the rear entrance fleet. All of the Swifts passed to the PTE and had a largely normal life span. From the left they are 52 JNW 952E, 74 MNW 174F the solitary MCW example seen here and 54 and 56 from the same batch as 52.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hough

05/09/13 – 14:30

Leeds City Transport plus Roe bodywork is pretty much as one might expect, since the factory was within the boundary. MCW? However did that idea get past Committee???

Pete Davies

05/09/13 – 14:30

A matter of personal preference I know Chris, but I thought that the traditional Leeds City Transport livery as shown here was the very best – corporate and completely dignified, inside and out. The various batches of Swifts each had fascinating characteristics, often considerably different and interesting (challenging even) in their own ways. The first fifty as shown in the picture had semi automatic transmission while the final batches of fifty and twenty had the option of fully automatic or, if drivers like me preferred, manual override so as to allow “normal” gearchanging of a sort. In fairness though the fully automatic mode on these was normally very predictable and well behaved. All things considered, the final twenty (1051 – 1070) with luxury seats were the best of the lot and were a delight to drive and to ride in. Passenger flow in the last seventy was really excellent and they were ideal for one person operation. Rumour had it, we shall never know on what foundation, when the last twenty were on order that they would be of 12 metres length – its a good job that they weren’t, as some of the corners on the inner city routes would have been literally impossible – the turn from the nearside lane of East Parade into Park Lane (Headrow) being one certainty. Thanks again for a really nostalgic picture Chris.

Chris Youhill

06/09/13 – 08:21

Peter Leeds had a long history of dual sourcing bodywork between Roe and MCW although the Swifts were the first saloons.
Chris I too preferred the original liveries seen here although the doors were a little eccentric since the exit door was half the width of the entrance. The Park Royal examples were much better in having both doors of normal width. The Roe 1971 batch had fronts derived from the Leeds two door decker design and as you say were a joy to ride on. I recall that they were replaced on the Ring Road service with Duple bodied Tigers which were also a pleasant ride. One thing that has always struck me about the MCW bodied Swifts was their apparent narrowness at the front compared to the Roe examples.

Chris Hough

06/09/13 – 08:22

By 1967/8 MCW had been Leeds’ ‘backup’ supplier of bodywork for the best part of two decades. It was widely believed that it was possible to get more advantageous quotes from suppliers by multi-sourcing.

David Call

10/09/13 – 06:33

You are right Chris, and the MCW do appear narrower and even allowing for slightly different camera angle its very strange indeed – but must somehow be just an illusion ??
The Tigers were truly superb vehicles, mechanically and bodily, and the luxurious brown patterned moquette seats were the finest. They did indeed replace the Swifts on the Ring Road service entirely, and I think on most other single deck routes from Headingley Depot – memory not clear, although it should be, on the last point but its getting now to be a long time ago – I eagerly took redundancy from the forthcoming “circus” on October 25th 1986. On joining South Yorkshire Road Transport after that I encountered daily more Tigers but with OPO adapted Plaxton luxury coachwork – these really were the bees knees for stage carriage work, and one of them still enjoyed a working radio – the others having been silenced because of arguments arising on private hires and excursions – and whenever I had number 22 on bus services (often) the passengers were able to enjoy Radio Two.

Chris Youhill

10/09/13 – 16:30

Like Chris, I have a great deal of affection for the TRCTL11 Tigers. [A shame there were no TRCTL12s – AEC men will know what I mean.]

David Oldfield

10/09/13 – 16:30

Going off at a bit of a tangent here, but at Halifax we had some of the Tigers to which Chris refers. They became regular performers on the ex-Hebble Rochdale service, along with its later alternative variant via the incredibly narrow and tortuous lanes around Mill Bank and Soyland. They certainly romped along compared with ex-West Yorkshire Leopard coaches which we also had at the time, though they always gave me the impression of not being quite so durable. They were also without any doubt the worst buses I have ever had to drive in snow and ice.
However, I would question Chris’s views on their bodywork. They had Duple Dominant Bus bodies, and were apparently built in stages, the works giving priority to coach production and fitting ours in as and when they had a bit of spare time. Our chap whose job it was to monitor the construction of the PTE’s buses paid a visit to the works and found their basic steel frameworks had been assembled and then dumped outside in the yard with inadequate (or possibly no) rustproofing to suffer the worst of the salty Blackpool sea air. They were already rusting away and a strong request was made (in no uncertain broad Yorkshire terms I can well imagine !) to get them treated straight away. This was apparently carried out, but apparently not very well, and they began to suffer corrosion problems from quite an early stage in their lives. There were two batches, and I think it was the first batch of seven Y-reg ones (which went to Leeds) which suffered the worst, but one of our A-prefix ones was subject to quite a major rebuild later and became the only one to carry the white, blue and yellow First Calderline livery, and the last to survive.

John Stringer

11/09/13 – 08:30

But John, they were Duples. The reason that the firm folded was because of the appalling quality and finish. Your story helps explain why the metal frames were so prone to rust and corrosion. The fit and finish left a lot to be desired on the 320/340 bodies at the end (1989). I know of at least one Western National 340/Tiger where the panels were coming adrift after a few months and I drove a 320/Scania where I thought that the engine cover had counterbalancing until I was told it was rusted metal “sloshing” about in the cavity. How are the mighty fallen. Duple were at the top of their game when they moved to Blackpool and had an honourable history with the Continental and Commander but seemed to lose the plot after that. The Dominant was an Elite rip off – but with a metal frame. Somehow it never worked – despite the Continental being a successful metal-framed model. MCW had exactly the same corrosion problems despite the MCCW metal frames being the best of their time.

David Oldfield

11/09/13 – 16:30

Following on from Davids comments. It is interesting that the PTE/Yorkshire Rider never went for the National (one batch only) and Calderdales last pre low floor saloon were Plaxton bodied Volvos.

Chris Hough

12/09/13 – 08:30

John and David – I can only say that I amazed to hear of such structural inferiority in the Duple Dominant bodies, but naturally don’t doubt it for a minute on hearing such reliable reports. All I can say is that, in their “youth”, the Headingley PTE Tiger ones were superbly comfortable and free of any rattling or body noise and movement – as the saying goes “You can’t judge a book by its cover.” !!

Chris Youhill

Leeds City Transport – AEC Swift – MUB 193F – 93

MUB 193F

Leeds City Transport
1968
AEC Swift MP2R
MCW B48D

Pictured in Leeds in April 1970 is Leeds City Transport No.93, MUB 193F, an AEC Swift MP2R bought in May 1968 with MCW B48D bodywork that emulated the forward sloping side pillars of contemporary Alexander designs. A curious feature was the narrow width of the centre exit door. I believe that here was a total of thirty such buses, which were intermixed with deliveries of Swifts with Roe bodywork, also of B48D pattern, some of which arrived in 1967. Swifts continued to feature in the Leeds purchasing programme until 1971. The Swift MP2R was powered by the AH505 8.2 litre engine, and the first Leeds batches, of which No.93 is an example, had the semi automatic Monocontrol transmission. Later examples were fitted with fully auto gearboxes. I am sure that other correspondents with much a greater knowledge than mine of the Leeds system can give details of these buses in service.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

26/06/19 – 09:48

The narrow exit door was also a feature of the Roe bodied Swifts delivered in 1967/68.
The biggest batch of Swifts were the 50 delivered in 1969 were bodied by Park Royal and had full size centre doors The last Swifts came in 1971 and had Roe bodywork. In addition to the Swifts Leeds also bought thirty single deck Fleetlines with Park Royal bodywork these were identical to the fifty Park Royal bodied Swifts

Chris Hough

28/10/20 – 05:36

I think there were 5 variants of these.
51 – ? were AEC Swifts with MCW bodywork, vertical window pillars, lights in the roof line and narrow doors, bus seats MUG 4xxF reg.
? – 100 were AEC Swifts with Roe bodywork, they were the slanting window ones as the pic above, coach seats, narrow rear door MUG 1xxF reg.
Not sure of the split I think 51 – 85 were MCW, 86 – 100 were Roe 1966-8.
1001 – 1050 AEC Swift, Park Royal bodies, wide rear doors, dest display at side. bus seats SUB 4xxG 1969.
1201 – 1230 Daimler Fleetline Roe bodies, wide rear doors, bus seats, dest and route no at side, reg UNW 2xxH introduced 1970.
1051 – 1070 AEC Swift Roe body wide rear doors, only route number at side. coach seats AUB 1xxJ introduces 1971.
Please let me know if I have any of this wrong.

Ken

01/11/20 – 06:07

According to buslistsontheweb.co.uk the 51-100 split was rather more complicated than that:
51 (GUM 451D): Roe body, 1966 (exhibited at Earl’s Court).
52-60 (JNW 9xxE): Roe body, 1967.
61-75 (MNW 1xxF): MCW body, 1968.
76-85 (MUG 4xxF): Roe body, 1968.
86-99 (MUB 1xxF): MCW body, 1968.
100 (MUG 100F): same as 86-99.

Peter Williamson

Leeds City Transport – AEC Reliance – KUA 46 – 46

Leeds City Transport - AEC Reliance - KUA 46 - 46

Leeds City Transport
1964
AEC Reliance 2MU2RA
Roe B41D

Seen in April 1970 is Leeds City Transport No. 46, 46 KUA, an AEC Reliance 2MU2RA with Roe B41D bodywork, one of four, Nos. 44 – 47, 44 – 47 KUA delivered in 1964. These followed an earlier order for six similar vehicles in 1962, Nos 39 – 43, 839 – 843 CUM. I understand that all these Reliances had quite a short life of around 8 years or so with Leeds.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

03/12/18 – 07:13

I can’t comment on the others, but 45 and 47 went to Aberdeen. I have a view of each from the late Arnold Richardson’s collection.

Pete Davies

04/12/18 – 06:33

All four were new in August 1964 and withdrawn in December 1970.
44 and 45 went to Aberdeen on 30th June 1971, being followed on 7th July by 46 and 47, retaining the same fleet numbers.

John Kaye

05/12/18 – 07:46

Oh dear, that destination box doesn’t look comfortable, balanced up there.

Petras409

11/12/18 – 07:43

These Reliances really came too late. They were in effect an update of the standee single deckers 29-38, to the same 30ft. length when 36 ft. had become available. Getting 41 seats into the shorter length, with dual doors meant they had poor access/exit and tight seat spacing. As with many AECs of that design they were not comfortable, or liked by passengers or drivers. Just two years later, the first 36 ft. Swifts with wider doors, easier steps and 48 better spaced seats arrived. They may not have been great, but they were better. In a year or so there were 50 Swifts in operation and 39 to 46 were consigned to relief work and then sale.

Andy Buckland

13/12/18 – 05:53

Several of these also ended up in Scotland with Greyhound of Arbroath.

Chris Hough

07/01/19 – 07:12

I’ve sometimes wondered what was so wrong with the AEC Swift and the Leyland Panther that caused many operators to not get on with them, prematurely retire them (especially London’s AECs) and overall have bad experiences, while the conceptually similar Bristol RE seems to have commonly led a full life with its original operators.
It’s not as if they did not incorporate standard components in use elsewhere.

Bill

12/01/19 – 08:23

In the absence of a more comprehensive reply from someone who knows more, I will say that one of the differences between Bristol’s approach and the Panther/Swift approach was the position of the driveline and its effect on weight distribution. In the Panther and Swift the engine and gearbox were at the extreme rear of the overhang, whereas the RE had the engine further forward, with the gearbox in front of the rear axle.

Peter Williamson

16/01/19 – 07:27

The Panther also had a much weaker frame causing bending and breaking. Even in preservation I can think of a couple where following you can see the curve.

Roger Burdett

17/01/19 – 07:09

The radiator for the Swift was not at the front, as in the Panther or the RE, but tucked away behind a panel in the bodywork behind the offside back wheels.
Although this arrangement probably insured against air locks in the cooling system, it restricted the flow of cooling air over the surface of the radiator and could result in the engine overheating.

John B

18/01/19 – 06:30

My Foden which has the Rad in the same position still airlocks so concur John B comment.

Roger Burdett

18/01/19 – 06:32

In the Bristol RE the drive went forward from the engine to the gearbox located in front of the rear axle, and then back again to the differential. This gave a prop shaft of decent length to accommodate the suspension travel of the rear axle, something that competitive designs (the worst being the Seddon RU) lacked. Contrary to popular belief, the RE did not pioneer this layout. The Rutland Clipper of 1954 used a similar arrangement.

Roger Cox

Leeds City Transport – AEC Regent V – XUM 894 – 894

Leeds City transport AEC Regent V

Leeds City transport
1957
AEC Regent V
Roe H60R

Yet another example of a Regent V with a Regent III radiator. If I remember Leeds city Transport buses were nearly all semi automatic or had clutch less gearboxes of some description probable to help them off to quick start from the bus stops.

894 is the last of a huge batch which were ordered as tram replacements. The next batch numerically were fitted with 8′ wide bodies.

Terry Malloy

The last batches of post-war LCT buses to have full three pedal “clutch and gearbox” transmission were the Crossleys, the Leyland PD1s, the sixty Leyland PD2s (NNW batch), the six “standee” single deckers (2 Guy, 3 AEC Reliance and 3 Leyland Tiger Cub) – so rather more than is generally realised !!

Chris Youhill

Hi everyone,
I meant to post this link a while ago, finally got around to it.
www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=39972
It shows the first delivery of these vehicles to Torre Road Depot.

Terry Malloy

I think the reason for preferring clutchless transmissions, in common with several other municipal operators, was the need to retrain large numbers of tram drivers in a very short time. Far fewer people owned cars in those days, and many of those tram drivers would never have driven a motor vehicle.
What about the PD2/11s (UUA batches)? I know some of them were specials with pneumo-cyclic transmission, but I didn’t think they all were.

Peter Williamson

The last manual gearbox double deckers were the sixty “NNW” Leyland PD2s. All subsequent double deck vehicles being semi automatic of one kind or another. Thereafter all AECs and Daimlers were either three pedal pre-selector or two pedal “monocontrol.” All Leylands were two pedal pneumo-cyclic with the exception of the batch of ten “RNW”s (301 -310) which were three pedal pre-selector, and were the only ones made other than the London Transport RTLs and RTWs. Passionately wishing to drive one of the latter, I booked a piece of teatime overtime out of Bramley and persuaded a bemused but helpful shift foreman to let me take 307, one of the only two remaining at the time – a great experience !!

Chris Youhill

31/07/12 – 05:43

The clutch you are referring to was a gear changing pedal (NOT A CLUTCH) they were known as preselctors, I used to love to drive them brings back memories going up Churwell Hill in the old girls, (52/53 Morley)

Roger Hopper

07/11/12 – 16:47

Snivelling out of Bramley Chris? You’re very lucky one of the PD1s wasn’t compulsory for you! When we had these at Torre Road Garage (301 – 310) we used to complain bitterly that they wouldn’t “Pull” up hills. Scott Hall Road 69 & 70 routes used to see old Hunslet MK3s flying past us. The regular Bramley drivers (used to PD1s & PD2s used to use a form of “double declutching” on these and other preselector buses – preselecting neutral between gears. Don’t know if this helped or not. Perhaps the Bramley mechanics knew how to tune them up properly as I never heard of any complaints about lack of power when the Bramley drivers got hold of them.

Bill Midgley

08/11/12 – 07:16

Most interesting memories Bill, thank you, and I had forgotten or was never aware that the “RTL”s had been at Torre Road. On that one joyous occasion that I drove 307 I found it went very well – unless I was mesmerised by the wonderful concerto of gurglings, compressed air hissings and tick over wobblings so as not to notice, and of course there were virtually no real hills on that particular piece of work, the entire outward journey from Bramley in the west to Barnbow Factory in the east being “private.” The Bramley practice you mention of “double de-clutching” is completely unorthodox, baffling, and quite un-necessary, and surely can have no advantage at all – in fact it entirely defeats the object of faultless gear changes for which the system was invented !!

Chris Youhill

08/11/12 – 11:12

Ah, but it must have been harder to fiddle a CVD or CWD like. The gearchange was not an H-gate but a quadrant, so the neutral position was not between the gears. Having said that, the sheer driver-crippling vindictiveness of the change pedal has entered the annals of bus folk-lore!

Stephen Ford

10/11/12 – 10:20

Chris, these buses were new to Torre Road Garage and serviced the 69 Moortown and 70 Primley Park via Scott Hall Road services. The crews were on the TRG Rota – the precursor to getting a “Regular” on a main route.
At TRG, these were :- Dewsbury Road – Moortown – Middleton, Morley – Meanwood, East End Park Circular (included Moortown-Whitkirk & Leeds – Bradford), Lawnswood – Beeston, Half Mile Lane & Compton Road – Horsforth. Nearly everyone wanted to get onto Lawnswood because it had the best duty sheets – usually two “dinnertimes” in a late week. I worked out of TRG from 1958 – 1960 and had a “Regular” on Dewsbury Road before I went off to Headingley. When I first started, I was the youngest conductor on LCT being eighteen and two weeks! Ah! Those were the days – or maybe not!

Bill Midgley

06/01/15 – 05:42

Here’s a Pathe News clip of one of the Monocontrol Regent V’s being driven by a one-legged driver. //www.britishpathe.com/video/monocontrol-bus-aka-revolutionary-bus/query/leeds+buses

Chris Hebbron

07/01/15 – 06:26

Chris the one legged driver was John Rafferty the long time chairman of the council transport committee. The film was shot at Torre Road depot.

Chris Hough

08/01/15 – 06:43

Breath-holding shots of Alderman Rafferty climbing unaided into this Roe half-cab using his one leg and his crutch.

Joe

Leeds City Transport – AEC Regent V – ENW 980D – 980

Leeds City Transport AEC Regent V

Leeds City Transport
1966
AEC Regent V
Roe H39/31R

Perhaps this snippet about Leeds City Transports AEC Regent V fleet number 980 which has been preserved and is stored at the Keighley Bus Museum may be of interest. 980 spent most, if not all of its service life at the Headingley depot along with the remainder of the batch 974 – 983. I don’t know the technicalities but it was fitted with some kind of modified exhaust system which gave a totally different tone to the norm, especially when pulling hard. As it passed its home depot on the routes northwards out of Leeds it was instantly recognisable by the unique sound alone. The tone was uncannily like that made by a water craft when the exhaust dips below the surface and accordingly amongst enthusiast staff 980 enjoyed the nickname “The motor boat”. Very happy days indeed.

Copy contributed by Chris Youhill

The exhaust sounds like an example of the famous AEC “straight through” exhaust – common on Regent IIIs, less common but not unknown on Regent Vs.

My passions are AECs and bodywork by Burlingham, Roe and Weymann. What a fine photograph of a beautiful bus. I am actually very concerned about the future of a similar bus ex Sheffield B fleet number 1330 registration number 6330 WJ which has been in the limbo of being half restored at Sheffield, South Yorkshire. An almost identical 2D3RA of 1960 vintage.

David Oldfield

I know the Mark IIIs wonderful barking “straight through” sound that you mean – this magnificent recital was fitted to most if not all of the Leeds City Transport “PUA” registration batch, of which 674 was undoubtedly the finest as it bellowed its way through the City Centre usually on services 42/66 from Harehills to Old Farnley/Leysholme Estate.

However the “motor boat” sound produced uniquely by 980 was quite different and was somewhat muffled and refined, perhaps best described as gentle “under water” bubbling. What priceless memories we are lucky to enjoy.

Chris Youhill

Work is well underway on the above vehicle…this site will be kept informed of developments in due course.

Mick Holian

Leeds City Transport always seemed to have a well turned out fleet of interesting vehicles, but seeing and hearing one of their many Regent Vs was to many of us the icing on the cake. Whether it was a handsome Roe-bodied example, or one of the plainer (but slightly more imposing?) MCW ones with exposed radiators, it didn’t matter. To the ear they were just the same – gorgeous! Perhaps best summed up as the mechanical sound effects of a Routemaster, coupled to the exhaust system of a decent sports car?! They were once a common sound booming their way up The Headrow past Lewis’s. If you were lucky enough, sometimes a skilled driver with a tuned ear would ‘hold’ a bus on its exhaust bark for quite a distance up the gentle incline. Bliss!….and a damned sight better than todays droning Volvo B7TLs!

Brendan Smith

Mention of the PUA registered 1952 AEC Regent IIIs brings to mind the Roe advert which adorned Leeds timetables for many years 669 was used until the nineteen sixties when it was replaced by a dual doored AEC Reliance in 1967 this was replaced by 131 the first of Leeds 33 foot Fleetlines the last Leeds bus to appear was a 1968 Daimler Fleetline with Roe dual door body. A small batch of these AECs carried very shapely Weymann bodywork.

Chris Hough

The six handsome Weymann “PUAs” were numbered 649 – 655 and they were a pleasure to behold from outside, and when on board you could enjoy some of the last Leeds buses to have the “warm” light beige window surrounds – I always thought that the subsequent silver ones were harsh and a retrograde step.

Chris Youhill

I have quite a collection of LCT photos click here to view. Some of them should bring back an odd memory or two!

David Beilby

25/09/11 – 07:18

Some of these AEC’s had a short spell with Tyne and Wear PTE (formerly Newcastle Transport) I believe they had been let down with a delivery of new vehicles and the AEC’s were brought in as a stop gap. They were used on the 18/19 Walker Circle route and were still in their LCT livery, but the panel around the radiator grill had been painted yellow.

Ronnie Hoye

25/09/11 – 09:00

I think that the L.C.T. buses that went to Tyne and Wear initially went to OK Motor Services but were not used by them. Tyne and Wear also painted the first panel on either side in their yellow livery.

Philip Carlton

25/09/11 – 09:03

They did look interesting in Newcastle didn’t they ?? The one in this picture though, 980, travelled even further north and served with A1 Services of Ardrossan in another fine green livery before being “repatriated” and is now approaching restoration to perfection standards at Keighley Bus Museum.

Chris Youhill

25/09/11 – 15:20

Further to my comments about LCT Buses in Newcastle, ironically, not long before the arrival of the LCT buses, Newcastle had decommissioned their own Park Royal bodied Mk V AEC’s, some were low bridge variants for the No 5 Ponteland/Darras Hall route, I also seem to remember some other foreigners from Edinburgh and Leicester were in Newcastle at the same time.

Ronnie Hoye

26/09/11 – 15:06

The PTE in Newcastle suffered a severe vehicle shortage and purchased a small number of ex Leeds AEC Regents and at least one Roe bodied PD3/5 all had PTE Yellow applied to their bonnets In addition the PTE loaned buses from Plymouth (MCW bodied Atlanteans) Lothian (Alexander bodied PD2s) Bournemouth (Atlanteans with Newcastle style MCW bodywork) Leicester (PD3s with East Lancs bodywork0 and Southend (Fleetlines with NCME bodywork)

Chris Hough

29/01/12 – 17:48

Yep about half a dozen Regent V”s and the PD3/5 along with all the other exotic birds were allocated to Byker depot and we had a trip out to photograph them. To add to the interest the restored Newcastle Leyland PD2 (in blue livery) and some ex Standerwick Bristol VRLL”s for the ferry services were also on shed. Newcastle was a very interesting place at that time. I am told that the Regents subsequently went to the magnificent OK motor services but not sure if they were ever used (possibly cannibalised for parts?)

Tony Greig