Caerphilly Urban District Council 1965 Leyland Titan PD3/4 Massey L35/33RD
Here we have another Urban District Council vehicle this time it is a Massey lowbridge-bodied Leyland Titan PD3/4 which was new to Caerphilly Urban District Council in October 1965 as fleet number 32. With chassis number L42817 and body number 5911 this bus looks in fine fettle in this photograph, taken at the Bus & Coach Wales event in September 2014.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson
21/01/16 – 06:49
What a smart looking bus. Very unusual to have hopper windows in the saloons of a bus of that age – wonder if they are a later fitment? Must be ‘pretty adjacent’ to the nearside top deck passengers heads – wonder if an additional notice is required ‘Please mind your head on the windows when leaving your seat’!!
Ian Wild
21/01/16 – 06:49
Nice view, Les, and thanks for posting.
Pete Davies
21/01/16 – 07:33
Caerphilly had hopper vents on all their later PD2s and PD3s as well as their Massey-bodied Leopards. They seem to have had some popularity in South Wales as Pontypridd also specified them on their last two Guy Arabs and first few Regent Vs as well as some Reliances at the same time. Oddly, they went back to sliders for the last Regent Vs.
David Beilby
21/01/16 – 15:37
Something curiously old fashioned about it for its age. Probably the trad Massey body and classic radiator- and the blind masks and handle… but how come the OMO-ish cab side windows? Smart job, though.
Joe
22/01/16 – 06:14
Very handsome bus, but what really is old-fashioned about it is that as late as 1965 someone thought it worth ordering a traditional lowbridge bus with the awful offside sunken gangway on the upper deck.
David Wragg
22/01/16 – 06:15
Joe – you’ve lost me there about “OMOish cab side windows ?? The extended destination handles were not unknown amongst certain operators and they were an extremely good idea – any small conductor/driver, or any height for that matter, could have a nasty accident climbing up a slippery metal foothold to change the destination in the more usual arrangement. As you say curiously old fashioned – but in my view delightfully traditional and oh how I wish they were rolling off the production lines in their hundreds today !!
Chris Youhill
22/01/16 – 16:10
Talking of small Conductors and changing destination blinds, here is an Oldham Corporation Passenger Transport Department ‘GUARD’ doing just that with the help of the extended winding handles, on Roe (H37/28R) bodied Leyland PD2/30, PBU 950 (Fleet No.450). New in October 1958, it passed to SELNEC PTE in November 1969, and was given Fleet No.5350, a seen here. It was the only bus to carry the SELNEC fleet number on the Crimson Lake livery. It was withdrawn in July 1971, and went to Barnsley for scrap.
Stephen Howarth
22/01/16 – 17:04
West Riding were partial to long winding gear as were Salford. In Salford it was specifically to stop crews clambering up the bus front. Of course West Riding went one further so to speak by fitting exterior winding gear to their Wulfrunians!
Chris Hough
23/01/16 – 06:45
Chris Y…. OMOish because the drivers engine side window appears to be in two pieces but not angled enough for fares… Or was there an orderly queue up, the bus?! Any ideas anywhere… And Chris….were those or the Regent V at Ledgards the only survivors into West Yorkshire?
Joe
23/01/16 – 06:46
David W – Purely by chance, I came across an item about the last lowbridge-bodied bus built – in 1968 and preserved. Coincidentally it was also a PD3 with Massey body! It was bought by Bedwas & Machen UDC, who worked closely with Caerphilly and the two probably influenced each other. See: //historypoints.org/index.
Chris Hebbron
23/01/16 – 06:47
I don’t think the hopper vents would have been a problem for passengers leaving, since it was impossible to stand up in any case. The only way out was to slide along the seat – after asking anyone else who was on it to unload themselves into the gangway first. There really was no excuse for this in 1965. I know these buses were wonderful for enthusiasts, but passengers and conductors were more important.
Peter Williamson
23/01/16 – 12:43
No Joe – you can definitely forget any OMO connotation on connection with the cab window. I’m pretty certain that the only front engined buses, and forward entrance ones at that, were some adapted by various operators for the purpose by angling the front bulkhead window partly over the bonnet. It was the shabbiest practice ever and involved the driver twisting round excessively to serve boarding passengers on the steps as they entered. Much unjustified scoffing is aimed at “Health and Safety” but this would be a prime example of where this “OMO” practice should have been stamped on from the very start !! Now, the West Yorkshire/Ledgard takeover – all the Ledgard vehicles were taken over by West Yorkshire, but only fourteen were used by them. These were the ten AEC Regent Vs (six new to Ledgard and four ex South Wales) which became DAW 1 – 10, and the two Daimler CVG6s which became DGW 11/12. This apparent “series” of 1 – 12 was not a series but a coincidence as West Yorkshire already DGW 1 – 10 of their own, those being Bristol KSW6Gs. Also used by West Yorkshire were Ledgard’s two Thames/Duple coaches which became CF1/2.
Chris Youhill
25/01/16 – 06:31
Thank you, Chris Hebbron. I hadn’t realised that lowbridge bodies were produced as late as that. My family left for Malta for three years in 1956, by which time Hants & Dorset Bristol LD series Lodekkas could be seen in Gosport. Of course, the change over took some time, and returning in 1959 there were still lowbridge Bristol Ks running around Gosport and Fareham, as well as a couple of highbridge convertibles that had originally been panted in reversed out livery and which, with the upstairs roof on, rattled like mad.
David Wragg
26/01/16 – 06:46
The specifying of lowbridge bodywork as late as 1965 and even afterwards indicates organisations in which the purchasing decisions were dominated by the engineering department. Better to have a simple, proven traditional chassis like the PD3 rather than one of those troublesome rear engined things. As far as the passengers were concerned, they were used to the old lowbridge type and didn’t know any better. The fundamental reason for running buses – that of encouraging people to travel by offering an attractive mode of transport – didn’t enter the equation. The Lodekka was still available right up to 1968, but that didn’t have a rear entrance, nor could it have a Massey body. This was surely a case of “It’s always been done; why change?”.
Roger Cox
29/01/16 – 07:09
Does anyone know why, after decades of running lowbridge dds, Caerphilly suddenly switched to highbridge for their last two PD2s (F-reg) and subsequent Atlanteans?
David Call
30/01/16 – 06:10
I think the main reason that Caerphilly changed was the removal of a low railway bridge at Maes-y-Cymmer, between Ystrad Mynach and Pontllanfraith. This was on two routes – the famous 36 from Cardiff to Tredegar and also the former Commercial Motor Service route from Pontypridd to Blackwood. As a consequence it had an impact on a lot of fleets as Cardiff, Caerphilly and West Mon worked the 36 whilst the other service involved Caerphilly, Pontypridd and West Mon. Pontypridd also had a works journey to Pontllanfraith and for this reason Pontypridd had two lowbridge K6Gs in an otherwise highbridge fleet. Cardiff’s contribution was lowbridge Crossleys followed by Bridgemasters. I think there was another low-ish bridge which still constrained Cardiff a little and only certain batches of vehicles appeared on the 36 even when the Maes-y-Cymmer bridge was removed.
David Beilby
25/10/16 – 14:22
Ramsbottoms last two PD3s, 10 and 11, were fitted for OMO by having an angled shelf towards the driver but when they were transferred to Bury after the Selnec takeover, the crews there would not entertain it at all.
BUF 279C fleet number 279 is nearest the camera in this view taken at Dunsfold on 10 April 2011. Her close cousin, 972 CUF fleet number 972, is alongside. Both are Leyland titan PD3/4 vehicles with Northern Counties FH69F bodies. 972 was new in 1964 and 279 is from 1965. The third member of the group is UUF 116J fleet number 516, a Bristol VR/ECW combination. The vehicle is obviously too new for these pages, but it does show what a timeless livery the Southdown one was – dignified on any outline and far better than certain random applications of paint seen on too many buses these days.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
13/04/16 – 06:04
The “dignified colour scheme” seems to have had quite an evolution. When venturing darn sarth many years ago, the scheme that impressed and still does is that olivey green which can be seen on the ill-starred 1952 PD2 “coach” on this site. We seem to have moved on here, even allowing for colour process and it’s now a bit vivid – but at least not the miserable NBC green which has also featured here.
Joe
13/04/16 – 06:05
Attached are 2 pictures of 279 with OK Motor Services of Bishop Auckland. This bus was my regular vehicle when I worked there, on the Bishop Auckland to Wolsingham School AM journey.
Stephen Howarth
13/04/16 – 13:42
Joe, I ventured ‘darn sarth’ many years ago, but I stayed! I only remember this style and the NBC green. Perhaps the livery on that PD2 was a failed experiment! My trouble is that, when I return to the north west, folk up there think I’m a Southerner. Nice views, Stephen! Another dignified livery.
Pete Davies
13/04/16 – 13:43
The Southdown livery is one of my favourites, along with Royal Blue and Brighton Corporation/BH&D, before the Corporation changed to an insipid blue and white, while BH&D was absorbed by Southdown and the livery became the much detested National Green.
David Wragg
14/04/16 – 06:02
I am Sussex born and bred, and feel I can make some comments on Southdown livery. The green used on most preserved vehicles tends to be a little too bright. From memory, and looking at some of the other Southdown colour pics on this site and in various books, Southdown green was slightly more ‘yellowy’ and closer to a true apple green. However, we should not let this detract from the splendid job that the preservationists have done.
Roy Nicholson
14/04/16 – 08:14
Interesting, Roy. The Southdown which made such an impression on me was yes, apple green (introduced, it says somewhere, in 1932) which was less vivid and yes a bit yellowy or even olivey. If you look around the net, there seem many shades of Southdown green, but occasionally I see the one I remember. It went with holidays!
Joe
31/07/17 – 07:25
Southdown livery brings back many happy memories of holidays with relatives in Fareham in the 1960’s, taking buses to Lee-on-Solent or Southsea
Andrew Stevens
23/11/17 – 07:23
I drove one of these in the eighties. It had been converted for exhibitions, with lengthways seating, a fridge, sink and a bar upstairs and downstairs. It was registered as a motor caravan by this time. I’m fairly positive it is no longer in existence.
Dews Coaches 1967 Leyland PD3/4 East Lancs H41/32F
This PD3 was delivered to Ramsbottom UDC in November 1967. The chassis is variously described as PD3/4 or PD3/14, the confusion arising because Leyland reclassified its chassis codes at around that time. PD3/4 is probably correct. The body is by East Lancs and was delivered as H41/32, but, again, the capacity is now sometimes quoted as 70 seats. The Ramsbottom fleet was absorbed into SELNEC on 1/11/1969, and FTF 702F was withdrawn by SELNEC’s successor, Greater Manchester PTE, in December 1980. It was sold initially to Gold Star Coaches in St Asaph, North Wales, who then disposed of it to Alpha Coaches of Bootle in 1984. It didn’t stay there for very long, because in July 1984 it appeared in the fleet of Black Prince of Morley, who ran it right up to the end of that firm’s operation in July 2005. First Group sold it in September 2006 to Dews Coaches of Somersham, who added it to their small heritage fleet. FTF is seen here on wedding duties in St Ives (the Huntingdonshire one) on 5/9/2015.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
12/05/16 – 07:15
In my own days in St Ives, Ronny Dew ran a range of Bedford coaches however there were many Leyland PDs operated around the area by Whippet Coaches. Seven ex-Trent 72-seat rear entrance PD3/4s were in this mix but I don’t recall any forward entrance ones in Mr Lee’s fleet. Additionally there were a good number of PD2s most of which also came from Trent. I remember one low-bridge model from East Midland that I had previously ridden whilst it was with working on EMMS home territory.
Les Dickinson
12/05/16 – 17:02
A stunning all Lancashire product looking as good as it did 49 years ago when I first saw it. I prefer preserved vehicles in their original livery but this presentation is 100% plus.
Phil Blinkhorn
13/05/16 – 06:10
Nice view, Roger. I have submitted one to Peter with the bus in “Black Prince” guise, at Duxford, if he’d like to dig it out.
Pete Davies
13/05/16 – 06:11
This fine vehicle was the last bus to run on scheduled Black Prince with one of the Cowther family at the wheel. Black Prince also had a Roe bodied Leyland Titan that was new to Farsley Omnibus. The whereabouts of this bus would be appreciated.
Chris Hough
13/05/16 – 06:12
I was lucky enough to have a ride on it last year at the Peterborough Bus Rally and it was in fine fettle. A friend of mine in his early twenties was at the wheel. For a young lad brought up on modern ‘aim and point’ buses he managed the heavy Leyland manual transmission admirably.
Philip Halstead
13/05/16 – 06:15
As Phil points out, this PD3 in Dew’s colours is a fine example of a traditional livery that stands head and shoulders above the ‘modern’, indulgent, eye offending absurdities that blight bus fleets today. Dews (the firm itself has abandoned the apostrophe) does have a Bedford OWB coach, CUT 465, of 1944 vintage with a later Duple Vista C29F body of 1952. It has made a brief appearance in the Foyle’s War TV series, though purists would declare that its later body makes it an anachronism in a wartime drama. It is seen here in the fenland town of Ramsey, providing a service to the former RAF Upwood airfield during the 1940s August weekend event of 2006. The gentleman facing the camera from behind the nearside mirror is Simon Dew who currently runs the business with his wife Debbie, though his father, David, still has active involvement.
Roger Cox
14/05/16 – 06:43
A slight diversion, I know this is not a model bus site but here is a model I made of the same vehicle in original Ramsbottom UDC livery. It is 00 scale 4mm to 1 foot made from a plastic kit.
Philip Halstead
14/05/16 – 08:49
This picture of “FTF” which I took as it waited to operate the very last ever Black Prince departure from Leeds Vicar Lane to Morley at 2315 on Saturday 30th July 2005. The conductor is Brian Crowther, founder of Black Prince, and the driver is his son David – the route is a tricky one with many stops on the steep Churwell Hill. The bus was virtually full all the way, and one well sozzled client was heard to splutter “What are they doing with old London Transport buses on here ??” Such is the lamentable understanding of many of the lay public about public transport I’m afraid. I have no hesitation in saying that David’s impeccable performance gave us the finest ride on a manual PD3 that we’d ever experienced, not the easiest machines to handle on hills with heavy loads, and the journey was a credit to him and his Dad, who didn’t show their emotions too dramatically but it must have been a very emotive hour for them.
Chris Youhill
15/05/16 – 06:57
Nice views of ‘little’ and ‘large’, Philip and Chris! Could Philip please point us in the right direction for obtaining such a kit?
Pete Davies
16/05/16 – 06:49
The kit was made by a company called Classic Model Company (earlier named MTS) but I am not sure if they are still available. They may be available on e-bay. I did hear the Model Bus Federation had bought the moulds so they many be obtainable through that organisation. The kit is a one piece plastic bodyshell with seating, wings, wheels etc included to be added separately. As kits go they were quite easy to build. They were offered as Leyland PD3 with exposed traditional radiator or St Helens front, AEC Regent V and Daimler CVG6. Transfers were included for Ramsbottom, Haslingden, Bradford, Huddersfield and Black Prince. The firm also did a Bristol FS with transfers for various Tilling/NBC fleets plus Central SMT. When available originally they cost about a fiver so were excellent value and very good quality. Hope this helps.
Philip Halstead
19/05/16 – 06:03
That green and white livery with red wheels is very attractive. Shades of Nottingham Corporation Transport at its best in terms of livery. On balance I think I favour this one over the other good liveries that this vehicle has borne.
Orla Nutting
19/05/16 – 14:40
Thank you, Philip!
Pete Davies
19/05/16 – 14:40
I myself have been lucky enough to drive FTF 702F whilst with Dews, I took it out on a number of occasions on trips to local rallies etc with members of the Cambridge Omnibus Society. A very pleasant bus to drive. The pic shows me with it at Great Yeldham Transport Museum open day in May 2011. It has the obligatory ‘Wedding Special’ on the blind to advertise the fact its available for wedding hire. The destination box being on the small size it would have only shown minimal info when in service.
John Wakefield
27/05/16 – 06:14
I think someone asked about the Farsley bus – HNW 366D. Sadly this was burnt out some years ago.
Paul Turner
07/06/16 – 06:58
After Black Prince HNW 366D moved to Classic Coaches and after the demise of the latter went to auction (with no COF) but was set on fire in the auctioneers yard after its auction. BTW it had spent a brief period, joining HNW 365D, at Hardwick’s in Scarborough after WA ceased Farsley operations in the late 60s.
Ian H
02/08/16 – 06:48
Bancroft and Powers bought my grandfathers business Dec 1968, The Bedford CUT 465 was sold to Morton Potter Leicester I think in 1966, I have recently purchased a model of this bus in Dews colours.
Pauline Peters
30/10/16 – 06:20
The DVLA list owner changes of FTF 702F as follows which differ slightly from those quoted by Roger Cox. current (Dews) 14/9/06 previous(Black Prince) 8/5/84 3rd owner (Alpha Coaches) 29/6/82 disposed 7/12/83 As a matter of interest Dews have recently sold the Leyland to a previous owner in Liverpool, this looks to be Taylor who traded as Alpha Coaches, Bootle.
John Wakefield
02/11/16 – 14:56
Travelled on this many times when it was Selnec 6408 and based at Bury, in the mid 70s.
David Pomfret
14/12/16 – 15:48
Most unusually, this Ramsbottom PD3 was allocated to Rochdale depot by Greater Manchester Transport in the mid 1970s. Rochdale Corporation had never bought Leylands since 1940 and Rochdale’s own Leylands were all withdrawn by 1956. A couple of withdrawn Bolton Leyland PD2s with manual gearboxes were sent to Rochdale in the 1970s for driver training purposes, then 6408 appeared in passenger use. It was the only front-engined Leyland to operate from Rochdale’s Mellor Street depot after 1956.
Ian Holt
06/06/17 – 07:07
I’ve recently received an email with a photo showing that this PD3 has now been repainted back into its original Rawtenstall livery.
Since the formation of the partly railway-owned Huddersfield Joint Omnibus Committee in May 1930, the arrangement had been that tram and trolleybus routes, irrespective of whether they ran within or without the borough, were to remain the business of the Corporation, and that all motorbus routes would be run by the JOC ” a very different arrangement to JOC agreements elsewhere. When the Corporation finally made a decision to abandon trolleybuses from 1961 and replace them with motorbuses, then the converted routes would remain in Corporation control. With the introduction of motorbuses on the 30 Almondbury to West Vale route in November 1961, eight Leyland PD3A/2’s with Roe H39/31F bodies (401-408, UCX 401-408) were delivered ” a new type for Huddersfield ” in a streamlined variation of the livery. They were not well received at the time, being considered noisy and slow, adding considerably to the time taken to climb from Elland to Ainley Top up the steeply graded ‘Ainleys’ compared to the trolleybuses. For the next conversions a further 16 of the same type were purchased (409-424, WVH 409-424), delivered in two batches in late 1962/early 1963. Eight similar, but shorter PD2A/24’s were bought for the JOC later in 1963, being in the JOC’s more conventional three-cream-banded livery, but then allegiance switched to Daimler products. Trolleybuses were abandoned altogether in 1968, and in October 1969 the Corporation took over the former railway-owned share of the JOC, as well as the local stage services of Hanson’s Buses Ltd, so from then the operation was all ‘Corporation’. Someone then suggested a new version of the livery should be introduced for the newly combined operation, and 419 (as seen above) was duly turned out in this scheme that can surely only be described as truly dreadful ” rather like the drab Hanson all-over red with a cream front. Here it is seen in John William Street in September 1970. Thankfully, this particular idea was not adopted. Following the formation of the West Yorkshire PTE twelve of the WVH-registered buses were transferred to Halifax (Metro Calderdale), including 419 – soon after renumbered 4419. All but one were repainted into WYPTE livery and soldiered on having quite a hard life on Halifax’s arduous routes, 4419 being withdrawn in September 1979, then sold at auction to a scrap dealer. The last one (4418) was withdrawn in February 1980 being one of the last three halfcabs in the Halifax fleet. Of the ones that remained at Huddersfield, some were sold for further service with OK Motor Services of Bishop Auckland, in whose livery they looked superb. One was later used as a static restroom and changing facility at the Beamish Open Air Museum, painted allover grey, but is believed not to have survived.
Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer
21/06/16 – 06:04
John says these buses were not popular when introduced. I think any motorbuses which replaced trolleybuses were on a hiding to nothing especially in such hilly terrain where passengers were used to a silent climb up the long slog to Ainley Top. The same happened in Bradford where the AEC Regent V’s got a bad reputation for noise and vibration when they took over from the trolleys on the climb up to Wibsey and Buttershaw. Bradford compounded the problem by moving to synchromesh gearboxes so in addition to the engine noise passengers were treated to the screaming whine from the gearbox.
Philip Halstead
21/06/16 – 09:06
Much as I loved trolleybuses Philip, and I did love them, if I’d been a resident of Wibsey or Buttershaw I’d have raised no objection at all and indeed I’d have been delighted, to enjoy the symphony that you mention coming from the gearboxes of the Regent Vs. If the totally unnecessary bad driving sadly so characteristic of many of the Bradford chaps on the Mark Vs had caused any injury or bruising I’d have had to follow the advice of the wonderful J. Stanley King and purchase some embrocation !! Oh to go back to the wonderful days of the 1940s/50s/60s when virtually every make and model had such character and individuality.
Chris Youhill
21/06/16 – 10:46
Indeed so, CY! We can of course sample these delights during rallies and running days, but it isn’t the same as experiencing them in normal service. Someone has commented on here in the past – I suspect it might have been Roger Cox – about having ‘steering technicians’ these days instead of drivers. All they are able to do is aim the vehicle; everything else is done automatically. When the Optare Deltas first came into service – sorry, folks! – Marchwood Motorways had some. Drivers of more traditional vehicles commented that they didn’t have even the rudimentary gear stick of a normal automatic, just three buttons: go forward, go backward, and park it. It worries me that some fleets now have them in their ‘driving schools’! Intended specifically for those ‘steering technicians’, perhaps?
Pete Davies
22/06/16 – 06:37
My memory of trolleybuses in Nottingham is that they were certainly quiet and powerful, even on steep gradients, but smooth they were not! The superb acceleration was achieved in a series of sudden sharp thrusts – reminiscent of an aircraft take-off. They couldn’t compare for smoothness with the huge fleet of pre-selector Regent IIIs.
Stephen Ford
22/06/16 – 06:38
The Leyland PD3, though undeniably a reliable plodder, was never a scintillating performer, and its braking characteristics left much to be desired. During my time in Halifax, the HPTD contribution to the 43 Halifax – Huddersfield service which traversed the Ainleys en route always consisted of PD2s which ascended the long, steep gradient steadily if not spectacularly. The Halifax JOC PD3s were generally relegated to the rather less demanding Hebden Bridge – Brighouse services. The prospect of going down the Ainleys with a PD3 would not have inspired confidence in me – I suspect that third gear would have been required to obviate severe brake fade on entering Elland. The ‘streamlined’ colour scheme of the Huddersfield Corporation fleet looked quite smart to my eye, as, indeed, did the more restrained JOC version of the livery. As John remarks, the appearance of the bus in the picture is absolutely terrible. I would suspect that this idea emerged from the engineering department where considerations of painting costs rather than presentational image took precedence.
Roger Cox
22/06/16 – 06:38
Bus sounds of old certainly stick in your mind. We had Regent V’s in Rochdale but they were of a special breed. Fitted with Gardner engines and preselector gearboxes they used to bark their way up Drake Street and then at the top would give that characteristic little jump forward as the driver pressed the gearchange pedal to change up. No screaming or whining from these beauties. And oh that livery!
Philip Halstead
22/06/16 – 06:39
With all due respect to the old-timers (being one myself!) I think your remarks about steering technicians is unnecessarily harsh. With the volume of traffic on the roads and the abysmal driving standards generally anything to make the drivers job easier is to be applauded. Would you like to drive a bus with a crash gearbox on todays roads while collecting fares and dealing with the idiots on the roads and the moaning “t’wearlies” at every stop and behind you not to mention the drunken yobs on lates? I thought not. I have never driven an automatic bus in my life (and very few semi-automatics), but if I were city bus driving today I would be grateful to have either !
Malcolm Hirst
22/06/16 – 06:40
At Reading Buses on Friday during a break on the 2016 Royal Blue Run one of the female technical apprentices asked what the long lever with the ball on top was for ie gearlever-she was being serious!
Roger Burdett
22/06/16 – 09:39
Malcolm I know exactly what you mean about today’s road and service conditions and nowadays you are right. As one who had to suffer many new fangled fully automatic systems in the 1960s/70s though I have to say that several of these were violent in behaviour and in certain circumstances downright dangerous. Take for example the first batch of 33 foot Fleetlines of LCT which incorporated a “kick down” facility – the very title says it all. Upon approaching a roundabout if you wished to change down you had to slam the accelerator pedal to the floor whereupon the infant electronics should have selected a lower gear. this failed more often than it worked and so, aided by the legendary torque of the Gardner engine, you were propelled towards the hazard at speed in top gear, or which ever ratio had been too high as you “kicked down.” On the other hand, and to be fair, all the modern systems leave me breathless with admiration as they “read” the road situation with incredible precision and change up and down imperceptively. The only exception in my experience were the dreadful Leyland Lynxes in which the ZF gearboxes regularly malfunctioned and “missed” third and other gears, causing the Cummins engines to scream to full revs in neutral and before your could ease off the gear would then engage with a violent thud – causing universal loud condemnation from the victims within “They’ve some rough drivers on this firm, we don’t know where they get them from.” The same could and did occur as you braked smoothly and the ZF decided to change down in a similar fierce manner, resulting in “Oooh this fella’s ‘evvy on his brakes” from within. Speaking now admittedly with “forked tongue” I have to say that as an enthusiast I would gladly enjoy a live gearbox on urban service work, but I realise that’s an exceptional view.
Chris Youhill
22/06/16 – 14:47
Interesting use of the word “Kickdown”. In automatic cars the kickdown was to engage a lower gear but for acceleration rather than deceleration.
John Lomas
22/06/16 – 14:48
I seem to have kicked over the ant-hill! I was not intending to denigrate today’s bus and coach drivers, for most of them do a fine job with the equipment they are given. As Chris says, some vehicles in the not too distant past have been dire in the way they have changed gear. First in Southampton have some Volvo double deckers (W801 series) which sound as if they are desperate for a gearchange, but I’m told that it’s actually the cooling fans . . . I used to work for Southampton City Council on the traffic management side, and was the only one in the team who had ever driven a bus (though not on public service). Even my manager hadn’t. I took advantage of an invitation in the booking office window of the old Hants & Dorset Bus Station in Southampton – it was Hampshire Bus by then: “If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to drive a bus, pay us £10 and have a trial hour.” It was a Lodekka trainer of the EMR…D series, crash gearbox, so double declutch every move, and a big stick. At least it gave me some idea of what the bus driver had to contend with. With reference to Roger Burdett’s comment, I was once told about two coach drivers who had been sent to collect a pair of new vehicles. I believe they were Neoplan Skyliners. The drivers inspected the exteriors and then had a quick look inside. They were appalled by what they found, and there then followed an urgent call to office. “We can’t drive these, boss. We’re only licensed for two pedals and a wrist-flicker, but these have three pedals and a big stick! HELP!” At least the ‘wrist-flicker’ is more like a real gearchange than the three buttons I mentioned.
Pete Davies
23/06/16 – 08:53
Too true Pete – when the first “buttons” Olympian was delivered to SYRT my heart sank and my fears intensified when we were taken out on “familiarisation” runs and I found that the Company had fitted a plate over the original “1, 2 and 3” buttons taking away any emergency control from the driver. My immediate protest about legality (in which I was eventually proved wrong it seems) encourages this unbelievably fatuous sneer from the uninformed senior fitter that “We’ve blanked them off to prevent you mad drivers from thrashing it in lower gears.” I still after 28 years cannot believe I heard that. When I took my objections to the General Manager I was told “Oh well if you don’t like it, take a screwdriver with you and remove the plate while you’re driving”, to which I politely replied that I supposed that I should then be sacked for interfering with the bus. So it was that the famous 107 “TWY 7”, which should of course have had an E *** *** number, leapt and jerked its misbehaved ZF way along, often in the wrong gear, especially in heavy urban traffic. The same “Company Luddite” treatment was afflicted upon the next two Olympians also. I retired in 2001 and I can’t for certain remember now, but possibly the offending plates were removed from the gear buttons eventually. I’m talking now of course about the earliest versions of the “button” method and as I’ve said elsewhere the modern gearboxes are intelligent and faultless to a commendable and amazing degree, so credit where its due. To my traditional standards though, the buttons always reminded me of the “long, medium and short” wavelength buttons on old radio sets, rather than anything automobile.
Chris, the ZF box, if properly maintained, was probably the best of the earlier auto systems in double deckers, though the Allison in single decks was OK. The sequence of torque converters with lock up at each stage effectively gave five gears, and the hold down buttons for the intermediate stages allowed some measure of driver control to considerable advantage. The policy you mention of plating over these buttons was stupid and insulting. If neglected, the ZF box could certainly behave in the wayward manner you describe, with thumping, rough changes at illogical speeds, but this was definitely a maintenance issue. Some of the Viscount (i.e. Cambus) Olympians of the Peterborough area displayed these symptoms, but in regular driving one did get to sense that the thing was about to change gear upwards, and easing the accelerator at that point alleviated the bang. Slowing down was another matter, and nothing could be done to minimise the savage lurch and thump of the lower gear engagement. By contrast, the Olympians at Huntingdon & District were better maintained, and the ZF gearboxes there behaved entirely properly. To my mind the worst of the earlier bus autos was the three speed Voith box that Stagecoach specified in the Volvo Olympian. With these, the engine had to be taken up to screaming full revs before the thing would change up, and, on slowing down, the lower gear would lurch in again at ridiculously high road speeds. When the bus was held in gear for more than a few seconds, such as when waiting to enter a roundabout, the Voith automatically engaged neutral, so that, when the accelerator was depressed to move off, the engine would speed up a bit before the gearbox engaged with a lurch. Several valuable seconds would thus be lost in trying to get the bus going again, and coupled with the miserable low speed torque of the Volvo engine, moving off could be decidedly sluggish and hairy in some circumstances. At Peterborough, the southern exit from Queensgate Bus Station is on a rising gradient into a fast, busy roundabout, and these Volvo Olympians were hopeless at getting out. Similar nightmares would be experienced re-entering the A1 traffic from village side roads, pulling into the A605 at Elton, crossing the A47 at Wansford……… I won’t go on. The Voith may have been simple and easier to maintain, but it was hopeless on the road. At Ramsey, our ZF Gardner Olympians would just about run for two days on one fill up. The replacement Voith Volvos had to be refuelled twice in one day. Yes, the modern transmissions do seem to behave better, but I retired (thankfully) in 2006, so I don’t have any practical driving experience with them.
Lancaster City Transport 1961 Leyland Titan PD3/6 East Lancs H41/32F
At Local Government Reorganisation in 1974, Lancaster merged with Morecambe & Heysham to form a ‘new’ Lancaster City Transport. The operator found itself short of modern, serviceable, vehicles and some were acquired from Maidstone Borough, some from what had become Burnley & Pendle, one from Merthyr Tydfil, and there was even a Seddon (ex Demonstrator) which has appeared on these pages already. LHG 537 is one of the Burnley contingent, a Titan PD3/6 with East Lancs H73F body, dating from 1961. In this view, she is climbing the hill of Great John Street, towards Lancaster Town Hall, on the 2 to Hala. It is 20 May 1975 and she is still in the Burnley arrangement of maroon and cream – not a great deal different from the Lancaster arrangement – with fleetname in Tilling style.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
16/07/16 – 05:30
Lancaster also bought a lowbridge Atlantean from Trent and a number of ex Salford ones from GMTPTE In addition an ex Wallace Arnold Leyland Leopard was bought from Fishwick.
Chris Hough
16/07/16 – 17:16
Pete is quite correct when he says that the enlarged Lancaster undertaking was short of modern vehicles, much of the fleet comprising ageing AEC Regents at Morecambe. What is quite amusing though is that the “modern” fleet additions he mentions comprised of a variety of buses built between 1957 and 1961, so on arriving around 1974 were somewhat long in the tooth themselves! The one depicted – and its sisters – were never used as OPO buses in Lancaster and nor were they in Burnley. However, the window to the left and behind the driver appears to have been modified, presumably for the purpose of OPO – and I note the unusual position of the mirror underneath the second ‘A’ of the destination, presumably to give the driver a view of the lower saloon/platform area with a view to being used single-manned.
Dave Towers
18/07/16 – 06:56
This batch of PD3’s had the front bulkhead window arrangement from new. It was a common arrangement on early forward entrance double deckers to allow drivers to see the platform and communicate with the conductor but OPO of double deckers was at that time a long way off becoming legal. The arrangement was tidied up on later designs with the whole front window being angled to avoid the two-piece window. After this it became less noticeable.
Western Scottish Motor Traction Co. Limited 1961 Leyland Titan PD3A/3 Alexander L35/32RD
RCS 382 is a Leyland Titan PD3A/3 with Alexander L67RD body, new to Western in 1961. It was still owned by Western when the 2012 PSVC list was prepared, but with the ‘Stagecoach’ fleet number of 19982 instead of her original. In this view, on Middle Walk, Blackpool, on 29 September 1985, It was taking part in the Tramway Centenary celebrations.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
02/01/17 – 07:45
Only my opinion, but I think they looked better when the wheels were red. That said, was there ever a better turned out large fleet than that of Western?
Rossendale Transport 1966 Leyland Titan PD3/4 East Lancs H41/32F
XTF 98D is a Leyland Titan PD3/4 with East Lancs H73F body, new to Haslingden Corporation in September 1966. Two years later, Haslingden and Rawtenstall combined their fleets to form Rossendale Transport, in which guise we see it here. It is taking part in the King Alfred running day in Winchester on 1 January 2006. It is behind the Bus Station.
Here is a closer shot of the fleetname.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
12/02/17 – 09:11
Think the vehicle is now in Oxford area working for an operator.
Roger Burdett
13/02/17 – 07:05
Thanks, Roger. I think that, when I took the photos, she was with Quantock.
Pete Davies
13/02/17 – 15:07
XTF 98D was last known with The School Bus Company (Oxford) Ltd of Kingston Bagpuize.
John Wakefield
16/02/17 – 16:01
Kingston Bagpuize … now how is THAT pronounced? The “Kingston Bag-” part is (I hope!) straightforward, but after that? When I first saw it (on a map or a road sign), I had an attack of franglais and rhymed it with squeeze, but I think I’ve heard it rhymed with views. It would, of course, be delightful if the word is actually pronounced like … a certain saggy old cloth cat?
Graham Woods
17/02/17 – 06:23
Graham, according to Wikipedia (not always reliable) the pronunciation of (Kingston) Bagpuize is “bag-pews” – but I didn’t know either until your question prompted me to look it up just now!
Stephen Ford
17/02/17 – 06:26
Graham: I live only 5 miles from Kingston Bagpuize, and although jokey versions such as “bagpipes” are sometimes heard, the current pronunciation is as you’ve heard it—to rhyme with “views”. It seems that Ralph de Bachepuze came over from Bacquepuis (pronounced roughly “back-pwee”) in Normandy to settle in north Berkshire, so your attack of franglais was quite in order. Southmoor, adjoining Kingston, is fortunate enough to have the half-hourly 66 Swindon-to-Oxford service, but other nearby villages—Appleton, Fifield, Hinton Waldrist, Longworth and so on—have recently lost their bus service altogether and are therefore playing their patriotic part (at least according to George Osborne’s strange logic) in reducing the “drain” on public finances which decent public transport is said to represent.
Ian Thompson
17/02/17 – 06:27
Bagpuss, I believe.
Chris Hebbron
18/02/17 – 06:53
Thanks, Stephen and Ian, and yes, Chris, that is the cat that I had in mind.
Graham Woods
25/01/19 – 07:06
I used to drive XTF 98D on weddings etc. for Nostalgia Travel (Oxford). A very fine looking vehicle. NT sorted some issues with its injectors and made it run well – but, unfortunately, they had to re-trim the downstairs seats with PVC to replace the worn blue leather covers. Also, they removed the Rossendale name from its sides. Compared to NT’s Gardner engined Bristol FLF, the Leyland Titan cab was much noisier. Its Leyland O.600 sounded well enough at idle but, crikey, what an ear-bending racket when accelerating up to its 38MPH maximum! The scales tipped back firmly into the Titan’s favour when considering the two gearboxes, however.
Ade B
13/08/22 – 05:34
This bus passed me on the A4074 near Benson, Oxon today (12/8/22). Looked like it was on hire – for a wedding?
Ribble Motor Services 1962 Leyland Titan PD3/5 Metro-Cammell FH41/31F
In 1956 the UK maximum legal length for double deck buses was extended to 30 ft, and Leyland quickly responded with the PD3 chassis, essentially an elongated version of the PD2. Ribble ordered a fleet of 105 synchromesh gearbox PD3/4 machines distinguished by handsome Burlingham FH41/31F bodywork featuring a neatly designed full width front end. These entered service in 1958, but Ribble then tried its hand with the then very new and novel Leyland Atlantean design, taking 100 examples in 1959/60. All operators of the early Atlantean experienced a number of teething troubles, and Ribble, while continuing to favour the Atlantean for future orders, hedged its bets by partially returning to the more dependable PD3 for some of its 1961-63 deliveries. The bodywork was again FH41/31F, but this time of the aesthetically less appealing (to my eye, anyway) Orion style by Metro-Cammell . These later machines, which totalled 131 in number, were equipped with pneumocyclic gearboxes, making them type PD3/5. No.1775, RCK 920 was delivered in 1962 and operated in the Liverpool/Bootle and Carlisle localities until its withdrawal in 1981, when it was subsequently acquired for preservation. At some time in the years following, 1775’s pneumocyclic gearbox failed and was replaced by a synchromesh unit, but, when, in 2010, the vehicle passed into the hands of its current owners, the Ribble Vehicle Preservation Trust, the pneumocyclic box was repaired and refitted, bringing the bus back up to its original condition. In the picture above, 1775 is seen at the Wansford, Cambridgeshire, premises of the Nene Valley Railway on 8 July 2006 where I encountered it entirely unexpectedly. A YouTube video of a ride on this bus may be found here:- at this link
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
22/08/17 – 06:32
Although rather plain I always thought these were quite attractive vehicles. The proportions seem to sit right and the livery suits the lines of the bodywork very well. Dignified is the way I would sum it up which is more than can be said for the horrors seen on most modern vehicles.
Philip Halstead
22/08/17 – 06:33
The change away to a synchro box was done when owned by Gerald Boden (who owned a B1+Class 40). From my memory he chose to do it as it would have been cheaper to repair the semi auto.
Roger Burdett
23/08/17 – 06:17
The almost only one-coloured livery hardly favours the body shape, Philip. I can see an improvement in Southdown livery. Oops, it must be the sort-of Queen Mary shape that reminded me of that!
Chris Hebbron
25/08/17 – 06:52
I wondered if Roger Cox or Roger Burdett can shed any light on the original gearboxes (or their flywheels) that were at first originally fitted to these Ribble PD3’s (and for that matter the fully fronted Bolton PD3’s). When new, at idle there was a most musical tinny mechanical sound that soon disappeared once power was applied, I think they had a mechanical flywheel then. Bolton and later Ribble soon changed them to the fluid flywheel, which I understand gave a better service life – but no music! Hope someone in the ‘know’ might be able to offer enlightenment.
Mike Norris
25/08/17 – 09:36
I believe you are referring to the centrifugal clutch which I suspect was intended to be more efficient than a fluid flywheel. I only had very limited experience of it on a Bolton bus and simply remember an awful racket when the bus was in idle, not something I would describe as music at all.
David Beilby
25/08/17 – 09:37
Cannot shed any light except to speculate it was a body vibration due to harmonics. Maybe someone from Ribble Group can enlighten if the switch back to a stick box has re-introduced the sound
Roger Burdett
25/08/17 – 09:38
I think that “jingling noise” was symptomatic of a centrifugal clutch, which was an attempt to provide a degree of automatic change, but without the drag and therefore fuel consumption penalty of a fluid flywheel.However I could be wrong.
James Freeman
26/08/17 – 07:13
I’ve noticed in several posts reference to ‘synchromesh’ gearboxes (as above) but am I right in thinking that they were only synchromesh on third and fourth gears? On every Southdown Leopard and Queen Mary I drove that was the format but may have differed elsewhere?
Nick Turner
26/08/17 – 07:14
This page seems to confirm that these Titans were initially fitted with centrifugal clutches:- www.flickr.com/photos/ Several operators tried out the centrifugal coupling to improve fuel consumption – the fluid flywheel could never attain 100% drive efficiency – but transmission snatch and maintenance problems meant that the fluid flywheel reigned supreme until the arrival on the psv scene of the multi stage torque converter gearbox.
Roger Cox
26/08/17 – 07:14
The Wigan PD3’s which were pneumo-cyclic also made this noise. Wigan went back to manual gearboxes for their later PD2’s so perhaps there was some dissatisfaction with the semi-auto transmission.
Philip Halstead
27/08/17 – 07:01
I seem to recall there was another stage of development when centrifugal shoes were included in the fluid flywheel so that it locked up at a suitable speed. I can’t recall technical details of the Ribble/MCW PD3 but know they seemed to perform very well up to the bitter end of TMO in Merseyside. PS> The Captcha code for this post is PD3A!
Geoff Pullin
27/08/17 – 07:02
The PD2 was initially supplied with the GB63 four speed gearbox that had synchromesh on second, third and top, bottom gear being simply constant mesh. Unfortunately the second gear synchro set up gave some trouble in that engagement was often strongly baulked. Geoffrey Hilditch records examples of the resistance to engagement being so severe that gear levers were snapped off by the over enthusiastic pressures being applied by desperate drivers. Leyland then offered the GB83 box in which the second gear synchromesh was eliminated, and this continued to be available after the second gear synchro problems of the CB63 box were sorted out. All the PD2/PD3 buses I drove in Halifax had synchro on second gear.
Roger Cox
29/08/17 – 06:38
For those who like classic liveries like this, there’s news from Arriva. Their new universal bus livery is a simple Bradford blue, it seems: not clear to me how many extra bits or brandings can be added or where, but others may have more intimate knowledge. It does look if all the fussy skirts and linings may have gone, but what about the odd flash? After First, this is a relief!
Joe
22/07/18 – 06:20
To confirm what has been discussed about the PD3’s with the semi-auto g/box the Fleet nos starting with 1700 were all fitted with the Centrifugal Clutch and the fleet nos starting with 1800 were all fitted with the Fluid Flywheel. The Centrifugal Clutch used to rattle when the engine was on tickover as the toggles and pins were worn, as when they were new they used to whine until the clutch engaged.
Bradford Corporation 1969 Leyland PD3A/12 Alexander H41/29F
After its five year AEC Regent V phase (a subject that has generated polarised opinions and been discussed in depth and at length on OBP) Bradford Corporation seemed to cast all thoughts of standardisation to the winds by embarking upon a spending policy that encompassed front and rear engined vehicle types from Leyland and Daimler. Seen in April 1970, against the emerging stark, Stalinist skyline of 1960s Bradford, is No.307, LAK 307G, a Leyland PD3A/12 of April 1969 with Alexander H41/29F bodywork. Behind it is Leyland PDR1/3 Atlantean No.295, LAK 295G with MCW H43/31F body delivered a few months earlier in December 1968.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
26/08/19 – 07:01
Great picture. When did Leyland discontinue the St Helen’s type front as all the very late PD3s I remember (Stockport and Ramsbottom) had the exposed radiator? I’ve actually started to like 60s architecture a bit in recent years BTW, it does have a stark kind of character, or maybe it’s just because the latest trends of shapeless grey and glass boxes are even worse!
David Pomfret
28/08/19 – 07:00
I don’t think Leyland ever discontinued the St Helens front on PD2/PD3 Titans. It was down to operator choice, and Leyland continued to offer exposed radiators as an option to the St Helens front until the end of all PD2/PD3 construction.
Michael Hampton
28/08/19 – 07:01
The St Helens front was not discontinued. Both it and the exposed radiator were offered as alternatives right to the end. If the dates on buslistsontheweb.co.uk are correct, the Bradford PD3s were delivered after the final Stockport ones, as were three Darwen PD2s, also with St Helens fronts.
Peter Williamson
28/08/19 – 07:02
I think both the fibreglass St Helens front and the exposed radiator format continued until the end of PD3 production in 1969 David. Some organisations preferred the exposed radiator arrangement, as it made engine access easier.
BCK 367C started life as FRN 740 a 1954 PD2/10 with a Leyland H32/29R body which has been rebuilt to a PD3 format. She now resides in the North West Museum of Road Transport in St Helens, but was in need of some attention when I saw her during the summer. She has retained the Leyland outline to her bodywork, though some of the panels may have been relocated in the conversion and others have been added in order to lengthen her. Some visitors to the site may be thinking, “This isn’t in Preston!” Correct. She’s a long way from home, on Itchen Bridge in Southampton. The occasion was a rally to celebrate Southampton Corporation Transport Centenary, and the date was 6 May 1979. The ‘Union Flag on wheels’ following her is an Ipswich Fleetline in overall advertising livery.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
09/10/12 – 18:02
There were three distinctive types of conversions carried out by Preston between 1959 and 1967. Eight 7’6″ PD2/10s were converted and all bore the Preston devised chassis designation of PD3/6 – a designation that Leyland Motors accepted. All eight vehicles received new PD3 chassis frames, Forward entrances replaced rear platforms and much of the original outline and coachwork was retained. Between 1959 and 1963 four lowbridge bodies were converted. “The Leyland Bus” suggests that they were converted to highbridge layout at the same time as the road under the railway bridge that had necessitated their purchase had been lowered. In 1963 two highbridge vehicles were converted followed by two more, one in 1965 as illustrated above and a final conversion in 1967. The last two were widened to 8′. The classic Colin Bailey body outline is unmistakable – the only jarring note being the insertion of the short bay immediately behind the first window on the top deck rather than amidships. The original bodies had the more attractive version of Leyland’s final double deck design with recessed window pans and radiused corners top and bottom which were retained and which make the bus look as modern as anything else produced in the 1960s. Preston thus ended up with the only 7’6″ PD3s, the only forward entrance Leyland double deck bodies and the only 30′ Leyland double deck bodies.
Phil Blinkhorn
09/10/12 – 18:05
I submitted a view of DRN 308 in “more or less” original form, as a companion to this, seen while on training duties in Fleetwood in 1975. Unfortunately, Peter found it too dark to be used.
Pete Davies
10/10/12 – 09:40
I believe that Dreadnought Coaches of Alnwick has one. I once saw it in the dark returning from Wedding duties.
Philip Carlton
10/10/12 – 09:41
I wonder what one of the 7’6″ PD3s would have looked like with a St. Helens style PD3A front on as these were 7’6″ wide and most body builders had to taper the front of their 8ft wide bodies to accommodate them.
Eric Bawden
10/10/12 – 12:08
An interesting prospect, Eric, which would have qualified this class for an additional “unique” feature over those Phil B mentions above!
Pete Davies
10/10/12 – 12:09
Eric, A quick look through “The Leyland Bus” photos of St Helens front vehicles shows that some, rather than most, bodybuilders tapered their front to fit. The more traditional builders (such as Massey) only offered a taper but with other builders the width was at the discretion of the operator.
Phil Blinkhorn
11/10/12 – 07:31
I remember the Southampton Centenary Weekend in May 1979 very well. I was working at Derby City Transport at the time and myself and the late Gerald Truran, the Chief Engineer, (and Author of ‘Brown Bombers’ the History of Neath and Cardiff Luxury Coaches) entered Derby’s Foden Double Decker Fleet No. 101 in the event. Sorry but the Foden does not qualify for this site. The drive down was slow but uneventful until just before Winchester when she started giving cause for concern. Don’t ask me what, it is a long time ago and I am no mechanic. So a detour was made off the A34 in to Sutton Scotney where a visit was made to the long gone Taylor’s Coaches premises. The staff and management were most accommodating as is usually the case when Bus men need help from other Bus men, and a repair was made (NO charge) and we were soon on our way. One thing I remember about the visit was an old Bedford lurking in one of the many buildings. I made inquiries and was told it was a Bedford with a Plaxton Consort body and had come from Comfy Coaches of Farnham. Unfortunately, and much to my regret, I never took a photograph but I have found an image of it at this link. By the way, we did not win anything at the Rally but it was a great weekend, and the trip back was uneventful.
Stephen Howarth
11/10/12 – 08:58
With regard to Stephen’s visit to Sutton Scotney, Taylor’s had their Bedford OB HAA 874 in this same rally. It must have been a rare outing for her, as she was using the company’s trade plate.
Pete Davies
14/10/12 – 08:00
This is the ex Preston 2 (PRN 761) rebuild currently with Dreadnaught Coaches of Alnwick, referred to by Philip Carlton. It is seen at their depot in June of this year, on a typical (!) summer’s day.
Bob Gell
21/05/14 – 12:29
The PD2 version of No.61 was H30/28R when new. It was reseated to H32/29R in 11/1958 as part of a rolling programme to increase the seating capacity on all the PD2/10s. All four highbridge conversions were done to the same width of 8ft. There were no 7ft 6ins wide conversions. The four lowbridge buses were increased in height fom 13ft 6ins to 14ft 2ins. As previously said they were used alongside the lowbridge PD1s on the Ashton A service which passed under the height/width restricted railway bridge on Fylde Road. The road surface was lowered in 1957 thereafter permitting highbridge buses to pass underneath in the centre of the road.
Mike Rhodes
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
05/09/14 – 07:30
I was the owner and driver of 61 on the Southampton Centenary event, having driven it down from Somerset through Dorset and via zig-zag hill ! Lovely to see this picture, and it shows what good condition the bus was in at that time. Unfortunately it now languishes in the N W Transport Museum in St’Helens, looking rather unloved – no-one seems interested in it anymore, despite my offers to help fund its restoration. Any other Preston fans out there who would be keen to see it restored ? If so, leave a name and e-mail address, please.
Nick Sommer
Your email address will not be posted on site to avoid spammers, but I will pass it on to Nick.
