Douglas Corporation 1947 AEC Regent III O961/2 Northern Counties H30/26R
A nice shot of a very early AEC Regent III taken on the Isle of Man about 1964/5. The Northern Counties bodywork that Douglas Corporation seemed to favour is quite obvious by the front upper deck. An interesting bit of information I came up with whilst researching Douglas Corporation was from Peter Goulds very informative website was that buses which operated within the borough boundary did not require road tax, if the route took it outside the boundary then it did. Needless to say they only had enough buses taxed to do the necessary routes and the letters “EA” which stood for “Extended Area” accompanied the fleet number. With a change of rules in 1964 no Douglas Corporation bus needed road tax to operate. Now I know that the Isle of Man had and still have there own rules and regulations, but it got me thinking what the regulations were for the rest of the UK with regards road tax, MOTs and insurance. If you know please leave a comment
16/11/15 – 10:22
Something I have noticed but has not been commented on or explained is that DCT 56-59 (HMN 687-690) delivered in 1947, 60-63 (JMN 724-727) delivered in 1948 and 64-65 (KMN 835-836) delivered in 1949 had consecutive chassis and body numbers and were virtually identical, whereas the rest of the 1949 delivery, 66-71 (KMN 837-842) had much higher batches of chassis and body numbers, and were significantly different in outward appearance (gasket glazed indicators) and internal layout (one fewer seat on lower deck to create more luggage space). Was a batch of 10 chassis sent to Northern Counties in 1947, and when were the later deliveries bodied?
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Potteries Motor Traction 1952 AEC Regent III 9613A Northern Counties H32/26R
This is a rather nice looking Northern Counties bodied Regent III the front of the upper deck looks a bit Massey-ish but the flared skirt just adds that little extra touch. PMT had a very varied fleet one reason for this was that when they took over a rival operator they absorbed their vehicles into their own fleet. In 1951 PMT took over five companies and 150 vehicles I do not think that REH 500 fleet number H500 was one of them. REH 500 was a Daimler CLG5 I have not come across many of those in my researching, mind you, they only had the one, the L by the way stood for lightweight. With regards Daimler and PMT they were the largest operator of the Roadliner having almost seventy of them, but that is another sad story which should really be told with a photo of a PMT Roadliner above it, unfortunately I do not have one.
A full list of Regent III and Daimler codes can be seen here.
For Daimler CLG5 see my comment under the heading of Manchester Daimler NNB 231. PMT’s REH 500 was one of the two prototypes. It also carried the prototype MCW Orion body and appeared at the 1952 Commercial Motor Show.
Peter Williamson
I also seem to recollect that PMT had the first 30′ Orion on a PD3 – which was unique in having six short bays (of same size as on 27′ models) rather than the standard five longer bays.
David Oldfield
These were a splendid vehicle they gave a nice comfortable ride and were quite quick I have driven this vehicle and also been a conductor on this vehicle.
Michael Crofts
This vehicle was one of a batch of twelve, ordered in 1951 jointly by two independents, Stoke Motors and Thomas Tilstone with a view to a merger of the two businesses. It is written that this prospect alarmed PMT so much that they made a more than generous offer to the proprietors, hence a batch of Regents delivered to a fleet not known hitherto for AEC purchases, although they became common later with Reliances.
Chris Barker
Also worthy of note the AEC Regents above had the air cleaner from the engine attached by pipe work to the upper saloon which is why the front window pillar is so thick and this kept the air in the saloon clear of cigarette smoke, the ceiling looked like a crib board.
Western SMT AEC Regent III 9612E Northern Counties L27/26R
Western SMT took fifty-eight of these handsome preselector Regent III’s with Northern Counties lowbridge bodies between 1947 and 1950, being registered BSD 401 to 458, Strangely, BSD 441 of 1949 never entered service with them and was immediately sold to the independent York Bros. of Northampton. The rest of them continued with WSMT until withdrawal between 1962 and 1965. BSD 454 had survived a further seven years or so with an unidentified owner until being sold to North’s, the dealer, of Sherburn-in-Elmet – in whose yard it is seen here awaiting its final fate in the Summer of 1970. It would be interesting to know why BSD 441 was sold without being used – does anybody know?
Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer
02/12/13 – 16:13
“an unidentified owner” could be some sort of contractor, using the vehicle for staff transport, if the markings on the offside are any guide. Is that a Weymann coach body behind her?
Pete Davies
02/12/13 – 16:51
Looks like a Fanfare to me, Hawkeye…..
David Oldfield
03/12/13 – 06:21
At a rough guess it is probably a Yorkshire Woollen Fanfare.
Philip Carlton
03/12/13 – 06:22
I don’t know why BSD 441 was sold unused. But I do know that 6 further buses were diverted to Hants & Dorset on the south coast. They were very non-standard for this company, but lived out a reasonably full service life. They were numbered 1213-1218, and registered JEL 752-757 in Bournemouth, as would be expected for H&D stock at that time. I believe that this transfer was at the instruction of the BTC, as both H&D’s parent, the Tilling Group, and Western SMT’s parent SBG had recently been nationalised. Presumably a Whitehall boffin felt that such a transfer made sense…?? They were fitted with Tilling-style destination screens, although not so deep as the normal standard.
Michael Hampton
03/12/13 – 07:51
‘Bus Lists On The Web’ gives Western 548 as having had the registration BCS 453 rather than BSD 453. Conversely, Western 394, the last of a batch of 22 Northern Counties bodied Daimler CVA6s, is given as BSD 453, whereas the previous 21 are shown BCS 429/31-3/5-41/3-52. There is a pic on the net of 548 displaying the registration BCS 453, when with subsequent operator Laycock of Barnoldswick. Almost as strange as the ‘BSD 441’ enigma.
David Call
03/12/13 – 07:51
The single decker on the right of the picture looks to be a Lancashire United Guy UF with Weymann Hermes body, one of six delivered in 1954. The front of these bodies was different to the standard Hermes body having a curve to lower windscreen line to match previous Atkinson Alphas with bodies by Northern Counties, Roe and Willowbrook but being different in detail around the cab windows.
Phil Blinkhorn
04/12/13 – 07:16
Concur with you on the LUT UF, it was my thought straight away on seeing first sight.
Mike Norris
04/12/13 – 12:11
I didn’t record the details of the other vehicles in the photo, but can confirm that the one on the right is an ex-LUT WTB-reg Arab LUF. There were others of the batch at North’s on that day, I have another photo which includes WTB 71. The bus to the left is one of several ex-WYRCC LS’s, and in the background an ex-YWD Fanfare, of which there were others.
John Stringer
05/06/20 – 08:07
Can anyone tell me what became of 473 (BSD 436) from this batch? I have a feeling it ended up in Ireland.
Douglas Corporation 1939 AEC Regent I Northern Counties H27/25R
The AEC Regent I first appeared at the 1929 Olympia show it was more or less a cut down version of the six wheeled AEC Renown. AEC coded the early Regents chassis 661 has it had a 6 cylinder 6.1 litre petrol engine, it was 1935 when the code changed to 0661 the “O” stood for oil because it was then when a 7.7 litre oil (diesel) engine became available. The chassis number for the above bus is O6615965 and it was withdrawn from service with Douglas Corporation in 1967 that is 28 years of service not many buses can boast that.
Douglas Corporation had four Regent 1 buses delivered between 1937-39 numbered 47-50 only no 50 had the diesel engine the others were petrol, not sure if any were later re-engined with a diesel units. And another thing, about no 50 lasting 28 years, about 60% of Douglas Corporation buses were laid up apart for the tourist season when they were needed, so it stands to reason they would last longer.
Spencer
18/10/11 – 05:40
You can hardly call the Regent I a “cut-down Renown”, since it preceded the Renown as model 661, the Renown being the 663. J.G. Rackham, the designer, never made any secret of the fact that he thought six-wheel buses were an archaic idea, and he only produced the Renown to keep London General happy. Incidentally, the main argument in favour of the six-wheel bus was originally that it provided room for another set of brake drums, in the period when mechanical brakes on a steering axle were still beyond the chassis designers and stopping power with rear-wheel brakes only on a two axle bus was marginal to say the least! LGOC Renowns, with 60 seats, offered no more capacity than the STL, some of which were also built as 60-seaters.
David Jones
23/10/11 – 11:40
Sorry for delay in answering your comment David. As I was not around in 1929 (although there’s time when I feel as if I could have been) I must have found the information from either the web or in a book well it was one of my books “Buses and Trolleybuses 1919 – 1945” by David Kaye.
I quote the opening paragraph for the AEC Regent entry.
“Thirty-nine years is a long time for a model to keep going, but that is the time gap between the appearance of the Regent Mark I at the 1929 Olympia Show and the continued production of the Regent Mark V in 1968. Needless to say there is little in common between the two extremes, but it has been a long tale of evolution. This 4 wheeled double-deck chassis was originally called the 661 model and had a wheelbase of 15ft 6½ins., its engine was new 6 cylinder AEC 6·1 litre unit, and in most respects it was really a smaller form of the Renown 6 wheeler.”
And here the first line for the Renown entry.
“In 1929 AEC introduced the 6 wheeled Renown model 663”
Both new 1929 eh, so was the Regent a cut down Renown or was the Renown an extended Regent?
Peter
02/12/12 – 10:55
This is from a book about Manx buses as I wasn’t around for much bar the last few years of the following buses lives. ‘Douglas Corporations pre-war AEC Regents were 41-50. 41-44 were type 661 and kept their petrol engines, 45-49 were also 661s but received 7.7 diesels from ex London Transport STLs in the mid-1950s. 50 and all subsequent Douglas buses had diesel engines except for some post-war Bedford OWBs.’
Paul Mason
03/12/12 – 14:08
I’m sure Douglas 50 was preserved when withdrawn and came to England and was registered something like SMU 222F. It was kept in Huddersfield for a while but I don’t know its whereabouts now.
Eric Bawden
03/12/12 – 16:30
The late Brian Crowther, proprietor of Black Prince Coaches, Morley, bought No. 50 in 1968 reputedly for £30 and shipping to Liverpool was £100. It was registered SWU 222F and rallied for a while before sale to Roy Marshall. According to the PSV Circle Preserved Buses 2006, it was then back at Douglas with ‘Jennings’ as owner and recorded as being DMN 650 again. If anyone has the 2012 edition, perhaps they can confirm whether it has moved on again.
John Darwent
04/12/12 – 07:10
As to which came first, the 661 or the 663, Alan Townsin’s book “Blue Triangle” gives the date of completion of the prototype Regent as 13th February 1929. The second prototype Regent was delivered to the National Omnibus and Transport Company in Colchester on 12th April 1929. However, the very first Renown 663 to be supplied to the LGOC was licensed in August 1929. G.J.Rackham was not a devotee of the six wheeled bus concept, and it is probable that his initial ideas were focused upon the two axle Regent, though the emergence of the Renown at a date so closely behind that of the Regent means that the two designs must have progressed more or less simultaneously. Also, the chassis of the Renown was not quite an extended Regent. Whilst being virtually identical with the Regent at the front end, the Renown chassis widened out more at the rear to accept the fitment of single tyres on the bogie.
Back on the subject of the Douglas Regents, here are two shots of No.50 taken on London – Brighton HCVC Rallies. The first picture was taken at Marine Parade, Brighton in May 1969, and the second shows it at South Croydon en route to Brighton in May 1972.
Roger Cox
04/12/12 – 11:44
I wasn’t far out with my SMU rather than SWU. On the subject of three axle buses, in general were both rear axles driven or just one? I seem to think Huddersfields BUT trolleys had both axles driven.
Eric Bawden
04/12/12 – 16:54
Preserved buses can be found on the Classic Manx Buses website. No. 50 appears under year 1939 www.skylineaviation.co.uk/
John Darwent
05/12/12 – 07:33
It was usual for both rear axles to be driven on three axle buses and trolleybuses. The driven axles incorporated a ‘third’ differential (incorporated in the leading differential) to balance the drive between the two driven axles and to alleviate the stresses that led to broken half shafts etc.(Karrier, didn’t initially incorporate the ‘third’ differential with the resultant failures of half shafts). Leyland built a number of three axle Tigers pre 1940, some of which had both rear axles driven and some of which had the third axle not driven – described as trailing. This was reflected in the designations such as Tiger TS7D (for both axles driven) and Tiger TS7T (for a trailing third axle). As a boy I was fascinated by watching the rear axles of Nottingham’s BUT 9641T trolleybuses turning at the tight service 43 turning circle at Trent Bridge. The nearside wheel on the third axle was almost at at standstill during the turn – the third differential doing its ‘stuff’.
Michael Elliott
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
16/11/15 – 10:10
Despite the ‘O’ on its chassis number, DCT 50, like its 9 predecessors entered service with a petrol engine. I can vouch for this, having travelled on it in the in the 1940’s. It would appear that its chassis had been around for some time before Douglas acquired it, as its chassis number is lower than that of number 49 delivered a year earlier. DCT did not operate diesels until the arrival of Daimler CWA Utilities 51-53 in 1945 (just after I had started school). Number 50 was re-equipped with a secondhand diesel engine in the 1950’s along with numbers 46-49. It is now back in the Isle of Man awaiting restoration. Full details were recorded by the late Mike Goodwyn in ‘Manx Transport Review’, whose research at source corrected this and several other several misconceptions.
