…of vehicles pre-1970
Copyright Roger Cox
This shot is from the Roger Cox gallery contribution titled “Halifax Coaches” click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments.
The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
As it is Sunday again it is another coach, this time an Halifax Corporation AEC Reliance, this coach was bought from Holloway Coaches of Scunthorpe in 1965. But it was delivered new to Bourne & Balmer of Croydon in 1954 I presume they were the only two owners before Halifax. When this coach entered service it was numbered 260 but at the time of this photo it was fleet number 200 so the date of this shot is late 1966 or early 1967 as it was renumbered 256 and rebodied by Plaxton to a C41F in 1967.
The double decker next to this coach by the way is a 1948 Leyland Titan PD2/1 with a Leyland H30/26R body.
The PD2 alongside became Oldham 467 in 1965.
Keith Jackson
The following is from the August 1965 edition of “Buses Illustrated”.
AEC Reliance MBY 347 was originally owned by Bourne & Balmer Croydon later used by Timpsons the owners of Bourne & Balmer and latterly owned by Holloway Coaches of Scunthorpe.
Trevor
It was actually bought to provide seats for a duel purpose conversion project, I think it cost £300. Having been in an accident on Standedge or somewhere equally difficult it returned to the body shop at Halifax and was evaluated and they decided it could be reinstated. Surely one of the best bargains EVER, it ran years on contracts, tours, private hires and was rebodied later, good bus, I travelled many miles on it.
Christopher
Photographer unknown : if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Here is a rather nice looking coach which Halifax Corporation acquired in 1966. According to one source of information Halifax acquired it from Timpson of London but according to another source it was originally delivered to Bourne & Balmer of Croydon. Was this coach 2nd or 3rd hand at Halifax if you know please leave a comment. I did actually go on this coach to somewhere but I can’t remember where, but I seem to think that the two front roof windows were tinted a very dark orange.
09/09/11 – 07:08
A little detective work reveals that Bourne & Balmer ceased trading independently on 1st Jan 1960, and either then or later became part of the Timpson operation. So it seems that both sources are correct.
In 1967 261 was renumbered 257 and then almost immediately 258. It was rebodied by Plaxton in 1968, and in that form passed to Calderdale JOC in 1971 and to West Yorkshire PTE in 1974.
Peter Williamson
11/09/11 – 07:40
Timpsons acquired Bourne & Balmer in 1960, which probably explains the confusion.
NRK 350 was new to Bourne & Balmer in April 1955, passed to Timpsons, and was sold to Halifax JOC in February 1966. Fitted with a new Plaxton body in 1968, passed to West Yorkshire PTE, sold May 1975.
Michael Wadman
03/10/11 – 07:22
Timpson’s acquired the business of Bourne and Balmer (Croydon) Ltd on 17 November 1953, but retained it as a subsidiary until April 1960, when it was closed down and the fleet absorbed into the main Timpson’s fleet. During those years, new coaches were added to the Bourne and Balmer fleet from time to time, NRK 350 being one such vehicle. Even after 1960, Timpson’s continued to paint some of their coaches in Bourne and Balmer livery, with Bourne and Balmer fleetnames, until around 1970. Thus, NRK 350 was new to Bourne and Balmer when it was a Timpson’s subsidiary, and passed into Timpson’s ownership upon the closure of Bourne and Balmer in 1960. It retained Bourne and Balmer livery until the end of 1964.
Dave Williamson
03/10/11 – 11:47
Along with other similar Reliances this bus was given a new Plaxton Panorama body, in his book Steel Wheels and Rubber Tyres Geof Hilditch says that MBY 347 an AEC Reliance bought as an accident victim for £275 Halifax rebuilt it and it was rebodied for £3000 truly a bargain.
Chris Hough
03/01/14 – 08:10
NRK 350 languished after withdrawal in the quarry scrapyard of Bingley Autospares for around nine years from withdrawal in 1975 to 1984 when it was finally broken up. It was surrounded in the yard by other Halifax Titans and Leopard saloons plus Leeds Regent Vs and PD3s.
Anon
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Not the best of shots, depot shots very rarely are especially if shooting towards a window. But I think it is worth it as these vehicles were owned by another of the many independents operating in the Doncaster area mainly serving the mining industry. At one particular time T Severn & Sons were one of five operators based in the small village of Stainforth, just shows how big the mining industry was in that area. But I will not dwell on the history as apart from the usual Peter Gould website there are two other sites I have found dealing with the Doncaster independents I have put links to them below.
T Severn purchased two of these Reliances PYG 605 and 606 new in 1956, one interesting thing I found out from their fleet list was that 606 was withdrawn in 1963 but 605 stayed on until being withdrawn in 1970. I somehow cannot see the early withdrawal due to vehicle deteriorating so I presume it was because of the increase in passenger numbers and vehicles with an higher capacity were required. The reason I came to that conclusion is that in the 1963/4 period Severns acquired two new and three second hand double deckers, one of them ex London Transport RT331 as well as two coaches. One of the new vehicles is in the above shot, new in 1964 BWW 654B a Leyland Titan PD3/4 with a Roe front entrance body, this vehicle passed onto SYPTE in March 1979 and was numbered 1156 in their fleet.
Here are the two links for the history of the Doncaster independents as the links are rather long I have made things easy so there is one here and another one here.
Full lists of Reliance and Titan codes can be seen here.
I think these two vehicles were always ‘dual purpose’, having seats with headrests, but were delivered in plain green/cream livery with straight mouldings. This was altered some time later to the style shown, possibly because neighbour Felix had a Reliance later on with V moulding on the front and Severn had to keep up! As to why one vehicle lasted 7 years longer than the other, we can only guess but Severn’s did odd things sometimes such as going to the trouble of having a PD1 re-bodied, then selling it only three years later, also buying a Bristol K5G into a fleet which had by then virtually standardised on the Leyland O600 in it’s double deckers.
Chris Barker
18/01/12 – 06:47
I believe PYG 606 came to Mowbrays, South Moor, part of the Diamond syndicate, I have photographs of this one in service on the Stanley/Durham service, I drove part time in 1961/63? but never drove this one.
Jim Taylor
This AEC Reliance of Chiltern Queens is seen outside Reading General Station on 9 September 1981. I don’t know anything about her, but I suspect she came from Aldershot & District. I’m sure someone will advise.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
24/09/15 – 06:07
Yes, this is one of the batch of fifteen such vehicles delivered to Aldershot & District in 1963, though the first one, 466 FCG, was displayed at the 1962 Earls Court Show. A&D always had a small engine policy, and these 36ft long coaches had the 7.685 litre AH470 engine driving through the Thornycroft designed six speed constant mesh gearbox. The correct chassis designation for these vehicles is 4MU4RA. Despite their modest power, these coaches were nice to drive provided one took the trouble to treat the gearbox with respect. In 1966 came a further batch of five 49 seat Reliance coaches of very similar appearance, though this time the bodies were built by Weymann, and the 6MU3RA chassis employed the then new 8.2 litre AH505 engine driving through the AEC five speed synchromesh gearbox. The picture shows the last of the earlier batch, 480 FCG, in a dark green and cream livery, leading 467 FCG through Farnborough on an excursion to Hampton Court in 1969. This must have been a hot day as both vehicles are in motion with the doors open, a practice that was then, as now, illegal.
Roger Cox
24/09/15 – 16:17
Thank you, Roger. It has always puzzled me a bit that Chiltern Queens, as with a number of other operators, had completely different liveries for buses and coaches, rather than the ‘reversed’ style. Their choice, of course!
Pete Davies
24/09/15 – 16:18
I’m sure Roger Cox knows a lot more than me about these things, but was it illegal to have the doors open while in motion? Some London Transport RFs had no doors while plenty of rear entrance deckers had either no doors or had manually operated ones that were rarely closed especially on town services.
Nigel Turner
24/09/15 – 16:19
Roger’s comment about the legality of running with doors open highlights the sometimes absurdity of UK legislation when one considers that the Metropolitan Police for years banned doors on another type of front entrance single decker – LT’s Central area RFs
Phil Blinkhorn
25/09/15 – 06:30
Comparing the two photos in this thread, someone had done a great deal of work changing the trim and the window vents.
Phil Blinkhorn
25/09/15 – 06:30
These have a passing resemblance to some Roe bodied Reliances of at around the same time although they were 30ft dual entrance examples.
The Metropolitan Police were a very conservative outfit being reluctant to sanction pneumatic tyres covered tops and even cab doors!
Chris Hough
26/09/15 – 06:00
On the question of doors on buses, the regulation seems to have been that, if fitted, these had to be closed when vehicles were in motion. This then raises the matter of conductor/hand operated doors at the rear of double deckers so fitted, which were regularly seen open in service owing to the impracticability of the conductor being able to operate them at every stop. In real life, the rules seem to have been enforced as much by each company’s disciplinary system as by the law. In London, the Metropolitan Police were always reactionary in their non acceptance of new engineering technology. To the list given by other contributors may be added four wheel brakes.
Phil has raised an interesting point about the greatly modified trim and fittings worn by the Chiltern Queens machine. A&D were very fond of Auster windows as seen on the Reliances in their original form, but replacing these with sliding vents would not have been a major task. The bodywork is another matter, however, and one wonders why anyone would go to such trouble. Not only have the trim lines been repositioned and the bumper removed, but the headlamps have been repositioned also. Unless this vehicle suffered front end damage necessitating a rebuild at some point in its life, the whole exercise must have been of decidedly dubious cost effectiveness.
Roger Cox
27/09/15 – 05:48
Looking around on Flickr the history of 474 FCG is confusing. It ran originally with headlamps as delivered to Aldershot and District but was later rebuilt as Roger noted and seen above. In the early shots the ventilators have all been replaced but in at least one later shot it had managed to acquire one of the Auster vents back. They also had 478 FCG (at least) which had the headlamp modification too, but on which only half the ventilators were replaced. It’s worth noting that both had their original coach seating replaced by bus seating.
David Beilby
27/09/15 – 05:49
If you look at the photo of the Chiltern Queens vehicle carefully, you will see that it has also been fitted with two piece power doors. The front dash appears to be a replacement of the original. I am therefore wondering if A&D (or AV) did in fact carry out the modifications themselves, when the vehicle was downgraded from coach work?
Ironically, the Captcha code I had to enter here included the letters “DP”!
Nigel Frampton
28/09/15 – 07:02
Initially, I thought that the 4MU3RA chassis designation in the heading was an error, as this batch of coaches were delivered to A&D as the 4MU4RA type. However, given the extensive alterations subsequently made, I wonder if the Thornycroft six speed constant mesh gearbox in 474 FCG might have been replaced with the five speed AEC synchromesh box, which would have been much easier to use on normal bus work.
Roger Cox
29/09/15 – 07:02
Looking through Buses magazine April 1975, under Alder Valley it was reported that “AEC Reliance 338 (474 FCG) a 1963 vehicle with Park Royal DP49F bodywork has been sold to Chiltern Queens, Woodcote”. Buses magazine also records further ‘FCG’ withdrawals in 1976: 336 (472 FCG) with C49F bodywork, which went to the Transport and Road Research Laboratory (TRRL), Crowthorne; 337/8 (473/80) also reported as C49F; fire-damaged 370 (466 FCG) which was recorded as being DP49F. It would appear that some of the batch were converted at some point to dual-purpose vehicles, which may explain the revised trim on 474 FCG. However, on Flickr ‘hivemind’ there are two photos which show 474 FCG operating for Chiltern Queens with and without folding doors. Unfortunately they are both offside shots, but no folding doors are visible on the black and white photo, whereas they are on the colour view. So it would appear that the powered door conversion, and probably the bus seats conversion, were carried out while the Reliance was with Chiltern Queens. Unless as the saying goes “someone knows otherwise!”.
Reliance 474 FCG can be viewed at this link:
//flickrhivemind.net/Tags/474fcg,parkroyal/Interesting
Brendan Smith
03/10/15 – 13:37
On the question of the legality of leaving doors open while the bus was in motion, I have no idea. The LT Central area RFs were without doors and I was working in the PSV section of the Metropolitan Traffic Area in 1963 or 1964 when a call came through saying that a passenger had been killed alighting from an RF while the bus was moving. At that time, it was common for many, usually male, passengers to jump off as the bus was coming to a stop. That was OK with rear entrance and forward entrance vehicles, but the front entrance RF was turning left at the time and the front nearside wheel was sticking out and caught the poor man before the driver could stop. Horrible! I only hope it was quick.
David Wragg
07/10/15 – 06:29
This might be something on which Chris Youhill could comment: in response to complaints about poor ventilation/over-heating in Leeds’s (fixed/panoramic-windowed) 33ft “Jumbos”/”Tommy Lord Boxes” the GM, Tom Lord, informed the “Evening Post” that in hot weather drivers would be allowed to run with the front doors open . . . a stiff reprimand from the Traffic Commissioner’s Office followed.
Philip Rushworth
07/10/15 – 15:49
Talking about poor ventilation, last year I travelled on a new Blackpool tram. It was May and not an unduly warm day, but the tram was uncomfortably warm and I noticed the conductors were in shirts//blouses. When I remarked that aircon would have been useful, especially as it was electrically driven, they said that the drivers’ cabs were going to be fitted with it, but not the passenger compartments!
Chris Hebbron
08/10/15 – 07:20
That’s quite correct, Mr Hebbron – the passengers don’t matter to most operators. After all, they only keep the firm going and pay the wages!
Pete Davies
09/10/15 – 07:24
Neither do they care about the conductors, Pete D, who have to work on the trams all the time, whereas the passengers do, at least, get on and off!
Chris Hebbron
Photographed late on a summer day in 1966 at Stump Cross, a location very well known to our regular contributor and esteemed authority on Halifax matters, John Stringer, is AEC Reliance BJX 134C, No.134 in the fleet of Hebble Motor Services. The bodywork is by Park Royal, seated as DP39F, and the vehicle is seen in typically rugged terrain en route from Halifax to Cleckheaton. Those days of pre political correctness are reflected in the legend “One Man Operation” displayed in the destination box. This Reliance was the last of a batch of four, BJX 131-134, Nos. 131-134 delivered to Hebble in July/August 1965. The National Bus company took control of the BET bus empire in 1968, and, in the following year, management of Hebble (together with Yorkshire Woollen) passed to West Riding at Wakefield. The subsequent reallocation of services between these companies then saw Hebble expand to twice its BET size, but in 1971 the situation was turned entirely on its head when (to the delight of a certain Geoffrey Hilditch) NBC passed the Hebble business over to the Halifax Joint Omnibus Committee. Of the four Reliances 131-134 (renumbered 666-669 by Hebble in 1970) only the last (shown pictured above) entered the Halifax JOC fleet as No.320 in March 1971, when the bodywork configuration had become B43F, though whether this was inherited as such or was a JOC conversion I know not. I am sure our OBP experts will supply the answer. The 2MU4RA version of the Reliance had the AH470 engine coupled with the Thornycroft six speed constant mesh gearbox which demanded proper respect in use (I drove the Aldershot & District examples so I speak from experience). As far as I can establish, 320 would then have been the only constant mesh gearbox bus in the Halifax fleet since the expulsion of the last Nimbus, a type that was almost (I loved ‘em and drove them at every opportunity) universally detested by the driving staff. I bet 320 was not popular to say the least.
A truly comprehensive and lively discussion about the final years of the Hebble company may be found on OBP at this link.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
26/06/17 – 07:24
Interesting looking lorry passing in the opposite direction. The square stepped wheel arch reminds me of a Guy Warrior. Can anybody identify it?
David Hargraves
27/06/17 – 07:04
Thank’s Roger, I’ve never been esteemed before !
The problems you suggest may have occurred at Halifax with the arrival of 134 (latterly 669 under the YWD-based scheme) into a synchromesh and semi-automatic fleet did not happen.
Towards the end of 134’s time with Hebble one of their Plaxton Panorama-bodied Reliance coaches with synchromesh gearbox (either 20 or 21) suffered a gearbox failure in the Cheltenham area whilst working an outbound journey on the South West Clipper. A changeover (presumably by Black & White) was provided – not exactly a unique occurrence – to continue the rest of the journey to Paignton but no assistance was forthcoming regarding a repair (probably because it was happening too often). Consequently a Hebble mechanic and apprentice were instructed to grab the first Reliance that returned to depot, remove its gearbox, shoot off down to Cheltenham with it in the service van (a very hard worked vehicle) and swap the boxes over in time for their coach to change over the loaned coach on its way back. They then returned to Halifax with the defective box and it was duly ‘repaired’ (probably after a fashion). Then being in a constant state of vehicle shortage there was no time to bother getting the right boxes back into the right vehicles, so 134 received the repaired synchromesh box and retained it for the rest of its days, the coach retaining the constant mesh one.
![0025037cejR1OBP[2]](https://old-bus-photos.nwframpton.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/0025037cejR1OBP2.jpg "0025037cejR1OBP[2]")
As a result BJX 134C arrived at Halifax JOC (as 320) thus equipped, being no different to their other Reliances. Due to the strange Hebble trim layout it received a most unusual interpretation of the Halifax DP livery, starting out like a DP at the front and ending up in service bus livery at the rear. Here it is seen entering St. James Road prior to turning into the Cross Field Bus Station, Halifax sometime in late 1971. Please forgive the dreadfully out-of-focus shot but it is the only one I ever took of it in this livery.
![0034022cejR1OBP[2]](https://old-bus-photos.nwframpton.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/0034022cejR1OBP2.jpg "0034022cejR1OBP[2]")
Not long afterwards it was refurbished as a service bus with bus seating, its racks and luggage boot removed and repainted into normal bus livery. It passed into WYPTE ownership in 1974 becoming 3320 but never received PTE livery, being sold for scrap soon afterwards. This second photo shows it passing along Towngate, Northowram in the Spring of 1973.
John Stringer
27/06/17 – 09:10
Thanks, John. I knew that you would come up with the comprehensive answers – an esteemed authority indeed. You confirm that the conversion to bus seating was a Halifax exercise. Circumstances certainly acted in the favour of this vehicle where the gearbox was concerned. I suppose that is why only this one out of of the batch of four was accepted by GGH. Had it retained its original Thornycroft box in Halifax service I am sure that the gear changes would have been heard right across the West Riding – anything with a crash/constant mesh box was an anathema to the Halifax drivers.
Turning to David’s enquiry, I can see the resemblance to the Guy front end, but nothing I can find matches it exactly. Pantechnicons were often built closely to operators’ requirements so you could well be right. I will send a closer view if the front end to Peter to help with identification.
Roger Cox
05/07/17 – 06:25
Could the body on the pantechnicon be by Marsden/Vanplan.
Stephen Bloomfield
15/11/19 – 07:29
The lorry looks very much like one of George Pickersgills Removals, Harold Long from Henry Long Transport Bradford owned them for a while.
Mr Anon
The Regent V was in production from 1954 until 1968 there was a prototype Regent IV which had an underfloor engine but there was not much interest so it never went into production. According to research the only difference between the Regent III chassis and the Regent V was that the latter’s rear springs were ½ inch wider.
There was two differences though the first being the obvious cosmetic one of the introduction of the AEC wide-bonnet front end with the more square traditional AEC radiator. The former exposed radiator style was still available until 1960 and quite a lot were built that way.
The second but not so obvious was the direct selection epicyclic gearbox to replace the preselective gearbox of the earlier Regents, although about 100 were built with preselect gearboxes for a few operators, the normal clutch and synchromesh was also available.
Engine wise the Regent V had the usual AEC 7·7 and 9·6 engines and in 1966 a 11·3 litre version became available, for some reason in 1955-56 the Gardner 5LW or 6LW was available no 5LW were built but a few operators took some 6LWs.
A full list of Regent V codes can be seen here.
This vehicle was subsequently acquired by Provincial in 1970, becoming their no.80. It was one of seven purchased, the others being 970/2/5-7 CWL.
Stephen Didymus
05/08/19 – 07:14
May I respectfully correct a detail in your Regent V Chassis code panel?
The ‘D’ is always for ‘Double-Deck’. So MD3RV is Medium/ Double-deck/ Synchro box/ RHD/ Vacuum brakes. ‘D’ is NOT part of ‘Medium’!
Barry Hitchcox
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
As there has been a recent article about A Mayne & Sons on the “Articles” page I thought this shot was appropriate. Here we have a rear entrance Regent V working its way through the busy streets of Manchester. It is fairly obvious to say the least, that it had a Park Royal body the top deck is very Bridgemaster. Maynes had three of these Regent Vs registrations 6972-4 ND all delivered in December 1961.
A full list of Regent V codes can be seen here.
2D3RA Regent Vs were 30ft long, most 27 footers were 2MD3RA (etc). LD3RAs were the original 30 footers with the earlier Regent III type A208 engine – as were the D3RVs of (for instance) Sheffield and Liverpool.
The series 2 models were brought in on the introduction of the wet-liner AV590 engine (AH590 in the Reliance). Some confusion arose, initially, when some were known as 2LD3RA models but eventually all became known as 2D3RA.
Similar confusion arose with later Reliances with 8U3ZR (coil springs) and 9U3ZR (12 metres) models eventually giving way to 6U3ZR for all variations and lengths of the 691 and 760 Reliances.
We can blame BET for the Bridgemaster ugliness of these, and the East Kent, Regent Vs.
David Oldfield
Regent V Mk 1: D and MD were 27ft long, LD was 30ft.
Regent V Mk 2: 2MD was 27ft long, 2D could be either 27ft or 30ft.
Maynes were 30ft, as indicated by the seating capacity.
Peter Williamson
There’s no doubt about it, Mayne’s was (and is) a fascinating operator, worthy of interest but, I feel, very under reported through the years, in fact I don’t recall seeing pictures of any of their vehicles before the Regent V’s. It would be nice to see a fleet history also.
Chris Barker
Venture Publications produced a well illustrated history of Maynes a few years ago which also contained an abridged fleet history. Don’t know if there are any left, but it might be worth trying their retail arm’s website (mdsbooksales). If not the book is widely available on stalls at rallies etc as a second-hand item. Hope this helps.
Neville Mercer
08/06/14 – 14:17
Talking about AEC Regent Vs, their designations, lengths, and capacities, I have a query which I have posted elsewhere, but, up to now, drawn a blank.
Garelochhead Coach Services purchased six Regent Vs new, plus, I think, a second hand one later. The ones purchased new were of type MD3RV or 2MD3RA, i.e. 27-footers with the smaller engine. All are recorded as having been 64 or 65 seaters, apart from the penultimate one, 49 (DSN 657D), which has always been recorded as a 73 seater. In photographs it looks to have been the same size as all the other Garelochhead Regent Vs, and the only suggestion that there was anything different about it comes from the body number, which apparently had an ‘A’ suffix. Can anyone explain?
David Call
In 1956 Newcastle took delivery of 20 AEC Regent V’s with Park Royal H34/28R bodies, they were XVK 137 to XVK 156 and were numbered 137/156. The following year another 20 arrived, registered 157 AVK – 176 AVK and numbered 157/176 – 167/176 were the same as the previous batch, but 157/166 were L30/28R low bridge variants specifically bought for the service 5 to Darras Hall and Ponteland via the Airport, but they did venture onto other routes on occasion. I think some of the high bridge vehicles went to OK Motor Services at Bishop Auckland but I do not know if any of the low bridge type were sold on. I’m not a lover of ‘tin fronts’ and much prefer the exposed radiator type, but the AEC versions seem to be a bit less brutal in appearance than some others. The Regent III standing next to 158 is from the same batch as NVK 341 which has been beautifully restored and is now part of the N.E.B.P.T. Ltd collection.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye
A full list of Regent V codes can be seen here.
28/05/12 – 08:17
Aah, now I’m feeling all nostalgic! A wonderful photo of two of my all-time favourite classes of Newcastle bus in Morden Street. The Regent V is, of course, the answer to Dave Lazzari’s recent query in the Q&As section. I liked the highbridge version too but I have happy memories of the lowbridge ones on trips out to the airport on service 5 – happy days! The Regent III has to be the ultimate Newcastle Corporation bus, absolutely stunning! I have vivid memories of travelling on them on the Spital Tongues Circle [service 8] and the 1s and 2s. In those days large numbers of buses and trolleybuses were parked in Morden Street mainly between the peaks.
Alan Hall
29/05/12 – 17:20
I agree the AEC Regent V tin front was the best looking of the lot. It always gave me the impression of a big smiling face. (Been reading too much Thomas the Tank Engine!). The Park Royal body of this era was beautifully well proportioned and blended with the AEC front so well. A total contrast to the later incarnations using Bridgemaster parts which were the absolute pits! (eg Southampton’s examples).
Philip Halstead
30/05/12 – 17:41
Phillip H, you’re being unnecessarily generous by describing the version Southampton had, as the absolute pits. I’ve always regarded them as shoe boxes with holes cut in. It didn’t matter whether the apparition was on a Regent V or on a PD2A, the effect on my eyes was the same.
The Newcastle one illustrated above looks – to me – more like the East Lancs body which Southampton had on most of its Regents, or the standard for the RT. FAR more pleasing to the eye.
Pete Davies
31/05/12 – 08:08
As I’ve said before, just about the ugliest body ever built – based on the front-entrance Bridgemaster and the Atlantean design, or lack of it! The highbridge version of the posted design was one of the best ever – also produced by Roe and Crossley. Obviously the RT and RM bodies were classics, but after that the ACV group lost the plot. Only with the AN68 era body did they regain it.
David Oldfield
31/05/12 – 20:24
Except for a few examples of absolute boxes on wheels built on Park Royal frames Roe built their superb traditionally styled bodywork on front engined chassis until the demise of these as an option. The thirty foot Daimlers and AEC Regents bought by Leeds in the sixties were true examples of the coach builders art Whereas the front entrance bodies on a small batch of rebodied Tiger chassis owned by Yorkshire Traction were perhaps the very nadir of the Roe out put.
Chris Hough
01/06/12 – 07:07
I particularly like this combination of AEC and Park Royal. It’s a very well balanced and good looking vehicle. I can think of Western Welsh and Maidstone and District who took them as well and one or two independents also. Does anyone know of any more?
Chris Barker
01/06/12 – 07:09
The traditional composite Roe body, derived from the original Pullmans, has never been bettered. The last were Daimler CVG6s for Northampton in 1968. The Park Royal framed bodies were as a result of Park Royal needing extra capacity as a result of “too much” work – almost certainly the build of Routemasters from 1962 to 1968.
It was, indeed, a small batch of Tiger rebuilds which had the same appalling body as that at Southampton and Swindon. The 1965 Tracky PD3s had a quite pleasant Roe version of the Park Royal body on a number of Sheffield Regent Vs. These looked a little better than the bodies on East Kent Regent Vs and the front engine Bridgemasters.
David Oldfield
01/06/12 – 10:05
Further to Chris Barker’s comment, the thirty-foot version of this body looked particularly fine. The first pair – exhibited at the 1956 Commercial Motor Show – were for Cottrell’s of Mitcheldean, and a convertible open-topper for Western Welsh. A further batch were supplied to City of Oxford, after which Park Royal switched to the MCW ‘Orion’-inspired box.
I must say though, that despite their well balanced good looks, these bodies were of fairly lightweight aluminium alloy construction and were disappointingly hard riding and bouncy both on Mk. V and PD2 chassis in my experience.
John Stringer
01/06/12 – 15:57
John S..I must confess to no longer being a regular bus user but this week rode on a “58” plate Volvo/Wright double decker and was astonished at how appalling the ride was. Taking a top deck front seat meant I enjoyed a narrow staircase that I nearly fell backwards down because the driver set off with the usual foot to the floor take off then suffered a mix of rolling, swaying and undamped vertical bouncing on the cramped seat. Has the bus industry absolutely no idea whatever about how suspension works? Do they know nothing about adapting spring rates to the vehicle weight, correct damping control, anti roll bars, progressive spring/damper settings to allow a calm ride both when empty or fully loaded? This has been the daily work of the motor industry for decades and is not “magic”. Do any PCV builders ever drive a car..ever wonder how to provide a safe and comfortable ride or is it just an industry of dinosaurs who get a batch of lorry chassis parts, bolt them together on a cheap frame and nail a poor quality body on top hoping it will all come out alright? I apologise for being off thread saying this but John’s experience of Mk.V and PD2 chassis reflected exactly mine..just 55 years later!
Richard Leaman
01/06/12 – 20:41
I recall Maidstone & District’s Park Royal bodied Regent V’s on the 15 route from Hastings to Eastbourne which as John Stringer says were lightweight in build which made the ride quite lively and the performance very brisk. The beautiful balance of the body dimensions combined with the AEC bonnet design, which I always admired, made this combination one of my favourites the fact that they followed M&D’s batch of ugly Orion bodied PD2’s meant they were doubly appreciated. The AV 470 engine fitted to M&D’s had a very rorty exhaust note especially in a confined street which if the revs were taken to the limit made a waffling sound as the governor cut in.
Richard Leaman’s about the ride and lack of comfort of modern vehicles hit one or two sore spots with me as at 6ft 1in tall space is to say the least limited.
Diesel Dave
02/06/12 – 11:51
Four of those Maidstone & District Mk. V’s were surprise temporary additions to the Calderdale J.O.C. fleet in 1972, two highbridge ones operating in Halifax and two lowbridge ones at Todmorden.
By the time I started at Halifax the following year three had already gone, but the last one 362 (VKR 479) was still soldiering on – still in faded M&D livery – but unfortunately was withdrawn just before I passed my PSV.
The AV470 engines left them seriously underpowered for climbing our local mountains, and they were not popular with the drivers – most of whom were not very keen on our own AV590 ones to start with.
Conductors disliked them because of their platform doors, which I believe were not driver-operated probably on safety grounds, and which they had to open and close themselves. Of course according to the rule book it should have been no hardship, because they should have been in attendance on the platform whilst passengers boarded and alighted anyway, but, you know……..! They did make nice exhaust sounds though.
Hebble had four similarly powered short Mk. V’s with Northern Counties bodies new in 1962 which had also really struggled up the same hills and had seemed an ill-advised choice, though they could ‘crack on’ once they got out of Halifax on flatter roads such as on the route to Leeds, but I imagine the M&D ones may have also been higher geared so would have been quite breathless.
John Stringer
02/06/12 – 11:52
Interesting comments from both Diesel Dave and John S on the riding qualities of the Orion and later Park Royal bodies. The M&D Regent Vs were an odd choice – a mere 22 of them, (14 highbridge and 8 lowbridge), sandwiched between 70-odd PD2s and the Atlanteans, which Dave will have come across early in their lives, as they were first introduced at Hastings. The company never bought any other AEC double deckers or Park Royal double deck bodies. Maybe they were influenced by neighbours East Kent? Because the Regent Vs were rare, I cannot comment personally on their riding qualities, my experience of them being limited to a couple of hours driving one, from which I can certainly confirm Dave’s memories of the rorty exhaust note.
On the other hand, the Orion bodies on M&D’s Guy Arab IVs rode very satisfactorily, in my view. Could that have been because of the Guy chassis, or simply the terrain of the Medway towns where they operated? (unlikely, I should have thought). Also, although Dave describes the Orion bodied PD2s as ‘ugly’, I always thought the Arab IVs looked businesslike and smart; perhaps that’s because they were essentially urban vehicles. (There’s a posting of one on this site). It wouldn’t do for all of us to agree on everything, any way, would it?
Roy Burke
03/06/12 – 07:06
Mention of the Maidstone and District Regent Vs reminds me that they had notices in both saloons explaining that the buses were a temporary measure pending the delivery of new buses.
Philip Carlton
03/06/12 – 07:07
Gosh, John, I had no idea that M&D’s Regents found a second life with Calderdale J.O.C. 362 is presumably Calderdale’s number; at M&D, it was DH479. All four of the AECs that went to Calderdale would have been close to the end of their COFs, dating originally from 1956, (and being re-certified for 5 years from 1968), which will be the reason, no doubt, why they didn’t stay long.
Conductor-operated rear doors were pretty much the norm in those days, I think, with provincial operators; the usual practice was for them to be left open in urban areas; conductors busy taking fares – especially upstairs – just wouldn’t have been able to keep opening and closing them at every bus stop. It’s a practice that every Tilling conductor, for example, would have known very well with Bristol Ks and Lodekkas. The draught-saving value of doors over open platforms was primarily felt on those parts of a journey that had longer intervals between stops.
Roy Burke
03/06/12 – 11:14
Roy, the M&D Mk. V’s that came to Calderdale J.O.C. were highbridge 361/362 (VKR 472/479) and lowbridge 363/364 (VKR 36/37), the last two looking very similar to the Newcastle one on the photo. They were acquired in January 1972, 361/3/4 being sold in June the same year, but 362 lasting until early 1973.
The lowbridge pair went to Todmorden, whose depot could only accommodate lowbridge buses, and though as AEC’s they stuck out like a sore thumb in this previously Leyland-dominated town, and the growly exhausts rattled a few windows, the M&D livery looked reasonably at home, being not unlike the former T.J.O.C. colours.
362 even went for further service with Ede (Roselyn Coaches) of Par in Cornwall before travelling all the way back up north to be scrapped by a Barnsley breaker in 1979.
364 was acquired for preservation but was scrapped in 1976.
The Geoffrey Hilditch era at Halifax ensured that both local enthusiasts and employees were always kept entertained !
John Stringer
P.S.
When I say ‘both local enthusiasts’ I don’t mean there were only two of us !
03/06/12 – 19:38
“Both local enthusiasts”! As you say, John, there were decidedly more than that, and, unlike many other senior figures in the bus industry (then and now), and to his everlasting credit, GGH didn’t regard bus enthusiasm as some kind of severe, untreatable mental aberration. He was always receptive to those who shared a genuine and constructive interest in buses.
Roger Cox
04/06/12 – 07:52
The Maidstone & District Mk V’s weren’t the only ones to migrate north. Western Welsh LKG 661 operated for Ideal Service (H. Wray) of Barnsley after disposal by WW, although I imagine Ideal acquired it from one of the Barnsley dealers. I travelled on it once and I wonder if anyone knows what engines the Welsh ones had?
Chris Barker
04/06/12 – 17:19
Thank you, John, for the extra information on the ex-M&D Regents. However, I’m left a little bewildered by the fate of 364, (VKR 37, M&D DL37). Regular correspondent Chris Youhill recalls driving a preserved lowbridge Regent many years after 1976, and from memory, I was sure it was DL37. Is it possible this vehicle did actually make it and was not scrapped after all? If not, which of the 8 lowbridge Regents was preserved? I believe one of the highbridge Regents has been preserved, too, but I don’t know which one.
Your comments, and those of Roger, about the accommodating attitude of Mr Hilditch towards enthusiasts rang a mildly ironic note with me. At M&D, it was emphasised to me that the vehicles were the company’s rolling assets, and that my feelings towards any of them should be based purely on operational criteria. Hence my acquired respect for 6LW engined Guy Arabs, which had the best record of any of M&D’s very varied fleet, and the reservations I developed towards their Atlanteans.
I can’t help, Chris, with information on the engines fitted to Western Welsh’s Regent Vs, but no doubt someone more knowledgeable than I will be able to give the answer. I do remember, however, a lot of them had a shallow concave dent in the rear, caused by them bottoming out on the swichback roads of Carmarthenshire.
Roy Burke
06/06/12 – 07:42
It’s unusual that Maidstone and District, Newcastle and Western Welsh all bought both highbridge and lowbridge versions of this same combination.
Regarding the engines on the Western Welsh examples, I thought the picture was not straightforward and I was correct. The lowbridge variants were on D3RV chassis and had AV590 engines, whilst the highbridge ones were MD3RV chassis with AV470 engines. Some of them lasted from 1956 to 1972 which was a long time by Western Welsh standards.
678 was one of the last and ended up in France, from where it was recovered for preservation a few years ago. It is now in the custody of the Cardiff Transport Preservation Group.
The most interesting disposal was of 671, which after a brief sojourn at Knowsley Safari Park moved to Armstrong, Westerhope and then passed to Tyneside PTE as their 81 in 1973, being withdrawn in 1974. I’ve not seen pictures of it but it would have looked a lot like Newcastle’s if it got repainted!
David Beilby
06/06/12 – 09:44
David, if they were D3RV they had the A218 engine from the Regent III. The Series 2 chassis (e.g. 2D3RA) had the AV590 – the main point of the change to Series 2.
Originally the AV470 “medium weight” Regent V was meant to be the norm. Some operators, however, only wanted heavyweight and insisted on what became the D3RV version. The wet-liner AV590 was not ready, the A218 was available. [Many regret that the AV590 eventually was!]
David Oldfield
11/06/12 – 08:34
David Oldfield is quite right that the A218 engine was far superior to the AV590 at least when fitted in the Regent V being quieter and smoother running I drove both types for Eastbourne Corporation in the 1960’s. Regarding my comments about the MCW Orion being ugly I think depends very much on the livery applied, I was recently looking at photos of Orion bodied PD2’s of Halifax fleet and finding myself admiring them in that wonderful green, orange and cream colour scheme, whilst liking M&D’s livery it didn’t seem to suit the Orion as well as it did the Park Royal or Leyland bodies that preceded them.
Diesel Dave
14/06/12 – 18:14
A very handsome vehicle. I saw one at Theydon Bois running day Sept 2011.
Bill Hogan
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
08/09/12 – 07:21
Further to comments above, another operator of the 30-foot Park Royal body was A Mayne of Manchester www.flickr.com/ These were LD3RAs, so presumably had the A218 engine. Mayne re-ordered from Park Royal and got this: www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/ Is it any wonder they then went to East Lancs?
Peter Williamson
09/09/12 – 07:12
Further to my much earlier posting, here are two views of a rather nice Cottrell’s of Mitcheldean 30 footer.
www.flickr.com/photos/lenmidgham/5266671044/
www.flickr.com/photos/lenmidgham/5266061949/
John Stringer
10/09/12 – 07:21
These vehicles pre-date my arrival in Gloucestershire and are interesting for that fact alone. Cottrell’s always needed ‘big boys’ for their services and the 30-footers fitted the bill. A much lamented operator. Thx, John.
Chris Hebbron
Copyright Ian Wild
After several years of deliveries of rear engined double deckers, Sheffield bought batches of forward entrance for all three fleets in 1963 and 1964. This bus was from the first batch and is seen in May 1967 at the Oughtibridge terminus of service 18. Although four years old by this time, the bus appears to be in its original coat of paint with red lining below the lower blue band and the gold front fleet number.
Brian commented recently on Sheffield Bridgemaster 525 that it was used on the service 7 to Stannington, I think it more likely that the bus(es) he recalls was one of these not dissimilar looking vehicles which were regular performers on that service.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
A full list of Regent V codes can be seen here.
03/09/12 – 06:14
Strange how companies ‘borrow – steal?’ design ideas from each other, I would be hard pushed to spot the difference between some Alexander and MCW bodies, and to me the upper deck on this vehicle could have come straight out of the Orion stable rather than Park Royal
Ronnie Hoye
03/09/12 – 07:50
These were essentially Herries buses for the north of the city – including the bit of the West Riding which would become part of the city after the 1974 Local Government Act became law. The 18 was the Oughtibridge route (on the main Manchester via Flouch Inn corridor) but a favourite haunt for the park Royal regent Vs was the 91/98 Grenoside/Ecclesfield Circular. I thought that 64 – 73 with Weymann bodies were better looking but apparently they suffered from being amongst the last bodies completed at Addlestone and the quality of finish was not up to traditional Weymann standards. Pity, though. These were delivered to East Bank in August 1963 and spent their formative years on the 28/43 group of Herdings routes.
Ian, there is an extant picture of 525 (in Charles Halls’ book) on the 70 to Wombwell – so she did creep north of the city centre.
David Oldfield
04/09/12 – 06:44
Could it also be a BET Standard? BET “asked” PRV to change the original Bridgemaster from Classic PRV style and construction to steel framed “Box on Wheels” that it became. That is when PRV began to look more and more like the Orion.
David Oldfield
04/09/12 – 08:34
A pair of identical Regents ended up with Hebble when the Sheffield C fleet was disbanded in 1970. They always stood out by virtue of their Sheffield style indicators they were then passed to Yorkshire Woollen when Hebble disappeared a year later.
Chris Hough
05/09/12 – 06:50
That was 1150/1151 – and they were joined by some 1962 Atlanteans and the infamous ECW/PD2s.
David Oldfield
05/09/12 – 06:51
And after that, the two of them left Yorkshire for good, ending up with KMB in Hong Kong. They were rebodied with MetSec bodywork, and ended their days in a scrapyard, in the Chinese version of Barnsley!
Dave Careless
05/09/12 – 08:35
PRV and Roe both seemed to take a liking to those rather obvious ventilation extractors on the upper deck around this period – the fact that they weren’t more widely adopted might hint at their usefulness. To me, for some reason (familiarity perhaps?), two fog/spot lights have never looked right on a half-cab: I can only think of AEC fitting two fogs/spots, but did Leyland? – I’m sure I’ve never seen a Daimler or Guy with two. Whatever, to me this bus has a brutal purposefulness about it – a classic in terms of both design and livery.
Philip Rushworth
05/09/12 – 08:36
It’s only my opinion, but my vote for the best looking half cabs ever would go to the Park Royals of about the mid to late 50’s. Southdown had them, Newcastle had both high and low bridge versions on AEC Regent V chassis, Northern General Group had them on Guy Arab IV’s, and a later batch of PD2’s with rear doors. To be fair the Leeds Roe bodied Regent V’s were also a handsome beast, but I prefer the PR’s
Ronnie Hoye
05/09/12 – 08:37
Can you give us any details please, David, of how and when BET ‘asked’ PRV to alter their design and construction?
Roy Burke
06/09/12 – 06:48
Sorry, Ronnie, but my vote always goes to Roe. I will agree with you after that – and don’t forget the COMS Regents with similar PRV bodies.
Roy. Regret that I cannot give documentary details – I do not own the book that contained the information. (It was a paperback about significant prototypes vehicles.) Briefly: Crossley were allocated the task of developing the Bridgemaster and they were also producing a clone of Ronnie’s favourite PRV body at the time. Apart from being extremely attractive, it had, I believe aluminium construction – like the Routemaster. ACV were anxious to attract BET orders, but BET wanted a simple steel-framed construction with single skinned domes – in other words an Orion clone. This was around 1958, when Crossley finally closed down, and production moved to PRV in London. This resulted in the dreadful box-like front-end design of the Bridgemaster (even though initially the rear dome was the same as “standard”) and the same single skinned interior panels (again like early lightweight Orions). I believe there is also passing reference in “The Blue Triangle” (Alan Townsin).
David Oldfield
06/09/12 – 07:19
With respect to the intake of the 1964/56 series of AEC Regent V/Park Royal vehicles I can add a little information on their purchase.
From the early sixties, Sheffield Transport Dept favoured the rear engined double decker, giving up to 78 seats. The general Manager C.T Humpidge, the successor to R.C.Moore from 1961, did favour the traditional front engine design. When the Sheffield Joint Omnibus Committee needed replacement vehicles, Mr Humpidge suggested that the AEC Regent/PRV version would be a cheaper option than the Atlantean or Fleetline.
Keith Beeden
07/09/12 – 07:33
Whilst I agree with David about the aesthetics and quality of traditional Roe body work, I do come down on the side of Ronnie in respect of the Park Royal double deck design of the mid 1950s. The PRV bodied Guy Arab IVs of Southdown – the body style with the deeper windows than the East Kent contemporaries – were, to my eye, the most handsome front engined ‘deckers of all time.
Roger Cox
07/09/12 – 07:34
Mention of C.T.Humpidge reminded me that after retiring from Sheffield Corporation he became The Reverend C.T.Humpidge. There cannot be many bus managers that have done that.
Philip Carlton
07/09/12 – 07:34
Philip’s “brutal purposefulness” description is very good because it really homes in on how Park Royal’s Orion clone differs from the Orion itself. Here’s an Orion for comparison www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/ The front tapers inwards in both an upward and forward direction (something that was taken to horrible extremes on tin-front Leylands), and in this case, though not always, is less perpendicular. Not nearly as brutal, is it?
Peter Williamson
08/09/12 – 07:11
Couldn’t agree more, Peter.
David Oldfield
08/09/12 – 07:12
Mr. J.P. Senior, former General Manager at Burnley, Colne and Nelson, then Assistant GM at Ribble became vicar of Heddon-on-the-Wall, Northumberland.
Eric Bawden
08/09/12 – 07:12
I’ve just discovered that the Park Royal site www.prv.org.uk/ has recently been updated with a large number of images, which are worth taking a look at. Many of them are rear-end views, which is very useful given the variety of rear domes that Park Royal used during this period, which tended to either accentuate or mitigate the box-on-wheels effect.
Peter Williamson
08/09/12 – 07:14
It is the front end perpendicularity (assuming there is such a word!) that I always found distasteful – whether on these, Bridgemasters or indeed front entrance Lodekkas (plus, of course, the original housebrick style Atlanteans). They all looked ungainly, as though they were about to trip over their front wheels and fall flat on their faces in the road! I’ll also earn some flak by saying that I liked the Orion, especially exposed radiator types. Well, having gone so far I may as well wreck what remaining credibility I have by saying I also liked the shape of the Leyland National – though I fully understand its innumerable mechanical shortcomings. Both it and the Orion dared to look like honest to goodness buses instead of space-age adaptations.
Stephen Ford
08/09/12 – 07:15
Philip, pictured elsewhere on this site is a 1959 Roe bodied PD3 Tin front, that also has two fog/spots. I certainly cant remember any other half cabs with more than one, even the twin headlight Green Line RMC’s only had one fog, so it may well be that the practice of fitting two was unique to Sheffield. However, since about 1982 I think, current legislation only allows front fog/spot lights to be fitted in pairs
Ronnie Hoye
09/09/12 – 07:32
The industrial smogs down the Sheffield river valleys could be pretty thick: to get people home in the evening perhaps you needed one for the kerb and one for the white line- or for the conductor walking down the middle of the road!
Joe
09/09/12 – 07:33
I’ve had a look round some of my photos to see whether two foglamps was unusual on half-cabs and I’ve noticed four trends:
No foglights – quite a lot of operators didn’t fit foglights at all. Most of the South Wales operators come into that category, but so do Manchester and Salford.
One foglight – some operators had a single foglight and didn’t modify the buses. Halifax is an example of this. Rhondda’s Regent Vs had a single one to the end although I did find one that had none.
Later fitment of second foglight – Oldham’s tin-front PD2s and exposed-radiator PD3s originally only had a single foglight but were later modified with a second one. The PD3s were so done at their 7-year CoF in 1971.
Always two – some operators always had two, or fitted the second at an early date. Southdown’s Queen Marys had two. Stockport’s fleet of PD2s and PD3s all had two, from the 1958 Crossley-bodied examples onwards. South Yorkshire is another surprising example – even their Bond-bodied PD2s had two. Rotherham’s 1965 Daimler CVG6s had two as well.
David Beilby
12/09/12 – 06:58
I recall these Regents at the small Bridge Street bus station, working services 91/98 to Grenoside as stated, also the 73 and 80 to High Green. They were the last front-engined buses in the Sheffield fleets.
The reference to smog reminds me that some operators had “fog on route” on their blinds. Oldham and Manchester were two, maybe others.
Geoff Kerr
23/11/12 – 16:04
The sound these wonderful buses made was my all-time favourite- with the possible exception of the Bristol RE.These were Sheffield’s only semi-automatic Regents and sounded very different to the other Regents in the fleet. 3150/1, as they were numbered after 1968, were the C fleet pair mentioned above. They were, I understand, bought for the 85 to Gainsborough, but by the time I reached Sheffield in 1969 they were used on city services such as the 150/151 to Shiregreen. This pair had overhead luggage racks downstairs! Hebble, who by January 1970 were in absolutely desperate straits vehicle-wise, grabbed them eagerly when the C fleet passed into NBC ownership on 1 Jan 1970.
Phil Drake
23/11/12 – 16:54
I seem to remember that the parcel racks in 1150/1 were of netting rather than having a solid base, quite unusual for a double decker.
Ian Wild
05/12/12 – 07:28
I always found the second B fleet batch slightly superior to the initial one at this time of year. Those 1368-1377 368-377HWE had fan heaters which didn’t stop when the bus did.
On the subject of Sheffields Half cab fog lights, I only ever remember the 31 forward entrance AEC half cabs having twin fog lamps in their service days, all other half cabs would have just a nearside one.
It was only when the PD3’s in particular were relegated to the ancillary fleet that the second offside ones appeared.
With the exception of the initial Alexander bodied Atlantean 369 all other Sheffield buses received after 1960 would all have twin fog lights
A shot of of ex-Sheffield PD3 909 on SCT61 when 23 with Stevensons fleet still only had the nearside one.
The pre-service shot of 461 at Crossgates only had the one.
Andrew
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
23/12/12 – 17:05
To pick up on Phil’s contribution (23/XI/12) 1150-1/3150-1 were purchased for service 85 Sheffield-Retford-Gainsborough but, according to Alan Hinton’s Omnibus Society pamphlet about this route “neither racks nor vehicles were popular . . . and they rarely reached Retford [sic]”. Partial double-decking of the route had started on 25/VIII/58, those through journeys which were double decked (the frequency was hourly between Sheffield-Retford, but only two-hourly between Retford Gainsborough) required a change to a single-decker at Retford. Initially PD2/Roe 1156-61 were allocated, being fitted with high-backed seats and platform doors. Then around 1960 it appears that “some Roe-bodied AEC Regent Vs from the B fleet were tried . . . but like most AECs they were not popular on this route” – why? In 1962 Leyland Atlantean/Weymann 1163-65 were purchased for the service, having high-backed seats and a “special upper-deck [sic] luggage compartment to accommodate . . . fishing baskets” (why on the upper deck? – to minimise smells??). In 1966 A-fleet Leyland Atlantean/Neepsend of the batch 348-60 took over double-deck operations – presumably C-fleet vehicles worked “A” services to balance the mileage. Until 17/III/68 the service was operated by Townhead Street garage and an outstation at the EMMS garage in Retford: on that date Townhead Street garage closed and Greenland Road garage assumed responsibility for workings using the 1962 C-fleet Atlanteans, now renumbered 3163-5. Single-deck operations were, from 1960, entrusted to the Burlingham and Weymann Fanfare bodied Leyland Leopards, but latterly became the preserve of A-fleet AEC/PRV Swifts – some of which had their seating capacity reduced to provide extra luggage accommodation for the role. Alan Hilton’s pamphlet really is a most fascinating history of this route.
Philip Rushworth