Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1949 AEC Regal III Roe B32R
A Halifax Regal III bus in coach livery of all over cream with an orange waistband, there was no difference whatsoever that I know of between this Regal and one in the usual green orange and cream except the livery. This shot shows very clearly how this vehicle has been converted for one man operation by the layout of the windows to the left of the drivers cab, I think this conversion would have happened at a later date than the rear to front entrance conversion of 1953/4. You can also see the old style pop-up trafficators, one on the waistband in front of the passenger compartment doors and the other just to the bottom left of the drivers windscreen. I doubt if this vehicle would of been converted to flashing indicators before being withdrawn from service with Halifax in 1963.
Converted at the same time I am told
Christopher
13/03/12 – 06:21
If my memory is still up to scratch, the reversed livery denoted OMO when it was first tried out. Much later, a form of reversed livery was used on DP vehicles and coaches, but by that time OMO was universal on single deckers, which had reverted to normal green and orange.
John (tee)
20/09/12 – 06:55
Is it possible to read the wording underneath the Halifax coat of arms? I think the wording is “Halifax Joint Committee”. The legal lettering would have referred to the owner of the vehicle, either Halifax Corporation or, in those days, the Railway Executive. This was a JOC vehicle and the old joint crest which included reference to the two railway companies was obsolete by 1949.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1949 AEC Regal III Roe B32R
Halifax buses seemed to undergo a curious renumbering merry go round from time to time, as if fleet numbers were somehow on ration. The number 258 was a case in point. Here is another Regal III of the 1949 batch, BCP 544, which, like its fellow AJX 848 also on this site, was rebuilt from B32R to B33F in 1953/4. It originally joined the ‘B’ Joint Committee fleet as number 269, but in October 1964 it was transferred to the ‘A’ Corporation fleet as number 99. In the following month it was transferred back again to the ‘B’ fleet with the number 268, but it was then renumbered again as 258, which is the number it carries in this picture. This Regal was the only remaining example of its type when I joined Halifax Passenger Transport as a Traffic Clerk towards the end of 1964, and I drove it from time to time when training for my PSV licence in early 1965. Despite its sixteen years of service, it was a delightful and characterful bus to drive, and carried its age very lightly.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
24/10/12 – 07:58
One thing that has always intrigued me with exposed radiators is the variety of ways people find for keeping them warm. This one’s ‘appendage’ looks quite professional, certainly far better than a bit of old newspaper!
Pete Davies
24/10/12 – 11:15
I was going to refer to these over another recent posting. They seem to suggest that AEC and Leyland engines ran “cold” but did Daimlers D’s ever have them? – because they ran hot, it seems, judging by the supplementary air intake, otherwise known as leaving the bonnet side open and resting on the mudguard. Am I anywhere near, Engineers?
Joe
24/10/12 – 11:30
That’s an interesting observation, Pete. I can’t make out the exact nature of the blind on this vehicle, but, as you say, there were many different approaches. I’ve always been fascinated, for example, with East Yorkshire, which seemed to like placing an aluminium sheet over part of the exposed radiator, although, for reasons I’ve not understood, the actual treatment varied between vehicles, even ones of the same batch. Did the engineers know the fleet so well that they could tailor blinds individually, since although you could raise or lower a flexible blind, an aluminium sheet was a fixed feature?
Roy Burke
24/10/12 – 12:47
What a marvellous sight to see this morning as I land on the OBP Homepage bleary-eyed ! How lucky you were Roger to have driven this delightful bus. Around this time I was still at school, and this last remaining Regal was sometimes used to transport us the relatively short distance to Woodside Swimming Baths if the more usual Nimbus was unavailable. Our local Bus Club hired it in 1965 for a memorable visit to Bolton, Bury and Rochdale Corporations – on which it performed admirably. It was almost regarded as a mascot by the local enthusiasts. Not long afterwards it was sold to local building contractor Pickles for staff transport. HPT repainted the lower panels cream before sale, and it pottered around the locality in an increasing state of decrepitude until finally scrapped. Unfortunately, the framework modifications involved in moving the entrance to the front – cutting out a large piece when there was already a weakness due to the emergency door being directly opposite, and cutting into the front bulkhead to allow for one-man-operation, severely compromised its structural integrity. The uncanny thing about your photo is that aside from the fact that 258 was scrapped forty-odd years ago, it could have been taken this morning. Parked in what is nowadays referred to as 7-Bay at Skircoat Garage, the building is exactly the same – even to having the same shades of paint on the wall, though today it is maybe peeling a bit more.
John Stringer
24/10/12 – 17:48
There was always a timelessness about the old Skircoat Garage, wasn’t there, John. One would have been only mildly surprised to chance across a tram or two, such was the period feel to the place. I wrote to Geoff Hilditch a few years back to send him copies of my small store of Halifax bus pictures, and he very kindly replied in a long letter. One of the things he told me was that the Skircoat depot, along with Elmwood, is facing demolition in the near future. Another piece of treasured transport history seems to be about to vanish. Joe’s comment about hot running engines is interesting. Gardners were always cool runners, which proved to be a bit of a problem when bus heaters became generally adopted. The vast majority of wartime Daimlers had the AEC 7.7 engine, as did the bulk of utility Bristols. Any cooling problems must have been caused by the installation design. Daimler’s own CD6 8.6 litre engine proved to be highly variable in quality between individual examples, the best being satisfactory, but the worst were as bad as the contemporary Crossley HOE7. Installations were probably made to cater for a worst case scenario.
Roger Cox
Leeds exposed radiator buses had both an aluminium plate and a roll down blind attached to it. There were two distinct designs the AEC version covered the radiator from the bottom to just over half way The one used on Titans and Crossleys was around 2-3 feet deep and was positioned mid radiator. These were generally fitted around this time of year and were removed in March/April.
Chris Hough
24/10/12 – 17:49
One of this batch came to Rochdale when I lived there in the early 1960’s to operate for the Social Services Department. If I remember correctly it was fitted with a wheelchair lift. I regret I cannot remember the number of the vehicle but it was painted in Rochdale Corporation’s then new livery of cream with a single blue band. It was a case of what might have been as Rochdale was of course a staunch AEC user but never actually had any post-war single deck half cabs.
Philip Halstead
25/10/12 – 07:14
Isn’t it interesting how some postings generate a lot of comment, sometimes veering off at tangents from tangents from tangents, while other postings generate very little? It’s all part of the fun of taking part in the world of the forum!
Pete Davies
25/10/12 – 07:47
You’ve noticed that as well, Pete.
David Oldfield
25/10/12 – 12:02
Of course it’s unrelated to interest or enthusiasm, for there would be plenty of silent admirers, even with quiet posts. What always intrigues me are the posts which run their course, go silent for ages, then spring into life again! And by some queer quirk, I sometimes find the whole thread passed me by the first time round!
Chris Hebbron
25/10/12 – 12:01
The Regal that went to Rochdale was BCP 543 and it was given the fleet number 500. It said “Welfare Service” in the destination box.
David Beilby
25/10/12 – 12:03
Geoffrey Hilditch is alive and well. I met him the other week on one of his visits to Wigan. He still drives from Torquay and back. He said how much he enjoyed his time at Halifax and wondered if today’s bus managers feel the same, with all the financial pressures. I didn’t know about the garages though – they are still there!
Geoff Kerr
25/10/12 – 16:03
I agree with John and Roger – Skircoat Garage has hardly changed over the intervening years. Enjoy it while you can – word is that the site has been sold to ASDA and the depot will be demolished in the near future
Ian Wild
26/10/12 – 07:34
Hope ASDA realise that they’re going to have ghosts of AEC Regals amongst their frozen ready-meals!
Stephen Ford
26/10/12 – 07:35
Ian. How sad to think that a useful building providing work, skills, training and local employment has to die to build yet another Temple to the £1 bottle of milk. If I lived there I would never step foot inside the place but, just last weekend I bought a new camera from Curry’s/PC World built on the site of the former Winterstoke Road Garage of Bristol Omnibus Company..but not without thought.
Richard Leaman
26/10/12 – 14:16
The same thing happened to the Newcastle Corporation central works at Byker which employed dozens of people with all manor of skills, as well as being a garage they could virtually build a vehicle from scratch. Now it’s a retail park where you can buy all manor of goods, mostly produced in China. I think it comes under the definition of progress.
Ronnie Hoye
27/01/13 – 16:58
Reverting to the comments about radiator blinds/mufflers, one company that was very organised in this respect was Bristol. Their blinds had a white stripe down the middle. At various points on the system – the one I happen to recall was at Bath Bus Station – there was a miniature display of a radiator with blind. This would be set to show the desired blind setting for the day, to match temperature. The white stripe on the blind meant that an inspector could spot from a distance that the driver had set his own blind correctly. The attached view shows buses with two of what appear to have been four different settings. You can just make out in the left hand view the clips to which the upper part of the blind would be attached. It would be interesting to know whether the setting was determined by head office or locally. I can imagine there being considerable temperature variation on the same day between the coast at Weston and the high ridge of the southern Cotswolds.
Alan Murray-Rust
01/06/13 – 15:30
I’m a Bristolian and spent several years working for BOC but never knew that! Remember Winterstoke of course and was quite shocked when I saw it had gone.
Geoff Kerr
03/10/16 – 08:15
Geoff….I pass the site where Winterstoke Road Bus Garage was located just about every day and the line up of retail warehouses is just a terrible replacement for that superb garage. In my mind I see lines of K, L and KSW parked up with a few of those new fangled Lodekka’s! Once upon a long time ago I spent many an hour with my old friend Clive checking fleet numbers and spotting favourites from the safety of the grassed areas just inside the front walls. I do remember the radiator setting sign also mentioned….it is a good 40 plus years ago but have an idea there was one on the back wall of the old Marlborough Street Bus Station..in the garage/parking area…I remember seeing it/them many times and think one might be preserved at the BVBG garage. I will have a look on the next open day.
BCP 543 was originally one of twenty-two AEC Regal III 9621E’s with Roe B32R bodies delivered to the Halifax Corporation and JOC fleets in 1949, and was numbered 268. Fourteen of them, including 268, were rebuilt at Skircoat Road workshops during 1953/54 to B33F layout and with modifications made to the front bulkhead to allow for one-man-operation. These were also for a time repainted into a livery of cream with a single orange band to draw attention to the fact that they were OMO and in connection with them being used for the local Countryside Tours during the summertime and bank holidays, though they were returned to standard bus livery later. Withdrawn in 1964, 268 was sold to the Rochdale Corporation Welfare Department who rebuilt it with a rear tail-lift for the transport of disabled people and numbered it 500. They renumbered it 900 in 1970, and it was withdrawn and sold for scrap in 1972. Though Roe’s teak body framing always had an enviable reputation for strength and longevity, when Halifax Corporation had carried out its modifications, the cutting of an aperture in the nearside for the forward entrance directly opposite another on the offside for the emergency exit, along with the bulkhead alterations caused a significant weak spot across the bodywork at that point, and the resultant sag in frame stands out quite clearly – particularly in the offside view above. The nine Regals that retained their rear entrances remained sound until the end – which unfortunately came rather early, some going as early as 1958 and the last one in 1962. Lovely little buses.
Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer
21/10/14 – 06:19
Although allocated to the Rochdale Welfare Department this bus received what was then the current Rochdale Corporation bus fleet livery with the exception that the blue band was a lighter shade. This is interesting as when the new predominantly cream Rochdale bus livery was being introduced in the early 1960’s, two vehicles wore this lighter blue band for a very short period before the darker Oxford Blue trim as pioneered on AEC Regent V no.277 was adopted as the new standard. These were Daimler CVG6 no.238 and AEC Regal IV no.12. I seem to recall the light blue only lasted a matter of weeks on these vehicles before the Oxford Blue replaced it. At the time as a schoolboy spotter I was quite excited about this new livery but once it began to replace the streamlined blue and cream across the whole fleet I came to hate it. It was bland and totally impractical for a northern industrial town where the atmosphere in those days was mucky to say the least.
Philip Halstead
22/10/14 – 07:17
The lighter blue was worn by 12 and 238, and also on delivery by new Weymann bodied Reliances 16 – 20 (3116 – 3120 DK). It didn’t last on these, of course. The blue adopted as standard was the same shade of blue as used on the much lamented “streamlined” livery.
Don McKeown
22/10/14 – 17:59
Daimler CVG6 number 238 was always easily identifiable because the rubbers holding the destination blind glasses were painted cream whereas it was usual to mask them over during repaint so they remained black. By the way 16-20 were 2116-2120 DK.
David Slater
15/11/17 – 07:17
Re rad blankets PD2 exposed rads had a plate about one foot deep but full width. It appeared to be in the middle because that was the bottom of the cooling tubes. The lower section of the rad was a dummy. Also with the blanker fitted on the outside there was a 2 to 3 inch gap to the actual tubes which would seriously reduce the warming effect. In effect as the thermostats were pre wax type generally they failed inside a year so the engines always ran cooler than the designed temperature. Even in summer
Keighley – West Yorkshire 1938 Bristol K5G Roe L27/28R
Keighley – West Yorkshire was established as a branch of West Yorkshire Road Car in 1930, if we believe the entry on Wikipedia. CWX 671 was new to KWY in 1938 and is a Bristol K5G, but the bodywork is not what one might expect, being by Roe rather than by ECW, and is to L27/28R layout being rebodied in 1950, it originally did have an ECW L27/26R body. We see her in North Albert Street, on the corner of Kent Street, Fleetwood, arriving to take her place for Tram Sunday on 20 July 2003.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
28/08/15 – 06:56
It was actually 1932 when Keighley Corporation “gave way” into Keighley West Yorkshire Services Ltd. Also, after the April 1954 renumbering, these DGs never had the fleet number on the front dash as shown here. Before the April 1954 renumbering, they DID carry fleet numbers here. These Roe bodies were of exceptional quality and were ordered because ECW were unable to carry out the total rebody requirement for the K class pre war buses. It was part of a wider “ex Tilling Group” exercise with United Automobile also being involved. Wonderful old Bristol buses, and firm favourites of mine as we were blessed with a good allocation at Bradford depot! Thanks Pete for a super memory jogger!
John Whitaker
29/08/15 – 06:53
Thanks, John. I wasn’t aware of her original body details, and I suspect that Peter added this bit from his sources.
Pete Davies
29/08/15 – 06:54
Exceptionally good-looking body, the more so because it’s a low-bridged one, yet don’t obviously look it. The blind display itself is very informative, if not presented well in the photo! Thank goodness the re-build also included the lower PV radiator, otherwise the overall effect would have been greatly diminished!.
Chris Hebbron
01/09/15 – 07:18
As John points out, ECW at the time were at full stretch, with full order books and a backlog developing, hence the rebodying of sixteen of West Yorkshire’s Bristol K5G ‘rehab’ chassis by Roe in 1950. The vehicles concerned were Keighley-West Yorkshire K362/366 (BWY994/998) dating from 1937, and K381-384 (CWX669-672) from 1938. Main fleet vehicles so treated were 385-394 (CWX673-682) from 1939. In the 1954 renumbering K362/366 became KDG16/20, K381-384 became KDG24-27, and 385-394 became DG28-35. When delivered, they were unusual in having the beading edging the cream bands picked out in red, rather than the usual black, and I believe all sixteen retained this feature throughout their WY/KWY lives. A lovely shot of KDG26, and to my eyes bright sunshine always seemed to show the Tilling red at its best. Wonderful.
Brendan Smith
01/09/15 – 07:19
KDG26 was part of a batch of 16 buses supplied with Roe low-bridge bodies in 1950. 10 were owned by the West Yorkshire Road Car Company Ltd and 6 including KDG26 were owned by Keighley-West Yorkshire Services Ltd. My records for 1953 show all the 10 WYRCC buses were allocated to the Bradford depot and this confirms the comments from John W. They were lovely solid buses to ride on and sometimes appeared on the Bradford to Ilkley 63 service which was my home route. I do recall United Automobile having some similar Bristol K5G/Roe re-bodies but I am not sure of the number they had. Can anybody supply more information?
Richard Fieldhouse
01/09/15 – 07:20
More shots of KDG 26 taken at a Gardner Engine Rally held in June 2005 at Castlefield Canal Basin in Manchester. As well as buses the event included lorries, narrowboats and static engines. Anything was welcome as long it had a Gardner engine. It was a very successful event but I am not aware that it was ever repeated although I moved away from the north west shortly after and lost touch with events in that area.
Philip Halstead
02/09/15 – 06:58
The fascinating thing about these Roe rebodied K5Gs is the body profile, which seemed to have more in common with the pre-war ECW bodies carried originally, than the contemporary ECW design! The chassis overhaul was very thorough, including of course, the update to PV2 radiator. I doubt that the original bodies were worn out either, as 5 were transferred to 707-711, the W sanction K6As originally with Strachan utility bodies, later to be K5Gs. Probably the whole exercise was the result of a calculation to maximise the life expectancy, an aim which was well fulfilled! To cover this K rebodying programme, the G type buses mainly remained in service until 1951/2, and what memories they bring back!
PS. !! Just to echo Brendan`s comment about Tilling red! It was a classic livery . If only the modern image was so adorned !!
John Whitaker
02/09/15 – 06:59
Thank you for your thoughts, gents.
Pete Davies
03/09/15 – 07:15
Coincidentally First Leeds have just repainted a Volvo/Gemini double decker into WYRCC Tilling red with single cream band livery (or an approximation of it).
John Stringer
04/09/15 – 07:09
Interesting thought, John. It has to be better than the multiple shades of grey “camouflage” paint job.
Pete Davies
04/09/15 – 07:12
With reference to the comment on West Yorkshire RCC by Richard Fieldhouse, United rebodied 4 prewar buses with Roe lowbridge bodies; LUT1 EHN 617 Bristol K5G 47.088 Roe 3058 L27/28R LUT2 EHN 618 Bristol K5G 47.089 Roe 3062 L27/28R LUT3 EHN 620 Bristol K5G 47.091 Roe 3067 L27/28R LUT4 EHN 621 Bristol K5G 47.092 Roe 3071 L27/28R BGL 17-18,20-21, later BDO 17,18,20 & 21. New in 1939 with ECW 5684/5/7/8 L24/24R series 1 bodies, Rebodied in 1950 as LUT 1-4. EHN 619 was not rebodied. United also bought two new Bristol L5G single deck buses bodied by Roe in 1952; BG 13 PHN 408 Bristol L5G 73.177R Roe ? B35F 1952 BG 14 PHN 409 Bristol L5G 73.178R Roe ? B35F 1952
Ron Mesure
04/09/15 – 07:14
It’s probably not a coincidence that First Leeds have painted a Volvo in Tilling Red since one of the current owners of CWX 671 is a very senior member of management at First Bus. I’ve just been lent some Omnibus Society Magazines dating from 1963 and there was some comment about the fact that this bus had been entered in the London – Brighton run and some people felt it was too modern. I bet nobody would complain if it was entered now.
Nigel Turner
04/09/15 – 07:14
Having seen it at the Sheffield running day last weekend, I don’t think the first bus Gemini is the correct shade of red.
Don McKeown
05/09/15 – 07:11
Many thanks Ron M for the detailed information on the United Bristol K5Gs.
Richard Fieldhouse
05/09/15 – 07:12
It’s a while since a topic has come up on which I can comment. Here are three photographs which I took of Keighley West Yorkshire K5Gs in 1961 and 1963. I grew up in Keighley and used these K5Gs every day because they were the mainstay of the cross town routes.
In this photo of BWY 999 (KDG21) with BWY 994 (KDG16) you can see the difference in them as they are parked side by side in Keighley depot, the ECW body on the left and the Roe on the right.
In this photo showing the entrance to Keighley garage, the ECW bodied CWX 668 (KDG223) is next to the famous CWX 671 (KDG26). This shot was taken in October 1961 on a Sunday morning. The buses are watering up ready for going into service. It’s a pity that we can’t see the fleet number on KDG 26, and that is because it was one of the handful which retained stamped metal number plates. I am not sure of the dates when these plates were fitted to the buses, but they were not very legible and so were replaced by transfers.
The third photo shows KDG26 just 3 months before it was withdrawn and it looks smart even then. The photo was taken 30/9/62.
David Rhodes
06/09/15 – 07:07
oooH! Nice, David, and very atmospheric! Thank you for posting.
Pete Davies
06/09/15 – 07:08
Lovely photos David and thank you for posting. The aluminium fleetnumber plates you mention were introduced in summer 1957. They were applied externally to 52 vehicles, but by the end of the year the idea had been dropped – the plates being difficult to read at a distance, as David points out. West Yorkshire had had two plates produced for every vehicle in the fleet, and it was decided that they would be fitted internally to each vehicle instead, rather than scrapping them altogether. (One was fitted in the cab and the other near the entrance door).
Brendan Smith
06/09/15 – 07:09
Was Ramsden’s “Yorkshire’s Most Popular Beer”? Ramsden’s brewery occupied the site in Halifax currently occupied by the HBoS offices. Tetley’s brewery, of Leeds, purchased Ramsden’s in 1964, the brewery was demolished in 1968 . . . the then Halifax Building Society’s head office rising from the site in 1973. History suggests perhaps that Ramsden’s might have been over-stating their popularity! Advertisements on buses provide a window into other aspects of social history, which I’m starting to appreciate more as I accelerate past middle age.
Philip Rushworth
06/09/15 – 07:10
In response to Philip Halstead, the Gardner Engine Rally is a two-day weekend event which takes place every two years at different locations on the canal network. Unfortunately there are usually few if any PSVs present. Details at //gardnerengineforum.co.uk/Events.html
Peter Williamson
16/11/19 – 13:12
Re the Philip Rushworth comment 06/09/15, advertising claims like “Most popular” or “best” (as in the Nottingham Area “Home Ales are best” probably fell foul of the Trades Description Act, as they are always open to question.
Keighley – West Yorkshire 1950 Bristol K5G Roe L27/28R
This Roe L27/28R Bristol K5G was delivered to Keighley – West Yorkshire (as K383) in April 1950. Over sixty-one years later KDG26 is seen passing through the impressive arch of the Halifax Piece Hall when taking a very active part in the Heart of the Pennines Event in October 2011. Chassis number 47.023, body number GO3063.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson
08/12/15 – 05:55
CWX 671 was in fact new in 1938 and rebodied by Roe in 1950.
Eric Bawden
08/12/15 – 13:57
This epic picture of what is still, today, a magnificent vehicle and in fine condition and brings back happy memories for me from the days in the early 1960s when I was a young conductor at WY’s Ilkley depot. At that time the staff position at Keighley was critical and we were often sent there to help out, on completely unfamiliar routes of course. On one occasion I was sent on route 19 to Hebden Bridge and, my word, what a wild and desolate, but beautiful nevertheless, route it is. In fact so desolate that some of the fare stages could only be described by “fourth milestone from Hebden Bridge” etc. and one of the stages mentions “Galstones” !! One of my most treasured possessions is my 1960 fare book which I often dip into with great pleasure. Regarding the 19 route I still shudder even now in the car at how they went on in the icy Winters – there is a “Swiss style” treacherous hill near to Hebden Bridge with minimal edge protection and a wicked sheer drop in the event of a mishap. A route not for the faint hearted and that’s for sure.
Chris Youhill
08/12/15 – 13:58
An unusual view, Les, and thanks for posting. For a more ‘traditional’ angle of viewing this specimen, please refer to my own posting of her in Fleetwood.
