Tag: Sheffield Corporation

Greyhound – Leyland Tiger PS2/1 – MWA 761 – 107


Copyright Ian Wild

T D Alexander (Greyhound) Sheffield and Arbroath
1950
Leyland Tiger PS2/1
Strachans C32R

Sheffield bought eight of these buses in 1950 for the B fleet. Their O.600 engines gave them an enhanced performance compared with the earlier PS1s. These were the only Strachans bodies bought by Sheffield and were the last new half cab single deckers in the fleet. Five lasted until 1961 (including this one) and the other three until 1962. Seven were bought by Greyhound, the eighth vehicle becoming the first ever mobile library in the City. By the time this photo was taken in 1966 at Greyhound’s Surbiton Street depot deep in the east end of the City at Attercliffe, MWA 761 (ex Sheffield 61) had become a tow wagon with most of the seats removed.
Why did Sheffield go to Strachans for this odd batch having previously bought Weymann and a few Cawood bodies for their post war single deck half cab purchases? Probably cost? At least some of the batch were used from Herries Road Garage on the Stocksbridge local services 257 and 357 where steep hills abounded. According to the PSV Circle, all were delivered with B34R seating but 62/3 later became C33R whilst 60/1 became C32R. Another oddity, why two different variants of ‘coach’ seating?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

27/02/12 – 07:28

It could have been cost or it could have been availability. If you wanted a few buses in a hurry in the late 1940s you didn’t go to a high-volume bodybuilder, as they were all snowed under with orders. Incidentally I’ve never heard of Cawood. Does anyone know anything about them?

Peter Williamson

28/02/12 – 08:06

I’m pretty sure Cawood were based in the West Riding, somewhere in the Wakefield area. They built ten bodies for Sheffield A and B fleets on Leyland Tiger PS1 chassis in 1948/9. They were contemporaries of similar Weymann bodies supplied on Leyland PS1 and PS2 and AEC Regal. I had forgotten until I was looking up the above that Sheffield also had three PS1 chassis bodied by Wilkes and Meade in 1948 – were they a subsidiary of Wallace Arnold?

Mr Anon

28/02/12 – 08:07

From the deepest depths of memory… Cawoods were a transport firm, possibly in sand & gravel near Doncaster. Cawoods (same??) also had the Rootes dealership in the town in the 50’s. Any connection? “Greyhound” buses around Sheffield got the prize for the most ironic name.

Joe

28/02/12 – 08:08

T W Cawoods & Sons were based at Bentley, near Doncaster. I don’t have exact dates when they were active but they did six rebuild jobs for J Bullock & Sons (1928) Ltd over the period 9/44 to 5/49.

MikeB

28/02/12 – 08:08

I commented on these rare beasts elsewhere on a Strachans conversation. Didn’t really know them (only knew Herries workings well when the 42/53 came to Low Edges) but wasn’t aware they’d ever been made into coaches. Do you KNOW Ian, or is it anecdotal? What is certainly true is what Peter said. Until 1950 Sheffield sourced bodies from Weymann, Cravens and Leyland and after that time from Weymann and Roe until about 1962. In the post war period 1945 – 1950, the preferred builders (of all operators) were unable to keep up with demand – they were often exporting to Government dictate – leading to operators going wherever they could to satisfy their requirements.
Other than in this context, I’d never heard of Cawood but I believe they were a little like Wilkes and Meade who also built post war Tigers for Sheffield. Wilkes and Meade were a Leeds firm who were bought by Wallace Arnold and, after building and rebodying many vehicles for WA, eventually became their body shop – and sunk into oblivion. Roberts provided pre war bodies for Sheffield and then some post war AECs and the last trams, Crossley provided chassis and bodies for anyone in need (!) and NCBs last gasp included about 40 bodies for Sheffield. The quality of the latter was suspect but death duties killed the company who’s physical assets (raw material and machinery) were bought from the receiver by Charles H Roe – so a slight continuum from the 1950 AEC/NCB through the 1950s and 1960s Roe bodies for Sheffield.

David Oldfield

28/02/12 – 17:05

The reason for the conversion to coach seating, at least for some of them, was probably for their use on the Lakeland Tour, on which they performed before being ousted by the Leyland Leopards. I have a photograph of several of them lined up outside the Strines Inn, which was a refreshment stop on the tour. I went on it one summer Sunday with my grandmother, on a new Fanfare bodied Leopard coach, but this machine was likely already in Greyhound’s yard painted red by then.

Dave Careless

28/02/12 – 17:26

David, my information about reseating is taken from the PSV Circle Sheffield fleet lists dated May 1959 and October 1973 both of which refer to fleet numbers 60-63 as ‘later reseated to C33R /C32R’ (as appropriate).

Mr Anon

29/02/12 – 07:08

There you are. You can teach an old dog new tricks – I stand corrected. If they were coach seated, did they ever do Manchesters?
11 or 12 years was a very creditable first life after the introduction of under floors.

David Oldfield

29/02/12 – 14:26

Sheffield Corporation Leyland Tiger MWA 763

Yes, David, they did do Manchester’s, and here’s a photo of 63 at Exchange Street about to undertake a trip on the 48; intriguingly, just across from Sheffield Victoria and the electric service through Woodhead tunnel to the same city. They were also active on the service 39 via The Snake as well.

Dave Careless

29/02/12 – 17:25

Thanks Dave – but look what’s behind, a 1952 Regent/Roe rebuild from the 1938 batch of Regent/Cravens!
Regrettably the 48 went from Pond Street and was operated by North Western by the time I used it regularly.

David Oldfield

01/03/12 – 07:48

Thanks, Dave Carless, for the evocative photo of 63. I used to travel on the 48 with my parents to visit relatives ‘over there’. I can recall the Leyland Olympics on the service when they were new (despite being A fleet buses), a comment I still recall from my mother being that we would travel on a front engined bus ‘as the new ones smelled of diesel fuel’. That was in the days of duplicates, triplicates, quadrupilcates etc etc on the 48. The Strachans bodied PS2s always seemed to me to be superior vehicles and the photo of 63 confirms that view even after all these years. A very elegant looking bus.

Ian Wild

03/03/12 – 17:14

The Strachans bodied PS2’s were also regulars on the the 44 Bakewell via Bamford. They were the height of comfort on the 2 hour trip on the 48 to Manchester – when compared to their predecessors, the Weymann bodied PS1’s. They were a very smart comfortable bus and by couldn’t they fly over Moscar Top

Jerry Wilkes

03/03/12 – 17:37

PS2’s were real flying machines. I don’t remember the Sheffield ones – it was a part of Yorkshire I rarely visited, but my local operator Hebble had six PS2/3’s with Willowbrook DP bodies (BCP 826-830) and boy, could they shift ! At the local Wakes holidays Hebble would employ all sorts of vehicles on the Halifax to Scarborough service, but a PS2 would leave everything else in a cloud of dust, and by the time the Royal Tigers, Regal IV’s and Reliances got there it would be parked up, emptied, cooled down its driver would have finished his dinner and be ready to set off back. Great buses. The Sheffield one shown looks really elegant to me. Strachans had a bad reputation though after the war – did these suffer the same reputation ?

John Stringer

03/03/12 – 17:46

As I said, I had very little contact with these buses but as someone who drives both preserved buses and modern coaches big (engines) is best – so I would expect them to be superior beasts (especially when compared with PS1s). What really puzzles me is why Sheffield had so few PS2s when they waited for PD2s (and by-passed the PD1) for mountainous Sheffield. The Peak District is hardly LESS mountainous!

David Oldfield

04/03/12 – 16:28

One of the former Hebble PS2s, BCP 829 Willowbrook B33F, found its way to Great Yarmouth Corporation, and Geooffrey Hilditch recounts a splendid tale about this bus in his book “Steel Wheels and Rubber Tyres” Vol 2. On one summer Saturday, he received an urgent request from a Midlands operator for a duplicate coach from Great Yarmouth. PS2 No. 17 was the only vehicle available, and when it arrived on the pick up point, this “old fashioned” lady became the subject of much derisory comment from the Bedford driving fraternity, who decided to give No.17 a head start so as not to embarrass the Great Yarmouth driver too much by leaving him well behind. Off went the well loaded PS2, and the Bedford contingent finally caught up with it at the mid point refreshment stop, where they learned to their chagrin that the Great Yarmouth driver had completed his trip, and was now on his way back home.

Roger Cox

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

05/03/12 – 07:54

In halfcab times, there was usually a big difference in performance between single-deckers and double deckers with identical specifications. The PS1 was generally regarded as satisfactory for most purposes, which the PD1 never was (except by expert clutch-stoppers such as Chris Youhill!). Similarly I’ve even heard it said that Crossleys worked well as single deckers!

Peter Williamson

07/03/12 – 08:29

The Sheffield Strachans PS2s Nos 56 to 63, MWA 756 to 763, were new in 1950 and I believe were the last half cab saloons supplied to Sheffield. They lasted until 1961/2 which was pretty average for the species. In fact, No.56 was converted into a mobile library for Sheffield City Libraries in 1962 and went on to serve in that capacity until January 1971 when it was sold for scrap. Sheffield’s six all-Crossley SD42 saloons lasted from 1947 to 1962 adding credence to Peter W’s comment above.

John Darwent

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Tiger PS1 – KWJ 103 – 103

Sheffield Corporation - Leyland Tiger - KWJ 103 - 103

Sheffield Corporation
1949
Leyland Tiger PS1 
Cawood B34F

When the Sheffield Strachan-bodied Leyland Tigers were discussed in a previous posting there was mention of a couple of batches bearing Cawood bodies. 103 was one of five for the Joint Committee (B fleet) another five were delivered to the Corporation (A fleet). I think this is parked outside Leadmill garage, waiting its turn for the washer and refuelling as was the norm at Leadmill. If my memory serves me well, the 29 at that time was for Ringinglow, which was a Leadmill route. Behind is TD5/Cravens H55R of 1937 which by the time of the pic was an instruction vehicle. This picture appears in Sheffield Transport by Chas.C. Hall, though I bought mine from RHG Simpson.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

27/12/12 – 17:05

No. 27 was the Ringinglow route Les. No.29 was a City (Fitzalan Square) to Blackburn (Shardlow’s Works) and was jointly operated with Rotherham CT Dept.

John Darwent

27/12/12 – 17:23

Another example of a ‘B’ fleet bus on a Corporation ‘A’ route.
Would Leadmill garage have that many ‘B’ routes other than Chesterfield via Dronfield and Holmesfield?

Andrew Beever

28/12/12 – 06:40

I believe that the 29 to Blackburn (not the one in Lancashire!) required single deck buses because of a low railway bridge just off Ecclesfield Road. Rotherham used to use centre entrance Bristol single decks for their contribution to the service.

Ian Wild

28/12/12 – 06:41

These PS1’s were allocated to Townhead Street, and I’m pretty sure that’s where this picture is actually taken, on the parking area at the side of the garage where a lot of Townhead’s single-deck allocation were frequently parked, along with several of the training buses. The workers 29 service was, I believe, originally a Townhead duty that eventually ended up being the responsibility of East Bank.

Dave Careless

28/12/12 – 06:44

I rather think the location is Tenter st where single deckers were parked alongside the garage wall as was the norm.

David Grant

28/12/12 – 11:01

Thanks for the info everyone. Leadmill had several B routes Andrew. My home route was the 83 to Birley. Holmesfield (86??) was another, 57 Bradway another. Happy New Year to you all.

Les Dickinson

29/12/12 – 07:00

Interesting that 29 was an “A” route, although it ran outside the city boundary, likewise 69 to Rotherham. I think this was because these ran direct from the city into Rotherham Corporation’s area and did not enter the “B” area.

Geoff Kerr

30/12/12 – 07:21

Les, I’m sure it was a typo, but the 59 was the Bradway route.
Putting B fleet buses on A fleet routes was not unusual as they were jointly owned and could be deployed as required – if not required on B duties. Indeed, at times of heavy transport usage, A fleet buses would be used on B and, sometimes, C fleet routes – especially Easter and Whit Bank Holidays.
B and C fleets were for Railway (rural) routes outside the city area. 29 and 69 were joint agreements with a neighbouring (operating) authority rather than a route taken over with the railway agreement.

David Oldfield

30/12/12 – 07:21

Nobody seems to have asked the vital question.Who were Cawood and where did they come from? Did they build other bodies?

Philip Carlton

30/12/12 – 08:36

David, As a boy I could remember every single route. However there have been many changes since, and I’ve moved around the country a lot. Somewhere along the way I lost my fifties and sixties timetables so depend a lot on memory. (Now what was I saying?) Oh yes, what you say is absolutely correct. I’ve been at Bakewell on a Bank Holiday weekend and seen buses from all three fleets arriving there. My home route, 83 Birley, was a B route but now and again would have one of the 700 series Regents on there. At that time the 95 to Intake was covered by the 700/800 Regents with an odd appearance of a 1200 series Regent. Prior to moving away with my job in 1967 I never ever saw a Leyland on the 95 though I have seen pictures of this since then. 95 was also a Leadmill route. Phillip, there is some explanation of Cawood in another article (about Sheffield’s Strachan bodies I think).

Les Dickinson

30/12/12 – 08:36

Good point, Philip…..

David Oldfield

30/12/12 – 08:49

Dave Careless and David Grant comment on Townhead Street and Tenter Street garages. These were one over the other and in Sheffield’s tram days Tenter Street housed trams. “Sheffield Transport” by Chas Hall shows a line up of the superb Roberts trams on the last day of tram operation by the city.

Les Dickinson

31/12/12 – 17:19

If I remember correctly from my student days in the 60s, all five Sheffield depots in operation then had a mix of A and B routes, but the C routes were concentrated at East Bank and Townhead Street.
Bramall Lane depot was before my time in Sheffield so I don’t know the position there.
Naturally this wasn’t part of my university course and I had to work it out for myself!

Geoff Kerr

01/01/13 – 07:09

There was nothing quite as fascinating as a bus garage when you were a schoolboy bus enthusiast. Being a Rotherham lad, I spent many hours peering through the railings outside the Corporation depot at Rawmarsh Road, but stumbling across one in Sheffield that had trams in the basement and buses on top was truly mind boggling. I’d never scribbled numbers down quite that fast before!
All the Sheffield garages were something special back in those days; Leadmill Road, with the castle-like turrets at each each side of what had been the main doorway when it was Shoreham Street tram depot, was a fascinating building, and the then modern garages at Herries Road and Greenland Road, although perhaps not as architecturally pleasing, were truly a sight to behold late at night, with lights blazing and the forecourts stuffed full of AEC’s and Leyland’s in that remarkable Sheffield livery. Talk about nirvana.
All these years later, in Canada, I have a purpose-built glass-fronted display cabinet in the lounge, full of EFE’s and the like on several shelves. Granted it’s only a display cabinet, but after dark, when I plug in the subdued fluorescent lighting in it, it immediately ceases to be a model cabinet and magically becomes Herries Road garage in 1964!!

Dave Careless

01/01/13 – 07:10

Les. Like you, I am baffled – having only memories of AECs on the 95. [Presumably we have both seen the same picture of a PD2/Weymann.] My maternal grandmother lived on Woodhouse Road and the 95 was in weekly use!
I think Bramhall Lane had Chesterfields before Leadmill – they certainly had the 13** Regent Vs that ran them.
I “left” in 1971, but still have brothers, aunts and uncles whom I visit – as I did last week. I was day-dreaming of Regent IIIs and Chesterfield PD2s passing by my hotel on Chesterfield Road (in the grounds of what was once Jordanthorpe School). Well I am getting old and nostalgic…..

David Oldfield

01/01/13 – 11:18

Does anyone know when Lincs Road Car started their joint service 85 with SJOC between Sheffield and Gainsborough by any chance ? Was it late 60`s ?
Visiting Sheffield to see relatives in the early sixties , I was amazed with the variety in the bus station . Blue Crossley training buses, new Atlanteans ( wow ! ) lots of different types of AECs – nice livery and red wheels . Dead classy I thought !

Steve Milner

01/01/13 – 13:31

The transfer of certain ex Sheffield ‘C’ routes including the 85 was made on 1st January 1970, exactly 43 years ago!

Andrew Beever

01/01/13 – 13:38

Is this an urban myth? I was once told that when the Tories were in power on the City Council the wheels were painted blue and when Labour was in power the wheels were painted red!!!

Philip Carlton

01/01/13 – 16:34

I’ve read this but apparently blue wheels first appeared on the 1966 delivery of Atlanteans when Labour controlled the City Council. The change back to red occurred because no doubt someone decided they looked better.
Service 85 became jointly operated by Sheffield Transport, Lincolnshire Road Car and East Midland as part of the disposal of the JOC C fleet, most of which went to the NBC, as you say, 43 years ago.

Geoff Kerr

01/01/13 – 16:35

Philip no urban myth, I don’t think there was enough time to paint all of them blue.
I must confess I liked the red ones better
Better still one of the local golf courses managed to renegotiate it’s lease with the council at that time.

Andrew Beever

01/01/13 – 17:30

Cheers for the info re the 85 . I have seen a few photos of LHs and REs on the route – no MWs though .

Steve Milner

02/01/13 – 07:28

Some years ago, when the Big Ben’s clock face was being renovated, they found that the black numbers were originally blue. There was some discussion about returning them to blue in the interest of historical accuracy, but Labour objected because it would favour the Tories, so black remained. Childish? Yes! True? Oh, Yes!

Chris Hebbron

02/01/13 – 07:29

Although the agreement relating to the sharing-out of “C” services between Sheffield Corporation and NBC came into effect on 01.01.1970 joint operation of the Gainsborough service didn’t start until the 18th – in the interim period four former “C” fleet Leopards were loaned to the Corporation to maintain the service. Thereafter, Sheffield provided one full-day and two part day duties from Greenland Road (generally using AEC Swifts which had been downseated to provide extra luggage capacity), East Midland provided two all-day duties from Worksop depot (generally using Leopards or REs), whilst Lincolnshire provided one all-day duty from its Retford depot (initially using a newly-allocated LH, but replaced the same year by an RE). Lincolnshire closed its Retford depot on 01.05.72, when most duties on the 85 transferred to Gainsborough depot, though a couple of buses were out stationed at East Midlands Retford depot.
Sheffield continued to outstation one bus at Retford, formerly used on the 85 pre-1970, until the end of April 1972: in recognition of their long service the Retford crew that used to work the 85 were given a duty at East Bank garage which allowed them to run light from Retford to South Anston each morning to pick up service on one of the Dinnington routes to run into Sheffield, work other routes as required, change buses, run back out to South Anston in service, and then light back to Retford – this arrangement ended when the conductor retired, after which the driver travelled to and from Sheffield as a passenger on the 85 to work as a spare driver, until he too retired the following year.

Philip Rushworth

02/01/13 – 09:04

Les, I have found my box of time tables and I have a Sheffield 11/63 to 05/64 #182 if you want to know anything just ask.

Peter

02/01/13 – 14:26

The timetable shows that through passengers on 85 had to change buses at Retford as double-deckers could not work to Gainsborough. In 1969 single-deckers began to run throughout and the 85 was operationally linked to a short A route to Parkway Markets (121).
This practice continued after the 85 had become joint, resulting in the odd sight of an East Midland bus working a Sheffield City service “on hire” – but the Lincolnshire bus did not apparently take part.

Geoff Kerr

05/01/13 – 05:44

Thanks Philip and Geoff for the extra info – great !

Steve Milner

08/01/13 – 07:41

Peter, thanks for the note on timetables – I’ll keep that in mind for my next “starter for 10”. A fascinating garage was Eastbank as it had an extensive roof-top parking area which was often used by withdrawn vehicles, each with the Sheffields lettering / insignia and fleet numbers blacked our prior to sale or disposal.

Les Dickinson

18/01/13 – 16:55

I can recall the rather unusual Cawood bodied Leyland PS1’s running out of Pond Street in the early 50’s on the 21 route to Swallownest via Catcliffe and Treeton. I seem to remember they were used on short workings to Treeton on occasion.

Jerry Wilkes

24/03/13 – 08:03

The very first vehicle to receive blue wheel hubs was No340, Atlantean/Park Royal the Earls Court show vehicle of 1964. The Daimler Fleetline/Park Royals which were delivered that same year had the normal red hubs as did the Neepsend bodied Atlanteans of 1964/5. However, all vehicles delivered during 1966 Atlantean/Park Royal, Atlantean/Neepsend and the Craven bodied Bedford had blue wheel hubs and this was the year in which the Tory party was in charge. Incidentally, No340 was the first in the fleet with blue moquette seats on both decks, the Fleetlines being red/beige on lower deck and red leather upstairs.

Trev Weckert

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

15/02/14 – 06:03

On the subject of Cawoods, it is worth noting that just after WW2 the Thames Valley company was so desperate to rebuild many of its war-worn fleet that a number of them were sent all the way up to Cawoods, including Harrington-bodied Leyland Tiger TS8 coaches and some of the Tiger TS3 and TS4’s re-purchased after being with the military. Full details are in my History of the Thames Valley Traction. Co. Ltd. 1931-1945 and 1946-1960 volumes.

Paul Lacey

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Tiger – MWA 757 – 57


Copyright R H G Simpson

Sheffield Corporation
1950
Leyland Tiger PS2/1
Strachans B34R

Despite the low fleet number, 57, this was a B fleet vehicle. The computer hadn’t taken over yet. This was one of a batch of eight delivered in 1950. Seen here in Pond Street Bus Station before the concrete and glass version. It could be cold and breezy then but us northerners are made of stern stuff. Ready for service 6 to Kiveton Park in this view but I remember boarding one of these to Eyam on one occasion in the dim and distant past. Photo bought from R H G Simpson many moons ago.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

10/02/13 – 08:06

Sheffield bought hoards of PS1 Tigers from 1947 but only eleven PS2s. These were a last (half-cab) gasp, the three Weymann examples had been delivered earlier. Apart from the PS1s, there were Weymann/Regals and apart from Weymann PS1s there were five Wilkes and Meade and ten Cawood, already seen on these pages.

David Oldfield

11/02/13 – 07:10

These used to my favourite Sheffield half cab single deckers. I always thought they looked really elegant-but that was from the frontal aspect. This photo shows them to have deep side skirt panels with correspondingly shallow saloon windows. A childhood impression shattered in one photo!!! The 6 to Kiveton Park would be converted to double deck operation in the mid 50s with the arrival of the lowbridge Weymann bodied AECs.

Ian Wild

11/02/13 – 10:19

Yes Ian, but with the 0.600 they would shift…..

David Oldfield

11/02/13 – 10:21

Nice view, Les, but you seem to have caused distress to at least one reader. Go and sit in a darkened room for a week, Ian. You might feel better! I had similar thoughts years ago about a particular steam locomotive. After first seeing it, I spent many years under the impression it was an A4, but it wasn’t . . .

Pete Davies

12/02/13 – 07:03

Yes David, superb performers on the 48 to Manchester

Ian Wild

12/02/13 – 07:04

Going “off piste” mention of A4, I was surprised when I saw a photo of the controls lay out of the recently built “Tornado”, that the controls were exactly the same as the 2-6-2 LNER, Doncaster built tank engine No. 498 which usually pulled our school train to Hamilton (which we sometimes rode illegally on the footplate)

Jim Hepburn

12/02/13 – 10:42

Oh the joys of living pre Health & Safety, Jim.

David Oldfield

12/02/13 – 14:49

On the theme of pre Health & Safety, my friend John Whitaker and I had the free run of climbing into the drivers’ cab of any of the buses at the Bradford Corporation Ludlam Street bus depot on a Sunday morning when it was quiet and there were no bosses around. We were given this freedom by a good neighbour who was a mechanic there, but with the strict instruction not to press the starter button of any of the buses which we pretended to drive. We were still about 11/12 years of age at this time, but what wonderful freedom and trust given by our parents and our neighbour Tony.

Richard Fieldhouse

12/02/13 – 14:50

Ah but never forget, even pre-Health and Safety, it was officially “strengst verboten”! OK Pete, you can’t keep us in suspense any longer. What was the quasi-A4 really and where did you see it? One of the streamlined “East Anglian” B17s or the seemingly jinxed W1 rebuild?

Stephen Ford

12/02/13 – 17:01

An A3, actually, Stephen! 60095 FLAMINGO, at Carlisle in about 1960 or 61. I am supposing it had come off the Waverley route. Looking at views of the two types now, I can understand where I went wrong! It was because of the shape of the firebox. Ah, well!

Pete Davies

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Olympic – RPA 771 – 211


Copyright Ian Wild

Sheffield Corporation
1952
Leyland Olympic HR44 
Weymann B44F

Sheffield bought three early Leyland Olympics in 1951 and followed up two years later by the acquisition of this former Demonstrator. It put in a good service life lasting until 1968 when it was sold to Dodd, (Dealer) in Dromera, Ireland. I wonder if it found a buyer or whether it was scrapped? The bus was originally fleet number 211 being renumbered as shown in the 1967 scheme. This photo was taken on 10th June 1967 at the Hillsborough terminus of the 31 Lower Walkley service which was characterised by narrow streets and steep hills.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

25/04/12 – 05:16

I think I remember these in Sheffield: were they the “integral” versions? Some had an Olympic torch badge on the front, I think. They always seemed high-floored (the opposite to what you could expect) and a bit awkward, but presumably suited the route.

Joe

25/04/12 – 05:17

From 1952 until 1956 I lived on the 31 and travelled on these and the back loader Royal Tigers. This is now a terminus for Stagecoach 52 and is also close to where the Malin Bridge branch leaves the main Supertram line to Middlewood.

David Oldfield

25/04/12 – 08:36

Can anyone tell me what size engine were in these Olympics please. I believe the King Alfred Olympic that is currently being restored and nearing completion was rescued from Ireland. I always thought it was a great shame that one of the Halifax Corporation Worldmasters were not saved for preservation especially fleet No1 – KCP 1 what a great registration number! Two of these vehicles ended up in Ireland with Keneallys coaches.

Richard McAllister

25/04/12 – 09:20

The Olympic was the integral predecessor of the Royal Tiger and shared all the same mechanical units – including the 9.8 litre 0.600. They were high floored and probably awkward – but what else would you expect of an early underfloor vehicle? [The open backed Royal Tigers 222/223 were even more awkward.] As for suiting the route, they only suited it for the operator (dimensions and power for a hilly route) certainly not passenger friendly – especially the aged and infirm. Passenger comfort only became a priority from about ten years later when technology and new designs allowed it.

David Oldfield

25/04/12 – 15:27

Yes- they looked like the ugly sisters in the sixties- especially as you say, the Tiger rear loaders. My point is that I assume in an integral bus you are not fixing a body to a one-size-fits-all chassis and could therefore make some allowance for the passengers… or what’s the point (I think that was the problem- there wasn’t one…?… or was weight reduced?) What were the advantages? You were presumably stuck with the basics of the original body for good?

Joe

25/04/12 – 16:33

Modern integral buses are monocoque, just like cars (which also used to have separate bodies/chassis)and, I think, are almost universal nowadays. You’re right, though, Joe, you picks your body length, they bold on all the mechanicals and you’re stuck with it. London Transport’s tram/trolleybus department, separate from its bus department, created integral trolleybuses around 1937, using several companies to build them, including Brush and Leyland. Strange how long it took for this system to begin to become popular, around the time when Olympics were coming off the lines and said trolleybuses were starting to go to the scrapyard!

Chris Hebbron

25/04/12 – 16:37

Leeds single deck requirements were few in post war years indeed they only bought 10 saloons in the fifties but managed to have three chassis types! These were 5 AEC Reliances 3 Leyland Tiger Cub and a pair of Guy Arab LUFs. All had the same body layout which was B34C + 14 crush load standees in a central vestibule opposite the doors. Like Sheffield’s Royal Tigers the steps were vertiginous and deep most off putting for intending passengers. Getting a push chair aboard was a major logistical exercise! The overall body shape was common to all ten but the final pair of Reliances had a more upright profile. They were mainly confined to two routes one of which passed under a low bridge and another which crossed the canal on abridge with weight restrictions.

Chris Hough

25/04/12 – 17:39

Joe, the intention with all early integrals was to save weight – it was impossible to be passenger friendly until the dawn of the rear-engined bus. Unfortunately, all of the major manufacturers found that the weight saving margin was no where near enough and that, quite the opposite, there were major weaknesses – often around suspension mountings. This was certainly true of the Bristol LS which transformed after five years into the almost identical MW chassis. Similar problems beset the AEC Monocoach which died out in favour of the Reliance. The other problem was that British operators preferred, and still do, to choose their own bodywork – cf the Leyland National of later years. Ironically the change from LS to MW and Monocaoch to Reliance were not so evident as the separate body chosen for the separate chassis tended to be identical, in all other respects, with the earlier integral body. [Come to think of it, many moved over to the Royal Tiger with identical Weymann coachwork!]

David Oldfield

25/04/12 – 17:39

Just wait until someone discovers the advantages of “demountable” bus bodies: bodies can be changed or swapped on a “chassis”, giving greater flexibility, more opportunities for upgrading, and cutting service times. Why didn’t anyone think of that before?

Joe

26/04/12 – 06:14

1904 is beyond most people’s memories, Joe.

David Oldfield

26/04/12 – 11:39

There were demountable bodies in the early twenties, Joe, although they were usually in the form of exchangeable lorry/charabanc bodies. It never carried over, though into exchangeable bus bodies, to my knowledge, at least, not in a big way.

Chris Hebbron

26/04/12 – 11:40

Nice one, Joe. However, the idea of demountable bodies does actually go back a long way. Maidstone and District started in 1911 with three Gilford chassis; these had bus bodies during the day which were changed for lorry bodies at night. I believe the lorries were used to carry vegetables to and from Covent Garden. I’m sure there are plenty of other examples elsewhere, too.
No doubt David is right when he talks about weight saving being a factor in the development of integrals, but I rather suspect that other motives in early post-war attempts were to use parts from pre-war chassis, and to generate extra work for the maker. Beadle, of course, were prominent in this field; others included Harrington and Saunders-Roe.

Roy Burke

27/04/12 – 07:22

I remember this bus from my student days and wondered why there was an odd one with a Surrey registration.
It would have demonstrated for Weymann, who were based at Addlestone. Evidently it was never fitted with standard Sheffield blinds. I never rode on the 31 although I had “digs” near Crookes on the 52 route.
The open-platform Royal Tigers used on the same route looked odd and a bit reminiscent of Edinburgh; I think the local Inspectorate had something to say about the arrangement.

Geoff Kerr

27/04/12 – 08:39

Yes, Geoff, there were responsible for the fitting of the odd looking emergency door at the rear – NEXT to an open rear platform!
Roy, what said is true but Weymann and Park Royal never did a Beadle with second-hand parts.
I type this about my home town of Sheffield from two miles up the hill from Addlestone. Funny old world.

David Oldfield

27/04/12 – 09:34

And I, a Surrey-ite, who long ago moved away, still visit my brother in Ottershaw, just across the M25 from you, David. Incidentally, whatever happened to Weymann’s works? I assume it no longer exists.

Chris Hebbron

27/04/12 – 10:35

Well, for the initiated Chris, I’m typing IN Ottershaw itself! [Funny AND small world.] Until I retired a year or two back, I passed it on the way to school – St George’s College – but ever since the turn of the millennium it has been a deserted, speculative, office block awaiting tenants. All glass and security guards with nothing to do! You must know that Addlestone Garage is a gated development (yes, in Addlestone) and the Co-op long ago made way for Tescos.

David Oldfield

28/04/12 – 08:48

A remarkable coincidence, indeed, David!
Pardon my irony when I say that the changes you mention pass, nowadays, as progress. The supreme one, though, is the gated development!
My abiding memory of Ottershaw is the Aldershot & District Dennis Lances passing by to and from Woking and the occasional ride on them as part of my journey from Portsmouth by rail.
Lovely buses. The whole area was a hotchpotch between London Transport and A&D and you could never be sure what company’s bus would pop out from some side turning.
Also, Ottershaw was the last/first telephone exchange in the London Area and I would use a callbox there to make calls to my London relatives at local call rates. Some would say miserly, I call it ‘being careful’! Happy days.

Chris Hebbron

28/04/12 – 14:47

You could have been a Yorkshireman!!!

David Oldfield

20/07/12 – 15:48

One of the benefits of the open platforms was that passengers could “hop off” whilst the vehicle was approaching the stop, preventing the driver having to do steep hill starts. The conductor would be ready with his finger on the bell to let the driver know he did not have to stop. No H&S in those days, conductors encouraged it. I got very good at jumping off buses coming up Haymarket to turn right up high street on my way home from school. I believe that is why London kept the Routemasters so long, people could hop on & off where they liked, speeding journey times.

Andy Fisher

21/07/12 – 07:38

Is that Haymarket, Sheffield, Andy?

David Oldfield

21/07/12 – 12:10

While the subject of bell-ringing comes up (not campanology, silly!) I recall, post-war, the LT conductors giving three rings to signify to the driver that the bus was full up and he could ignore queues at future stops until some passengers got off. Standing was unlimited post-war, I seem to recall, or the limit was ignored, then became eight, and eventually five. Admittedly, buses engines/brakes are more powerful (the latter more vicious, too!) but it was amazing how much more fluid passenger movement was then. They moved around the vehicle, up and down stairs and got on/off the platform effortlessly ‘whilst the bus was in motion’, moved around the vehicle. Despite my advanced years, I’m still fit, yet wouldn’t do those things now, apart from moving to the exit before the bus stops and that with great care and a tight grip on stanchions!
I used to love travelling on worn-out LT/ST’s, overloaded beyond belief. Juddering clutches, slow acceleration in waves, the vehicle leaning alarmingly round any corner. Despite all that so-called gentleness, an aunt of mine failed to stop me, as a baby, from falling out of her arms when she was climbing the open staircase of an LT and being caught by a surprised man, unharmed, so they say! Some of you might regret this, boring you with such tales!

Chris Hebbron

23/09/17 – 07:02

Regarding the bells, I was a conductor in Sheffield, with a good driver you became a good team and could trust each other, so not just quick bells for passengers getting off but when the last passenger had one foot on the platform and one hand on the pole it was ding ding, if in doubt assist them on with their spare arm. Yes for us three bells was full up and a shower of bells was emergency stop. We didn’t like the passengers using the bell because it sometimes confused things, we preferred the request of next stop please verbally.

Pete

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Leopard – 1502 WJ – 1002


Copyright Ian Wild

Sheffield Corporation
1959
Leyland Leopard L1
Weymann Fanfare C41F

This bus delivered as B fleet number 1302 was one of the first batch of six Leopards to enter service in the autumn of 1959. They made quite a stir being completely different from anything that had been purchased previously (if you exclude the one off AEC Reliance / Roe Dalesman of 1958 but which was not used on normal service for several years). 1302 was renumbered to 1002 in 1967. The Weymann Fanfare coaches were never converted for OMO whilst in Sheffield service and the photo shows 1002 complete with conductor reversing at the Dungworth terminus of the occasional 107 service on a lovely summer Sunday evening in May 1967. The 107 was an extension of the main service 7 to Stannington, another of those services to outlying hamlets which Sheffield seemed to specialise in and which made it so different from many other Municipal Operators. 1002 was withdrawn along with the rest of the batch in 1971 and was sold to Tiger Coaches (dealer) in Salsburgh, Scotland.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

15/06/2011 15:59

I have fond memories of these Fanfare bodied Leopards in the mid sixties.
My aunt and uncle used to keep the Dog & Partridge Inn at Bordhill on the climb to Woodhead pass and I spent many happy school holidays there. These coaches and the ECW bodied versions made the refreshment stop at the pub when working the X48 Sheffield/Manchester service and they were always crew worked.
I still have in my possession a letter from the Sheffield general manager thanking them for the hospitality shown to the crews and passengers over the years, when they left the pub in 1968.

Eric

Due to a few requests below is a closer shot of this vehicle, and why not.

1502 WJ close

16/06/11 – 09:32

Vehicles of my long lost youth! The excitement of living in Sheffield was that you never quite knew what to expect – and sometimes, in times of shortage – the B & C fleet Leopards emerged onto mundane tasks like the 8/9 Inner Circle or 38 Lowedges Road (much to my delight).
Wonderful picture, yet again, Ian. For obvious reasons, to those who know me, I wish that more Dalesmans and Fanfares had been built – both attractive and well built/finished bodies. These were quite the opposite of Duple and Plaxton who built buses in their slack, summer, period whereas Roe (in particular) and Weymann built coaches when they had a slack bus period. That being said, Weymann were a little more mainstream than Roe with major customers such as Southdown, Northern General Group, North Western – and smaller numbers for Devon General and South Wales.
These were the only Leopard Fanfares. Southdown had Tiger Cubs, everyone else had Reliances but Northern General also had some Guy LUF for one group company. These were the VERY FIRST Leopards built for and delivered to SJOC in July 1959 before the model was officially launched at the Scottish Motor Show the following November. Two more batches of Fanfares followed for SJOC B & C fleets as well as the ECW and Burlingham Leopards. The original six were first described as PSUC1 Tiger Cub specials but on delivery, this had been changed to L1 Leopard. (This was also interesting as the L1 was the bus version, the L2 the coach version – but ALL SJOC’s Leopard coaches were L1!)
Weymann crept back shortly after with two batches of Castilians for Southdown, lots of BET DPs in 1965 as well as multifarious coach bodies, in minute numbers, on Fords and Bedfords.

David Oldfield

16/06/11 – 11:20

The Burlingham Leopards also worked the X48, I had forgotten about those. I think I have a photo somewhere I took of a Burlingham Leopard stood outside the Dog & Partridge. I’ll see if I can dig it out, but as it was taken on a Kodak Instamatic it may not be good enough to reproduce.

Eric

17/06/11 – 18:07

1005 (1505 WJ) ended its days with Hulley of Baslow. 6170-6174 WJ also went to Hulleys of Baslow after a time with Midland Red.
See the undernoted picture on Flickr: www.flickr.com/
Seen in the picture are the “C” fleet Weymann Fanfares prior to going to Hulleys. The picture was taken at East Bank Garage in January 1970

Stephen Bloomfield

18/01/13 – 16:58

I can well recall 1505 WJ in Hulley of Baslow service . It was highly regarded by the drivers and passengers alike. After yeoman service it was withdrawn in May 1976. I believe it was sold for use as a towing vehicle in Essex and eventually scrapped in August 1978

Jerry Wilkes

19/01/13 – 06:16

And here are some of the Fanfares, as withdrawn vehicles, in Hulleys yard, plus a Yeates-bodied Bedford. www.flickr.com/photos 

Chris Hebbron

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Atlantean – KWJ 163D – 163

Sheffield Corporation - Leyland Atlantean - KWJ163D - 163

Sheffield Corporation
1966
Leyland Atlantean PDR1/2
Neepsend H44/33F

There were 40 of these Atlanteans in Sheffield in two batches of 20. This is one of the second batch delivered with blue interiors and wheels together with three rotovents in each side of the upper deck in lieu of sliding windows. These were quite effective in extracting the tobacco fug without causing too much draught but must have been difficult to clean. A facing crossover on the Supertram network now adorns this location allowing trams to reverse in front of the cathedral. The cream and blue livery contrasts with the blackened facade of the National Provincial Bank. I liked these buses with the deep windows in each deck and a touch of modernity with the curved windscreens. Pity the transmission design was not more robust. There was a touch of local pride with the bodies being ‘Built in Sheffield’. The photo was taken in 1967 when the bus was about one year old.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

02/03/14 – 08:19

The rotovents may have extracted smoke but they were worse than useless for providing ventilation in the heat of summer. It’s a moot point about the quality of either these or the contemporary Park Royal bodies as the transmission on the PDR1/2 gave the buses the violent shakes when the buses were at rest. This was even more pronounced if they were left in gear at a stop, traffic lights or give way signs.
Interesting operational point to ponder. The 88 went from Fulwood (one of the wealthiest parts of the city) to Roscoe Bank (a housing estate to the north – just short of Stannington). This was a common feature of cross-city routes – going from a wealthy suburb to a housing estate or a deprived &/or slum area (often in the East End). Did this happen in other towns and cities?

David Oldfield

02/03/14 – 15:42

I think I ought to defend the NatPro bank in this picture, Ian as like most buildings in Central Sheffield by that time, it looks cleaned, and is terracotta and stone. “blackened Facades” in post war Sheffield really were black- for years, people thought the Town Hall was built of coal.
As for vibrations, nothing but nothing can be worse than First’s Optare midibus on the Leeds Citybus route: at every pause, you can feel your brain being vibrated to mush. Progress- what progress?

Joe

03/03/14 – 07:35

Could anyone in the know prove or disprove the story that the wheels on Sheffield buses were red when Labour were in power and blue when the Tories were in power.
On the subject or routes running from rich to poor areas in Leeds the 2 and still run from affluent Roundhay to the vast Middleton estate in the south of the city

Chris Hough

03/03/14 – 07:36

Was this to Sheffield’s own specification, as most of the East Lancs and Neepsend output on rear engined double deckers seems to have been of the Bolton and Southampton style by this time?

Pete Davies

03/03/14 – 07:37

Have I read somewhere that Sheffield painted bus wheels according to the political party running the council? Red when Labour were in power and blue when the Tories were in charge? (the latter infrequently I would imagine)

Michael Keeley

03/03/14 – 07:38

What is the point of the blacked-out window “(not) illuminating” the staircase? Surely the point of a window is to allow light through – the only point of blacking a window out is to keep light out . . . so why build a blacked-out window in to start with?

Philip Rushworth

03/03/14 – 07:38

The pairing of services to rich and poor areas of a city to form a cross-city route may have been quite common for geographical reasons. In a typical city, richer and poorer suburbs have historically grown up on opposite sides of the centre because of the direction of the prevailing winds, the most desirable places to live being upwind of industrial pollution sources. And the most typical cross-city services tend to go from one side of the city to the other.
Fulwood to Roscoe Bank probably did not fall clearly into this pattern – both termini being basically west of centre – but I don’t know if other Sheffield services did.

Peter Williamson

03/03/14 – 15:13

Apparently the first Sheffield vehicle with blue wheel hubs was Atlantean/Park Royal No. 340, exhibited at the Earl’s Court Motor Show in 1963/4.

Geoff Kerr

03/03/14 – 16:01

Peter- this idea of joining places for routes across a city works well in its simplest form: but you wonder sometimes if it gave all drivers (and their buses) a share of the nice, quieter bits or even if the poorer areas subsidised the richer- who still had to be served. Sheffield (and Huddersfield and some other places) is not what it seems on a map. Steep river valleys mean that places in different valleys look close but are a long way apart by bus, if it has to go into town down one valley then out again up another. A trap for the unwary modern bus executive, in a safe office, miles away.
Philip- I think blacked out windows did let light in- the glass is black, not painted- think of those sinister black Saturday night specials (but now illegal up front).
And, all, I think it was thought that the blue wheels co-incided too co-incidentally with the Tories actually gaining power- but it was such an odd happening that I think people let them have their moment of glory!

Joe

03/03/14 – 16:59

Most of Sheffield’s main cross-city bus services were based on the tram routes they replaced, and over the years the tramway network had been gradually extended to serve the large housing estates as they were developed in the 1920’s and 30’s, and linking them to the industrial area of the east end where the vast majority of Sheffielders went to work every day.
One of the last extensions to the tramway system, if not the very last, was along Abbey Lane, a highly desirable area of the city where the trams ran in a central reservation amid much greenery and overall affluence. In fact, to highlight what a city of contrasts Sheffield is, the last route to be converted to buses ran from Beauchief, the site of a ruined abbey at one end of Abbey Lane, through the city centre to the aptly named Vulcan Road, a siding amid acres of forges, steelworks and soot-blackened terraced houses. And as if to add insult to injury, the cars passed right by Wards yard in Attercliffe on the way, where they were eventually reduced to scrap metal to feed those very same blast furnaces.

Dave Careless

03/03/14 – 17:03

Yes. Roscoe Bank and Fulwood are close as the crow flies – but that is up to Lodge Moor, across Rivelin Valley and down from Stannington. By 88, the distance is at least double – if not more. The route shape is more like a (open ended) paper clip with the U turn in town. The current 25 (Bradway – Woodhouse) is like a letter A. South West, North to Town and then South East.

David Oldfield

04/03/14 – 07:11

On the subject of desk wallahs not knowing the terrain a classic was the Northern Health Authority which was formed because the east and west coasts were only a few miles apart unfortunately they forgot about the Pennines!

Chris Hough

04/03/14 – 07:12

It’s difficult to tell from the photograph but were these vehicles built to normal height, i.e. 14ft 6in? If they were, then presumably the reason for specifying the PDR1/2 chassis to achieve a flat floor on the lower deck . I know Sheffield had only a minimal requirement for low height/lowbridge double deckers, surely they wouldn’t have ordered forty of them?

Chris Barker

04/03/14 – 08:26

Off the top of my head, I think that in 1966 STD had 99 (a memorable but odd number of) PDR1/2s. The balance had full height Park Royal bodies. I seem to remember that the Neepsend bodies were lower height – but how much lower I don’t know – or whether they were low-height in the accepted sense.

David Oldfield

04/03/14 – 08:28

These buses could fit under the bridge on the old 70 route to Upton, hence they were to a slightly lower overall height.
Fulwood may well be posh, but Stannington isn’t exactly the depths of poverty! It is one of Sheffield’s more desirable council estates. Roscoe Bank has now morphed into Hall Park Head after the terminus moved further up the hill as housing expanded.
The Conservatives were only in power for one year and the wheels were painted from red to blue. However, at certain times, bus wheels have been black as well as blue. It is also worth pointing out that the red line below the bottom blue band only ceased to be applied after the signwriter retired. These days, you would apply it in vinyl.

Neil Hudson

04/03/14 – 12:04

The design was not unique to Sheffield. Bury, Warrington and Coventry had identical or almost identical bodies on vehicles of the same period.
Blacked out windows did let in light but were opaque from the outside for purposes of “modesty” given their position.

Phil Blinkhorn

04/03/14 – 12:05

This style of East Lancs body was also bought by Warrington.

Chris Hough

04/03/14 – 12:05

Stannington is “very nice”. Had I not had to move south with work. Stannington was always high on the list of possible places to live.

David Oldfield

04/03/14 – 15:54

The blacked out window stopped people looking at passengers going up the stairs from the outside it did let a lot of light in just like ambulances and looked the part.

Dragon

05/03/14 – 07:05

Okay, so others bought this same design. Thanks, folks, but was it actually designed FOR an operator or was it the East Lancs/Neepsend ‘standard’ of the time, which some operators (such as Bolton and Southampton) chose not to use?

Pete Davies

05/03/14 – 16:20

Pete. As far as was possible, this was an East Lancs standard design. More to the point, it was well known that there really was no such thing as an East Lancs standard as they were prepared, more than any other coachbuilder, to build a bespoke design for anyone who asked. Bolton were a case in point who had their own individual designs. Southampton’s Atlanteans were really a more modern development or evolution of this earlier design.

David Oldfield

05/03/14 – 16:22

Bolton always incorporated their own ideas into their bodies by the time Southampton bought Atlanteans a single piece wrap round windscreen was standard as was a peak to the front dome.

Chris Hough

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Atlantean – CWB 346B – 346

Sheffield Corporation - Leyland Atlantean - CWB 346B - 346

Sheffield Corporation
1964
Leyland Atlantean PDR1/2
Neepsend H44/33F

Nice body – pity about the chassis! Neepsend produced a striking looking body (ok, I know – it was an East Lancs design) for the 20 buses delivered in 1964/5 plus a further 20 in 1966. I rather preferred this first batch with the red upholstery and red wheel centres. They also combined sliding windows and rotovents in the top deck. They were regular performers on the cross city 82 service. 348 of this batch had  ducted air saloon heating as a trial, later to become almost universal, as opposed to the underseat heaters of the remainder of the batch. The bus is in Fargate, Sheffield, nowadays pedestrianised but many of the buildings are still there.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

02/03/15 – 07:32

Did Sheffield Corporation specify the PDR1/2 chassis in order to provide more headroom on both decks, in the same manner as the Nottingham Renowns? It’s difficult to tell from the photograph but this vehicle doesn’t look to be low height.

Chris Barker

04/03/15 – 15:45

These were 14ft 3in if memory serves me right. They were designed to fit under a low bridge at Darfield on the 70 to Upton. There were special instructions in the Drivers Handbook about both batches.

Neil Hudson

04/03/15 – 15:45

Manchester Corporation had 132 of the PDR1/2 model. At the time it was thought that this was for reasons of standardisation, in that the gearbox was the same as on the many Fleetlines in the fleet. These vehicles had Metro-Cammell “Orion” bodies to an intermediate height of 14 feet and half an inch. They sounded very different from PDR1/1 Atlanteans, the gearbox whine being very prominent.

Don McKeown

05/03/15 – 07:11

It seems a bit unlikely that Sheffield would have bought 40 A fleet buses to a special reduced height for a B service requiring perhaps two buses. I suspect that it was coincidental that they happened to fit under the bridge on route 70 but maybe a Sheffield expert can confirm this.

Ian Wild

06/03/15 – 06:41

During my time in Sheffield in the 1960s and 70s, there were three routes which required low-height double deckers – service 70 to Upton (a C route) and B routes 6 and 19 to Dinnington. The C fleet had no suitable double deckers but only one bus was needed on service 70 (joint operator Yorkshire Traction normally used saloons). All three routes were served by the B fleet’s lowbridge Regents and later by Bridgemasters from the A fleet, in which fleet there was no requirement for low-height deckers! A lot of mileage balancing must have gone on. I’ve no recollection of the Neepsend Atlanteans being so used and I’m fairly sure a saloon was used on 70 by the time I left the area in 1975.

Geoff Kerr

07/03/15 – 07:14

My understanding of the Manchester PDR1/2 situation is that there was a low(ish) bridge on a service to Partington (222/223) which was run jointly with North Western. When this service first started, MCTD didn’t have any buses to put on it. They didn’t like the idea of being a ghost operator, but neither did they like the idea of buying special buses for one route. So they changed their standard spec for both Atlantean and Fleetline bodies to the intermediate height, which required the use of the PDR1/2 chassis for the Atlanteans. All subsequent double deckers were built to this height until the Mancunians appeared.

Peter Williamson

07/03/15 – 17:14

Peter, am I right in thinking that this arrangement meant the Atlanteans and Fleetlines shared a common drive train.

Phil Blinkhorn

08/03/15 – 06:54

Phil, the PDR1/2 used the Daimler concentric drive gearbox of the Fleetline in conjunction with the dropped centre axle from the Lowlander. Daimler used its own dropped centre rear axle.

Roger Cox

08/03/15 – 16:12

Thanks Roger

Phil Blinkhorn

25/03/15 – 16:24

I think they also operated from Bridge St. on the Shiregreen route, 47 or 48? They were always parked by Firth Park shops.

Andy Fisher

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Atlantean – 655 BWB – 225

Sheffield Corporation - Leyland Atlantean - 655 BWB - 225

Sheffield Corporation
1962
Leyland Atlantean PDR1/1
Metro Cammell H44/33F

This bus was one of a batch of nine supplied new to the B fleet as fleet number 1355. This batch were extensively used from new on service 41 to Hackenthorpe where there was a large new housing development. They were the first rear engined double deckers for the B fleet and were the final batch with rear destination displays before reversion to rear route numbers only.
Following the absorption of the B fleet in 1970, the bus was renumbered to 225. Here it is seen at Fulwood terminus of service 88 which replaced the former tram route. Fulwood was the elegant part of the City! The date was 26th August 1973, the bus looks smart and as always the Sheffield livery helped to disguise the box shape of early rear engined deckers. It carries the final pre PTE fleetname introduced I think by General Manager Noel Macdonald. It still has a full set of Leyland wheel embellishers although eleven years old. Note the Sheffield bus stop flag, quite distinctive in the days before the nationally standardised type.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

03/08/15 – 16:06

I always thought the original Atlantean and Fleetline designs from the MCW group had a certain symmetry that was lost with the later moves to graft on curved or vee windscreens and peaked domes which always looked like a bit of a lash up to me. Yes the design was ‘boxy’ but it was simple seemed to work. The PRV/Roe early incarnations though were absolutely dreadful with the top heavy Bridgemaster upper deck characteristics. Of all the body builders on the early rear-engined buses only Alexander really got it right with the Glasgow design.

Philip Halstead

04/08/15 – 06:54

I agree with Philip regarding the style of the early MCW Atlantean/Fleetline bodywork.
I have always thought it to be a rather good, quite attractive design which was most appropriate for the then ground breaking rear engined buses.

David Slater

05/08/15 – 06:20

But are these wheels with their embellishers red- as they should be- or blue, reputed to have been in “celebration” of a rare & brief Conservative takeover of the city council in 1968? Bit of history here.

Joe

wheel

Best I can do I’m afraid.

06/08/15 – 05:49

Both red AND blue would you say? Red centre on a blue wheel?

Joe

06/08/15 – 15:37

I lived at Hackenthorpe when these were introduced. What a revelation they were replacing the AEC batch 190 -198. 1261-1263 + Leylands 159-161. At eve rush hour when full standing by the driver you would marvel at the gear changing (a lollipop in a fag pkt). When new as joint omnibus fleet they did not carry the city’s coat of arms! When did 225 receive it? Must say it wasn’t long before I missed the wonderful exhaust note of the AECs!!!
NB I am collecting photos of any buses on the 41 route in 50s/60s if anyone can help?

David Grant

07/08/15 – 17:06

I preferred the Park Royal body from around the same period.

Andy Fisher

02/09/15 – 07:06

I also lived at Hackenthorpe when 1350-1358 were new.
The upper deck of 1357 was totally destroyed in a fire in the late 60s, while operating on the 41 to Hackenthorpe. It received a new Park Royal body and re-entered service in 1968.

Martyn Else

Sheffield Corporation – Crossley – JWJ 737 – 237 & KWA 776 – 576

Sheffield Corporation - Crossley - JWJ 737 - 237 & KWA 776 - 576
Sheffield Corporation - Crossley - JWJ 737 - 237 & KWA 776 - 576

Sheffield Corporation
1947
Crossley SD42 & DD42
Crossley B32R & H56R

Following the end of the war, Sheffield Corporation A fleet took a small number of Crossleys (28 in all) over three years. First to arrive were six single-deckers 237-242 (JWJ 737 – 742) in 1947. In the same year eight double-deck vehicles were added, they were 573 – 580 (KWA 773 – 780). They were followed in 1948 by another ten and in 1949 by four more. The two pictures show examples of the earliest deliveries, but look at the different styling around the front ends. The doubledeck version is probably more typically Crossley with the window line dipping to meet the line of the windscreen. The singledeck version has a straight window line at the front but still meeting the line of the windscreen. Most Sheffield doubledeckers would have two route blinds, these one-liners were in a minority but taken at a time when getting new buses was a higher priority than “calling the shots”.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

20/06/13 – 16:44

I think all Crossleys were distress purchases, in time of great need, and that they were diverted orders. That explains the non-standard features. Certainly the four 1949 Crossleys were diverted from a Liverpool order, albeit they seemed to have Sheffield specification – down to destination blinds.

David Oldfield

PS: The 1948 ten were interesting in that they had NCB bodywork. Were they unique?

21/06/13 – 08:10

I believe the single deckers were a diverted order from Chesterfield Corporation and the batch of eight double deckers 573-580 diverted from a Lancaster order.
Numbers 573-580 seemed to spend most of their lives on the Inner Circle routes 8 and 9.

John Darwent

21/06/13 – 08:11

A picture of a former Lancaster City Transport SD42 showing the straight windscreen is on this site at the People’s League for the Defence of Freedom page.The straight lower line of the windscreen was standard on the single deck Crossley bus body (the Dutch Crossleys are a completely different species). This feature was maintained right up to the very last single deck SD42/7 Crossley bodies, two of which were delivered to Southport Corporation in 1951, though these lacked the stepped waistrail. Southport had earlier also specified the straight windscreen line on its pair of DD42/7s with downdraught engines supplied in 1950.

Roger Cox

21/06/13 – 08:11

Here’s one of the DD42/3’s with NCB bodywork you mentioned, David O. Certainly nothing I’ve ever seen before. www.sct61.org.uk/sh595

Chris Hebbron

21/06/13 – 16:45

crossley_ad

Above is an advertisement put out by Crossley that is quite appropriate.

I was always intrigued how neighbouring Rotherham more or less kept their Crossleys hard at work on the flat terrain as much as possible, mainly on the joint service 69 to Sheffield, whereas STD seemed to deliberately seek out some of the fiercest hills, such as several encountered on the Inner Circle, on which to run theirs!
Division Street obviously had more faith in the Crossley’s climbing abilities than Frederick Street!

Dave Careless

22/06/13 – 07:55

The mention of the double deckers being diverted from a Lancaster order goes a long way to explaining the style of indicator display.

Pete Davies

22/06/13 – 07:56

I don’t think it is true to say that all Crossleys were distress purchases. AFAIK there were only two problems, the engine and the steering, neither of which were known about when the first ones were ordered. The engine problem only became serious under stress: I have never heard any complaints about it in single deckers, even in double deckers it was worse in hilly terrain than on the flat, and it was eventually fixed by AEC engineers. As for the steering, it too could be fixed (I don’t know if Manchester were alone in doing this) and although it sounds brutal, it was something that only affected drivers and not the balance sheet. So unless an operator actually cared about its staff, or had a strong trade union presence, the problem could be ignored.
Those two things apart, I seem to remember Geoffrey Hilditch being quite complimentary about Crossleys.

Peter Williamson

22/06/13 – 09:43

Depends what you mean by distress, Peter. Given a clear field, untrammelled by Government intervention, Sheffield would have continued to buy only Leyland and AEC – presumably continuing the pre-war body orders to Leyland, Weymann, Craven and Roberts. Like everyone else, they couldn’t get enough from their preferred suppliers and in times of “distress” went where they could to find sufficient vehicles. This included the said diverted orders of Crossleys but also included deliveries of Daimler CVD6s as well as going to unusual suppliers of bodywork – NCB; Cawood; Wilks and Meade. When things settled down in the ’50s, a simple dual sourcing policy returned – Leyland/AEC and Weymann/Roe.

David Oldfield

23/06/13 – 08:16

A further point of interest is that on receipt, the six SD42’s diverted to Sheffield had only a single destination aperture at the front (as found on similar Chesterfield vehicles) and this was not wide enough to incorporate a route number as well as a place name. Sheffield therefore effected their own modification and cut out a separate aperture alongside for the route number but presumably the restricted space for this exercise was only sufficient for a two digit display. I doubt this would have been a problem since, as far as I can remember, they spent the majority of their lives on such routes as 37 and 40 to Bakewell via Baslow and via Carver Sough.

John Darwent

23/06/13 – 08:17

Leeds had dual sourced AEC & Leyland pre war and were allocated utility Daimlers during hostilities. Such an impression did these make that Daimler continued to supply chassis for the next thirty years. They bought one Crossley which impressed enough to be followed by 20 odd others all of which lasted until the early sixties. Indeed they outlasted some of the postwar Daimlers which were far more standard than they were. Perhaps as Leeds was a major AEC customer they got help with the Crossleys from that quarter.

Chris Hough

23/06/13 – 08:17

As a small boy in Sheffield I remember being taken by my uncle on more than one occasion for a ride all the way round on the “Outer Circular” service. From memory and it is a long time ago, the bus was invariably a Crossley. Again, from memory, it was never very full so maybe “Division Street” did keep these buses to the lighter used routes?

Stan Zapiec

23/06/13 – 17:23

Like Stan, I also used Crossleys on the 2 / 3 Outer Circle. My trips were shorter, being from Gleadless Town End to Graves Park, or Abbeydale Road where we would get the tram to Millhouses Park. The Crossleys never seemed very happy on this run, especially on the uphill return journey, to my young mind.

Les Dickinson

25/06/13 – 17:04

I used the 8/9 regularly from Broadfield Road to Newbould Lane to get to school from 1964 – 1971. The Crossleys had gone by then. I only had cause to use the Outer Circle after some nit had changed it (and the route) to 2/59! [They were PDR2/1 Atlanteans. Actually quite good, but outside our purview.]

David Oldfield

03/07/13 – 15:13

The double-decker`s were used on the 8&9 routes, along with the 69 Rotherham. They would only have needed single destination blinds for these routes. Later PD2s on the 69 route also had 1 destination blind that had the route & number in one box, as you lads have explained to me before.

Andy Fisher

Sheffield Corporation – Bedford VAS1 – KWA 811D – 11


Copyright Ian Wild

Sheffield Corporation
1966
Bedford VAS1
Craven B22F

‘Mini-bus opens new field for city firm’ – says the Sheffield Telegraph newspaper in January 1966. Sheffield Transport had agreed to buy a prototype of a new design of a small bus developed by Cravens Ltd, a Company which had built a number of single and double deck bodies for Sheffield before and after the second world war. This new design would enable the Company to produce a range of different capacity buses with up to 33 seats. So far as I am aware, it remained unique. It was certainly the only Bedford bus to be operated by Sheffield.
The bus was originally used by the Transport Committee and for private hire but it later it did migrate on to normal service. I remember it especially on the circuitous route 44 to Bakewell via Ladybower and Bamford which wasn’t noted for a lot of patronage. I’m sure it must have been adapted later for one man operation as I remember the 44 being an early OMO conversion.
However here is the bus outside East Bank Garage on 19 June 1966 (it must have been nearly new) on the occasion of a tour of Sheffield by the Leeds and District Transport News.
The bus was renumbered 1 in April 1967 and was sold to the local King Edward VII Grammar School in 1973 – presumably at the expiry of its first seven year certificate of fitness.

An interesting might have been.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

04/07/12 – 05:20

Looks ungainly now and I fear it did then as well. Looks as if it ought to have a wheelchair lift in the back (needs it with that step!). The test here is whether it felt like a van with seats or a coachbuilt….coach. Small buses/coaches are fine, if that is what they are, and don’t shake themselves (and their passengers) to bits.

Joe

04/07/12 – 05:21

Ian, your final paragraph stuns me. I left KES in the summer of 1971 and kept in touch, through two members of staff in particular, who were mentors and very important to me with my professional development. …..and yet I wasn’t aware of this. I am a professional musician and retired music teacher – so one was the Head of Music. The other was an incredible guy who was also an MOT approved driving instructor, and advanced motorist, drove part-time for the real SUT and was a qualified fitter. Alan Finch got me through both the initial MOT and then the advanced driving tests first time and instilled in me a love of, and pride in, driving well and safely. Presumably he was instrumental in this purchase – but it seems to have passed me by. Sadly Alan died a couple of years ago.
Bearing in mind it was built at the same time that Cravens opened their Neepsend Coachworks and supplied a number of Atlanteans (PDR1/2) to Sheffield, it always puzzled me that No 11 was built by “Cravens” Do we assume it was Cravens Homalloy – the unit that built commercial vehicle bodies and trailers?

David Oldfield

04/07/12 – 05:22

Seem to recall that the local enthusiasts used to call this vehicle the”Cabbage Wagon”

Stephen Bloomfield

04/07/12 – 05:24

Ian is quite right about most of the operational details. However, it was never converted for OMO use.
A short time before it was withdrawn, I travelled home from work to on Weedon Street in the East End. On this particular occasion the Bedford/Craven 22 seater duplicated a Leyland Leopard/Burlingham 41 seater OMO saloon. Opting for the trip on 22, I was astonished that the vehicle was crew operated! Not a very economical bus for service!

Keith Beeden

04/07/12 – 08:37

Last time I saw it, was in ’79 and was owned by Greenthorpes garage at Darnall, incidentally 500 yards from where it was built!
It was painted light turquoise blue with a darker blue band, and was named “Georgie Porgie”!
Shame it wasn’t preserved as it was the last bus ever built by Cravens of Sheffield, but the last owners’ extortionate asking price resulted in no buyers and it eventually went for scrap.

Chris Morley

05/07/12 – 07:07

Can’t put a date to this recollection but I remember seeing this bus parked on the drive of a house in Barnburgh, a small village about 18 miles from Sheffield.
Whether this was before or after Chris saw it at Darnall I can’t say.

Andrew Charles

06/07/12 – 07:17

I took slides of no 1 working service 190, Alsing Road to Darnall (terminated in Britannia Road) an also screened up for service 44.
The body was built at the old Cravens works in Staniforth Road and adverts showed it as being a Cravens Homalloy body.

Stephen Bloomfield

10/07/12 – 06:49

I hesitate to argue with the mighty Keith Beeden, but it was definitely converted for OMO latterly, certainly by 1972. I travelled on it on the 44 at that stage. It was fitted up, as most Sheffield OMO buses were, for a TIM ticket machine- but not a powered one. I believe it only had a 12v electrical system whereas all other buses had the 24v necessary to drive a TIM power unit. I think its duty included trips on the 190, referred to above, before and after the couple of round trips on the 44 which were the entire M-F service on that route. It wasn’t used at weekends. There is an unconfirmed story that STD had an option on a second such bus which would have been used to provide Edale with a rail replacement bus service when BR applied to withdraw the Hope Valley local trains in 1966. When it was found that the replacement buses would cost more than retaining the trains, BR decided not to proceed with this plan and No1 remained unique.

Phil Drake

02/08/12 – 07:30

In reply to Phil Drake I appreciate his statement that the Sheffield Bedford number 1 was indeed OMO converted. Possibly my journey was taken when the equipment was not serviceable?
I am humbled to have the term great applied! My interest in Sheffield matters is over some 75 years

Keith Beeden

02/08/12 – 07:32

Bedford VAS1. How many of these were built? Astons Coaches Marton had a Reading DRY 7877C (re-registered for some reason), Bodied one ex Davis Leicestershire who had two. How many Reading bodied ones were built?

David Aston

Typo on the registration I think, four numbers, probably a 7 too many.

20/12/15 – 08:30

The body is by Craven Homalloy Ltd, they also bodied a Leyland 90 for Standard Triumph at Coventry it was KWK 505F (pics on Flickr) it survives as a caravan in Cambridgeshire

John Wakefield

15/07/20 – 06:42

Have just been reading a Sheffield history website. The reason that I was unaware of its sale to King Edward VII was because it wasn’t. It was sold to King Ecgbert School some five miles away on the Derbyshire border – between Dore (service 50) and Totley (service 45).

David Oldfield

28/01/21 – 06:35

David, the website information is WRONG. This bus definitely went to King Edward VII Broomhill in the early 1970’s, I was there! It was looked after by Alan Finch who is mentioned above, assisted by a number of pupils. Possibly after your time Mr Finch set up a car workshop in the sheds on the Glossop Road boundary, next to the notorious outdoor toilets, and taught car maintenance as a subsidiary subject. If I remember rightly the car Mr Finch used for the driving lessons was a light blue Austin A60. The bus was repainted in the original Blue and Cream livery. The KES crest was added under the rear window, hand painted by a pupil who was good at art. A big leather car seat was added at the front left in what was originally luggage space, comfortable for a second teacher on trips out. Years later I did see the bus at Volvo Village and recognised it straight away.

Sam Wood

28/01/21 – 13:26

Sam. It is the sort of thing that Alan would do! [I left in the summer of 1971.] As I said, he got me through the basic MOT and then the advanced (IAM) driving tests in the “School Car”. Everything that you said is correct apart from one thing. The School Car was a 1956 Series II Morris Cowley, refitted with a 1500 engine to make it into an Oxford, with massive “L”s on the sides as well as front and aft. The workshop was indeed by the “Backs”. He drove an A110 Westminster and his wife a Wolseley 1500 (in the same colours as the school car). Lunchtime Road safety lessons were also part of the package and no one drove on the road until they could handle a car on Norton Airfield. Alan also used to regale us with stories of his holiday time exploits as a driver for SUT.

David Oldfield

07/08/21 – 05:24

David, Sorry for the late reply – I don’t look at this site very often. Thank you for the confirmations and corrections. I remember Alan Finch’s Westminster – we did a lot of work on that in the school’s workshop. We had a lot of trips in the Bus, always amused by the number of people at bus stops who put their hands out – no destination or route number but it was cream and blue and they wanted to get on! The furthest I remember going was to Jodrell Bank via Blue John cavern – the Mam Tor road was still open then. Somewhere I have a photo of the Bus taken from the Blue John entrance. The Bus was a tight fit through the school gate on Glossop Road, fortunately the head stones had already been removed which did help. I don’t remember the bus suffering any damage. I’d guess Alan Finch gave the teachers some tuition before they were let loose – it was quite a bit bigger than a normal minibus. At the time we were told the bus had been built for the Transport Department Band, but this doesn’t seem to be correct. I had doubts about this at the time, it did have about the right number of seats but apart from the space at front left there was no luggage space or boot, they would have needed a van for the instruments. Happy memories!

Sam Wood

16/08/21 – 05:45

Sam. Like many local authorities, Sheffield had a special vehicle for the use of the Transport Committee and other local dignitaries. This was 900, the 1958 Roe Dalesman AEC Reliance MU3RV. A bit of an indulgence, it was also available for private hire when not on its intended duties and latterly was used on the Derbyshire B & C routes. The poor councillors must have had a bit of a shock and a tremendous come down when they found out that the replacement, eight years later, was a Bedford VAS1 with weird bus bodywork – No 1.

David Oldfield