Tag: Sheffield Corporation

Sheffield Corporation – AEC Regent I – BWE 526 – 208


Copyright R H G Simpson

Sheffield Corporation
1935
AEC Regent I
Weymann H56R

Another R H G Simpson photo which I think is worth sharing. Sheffield livery as you’ve never seen it before? Although many vehicles were taken into stock in 1935, this one was not part of a batch, and is possibly the only bus to appear this way in the fleet.
It would appear to be an attempt at streamlining, indeed the front seems to be raked back more than usual, that might just be an illusion caused by the livery application.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

05/04/13 – 05:59

A similar AEC Regent also with Weymann body albeit fully fronted was exhibited at the 1935 show in Leeds livery. This was later converted to half cab and was lent to London in the second world war.

Chris Hough

05/04/13 – 05:59

This was one of a pair – the other for Leeds – with this streamlined design which were, I believe, also show exhibits. This Sheffield example, at least, was originally full fronted but Sheffield had it converted to half-cab for the obvious and usual access reasons before it entered service.
Weymann’s first double decker in 1931 was a demonstrator which became Sheffield No66 in 1932. 85 Regent/Weymann deckers followed until 1940 (208 a one off, the rest related to and culminating in the well known classic style). Apart from penny numbers from Park Royal, 10 Cravens and 19 from the Corporation Tramways works at Queens Road, all AEC Regents pre-war came from Addlestone. 197 post war Regent III and V came from Addlestone – along with 102 PD2s.

David Oldfield

05/04/13 – 09:01

…and then we complain about modern liveries! I suppose it was a one-off, but it does suggest that the continuing Hull livery came from another era.

Joe

05/04/13 – 15:34

Joe:
It certainly wasn’t a one-off. Manchester for a period went the same way, and the influence persisted in the standard liveries of Huddersfield Corporation and Rochdale.
In practice, we were very fond of swooshes back in the 1940s and 50s. Virtually every coach builder had their own pattern of shapes which allowed us to recognise whose body it was; of course in those days we simply called it ‘trim’. The ultimate development of livery application that bore no relationship to the lines of the body undoubtedly came from the Yeates works!
I think we can get too rose-tinted about the liveries of that era. Where I grew up as a child – north Somerset – buses all looked the same, and as we took early holidays down in Cornwall there was no difference there either. Nothing really to arouse the interest, so it wasn’t until many years later that I started to develop an interest. Even then – I had moved north by that time – there was Crosville on the doorstep . . .
I do feel that our affection for the old liveries is as much a longing for the variety of those years; the individual liveries were often themselves pretty boring – Liverpool, Manchester all red, London – but they did distinguish the operators from their neighbours. We used to admire those operators who took the trouble to continue to use a separate colour on the beading between the main colours, or apply the odd gold lining, but is this really any different from the way bits of colour are applied in today’s liveries?
A post elsewhere makes the point that today’s young people will doubtless grow up with the same attitude towards the style of today as we did 50 or so years ago.

Alan Murray-Rust

06/04/13 – 07:35

Perhaps “streamlining” was an attempt to bring the new science of lowered wind resistance from planes, cars and even trains…. to the appearance of buses. We even had streamlined buildings, looking like ships. The fifties brought a new functionalism, but this, as you say, was lost on some municipalities, so intent on making a swish transition from the front of the bus to the sides… but wavy lines? I suppose it’s all a bit dorsal fin: but in 1935 that was in the future with vinyl, half tones, ads covering up windows and route branding….. at least we don’t paint the doors in fluorescent colours (much- or only the drivers?) …yet: but wait till the helfansafety experts get there.

Joe

06/04/13 – 16:45

As well as the Weymann bodied “streamline” AEC Regent in Leeds colours with a livery application very like the Sheffield one but in dark blue and turquoise Leeds also had a Roe bodied “streamline” bus at the same show. This too was painted Blue and turquoise but looked very different to the Weymann example with an almost tear drop shape and very stylised appearance.
We forget today how big an impact the railways had on style at the time both LNER and LMS were starting to run streamlined locos like the Gresley Pacifics and such styling was common in both Europe and the USA.

Chris Hough

07/04/13 – 07:53

Like many of us, I also abhor the meaningless modern vinyl “imaging” on today’s buses and applaud the attempts by some 1930s operators and builders to try to make their buses look “modern”. However, I can’t think of any instances where trams had these “go faster” liveries applied. Some, of course, didn’t need them as they were superbly designed to look modern (eg. Glasgow’s Coronations, Liverpool’s Green Goddesses, etc). The master of industrial design at this time was Raymond Loewy whose US company opened an office in London in the mid-30s. Did Weymann approach them I wonder?

Paul Haywood

07/04/13 – 07:55

Joe, OK they weren’t fluorescent but LT painted entrance doors on dual door buses yellow until late 80s(?), and in the run up to the formation of WYPTE Leeds painted Atlantean 447 and Swift 1065 in an experimental “Leeds District” livery incorporating yellow entrance doors and red exit doors.
The 30s streamlined liveries may not always have fitted the lives of the buses to which they were applied – but what I think makes them forgivable is that they were identifiably local/distinct, and they used strong/bold/deep colours unlike the flat and/or wishy-washy pastels used by two of the big groups today. But, picking-up on a point Alan made, I’ll stick my neck out and say that gold lining-out was just too fussy once rocker-panels had ceased to be a feature of bodywork.

Philip Rushworth

07/04/13 – 07:56

Joe Although not florescent London Transport painted entrance doors yellow for many years.

Chris Hough

07/04/13 – 09:52

Paul, I know I’m biased, but for me the mention of ‘modern-looking’ trams really has to start with the Sheffield Roberts ones.

Les Dickinson

07/04/13 – 16:54

Point taken, Les – yes, the Sheffield Roberts cars were smart indeed and I enjoyed riding on them in their final years, but for me, being four-wheelers, they lacked the majesty of the streamlined bogie cars. The whole 1930s period (before my time) fascinates me. For many, the sight of a streamlined tram or bus, or a visit to an art deco cinema, represented a vision of the future. We’ve all seen those early artists impressions of “How we will be living in twenty years” etc. where travel by monorail, gyrocopters and airships was assumed. When this bus was built, those visions would still be valid. The quest for increased speed on land, sea and air influenced designers throughout this period and this bus is a wonderful example.

Paul Haywood

07/04/13 – 16:54

I personally like the look of this bus. Did you notice the wind down windows. I only noticed these on a few Weymann AECs, (which also had a “booming” exhaust) on the 101 Arbourthorne route, climbing the very steep hill up East Bank Road, & some PD2s on the 69 route to Rotherham. The PD2s also had a complete destination & route number in the same big oblong route destination board. I have seen similar on other companies buses. They may be pre 1950s, with all Leyland bodies.

Andy Fisher

08/04/13 – 15:20

Andy, the PD2’s with the one destination box for route number and destination were the three so-called ‘stock sale’ PD2’s, that Leyland built on spec. for quick delivery to operators willing to forego their regular requirements such as standardized destination layouts in order to obtain buses quickly. The three that Sheffield managed to get, 601-3 (LWB 301-3), were put to work on the 69 service to Rotherham when it was decided not to relay the tramlines on the new road bridge at Tinsley, and thus abandoning for good the Sheffield-Rotherham tram service. The Sheffield trams ran no further than Vulcan Road after that, while the Rotherham single-enders ran only to Templeborough, and even they finished six months later, in November 1949.
City, Sheffield, Templeborough and Rotherham, with the applicable route numbers, were, I think, the only destinations that the trio had on their blinds, so they were more or less route-bound to the 69 or the 169 to Templeborough. A friend has told me that apparently one of them quite often showed up to run a ‘cinema-extra’ to Nether Edge late of an evening, when the picture houses were turning out (before the days of television!) before running into the garage after working on the 69 all day, but just what it showed on the blind I’m not certain. I’ve got a photo of one of them on a stand in Castlegate showing just ‘City’ in big letters, but I don’t know what route is would have been on.

Dave Careless

09/04/13 – 06:41

And while we’re on the theme of streamlining in the 1930’s, let’s not forget those Flying Bananas on the Great Western Railway. For a railway that remained strongly wedded to steam traction, this batch of AEC (and later BUT) engined diesel railbuses had a charm and character all of their own.
I know this is a bus blog, but I’m sorry, I couldn’t help myself from eulogising about these splendid rail buses !

Petras409

14/05/13 – 07:57

Andy. Only the first post war Regent III/Weymanns (527 – 536) had half drop windows. The others (1947/8) had sliders.
Petras409. Strictly speaking, DMUs had underframes built by BUT with engines supplied by either AEC or Leyland – and in a minority of cases Rolls Royce.

David Oldfield

14/05/13 – 17:22

BUT (British United Traction) was a joint sales organisation set up by AEC and Leyland for the purpose of supplying railway and trolleybus equipment, in order to give the companies a more realistic presence in what were quite limited markets. It was a similar arrangement to that of MCW, formed by the one-time totally independent companies of Metro-Cammell and Weymann.
As far as railway equipment goes, the BUT contribution was almost invariably engines and transmissions – but these were always proprietary (or suitably modified proprietary) items, BUT never having had any manufacturing plants. The engines supplied (for use in DMUs and railbuses) were manufactured by AEC, Leyland, or (in at least one instance) Albion – itself owned by Leyland at the time.
The exception to the above appears to concern early DMUs 79740-50, given as of BUT manufacture. If this is correct, the underframes and bodies must have been built somewhere (there were several likely locations within the Leyland or ACV – parent of AEC – groups). Oddly, Park Royal (itself part of ACV) supplied the bodies for some DMUs and railbuses, apparently independently of BUT.
As for Rolls-Royce engined DMUs, it may be that BUT was given the task of supplying the entire driveline and itself sourced the engines from Rolls-Royce – this is the impression given by the wording of current internet descriptions of the various DMU classes.
The supply of trolleybus chassis by BUT effectively continued the erstwhile AEC range, and trolleybus chassis building at Leyland was dropped.
As BUT was created in 1946, and the last GWR railbuses were constructed in 1942, it could not be said that there was any BUT input to the latter. The original engines were definitely of AEC manufacture, but replacement engines fitted later may well have been considered to be BUT, rather than AEC, products, of course.

David Call

19/05/13 – 15:28

Thanks for the update on the windows & route box. I am just an observer, not really knowledgeable. Now I have taken much more interest in researching Sheffield buses, I do appreciate your knowledge on these matters. You may find some of my comments a bit silly, but it is my lack of knowledge. I also do not come online that often, so you may not get an immediate thanks from me.

Andy Fisher

21/05/13 – 15:01

Following on from your information, I had a look in my tram book. The last tram from Sheffield to Rotherham was in 1948 , so presumably, these PD2s must have been of 1948 vintage. There was another PD2 all Leyland in the book, on another route. It had normal layout destination board, but with opening front upstairs windows. Can any of you people identify it for me please? I must confess to being an AEC fan, Leylands were not local untill the 1960 tram replacement tin fronts. That is unless we visited my auntie at Southy Green. The 97 & 98. They were also all Leylands. One had rounded ended opening lights, with interior lights covered in round, fluted lightshades, really smart. The other route was standard PD2s all Leyland design. They must have been 1940s buses, as it never was a tram route, so must have always been serviced by buses. I think the estate was built just after the war. Any help in identifying these busses would be appreciated.

Andy Fisher

22/05/13 – 07:21

The PD2s with opening windows would have been 656 – 667 – 1952 all Leyland PD2/10s. The three odd PD2s were indeed 1948 and doubly strange for being standard Leyland bodies in among Faringtons.

David Oldfield

24/05/13 – 14:04

light fittings_2

Andy Fisher – regarding the smart interior lights with round fluted covers, I assume you mean like this – in this instance fitted in the preserved Crosville AEC Regal with Strachans body (seen here at the 2010 Kingsbridge running day). This sort of light fitting was also virtually universal on Trent’s many Willowbrook bodied double deckers.

Stephen Ford

25/05/13 – 08:26

In the main the engines supplied by BUT to power BR’s DMUs were horizontal versions of the AEC A221 of 11.3 litres or the Leyland 0680 of 11.1 litres. The transmission consisted of a fluid flywheel and a four speed Wilson epicyclic gearbox. These were very much ‘bus engineering’.
It’s not true to say that the formation of BUT as a marketing organisation for trolleybuses saw the end of Leyland based trolleybuses. Whilst the majority of home market trolleybuses were based on AEC designs that were closely allied to the contemporary Regent bus chassis (the six wheel BUT used the front end of the Regent Three in conjunction with an updated version of rear end of the pre-war 664T), Glasgow did receive single deck trolleybuses based on, I believe, the Royal Tiger chassis or its Worldmaster equivalent.

Michael Elliott

25/05/13 – 17:15

Thanks for the info guys. Yes Stephen those lightshades were indeed the ones I remember.

Andrew Fisher

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

13/10/15 – 06:11

With regard to the Petre Street routes 34 and 35, these originally were Nos. 17 and 10 just post war. Incidentally, Petre Street was/is pronounced ‘Peter’ by locals ! ‘Hunsley Street’was also featured on the destinations. The terminus at the Wesleyan Chapel was of interest due to the alleyway by the side of the stop having an ancient water pump on it, painted green if memory serves me right. The tramway these routes replaced terminated at Petre St./Carwood Road, around half a mile or so before the Wesleyan Chapel bus terminus. There was a fatal accident outside the Ellesmere Road school in the 50’s when a man threw himself under a city bound Regent III (I seem to remember that it was 567 ?)

Mike C

Sheffield Corporation – AEC Regent I – DWB 27 – 27


Copyright Unknown

Sheffield Corporation
1937
AEC Regent I
Weymann H55R

Quite a few of Sheffield’s Regent 1 intake of 1937/8 with both original and rebuilt bodies survived up to around 1960 with the majority being withdrawn in the late 1940’s and early 1950’s. One such survivor was No. 27 registration DWB 27, a Weymann bodied H55R example. This machine was new in 1937 and survived until 1958 in original form. To achieve 21 years in normal service in Sheffield’s hilly terrain was no mean feat and unsurprisingly at the time of withdrawal, 27 was one of Sheffield’s oldest service buses albeit probably mainly used on peak time extras and school runs in later life.


Copyright John Darwent

More Regent 1 examples of a somewhat more modest lifespan were No. 357 registration EWB 657 and 353 registration EWB 653 both of 1938 vintage with Cravens H55R bodywork pictured here in 1953 at Sheffield Midland Station between duties. I am unsure whether 353 had been modernised in some way as there is a difference in appearance between the vehicles and I have another image of 353 showing sliding toplights on both decks of a later era than the drop down windows of other Cravens vehicles of the batch.

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Darwent

21/08/14 – 09:08

With the exception of the war-time Corporation (Queens Road) bodied Regents, these were the only pre-war Regents not bodied by Weymann. I was eight in 1960 but do not remember seeing any pre-war AECs in service – apart, possibly, from the Roe re-bodies. 657 is a Cravens in original condition, 653 at the very least has a modified front if not totally rebuilt.
This area in front of Midland Station was until the early 1950s used by C fleet routes (out of town) and possibly some B fleet as well. Buses awaiting service were parked, like 653 and 657, against the pavement which divided the area from the road.

David Oldfield

21/08/14 – 10:57

Lovely photos of the Regent I which always make my heart beat a little faster! Why is there a space fillet between body and rad on 27? Was a slightly shorter body fitted later or what? I imagine it wasn’t re-engined with a Gardner 6LW engine!!!
Photo 2 shows the typical unmatching front wings, so prevalent at this time! I also notice that the matching height headlamps lf 353 do not apply to 657.

Chris Hebbron

21/08/14 – 12:45

Sheffield continued to specify the 8.8 litre engines after the “7.7” had become standard. Maybe this explains the space fillet.

David Oldfield

21/08/14 – 15:28


Copyright Unknown

I think the radiator fillet was a general feature on all the Regent 1’s Chris, even the Roe rebuilds.

John Darwent

22/08/14 – 06:42

The extended bonnet as seen on these Sheffield Regents was standard for the 8.8 litre engine. This originally was the A165 indirect injection unit, but later, under pressure from the LPTB, became the A180 direct injection motor with Leyland style pot cavity pistons. The 6LW was even longer than the AEC 8.8, as may be seen on pictures of the London LT types and Huddersfield Regals so fitted. I suspect that the Sheffield examples were of the 8.8 indirect injection variety. Incidentally, I am intrigued by the picture of the two Regents parked side by side. How on earth did the driver of EWB 653 get out of the cab?

Roger Cox

22/08/14 – 08:20

Aye, there’s a bit of Sheffield black magic there, Roger.
The Roe re-build bodies replaced Cravens bodies – which were, I would guess, of suspect build quality. This might also explain the modification/rebuild of 653.

David Oldfield

22/08/14 – 18:11

Good point re the driver’s door Roger. I have examined the original photo taken with my highly unsophisticated Brownie 127 way back when and there is no trickery. Another photo of 353 reveals an ordinary opening door – no sliding conversion – of course, if the cab had similar characteristics to my old Austin Mini, then the driver could have exited through the floorpan!

John Darwent

22/08/14 – 18:11

Well, either he got out before EWB657 reversed into place (people sometimes do that to me in supermarket car parks!) – or, to misquote the famous Yorkshire tale, “Ee, ‘e were thin!”

Stephen Ford

23/08/14 – 16:32


Copyright Unknown

Here’s an eclectic selection of Sheffield Corporation gems dominated by Regent 1’s, seen on the Pond Street bus park in the early 50’s.
Featuring;
306 – 1938 Regent 1/Weymann CWJ 406
471 – 1941 Regent 1/Northern Counties HWA 51
496 – 1944 Daimler CWA6/Duple
    4 – 1938 All Leyland TD5c EWJ 304
438 – 1940 Regent 1/Weymann GWE 658
474 – 1942 All Leyland TD7 HWA 384

John Darwent

29/08/14 – 15:25

I used to live by Brammall Lane, but went to school at Anns Rd. Heeley. To go to school I had a choice of 33 Hemsworth, (Regent 3 Cravens bodywork), 34 Graves Park, (Regent 3 Northern Coachbuilders), 35 Hollythorpe Rise, (Regent 3 Weymann). All had pre selector gearbox.
However, there was a duplicate route 36 to Heeley Green. This was the original route of 1913, extended to Graves Park in 1926. You could have single, double decker’s or lowdeckers, pre or post war. It did not have a destination name, as these were all removed in WW2, & after that, there was no such route.
The reason I loved this route so much, was it had to make a steep hill start at Anns Road stop. If it was not a pre selector box but a crash box, I would stay on the bus to Heeley Green. They would set off in 1st, but by the time they engaged 2nd,the bus had come to a stop. They then repeated the process many times to get to the top of the hill. I chuckled inside, many of the conductors also, as the driver got more & more frustrated. It made me late for school. Of course I blamed the buses for making me late, but it was worth it.
Would someone explain how the pre selector box works please?

Andy Fisher

29/08/14 – 15:28

Andy To start with try this. it may be a bit slow to load.

Peter

Sheffield Corporation – AEC Regal IV – OWB 14 – 214


Copyright ‘unknown’ if you know please get in touch

Sheffield Corporation
1952
AEC Regal IV 9821S 
Roe B44F

Sheffield quickly tried out underfloor engined single deckers when they became available with three Leyland Olympics in 1951 and three of these Roe bodied AEC Regal IV in 1952. Notably, all were for the A fleet although I recall the Olympics in particular being regular performers on the C service 48 to Manchester despite their bus seats. The Regal IVs always seemed to be out of the limelight certainly later in life being used on workmens services to the east end of the City.Of particular note is that these three were owned initially by ACV Sales being purchased by Sheffield in 1954. This photograph shows the legal owner as the Secretary of ACV Sales at 49 Berkeley Square in London. The Sheffield coat of arms is displayed but without a fleet name. Notable is the City of Oxford like vee shape on the front panel which was retained throughout their lives except for 213 which later had an all cream front panel probably as a result of accident damage repairs. There is a substantial semaphore trafficator arm behind the entrance doors. It is hard to imagine what an impact these vehicles must have made being so different from the then standard half cab single decker and with ten more seats. The photo is taken outside the Roe factory in Leeds.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

A full list of Regal IV codes can be seen here.

16/03/11 – 10:05

AEC? Roe? Perfection? …..and yet these beasts eluded me in my Sheffield childhood. I was a regular passenger on the back-loader Leylands, though. Fascinating about the early ACV ownership – presumably as demonstrators.
I love the Regal IV, especially the RF, but these were a minority with synchromesh gearboxes. Contemporary SUT RegalIV/Windover coaches had a of majority pre-select gearboxes – but even these had a minority of synchros.
As a “heavyweight” man, I never bought into the “over-engineered” tag given to the Regal IV (and Royal Tigers). The heavy Reliance and Leopard righted this wrong but we had to go through a period when I thought vehicles were under-engineered – especially when Tiger Cubs had 0.350 engines.

David Oldfield

17/03/11 – 06:58

I used to go to the Sheffield Depot of Independent TD Alexander (Greyhound) on a Saturday afternoon. There was a fitter there who worked for Sheffield Transport at Greenland Road Depot (apparently Sheffield knew of this arrangement) where the three Regal IV were based at that time. He told me one day that they had sent all three out as Peak District extras on the preceding Bank Holiday Monday – and all three had to be towed back with clutch faults! I seem to recall a fair bit of trouble with the hydraulic clutch operation on the PMT Reliances, probably 214 et all had the same equipment.

Ian Wild

17/03/11 – 18:22

Notwithstanding their frailties, the longevity of these three buses amounting to 16/17 years service was no mean feat in Sheffield terms and compares favourably with the Leyland Olympics of the time. Perhaps their mechanical shortcomings were outweighed by the fact that they were bodied by Roe who had impressed the Department with the quality of the nine PD2’s of late 1951 for the Fulwood – Malin Bridge via Hunters Bar tram replacement.

John Darwent

17/03/11 – 19:22

I can empathise with John’s comments about the Roe bodywork, but would the clutch problems possibly be connected to the gearbox problems experienced by AEC and, subsequently Sheffield, with the early synchros?
I believe it was Classic Bus which carried an article about a catalogue of problems with the early AEC synchro boxes which Sheffield helped ACV to sort out. The OWE Roe/RegentIIIs, and possibly the 1953 RWBs, had crash boxes and all their synchromesh gearboxes were retrofitted.
The pre-select had been designed for the 9.6 engine in the RT; the crash was a pre-war box for the 7.7 engine. Mixing manual box and bigger engine took longer to sort out than expected. Even the giants with a reputation for quality could get it wrong; but they survived by eventually sorting things out.

David Oldfield

19/03/11 – 07:49

The OWE batches of Regent III delivered with Roe bodies in 1952 had 9613A chassis numbers ie constant mesh gearboxes as built. The PSV Circle notes that synchromesh gearboxes were fitted to these buses in 1953. The 1953 batch of RWA registered buses had 9613S chassis numbers ie synchromesh gearboxes as built.
The three Regal IV were withdrawn in 1968, ie 16 years service. The Olympics were withdrawn 1966/67/68 (2) ie 15,16,17 yrs of service. My recollection is that the Regals did relatively light duties (58 to Thorpe Hesley and 106 to Brookhouse Colliery – both Colliery/Works services – being typical). The Olympics were used latterly on the well loaded and hilly service 31 to Lower Walkley. probably due to CoF expiry dates Olympics 11 and 26 outlasted the rear entrance ‘crush loader’ Royal Tigers on this service. My notes at the beginning of 1968 show that at this time 26 was the oldest bus in the fleet and its last repaint was in December 1960 – ‘it looked rather shabby’. By comparison 11 (the ex Demonstrator) had been repainted in June 1966 and ‘had a full set of retrimmed seat cushions’.

Ian Wild

19/03/11 – 17:16

Thanks for clarification, Ian. I lived on the 31 until I was 5, when I moved to Greenhill. I do remember the Regal IVs being 58/Thorpe Hesley regulars.

David Oldfield

04/10/11 – 21:01

That AEC OWB 14 was a regular performer on route 40, Sheffield – Bakewell and was also used on the Bakewell school run via the Hope Valley, been on it many a time when I was at Lady Manners School 1953-56. I also recall another single decker RPA 221 which was a Surrey registration, but I can’t recall if it was a Leyland or AEC. Other AECs I remember on that route started with TWJ — reg at that time.

Chris Webb

05/10/11 – 06:38

Chris RPA 221 was an ex demonstrator Leyland Olympic, the registration a Surrey one, local to Weymann at Addlestone. The AECs you mention were the C fleet integral AEC/Park Royal Monocoaches

David Oldfield

Sheffield Corporation – AEC Regal IV – OWB 13 – 13

Sheffield Corporation - AEC Regal IV - OWB 13 - 13

Sheffield Corporation
1952
AEC Regal IV
Roe B44F

Sheffield 13 (originally 213) is passing a splendid array of shop fronts in Haymarket, Sheffield on a midday 29 to Blackburn (in Rotherham – not Lancashire). This was a works service to Shardlows Works midway between Sheffield and Rotherham. A low bridge required the use of single deckers. I cannot recall seeing a bus on this service showing a destination so presumably was not on the standard blinds. An oddity of this bus by this date (August 1967) was the plain cream front presumably after an accident damage repair. As delivered it had a City of Oxford style swoop painted blue a feature which was retained by sisters 12 and 14 to the end of their service life. I used to chat to a Greenland Depot Fitter when he worked at Greyhound in Sheffield on a Saturday afternoon. I recall him saying how unreliable these three buses were with repeated clutch and door failures. He told me one Bank Holiday weekend all three were sent on Peak District extras and all three had to be towed back to garage.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

Sheffield Corporation – AEC Regal I – KWJ 184 – 1184

Sheffield Corporation - AEC Regal - KWJ 184 - 1184

Sheffield Corporation
1948
AEC Regal I
Weymann B34R

A few early post war Sheffield single deckers found their way to Contractors on withdrawal and this example is with H Camm. It is seen on the car park near Pond Street Bus Station in 1963. The bus would have been a regular performer on Peak District services during its Sheffield career, particularly on the 37 to Bakewell and the 84 to Buxton as it was a C fleet bus.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

09/03/16 – 15:23

I’m surprised not to have seen a comment yet on this fine vehicle, so here goes! This AEC demonstrates that the designers of a really good-looking vehicle put function in very first place, but also let a good eye dictate the details, all of which they’ve achieved to perfection. Interesting that this posting comes so soon after Roger Cox’s unearthing of that poor Austin K3 with its April Fool Nightmare “coachwork”—which I hope one day turns out not to be by Bush and Twiddy. I’ve always found buses far more interesting than coaches simply because there’s so much less scope for “stylists” to let their imagination run riot on a vehicle that has to meet as many demanding criteria as a service bus must.

Ian Thompson

15/03/16 – 06:22

Yes Ian and Ian, splendid buses that stir childhood memories for me on the Bakewell 40 via Calver Sough and 84 Buxton. Living at Ecclesall, as a small child I was occasionally treated to a trip to Bakewell with my mother and of course the favoured seat would be at the front behind the engine and the heater.

heater

As far as I can remember, this batch buses had the whopping Clayton Heaters affixed to the bulkhead but I may be wrong as I don’t remember any other post-war buses carrying these heaters.

John Darwent

17/03/16 – 05:08

I think most if not all early post war single deckers for Sheffield JOC (B&C fleets) had the Clayton bulkhead heater fitted. I too travelled on these to Buxton and Bakewell and on similar PS1/PS2 on the Manchester services. Do you remember this type of bus being fitted with rear wheel chains to cope with snowy weather? They made one hell of a noise on Ecclesall Road.

Ian Wild

26/03/16 – 05:05

As a teenager in the mid 60’s I made the trip from Denton (east of Manchester) to Sheffield on the 39. A leisurely ride including a break at the Snake Inn. I was always fascinated by the blind which showed “Sheffield via Ashopton” but I could never work out where was Ashopton. It was only some time later that I discovered that Ashopton together with Derwent were drowned villages and lay at the bottom of the Ladybower reservoirs but nobody had bothered to update the destination blinds. I note Ian Wild’s comment that PS1/PS2 were used on the Manchester services: I am sure that the bus I rode on that day was an AEC because the radiator caught my attention. There were no AECs in the part of Manchester where I lived at that time. Could it have been a one-off allocation I wonder?

David Revis

27/03/16 – 16:35

David, I suspect that your memory serves you well. In some personal memories of Dennis E Vickers, a former Sheffield bus operator and enthusiast, he well remembers one of his first journeys over The Snake (Route 39) on an ageing Sheffield 1947 AEC Regal 1, sitting behind the large circular heater on the front bulkhead of the rear entrance half-cab saloon as it whined and rattled over the moors.

John Darwent

29/03/16 – 07:01

Hello John, thank you for your confirmation that AEC’s did work the 39. The photo at the head of this thread is definitely the type I rode in. It would be good if someone could provide a photo of this type in Sheffield colours…..please.
I did make an error in my original post: it was the mid 50’s and not the mid 60’s when I made that trip. Sheffield still had trams running then Are the personal memories by Dennis Vickers in book form or can they be accessed on the internet?

David Revis

02/04/16 – 07:05


Copyright Unknown

Here’s a picture of a couple of Sheffield’s Regals David. As far as the memories are concerned, they are neither in book form nor on the net unfortunately. They were a short article in an amateur periodical of a local enthusiasts society many years ago. If you will let me have an email address, I will happily send you a scan of the rather faded ‘remains’ of the article.

John Darwent

03/04/16 – 07:32

54

A very interesting Sheffield 54 ex demo AEC.

Ken Wragg

04/04/16 – 06:39

John, Many thanks for digging out the photo: it is much appreciated. It also confirms my boyhood opinion that even in 1957 (I think) they looked so old fashioned.

Ken, an interesting photo indeed. It looks as if it’s a half-canopy front; would that have been unique to Sheffield I wonder?

David Revis

05/04/16 – 06:45

I have no idea whether this bus is a half canopy or not it is a photo from my great uncle Frank Brindley a freelance press photographer who took a lot of bad weather photos all I know is this bus was a AEC demo bus.

Ken Wragg

08/04/16 – 06:21


Photo Courtesy of the Tom Robinson Collection

Quite right David, Sheffield’s Weymann/Regal 1 No. 54 was indeed a half-canopy front and as such was unique in the Sheffield fleet. The late Charles Hall FCIT in his Sheffield Transport ‘bible’ stated that this was a demonstrator ‘on loan’ from January 1940 until brought into the fleet in December of that year as number 54. It was believed to have been at the last Pre-War Commercial Motor Show. 54 was apparently a well-liked and reliable vehicle, lasting until 1955 in service before being converted into a canteen bus with withdrawal coming in January 1961.

John Darwent

08/04/16 – 16:54

I bet they were glad to grab it while they could.

Chris Hebbron

Sheffield Corporation – AEC Bridgemaster – 1925 WA – 525


Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Sheffield Corporation
1961
AEC Bridgemaster
Park Royal H43/29F

I think this photo was taken when this bus was new it looks in very good condition to me. The angle of the shot does show up the very square and upright look of the Park Royal Bridgemaster. Why did the Bridgemaster have that small window to the left of the entrance doors (see D Oldfield update below) no other front entrance bus that I know of did. There must be a reason apart from just having a window otherwise moving the doors more into the saloon would be wasted space, bodybuilders do not waste space. If you know, let me know, please leave a comment.

Reg no 1925 WA fleet no 525 was one of six Bridgmasters supplied to Sheffield Transport the other five were all rear entrance. It has been preserved.

George

I think there was a first batch of six, all rear entrance followed 2 years later by a one off front entrance.

Anonymous

I have a shot of a rear entrance Sheffield Bridgemaster so I will do more research and it will arrive shortly with full details.
In fact I have done the research and the bus arrived on Monday 3rd August, here is a link to it.

Peter

Sheffield Bridgemasters: 519-524 were rear entrance with a row of five rear facing seats, Lodekka style, at the front of the saloon. This covered the gearbox/differential housing – which can be seen at the front of the saloon of all traditional half-cabs. On Bridgemasters, this was extra large – hence the reason on the front entrance version for the doors to be set further back and the strange small window.
From a Sheffielder who travelled – at times – on all seven vehicles.

David Oldfield

This photo would have been taken by the corporations own photographer. It is taken outside the gates of Norfolk Park. The council took photos of all there new buses here. The East Bank, Shoreham Street and Queens Road depots were all less than a mile from here.

James Walker

06/07/12 – 07:20

This bus was often to be seen on the number 7 route to Stannington

Brian

03/10/13 – 08:49

I have conducted on 525 doing a few weddings this summer. Can any of your Sheffield experts tell me why the lower deck has a green interior including seats whilst the staircase and upper deck is red.

Geoff S

03/10/13 – 14:35

Because that was the standard post war interior colour scheme until 1959. Only in 1960, with 1325-1349, did the inside saloons begin to have a red scheme, but not all. This scheme only lasted until 1966 when the interiors were again changed – this time to blue on each deck. Why? I have to admit, I often wondered that myself but – as we were often told in the days, it is because it is!

David Oldfield

03/10/13 – 15:41

David, I remember the wheels being blue for a while too, due to local politics, but don’t think that would be the reason for the seats as the council was very red at the time.

Les Dickinson

04/10/13 – 06:11

True or not, Les, it’s the sort of childish behaviour we’ve come to expect from modern-day politicians! Some years, ago, when Big Ben was being renovated, it was found that the original paint applied to the clockfaces was blue. In the interests of historical accuracy, preparations were made to repaint them blue, until the non-Labour MP’s got to hear of it. They remained black! Of course, compromise could have made three of them red, blue and yellow respectively, with the other one…… pink!

Chris Hebbron

04/10/13 – 15:14

On the interiors, we have to remember the down stair seats were upholstered, whilst the upstairs were leather, so smokers would not damage them.
My personal choice was for red wheels with chrome rings, even though I come from the blue half of the city.

Andy Fisher

04/10/13 – 17:21

Blue half, Andy? That much?

David Oldfield

05/10/13 – 15:38

More like the blue 3/4 side.

Andy Fisher

22/10/13 – 17:37

Just thought I would let you know that the first vehicle in the fleet to have blue seats (moquette on both decks incidentally) was No 340, the Commercial Motor Show Atlantean exhibit of 1964. It was also the first to sport blue wheels. The Fleetline’s which came the same year had the normal red seats and wheels etc as did the Neepsend bodied Atlantean’s. It was 1966 that the blue seats and wheels were adopted as standard, the first vehicles being Park Royal and Neepsend bodied Atlantean’s and the Bedford VAS/Craven.

Trev Weckert

23/10/13 – 17:41

1925 WA_rear

It was never going to be as attractive as Kylie M’s rear aspect but interesting nevertheless. Seen here before final touches added after repaint.

John Darwent

24/10/13 – 07:50

I always think that this PRV design was the ugliest they ever came up with and one of the ugliest ever by anyone. It first graced Atlanteans then PD2s, Regent Vs and Tiger (PS1/PS2) rebuilds. Nevertheless, every time I see 525 I feel a great affection for it. Are the proportions better than on the East Kent Regent Vs? Does the livery suit it better? …..or am I just a big softie who remembers the old girl when she was brand new, doing the Herdings in Sheffield? […..and that is a fantastic photo, John.] I’d love to have a drive of her.

David Oldfield

26/10/13 – 07:22

I seem to remember seeing the rear open platform buses, at the bus stop on Olive Grove Road on the 101 Arbourthorne route. Service 28 & 43 also run from that stop. Rightly or wrongly I believed that they had some kind of air suspension that you could bounce up & down. Would this be so? My times catching the 43, they had Regent 5s with front operated doors, a handsome bus, but I never rode a Bridgemaster.

Andy Fisher

26/10/13 – 12:15

64-73 were, indeed, handsome buses. 1963 Regent V 2D2RA with Weymann Aurora bodywork. They were regular performers on the 28/43 group. [My Grandmother lived on the 28 route.] You are right about the air suspension on the Bridgemasters.

David Oldfield

29/10/13 – 07:38

973 FWJ

Here is 273 (originally 73) as mentioned by David above it is seen reversing at Lodge Moor Hospital on 20th January 1968.

Ian Wild

29/10/13 – 13:16

Thanks for that, Ian. I always thought that these were the best looking front loader AECs. 435-460 (1960s back loader Orions) were also handsome buses. A great pity that Sheffield never had front loader Roe bodies on their Regent Vs as the Park Royals were “unbalanced” and not at all attractive. Give me 64-73 any time.

David Oldfield

29/10/13 – 13:18

966 FWJ_lr

Here is an off side view of 66 (966 FWJ). What a day that was didn’t stop raining all day.

Peter

29/10/13 – 16:11

Totally agree, a handsome bus & the ones I remember. These were one of the first busses I remember that had the string pull bell, asking the passenger to stop the bus with one pull. There may have been other types, just that I did not ride them. I also think they had 2 door opening levers, one for the driver in the cab & one for the conductor on the bulkhead, or was there room for the driver to operate the bulkhead one. Of the Atlanteans of the era, I preferred the Park Royal bodywork.
There was a coach building firm on Penistone Road, on the right hand side just before the speedway track outbound. I think they made the 1965 c reg, on the Shiregreen route, may have been 47 & 48 routes. Their terminus was on Bridge Street. They had twin windows at the rear & also the upstairs emergency window & not a particularly good looking thing. Does anyone have any photos or information on the coach builder or pictures? I have pictures of them as part of streets scenes, but no information, as the subject matter was on how things looked at the time.

Andy Fisher

30/10/13 – 07:07

They were the Neepsend bodied PDR1/2 Atlanteans built between 1964 and 1966. There is still a misconception about Neepsend Coachworks. Cravens of Darnall came out of bus building after the 1950 Regent IIIs for Sheffield. At the suggestion of East Lancs own board of directors they came back in 1964 by buying all the shares of East Lancashire Coachbuilders from their three owner/directors. Cravens decided to create more capacity by building a new factory at Neepsend, Sheffield but to use East Lancs designs. Initially this was done by building up East Lancs parts but eventually everything was built in Sheffield for Neepsend bodies. This didn’t last for long and extra capacity was unnecessary – so Neepsend production had ceased by 1968. [Neepsend quality was apparently not up to Lancashire standards either.] East Lancs continued in Cravens ownership until Cravens themselves were bought by John Brown and the Trafalgar House. Eventually ownership passed to Drawlane – but Neepsend was long gone by this time.

David Oldfield

30/10/13 – 07:07

Penistone Road- That would be Neepsend (which is where they were) who suddenly appeared there in the 60’s- until ? They were part of East Lancs and possibly there was an incentive to open up there. The factory had see-through doors and bus skeletons would slowly appear for passers by and then be clad.

Joe

30/10/13 – 07:08

Andy, Neepsend Coachworks was on Penistone Road as you describe. Neepsend was a subsidiary of East Lancs Coachbuilders, Blackburn. They built two batches of bodies of 20 each on Leyland Atlantean PDR1/2 chassis for Sheffield in 1964/5/6. I thought they were good looking buses, better than the Park Royals as they had equal depth windows on each deck. Neepsend fitted new staircases to Sheffield Weymann bodied Regents 811 and 813 at a time when Queens Road was overwhelmed by such work on the batch of 40.

Ian Wild

30/10/13 – 11:52

Ian, Neepsend was not a subsidiary of East Lancs. This is one of the long standing misconceptions of bus industry history. The correct story is given above in great detail by David.

Roger Cox

31/10/13 – 07:11

David, thanks for the clarification over Neepsend ownership. Huddersfield had 16 CVG6LX delivered in 1966, half bodied by East Lancs and half by Neepsend. The bodies from each source were randomly distributed amongst the fleet numbers. I don’t recall either make of body being any worse than the other when it came to the first COF at 7 years

Ian Wild

31/10/13 – 08:16

That’s OK, Ian, there have been years of obfuscation over the ownership but, even as a kid in Sheffield when they were built, I was aware that they were “really” Cravens. East Lancs, being the higher profile name, people would, and did, jump to the wrong conclusion. To be strictly correct, both East Lancs AND Neepsend were independent subsidiaries of the holding company Cravens. [The details came from the East Lancs book from Venture (or was it TPC?).] It was common to mix and match East Lancs and Neepsend in an order – I think it happened at Southampton – which I think is bizarre, but I wasn’t running the company. Somehow, I’d missed out that Huddersfield had any – only took 57 years for me catch up!

David Oldfield

31/10/13 – 15:07

I think a great deal of the confusion comes from the fact that traditional East Lancs customers placed orders with that company and, because of either lack of space at the Blackburn factory or to give work to Neepsend, orders or part orders were dealt with by Neepsend. It would be interesting to know how much say the customer had in where the vehicle was bodied. I know that in the case of Stockport its 1967 order was split because the chassis, already delayed due to a large order book at Leyland, would have lingered for many months, or been bodied by another company, had half the order not been dealt with by Neepsend. The two batches were at least numbered one following from the other but it was widely understood over the ensuing years in service that the Sheffield product was inferior.

Phil Blinkhorn

02/11/13 – 17:57

I borrowed a book from the library on Firth Browns steel company. One of the separate companies, (from poor memory Firths) bought Cravens, as a way of placing their steel. It said they made railway carriages, trams & busses. It must have been early 1900s, because there was not a lot of bus activity, although expanding fast, but lots of the other forms of public transport. The next time I use the library, (I will have to be quick as Sheffield is closing numerous libraries, politics, do not get me started) I will get the book out again to research, unless you chaps know the answer.

Andy Fisher

07/11/13 – 15:25

Got the book now. John Brown of Firth Browns (world renown steel company here in Sheffield), bought Cravens in 1919. It was called at that time Cravens Train & Carriage Company or something similar. I am not sure if Sheffield had any busses in 1919, as trams ruled. He bought it when work was short in the steel industry. It enabled him to sell wheels, axles & springs to them.

Andy Fisher

07/11/13 – 17:55

Just returning to the point about East Lancs orders being fulfilled at Neepsend, it seems all the frames were supplied from East Lancs thus enhancing the widely held view of the relationship between the companies that had Neepsend as the junior partner.

Phil Blinkhorn

08/11/13 – 06:39

Phil. I would probably still call them the junior partner, they simply weren’t owned by, nor were they a subsidiary of, East Lancs. Both were owned by Cravens – but in terms of volume and life-span Neepsend was certainly the baby brother, dependent on its older sibling.

David Oldfield

08/11/13 – 06:39

There is of course an interesting thread on a Neepsend posting under the Bodybuilder section of the OBP site. Coincidentally, the final post is by one John Brown!

John Darwent

24/11/13 – 07:38

I have got another book which proves my presumption of no buses in 1920. It shows a Daimler, double decker, solid wheels, with Allen (Sheffield) bodywork, around 1912. Any more info from you gentlemen?

Andy Fisher

26/11/13 – 15:42

In my last posting I should have said my presumption of no buses pre 1920 was wrong. Sheffield Corporation took over the running of busses a few days after WW1 broke out, around the 7th of August 1914.
Did any other Corporations in other city’s do the same?

Andy Fisher

01/12/13 – 08:19

Lovely to see my favourite bus from my schoolboy days in the early Sixties is still alive and kicking! Driving down Wortley Road in Rotherham I could not believe my eyes when there she was parked waiting to pick up a wedding party! Who now owns her and where does she live? (the link at the top of his thread did not work when I tried it) I would love to visit her for old time sake and relive schoolboy memories.
I became acquainted with her and her six rear loading sisters on the 101,102 & 105 routes to Gleadless Townend/Herdings in 1962. I always wondered why the Bridgemasters were used on these routes, there being no overbridges on these routes. I never saw them on any other route but previous threads show they were.
The attraction about 525 to me was the lovely turbine like whining noise she made in top gear. this was not shared with her sisters, can anyone explain why. Does she still sound the same given she has been re-engined. You could always tell AECs because if the whining noise they made in lower gears but this top gear noise appeared to be unique to 525.
I had heard stories that she had been preserved but it was lovely to see her out and about again. What happened to her and her sisters after they left Sheffield and why was she the only one?

Andrew T

You are correct Andrew the link goes nowhere, I have deleted it. Thanks for that.

01/12/13 – 08:48

1925 WA is believed to be privately owned by a member of the Blackman family, and is sometimes used on wedding and other hires by the same family’s Halifax-based Yorkshire Heritage Buses.

John Stringer

02/12/13 – 13:32

John
Try the following website, www.yorkshireheritagebus.co.uk
Its the Yorkshire Heritage Bus Company based at Luddenden Foot between Sowerby Bridge and Hebden Bridge in the Calder Valley.
Their website shows 525 as part of their collection.
It appears to be minus its fleet number and Sheffield coat of arms on its sides.

Andrew T

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

26/02/17 – 07:09

I was placed on Sheffield 525 as a trainee conductor for about a week on the Herding’s route during the long, bad winter ( ice, more than snow )of 1963 ; very glad of the doors! She was a splendid beast all round I thought. Some years later, when driving, I never got a chance on her, but once volunteered, after duty, to drive 519 back from the centre to East Bank garage just to have a go on a Bridgemaster.
Sheffield, in those days, had transfers in the cab reading ‘Do not rest your foot on the clutch pedal’, and the way out-dated ‘ You are driving a covered top bus’ ! Overtime was referred to as ‘Suet’ for some strange reason.
All in all, Sheffield had a superbly well maintained and turned-out fleet, with staff always correctly attired. I later moved to Manchester Transport at Hyde Road garage and was shocked by both the road staff’s bad attitude and their disregard for full uniform dress. The culture shock also included finding that conductors there were known as ‘Guards’, not forgetting new words like ‘Demic’, meaning something, e.g. a bus, having broken down ” It’s a demic.”
One ‘guard’ I worked with there knew of the incident years before when a Sheffield single deck bus had crashed into, and brought down, part of the Manchester Victoria Railway Station facade. He said, The only good thing to come from Sheffield is the road to Manchester’. The fact that it is also used in reverse seemed not to have registered!
Of interest is that the Neepsend coachwork’s building on Penistone Road was still being completed after production had begun there when a new wall collapsed crushing some part-built bus bodies. That must have been in 1962 ?
I have some interesting correspondence from the late GM, Geoffrey Hilditch, whom I once met, regarding solving issues with Manchester’s trolleybuses and also the many problems adapting the former London Feltham trams to the Leeds system, but I don’t understand this site yet, so not sure where it should go.

Mike C

Sheffield Corporation – AEC Bridgemaster – 2522 WE – 522

Sheffield Corporation AEC Bridgemaster

Sheffield Corporation
1959
AEC Bridgemaster
Park Royal H45/31R

Here we have a shot of one of Sheffield Corporations rear entrance AEC Bridgemaster. There was a shot of a Sheffield front entrance earlier this year (link here) and we had 2 comments disputing information, so I have done a bit of research and come up with the following.
There was six rear entrance Bridgemasters fleet no 519 – 524, 519 was delivered January 1959 and the remaining 5 were delivered in February 1959. Incidentally there was only two other production chassis built before the Sheffield six one for each Walsall no 825 and Belfast no 550, there was five other chassis but they were for AEC themselves demonstrators and test vehicles I suspect. The chassis numbers for the six were 007 – 012, it is not until April 1961 and chassis number 104 that the one and only front entrance Bridgemaster for Sheffield was built making seven in total.
So I hope that this sorts out the query into the number of Sheffield Bridgemasters, (unless you know different), my thanks to Bus lists on the Web (see credits) for most of the information.

519-524 were rear entrance with a row of five rear facing seats, Lodekka style, at the front of the saloon. This covered the gearbox/differential housing – which can be seen at the front of the saloon of all traditional half-cabs. On Bridgemasters, this was extra large – hence the reason on the front entrance version for the doors to be set further back and the strange small window.

David Oldfield

04/05/11 – 07:02

519 was a Commercial Motor Show exhibit in November 1958 prior to delivery. It was something of a tradition for Sheffield to have a new vehicle exhibited at what was then a bi-annual show. These were Sheffield’s first 30ft long double deckers and initially operated for a number of years on the 101 and 102 services to Gleadless and Herdings. They were later moved to the Dinnington services 6 and 19 where their low height enabled them to operate under the low railway bridge at South Anston. They had air suspension on the rear axle which I recall gave quite a bouncy motion as passengers boarded and alighted.

Ian Wild

05/05/11 – 06:53

…..and they hissed audibly.

David Oldfield

I would like to mention that the AEC Bridgemaster No.519 was a show model at Earls Court in September 1958. In early December it arrived at Queens Road and one lunchtime I rushed to the Works to catch a sight of it. My reward was to see the Rolling Stock Engineer, Ted Bale, climb into the cab, saying he was taking it to Leadmill Road. Unfortunately, I was not invited aboard. Taking a 101 route AEC Regent III to city, I alighted near to the depot, arriving there to hear Ted tell the Regulator, “Do a changeover and put it straight into service” on the 101 or 102 Gleadless route. The date was around 10th-12th December 1958.

Keith Beeden