Tag: Strachans

Greyhound – Leyland Tiger PS2/1 – MWA 761 – 107


Copyright Ian Wild

T D Alexander (Greyhound) Sheffield and Arbroath
1950
Leyland Tiger PS2/1
Strachans C32R

Sheffield bought eight of these buses in 1950 for the B fleet. Their O.600 engines gave them an enhanced performance compared with the earlier PS1s. These were the only Strachans bodies bought by Sheffield and were the last new half cab single deckers in the fleet. Five lasted until 1961 (including this one) and the other three until 1962. Seven were bought by Greyhound, the eighth vehicle becoming the first ever mobile library in the City. By the time this photo was taken in 1966 at Greyhound’s Surbiton Street depot deep in the east end of the City at Attercliffe, MWA 761 (ex Sheffield 61) had become a tow wagon with most of the seats removed.
Why did Sheffield go to Strachans for this odd batch having previously bought Weymann and a few Cawood bodies for their post war single deck half cab purchases? Probably cost? At least some of the batch were used from Herries Road Garage on the Stocksbridge local services 257 and 357 where steep hills abounded. According to the PSV Circle, all were delivered with B34R seating but 62/3 later became C33R whilst 60/1 became C32R. Another oddity, why two different variants of ‘coach’ seating?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild

27/02/12 – 07:28

It could have been cost or it could have been availability. If you wanted a few buses in a hurry in the late 1940s you didn’t go to a high-volume bodybuilder, as they were all snowed under with orders. Incidentally I’ve never heard of Cawood. Does anyone know anything about them?

Peter Williamson

28/02/12 – 08:06

I’m pretty sure Cawood were based in the West Riding, somewhere in the Wakefield area. They built ten bodies for Sheffield A and B fleets on Leyland Tiger PS1 chassis in 1948/9. They were contemporaries of similar Weymann bodies supplied on Leyland PS1 and PS2 and AEC Regal. I had forgotten until I was looking up the above that Sheffield also had three PS1 chassis bodied by Wilkes and Meade in 1948 – were they a subsidiary of Wallace Arnold?

Mr Anon

28/02/12 – 08:07

From the deepest depths of memory… Cawoods were a transport firm, possibly in sand & gravel near Doncaster. Cawoods (same??) also had the Rootes dealership in the town in the 50’s. Any connection? “Greyhound” buses around Sheffield got the prize for the most ironic name.

Joe

28/02/12 – 08:08

T W Cawoods & Sons were based at Bentley, near Doncaster. I don’t have exact dates when they were active but they did six rebuild jobs for J Bullock & Sons (1928) Ltd over the period 9/44 to 5/49.

MikeB

28/02/12 – 08:08

I commented on these rare beasts elsewhere on a Strachans conversation. Didn’t really know them (only knew Herries workings well when the 42/53 came to Low Edges) but wasn’t aware they’d ever been made into coaches. Do you KNOW Ian, or is it anecdotal? What is certainly true is what Peter said. Until 1950 Sheffield sourced bodies from Weymann, Cravens and Leyland and after that time from Weymann and Roe until about 1962. In the post war period 1945 – 1950, the preferred builders (of all operators) were unable to keep up with demand – they were often exporting to Government dictate – leading to operators going wherever they could to satisfy their requirements.
Other than in this context, I’d never heard of Cawood but I believe they were a little like Wilkes and Meade who also built post war Tigers for Sheffield. Wilkes and Meade were a Leeds firm who were bought by Wallace Arnold and, after building and rebodying many vehicles for WA, eventually became their body shop – and sunk into oblivion. Roberts provided pre war bodies for Sheffield and then some post war AECs and the last trams, Crossley provided chassis and bodies for anyone in need (!) and NCBs last gasp included about 40 bodies for Sheffield. The quality of the latter was suspect but death duties killed the company who’s physical assets (raw material and machinery) were bought from the receiver by Charles H Roe – so a slight continuum from the 1950 AEC/NCB through the 1950s and 1960s Roe bodies for Sheffield.

David Oldfield

28/02/12 – 17:05

The reason for the conversion to coach seating, at least for some of them, was probably for their use on the Lakeland Tour, on which they performed before being ousted by the Leyland Leopards. I have a photograph of several of them lined up outside the Strines Inn, which was a refreshment stop on the tour. I went on it one summer Sunday with my grandmother, on a new Fanfare bodied Leopard coach, but this machine was likely already in Greyhound’s yard painted red by then.

Dave Careless

28/02/12 – 17:26

David, my information about reseating is taken from the PSV Circle Sheffield fleet lists dated May 1959 and October 1973 both of which refer to fleet numbers 60-63 as ‘later reseated to C33R /C32R’ (as appropriate).

Mr Anon

29/02/12 – 07:08

There you are. You can teach an old dog new tricks – I stand corrected. If they were coach seated, did they ever do Manchesters?
11 or 12 years was a very creditable first life after the introduction of under floors.

David Oldfield

29/02/12 – 14:26

Sheffield Corporation Leyland Tiger MWA 763

Yes, David, they did do Manchester’s, and here’s a photo of 63 at Exchange Street about to undertake a trip on the 48; intriguingly, just across from Sheffield Victoria and the electric service through Woodhead tunnel to the same city. They were also active on the service 39 via The Snake as well.

Dave Careless

29/02/12 – 17:25

Thanks Dave – but look what’s behind, a 1952 Regent/Roe rebuild from the 1938 batch of Regent/Cravens!
Regrettably the 48 went from Pond Street and was operated by North Western by the time I used it regularly.

David Oldfield

01/03/12 – 07:48

Thanks, Dave Carless, for the evocative photo of 63. I used to travel on the 48 with my parents to visit relatives ‘over there’. I can recall the Leyland Olympics on the service when they were new (despite being A fleet buses), a comment I still recall from my mother being that we would travel on a front engined bus ‘as the new ones smelled of diesel fuel’. That was in the days of duplicates, triplicates, quadrupilcates etc etc on the 48. The Strachans bodied PS2s always seemed to me to be superior vehicles and the photo of 63 confirms that view even after all these years. A very elegant looking bus.

Ian Wild

03/03/12 – 17:14

The Strachans bodied PS2’s were also regulars on the the 44 Bakewell via Bamford. They were the height of comfort on the 2 hour trip on the 48 to Manchester – when compared to their predecessors, the Weymann bodied PS1’s. They were a very smart comfortable bus and by couldn’t they fly over Moscar Top

Jerry Wilkes

03/03/12 – 17:37

PS2’s were real flying machines. I don’t remember the Sheffield ones – it was a part of Yorkshire I rarely visited, but my local operator Hebble had six PS2/3’s with Willowbrook DP bodies (BCP 826-830) and boy, could they shift ! At the local Wakes holidays Hebble would employ all sorts of vehicles on the Halifax to Scarborough service, but a PS2 would leave everything else in a cloud of dust, and by the time the Royal Tigers, Regal IV’s and Reliances got there it would be parked up, emptied, cooled down its driver would have finished his dinner and be ready to set off back. Great buses. The Sheffield one shown looks really elegant to me. Strachans had a bad reputation though after the war – did these suffer the same reputation ?

John Stringer

03/03/12 – 17:46

As I said, I had very little contact with these buses but as someone who drives both preserved buses and modern coaches big (engines) is best – so I would expect them to be superior beasts (especially when compared with PS1s). What really puzzles me is why Sheffield had so few PS2s when they waited for PD2s (and by-passed the PD1) for mountainous Sheffield. The Peak District is hardly LESS mountainous!

David Oldfield

04/03/12 – 16:28

One of the former Hebble PS2s, BCP 829 Willowbrook B33F, found its way to Great Yarmouth Corporation, and Geooffrey Hilditch recounts a splendid tale about this bus in his book “Steel Wheels and Rubber Tyres” Vol 2. On one summer Saturday, he received an urgent request from a Midlands operator for a duplicate coach from Great Yarmouth. PS2 No. 17 was the only vehicle available, and when it arrived on the pick up point, this “old fashioned” lady became the subject of much derisory comment from the Bedford driving fraternity, who decided to give No.17 a head start so as not to embarrass the Great Yarmouth driver too much by leaving him well behind. Off went the well loaded PS2, and the Bedford contingent finally caught up with it at the mid point refreshment stop, where they learned to their chagrin that the Great Yarmouth driver had completed his trip, and was now on his way back home.

Roger Cox

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

05/03/12 – 07:54

In halfcab times, there was usually a big difference in performance between single-deckers and double deckers with identical specifications. The PS1 was generally regarded as satisfactory for most purposes, which the PD1 never was (except by expert clutch-stoppers such as Chris Youhill!). Similarly I’ve even heard it said that Crossleys worked well as single deckers!

Peter Williamson

07/03/12 – 08:29

The Sheffield Strachans PS2s Nos 56 to 63, MWA 756 to 763, were new in 1950 and I believe were the last half cab saloons supplied to Sheffield. They lasted until 1961/2 which was pretty average for the species. In fact, No.56 was converted into a mobile library for Sheffield City Libraries in 1962 and went on to serve in that capacity until January 1971 when it was sold for scrap. Sheffield’s six all-Crossley SD42 saloons lasted from 1947 to 1962 adding credence to Peter W’s comment above.

John Darwent

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Tiger – MWA 757 – 57


Copyright R H G Simpson

Sheffield Corporation
1950
Leyland Tiger PS2/1
Strachans B34R

Despite the low fleet number, 57, this was a B fleet vehicle. The computer hadn’t taken over yet. This was one of a batch of eight delivered in 1950. Seen here in Pond Street Bus Station before the concrete and glass version. It could be cold and breezy then but us northerners are made of stern stuff. Ready for service 6 to Kiveton Park in this view but I remember boarding one of these to Eyam on one occasion in the dim and distant past. Photo bought from R H G Simpson many moons ago.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson

10/02/13 – 08:06

Sheffield bought hoards of PS1 Tigers from 1947 but only eleven PS2s. These were a last (half-cab) gasp, the three Weymann examples had been delivered earlier. Apart from the PS1s, there were Weymann/Regals and apart from Weymann PS1s there were five Wilkes and Meade and ten Cawood, already seen on these pages.

David Oldfield

11/02/13 – 07:10

These used to my favourite Sheffield half cab single deckers. I always thought they looked really elegant-but that was from the frontal aspect. This photo shows them to have deep side skirt panels with correspondingly shallow saloon windows. A childhood impression shattered in one photo!!! The 6 to Kiveton Park would be converted to double deck operation in the mid 50s with the arrival of the lowbridge Weymann bodied AECs.

Ian Wild

11/02/13 – 10:19

Yes Ian, but with the 0.600 they would shift…..

David Oldfield

11/02/13 – 10:21

Nice view, Les, but you seem to have caused distress to at least one reader. Go and sit in a darkened room for a week, Ian. You might feel better! I had similar thoughts years ago about a particular steam locomotive. After first seeing it, I spent many years under the impression it was an A4, but it wasn’t . . .

Pete Davies

12/02/13 – 07:03

Yes David, superb performers on the 48 to Manchester

Ian Wild

12/02/13 – 07:04

Going “off piste” mention of A4, I was surprised when I saw a photo of the controls lay out of the recently built “Tornado”, that the controls were exactly the same as the 2-6-2 LNER, Doncaster built tank engine No. 498 which usually pulled our school train to Hamilton (which we sometimes rode illegally on the footplate)

Jim Hepburn

12/02/13 – 10:42

Oh the joys of living pre Health & Safety, Jim.

David Oldfield

12/02/13 – 14:49

On the theme of pre Health & Safety, my friend John Whitaker and I had the free run of climbing into the drivers’ cab of any of the buses at the Bradford Corporation Ludlam Street bus depot on a Sunday morning when it was quiet and there were no bosses around. We were given this freedom by a good neighbour who was a mechanic there, but with the strict instruction not to press the starter button of any of the buses which we pretended to drive. We were still about 11/12 years of age at this time, but what wonderful freedom and trust given by our parents and our neighbour Tony.

Richard Fieldhouse

12/02/13 – 14:50

Ah but never forget, even pre-Health and Safety, it was officially “strengst verboten”! OK Pete, you can’t keep us in suspense any longer. What was the quasi-A4 really and where did you see it? One of the streamlined “East Anglian” B17s or the seemingly jinxed W1 rebuild?

Stephen Ford

12/02/13 – 17:01

An A3, actually, Stephen! 60095 FLAMINGO, at Carlisle in about 1960 or 61. I am supposing it had come off the Waverley route. Looking at views of the two types now, I can understand where I went wrong! It was because of the shape of the firebox. Ah, well!

Pete Davies

R W Jackson – Leyland Royal Tiger – GVN 952

GVN 952

R W Jackson (Cleveland Coaches), Guisborough
1951
Leyland Royal Tiger PSU1/15
Strachans C41C

Strachans (Successors) was in a bad way in the early 1950s. Many of the vehicles supplied to operators in the 1946-1949 period had proven less than robust (due to poor quality timber), a fault shared with bodies produced by Santus and many of the smaller coachbuilders of the time. Nevertheless it was obvious that the firm would have to offer bodywork for the new underfloor engined coach chassis, and in 1951 the company produced its first five such bodies, all on Royal Tigers. Four went to Valliant of Ealing as WMT 321-324, and the fifth to Jackson of Guisborough (east of Middlesborough on the inland road to Whitby) as illustrated here. The “Cleveland Coaches” fleetname came from the Cleveland Hills which were there for several million years before Ted Heath invented the county of Cleveland!
It wasn’t a bad design, although one suspects that the front corners owed more than a little to Windover’s “Kingsway” design. No more of this style were built as Strachans introduced their new “Strathrae” design in early 1952, and this was then replaced by the better known “Everest” model in 1954. Does anybody know what happened to GVN 952 after Jackson sold it? And does anybody have a shot of one of the Valliant machines?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Neville Mercer

25/07/14 – 05:48

The reversed flashes round the front wheelarch give this coach a curious pushme-pullyou look! Of course full fronts were a new challenge for most coachbuilders at that time.
At least we know the chassis would have been solid and reliable!

Andrew Goodwin

26/07/14 – 06:45

It’s worse than that, Andrew. Adding to your observation is that the way in which the body flows downwards at the rear as in the front, giving a distinct impression that two fronts have been glued together! It even seems to have an early Morris Minor front grill fitted!
It’s not quite an ‘Ugly Bus’ contender, but close.

Chris Hebbron

26/07/14 – 06:45

The Aldershot & District Dennis Dominant HOU 900 had similarly styled front and rear wings as built in 1950, but, in the course of its career, the “Tracco” removed these strange embellishments in favour of straightforward, simple wheel arches. On the matter of Strachans quality, it cannot have been as bad as some of the ‘mushroom’ bodybuilders of the forties and fifties, as the Dominant lasted for some fifteen years with A&D, and was apparently sold on for further service, though I am not sure where it went.

Roger Cox

26/07/14 – 06:46

It’s a very impressive looking coach but it could have looked so much better with deeper windscreens. It’s strange how so many coachbuilders at the time felt the need for the bottom edge of the screens (on underfloor engined chassis) to curve upwards to the centre and yet others proved it was quite unnecessary. Perhaps it was a carry over from producing full front bodywork on front engined chassis.
The side has a decent line to it, the reversed flashes around the wheelarches do look a bit odd but no doubt another quirk of the time was that the front end had to match the rear. It certainly looks to be of substantial construction but that was nothing to go by as far as Strachans were concerned!

Chris Barker

27/07/14 – 06:50

According to available fleet lists, Jacksons were taken over by Saltburn Motor Services in 1957 and their four vehicles included this one. Saltburn operated it until 1962 but there doesn’t appear to be any further details.

Chris Barker

29/05/19 – 05:33

R. W. Jackson
Were taken over by Saltburn Motor Services in 1957 GVN 952 later passed to Moore & Cartwright a building contractor of Norton -on- Tees, Teeside in September 1964 no trace thereafter.

Alan Coulson

Brighton Corporation – Leyland Panther Cub – NUF 137G – 37

Brighton Corporation - Leyland Panther Cub - NUF 137G - 37

Brighton Corporation
1968
Leyland Panther Cub PSRC1/1
Strachans B??D

This photo shows No 37 one of Brighton Corporation’s three Leyland Panther Cubs No’s 36-38 registration NUF 136-138G with Strachans B–D bodywork, listed on some other sites as B43F which is obviously incorrect as it can clearly be seen to have a centre exit. A further four with Marshall B43F bodies followed on as No’s 39-42 registration NUF 139-142G so maybe 36-38 were to the same layout. The Panther Cub was a fairly rare beast as less than a hundred were built in total and of those only seven had Strachans bodies three for Thomas Bros of South Wales and a demonstrator YTB 771D which was bought by Eastbourne Corporation some time after being used by them as transport for delegates at the 1967 MPTA conference held in the town (Municipal Passenger Transport Association). I worked for Eastbourne Corporation at that time and drove YTB both during the conference and after it was bought by them and numbered 92 and always found it to be a pleasant lively vehicle to drive if a bit raucous.
The manager at that time Mr R. R Davies said the interior Formica panelling pattern looked like a coffee bar.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave

06/04/14 – 11:29

The Panthers we had at Percy Main were the B48D Marshall Camair bodied PSRU1A1R version, and they too had somewhat garish interiors. Whoever designed the cab layout obviously never had to drive one, if they did they must have been a contortionist. Being a semi auto with no clutch pedal, the designer must have been under the impression that they would only be driven by drivers who didn’t have a left leg. The gearchange was positioned in such a way that it was almost impossible to get into or out of the dammed thing unless you had supreme manoeuvring skills, and once in you couldn’t get comfortable as you had nowhere to put your left leg.

Ronnie Hoye

06/04/14 – 18:23

I know just what you mean Ronnie. At Halifax we had three ex-Yorkshire Traction Marshall-bodied Leopard PSU4’s which had exactly the same layout. In order to get installed into the cab seat I used to have to climb onto, then over it into the tight space at the other side with both legs, sit down then swivel anticlockwise into position. Then, unless you wound the seat almost down into the floor, your upper legs were jammed tight under the large steering wheel rim, which would rub against them as you steered. Then of course you had to go through the reverse of all that procedure when you came to get out.
Having said all that, though cab ergonomics have improved a bit since then, I honestly can’t say that I’m ever comfortable in any of today’s buses, and nearly always finish a stint in one with pains in my back and legs.

John Stringer

06/04/14 – 18:23

I think all 7 were dual door originally. Someone else may know whether they were subsequently rebuilt as single, as happened in many fleets

John Carr

07/04/14 – 12:46

I have happy memories of travelling to school on Manchester Corporation’s Panther Cubs on Middleton local service 142. Queens Road Depot had nos. 72/74/76/78 and 80 (BND 872C etc) and any one of these would appear each morning on the 142; far more interesting than travelling on the school bus, which was always a PD2. The performance was impressively lively; I remember that one driver always started in 3rd gear, and another started in 2nd but then went straight to 4th.
I don’t know about the driving position causing problems, Manchester’s Panther Cubs had the miniature gear lever attached to the steering column. However the front platform doors were operated by the driver’s left foot (the centre exit doors being opened by a sixth position on the gear lever), I can’t remember seeing any of them struggle to reach the door pedal.

Don McKeown

07/04/14 – 15:16

I think your drivers were trying to wreck the gearbox as they disliked the Panther Cubs. I was once on a Halifax Dennis Loline III fitted with a 5 speed semi-auto gearbox and the driver started from each stop in 3rd gear, thinking it was 2nd as on a Fleetline. Giving plenty of body vibration! bus and passengers alike!

Geoff S

08/04/14 – 07:51

5-speed semi-autos could be a problem in fleets that also had 4-speed ones. Bristol Omnibus had 4-speed RELL buses and 5-speed RELH coaches and DPs. When the RELHs were cascaded to bus use, the drivers treated gears 2,3,4&5 exactly like 1,2,3&4 on the RELLs, changing up far too early and never letting the engine get into its stride. They must have wondered why these former “express” vehicles were so much more sluggish than the local ones!

Peter Williamson

10/04/14 – 07:38

NUF 136G
NUF 137G

Here are two more pictures from 1970 of the Brighton Corporation Strachans bodied Panther Cubs. 36, NUF 136G is seen at Preston Park, with the impressive railway viaduct behind it, and 37, NUF 137 is in Old Steine, Brighton.

NUF 141G

The later Marshall bodied version is represented here by 41, NUF 141G heading north on the A23 towards Preston Drove, with an array of British built cars in the background – those were the days!

Roger Cox

31/12/16 – 17:09

All of the Panther Cubs for Brighton were dual door from new & remained as such throughout their short lives. They were all withdrawn by 1975. They had been Brighton Corporations first single deckers & it would be 1983 before any more arrived.

Malcolm Pelling

Maidstone & District – Leyland Panther – LKT 132F – 3132

Maidstone & District - Leyland Panther - LKT 132F - 3132

Maidstone & District
1968
Leyland Panther PSUR1/1R
Strachans B48F

LKT 132F is a Leyland Panther PSUR1/1R new to Maidstone & District in 1968. It has a Strachan B48F body, somewhat unusual for a BET firm, and we see it in the Netley rally on 14 July 1996 so the body at least is more or less ‘home’ as Strachans later products were built just along the road in Hamble. The Parish Council calls it Hamble Le Rice now, and it’s nothing to do with puddings. In this sense, it means ‘rich’.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

20/11/16 – 15:48

Yes its a standard BET front, but the livery does a great deal to hide the uneven window and panel spacing layout. Just by example if you were to look at Liverpool 1097 currently in the heading on the ‘other’ bus blog page, it shows how neat this one really is. Its a pity we don’t have sound on here as Panther exhausts were in a class of their own.

Mike Norris

21/11/16 – 07:54

Mike there is a section on here for bus noises. To be found at the ‘More pages’ tab top right in the menu, then select “Old Bus Sounds”.

Stephen Howarth

05/11/17 – 07:30

With reference to 3251 (ex SO251) as I knew it when I drove it. This was always a delightful vehicle to drive and was usually requested by our depot engineer – Ernie Marks – at Gravesend. I remember using it on many runs to High Halstow, Cliffe and also Meopham & Harvel. I have a photo slide of it taken when I used it.
With reference to S1-S5 or 3701-5, again when I drove all of them, these would often tread there way onto the 122 London to Brighton run and I had the pleasure of driving them between Gravesend and Tunbridge Wells. The only problem I found was the bodywork rattle caused by over-inflated tyres, something which Tunbridge Wells was usually in favour of. Hence, all vehicles from both garages had bodies that were shaken to pieces – sometimes almost literally!

Freddy Weston

09/11/17 – 07:14

Although my memory is not so good nowadays, I have to hand a fleet allocation list for 1st October 1971. From that it looks as if Freddy’s and Ernie Marks’ favourite Reliance 3251 had left the fleet by then. 3701-6 are shown as allocated to Tonbridge and 3125 was allocated to Maidstone. With regard to comments about high tyre pressures, it is relevant that M&D had three tyre mileage contractors in 1970. I think Gravesend and possibly Borough Green were covered by Michelin who would only have used radial ply tyres which have more flexible walls. The Tunbridge Wells district (inc Tonbridge, Hawkhurst and Edenbridge) was covered by Firestone with cross ply tyres which may have felt harder. Dunlop was the third contractor. This made it a bit difficult when vehicles were re-allocated across contracts! Around 1971, Dunlop were contracted to cover the whole fleet using a new centralised tyre workshop for fitting new and re-grooving tyres. Mobile inspectors examined the fleet regularly for pressure and tread depth. Each depot had a supply of wheel assemblies with fit tyres for failures in service. An interesting aspect of this was that quite a few vehicles were found to be fitted with wheels of the incorrect offset, so a supply of new wheels had to be bought to facilitate a sorting out!

Geoff Pullin

PS – I meant to add that Panthers 3131 and 3135 were delicensed for repair of fire damage and 3127 for major body repairs! Engine compartment fires were a bit endemic for Panthers and also Reliances at the time. As I have said elsewhere, M&D found that the Willowbrook bodied Panthers were better than the Strachans bodies which suffered a lot of panel movement and aluminium dust permeating the insides. They were strengthened by a scheme devised by Willowbrook!

Western S M T – Gilford Zeus – WG 1619 – 723

Western S.M.T - Gilford Zeus

Western Scottish Motor Traction Co. Limited
1933
Gilford Zeus
Strachans H24/24R

The above photograph (from the Dave Jones Collection) is of a Gilford Zeus outside the Bellfield Works in High Wycombe. This was Gilford’s third attempt to get into double decker vehicle market after the 168DOT and the failed front wheel drive double decker which was later converted into a trolleybus. Two were built, the first appearing at the Glasgow Show of 1932 before being registered in 1933 for use as a  Gilford demonstrator before passing to Western S.M.T (Fleet number 723), and the second being sold direct to Western S.M.T (Fleet number 722). The two vehicles were originally fitted with different engines, the demonstrator a Vulcan Juno and the later one a Tangye VM6, but both are believed to have had Leyland oil engines fitted before entering service.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Andrew Stevens

22/04/12 – 16:42

A very smart modern-looking bus for its time, apart from the rather scrunched-up windscreen. The radiator suits the body style very well. I always had a soft spot for Gilford and was sorry it failed, partly due to the takeover of independents by newly-formed London Transport. Western SMT were staunch supporters of the marque at this time, taking quite a few coaches for their long-distance services. I wonder how long they lasted and their histories until scrapping. I was never good company at funfairs: a stomach not suited to revolving at high speed, restricted me to dodgems, big dippers, but certainly not waltzers! Thus, I tended to walk around the showmens’ vehicles and enjoy the fare on display there. I always remember seeing a Gilford Hera on one occasion, the only Gilford I ever saw.

Chris Hebbron

23/04/12 – 05:35

Don’t know when, but 723 transferred to Sandersons of Glasgow and I don’t know any history after that. 722 was withdrawn from service in 1944 and also transferred to Sandersons with no subsequent history.

Andrew Stevens

23/04/12 – 05:36

I have never come across a Gilford myself but every mention of them is always in a positive light – always said to be superb vehicles. As Chris says, circumstances – the customer base disappearing – overtook the firm with disastrous effects.
I lived in High Wycombe for fifteen years and know Bellfield well – never realised that Gilford were based there. I don’t think they left a trace when they moved back to London.

David Oldfield

23/04/12 – 05:51

The very interesting subject of Gilfords reminds me that a group are restoring a single decker that started in life with Fred Oade of Heckmondwike. The company is still in business although nowadays they are undertakers the coaching side of the business was sold to Yorkshire Woollen in 1960. The vehicle is WX 3567 and was new in 1930. Oades sold it in 1934 and according to The PSV Circle it passed through several different owners and allegedly was sold for scrap in 1938 although obviously this never happened as I believe it was found in a barn.

Philip Carlton

24/04/12 – 06:53

I actually saw ‘WX’ last week and it’s coming along. The survivor list may take some by surprise, with two vehicles, a DF6 and an AS6 I believe road-worthy, along with an AS6, a 166SD, two 168SD’s (one converted to OT) and a 168OT currently under restoration. There is also a Hera chassis at the SVBM. Would be nice to get them all roadworthy and together in the future – here’s hoping. Unfortunately Bellfield works has now been demolished so there certainly is no trace left of the company, and few people in Wycombe seem to know of their existence, something I hope to put right somehow.

Andrew Stevens

07/03/14 – 16:14

My father was a bus driver with Western SMT from 1945 till his retirement in 1976. His normal route was Irvine Harbour via Montgreenan to Kilwining Railway Station, wait 10 minutes and drive back. Only one single decker bus operated on this route. Due to the demand for the service on a Sunday a double decker was used. One Sunday my father forgot about the low bridge at Irvine harbour and took the complete top of the decker. For this he was suspended for a week without pay. Having no Driver the following Sunday, the Chief Inspector drove the route and put the decker under the same bridge. Father wages were duly restored.
After WW2 there was a shortage of reliable buses. Western decided to buy bare chassis from Leyland and have them bodied at Alexanders Falkirk. All that Leyland supplied was a bare chassis and a temporary seat. drivers had to wrap up well and on some occasion had to be lifted from the seat as their clothes were frozen solid.
After the war Western started their Glasgow to London night Service, on one Glasgow Fair 110 coaches left Glasgow in convoy for London, the journey time was 15 hours with refreshment stops there were no toilets on these buses.
During the 1960’s a Day service was introduced. all the coaches were two driver operated as was the night service. Only the senior drivers were allowed on the day service and they got all the new and best coaches. The engines on these coaches had no engine governor and have been clocked at over 90 mph. The time was now down to ten hours, there were no Motorways at this time. The drivers would swap driving positions without stopping or reducing speed. The goal was to get into London Waterloo early, and give themselves more free time.
In June 1967 my Father took delivery of the first Volvo coach with one piece wrap round windscreen. The coach was delivered factory fitted straight to the bus stance at Glasgow, it had not been checked over by Western mechanics. I was on this coach on its return journey from London To Glasgow. We were traveling on a dual carriageway when we were overtaken by a lorry with a flapping tarpaulin the Tarpaulin caught the driver mirror swung it through the windscreen. due to the increase in internal pressure the back window popped out. Midland Red had an agreement with Western in the event of an accident or breakdown they would supply a replacement coach in this case the replacement would mean a six hour delay. The drivers on consulting the passengers decided to press on, the weather was dry and sunny temperature approx, 24 degree’s.
Two miles after turning at Scots corner a rear tyre punctured caused by going over windscreen glass. The coach had a spare wheel and nut runner but no jack. The lorry following us was driven by an ex-colleague of my fathers who just happened to have a heavy duty jack, 15 min’s. later we were back on the road. the coach arrived in Glasgow 5 min’s behind schedule. The tips for each of the two drivers were more than a weeks wages each. We stayed in Fenwick at that time. during WW2 there was a bus service. Ayr via Kilmarnock and Fenwick to Glasgow with a bus frequency of one every 90 seconds and the buses were packed. The regulations during the war were 28 standing downstairs and 12 standing up stairs.
One memorable bus registration number TJ 9090 this was a second hand six wheeled Leyland with seating for 109, standing room bottom deck 35, top deck 20. On a Saturday afternoons fully loaded you could pass her on your bicycle going up Beansburn Brae

Gilbert Wilson

12/09/14 – 06:13

There is the chassis of an ex-Alexander Gilford Hera on show at the Scottish Vintage Bus Museum. It has a Leyland petrol engine taken out of a Titan converted to diesel.

Stephen Allcroft

15/09/15 – 06:46

Having just noticed the comment about this bus being sold to Sandersons of Glasgow in 1944, the Sanderson family traded at the time as Millburn Motors and were dealers and breakers. At later dates they owned controlling stakes in Lowland Motorways and Northern Roadways, the dealership later became S & N Motors.

Stephen Allcroft

Charles Rickards – Dodge S307 – AYV 94B


Copyright Steve Vallance

Charles Rickards
1964
Dodge S307/190T
Strachans C42F

In the early Sixties, Chrysler launched an attempt to enter the UK psv market, using the Dodge name. The chassis was placed in the “medium duty” category, heavier than a Bedford/Thames, for example, whilst lighter than the AEC/Leyland range. A Leyland engine was planned for the chassis.
In 1964, after they had changed the specification several times, Charles Rickards of Brentford took delivery of five of the S307/190T model, which had Perkins 6.354 diesel engines, which, together with higher-geared rear axles and five-speed gearboxes, were to give the vehicles a top speed of over 70 mph. The engine was mounted at the front of the vehicle, although the front axle was set back to provide an entrance ahead of the front wheels. They were designed for medium-distance touring, although they seemed to spend a lot of time on sightseeing duties in and around London, frequenting Hampton Court Palace quite a lot. This view shows one on duty around Heathrow Airport, possibly in later years..
The C42F body was by Strachans, some of the last bodies they produced. They seemed to have novel opening windows.
Only one other Dodge coach chassis was built, an S308 demonstrator, with a Leyland engine and a Weymann body.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron

29/09/14 – 07:42

Remarkably similar to post Topaz MCW coach body – especially the front. The fact that they share the BET screen adds to this impression – as do a slightly unfocussed frontal treatment and the plain, “honest box” overall style. It is nowhere near ugly; it simply doesn’t thrill!

David Oldfield

29/09/14 – 11:15

Strachans made the most successful if not best bodies for the AEC Swift/Merlin – due to a design which was unique at the time. They were around quite some time but never made the big time. What were their bodies really like? How good were they? How good were these on the Dodges? […..and I never came across any of these Dodges. How good were they – or were they simply Dodgy?]

David Oldfield

29/09/14 – 15:26

I was at Rickards from 1965 and seem to remember the Dodges’ as pretty reliable but a bit noisy and so they were kept on the service from the British Eagle terminal at Knightsbridge to Heathrow as the guides complained about the engine noise when used on sightseeing tours. They were repainted in British Eagle livery for this work, Rickards being part of the same group at the time.

John Hodkinson

29/09/14 – 18:53

One of their successful designs was the Pacemaker, which sold in modest numbers around the country. Those AEC Swift/Merlins which lasted with London Transport (usually the ones modified to become Red Arrows) served a term of about 15 years and the bodies are reported to have been well-made.
With only six of the Dodges built, it would have been a miracle to see one, but I wish I had!
It maybe that the bodies do lack the ‘look-back’ factor, but I admire their clean lines, all very parallel!
Does anyone have a record of their later lives, and that of the demonstrator?

Chris Hebbron

30/09/14 – 06:30

David, I’m not sure which MCW coach body you’re referring to. This one, //tinyurl.com/lhn8bse  called the Metropolitan, has a front dome which is identical to the Strachans body, but uses a single-curvature windscreen instead of the BET unit. Strangely, production of the last 10 of these Metropolitans was subcontracted to Strachans. There would have been more but the orders dried up.
Strachans reputation was patchy to say the least, especially on the double deck front. But as you say, the Swift/Merlins were very well thought of, and the same was true of the Panthers they built for Sunderland (the Panther using the same chassis frame as the Swift/Merlin of course).

Peter Williamson

30/09/14 – 18:32

Yes I did mean the Metropolitan. I think if you look closely, it is the same screen.

David Oldfield

01/10/14 – 05:50

Strachans also built a lot of bodies on Bedford SB chassis, for the armed forces, which were long-lasting.
But others, as Peter W mentions, were not of good quality.
Thx, John H, for some insight into the characteristics of these vehicles. Maybe the Perkins engines, rather than the planned Leyland ones were noisier in operation.
One would have thought that more engine insulation was achievable.

Chris Hebbron

01/10/14 – 11:54

The pioneer production chassis with front engine and set back front axle, at least in Britain, was the Maudslay SF40 of 1934 which achieved quite reasonable sales until production was halted by WW2. The petrol engined version was more satisfactory than the diesel options, which employed the heavier and bulkier Gardner 4LW or 5LW, neither of which offered great refinement or dazzling road performance. Post war, the same concept was revived in the Guy Wulfrunian, which suffered by having the physically large Gardner 6LX cantilevered forward of the front wheels. All the other manufacturers who adopted the same design principle opted to reduce the load on the front axle by fitting small, high revving engines in the overhang. Bedford, Ford and Seddon, and Volvo with the Ailsa ‘decker, all followed this course. The very basic US Blue Bird school bus, sometimes seen around US air bases in Britain, is probably the most commercially successful example of the concept. The lightweight Dodge S306 (Leyland O.370) and S307 (Perkins 6.354) of 1962 were the first proper psv chassis to come from the Kew factory, and some thought seemed to have gone into the design which offered vacuum- or air-hydraulic operation of the braking system, and a five speed constant mesh (later synchromesh) gearbox. The drawbacks proved to be the very constricted front entrance steps, the awkward gear lever arrangement inherent in the mounting of a gearbox directly behind the front engine, but, most importantly, the high noise level within the vehicle. The O.370 was by no means a quiet engine, but the Perkins 6.354 was raucous in the extreme, and no amount of engine cover padding could have muffled its din. Most of the limited sales of Dodges were bodied as buses, but, as Chris has shown, Rickards did take some as coaches. I can well appreciate that they were not popular in such a role. Dodge withdrew the S306/S307 from the market in 1967. The side windows in these Strachans bodies appear to be of the ‘Auster’ type, which Aldershot & District fitted to the front upper deck windows of its Lolines. These were hopper windows which had the upper half permanently fixed outwards at about 45 degrees, and the lower part could be pulled inwards from the closed position through about 90 degrees to regulate the degree of ventilation. They worked well at the front of a double decker; I cannot believe that they were truly effective as fitted in the coach bodies shown.

Roger Cox

02/10/14 – 07:58

The side vent windows certainly look like the Auster product and look to be pairs of the standard vent per bay. Very similar to the vents on the BMMO C5.

Phil Blinkhorn

02/10/14 – 08:01

Thx, Roger, for the very interesting and informative information. I’ve always had a soft spot for the Maudslay SF40, which always seemed to have wonderful art deco bodies, the image only spoilt by the obvious starting handle!
When you look at the photo of the Dodge, you can see how narrow the door seems to be and imagine how tortuous the steps must have been to get around the engine bulge.

auster

I’d never heard of the Auster draughtproof windows, but here is a 1955 advert illustrating how they were supposed to work. I wonder if the company was part of the aircraft factory.

Chris Hebbron

02/10/14 – 11:3402/10/14 – 11:34

CH It looks like it is, and they made windows for other people as well. //mgaguru.com/mgtech/windscrn/

John Lomas

03/10/14 – 06:58

On the C5, Phil, the angled Auster windows are sort-of replicated by shape by the windscreen angles.
Thx, John L, and second half of the Auster TRIPLEX name is very well-known.

Chris Hebbron

03/10/14 – 11:06

Chris Hebron queries the possibility of a link between the Auster vent manufacturer and the aircraft manufacturer. The only link could be that the former may (and I can find no proof that it did or did not) have supplied screens or locks to the latter.
The Auster Company of Birmingham was founded in 1841 and was eventually incorporated in 1897. From the early 1900s they made a variety of screens, vents, axles, motor and coach fittings springs and other ironwork, mostly for the automotive industry.
In 1937 it went into aircraft parts making windscreens, cockpit covers and other parts and continued in this endeavour during WW2.
The Auster Aircraft company started life in 1938 as Taylorcraft Aircraft (England) Ltd at Thurmaston, Leicester, building licenced copies of the American Taylorcraft designs. Widely used as observation aircraft by the RAF and Army and Canadian Forces during and after WW2 the company’s UK products became one of the leading UK suppliers of private light aircraft post war, in part due to import restrictions on foreign built aircraft. With a manufacturing plant at Syston and final assembly at Rearsby the company built over 1600 aircraft during WW2. On March 7 1946 the name of the company was changed to Auster Aircraft and production was transferred to Rearsby. The company became part of Beagle Aircraft in 1960 when Pressed Steel Company took over Auster and Miles Aircraft. The Rearsby facility became Beagle-Auster, the Miles facility at Shoreham became Beagle-Miles. In 1965 Beagle was taken over by the British Motor Corporation which immediately sought finance from the UK government which bought the company in 1966. After various attempts to gain a solid market, the company was dissolved in 1969. Many Austers are still on the British register and the Beagle Bulldog, which first flew just as the company was being dissolved and was later manufactured by Scottish Aviation and then BAe, became a reasonable success selling 320 copies mainly to air forces. Last built in 1976 a number remain in military service and a few fly as private aircraft.

Further information to confirm that the two Auster companies had no real connection is that the aircraft company was founded by A L Wykes, Managing Director of Crowthers Ltd., a textile machinery company of Thurmaston. In 1938 he travelled to the USA and negotiated a licence agreement to build Taylorcraft aircraft in the UK, the UK company being registered on November 21 1938

Phil Blinkhorn

03/10/14 – 17:26

The relationship between BMC and liquidation will not be lost here, although in 1969 the worst was yet to be….

Joe

03/10/14 – 17:26

I have been reading the article on Dodge/Strachans vehicles, which claims only 6 built including a demo, I have 6 with Rickards?
Rickard,W2 AYV 93B Dodge S307/190T S307 8311 Stn 52140 C41F 6/64
Rickard,W2 AYV 94B Dodge S307/190T S307 8571S Stn 52141 C41F 7/64
Rickard,W2 AYV 95B Dodge S307/190T S307 8590 Stn 54142 C41F 7/64
Rickard,W2 AYV 96B Dodge S307/190T S307 9430 Stn 54143 C39F 7/64
Rickard,W2 AYV 97B Dodge S307/190T S307 9404S Stn 54144 C39F 7/64
Rickard,W2 AYV 98B Dodge S307/190T S307 9411 Stn 54145 C38F 7/64
Used on British Eagle contracts.
I remember seeing these on day trips to Margate.
Can anyone tell me what registration was the elusive Demonstrator S308 mentioned in the text?
Photo credit of AYV 84B I believe should go to Steve Vallance coach and bus, an uncropped view is on facebook.

Ron

04/10/14 – 06:42

Thx for clarifying the Auster Aircraft situation, Phil.
From Ron’s info (thx) it’s intriguing that the number of seats went down and down for the last vehicles. One wonders if this was an attempt to ease the entrance congestion, or maybe to get the front passengers away from the noise!!!
Incidentally, my photo was bought at a bus rally a couple of years ago, with a blank reverse.

Chris Hebbron

04/10/14 – 06:43

Pleased to read Ron’s comment that he thought there were 6 Dodges. I too was thinking there were 6, not 5, but putting it down to a ‘senior moment’!
(AYV 92B was a Bedford Val/Yeates. also very unpopular with guides for having a noisy engine)

John Hodkinson

15/07/15 – 05:58

To clarify matters on the subject of demonstrators Bus Lists On The Web lists two, both 42-seat buses, Leyland-engined 2496PK had a Weymann body and was new in September 1962. Perkins engined 3033PE had a Marshall body, was first registered in March 1964 and ended up on the Isle of Harris with a Leyland engine and is seen here:

Stephen Allcroft

02/03/16 – 07:08

I’m unusually late to this conversation, even by my own standards – but I hope the following might still be of interest . . . the fact that it’s so tardy might give a clue as just how difficult it is to gather information about London’s coach operators.
Charles Rickards (Tours) Ltd business was originally in the provision of sightseeing tours, since 1946 these were marketed as “Universal Sightseeing Tours” after the company of that name (founded 1933) was taken over. Subsequently transfer services between Heathrow and central London were operated for a number of airlines: at differing times services were provided for Aerolineas Argentinas, British Eagle, Loftleidir Airways, PanAm, TWA, and United Arab Airlines – the last transfer services (for PanAm and TWA, to Victoria) ceased in November 1981). Rail-Air Link services were developed, in conjunction with British Railways, from 1963, when a service was established between Heathrow and High Wycombe; subsequently services were provided to Woking and Watford (a service to Reading being provided by Thames Valley). It was the development of operations based on Heathrow Airport that led, in 1965, to the offices and garage being moved to Glenhurst Road, Brentford from Paddington.
In 1965 ownership of Rickards was acquired by British Eagle International Airlines, one of the principal independent UK scheduled airlines of that time. British Eagle wished to provide its passengers with an improved service between its London terminal at Knightsbridge and Heathrow – ownership of Rickards would provide a competitive edge over rival airlines. A number of Rickards coaches (c17% fleet strength) were painted in the British Eagle colours of red/grey/black – around 9000 journeys were made per week on the British Eagle transfer services. 1967 was not a good year for the UK airline industry: the Arab-Israeli “Six Day War”, a military coup in Greece, Spanish tightening of border restrictions on Gibraltar, and a 15% reduction in the valuation of the pound, all conspired against the airline industry by reducing the demand for international travel – as part of an all-round belt tightening British Eagle disposed of its Rickards subsidiary to Frames’ Tours Ltd in 1967. British Eagle ceased trading in November 1968.
Frames’ business was largely British and continental extended tours, with around 95% of clients being from overseas (the overwhelming majority from the USA and Canada) – Rickards operations, Heathrow-London transfers and day-tours, must have seemed a good addition. Frames’ head office was at 25-31 Tavistock Place WC1, and their garage and coach station at Herbrand St WC1 – Frames utilised the basement whilst Daimler Hire Ltd (later Hertz) used the upper floors for garaging, with their work-shop being situated on the top floor. During the early 1970s a subsidiary company, Frames’ Travel (Gatwick) Ltd, operated from a base near Redhill.
The Frames and Rickards businesses were merged as Frames-Rickards Ltd in 1983. Immediately prior to amalgamation the fleet strenghts were: Frames, 20 heavy-weights, all with bodies less than 5y (roughly the same fleet size as 1967); Rickards, 17 heavy-weights (four in Heathrow-Woking Rail-Air livery), 5 light-weights, and 1 mini-bus (just under a 50% reduction in fleet size since 1967, but with a similar age profile of 1-10y). The combined Frames-Rickards business was acquired by Golden Tours (founded 1984, and against whom Frames-Rickards had objected to the granting of licenses) in 2001. The Herbrand St premises were redeveloped as offices for the current occupier from 2002.
Frames’ livery was originally two-tone blue, but around 1977 changed to black with red fleet-name and flag logo. Rickards’ livery was a two-tone maroon with black relief, with a Royal Warrant carried since 1936.

Philip Rushworth

08/05/16 – 05:58

One more can be added to the list of Dodge chassis although not an S307.
In 1964 Plaxton built a dual entrance coach for Penn Overland Transport, Jamaica. It is illustrated on page 51 of “Plaxton 100 Years” (ISBN 07110 3209 2).
It had Dodge chassis S305-190 8454, Plaxton C30D body 642341, and was delivered in June 1964.

John Kaye

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

26/01/18 – 05:14

For the Rickards bodies on the Dodge chassis, if I remember rightly the chassis was a nightmare for body mounting. Someone who worked at Rickards may be able to comment more but I think that the chassis frame was not flat and the main rails were not parallel. As this body was more of a coach style, the stepwell needed to be as large as possible. I spent a lot of hours with Dave Hoy, the senior designer, on our knees on the full size layout tables designing the front end.

Dick Henshall

Aldershot & District – Dennis Lancet – LAA 228 – 193

LAA 228

Aldershot & District Traction Co
1953
Dennis Lancet III J10C
Strachan FC38R

In 1948, Aldershot & District took delivery of fifteen Dennis Lancet J3 coaches with Strachans C32R bodies. These replaced the externally very similar Lancet II/Strachans C32R vehicles of 1937-38, the main difference being the longer bonnet of the Lancet III which housed the 7.58 litre O6 in place of the 6.5 litre O4 in the pre war model. These post war machines were very fine coaches giving a high standard of refinement. The 24 valve, wet liner, O6 engine was probably the smoothest running diesel engine of all time, and, coupled with the Dennis “O” type five speed gearbox, it was capable of excellent performance on the road. However, by the early 1950s, the traditional half cab, heavy duty, front engined coach was regarded as passe in major fleets, having been supplanted by the fashionably new underfloor engined machine. Even small independents had begun taking the superficially more modern Bedford SB. In 1950, Aldershot & District bought one of the only two Dennis Dominants ever completed (a third was constructed in chassis form only and subsequently dismantled), but had been obliged to look elsewhere for an underfloor engined chassis when Dennis decided not to produce that model in quantity. In 1953, wishing to upgrade its image, but still undecided about the underfloor configuration, Aldershot & District tried out a number of underfloor engined machines from a variety of manufacturers – Guy (Arab LUF), Atkinson (PM 744 & 745), Leyland (Tiger Cub) and Dennis (Lancet UF). Surprisingly, in view of later developments, AEC was not represented in these trials. The story of the Aldershot and District demonstrators may be found at this link.
Instead the company sought to update the coach fleet with 15 full fronted examples of the 30 feet long and 8 feet wide J10C Lancet, with Strachan FC38R bodywork, Nos.188-202, LAA 223-237. These were attractive coaches of traditional appearance, though the effect was spoiled slightly by the cheap looking wire mesh grille, the apparent frailty of which seemed to to be endorsed by the dents that it soon acquired in service. Like all Lancets, these coaches were excellent, smooth running, reliable machines, though the drivers” cabs reputedly became unpleasantly hot, particularly so in the summer months. Aware that these coaches presented an outdated image in a world increasingly dominated by modern, underfloor engined vehicles, Aldershot & District succumbed in 1954 to the lure of the AEC Reliance, purchasing twenty-five examples of the MU3RV model with the 6.75 litre AH410 engine. Angular Strachans Everest C41C bodies were fitted with a high floor level and corresponding waistline. The arrival of the Reliances resulted in the relegation of the full fronted Lancets from regular express work to other duties, and they were all withdrawn in 1963 after a relatively short life of ten years. In the photograph, taken at Victoria in 1960, No.193, LAA 228, its windscreen significantly open wide, is laying over in the company of one of the Strachans bodied Reliances. Behind is LCD 857, one of Southdown”s Beadle rebuilds with FC35C bodywork, 30ft long and 8ft wide on 7ft 6ins chassis sections. This coach was constructed using the units of pre war Leyland Tiger TS8 EUF 96, and retained the 8.6 litre oil engine. Like the full fronted Aldershot & District Lancets, this vehicle (and its fellows) was sold in 1963.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

04/11/19 – 06:15

How surprising in 1953 for such buses/coaches to be delivered to a “substantial” company? Times had already moved on e.g. Ribble with its Leyland/Leyland coaches in 1951 and Tilling with the LS/ECW “beauties” in 1952. A nice story Roger, thank you.

Stuart Emmett

05/11/19 – 06:12

SOU 446

This picture, taken in 1961 in The Grove alongside Aldershot Bus Station – now long gone, the current bus station is a pitiful apology of a facility – shows the Winchester outstation based 1958 Dennis Loline I 338, SOU 446, with East Lancashire H37/31RD body, passing a pair of the fine 1948 Lancet III coaches with Strachans C32R bodies; these were displaced by the 1953 full fronted machines from express duties to private hire and excursion work. 984 GAA 620 and its fellow fourteen coaches were all withdrawn in the year of the photograph, 1961; the Loline survived in A&D service for a further ten years.

Roger Cox

08/11/19 – 10:27

Full-fronted Lancet J10C has thankfully been in preservation for some years. There remains work to be done before we see its welcome appearance at rallies. Thanks, Roger, for the mid-’50s demonstrators link: before reading Eric Nixon’s piece I had no idea how many types had been assessed. The Atkinson is my biggest surprise! But I still can’t help wishing that, like East Kent, they had gone for underfloor Lancets.

Ian Thompson

11/11/19 – 07:09

I think the half cab Lancet III in Roger’s second photo looks much better than this last fling from 1953. Obviously an additional window bay has been inserted to achieve the extra length but it causes the body to droop excessively towards the rear giving a strangely unbalanced look. The side flash doesn’t help either!

Chris Barker

Aldershot & District – Dennis Lancet III – HOU 905/909 – 179/183

Aldershot & District - Dennis Lancet III - HOU 905/909 - 179/183
Aldershot & District - Dennis Lancet III - HOU 905/909 - 179/183
Aldershot & District - Dennis Lancet III - HOU 905/909 - 179/183

Aldershot & District Traction Co.
1950
Dennis Lancet III J10
Strachans B38R

A rather sad set of pictures taken in 1967. Parked at the rear of the Aldershot & District premises in Halimote Road, Aldershot is a line up of Dennis Lancet III buses with Strachans B38R bodywork, headed by HOU 905/909, Nos 179/183, all awaiting disposal after a valued service life of seventeen years. The interior shot was taken within No. 183. There were twelve in this final batch of Lancets, HOU 899/901-911, Nos. 173/175-185, all delivered between October 1950 and January 1951, which were of the 8ft by 30ft J10 model (fleet No. 174 was the solitary A&D Dennis Dominant). They were powered by the advanced 7.58 litre six cylinder 100 bhp Dennis O6 diesel with four valves per cylinder which drove through the “O” Type gearbox, a four speed sliding mesh unit with a preselective fifth gear designed on Maybach principles. The gear lever operated the “wrong way” – upwards from right to left – which allowed for the throw of the gear lever required to engage fifth. Three of the batch were withdrawn in 1965 with the final nine going in 1967, by which time the AEC Reliance had already become firmly established as the A&D standard saloon chassis for thirteen years. Though I was working at Aldershot at that time, I regretfully didn’t get the opportunity to drive one of these, which seemed to see out their final days at Woking depot. The bus on the right of the Lancets is Loline I No. 353, SOU 461 of 1958. On the left is relaxed utility metal framed Weymann bodied Guy Arab II EOR 374 of 1945, originally No 884 of L22/26R configuration, withdrawn from service in 1958 and converted into a tree lopper. HOU 909 was sold for scrap, but the subsequent fate of HOU 905 is not known. Lancet HOU 904, No. 178, has been preserved.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

08/01/21 – 07:43

There is a full description of the Dennis ‘O’ type gearbox at – https://dennissociety.org.uk/nl/ogearbox.html

Peter Williamson

Aldershot & District – Dennis Lancet III – GAA 611 – 975

GAA 611

Aldershot & District Traction Co.
1948
Dennis Lancet III J3
Strachan C32R

During the latter stages of WW2, all commercial vehicle manufacturers had new models awaiting production to take advantage of an anticipated post war boom in passenger and haulage markets. Dennis revealed EOR 743, its prototype of the Mark III Lancet, in the early months of 1945. A major improvement was the entirely new 7.58 litre O6 diesel housed in a longer bonnet in place of the 6.5 litre O4 in the pre war Lancet. From 1948 to 1951 Aldershot & District took a further 114 examples of the Lancet III with saloon bodywork, and these were complemented in 1948 by fifteen Dennis Lancet J3 coaches with Strachans C32R bodies, GAA 609-623, Nos. 973-987, which replaced the externally very similar O4 powered Lancet II/Strachans C32R vehicles of 1937-38. The post war Lancet was an exceptionally fine machine, and the 24 valve, wet liner, O6 engine was probably the smoothest running commercial diesel engine of the time. Coupled with the Dennis ‘O’ type five speed gearbox, it yielded excellent reliability, a high standard of refinement and good performance on the road. Notwithstanding the apparent complexity of the engine, the Lancet III became popular with and respected by many independent operators. In the 1961 photograph, GAA 611, No, 975, delivered in June 1948, is crossing Bridge Street, Guildford (now one way in the opposite direction) and about to turn right into the railway station. This coach was withdrawn in that same year. In 1953, having sampled a number of underfloor engined demonstrators, Aldershot & District stayed with the faithful front engined Lancet III and ordered fifteen 30ft by 8ft examples of the J10C with Strachans full fronted FC38R bodies. Finally, in 1954 the company bowed to the inevitable and turned to the AEC Reliance.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

13/06/22 – 06:34

Strachans produced a very distinctive and rather nice coach body after WW2 and this appears to be one of them but it looks so different with a full canopy at the front. It was far more familiar in half canopy form and I imagine it’s purpose as such was to provide better forward visibility for passengers on excursions and tours etc.
Full canopy coaches seem to have been popular with South of England operators, East Kent, Aldershot & District, Southdown, no doubt because of their many London services, they wanted something which looked rather more ‘business like’ and also capable of providing a clear and comprehensive destination display.
Full canopies were also popular with the Scottish companies on coaches but perhaps for different reasons in that they were also used extensively on stage carriage services.
I like this A&D Dennis, it’s a fine looking coach but I do think the side ‘flash’ is a little over done though!

Chris Barker