Western Scottish Motor Traction Co. Limited 1933 Gilford Zeus Strachans H24/24R
The above photograph (from the Dave Jones Collection) is of a Gilford Zeus outside the Bellfield Works in High Wycombe. This was Gilford’s third attempt to get into double decker vehicle market after the 168DOT and the failed front wheel drive double decker which was later converted into a trolleybus. Two were built, the first appearing at the Glasgow Show of 1932 before being registered in 1933 for use as a Gilford demonstrator before passing to Western S.M.T (Fleet number 723), and the second being sold direct to Western S.M.T (Fleet number 722). The two vehicles were originally fitted with different engines, the demonstrator a Vulcan Juno and the later one a Tangye VM6, but both are believed to have had Leyland oil engines fitted before entering service.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Andrew Stevens
22/04/12 – 16:42
A very smart modern-looking bus for its time, apart from the rather scrunched-up windscreen. The radiator suits the body style very well. I always had a soft spot for Gilford and was sorry it failed, partly due to the takeover of independents by newly-formed London Transport. Western SMT were staunch supporters of the marque at this time, taking quite a few coaches for their long-distance services. I wonder how long they lasted and their histories until scrapping. I was never good company at funfairs: a stomach not suited to revolving at high speed, restricted me to dodgems, big dippers, but certainly not waltzers! Thus, I tended to walk around the showmens’ vehicles and enjoy the fare on display there. I always remember seeing a Gilford Hera on one occasion, the only Gilford I ever saw.
Chris Hebbron
23/04/12 – 05:35
Don’t know when, but 723 transferred to Sandersons of Glasgow and I don’t know any history after that. 722 was withdrawn from service in 1944 and also transferred to Sandersons with no subsequent history.
Andrew Stevens
23/04/12 – 05:36
I have never come across a Gilford myself but every mention of them is always in a positive light – always said to be superb vehicles. As Chris says, circumstances – the customer base disappearing – overtook the firm with disastrous effects. I lived in High Wycombe for fifteen years and know Bellfield well – never realised that Gilford were based there. I don’t think they left a trace when they moved back to London.
David Oldfield
23/04/12 – 05:51
The very interesting subject of Gilfords reminds me that a group are restoring a single decker that started in life with Fred Oade of Heckmondwike. The company is still in business although nowadays they are undertakers the coaching side of the business was sold to Yorkshire Woollen in 1960. The vehicle is WX 3567 and was new in 1930. Oades sold it in 1934 and according to The PSV Circle it passed through several different owners and allegedly was sold for scrap in 1938 although obviously this never happened as I believe it was found in a barn.
Philip Carlton
24/04/12 – 06:53
I actually saw ‘WX’ last week and it’s coming along. The survivor list may take some by surprise, with two vehicles, a DF6 and an AS6 I believe road-worthy, along with an AS6, a 166SD, two 168SD’s (one converted to OT) and a 168OT currently under restoration. There is also a Hera chassis at the SVBM. Would be nice to get them all roadworthy and together in the future – here’s hoping. Unfortunately Bellfield works has now been demolished so there certainly is no trace left of the company, and few people in Wycombe seem to know of their existence, something I hope to put right somehow.
Andrew Stevens
07/03/14 – 16:14
My father was a bus driver with Western SMT from 1945 till his retirement in 1976. His normal route was Irvine Harbour via Montgreenan to Kilwining Railway Station, wait 10 minutes and drive back. Only one single decker bus operated on this route. Due to the demand for the service on a Sunday a double decker was used. One Sunday my father forgot about the low bridge at Irvine harbour and took the complete top of the decker. For this he was suspended for a week without pay. Having no Driver the following Sunday, the Chief Inspector drove the route and put the decker under the same bridge. Father wages were duly restored. After WW2 there was a shortage of reliable buses. Western decided to buy bare chassis from Leyland and have them bodied at Alexanders Falkirk. All that Leyland supplied was a bare chassis and a temporary seat. drivers had to wrap up well and on some occasion had to be lifted from the seat as their clothes were frozen solid. After the war Western started their Glasgow to London night Service, on one Glasgow Fair 110 coaches left Glasgow in convoy for London, the journey time was 15 hours with refreshment stops there were no toilets on these buses. During the 1960’s a Day service was introduced. all the coaches were two driver operated as was the night service. Only the senior drivers were allowed on the day service and they got all the new and best coaches. The engines on these coaches had no engine governor and have been clocked at over 90 mph. The time was now down to ten hours, there were no Motorways at this time. The drivers would swap driving positions without stopping or reducing speed. The goal was to get into London Waterloo early, and give themselves more free time. In June 1967 my Father took delivery of the first Volvo coach with one piece wrap round windscreen. The coach was delivered factory fitted straight to the bus stance at Glasgow, it had not been checked over by Western mechanics. I was on this coach on its return journey from London To Glasgow. We were traveling on a dual carriageway when we were overtaken by a lorry with a flapping tarpaulin the Tarpaulin caught the driver mirror swung it through the windscreen. due to the increase in internal pressure the back window popped out. Midland Red had an agreement with Western in the event of an accident or breakdown they would supply a replacement coach in this case the replacement would mean a six hour delay. The drivers on consulting the passengers decided to press on, the weather was dry and sunny temperature approx, 24 degree’s. Two miles after turning at Scots corner a rear tyre punctured caused by going over windscreen glass. The coach had a spare wheel and nut runner but no jack. The lorry following us was driven by an ex-colleague of my fathers who just happened to have a heavy duty jack, 15 min’s. later we were back on the road. the coach arrived in Glasgow 5 min’s behind schedule. The tips for each of the two drivers were more than a weeks wages each. We stayed in Fenwick at that time. during WW2 there was a bus service. Ayr via Kilmarnock and Fenwick to Glasgow with a bus frequency of one every 90 seconds and the buses were packed. The regulations during the war were 28 standing downstairs and 12 standing up stairs. One memorable bus registration number TJ 9090 this was a second hand six wheeled Leyland with seating for 109, standing room bottom deck 35, top deck 20. On a Saturday afternoons fully loaded you could pass her on your bicycle going up Beansburn Brae
Gilbert Wilson
12/09/14 – 06:13
There is the chassis of an ex-Alexander Gilford Hera on show at the Scottish Vintage Bus Museum. It has a Leyland petrol engine taken out of a Titan converted to diesel.
Stephen Allcroft
15/09/15 – 06:46
Having just noticed the comment about this bus being sold to Sandersons of Glasgow in 1944, the Sanderson family traded at the time as Millburn Motors and were dealers and breakers. At later dates they owned controlling stakes in Lowland Motorways and Northern Roadways, the dealership later became S & N Motors.
Charles Rickards 1964 Dodge S307/190T Strachans C42F
In the early Sixties, Chrysler launched an attempt to enter the UK psv market, using the Dodge name. The chassis was placed in the “medium duty” category, heavier than a Bedford/Thames, for example, whilst lighter than the AEC/Leyland range. A Leyland engine was planned for the chassis. In 1964, after they had changed the specification several times, Charles Rickards of Brentford took delivery of five of the S307/190T model, which had Perkins 6.354 diesel engines, which, together with higher-geared rear axles and five-speed gearboxes, were to give the vehicles a top speed of over 70 mph. The engine was mounted at the front of the vehicle, although the front axle was set back to provide an entrance ahead of the front wheels. They were designed for medium-distance touring, although they seemed to spend a lot of time on sightseeing duties in and around London, frequenting Hampton Court Palace quite a lot. This view shows one on duty around Heathrow Airport, possibly in later years.. The C42F body was by Strachans, some of the last bodies they produced. They seemed to have novel opening windows. Only one other Dodge coach chassis was built, an S308 demonstrator, with a Leyland engine and a Weymann body.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron
29/09/14 – 07:42
Remarkably similar to post Topaz MCW coach body – especially the front. The fact that they share the BET screen adds to this impression – as do a slightly unfocussed frontal treatment and the plain, “honest box” overall style. It is nowhere near ugly; it simply doesn’t thrill!
David Oldfield
29/09/14 – 11:15
Strachans made the most successful if not best bodies for the AEC Swift/Merlin – due to a design which was unique at the time. They were around quite some time but never made the big time. What were their bodies really like? How good were they? How good were these on the Dodges? […..and I never came across any of these Dodges. How good were they – or were they simply Dodgy?]
David Oldfield
29/09/14 – 15:26
I was at Rickards from 1965 and seem to remember the Dodges’ as pretty reliable but a bit noisy and so they were kept on the service from the British Eagle terminal at Knightsbridge to Heathrow as the guides complained about the engine noise when used on sightseeing tours. They were repainted in British Eagle livery for this work, Rickards being part of the same group at the time.
John Hodkinson
29/09/14 – 18:53
One of their successful designs was the Pacemaker, which sold in modest numbers around the country. Those AEC Swift/Merlins which lasted with London Transport (usually the ones modified to become Red Arrows) served a term of about 15 years and the bodies are reported to have been well-made. With only six of the Dodges built, it would have been a miracle to see one, but I wish I had! It maybe that the bodies do lack the ‘look-back’ factor, but I admire their clean lines, all very parallel! Does anyone have a record of their later lives, and that of the demonstrator?
Chris Hebbron
30/09/14 – 06:30
David, I’m not sure which MCW coach body you’re referring to. This one, //tinyurl.com/lhn8bse called the Metropolitan, has a front dome which is identical to the Strachans body, but uses a single-curvature windscreen instead of the BET unit. Strangely, production of the last 10 of these Metropolitans was subcontracted to Strachans. There would have been more but the orders dried up. Strachans reputation was patchy to say the least, especially on the double deck front. But as you say, the Swift/Merlins were very well thought of, and the same was true of the Panthers they built for Sunderland (the Panther using the same chassis frame as the Swift/Merlin of course).
Peter Williamson
30/09/14 – 18:32
Yes I did mean the Metropolitan. I think if you look closely, it is the same screen.
David Oldfield
01/10/14 – 05:50
Strachans also built a lot of bodies on Bedford SB chassis, for the armed forces, which were long-lasting. But others, as Peter W mentions, were not of good quality. Thx, John H, for some insight into the characteristics of these vehicles. Maybe the Perkins engines, rather than the planned Leyland ones were noisier in operation. One would have thought that more engine insulation was achievable.
Chris Hebbron
01/10/14 – 11:54
The pioneer production chassis with front engine and set back front axle, at least in Britain, was the Maudslay SF40 of 1934 which achieved quite reasonable sales until production was halted by WW2. The petrol engined version was more satisfactory than the diesel options, which employed the heavier and bulkier Gardner 4LW or 5LW, neither of which offered great refinement or dazzling road performance. Post war, the same concept was revived in the Guy Wulfrunian, which suffered by having the physically large Gardner 6LX cantilevered forward of the front wheels. All the other manufacturers who adopted the same design principle opted to reduce the load on the front axle by fitting small, high revving engines in the overhang. Bedford, Ford and Seddon, and Volvo with the Ailsa ‘decker, all followed this course. The very basic US Blue Bird school bus, sometimes seen around US air bases in Britain, is probably the most commercially successful example of the concept. The lightweight Dodge S306 (Leyland O.370) and S307 (Perkins 6.354) of 1962 were the first proper psv chassis to come from the Kew factory, and some thought seemed to have gone into the design which offered vacuum- or air-hydraulic operation of the braking system, and a five speed constant mesh (later synchromesh) gearbox. The drawbacks proved to be the very constricted front entrance steps, the awkward gear lever arrangement inherent in the mounting of a gearbox directly behind the front engine, but, most importantly, the high noise level within the vehicle. The O.370 was by no means a quiet engine, but the Perkins 6.354 was raucous in the extreme, and no amount of engine cover padding could have muffled its din. Most of the limited sales of Dodges were bodied as buses, but, as Chris has shown, Rickards did take some as coaches. I can well appreciate that they were not popular in such a role. Dodge withdrew the S306/S307 from the market in 1967. The side windows in these Strachans bodies appear to be of the ‘Auster’ type, which Aldershot & District fitted to the front upper deck windows of its Lolines. These were hopper windows which had the upper half permanently fixed outwards at about 45 degrees, and the lower part could be pulled inwards from the closed position through about 90 degrees to regulate the degree of ventilation. They worked well at the front of a double decker; I cannot believe that they were truly effective as fitted in the coach bodies shown.
Roger Cox
02/10/14 – 07:58
The side vent windows certainly look like the Auster product and look to be pairs of the standard vent per bay. Very similar to the vents on the BMMO C5.
Phil Blinkhorn
02/10/14 – 08:01
Thx, Roger, for the very interesting and informative information. I’ve always had a soft spot for the Maudslay SF40, which always seemed to have wonderful art deco bodies, the image only spoilt by the obvious starting handle! When you look at the photo of the Dodge, you can see how narrow the door seems to be and imagine how tortuous the steps must have been to get around the engine bulge.
I’d never heard of the Auster draughtproof windows, but here is a 1955 advert illustrating how they were supposed to work. I wonder if the company was part of the aircraft factory.
On the C5, Phil, the angled Auster windows are sort-of replicated by shape by the windscreen angles. Thx, John L, and second half of the Auster TRIPLEX name is very well-known.
Chris Hebbron
03/10/14 – 11:06
Chris Hebron queries the possibility of a link between the Auster vent manufacturer and the aircraft manufacturer. The only link could be that the former may (and I can find no proof that it did or did not) have supplied screens or locks to the latter. The Auster Company of Birmingham was founded in 1841 and was eventually incorporated in 1897. From the early 1900s they made a variety of screens, vents, axles, motor and coach fittings springs and other ironwork, mostly for the automotive industry. In 1937 it went into aircraft parts making windscreens, cockpit covers and other parts and continued in this endeavour during WW2. The Auster Aircraft company started life in 1938 as Taylorcraft Aircraft (England) Ltd at Thurmaston, Leicester, building licenced copies of the American Taylorcraft designs. Widely used as observation aircraft by the RAF and Army and Canadian Forces during and after WW2 the company’s UK products became one of the leading UK suppliers of private light aircraft post war, in part due to import restrictions on foreign built aircraft. With a manufacturing plant at Syston and final assembly at Rearsby the company built over 1600 aircraft during WW2. On March 7 1946 the name of the company was changed to Auster Aircraft and production was transferred to Rearsby. The company became part of Beagle Aircraft in 1960 when Pressed Steel Company took over Auster and Miles Aircraft. The Rearsby facility became Beagle-Auster, the Miles facility at Shoreham became Beagle-Miles. In 1965 Beagle was taken over by the British Motor Corporation which immediately sought finance from the UK government which bought the company in 1966. After various attempts to gain a solid market, the company was dissolved in 1969. Many Austers are still on the British register and the Beagle Bulldog, which first flew just as the company was being dissolved and was later manufactured by Scottish Aviation and then BAe, became a reasonable success selling 320 copies mainly to air forces. Last built in 1976 a number remain in military service and a few fly as private aircraft.
Further information to confirm that the two Auster companies had no real connection is that the aircraft company was founded by A L Wykes, Managing Director of Crowthers Ltd., a textile machinery company of Thurmaston. In 1938 he travelled to the USA and negotiated a licence agreement to build Taylorcraft aircraft in the UK, the UK company being registered on November 21 1938
Phil Blinkhorn
03/10/14 – 17:26
The relationship between BMC and liquidation will not be lost here, although in 1969 the worst was yet to be….
Joe
03/10/14 – 17:26
I have been reading the article on Dodge/Strachans vehicles, which claims only 6 built including a demo, I have 6 with Rickards? Rickard,W2 AYV 93B Dodge S307/190T S307 8311 Stn 52140 C41F 6/64 Rickard,W2 AYV 94B Dodge S307/190T S307 8571S Stn 52141 C41F 7/64 Rickard,W2 AYV 95B Dodge S307/190T S307 8590 Stn 54142 C41F 7/64 Rickard,W2 AYV 96B Dodge S307/190T S307 9430 Stn 54143 C39F 7/64 Rickard,W2 AYV 97B Dodge S307/190T S307 9404S Stn 54144 C39F 7/64 Rickard,W2 AYV 98B Dodge S307/190T S307 9411 Stn 54145 C38F 7/64 Used on British Eagle contracts. I remember seeing these on day trips to Margate. Can anyone tell me what registration was the elusive Demonstrator S308 mentioned in the text? Photo credit of AYV 84B I believe should go to Steve Vallance coach and bus, an uncropped view is on facebook.
Ron
04/10/14 – 06:42
Thx for clarifying the Auster Aircraft situation, Phil. From Ron’s info (thx) it’s intriguing that the number of seats went down and down for the last vehicles. One wonders if this was an attempt to ease the entrance congestion, or maybe to get the front passengers away from the noise!!! Incidentally, my photo was bought at a bus rally a couple of years ago, with a blank reverse.
Chris Hebbron
04/10/14 – 06:43
Pleased to read Ron’s comment that he thought there were 6 Dodges. I too was thinking there were 6, not 5, but putting it down to a ‘senior moment’! (AYV 92B was a Bedford Val/Yeates. also very unpopular with guides for having a noisy engine)
John Hodkinson
15/07/15 – 05:58
To clarify matters on the subject of demonstrators Bus Lists On The Web lists two, both 42-seat buses, Leyland-engined 2496PK had a Weymann body and was new in September 1962. Perkins engined 3033PE had a Marshall body, was first registered in March 1964 and ended up on the Isle of Harris with a Leyland engine and is seen here:
Stephen Allcroft
02/03/16 – 07:08
I’m unusually late to this conversation, even by my own standards – but I hope the following might still be of interest . . . the fact that it’s so tardy might give a clue as just how difficult it is to gather information about London’s coach operators. Charles Rickards (Tours) Ltd business was originally in the provision of sightseeing tours, since 1946 these were marketed as “Universal Sightseeing Tours” after the company of that name (founded 1933) was taken over. Subsequently transfer services between Heathrow and central London were operated for a number of airlines: at differing times services were provided for Aerolineas Argentinas, British Eagle, Loftleidir Airways, PanAm, TWA, and United Arab Airlines – the last transfer services (for PanAm and TWA, to Victoria) ceased in November 1981). Rail-Air Link services were developed, in conjunction with British Railways, from 1963, when a service was established between Heathrow and High Wycombe; subsequently services were provided to Woking and Watford (a service to Reading being provided by Thames Valley). It was the development of operations based on Heathrow Airport that led, in 1965, to the offices and garage being moved to Glenhurst Road, Brentford from Paddington. In 1965 ownership of Rickards was acquired by British Eagle International Airlines, one of the principal independent UK scheduled airlines of that time. British Eagle wished to provide its passengers with an improved service between its London terminal at Knightsbridge and Heathrow – ownership of Rickards would provide a competitive edge over rival airlines. A number of Rickards coaches (c17% fleet strength) were painted in the British Eagle colours of red/grey/black – around 9000 journeys were made per week on the British Eagle transfer services. 1967 was not a good year for the UK airline industry: the Arab-Israeli “Six Day War”, a military coup in Greece, Spanish tightening of border restrictions on Gibraltar, and a 15% reduction in the valuation of the pound, all conspired against the airline industry by reducing the demand for international travel – as part of an all-round belt tightening British Eagle disposed of its Rickards subsidiary to Frames’ Tours Ltd in 1967. British Eagle ceased trading in November 1968. Frames’ business was largely British and continental extended tours, with around 95% of clients being from overseas (the overwhelming majority from the USA and Canada) – Rickards operations, Heathrow-London transfers and day-tours, must have seemed a good addition. Frames’ head office was at 25-31 Tavistock Place WC1, and their garage and coach station at Herbrand St WC1 – Frames utilised the basement whilst Daimler Hire Ltd (later Hertz) used the upper floors for garaging, with their work-shop being situated on the top floor. During the early 1970s a subsidiary company, Frames’ Travel (Gatwick) Ltd, operated from a base near Redhill. The Frames and Rickards businesses were merged as Frames-Rickards Ltd in 1983. Immediately prior to amalgamation the fleet strenghts were: Frames, 20 heavy-weights, all with bodies less than 5y (roughly the same fleet size as 1967); Rickards, 17 heavy-weights (four in Heathrow-Woking Rail-Air livery), 5 light-weights, and 1 mini-bus (just under a 50% reduction in fleet size since 1967, but with a similar age profile of 1-10y). The combined Frames-Rickards business was acquired by Golden Tours (founded 1984, and against whom Frames-Rickards had objected to the granting of licenses) in 2001. The Herbrand St premises were redeveloped as offices for the current occupier from 2002. Frames’ livery was originally two-tone blue, but around 1977 changed to black with red fleet-name and flag logo. Rickards’ livery was a two-tone maroon with black relief, with a Royal Warrant carried since 1936.
Philip Rushworth
08/05/16 – 05:58
One more can be added to the list of Dodge chassis although not an S307. In 1964 Plaxton built a dual entrance coach for Penn Overland Transport, Jamaica. It is illustrated on page 51 of “Plaxton 100 Years” (ISBN 07110 3209 2). It had Dodge chassis S305-190 8454, Plaxton C30D body 642341, and was delivered in June 1964.
John Kaye
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
26/01/18 – 05:14
For the Rickards bodies on the Dodge chassis, if I remember rightly the chassis was a nightmare for body mounting. Someone who worked at Rickards may be able to comment more but I think that the chassis frame was not flat and the main rails were not parallel. As this body was more of a coach style, the stepwell needed to be as large as possible. I spent a lot of hours with Dave Hoy, the senior designer, on our knees on the full size layout tables designing the front end.
Aldershot & District Traction Co 1953 Dennis Lancet III J10C Strachan FC38R
In 1948, Aldershot & District took delivery of fifteen Dennis Lancet J3 coaches with Strachans C32R bodies. These replaced the externally very similar Lancet II/Strachans C32R vehicles of 1937-38, the main difference being the longer bonnet of the Lancet III which housed the 7.58 litre O6 in place of the 6.5 litre O4 in the pre war model. These post war machines were very fine coaches giving a high standard of refinement. The 24 valve, wet liner, O6 engine was probably the smoothest running diesel engine of all time, and, coupled with the Dennis “O” type five speed gearbox, it was capable of excellent performance on the road. However, by the early 1950s, the traditional half cab, heavy duty, front engined coach was regarded as passe in major fleets, having been supplanted by the fashionably new underfloor engined machine. Even small independents had begun taking the superficially more modern Bedford SB. In 1950, Aldershot & District bought one of the only two Dennis Dominants ever completed (a third was constructed in chassis form only and subsequently dismantled), but had been obliged to look elsewhere for an underfloor engined chassis when Dennis decided not to produce that model in quantity. In 1953, wishing to upgrade its image, but still undecided about the underfloor configuration, Aldershot & District tried out a number of underfloor engined machines from a variety of manufacturers – Guy (Arab LUF), Atkinson (PM 744 & 745), Leyland (Tiger Cub) and Dennis (Lancet UF). Surprisingly, in view of later developments, AEC was not represented in these trials. The story of the Aldershot and District demonstrators may be found at this link. Instead the company sought to update the coach fleet with 15 full fronted examples of the 30 feet long and 8 feet wide J10C Lancet, with Strachan FC38R bodywork, Nos.188-202, LAA 223-237. These were attractive coaches of traditional appearance, though the effect was spoiled slightly by the cheap looking wire mesh grille, the apparent frailty of which seemed to to be endorsed by the dents that it soon acquired in service. Like all Lancets, these coaches were excellent, smooth running, reliable machines, though the drivers” cabs reputedly became unpleasantly hot, particularly so in the summer months. Aware that these coaches presented an outdated image in a world increasingly dominated by modern, underfloor engined vehicles, Aldershot & District succumbed in 1954 to the lure of the AEC Reliance, purchasing twenty-five examples of the MU3RV model with the 6.75 litre AH410 engine. Angular Strachans Everest C41C bodies were fitted with a high floor level and corresponding waistline. The arrival of the Reliances resulted in the relegation of the full fronted Lancets from regular express work to other duties, and they were all withdrawn in 1963 after a relatively short life of ten years. In the photograph, taken at Victoria in 1960, No.193, LAA 228, its windscreen significantly open wide, is laying over in the company of one of the Strachans bodied Reliances. Behind is LCD 857, one of Southdown”s Beadle rebuilds with FC35C bodywork, 30ft long and 8ft wide on 7ft 6ins chassis sections. This coach was constructed using the units of pre war Leyland Tiger TS8 EUF 96, and retained the 8.6 litre oil engine. Like the full fronted Aldershot & District Lancets, this vehicle (and its fellows) was sold in 1963.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
04/11/19 – 06:15
How surprising in 1953 for such buses/coaches to be delivered to a “substantial” company? Times had already moved on e.g. Ribble with its Leyland/Leyland coaches in 1951 and Tilling with the LS/ECW “beauties” in 1952. A nice story Roger, thank you.
Stuart Emmett
05/11/19 – 06:12
This picture, taken in 1961 in The Grove alongside Aldershot Bus Station – now long gone, the current bus station is a pitiful apology of a facility – shows the Winchester outstation based 1958 Dennis Loline I 338, SOU 446, with East Lancashire H37/31RD body, passing a pair of the fine 1948 Lancet III coaches with Strachans C32R bodies; these were displaced by the 1953 full fronted machines from express duties to private hire and excursion work. 984 GAA 620 and its fellow fourteen coaches were all withdrawn in the year of the photograph, 1961; the Loline survived in A&D service for a further ten years.
Roger Cox
08/11/19 – 10:27
Full-fronted Lancet J10C has thankfully been in preservation for some years. There remains work to be done before we see its welcome appearance at rallies. Thanks, Roger, for the mid-’50s demonstrators link: before reading Eric Nixon’s piece I had no idea how many types had been assessed. The Atkinson is my biggest surprise! But I still can’t help wishing that, like East Kent, they had gone for underfloor Lancets.
Ian Thompson
11/11/19 – 07:09
I think the half cab Lancet III in Roger’s second photo looks much better than this last fling from 1953. Obviously an additional window bay has been inserted to achieve the extra length but it causes the body to droop excessively towards the rear giving a strangely unbalanced look. The side flash doesn’t help either!
Aldershot & District Traction Co. 1950 Dennis Lancet III J10 Strachans B38R
A rather sad set of pictures taken in 1967. Parked at the rear of the Aldershot & District premises in Halimote Road, Aldershot is a line up of Dennis Lancet III buses with Strachans B38R bodywork, headed by HOU 905/909, Nos 179/183, all awaiting disposal after a valued service life of seventeen years. The interior shot was taken within No. 183. There were twelve in this final batch of Lancets, HOU 899/901-911, Nos. 173/175-185, all delivered between October 1950 and January 1951, which were of the 8ft by 30ft J10 model (fleet No. 174 was the solitary A&D Dennis Dominant). They were powered by the advanced 7.58 litre six cylinder 100 bhp Dennis O6 diesel with four valves per cylinder which drove through the “O” Type gearbox, a four speed sliding mesh unit with a preselective fifth gear designed on Maybach principles. The gear lever operated the “wrong way” – upwards from right to left – which allowed for the throw of the gear lever required to engage fifth. Three of the batch were withdrawn in 1965 with the final nine going in 1967, by which time the AEC Reliance had already become firmly established as the A&D standard saloon chassis for thirteen years. Though I was working at Aldershot at that time, I regretfully didn’t get the opportunity to drive one of these, which seemed to see out their final days at Woking depot. The bus on the right of the Lancets is Loline I No. 353, SOU 461 of 1958. On the left is relaxed utility metal framed Weymann bodied Guy Arab II EOR 374 of 1945, originally No 884 of L22/26R configuration, withdrawn from service in 1958 and converted into a tree lopper. HOU 909 was sold for scrap, but the subsequent fate of HOU 905 is not known. Lancet HOU 904, No. 178, has been preserved.
Aldershot & District Traction Co. 1948 Dennis Lancet III J3 Strachan C32R
During the latter stages of WW2, all commercial vehicle manufacturers had new models awaiting production to take advantage of an anticipated post war boom in passenger and haulage markets. Dennis revealed EOR 743, its prototype of the Mark III Lancet, in the early months of 1945. A major improvement was the entirely new 7.58 litre O6 diesel housed in a longer bonnet in place of the 6.5 litre O4 in the pre war Lancet. From 1948 to 1951 Aldershot & District took a further 114 examples of the Lancet III with saloon bodywork, and these were complemented in 1948 by fifteen Dennis Lancet J3 coaches with Strachans C32R bodies, GAA 609-623, Nos. 973-987, which replaced the externally very similar O4 powered Lancet II/Strachans C32R vehicles of 1937-38. The post war Lancet was an exceptionally fine machine, and the 24 valve, wet liner, O6 engine was probably the smoothest running commercial diesel engine of the time. Coupled with the Dennis ‘O’ type five speed gearbox, it yielded excellent reliability, a high standard of refinement and good performance on the road. Notwithstanding the apparent complexity of the engine, the Lancet III became popular with and respected by many independent operators. In the 1961 photograph, GAA 611, No, 975, delivered in June 1948, is crossing Bridge Street, Guildford (now one way in the opposite direction) and about to turn right into the railway station. This coach was withdrawn in that same year. In 1953, having sampled a number of underfloor engined demonstrators, Aldershot & District stayed with the faithful front engined Lancet III and ordered fifteen 30ft by 8ft examples of the J10C with Strachans full fronted FC38R bodies. Finally, in 1954 the company bowed to the inevitable and turned to the AEC Reliance.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
13/06/22 – 06:34
Strachans produced a very distinctive and rather nice coach body after WW2 and this appears to be one of them but it looks so different with a full canopy at the front. It was far more familiar in half canopy form and I imagine it’s purpose as such was to provide better forward visibility for passengers on excursions and tours etc. Full canopy coaches seem to have been popular with South of England operators, East Kent, Aldershot & District, Southdown, no doubt because of their many London services, they wanted something which looked rather more ‘business like’ and also capable of providing a clear and comprehensive destination display. Full canopies were also popular with the Scottish companies on coaches but perhaps for different reasons in that they were also used extensively on stage carriage services. I like this A&D Dennis, it’s a fine looking coach but I do think the side ‘flash’ is a little over done though!
Aldershot & District Traction Co 1956 Dennis Falcon P5 Strachans B30F
In the 1930s, Dennis manufactured a bewildering choice of small buses for lightly trafficked routes – Dart, Pike, Arrow Minor, Ace and Mace. These were all replaced in 1938 by a single model, the Falcon, available in normal or forward control, with the engine options of Dennis 3.77 side valve petrol or Gardner 4LK or Perkins P6 diesel. By the onset of WW2 only around 50 had been produced. Aldershot & District took delivery of nine petrol engined Falcons with four speed gearboxes and Strachans B20F bodywork in 1939, but they saw little use before being stored for the duration of the conflict. They were placed back in service after the war but, being petrol powered, all were withdrawn by 1951. It may seem rather surprising that Aldershot & District did not consider converting these little buses to diesel power, but they had been stored in the open in the Aldershot sports field for much of the war, and the bodywork had suffered quite severely. Instead, in 1949/50, the company took delivery of fifteen new Falcons of almost identical appearance to the earlier batch, though these were of the P3 type with Gardner 4LK engines and five speed gearboxes, and the B20F bodies were built by Dennis. In 1951/2 they were reseated to B24F. Withdrawal took place between 1956 and 1960. No less than 15 more Falcons, now of the upgraded and longer P5 variety but still with 4LK engines and five speed gearboxes, arrived in 1954, and a further 8 came two years later, all with Strachans B30F bodywork. These buses marked the end of an era, as they were the last Dennis single deckers and the final Strachans bodies to be bought by Aldershot & District. The last of the batch, POR 428, fleet no. 282, was withdrawn by the Aldershot company in 1967, and, along with many of its fellows, was sold to the Isle of Man. In 1997 it was rescued and returned to the mainland, where the next thirteen years were taken up with its restoration; see-: www.adbig.co.uk/282.html In the picture above 282 is seen in 1961 at Petersfield Station, awaiting departure on the very rural route 53 to Alton. A Dennis Loline I arriving from Guildford on route 24 pulls in behind.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
26/04/15 – 11:10
If I remember rightly, these buses were a ‘challenge’ to drive. The driver’s signalling window was higher than the driver’s elbow level, being closer to his shoulder level, so requiring an upward angle for his arm. I think only his hand could actually reach out, because the driver’s seat was so far inboard. And the raked steering wheel was not positioned on the centre line of the driver’s seat either. So he was always steering through a bit of an angle – a bit like riding a horse side-saddle!
Petras409
27/04/15 – 07:47
Obviously from an era when pride in the fleet was something to be encouraged. Today’s attitude seems to be that pride is an unnecessary outdated luxury, which is an expensive time consuming drain on recourses.
Ronnie Hoye
27/04/15 – 07:48
Quite a few types of normal control buses seem to have had the steering column positioned further towards the centre of the vehicle than forward control machines. I have never driven a Falcon, but this was certainly true of the Bedford OB, the Leyland Comet and the Guy GS. In my experience of all these other examples, the bodywork tapered inwards towards the front of the vehicle allowing reasonable access to the signalling window. The Strachans body design on these Falcons retained parallel sides right up to the bonnet, and I can well appreciate the difficulty of actually extending one’s signalling arm to as mentioned by Petras 409. I agree also, that the signalling window was set absurdly high for practical use, the saloon window level being set at a higher level than that of the exactly contemporary GS, which was a delightful little bus to drive. Strachans didn’t take ergonomics into account when designing these Falcon bodies.
Roger Cox
12/02/21 – 12:20
Here is a view of 282 in its ‘new’ guise as Isle of Man Road Services 29 at Ramsey depot on 12 August 1967, so very shortly after its transfer, and still in A&D colours. There is evidence of partial repainting, as the bonnet top and dash clearly have fresh paint compared with the slightly faded wings and bonnet sides, as have the centre side panels where the new fleetname appears.
Also a view of two of its siblings in the workshops in Douglas in the course of makeover, taken on the same day. These look as if they have already received the IOMRS red livery, as even in monochrome there would be a clear difference between the two tones of A&D green.
To complete the picture there is also a view of the predecessor 29, already decommissioned, also at Ramsey – Bedford OWB/Duple UB32F of 1945.
Aldershot & District 1950 Dennis Dominant Strachans B41C
The Dominant represented the initial attempt by Dennis to offer an underfloor engined single deck chassis. Like the contemporary Regal IV, Royal Tiger, Freeline and Arab UF models, the Dominant was a heavy beast, but, unlike those competitors, it never achieved quantity production. The engine was a horizontal version of the advanced 24 valve wet liner O6 diesel of 7.58 litres coupled to the Hobbs semi automatic gearbox, which used disc clutches instead of annular brake bands to engage the gears. A two speed axle was also specified. The middle section of the chassis was ‘humped’ slightly to clear the engine and gearbox, which made the design rather more difficult to body than its competitors. Only three Dominants were made, and all were shown at the 1950 Commercial Motor Show. One was displayed in left hand drive chassis form, but it is believed never to have run under its own power. The other two received Strachans bus bodies of very different character. The bus in the demonstration park had a supercharged (not turbocharged) engine, raising power from 100bhp to 130 bhp, and full air braking, and had a front entrance bus body, probably with 41 seats, of conventional appearance. The other, vacuum braked Dominant became very well known as Aldershot & District No.174, HOU 900, and its B41C body was an example of the uncertain approach to styling adopted by a number of coach builders in the early years of the underfloor engined chassis. The initial strange wing pattern was subsequently simplified to a more usual style by A&D as seen in the picture above. The Hobbs transmission revealed early weaknesses, and it was replaced in both running Dominants by standard Dennis two plate clutches and five speed gearboxes. The demonstrator was sold to Trimdon Motor Services who registered it MUP 297 and ran it, now without the supercharger, for seven years, before selling it on to become a mobile shop. The other Dominant remained in the Aldershot & District fleet from 1951 for fourteen years, spending much of that time ploughing its way on the Aldershot – Cove group of services. It is seen here in 1961 leaving Aldershot Bus Station with Weymann L25/26R rebodied Guy Arab I of 1943 No.873, EHO 695 alongside. This Arab was one of a number of such chassis originally destined for, but ultimately not wanted by London Transport. It was initially fitted for A&D service with a Strachans L22/26R body, rebodied in 1950, and finally withdrawn in 1962.
Thank you for posting this view. It has settled a problem I’ve had for some years, in respect of my “bought” slides. Not all photographs come with an indication of where (and/or when) they were taken. I have several where this building features in the background. Clearly, it was in A&D or AV territory, but the precise location was a mystery until now!
Pete Davies
20/01/13 – 14:11
Thanks for the links Roger. The original wing embellishments were rather odd – those sort of things did not really belong on coaches of the new underfloor-engined era, but the front one being the ‘wrong way round’ was plain silly. Many coachbuilders and operators of the time must have been really confused as to what to do with this new layout of vehicle. However once A&D had modified it in the fashion depicted on this photo I think it looked rather nice, with its gently curved lower windscreen line just taking the edge of any tendency to boxiness. The A&D livery of the period was just superb and enhanced any vehicle. The Arab looks really fine too. Weymann bodies looked great on any type of chassis. Many operators who rebodied their utilities after the war also converted them to the low-bonnetted Arab III layout, but I always felt – purely from an enthusiast/aesthetic perspective – that the Arab II’s original tall bonnet looked far more balanced, and in keeping with its rugged, no-nonsense nature.
John Stringer
20/01/13 – 14:51
The bus station at Aldershot was opened in August 1933, and I believe that it was the only company owned bus station within the BET group. Sadly, it has now gone. The site is now occupied by residential development, and the replacement bus station is an austere affair near the railway station entrance.
Roger Cox
20/01/13 – 15:31
Omnibus Stations Ltd, a company jointly owned by North Western and Ribble owned Lower Mosley St Bus Station Manchester, also long gone.
Phil Blinkhorn
20/01/13 – 16:26
The Wilts and Dorset bus station in Endless Street, Salisbury is up for sale. When it is gone all the services using it will be decanted onto the surrounding streets to join the local services in an already congested City centre. Is this progress? No,it’s called asset stripping. Sorry to go off topic. I’m a great Dennis fan and on a sunny summer afternoon I sometimes cut my grass with my 1960’s Dennis lawnmower.
Paragon
20/01/13 – 17:56
I know it’s off topic, unless the lawnmowers were scale model prototypes for buses, dustcarts or fire appliances, but I’d no idea they were still being made as recently as the 60’s. I saw one at Amberley on one occasion, several years ago. To be fair, Paragon, I visit Salisbury every couple of months or so, to exercise my “dodders’ pass”. Salisbury Bus Station is in dire need of fairly extensive refurbishment, at least. Is it purely asset stripping, or is it another of those odd instances where the site is sold and then leased back? Is the aim to clog Blue Boar Row, Endless Street and New Canal even more than they are already as a permanent feature, so even more shoppers will be discouraged from visiting, and go out of town or use mail order/internet shopping instead? You’re right. It is NOT progress!
Pete Davies
21/01/13 – 06:12
………with supercharger, no doubt, Paragon!
Chris Hebbron
21/01/13 – 06:13
Paragon, Is it a petrol mower?
21/01/13 – 06:14
Pete, the Dennis lawnmower business was sold off by Hestair, which also disposed of the Mercury truck business. However, Dennis lawnmowers are still made, albeit by the Derby firm of Howardson. See //www.dennisuk.com/history/
Roger Cox
21/01/13 – 06:16
With reference to Roger’s comment (20/01) about BET-owned bus stations . . . how about: Cleckheaton, Dewsbury, Batley – YWD (or corporation?; Newcastle Worswick Street, Northern; Scarborough Westwood, and Bridlington, EYMS; Skelhorne Street (Liverpool) and Carlisle, Ribble; Ammanford, James; Haverfordwest, Western Welsh; and this is now getting too far south for clear recollection – didn’t Southdown own a bus station at either Lewes or Uckfield? (one of the few instances of Southdown using their own premises – on the grounds that they’d already paid road tax to use the public roads, so why pay again to provide their own terminal facilities off-road). And then again what is a bus station – didn’t BMMO use its Stourbridge garage as a “bus station” of sorts?
Philip Rushworth
Oops, I forgot! Didn’t M&D own two bus stations in Maidstone until the early ’70s?
21/01/13 – 06:18
As has been mentioned, body builders weren’t quite sure what to do with the new-fangled underfloor-engined chassis. A few builders seem to have noticed that, unlike half cabs where the front and rear were very different, it was possible here to build in features which emphasised the symmetry of the new shape. A flat side view of this Dominant in its original form would show this symmetry in the ‘wings’, and perhaps something similar was attempted in the mouldings above, but they didn’t quite have the nerve to carry it through. The whole idea was, of course, a big mistake, because a bus/coach is not a static object but something that moves FORWARD!
Peter Williamson
21/01/13 – 14:25
The BET Group North Western Road Car Co also owned many of its bus stations – Macclesfield, Oldham, Altrincham, and Northwich for sure. This was fairly common practice among area agreement companies of any size. More interesting perhaps (to me at least!) are the independent operators who had their own bus stations – Birch Brothers’ Rushden facility springs to mind along with Blair & Palmer’s East Tower Street premises in Carlisle.
Neville Mercer
21/01/13 – 14:26
Yes it is a petrol mower. The engine was made by another great British engineering company now long gone, Villiers of Wolverhampton. I use a modern Dennis on our bowling green, superb quality but unfortunately powered by a trouble-free Japanese engine, just like my car. Where did we go wrong? No. Don’t lets get started on that.
Paragon
22/01/13 – 06:52
Villiers was a long established company in small engines for motor-cycles and lawnmowers. In the early 1980s, they produced a 2-stroke engine for lawnmowers with Mountfields. Unfortunately, this was a disaster and led to the demise of the company.
Jim Hepburn
22/01/13 – 11:07
Mention of Villiers reminds me of a Fanny Barnett motorbike I had, briefly, in the 1950’s. It was a distress purchase from a friend, when my trusty Ariel broke down, and was soon sold on. A similar distress purchase was a Wartburg, also briefly owned. I was not a lover of two-strokes, although, of course, I exclude the Commer TS3 engine!
Chris Hebbron
22/01/13 – 12:26
Chris, my dad and I drove a 1967 Wartburg Knight from Stockport to Rome and back in the summer of 1967 with my mum and two sisters. Fuelling was a two stage process which we thought might cause problems once we left French and German speaking countries. The first fuel stop in Italy at Aosta we were approached by a typically dressed Italian widow, all in black. I handed her a note in Italian stating what we needed. Her reply was “Awight Duck, nah problem I’ll get ma son ta fill y’ap all cushty”. Turns out that, though she was Italian, she’d lived in London from 1920 to 1965. The Wartburg was faultless, its 998cc engine tackling Alpine passes with 5 adults on board as brilliantly as it managed the autobahns and the Autostrada del Sole.
Phil Blinkhorn
22/01/13 – 14:11
I know others who share the positive view of the old Wartburg. I also know people who swore by – not at – their Comecon Skodas. As a dyed in the wool VW person (from Beetle onward) I am a very happy modern Skoda (VW in sheeps clothing) owner – despite recent comments by Phil. Just bought a new one at the weekend – so haven’t worn it out yet!
David Oldfield
22/01/13 – 17:04
Wife had a fourth hand Comecon Skoda in the late 1970s. Rubbish body ended up 50 shades of mustard but the engine and transmission were fantastic as, I’m told, were their PSVs which I have ridden on from time to time over the last 40 odd years. BTW my latest Skoda troubles with the bonnet lock follow on from a leaking water pump and damaged timing belt at 38,000 miles. Have had partial compensation from Skoda but they are hardly my favourite people at present.
Phil Blinkhorn
23/01/13 – 15:49
There was a lot of snobbery about Comecon products fostered by the likes of Clarkson and Co. who rarely have to pay for their motoring. Saab won the Monte Carlo Rally using a 3 cylinder 2 stroke engine just like the Wartburg. My daughter had a Comecon Skoda for a couple of years. I had to replace the water pump but other than that it was totally reliable. She then wanted a more fashionable Seat-disaster. For nearly 40 years I have ridden East German MZ motorcycles, I’m on my second one now. Practical, easy to maintain – just like we used to make in this country.
Paragon
06/03/13 – 06:57
A slightly late comment on Roger’s excellent article and the mention of the “hump” in the chassis rails – which was actually on the nearside only, over the engine and certainly no higher than the raised sections over front and rear axle. The contemporary press were most unforgiving and scathing with their comments about the uneven surface. Strangely, other manufacturers with even worse “humps” escaped such criticism. I have always thought that quite possibly the press were encouraged by the likes of AEC and Leyland who were marketing their chassis (Regal IV, Royal Tiger) with the expectation that the provided outriggers would be used as pick up points for the vertical body frames and floor. The truth was of course that many body builders simply ignored the top level of the chassis and used substantial cross bearers as a foundation for floor and body where required. Certainly though, this issue pointed the way to the later dead flat chassis on Reliance, Tiger Cub and Lancet UF, to name but three.
Nick Webster
06/03/13 – 16:44
Thanks for your very informative comment, Nick. I am sure that you are right in your suspicions that the ‘big two’ massaged the publicity machine of the commercial press to wound the sales of the Dominant. During WW2, notwithstanding the supreme peril of the nation, Rolls Royce, with its eye on post war dominance, tried every trick to get the Napier Sabre aero engine cancelled, and much of the unbalanced criticism of that engine that still holds sway today derives from that campaign. Dennis engineering was of a high order, but the trouble with the Dominant (and the later Lancet UF) was the dependence upon the old ‘O’ type gearbox once the Hobbs transmission had proved to be unreliable. That gearbox, with its sliding mesh engagement for indirect gears, and the preselective overdrive that required familiarity for successful operation, together with the wrong way round ‘right to left’ gate, required some skill in use when located halfway along the length of an underfloor engined chassis. If Dennis had equipped the Lancet UF from the outset with a straightforward constant mesh five speed gearbox as it did with the Loline, then the sales might well have been more of a challenge to AEC and Leyland.
Roger Cox
06/03/13 – 18:13
Roger, without wanting to drift too far off topic, there may well be truth in what you say about Rolls Royce but there is no doubt that the 24 cylinder H block Sabre suffered from complexity and poor quality control from the start which, had it emerged through a time of peace would have been solved. In time of war where reliability was all,it was too unreliable compared to the less powerful Merlin and probably too complex for the Erks to deal with as the war moved swiftly forward through Europe with minimal facilities at the forward bases where the Typhoons and Tempests found themselves in the ground attack role, the Sabre, for all its power being uncompetitive in dog fights above 21,000 feet. Post war there was little for the Sabre to power as air forces turned to jet and turboprop power.
Phil Blinkhorn
08/03/13 – 07:30
Phil, the legend of the Sabre’s ‘unreliability’ dies hard. The most convincing and clearly documented assessment of this engine may be found in the book “The Power to Fly” by the extraordinary author LJK Setright. This site, as you rightly point out, is not the forum for aero engine debates, but the facts about this remarkable engine show the traditional, Derby briefed view to be highly jaundiced. To quote Setright: “..when properly maintained instead of being criminally bodged (a reference to the widespread practice of tampering with the automatic boost control by mechanics at several airfields to achieve even higher outputs and thus airspeeds) it was exemplary in its reliability”. Production of Typhoons totalled 3300, and that of Tempest V/VIs reached 942. Engine production would have well exceeded the 4242 airframe total. Those figures could not have been achieved by an untrustworthy piece of engineering. It’s high time that the Derby manipulated Sabre legend was despatched once and for all. Meanwhile, back at OBP…..
Roger Cox
31/10/20 – 06:36
A completely non-technical post, but it adds to the history of this bus. My father was a conductor with the Aldershot & District Traction Co (the Traco) during the 50s. I’ve been transcribing his diaries and came across an entry for Monday 26th Jan 1953. “Dominant” bus was hit along Hawley Lane. Back panel ripped half off by M.O.S. lorry. Was on it at the time. I assume M.O.S. was Ministry of Supply. He didn’t actually say he was the conductor, but I can’t think why he would have been just a passenger.
J Amos & Son (Belchamp St. Paul) 19?? Bedford OB Strachans C27F – C26F (1953)
Photos on this site have four main characteristics to be discussed – the location, the operator, the chassis and the body. With this one, I have no problem with three of them but the last is more tricky. Firstly the location, it is the Suffolk town of Sudbury where, during the last war, the Borough Council erected a sign showing the allocation of the fifteen operators to the fourteen stands dotted around the Market Hill. The “Black Boy Hotel” in the background is little changed today but the grocery shop of E. W. King closed in November 2006 after 89 years. Their coffee was advertised on the tickets issued by Corona Coaches as shown over on “Old Bus Tickets”. Next the operator, it is William George Amos trading as J.Amos & Son, indeed I think it may be Billy himself in the driving seat. Amos was one of those rural operators who gave their full address on legal documents as simply the name of their village, in this case Belchamp St. Paul, just over the border in Essex. After all, if your depot was one side of the village green and your residence was the other side, you could be fairly certain that the postman would find you, especially if your family had been there since the 1700s. Thirdly, the chassis and if you are not totally familiar with the Bedford OB then this may not be the right web site for you. Finally we come to the body builder and this is where it gets more difficult. It is in fact Strachans and I think you can award yourself a bonus point if you knew that. The only reference where I can find to a similar combination is Roselyn Coaches (Ede) of Cornwall who had JCV 645 and KAF 992 which were fitted with a canvas sunshine roof. As Amos’ example was, I think, new to the Newquay Motor Co, I wonder if it was so fitted as well. JAF 832 lasted with Amos from 1952 to 1964, but like the operator is no more. Billy Amos made his last run to Sudbury at the age of 80 on December 31st 2002, crew operation and punch tickets remaining a feature to the end. He then got a job as a part time driver with another operator but passed away in October 2009.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Nigel Turner
01/03/12 – 07:59
Nice photo of a very rare combination, Nigel. It was summer, by the look of the girl lurking under the Boots awning. Nice, also, to see the Ford 100E parked behind the coach. I suppose that Strachans made a reasonable fist of bodying the OB, but it doesn’t have the flow of the Duple version, and I’m trying hard to be objective here. What a wonderfully long career Bill Amos had.
Chris Hebbron
01/03/12 – 07:59
The feature of “paired” windows, with each pair having radiused corners, was very much a Strachans coach (though not bus) styling characteristic up to the early 1950s.
Roger Cox
01/03/12 – 08:00
I’m very pleased to see this posted and no, I couldn’t have awarded myself a bonus point for knowing the bodywork! Some time ago, I bought a copy of the book ‘Aspects of Buses’ by D D Gladwin, Oakwood Press and it contains a picture of this very vehicle but no details are given. When the picture of the Vic’s Tours Bedford was posted on here last year, I thought there were one or two similarities in the bodywork and I’ve wondered about the Amos one ever since. Not the same bodywork apparently but a mystery solved!
Chris Barker
02/03/12 – 15:21
The body on KAF 992 is referred in the John Woodhams book The Bedford OB & OWB as being by Mashford.
Southampton Corporation 1968 AEC Swift MP2R Strachans B47D
I thought a southern flavour was in order with another Southampton photo this one in service in early 1968 when the bus was quite new I am not sure of the exact location in the city. No 2 MTR 420F was an AEC Swift MP2R with a Strachans B47D body delivered in February 1968 one of a batch of five which were some 9-10 months after No 1 JOW 499E with an identical body, the ways to tell them apart was that No 1 had a red roof and a cream skirt rather than that shown on No 2 it also had a route number box above the first near/side window. These were followed by four more Swifts in 1970 this time with East Lancs who by this time were confirmed as Southampton’s body builder of choice.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave
05/06/14 – 07:38
It’s on the junction of Portsmouth Road and Victoria Road in Woolston, Dave. She’s come from Weston Estate and is going to City Centre via Bitterne and Northam. The 8 and the 16 ran in opposite directions and the bus is turning right here because ahead of her is the bridge carrying the Southampton to Portsmouth railway line. Occasionally, drivers tried taking double deckers under the bridge, and failed to do anything other than cause the vehicle’s immediate withdrawal, hence the introduction of the compulsory right turn here. The road was lowered when the Itchen Bridge was built to replace the Floating Bridge in 1977. Several “Corporation” services ended at either side of the Itchen, and Hants & Dorset had a couple which terminated in Woolston, along with a small depot.
Pete Davies
05/06/14 – 07:39
By the time I saw this bus it was in a rather sorry state – parked at the back of the Blackpool Corporation depot in April 1980 being used as a source of spares for their own fleet of Swifts.
Mike Morton
05/06/14 – 17:41
It’s nice to see this style of bodywork in a decent colour scheme. London Transport and Wolverhampton’s versions were both dreadful!
Neville Mercer
05/06/14 – 17:41
I recall seeing these vehicles on my occasional forays from Portsmouth to So’ton. They had attractive bodies, in my opinion, aided by the livery. I moved from the area in 1976, the same year that saw the demise of Strachans. Your comment, Mike, confirms my thoughts that they did not have long lives, like many Swifts. No idea of bodywork quality: do you DD?
Chris Hebbron
06/06/14 – 07:39
The six Strachans bodied Swifts lasted a maximum of eleven years in Southampton, but a couple of them went after a mere six years. The subsequent four Swifts with East Lancs bodies also stayed in the fleet for just eleven years, so I suspect that the modest lives of these buses was due more to the shortcomings of the Swift chassis than to inadequacies with the bodywork. In fact, the Strachans body on rear engined two door single deck chassis gained quite a reasonable reputation owing to the employment of underframing that reduced the flexing movement. The Strachans examples were rather less prone to roof structure failure in the region of the centre doorway than the efforts of some other manufacturers, as London Transport, for example, discovered to its cost.
Roger Cox
06/06/14 – 08:46
One peculiarity of the Swifts in Southampton – it may have applied to the Arab UF and Nimbus fleet as well but I never got to travel on any of them, and I suspect not – was a red stripe across the roof, to match the location of the step behind the centre door. Smoking downstairs had been prohibited for several years, but was still allowed upstairs. On the Swifts, the step and stripe designated where the ‘upstairs’ was!
Pete Davies
07/06/14 – 08:17
Roof? No, sorry! I meant ceiling!
Pete Davies
07/06/14 – 08:17
I had always wondered how cigarette smoke determined where to stop blowing. It was commonplace for Smokers to be requested to occupy the rear of the vehicle on single deck buses. But how to keep the smoke from wafting into the forward section? Southampton clearly had the answer – paint a read line across the ceiling, the smoke won’t dare go beyond there. Obvious, or what !!
Petras409
07/06/14 – 08:18
Thx, Roger, your thoughts about the chassis rather than the body being the problem matches mine.
Chris Hebbron
07/06/14 – 10:00
Slightly off topic but there used to be an airline that had smokers on one side of the aircraft, non smokers on the other and this was on narrow bodied aircraft. The joke was that this must be Aer Lingus. The truth was it was Lufthansa. Just how German efficiency prevented the smoke crossing the aisle on a B737 for instance has never been revealed.
Aldershot & District Traction Co 1954 AEC Reliance MU3RV Metro-Cammell B40F
MOR 581 is an AEC Reliance MU3RV. The chassis of this Aldershot & District vehicle dates from 1954, but the body we see (“MCW” in the PSVC listings) was fitted in 1967. The seating is of the B40F layout, and we see it in the Alton Rally on 18 July 2010. One unfortunate feature of the Alton Rally and Fleetwood Tram Sunday is that they often clash and, even with what some of my former colleagues used to call an ‘optimistic’ style of driving, even I can’t manage both in the day!
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
05/12/16 – 09:36
Beautiful! I used to travel on these, and their cousins with the older style of bodywork with an opening window for the driver. One A&D feature on OPO buses was to have just a single seat on the front nearside to allow more room for passengers paying the driver, but at the time I was a regular traveller, these buses were crew-operated. My memories are of the No.19 which turned up on time every weekday morning to take me to Haslemere Station and then onto a train to Waterloo. The railway part of my journey was much less reliable until the elderly pre-war 4-CORs were replaced by 4-CIGs.
David Wragg
06/12/16 – 14:03
Does anyone know if others of the batch were given new bodies, or why this one was treated? Crash damage springs to mind . . .
Pete Davies
06/12/16 – 15:43
Pete, I seem to recall that there were quite a number of them and one bus magazine, it may have been ‘Passenger Transport’ commented that it was surprising that such a dated style was being adopted. I take their point, but I actually liked this style.
In its search for a suitable vehicle of the then new underfloor engined format, Aldershot & District initially bought a Dennis Dominant in 1951. Only three Dominant chassis were ever made, of which two were bodied, the third chassis being dis-assembled after exhibition at the 1950 Earls Court Show. Although Dennis abandoned plans for volume production of the model, there was very little wrong with the Dominant apart from its excessive weight (a characteristic shared by the the contemporary Regal IV and Royal Tiger), and Aldershot & District kept HOU 900 in front line service for fourteen years. In 1953 the company bought a solitary example of the Guy Arab LUF, which it retained in service until 1965, but purchased no more. Then, after sampling a number of different underfloor types, Aldershot & District finally took the plunge in 1954 with the AEC Reliance, twenty five being delivered with rather gawky, high floor and waistline, Strachans Everest C41C bodywork. These were registered MOR 581 to 605, numbered 250 to 274, and were used on the Farnham – London express route, and on excursions and private hire until displaced by the 1963 Park Royal bodied Reliances. These Strachans MU3RV coaches were powered by the small AH 410 engine of 6.754 litres, a direct (though updated) descendant of the A172 “bootlace” wet liner engine of the 1935 Regal II. The “bootlace” engine design became the basis for all the AEC wet liner engines from the 1950s, and therein lay the root of subsequent trouble, for the original “bootlace” became notorious for cylinder liner seal and gasket failures. No. 263, MOR 594 is shown in 1968 on route 3D (Aldershot – Cove, Minley Estate) passing the RAE in Farnborough Road. The inadequate destination blind display seen here was most unusual on A&D in those days, and indicates a degree of crew laziness in the early NBC era that would not have been tolerated in BET times. These machines were quite pleasant to drive, though given to a somewhat wallowy standard of ride, but the performance with the small AH410 engine was less than sparkling. In 1965, fifteen of these coaches were selected for rebodying with the then A&D standard Weymann saloon design, but the Weymann factory was closing down, and the order was undertaken by Metro-Cammell. The engineering standards on Aldershot & District were extremely high, and no doubt all of the initial 25 Reliances could have been so rebodied if required. Indeed, the remaining Strachans vehicles, of which No. 263 shown was one, continued in service for several more years.
After experience with the initial Strachans bodied coaches, from 1957 Aldershot & District adopted the AH 470 engined Reliance as its standard saloon type with Weymann B41F (OMO) or B43F bodies. The initial buses had opening windscreens for the driver, but the 1960 and subsequent batches incorporated fixed windscreens which had just become legal. No.390, 390 AOU was a 2MU3RV vehicle of 1961, and representative of the final style of the Weymann A&D saloon. It is seen in Queens Avenue, the technically military road that links Farnborough North Camp with Aldershot, and is wearing the revised saloon livery of 1967 with the darker green on the lower panels. It is also carrying the retrograde “simplified” fleetname style that appeared in that same year. The Metro-Cammell bodies on MOR 581 above and some new 1966/67 Reliances differed from the Weymann version in several respects – the offside emergency exit was placed at the rear instead of the centre, the front screens lacked the metal surround, and the lower front panel incorporated a small grille.
Roger Cox
07/12/16 – 06:37
This was from a batch of twenty-five 250-274, MOR 581-605 new in 1954/5 with Strachans C41C bodies. In 1965 250/2/4-7/9-62/4/9/70/2/3 were delicensed and the bodies removed. The chassis were rebuilt and were rebodied with MCW B40F bodies, renumbered 543-557 respectively, and entered service in 1967. They were to the same design as 283-312, RCG 601-630, which had been new in 1957. Prior to 1966 bodies were built by Weymann at Addlestone and by Metro-Cammell in Birmingham but after the Weymann works closed at the end of 1965 all subsequent bodies were built by Metro-Cammell-Weymann.
John Kaye
07/12/16 – 13:33
Many thanks for your further thoughts on the history of this vehicle and her sisters.
Pete Davies
07/12/16 – 16:34
I can remember seeing the AEC Reliance chassis parked in the Guildford garage all painted in bright silver paint, I assume they were waiting to be sent for rebodying. I was a passenger on an A & D Loline 111 service 20 travelling from Aldershot to Woodbridge road Guildford to attend technical college.
John Shrubb
10/12/16 – 17:28
I’ve been thinking (I do occasionally!) and I suspect that the fifteen Strachans Reliances selected for rebodying might well have been chosen on the basis of body condition, the better ones being retained as they were. Certainly those that kept their Strachans C41C bodies continued in service for several years after 1965.
