Tag: Strachans

Lancaster City Transport – AEC Regal III – KTF 581 – 581


Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Lancaster City Transport
1949
AEC Regal III
Strachans B36F

This in my mind is what an half cab single deck bus should look like, mind you the 50-50 split livery of this Lancaster Corporation does help. I’m not all that knowledgeable about Strachans bodybuilders I think I went on a Ford demonstrator which had a Strachans body once when it was on loan to Halifax Corporation. 
This bus was originally delivered new to Morecambe & Heysham Corporation along with its sister vehicle KTF 582, I’m not sure what fleet numbers they had when at Morecambe & Heysham, if you know please leave a comment. They were both transferred, sold or exchanged to nearby Lancaster in 1953, I think there was a close working relationship between the two corporations, I read somewhere that Lancaster actually took over Morecambe & Heysham bus fleet in the early seventies.
Lancaster had a very strange way when it came to fleet numbering they used the registration number which meant out of there fleet of 37 buses in 1965 the lowest fleet number was 70 and the highest was 965, now that was different.

In 1974, local authorities were reorganised – the most dramatic being the invention of Metropolitan Counties such as Greater Manchester and Merseyside. The City of Lancaster borders were extended to include the boroughs of Morecambe and Heysham. As a result, Morecambe and Heysham buses came under common ownership with Lancaster – hence the take over.

David Oldfield

KTF 581/2 were new to Morecambe and Heysham in January 1950 and allocated fleet numbers 52/3. When new they were 35 seaters. They were withdrawn in 1951 and after a period in store were sold to Lancaster City Transport in October 1952. They entered service with their new owner in January 1953, being withdrawn in July 1967 and May 1968 respectively.

Just as a note, the Regent III double deckers delivered concurrently, 54-65 (KTF 583-594) had a much longer life in the resort, withdrawals taking place between 1974 and 1979, some of them converted to open-top.

Dave Towers

Just to add to the above, the Regals were converted for o-m-o in January and February 1957, Lancaster commencing such operations later that year, (a process completed in 1982). Of course one-manning of half cabs was not ideal with the driver having to swivel around to face passengers and take fares, but with a fairly small capacity would be manageable!

Dave Towers

The Lancaster and Morecambe & Heysham fleets were merged on April 1st 1974 when local government was reorganised and an enlarged City of Lancaster created from five separate councils, these being the existing Lancaster City Council plus Lancaster Rural District Council, Lunesdale District Council, Carnforth Urban District Council and Morecambe & Heysham Borough Council. Although only two of these councils operated buses it was decided that blue & white was to be used for all council vehicles as none of the constituent councils had used these colours on their vehicles (dustcarts, etc). There were a couple of experimental liveries tried before the decision on the blue and white livery was decreed, though I’m not sure if any saw the light of day.

Ian Simpson

21/01/12 – 17:22

You say you know little of Strachans bodies… I worked at Strachans Coachbuilders in the 1960’s at Hamble in Hants. They were originally in London and I believe linked with Duple before they moved to Hamble, but I must say that was passed on by word of mouth, how true that is would need confirmation. However I distinctly remember working on half cab deckers for Wolverhampton, (I wonder if any survived, I think they were Bristol chassis). and single deck pacemakers and pacesavers, and some rather nice looking coaches for Rickards which had a polished stainless steel hand made grill, which I, as an apprentice had to polish on the buffing wheel! I can still smell that buffing soap!! Sorry if I’ve ambled on a bit, call it a senior moment!

Pete Hatcher

22/01/12 – 06:43

Strachans are an enigma, and I would like to know more about them, Pete – so (H)amble on.
As far as I am aware, the best Merlin/Swifts of London Transport were those early ones bodied by Strachans. Apparently they benefited from a type pf mounting which did not break the back of the bus – as the others were apt to do. If they could outdo the likes of Park Royal, Met-Camm and Marshall, why were they not better known and why did they not survive? Indeed, they seemed to fizzle out with no ceremony. [They also seemed to be a favourite of Aldershot and District for a time.]

David Oldfield

22/01/12 – 16:39

I’m glad its not only me who is a bit vague about Strachans. Unlike most body builders I don’t think there has ever been a book published about them even though they did have some high profile customers.

Nigel Turner

23/01/12 – 07:37

Apart from our common interest, it’s always nice to find that there are certain subjects which interest us particularly, I think Strachans must be one of them. I’ve always thought of them as something of an enigma because like Nigel says, they had some high profile customers and they had some nice designs too, like the vehicle above but they seemed to have more than their fair share of disasters, yet they were favoured with regular orders throughout the 1950 and 60’s. The post-war double deckers seemed to have been particularly bad, South Yorkshire’s Albions and West Riding’s Daimlers had to be heavily rebuilt and some operators found that re-bodying was the only answer. The worst of all were surely the Leyland PD1’s of Western SMT which lasted only three years before disintegrating! The Lancaster vehicle looks like a nicely balanced and well constructed bus but it known why they lasted a year at Morecambe? The fact that the pair went on to achieve eighteen and nineteen years service suggests that these were very durable vehicles.

Chris Barker

23/01/12 – 07:38

Re David’s comment about London Transport Merlins, I have heard exactly the same about Sunderland’s Leyland Panthers. Metro-Cammell bodied them conventionally and the rear of the bodies became distorted with the flexing of the chassis. Strachans mounted the rear body overhang on a cantilevered subframe separate from the chassis, and this was said to be much more successful.

Peter Williamson

23/01/12 – 07:39

Peter the Wolverhampton double deckers were locally built Guy Arabs used for trolley bus replacement duties.

Chris Hough

23/01/12 – 07:40

The Wolverhampton double deckers that Pete Hatcher worked on would be Guy Arab Vs, and the Rickards coaches were a unique batch on Dodge chassis.

Peter Williamson

23/01/12 – 10:09

Strachans also built quite a few coach/ambulances on Bedford 4.9 litre petrol engined chassis for the Ministry of Defence, I worked on them whilst with the REME in our LAD at Chilwell Depot (38 Central Workshops) in the 70’s

Roger Broughton

24/01/12 – 05:54

With regard to Chris Barker’s question about the short life of KTF 581/2 in Morecambe, there is an explanation in the new “Morecambe and Lancaster” book from Venture. I’ve actually loaned the book to a friend at the moment so I can’t be totally precise, but I believe Morecambe purchased them for a specific new service, which never actually got off the ground, and so they weren’t required in the resort.

Dave Towers

02/10/12 – 14:50

Message for Pete Hatcher (above).
You may be interested to know that ex. Southampton City Transport No.1 Reg. No. JOW 499E a Strachans Pacemaster (Body No.40214) 1967 AEC Swift built at Hamble, has just been restored and put back on the road after 20 years dormant.
You can get more information by going on the SADTHT website. SADTHT stands for the SOUTHAMPTON & DISTRICT TRANSPORT HERITAGE TRUST.

Terry Knappett

03/10/12 – 05:56

Didn’t someone (Alan Townsin perhaps) write a comprehensive history some years ago of Strachans & Brown/Strachans/Strachans Successors in one of the enthusiasts’ magazines (possibly Classic Bus in its superior days under Gavin Booth). I remember reading this series of articles, but I no longer have my old Classic Bus copies to confirm.

Roger Cox

03/10/12 – 05:57

I was once told (this would be the mid-1960s) that the two Morecambe & Heysham Regal IIIs were withdrawn and subsequently sold to Lancaster because the steps had proved too steep for the borough’s elderly residents. This came from an M & H conductor who seemed to speak with confidence, as if to suggest that he had been in the employ of M & H at the relevant time. I agree that this explanation does seem a little odd, bearing in mind that there would be elderly people in Lancaster as well – but no doubt not nearly as many.

David Call

29/10/12 – 07:09

Further to my post of January, I’ve now come across the reference to KTF 581/2 in Harry Postlethwaite’s book. He says that these vehicles were purchased for a service to Middleton Tower Holiday Camp which did not materialise (the service, not the camp!), as the camp decided to provide its own transport.

Dave Towers

12/11/12 – 10:51

For Pete Hatcher.
The two top designers at Hamble were Colin Holt and Dave Hoy and Colin did all the design work for the first AEC London Transport “Red Arrow’s”. I was a drafting office apprentice from 1964 to 1970 and then returned later just prior to Strachans closing. It was a great place to work as we handled everything from single and double deck buses, military bus/ambulance conversions, semi-luxury coaches, Ford Transit vans and conversions, Military truck bodies on Bedford R series 4×4 chassis right through to special ‘one offs’ like the railcar for the Sadler Rail company. Mention has been made of the coaches for Rickards and these were unique as if memory serves me right, they failed the tilt test with the overhead parcel racks installed. They were re-tested with the parcel racks tied to the tops of the seats and the racks were installed when the coaches were shipped over to the continent. I was there when the first AEC Merlin bare chassis was delivered with a somewhat white faced driver. With the rear engine, the front wheels lifted off the road under acceleration, all subsequent chassis deliveries had boxes of engine blocks strapped on to keep the front wheels on the road. When Strachans closed I believe that both Colin Holt and Dave Hoy went to Duple and it would be interesting to contact them if they are still in the Blackpool area.

Dick Henshall

13/11/12 – 06:52

What a fascinating couple of tales, Dick; the sort of insider stories that help to make the bus subject so interesting.

Chris Hebbron

19/05/14 – 18:30

I worked on Lancaster corporation buses in the early 60s. Passed my test on a Crossley with a dodgy gearbox. Double decker’s in those days, were Guys, Crossley’s, and Leyland’s. Had to prime the Guy’s and start them with a rope on the starting handle. Single deckers, 2 Daimlers, one with only 14 seats.

G Seaman

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

20/06/16 – 06:35

The thing that puzzles me is why did M&H go to Strachans for these Regal’s bodies when at the same period they bought several batches of Regent with Park Royal bodies.

Keith Wardle

20/06/16 – 09:08

I can only think that, somehow, Strachans offered a better price!

Pete Davies

London Transport – AEC Merlin – SMM 15F – XMB 15

SMM 15F

London Transport Board
1966
AEC Merlin P2R
Strachans B46D

In the mid 1960s London Transport began moving away from its ageing bespoke designs – RT family/ RF/ RM family – and belatedly began investigating the standard offerings of the bus manufacturing industry. The ensuing saga became a sad, expensive story of incompetence, profligacy and waste, from the RC Reliances, XA Atlanteans and MB/SM Merlins/Swifts of the 1960s, and onward through the 1970s and beyond with the Daimler Fleetlines and Metro Scanias. The first London Transport Merlins (Chiswick clung to this appendage even when Southall changed the name of the AH691 engined 36 ft long version to Swift 691) had Strachans dual doorway bodies seating 25 at the rear and accommodating (exceedingly closely – I speak from personal experience) 48 standing passengers in the lower front section. These early examples of the Merlin had a low driving position that was raised on later production models. Classified XMS, fourteen of them equipped with coin operated turnstiles went into service in central London on Red Arrow service 500 in 1966 and performed that duty well. At the same time, the Country Area was pursuing a policy of adopting the Merlin for conventional one man operation as the XMB type, and had nine Strachan B45D bodied examples ready for service in the early months of 1966, but the T&GWU refused to accept them. All except XMB 1 were then repainted red, de-seated to the 25 plus 48 standing format, and used on Red Arrow services. The solitary Country Area survivor, XMB 1, which had 46 seats and then carried the registration JLA 57D, went into store, during which time it was first reclassified as XMB 15 in November 1966, and then re-registered in January 1967 as NHX 15E. In August 1967 its registration was changed yet again to SMM 15F, and it continued to spend time in store with occasional forays out and about for route surveying and training purposes. Finally, in January 1969, nearly three years after delivery, it was transferred to Tring garage where, in the following month, it carried its first fare paying passengers on the single bus allocation route 387 between Tring and Aldbury village. In 1970 it became a member of the London Country fleet, but its identity crisis was still set to continue. In mid 1971 it was reclassified MBS 15 in accordance with the rest of Merlin fleet, but in November 1973 it was sent to the by now GLC controlled London Transport who repainted it red and promptly put it into store. MBS 4, formerly XMB 4 was sent from LT to LCBS in exchange. MBS 15 saw very little, if, indeed any service use with LT thereafter, before being dumped at the old Handley Page airfield at Radlett in 1975 along with very many other unwanted LT Merlins. The following web page illustrates the chequered career of this bus:-
https://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/

In the picture above, taken early in London Country days in 1970 at Tring garage, XMB 15 has lost its London Transport roundel on the front panel, but has yet to receive its LCBS “Flying Wheel” symbol. The Strachans bodies on the early Merlins proved to be of sounder construction than the Metro-Cammell examples on the later deliveries, which quickly showed evidence of structural failure in the roof section above the central doorway.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

10/05/19 – 06:58

Thank you Roger,
Little known about vehicle article and photograph, I just thought these were rather mundane vehicles but did travel on the Red Arrow when they were new. So which one was the model done of ?, possibly a Dinky Supertoy or a Corgi, I did have one, but in my younger days it was repainted to look like an LUT Seddon, that will start the comments flowing, methinks.

Mike Norris

10/05/19 – 07:00

Didn’t quite a lot of these end up being sold to Belfast after being stored at Radlett?

David Pomfret

11/05/19 – 07:00

Several of the Strachan bodied versions along with the regular ones ended up at Gatwick Airport. Gatwick Handling had both types but Bcal and Airtours only had the latter ones. Nearly all replaced by Leyland Nationals.

Keith Hanbury-Chatten

17/05/19 – 06:50

In fairness to LT they were far from alone in having to withdraw MCW Scanias early as they suffered badly from corrosion. The one bought by WYPTE were all withdrawn early for this reason.

Chris Hough

17/05/19 – 10:32

All MetroScanias suffered this fate but, eventually, the Metropolitan had feet of clay. It did not fail as quickly as the MetroScania but in later life there were serious corrosion problems at the back end which some operators addressed by rebuilding them. The reasons for the LT failure with “off the shelf” designs is well documented (here, as elsewhere) – a sad indictment …..

David Oldfield

18/06/19 – 07:49

Surprisingly, when the Docklands Light Railway had a strike last year, 40-year old Metropolitan MD60 turned up on the replacement service. No corrosion apparent. So there’s a bit of life left in the design in London yet.

Bill

19/06/19 – 05:38

Bill, There are very few Metropolitans on the road now, because of the dreaded ‘metal moth’. MD60 is only in circulation thanks to a very lengthy (and no doubt costly) rebuild by the guys at Bus Works Blackpool and owners EnsignBus. See reference to it here: //ensignvintagebuses.blogspot.com

Petras409

26/06/19 – 09:45

Leicester Trust have one on the road as well.

Roger Burdett

17/07/19 – 07:04

Sister vehicle XMS6 (JLA 56D) finished up with The Violet Bus Service at Blackrock, County Louth but none of the Strachans bodied Merlins ended up with Citybus/Ulsterbus in Northern Ireland.

Bill Headley

18/07/20 – 07:18

I travelled on the Red Arrow XMS/MB family types many times in the early ’70’s . Blimey, everything rattled. Whether it was because they were driven with extreme gusto or that the bodywork was moving about I can only guess.
The Strachans JLA-D ones were the worst, the rear of the bus I know now wasn’t attached to the chassis – (is that really right?) which presumably accounted for the rolling and rattling. Still, the fare was only sixpence.

Roger Ingle

18/07/20 – 15:24

Roger I – I have also read that the rear end of the Strachans bodies were not attached to the chassis; and I believe that the same was true of a Daimler Roadliner bodied by East Lancs for Eastbourne Corporation. The thinking was that, with the heavy engine mounted almost at the extreme end of the rear engine, the chassis was inevitably prone to significant vibrations (cantilevering effect). It was anticipated that, over a period of time, this would have the effect of breaking the body structure in the middle, and that the problem would be more severe if the vehicle had a centre door.
The subsequent history tends to suggest that Strachans and East Lancs were correct in their assumptions. Unsurprisingly, the problem was particularly acute with long Daimler Fleetline single deckers, where the engine was mounted transversely, so that all of the weight was concentrated on the rear 3 feet of the chassis. In the mid-1990’s I had occasion to visit an independent operator who had several such Fleetline single deckers (ex-Darlington I think), and we were shown one where the roof above the centre doors had been strengthened at least twice. The effect could justifiably be compared to a camel!

Nigel Frampton

20/07/20 – 06:53

A floating cab was not unknown on half cabs. On breaking the back of rear engined buses. Once drove for a small(ish) coach operator who had four early Scania/Irizars. There were alarmingly evident cracks in the bodywork near the rear axle. Modern Irizars have a good reputation. Maybe they found a solution – but they hadn’t about twenty years ago.

David Oldfield

05/10/21 – 06:24

Thanks for the article and photos. I am making a model using Paragon Kits excellent resin kit so this will be very helpful for the detailing (I shall do it as original all seated with 46 seats).

Gordon Mackley

Reading Corporation – Bristol RE – KRD 258F – 258

Reading Corporation - Bristol RE - KRD 258F - 258

Reading Corporation
1967
Bristol RELL6G
Strachans B34D

KRD 258F, Reading 258, is another of the operator’s Bristol RELL6G fleet, with Strachans of Hamble B34D body (and the tribute to Burlingham’s “Seagull” motif). She’s seen at Wisley airfield, arriving for the open day there on 4 April 2004. Since the organisers’ move from Cobham to Brooklands, these events are now held at the latter site.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

07/11/13 – 07:27

When these were delivered they were likened to milk floats by some observers!

Chris Hough

07/11/13 – 09:39

As an ardent supporter of centre exit buses this seems a grand motor to me, but is it perhaps an optical illusion that it seems very short for a 36 foot vehicle ??

Chris Youhill

07/11/13 – 11:44

These are (Series 2) RELL-6 models, a special model, only produced in 1967/8. Reading had 28 with Pennine and 14 with Strachans bodies. The only others were 2 for Warrington with East Lancs bodies making a grand total of 44. The standard Series 2 model was the RELL-3 of which there were 2657 built. The RELL-3 had an 18’6″ wheelbase for 36’0″ x 8’2½” bodies. The RELL-6 had a 17’6″ wheelbase for between 32’6″ and 36’0″ long bodies. Regrettably I do not know the exact length of the bodied RELL-6s, but I suspect Chris that you are correct – they are less than 36’0″ long. [Any Reading or Bristol experts out there to fill us in?]

David Oldfield

08/11/13 – 06:46

I think it is quite a striking looking bus – enhanced by a good livery. Just wonder about reflections in the windscreens at night – they look very upright and flat in plan view.

Ian Wild

08/11/13 – 08:10

Apparently Reading were quite enamoured of their Burlingham Reliances and basically wanted the same again. Since Burlingham was no more it fell to Pennine and Strachans to put a modern twist on the original – and this is what they got, along with the “Burlingham” motif on the front.

David Oldfield

08/11/13 – 11:43

These were probably 32ft 6ins but, for some reason 32ft 9ins sticks in my mind!

Phil Blinkhorn

08/11/13 – 18:06

Can anyone supply a photo of the Pennine version? I assume that they too, were a good copy.

Chris Hebbron

09/11/13 – 06:13

Reading seems to have had a penchant for nonstandard versions of chassis and bodies. The Dennis Lolines were of an intermediate length also. A picture of a Pennine bodied Reading RE may be seen here:- www.sct61.org.uk/

Roger Cox

09/11/13 – 08:23

Just ferreted out of Simon Butler’s book on the RE that these were, indeed, 33’0″ long.

David Oldfield

09/11/13 – 09:01

Thanks for clarifying the length David. As regards the Birmingham style motif, all Reading single deckers after the Burlingham batch had this or a variation. These were built by Duple Northern in Blackpool after Burlingham had been taken over, Neepsend, Strachans and Pennine. Of course Reading also adorned the front panels of its Trolleybuses with additional brightwork.

Phil Blinkhorn

09/11/13 – 12:09

I assume Birmingham is a typo rather than a Freudian slip Phil?

David Oldfield

09/11/13 – 12:44

It’s the *!”**!! predictive text on my tablet.

Phil Blinkhorn

09/11/13 – 17:50

Keep taking the tablets, Mr Blinkhorn!!!!

Pete Davies

10/11/13 – 07:53

Until I saw your typo, Phil, I’d not even considered how close Birmingham and Burlingham were!

David Oldfield

11/11/13 – 15:24

On their home turf we called them “cattle trucks”. I though they were very good-looking vehicles, and certainly distinctive. The problem lay not in the buses themselves but in the politics and twisted economics that insulted passengers by forcing them to stand, when car-drivers were being cosseted and effectively subsidised.
Within 3 years of the opening of a huge competitor on a “retail park” our local pet-shop has just closed. Irrelevant? No: hypermarkets have it easy, basking in a favourable economic and planning climate that makes life very hard for small shops. By the way, I loathe the word “standee”…

Ian Thompson

12/11/13 – 06:04

Ian, I totally agree with your comments regarding the “twisted economics” of forcing passengers to stand while cars (aka the competition) were steadily becoming more comfortable and affordable (and they even had heaters that worked – wowee wow wow!). The term “cattle trucks” describes such buses well, and one dreads to think of the consequences should such a bus have been involved in a head-on collision whilst fully loaded. Your loathing of the word “standee” is interesting, and maybe I can help with an alternative. A few years ago, Burnley & Pendle introduced a fleet of Optare Versas to the townsfolk of Burnley. Instead of being in B&P’s very attractive red and cream however, they were delivered in a new livery of yellow and orange (more akin to mustard and terracotta). Added to this they were adorned with the fleetname ‘Starship’. I have been reliably informed that within a few days of the buses’ introduction, their drivers were becoming tired of passengers tendering their fares and saying “beam me up Scotty!”. I did wonder at the time if any standing passengers should therefore be referred to as Klingons?

Brendan Smith

12/11/13 – 12:07

Ian, I agree. Undoubtedly the ‘standees’ would have gazed enviously upon the ‘sitees’.

Roger Cox

15/11/13 – 17:55

Visions of Klingons and Sitees really made my day! Wonderful how the imagemongers and we-know-besters always unwittingly provide the pins with which to burst the bubble of their own pomposity. Recently a train company (whose fleeting name doesn’t even escape me, as it was totally unmemorable) announced that rather than providing more seats it was considering bumrests for non-sitees to lean against, presumably qualifying these unfortunate travellers as propees–or would that be better spelt proppees?
A search led me incidentally to one Tim Leunig, an economist who would love to see Margaret Thatcher’s Serpell Report revived with massive railway closures, and who actively encourages the standing-room-only approach.
Watch out for him: he’ll be at (but not ON) the buses next.

Ian Thompson

16/11/13 – 08:43

Sounds like South Eastern Trains – the white ones out to Kent.

David Oldfield

16/11/13 – 08:44

Interesting Ian – I confess I used to support the standing room only brigade – for the London commuter belt. It seemed a good way to encourage them to look for more congenial places to live and work! Unfortunately, with increasing train speeds, the London commuter belt includes Wiltshire, Lincolnshire and Yorkshire etc. now, so that previously comfortable trains are forced to become sardine tins. Travelling on a Worst Great Western HST in standard class is now like riding in a toastrack. Cross-Country is just as bad, and they don’t even have the excuse of “serving” London commuters! Sorry for rant -let’s get back on topic!

Stephen Ford

16/11/13 – 08:44

I returned to Burnley recently having lived there in the late 1960’s. I can remember when Burnley and Pendle was Burnley, Colne and Nelson Joint Transport Committee.My wife and I lived near Queensgate Depot and were often lulled to sleep by the last Tiger Cub running in from Reedley Halt. The strange livery mentioned above is still in use but I must say the revamped bus station is much better than the old one. Very civilised unlike Salisbury where I now live where the bus station has been sold by the asset strippers and the streets are clogged up by parked buses.

Paragon

28/07/17 – 06:45

I used to drive the Reading RE’s from 1973 to 1979,they were my favourite buses in the fleet at the time,the semi – auto gears were a pleasure to drive although the steering was heavy with a full load on.The heating was almost non existent so you froze to death in the winter months. The only visible difference between the Strachan bodied ones and the Pennine bodies. was a bit more silver beading on the sides and front of the Pennine ones.

Ray Hunt