Tag: Strachans

Aldershot & District – Dennis Falcon P5 – POR 428 – 282

Aldershot & District - Dennis Falcon P5 - POR 428 - 282

Aldershot & District Traction Co
1956
Dennis Falcon P5
Strachans B30F

In the 1930s, Dennis manufactured a bewildering choice of small buses for lightly trafficked routes – Dart, Pike, Arrow Minor, Ace and Mace. These were all replaced in 1938 by a single model, the Falcon, available in normal or forward control, with the engine options of Dennis 3.77 side valve petrol or Gardner 4LK or Perkins P6 diesel. By the onset of WW2 only around 50 had been produced. Aldershot & District took delivery of nine petrol engined Falcons with four speed gearboxes and Strachans B20F bodywork in 1939, but they saw little use before being stored for the duration of the conflict. They were placed back in service after the war but, being petrol powered, all were withdrawn by 1951. It may seem rather surprising that Aldershot & District did not consider converting these little buses to diesel power, but they had been stored in the open in the Aldershot sports field for much of the war, and the bodywork had suffered quite severely. Instead, in 1949/50, the company took delivery of fifteen new Falcons of almost identical appearance to the earlier batch, though these were of the P3 type with Gardner 4LK engines and five speed gearboxes, and the B20F bodies were built by Dennis. In 1951/2 they were reseated to B24F. Withdrawal took place between 1956 and 1960. No less than 15 more Falcons, now of the upgraded and longer P5 variety but still with 4LK engines and five speed gearboxes, arrived in 1954, and a further 8 came two years later, all with Strachans B30F bodywork. These buses marked the end of an era, as they were the last Dennis single deckers and the final Strachans bodies to be bought by Aldershot & District. The last of the batch, POR 428, fleet no. 282, was withdrawn by the Aldershot company in 1967, and, along with many of its fellows, was sold to the Isle of Man. In 1997 it was rescued and returned to the mainland, where the next thirteen years were taken up with its restoration; see-: www.adbig.co.uk/282.html  
In the picture above 282 is seen in 1961 at Petersfield Station, awaiting departure on the very rural route 53 to Alton. A Dennis Loline I arriving from Guildford on route 24 pulls in behind.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

26/04/15 – 11:10

If I remember rightly, these buses were a ‘challenge’ to drive. The driver’s signalling window was higher than the driver’s elbow level, being closer to his shoulder level, so requiring an upward angle for his arm. I think only his hand could actually reach out, because the driver’s seat was so far inboard.
And the raked steering wheel was not positioned on the centre line of the driver’s seat either. So he was always steering through a bit of an angle – a bit like riding a horse side-saddle!

Petras409

27/04/15 – 07:47

Obviously from an era when pride in the fleet was something to be encouraged. Today’s attitude seems to be that pride is an unnecessary outdated luxury, which is an expensive time consuming drain on recourses.

Ronnie Hoye

27/04/15 – 07:48

Quite a few types of normal control buses seem to have had the steering column positioned further towards the centre of the vehicle than forward control machines. I have never driven a Falcon, but this was certainly true of the Bedford OB, the Leyland Comet and the Guy GS. In my experience of all these other examples, the bodywork tapered inwards towards the front of the vehicle allowing reasonable access to the signalling window. The Strachans body design on these Falcons retained parallel sides right up to the bonnet, and I can well appreciate the difficulty of actually extending one’s signalling arm to as mentioned by Petras 409. I agree also, that the signalling window was set absurdly high for practical use, the saloon window level being set at a higher level than that of the exactly contemporary GS, which was a delightful little bus to drive. Strachans didn’t take ergonomics into account when designing these Falcon bodies.

Roger Cox

12/02/21 – 12:20

29 HMN

Here is a view of 282 in its ‘new’ guise as Isle of Man Road Services 29 at Ramsey depot on 12 August 1967, so very shortly after its transfer, and still in A&D colours. There is evidence of partial repainting, as the bonnet top and dash clearly have fresh paint compared with the slightly faded wings and bonnet sides, as have the centre side panels where the new fleetname appears.

28 HMN

Also a view of two of its siblings in the workshops in Douglas in the course of makeover, taken on the same day. These look as if they have already received the IOMRS red livery, as even in monochrome there would be a clear difference between the two tones of A&D green.

GMN 148

To complete the picture there is also a view of the predecessor 29, already decommissioned, also at Ramsey – Bedford OWB/Duple UB32F of 1945.

Alan Murray-Rust

Aldershot & District – Dennis Dominant – HOU 900 – 174


Copyright Roger Cox

Aldershot & District
1950
Dennis Dominant
Strachans B41C

The Dominant represented the initial attempt by Dennis to offer an underfloor engined single deck chassis. Like the contemporary Regal IV, Royal Tiger, Freeline and Arab UF models, the Dominant was a heavy beast, but, unlike those competitors, it never achieved quantity production. The engine was a horizontal version of the advanced 24 valve wet liner O6 diesel of 7.58 litres coupled to the Hobbs semi automatic gearbox, which used disc clutches instead of annular brake bands to engage the gears. A two speed axle was also specified. The middle section of the chassis was ‘humped’ slightly to clear the engine and gearbox, which made the design rather more difficult to body than its competitors. Only three Dominants were made, and all were shown at the 1950 Commercial Motor Show. One was displayed in left hand drive chassis form, but it is believed never to have run under its own power. The other two received Strachans bus bodies of very different character. The bus in the demonstration park had a supercharged (not turbocharged) engine, raising power from 100bhp to 130 bhp, and full air braking, and had a front entrance bus body, probably with 41 seats, of conventional appearance. The other, vacuum braked Dominant became very well known as Aldershot & District No.174, HOU 900, and its B41C body was an example of the uncertain approach to styling adopted by a number of coach builders in the early years of the underfloor engined chassis. The initial strange wing pattern was subsequently simplified to a more usual style by A&D as seen in the picture above.
The Hobbs transmission revealed early weaknesses, and it was replaced in both running Dominants by standard Dennis two plate clutches and five speed gearboxes. The demonstrator was sold to Trimdon Motor Services who registered it MUP 297 and ran it, now without the supercharger, for seven years, before selling it on to become a mobile shop. The other Dominant remained in the Aldershot & District fleet from 1951 for fourteen years, spending much of that time ploughing its way on the Aldershot – Cove group of services. It is seen here in 1961 leaving Aldershot Bus Station with Weymann L25/26R rebodied Guy Arab I of 1943 No.873, EHO 695 alongside. This Arab was one of a number of such chassis originally destined for, but ultimately not wanted by London Transport. It was initially fitted for A&D service with a Strachans L22/26R body, rebodied in 1950, and finally withdrawn in 1962.

More information about the Dominant may be found on this site:-
www.dennissociety.org.uk and a picture of the Trimdon example may be found here:- //trimdon.com/galleries/

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

20/01/13 – 13:38

Thank you for posting this view. It has settled a problem I’ve had for some years, in respect of my “bought” slides. Not all photographs come with an indication of where (and/or when) they were taken. I have several where this building features in the background. Clearly, it was in A&D or AV territory, but the precise location was a mystery until now!

Pete Davies

20/01/13 – 14:11

Thanks for the links Roger. The original wing embellishments were rather odd – those sort of things did not really belong on coaches of the new underfloor-engined era, but the front one being the ‘wrong way round’ was plain silly. Many coachbuilders and operators of the time must have been really confused as to what to do with this new layout of vehicle. However once A&D had modified it in the fashion depicted on this photo I think it looked rather nice, with its gently curved lower windscreen line just taking the edge of any tendency to boxiness. The A&D livery of the period was just superb and enhanced any vehicle.
The Arab looks really fine too. Weymann bodies looked great on any type of chassis. Many operators who rebodied their utilities after the war also converted them to the low-bonnetted Arab III layout, but I always felt – purely from an enthusiast/aesthetic perspective – that the Arab II’s original tall bonnet looked far more balanced, and in keeping with its rugged, no-nonsense nature.

John Stringer

20/01/13 – 14:51

The bus station at Aldershot was opened in August 1933, and I believe that it was the only company owned bus station within the BET group. Sadly, it has now gone. The site is now occupied by residential development, and the replacement bus station is an austere affair near the railway station entrance.

Roger Cox

20/01/13 – 15:31

Omnibus Stations Ltd, a company jointly owned by North Western and Ribble owned Lower Mosley St Bus Station Manchester, also long gone.

Phil Blinkhorn

20/01/13 – 16:26

The Wilts and Dorset bus station in Endless Street, Salisbury is up for sale. When it is gone all the services using it will be decanted onto the surrounding streets to join the local services in an already congested City centre. Is this progress? No,it’s called asset stripping. Sorry to go off topic. I’m a great Dennis fan and on a sunny summer afternoon I sometimes cut my grass with my 1960’s Dennis lawnmower.

Paragon

20/01/13 – 17:56

I know it’s off topic, unless the lawnmowers were scale model prototypes for buses, dustcarts or fire appliances, but I’d no idea they were still being made as recently as the 60’s. I saw one at Amberley on one occasion, several years ago.
To be fair, Paragon, I visit Salisbury every couple of months or so, to exercise my “dodders’ pass”. Salisbury Bus Station is in dire need of fairly extensive refurbishment, at least. Is it purely asset stripping, or is it another of those odd instances where the site is sold and then leased back? Is the aim to clog Blue Boar Row, Endless Street and New Canal even more than they are already as a permanent feature, so even more shoppers will be discouraged from visiting, and go out of town or use mail order/internet shopping instead? You’re right. It is NOT progress!

Pete Davies

21/01/13 – 06:12

………with supercharger, no doubt, Paragon!

Chris Hebbron

21/01/13 – 06:13

Paragon, Is it a petrol mower?

21/01/13 – 06:14

Pete, the Dennis lawnmower business was sold off by Hestair, which also disposed of the Mercury truck business. However, Dennis lawnmowers are still made, albeit by the Derby firm of Howardson. See //www.dennisuk.com/history/

Roger Cox

21/01/13 – 06:16

With reference to Roger’s comment (20/01) about BET-owned bus stations . . . how about: Cleckheaton, Dewsbury, Batley – YWD (or corporation?; Newcastle Worswick Street, Northern; Scarborough Westwood, and Bridlington, EYMS; Skelhorne Street (Liverpool) and Carlisle, Ribble; Ammanford, James; Haverfordwest, Western Welsh; and this is now getting too far south for clear recollection – didn’t Southdown own a bus station at either Lewes or Uckfield? (one of the few instances of Southdown using their own premises – on the grounds that they’d already paid road tax to use the public roads, so why pay again to provide their own terminal facilities off-road). And then again what is a bus station – didn’t BMMO use its Stourbridge garage as a “bus station” of sorts?

Philip Rushworth

Oops, I forgot! Didn’t M&D own two bus stations in Maidstone until the early ’70s?

21/01/13 – 06:18

As has been mentioned, body builders weren’t quite sure what to do with the new-fangled underfloor-engined chassis. A few builders seem to have noticed that, unlike half cabs where the front and rear were very different, it was possible here to build in features which emphasised the symmetry of the new shape. A flat side view of this Dominant in its original form would show this symmetry in the ‘wings’, and perhaps something similar was attempted in the mouldings above, but they didn’t quite have the nerve to carry it through. The whole idea was, of course, a big mistake, because a bus/coach is not a static object but something that moves FORWARD!

Peter Williamson

21/01/13 – 14:25

The BET Group North Western Road Car Co also owned many of its bus stations – Macclesfield, Oldham, Altrincham, and Northwich for sure. This was fairly common practice among area agreement companies of any size. More interesting perhaps (to me at least!) are the independent operators who had their own bus stations – Birch Brothers’ Rushden facility springs to mind along with Blair & Palmer’s East Tower Street premises in Carlisle.

Neville Mercer

21/01/13 – 14:26

Yes it is a petrol mower. The engine was made by another great British engineering company now long gone, Villiers of Wolverhampton. I use a modern Dennis on our bowling green, superb quality but unfortunately powered by a trouble-free Japanese engine, just like my car. Where did we go wrong? No. Don’t lets get started on that.

Paragon

22/01/13 – 06:52

Villiers was a long established company in small engines for motor-cycles and lawnmowers. In the early 1980s, they produced a 2-stroke engine for lawnmowers with Mountfields. Unfortunately, this was a disaster and led to the demise of the company.

Jim Hepburn

22/01/13 – 11:07

Mention of Villiers reminds me of a Fanny Barnett motorbike I had, briefly, in the 1950’s. It was a distress purchase from a friend, when my trusty Ariel broke down, and was soon sold on. A similar distress purchase was a Wartburg, also briefly owned. I was not a lover of two-strokes, although, of course, I exclude the Commer TS3 engine!

Chris Hebbron

22/01/13 – 12:26

Chris, my dad and I drove a 1967 Wartburg Knight from Stockport to Rome and back in the summer of 1967 with my mum and two sisters.
Fuelling was a two stage process which we thought might cause problems once we left French and German speaking countries. The first fuel stop in Italy at Aosta we were approached by a typically dressed Italian widow, all in black. I handed her a note in Italian stating what we needed. Her reply was “Awight Duck, nah problem I’ll get ma son ta fill y’ap all cushty”.
Turns out that, though she was Italian, she’d lived in London from 1920 to 1965.
The Wartburg was faultless, its 998cc engine tackling Alpine passes with 5 adults on board as brilliantly as it managed the autobahns and the Autostrada del Sole.

Phil Blinkhorn

22/01/13 – 14:11

I know others who share the positive view of the old Wartburg. I also know people who swore by – not at – their Comecon Skodas. As a dyed in the wool VW person (from Beetle onward) I am a very happy modern Skoda (VW in sheeps clothing) owner – despite recent comments by Phil. Just bought a new one at the weekend – so haven’t worn it out yet!

David Oldfield

22/01/13 – 17:04

Wife had a fourth hand Comecon Skoda in the late 1970s. Rubbish body ended up 50 shades of mustard but the engine and transmission were fantastic as, I’m told, were their PSVs which I have ridden on from time to time over the last 40 odd years.
BTW my latest Skoda troubles with the bonnet lock follow on from a leaking water pump and damaged timing belt at 38,000 miles. Have had partial compensation from Skoda but they are hardly my favourite people at present.

Phil Blinkhorn

23/01/13 – 15:49

There was a lot of snobbery about Comecon products fostered by the likes of Clarkson and Co. who rarely have to pay for their motoring. Saab won the Monte Carlo Rally using a 3 cylinder 2 stroke engine just like the Wartburg. My daughter had a Comecon Skoda for a couple of years. I had to replace the water pump but other than that it was totally reliable. She then wanted a more fashionable Seat-disaster. For nearly 40 years I have ridden East German MZ motorcycles, I’m on my second one now. Practical, easy to maintain – just like we used to make in this country.

Paragon

06/03/13 – 06:57

A slightly late comment on Roger’s excellent article and the mention of the “hump” in the chassis rails – which was actually on the nearside only, over the engine and certainly no higher than the raised sections over front and rear axle. The contemporary press were most unforgiving and scathing with their comments about the uneven surface. Strangely, other manufacturers with even worse “humps” escaped such criticism. I have always thought that quite possibly the press were encouraged by the likes of AEC and Leyland who were marketing their chassis (Regal IV, Royal Tiger) with the expectation that the provided outriggers would be used as pick up points for the vertical body frames and floor. The truth was of course that many body builders simply ignored the top level of the chassis and used substantial cross bearers as a foundation for floor and body where required. Certainly though, this issue pointed the way to the later dead flat chassis on Reliance, Tiger Cub and Lancet UF, to name but three.

Nick Webster

06/03/13 – 16:44

Thanks for your very informative comment, Nick. I am sure that you are right in your suspicions that the ‘big two’ massaged the publicity machine of the commercial press to wound the sales of the Dominant. During WW2, notwithstanding the supreme peril of the nation, Rolls Royce, with its eye on post war dominance, tried every trick to get the Napier Sabre aero engine cancelled, and much of the unbalanced criticism of that engine that still holds sway today derives from that campaign. Dennis engineering was of a high order, but the trouble with the Dominant (and the later Lancet UF) was the dependence upon the old ‘O’ type gearbox once the Hobbs transmission had proved to be unreliable. That gearbox, with its sliding mesh engagement for indirect gears, and the preselective overdrive that required familiarity for successful operation, together with the wrong way round ‘right to left’ gate, required some skill in use when located halfway along the length of an underfloor engined chassis. If Dennis had equipped the Lancet UF from the outset with a straightforward constant mesh five speed gearbox as it did with the Loline, then the sales might well have been more of a challenge to AEC and Leyland.

Roger Cox

06/03/13 – 18:13

Roger, without wanting to drift too far off topic, there may well be truth in what you say about Rolls Royce but there is no doubt that the 24 cylinder H block Sabre suffered from complexity and poor quality control from the start which, had it emerged through a time of peace would have been solved.
In time of war where reliability was all,it was too unreliable compared to the less powerful Merlin and probably too complex for the Erks to deal with as the war moved swiftly forward through Europe with minimal facilities at the forward bases where the Typhoons and Tempests found themselves in the ground attack role, the Sabre, for all its power being uncompetitive in dog fights above 21,000 feet. Post war there was little for the Sabre to power as air forces turned to jet and turboprop power.

Phil Blinkhorn

08/03/13 – 07:30

Phil, the legend of the Sabre’s ‘unreliability’ dies hard. The most convincing and clearly documented assessment of this engine may be found in the book “The Power to Fly” by the extraordinary author LJK Setright. This site, as you rightly point out, is not the forum for aero engine debates, but the facts about this remarkable engine show the traditional, Derby briefed view to be highly jaundiced. To quote Setright: “..when properly maintained instead of being criminally bodged (a reference to the widespread practice of tampering with the automatic boost control by mechanics at several airfields to achieve even higher outputs and thus airspeeds) it was exemplary in its reliability”. Production of Typhoons totalled 3300, and that of Tempest V/VIs reached 942. Engine production would have well exceeded the 4242 airframe total. Those figures could not have been achieved by an untrustworthy piece of engineering. It’s high time that the Derby manipulated Sabre legend was despatched once and for all. Meanwhile, back at OBP…..

Roger Cox

31/10/20 – 06:36

A completely non-technical post, but it adds to the history of this bus. My father was a conductor with the Aldershot & District Traction Co (the Traco) during the 50s. I’ve been transcribing his diaries and came across an entry for Monday 26th Jan 1953.
“Dominant” bus was hit along Hawley Lane. Back panel ripped half off by M.O.S. lorry. Was on it at the time.
I assume M.O.S. was Ministry of Supply.
He didn’t actually say he was the conductor, but I can’t think why he would have been just a passenger.

Richard

J Amos & Son – Bedford OB – JAF 832


Copyright Nigel Turner

J Amos & Son (Belchamp St. Paul)
19??
Bedford OB
Strachans C27F – C26F (1953)

Photos on this site have four main characteristics to be discussed – the location, the operator, the chassis and the body. With this one, I have no problem with three of them but the last is more tricky.
Firstly the location, it is the Suffolk town of Sudbury where, during the last war, the Borough Council erected a sign showing the allocation of the fifteen operators to the fourteen stands dotted around the Market Hill. The “Black Boy Hotel” in the background is little changed today but the grocery shop of E. W. King closed in November 2006 after 89 years. Their coffee was advertised on the tickets issued by Corona Coaches as shown over on “Old Bus Tickets”.
Next the operator, it is William George Amos trading as J.Amos & Son, indeed I think it may be Billy himself in the driving seat. Amos was one of those rural operators who gave their full address on legal documents as simply the name of their village, in this case Belchamp St. Paul, just over the border in Essex. After all, if your depot was one side of the village green and your residence was the other side, you could be fairly certain that the postman would find you, especially if your family had been there since the 1700s.
Thirdly, the chassis and if you are not totally familiar with the Bedford OB then this may not be the right web site for you.   
Finally we come to the body builder and this is where it gets more difficult. It is in fact Strachans and I think you can award yourself a bonus point if you knew that. The only reference where I can find to a similar combination is Roselyn Coaches (Ede) of Cornwall who had JCV 645 and KAF 992 which were fitted with a canvas sunshine roof. As Amos’ example was, I think, new to the Newquay Motor Co, I wonder if it was so fitted as well.
JAF 832 lasted with Amos from 1952 to 1964, but like the operator is no more. Billy Amos made his last run to Sudbury at the age of 80 on December 31st 2002, crew operation and punch tickets remaining a feature to the end. He then got a job as a part time driver with another operator but passed away in October 2009.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Nigel Turner

01/03/12 – 07:59

Nice photo of a very rare combination, Nigel. It was summer, by the look of the girl lurking under the Boots awning. Nice, also, to see the Ford 100E parked behind the coach. I suppose that Strachans made a reasonable fist of bodying the OB, but it doesn’t have the flow of the Duple version, and I’m trying hard to be objective here. What a wonderfully long career Bill Amos had.

Chris Hebbron

01/03/12 – 07:59

The feature of “paired” windows, with each pair having radiused corners, was very much a Strachans coach (though not bus) styling characteristic up to the early 1950s.

Roger Cox

01/03/12 – 08:00

I’m very pleased to see this posted and no, I couldn’t have awarded myself a bonus point for knowing the bodywork! Some time ago, I bought a copy of the book ‘Aspects of Buses’ by D D Gladwin, Oakwood Press and it contains a picture of this very vehicle but no details are given. When the picture of the Vic’s Tours Bedford was posted on here last year, I thought there were one or two similarities in the bodywork and I’ve wondered about the Amos one ever since. Not the same bodywork apparently but a mystery solved!

Chris Barker

02/03/12 – 15:21

The body on KAF 992 is referred in the John Woodhams book The Bedford OB & OWB as being by Mashford.

John Wakefield

Southampton Corporation – AEC Swift – MTR 420F – 2

Southampton Corporation - AEC Swift - MTR420F - 2

Southampton Corporation
1968
AEC Swift MP2R
Strachans B47D

I thought a southern flavour was in order with another Southampton photo this one in service in early 1968 when the bus was quite new I am not sure of the exact location in the city.
No 2 MTR 420F was an AEC Swift MP2R with a Strachans B47D body delivered in February 1968 one of a batch of five which were some 9-10 months after No 1 JOW 499E with an identical body, the ways to tell them apart was that No 1 had a red roof and a cream skirt rather than that shown on No 2 it also had a route number box above the first near/side window. These were followed by four more Swifts in 1970 this time with East Lancs who by this time were confirmed as Southampton’s body builder of choice.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave

05/06/14 – 07:38

It’s on the junction of Portsmouth Road and Victoria Road in Woolston, Dave. She’s come from Weston Estate and is going to City Centre via Bitterne and Northam.
The 8 and the 16 ran in opposite directions and the bus is turning right here because ahead of her is the bridge carrying the Southampton to Portsmouth railway line. Occasionally, drivers tried taking double deckers under the bridge, and failed to do anything other than cause the vehicle’s immediate withdrawal, hence the introduction of the compulsory right turn here. The road was lowered when the Itchen Bridge was built to replace the Floating Bridge in 1977.
Several “Corporation” services ended at either side of the Itchen, and Hants & Dorset had a couple which terminated in Woolston, along with a small depot.

Pete Davies

05/06/14 – 07:39

By the time I saw this bus it was in a rather sorry state – parked at the back of the Blackpool Corporation depot in April 1980 being used as a source of spares for their own fleet of Swifts.

Mike Morton

05/06/14 – 17:41

It’s nice to see this style of bodywork in a decent colour scheme. London Transport and Wolverhampton’s versions were both dreadful!

Neville Mercer

05/06/14 – 17:41

I recall seeing these vehicles on my occasional forays from Portsmouth to So’ton. They had attractive bodies, in my opinion, aided by the livery. I moved from the area in 1976, the same year that saw the demise of Strachans. Your comment, Mike, confirms my thoughts that they did not have long lives, like many Swifts. No idea of bodywork quality: do you DD?

Chris Hebbron

06/06/14 – 07:39

The six Strachans bodied Swifts lasted a maximum of eleven years in Southampton, but a couple of them went after a mere six years. The subsequent four Swifts with East Lancs bodies also stayed in the fleet for just eleven years, so I suspect that the modest lives of these buses was due more to the shortcomings of the Swift chassis than to inadequacies with the bodywork. In fact, the Strachans body on rear engined two door single deck chassis gained quite a reasonable reputation owing to the employment of underframing that reduced the flexing movement. The Strachans examples were rather less prone to roof structure failure in the region of the centre doorway than the efforts of some other manufacturers, as London Transport, for example, discovered to its cost.

Roger Cox

06/06/14 – 08:46

One peculiarity of the Swifts in Southampton – it may have applied to the Arab UF and Nimbus fleet as well but I never got to travel on any of them, and I suspect not – was a red stripe across the roof, to match the location of the step behind the centre door. Smoking downstairs had been prohibited for several years, but was still allowed upstairs. On the Swifts, the step and stripe designated where the ‘upstairs’ was!

Pete Davies

07/06/14 – 08:17

Roof? No, sorry! I meant ceiling!

Pete Davies

07/06/14 – 08:17

I had always wondered how cigarette smoke determined where to stop blowing. It was commonplace for Smokers to be requested to occupy the rear of the vehicle on single deck buses. But how to keep the smoke from wafting into the forward section?
Southampton clearly had the answer – paint a read line across the ceiling, the smoke won’t dare go beyond there. Obvious, or what !!

Petras409

07/06/14 – 08:18

Thx, Roger, your thoughts about the chassis rather than the body being the problem matches mine.

Chris Hebbron

07/06/14 – 10:00

Slightly off topic but there used to be an airline that had smokers on one side of the aircraft, non smokers on the other and this was on narrow bodied aircraft. The joke was that this must be Aer Lingus. The truth was it was Lufthansa. Just how German efficiency prevented the smoke crossing the aisle on a B737 for instance has never been revealed.

Phil Blinkhorn

Aldershot & District – AEC Reliance – MOR 581 – 543

MOR 581

Aldershot & District Traction Co
1954
AEC Reliance MU3RV
Metro-Cammell B40F

MOR 581 is an AEC Reliance MU3RV. The chassis of this Aldershot & District vehicle dates from 1954, but the body we see (“MCW” in the PSVC listings) was fitted in 1967. The seating is of the B40F layout, and we see it in the Alton Rally on 18 July 2010. One unfortunate feature of the Alton Rally and Fleetwood Tram Sunday is that they often clash and, even with what some of my former colleagues used to call an ‘optimistic’ style of driving, even I can’t manage both in the day!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

05/12/16 – 09:36

Beautiful! I used to travel on these, and their cousins with the older style of bodywork with an opening window for the driver. One A&D feature on OPO buses was to have just a single seat on the front nearside to allow more room for passengers paying the driver, but at the time I was a regular traveller, these buses were crew-operated. My memories are of the No.19 which turned up on time every weekday morning to take me to Haslemere Station and then onto a train to Waterloo. The railway part of my journey was much less reliable until the elderly pre-war 4-CORs were replaced by 4-CIGs.

David Wragg

06/12/16 – 14:03

Does anyone know if others of the batch were given new bodies, or why this one was treated? Crash damage springs to mind . . .

Pete Davies

06/12/16 – 15:43

Pete,
I seem to recall that there were quite a number of them and one bus magazine, it may have been ‘Passenger Transport’ commented that it was surprising that such a dated style was being adopted. I take their point, but I actually liked this style.

David Wragg

07/12/16 – 06:32

Thank you for that, David.

Pete Davies

07/12/16 – 06:34

According to this 15 of them were re-bodied in ’67 //www.sct61.org.uk/ad267a  
Here is another re-bodied one //www.sct61.org.uk/ad273

John Lomas

07/12/16 – 06:36

MOR 594

In its search for a suitable vehicle of the then new underfloor engined format, Aldershot & District initially bought a Dennis Dominant in 1951. Only three Dominant chassis were ever made, of which two were bodied, the third chassis being dis-assembled after exhibition at the 1950 Earls Court Show. Although Dennis abandoned plans for volume production of the model, there was very little wrong with the Dominant apart from its excessive weight (a characteristic shared by the the contemporary Regal IV and Royal Tiger), and Aldershot & District kept HOU 900 in front line service for fourteen years. In 1953 the company bought a solitary example of the Guy Arab LUF, which it retained in service until 1965, but purchased no more. Then, after sampling a number of different underfloor types, Aldershot & District finally took the plunge in 1954 with the AEC Reliance, twenty five being delivered with rather gawky, high floor and waistline, Strachans Everest C41C bodywork. These were registered MOR 581 to 605, numbered 250 to 274, and were used on the Farnham – London express route, and on excursions and private hire until displaced by the 1963 Park Royal bodied Reliances. These Strachans MU3RV coaches were powered by the small AH 410 engine of 6.754 litres, a direct (though updated) descendant of the A172 “bootlace” wet liner engine of the 1935 Regal II. The “bootlace” engine design became the basis for all the AEC wet liner engines from the 1950s, and therein lay the root of subsequent trouble, for the original “bootlace” became notorious for cylinder liner seal and gasket failures. No. 263, MOR 594 is shown in 1968 on route 3D (Aldershot – Cove, Minley Estate) passing the RAE in Farnborough Road. The inadequate destination blind display seen here was most unusual on A&D in those days, and indicates a degree of crew laziness in the early NBC era that would not have been tolerated in BET times. These machines were quite pleasant to drive, though given to a somewhat wallowy standard of ride, but the performance with the small AH410 engine was less than sparkling. In 1965, fifteen of these coaches were selected for rebodying with the then A&D standard Weymann saloon design, but the Weymann factory was closing down, and the order was undertaken by Metro-Cammell. The engineering standards on Aldershot & District were extremely high, and no doubt all of the initial 25 Reliances could have been so rebodied if required. Indeed, the remaining Strachans vehicles, of which No. 263 shown was one, continued in service for several more years.

390 AOU

After experience with the initial Strachans bodied coaches, from 1957 Aldershot & District adopted the AH 470 engined Reliance as its standard saloon type with Weymann B41F (OMO) or B43F bodies. The initial buses had opening windscreens for the driver, but the 1960 and subsequent batches incorporated fixed windscreens which had just become legal. No.390, 390 AOU was a 2MU3RV vehicle of 1961, and representative of the final style of the Weymann A&D saloon. It is seen in Queens Avenue, the technically military road that links Farnborough North Camp with Aldershot, and is wearing the revised saloon livery of 1967 with the darker green on the lower panels. It is also carrying the retrograde “simplified” fleetname style that appeared in that same year. The Metro-Cammell bodies on MOR 581 above and some new 1966/67 Reliances differed from the Weymann version in several respects – the offside emergency exit was placed at the rear instead of the centre, the front screens lacked the metal surround, and the lower front panel incorporated a small grille.

Roger Cox

07/12/16 – 06:37

This was from a batch of twenty-five 250-274, MOR 581-605 new in 1954/5 with Strachans C41C bodies.
In 1965 250/2/4-7/9-62/4/9/70/2/3 were delicensed and the bodies removed. The chassis were rebuilt and were rebodied with MCW B40F bodies, renumbered 543-557 respectively, and entered service in 1967. They were to the same design as 283-312, RCG 601-630, which had been new in 1957.
Prior to 1966 bodies were built by Weymann at Addlestone and by Metro-Cammell in Birmingham but after the Weymann works closed at the end of 1965 all subsequent bodies were built by Metro-Cammell-Weymann.

John Kaye

07/12/16 – 13:33

Many thanks for your further thoughts on the history of this vehicle and her sisters.

Pete Davies

07/12/16 – 16:34

I can remember seeing the AEC Reliance chassis parked in the Guildford garage all painted in bright silver paint, I assume they were waiting to be sent for rebodying. I was a passenger on an A & D Loline 111 service 20 travelling from Aldershot to Woodbridge road Guildford to attend technical college.

John Shrubb

10/12/16 – 17:28

I’ve been thinking (I do occasionally!) and I suspect that the fifteen Strachans Reliances selected for rebodying might well have been chosen on the basis of body condition, the better ones being retained as they were. Certainly those that kept their Strachans C41C bodies continued in service for several years after 1965.

Roger Cox

Lancaster City Transport – AEC Regal III – KTF 581 – 581


Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Lancaster City Transport
1949
AEC Regal III
Strachans B36F

This in my mind is what an half cab single deck bus should look like, mind you the 50-50 split livery of this Lancaster Corporation does help. I’m not all that knowledgeable about Strachans bodybuilders I think I went on a Ford demonstrator which had a Strachans body once when it was on loan to Halifax Corporation. 
This bus was originally delivered new to Morecambe & Heysham Corporation along with its sister vehicle KTF 582, I’m not sure what fleet numbers they had when at Morecambe & Heysham, if you know please leave a comment. They were both transferred, sold or exchanged to nearby Lancaster in 1953, I think there was a close working relationship between the two corporations, I read somewhere that Lancaster actually took over Morecambe & Heysham bus fleet in the early seventies.
Lancaster had a very strange way when it came to fleet numbering they used the registration number which meant out of there fleet of 37 buses in 1965 the lowest fleet number was 70 and the highest was 965, now that was different.

In 1974, local authorities were reorganised – the most dramatic being the invention of Metropolitan Counties such as Greater Manchester and Merseyside. The City of Lancaster borders were extended to include the boroughs of Morecambe and Heysham. As a result, Morecambe and Heysham buses came under common ownership with Lancaster – hence the take over.

David Oldfield

KTF 581/2 were new to Morecambe and Heysham in January 1950 and allocated fleet numbers 52/3. When new they were 35 seaters. They were withdrawn in 1951 and after a period in store were sold to Lancaster City Transport in October 1952. They entered service with their new owner in January 1953, being withdrawn in July 1967 and May 1968 respectively.

Just as a note, the Regent III double deckers delivered concurrently, 54-65 (KTF 583-594) had a much longer life in the resort, withdrawals taking place between 1974 and 1979, some of them converted to open-top.

Dave Towers

Just to add to the above, the Regals were converted for o-m-o in January and February 1957, Lancaster commencing such operations later that year, (a process completed in 1982). Of course one-manning of half cabs was not ideal with the driver having to swivel around to face passengers and take fares, but with a fairly small capacity would be manageable!

Dave Towers

The Lancaster and Morecambe & Heysham fleets were merged on April 1st 1974 when local government was reorganised and an enlarged City of Lancaster created from five separate councils, these being the existing Lancaster City Council plus Lancaster Rural District Council, Lunesdale District Council, Carnforth Urban District Council and Morecambe & Heysham Borough Council. Although only two of these councils operated buses it was decided that blue & white was to be used for all council vehicles as none of the constituent councils had used these colours on their vehicles (dustcarts, etc). There were a couple of experimental liveries tried before the decision on the blue and white livery was decreed, though I’m not sure if any saw the light of day.

Ian Simpson

21/01/12 – 17:22

You say you know little of Strachans bodies… I worked at Strachans Coachbuilders in the 1960’s at Hamble in Hants. They were originally in London and I believe linked with Duple before they moved to Hamble, but I must say that was passed on by word of mouth, how true that is would need confirmation. However I distinctly remember working on half cab deckers for Wolverhampton, (I wonder if any survived, I think they were Bristol chassis). and single deck pacemakers and pacesavers, and some rather nice looking coaches for Rickards which had a polished stainless steel hand made grill, which I, as an apprentice had to polish on the buffing wheel! I can still smell that buffing soap!! Sorry if I’ve ambled on a bit, call it a senior moment!

Pete Hatcher

22/01/12 – 06:43

Strachans are an enigma, and I would like to know more about them, Pete – so (H)amble on.
As far as I am aware, the best Merlin/Swifts of London Transport were those early ones bodied by Strachans. Apparently they benefited from a type pf mounting which did not break the back of the bus – as the others were apt to do. If they could outdo the likes of Park Royal, Met-Camm and Marshall, why were they not better known and why did they not survive? Indeed, they seemed to fizzle out with no ceremony. [They also seemed to be a favourite of Aldershot and District for a time.]

David Oldfield

22/01/12 – 16:39

I’m glad its not only me who is a bit vague about Strachans. Unlike most body builders I don’t think there has ever been a book published about them even though they did have some high profile customers.

Nigel Turner

23/01/12 – 07:37

Apart from our common interest, it’s always nice to find that there are certain subjects which interest us particularly, I think Strachans must be one of them. I’ve always thought of them as something of an enigma because like Nigel says, they had some high profile customers and they had some nice designs too, like the vehicle above but they seemed to have more than their fair share of disasters, yet they were favoured with regular orders throughout the 1950 and 60’s. The post-war double deckers seemed to have been particularly bad, South Yorkshire’s Albions and West Riding’s Daimlers had to be heavily rebuilt and some operators found that re-bodying was the only answer. The worst of all were surely the Leyland PD1’s of Western SMT which lasted only three years before disintegrating! The Lancaster vehicle looks like a nicely balanced and well constructed bus but it known why they lasted a year at Morecambe? The fact that the pair went on to achieve eighteen and nineteen years service suggests that these were very durable vehicles.

Chris Barker

23/01/12 – 07:38

Re David’s comment about London Transport Merlins, I have heard exactly the same about Sunderland’s Leyland Panthers. Metro-Cammell bodied them conventionally and the rear of the bodies became distorted with the flexing of the chassis. Strachans mounted the rear body overhang on a cantilevered subframe separate from the chassis, and this was said to be much more successful.

Peter Williamson

23/01/12 – 07:39

Peter the Wolverhampton double deckers were locally built Guy Arabs used for trolley bus replacement duties.

Chris Hough

23/01/12 – 07:40

The Wolverhampton double deckers that Pete Hatcher worked on would be Guy Arab Vs, and the Rickards coaches were a unique batch on Dodge chassis.

Peter Williamson

23/01/12 – 10:09

Strachans also built quite a few coach/ambulances on Bedford 4.9 litre petrol engined chassis for the Ministry of Defence, I worked on them whilst with the REME in our LAD at Chilwell Depot (38 Central Workshops) in the 70’s

Roger Broughton

24/01/12 – 05:54

With regard to Chris Barker’s question about the short life of KTF 581/2 in Morecambe, there is an explanation in the new “Morecambe and Lancaster” book from Venture. I’ve actually loaned the book to a friend at the moment so I can’t be totally precise, but I believe Morecambe purchased them for a specific new service, which never actually got off the ground, and so they weren’t required in the resort.

Dave Towers

02/10/12 – 14:50

Message for Pete Hatcher (above).
You may be interested to know that ex. Southampton City Transport No.1 Reg. No. JOW 499E a Strachans Pacemaster (Body No.40214) 1967 AEC Swift built at Hamble, has just been restored and put back on the road after 20 years dormant.
You can get more information by going on the SADTHT website. SADTHT stands for the SOUTHAMPTON & DISTRICT TRANSPORT HERITAGE TRUST.

Terry Knappett

03/10/12 – 05:56

Didn’t someone (Alan Townsin perhaps) write a comprehensive history some years ago of Strachans & Brown/Strachans/Strachans Successors in one of the enthusiasts’ magazines (possibly Classic Bus in its superior days under Gavin Booth). I remember reading this series of articles, but I no longer have my old Classic Bus copies to confirm.

Roger Cox

03/10/12 – 05:57

I was once told (this would be the mid-1960s) that the two Morecambe & Heysham Regal IIIs were withdrawn and subsequently sold to Lancaster because the steps had proved too steep for the borough’s elderly residents. This came from an M & H conductor who seemed to speak with confidence, as if to suggest that he had been in the employ of M & H at the relevant time. I agree that this explanation does seem a little odd, bearing in mind that there would be elderly people in Lancaster as well – but no doubt not nearly as many.

David Call

29/10/12 – 07:09

Further to my post of January, I’ve now come across the reference to KTF 581/2 in Harry Postlethwaite’s book. He says that these vehicles were purchased for a service to Middleton Tower Holiday Camp which did not materialise (the service, not the camp!), as the camp decided to provide its own transport.

Dave Towers

12/11/12 – 10:51

For Pete Hatcher.
The two top designers at Hamble were Colin Holt and Dave Hoy and Colin did all the design work for the first AEC London Transport “Red Arrow’s”. I was a drafting office apprentice from 1964 to 1970 and then returned later just prior to Strachans closing. It was a great place to work as we handled everything from single and double deck buses, military bus/ambulance conversions, semi-luxury coaches, Ford Transit vans and conversions, Military truck bodies on Bedford R series 4×4 chassis right through to special ‘one offs’ like the railcar for the Sadler Rail company. Mention has been made of the coaches for Rickards and these were unique as if memory serves me right, they failed the tilt test with the overhead parcel racks installed. They were re-tested with the parcel racks tied to the tops of the seats and the racks were installed when the coaches were shipped over to the continent. I was there when the first AEC Merlin bare chassis was delivered with a somewhat white faced driver. With the rear engine, the front wheels lifted off the road under acceleration, all subsequent chassis deliveries had boxes of engine blocks strapped on to keep the front wheels on the road. When Strachans closed I believe that both Colin Holt and Dave Hoy went to Duple and it would be interesting to contact them if they are still in the Blackpool area.

Dick Henshall

13/11/12 – 06:52

What a fascinating couple of tales, Dick; the sort of insider stories that help to make the bus subject so interesting.

Chris Hebbron

19/05/14 – 18:30

I worked on Lancaster corporation buses in the early 60s. Passed my test on a Crossley with a dodgy gearbox. Double decker’s in those days, were Guys, Crossley’s, and Leyland’s. Had to prime the Guy’s and start them with a rope on the starting handle. Single deckers, 2 Daimlers, one with only 14 seats.

G Seaman

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

20/06/16 – 06:35

The thing that puzzles me is why did M&H go to Strachans for these Regal’s bodies when at the same period they bought several batches of Regent with Park Royal bodies.

Keith Wardle

20/06/16 – 09:08

I can only think that, somehow, Strachans offered a better price!

Pete Davies

London Transport – AEC Merlin – SMM 15F – XMB 15

SMM 15F

London Transport Board
1966
AEC Merlin P2R
Strachans B46D

In the mid 1960s London Transport began moving away from its ageing bespoke designs – RT family/ RF/ RM family – and belatedly began investigating the standard offerings of the bus manufacturing industry. The ensuing saga became a sad, expensive story of incompetence, profligacy and waste, from the RC Reliances, XA Atlanteans and MB/SM Merlins/Swifts of the 1960s, and onward through the 1970s and beyond with the Daimler Fleetlines and Metro Scanias. The first London Transport Merlins (Chiswick clung to this appendage even when Southall changed the name of the AH691 engined 36 ft long version to Swift 691) had Strachans dual doorway bodies seating 25 at the rear and accommodating (exceedingly closely – I speak from personal experience) 48 standing passengers in the lower front section. These early examples of the Merlin had a low driving position that was raised on later production models. Classified XMS, fourteen of them equipped with coin operated turnstiles went into service in central London on Red Arrow service 500 in 1966 and performed that duty well. At the same time, the Country Area was pursuing a policy of adopting the Merlin for conventional one man operation as the XMB type, and had nine Strachan B45D bodied examples ready for service in the early months of 1966, but the T&GWU refused to accept them. All except XMB 1 were then repainted red, de-seated to the 25 plus 48 standing format, and used on Red Arrow services. The solitary Country Area survivor, XMB 1, which had 46 seats and then carried the registration JLA 57D, went into store, during which time it was first reclassified as XMB 15 in November 1966, and then re-registered in January 1967 as NHX 15E. In August 1967 its registration was changed yet again to SMM 15F, and it continued to spend time in store with occasional forays out and about for route surveying and training purposes. Finally, in January 1969, nearly three years after delivery, it was transferred to Tring garage where, in the following month, it carried its first fare paying passengers on the single bus allocation route 387 between Tring and Aldbury village. In 1970 it became a member of the London Country fleet, but its identity crisis was still set to continue. In mid 1971 it was reclassified MBS 15 in accordance with the rest of Merlin fleet, but in November 1973 it was sent to the by now GLC controlled London Transport who repainted it red and promptly put it into store. MBS 4, formerly XMB 4 was sent from LT to LCBS in exchange. MBS 15 saw very little, if, indeed any service use with LT thereafter, before being dumped at the old Handley Page airfield at Radlett in 1975 along with very many other unwanted LT Merlins. The following web page illustrates the chequered career of this bus:-
https://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/

In the picture above, taken early in London Country days in 1970 at Tring garage, XMB 15 has lost its London Transport roundel on the front panel, but has yet to receive its LCBS “Flying Wheel” symbol. The Strachans bodies on the early Merlins proved to be of sounder construction than the Metro-Cammell examples on the later deliveries, which quickly showed evidence of structural failure in the roof section above the central doorway.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

10/05/19 – 06:58

Thank you Roger,
Little known about vehicle article and photograph, I just thought these were rather mundane vehicles but did travel on the Red Arrow when they were new. So which one was the model done of ?, possibly a Dinky Supertoy or a Corgi, I did have one, but in my younger days it was repainted to look like an LUT Seddon, that will start the comments flowing, methinks.

Mike Norris

10/05/19 – 07:00

Didn’t quite a lot of these end up being sold to Belfast after being stored at Radlett?

David Pomfret

11/05/19 – 07:00

Several of the Strachan bodied versions along with the regular ones ended up at Gatwick Airport. Gatwick Handling had both types but Bcal and Airtours only had the latter ones. Nearly all replaced by Leyland Nationals.

Keith Hanbury-Chatten

17/05/19 – 06:50

In fairness to LT they were far from alone in having to withdraw MCW Scanias early as they suffered badly from corrosion. The one bought by WYPTE were all withdrawn early for this reason.

Chris Hough

17/05/19 – 10:32

All MetroScanias suffered this fate but, eventually, the Metropolitan had feet of clay. It did not fail as quickly as the MetroScania but in later life there were serious corrosion problems at the back end which some operators addressed by rebuilding them. The reasons for the LT failure with “off the shelf” designs is well documented (here, as elsewhere) – a sad indictment …..

David Oldfield

18/06/19 – 07:49

Surprisingly, when the Docklands Light Railway had a strike last year, 40-year old Metropolitan MD60 turned up on the replacement service. No corrosion apparent. So there’s a bit of life left in the design in London yet.

Bill

19/06/19 – 05:38

Bill, There are very few Metropolitans on the road now, because of the dreaded ‘metal moth’. MD60 is only in circulation thanks to a very lengthy (and no doubt costly) rebuild by the guys at Bus Works Blackpool and owners EnsignBus. See reference to it here: //ensignvintagebuses.blogspot.com

Petras409

26/06/19 – 09:45

Leicester Trust have one on the road as well.

Roger Burdett

17/07/19 – 07:04

Sister vehicle XMS6 (JLA 56D) finished up with The Violet Bus Service at Blackrock, County Louth but none of the Strachans bodied Merlins ended up with Citybus/Ulsterbus in Northern Ireland.

Bill Headley

18/07/20 – 07:18

I travelled on the Red Arrow XMS/MB family types many times in the early ’70’s . Blimey, everything rattled. Whether it was because they were driven with extreme gusto or that the bodywork was moving about I can only guess.
The Strachans JLA-D ones were the worst, the rear of the bus I know now wasn’t attached to the chassis – (is that really right?) which presumably accounted for the rolling and rattling. Still, the fare was only sixpence.

Roger Ingle

18/07/20 – 15:24

Roger I – I have also read that the rear end of the Strachans bodies were not attached to the chassis; and I believe that the same was true of a Daimler Roadliner bodied by East Lancs for Eastbourne Corporation. The thinking was that, with the heavy engine mounted almost at the extreme end of the rear engine, the chassis was inevitably prone to significant vibrations (cantilevering effect). It was anticipated that, over a period of time, this would have the effect of breaking the body structure in the middle, and that the problem would be more severe if the vehicle had a centre door.
The subsequent history tends to suggest that Strachans and East Lancs were correct in their assumptions. Unsurprisingly, the problem was particularly acute with long Daimler Fleetline single deckers, where the engine was mounted transversely, so that all of the weight was concentrated on the rear 3 feet of the chassis. In the mid-1990’s I had occasion to visit an independent operator who had several such Fleetline single deckers (ex-Darlington I think), and we were shown one where the roof above the centre doors had been strengthened at least twice. The effect could justifiably be compared to a camel!

Nigel Frampton

20/07/20 – 06:53

A floating cab was not unknown on half cabs. On breaking the back of rear engined buses. Once drove for a small(ish) coach operator who had four early Scania/Irizars. There were alarmingly evident cracks in the bodywork near the rear axle. Modern Irizars have a good reputation. Maybe they found a solution – but they hadn’t about twenty years ago.

David Oldfield

05/10/21 – 06:24

Thanks for the article and photos. I am making a model using Paragon Kits excellent resin kit so this will be very helpful for the detailing (I shall do it as original all seated with 46 seats).

Gordon Mackley

Reading Corporation – Bristol RE – KRD 258F – 258

Reading Corporation - Bristol RE - KRD 258F - 258

Reading Corporation
1967
Bristol RELL6G
Strachans B34D

KRD 258F, Reading 258, is another of the operator’s Bristol RELL6G fleet, with Strachans of Hamble B34D body (and the tribute to Burlingham’s “Seagull” motif). She’s seen at Wisley airfield, arriving for the open day there on 4 April 2004. Since the organisers’ move from Cobham to Brooklands, these events are now held at the latter site.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

07/11/13 – 07:27

When these were delivered they were likened to milk floats by some observers!

Chris Hough

07/11/13 – 09:39

As an ardent supporter of centre exit buses this seems a grand motor to me, but is it perhaps an optical illusion that it seems very short for a 36 foot vehicle ??

Chris Youhill

07/11/13 – 11:44

These are (Series 2) RELL-6 models, a special model, only produced in 1967/8. Reading had 28 with Pennine and 14 with Strachans bodies. The only others were 2 for Warrington with East Lancs bodies making a grand total of 44. The standard Series 2 model was the RELL-3 of which there were 2657 built. The RELL-3 had an 18’6″ wheelbase for 36’0″ x 8’2½” bodies. The RELL-6 had a 17’6″ wheelbase for between 32’6″ and 36’0″ long bodies. Regrettably I do not know the exact length of the bodied RELL-6s, but I suspect Chris that you are correct – they are less than 36’0″ long. [Any Reading or Bristol experts out there to fill us in?]

David Oldfield

08/11/13 – 06:46

I think it is quite a striking looking bus – enhanced by a good livery. Just wonder about reflections in the windscreens at night – they look very upright and flat in plan view.

Ian Wild

08/11/13 – 08:10

Apparently Reading were quite enamoured of their Burlingham Reliances and basically wanted the same again. Since Burlingham was no more it fell to Pennine and Strachans to put a modern twist on the original – and this is what they got, along with the “Burlingham” motif on the front.

David Oldfield

08/11/13 – 11:43

These were probably 32ft 6ins but, for some reason 32ft 9ins sticks in my mind!

Phil Blinkhorn

08/11/13 – 18:06

Can anyone supply a photo of the Pennine version? I assume that they too, were a good copy.

Chris Hebbron

09/11/13 – 06:13

Reading seems to have had a penchant for nonstandard versions of chassis and bodies. The Dennis Lolines were of an intermediate length also. A picture of a Pennine bodied Reading RE may be seen here:- www.sct61.org.uk/

Roger Cox

09/11/13 – 08:23

Just ferreted out of Simon Butler’s book on the RE that these were, indeed, 33’0″ long.

David Oldfield

09/11/13 – 09:01

Thanks for clarifying the length David. As regards the Birmingham style motif, all Reading single deckers after the Burlingham batch had this or a variation. These were built by Duple Northern in Blackpool after Burlingham had been taken over, Neepsend, Strachans and Pennine. Of course Reading also adorned the front panels of its Trolleybuses with additional brightwork.

Phil Blinkhorn

09/11/13 – 12:09

I assume Birmingham is a typo rather than a Freudian slip Phil?

David Oldfield

09/11/13 – 12:44

It’s the *!”**!! predictive text on my tablet.

Phil Blinkhorn

09/11/13 – 17:50

Keep taking the tablets, Mr Blinkhorn!!!!

Pete Davies

10/11/13 – 07:53

Until I saw your typo, Phil, I’d not even considered how close Birmingham and Burlingham were!

David Oldfield

11/11/13 – 15:24

On their home turf we called them “cattle trucks”. I though they were very good-looking vehicles, and certainly distinctive. The problem lay not in the buses themselves but in the politics and twisted economics that insulted passengers by forcing them to stand, when car-drivers were being cosseted and effectively subsidised.
Within 3 years of the opening of a huge competitor on a “retail park” our local pet-shop has just closed. Irrelevant? No: hypermarkets have it easy, basking in a favourable economic and planning climate that makes life very hard for small shops. By the way, I loathe the word “standee”…

Ian Thompson

12/11/13 – 06:04

Ian, I totally agree with your comments regarding the “twisted economics” of forcing passengers to stand while cars (aka the competition) were steadily becoming more comfortable and affordable (and they even had heaters that worked – wowee wow wow!). The term “cattle trucks” describes such buses well, and one dreads to think of the consequences should such a bus have been involved in a head-on collision whilst fully loaded. Your loathing of the word “standee” is interesting, and maybe I can help with an alternative. A few years ago, Burnley & Pendle introduced a fleet of Optare Versas to the townsfolk of Burnley. Instead of being in B&P’s very attractive red and cream however, they were delivered in a new livery of yellow and orange (more akin to mustard and terracotta). Added to this they were adorned with the fleetname ‘Starship’. I have been reliably informed that within a few days of the buses’ introduction, their drivers were becoming tired of passengers tendering their fares and saying “beam me up Scotty!”. I did wonder at the time if any standing passengers should therefore be referred to as Klingons?

Brendan Smith

12/11/13 – 12:07

Ian, I agree. Undoubtedly the ‘standees’ would have gazed enviously upon the ‘sitees’.

Roger Cox

15/11/13 – 17:55

Visions of Klingons and Sitees really made my day! Wonderful how the imagemongers and we-know-besters always unwittingly provide the pins with which to burst the bubble of their own pomposity. Recently a train company (whose fleeting name doesn’t even escape me, as it was totally unmemorable) announced that rather than providing more seats it was considering bumrests for non-sitees to lean against, presumably qualifying these unfortunate travellers as propees–or would that be better spelt proppees?
A search led me incidentally to one Tim Leunig, an economist who would love to see Margaret Thatcher’s Serpell Report revived with massive railway closures, and who actively encourages the standing-room-only approach.
Watch out for him: he’ll be at (but not ON) the buses next.

Ian Thompson

16/11/13 – 08:43

Sounds like South Eastern Trains – the white ones out to Kent.

David Oldfield

16/11/13 – 08:44

Interesting Ian – I confess I used to support the standing room only brigade – for the London commuter belt. It seemed a good way to encourage them to look for more congenial places to live and work! Unfortunately, with increasing train speeds, the London commuter belt includes Wiltshire, Lincolnshire and Yorkshire etc. now, so that previously comfortable trains are forced to become sardine tins. Travelling on a Worst Great Western HST in standard class is now like riding in a toastrack. Cross-Country is just as bad, and they don’t even have the excuse of “serving” London commuters! Sorry for rant -let’s get back on topic!

Stephen Ford

16/11/13 – 08:44

I returned to Burnley recently having lived there in the late 1960’s. I can remember when Burnley and Pendle was Burnley, Colne and Nelson Joint Transport Committee.My wife and I lived near Queensgate Depot and were often lulled to sleep by the last Tiger Cub running in from Reedley Halt. The strange livery mentioned above is still in use but I must say the revamped bus station is much better than the old one. Very civilised unlike Salisbury where I now live where the bus station has been sold by the asset strippers and the streets are clogged up by parked buses.

Paragon

28/07/17 – 06:45

I used to drive the Reading RE’s from 1973 to 1979,they were my favourite buses in the fleet at the time,the semi – auto gears were a pleasure to drive although the steering was heavy with a full load on.The heating was almost non existent so you froze to death in the winter months. The only visible difference between the Strachan bodied ones and the Pennine bodies. was a bit more silver beading on the sides and front of the Pennine ones.

Ray Hunt