Tag: Wakefields Motors

Wakefields Motors – Bedford SB5 – HFT 264 – 264


Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Wakefields Motors Ltd
1963
Bedford SB5
Plaxton C41F

The coach fleets of Northern General Transport and its subsidiaries was pretty much as you would expect from a BET company, usually an AEC, Guy or Leyland chassis, and a mixture of high quality bodies from several different Coachbuilders, so the arrival of these C41F Paxton Embassy II Bedford SB’s in 1963, came as somewhat of a surprise. I’m not suggesting that the SB was a bad vehicle, far from it, the gave many years of loyal service to a multitude of operators, but Bedford’s never played a significant role in the make up of BET group fleets, any that were around had either been bought for a specific purpose or had come in through the back door as the result of a takeover, so your guess is as good as mine as to why two of them came to be at Percy Main? As well as the Wakefields pair, HFT 264/5 – 264/5; I believe Sunderland District also had a some, and I presume all of them would have been either 8’s or 13’s with the Leyland engine, but I’m not aware of any others in the NGT set up. Life expectancy of NGT single deck and D/P vehicles was around 15 years, some of the touring coaches were withdrawn after about 10 years, but many were used for the longer express routes and lasted as long as their service cousins. This wasn’t the case with these Bedford’s. I started at Percy Main in 1967, and if memory serves, they were withdrawn at the end of the 1968 season. As far as ‘coaches’ were concerned, they were the last to carry the Wakefield’s name as all subsequent vehicles were D/P’s, and the name became defunct in 1970. As a footnote, the photo was taken outside The Gibraltar Rock Pub, located at Tynemouth terminus of what was at the time the service 11 to Newcastle, the location is only about 5 miles from Percy Main depot, and to me this photo looks like a publicity shot and the passengers are probably Percy Main office staff.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

15/05/13 – 09:22

Nice view, Ronnie. Thanks for posting. I know of other operators who used office staff in their publicity photos, so your theory in this case could well be correct.

Pete Davies

15/05/13 – 09:23

Yes, Ronnie – a strange choice of coach for a BET company. However, if they did want some lightweights then there was not much choice at the time, other than Ford Traders. I wonder if they were on lease hire, hence their short life with Wakefields?
This scene definitely looks staged. It was a common practice to enrol office staff to act as passengers for publicity shots. I remember one such occasion with Wallace Arnold when we were supposed to be tourists on a Swiss holiday (in the depths of a suburban Leeds country lane). I never saw the resulting pictures. Nobody minded, of course, as it got us out of the office for an hour or two.
Mind you, they couldn’t do this today as HSE would object to those two protuberances which could have someone’s eye out! (Sorry, but this was the age of The Likely Lads and Carry On films!)

Paul Haywood

15/05/13 – 10:57

Bedford? Very strange. Why? Because all the quality mainstream operators at that time tended towards the Ford 510E for their minority lightweight purchases – keeping them no longer than three years, often for only one season. [SUT, Yelloway, Wally Arnold, Hebble, Woollen – all ran Fords rather than SBs. SUT only ran SBs from operators who they had taken over.] OK; NGT ran non mainstream vehicles, including Guy Arab LUFs – but Wakefield ran Reliances, instead.

David Oldfield

17/05/13 – 07:17

“Oh, what happened to you? Whatever happened to me?” Well, Rodney Bewes – his voice at least – was the door announcer for the lifts in the last place I worked!

Pete Davies

18/05/13 – 08:15

Notice anything about “Bob’s” accent, Pete? Yorkshire, if not all that broad – Rodney Bewes is from Bingley. I think its called “auto-suggestion”: you’re told the sitcom is about two “likely-lads” from Tyneside – as and long as one of them has a Geordie accent then you simply don’t hear the Yorkshire tones of his partner. The Northern Fleetline/Atlantean-Alexanders (which would it have been?) in the opening titles have gone, are the Scotswood Road flats still standing? The Dunston Rocket, of Tudor Crisps fame (also now gone), has gone. And I’m not even going to mention Manor steps, aerial ropeways, and multi-storey car-parks from a certain cult gangster film.
From the mid to late 60s there seemed to be more of an interest in lightweight coaches from certain BET and THC operators. Perhaps this reflected a desire to be able to compete more effectively against independents for private hire business as stage-carriage work declined.

Philip Rushworth

18/05/13 – 16:57

David O – Yelloway was not an operator that ran Fords rather than SBs, the opposite was the case. They bought Fords only in 1961, 3 in total, including subsidiary fleets. They bought SBs each year from 1960 to 1965, excluding 1961, a total of 16.

David Williamson

19/05/13 – 07:18

But my point was that they ran Fords, not that they didn’t run Bedfords…..

David Oldfield

21/05/13 – 14:48

There has recently been some discussion on the SCT61 website about a photo of Wakefield’s Motors Beadle-bodied AEC/Beadle rebuilds 191 and 192 (FT 7791/2). The blind on 192 shows ‘PRIVATE’ with ‘RIPON LEYBURN AND RICHMOND’ in smaller capitals underneath. There has been much speculation as to what this destination was intended for and the North-East based followers of that site are mystified. Eric Bawden has suggested that it might have been used for forces’ leave services but I have no recollection of Wakefield’s doing such work and so I’m not convinced.
I wondered if anyone – obviously, I’m particularly thinking of Ronnie Hoye as the Tynemouth/Wakefield’s expert – would know why this particular destination appeared on a Wakefield’s blind.
The photograph was taken in 1960 in Whitby so it doesn’t offer any clues.

Alan Hall

22/05/13 – 07:24

Can’t say for certain, Alan. I know a fair bit about T&W but I’m by no means an expert, but my opinion would be that Wakefields coaches all had the longer Northern express route destinations on their blinds, and vehicles with Percy Main crews could often be found being used as duplicates on some of the routes. If memory serves, the Newcastle Liverpool route ran through Ripon, Harrogate and Leeds, but I cant remember any that went via Richmond or Leyburn.

Ronnie Hoye

23/05/13 – 07:54

map

I’ve been talking to a friend who was at Percy Main when I was, and he too is at a loss as to why Leyburn and Richmond should be on the destination blind. Wakefields had two batches of AEC Beadles, FT 7275/80 – 175/80 and FT 7791/2 – 191/2; 175/80 were FC35F and classified as coaches, whereas 191/2 were FC39F D/P’s, they also had slightly different fronts, the coaches had more bright trim under the windscreen and no number section on the destination layout. The coach blinds carried all Northern express route destinations, but the D/P’s had a shortened version of the stage carriage blind with the express section added.

Ronnie Hoye

27/05/13 – 06:50

Thanks, Ronnie: I appreciate your trouble but it seems that Richmond and Leyburn are mysteries that have us all stumped.
Sadly, we’ll probably never know now.
I’ve dug out an old timetable from that era (1959, as it happens) which shows the hospital services which were licensed to Northern and Wakefield’s (no other group members), but nothing from as far away as Richmond or Leyburn features. As a matter of interest, the ones from the North Tyneside area (presumably the ones which were operated by Wakefield’s) were North Shields to Prudhoe Hall Colony – what a dreadful name, Wallsend to St George’s Hospital at Morpeth and North Shields to Earl’s House Hospital near Durham.
I think that’s my earliest Northern Group timetable but I have others from the ’60s which are stored at my mother’s house. I’ll look them out next time I’m there on the off chance that they may lead us to the solution.

Alan Hall

04/06/13 – 06:49

Ronnie, I’ve now checked the 1960, 1961 and 1962 timetables and there isn’t anything in any of those to indicate why Richmond and Leyburn might have been on Wakefield’s blinds.
I wonder if it was simply wishful thinking. You’ll remember that Newcastle’s trolleybus blinds included several places South of the Tyne, such as Dunston, Gateshead and Low Fell, in the hope/expectation that the wires would eventually cross the river as the tram wires had. I suspect that this may have been a similar example of ‘ready in case ever needed’.

Alan Hall

05/06/13 – 10:58

Alan, I have no evidence to back up this theory, but the only thing I can think of is perhaps Northern applied for an additional alternative route for the Leeds service, but this was United territory, and no doubt they would have objected strongly unless it was going to be a shared service.

Ronnie Hoye

30/12/13 – 07:13

Just discovered your site today while searching for pics of the type of coach I drove during my service at R.A.F College Cranwell. Exactly what I was looking for, in fact as my coach was 27AC58. My home town was Scarborough which was very lucky for me as I was given the job of taking the college band to Scarborough for their annual fortnight visit.

Robert Robinson

10/04/15 – 07:27

I have a couple of photos of Wakefields vehicles showing Scarborough as a destination. That would not be a normal destination for a Northern Group Express coach unless it was the practice to hire them to United on Summer Saturdays for their Newcastle-Scarborough service. However, Scarborough was a destination for day tours. On the assumption that Ripon, Leyburn and Richmond was also a day tour, I have visited North Shields library to look for Wakefields Adverts for their tours in the local newspaper, and can confirm that this was indeed a Wakefields day tour.

John Gibson

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

08/03/16 – 05:26

I knew I wasn’t imagining this, SDO had two identical vehicles, 3730 & 3731 UP – 330/1, and Northern had eight Bedford’s with C41F Harrington bodies, PCN 1/8 – 2601/8. I dont know about the rest, but the two for Wakefields were sold on after three years, and went to Hylton Castle Coaches of Sunderland

Ronnie Hoye

Wakefields Motors – AEC Reliance – FT 9002 – 202

Wakefields Motors - AEC Reliance - FT 9002 - 202

Wakefields Motors
1955
AEC Reliance MU3RV
Weymann C41F

Am I in a minority, or was the Weymann Fanfare one of the most handsome coach bodies ever built? Whatever chassis they were on they looked exactly what they were, well designed, well built and comfortable. To me they fell into the same category as the first Burlingham Seagulls, nothing flash, brash or arrogant, just a quiet understated elegance, and any subsequent ‘improvements’ usually took the edge off something that was right in the first place. The Northern General Transport group had 16 in total, all delivered in 1955: 197 to 202 are from the Wakefields fleet; Outwardly they all looked pretty much the same, but the six Wakefields versions, FT 8997/9002, 197/202, were C41F on an AEC MU3RV chassis, they were mainly used for private hires, day tours and excursions. By contrast, the 10 Northern ECN 680/9, 1680/9; were C37F on a Guy Arab UF chassis with Gardner 6HLW engines, initially they were used primarily for extended tours and continental work, hence the smaller seating capacity. Both types were reliable workhorses and lasted well, I think the last ones were withdrawn in 1971. When not being used for tours the Guy’s were frequently to be found earning their keep on the express services from Newcastle to Liverpool or Blackpool. This was the pre motorway era, and the route to Liverpool in particular involved a long hard slog over the Pennine’s, so they didn’t exactly have an easy life. Percy Main did not have any express routes, but at busy times Wakefields coaches with P/M crews, could often be found displaying ‘on hire to Northern’ stickers, and working Northern express routes as duplicates. The AEC’s were certainly not underpowered, and if anything they were a bit livelier than the Guy’s on the flat, but once you hit the hills, it wasn’t long before the Guy would show you a clean pair of heels.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

23/06/13 – 08:39

Yes, Ronnie, you may very well be in a minority, but you are most certainly not alone. The only question to me is which of the four designs was the most elegant: this one, the Harrington Cavalier, the early Seagull, or the one Leyland produced for the Royal Tiger. One model railway forum of which I am a member has regular polls on different topics: I wonder!!!!!!!

Pete Davies

23/06/13 – 09:31

Well, as you know, Ronnie, I’m a Seagull, Fanfare AND Dalesman fan.

i) Seagull
ii) Cavalier/Grenadier
iii) Fanfare
iv) Dalesman

David Oldfield

23/06/13 – 14:51

North Western took the prototype which had been exhibited at the 1954 Commercial Motor Show with a long rectangular destination panel next to a three track number indicator in the same panel as the vehicle above. Later vehicles had the indicators removed to the roof line.
I agree that from most aspects the body was was a handsome. well designed and well built. My only gripe would be the heavy rear corner pillars which, combined with the curve to the roof line, from the rear made the vehicle look very round shouldered.

Phil Blinkhorn

23/06/13 – 17:21

I’m another Fanfare fan, and especially of the Northern General Guys, which were my absolute favourite coaches on the Liverpool service.

Peter Williamson

25/06/13 – 07:42

Ronnie, I must also add my name to the list of ‘Fanfare Fans’. Your comments about their appearance are spot on, and as a youngster I always felt privileged on seeing one glide through Harrogate on express work. They always looked very smart in Northern’s fine cream and rich red livery, and I can see one now in my mind’s eye, circumnavigating the floral roundabout from Station Parade onto tree-lined Victoria Avenue, and then off into in the summer sun. Wonderful. In those far off days, to my young eyes the Fanfare was one of those coaches that was not only beautiful to look at, but exuded a sort of ‘cuddliness’ with its curves. Another one in that class was the Burlingham Seagull, closely followed by the Bristol LS coach, with its bewhiskered Bristol-ECW badge on the front. Some modern bus and coach designs do try to look friendly with their ‘smiley’ frontal styling, but this just looks like an ‘add-on’ somehow. The Fanfare looked the part and did it without even trying.

Brendan Smith

25/06/13 – 11:51

I liked the Fanfare too, but the rear end was dreadfully old fashioned for a design introduced in 1954 – and compare it to the contemporary Duple Elizabethan which would have won hands down on looks. Duple, of course, only made the Elizabethan for two years before replacing it with the first version of the Britannia (and its centre-entrance sister the Brittanic), which to my eyes were simply dreadful. I much preferred the later versions of the Britannia built from 1959-62. Plaxton designs in the early years of Fanfare production were also fairly abysmal, especially the front entrance version of the Consort, and Harrington’s Wayfarer III/IV were an acquired taste – the front dome just looked wrong compared to the rest of it. And as for Yeates’ Europa and the later Burlingham Seagulls, the word “abominations” seems appropriate!
I may be eccentric (is there any doubt?) but my own favourites in coach design between 1951 and 1958 are:-
1) The original centre entrance Burlingham Seagull
2) The Whitson Grand Prix
3) The Bellhouse Hartwell Landmaster (especially the ones with the breast shaped headlight fairings!)
4) The Windover Kingsway
5) The ACB Coronation Land Cruiser
I’d also give an honourable mention to the Trans-United Brabazon (as supplied to Yelloway on Regal IV and Royal Tiger chassis)
As for the Harrington Cavalier, although an attractive design in 1960, it was rapidly overtaken by the stunning good looks of the (30ft long versions) of the Panorama model produced from 1961-64. Longer versions of this design had a distinct droop at the rear end which spoiled the effect.
When we’ve finished talking about underfloor engined coach designs, who would agree with me that Gurney Nutting’s fully-fronted Mertonian design on half-cab style chassis was impressive? I’ve also seen it described as monstrous!

Also, just a quick comment to Phil – the Fanfare prototype supplied to North Western (FDB 570) was actually delivered to NWRCC with the standard Fanfare blind display (as above) and was modified to show a separate route number at a later stage. North Western also modified the blind apertures on their 1958 Harrington Wayfarer IVs to suit standard blinds.

Neville Mercer

25/06/13 – 17:00

Very rare I disagree with Neville but I don’t think the Windovers gelled and the Bellhouse Hartwell was spoiled by the protuberances. Couldn’t agree more about Plaxton. The half-cab/full-front design was classic followed by years of “Oh gawd, what have they done now!?” Along with SUT (of blessed and bitter memory) I was a huge Plaxton fan in the period 1960 – 1982. [They then lost the plot in the Paramount years and the quality dropped to that of Duple just before their demise in 1989. They say the new ones have regained the quality: time will tell.] Question for our esteemed expert (Neville). Don’t you think the Trans United Brabazon was a rip off of the Landmaster?

David Oldfield

25/06/13 – 17:01

Another Fanfare fan here too Ronnie! I loved the Sheffield ones and for me the addition of a route indicator was not detrimental. These were used on the routes into the Derbyshire Peak District and one’s destination arrived all too soon if you were on one of these! However – my twelve points go to the Seagull, of which I rode the SUT classics, Ten points to the Fanfare, My eight points to the Grenadier / Crusader with Grey Cars being prime examples for me, and, like David O, the Dalesman would be next. Of the Duple designs, top contender is the “butterfly” front.

Les Dickinson

26/06/13 – 06:00

I can understand your dislike of the Kingsway, David. It had a certain “Marmite” quality to it. To me the design brings back memories of my first visit to Scarborough in the early 1960s where I marvelled at the rear-entrance examples operated by EYMS and YTC. I was heavily into sci-fi at the time, and something about the Kingsway shouted “the future was here….and now it’s gone”, a bit like TSR2 if you remember that aircraft! The Landmaster, on the other hand, I’ll defend to the death. Mixed martial arts?
On the front-engined front, I think that most of us would agree with Les about the butterfly front Super Vega of the 1956-58 variety. A genuine classic and much better than the final two versions which (to me) always looked as if they’d been eating too many pies.

Neville Mercer

26/06/13 – 06:00

Some things just seem to look right regardless, the Fanfare being a classic example, but obviously some liveries look better than others, and what looks good to some is hideous to others. Keep it plain and simple seems to be the secret. Just for fun and in no particular order, here is my selection for 50’s mid 60’s classics. The following are all on an under floor chassis,
The original centre entrance Burlingham Seagull
ECW as per Bristol LS or Leyland LUT ‘United coach livery for preference’
Weymann Fanfare
Harrington Cavalier
Roe Dalesman
All Leyland Royal Tiger
Duple Roadmaster
and the pre ‘Y’ type Alexander used by many of the Scottish operators, I believe North Western also had a few of them. As for front engine chassis?
Duple Butterfly front, and a strange one perhaps, the beadle rebodies used by many BET group companies

Ronnie Hoye

26/06/13 – 06:00

Neville, if your taste in coach body-work is mirrored by your taste in ladies then you must have dated some real rough specimens in your time! But, can we take it that Mrs Mercer had/has “Bellhouse Hartwell Landmaster” attributes? My favourites?
1) Harrington Cavalier;
2) Harrington Grenadier with Cavalier front panels;
3) Harrington Grenadier;
4) any other possible combination of Grenadier/Cavalier bits I may not currently recall/know about;
5) the last real ECW coach body of the early 1970s;
6) the B51(?) ECW DP body of the late 1980s – can this sneak in as a coach? (didn’t some of them have single piece doors anyway? which would class them as a coach in my opinion);
7) that Willowbrook “cut-price Plaxton/Duple” DP effort of the same period – the one that no NBC subsidiary seemed to want, but which to me seemed to have an elegant simplicity and authenticity about it! Mrs Rushworth? alas in the last ten years gone from Cavalier to Yeates Riviera – but don’t tell her I said that!

Philip Rushworth

26/06/13 – 11:46

Gentlemen, I know that even the mention of Midland Red has many of you running to the barricades, but I would like to nominate their C5 motorway coach. Considering the prototype came out in 1958, it was a mould-breaker which set the standard for high-speed coaching. No doubt many will consider them to be little more than dual-purpose buses but, for me, so were the all-Leylands and Duple Roadmasters.

Paul Haywood

26/06/13 – 11:47

Phillip, I suspect that you were bottle-fed as a baby! And are you really saying that all of your favourite coaches pre-1970 were Cavalier/Grenadier variants? I notice that you don’t list any Crusader or Legionaire models although these had many similarities to the blessed Cavalier. Speaking of which, why has nobody produced a decent 1/50 or 1/76 scale Cavalier? EFE’s version was done on the cheap and it shows – it’s inaccurate for almost every operator except Yelloway because of the lack of front-dome roof-lights. And on the Yelloway version they screwed things up by the completely inaccurate destination and “via” blinds. It’s still hard to believe that somebody at EFE thought that “Rhyl” was spelled that way! If EFE weren’t so reluctant to admit their many glaring errors (and to get better “experts” to check their final artwork), they might have made amends by re-releasing their 119xx casting in Yelloway livery but showing accurate blinds for the Torquay or London routes. And as for their “Grenadier” model so much is wrong with it that it’s little better than a toy.

Neville Mercer

26/06/13 – 11:47

The Fanfare was as many have said an attractive understated coach The basic design was spoilt when Weymann added a barrel windscreen and dubbed it the Castilian

Chris Hough

27/06/13 – 07:06

Neville, perhaps I’m more forgiving, but – looking at the display cases above my desk – I’m just glad that in the last 25(?) years I’ve been able to build up a collection of ready-built models from LAD-cabbed Albion trucks to safari-wrapped EYMS Wrights . . . although I do agree that some of the errors have been unforgiveable – “West Yorkshire” on the back of OOCs/EFEs(?) OB and the wrong colour red on OOCs Huddersfield CVG (and on . . . and on . . . until we get to the white tween-decks band on EFE’s Bradford RT!). Pre-70 coach-wise I’ve done some thinking: Alexander produced a nice design, of which Barton took some; Y-type with a single door (Premier Travel, Venture, Eastern Scottish,); ECW produced functional products – but not that MW body with the stepped waist-rail, and the first RE body was behind its time (Lodekka grille on a coach?) when first released. Perhaps I was a bit tight Neville, but I’m not going to budge any further. And yes, bottle feeding was the rage in the 1960s.

Philip Rushworth

28/06/13 – 06:20

I must agree, it certainly is a handsome coach. We had at least 1 in Sheffield,(reg ???? WB) although it may have been a Leyland. Again used on the 8&9 routes I used at the time. I am not familiar with some of the other styles mentioned, but imagine it stood alongside what other buses would look like, in the mid 50s,in Sheffield, it must have been the best looking by far.

Andy Fisher

28/06/13 – 06:22

I worked for Boddys Bridlington from 1967 who had a fleet of older coaches for seasonal use as well as the modern fleet we had some Fanfares FDB 570, AHD 820, NCY 624,PWN 64,PWN 65,

Ken Wragg

28/06/13 – 14:18

Philip, I quite agree with all the model errors you list, and – like you – I’m pleased to live in a world where there’s a wider variety of model buses on offer than a Routemaster and an Atlantean with imaginary bodywork! But that can’t let EFE off the hook when they make really basic errors that any die-cast equivalent of a proof-reader should have spotted a mile away. They do, after all, boast about the accuracy of their models, which entitles us to whinge when they get it seriously wrong. Especially given that they’re the ones making money and we’re the ones spending it!
Incidentally has everyone noticed that Oxford Die-cast are planning to release a Fanfare in 1/76? I’m still waiting to see how accurate the colours are on their Ribble all-Leyland Royal Tiger coach given the seriously wrong shades shown in their current image on line. The second release of the Royal Tiger (Southdown) seems to have the same front dome as the Ribble one, whereas in reality the two versions were totally different. But I live in hope of some decent coach models. Can somebody prod OOC into releasing more of their excellent Mk 1 Seagull?
Speaking of the Seagull, a slightly late reply to David because I missed the original comment on first reading (senile?). I can see what you mean about the TU Brabazon being derivative, but it seems to me like a handsome mix of BH (the front end, minus appendages) and Burlingham (the side view aft of the cab). I imagine that all of these Lancashire coachbuilders kept a close eye on each other’s designs.

Neville Mercer

01/07/13 – 07:33

HDK 804

Just so that people know what David O and I are referring to, here is a Yelloway example of the Trans-United Brabazon. (photographer unknown – print via GMTS Archive)

Neville Mercer

01/11/13 – 07:54

One AEC Reliance 470 that ! have fond memories of is 1632 NO. It was new to Frank Harris of Grays with a Duple body. Following an RTA, it was rebodied in 1962 with a Harrington Cavalier C43F body. The Coach firm from Bugbrooke Northamptonshire who provided the Coaches I went to school on acquired it in (I think) late 1974. The Harrington standard seats are the most comfortable that I have EVER sat on. It was a smashing vehicle to ride on. It is a crying shame that this lovely Coach is now in that great coach park in the sky.

Stemax1960

Wakefields Motors – AEC Reliance – FT 9000 – 200


Copyright Unknown

Wakefields Motors
1955
AEC Reliance MU3RV
Weymann C41F

I’ve recently been to an Historic vehicle rally at Seaburn, and as usual I came back with a load of photos, some I took and others I bought. But I managed to get hold of one that has eluded me for a while, and that is a colour photo of one of Wakefields Weymann Fanfares. Isn’t that simply glorious, understated, simple, and elegant. Modern designers take note!
I have posted one of these vehicles before but I think the colour shot warrants a further posting. You can view my previous posting and comments at the following link FT 9002 – 202

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

28/08/14 – 05:47

Lets raise (another) cheer for the Fanfare – or possibly a fanfare for the Fanfare? Super photo. Obviously I’m all for the original and best Reliance version but what else was on offer? Guy Arab LUF, Leyland Leopard (or Tiger Cub). You really couldn’t lose, whichever version you went for.

David Oldfield

28/08/14 – 10:35

As you will know, David, Wakefields had six on a Reliance chassis, and parent company, Northern had ten on a Guy Arab LUF with Gardner 6HLW engines. Northern specified a lower capacity 37 seat version, at first the were used on extended tour work and spent much of their time away from their home base. Off season, they were frequently to be found earning their keep on the Trans Pennine Liverpool Express route. This was pre motorway days, and any east-west route to Liverpool was a long hard slog. Mechanically, they were well up to the job, and some would argue they offered a degree of passenger comfort that has never been matched. At busy times, they were often joined by their Wakefields cousins, who, along with their Percy Main crews, were drafted in as duplicates on the route. As for longevity, in 1964, all 16 were refurbished by Plaxton, the AEC’s were withdrawn at the end of the 1968 season, and the Guy’s at the end of 1969. It’s such a pity that none seem to have survived into preservation.

Ronnie Hoye

01/09/14 – 08:45

I’ll happily raise another cheer for the Fanfare any day. I’ll not only endorse Ronnie’s comment about passenger comfort, but for the LUFs on the Tyne-Tees-Mersey express I’ll raise an extra cheer for musical entertainment!

Peter Williamson

Wakefields Motors – AEC Regent II – FT 6156 – 156

Wakefields Motors - AEC Regent II - FT 6156 - 156

Wakefields Motors
1948
AEC Regent II
Weymann H30/26R

Having completed its journey, 156 is seen here turning round at Whitley Bay Bandstand before returning to North Shields Ferry Landing. The service 8 was known to crews as ‘the track’ because it followed the exact route of the Tynemouth and District trams. The AEC Regent II chassis was well built, rugged and reliable, and was available in two options, take it or leave it. The engine was a 7.7 litre diesel, and the transmission was a 4-speed sliding mesh gearbox with friction clutch. It was an entirely different matter when it came to choice of body. NGT Percy Main depot opted for the H30/26R Weymann. This is one of twenty nine of the type delivered to them between 1947 & 48; the 1947 intake were FT 5698 to 5712, 128/142, and 1948 were FT 6143 to 6156; 143/156; they were all ‘Tynemouth’ apart from 141 – 142 & 156 which carried the Wakefields name. The first vehicles to carry this style of livery layout were the 1958 Orion bodied PD3/4’s, so the photo is after that date, but just look at the collection of coaches in the background.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

10/11/14 – 06:58

Good to see a Regent II. I used to take them for granted in Reading, where they were the mainstay of the motorbus fleet from 1947 to 64, but they seem rare today. Was the choice of 5 bays a matter of date, of chassis design or of operator’s choice?

Ian T

10/11/14 – 08:23

According to “Weymann Part 2”, these were delivered (due to shortages) without destination blinds and with metal panelling covering the “empty holes”.

David Oldfield

10/11/14 – 11:47

I think that the matter of 4- or 5-bay bodywork is a matter of date. The 5-bay was standard in the immediate post-war years, on AEC and other makes. I am fairly sure I read somewhere that Weymann re-designed the body as four-bay for the AEC Regent III chassis, but did not build it on other makes/types, at least initially. Perhaps those with access to the “Weymann Part 2” book will find some detail, as my memory may be in “error mode” on this one.

Michael Hampton

10/11/14 – 13:31

Michael, I don’t know when the change came about, but Percy Main’s 1952 Guy Arab III’s ‘FT 7381/90 – 181/90 were four bay type. They were also P/M’s first 8ft wide D/D’s, and the first with sliding cab doors.

Ronnie Hoye

10/11/14 – 13:32

I think, originally, that AEC and the body-builders colluded to make a four bay body – but it relied on body fixing points. Guy and then Leyland eventually caught up by building chassis with compatible points and then Daimler. [Bristol was obviously a different case.] What was more interesting was the reversion to five short bays with the appalling early Orions.

David Oldfield

14/11/14 – 14:56

What was the difference between a Regent II & III’s. We had Regent III’s in Sheffield around the same year. They had pre selector gearboxes though.

Andy Fisher

15/11/14 – 05:41

AEC Regent. Mark I, II and III.
AEC Regent 661 petrol engine was built from 1929-1942, powered by an AEC A145 7.4 litre engine, many of the early examples had the open staircase later enclosed and the typical 30 seats over 26 seat layout became the standard design on a 27 foot long by 7 feet 6 inch wide chassis with over 7000 built.
AEC Regent Mk II 661/O661 was developed in the late 1930’s at 27 feet 6 inches by 7 feet 6 inches with the A173, 7.7 litre 6 cylinder diesel oil engine, resulting in the London Transport RT 1-151, the Regent II was curtailed during the second world war but recommenced after the war with only 700 built.
After the war AEC with London Passenger Transport Board had developed the AEC Regent III O961 with the more powerful AEC 9.6 litre engine. 8261 were built over the next 10 years, most of these were the iconic RT for London Transport.

Ron Mesure

15/11/14 – 05:42

The Regent II had a 7.7 litre engine, sliding mesh gearbox and vacuum brakes. The Regent III was its successor, and could be supplied with the same spec, in which case there was very little difference between the two. Most Regent IIIs however had the 9.6 litre engine, and many of these had air brakes and air-operated preselector gearboxes (especially in Yorkshire!). In this form the Regent III was a development of the London RT type which had its origins just before the war.

Peter Williamson

14/12/18 – 06:24

I have only just noticed that four years ago Ron Mesure attempted to give a fuller and more detailed answer to Andy Fisher’s question than mine. Unfortunately this is mainly incorrect.
Firstly, the petrol engines used in the Regent 661 were of 6.1 litre capacity, the 7.4 litre A145 being reserved for the three-axle Renown. Diesel engines included an 8.8 litre and a 6.6 litre unit as well as a couple of Gardners (rarely fitted).
Secondly, the version with the 7.7 litre engine was not called Regent II before the war and did not include RT1-151, which used a 9.6 litre engine like all subsequent RTs. Although designated as O661 and built before the Regent II was introduced, RT1-151 (and an odd similar chassis for Glasgow) are now regarded as the first Regent IIIs.
Thirdly, the lengths quoted are incorrect, as the maximum length of a two-axle double decker was 26 feet until 1950.

Peter Williamson

Wakefields Motors – AEC Regent I – FT 2611 – 42


Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Wakefields Motors
1932
AEC Regent I
Short Bros – Northern Coachbuilders H56R (1945)

Featured elsewhere on this site is a posting of a 1931 Short Bros bodied AEC Regent of Portsmouth Corporation. Between 1931/2 Percy Main depot took delivery of 16 virtually identical vehicles, I cant be absolutely certain about the fleet or registration numbers, but my information suggests they came in two batches of eight, and were FT 2516/23 – 34/41 in 1931; and FT 2611/18 – 42/9 in 1932: In 1940, three of them, 39/41 were transferred to Northern. All 16 were rebodied by Northern Coachbuilders, the first was 49, that was during the war years and it received a utility body, it too was also transferred, but the remainder were done in 1945, and all as seen here. All the vehicles that remained at Percy Main retained their original fleet numbers, four of them, 42/5, carried the Wakefields name, but that apart they were all identical.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

28/07/13 – 07:36

These bodies were notorious for sagging (green wood in the frames) but this one looks smart – probably photographed when the body was new. Is that a retro-fitted post-war radiator? Looks a little long – certainly compared with Sheffield’s 1952 rebuilds of 1938/9 Regent I chassis which retained the original (short) radiators.

David Oldfield

28/07/13 – 10:37

The high gloss and standard of finish of this very attractive body suggests at least a repaint and possibly an overhaul, hence no sag! I notice it’s been given the later, longer, AEC rad, which always improved the frontal appearance.

Chris Hebbron

28/07/13 – 12:44

You mention the high gloss, Chris, even as late as 1967, when I first started at Percy Main, all vehicles were repainted every three years, they were hand painted, and the process was five coats, the last one being a clear varnish. But ‘here we go again’ that was pre NBC, and all the NGT group companies had a pride in their fleets, as did the vast majority of operators at the time.

Ronnie Hoye

29/07/13 – 07:47

There was some discussion on the SCT site a while ago about the NGT pre-war SOS which was rebodied with this style of NCB body in 1945. Noting that Ronnie states that these AEC’s were also rebodied in 1945 and taking that date to be correct, would that make NCB the first British coachbuilder to produce bodywork to full peacetime standards after WW2?

Chris Barker

29/07/13 – 14:53

I can’t help noticing that, disregarding the front end, the rest of this bus looks remarkably similar to Halifax Corporation/JOC’s Park Royal-bodied Regents of 1947-50. These were based on Park Royal’s wartime utility design with a prewar-style rear dome and the frontal profile modified to resemble the current postwar metal-framed design.
As I understand it, Park Royal were responsible for designing the original utility double-deck body for the MoS which other manufacturers then put their own interpretation on. NCB did build some utilities, so I wonder if these and their early postwar bodies were based on the Park Royal utility design.

John Stringer

29/07/13 – 17:39

Thanks for offering this, Ronnie. Another gem from your collection.
So far as pride in the fleet is concerned, it does seem to have carried forward into what is now the Go Ahead Group, if my experiences with Brighton & Hove, Oxford, and the “Go South Coast” members (Solent Blue Line, Southern Vectis and Wilts & Dorset) are any guide. The punters notice such things, too, with the local member of that group based in Aberdeen getting a far less favourable press than GA.

Pete Davies

30/07/13 – 07:19

Interesting to see such a modern-looking body on a chassis with semi-floating rear axle. The short bay ahead of the platform intrigues me too: did the chassis have the older 15′ 6½” wheelbase? A standard postwar NCB body would have been designed around a roughly 16′ 3″ wheelbase, so this one would have needed adapting.
Whatever the structural problems may have been, I still find these bodies very good-looking.

Ian Thompson

31/07/13 – 07:54

I submitted some thoughts too this Old Bus website in 2012 on post-war NCB design relating to the Bradford Corporation re-bodied AEC 661T trolleybuses 597 to 632 series from 1946 through to 1949 and resubmit my views to this debate. These views can be found on the OB site under Newcastle Corporation – Daimler.

Richard Fieldhouse

Wakefields Motors – AEC Regal – FT 7278 – 178

Wakefields Motors - AEC Regal - FT 7278 - 178

Wakefields Motors
1952
AEC Regal 1
Beadle FC35F

These Beadle bodies were popular with many BET group companies, most were built on refurbished pre war chassis, usually AEC or Leyland, and that was certainly the case with ten of Northern General Transport. However, from as early as 1923, NGT had a number of vehicles built on their own chassis. The post war chassis list were classified as NGT/AEC and numbered 132/174, I’m not sure if NGT built the chassis from scratch or if they were refurbished, but they all had AEC running gear and A173 engines. Between 1951/3, 43 were built, 37 bodied by Picktree to NGT designs, the service vehicles were affectionately know as “Kipper boxes”

Northern General Transport post war chassis list

YearChassisRegistrationFleet Number
1951132BCN 888 1388
1952134/42 CCN 368/761368/76
1952149CCN 404 1404
All FC35F Picktree A
1952150/9CCN 677/861457/66
1953172/4DCN 93/51493/5
All FC35F Picktree B
1951133CCN 4021402
1953160/71 DCN 67/781467/78
All B43F Picktree/NGT

However, six chassis 143-48 were bodied elsewhere; the 1952 Percy Main intake included six coaches with Beadle FC35F bodies, FT 7275/80 – 175/80. Two more arrived in 1953, FT 7791/2 – 191/2, but I cant find a chassis listing for them, so it’s possible they may have been re-bodies. The second two were FC39F and classed as D/P’s, and had a different treatment to the fronts with less bright trim and a number section on the destination layout. At the time the first six were delivered the predominant colour for the coach fleet was red, but the livery later reverted to the more familiar cream.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye

19/09/13 – 18:12

The style of body is very similar to those which Beadle applied to various rebuilds for Southdown (MUF 488 is preserved) and East Kent (FFN 446 is preserved) of the same era, so Ronnie’s suggestion that the lack of chassis details may indicate rebody (or rebuild) is quite plausible. Nice view, Ronnie. Thanks for posting!

Pete Davies

20/09/13 – 12:42

Pete, on the subject of preserved Beadles, some while ago, the N.E.B.P.T. Ltd found one of Northern’s 1953 Beadles “DCN 83” in a scrap yard. Apparently, it was in a dreadful state, and some debate ensued as to whether or not it was beyond redemption. However, a deal was struck and it was transported home to the North East where it is currently being restored. The trust is nothing if not thorough, so don’t expect miracles time wise, but I’m certain that the finished article will be done to their usual very high standards.

Ronnie Hoye

20/09/13 – 18:13

Thanks for that, Ronnie. Good news indeed! Are members of the group now looking for a suitable chassis, or do they have one that was waiting for a body?

Pete Davies

21/09/13 – 08:27

Pete, if you type DCN 83 into your search engine, it should take you to an article on the trusts web site. It only gives a brief outline, but there’s quite a bit of background information about the vehicle. As you will see, there are several differences to the one in the posting. It has a different front and destination layout, and for some reason it has a large front near side cab window and doesn’t have a cab door, having said that, some of them didn’t have a bulkhead behind the driver, so that would render a N/S cab door surplus to requirements.

Ronnie Hoye

22/09/13 – 07:45

Thanks, Ronnie!

Pete Davies