Leeds City Transport 1954 AEC Regent III MCW H33/25R
Photo taken Leeds city bus station information from my now found official fleet lists my Leeds one is dated May 1964.
“TNW 757 entered service 1st December 1954. It was withdrawn 29th October 1970. The batch 755- 759 were all then sold to Telefilm Transport Ltd in November 1970 but immediately passed on to Pickersgill & Lavery at Barnsley for scrap”
Terry Malloy
TNW 759 of this batch of five buses (755 – 759) was fitted with an experimental “self locking” fluid flywheel ” a vicious device which made it very difficult to give a decent ride even for those of us who could be bothered to try ” many couldn’t. This mechanical pest earned 759 the nickname of “Leaping Lena” – a title which was confirmed by a very prominent piece of “BIRO GRAFFITI” above the windscreen.
Chris Youhill
Bring back the old two shades of green livery.
Anonymous
Here here Anonymous – I couldn’t agree more strongly – AND some windows which can be seen through instead of passengers having to look at the back of zany and largely ineffective advertising !! The last time that passengers were obliged to tolerate “horse box” gloom like this was in the London Blitz of WW2 when London Transport were obliged to board up shattered windows to keep the vehicles in service.
Chris Youhill
You can have your two shades of green if we can have our various applications of blue and cream in Sheffield and Rotherham – and proper green in my current neck of Surrey!
David Oldfield
Its a deal David !! There was no more handsome sight in Leeds Bus station than the Sheffield vehicles in cream and blue on service 67, especially sometimes the rare ECW bodied examples. As far as lovely leafy Surrey is concerned I just have to say “Bring back the immortal Godstone STLs.” Quite irrelevant I admit, but my first ever car was a 1934 Standard 9 – £25 “0n the road” – which was registered in Surrey – BPE 405 and affectionately nicknamed “Beepy” for obvious reasons. I shall now be missing for a few days as I’m having my right eye cataract removed tomorrow, and if its as excellent as the left one in February I shall be grateful and delighted.
Chris Youhill
The first Orions I ever saw were on Aldershot & District’s 1954 Dennis Lances, and at the time I thought they looked cheap and homemade, with only the nice two-tone green livery to redeem them. The Leeds Regent IIIs again prove that two greens (though very different from A&D’s) can bring a metal box to life. SUK 3, the ex-Wolverhampton Guy Arab IV at Wythall, proves again what a fine livery can do for an Orion, which I think looks its worst in BET overall red. For a design whose hideous incompetence shines triumphantly through any livery, I’ll go for those front-entrance Park Royal Southampton and Swindon deckers of the 1960s. Apparently the A&D Orions were about a ton lighter than their handsome East Lancs brethren, something for which the pre-war Gardner 5LWs they inherited must have been very grateful, and Tim Stubbs tells me that the Orion batch had to be sent back to Dennises to have the springs softened to cope with the unexpected lightness!
Ian Thompson
29/10/14 – 17:24
Hi after looking through your Pages of old AEC Buses! with great memories. Can you tell me any information about the bus that I used to travel home from school on in the early 1950s in Leeds, it was on the no 42 route traveling from Harehills to Lower Wortley traveling past Harehills County Secondary School. The bus had fleet no 700, the seats on this bus were not straight backed, each seat seat bent in the middle.
David Hill
30/10/14 – 07:11
Ian Thompson makes his always informed comment about this characteristic in respect of the 1954 Dennis Lance K4s of Aldershot & District, the first 20 of which carried sturdy East Lancs bodies, but the final 12 had Weymann Orion ‘tin cans'(though these were better finished than the norm). Dennis had to reset the springing to improve the ride. I doubt that many operators went to that trouble.
Roger Cox
30/10/14 – 07:12
David, if you look at the comments on Sheffield Leyland PD2 fleet number 391 on these pages you will find references to cranked seats and Leeds 700.
Ian Wild
30/10/14 – 07:12
MCW body with Roe staircase, by the look of it.
Ian T
31/10/14 – 16:27
David 700 was a one off AEC Regent II exhibited at the 1950 Earls Court Show. As Ian mentions its seats were an effort to give greater comfort to the traveling public it remained unique in the Leeds fleet.
Chris Hough
18/01/18 – 09:05
Lovely trip down memory lane on an LCT bus. In the 60’s I was a school kid living in Halton. The trudge up Halton Hill was always a struggle, especially if the bus was full when it became a first gear thrash that used to take forever. Would these double-deckers with rear landings have been Leyland Titans and AEC Regents?
Liverpool City Transport 1950 AEC Regent III Weymann H??R
This bus is pre 1951 because all buses in the Liverpool fleet after that date were 8ft wide and had two side by side destination boards with route numbers above a quick link here to view an example. The bodies were supplied from Weymann as frame only they were then finished by Liverpool Corporation in their own body shops.
When new, this bus DID have 2 cream bands, one below the upper windows and the other above the lower windows – most were repainted in the early 60s as above.
Anonymous
I remember these as being quite fast and manoeuvrable, with their pre-selector gearboxes and distinctive sound. Two particular memories – one, hearing and seeing them thundering along the Strand and Goree on the heavily trafficked 1 route between Dingle and Seaforth (the bus route which effectively replaced the overhead railway) and two, being upstairs on the peak workings of the 71 between Penny Lane and I think South Castle Street, upper deck thick with tobacco fug and not a seat to spare. On full return journeys buses were able to avoid the congested city centre and skirt up the hill past the cathedral non-stop,
Anonymous
04/05/12 – 08:52
I remember driving one on a road that was VERY BENDY and went through Woolton Golf course and it was far easier than the usual AEC MK Vs we usually used. It took the bend’s beautifully.
Dave
10/10/13 – 15:51
I worked at Walton garage as a conductor and driver and I have fond memories of the number 1 route Seaforth to Dingle with a full bus of Dockers on board going to work at various docks along the Liverpool waterfront
Billy
17/04/15 – 07:04
One thing I never could understand was how the pre-selector gearbox worked…can anyone post a simple, not too technical explanation?
Not many folk realise that something that many of were familiar with, when we were young, was an epicyclic gearbox; namely the Sturmey-Archer bicycle rear wheel hub, a compact gem of genius, IMHO.
Chris Hebbron
19/04/15 – 07:31
One thing that needs to be added to the article in Peter’s link is that on postwar AECs the change speed pedal operated by compressed air rather than a spring.
Peter Williamson
19/04/15 – 11:52
Guy also offered the Arab III with an air operated preselector gearbox.
Roger Cox
20/04/15 – 07:13
As usual I’m late to the party, but I thought I might as well jump on the (pre-selector) bus anyway. In previous threads contributors have written about the Daimler quadrant pre-selector selector. I’ve been puzzled as to how that worked, as opposed to a conventional selector gate, but never thought to ask . . . anybody out there care to enlighten me? Sturmey-Archer gears = Raleigh Chopper! Pennant on the back? Tassels from the handlebars?? Playing card clothes-pegged to the rear fork to give that “motorcycle” sound??? Not me! – too sophisticated (me, not the Chopper kids) – 15sp Derailleur for me (even if I only ever used about five). But I remember the arguments in the playground as to whether one should pedal/stop pedalling/back-pedal when changing Sturmey-Archers . . . did it matter?
Philip Rushworth
21/04/15 – 06:27
To the best of my memory, the quadrant went RN1234, from nearest the driver outwards. At least LT’s CWA/CWD’s did.
Chris Hebbron
21/04/2015 06:28:26
Philip, the quadrant selector simply moved in a continuous arc as may be seen in this picture:- www.flickr.com/photos/superkevs/ One had to be careful to set the lever accurately in preselecting the next gear, or the pedal would spring back with some vehemence. The gate type selector used by AEC on the Regent III was much more positive. Earlier AEC and some Guy preselectors used a selector that looked like a conventional gear lever. Take a look at this page:- www.flickr.com/photos/preselector Sturmey Archer bicycle gears – yes, you should stop pedalling when changing gear. The engagement of each epicycle gear is made by means of a rod (equivalent to the band brake on a bus gearbox) that locks each gear through the spindle. Keep pedalling, and you will chew it up and burr the matching gear internals to bits.
Roger Cox
21/04/15 – 09:44
Did the position of the Daimler gear-change vary even on the same model? My memory of the Portsmouth Daimler CWA6’s was of the gear select on the left side. The first link supplied by Roger shows it at the right side. As delivered, both the Portsmouth ones, and the Douglas one in the link would have been “identical”, of the CWA6 variant, and with Duple bodies. (The Portsmouth ones were rebodied in 1955 by Crossley, and appear elsewhere on this site). Perhaps my memory is incorrect, any comments welcome.
Michael Hampton
22/04/15 – 07:30
Roger, thanks for the informative post – exploring the links has filled up time why my class completed a mock examination.
Philip Rushworth
22/04/15 – 07:30
On Portsmouth’s rebuilt-bodied CWA6’s, the quadrant was definitely on the R/H side, Michael H. Never looked inside the cab of them in their original form.
Chris Hebbron
22/04/15 – 07:31
Wonderful picture Roger, (& Kev) of the cab of a Daimler CV/CW! I don’t think the CV was any less primitive. Would suit someone with strong arms and small feet. Good through-flow ventilation, too. Daimler (and others) never felt the need to promote their vehicles once sold- the fluted (often painted) radiator and a couple of D bosses on the front wheels (possibly?) were the only indicators. Leyland seemed to encourage you to put your own badge on the radiator, too. That all changed with the bustle buses with huge flutes, Atlas et al, although Leyland had rarely anything to put on the front of an Atlantean, unlike the St Helens front. Enough rambling: I think the quadrant was on the right on a CV?
Joe
23/04/15 – 07:02
Thanks Chris H for confirming the quadrant position. Clearly my memory is playing tricks! I only remember these in their rebodied form, even though I lived in the area when they were in original condition.
Michael Hampton
23/04/15 – 07:03
Manchester’s and Derby’s CAVs were certainly on the right Hand side. I have never driven nor seen one with it on the left. Because the settings used to wear, the gear was never where the mark was on the quadrant, so Drivers used to put pencil marks on it. There were that many marks on them, you still never knew where it was. You then used to put your own Mark on adding to the confusion. I loved driving pre-select buses, they also made you read the road, having the correct gear selected was important to keep up steady and speedy progress. BUT watch out for the pedal kicking back, it did hurt, OUCH.
Stephen Howarth
23/04/15 – 08:32
Roger wrote :- “One had to be careful to set the lever accurately in preselecting the next gear, or the pedal would spring back with some vehemence.” Roger, that’s definitely the finest and most eloquent description of the dangerous fault exhibited by the spring operated gearboxes that I’ve ever heard. the problem was, of course, even worse as not only did the pedal spring back with the vehemence mentioned but also came considerably further out than was the norm, which is how the pain and often injury occurred. Incidentally it was also necessary to raise a button to allow the quadrant lever to travel beyond neutral to select reverse. A further pitfall for fresh or inattentive drivers was to set off with gusto in first gear and to fail to preselect second gear – then a little later when correctly allowing the engine revs to die down before letting the pedal out you were likely to find the passengers and conductor trying to join you in the cab – the violent braking effect thus achieved would have given a very favourable reading on the Tapley Meter brake tests !!
Chris Youhill
24/04/15 – 06:25
Chris Y, we have obviously both suffered the less than tender mercies of the spring operated preselector when not treated precisely in accordance with ‘the book’. One could always pick out the casualties by their progress round the depot in their accurate impressions of Laurence Olivier in the role of Richard III. The pedal would come back twice as far as normal with the force of all the springs in the box (or so it seemed) generally thrusting one’s left knee into violent contact with the steering column. I wonder how modern companies would get on with such a gearbox in this age of compensation culture and ambulance chasing litigators. Your vivid description of the outcome of a lapse of memory in not preselecting the next upward gear is something that I must put my hand up to having enacted occasionally. The ensuing ‘g’ forces restored one’s concentration at lightening speed, so that one shoved and held the gear pedal down instantly. Ah, happy, joyous days. The modern crop of bus steering wheel attendants don’t know what a gearbox is.
Roger Cox
24/04/15 – 06:26
You have conjured up a wonderful image of said passengers and conductor crammed into the cab with the driver Chris! Very descriptive, and it made me chuckle. I’m sure I read somewhere in the distant past, that the height of the gearchange pedal on some buses with spring-operated preselector gearboxes varied, dependent on which gear the vehicle was in. Is this correct, or is it, to quote Hylda Baker “a figleaf of my imagination?”
Brendan Smith
24/04/15 – 08:47
Brendan Smith you are correct in thinking that the ‘Change speed pedal’ (sometimes referred to as ‘The Tripper pedal’), was at different heights depending on which gear it was in. Lowest being neutral, and highest being top, in normal driving. Not only was your knee jammed under the steering wheel but your heel was stuck under the seat frame. This along with your foot held on the pedal, made it virtually impossible to apply any pressure to push the pedal down against the 5 springs. Hence the need of outside assistance in returning it to the normal settings. At Derby we had a Driver called ‘Tripper Wood’ so named because he had been kicked by the pedal so many times, he used to slide his foot off quickly to avoid such occurrences. He gave a very rough ride, but had a regular mate, who, I guess was used to his driving style.
Stephen Howarth
25/04/15 – 09:23
There was just one ray of hope in the spring operated “kick back” scandal. If you were lucky enough to survive without injury to the ankle, and your foot was not trapped, it was usually possible to apply both feet to the extended pedal while heaving the shoulders against the cab rear window area – first of course making sure to positively select neutral. This usually worked, although Goodness knows what the passengers must have thought to the performance !!
Chris Youhill
26/04/15 – 07:48
For completeness I should add that later CVGs had a gear selector gate on the left, very similar to the one on the Regent III. Later still, when air brakes were offered, the gearbox could be either Daimatic (like the Fleetline) or air-operated preselect like the Regent III. But the spring-operated type continued to the end on vacuum-braked chassis.
Peter Williamson
28/04/15 – 06:59
Thanks for confirmation of the gearchange pedal positioning Stephen, and your reference to “tripper pedal” which I have not heard before, but is a very descriptive phrase. I had read that drivers’ knees were prone to a severe blow if the pedal kicked back, and Roger and Chris Y have also mentioned this, but how many of us realised that a driver could end up trapped with his knee under the steering wheel and heel under the seat frame? It sounds absolutely scandalous that such events could be deemed acceptable by manufacturers and operators alike, and must have led to severe bruising, and in extreme cases to fractures and torn ligaments/tendons, which are no laughing matter. On a lighter note however, Roger’s comment about injured drivers doing impressions of Richard III raised a chuckle. Presumably they would have preferred the RT’s air-operated system, but its only a hunch…..
Brendan Smith
23/01/17 – 07:33
As a child I recognised these AEC Regents which dominated route 1 from 1957 to 1967. Route 1 was the last route to employ 7ft 6 ins wide buses full time. The 1 allocation was drawn from the ranks of 9.6 litre preselector buses A325-349, later A525 etc, and A657-756. When route 1 started the roads in the south docks were unsuitable for buses and it was not until autumn 1958 that the council paved the Dingle area roads. The route north of the Pier Head had similar problems but a parallel route was adopted for the 1 which was not too far from the docks.Buses replacing the Overhead Railway had three problems, paving being one but the others were the need for the buses to climb Dingle Mount whereas the LOR burrowed through the cliffs, which meant the powerful 9612Es were essential for the task. The other obstacle was Stanley Dock Bridge which, 7′ 6″ wide buses could pass each other but not wider buses. This was not resolved till the 1990s and so when the narrower buses were withdrawn during 1967/68 buses had to take turns to cross the bridge. The 1 route, under Merseyside PTE a shadow of its former self as a frequent route vanished on deregulation in 1986. Some extracts of this sourced from Liverpool Transport Vol. 4 1939-57 by Messrs Horne & Maund.
Bradford Corporation Transport 1950 AEC Regent III 9612E Weymann H30/26R
This photo was taken just up the road from the Alhambra Theatre passing the entrance of the old bus station. This 1950 Regent III is on route to Queensbury and believe you me it is uphill all the way. There is a good saying referring to Queensbury which is just under 1000 feet above sea level it goes like this “Queensbury has 3 months of winter and 9 months of bad weather” not strictly true but its a good Yorkshireism.
Bus tickets issued by this operator can be viewed here.
AEC Regent III 9612E with 8ft wide Weymann Body one of the 1-40 batch 1949/50. FKY 1 to 40. Riding on them almost every day to school these became my favourite buses of all time and I used to know the 18 or so based at Horton Bank Top Shed as old friends. They were a good buy with last ones 7 and 13 going in 1970 and were preferred to the later tin front East Lancs ones 66-105 who’s bodies were not as good. Sadly none were preserved, indeed I don’t think there are any Regent III pre-selectors with the popular 8ft Weymann flared skirt body preserved, anywhere.
Kev
I also loved these buses as I lived in Great Horton from 1954 to 1971 and travelled on these buses nearly every day and I nearly have some 100 pictures of them some of which I took myself at bank top shed in the mid 60’s although not very good and I also have the original front number plate of FKY 17 (maybe the only surviving part of any of these buses) the nearest surviving bus I find to these is Morecambe & Heysham 73 which is under restoration at the Keighley Bus Museum.
Norman Shepherd
I can remember hearing the melodious tones of these vehicles whining their way up Great Horton Road on a Sunday morning when all was quiet and little traffic around. I have the back number plate off FKY 13 and dozens of photographs of them in service. FKY 1 was the first bus I wanted to preserve, but unfortunately this was not to be. Instead I have to endure “Bullnose” HKW 82 (nowhere near as handsome) and RT HLW 159 (not originally a Bradford bus) but that noise still haunts me to this day!!!!!
David Hudson
07/09/11 – 14:59
It’s interesting to observe the trend with these bodies to bring the paint down the front corners of the roofs. Amongst other operators, it was done with the postwar ‘provincial’ London Transport STL’s (and, bizarrely, one prewar RT late in life!)
Chris Hebbron
06/11/11 – 07:14
The paint style used on these vehicles varied over the years. When new the roofs were grey, and this did not come down the corners. They also had thin orange lining under the windows. Later the roofs were blue but they were not painted down the corners initially, this only happening in later years. Also there are variations as to where the cream was on the lower nearside bulkhead.
David Hudson
06/11/11 – 22:00
I recall these buses being used on the joint B.C.T and Yorkshire Woollen District service 4 to Dewsbury.
Philip Carlton
07/11/11 – 07:35
Trolleybuses 752-759 (FKU 752-9) had the same Weymann bodies, apart of course from the lower deck front end. In May 1952, 758 became the first British bus with flashing trafficators; it was the only one of the batch to survive until the end of the system, and is now preserved.
Martin S
07/11/11 – 12:16
752-759 were 5 bay though. 758 is slowly being restored at Sandtoft, under BTA (Bradford Trolleybus Association) ownership. My recollections of the 1-40 batch were that they were absolutely superb buses, and the quietest motorbuses I ever rode on. 1-22 (or 23?) were shedded at Banktop depot when new, as tram replacements, and were the most immaculate buses in the fleet for many years.
John Whitaker
29/01/13 – 15:33
I went to Bradford often as it was my favourite trolleybus system. The first visit was Saturday August 5th 1967 on a Dennis Loline from Manchester on the X12. Strange to recall that same vehicle 906 has been modelled by EFE on the X12! The trolleybus on that day were wonderful to see and ride on. However I also became aware of two other interesting observations. Firstly the constant drone of Bristol engined West Yorkshire Lodekkas slogging up Manchester Road to turn into the bus station and secondly the melodic sounds of Regent V buses echoing across the hills around the city centre. I always liked these buses despite being trolley replacements at various times. Used them on the joint service to Leeds the 72. The last time I rode on one was on one of the Christmas day services run from Keighley and I have a lovely video recording of 220 going to Dick Hudsons on another occasion.
Ralph Oakes-Garnett
15/11/19 – 07:26
Looks very similar to Burys pair, BEN 176/7, which became Selnec 6376/7. These were two of my favourite buses and one is preserved, 177.
David Pomfret
16/11/19 – 06:22
Re FKY 24 I have in my possession a roundel from an AEC wheel. Endorsed on the back ‘From the hub of FKY24 – B.C.P.T. Ticker’. I guess Ticker worked at the Bingley breakers yard. For full story and 2 pictures go to “Flea Market Find” .
Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport 1953 AEC Regent III Weymann “AuroRa” H32/26R
Regent III I hear you shout, yes I thought it was a Daimler as well, until Paul Morfitt a K.H.C.T. expert pointed it out to me. K.H.C.T. bought 6 of these Regent IIIs with the Birmingham style tin front, they were apparently the last front engine/open platform buses bought brand new by them. Fleet number 337 is now fully preserved and should be out on the rally circuit next summer (2010) so keep your eye out for it. There is also a restored Bradford City Transport Regent III with a similar tin front it can be seen here.
04/04/13 – 06:28
The Weymann Aurora body is something of an enigma. The first one – also co-incidentally on an AEC Regent III with tin front – was built for Devon General and exhibited on the MCW stand at Earls Court in 1952 alongside the prototype Orion. An MCW sales brochure was produced, which was still being distributed two years later, but no more bodies of that type were ever built. In the meantime Weymann had been building this much more elegant design, which most people agree bears no resemblance to the prototype described in the brochure, and which could instead be traced back much more clearly to earlier Weymann bodies. It is almost as though Weymann simply thumbed its nose at the MCW design team and just carried on with their own design evolution as if nothing had happened. To confuse matters still further, a brief article in a recent edition of Classic Bus magazine, describing the prototype (which is now preserved) as unique, it was answered by not one but two letters referring to production Auroras as “virtually identical” to the prototype – one of them referring to these Hull vehicles and the other I think to some Bristols for Maidstone and District. It seems that resemblance, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder!
Peter Williamson
04/04/13 – 08:29
The Aurora is certainly an enigma – and a trap for those who only know half the story. I too have been puzzled by the lack of similarity between to prototype and production versions but the Weymann Story (in two volumes Senior/Venture) is very clear. The Aurora name was used for these modernised versions of the classic Weymann design (produced from 1953 to 1959). The MCCW Orion design was produced at Addlestone from about 1953 (the first being re-bodies of war time Guys for Maidstone & District). Interestingly, Addlestone were also building Aurora bodies on war time Bristols for M & D. What most people didn’t realise – me included – is that the Aurora name was then resurrected as the official and proper name for the forward entrance version on the Orion.
David Oldfield
04/04/13 – 11:03
Just remembered the Bournemouth trolleys which had the Aurora as late as 1962.
David Oldfield
04/04/13 – 11:04
Here is a photo of the preserved one-off 1952 Aurora, Devon General NTT 679, taken at the Devon General Running Day at Newton Abbott in 1993.
John Stringer
04/04/13 – 15:49
The main difference between the prototype Aurora and the production model seems to be the move from pan window fixing to rubber mounting.
Here is an example of the production version as supplied to Birkenhead Corporation in 1954. Apart from being on an exposed radiator chassis, it differs from the Hull version in having a 5-bay body. The traditional Weymann drooping saloon window is much in evidence. Birkenhead dabbled with Weymann as a body supplier. The batch of 10 Auroras was not the whole of the CBG intake, the remaining 5 of the batch having locally-built Ashcroft bodies. The 1955 intake of 17 vehicles (10 PD2 and 7 Arab IV) saw half the PD2s bodied with the Orion style, and finally in 1964 came the one-off batch of 10 Fleetlines, again with Orion style, one of which appears on the left of the picture. (Originally delivered with the cream relief as window surrounds only, the appearance of the Fleetlines was much improved with the application of the standard livery on repaint, as seen here.)
Alan Murray-Rust
05/04/13 – 05:51
To me there are more differences than similarities. On the prototype, the dimensions of the windows – deep lower, shallow upper – are more like a production Orion than any other Aurora (and the deep lower deck windows were made much of in the sales brochure). On the production version, as Alan says, the traditional Weymann drooping bulkhead window is much in evidence, whereas on the prototype the top rail is straight and only the bottom curved, again just like most highbridge Weymann Orions. In fact the only similarities I can find (using other images) are in the front and rear domes and the rear emergency window.
Peter Williamson
23/04/13 – 07:50
My favourite bus, thin steering wheel and a smooth seat which you could slide off on exit from a roundabout and if it was a hot day and your cab door was open it could be interesting. A lot of drivers didn’t like them because you couldn’t see the pavement from the cab. I thought they were great, the exhaust would roar when you put your foot down.
box501
03/06/14 – 12:52
The Daimler and Guy Utilities of Maidstone and District were rebodied with a later form of five bay Weymann body derived from the pre and early post war design but with deeper windows upstairs. Only some Utility Bristol K6As had four bay ‘Aurora’ or five bay ‘Orion’ bodies. The only Orion bodied Guys which Maidstone and District had, were the Guy Arab IVs acquired or ordered by Chatham and District which were based on new post war chasses.
Sheffield Corporation 1954 AEC Regent III Weymann H32/26R
I must admit that I have come up with the above information on a bit of a wing and a prayer after searching Google and my regular informative web sites I think I am right. But if I am wrong I will not be upset if you correct me, please leave a comment. I am not sure about a white livery for buses especially in large towns they have a tendency to look a bit dirty “all the time”.
Part of the batch of 36, these were the last exposed radiator buses for Sheffield Corporation and JOC. There were preceded, in 1953/54, by over 50 Leyland PD2s, with near identical bodies, which were the first of hundreds of tram-replacement buses.
Midland General Omnibus Company 1948 AEC Regent III Weymann H30/26R
From what I can make out there was the Midland General Group which included Midland General obviously, Mansfield & District and Notts & Derby. One thing I find strange is that they purchased Bristol manufactured buses I thought that after 1948 only nationalised bus operators could do that. Although one thing I found out was that the general manager of the Midland General Group was also the general manager of the Lincolnshire Road Car Company which was a nationalised operator. One interesting point is that Midland General had their initials in place of the AEC badge on the radiator as can be seen in the blow up below.
This is Mount Street bus station, Nottingham. This is a pre-selector, and as I remember, it was quite unusual for them to be used on the C5 (and B3) Alfreton routes – more usually the crash gearbox Regent IIs. Even up to the late 1960s when the main service was run by Lodekkas, Underwood depot used to turn out two or three Regent IIs on Saturday mornings when the service frequency was doubled. The transmission sound of a crash gearbox Regent II was sheer music. With regard to MGO’s purchase of Bristols, as I understand it the company was part of the Balfour Beatty Group. However, anticipating wholesale bus nationalisation (which didn’t actually materialise), they sold out voluntarily to the British Transport Commission. Their first foray into the Bristol marque was a series of (I think) 15 KSW6G’s in 1952. (They also tried out the prototype Lodekka – a strange and ugly contraption with a very wide exposed radiator.)
Stephen Ford
Strictly speaking, Balfour Beatty were nationalised because they were an electricity generator (for their Notts and Derby’s trolleybuses). They were handed over to THC/Tilling as a result of this. They would happily have continued with AEC/Weymann otherwise.
David Oldfield
(They also tried out the prototype Lodekka – a strange and ugly contraption with a very wide exposed radiator.) I had to have a wry smile at the above comment, which is admittedly basically true I suppose. What many don’t realise though is that it didn’t have the equally revolutionary “Lodekka” body, but rather a modified version of the standard postwar product – recognition of this feature perhaps being eclipsed by the dramatic radiator and bonnet etc. Eventually joining West Yorkshire Road Car Co. Ltd as 822, it was renumbered with the rest of the fleet and ended its days as DX1. Ugly duckling it may have been, but it was the first practical model to abolish the awkward offside upper saloon gangway and poor headroom, and the notorious nearside leaning and rolling on cambers.
Chris Youhill
The KSW’s mentioned were delivered to Notts & Derby as replacements for the BUT trolleybuses which came off service during 1953. The prototype Lodekka was never owned by the company but spent a while with them on a trial basis however this did start a long relationship with Bristol/ECW right through to the demise (almost) of the MGO group in the 1970’s. Indeed the very last Lodekka (YNU 351G) became part of the fleet in the Autumn of 1968 and after continued service with Trent passed directly into preservation in 1980 where it still is – I was one of the original owners.
Paul D Chambers
23/03/11 – 06:50
The Barton’s low bridge decker looks like one of there NCME Regent V with the wrap around front windows a very smart looking design.
Roger Broughton
23/03/11 – 20:03
I remember these Regents with great affection and I was privileged to travel on them as a young lad! There were three batches, the MRB’s as shown were delivered new to Midland General, then the JVO’s, some of which were transferred from Mansfield District to Notts & Derby as trolleybus replacements and of course the last, the ONU’s which were lowbridge. It’s always slightly annoyed me when these ones are referred to as RLH type Regents, I’ve always felt that London Transport’s RLH’s should be described as ‘Midland General type Regents!’ The most memorable thing about all of them was the astonishing condition in which they were maintained, some of them achieved almost twenty years service and they were always turned out in pristine condition right till the end. In their later years, there was a concentration of them at Ilkeston garage, for use on the frequent town services which involved a stiff climb up the main street with many stops and high loadings, a task which they performed with consummate ease, much better than a lumbering Lodekka! In fact, I think it wasn’t until the arrival of the semi-automatic FLF6LX Bristols that the management of MGO thought they had anything capable of replacing them.
Chris Barker
24/03/11 – 06:37
You are right about the RLHs Chris (which of course were actually diverted from MGO). Similarly, the Regent IIs which tend to get called STLs. Goodness – LT only had 20 of them. Plenty more went elsewhere, and they were about as different from proper STLs as chalk from cheese! As for the Ilkeston town services (A2 and A3) I seem to remember some of the N&DT KSW6Gs being used, in the early 60s, when they had been displaced by Lodekkas from the Nottingham – Ripley B1. I guess it was the pre-selector gearbox on the Regents that made them favourites with Bath Street hill to contend with in one direction and Nottingham Road in the other.
Stephen Ford
21/01/14 – 06:54
I hope I’m correct in this statement but Bristol double deckers where not in service at the Midland General until after 1957 to 1958…. I used to work at Underwood garage 1973 to 76, and used to drive the old deckers both with Gardner engines and also with Bristol engines, these where brutes to the brain, left arm and the hearing at times when missing a gear the right leg also suffered due to the throttle being connected direct to the governor in the fuel pump.
Murray Bacon
21/01/14 – 09:09
The LW and early LX series of Gardner engines had ‘all speed’ governors which worked by setting the maximum engine speed at a level determined by the accelerator position. Pressing the throttle pedal to increase the revs acted against the resistance of the governor setting, and resulted in a heavy pedal action. When changing gear upwards with a conventional clutch/gearbox transmission, it paid to blip the engine slightly to take the load off the governor once the gear had engaged before releasing the clutch again to take up power. This obviated the tendency to jerk when the throttle pedal gave way suddenly under foot pressure.
Roger Cox
22/01/14 – 06:37
Murray, you may be right so far as Underwood was concerned, but I think Langley Mill had Bristol Lodekkas earlier than 1957. I’m almost certain they were running on the Hucknall – Alfreton C9 by 1956 at the latest. And of course there were the 15 earlier Bristol KSWs, that were actually Notts & Derby rather than MGO, which came in 1953.
Stephen Ford
22/01/14 – 14:06
Midland General’s first Lodekkas were actually delivered in 1954. One early use of them was on service 44, Derby – Chesterfield which had been instituted in that year and was regarded as a ‘flagship’ route so Alfreton garage may have had some of the first LD’s.
Chris Barker
22/01/14 – 17:56
For reference, the first Lodekka prototype LHY 949 is here www.sct61.org.uk/
John Darwent
25/01/14 – 08:12
Thanks for the link to the photos of prototype Lodekka LHY 949 John. Stephen’s earlier comments about the Lodekka prototype being a “strange and ugly contraption with a very wide exposed radiator” are, as Chris Y notes, basically true. However, if one looks at the ECW bodywork fitted to both prototypes, even though they were of differing styles, they were still quite attractive – as long as you didn’t stray around to the front end (Oooof!). It is well documented that the pair of Lodekka prototypes used some parts from the two prototype M-type chassis exhibited at the 1948 Commercial Motor Show. Intended as a beefed-up K-type with export markets in mind, the M-type was to have been available in double-deck (MD) or single deck (MS) form, and with either a Bristol AVW or Gardner LW engine, but it never went into production. Externally the main parts transferred over to the prototype Lodekkas appear to have been the wide radiators, chrome bumpers, bonnet assemblies, front mudguards and headlamps. The wide radiator did neither of the Lodekkas any favours, and the kindest comment I have read to date called it “ungainly”. Considering the overall attractiveness of the bodywork, the ‘set back’ look of the cab in relation to the radiator, mudguards and bumper simply jars. Most un-Bristol/ECW-like. Going back to Midland General Stephen, the prototype Lodekka demonstrated to the Company, plus Mansfield District and Notts & Derby, was West Yorkshire’s 822 (JWT 712).
Sheffield Corporation 1956 AEC Regent III Weymann Orion L27/28R
Now I know what your thinking you think I have got this completely wrong, this is surely a Regent V you say. No it is definitely a Regent III there was a small number of late Regent IIIs that were built with the wide bonnet front more associated with the Regent V and this is one of them. I also have a shot of another Sheffield Corporation Regent that could be a bit dubious, registration WWB 542 fleet no 742, it is different to above in that it has an odd shaped window on the staircase and no air vent at the front of the roof, I would guess at Roe bodywork myself. I think that it also maybe a Regent III as that registration dates from 1955/6 and I can find no details of it in the Regent V lists on the excellent Bus Lists on the Web website. If you know please leave a comment.
742 was VWJ 542 Regent III 9613S with Roe H33/25R body, new in 1956.
David Harrison
After over 150 exposed radiator Regent IIIs, Sheffield had 41 Roe and 36 Weymann H58R and 9 Weymann L55R Regent IIIs with manual boxes and the new “Regent V” front. This was in 1955/6 and they followed immediately by 40 genuine Regent Vs with Weymann H58R bodies identical to the earlier Weymann/Regent IIIs. The latter arrived in 1957.
David Oldfield
04/05/11 – 07:06
These were the only lowbridge double deckers in the Sheffield fleet post war (and for some considerable time pre war). See Keith Beeden’s comments re Sheffield 1265 for the reason behind this unusual purchase. Four buses (1284-7) survived the rest of the batch by up to four years and made themselves unpopular turning up on a variety of (non lowbridge) services not least being regular performers on the 50 to the posh village of Dore, on the edge of the Peak District. 1284 is pictured in Pond Street Bus Station for a duplicate on the normally single deck service 99 to Chesterfield via the village of Ford which required single deck buses beyond that point.
Ian Wild
05/05/11 – 07:00
It’s amazing how such a fine builder as Weymann could make the Orion look so fine – as it did for almost all Sheffield’s high-bridge variants – but managed to make such a dog’s breakfast of the low-bridges. They had several attempts and failed – the North Western PD2s neither being the same as 1283-91 nor as neighbouring East Midland examples. It’s also true that high-bridge Leylands were generally not so handsome as those on almost any other chassis because of the narrow front profile. I read that, when Leyland closed down the body shop in 1954 that there was a tacet agreement that Leyland body customers would be edged in the direction of MCW (ie MCCW AND Weymann) and this obviously manifested itself in the carry-over from Leyland of a standard 7’6″ front, even on 8’0″ wide bodies (but with the tapering effect). Bizarrely, the best looking and most balanced “low” Orions were on East Midland and Yorkshire Woolen’s Albion Lowlanders – where Alexander made a pig’s ear of it! “First” are still managing to put old rubbish on the (now) 30 to Dore. Is it giving the finger to the unworthy rich – or missing a trick in encouraging onto public transport?
David Oldfield
03/02/12 – 15:27
During the school holidays we use to travel on these buses to the mining area pits (my Mum also worked full time so holidays were spent on whatever route my dad was driving. My Auntie was the conductress).I remember there being 4 bench seats in a row to the nearside & access was lower to the seat height. Cannot remember what happened over the drivers cab, but those front seats must also have been higher than the access route.Downstairs offside was the lowered access route with notices for passengers to “watch your heads” My Dad used to say you can buy the best quality towels from the pit shop at really cheap prices. I think it may have been Orgreave pit. We also used to go on Regents single deckers with the doors & access stairs to the doors & these were the first buses we saw that had a round, chrome heater behind the bulkhead to keep you warm, which we appreciated at 5.30am on cold mornings.
Andy Fisher
28/12/17 – 15:46
Dear David Following your conversation with the Regent III, I am requiring some advice on the Model of my RLH from the Samuel Buses and I am hoping to try and find out if the Regent III types above was the similar bus and I am hoping to change the lower deck to the Regent V front and I am requesting some tips on how to get the job done and what bus to use either the Corgi or the Orion Regent but I do have a quite a few of the buses in the fleet and then I am hoping to do the low height of the bus.
Christopher Norris
29/12/17 – 10:48
It would be good to have a pic of Doncaster CT’s 122 on this site. It was an AEC Regent 3 with a number of interesting features including a stepped boarding platform, those early 50’s deep Roe windows and cranked seating. It also had a Potts Patent air system and I have no idea what that is? 122 has a political history, sold early on with its CVD6 sister to local operators (of which Doncaster had many) on the pretext of being too wide at 8ft to fit the town’s streets (which?), but actually, it seems, not the streets but the DCT bus washer. It is still around in preservation, having been beautifully restored back to DCT glory by the late Tony Peart.
Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport 1947 AEC Regent III 0961/2 Weymann H32/26R
This is quite a nice shot of an AEC Regent III just departing Hull bus station on route 50, although only the locals would know were route 50 went as there is nothing on display for its final destination. This I think would of been rather an annoying system if you were a visitor to the area as the only thing you could be sure of is that if you wanted to go to the “Market Place” you were safe on this bus because that is where it is going via. I think this practice was more prevalent for some operators of mainly town services, operators of longer distance services usually had larger destination blinds showing places they went via. If you know of any operators who had strange practices regarding destination information please leave a comment.
Yet another cracking photo! Service 50 went to the pier via the old town were it connected with the Humber Ferry service which ran across to New Holland on the south bank. The service ran until July 1981 when the Humber Bridge was opened.
Paul Morfitt
Doncaster Corporation were even better on destinations: no route numbers and the blind often just showed the final destination with a single via if needed to distinguish different routes there: in at least one case (Skellow via Owston Park), the bus didn’t really go to Skellow, but stopped short at Owston Park: the via was patched out much later. Well… if you didn’t know where the bus was going, everyone would tell you!
Joe
The blind showing, Market Place, was what was known as a “via” blind showing one major part of the route, as there was only space for one line of text, this type of blind appeared during the war, as the larger figures on the blinds were the primary means of identifying the route. All native “Hullensians” knew which route they required by the number. These blinds also appeared until the advent of the “G” registered series of Atlanteans, when a true destination blind appeared.
Keith Easton
Interesting, Keith. I wonder if this was part of the wartime initiative to confuse enemy infiltrators – especially relevant in east coast ports. As you will know signposts and railway station nameboards were removed for this reason.
Stephen Ford
Yes, Stephen, I’m sure that there was an element of what you said, but the main reason for using large numerals was more mundane. As you may be aware, during the wartime blackout conditions, bus operators were required to reduce the brilliance of external displays, consequently the size of the numerals was increased in order to improve visibility at night from a distance. For the same reason trolleybus blinds, which were in black on white, were replaced by black blinds with white numerals.
Keith Easton
03/02/11 – 17:11
On the subject of uninformative destinations Eastern Counties with their use of the word Service as a destination took some beating just as useless was the use of the company title as a destination also a popular ECOC wheeze! Of course the SBG were a breed apart with their extensive use of paper stickers and nothing but a number displayed on the destination screen!
Chris Hough
03/02/11 – 20:04
Lincolnshire Road Car and Western/Southern National were also adept in later years at wasting the “via” screen on the company name or “Service No.”
Stephen Ford
04/01/18 – 06:51
Another quirk of the situation in Hull was that at the time Hull Corporation showed only a route number and ‘via’ blind, the local country operator, East Yorkshire, showed a destination and (usually) ‘via’, but no route number! So Hull folk had to be adaptable, especially if they lived on one of the several routes that were shared between the two operators.
George R
06/01/18 – 06:56
Until about 1936, Portsmouth Corporation had only a small number box and destination box. After this, a larger via box/ route indicator, plus destination box appeared on the vehicles. Sadly, the destination box displayed PORTSMOUTH CORPORATION and the destination was relegated to the via box with all the places the same size letters. Postwar, the destination box actually showed the destination! Let’s remember, too, that both route letters and numbers were used, but these changed according to the direction. 17/18 or A/B, the latter very unhelpful to holidaymakers at a seaside resort!
Photograph by “unknown” – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Bradford Corporation Transport 1950 AEC Regent III 9612E Weymann H30/26R
This was the last of a batch of forty AEC Regent IIIs with what Kev from Bradford calls the 8ft wide Weymann flared skirt body you can see why. I’m afraid it is looking a little tired in this shot taken about 1964 outside one of Bradfords bus depots. Four years latter this vehicle went to scrap, one year after that fleet number 33 was the last one of the batch of forty to go the same way. In 1957 the seating capacity of the upper deck was increased by 3 to 33, a 10% increase, 2 extra seats I can understand easier than 3, unless the original rear seat was only for 2, if anyone has any clues on this please leave a comment.
Bus tickets issued by this operator can be viewed here.
Your assumption about the rear upper seat is correct. All post-war Bradford buses prior to the HKW batch originally had 30 upstair-seats (15 x 2). Most (possibly all, apart from the ex-London RTs, in which there was no room for this) had in due course an additional 3-seat unit added to the nearside rear.
Julien Melville
The location appears to be the old Thornbury works yard which was attached to the operating depot. It was a common sight to see de-licensed trolleys and buses parked here in less than sparkling condition often with smashed windows etc. The whole complex at Thornbury still exists as a warehouse facility. Until the end of its life under the PTE the sign over the works entrance read car works!
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Morecambe & Heysham Corporation 1951 AEC Regent III Weymann H33/26R
This shot of a Morecambe & Heysham Regent III shows the older livery of green with three narrow cream bands, the newer livery which had an overall cream roof and a wider centre band can be seen here. This shot shows off very well the half drop windows which I should imagine were just the thing on a hot summers day whilst tootling up Morecambe promenade. Morecambe Corporation buses did not have route numbers just the destination and this bus is destined for ‘Battery which is more or less the centre point of the Morecambe promenade between Heysham harbour to the south and Morecambe golf club to the north. When I say Battery “is” I may mean “was”, when I researched this posting “Battery” the place appears on Google maps along with the a little bed denoting “The Battery Hotel” I am presuming that “The Battery” was an old military building. But on Google earth there is no mention of “Battery” and all I can see is a car park I presume it is the map that is out of date. Does the place “Battery” still exist or is it now just a car park if you know please leave a comment.
The Battery was a large public house situated very close to the Heysham Road Depot. Buses running to the Battery would normally have started the journey at Happy Mount Park.
Terry Malloy
The Battery Hotel still exists. The Battery referred to on Morecambe buses was actually a bus park across the road from the pub it was also adjacent to the Morecambe depot. A recent visit to Morecambe revealed that the site is now a Drs surgery and retail pharmacy Stagecoach run the local services in the town. In the seventies Morecambe had a municipal depot as well as a Ribble one as did Lancaster. Part of Lancaster’s municipal depot is now converted into upmarket apartments called The Old Bus Depot!
Chris Hough
I believe that before Morecambe was developed as a holiday resort and expanded accordingly there was a firing range on the sands between Morecambe & Heysham with the Battery Hotel taking its name from an artillery battery which had been sited nearby. The bus park across the road took its name from the pub, which still gives its name to a timing point on the local bus network although a medical centre/pharmacy now stands on the site of the Battery Bus Park. The Battery is the boundary point between Morecambe & Heysham which were separate local authorities until 1928 when Heysham Urban District and Morecambe Borough Councils merged, the Morecambe & Heysham Corporation bus depot which was a couple of hundred yards south of The Battery was therefore in Heysham.
Ian Simpson
Morecambe were still running over 20 AEC Regent IIIs when they became part of the enlarged Lancaster fleet. Interestingly Morecambe were the last operator to run petrol engined double deckers they were certainly in use in the fifties. Also some of Morecambe’s pre-war double deckers had retractable canvass roofs for sunny weather a feature I would venture to suggest were unique unless anyone knows different .
Chris Hough
Actually the Battery was a field artillery station, when Morecambe was a training depot for the army in the late 1800s. The Battery hotel is named for this reason.
Andrew Wild
Yes Chris, the pre war Regents had roll back canvass roofs from the 1936 Park Royal batch up to the last pre war deliveries. These were panelled in during WW2. The relevant Park Royal bodies had an almost vertical rear dome to accommodate the roll up. I could never understand, as a youngster, why this was so different to the standard PR rear shape! There were some really unusual sounding destinations too, Bare, Happy Mount Park, Heysham Towers as well as “Battery” spring to mind.
John Whitaker
08/04/11 – 05:00
The canvas roofs were not unique to Morecambe double-deckers – in fact they were a short-lived fashion with coastal operators in the early/mid thirties, when they were of course very common on coaches. Southdown certainly had some Short-bodied TDs of this type, one of which I believe still survives.
David Jones
21/04/11 – 06:18
And not just coastal operators. Cheltenham & District had a couple of them for some inexplicable reason!
Chris Hebbron
21/04/11 – 06:31
Perhaps for the Cheltenham (Gold Cup) Festival?
David Oldfield
29/01/12 – 07:28
As youngster I travelled on these buses regularly in the 1950’s. They were always immaculate and looked very smart in their green livery. During the early 1980’s one restored bus, fleet no.69, LTF 254 ran on the promenade Happy Mount to the Battery service during the summer only. Does anyone know what happened to this bus? 20 JTE 546 and 35 KTF 594 were advertised for sale by Quantock Motor Services in Somerset back in Jan 2011 – where are they now?
James Welsh
29/01/12 – 16:34
Nothing really to do with buses but the mention of Bare reminds me that in the 1950s my grandparents and I always visited Morecambe for the Illuminations. We always came on a Yorkshire Woollen excursion and the coach always stopped for a refreshment stop at Ye Old Naked man at Settle. My Grandfather always cracked the same joke saying that the man lived at Bare. The premises are still at Settle but I don’t think that many coaches stop there these days.
Philip Carlton
17/04/12 – 07:03
At the risk of being accused of wandering ‘off topic’, there were (are they still there?) two establishments in the eastern part of Morecambe called the Bare Tennis Club and the Bare Women’s Institute, causing some merriment to visitors. I attended Morecambe Grammar School’s 6th form in the mid 1960’s, and several of my classmates hailed from the White Rose county. They called Morecambe “British West Bradford”!
Pete Davies
20/04/12 – 18:13
Re the diversion to the Bare district of Morecambe, I once read or heard that Morecambe Corp would run a fast duplicate service to that area, leaving the regular service for more local people. At the starting point, the conductress on the duplicate would apparently call out “Bare people only on this bus”! Whether that’s just someone’s made up story, or actually occurred, I know not.
Michael Hampton
21/04/12 – 08:20
…..but it’s worth the telling anyway. Couldn’t bear to miss it.
David Oldfield
21/04/12 – 08:21
Shades, Michael, of the “Loose Women’s Institute” in Maidstone !!
Chris Youhill
19/06/12 – 08:23
Morecambe’s petrol engined AEC Regents were still running until at least 1965 as open toppers. I worked on them then as a conductor during that summer after leaving school. As they were only 7′ 6″ wide, collecting fares with standing passengers was a nightmare!
David Platt
19/06/12 – 09:16
The pre war Morecambe fleet was a classic collection of thoroughbred AEC Regents, with beautiful Park Royal or Weymann bodies, and they are engraved on my childhood memory. All were new with petrol engines, and the post 1936 Park Royal examples had sliding sun roofs, panelled in during WW2. a few survived as open toppers, as described by David above. There is a fleet list on this site to whet your appetite, which also covers Lancaster Corporation. I just wish that I had taken photographs of these buses, as it was this fleet, during my early childhood, which cemented my interest in buses. I realised at an early age, that buses came in different, but subtle shapes, and that our home fleet in Bradford had some of identical pattern (Weymann). If anyone knows of a photograph source for this pre war fleet, then I would love to know. Another fascination was the haphazard, gap filling fleet numbering system, only just recently unwound in my mind thanks to the fleet list submitted by Dave Towers, for which , many thanks Memories!
John Whitaker
19/06/12 – 11:44
Well John, Sheffield were past masters at haphazard gap filling with the fleet numbers and with routes numbers. Possibly a bit biased, but I always preferred Sheffield to Manchester but I have to say the Manchester numbering system was always far better and more logical – 1000s and 3000s for Leyland, 2000s and 4000s for Daimler and blocks of route numbers for routes leaving the city down a particular common corridor.
David Oldfield
19/06/12 – 16:05
John If you can get hold of the Lancaster 75th anniversary brochure from 1978 you will find several shots of pre-war Morecambe buses including one overturned on the foreshore. The brochure can be obtained via Amazon. There is also a Super Prestige paperback album about Morecambe and Lancaster buses.
Chris Hough
20/06/12 – 08:08
Thanks Chris…I have both those publications, and also the “Morecambe Bay Buses” of c. 1978. The Super Prestige one is well worth having if you are a fan of either Lancaster and/or Morecambe. I just love the pre-war Lancaster “English Electric” flavour too! Bus shapes very similar to the Bradford Regen trolleys I was brought up with!
John Whitaker
21/06/12 – 06:57
Picking up David’s point, Manchester’s fleet numbering system was certainly a model of neatness, but its rationalisation of route numbers into corridor blocks was not without its critics. It has been suggested that it was far easier for passengers to remember the difference between 50, 64 and 161 than between the 41, 44 and 45 that replaced them.
Peter Williamson
10/10/12 – 09:34
Other than for a couple of brief breaks I lived in Morecambe from late 1958 up to 1982 and am therefore able to confirm/correct some of the above. A bus coming along the promenade showing ‘Battery’ may indeed have come from Happy Mount Park, or it may have come from Central Pier. M & H were famous for sending spare crews out doing ‘promenades’, i.e. extras between the Battery and Central Pier – even when there was no earthly need for them! The turning arrangement at Central Pier was to back into a side street (Clarence Street I think it was called) – it would never be tolerated these days. Buses also terminated at the Battery on the so-called ‘Circular’ service, i.e. Heysham Village – Battery – Promenade – Bare (Princes Crescent) – Torrisholme – Euston Road – Battery. After the arrival of the Leyland PD2s in 1960/62, they were the usual performers on the route. I wouldn’t say that the Battery bus parking area was ‘adjacent’ to the depot – the depot being a full bus stop distance away. Don’t remember a firing range on the sands, but had there been one I probably wouldn’t have remembered it anyway. I haven’t previously heard that the boundary between Morecambe and Heysham was at the Battery, or that the bus depot was in Heysham, but I’ve never been too sure where the boundary actually was so I’d better abdicate on this point. I feel sure that the restored Regent III which ran on the promenade in the 1980s could only have been number 20 (JTE 546). Number 69 (KTF 254) was sold to the Mersey & Calder Bus Preservation Group in the late 1970s and is still, I believe, in preservation at present. KTF 594 was fleet number 65 while with M & H. I think that few people who have stopped for a break at Settle and parked in the car/coach park – even bus enthusiasts – will have realised that there is a bus depot located there. It certainly doesn’t stand out. I think, Pete, that you have mentioned elsewhere that you attended Morecambe Grammar School in the 1960s. I did a full seven-year ‘stretch’ (1960-67) and I sincerely hope that your own experience of the place was significantly more positive than my own. This is perhaps a long shot, but did you happen to be a pal of one of the Mollitt twins? I wouldn’t be able to remember which one, but one thing I can remember is that they had forenames with the same initial letter – James and John I think. Never known non-stop extras to Bare, I think that story’s apocryphal. Morecambe’s last two pre-war Regents, 25 and 49, last ran, I think, in the summer of 1966, but they were diesel-engined by that time. I believe the conversion was quite late – possibly c1960 – by which time they were the only survivors. They were converted to open-top in time for the 1962 season, having been made surplus by the arrival of PD2As 90 and 91. When they were converted I believe the original gearboxes were retained, and as a diesel engine is much slower-revving than a petrol this made them hopelessly undergeared. I’ve heard that the drivers called them ‘two-gear’ buses – which would mean either second then top, or perhaps third then top.
David Call
24/06/13 – 11:40
James Welsh (29/01/12) above asks whatever happened to LTF 254. Well it is preserved and was in service at the Ribble event in Morecambe this year – my picture was taken at Heaton Park on 4/9/2011
Ken Jones
24/03/14 – 13:46
Mention of petrol engined open-top Regents running until 1965 was a little off the mark. The last petrols (enclosed deckers) ran after the 1959 season, new Leylands replacing them the following winter. Two petrols had been converted to diesel after the war – these engines subsequently getting switched to ‘newer’ examples, and it was these which became open-topped from 1962 lasting till 1967 by when some Regent IIIs had been cut down. Open top 65 and enclosed 20 were sold by Quantock late in 2011 passing to Ukraine, 65 known to have been put into use at Sevastopol in red as “London Bus Cafe” (what else!).
Richard Allen
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
16/09/16 – 06:17
Last November John Hewitt and Daren Hunt bought MTE 635 from Ken Wade. Hopefully back on the road in 2 years time.
