Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1949 AEC Regal III Roe B32R
A Halifax Regal III bus in coach livery of all over cream with an orange waistband, there was no difference whatsoever that I know of between this Regal and one in the usual green orange and cream except the livery. This shot shows very clearly how this vehicle has been converted for one man operation by the layout of the windows to the left of the drivers cab, I think this conversion would have happened at a later date than the rear to front entrance conversion of 1953/4. You can also see the old style pop-up trafficators, one on the waistband in front of the passenger compartment doors and the other just to the bottom left of the drivers windscreen. I doubt if this vehicle would of been converted to flashing indicators before being withdrawn from service with Halifax in 1963.
Converted at the same time I am told
Christopher
13/03/12 – 06:21
If my memory is still up to scratch, the reversed livery denoted OMO when it was first tried out. Much later, a form of reversed livery was used on DP vehicles and coaches, but by that time OMO was universal on single deckers, which had reverted to normal green and orange.
John (tee)
20/09/12 – 06:55
Is it possible to read the wording underneath the Halifax coat of arms? I think the wording is “Halifax Joint Committee”. The legal lettering would have referred to the owner of the vehicle, either Halifax Corporation or, in those days, the Railway Executive. This was a JOC vehicle and the old joint crest which included reference to the two railway companies was obsolete by 1949.
British Rail ran a staff bus between Sheffield Midland Station and Tinsley Marshalling Yard and at various times used this ex Mansfield District bus (fleet number 15), similar KRR 264 and KRB 88 which was an ex Midland General Leyland PS1 with a similar body. All ran in the colours of their previous owners. Later the work was contracted to Chesterfield Corporation who used one of their fleet of AEC Reliances to cover the duties. One of Sheffield’s 1957 Regent V/Weymann is behind, laying over at the terminus of service 60 to Crimicar Lane. This service had been extended from its former Leopold Street terminus in the City Centre to provide a useful link to the Midland Station. In the background one of the 1960 Alexander bodied Regent V is about to turn left into Pond Street Bus Station.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
11/05/11 – 15:37
Fascinating. Was a regular user of the 60 between Crimicar Lane and Midland Station – especially on the said Regent Vs. Was never aware of – and therefore never saw – the British Rail staff buses of any description. PS1 would have been 1946 onward but Regal III would have been 1947 onward. Other than that, I’m no help at all with the date.
David Oldfield
11/05/11 – 19:32
Not a terribly helpful comment, but I believe C T Humpidge was responsible for the blacking out of the cross pieces on the destination indicators as seen on the AEC Regent V and he took up post following R C Moore’s retirement in May 1961.
John Darwent
12/05/11 – 07:00
Yet another fascinating Sheffield picture. In tram days, there had been additional cars on the Walkley section of the main cross-city route to Intake running between Walkley and the Midland Station, quaintly showing ‘LMS STATION’ on their blinds. When the buses took over from the trams on 8th April, 1956, the new 95 bus service was extended at the Walkley end from the old tram terminus along to Tinker Lane, and additional buses were put on between Elm Tree at the Intake end and Walkley (South Road) where the trams had terminated, but the connection to the Midland Station was severed. To reinstate that link between the railway station and the city centre, and no doubt to the delight of Fulwood passengers who up until this time had managed to get only as far into the city centre as Leopold Street, alternate journeys on the route 60 Fulwood were extended from Barker’s Pool down High Street and Commercial Street to the Midland Station. Imagine getting off your train to be greeted by just such a sight as this one, of a splendidly turned out AEC Regent V waiting on the station forecourt. The heyday of the bus, indeed.
Dave Careless
12/05/11 – 07:03
Ah what beautiful vehicles! There were 25 PS1’s new to Midland General in 1948 and 24 Regal III’s new to Mansfield District in 1949. The bodies were similar but the PS1’s were bodied by Saunders, withdrawal of these started in 1962 and was completed in 1964, Two went to British Rail, KRB 87/88 in 5/64 and 4/63 respectively. About a dozen of the Regals were transferred to Midland General in 1958 and whilst MDT began to withdraw their remaining ones in 1962, MGO kept their acquisitions until 1967, just short of 20 years service. They usually worked out of Alfreton garage on MGO’s ‘rural’ services E2,E3,E4 and E5 between Alfreton and Matlock, routes with some very steep hills, but their 9.6 litre engines could out-perform the later LS’s and MW’s any day! I remember being taken to Matlock on summer Sundays and I loved to travel on these, which were always kept in beautiful condition. On arrival at Matlock Bus Station, they kept company with Silver Service’s wonderful vehicles and North Western’s Bristol K’s. Matlock was a great place to visit then! Fortunately, one of the Regals, KRR 255 is preserved and I believe it usually resides at the Midland Railway Centre, Butterley, Derbyshire.
Chris Barker
12/05/11 – 07:05
The KRR Regal IIIs were new in 1949. KRR 255 is preserved and active.
Peter Williamson
26/10/11 – 10:45
After service with British Rail KRR 261 went to Sykes a dealer at Worsborough Dale South Yorkshire. Does anybody know if this dealer is still trading?
Gren
01/12/12 – 15:53
Am I right that Paul Sykes of Sykes is the same Paul Sykes who developed the giant Meadowhall mall in Sheffield & other ventures, one of the richest men in England? He probably doesn’t need to strip buses much now, but is the company or yard still going?
Joe
09/06/14 – 06:55
British Rail in 1949? oh no! Please gentlemen, surely it could only have been British RailWAYS ? Unfortunately that error seems to be perpetuated by most of the present day railway and model railway press. Despite that pedantic comment on my part, I have to say that I find this to be a marvellous site which I visit regularly. Thanks to all involved
JOJ184
09/06/14 – 11:09
JOJ184, I’m afraid you are making the same error as those you are complaining about. There is nothing pedantic about accuracy and you are being accurate. Far too many people, particularly those working for various media, who claim great education, research and gravitas, daily project errors onto the airwaves, into print and on line. Given their standing and the widespread unthinking acceptance by the public of what they read and hear, especially from rolling news and internet sites such as Wikipedia, historians and researchers of future generations are going to have their work cut out to reach the truth. Rant over!
Phil Blinkhorn
10/06/14 – 07:56
I’m not sure that anyone is being accurate actually. 1949 is the year the bus was new. The date it was photographed with BR is as yet unknown. It would be helpful if someone could post the date on which BR changed its name, then we might have a firmer basis for saying which name should be used.
Peter Williamson
10/06/14 – 07:57
Phil, whilst wholeheartedly agreeing with your comments above I think JOJ184 has misinterpreted the heading caption to the photo. While it is somewhat misleadingly put as British Rail 1949, the year is actually referring to the AEC Regal III/Weymann build date. If you look closely at the side of the bus it is sporting the double arrow logo of British Rail and would have been taken sometime after 1965 hence on this occasion British Rail is the correct terminology. Strange how the board was still known as “The British Railways Board” long after the name British Rail came into use.
If I recall the British Railways rebranding took place around 1965 and included the change of name, the both ways logo and a typeface- Rail Alphabet. This justified a memorable edition of Design Magazine. It was a major step forward- clear and attractive. Apart from London Transport and its successors I’m not sure if any other combination of transport providers has ever done anything like this: logos have been generally messy, undistinguished or unnoticed and liveries- shall we say- lacking in design coherence and simplicity. Some, like SYPTE’s red and yellow or Lincolnshire RC / YTC’s purple and yellow were just awful.
Joe
10/06/14 – 07:59
For the record, JOJ184, British Railways changed its trading name to British Rail in 1965. So none of this thread would include WAYS!!
Chris Hebbron
10/06/14 – 08:02
Wasn’t the Sheffield Midland-Tinsley staff shuttle worked subsequently by SUT (using East Midland buses on summer Saturdays, when all SUT’s coaches would be in demand), and then by Booth & Fisher? I imagine the need for the contract came to an end when BR realised just what a white elephant Tinsley marshalling yard was. And I’m sorry to be a pedant here: but, Phil and JOJ184, the British Rail reference is correct as the picture must date from after the British Rail corporate launch in 1965 . . . as the bus is clearly sporting the BR double arrows.
Philip Rushworth
10/06/14 – 08:03
I’ve answered my own question. Wikipedia says that British Railways traded as British Rail from 1965. My copy of BBF5 is dated April 1965 and shows KRR 261 still with Mansfield District. Therefore the photograph must have been taken in 1965 or later, so that “British Rail” is probably correct.
Peter Williamson
10/06/14 – 15:56
The point about the discrepancy between the date of the bus being built and the date of the photo is well made, as is the fact that the vehicle bears the British Rail logo, dating the picture to 1965 or later. With regard to the British Railways Board and the British Rail name, Peter Williamson has it spot on. British Rail was a trading and marketing name so, had this been a non nationalised company it would have been listed at Companies House as British Railways t/a British Rail.
Phil Blinkhorn
10/06/14 – 15:57
Paul Sykes the bus scrapper is also Paul Sykes the builder of Meadowhall and now chief backer of UKIP
Chris Hough
11/06/14 – 07:48
“British Rail” may be chronologically correct for the photograph, but it is still grammatically gormless. I still resent the term “Rail Station” which, to me, indicates a repository for bulk steel strips, not a boarding and alighting point on a particular mode of transport. Would Gerard Fiennes, if writing today, entitle his book, ‘I Tried To Run A Rail’? I can just about accept “Train Station”, which is compatible with “Bus Station”, but the correct term for the transport infrastructure is ‘Railway’, whatever the marketing morons would wish to thrust upon us. (Dr Johnson is dead; long live Dr Johnson.)
Roger Cox
11/06/14 – 07:50
For clarification, I took the photo on 10th February 1968 hence well into British Rail days
Ian Wild
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
24/02/15 – 15:02
EFE produced a model of an AEC Regal in British Railways livery. It has the registration HKL 842 (Sheffield?) and the code 851-SOM on the sides. Does anyone have any information about this vehicle?
Ian Rawstron
25/02/15 – 06:04
HKL would be a Kent registration Ian.
John Darwent
25/02/15 – 06:05
If you look at: //www.classicbuses.co.uk/mdreg.html and scroll down a bit there is a detailed history of the whole batch with a couple of photographs. It was new to Maidstone & District.
Eastern Belle Motor Coaches (London) 1953 AEC Regal III 6821A Duple C39F
I am a contributor to Focus Transport main site, their blogsite and other sites, I hired a 1950’s AEC half canopy as part of my 60th birthday celebrations to take invited guests for lunch in a 1928 Pullman Carriage at the Spotgate Inn in Staffordshire (www.spotgateinn.co.uk) With no heating the guests survived low temperatures in the morning and the snow on the way home, but everyone had a great time. Very atmospheric. The vehicle is part of the Roger Burdett collection, and stopped in two suburbs in Birmingham as well as Lichfield to collect guests on the way to the restaurant and followed the same route back. The pictures were taken on arrival at the Spotgate Inn and just before departure back to the West Midlands. Most guests took pictures of the vehicle – the first time for nearly all of them that they had travelled on such a vehicle.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones
11/03/12 – 09:17
My word, what a truly magnificent vehicle – that well worn word “classic” must surely apply here – and in a livery uncannily like that of Samuel Ledgard. They say that “you learn something new every day” and I believe its the first time I’ve ever seen a thirty foot long Regal or even been aware of such a variant. It must surely be one of the most handsome vehicles of the “good old days.”
Chris Youhill
11/03/12 – 19:35
Very impressive. It might be the camera angle, but it looks a very long vehicle!
Chris Hebbron
11/03/12 – 19:51
As Chris says a true classic and what a fine vehicle. It is however surprising that a half cab design was selected for such a quality heavyweight coach as late as 1953 as underfloor models had been readily available for a couple of years by then. I agree 30ft long half cab coaches were pretty rare. Other examples I can immediately recall were a batch of Guy Arab half cabs with Roe coach bodies bought by Lancashire United for the Tyne-Tees-Mersey service about the same time.
Philip Halstead
12/03/12 – 06:44
Now you DO surprise me, Chris Y. What about the 1953 Doncaster 30′ Roe bodied Regal IIIs? (…..and I thought one of those had been preserved). The bodies are almost identical to the West Riding 30′ Roe bodied PS2s. PS2s and 9.6 Regal IIIs were rarer than PS1s and “7.7” as were 30′ rarer that 27’6″ – but there were still appreciable numbers.
David Oldfield
David Beilby
Crossley produced 54 30-foot long chassis. However, nearly all of the received full-front bodies, with only eight being of the traditional half-cab layout. Coach design was in an experimental phase at this time, as ten for the USAF had raised rear saloons and a further three were half-deckers.
David Beilby
12/03/12 – 16:04
Yes, David – I’d also thought of the Doncaster 30ft Regals. However, in defence of Chris Y, they had a straight-sided profile with deep windows which didn’t emphasise the length. However, this beautiful Eastern Belle example looks like a 27’6 version stretched to 30′. Indeed, I now see that EFE made a model of this coach, but using their 27’6″ mould with six side windows instead of the Eastern Belle’s seven. I wonder if, in 1953, the Duple staff had to delve into the back of the stores to find the patterns and templates for this late example from a different era. A rash question to our knowledgeable readers, but was this the last curved-sided half-cab ever made?
Paul Haywood
12/03/12 – 16:05
Here an example of a Lancashire United Guy Philip alluded to. The Roe body is not dramatically different from the Duple style. They were built in 1950. https://secure.flickr.com/ For some reason the page does not display correctly in IE you will have to scroll down to find the picture all other browsers work fine.
Chris Hebbron
12/03/12 – 17:17
What Ken did not mention but makes it rarer is that it is 7ft 6ins not 8ft. The West Riding PS2s from 1953 (I have one of those as well) are much bigger vehicles and 8ft
Roger (rbctc)
12/03/12 – 19:08
There’s a picture of the West Riding Leyland half cab mentioned above at //www.focustransport.org.uk she’s commonly referred to as Ethel because of her registration plate
Ken Jones
13/03/12 – 06:37
Barton Transport had a Duple A coach body which they lengthened themselves to a 30ft 39 seater as part of their BTS1 re-building programme, I think it was the only only one which retained a half cab body. No doubt they had lots of spare body parts from all their alterations but perhaps it wasn’t as easy as may be thought, I imagine it would have involved altering the body pillars to correspond with the increased wheelbase but the side window pattern on the finished product was exactly the same as on the one above.
Chris Barker
13/03/12 – 06:38
Don’t forget the possibly largest batch (?) of 30 foot half cab coaches, Royal Blue’s 1951 Bristol LL6B/Duple C37F, 24 in number.
Dave Williamson
14/03/12 – 06:54
In my last post, I forgot about the further 14 Bristol LL6B/Duple C37F which Southern/Western National acquired in 1951 for their own fleets.
Dave Williamson
15/03/12 – 09:30
Again though the Royal Blue Ls were 8ft.
Roger (rbctc)
15/03/12 – 12:07
……..and nothing as late as 1953. Unless someone knows different?
Paul Haywood
16/03/12 – 07:23
David O. mentions the three Roe-bodied 30′ Regal III’s for Doncaster. According to the PSV Circle’s chassis list for the type, the previous three chassis numbers to these were three seemingly identical Roe-bodied buses supplied to the Belfast Steamship Co. of Liverpool. I have never otherwise heard anything else about these buses, or ever seen photographs of them. Does anyone have any information about these totally overlooked machines? The list shows around 50 Regals with seating capacities of 37 or over, so which were probably of the longer length – surprisingly AEC did not give them a different chassis code. There were 108 Leyland PS2 30-footers: 12 Roe-bodied buses for West Riding. 6 Roe-bodied coaches for West Riding (with the similar bodies to the LUT Arabs). 71 buses for C.I.E. (with their own bodies) 14 East Lancs-bodied buses for Burnley, Colne and Nelson. 1 Burlingham-bodied coach for Wilkinson’s, Sedgefield. 1 Burlingham-bodied coach for Harding’s, Birkenhead. 1 Heaver-bodied coach for City Coach Co. 2 Observation Coaches for U.T.A. bodied by themselves. The City Coach and U.T.A. examples were six-wheelers with a temporary additional lightweight front axle, to legitimise their 30′ length prior to the relaxation in the length limit. They were designed to be removed when this came into force.
John Stringer
16/03/12 – 08:36
C H Roe (Geoff Lumb) p82 shows a Belfast Battle, sorry, Steamship bus – of 1954. These are quoted as being the same as the 1953 Doncaster examples. I believe that there were earlier 27’6″ examples before and also Regal IVs.
David Oldfield
17/03/12 – 16:31
This Eastern Belle coach (NXL 847) was the company’s second similar vehicle. In 1951, they had taken MLC 343, a photo of which is included in Eric Ogden’s ‘Duple’ book. Were the Royal Blues 8 feet wide? The LL chassis was the 7ft 6in version, the 8ft option being the LWL. Southern/Western National introduced white steering wheels to denote 8 feet wide vehicles; the photos I’ve seen of the Royal Blue LL6B coaches have the traditional black steering wheels. There were more than the 108 30 foot PS2 Tigers listed by John Stringer. In the PSV Circle Leyland PS2 chassis list, as well as those 108, 44 of the PS2/3 are quoted as 30 feet long, with the note that ‘there may be others’. It seems that early production 30 footers were conversions from the shorter models (Doug Jack’s ‘The Leyland Bus’).
Dave Williamson
18/03/12 – 07:55
My Duple L LTA 898 has a white steering wheel and whilst I would not stake my life savings on it I think is 8ft. On the PS2 8ft vehicles most were buses and I think only the West Riding were 1953
Roger (rbctc)
18/03/12 – 09:00
I rather think white steering wheels to remind drivers that the vehicle was 8ft wide was standard Bristol practice.
Roy Burke
19/03/12 – 09:10
West Riding’s last PS2s came in 1953 some of these had Roe coach bodies Burnley continued to buy PS2s until 1955 and these (fitted for OMO) lasted until the early seventies
Chris Hough
19/03/12 – 17:28
Two of the contributors to this thread mentioned the Regal IIIs supplied to Doncaster Corporation.
I’m happy to attach a photo of number 22, taken at it’s home at Sandtoft Transport centre.
Andrew Charles
20/03/12 – 16:01
What great pictures, Andrew, of a superb and beautifully preserved vehicle. 22 is just fabulous, and shows how well Doncaster’s livery could look when clean and fresh, which, at the risk of offending anyone, I have to say it often wasn’t. The use of front-engined vehicles for one-man operation was, I think, quite rare. It must have required some twisting and turning for the driver.
Roy Burke
21/03/12 – 07:28
As Roy rightly says, the use of front engined vehicles for one person operation was comparatively rare, but certainly not rare enough. The degree of contortion necessary for the driver at every stop was totally unacceptable and must have been the cause of spinal and inner organ damage. Much scoffing is aimed these days at “Health & Safety” which can admittedly sometimes be over the top, but in this particular instance it should have been applied with full force to prevent this ludicrous practice. I should juts clarify that I’m referring to front engined vehicles of the traditional layout – a modern exception of course being the wonderful, in my humble view and from experience, Ailsa Volvo double decker – a vehicle whose incredibly skilful design allowed a front engine, adequate passenger flow on the platform, comfortable room for the driver, and 79 seated passengers conveyed reasonably speedily by a 6.7 litre engine. I’ve always had the feeling that the sales figures of the Ailsa were mortally wounded by the unreasonable fear of the layout which the ill fated Guy Wulfrunian left as its legacy.
Chris Youhill
21/03/12 – 07:29
Am I correct in thinking that an operator called Homeland Tours bought a number of 30ft Leyland Comets? I’m sure I’ve seen a picture somewhere, I would imagine they really were unique!
Chris Barker
22/03/12 – 08:07
Re Chris’s comments about the Ailsa, I don’t think anyone would make comparisons with the Wulfrunian because it was well documented that the problems there were caused by Guy overreaching itself with advanced braking and suspension systems. What operators probably were fearful of was the small turbocharged engine, an idea which was virtually unknown in Britain then. In other words, a bus ahead of its time.
Peter Williamson
22/03/12 – 13:35
There were some outstanding bus liveries around and one nomination I would give is to West Bromwich Corporation, witness the preserved Daimler CVG6-30 seen HERE: https://secure.flickr.com Pity that, whenever I caught glimpses of them lurking around in Brum, they were always as tatty as Hell! It didn’t help that B’ham Corp’n generally kept their vehicles impeccable.
Chris Hebbron
22/03/12 – 13:36
Homeland Tours was an operator based in Croydon during the post war years who had a number of Leyland Comets with Strachans C37F bodies. As a schoolboy in the Croydon area in the 1950s, I used to see these coaches about frequently. I believe that these vehicles were actually owned and operated by Wallace Arnold to whom Homeland had “passed” the licences and goodwill. Homeland Tours still exists as a travel agent in Croydon.
Roger Cox
23/03/12 – 06:40
Regarding the Ailsa Peter, the engine theory is an interesting one which I hadn’t thought of. In the event though, any concerns about the performance and longevity of those tiny Volvo engines have proved to be unfounded, and the performance of their immediate successors leaves me full of admiration. For example, the speed at which the Volvo B7TLs ascend Royal Park Road (very steep) on the 56 service in Leeds with around ninety passengers, while confidently changing gear upwards, is nothing short of amazing – those long in the tooth like me recall the 7.7 litre Mark V AEC Regents whistling, wheezing and protesting at little more than walking pace when heavily loaded.
Chris Youhill
23/03/12 – 09:33
Thanks, Chris H for the link to the West Bromwich Daimler. A very smart vehicle indeed. It made me think about other liveries, and I wondered what other correspondents’ favourites might be. East Yorkshire’s indigo and primrose has its fans, and from my own neck of the woods, York Pullman was always both smart and attractive, (and it still exists). Any nominations?
Roy Burke
23/03/12 – 16:43
Sheffields smart cream and blue always smartly turned out was a favourite The many variations in the late lamented Black Prince livery again always smart Pennine Motors unusual orange and black The LCT one man livery was always smart though often dirty Others will no doubt have their own choices. One other to mention is the Leeds blue and cream pre-war livery on both buses and trams examples of which happily survive.
Chris Hough
24/03/12 – 09:16
Just one more from me then, City of Oxford. This photo of an AEC Regent III with Weymann lowbridge body (a pseudo LT RLH) shows of its livery superbly. See HERE: //www.fotolibra.com/
Chris Hebbron
24/03/12 – 12:17
Indeed many of us have our favourite “traditional” liveries, and with good cause, when we have to live with some of today’s ghastly and inappropriate offering, most of which make me despair as to where the Industry is going. I just wish the “marketing” fraternity would stick to promoting baked beans etc. and that operators would cease wasting so much money on garish and incomprehensible horrors which the travelling public are probably unaware of and totally disinterested in. Rant over, but not for long, as I feel so strongly about this issue that I can rarely get it out of my mind. Now then, another favourite livery or two of mine – Southend Corporation’s beautiful light blue and rich cream, especially when they spent their money wisely against the 1960s trend by increasing the number of places on the intermediate destination blinds from three to six – the expression “getting your priorities right” springs to mind. How about the most dignified Accrington Corporation dark navy and red – different and sombre, yes, but most impressive.
Chris Youhill
24/03/12 – 18:12
Yes Chris, Accrington’s was indeed a most dignified and distinctive livery. I once read in a book somewhere that it was first applied after World War I, as a mark of respect to the many Accrington Pals killed in action. Their regimental colours were red and blue with gold lining. It is also said that the mudguards of the buses were painted black at the same time, as a sign of mourning. However, other operators also had buses with black mudguards over the years, so I’m not quite so sure about the latter. A very touching tribute nonetheless though, to such brave men.
Brendan Smith
25/03/12 – 09:11
I agree with Chris Youhill’s hatred of modern corporate colour schemes (I hesitate to grace them with the title “liveries”). My particular dislike is having windows plastered with stupid advertising tosh. WINDOWS ARE FOR LOOKING OUT OF! If they want to cover them over they may as well save on glass and just panel the sides in altogether (as they have the rear of many vehicles).
Stephen Ford
25/03/12 – 09:12
I’m waiting for Chris Y to vote for South Yorkshire Motors, (from West Yorkshire) whose Oxford/Cambridge blue was very handsome & well maintained despite the age of some of the vehicles. As someone said, Doncaster’s Crimson Lake was potentially good, but attacked by filthy roads around collieries until it went a sort of dark maroon. Doncaster’s old livery never had any names- just the coat of arms. The old umbery East Midlands had a mention here- but it was dropped for the ultimate in boring. Perhaps the most horrific “new” livery was South Yorkshire Transport’s (not to be confused) Yuk yellow & red, with some dreadful graphics. What a far cry….
Joe
25/03/12 – 09:13
The Accrington livery up to the late sixties also included black window surrounds on the lower saloon, which I always think set it off. This may be the black that was referred to rather than the wings.
David Beilby
25/03/12 – 12:07
As many will know Joe, I spent my last fourteen years with South Yorkshire Road Transport (and several successors) at Pontefract Depot. The vehicles were indeed well maintained and smart, inside and out, and I can’t imagine many private firms employing a team of four daytime lady cleaners Monday to Friday to keep the interiors of around twenty vehicles in pristine order. These splendid ladies left no stone unturned and could often be seen on their knees washing with difficulty the seat support rails and other areas usually unknown to the average cleaner elsewhere. There honestly were amusing occasions when a vehicle had to be rapidly collected from the depot for an unexpected changeover – I have personally experienced leaping into a cab and setting off promptly for the bus station to hear an anguished cry from up aloft – “Just a minute luv”, and two of the worthy ladies would come downstairs with buckets and mops and alight just in time to avoid being whisked away to Doncaster or Barnsley !! The original South Yorkshire Motors livery of two blues and rich cream with traditional fleetname was indeed a classic one. When the Company was reconstituted (still under family ownership) as South Yorkshire Road Transport Limited the livery gave way to the familiar modern one of two blues and stark white ir-rational (to me) rectangular shapes, and bold white large fleetnames. Rumour has it that the white shape of the lower forward panel was to emphasise the presence of the front wheels which I suppose had some merit – but I have to say that I found the new livery to be a retrograde step and I didn’t particularly like its layout and the stark white.
Chris Youhill
26/03/12 – 07:44
Here Here Chris re. modern liveries! Absolutely awful. You mention the superb Southend pale blue and cream, laid out in traditional fashion. It was enough to inspire Bradford to change in 1942 when they borrowed some Southend trolleys. I think the best traditional liveries were those employed by the Tilling Group, but perhaps my own personal all-time favourite was the deep green with cream stripes of that wonderful AEC fleet, Morecambe and Heysham Corporation, which showed off the lines of classic Park Royal and Weymann bodywork with real flair. Them wer t`days all right
John Whitaker
26/03/12 – 10:34
I recall the attractive M & H livery on one visit there, with typical ‘tramway’ lettering and fleet numbers. The buses had no route numbers/letters.
Chris Hebbron
01/04/12 – 08:43
I had the chance to ride on this excellent coach again today and got a picture of the engine. I do hope it is of interest to you.
Ken Jones
29/04/12 – 16:56
I was at the Irish Transport Heritage Bus & Coach rally at Cultra, Holywood, Co. Down on 28th April and saw it tucked away. A lovely example and a welcome visitor. I didn’t get the best shot but here is a link to my photo on Flickr //www.flickr.com/
Robin Parkes
03/05/12 – 08:48
600 mile round trip to take Eastern Belle to Belfast with 20 passengers-must be one of the longest trips for a half-cab in 2012 and it ran perfectly.
Roger rbc
05/01/13 – 15:40
Whilst (laboriously) digitising my slide collection I came across this view of NXL 847 – then in a two-tone green livery – as it prepared to depart from the HCVC Brighton Rally in 1973.
John Stringer
06/01/13 – 11:19
1973 was the year I graduated from University and NXL 847 “Eastern Belle” belonged to Waltham Forest Council Welfare Services at the time. – Thanks to Roger Burdett – current owner for this information
Ken Jones
16/11/13 – 11:06
Having been born in Bow, East London I remember Eastern Belle Coaches very well. In the fifties our street would book a coach with eastern belle to take us to see the Southend Lights. I also remember their garage being a very crampt premises on the Bow Road. I took my first car there for an MOT in the early sixties and remember seeing two redundant dust covered AECs wallowing in the corner. I am now 70 years old but never forget these lovely well kept vehicles.
B Greaves
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
15/04/16 – 09:19
Re the comment posted by John Stringer (16/03/12) regarding, the two “observation coaches” built on PS2 chassis by the UTA they were eventually rebuilt (along with many other PS2’s) into PD2/10C deckers with UTA 60 seat bodies. Curiously both survive in this format – one is preserved and the other is a former playbus.
I see this old thread has risen again, thanks to a wonderful view from Bill Headley. Thank you for posting! I note the exchanges of thought about the Ailsa. I’m not sure if the claim is still made (if it ever was!) but I seem to remember the Volvo cars were designed for a 22 year life. No wonder their bus engines performed as healthily as CY reports!
Pete Davies
16/04/16 – 09:15
Not true of the B6 engine, Pete. The B6 was a dreadful attempt at a Dart clone, and a complete abomination.
Sheffield United Tours 1949 AEC Regal III Windover C32F
Looking in remarkably good shape for a contractor’s vehicle is this ex Sheffield United Tours AEC Regal III – chassis number 0962200, with a C32F body by Windover. It entered service in 1949, was sold on to Davies, Tredegar (via dealer) about July 1958, thence (via dealer) to Townson as shown, who operated it for about two years before selling on again. What a great combination was the AEC Regal III/Windover half cab.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson
21/09/12 – 07:10
SUT had a goodly number of these vehicles on both the medium weight 068 as well as the heavyweight 0962 version of the Regal III. There were also a fair number of Duples – which were disposed of rather quickly/earlier than the Windovers. I’m too young (oh yes I am) to remember these half-cab Windovers in service. Apparently they were known for two things: (i) They were superbly finished – “even better than Duple” but (ii) the structure was suspect (with the common post-war use of “green” wood for the frames). These bodies were very popular with the BET companies who did substantial coach work (especially in the north). It was rare, however, for them to reach a ten year life-span with their first operator.
David Oldfield
21/09/12 – 08:32
I don’t recall seeing – and certainly don’t have any “bought” views of – these vehicles in reality, though I have seen them in model form. The models seem to capture the reality very well. I have vague memories of Townson vehicles in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s, when they, like Monk of Warrington and, of course, Wimpey, used old buses and coaches as staff transport.
Pete Davies
22/09/12 – 07:11
Some of the earlier SUT coaches were 0662 Regal I types and the name of the body was the Huntingdon. It was built in numbers on Leyland Tiger and AEC Regal chassis and North Western had quite a few Bristol Ls. I believe there were also one or two Guys. Windover then went on to have further success on Royal Tiger and Regal IV underfloor chassis with the Kingsway. [Personally, I thought this an ugly body – but then few could compete with the early Seagulls.] Bizarrely, for a firm whose products (from the point of view of finish) were so highly regarded – and eminently suitable as touring coaches – they disappeared after the Royal Tiger/Regal IV era. I am not aware that they even got as far as bodying a Tiger Cub or Reliance. Doubly strange since they had been in business since 1766. Their factory was just down the road from Duple’s in north London.
David Oldfield
22/09/12 – 07:12
Davids point about BET companies in the North. As far as I know Ribble had some Windover’s, and although I’ve only seen pictures of them, Northern General had 8 on Guy Arab chassis fitted with Meadows engines, but they were later replaced with AEC A173 7.7 units. They were new in 1949 and by Northerns standards they had a relatively short life of only 8 years, they were gone by 1957.
Ronnie Hoye
22/09/12 – 07:13
I’ve always thought that this body from Windovers came a very close second to the Duple A type for it’s pleasing lines and symmetry. They got the look of this just right and it’s very easy on the eye compared to others of the time, some of which had the vertical framing pointing up in all directions, like badly arranged flowers in a vase! There’s no wonder that the BET group went for them in a big way although I had heard about the problems mentioned by David O, I understand that the roof and domes were notorious for leaking water into the saloon.
Chris Barker
22/09/12 – 07:13
Do any of the Sheffield contributors remember various SUT AEC Regal coaches operating on hire(?) to Sheffield Transport during the late 1950s? I particularly remember the fully fronted LWE registered batch operating on the 82 between Ecclesall and Middlewood with an honesty box just inside the entrance. I think this was more a result of a crew shortage rather than serviceable vehicles.
Ian Wild
23/09/12 – 06:45
Re S.U.T. coaches operating on hire to S.T.D. I can also remember travelling on them on the 82. Also I remember that Batchelors hired a coach to “market” their products. They gave out free samples of their products! I recall that this was my first introduction to green pea soup.
Stephen Bloomfield
23/09/12 – 06:46
I’ve just been through the fleet history to make sure of my gut reaction, and Ribble never operated any vehicles with Windover bodywork. Some of North Western’s Huntingdon bodied Bristol L5Gs were “cascaded” to Melba Motors in 1958-61 and repainted in that subsidiary’s blue and cream livery. EFE have produced a 1/76 scale model of one of these Melba machines, depicted after sale to British Railways. For customers wanting bodywork for underfloor engined chassis (but who considered the Kingsway too avant garde) Windover also offered the Queensway model with more “traditional” lines. Unfortunately it somehow resembled an electric-powered delivery van or milk float and its only major customer was Yorkshire Woollen District. Incidentally, while it’s a well-known fact that the Kingsway body was named after the location of the BET Group’s head office (and the Queensway merely mimicked the nomenclature of the Kingsway), nobody has ever been able to tell me why the front-engined body was called the Huntingdon. Any suggestions?
Neville Mercer
23/09/12 – 06:50
Sorry pardon chaps, but not for the first time I’ve got it wrong, Northern General had 10 Windover Guy’s, I don’t know the full numbers of the batch, but one was BCN 26 fleet number 1226
Ronnie Hoye
23/09/12 – 06:51
Yorkshire Woollen had Windover coaches both half cab and a late batch of Royal Tigers. Incidentally when I got married the Rolls Royce wedding car had a Windover body c.1935.
Philip Carlton
23/09/12 – 06:52
I don’t recall hearing about SUT coaches on hire to Sheffield Transport Department before, but it certainly happened that Joint Committee buses went to work for SUT on occasion. Under the Sheffield heading of the ‘Vehicle Developments’ column, in Buses Illustrated issue no. 56 for November 1959, there’s a report that ” …. Leyland Tiger PS1’s 1193-5, 1201/2 (KWE 93-5, KWE 1/2), which have Weymann bodes, were on loan to Sheffield United Tours in July.” Interestingly, in the same issue under the Sheffield United Tours heading, it mentions that the operator actually hired back AEC Regal III’s, 186/90 (LWE886/90) from the dealer to whom they’d already been sold, in order to assist with summer peak traffic. It must have been a busy summer at Charlotte Road!
Dave Careless
23/09/12 – 06:53
I did not know that Windover were in business as far back as 1766, but the firm certainly opened a factory in my nearby town of Huntingdon in 1796, building high quality carriages and, later, motor car bodywork for prestigious marques such as Rolls Royce and Bentley. The business moved to Colindale in north west London in 1924.The firm made aircraft components during WW2 and expanded into commercial vehicle bodywork postwar. In 1956 the company was taken over by Henleys and all coachbuilding activity ceased.
Roger Cox
23/09/12 – 19:37
Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Copyright R F Mack
Just a follow up to the story on SUT Regals which may be of interest, EYMS purchased three of SUT 1947 Regal/Duple coaches in 6/48 becoming 502-504 HWJ 989/990/992 these lasted with EYMS until 9/60 and then all three passed to Lloyds of Nuneaton. At first they were operated in SUT livery with EY fleet names before being repainted into EY’s indigo blue & primrose, I believe Yorkshire Traction also bought some from this batch as well.
Mike Davies
23/09/12 – 19:39
The Windover Kingsway did make it into the lightweight era, just. Two AEC Reliances appeared at the 1954 Commercial Motor Show with C41R bodies. They were MBE 611 for Hudson, Horncastle and RUP 843 for Gillett, Quarrington Hill. Biss Bros, Bishops Stortford also had four Kingsway bodied Foden PVRF6, NJH 847 of 1951, and NUR 197, NUR 198 and ORO 107 of 1952. A further BET customer for the Queensway was Red Line, W10, with OLX 1-3 on AEC Regal IV chassis. A picture of one appears in Ian Allan abc of Buses and Coaches, published around 1956, although wrongly described as a Reliance. At least the first and last were rebodied with Plaxton Panorama bodies, and photos of them in this form can be seen on Flickr.
David Williamson
24/09/12 – 07:18
The SUT AEC Regals were on hire to STD, I think in 1956, they also worked on the 110 Parson Cross via Owlerton service at peak times. A colleague, the late Mike Gillott, became an auxiliary conductor, supervising the half cab forward entrance. He regularly travelled to and from his workplace on 82 Ecclesall duties, assisting the regular driver. An acute staff shortage WAS the reason for the hiring.
Keith Beeden
24/09/12 – 10:31
Thank you for the information Keith, I recalled the honesty box and hence no normal conductor to take fares but I couldn’t remember how the manual door was operated.
Ian Wild
25/09/12 – 07:00
Roger answers the Huntingdon question. Trent had some Regal IIIs – one I believe now owned by Steve Morris – and Timpsons had Regal IV/Kingsways (such as LUW 454 which worked on hire to SUT, complete with shield.) Thanks to Trevor Weckert for latter information.
David Oldfield
22/03/13 – 08:00
SUT was the winners of the 1st International coach rally in Montreux in 1949 with KWA 724, a Regal III with Huntingdon coachwork. they repeated this success the following year with LWE 892, one of the full fronted Regal III’s. Incidentally, the entire batch of full fronted Regal III’s were originally ordered as 7’6″ (6821A)wide but when Ben Goodfellow, the new GM took over he modified the order to that of LWE 885-890 to remain as ordered but LWE 891-896 to the new 8′ wide specification (9621E). Regarding Batchelors Demonstrators..MWJ 197/NWB 198/9/203/4/6/8/OWA 210/111/OWB 215 were all used for this purpose.
Trev Weckert
20/11/18 – 11:11
Just found your website and photo (KWS 722) as I was looking for photo’s of Townson buses used as workmens transport. This bus was used daily on the Bolton to Manchester Piccadilly Station run when Townsons had the main contrct for the rebuilding of the station in 1964 /6. I worked for Townsons on that site and travelled on this bus daily during my employment there. I note that in the first comment the contributor says this was sold on after Townson’s use, but my recollection differs. In 1966 the transmission shaft became increasingly “clunky” and eventually it crashed up through the floor of the bus on a journey home to Bolton,in 1966, though I was not present at that time. I was told that the bus was eventually scrapped, by the person who regularly drove the buses for Wm. Townson. By the way, the door was operated by a large vertical lever on the inside which pulled inwards and backwards to operate the sliding mech. Hope this helps.
The photo is taken outside the old London Road station Manchester, before it was renamed Piccadilly Station.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1949 AEC Regal III Roe B32R
Halifax buses seemed to undergo a curious renumbering merry go round from time to time, as if fleet numbers were somehow on ration. The number 258 was a case in point. Here is another Regal III of the 1949 batch, BCP 544, which, like its fellow AJX 848 also on this site, was rebuilt from B32R to B33F in 1953/4. It originally joined the ‘B’ Joint Committee fleet as number 269, but in October 1964 it was transferred to the ‘A’ Corporation fleet as number 99. In the following month it was transferred back again to the ‘B’ fleet with the number 268, but it was then renumbered again as 258, which is the number it carries in this picture. This Regal was the only remaining example of its type when I joined Halifax Passenger Transport as a Traffic Clerk towards the end of 1964, and I drove it from time to time when training for my PSV licence in early 1965. Despite its sixteen years of service, it was a delightful and characterful bus to drive, and carried its age very lightly.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
24/10/12 – 07:58
One thing that has always intrigued me with exposed radiators is the variety of ways people find for keeping them warm. This one’s ‘appendage’ looks quite professional, certainly far better than a bit of old newspaper!
Pete Davies
24/10/12 – 11:15
I was going to refer to these over another recent posting. They seem to suggest that AEC and Leyland engines ran “cold” but did Daimlers D’s ever have them? – because they ran hot, it seems, judging by the supplementary air intake, otherwise known as leaving the bonnet side open and resting on the mudguard. Am I anywhere near, Engineers?
Joe
24/10/12 – 11:30
That’s an interesting observation, Pete. I can’t make out the exact nature of the blind on this vehicle, but, as you say, there were many different approaches. I’ve always been fascinated, for example, with East Yorkshire, which seemed to like placing an aluminium sheet over part of the exposed radiator, although, for reasons I’ve not understood, the actual treatment varied between vehicles, even ones of the same batch. Did the engineers know the fleet so well that they could tailor blinds individually, since although you could raise or lower a flexible blind, an aluminium sheet was a fixed feature?
Roy Burke
24/10/12 – 12:47
What a marvellous sight to see this morning as I land on the OBP Homepage bleary-eyed ! How lucky you were Roger to have driven this delightful bus. Around this time I was still at school, and this last remaining Regal was sometimes used to transport us the relatively short distance to Woodside Swimming Baths if the more usual Nimbus was unavailable. Our local Bus Club hired it in 1965 for a memorable visit to Bolton, Bury and Rochdale Corporations – on which it performed admirably. It was almost regarded as a mascot by the local enthusiasts. Not long afterwards it was sold to local building contractor Pickles for staff transport. HPT repainted the lower panels cream before sale, and it pottered around the locality in an increasing state of decrepitude until finally scrapped. Unfortunately, the framework modifications involved in moving the entrance to the front – cutting out a large piece when there was already a weakness due to the emergency door being directly opposite, and cutting into the front bulkhead to allow for one-man-operation, severely compromised its structural integrity. The uncanny thing about your photo is that aside from the fact that 258 was scrapped forty-odd years ago, it could have been taken this morning. Parked in what is nowadays referred to as 7-Bay at Skircoat Garage, the building is exactly the same – even to having the same shades of paint on the wall, though today it is maybe peeling a bit more.
John Stringer
24/10/12 – 17:48
There was always a timelessness about the old Skircoat Garage, wasn’t there, John. One would have been only mildly surprised to chance across a tram or two, such was the period feel to the place. I wrote to Geoff Hilditch a few years back to send him copies of my small store of Halifax bus pictures, and he very kindly replied in a long letter. One of the things he told me was that the Skircoat depot, along with Elmwood, is facing demolition in the near future. Another piece of treasured transport history seems to be about to vanish. Joe’s comment about hot running engines is interesting. Gardners were always cool runners, which proved to be a bit of a problem when bus heaters became generally adopted. The vast majority of wartime Daimlers had the AEC 7.7 engine, as did the bulk of utility Bristols. Any cooling problems must have been caused by the installation design. Daimler’s own CD6 8.6 litre engine proved to be highly variable in quality between individual examples, the best being satisfactory, but the worst were as bad as the contemporary Crossley HOE7. Installations were probably made to cater for a worst case scenario.
Roger Cox
Leeds exposed radiator buses had both an aluminium plate and a roll down blind attached to it. There were two distinct designs the AEC version covered the radiator from the bottom to just over half way The one used on Titans and Crossleys was around 2-3 feet deep and was positioned mid radiator. These were generally fitted around this time of year and were removed in March/April.
Chris Hough
24/10/12 – 17:49
One of this batch came to Rochdale when I lived there in the early 1960’s to operate for the Social Services Department. If I remember correctly it was fitted with a wheelchair lift. I regret I cannot remember the number of the vehicle but it was painted in Rochdale Corporation’s then new livery of cream with a single blue band. It was a case of what might have been as Rochdale was of course a staunch AEC user but never actually had any post-war single deck half cabs.
Philip Halstead
25/10/12 – 07:14
Isn’t it interesting how some postings generate a lot of comment, sometimes veering off at tangents from tangents from tangents, while other postings generate very little? It’s all part of the fun of taking part in the world of the forum!
Pete Davies
25/10/12 – 07:47
You’ve noticed that as well, Pete.
David Oldfield
25/10/12 – 12:02
Of course it’s unrelated to interest or enthusiasm, for there would be plenty of silent admirers, even with quiet posts. What always intrigues me are the posts which run their course, go silent for ages, then spring into life again! And by some queer quirk, I sometimes find the whole thread passed me by the first time round!
Chris Hebbron
25/10/12 – 12:01
The Regal that went to Rochdale was BCP 543 and it was given the fleet number 500. It said “Welfare Service” in the destination box.
David Beilby
25/10/12 – 12:03
Geoffrey Hilditch is alive and well. I met him the other week on one of his visits to Wigan. He still drives from Torquay and back. He said how much he enjoyed his time at Halifax and wondered if today’s bus managers feel the same, with all the financial pressures. I didn’t know about the garages though – they are still there!
Geoff Kerr
25/10/12 – 16:03
I agree with John and Roger – Skircoat Garage has hardly changed over the intervening years. Enjoy it while you can – word is that the site has been sold to ASDA and the depot will be demolished in the near future
Ian Wild
26/10/12 – 07:34
Hope ASDA realise that they’re going to have ghosts of AEC Regals amongst their frozen ready-meals!
Stephen Ford
26/10/12 – 07:35
Ian. How sad to think that a useful building providing work, skills, training and local employment has to die to build yet another Temple to the £1 bottle of milk. If I lived there I would never step foot inside the place but, just last weekend I bought a new camera from Curry’s/PC World built on the site of the former Winterstoke Road Garage of Bristol Omnibus Company..but not without thought.
Richard Leaman
26/10/12 – 14:16
The same thing happened to the Newcastle Corporation central works at Byker which employed dozens of people with all manor of skills, as well as being a garage they could virtually build a vehicle from scratch. Now it’s a retail park where you can buy all manor of goods, mostly produced in China. I think it comes under the definition of progress.
Ronnie Hoye
27/01/13 – 16:58
Reverting to the comments about radiator blinds/mufflers, one company that was very organised in this respect was Bristol. Their blinds had a white stripe down the middle. At various points on the system – the one I happen to recall was at Bath Bus Station – there was a miniature display of a radiator with blind. This would be set to show the desired blind setting for the day, to match temperature. The white stripe on the blind meant that an inspector could spot from a distance that the driver had set his own blind correctly. The attached view shows buses with two of what appear to have been four different settings. You can just make out in the left hand view the clips to which the upper part of the blind would be attached. It would be interesting to know whether the setting was determined by head office or locally. I can imagine there being considerable temperature variation on the same day between the coast at Weston and the high ridge of the southern Cotswolds.
Alan Murray-Rust
01/06/13 – 15:30
I’m a Bristolian and spent several years working for BOC but never knew that! Remember Winterstoke of course and was quite shocked when I saw it had gone.
Geoff Kerr
03/10/16 – 08:15
Geoff….I pass the site where Winterstoke Road Bus Garage was located just about every day and the line up of retail warehouses is just a terrible replacement for that superb garage. In my mind I see lines of K, L and KSW parked up with a few of those new fangled Lodekka’s! Once upon a long time ago I spent many an hour with my old friend Clive checking fleet numbers and spotting favourites from the safety of the grassed areas just inside the front walls. I do remember the radiator setting sign also mentioned….it is a good 40 plus years ago but have an idea there was one on the back wall of the old Marlborough Street Bus Station..in the garage/parking area…I remember seeing it/them many times and think one might be preserved at the BVBG garage. I will have a look on the next open day.
W Alexander & Sons (Northern) 1951 AEC Regal III 6821A Alexander C35F
Here is a view of DMS130. This AEC Regal III 6821A was new to W Alexander & Sons in 1951, with an Alexander C35F body as A104. When the company split, she passed to the Northern section as NA 104. She is seen in this guise in the yard of the Hants & Dorset depot in Southampton in May 1977. The then preservationists lived in nearby Bishops Waltham.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
01/09/13 – 14:13
The bus is still preserved, and there are many photos on my website at www.vintagebus.org
John Braga
10/04/17 – 06:38
This is one of six chassis ordered by James Sutherland of Peterhead immediately before their takeover by Alexanders in 1950. They were due to have Duple bodies similar to Sutherland’s six recently delivered Leyland PS1s which became Alexander PA197-202. However they were put to the back of the queue at Alexanders Coachbuilders and instead received some of their last halfcab bodies, 8ft wide on a 7ft 6in chassis, in a style also fitted to Alexanders 20 OPS2s. Duple was upset by this, so a number of Alexander pre-war Leylands were rebodied by Duple to fulfill the order.
Eastbourne Corporation 1950 AEC Regal III 6821A East Lancs DP30R
Eastbourne Corporation purchased this single Regal III 6821A with East Lancs. DP30R body in 1950 and numbered it 11. Though they also owned a small number of other single deckers it is said that this one was intended to provide a better class of vehicle for private hire work, though it did perform its share of service work if the need arose. In the late 1960’s it was repainted from the much admired, traditional blue, yellow and white livery into the latest cream and blue version recently introduced on the Roadliners and Panthers and gradually being applied to some double deckers. Although to most this was a regrettable move, the new livery still looked very smart and their buses were always immaculately turned out. It is seen here outside the original depot in Churchdale Road in July 1970, having just been renumbered 93. Sold to the London Bus Preservation Group in 1978, it was later repurchased by the Corporation, and has since been restored to full PSV status by them and into its original livery as no. 11 once more. It has attended many rallies, but is still also available for private hire work and even puts in the occasional appearance on service work.
Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer
16/12/13 – 07:39
Here is another shot of Eastbourne Regal 11 in the original blue primrose and white livery. This was taken in 2006 at the Worthing and Adur Rally
Roy Nicholson
23/12/13 – 06:59
Wonderful in either livery, but I do prefer the original one, as seen in the lower picture. Everything about this bus looks right: the glass louvres add style, the swoop doesn’t detract from the horizontal flow of the body, and the rear end has prewar dignity to it. Would that all coach bodies had this service-bus integrity of design.
Ian Thompson
23/12/13 – 11:22
Much as I usually prefer the original livery, Ian, in this case, I think the upper photo gives a much lighter look to the vehicle. Maybe the omission of the yellow swoop would help.
BCP 543 was originally one of twenty-two AEC Regal III 9621E’s with Roe B32R bodies delivered to the Halifax Corporation and JOC fleets in 1949, and was numbered 268. Fourteen of them, including 268, were rebuilt at Skircoat Road workshops during 1953/54 to B33F layout and with modifications made to the front bulkhead to allow for one-man-operation. These were also for a time repainted into a livery of cream with a single orange band to draw attention to the fact that they were OMO and in connection with them being used for the local Countryside Tours during the summertime and bank holidays, though they were returned to standard bus livery later. Withdrawn in 1964, 268 was sold to the Rochdale Corporation Welfare Department who rebuilt it with a rear tail-lift for the transport of disabled people and numbered it 500. They renumbered it 900 in 1970, and it was withdrawn and sold for scrap in 1972. Though Roe’s teak body framing always had an enviable reputation for strength and longevity, when Halifax Corporation had carried out its modifications, the cutting of an aperture in the nearside for the forward entrance directly opposite another on the offside for the emergency exit, along with the bulkhead alterations caused a significant weak spot across the bodywork at that point, and the resultant sag in frame stands out quite clearly – particularly in the offside view above. The nine Regals that retained their rear entrances remained sound until the end – which unfortunately came rather early, some going as early as 1958 and the last one in 1962. Lovely little buses.
Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer
21/10/14 – 06:19
Although allocated to the Rochdale Welfare Department this bus received what was then the current Rochdale Corporation bus fleet livery with the exception that the blue band was a lighter shade. This is interesting as when the new predominantly cream Rochdale bus livery was being introduced in the early 1960’s, two vehicles wore this lighter blue band for a very short period before the darker Oxford Blue trim as pioneered on AEC Regent V no.277 was adopted as the new standard. These were Daimler CVG6 no.238 and AEC Regal IV no.12. I seem to recall the light blue only lasted a matter of weeks on these vehicles before the Oxford Blue replaced it. At the time as a schoolboy spotter I was quite excited about this new livery but once it began to replace the streamlined blue and cream across the whole fleet I came to hate it. It was bland and totally impractical for a northern industrial town where the atmosphere in those days was mucky to say the least.
Philip Halstead
22/10/14 – 07:17
The lighter blue was worn by 12 and 238, and also on delivery by new Weymann bodied Reliances 16 – 20 (3116 – 3120 DK). It didn’t last on these, of course. The blue adopted as standard was the same shade of blue as used on the much lamented “streamlined” livery.
Don McKeown
22/10/14 – 17:59
Daimler CVG6 number 238 was always easily identifiable because the rubbers holding the destination blind glasses were painted cream whereas it was usual to mask them over during repaint so they remained black. By the way 16-20 were 2116-2120 DK.
David Slater
15/11/17 – 07:17
Re rad blankets PD2 exposed rads had a plate about one foot deep but full width. It appeared to be in the middle because that was the bottom of the cooling tubes. The lower section of the rad was a dummy. Also with the blanker fitted on the outside there was a 2 to 3 inch gap to the actual tubes which would seriously reduce the warming effect. In effect as the thermostats were pre wax type generally they failed inside a year so the engines always ran cooler than the designed temperature. Even in summer
H & E Burnham (Worcester) 1948 AEC Regal III 6821A Burlingham C33F
CFK 340 is an AEC Regal III with Burlingham C33F body from the fleet of Burnham’s of Worcester. She dates from 1948 and, in this view in Winchester on 1 January, 2012, she was in Roger Burdett’s collection. I believe that, despite the Worcester address and registration, the firm’s base was actually in Bromyard, Herefordshire, in another case of geography and the Post Office not being in agreement. Ealing might be expected to have a TW or UB postcode, as it is in the old Middlesex, but it has a London W5 mark.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
27/07/15 – 06:48
This photo has cheered me up on a very soggy Sunday morn! I’m not sure I’ve ever seen many early post-war Burlingahm bodies; this one being very traditional and attractive. To me the AEC chromed rads always look more stylish that the Leyland ones. I notice that Bromyard is equidistant from both Worcester and Hereford at 15 miles, with Bromyard about 6 miles from the county boundaries. Maybe they tended to go into Worcester more frequently/easily. Postal addresses, then postcodes, have a mystery of their own. Yateley’s in Hampshire, but postally it’s Yateley, Camberley, Surrey! I think that they were related to sorting offices, not an important distinction now. And why do folk still stick with Middx, 40-odd years after what was left of it disappeared?
Chris Hebbron
27/07/15 – 06:48
This vehicle was restored by brothers, John, and the late Alan Purvis, of Seaburn, which to the North of the river Wear, but is part of Sunderland. Although it was never part of their fleet, after restoration it was in the livery of Carney of Sunderland, it was later restored to original, but I don’t know if that was before or after it changed hands.
Ronnie Hoye
27/07/15 – 06:50
A photo of the rear of coach CFK 340 shows
H & E Burnham Ltd, Bromyard Worcestor Worcestor 3321 Bromyard 187
The H & E Burnham Ltd. being in a half circle format with Bromyard and Worcestor as above followed by the two telephone numbers.
Alan Coulson
28/07/15 – 05:55
Ronnie, It was repainted before it changed hands being part of the sale to Mr R. Smith of Hexham in Northumberland in 1990’s remaining with him till 2009 when it went to Steve Morris at Quantock Heritage at Taunton a year later it is seen in Rodger Burdetts collection in Coventry where it remains today still in original Burnhams livery.
Alan Coulson
29/07/15 – 06:21
We used to live in a small village in South Oxfordshire…. Our local post office delivery centre was part of the Central Reading Post Office area, so although we lived over 20 miles from Reading, our postal address and postcode always ended in Reading, Berkshire and bore no relation to our actual location….This also made dealing with the local South Oxfordshire District Council a bit of a hit and miss affair as more often than not they used to refer us to Reading Council whenever we asked for their help or made enquiries about services…. To this day, it causes some confusion, especially when using drop down menus on web sites….
Stuart C
29/07/15 – 08:41
The approximate date of this photo is 1980 no later than 1981 definitely is CFK 340. Not a good photo but original is ageing. Original Burnham livery from 1948 after this it is then seen in Carney livery.
Alan Coulson
10:51
A fascinating photo of ‘before’! Is this when she was rescued, Alan? Restoration was certainly a daunting task.
Chris Hebbron
29/07/15 – 10:53
Burnhams had a garage in Worcester 50/60’s corner of what is now City Walls rd & St Martins Gate. They had a school contract between Dines Green & Henwick Grove the coach I remember was also a Burlingham but had the more rounded Seagull body it was described as a two stroke.
Richard
29/07/15 – 17:24
I know John Pervis was involved in the restoration of another of Burnham’s vehicles almost identical to this one. DFK214. Pure speculation on my part, perhaps they were bought as a pair, with the hope of making one good one from what was available between the two? They both made it into preservation, and as far as I know are both still around
Ronnie Hoye
29/07/15 – 17:25
The vehicle broke piston rings at Easter and is off the road awaiting delivery of a replacement engine promised but with no confirmed date. The seats internally still have horse hair and coil springs and are exceptionally comfortable. Hopefully will be round in 2016
Roger Burdett
30/07/15 – 08:38
Chris, Yes to your question,I believe couple of panels removed to eye extent of rot. Restoration only took 8 months mainly after working hours and weekends a accolade to the Two brothers Alan & John to the extremely high standard, the refurbished coach was soon to be seen on Show/rally circuit. Reference your soggy Sunday words next time we have a day like that I will post a photo of DFK 214 another Ex.Burnhams I had this in mind to run after CFK ends of which I have more detail.
Ronnie, Both CFK 340 & DFK 214 were almost complete coaches each refurbished from own units with spares obtained from another coach. Not only bought as a pair but of 3, was another EFK 760 this was likewise almost complete. All 3 coaches were new to Burnhams. CFK 340 5/1948, a MK III C33F. DFK 214 7/1949, also a MK III C33F, EFK 760 7/1951 was a MK IV C39C. All 3 are currently in preservation.
Alan Coulson
31/07/15 – 08:34
Type DFK 214 into your search engine, and you will be directed to this site of Pervis Bros, bus restorers. On the site there are photos of several of their restorations, including one of this vehicle in the livery of Carney, standing alongside a restored DFK. There is also a photo of the two together in Burnham livery.
Ronnie Hoye
31/07/15 – 14:00
Here is a restored view now in R. W.Carney livery. 8 months on from the view in Burnhams livery prior to restoration.
Alan Coulson
01/08/15 – 06:28
Alan, for a number of years there is/was an Alexander Bluebird ‘Northern’ half cab Burlingham bodied ‘Daimler? I think, parked up in former NCT depot at Slatyford. Is that it behind CFK?
Ronnie Hoye
28/08/15 – 06:49
Burnhams were Worcester-based and had NO connection with Bromyard. A large rural stage network was sold to Midland Red in 1938 along with a Worcester- Aberystwyth express service- Burnhams then carried on as private hire operators. All this is confirmed info; what follows isn’t checked, but I seem to remember that they carried on in a small way until c1975 when everything was auctioned off – including some elderly stock which had been kept on, decaying gently a la Mulleys of Ixworth.This is presumably how CFK etc survived.
Phil Drake
01/09/15 – 07:13
Looking again carefully at the rear of the unrestored vehicle should solve the Bromyard Worcestershire discussion once and for all. It says “Bromyard AND Worcester” with no mention of a County. Thus I assume the company maintained bases in both locations.
Larry B
04/09/15 – 07:15
Ronnie. Yes you are correct well spotted. I have other similar photo’s showing more of both coaches. Without checking them my memory states it is BMS 415 if you input the reg. into a search engine there is photo of it standing alone in depot. I believe the photo of CFK/BMS may well been taking in lay-by outside Newcastle on old A1 back ground view of Town Moor with high rise flats in view. Lay by being a meeting point on way to Scottish show in 1987. Alan Coulson.
Alan Coulson
01/10/15 – 06:18
Phil Drake, I’m grateful for your comments regarding Burnhams. Having done extensive history of CFK 340,(DFK 214-EFK 760). I find the NO connection Bromyard strange as all the photo’s of Burnhams show both Worcestor and Bromyard with telephone numbers. My information is they were known to have premises in Cornmarket at Clifton on Teme, Worcestor and Rowberry Street Bromyard. I have recently seen photo of Leyland Cheetah coach with Burlingham body new to them in 1938 the year they were sold to Midland Red showing Bromyard and Worcestor. In this photo the and is in capitols. AND, in a rear view of coach.In all other photo’s the and is seen as & this is clearly seen on unrestored coach. CFK 340 was purchased in the 2nd auction 1979 from the big shed at Clifton. Any further comments are gratefully accepted. Larry B. As mentioned above my notes show company operated from both Worcestor and Bromyard. Thank you both for your comments.
Alan Coulson
07/08/17 – 06:29
I was friends with one of the sons of the company owner in the ’70s. There were a couple of retired buses in their garden in Kempsey. I believe that they were the first vehicles the firm owned and were of sentimental value. Might this be one of them?
Sam Thompson
07/08/17 – 16:12
My understanding was that the vehicles were kept long after the operator side ceased.
Roger Burdett
10/08/17 – 14:29
Sam. I would say CFK 340 may not have been one of the vehicle’s in the garden as it is known they ran earlier coaches CFK being new in 1948. From earlier in the thread I have seen a photo of a Leyland in 1938 around the time the company was split from stage services to private hire this coach was in all white livery.
Alan Coulson
12/08/17 – 07:35
Disgraced itself this week with an Autovac failure on the A46, needed a suspended tow back to base.
Roger Burdett
13/08/17 – 07:29
Commiserations, Roger!
Chris Hebbron
06/10/20 – 10:06
I have only just found this page, but I have read it all with great interest, as I well remember the former Burnham’s garage in Spring Gardens, Worcester. When I used to look through the gaps between the doors in the late 1970’s there were seven coaches laid up in there. They were two Bedford OB’s, the two Regal III’s (CFK 340 and DFK 214), and three Regal IV’s with Burlingham Seagull bodies. I have only recently found my sheet of paper where I drew out their details and positions within the garage. At the same time there was also a derelict coach standing out in the open at Bromyard, which I believe may have been either CNP 504 or 505. Any further information on that one would be welcome.
Terry Jones
06/10/20 – 17:02
A small correction to my earlier comment – CFK 340 was not one of the seven in the garage at Worcester. DFK 214 was in there, but the other half-cab was a Leyland LZ2 Cheetah, CAB 630, also with a Burlingham body, according to my notes at the time.
It would seem that the radiator wasn’t just a disguise – the accompanying comment to both photos says it was fitted with an AEC 7.7 litre engine and radiator.
Chris Hebbron
28/11/20 – 07:05
DFK 214 was last known registered BG-TP-21 in Holland see this link still in Mulleys livery.
Looking at the photo of the coach’s inside, the restoration was superbly done. For those of us of a certain age and recall vehicles like this running about when we were young, it’s amazing to think that the vehicle is 63 years old!
Chris Hebbron
17/03/21 – 16:05
DFK 214 while in Holland most photos show coach kept in Mulleys livery Red roof and front wheel guards in Red a current batch of photos show theses to be in Green can anyone state if when in Holland it was repainted in Green to its Holland owner or was it a livery change back to new owner in Uk. In recent photos it is still showing Holland registration plate maybe re-registered in UK it may be DFK 214 once again. DFK 214 was new in 7-1949 pleased to see it returned to UK in 3-2021 72 years on the road. Both CFK 340 and DFK 214 were both restored to a high standard immaculate interiors with top class exterior liveries – hopefully they will remain road worthy for a number of years yet.
Alan Coulson
18/03/21 – 06:28
It would appear that at some point it got painted from red to green in Holland. Apparently its now been sold back to UK to a buyer in Seaford. This would point to Seaford & District who have a large heritage fleet.
John Wakefield
18/03/21 – 06:30
Not gone to Seaford & District.
John Wakefield
18/03/21 – 14:58
Going to Marshopper Ltd.
John Wakefield
21/03/21 – 07:13
That’s a surprise-do they know what they are letting themselves in for?
Devon General Omnibus & Touring Co Ltd – Grey Cars 1950 AEC Regal III 9621A Duple C32F
Pictured on the A23 during an HCVC London – Brighton run in the 1970s is LTA 629, an AEC Regal III 9621A (sliding mesh gearbox) with a Duple C32F body that was delivered to the Devon General Grey Cars fleet in 1950. Though the livery it has here is not the maroon and grey it wore as fleet no. TCR 629 of Grey Cars. The rear underside of the bodywork is raised to avoid it fouling the ramps of ferries. This coach has since been repainted into its original guise:- It can be seen here. In the above picture it is seen overtaking M 7287, the 1915 Foden steam wagon no.5218 that rejoices in the name “Gwennie Willan”.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
17/01/16 – 10:53
This coach was withdrawn by Grey Cars (Devon General’s coaching fleet) in 1958, along with its sister vehicles in the batch LTA 623-634. The whole batch was sold to Greenslades Tours of Exeter, a previously independent company that had become a BET associated company in 1953. The livery it is carrying in this photograph is that of Greenslades.
Petras409
17/01/16 – 10:54
The modified rear end was to clear ferry ramps at both Torpoint and Dartmouth. The Greenslades livery shown here is quite authentic, as many Grey Cars coaches were transferred to that company, like Devon General a BET concern, towards the ends of their lives. The batch of 12 coaches of which this is one were all withdrawn after only eight years with Grey Cars and all went to Greenslades.
David Chapman
17/01/16 – 12:57
LTA 629 appeared on the Brighton Rally in 1968 whilst owned by Colin Shears, then was there again in 1973 having just recently been bought by Dave Sayer of the Mersey & Calder Bus Preservation Group, accompanied by two other vehicles from the group – I know because I was there with them ! The combination of 9.6 engine and crash gearbox produced possibly the best ever variation of the AEC Sound in my opinion, and though it later looked mighty fine restored to the Grey Cars livery I always thought that it looked superb in Greenslades livery too. The AEC crash gearbox took a bit of getting used to initially if you had only experienced the slower Leyland PD1. Bristol or Guy as it was a surprisingly quick change, but once mastered it was a joy to drive.
John Stringer
18/01/16 – 10:42
In the 70s did it have the lower ratio diff i.e. lower top speed? I think when it as in the ownership of Colin Cowdrey in recent years I seem to recall him saying 37/38 was top speed which is less than my 2 Regals where 42/43 is a comfortable cruising speed.
Roger Burdett
20/01/16 – 14:24
I certainly seem to recall that this Regal was capable of more then 37/38 mph on the few occasions I drove it. I will ask Dave Sayer next time I see him.
John Stringer
22/01/16 – 06:12
LTA 629 along with Leyland GDM 494 have now both passed to Nick Szkiler t/a The Classic & Sports Car Centre, West Knapton, formally Grundy Mack.
