Bevan Brothers of Soudley 1950 AEC Regal III 9621A Harrington FC33F
Bevan Brothers of Soudley (also known as Soudley Valley Coaches) seem to have had an interesting fleet. KDD 38 is an AEC Regal III of the 9621A variety and it has Harrington FC33F body, complete with the famous dorsal fin. The first view shows it is passing Hound Church on its way to the Netley rally on 10 July 1988. In the second view, it in the Southsea rally on 8 June 1986.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
Frank Osborne
I am sure that this is one of the buses used by Bevans bus company for the school runs to Lydney boys and girls secondary schools. Pupils picked up from the districts of Sedbury Beachley Tutshill and so on. I was picked up in Netherend by the shop opposite our house on the corner. Another of the Bevans fleet I am pretty sure was a Leyland Comet. This would have been the 1960`s when I was at school. Happy days!
Midland General Omnibus Company 1949 AEC Regal III 9621E Weymann DP35F
A classic combination of AEC Regal III and Weymann body. Chassis number 9621E481 was combined with a 35-seat front-entrance Weymann body, M4122, and appropriate seating to allow dual-purpose use. Worthy of note is the ‘MGO’ badge replacing the more usual AEC triangle and also the additional chrome-work of which Midland General were so fond. For me, the blue and cream livery was enhanced by this additional, but tasteful adornment. This superb vehicle was caught at Showbus 2016.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson
03/11/16 – 07:11
This Regal was one of a batch of twelve 174-185 with Midland General all of which were transferred from Mansfield & District in 1958. So it would have originally been in a Green and Cream livery and may of had a MDT badge on the grill and was fleet number 9, not sure if the chrome work is original or added by Midland General at a later date.
M A
03/11/16 – 14:49
There were some Leyland PS1s with similar bodywork placed in service by Crosville Motor Services which were diverted from Midland General. They have the same style of chrome work and more of it on the side panels. Photographs to compare may be seen on the SCT’61 website: //www.sct61.org.uk/index/operator/cv Photo 30 shows preserved LFM 302. Photo 31 of LFM 303 in quite a battered state after Crosville had sold it to a contractor.
David Slater
08/11/16 – 16:12
Mention is made of the MGO radiator badge in the picture of KRR 255. I attach an image of such a badge, as the picture does not show it off very well.
Smiths Luxury Coaches (Reading) Ltd 1940 AEC Regal I Alexander FC35F
This shot is from the Ray Soper gallery contribution titled “Smith’s Luxury Coaches of Reading” click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments. The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.
18/10/11 – 05:43
A historic item about Alexander`s that seems to have been missed on all accounts. In 1947, Central SMT acquired 50 PD1A chassis and they went to Alexander for bodying. Alexander were trying out a new system of riveting body panels together instead of welding. Unfortunately, this was unsuccessful, and this caused a delay. 25 of the chassis stayed with Alexander and the rest were sent to Northern Counties. Central`s first batch of All Leyland PD2s came into service in Spring 1948, and the PD1As didn’t come into service until 1949. The Alexander bodies were similar to the preserved Ribble TD5.
Jim Hepburn
28/12/11 – 07:28
Does anyone know the current whereabouts of Ron shacks old motor JRD 990 AEC it was at one time kept at Sandtoft but is thought to be back down Reading way. I would love to find it and also would like to know if any other Ex Smiths Coaches/Buses still exist. There has to be something left, Doesn’t there? Thanks for any help and advice.
Paul Avenell
04/10/12 – 07:25
A partial fleet history of Smith’s which can be accessed on the internet gives a construction date of 1948, which is consistent with the registration. Also says converted to full-front in 1958 – by Smiths? The said fleet history – and Ray Soper’s gallery – quote the vehicle as having been acquired from Comrose in 1958 – who were they? I don’t recognise the name as that of a one-time coach operator. I certainly don’t recognise it as being that of a one-time Lancashire-based coach operator, and it carries a Lancashire registration – so who had the vehicle from new? All questions, no answers this time I’m afraid.
David Call
04/10/12 – 18:06
Fortunately the PSVC are currently publishing details of buses with Lancashire registrations in their Journal, so we have their history of HTJ 857: AEC Regal I / Trans-United C33F, new 12/47 to Florence Motors, Morecambe. To Corvedale MS, Ludlow, 1950; Skylark, Salisbury, 12/52; Twist, Virginia Water, c8/55. Then it’s reported as going at an unknown date to Conrose Coaches, whom the PSVC haven’t been able to identify but they speculate that they may have been the same operator as Twist. Then to Smiths in 6/58 and rebodied with a 1936 Alexander FC35F body from a Leyland Cheetah, probably WS 8001 or WS 8039. Withdrawn by Smiths in 8/64 and to Fields (Reading) Ltd as a non-PSV, last licensed 7/66.
Provincial (Gosport & Fareham Omnibus Co) 1931 AEC Regal I Reading FB35F
The Regent in the above shot was on the Crossley Omnibus Society Grand Southern tour and here it can be seen at the Provincial bus depot parked next to their number 66. Provincial had a tendency to get their monies worth out of the vehicles they owned and 66 was no exception. The vehicle was purchased from Timpsons of London in 1949 with the original registration of GN 7271, on arrival at Provincial it was immediately fitted with an AEC 7·7 litre diesel engine, rebodied with a Reading half canopy C32R body and reregistered as GOU 449. Ten years later it was rebodied again with the one in the shot above which was a Reading FB35F, it served a further 11 years at Provincial before being sold for scrap in 1970. This vehicle must be fairly high on the list of “longest serving vehicles” at 39 years. When David sent me this shot he said it was scanned from a very dark slide and he would understand if I did not use it, I think it would be a waste not to, especially a colour one and anyway David if you want to see a shot that should not be used click here.
Photograph contributed by David Beilby
Bus tickets issued by this operator can be viewed here.
09/02/11 – 05:48
It’s a bit like the old story of Paddy’s brush – or Caesar’s original penknife isn’t it? Nearly everything has been replaced, but there is still a clear historical trail that says it is still the original! I do not say this in any sense of criticism – I grew up in Barton’s territory, and beneath some of their shiny “new” vehicles (well, bodies anyway) you could discover mechanical antiques continuing to serve their original purpose perfectly satisfactorily.
Stephen Ford
01/07/11 – 06:15
Further photos of this vehicle with its original Reading coach body, plus what it might have looked like with Timpson can be found on the AEC Regal page at: //www.regent8.co.uk/ click on rotating arrow
Stephen Didymus
01/07/11 – 09:22
As Stephen rightly says at one time there were many fascinating “enigmas on wheels” giving splendid service for incredible lengths of time. Perhaps the most spectacular that I ever actually worked on was Samuel Ledgard’s magnificent Burlingham bodied AEC Regal – it was a Birmingham Corporation Regent 1 of 1930, but how many happy day trippers to the seaside could possibly have imagined that?? It had been rebuilt by Don Everall of Wolverhampton – a Corgi model of it exists, but with a Duple body instead of the correct Burlingham, and the registration FWJ 938 – should be FJW – but a lovely model nevertheless.
Chris, the same could be said of the coach just visible behind 66. It is either 68 (OCG 444) or 69 (PCG 436)both of which were chassis that started life as City Of Oxford Regents in 1932, and acquired as such by Provincial in 1940. 68 was originally 22 (JO 5406), whilst 69 was rebuilt from a combination of 20/21 (JO 5404/5). Both were given Reading coach bodies in 1955/56 and survived until early 1969.
Stephen Didymus
02/07/11 – 12:07
Sorry for digressing slightly but FJW 938 seems doubly strange because it is pre-war, with a Regent (or Regal) II radiator and front wings and a Mk III bonnet!
Chris Barker
02/07/11 – 16:24
It’s a shame that virtually no information is immediately available about Reading and the other Portsmouth bodybuilder, Portsmouth Aviation.
Chris Hebbron
03/07/11 – 05:54
Thanks Chris H and Chris B – the bonnet and radiator are indeed fascinating features too – I wonder where they originated ?? – not from the shelves of a dealer in new parts I’ll be bound !! As the old darling is displaying “Otley” on the destination blind it has obviously recently carried “stage carriage” passengers in style and acoustic delight at absolutely no extra charge !!
Chris Youhill
03/07/11 – 20:40
Chris H: David Whitaker has written an excellent book on Readings the Portsmouth coachbuilders. Titled “Reading First & Last”, it is available from the Provincial Society website. In addition to many bus photos of Provincial, Portsmouth, and Channel Island vehicles, there are also a considerable number of lorries, ambulances and ice cream vans.
Potteries Motor Traction 1946 AEC Regal I Brush B34F
This shot shows PMT S315 an AEC Regal I about to be towed away from Milton Depot for preservation by Hollis of Queensferry ex Western Welsh Leyland Royal Tiger FUH 424 on 10th October 1970 – wonder what happened to it? The engineless vehicle had been in use as a canteen/mess room inside the depot for a number of years until modernisation came in the form of a block work structure in its place. The large protuberances on the roof are mains light fittings used in its mess room role. The bus looks remarkably intact although obviously would be short of some interior fittings.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
17/07/11 – 12:24
A most interesting vehicle – the removal of the awful “domestic wheel spats” and the restoration of the rear mudguards would be quite a useful start in its restoration.
Chris Youhill
17/07/11 – 12:29
Strange how unattractive the vehicle looks with ‘spats’ over the rear wheels. Were they an original feature, or an attempt to fool the mess’s customers into thinking it really wasn’t a bus at all! Where is/was Milton Depot? Funny thing about streamlining in general. IMHO, the LNER’s A4’s always looked superb with streamlining, but better without the their spats. Bulleid’s Southern Railway Battle of Britain and sister classes always looked much better after they were rebuilt as ‘proper’ steam engines! But I digress!
Chris Hebbron
17/07/11 – 18:30
Definitely not original Chris – notice how the bus is now fitted with only an inner single rear wheel each side. The new “spats” are built in with beading and there are no release catches to be seen. The routine changing of wheels would have been made impossible with such fittings, and the sooner they’re removed – maybe already have been by now – the better eh??
Chris Youhill
18/07/11 – 07:25
The rear wheel covers were definitely fitted when it became a static mess room. Milton Depot was on the northern side of Stoke on Trent, on the A5009 near its junction with the A53 Leek Road. It’s over forty years now since the bus was taken for preservation – I have never seen any reference to it since so I assume it has been scrapped – unless someone knows differently?
Ian Wild
18/07/11 – 11:35
Just a note to point out this bus is fitted with the pre-war style bonnet, radiator and front wings, so would be a Regal rather than the Regal mk.III that was introduced for the home market around 1947/8.
Eric
Thanks Eric I have corrected it, my mistake.
Peter
19/07/11 – 17:01
The “Surviving Single-Deck Halfcab Buses & Coaches” website gives this entry:- Potteries S363 > S315 (in 1953), Regal {O6624981} / Brush B34F, 1946, KEH 608, Tom Hollis, Queensferry, N.Wales. Sold by 1992. Scrapped?
I think that we should fear the worst.
Roger Cox
21/07/11 – 07:34
I’ve been trying to find a little more information about the batch that this was from because I have a good memory for registrations and I remembered that Silver Service of Darley Dale had one. I have been unable to find a PMT fleet list anywhere so all I had to go on were old copies of Buses Illustrated for 1961. Silver Service bought KEH 602 in 4/61, KEH 603 and KEH 609 were reported withdrawn in 4/61 and KEH 600 went to Eagre (contractor) Scunthorpe in 7/61. The interesting thing is, all of these are recorded as having been lengthened to 30ft and having had Weymann 39 seat bodies fitted. The vehicle above, KEH 608 is correctly reported as being a mess room at Milton depot but no mention of the body. Does anyone know if this was the only one of the batch not to be lengthened and retain it’s original body?
Chris Barker
From the fleet history 2PD1 (price 10/6!) it shows that S306/7/14 were lengthened to 30 foot and re-seated. S309/10/2/6 had the chassis lengthened and were fitted with Weymann B39F bodies. This left S305/8/11/3/5 in original condition. I won’t attempt to go into any more detail as the fleet history of PMT is far too complicated and I’ll end up tied in knots. It was a fascinating fleet!
David Beilby
25/07/11 – 08:54
The engineering feats accomplished by PMT make the fleet history somewhat complicated. There is a fleet list (to 1977) within Geoffrey Smith’s 1977 history of the company, and the text explains to some extent (without identifying exactly which bus got what outcome). Unfortunately his 2011 book does not attempt to repeat/update this. From the 1977 publication – KEH 598 – 609 (AEC Regal / Brush B34F) were delivered in 1946 as fleet number 353-364, re-numbered in the post-1951 scheme to S305-316. Between 1952-55 there was a re-bodying programme Four of the batch received 1949 Weymann bodies (lengthened to 30ft) that had been new on a batch of Leyland OPD2 chassis (yes, single deck PD2s) which in turn received either new Northern Counties double deck bodies, or 1951 NC double deck bodies that had been fitted to pre-war Leyland TD4s. Another five of the batch had their Brush bodies lengthened to 30 ft. This suggests that only three of the batch retained their original bodies unmodified. This contradicts what’s been quoted from the fleet history above. However, the 1977 book includes a photo of S313 in lengthened form. The one pictured above also looks lengthened – the original body style did not have 5 full length windows. The Milton garage was originally owned by the Milton Bus Company, which was taken over by PMT in 1951. Milton closed in 1980 as part of the ‘MAP’ retrenchment. The building seems to have been quite basic. Photos of past PMT garages including Milton can be seen on the Stoke Museums website here. The land around Milton Garage was occasionally used as a parking area for withdrawn vehicles, e.g. those taken over from independents and not used.
Jon
17/03/13 – 15:45
The Milton Regal was stretched. The fleet number had an 8 in a circle. I visited the Hollis collection to do an inventory soon after he acquired the Regal, sadly it had been kept in open storage on a old colliery and had been heavily vandalised and had been scrapped.
Margo’s of Thornton Heath 1937 AEC Regal I Harrington C33F
This picture, taken in 1960 or 1961, shows an AEC Regal of either late pre-war or early post-war vintage – the mechanical specification was virtually identical – with a straight stepped waistrail body of unknown (to me) manufacture. I would suspect that the chassis is of the usual 7.7/crash gearbox variety, but the front wing treatment is not of standard AEC pattern of the period. The number CPK 168 is a Surrey registration, and, when photographed, the coach was being operated by the once well known (certainly to the Traffic Commissioners!) firm of Margo’s of Thornton Heath, in whose Zion Place premises it is seen. Can our Forum experts supply more information?
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
29/08/11 – 08:00
Gut reaction – a pre war Harrington. Those odd flat plates in front of the wings I suspect is an operator addition.
David Oldfield
29/08/11 – 08:01
An observation… do you notice how the lack of a canopy gives you nowhere to put the wing mirror- it is, I imagine, that tiny thing on the wing…
Joe
29/08/11 – 08:02
The bodywork I am certain is by Harrington. It bears a very strong resemblance to some supplied to North Western on Leyland Tigers in the 1934-1937 period. Some of these were rebodied by Windover in 1950 and now I’m wondering if any of the original bodies were sold on for further use. Pure speculation of course, I don’t even know if this vehicle has its original body or not but although the mouldings are slightly different at the rear from the North Western ones, it is a faint possibility. The front wing treatment is obviously nothing to do with AEC, but an attempt to give a more up to date look, in fact, if the vertical part wasn’t so deep, it could almost be mistaken for a Regal III!
Chris Barker
29/08/11 – 11:07
Having had relations in nearby Streatham I have many vivid memories of seeing the Margo’s fleet in early postwar years – I have to say that the little quip about them being well known “to the Traffic Commissioners” comes as no surprise if casual observations are anything to go by !! By the way Joe, I know it takes some believing but nearside mirrors were not legally necessary until a date which just escapes me, but well after WW2. I just can’t imagine how anyone managed to avoid a “crushing” nearside accident for even an hour let alone day after day, and I certainly wouldn’t have liked it.
Chris Youhill
29/08/11 – 16:07
Certainly in later years, Surrey Motors of Sutton were a consistent AEC/Harrington operator. Could it have originated with them?
Mike Grant
29/08/11 – 16:09
Chris- when you consider that there were then probably more bikes on the road, you had little way of telling who was coming up the inside- and on this photo but not pre mid fifties, no trafficator either. Your jacket may have had a white patch on the right arm for you to stick your arm out of the little window whilst getting 7 tons+ on to unassisted full lock…. but telling people on your nearside that you were turning left…? Perhaps that’s what conductors were for…?!
Joe
I do concur with the view that this is a Harrington body – the cab design in particular does have the look of that coachbuilder. I went to school in neighbouring Selhurst, and I often saw the Margo fleet, including this Regal, round and about in the area. Later, I used to pop round to the Margo yard to see what they had acquired, and it was on such a trip that I luckily managed to get this photo. Often the gates would be shut and barred, probably to keep the Traffic Commissioner’s inspectors out as much as the general public. The transport press back in the 1960s and 70s regularly gave hilarious accounts of the skirmishes between Margo and the authorities. The excuses for the absence of drivers’ hours and fleet maintenance records always fell into the “dog ate my homework” category. Later, Margo rebranded as International Coach Lines, and bought a number of the early Bristol VRL double deck coaches. Chris’s point about nearside wing mirrors is correct. Even when they became obligatory some buses, including, surprisingly, those of London Transport, had miniscule postage stamp sized efforts on the nearside.
Roger Cox
30/08/11 – 08:07
That was a good idea about Surrey Motors: yes, it was their no 15, new in August 1937 and sold in May 1955 and it was indeed a Harrington body.
Michael Wadman
30/08/11 – 19:21
Many thanks for that information, Michael. I often saw the smart AEC Regals of Surrey Motors in their primrose/brown livery during my schooldays in the Croydon area, and I did wonder if CPK 168 originated with them, but couldn’t find out much about the fleet history. I am surprised that this coach dated from as long ago as 1937, and it is a tribute to the quality of AECs and Harringtons of that period that it was still around in the early 1960s. In fact, given the standard of mechanical care meted out by Margo, its survival was little short of miraculous. Sadly, the Surrey Motors concern was taken over by Epsom Coaches (H. R. Richmond) in 1980. Tempora mutantur.
Roger Cox
01/09/11 – 07:42
Strictly speaking, Epsom Coaches only acquired the licences of Surrey Motors, not the business itself. Surrey Motors Limited also owned property and this became the primary concern after 1980. The original company (incorporated Feb 17th 1919) still exists as a subsidiary of the Stock Exchange quoted property company Panther Securities PLC but the only (and very tenuous) connection nowadays with the PSV world is that one of the shareholders in Panther also has shares in a number of bus companies.
Nigel Turner
Re Surrey Motors. I see two of their preserved vehicles every year at the Goodwood (Motor) Circuit Revival Meeting. Pictures are here at this link. I’m certain that you know these coaches well but they will remind readers of the livery. Both are in splendid condition.
Richard Leaman
06/09/11 – 07:28
Michael has dated the coach CPK 168 to 1937, but my records for it show it in fact to have been 2 years older, so new in 1935. It was one of four such coaches delivered to Surrey Motors that year, with fleet numbers 13-16, and registered CPH 624/5 and CPK 168/9. Dates I have are 5/35 for the CPH pair, 7/35 for the CPK ones, and these are shown as such in the list of pre-war AEC Regal chassis published in 2010 by the PSV Circle (publication C1131). The earlier dates also match with Surrey registration issues – during 1937 they had gone on to issue all the F multiples (FPA to FPL) and moved on as far as GPC. The Margo story is quite a complex one and starts with the activities of Nathan and Rose Margo who by 1920 had founded the business that was later to become Bexleyheath Transport. Several other members of the family ran other businesses later – I have some notes on the subject which I will look out and provide a summary during the next few days.
Derek Jones
28/10/11 – 14:40
Margos acquired the vehicle from Simpson of Penge in November 1960 who purchased it from Surrey Motors in May 1955. I believe it was finally withdrawn and scrapped in December 1961
Graham Wright
29/10/11 – 12:26
Was it not Margos who ordered a large batch of Bristol LH/Plaxton coaches and then cancelled them when they were built? I drove DWT 641H at Stanley Gath Coaches of Dewsbury and I recall that Moxons at Oldcoates had DWT 643H.
Philip Carlton
30/10/11 – 14:51
It may also be of interest that in February 1948 Surrey Motors sent CPK 168 to Watson & sons, Lowestoft for a complete body overhaul also adding one seat to become C33F. Further refurbishment was carried out by Harringtons in 1951. The vehicle was converted to diesel (probably 7.7 litre) by AEC in 1953. Articles about Surrey Motors of Sutton can be found in Buses Extra Nos 2 & 22 if that helps.
Graham Wright
02/11/11 – 16:10
The Margo story is worthy of a book on it’s own. I worked for Atlas Coaches of Edgware run by Michael Margo and his cousin Tony Plaskow. Michael was Cyril’s son who I believe was really called Isadore. Isadore and Gerald were the executors to Nathan’s will when he died in 1959. Louis (Lou) Margo owned Margos of Streatham, later renamed International Coachlines. He was assisted by his sons Nigel and Dudley. Bernard and Gerald Margo ran Bexleyheath Transport and I understand that Sally Margo operated as Paynes of Croydon. I am still in contact with Ronnie Dalton who still operates from the Nursery Road premises as International Coaches and worked for the Margo family for many years. There was also Malcolm Margo, these days known as Malcolm Morris with transport interests in the Channel Islands and another brother who I cannot recall who briefly worked as Transport Manager for Kirby’s of Bushey Heath in the 1970’s.
Chris Sullivan
10/01/12 – 07:27
It was Alan Margo who worked for Kirbys. Bernard is his brother and their father was Charlie Margo who owned Margos of Penge. Alan and Bernard ran that company with their dad and later became known as Europa Coaches of Penge
Ronnie Dalton
04/07/12 – 05:21
Margos of Thorton Heath? that brings back old memories like when I was driving out of Merton for London Transport during a 60,s overtime ban a few of us went to Margo,s at Thorton Heath with the intention of recouping some of our lost earnings (from OT). My mates made a B line for the AEC Regents (preselect versions) I was too slow and got left with an ex Eastern Counties high bridge Bristol K to operate a school shuttle to swimming baths in Chelsea. I made my way there via Streatham and I shall never forget the cheering and clapping from the crews and inspectors outside A K garage as I made a pigs ear of the gear changes, thank God I mastered it by the time I got to Chelsea.
Depot
15/07/12 – 17:17
Apart from Margo’s I remember (rather have dragged up memories from my schooldays over 60 years ago, 1948) Timpsons, Bourne & Balmer (Taken over by Timpsons) and much more ephemeral, Omnia coaches of Holmesdale Road Bromley. (grey matter now in gear), in particular not in own dark green were 2 ex LT (LTL) single deckers (Scooters) still in red with no signwriting petrol (still) used on schools work GO xxxx series from 1929-31. Can find little info on the latter company and even less photos (nil). I think (only think) they were taken over by Metrobus of Orpington.
Steve Oxbrow
06/10/12 – 07:36
This vehicle was used in the mid 1930s to show a device that if fitted to the front wheels would stop a person been crushed. A few still images from a short film of the time can be seen at this link
Philip Howard
07/10/12 – 08:29
Thanks, Philip, and thanks also to Chris H who has put a link on Flikr to this site. Interestingly, the picture shows the Regal with its original Harrington front wing arrangement.
Roger Cox
11/12/12 – 10:01
Re comment 2/11/11 Paynes Coaches was owned and operated by Jack Payne from 1 Kemble Road Croydon packing up in the early 70s, and next door to him at number 3 was Taffy Thomas who ran just the one coach, the last being a Ford Plaxton 52 seater which he sold in November 1975.
Michael W
29/01/13 – 18:01
Margos provided a school coach from Mackenzie Road in Beckenham (just down the hill from their base) to Bromley Technical High School near Keston. I used it from 1960 to 1965 at 12/6d per term. My Mum would make me eat porridge in the mornings and what with being bounced around on the journey and the smell of the pig farm alongside the school, made for some interesting mornings! The driver was a Mr Farminer who would make sure we all sat in our allotted seats. On occasions a smaller coach would arrive and there would be a bun fight for the fewer seats. Inevitably there would be 3 of us on a double seat and 6 across the back. The best bit was sucking Jubbly’s on the way home in the summer!!
Terry Hammond
24/02/13 – 08:21
My Father and Mother started the business known as Margo’s Coaches Streatham soon after their marriage in 1945, shortly after they purchased some land in Thornton Heath to garage the coaches. The main stay of the business was Workmen contracts School runs and Private hire. I joined the business straight after leaving school at the age of 14 when we expanded the business providing coaches for the incoming tourist trade, working with companies like Thomas Cook, Globus Gateway and Miki Travel. During the period that I was managing director we had a number of related subsidiaries: South London Bus Company Trans World Coaches ltd Margo’s Luxury Coaches Streatham Ltd International Coach Lines Ltd Trans World Coaches Ltd was sold to Trafalgar Tours International in 1981 at which time I severed all my connection with the business.
No name given
30/09/13 – 08:00
I met Malcolm Margo in 1990 where he replied to one of my advertisements. Here began a long friendship. From memory his brother Michael was the only member of the family operating coaches out of South London. Malcolm and his cousins by then had pulled out of operating coaches. By contrast Malcolm took more interest in buying, selling, swapping coaches, cars, trucks sometimes under hilarious circumstances. In later years he enjoyed Guernsey where he carried on trading. Unforgettable character.
Anon
20/03/15 – 09:21
Malcolm Margo/Morris legend lives on in West Africa. Bus operation, Trucking, Taxis, petrol stations. One of his apprentices. Readers you would never understand and I don’t want you too! A good man that taught me a lot. Never understood! Margo coaches in West Africa Not quite under a different guise….Anon too much history.
John
07/08/18 – 06:16
I am surprised there is no mention of Margo’s Coaches located next to Brentford railway station. They were certainly there from 1966 to 1972. Their coaches four front wheels (singles) and the usual twins at the rear. The coach colour was an attractive redish brown. One of the Margo family was with me on National Service in the RAF in 1954 – 1956.
Colin Hodgson
08/08/18 – 06:03
Colin those would be Bedford VAls like this one which had been moved on, when photographed, to Blaydonian. //www.sct61.org.uk/zzvyt430g
John Lomas
28/05/20 – 07:18
When I was a lad of around 14 I worked at the Thornton Heath yard cleaning busses for the grand sum of one pound a week! If I remember they had the old Summer Holliday RT. Which eventually was sold without the front of its roof. This was removed to replace another that had low bridge damage. I was given by one of the mechanics, the AEC badge from its gearbox. Now, if the company is still running, you still owe me around four weeks wages!
Roger Josling
29/05/20 – 06:49
You’re right, Roger. They had RT316 from November 1963 to March 1966, when it went for scrap. They also had RT320 for much the same period. However, RT400 lasted from 1963 until 1969.
Chris Hebbron
24/01/21 – 06:30
I remember at least 2 of the RTs that were in Summer Holiday. It was painted grey I think and the other was red as in the film. The RTs in the film were RT2305, RT2366 and RT4326.
Dave Jell
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
18/08/21 – 06:02
I recently learnt of Ronnie Dalton passing. Probably a year or so out of date. A coach operator legend with pedigree. The Thornton Heath Depot a much smaller place without him. Steven has no doubt taken charge.
Provincial (Gosport & Fareham Omnibus Co) 1943 AEC Regal I/Regent I Reading H??/??R
Doubt exists about the vehicle chassis type, but here is the story as of now. In 1943, Mr Orme-White carried out his first (of many) vehicle re-constructions, involving an AEC Regal I (although recent research suggests it was a Regent I chassis), purchased from the War Department with the registration DK 7791. The original source of the chassis is unknown. Provincial re-conditioned the chassis, fitted a 7.7 litre AEC engine and got Reading’s of Portsmouth to body it. It was their first double deck offering, of utility specification and painted wartime grey. It was also re-registered EHO 282 and numbered 15. In 1952, it was rebuilt again by Reading and lasted in service until 1959. Its body was then donated to number 12 (FHO 604) and the chassis scrapped. What is interesting is that a small and almost unknown bodybuilder was given permission to build an austerity body and it might well have been its sole effort. The year of build was after the initial austerity bodies had been built on “unfrozen” chassis, but before full-scale austerity bodybuilding had got underway. Did Reading come up with its own design or use someone else’s austerity plans? If the latter, the question is whose does it resemble?
Photograph Reading Coachworks (from the website below). Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron using material by Ray Tull and Stewart Brett from the website //www.regent8.co.uk/regents.htm
08/09/11 – 14:27
What clue is there in the fuel pump on the bulkhead?
Joe
08/09/11 – 14:28
Probably of no significance at all, but the next registration to the original donor vehicle, DK 7792, was a Regal supplied to Yelloway in 1932.
Stephen Ford
08/09/11 – 14:29
The DK registration on the chassis was a Rochdale area plate.
Roger Broughton
08/09/11 – 14:30
Looks like a semi-floating hub at the back, so can’t be later than 1932. And what a well-proportioned body!
Ian Thompson
I lived in the Gosport area as a child from 1949 to 1952, and well remember the Provincial (Gosport & Fareham) Regents. These initially puzzled me as their sound was so unlike the London Transport AECs that I recalled as a very small boy from 1946, when I lived in Selsdon, Croydon. I personally much preferred the Guy/Park Royal bodied Guy Arab IIIs that served the Alverstoke and Haslar Route 11 on which I lived, and the Arab III is still one of my favourite bus types. It is now thought that EHO 282 was a Regent. The Regal had a longer wheelbase than the double deck chassis. The photo indicates that the proportions of the bus are in keeping with those of a Regent, whereas a double deck body on a Regal would have necessitated a short length behind the rear axle to keep within the 26ft overall length limit of the time.
Roger Cox
10/09/11 – 07:42
One thing I didn’t mention originally was the bespoke double destination blind boxes, a Provincial’ feature, even then. All extra work in austerity times. And are they safety rails high up on the upper-deck front windows? They don’t look like vents or the like. It looks as if there’s a Regal/Regent badge on the radiator grill itself – pity it’s illegible. Thx for the additional comments which have shed some more light on this intriguing bus. And I think most of us echo Roger’s comment about proportion – austerity bus bodies have a charm of their own.
Chris Hebbron
10/09/11 – 07:43
And Roger could that also be the explanation as to why the Leon Lion had a centre entrance utility body fitted?
Chris Barker
11/09/11 – 08:18
I think that you have hit on the answer about the Leon Lion, Chris. Photos can be a bit misleading sometimes, but the picture of the Lion does seem to show that the rear wheel is located directly under the rearmost but one window on this five bay body. The centre bay is decidedly wider than the rest, so that all the other bays are obviously of pretty short length, and the rear axle seems to be located well to the rear of the bus. A centre or front entrance would have been the best solution in the circumstances.
Roger Cox
17/04/12 – 14:18
The original post mentions Mr Orme-White. I’ve no idea how true it is, but I have been told that Mr White of the Provincial Tramways group (Gosport and Fareham, Portsdown & Horndean among others) was the same Mr White of White’s Removals, and this is the reason behind the removal company’s “sponsorship” of some trams under restoration in the Portsmouth area.
Pete Davies
11/07/12 – 18:39
I contacted White & Co. (Removals) of Portsmouth, Pete, and, after a period of silence, while the family tree was being consulted, they’ve advised me that there seems to be no connexion between H Orme-White and their family.
Chris Hebbron
12/07/12 – 19:29
Now there`s a name to savour! This was a fleet just made for enthusiasts, and my early experiences of being a bus enthusiast are saturated with the delights of this wonderful fleet. I am just amazed that it does not enter these columns on a more regular basis. I remember they had an AEC “Mandator” petrol tanker rebodied as a bus, and have often been tempted to join the Provincial Society, but one cannot be “in everything” Mention of Mr Orme White reminds me that the family were connected with the Imperial Tramways group, who had interests in Grimsby, Middlesbrough, and , pre Sir Clifton Robinson, with one of my favourite tram fleets, the London United! I think they also had connections with the ill-fated Mid Yorkshire Tramways too. Lets have more Provincial content, and, in the meantime, may I recommend those who are able, to make the journey to Crich, where LUT No.159 is about to be unveiled after a beautiful restoration to its pre-Underground Group condition. As a TMS member, I do have an axe to grind, but it really is a wonderful expression of the art of vintage vehicle restoration, under the professional care of the TMS staff, and the “LCC Tramways Trust”. Sorry to go all “trammy”….it won`t happen again!
John Whitaker
John W is right to applaud the Orme-White family and their link with some great companies such as London United Tramways and the Provincial Tramways Group. I believe the Gosport & Fareham Bus Company running under the name Provincial started in 1929 and replaced the trams. By 1936 they had bought several AEC Regents with Park Royal bodies. Some of these buses were still running in 1963 when I visited Gosport. I rode on one of these buses and this experience was magic, as the sound from the AEC crash gearbox was something never to be forgotten. The Provincial Company had some very interesting buses and hopefully someone has some photos to post on this web site.
Richard Fieldhouse
14/07/12 – 07:48
I probably feel about LUT’s ‘Diddlers’ the way John W feels about LUT’s trams. YouTube has a couple of short films about ‘Diddlers’ on their inauguration day in May 1931, but there are several antiquated (albeit covered-top) LUT trams putting in an appearance, too. It’s wonderful to see that long-gone world, 88 years ago. Little traffic, an open-top NS bus, steam roller, conductor punching tickets, driver’s white summer coat, evocative soundtrack…I feel the eyes watering now! Enjoy HERE: www.youtube.com
Chris Hebbron
14/07/12 – 10:56
I too, Chris, am captivated by that era of summer coats for drivers, with the odd steam roller about! I don`t quite remember it, but it is of extra fascination because it is close, but not quite akin to our earliest memories. I have always been fascinated by history, especially from the early 19C., when I like to imagine myself involved at the time of my (other hobby) family history characters! I regard the Diddlers as part of the LUT story, and, as such, they have an appeal of their own. I do not think they were particularly attractive vehicles, but that is of no consequence; they were very much an “in house” product of the Underground Group, built “in house” by UCC, and were not intended, design wise, to appeal to the general transport “market”, but more intended to resemble the “Feltham” trams. This whole period of tram to trolleybus conversion, and the early days of London Transport provides enough material for years and years of OBP correspondence! I should have mentioned earlier, that the White family, George White in LUT days, were also involved in the early days of Bristol Tramways, which had Imperial Group connections too.
John Whitaker
14/07/12 – 18:04
I shall look forward to seeing LUT’s 159 at my next visit to Crich, John. It must have been a huge task to recreate all that top deck ‘cast-iron’ alone. At the other end of the spectrum, I have a soft spot for Feltham MET 331, looking much sleeker and stylish than its mainstream cousins. I hold no special brief for London Transport, but what it achieved from its 1933 creation to 1940 was amazing….with sliderules, but without computers!
Here is a pair of poor photos taken in Great Yarmouth in August 1958. As a London Transport spotter predominantly, I was excited to note the registration GK 3172 on a cream and green AEC coach under the Bickers title – it had to be an ex-London bus! I guessed it could be an ST, STL or T. Inspecting the dumb-irons was the easy way for those in the know, and there was indeed the brass plate on the right hand iron but the left hand one which would have given me the fleet number had been removed. Later I found that it was formerly T 300 which had been delivered in 1931 and withdrawn in 1938, bought by Arlington Motors, Vauxhall Bridge Road, The driver told me his boss had picked the vehicle up from a scrapyard, with that non-London Transport body already fitted – he thought, perhaps, off a Leyland. A letter to London Transport gave me the stock number and some of these details. How kind companies used to be to little perishers who pestered them with daft enquiries!
Sometimes I gathered redundant discs from such ‘finds’ and nowadays some folk collect them – so below are those from T300, in case any of you chaps are interested.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Victor Brumby
Copyright Victor Brumby
24/11/11 – 06:46
Gut instinct. Shape of destination indicators and circular insert. Looks a bit Plaxton to me. Would have been an early one – even off a Leyland. Would also have been rare to see a Plaxton in or from the London area.
David Oldfield
24/11/11 – 06:47
How useful those little brass plates on the dumb-irons could be – I found them indispensable when finding old LT buses as showmen’s vehicles at funfairs! Looking at the indicator area above the cab, the body looks as if it could well be a Duple.
Chris Hebbron
24/11/11 – 06:48
Bearing in mind cheap labour in those far-off days, organisations as big as London Transport might well have employed a special “Clerical Officer, D.E.L.P.” (Daft Enquiries from Little Perishers) to answer such esoteric questions!
Stephen Ford
24/11/11 – 06:49
Most fascinating to notice from the two PSV licences that this fine vehicle had been demoted in April 1955 from “Express” to “Stage” – so often the fate of luxury coaches whose charms had begun to wane, but to the advantage of the service bus passengers who benefitted !!
Chris Youhill
24/11/11 – 07:46
As an addendum, the excellent website, Ian’s Bus Stop, shows that the vehicle was sold to Arlington Motors in August 1938, then bought by Osborne of Tollesbury, who had it re-bodied it by Duple as C32F. It was in service with Bickers in 1954 and withdrawn in March 1959. T300’s body was transferred to T369, which suggests that only the chassis was sold by LPTB.
Chris Hebbron
25/11/11 – 06:46
Well, it was a pleasant surprise to find this operator appearing on the web site as I am sending this note from a computer less than four miles from the Suffolk village of Coddenham. Indeed a work colleague was brought up in Coddenham and knows various members of the Bickers family. She has recalled that in her childhood Bickers vehicles always seemed to be older (i.e. more interesting to us) than those of other operators. Alfred C. Bickers (father of the Geoffrey Charles Bickers shown on the licence) had begun running into Ipswich from Coddenham by 1925. In April 1927 he bought a new 14 seat Ford Model T bus RT 2975 which no doubt became obsolete by the 1930s and was discarded. Many and various buses, (nearly always second hand) were bought until 1988 when that part of the business was divided between Eastern Counties and Ipswich Buses. Imagine everybody’s surprise when about ten years ago there appeared on the Ipswich – Felixstowe Vintage Vehicle Run a Ford Model T RT 2975 bus complete with original log book, entered and restored by David A. Bickers of Coddenham, grandson of the original owner. In the 1960s Dave Bickers was a well known motor cycle scramble rider and later he and his son Paul started to do stunt engineering work for films including a number of James Bond movies, see www.bickers.co.uk Clearly the restoration of a bus would have posed little problem to such a family of engineers. The PSV Circle states that GK 3172 was scrapped after withdrawal by Bickers but then that was what they said about RT 2975!
Nigel Turner
30/11/11 – 15:04
Chris Hebbron alludes to the brass dumb-iron plates to be found on all the period London buses. Above is the plate of the RT which languishes in the Johannesburg Museum of Transport, which I was amused to photograph on 2005.
Victor Brumby
16/08/13 – 12:14
Chris Youhill comments (above) about the apparent demotion of this vehicle from Express duties to Stage. My own memory is becoming a little hazy now, but my recollection is that, when it came to vehicles’ PSV licences, ‘Stage’ was a higher category than ‘Express’, i.e. with a vehicle licensed as a ‘Stage Carriage’ you could do everything you could have done with one licensed as an ‘Express Carriage’ – and more. The requirements for a ‘Stage’ licence were stricter – e.g. a passenger/driver communication system (i.e. bell or buzzer) had to be provided. Most vehicles were licensed as ‘Stage’, irrespective of the sort of work they were likely to be called upon to do. Am I remembering correctly?
David Call
18/06/15 – 10:43
I missed David Call’s comment of a couple of years ago. The classifications ‘Stage’ and ‘Express’ Carriage referred to Road Service Licences, the licences granted to operators by the Traffic Commissioners to run passenger services between specified points to a published timetable via a detailed route stopping at particular points at stated fares. The maximum size of machine for each route was also dictated. The vehicles were all licensed as psvs, and had to pass Certificate of Fitness tests at fixed intervals according to age. Thus coaches could be used legally on bus services and buses on coach services (the latter sometimes to the discomfort of passenger posteriors, no doubt). All this has changed, of course. Buses and coaches, like all vehicles of three years of age or more, now have to pass an annual MoT test, and the number of vehicles that a commercial operator can run is limited by the Operator’s Licence. The actual passenger services/routes are no longer licensed at all outside London. Bus companies today can run what they like when they like, and charge what they like for the (often dubious) privilege, subject to 42 days notice being given to the local Traffic Commissioner for applications for new or changed services.
Roger Cox
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
04/06/16 – 06:39
This is a late comment but the difference between stage and express was merely that of the minimum fare charged.Express services had a minimum fare of one shilling and “excursions and tours” was merely a special variety of express carriage. I think that vehicles used purely for private hire were licensed as “contract Carriage” but I am not sure about that – it is a long time since I did my Institute of Transport course and by the time I got my CPC (Operators licence) it was all irrelevant anyway.
Trent Motor Traction 303 – 1947 – AEC Regal I – Willowbrook FDP39F
Trent Motor Traction 768 – 1947 – AEC Regal I – Willowbrook B35F
A company not yet represented on this site is Trent Motor Traction, so this photo is to rectify that omission. In the early postwar years, Trent took delivery of a large number of AEC Regals with Willowbrook bus bodies. In 1958, some 20 of the Regals were modernised by Willowbrook, who fitted a full front, extended the chassis and lengthened the body to 30 feet, increasing the capacity from 35 to 39. The rebuilt vehicles were treated as dual purpose, which meant they saw use on local services (the only time I rode on one was on the Derby ‘town service’ 27 from Scarborough Rise to the bus station), and also express services, often to the East Coast on summer Saturdays. I’m not sure how much of a success they were, as they were withdrawn in 1962/3, only 2/3 years after the last of the unrebuilt examples. My photograph shows rebuilt 303 (RC 9668) and unrebuilt 768 (RC 9674), both from the 1947 batch, at Derby Bus Station in 1960.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Bob Gell
16/12/12 – 11:03
Extending the chassis and fitting a new body? Sounds rather like the Tilling fleets with the Bristol L to LL conversion. Who’s idea was it?
Pete Davies
16/12/12 – 12:20
Were not some of these Regals lengthened by Trent themselves but remained half cabs?
Eric Bawden
16/12/12 – 14:47
I found this site by accident (What a fascinating place the internet can be) and have been delighted with the photographs and comments. I was with Trent from 1965 to 1967 prior to emigrating to Western Australia. I worked at the Hucknall depot in Nottinghamshire where we drove mainly Leyland PD2’s and 3’s plus Atlanteans and Daimler Fleetlines. I never gave a thought, sadly, to taking photographs but I have found a few examples of vehicles similar to those that I drove. If anyone has examples of Trent buses I would love to see them.
Malcolm Holmes
17/12/12 – 08:14
When I was a nipper we took holidays at Skegness and we stayed at digs near the coach park! I seem to recall one of the full front vehicle was used as some kind of booking office. Have I got this right? My father who had the same initials RC often commented the number plate would be just right for his own car this being before the craze was the general norm.
Philip Carlton
18/12/12 – 08:00
To answer a couple of points, the rebuilt vehicles didn’t have new bodies. As Bob rightly states, the original bodies simply had the rearmost bay extended to achieve 30ft length and provide four extra seats. In halfcab form they had been used on long distance express services but attracted complaints from passengers because the original bus seats were very low backed. The rebuilt vehicles were given dual purpose seats although these were still rather spartan. The rebuilds gave between four and five years service, the last being sixteen years old when withdrawn, I suppose that was quite creditable for Trent who usually worked to a twelve year maximum fleet life. I’ve never known if the AEC radiator was retained behind the full fronts but the rebuilt vehicles had a reputation for getting extremely hot in the cabs and were known as ‘sweat boxes’ None of them were extended and retained half cabs. Quite a few rebuilds saw further service after leaving Trent. The mobile booking office at Skegness was a much earlier vehicle, a pre-war SOS.
Chris Barker
19/12/12 – 07:22
Chris – Thanks for the additional information. The pre war SOS mobile booking office (RC 2721) was saved for preservation, and is currently being restored by LVVS at Lincoln.
Bob Gell
13/06/13 – 11:34
As a fitter and a manager working at Trent for 30 years 1962 to 1992 I can confirm that the lengthened AEC Regals were indeed “sweatboxes” working on the engine in the cab in thick overalls on a hot day had to be believed! they did not retain the original AEC radiator but a flat metal affair, where they came from I am not sure. The conversions were all carried out at Willowbrook but for me they did not look right. As a matter of interest my boss at Trent for 25 years Malcolm Hitchen MBE is currently writing about his 50 years with Trent engineering hopefully to be published to coincide with Trent 100 years in October 2013
Alan Hiley
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
24/08/13 – 15:27
There is mention on this Trent page of a mobile booking office used at Skegness. This was RC 2721 a 1935 BMMO DON converted to the booking office in May 1953, acquired by the Lincolnshire Vintage Vehicle Society in April 1965. Still with them in 2013 and being put back to its original condition.
Alan Hiley
03/09/13 – 06:00
Alan Hiley in his contribution of 24/08/2013 makes mention of Trent Motor Traction Co., 1935 BMMO DON – RC 2721 being with the Lincolnshire Vintage Vehicle Society, in preservation. I thought you would like to see it in their ownership.
These Beadle bodies were popular with many BET group companies, most were built on refurbished pre war chassis, usually AEC or Leyland, and that was certainly the case with ten of Northern General Transport. However, from as early as 1923, NGT had a number of vehicles built on their own chassis. The post war chassis list were classified as NGT/AEC and numbered 132/174, I’m not sure if NGT built the chassis from scratch or if they were refurbished, but they all had AEC running gear and A173 engines. Between 1951/3, 43 were built, 37 bodied by Picktree to NGT designs, the service vehicles were affectionately know as “Kipper boxes”
Northern General Transport post war chassis list
Year
Chassis
Registration
Fleet Number
1951
132
BCN 888
1388
1952
134/42
CCN 368/76
1368/76
1952
149
CCN 404
1404
All FC35F Picktree A
1952
150/9
CCN 677/86
1457/66
1953
172/4
DCN 93/5
1493/5
All FC35F Picktree B
1951
133
CCN 402
1402
1953
160/71
DCN 67/78
1467/78
All B43F Picktree/NGT
However, six chassis 143-48 were bodied elsewhere; the 1952 Percy Main intake included six coaches with Beadle FC35F bodies, FT 7275/80 – 175/80. Two more arrived in 1953, FT 7791/2 – 191/2, but I cant find a chassis listing for them, so it’s possible they may have been re-bodies. The second two were FC39F and classed as D/P’s, and had a different treatment to the fronts with less bright trim and a number section on the destination layout. At the time the first six were delivered the predominant colour for the coach fleet was red, but the livery later reverted to the more familiar cream.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye
19/09/13 – 18:12
The style of body is very similar to those which Beadle applied to various rebuilds for Southdown (MUF 488 is preserved) and East Kent (FFN 446 is preserved) of the same era, so Ronnie’s suggestion that the lack of chassis details may indicate rebody (or rebuild) is quite plausible. Nice view, Ronnie. Thanks for posting!
Pete Davies
20/09/13 – 12:42
Pete, on the subject of preserved Beadles, some while ago, the N.E.B.P.T. Ltd found one of Northern’s 1953 Beadles “DCN 83” in a scrap yard. Apparently, it was in a dreadful state, and some debate ensued as to whether or not it was beyond redemption. However, a deal was struck and it was transported home to the North East where it is currently being restored. The trust is nothing if not thorough, so don’t expect miracles time wise, but I’m certain that the finished article will be done to their usual very high standards.
Ronnie Hoye
20/09/13 – 18:13
Thanks for that, Ronnie. Good news indeed! Are members of the group now looking for a suitable chassis, or do they have one that was waiting for a body?
Pete Davies
21/09/13 – 08:27
Pete, if you type DCN 83 into your search engine, it should take you to an article on the trusts web site. It only gives a brief outline, but there’s quite a bit of background information about the vehicle. As you will see, there are several differences to the one in the posting. It has a different front and destination layout, and for some reason it has a large front near side cab window and doesn’t have a cab door, having said that, some of them didn’t have a bulkhead behind the driver, so that would render a N/S cab door surplus to requirements.
