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West Yorkshire – Bristol JO5G – BWT 765 – 970


Copyright Roy Marshall

West Yorkshire Road Car Company
1937
Bristol JO5G
ECW B32F

West Yorkshire Bristol JO5G 970 with Eastern Coach Works (ECW) B32F body built in 1937 is also seen at Bradford Chester Street Bus Station about 1950. It would appear to being used as a temporary crew rest room after a duty on a service from Ilkley. This bus was was one of a further twenty eight “Js” rebuilt by ECW with a roller blind indicator box to replace the “bible” indicator. Bristol JO5G 970 was part of a large fleet of over one hundred bought between 1935 and 1937 and the “Js” could be seen operating over a wide area of the West Yorkshire Company network. 970 was withdrawn from service at the end of September 1954 and the last in the fleet JO5G 996 went out of service in May 1955.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Richard Fieldhouse

06/03/11 – 09:19

Another wonderful picture of particular nostalgia for me, as I lived in Ilkley in those days, travelled often on service 63, and when I joined West Yorkshire in 1960 worked on the route frequently. Although the installation of the postwar pattern full size roller destination boxes was an obvious improvement for all concerned, the fitment always seemed to me to be a little excessive in height and took something away from the beautiful classic lines of these vehicles. I had completely forgotten that the intermediate display was as comprehensive as shown in the picture – later editions settled for “Manningham Lane, Shipley, White Cross” and “Burley in Wharfedale” was certainly a bonus. West Yorkshire was one of those companies who liked to stick to three digit fleet numbers, which brought about an interesting point with this batch : In the 1937 delivery BWT 794 became 999, thereby “bursting the thousand”, and BWT 795 became 101.

Chris Youhill

06/03/11 – 11:55

Absolutely wonderful photograph which again takes me back further than I would care to admit!
WYRC allocated fleet numbers on a “hundred” block basis, service bus single deckers going on to a new “100” series when the 900 block was exhausted. I well remember riding on these “J”s , particularly from Bingley to Dick Hudsons, and it was these buses which evoked those memories of internal transfers which were discussed some weeks ago. “Please tender exact fare and state destination” etc!
I agree with Chris that the classic lines of the ECW body were somewhat spoiled by the roller blind conversion, which always seemed a bit “spasmodic” as to why some were and some were not converted.
I remember riding on the last “J” in service, in 1955, on an enthusiast tour from Bradford to York, where we also sampled the delights of the 3 “ADG”s, a story to be told elsewhere.
A delightful photograph Richard, and what a contrast between these later BWT registered J types and their earlier squarer ECOC bodied elder cousins with YG, AWW and AWX registrations!
A fleet with very strong Tilling influences, and yet how strange that the body layout, if not style, was typical of BET practice, with the front porch style door. Superb rugged, reliable buses which just oozed atmosphere and character!

John Whitaker

11/03/11 – 07:44

I’ve never driven a Bristol J or G, but K (in service) and L (in preservation) are old friends. A letter in Buses Illustrated about 40 years ago (I’m afraid I’ve forgotten the exact wording) suggested that–unlike the London RT driver–the poor provincial Bristol driver had to wrestle with heavy, awkward controls. Nothing could be further from the truth. Steering is light and dead positive, brakes are progressive and trustworthy, the clutch allows a nice smooth takeup, the gearbox is less demanding than some and has sensible ratios and the cab is comfortable: in short, an ideal driver’s bus. Or was I always lucky enough to get the good ‘uns?
Lovely evocative photograph! Thanks.

Ian Thompson

11/03/11 – 11:13

I agree with you fully Ian on every point there, and in particular concerning the brakes – I always found Bristol brakes to be completely predictable and reliable at all times. In my own view, and I appreciate that every driver has his/her favoured model, the Bristols of that era shared friendly top place with the Leyland PS1/PD1 for a pleasant and comfortable driving experience and absolutely no hidden vices.

Chris Youhill

11/03/11 – 17:51

I think it is what the onlooker sees (or thinks he sees). The pre-selector gearbox, especially on AEC Regents, always looked and sounded quick, smooth and light to operate. Manual gear change (before synchromesh) required the pause to let revs die down when changing up, or the blip on the accelerator to speed them up when changing down. So it was a slower change, accompanied by mechanical sounds that gave the impression of was hard and heavy work. Derby’s Fodens and Bartons’ Utility Guy Arabs certainly always looked and sounded as though they were pigs to drive – but there again I may be quite wrong.

Stephen Ford

12/03/11 – 07:11

Stephen, the Fodens were not at all hard to drive in terms of physical effort, but the gearboxes required spot on precision and were very unforgiving. Any miss-match of road speed and engine revs produced a high pitched screech rather akin to applying a piece of metal to a power saw and was most embarrassing. The Guy Arabs (early marques including the utilities) had easily manageable gearboxes, once you remembered that some were “back to front” in that first and second were nearest to you, and third and fourth were against the engine panel. Those Arabs did though have very heavy clutches and much effort was also needed to press the accelerator hard enough once the governors engaged. Despite these observations though I don’t think either model could fairly be described as “a pig to drive” – provided you were interested in the job they were rewarding and very tough vehicles, and I’d just love an hour on each of them right now.
My favourite bus at Samuel Ledgard’s Otley Depot was the Roe rebodied utility Guy Arab JUA 763, with “back to front” gearbox – I used to take it out at every opportunity. The placid little garage man who allocated the buses was always aware that he might have it on his hands to the last each morning as the undedicated brethren shunned it. His face would light up with relief when I appeared and, pencil poised, who would enquire “763 kid ??” and with a happy smile delete the number on his little list. My next task was then to try and pacify with cigs, sweets or teas the disgruntled conductors who would mutter “narrow gangways and only one bell upstairs.”

Chris Youhill

West Yorkshire – Bristol JO5G – AWW 165 – 925


Photograph by “unknown” – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

West Yorkshire Road Car Company
1936
Bristol JO5G
ECOC B32F

Bristol JO5G 925 is seen operating on a local service in Harrogate about 1950. This bus was one of sixty built by the Eastern Counties Omnibus Company in 1935/36 and is of the square back style. The previous posting of West Yorkshire JO5G 970 shows the round back style body of the 1937 batch. 925 was in service up to August 1952 and all the square back J types had gone by the end of October 1952.
Harrogate was also the headquarters for the West Yorkshire Road Car Company and mecca for the bus enthusiast. It always seemed to me to be a place of bus contrasts with the oldest in the fleet usually on the town local services and the newest buses generally operating on the prestigious 36 Leeds to Ripon service. Perhaps this was West Yorkshire trying to impress their United cousins at Ripon.
I made many visits to Harrogate in the fifties using the WY Skipton to Harrogate 76 service from Burley-in-Wharfedale and well remember my first sighting of the prototype Bristol Lodekka 822 (DX1) as well as the pre-production Lodekka with an open platform and later numbered DX2. Other strange buses to seen in Harrogate were the Morris/Beadles 618/619 (SM1/SM2) on town local services but my favourites were the many Bristol JO5Gs to be seen on various routes. These were very exciting days for a young bus enthusiast and never to be forgotten.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Richard Fieldhouse

24/04/11 – 15:04

The photo of 925 is nostalgic beyond belief for me as I so well remember these earlier “J”s in Bradford’s Chester Street Bus Station when I was a boy. They were obviously older buses than the “rounder” BWT J types and the following L types with similar bodies. There was always one parked (in my memory anyway!) on the little adjacent piece of land on the right as one exited the bus station, and it always seemed to have the “Have you Macleaned your teeth today” advert on the back. Other memories of these wonderful machines were on trips to Baildon, and to Dick Hudsons on the Bingley to Eldwick service. Oh to be able to ride on one again! They were amongst the most characterful and attractive buses of all time. Wonderfully efficient buses too, from an operational viewpoint.
Thank you to Richard for this superb memory jogger.
It may be of interest to other enthusiasts to know that I am currently preparing a readable WY fleet list from info. taken from various publications Hopefully, this will be included in the fleet list section on this website.

John Whitaker

24/04/11 – 15:06

My sentiments exactly Richard. From 1941 – 1947 I travelled to and from Ben Rhydding School on the Bristol Js, prewar Ls, Dennis Aces and Lancets.
The two “square backed” ones allocated to Ilkley at the time were 946/7 AWX 798/9 and I loved them. Later, when I was a conductor at Ilkley from 1960 my favourite route was the 76 Skipton – Tadcaster. It was a five hour round trip (wonderful) and took five “cars” to operate it – it was shared by Harrogate, Ilkley, Skipton and Wetherby depots (and by GRASSINGTON who used the Skipton depot “car” for one round trip.) I too loved the atmosphere of Harrogate and you always had the feeling that the Company’s excellence was concentrated there – indeed anyone who had to go there on a disciplinary charge (as opposed to local depot action) knew full well that they might come back via the Labour Exchange. If you were travelling from Burley in 1960/1 I may well have issued you with a ticket or two !!

Chris Youhill

Bristol Tramways – Bristol J – AHU 803 – J134-759-2355


Copyright Ken Jones

Bristol Tramways & Carriage Company Limited
1934
Bristol J
Bristol B35RD

AHU 803 (2355) was built as Bristol J134 in 1934 by the Bristol Tramways and Carriage Company as a private hire coach. It is one of only three preserved Bristol ‘J’ types, and the only one that has been preserved of those that operated with Bristol Tramways.
The vehicle history AHU 803 started life as private hire coach fleet number J134 and apart from a fleet number change in 1937 to 759 remained unchanged until the Second World War. In July 1941 its seating was rearranged to seat 34 while it was used as a bus, and between May 1942 and September 1944 it ran with a gas producer trailer.
After the war a Gardner 5LW diesel engine was fitted replacing the original Bristol 6-cylinder petrol engine and was renumbered 2355 at the same time. Later in 1947 it was rebodied with a new bus body at the operator’s coachworks at Brislington, Bristol. The new body seated 35, and the bus re-entered service in June 1947. In 1958 it was used during the construction of Bristol bus station for carrying large signs with the centre of the roof and rear of the body removed.
It was later sold to Nailsworth Boys’ Club, when a boat rack was carried on the roof, bunk beds and a kitchen were fitted and it was painted in a light blue livery. The vehicle was bought from Nailsworth Boys’ Club in June 1978 and stored for many years in a underground factory. It was then moved to Saltford before moving  to Yate goods shed in September 1981 where restoration started. It was moved from Yate to Brislington in February 1993 and restoration was completed during 1999.

Copy by Ken Jones compiled from the Bristol Vintage Bus Group website

13/06/12 – 09:54

Lovely specimen! Thanks for sharing, Ken. Here’s a question. Did this arrangement have a door for the passenger compartment, making it a B..RD or was it just B..R ?

Pete Davies

13/06/12 – 09:54

The history of this bus might suggest that it is a bit or a reconstruction after so many changes but having seen and photographed it on many occasions, it is a superb bus in beautiful condition looking just as it would the day it was new as far as condition goes. Delightful and still in perfect order.

Richard Leaman

13/06/12 – 12:00

What an absolute delight!
I can just hear this bus growling away and would love to hear it in action. It is also quite unusual in having the BBW version of the standard Tilling post war body, which was, I believe, more common in double deck form.
This is quite an early example, before the standardised fitment of the Gardner 5LW, and must have been a JNW (?)
I remember a preserved United Counties J, still with “shield” radiator, but ECW post war body, but where is the other preserved example?
Thanks for a super post!

John Whitaker

13/06/12 – 17:12

May I point you to Gerry Tormey’s website which has details on specifications and survivors of Bristol J vehicles at www.bristolsu.co.uk/  The United Counties vehicle is VV 5696 and the third vehicle is Western National ATT 922. ADV 128 is under restoration.

Ken Jones

13/06/12 – 17:14

In answer to the various questions: yes, the body has a door, so it’s a B35RD. And both comments are right – this isn’t the original body, it’s a replacement dating from 1947; and the original engine was a Bristol JJW petrol engine.
If you’d like to hear it in action (and have a ride on it), then please come along to our rally at Brislington, Bristol on Sunday 12th August 2012, when it will definitely be in action. If you can’t make that, then you should find it at a couple of other events during the year, and either way, more details about events and the bus itself are available on our website, www.bvbg.org.uk  
Hope to see you in August!

Chris Knight

14/06/12 – 09:13

Chris-delighted to hear that this Bristol JO5G will be running on the 12 August event. I do hope somebody will do a video clip of a ride of this bus and post it on this web site. I can still recall the sounds of my last service ride on a West Yorkshire Bristol JO5G 979 from Otley to Fewston in the summer of 1954. The combination of a Bristol J with a Gardner 5LW engine and mid-ship mounted gearbox produces a most evocative sound.

Richard Fieldhouse

15/06/12 – 05:42

Chris K… Thank you for answering the question. It looks as if there should be a door – that’s why I asked.

Pete Davies

15/06/12 – 05:43

Richard F… I shall be there on the 12th and will certainly try to get that ride and will indeed make the video film for the Bus Sounds section. Let’s hope it’s a nice sunny day!

Richard Leaman

04/08/12 – 07:53

Can I be difficult and disagree with some of the foregoing.
1. “It is one of only three preserved Bristol J Types” – must be more than that. Tony Brown at Chelvesdon has one, I’ve got two plus there is the one in the picture. Also an H is only a J with a different engine so I think Colin Billinton’s WNOC H ought to be included in the total on the basis that there is no more difference between an H and a J than there is between a JJW and a JO6A for example.
2. “and the only one that has been preserved of those which operated with Bristol Tramways.” Don’t think so. One of mine was operated by Tramways.
3. According to my understanding of the standard bodywork nomenclature, the ‘D’ suffix for doors is only normally applied to rear platform double deckers. Looking back at my PSV Circle sheets from those long gone days, Bristol L types, which, so far as I know always sported a sliding platform door always seem to be described as B35R.

Peter Cook

24/09/12 – 17:25

The other Bristol Tramways preserved J is BHW 432, fleet no.2199, which has a 1949 ECW body on a 1935 chassis. I last saw it at Telford, restored as fairground vehicle “Alice”.
Western National’s ADV 128 was one of those taken over by Bristol in the 1950 exchange of territory, as no. 2497. I believe this is at Winkleigh.

Geoff Kerr

29/10/14 – 07:05

This was in service last Sunday at BVBG Autumn running day – difficult to imagine it is 80 years old.

Ken Jones

03/02/15 – 05:48

Great to see these buses still in existence. I drove one of these in the sixties for about a year. It was being used to transport workmen to a road construction works in Northern Ireland. It had what I believed to be a 150 Gardner. It also had six volt lights and very slow wipers, a nightmare on wet winter nights. Still I look back on it with fond memories.

Paul Stuart

26/03/16 – 16:51

In 1967 I worked for Dowsett Engineering and we had two Bristols both Coaches I think. One had a beast of an engine in it, a Bristol and the other had a Gardner 6LW and both built like tanks. Lovely coaches, and I’m a Leyland man!

ELJ

27/03/16 – 07:28

Chris K and Peter C: as far as I’m aware, it’s always been PSVC policy to not distinguish between rear-entrance single-deckers with doors, and those without, presumably because, with single-deckers, for many decades doors have been the rule and no doors very much the exception. Looking back now this perhaps seems an omission, but PSVC codes have never catered for all layouts.
As to why doors should be the norm on single-deckers but not double-deckers, I can only think it was because single-deckers were more likely to be used on longer-distance and/or higher speed services.

David Call

12/01/17 – 09:10

Responding to David Call’s comment, firstly, there is of course a third type of entrance for single deckers which seems to have been prevalent prior to approx. 1935 which is a hinged door at the top of the entrance steps which is what AHT pictured above has. I had a sort of feeling these are referred to as vestibuled but I may have dreamed that.
I think the answer to the query about doors being normal on single deckers is that, on the standard ECW bodied L for example, there is a seat right across the back of the bus behind the entrance. If there were no door, the occupant of that seat would get soaked when the bus moved if the rain were coming in the right direction. Notably, single deckers which have no door (for example Exeter 66 (EFJ 666)) have no rear seat.

Peter Cook

13/01/17 – 06:37

Peter
Edinburgh single deckers with open backs had a seat for three at the rear.

Stephen Allcroft

14/01/17 – 07:07

Stephen,
I knew there would turn out to be an exception – to prove the rule of course. Scots must be hardy types. … or maybe being canny Scots the operator didn’t want to lose the fares on 3 seats just because the passengers would get cold and wet.

Peter Cook

Western National – Bristol H5G – FJ 8967 – 137


Copyright Ken Jones

Western National Omnibus Co Ltd
1933
Bristol H5G
Bristol B35R

Here is a sepia tone picture of Colin Billington’s restored Bristol H vehicle taken in the South Hams district of South Devon on the 19th September 2009 seen heading towards Kingsbridge, with Colin at the wheel.
Originally FJ 8967 was a Bristol H4B with a Brush B32R body. It was converted to H5G in 1939 and rebodied with a Bristol body in 1942.
It entered service in 1933 as Western National 137 and spent all its service life in South Devon when it was withdrawn from service in 1957 it became a showman’s vehicle. Purchased by Colin in 1996 who fully restored it in WWII livery, such as the white on the front of the mudguards. The shot could have quite easily been taken in the early forties don’t you think?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones

23/11/12 – 08:22

A delightful shot of an old vehicle happily plodding away in it’s home environment Ken. As you say, it could quite easily have been taken in the early forties – in fact I thought that it had! No cars in the frame to give the game away, and the bridge looks like its been there donkey’s years. Thank you for posting it.

Brendan Smith

West Yorkshire – Bristol GO5G – YG 8986 – 306


Copyright Roy Marshall

West Yorkshire Road Car Company
1935
Bristol GO5G
Eastern Counties L53R

West Yorkshire Bristol GO5G 306 with Eastern Counties L53R body built in 1935 is seen at Bradford Chester Street Bus Station about 1950. It is ready to depart to Baildon via Canal Road and this information is clearly displayed on its “bible” indicator. For its return journey, the conductor or driver would release the side clips on the “bible” to enable the horizontal flap to be turned to show “Bradford.” The intermediate destination points in reverse order would also be revealed on the hidden “page” after which the “bible” was then re-clipped.
No doubt the crews welcomed the adoption by West Yorkshire of roller indicator blinds from 1944 onwards, though the operating handles were still outside and involved a clamber over a hot radiator but there was no more awkward lifting of a heavy “bible” metal sheet arrangement. I wonder what injuries occurred and whether there were any compensation claims with handling of the “bible” indicator metal sheets.
306 was withdrawn from service at the end of November 1950 but the “bible” indicators remained in use with West Yorkshire I believe in 1958 with the demise of the last pre-war Bristol L5Gs.
Can anybody confirm the date of the last pre-war L5Gs? I have only West Yorkshire fleet lists to 1955.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Richard Fieldhouse

27/02/11 – 08:39

Thank you Richard for sharing with us this wonderfully composed and evocative picture. I have departed from that very spot countless times when I worked for West Yorkshire at Ilkley Depot. We operated services 63/68 to Ilkley and Ben Rhydding via Manningham Lane or Canal Road, and had just one weekday trip to Baildon – out via route 59 and Baildon Road and return via route 61 and Baildon Green. I never had to use the incredible and ludicrous “bible” indicators and, quite rightly, they would never have been permitted in today’s Health and Safety climate – this legislation is often sneered at, and can be “over the top” on occasion but it was certainly sorely needed in those days. At a quick glance it would appear that the last prewar L5Gs were indeed withdrawn in September 1958. Of interest is the “Tilling Group” swivel radiator filler cap, retro fitted to most vehicles in place of the original flat screw down pattern. Thanks once again for a particularly splendid picture.

Chris Youhill

27/02/11 – 11:19

I know I am susceptible to nostalgia, buses being no exception, but this photo has it all for me! As a child, I remember the shape of the ECOC “G” bodies so well, as they contrasted vividly with the post war fleet. They lasted until 1952, as they had provided cover for the company’s “K” type rebodying programme.
I can see them now, hurtling down Thornton Road from Denholm, leaving clouds of smoke in their wake.
What a place Chester Street was for a young enthusiast. Day trips to Baildon and Ilkley on such delights as 306, and their “J” cousins, and stopping off at Harry Ramsdens on the way back. Most of all, awareness of contrasting shape variations amongst the WY fleet. There was that green hut, full of stacks of spare bible indicators, and, as you exited the bus station, at the little parking area to the right, bus backs of differing profiles would persuade you of the delights of BOVRIL, or else pose the question, “Have you McLeaned your teeth today”?
Wonderful memories of a superb fleet in its heyday!
Can it be 60 years since the passing of these fine vehicles?
Thanks to Richard for this post…. Any more WYRC Co. enthusiasts out there?

John Whitaker

27/02/11 – 11:25

Yes, a lovely picture with much nostalgic value. I didn’t realise that ‘bible’ indicators were still in use as late as 1958 – they lasted until 1955 in York, where I never heard them referred to by any of the older staff as anything other than ‘flap boards’. West Yorkshire must have been very fond of them because they actually converted some of the vehicles they inherited from York Corporation to bibles from blinds.
The picture indicates, and I assume from Richard’s description, that the hinge was horizontal and that the flap was raised or lowered. That’s how I remember them, but I have seen photos, (pre-war), clearly showing a vertical hinge where the flap was turned like a page in a book. Can anyone throw any light on this?
In addition to being heavy and awkward, a problem with ‘bible’ indicators arose when the vehicle operated on more than one route. It would then be necessary to carry another board, either under the staircase or, on a single-decker, lodged between the bonnet and nearside mudguard. York’s Circle route, with three different destinations, would require a change of board every hour; some photographs suggest an additional slip board, just showing the change in intermediate route points, but I really can’t be sure about that; however the problem was solved, it would have been a tiresome bind for the crews, no doubt.
Thank you again, Richard, for this great picture.

Roy Burke

27/02/11 – 16:10

A question for Chris, then…
How did you get a 5G like this one up Browgate into Baildon? With great difficulty?
I remember the ‘flap boards”on York buses: they gave the York fleet a wonderfully old-fashioned & “foreign” look that went with the rest of the place- and the white boards went with the white “lavatory brick” so often seen in York (sorry- “Yark”)!

Joe

27/02/11 – 20:03

Roy you are quite right – although in the minority there were versions of these boards where the hinge was vertical and the pages turned “book fashion” – I remember them well and they were around after the War also. Additionally there were other lightweight boards with only one narrow line carrying the ultimate destination in black and the route number in red. They were shaped like a letter “H”, with slender legs at either side and the narrow route line midway between bottom and top – these must have been far easier to “hoist aloft” than the full size multi-leaf monstrosities.
Joe, you’ll have the Gardner legal team after you!! Slow steady progress in low gears was essential of course, but the big hearted Gardners would go anywhere you know – however Browgate did admittedly often demand first gear. I have a wonderful piece of video which I took on an enthusiasts’ outing on preserved KDG 26. Knowing what was to come I positioned myself on the nearside front seat and the superb and highly competent driver chose just the right moment to execute a masterly change into first gear without the slightest jerk or click. I often wonder to this day how the GO5Gs and similar models managed to achieve Leeds to Harrogate in virtually the same running time as the present day despite having to tackle the ascent to Moortown, Harewood Bank and Almsford Bank and so forth.

Chris Youhill

28/02/11 – 06:45

Eastern Counties were also users of bible indicators although whether they lasted into the fifties I couldn’t say.
Lancs United had their own variant on the bible this was the slot in stencil which was a metal stencil which was back lit. The boards were dropped into the indicator box by the conductor. On double deckers the boards were kept under the stairs and would occasionally fall over with a great clatter.
Preserved LUT Leyland Tiger 114 CTF 423 a 1938 TS7 with Roe bodywork has had the feature restored and can be seen in its restored glory at this link.

Chris Hough

02/03/11

Strange how Eastern Counties produced a rather nice five bay body on this and then changed to a six bay design on later construction, as on the North Western K5G’s

Chris Barker

02/03/11

In 1934 Keighley-West Yorkshire took delivery of two Bristol G-types – K111/2 (YG 5733/4) – which were the first Bristols to be fitted with Gardner’s new 5LW diesel engine. Previous G-types had been powered by Bristol’s own design of 6-cylinder petrol engine, and indeed the chassis of K111/2 were originally to have been powered by this unit. However they were modified to take the Gardner engines during construction at Bristol, and were subsequently given chassis numbers GO5G.1 and GO5G.2, denoting G-type, Oil engine, 5-cylinder, Gardner. The vehicles were of further historic interest as they were West Yorkshire’s first Bristols and also the first Bristols to be fitted with lowbridge bodywork (in this case 52-seaters by Brush).
Further GO5Gs were delivered to WY in 1935 (including the imposingly handsome 306 in the photo), these as mentioned having ECOC bodywork – the forerunners of what would become Eastern Coach Works. Thus started WY’s long and happy relationship with the hallowed trinity of Bristol chassis, Gardner engine and ECW bodywork that lasted into the ‘Bristol’ Olympian era – only thwarted when Leyland short-sightedly closed the Bristol factory in 1983.
Regarding Joe’s comment on the progress of 5Gs up into Baildon, I well remember a WY fitter commenting that they might have been plodders but they were unbelievably reliable and very economical. His quote was that “they might be slow but they could pull”t town hall down on a pint o’ diesel!” He may have had a point!

Brendan Smith

03/03/11 – 08:39

I can certainly vouch for Brendan`s comment about the pulling power of WYRC 5LW engined buses. I well remember hearing each cylinder in its separate firing as a G mounted Baildon Brow. They could have gone up a house side without stalling! I have similar memories of 5LW West Yorkshire buses on Garrowby, and Hollins Hills!
The AWW batch of 1935 was less common in Bradford, but their reversion to a 6 bay layout was more a return to norm, with the 5 bay batch being very much an exception in ECOC output, a position which continued for the rest of Lowestoft’s pre war production. Strangely enough, photographs of the AWW batch seem to be difficult to find.

John Whitaker

12/04/11 – 05:00

Referring to Chris Hough’s comments dated 28/02/2011, from 1945 to 1950/1 we used to have our annual holiday at Lowestoft and we stayed at a house at the back of the town. The road was part of the Eastern Counties route to Oulton Broad and my recollection is the buses had “Bible Board” indicators. They were not as elaborate as the one in the photo but had a pair of what looked like standard side lights to illuminate the boards in the dark. So it seems they did last until then. Incidentally, the Eastern Counties coachworks were just down the road from the boarding house and, periodically, chassis/engine units were delivered to the works from the manufacturer and they were just that, just a chassis, engine, transmission and wheels (no mudguards). They were driven to the works by a man sat upon a box tied to the chassis and wrapped in multiple overcoats and scarves even in the height of summer! I assume they wore goggles because there was no protection of any sort and it must have been grim in rainy or winter weather. The Health and Safety people would have a major fit if that happened today

Phil Jones

19/04/11 – 19:14

Several sources quote West Yorkshire, and Eastern Counties as being the only users of the so called “bible” indicator. There were detail differences between the “bibles” of the 2 operators, principally with regard to the illuminating “side lights” as used by ECOC. Of all the (superb) Tilling Group (or Ex Tilling after 1948) companies, ECOC was, perhaps the most typical. Flat terrain enabled the extensive use of 4LW as well as Gardner “5”s, and vehicle life was maximised. All in all, it was a fascinating fleet, and one which I, as a West Yorkshire fan, would love to read more about!

John Whitaker

11/03/12 – 07:54

The Ipswich Transport Museum has 4 (unrestored) ECOC/ ECW bodied saloons all ex ECOC. (1 x ADC, 1 x TS B9A, 1 x L5G, 1 x Dennis Ace) A collection of Ipswich area ‘tin bibles’ is on display in the museum………

Eric M

11/03/12 – 09:00

Nearly a year later I have just read Phil J’s memories of the bare chassis arriving at ECW from Bristol Commercial Vehicles. Seeing those brave men drive off from the Works in a convoy of 5/6 at a time was a regular sight when I was young and riding my three wheeler bike to wait by the Works entrance to see them set off.
Exactly as Phil says, there was no protection of any kind except a canvas sheet in front of the pedals and that bare box to sit on..gosh it must have been horrible to travel so far..about 160/170 miles on A/B roads back then and on a writhing, floppy chassis with springs set up to take the body weight. They did indeed wear goggles and most wore “Herbert Johnson” motorcycle crash helmets and a scarf over the mouth to combat flies.
On a cold Winter’s day it must have been absolute misery for them. Those big overcoats were always a golden fawn colour..until the front got plastered in dirt and oil when they became “two tone” in a rather unusual way!

Richard Leaman

York – West Yorkshire – Bristol GO5G – BWT 806 – Y 345


Copyright Keith A Jenkinson

York – West Yorkshire
1937
Bristol GO5G
ECW H54R

It was John Whitaker’s amusing recollection, (posting of East Yorkshire Leyland PD1), of his agonising journey from York to Leeds on a 1935 York-West Yorkshire GO5G that prompted this submission. It is taken from Keith A Jenkinson’s excellent book ‘York City Buses’, (my grateful thanks to the author for his kind permission to use it). It is actually from the 1937 batch of 4 vehicles, but apart from small differences to the window corners, it’s external appearance is virtually identical to the 1935 batch. The picture shows the vehicle at ECW before it entered service, in the pre-WW II livery and is, no doubt, rather smarter than the bus on which John had his small adventure, but I thought he – and hopefully others –  might be interested to see how it would have looked in its prime. Even ECW were capable of small mistakes, however; the registration number is wrong!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roy Burke

York – West Yorkshire – Bristol GO5G – AWW 27 – Y 327


Copyright Keith A Jenkinson

York – West Yorkshire
1935
Bristol GO5G
ECOC H58R

This picture was taken at York Station in 1937, and shows the vehicle, in its original livery, on the ‘Circle’ route – 1/8, Tang Hall – Beckfield Lane – Burton Stone Lane. The vertical line in the middle of the ‘bible’ indicator clearly suggests that the flap would have been turned over like the page in a book rather than being raised or lowered. However, the entire ‘bible’ would have needed to be changed some 15 or 16 times a day on this service – something of a chore for the crews.
To my shame, I have to say that, despite some of them being in service until 1952, I have no personal recollection of the Y-WY GO5Gs; the 1939 K5Gs, (and the 1938 K5Gs, after rebodying), were regularly used on routes with which I was very familiar and I knew those buses well, but I just don’t remember the GO5Gs. My only excuse is that Y-WY introduced Bristol K6Bs on the circle route – maybe in part because they had blinds – by the time I was about six years old, so the GO5G’s must have been used elsewhere in the system, (e.g. taking John Whitaker to Leeds!).
Behind Y327 is Y413, an ex-West Yorkshire lowbridge Leyland TD1; opposite is Y329, another GO5G.
My thanks to Keith A Jenkinson for his kind permission to use the picture.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roy Burke

09/05/11 – 07:57

There is something about the character of Bristol buses…old ones anyway. Business like, efficient, and thoroughly economic, and absolutely oozing with character. This photograph just sums it up for me. My Bradford based memories are of the lowbridge variety, so it was always a pleasure for me when, as a child, we went to, or through York, as the highbridge version was a rare treat.
Thanks for the memory Roy!

John Whitaker

Pontypridd UDC – Bristol E – HY 2391 – 9


Copyright Brizzle Born and Bred


Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Pontypridd Urban District Council
1931
Bristol E
Beadle H60R

Some time ago, I posted an item about a Portsmouth Corporation trolleybus, one a several which were lent to Pontypridd during the war. Hull did so, too.
Pontypridd UDC had a fleet of trolleybuses which, during the life of the system, (between 1930 and 1957) in total, amounted to just 17 in total, initially with 7 all-English Electric single-deckers.
These were augmented by two double-decker demonstrators in 1930/31, eventually purchased in 1932, one being an all-Guy BTX.
1945 brought 4 Karrier W”s, bodywork shared equally between Weymann and Park Royal, and four more in 1946, two bodied by Weymann and two by Roe. The last eight formed the entire fleet from 1947 to the end 1957, bar the two with Roe bodies, which were withdrawn in 1955.
The other 1932 demonstrator (above) was a very rare bird indeed, a Bristol E with Beadle bodywork, which lasted until 1946. In 1929, Bristol developed two six-wheeler chassis, the C and E types. Despite six-wheel chassis being popular at the time, only two of each type were ever built and, of these four, only the two E-type were ever bodied. One went to Doncaster Corporation, the other to Pontypridd UDC, both in trolleybuses form, the only trolleybus chassis Bristol ever built!

Photograph and Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron with acknowledgement to Peter Gould”s Fleet List website.

14/06/11 – 08:30

One of the two Bristol trolleybus chassis (E101) was fitted with a Roe body and delivered to the order of Doncaster Corporation (registered DT 2620). It ran on loan there from August 1930 until Feb 1932, when Doncaster purchased it as No 31. It had a BTH 60hp motor. Doncaster apparently encouraged the development of the trolleybus version of Bristol’s 6-wheel motorbus. But they did not buy any more, continuing to purchase Karriers instead for successive pre-war deliveries.
The other trolleybus chassis (E102) was constructed in 1930 by converting 3-axle motor bus chassis C101. This was fitted with a Beadle 60-seat body, and is the one shown as Pontypridd UDC No 9. It ran as a demonstrator at Pontypridd 1931-32, then purchased by them. It had a Bull motor.
In spite of their rarity, both led full service lives (Doncaster to 1945, Pontypridd to 1946/7).
Apparently one of each type (i.e. a 3-axle C-type motorbus and and a 3-axle E-type trolleybus) were exhibited in chassis form only at the 1929 Commercial Motor Show.
This is from information in Geoff Lumb’s “British Trolleybuses 1911-1972”, supplemented by “British Trolleybus Systems” (Joyce, King & Newman).
It’s probable that Bristol wanted to concentrate more on the motorbus side, especially when the Tilling-based companies moved to support them strongly when they moved away from the Tilling Stevens marque in the early to mid-thirties.

Michael Hampton

15/06/11 – 07:06

Thx for that useful additional information, Michael. The Doncaster one was even more non-standard with the Bull electric motor, a make I’ve never heard of! The wonder of rare vehicles is that a photo exists of them. For example, Portsmouth Corporation bought its sole AEC Regent before the war, which, typically, was destroyed, thanks to a certain A Hitler. I’ve never seen a photo of it.

Chris Hebbron

16/06/11 – 09:27

Chris, You may not have heard of Bull Motors but their factory at Ipswich survived until around 2000. Their products were often fitted to trolleybuses made by another Suffolk company, Garretts of Leiston, an example being one built for Copenhagen which has just been put in to service at the East Anglian Transport Museum at Carlton Colville after restoration.

Nigel Turner

16/06/11 – 09:30

I had a vague memory that Doncaster’s first trolleybuses were Garrett double deck 3-axle vehicles, with Bull motors and Roe bodies similar to those supplied in the same year based on Karrier E6 chassis. When checking this in Geoff Lumb’s book I mentioned last time, it turns out that Bull Motors Ltd were a firm in the same group as Garrett, which was Agricultural and General Engineers Ltd. Garrett’s were based at Leiston, Suffolk, but I don’t know where Bull Motors were located. They supplied motors to most (if not all) Garrett trolleybuses.
Garrett’s made trolleybuses from 1925 to 1930, when they decided to withdraw from that sector. This decision led to Bull’s supplying motors to both a Karrier-Clough demonstrator, and the Bristol for Pontypridd.
Garrett’s decided to withdraw rather than modify their designs, as although the batch supplied to Doncaster had similar Roe bodies to the contemporary Karriers, there were differences underneath. The floor height of the Karriers was 2ft 1in, which was 9ins lower than the Garretts. I haven’t been able to trace Bull Motors equipment being supplied to any other manufacturers’ vehicles.

Michael Hampton

16/06/11 – 10:20

Bull motors were fitted to some ADC chassis for Bradford, as well as Garrett and I believe this firm was owned by E.R. and F.Turner of Ipswich.

John Whitaker

11/06/12 – 14:29

A complete history of Pontypridd Trolleybuses was passed to Trolleybooks, the joint publications panel of the British Trolleybus Society and the National Trolleybus Association, two years ago. It should, hopefully, appear soon.

David Bowler

United Automobile – Bristol LS6B – 301 GHN – UC1

United Automobile Bristol LS6B

United Automobile Services
1958
Bristol LS6B
ECW C34F

Photo taking out side Scarborough railway station this is where United started there coach tours from I always liked the mystery tours. There was 1409 Bristol LS (light Saloon) built between 1953 – 58. United must of liked them, as they were by far the biggest buyer having 328 of them.

A full list including Bristol and United codes can be seen here.

I think the coach is from the UC1-5 series and they were stored at Darlington over the winter period, they were not used on the Tyne Tees service early in there lives. One I think gravitated to Morris Bros of Swansea.

Paul Fraser

There was a shot of this same vehicle in an issue of ‘Vintage Roadscene’ about two years ago. It was depicted outside Scarborough railway station, next to a board proclaiming ‘United afternoon coach tours leave here at 2.30 pm’. Standing in front of the coach is seen one Charlie Bullock, a long serving driver with United at Scarborough, and one of the town’s real characters. (For many years Charlie was the proud owner of ex-United 1940 Bristol K5G towing lorry FHN 923, which is now in the care of the preservation folk at Newton Aycliffe).

Brendan Smith

Another superb shot of a United coach in the Olive and Cream livery. One of these vehicles UC4 304GHN is currently under restoration with the Aycliffe & District Bus Preservation Society. I do believe that these 5 vehicles were used on holiday tours to Scotland and Devon when they were new.

Paul

01/01/12 – 07:11

Just a brief note to say that Charlie Bullock is still with us as of 31st December 2011 – !! I’m sure all bus preservationists will join me in wishing him a very Happy New Year.

Guy Stanbury

22/01/13 – 11:15

Sadly, Charlie Bullock died on 17th August 2012 aged 97. A link to an article in the Scarborough Evening News is here www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/

John Darwent

22/01/13 – 12:29

Is it coincidence or providence that Charlie’s ride to eternity had gained a mournful looking grille by the time the Final Ride was taken…..?

David Oldfield

23/01/13 – 07:00

My partner and I were privileged to have attended Charlie’s funeral in Scarborough, and although it was sad to lose an old friend, the proceedings were far from being a sad affair. There was warmth and humour throughout the service, and the crematorium was absolutely packed – no mean feat for someone of 97. Charlie went in to the tune of ‘Sentimental Journey’, and we made our way out afterwards to ‘When the Saints Go Marching In’, just as he had planned. His coffin (which he’d had in storage for many years, ready as Charlie put it, for when he was “called up to Head Office!”) – was draped with a United destination blind and floral tribute. Charlie even managed to put in a ‘personal appearance’ partway through the proceedings. With the help of a pre-recorded CD, he thanked everyone for coming to his ‘event’, and told us that he was the advance party and that he would no doubt see us all again at some stage! His ‘Old Beauty’ FHN923 performed her duty as Charlie’s personal transport admirably, in the hallowed company of United Bristol L5G LHN860, Doncaster AEC Regal III MDT222, and East Yorkshire open-top AEC Routemaster ALM65B. I have never been to a funeral before where so many people came out with a smile on their face. A fitting tribute to Charlie, a busman through and through, with a lovely sense of fun right up to the end.

Brendan Smith

23/01/13 – 11:23

Brendan, how I wish that I’d had the honour to meet Charlie, who was obviously a wonderful and enchantingly “mischievous” character as well as being a dedicated busman.
Just a slight deviation from this Bristol topic, but I too have the greatest admiration for the superb cream and olive green livery of the United coaches – dignity with boldness, not easy to achieve and sadly almost totally extinct today. My happiest memory of the livery is from my West Yorkshire conducting days on service 76 (Skipton – Tadcaster). Connections at important points were always specified on WYRCC running boards and my favourite was when we were due to leave Harrogate for Skipton at 4.00pm :-
“Connection must be made with United car for Liverpool due at 3.57 pm.”
The United “CAR” was always one of the nine magnificent Leyland Royal Tigers, in olive green and cream of course, and it was never late as far as I recall !!

Chris Youhill

24/01/13 – 07:13

You have a way with words Chris, and “enchantingly mischievous” is very apt. Your comment about the ‘Harrogate Connection’ is fascinating – that really was customer service. Today, in this age of competitive competitiveness, such a sensible thing would be totally unacceptable. The Competition Commission would be down on West Yorkshire and United like a ton of cylinder heads. (Note: why is there only one Competition Commission? Alright for them eh?). Harrogate was a still a colourful place for buses and coaches when my family moved there in 1966, and United provided vehicles in red and cream, cream and red, and cream and olive green. They operated two Lodekka FSF6Bs on the Ripon – Harrogate 126 route, and various LS and MW buses and coaches could also be seen at points throughout the day. Also calling at Harrogate Bus Station (which we very nearly lost thanks to Meddlesome Maggie) were the coaches of Northern General and North Western, and the fascinating blue buses of Samuel Ledgard. A lovely time to be a thirteen year old bus spotter.

Brendan Smith

24/01/13 – 11:06

United and the NGT Group had a number of shared routes and return tickets were valid on either companies buses, in addition to that, in areas where several routes merged and they were joined by Newcastle Corporation vehicles, in the event of a breakdown the conductor/driver could issue a slip and transfer passengers to any vehicle. Silly me, I forgot to mention one very important point, at the time buses were classified as Public Service Vehicles and were regulated by the area Traffic Commissioners.

Ronnie Hoye

25/01/13 – 06:39

As you rightly say Brendan, Harrogate Bus Station was a wonderful place in those days, and there was a marvellous “class distinction” measure in force. West Yorkshire buses on the main 53 service to Bradford via Otley left from a stand near the railway station end, while we of Ledgard’s on our hourly departure set out from a stand half way down the bus station under a sign declaring “Bradford (S.Ledgard)”- obviously to remind us that we were extremely lucky to be allowed within West Yorkshire’s Temple of Excellence.
One other little gem concerning the 4.00pm service 76 to Skipton, on Fridays at least, was a duplicate to Burley in Wharfedale operated by a coach and driver hired from Wray’s of Summerbridge in the command of a West Yorkshire conductor.

Chris Youhill

26/01/13 – 06:32

Chris, your mention of Wray’s of Summerbridge (as it then was) reminded me that their coaches could often be seen on hire to West Yorkshire. Indeed they could frequently be seen resting contentedly next to WY’s Bristol/ECW machines on the forecourt of Harrogate’s Grove Park depot, especially in the summer months. Wray’s even had some Yeates-bodied coaches in their fleet (Riviera and Europa spring to mind), the flamboyant style of which contrasted markedly with the classic lines of WY’s LS and MW coaches of the period. Wray’s were taken over a few years ago by Eddie Brown of Helperby, and Wray’s attractive and distinctive livery was sadly phased out quite soon afterwards. Unfortunately, Eddie Brown’s livery is yet another variation of the bland ‘white coach’ scheme seen in many parts of the country, with odd bits of colour added to try and differentiate one operator’s vehicles from another. Eddie Brown’s coaches have swoops and swirls along the sides in maroon and orange, and it’s reasonably attractive, but to me it’s ‘just another white coach’, and lacks the ‘class’ of the Wray’s livery. Nearby Dodsworth’s Coaches of Boroughbridge show how it could be done, with their very distinctive and handsome livery of all over orange with a black roof. Simple, but stunning.

Brendan Smith

26/01/13 – 15:02

304 GHN_1
304 GHN_2


Copyright J.A.Charles

Thought that an up to date photo of one of this batch may be helpful. This was taken at a rally at Croft motor racing circuit last year.

Andrew Charles

27/01/13 – 07:53

Thank you for posting the photos Andrew. A fine looking coach indeed, further enhanced by that famous cream and olive green livery. The position of the rear number plate is interesting, and presumably this was specified by United. Usually on this type of coach it was located immediately below the rear windows, approximately where 304 GHN’s lovely scroll fleetname is. The polished front wheel nuts add the final touch – they are just as they would have been on delivery, and ‘very Bristol’.

Brendan Smith

United Automobile – Bristol LS6B – UHN 347 – UT11

United Automobile - Bristol LS6B - UHN 347 - UT11

United Automobile Services
1954
Bristol LS6B
ECW C39F

Another LS6B coach belonging to United this coach instead of having roof windows had glass panels depicting the service that it ran. The first panel says “Tyne Tees” the second panel starts with a “T” is 6 or 7 letters long it could be “Thames” and the third panel I am sure says “Service”. When I took this shot much newer coaches would of been doing that run as this coach would of been about 12 years old at the time. This photo was taken at Whitby in the summer of 1966 the coach is on route to Newcastle, its starting point being Scarborough more than likely.
For anybody who knows or more than likely remembers the place this photo was taken you are right there should be a very large street light just behind the coach, “I’m afraid it had to go as it ruined the shot”.

Full lists of Bristol and United codes can be seen here.

The lettering on this lovely LS6B did as you say state Tyne-Tees-Thames Service. Although most LS coaches were fitted with Gardner HLW engines, some operators did specify the Bristol LSW unit instead, including United. The LSW was basically a horizontal version of the AVW engine used in many K/L-types and LD Lodekkas. Although not quite matching the Gardners for longevity or fuel economy, the Bristol engines were quite smooth running units nonetheless. I seem to recall LS6B exhausts emitted a nice crisp bark too.

Brendan Smith

08/11/13 – 14:42

I travelled on the United service from Victoria to the North East 3/4 times a year throughout the fifties and early sixties. I well remember these coaches.
They also had Tyne Tees and Thames printed in black on the upper part of the side windows together with towns en route.
Overnight services had central blue night lights in the roof so passengers could sleep. I can remember one of the first changed routes journeys north so to use the M1.
Does any model manufacturer past or present have an Bristol LS in the United TTT livery?

Harry

09/11/13 – 05:55

Harry, EFE made a very nice model of a United LS coach in Tyne Tees livery a few years ago – 1005 (formerly UC5): 305 GHN. Although the genuine coach was an LS6B, the model was based on EFE’s MW coach casting. This gave the body a slightly less curved rear profile than the LS would have had, but nonetheless evoked the spirit of these fine machines admirably.

Brendan Smith