Here are two more views indicating what a difference a coat of paint makes, especially if it’s the same colours applied in a different style on the same vehicle. SWO 986 was new to Red & White in 1958. It is a Bristol MW6G with ECW C39F bodywork and – in the first view above – the fleet number is UC758. We see it in the Weymouth rally on 1 July 1979.
In this second view it is in what many of us would consider to be more of a coach livery, but with fleet number DS758. It is seen here leaving Winchester Bus Station on 1 January 2009.
Eastern National Omnibus Co Ltd 1962 Bristol MW6G ECW C34F
Whilst on holiday in mid Wales in 1971 this coach parked opposite us whilst its passengers enjoyed an ice cream from the conveniently sited van. The location is the Elan Valley from where the large reservoirs fed water to the Birmingham conurbation. The Eastern National coach was along way from home on an extended tour of Devon and the Wye Valley. The 34 seats would have given plenty of legroom. BLOTW gives the original fleet number as 562 but it shows PL9360 here. Is PL a depot code? At nine years old the coach looks in good fettle. This style of ECW coach body caused quite a stir when introduced – very different from previous ECW designs- but quite pleasing in retrospect. And what about the registration number – would be worth a lot of money now!
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
01/06/20 – 07:35
The code PL refers to Prittlewell Depot which was located in Southend and was an ex Westcliff-On-Sea garage, there was also another ex Westcliff-On-Sea garage in Southend which used the code SD.
Ian Mason
01/06/20 – 07:36
Contrary to appearances, this was actually Tillings Travel PL9360 when the photo was taken. It started life as Eastern National 562 in May 1962 becoming 360 in the August 1964 renumbering. It passed to Tillings Travel as 9360 in January 1971. PL indicates that it was allocated to the Prittlewell (near Southend) garage of Eastern National which maintained the Tillings coach fleet. 9360 passed to Silcox of Pembroke Dock in late 1973 where it served until 1982. The saga of vehicle interchanges between Tillings Travel and Eastern National has already been covered on this website but I can’t work out how to link to the appropriate page.
Nigel Turner
01/06/20 – 07:37
Apparently this vehicle was renumbered 360 in Aug 1964 then transferred to Tillings as 9360 in Jan 1971. //www.bristolsu.co.uk/mw/ However the picture clearly shows Eastern National as fleetname. PL was the garage code for Prittlewell (a former Westcliffe depot) //www.sct61.org.uk/
Stephen Clough
01/06/20 – 07:38
The original fleet number, 562, was changed to 360 in 1964, and the 9 was added when it became part of Tilling Travel (NBC) in 1971. PL will be Prittlewell – depot at Southend. Tillings Travel (THC) Ltd had had some similar MWs from new, also with 34 seats. I have an ECW drawing which shows that those had additional interior luggage shelving at the rear of the coach – in the equivalent space to the 5 person back seat as I recall.
Peter Delaney
01/06/20 – 07:39
PL is the garage code of Prittlewell, and the 9xxx denotes this was a Tilling allocated vehicle. New 5/62 562 (ironic), became 360 in the 1964 fleet renumbering scheme, then transferred to Tillings Travel in January 1971. The two fleets were closely associated until National Travel (South East) Ltd took control of the coaching unit in 1974.
Southern Vectis Omnibus Company 1969 Bristol LHS6L Marshall B35F
Seen here in the summer of 1969 when almost new, NDL 769G was one of four Bristol LHS6L buses delivered to Southern Vectis with 7ft 6ins wide Marshall B35F bodies of curiously old fashioned appearance. The flat glass windscreen with angled corner glasses was reproduced at the rear. To my eye the utilitarian result had something of the air of a welfare vehicle or a mobile library. Only nineteen examples of this design were constructed. Twelve similar bodies with 33 seats on LHS6L chassis were supplied to Western National in 1972. Gash of Newark took two, one in 1973 and the other in 1975, but these were 8ft wide. Harvey of Mousehole took a single narrow example in 1977. In all cases the chassis was the LH6L with the 6.54 litre Leyland 400 engine, or, from 1971, the more powerful 401, which was coupled with a Turner five speed synchromesh gearbox. The bus shown above was bought by United in 1977 and is currently in preservation, though the livery it now wears is, in my opinion, an offence to the eye – see what you think at this link.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
25/01/16 – 06:33
Interesting view, Roger, Where was the photo taken, please? I’m guessing Newport. The best that can be said of the “United” livery is that it is at least in what might be described as in patriotic colours although the style of application won’t be very high on most folks’ idea of ‘good taste’. Talking of “United” the captcha for this response is 58HN, a Darlington registration
Pete Davies
25/01/16 – 06:34
I agree entirely, Roger. The current livery is simply awful.
David Wragg
25/01/16 – 09:17
Yes, Pete, the location is Newport. The church in the background is Newport Minster. Please forgive the omission. This style of body has always puzzled me. Marshall constructed a large number of single deck bodies of (what one might call) basically BET appearance with curved glass windscreens, and I supposed that the reason for the flat screens lay in the narrow 7ft 6ins width of the vehicles. However, Gash took two with the same front and rear end design, and these were 8ft wide. The narrow Bristol BN and BS classes of London Country and London Transport respectively had curved front windscreens and flat glass at the rear, though these vehicles were delivered from 1973 onwards. Surely this curved screen was available in 1969. I doubt that the relative costs would have been a factor. The complicated rear screen on the Marshall would have negated any (debatable) cost saving when replacing the various flat glasses at the front. I imagine, also, that this Marshall feature was structurally weaker.
Roger Cox
25/01/16 – 10:50
Marshall also produced a “coach” version mainly for WNOC in particular that had curved glass in the windscreen.
Chris Hough
25/01/16 – 14:00
David W – I couldn’t agree more, Except that I would not use the word “livery” – rather a freelance graffiti exercise, and a bitter disappointment compared with even the NBC version of United’s livery.
Chris Youhill
26/01/16 – 06:52
I have seen a Leyland National with a ‘paint job’ similar to the United one, but I’ll not send you running for a darkened room by offering it for publication. [Unless someone’s mother in law is threatening a visit, and the reader is suitably desperate!]
Pete Davies
26/01/16 – 06:53
The “current” livery was chosen by United as this bus was used on a “town” service in Newton Aycliffe, which was very successful It was discontinued after a few years… No doubt someone will come up with more information. Just for the record I drove for United out of Darlington for 10 years and would possibly had stayed a bit longer but had to leave to care for my wife after she suffered a life changing event….some good memories and some not so good
John Wake
26/01/16 – 06:54
Photo; VOD 88K Bristol LHS/Marshall of Devon General O&TC. It is so good to see the oddities and rarities of vehicle styles from the past, as a contrast to the Southern Vectis LHS/Marshall, I offer this Devon General preserved in the pre-National Bus Company red version of the British Transport Commission livery. This view was taken at Yeovil Junction railway station on the border of Somerset and Dorset during July 2010. These narrow Marshall bodied vehicles were ideal for rural routes but were never taken in great numbers by the main transport groups of the time.
Ron Mesure
27/01/16 – 06:20
Devon General only became a Transport Holding Company subsidiary in 1967 on the occasion of British Electric Traction selling its bus interests to the Ministry of Transport. By the time this bus was delivered the company was a subsidiary of the National Bus Company. Prior to late 1972 the NBC had operated without corporate liveries.
Stephen Allcroft
27/01/16 – 06:22
I think we can be reasonably sure that the body order for these LHSs went to Marshall because of the narrow width requirement. ECW were building bodies for LHS around the same time (for Lincolnshire and Luton Corporation), but these were 7′ 10″ wide, as were the contemporary bodies on the longer LH chassis at that time. I am not sure if the narrow version of the BET windscreen was available at that time, but I believe the principal problem was the height, rather than the width. The basic structure of the body looks to be similar to the Marshall Cambrette bodies built on Bedford VAS chassis for Coventry and East Kent a few years earlier. The radiator of the Bristol LH range was set relatively high, so that Marshall would not have had very much scope to extend the aperture for the windscreen downwards, while an enlargement upwards would have intruded into the destination display area. The only other option would have been to use the shallower rear screens of the BET curved variety, but I am reasonably sure they were even shallower, and the aesthetics of the vehicle would have suffered, not to mention the driver’s field of vision! The multi-pane version adopted was already being used for export vehicles, so I suspect the adaptation for these LHSs was a simple and effective solution. The 10 Bristol LH coaches that Marshall bodied for WN (with mixed BDV-L and NTT-M registrations) had a different body structure with a shallow roof and deeper side windows, which meant that the BET screens could be accommodated. I would hazard a guess that the structure of these was derived from those that Marshall built for the MoD, usually on Bedford SB chassis, though I believe that some later vehicles were built on underfloor-engined chassis.
Nigel Frampton
06/09/17 – 06:52
United acquired both 832/3 NDL768/769G from SVOC and numbered them 1451/2 for demand variable services from Ripon depot in 1977 where they were sparingly used. They were then sent to Darlington depot where they were to be used for a new service serving Newton Aycliffe. 1451 was replaced by a newer ex Trent LHS/ECW also in the distinctive Newtonian colours (as befits a new town) but 1452 survived. NDL769G eventually passed into preservation replaced by, ironically, another ex SV LHS in 838 HDL415N. The ECW LHS’s continued on the Newtonian until deregulation when Merc minis brought a larger network of services though still with Newtonian fleetnames. Three LHS’s (now joined by HDL414N) were sent to Ripon (again coming full circle) where the livery was amended to Ripon City Bus. The LHS’s were then swapped with Western National though the livery was then applied to some standard LH’s (1705/6) at Ripon depot. There was ANOTHER similar patriotic livery applied to three vehicles (one was the National) but thankfully not perpetuated!
BW
01/11/19 – 05:54
These narrow bodied LHS Bristols were purchased for service on the Newport to Cowes pontoon service which required drivers to negotiate the narrow arch entrance to the Red Funnel Cowes terminus. Not a favourite among drivers due to the heavy steering and clutch on these vehicles.
Photographed during the British Coach Rally of 1970, UBW 625H was one of two Bristol LHL6L coaches bought by Grayline of Bicester. According to BLOTW, 174 examples were constructed of the LHL6L, the extended version of the LH for 36ft long bodywork, though eleven were fitted with specialist van bodies. Of the remaining 163, all received Plaxton coach bodies except for two that were bodied by Duple. The LH6L was powered by the Leyland O400 engine which was fitted to the majority of LH and LHS orders, the alternative being the Perkins H6.354. No examples of the LHL had the raucous (I speak from experience) Perkins engine, but the Leyland power unit was no paragon of quietness either. Apart from the London Transport deliveries that had either six speed manual or automatic gearboxes, the standard fitment was the Turner Clarke five speed synchromesh. At least one, KRE 345K, had a semi auto gearbox, but this might have been retro fitted. The O400 engine proved to be of suspect reliability and was supplanted by the O401 in the last production LH variants. The LH, and the short LHS in particular, soon gained reputations for bad riding, which might well have been ameliorated in the longer LHL, though no variants of the LH model were regarded as being among Bristol’s most reliable or inspired engineering achievements. UBW 625H was delivered to Grayline in August 1969, its stablemate UBW 626H arriving in the following month. Both had Plaxton C53F bodywork. UBW 625H passed from Bicester to the Gosport arm of Grayline, formerly Hutfields, in December1970 and was sold by Grayline in September 1974 to Eagle Coaches of Bristol.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
31/01/22 – 06:19
According to the PSV Circle Bristol LH chassis list, there was one LHL fitted with a Perkins engine – YMD990H supplied to Wilder, Feltham (chassis LHL-143). Whether that is correct, I am not sure – Wilder purchased several LH models, with a mix of Leyland and Prerkins engines. Chassis LHL-168 had a Leyland engine and a Plaxton body, but it was a Derwent bus body, B55F, for Coity Motors (ATG459H). Chassis LHL-206 is shown as having a Plaxton DP49F body, for the Irish Army, but I have never seen a photograph of this vehicle, so I am not sure of the body style. Roger also says: “Apart from the London Transport deliveries that had either six speed manual or automatic gearboxes, the standard fitment was the Turner Clarke five speed synchromesh.” London Transport did not have any LHL chassis, only LH and LHS models. As I understand it some LH models for NBC subsidiaries were fitted with semi-automatic gearboxes – Midland General and United Counties, as far as I am aware. I believe that the first 6 vehicles supplied to Bristol OC were also fitted with semi-automatic boxes. However, the PSV Circle book only mentions the LT vehicles, as per Roger’s comment.
Nigel Frampton
01/02/22 – 09:21
Sorry if my text was unclear, Nigel, but my comment about transmissions was meant to cover all the LH variants, not just the long version. I did not know that some of the LH/LHS deliveries to NBC had semi auto boxes. Certainly London Country for whom I worked in an admin capacity had synchromesh boxes in their LH buses, though I think that they were four speeders, and one might have expected LCBS to have taken semi auto if that option had been available. I do recall the engineering department expressing general dissatisfaction with the LH model, and particularly with the synchro boxes, though the latter may well have arisen from the unfamiliarity of most LCBS drivers with manual transmissions. As for some LHL coach operators specifying the Perkins engine, what on earth were they thinking about?
Roger Cox
02/02/22 – 06:09
Taking up the points mentioned by Nigel:- LHL-206 for the Irish Army can be identified by the body number, 733170, as being a Plaxton Panorama Elite II coach body. Wilder, Feltham:- From P.S.V. Circle News Sheets 364-EDIT-27:- Brighton Rally entries: Wilder, Feltham YMD 990H Bl LHL6P LHL-143, and YLY 594H Bl LHL6L LHL-144 365-MET-59:- YMD 990H new 4/70 – Bl LHL6L LHL143 380-MET-128:- YMD 990H quoted variously as LHL6L and LHL6P, is LHL6P. Since the data in the Rally Report pre-dated its appearance in the News Sheet, there can be no doubt that the LHL6P and LHL6L for the Rally entrants was taken from the relevant chassis plates.
John Kaye
04/02/22 – 05:48
Just picked this up. This livery is one of my favourites. This stems back to Gliderways Smethwick in my youth, the first company I wrote to and asked for a fleet list, only to be told they did not issue fleet lists. However I did receive a letter beautifully embossed with the crimson Gliderways fleet name. I suppose the element which made the presentation of the coaches stand out was that the grey/crimson colours were the only colours used, including any lettering and the fleet name. A great look in the 60’s. Grey also weathered well in service, not looking too shabby even when dirty
John Rentell
04/02/22 – 05:50
United had quite a number of the short wheelbase versions with Leyland engines. They were known as ‘Stotty Boxes’ Stott being a Geordie word meaning ‘bounce’ and my word, they certainly did.
Ronnie Hoye
08/02/22 – 06:17
A little surprised that the O.400 was suspect in reliability. Noisy and underpowered it most certainly was, but I thought that otherwise it had quite a good reputation. I would certainly agree with Ronnie about the shorties. I cannot remember the history of the vehicle – but I believe that it had been with ABC Guildford before reaching the operator for whom I drove it. Possibly the worst, and certainly the most bouncy bus or coach that I have ever driven. How can something as dire as an LH come from the same factory, and at the same time, as an RE?
David Oldfield
09/02/22 – 05:57
I recall that the prevailing view after Leyland bought shares in Bristol was that the Transport Holding Company allowed Leyland to take control from a technical standpoint. The THC wanted a successor to the SU, but Leyland wanted a successor to the Tiger Cub. I see from Wikipedia that the LH’s front and rear axles came from Leyland’s Bathgate plant, which suggests to me that it was designed and developed under Leyland’s thumb.
Peter Williamson
22/08/22 – 06:51
I remember driving LHs from United’s Jesmond Garage in Newcastle in the early 1970s. They had very heavy steering and the synchromesh gearbox was stiff. They also had a loud exhaust, but we’re very fast, if you could put up with the bouncy ride! For comfort, I preferred the earlier crash box single deckers, which were known as “U-boats” at Jesmond.
City of Gloucester/Western Travel 1969 Bristol RELH6L ECW DP49F
Gloucester’s first public transport was horse trams, in 1887, then electric trams in 1904, immediately becoming municipal. Livery was crimson lake and cream, becoming battleship grey during WWI and remaining so until closure in early 1933. Interestingly, during WWI, track was ripped up from little-used sections and used to extend an existing route to Brockworth Airfield. A tram was then converted to pull railway trucks some 6 miles through the streets! Good job the route was virtually flat! Replacement bus services started in 1929, using a succession of Vulcan Duchesses and Thorneycroft BC’s (all, bar four, with normal control) , with Gloucester Railway & Carriage Works bodywork, the original tram livery being reinstated. Later on, four of the oldest Thorneycroft vehicles were, oddly, sent all the way to C H Roe in Leeds to have their entrances moved to the rear of the vehicles! On 12th June 1936, in a novel move, Gloucester Corporation leased their services to Bristol Tramways and Carriage Company Ltd. All vehicles in the Corporation fleet were officially transferred to the Bristol company from this date, although the actual transfer had already taken place in the April. As part of the agreement, the former 35 Gloucester Corporation vehicles did, however, continue to carry Gloucester on the side and bear the city’s coat of arms, a fitting reminder of the days of Gloucester Corporation Transport. In fact, the coat of arms continued on the agreed number of buses, right through nationalisation with the National Bus ‘N/Shadow Arrow’ logo, too, and on until Stagecoach West took over Western Travel’s empire in Gloucester, Cheltenham and Swindon, in 1993. Western Travel painted their buses predominately in blue, which brought some colour after the dreary red and greens which hitherto had covered the country and, in the early transitional days, still also bore the double ‘N’ Arrow. They inherited and continued to run Express services, some of which were seasonal, to such places as Bath, to Weston-s-Mare and to Coventry (via Stratford on Avon). They also ran a really long-distance one to Weymouth and it is on the seafront there where we see Bristol 2062 (WHW 374H), a 1969 dual-purpose Bristol RELH6L/ECW DP49F body in City of Gloucester dual vehicle colours at Weymouth Rally – June 2011. This example was never in dual-purpose colours, but sister-vehicles were and it has only just been painted in this livery, for a few months, as a tribute to Gloucester public transport. Note the Gloucester Coat of Arms as well as the shadow ‘N’ logo. I travelled on one of the type to Coventry on one occasion and found them very good for DP vehicles. Certainly better than my going to Weston-s-Mare on one occasion on a Leyland Olympian – 45mph for 70-odd miles on the M5, but with a good view from the top deck when we finally glimpsed the sea! By this time, these services were on borrowed time, what with vehicle and driver shortages; a shame really, for, in my experience, they were always well supported.
Copy contributed by Chris Hebbron Photograph by kind permission of Rob McCaffery
04/09/11 – 07:45
As a coach enthusiast, after the ZF Reliance, the RELH is my favourite vehicle and whilst I have no problem whatsoever with the Gardner engine my preference is for the RELH6L. Having driven both, this is not purely an “enthusiast” thing. The featured vehicle had DP seating but many similar vehicles elsewhere had the very comfortable full coach seating, making them suitable for National Express – if not touring. As a student, I travelled many happy miles on such East Midland vehicles (both Gardner and Leyland powered) as well as the North Western and Ribble RELH6Ls with MkII (my designation) coach body. My first long distance REL6G “cruise” however was by West Yorkshire on Yorkshire Services from Sheffield to London. In old age, I now find myself with both musical and PSV connections in Gloucester.
David Oldfield
08/10/11 – 05:46
Western Travel each depot had its own colour, with yellow flash Cheltenham red. Stroud green. Swindon red. Gloucester blue. Coaches, as per depot. Service trucks yellow. Vans as per depot.
Mike
29/04/12 – 07:56
The RELH with ECW coachwork was really solid, quiet and comfortable vehicle to ride on but the early models with crash gearboxes combined with it’s rear engine took some time and practice to master rewarding when you got the knack. The ECW body had one major fault which became all too obvious the first time you had one on a busy express run with a load of luggage and it rained, there was a small luggage locker behind the engine with the door in the usual position at the rear when that became full the underfloor lockers had to be used the doors to which were quite shallow but heavy and fitted at the lowest part of the side panels which being within the wheelbase meant they collected all sorts of muck and water in the aforementioned rain which made opening them in those conditions unpleasant to say the least. The overall low build of these vehicles meant that even looking into the lockers let alone putting in or removing heavy suitcases was not good for your back muscles. The later Plaxton bodied had higher mounted and lighter locker doors which made them much easier to use and less dirty and painful. The later semi-automatic gearbox made them much more pleasant to drive, I too preferred the Leyland engined version.
West Yorkshire Road Car Co 1964 Bristol RELH6G ECW DP47F
A while back I posted a gallery of photos taken on the occasion of a Farewell to Samuel Ledgard tour in 1967. Taken on the same day at the start of the tour is this one showing West Yorkshire Road Car’s fine Bristol RELH6G/ECW coach ERG5 (AWR 405B)loading in Bradford’s Chester Street Bus Station. Behind is our tour coach – Ledgard’s Tiger Cub/Burlingham Seagull UUA 794. Alongside is West Yorkshire’s SBW28 (KWU 388), a Bristol LWL6B/ECW B39R new in 1952 as no. 451 but renumbered in 1954. It was withdrawn in November 1967 and sold to North’s the dealer in 1968, passing to Drury (Northern) Ltd, Huddersfield for works transport. Behind the LWL is SMG11 (MWR 222), a Bristol LS5G/ECW B45F new in 1954 as EUG11 with DP41F seating. It had been rebuilt by ECW as B45F in 1958 and renumbered SUG11, but then renumbered again to SMG11 (in the MW series) in 1962. It was withdrawn in 1968 and also sold to North’s.
Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer
15/01/13 – 14:49
My first solo visit to London from Sheffield was on one of these. (E reg. – but I didn’t record which one.) I knew I would not get a ZF Reliance – SUT didn’t do Yorkshire Services and East Midland didn’t do the Sheffield diagram. The ZF Reliance remains my favourite but the RE was a revelation and started my “love affair” with the marque and model both as passenger and as driver. A magic carpet ride and smoothly quiet. Was this only the ’60s? [Stephen Morris once said that standards of ride and engineering were never bettered than on the AEC Regal IV – the same could be said, especially of rear engined vehicles, of the Bristol RELH6G/L (and sisters)].
David Oldfield
15/01/13 – 17:38
In Lancaster, we used to have West Yorkshire vehicles coming through on the X88, which ran between Morecambe and Leeds/Bradford. So far as I can recall, these were usually from the CUG/EUG/SUG classes of LS, but we had the more modern MW types from time to time. I have a view of one of these in the background of a slide of one of the Standerwick Atlanteans, but it isn’t suitable for publication. With the others, there were obvious differences, but why was the example above not a full CRG???
Pete Davies
16/01/13 – 05:13
Probably due the peculiarity of official designations by BTC/ECW for these early coaches, Pete. If they had full destination blinds (including number boxes) and powered folding doors, then they were designated DP (express). If they had a single piece coach door and small destination blinds without number box they were designated Coaches. DPs included United’s 43 seaters fitted out to the most luxurious specification for the long trek to London. [Including the arm-chair like seats, a notable feature of RE coaches.] This looks like one of these United-like “DPs” – although 47 was the usual capacity for these REs.
David Oldfield
PS: The new Weymann Part 2 book designates Sheffield’s Fanfare Leopards as Express. The only difference between them and any other Fanfare produced is the full destination display – including number box.
16/01/13 – 08:40
Thanks, David!
Pete Davies
16/01/13 – 17:15
I agree with David Oldfield’s comments regarding the quiet comfortable ride of the ECW bodied RELH6G I think because the bodywork was so solidly built with good sound insulation and as they normally had only 47 seats quite spacious for passengers. Driving on the other hand especially on the early 5 speed manuals took some getting used to as hearing the engine note to time gear changes was not easy but once mastered it gave genuine satisfaction, the main bugbear was what seemed to be too wide a gap between the 2nd and 3rd gears which was present on all RE’s coach or bus that I drove. Also be careful selecting reverse on those type if the heater control was in the mid position in it’s quadrant as it was very easy to trap your finger very painful, but for all that I am glad to have driven the vehicles of the 60’s and 70’s rather than the automatic power operated point and steer vehicles that have followed since then where I would feel more of a wheel hand than a driver.
Diesel Dave
17/01/13 – 05:28
Yes. As an operator friend of mine once said, “I want professional drivers, not steering wheel attendants.” As a fan of the ZF manual box [I know, not available on REs] I have only ever driven semi-automatic REs. Pleasurable, nonetheless. The gap between ratios on 2nd and 3rd gears was always far more noticeable on the Leyland Leopard, though.
David Oldfield
18/01/13 – 06:35
I have always been a fan of the RE despite an unfortunate incident involving one. In 1973 I went from Salisbury to Swindon for the purposes of a vasectomy. The deed was done and I caught the service bus home. At the time this route was shared by Wilts and Dorset and Bristol Omnibus and it was the latter’s RE that I boarded. Despite a dose of aspirin and decent suspension I felt every bump! At the short stop in Marlborough I had a walk round but was very glad to reach Endless Street bus station, which incidentally the asset strippers are going to sell now. Several years ago I saw a preserved example at the Warminster running day. It pulled away with that glorious Leyland sound and distinctive transmission noise and a shudder went through me.
Paragon
18/01/13 – 06:36
A lovely shot John, crammed full of interest – and doesn’t that cream and red livery really brighten up the wet weather scene? I cannot help but agree with David and Diesel Dave’s comments regarding the RE coaches. I had a real soft spot for them and thought they looked elegant and restrained, and as you say David, gave a very quiet and comfortable ride. West Yorkshire provided a coach for interested Central Works and Harrogate depot staff to visit the 1970 Earl’s Court Commercial Show. The company provided ERG7, their only ERG with semi-automatic transmission. It was such a smooth and gently powerful beast, and our three drivers (fitters Johnny Berry and Malcolm Houseman, and I think, driving instructor Johnny Parker) drove it as taught. Each upward gearchange was paused in neutral, to allow the Gardner engine’s revs to ‘die down’ before the next ratio was selected, and the changes were barely perceptible. Only the engine and exhaust notes gave the game away that the next gear had been selected. David’s comments are correct relating to the designations – ERG being Express, Rear engine, Gardner, as the class had bus-type glider doors and a bus-style destination layout. They were painted cream and red, denoting their ‘dual-purpose’ status. The full coach version (CRG) had a one-piece coach door, and had a smaller coach-style (two aperture) destination display. Livery was cream and maroon, as befitting their more prestigious duties, and the coach version also sported a deeper aluminium trim strip beneath the side and rear windows, which was also ribbed. By the way David, if the coach you rode on to London was E-reg’d, it would have been CRG1 (OWT 241E), as it was WY’s only E-reg’d RELH. It was always my favourite WY RELH, and was company’s only manual gearbox CRG. It also had a fascinating history all of its own!
Brendan Smith
18/01/13 – 08:14
Brendan, thanks for that. Would that mean it was the RELH6B that was an “unfinished” test bed vehicle built sometime before 1967? After fulfilling its test duties it was re-engined with a Gardner and sent to ECW to be properly finished.
David Oldfield
18/01/13 – 11:03
Just like Brendan I have the very greatest admiration for all versions of the Bristol RE. Having at one time had many relations in the South I was a fairly regular traveller on the London services and the RE coaches were above reproach in all respects, particularly quiet smooth running and supreme comfort – we have every sympathy with your predicament Paragon but the Bristol can scarcely be blamed for that, and what a mercy you didn’t have to travel home on some of today’s ghastly apologies. The Bristol RE service bus was equally impeccable in every way – not least in tidy professional ECW appearance. A well known driver who at one time used to write very balanced, sensible and informed articles about various models once gave the RE a wicked slating, saying that its road holding was nothing short of dangerous etc etc – I was amazed by this obviously genuinely meant opinion, and could only reflect on what he might have thought to a wet road and an AEC Swift with most of the load in the rear area !!
Chris Youhill
18/01/13 – 11:38
…..or a Leyland National 1…..
David Oldfield
19/01/13 – 06:21
I once caught the by then National Express coach from Wigan to Leeds in the mid seventies I was somewhat surprised when an ECW bodied RE West Yorkshire coach arrived. The ensuing ride was a bit of a Tardis moment; a superb ride in a seat that todays body builders would do well to study. A well driven bus complete with conductor of vintage years. Incidentally did ECW ever change the seat support design (on the aisle end) in the last 40 years prior to their final closure? All the ones I’ve ever seen look like they were designed in the thirties.
Chris Hough
19/01/13 – 06:53
Oh yes, Chris, those were the days…..
David Oldfield
19/01/13 – 09:48
I’ve done Penzance to Aberdeen over three days as a passenger in Roger Burdett’s Royal Blue RE a couple of years ago. Great comfort and large windows to look out of – very good indeed
Ken Jones
19/01/13 – 11:35
Yes David, CRG1 was indeed the Bristol RELH6B test bed vehicle you describe (chassis number REX003). It did have a turbocharged Bristol BHW engine fitted at one point while with Bristol C. V, which was based on a horizontal version of the BVW unit. As you say, it was later fitted with a Gardner 6HLX engine, and the body kitted out to full coach specification. The BHW engine never went into production, which was a pity in some ways, as the sound effects would no doubt have been quite interesting, whether in turbocharged or naturally-aspirated form.
Brendan Smith
19/01/13 – 14:40
I used to be quite pally with some of the drivers who worked these on the Newcastle/London run, and they all spoke very highly of them. To me they always looked dignified and quietly restrained in United’s olive green and cream coach livery ‘the vehicles that is and not the drivers’ sad to think that some of these coaches ended up in the anonymous all white corporate image livery of National Express
Ronnie Hoye
19/01/13 – 18:01
—- sorry but I think these vehicles looked really good in the NATIONAL livery and I’m glad that OTA 640G is carrying this livery in preservation. It looks sleek and stylish, but I know such a comment might upset people who always want to see vehicles in original liveries, but here again there are already a number of Bristol RE coaches preserved in Royal Blue livery.
Ken Jones
20/01/13 – 05:04
Ken. You could be right, but a Duple or Plaxton looks horrendous. The ECW gets away with it because of its parallel straight line.
David Oldfield
20/01/13 – 12:26
My point is not so much that they didn’t look nice, some types suited the livery very well, but it was the fact that they all looked the same. Pre NBC the BET group used a wide variety of vehicles with many instantly recognisable liveries, but even the more uniform Tilling fleets still had a certain amount of individuality, Royal Blue and United being classic examples. However, when they became NBC they lost all that and became anonymous and boring.
Ronnie Hoye
20/01/13 – 12:28
In the mid 1970s I used to travel quite frequently between Purley and Eastbourne by National Express. The vehicle that usually turned up was a National Travel (South East) [aka Timpson] Bedford YRQ carrying a Willowbrook Spacecar body, and the thing always made a meal of the gradients along the Caterham Valley and across the Weald. The standard of ride was truly awful, pitching and bouncing over quite ordinary road surfaces, and the bodywork itself seemed to be exceedingly plastic and crude. At weekends, the outbound trip from Purley was sometimes duplicated by an RE such as that shown in Ken Jones’s photo, and the contrast in high passenger comfort and effortless road performance could not have been greater. Having driven YRQs with bus bodywork, I suspect that much of the problem with the NT(SE) coaches was the Spacecar body, which soon acquired a notorious reputation for fragility. The Bristol RE was an outstanding design, and Stokes couldn’t wait to kill it off in favour of the Leyland National.
Roger Cox
03/03/13 – 07:57
An RE was the best for the passenger and the driver. It did depend on the suspension type and I drove my first one in the mid 60s for United Counties from Northampton to London. Once on the motorway she could be opened up and the front seemed to rise slightly and she was away. The steering was good and ideal for town work as well. Going through was a doddle. I drove a lot of RE’s for the Royal Blue and they were just as good. They were good for luggage also which helped to distribute the weight. They would not cope with the size of some of the suitcases which are in use these days.
Jim Stapleton
03/03/13 – 10:49
The ECW coach body on the RE was a thoughtful blend of traditional and modern design based on excellent engineering and quality standards of build. At the time there were a good number of outstanding looking (and quality) coach bodies available on a Leopard and Reliance chassis and of course BMMO had their own excellent contender, but for pure class in every department nothing beat the RE/ECW combo and it survived to look the least bland in National’s so called livery.
Phil Blinkhorn
14/06/13 – 12:11
Diesel Dave’s comment regarding the difficulty in hearing the engine to time gear changes, reminds me of the many journeys I made between Newcastle and Leeds on these vehicles. Most drivers kept the cab window open to hear the engine/exhaust. One chap though, who I regarded as the absolute expert, used a different technique. On the up changes, the gear lever would be offered very gently to the next position. You could see the stick vibrate but such was the delicacy of touch that no grating sound could be heard. When the revs were right, the vibrating ceased and the lever just fell into the next gear! At the other end of the scale we once had a Northern General driver (I have no idea why) who had never driven an RE before. We crunched and ground our way south with the driver trying to avoid changing gear whenever possible. To his credit, he admitted that the problems were down to him and not the bus.
Bob Hunter
29/12/13 – 16:21
When I started work at Keighley depot there was DX types SMGS SMAS SRGS VRS LHS lots of conductors the real thing always on time very rarely missed not has comfortable I remember KDX 39-44 69-71 93-96 KDX 133-145 162-166 I think KDX 138 was based at Skipton along with VR 44 later to be 1944 SRGS were good to drive with the semi auto-gearbox I went to Lowestoft to bring back the Leyland Olympian I brought 1801 I think it had a Vorth gearbox 2 more of my fellow drivers brought 1802 1803 these were taken to Harrogate then later they came to Keighley also around that time the Leyland National was introduced the DXs and SRGs where disappearing.
John French
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
26/06/17 – 07:20
Well good folks of OBP, I have to apologise most profusely, and especially to our David O, for peddling mis-information on 18.1.13 relating to West Yorkshire’s CRG1. I have only just realised, whilst browsing on OBP that CRG1 was not WY’s only E-regd RELH. For some inexplicable reason I had totally forgotten about CRG2-4 (PWR 858-860E). I could blame this on the ‘short’ E-registration letter year (‘F’ suffix registrations commencing in August 1967, heralding the letter suffix ‘year’ changing from January to August) or I could blame teenage excitement on the arrival of the five dual-door RELL6Gs (SRG34-38:PYG 652-656E) overshadowing all else, but it was neither. I’m now off to eat a large slice of humble pie with a few green beans!
Crosville Motor Services 1966 Bristol RELL6G ECW DP50F
Crosville had a very large operating area, and Aberaeron Depot was almost 100 miles from the Company’s headquarters at Chester. Here we see three of the Company’s earlier RE’s lined up in the Depot yard. ERG 595 registration HFM 595D was one of Crosville’s only three examples of the RELL6G in it’s earliest version, with manual gearbox and the first style of ECW bodywork. These three vehicles were the first dual-purpose RELL’s, previous dual purpose RE’s for other operators having been based on the RELH chassis. These three vehicles were new in the short lived dual-purpose livery of cream with a single green band. Although fitted for OMO from new, they were initially used with conductors on the Chester – Caernarfon “Cymru Coastliner” service. Eventually ERG 593 and 595 were eventually transferred to Aberaeron depot, where they were used on the lengthy services southwards from Aberystwyth. At the end of their lives they were fitted with bus seats to increase their capacity on school workings. SRG 10 registration OFM 10E was a standard RELL6G bus, one of the earliest examples with semi-automatic gearboxes and the second body style. Although the long bus version was the most common variant of the RE model, only about a third of Crosville’s 317 RE’s were of this type. CRG 496 registration 5458 FM was a 1963 RELH6G coach, one of Crosville’s first quartet of RE’s. Having been used on the Liverpool – London express services, it was now living a quieter life in rural Mid-Wales.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Don McKeown
26/09/13 – 06:42
RE; my favourite rear engined bus; RELH; second only to the ZF Reliance in my coaching affections. Ironic that I’ve only just posted (with the King Alfred Bridgemaster) about the abortive attempts to put AH691s into REs. A very nice shot of a classic trio.
David Oldfield
26/09/13 – 18:04
I totally agree with you David. One man operating was more of a pleasure when driving an RE, and for me the longer the journey the better. I’d rather drive a country service any day than monotonous town services around Cambridge. We had two of the manual gearbox RE’s which were referred to by everyone as RS’s. They had a top speed of about 80+ which I discovered one day on the 428 service to Bedford. I hadn’t any passengers on at one stage of the journey, and kept my foot down on a long straight section to satisfy my curiosity. The later RE’s with semi-auto gear selection were my absolute favourites especially the coaches…. luxury for both passenger and driver.
Norman Long
27/09/13 – 07:01
Yes, Norman. I had a RELL6L on the M4 once which just flew. (I had to reign back because the unladen front was coming off the road surface.) …..and I fully agree about the RELH – true luxury for driver and passenger.
David Oldfield
27/09/13 – 10:56
One of the best coach journeys I ever made was aboard an ECW coach bodied RE. The seats were very comfortable the leg room adequate and the coach gave a wonderfully smooth ride. The coach was far from new but would still knock modern stuff into a cocked hat.
Chris Hough
28/09/13 – 07:21
For a while I lived in Chipping Sodbury and worked in Bristol, and my evening journey home was usually on a semi-automatic RELH6L coach cascaded to bus duties, which made for an extremely relaxing end to the working day. The only problem was that because 234&5 on the gear selector were in the same positions as 123&4 on the more familiar four-speed version, the drivers changed gear at the same speeds. So the engine never really got into its stride before changing up – most frustrating, and a good thing there were no serious hills on the journey!
Peter Williamson
29/09/13 – 10:45
A delightful trio. I concur with the praise of the RE coach. I was smitten from a young age by long Royal Blue journeys from Victoria Coach Station to Bridport and Perranporth. And those preserved today are still robust, strong and comfortable, with none of the rattles and harshness of modern coaches. I believe that the manual gearbox version had the edge on top speed, although the semi auto might have been an easier driver’s coach.
Petras409
30/09/13 – 15:41
In the early 1970’s, I and my young family were fairly frequent users of the overnight Scottish coach service from Edinburgh to London Victoria (then travelling on by coach to family in Clacton or Portsmouth). The coaches were the stylish Alexander M-type, supplied on a variety of chassis. At one point, SBG distributed a survey to all the passengers, and I remember completing one part of the comments section with my opinion of the ride the different makes offered! Who knows what the recipients thought of that. I don’t recall what comments I made about AEC (sorry, guys) or Seddon (not sure whether these had been introduced at the time). But I do know that I stated I found the Leyland Leopards hard or harsh on springing, and the Bristol REs a nice soft ride for a night-time sleep. (But, regrettably – and a pointer to the future – , I found that Volvos were the most comfortable on this journey). So I can largely concur with the comments here on the Bristol RE in it’s other forms as coach and bus – even though I am not a driver. (And, yes, some drivers on the SBG service really did make a change en-route on the motorway, with the vehicle in motion – I’m sure I wasn’t dreaming it!)
Michael Hampton
30/09/13 – 17:42
Well it was a party trick that H & S wouldn’t countenance now but lots of things happened when we were lads! As for Volvos, they were a later generation and cannot fairly or safely be compared.
David Oldfield
30/09/13 – 17:43
They were some long journeys, Michael, in time and distance. Your mention of moving driver-changing reminds me of one experience of this. Around 1970, my wife and I, impoverished, decided to have a cheap holiday and booked a Cosmos 10-day one to Lido de Jesolo for £29 each! I think it was rail to Dover, then a Belgian Railways passenger ferry to Ostende. A driver with an Alfa Romeo coach met us and off we went. After about an hour, we stopped by the side of the motorway and picked up another driver who took over and the original driver went to the back of the coach to sleep. The driver could not seem to get the hang of the eight-speed gearbox and there was a smell of burning. The original driver took over the wheel (without stopping) and carried on until we had a late-meal stop at Aachen. We were halfway back in the coach and, throughout the night, kept hearing loud talk and loud bursts of laughter from the front. When we stopped around 5am for a “comfort break” it transpired that the relief driver had disappeared at Aachen and the original driver had continued at the wheel, inevitably starting to fall asleep at the wheel periodically! Being British, those nearest the driver did not ask him to pull over and take a rest, rather they kept a close vigil and started the false loud chatter/laughter to wake him up whenever he drooped! We were glad to be well away from the drama at the front! Suffice to say we arrived safely and many more hilarious things, not bus-related, occurred during the holiday!
Chris Hebbron
01/10/13 – 06:30
About six years ago, I was involved in driving a summer time shuttle from Uxbridge to Les Deux Alps (in the south of France) taking students snow-boarding. To comply with hours, and also keep a tight schedule, we had four drivers – but we always stopped at proper halts by the road side. I had an interesting drive down the side of the mountain on a typical zig-zag road. Now changing on the move there would have been VERY interesting…..
David Oldfield
02/10/13 – 07:13
I never had the pleasure of driving an RELH6G, but I knew a couple of United’s drivers on the Newcastle/London route, and they spoke very highly of them. United always specified a lower seating capacity for the vehicles on this route, and the extra legroom made them very popular with passengers. They were worked hard, but well looked after. A six hundred mile round trip to London was nothing unusual for them, one crew took them down, then stay overnight or through the day, the vehicles went to London Transports Victoria depot, where they were cleaned out, refuelled and checked over before returning north with a different crew who had come south the previous night or day, then the same routine at the Newcastle end. On occasion, they were used on the Lowestoft or Glasgow runs, or on private hires and excursions. Some of them must have clocked up a phenomenal mileage during their lives.
Ronnie Hoye
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
02/12/13 – 11:22
Just came across this site whilst looking for a picture to show my kids of the type of buses I went to school on. Amazed to find the actual buses! From 1975 to 1980 I went from New Quay to school in Aberaearon, initially on older rounded front buses, possibly Bristol LS’, then from about 77 on these beauties. They were still in use when I finished school but were joined by a Leyland National, which for some reason we called ‘The Prison Bus’ can’t remember why, it may have had something to do with the plastic seats and lots of bars/grab rails. I think the white one on the right had big coach like opening roof vents that you could fit a school bag out of, don’t ask me how I know!
KRD 258F, Reading 258, is another of the operator’s Bristol RELL6G fleet, with Strachans of Hamble B34D body (and the tribute to Burlingham’s “Seagull” motif). She’s seen at Wisley airfield, arriving for the open day there on 4 April 2004. Since the organisers’ move from Cobham to Brooklands, these events are now held at the latter site.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
07/11/13 – 07:27
When these were delivered they were likened to milk floats by some observers!
Chris Hough
07/11/13 – 09:39
As an ardent supporter of centre exit buses this seems a grand motor to me, but is it perhaps an optical illusion that it seems very short for a 36 foot vehicle ??
Chris Youhill
07/11/13 – 11:44
These are (Series 2) RELL-6 models, a special model, only produced in 1967/8. Reading had 28 with Pennine and 14 with Strachans bodies. The only others were 2 for Warrington with East Lancs bodies making a grand total of 44. The standard Series 2 model was the RELL-3 of which there were 2657 built. The RELL-3 had an 18’6″ wheelbase for 36’0″ x 8’2½” bodies. The RELL-6 had a 17’6″ wheelbase for between 32’6″ and 36’0″ long bodies. Regrettably I do not know the exact length of the bodied RELL-6s, but I suspect Chris that you are correct – they are less than 36’0″ long. [Any Reading or Bristol experts out there to fill us in?]
David Oldfield
08/11/13 – 06:46
I think it is quite a striking looking bus – enhanced by a good livery. Just wonder about reflections in the windscreens at night – they look very upright and flat in plan view.
Ian Wild
08/11/13 – 08:10
Apparently Reading were quite enamoured of their Burlingham Reliances and basically wanted the same again. Since Burlingham was no more it fell to Pennine and Strachans to put a modern twist on the original – and this is what they got, along with the “Burlingham” motif on the front.
David Oldfield
08/11/13 – 11:43
These were probably 32ft 6ins but, for some reason 32ft 9ins sticks in my mind!
Phil Blinkhorn
08/11/13 – 18:06
Can anyone supply a photo of the Pennine version? I assume that they too, were a good copy.
Chris Hebbron
09/11/13 – 06:13
Reading seems to have had a penchant for nonstandard versions of chassis and bodies. The Dennis Lolines were of an intermediate length also. A picture of a Pennine bodied Reading RE may be seen here:- www.sct61.org.uk/
Roger Cox
09/11/13 – 08:23
Just ferreted out of Simon Butler’s book on the RE that these were, indeed, 33’0″ long.
David Oldfield
09/11/13 – 09:01
Thanks for clarifying the length David. As regards the Birmingham style motif, all Reading single deckers after the Burlingham batch had this or a variation. These were built by Duple Northern in Blackpool after Burlingham had been taken over, Neepsend, Strachans and Pennine. Of course Reading also adorned the front panels of its Trolleybuses with additional brightwork.
Phil Blinkhorn
09/11/13 – 12:09
I assume Birmingham is a typo rather than a Freudian slip Phil?
David Oldfield
09/11/13 – 12:44
It’s the *!”**!! predictive text on my tablet.
Phil Blinkhorn
09/11/13 – 17:50
Keep taking the tablets, Mr Blinkhorn!!!!
Pete Davies
10/11/13 – 07:53
Until I saw your typo, Phil, I’d not even considered how close Birmingham and Burlingham were!
David Oldfield
11/11/13 – 15:24
On their home turf we called them “cattle trucks”. I though they were very good-looking vehicles, and certainly distinctive. The problem lay not in the buses themselves but in the politics and twisted economics that insulted passengers by forcing them to stand, when car-drivers were being cosseted and effectively subsidised. Within 3 years of the opening of a huge competitor on a “retail park” our local pet-shop has just closed. Irrelevant? No: hypermarkets have it easy, basking in a favourable economic and planning climate that makes life very hard for small shops. By the way, I loathe the word “standee”…
Ian Thompson
12/11/13 – 06:04
Ian, I totally agree with your comments regarding the “twisted economics” of forcing passengers to stand while cars (aka the competition) were steadily becoming more comfortable and affordable (and they even had heaters that worked – wowee wow wow!). The term “cattle trucks” describes such buses well, and one dreads to think of the consequences should such a bus have been involved in a head-on collision whilst fully loaded. Your loathing of the word “standee” is interesting, and maybe I can help with an alternative. A few years ago, Burnley & Pendle introduced a fleet of Optare Versas to the townsfolk of Burnley. Instead of being in B&P’s very attractive red and cream however, they were delivered in a new livery of yellow and orange (more akin to mustard and terracotta). Added to this they were adorned with the fleetname ‘Starship’. I have been reliably informed that within a few days of the buses’ introduction, their drivers were becoming tired of passengers tendering their fares and saying “beam me up Scotty!”. I did wonder at the time if any standing passengers should therefore be referred to as Klingons?
Brendan Smith
12/11/13 – 12:07
Ian, I agree. Undoubtedly the ‘standees’ would have gazed enviously upon the ‘sitees’.
Roger Cox
15/11/13 – 17:55
Visions of Klingons and Sitees really made my day! Wonderful how the imagemongers and we-know-besters always unwittingly provide the pins with which to burst the bubble of their own pomposity. Recently a train company (whose fleeting name doesn’t even escape me, as it was totally unmemorable) announced that rather than providing more seats it was considering bumrests for non-sitees to lean against, presumably qualifying these unfortunate travellers as propees–or would that be better spelt proppees? A search led me incidentally to one Tim Leunig, an economist who would love to see Margaret Thatcher’s Serpell Report revived with massive railway closures, and who actively encourages the standing-room-only approach. Watch out for him: he’ll be at (but not ON) the buses next.
Ian Thompson
16/11/13 – 08:43
Sounds like South Eastern Trains – the white ones out to Kent.
David Oldfield
16/11/13 – 08:44
Interesting Ian – I confess I used to support the standing room only brigade – for the London commuter belt. It seemed a good way to encourage them to look for more congenial places to live and work! Unfortunately, with increasing train speeds, the London commuter belt includes Wiltshire, Lincolnshire and Yorkshire etc. now, so that previously comfortable trains are forced to become sardine tins. Travelling on a Worst Great Western HST in standard class is now like riding in a toastrack. Cross-Country is just as bad, and they don’t even have the excuse of “serving” London commuters! Sorry for rant -let’s get back on topic!
Stephen Ford
16/11/13 – 08:44
I returned to Burnley recently having lived there in the late 1960’s. I can remember when Burnley and Pendle was Burnley, Colne and Nelson Joint Transport Committee.My wife and I lived near Queensgate Depot and were often lulled to sleep by the last Tiger Cub running in from Reedley Halt. The strange livery mentioned above is still in use but I must say the revamped bus station is much better than the old one. Very civilised unlike Salisbury where I now live where the bus station has been sold by the asset strippers and the streets are clogged up by parked buses.
Paragon
28/07/17 – 06:45
I used to drive the Reading RE’s from 1973 to 1979,they were my favourite buses in the fleet at the time,the semi – auto gears were a pleasure to drive although the steering was heavy with a full load on.The heating was almost non existent so you froze to death in the winter months. The only visible difference between the Strachan bodied ones and the Pennine bodies. was a bit more silver beading on the sides and front of the Pennine ones.
East Midland Motor Services 1968 Bristol RELL6G ECW B49F
East Midland was an early user of the Bristol RE/ECW combination once they became generally available. This example is seen in Bawtry on 13 July 1968 when it was about three months old. The rich red livery really suits the vehicle whilst the vertically mounted twin headlamps give a touch of class. How could NBC impose the lacklustre poppy red and leaf green schemes? East Midland even had to change to being a green fleet post 1972. Note the lack of sliding or hopper windows, in common with other BET Companies at this time ventilation is provided by three lift up ventilators in the roof. The only discordant note is the early style shallow windscreens which must have been a real problem to taller drivers.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
26/12/13 – 12:19
These were among the first non-Tilling RE’s that I saw and I remember being very excited at the prospect of Bristols becoming more common, perhaps even in the Manchester area; this did indeed happen, and for a while I was able to travel to work on North Western RE’s. I drove two or three of Crosville’s “shallow windscreen” RE’s, and beyond the excitement of driving an RE (we were the only Welsh Crosville Depot with no RE buses) I found that the low windscreen top added interest; the top of the windscreen was always in my peripheral vision, but not enough to cause a problem.
Don McKeown
26/12/13 – 14:27
Everyone praises REs. When I was in Widnes and working in a school garden. We had greenhouses about 50 yards from the road. Every hour a Crossville RE would come past and the greenhouses didn’t half rattle from the exhaust noise of these buses!
Jim Hepburn
26/12/13 – 18:02
In my South Yorkshire/North Derbyshire youth EMMS was a local operator to me. They operated AECs and Leylands – which they then dropped for Bristols. Well I could forgive the Leylands, but not the AECs. Nevertheless, as a student on the X67, travelling from Chesterfield to Manchester (and back) I grew to appreciate the RE more and more and – along with WYRCC on the Yorkshire services to London – to rate it second only to the 6U3ZR Reliance as a premium coach. Many a happy mile was added on visits to Tilling lands across the country – including the X43 from Leeds to Scarborough. …..and then the epic journeys from Manchester to Glasgow or Edinburgh by Ribble and the one off Eastern Scottish ex London RE. I could go on and on – oh sorry, I am doing – but the great joy has been to drive REs late in service life and then in preservation. A real. and deserved, classic. So what did EMMS do? Replaced RELH coaches on the X67 with Nasties – Green Mk I Nationals with slippery bus seats. […..but I bet they wouldn’t have without the strong arm antics from corporate HQ!]
David Oldfield
27/12/13 – 09:46
And they wondered why passengers deserted public transport for cars, David! Nice town, Chesterfield.
Chris Hebbron
27/12/13 – 09:55
Yes, very nice town.
David Oldfield
28/12/13 – 08:03
When TBAT broke up in 1942, certain firms “switched” allegiance. [NBC and BLMC strong arm tactics were nothing new.] Cumberland, United and Lincolnshire were Leyland operators. North Western was a Bristol operator and went from Tilling to BET. It was natural for North Western to take to Bristols with alacrity when they became available in 1965. I do not know the provenance of East Midland, but pre-war they were a Bristol operator and so their renewed allegiance to Bristol should not have come as a surprise. [Their roots were in the local independent, Underwood.] The big surprise – to Leyland Motor Corporation as well – was how readily Ribble and Southdown both took to Bristols. In all the above cases, it was both the RELL and the RELH which were the major swing factors.
David Oldfield
28/12/13 – 10:57
Having re-read my last post, it occurred to me that the bulk of RE buses operated by North Western, Ribble and Southdown were actually RESL – both RESL6G and RESL6L.
David Oldfield
28/12/13 – 13:49
I agree with earlier comments regarding the tasteful shade of red used in this era of East Midland operation. I never did like the corporate NBC colours, especially that awful green, and can only guess how good these would have looked in the EM chocolate, cream and biscuit livery! I spent some time in the old county of Huntingdonshire and frequently travelled between Huntingdon and Saint Ives on United Counties. Often my carriage would be TBD 280G, a dual-purpose RELH6G, new in 1969. This was a most comfortable bus to ride and was in the much better reversed livery of cream and green. Happy days.
Les Dickinson
28/12/13 – 14:44
Here we go again on the subject of livery, who did have the best? Personal taste and where you grew up would have the most influence on your answer. United’s reverse DP livery looked good on most of the single deck fleet, but, although I cant remember any being done this way, I don’t think it would have transferred to double deckers. OK Motor services always looked smart, but probably too time consuming to be practical for a large fleet? For smart plain and simple, you would go a long way to find better examples than Sheffield or Darlington, Midland Red, on the other hand, was in most cases too plain and simple, but few would argue that the all one colour of Glenton was drab or ugly. Bright colours or subdued? The orange and yellow of Yelloway was bright and cheerful, but the black, white and grey of Woods of Blackpool “Seagull Coaches” or the olive green and cream coaches of United were to my mind a classic. Its a question without answer, but it produces some good comments.
Ronnie Hoye
29/12/13 – 14:54
Right now? I’d give anything to go back to the days of NBC/PTE corporate liveries – there was more variety about then than there is now . . . and at least tickets weren’t standardised under NBC. I’ve just finished under-coating the cloak-room wainscot/door, in preparation for a deep blue gloss, and I’ve been struck by the similarity in colour/finish between my undercoat and First’s new livery – OK, I’ll give First a couple of weeks before their colours dull to a matt-like finish. And we don’t even have “proper” local fleet-names anymore, and many of the local-authority operators have disappeared. Anyway, back to the picture . . . wasn’t EMMS red a shade called “BET red”, and common with other companies(?) in the group?
Philip Rushworth
29/12/13 – 17:47
I don’t think that there was a ‘BET’ shade of red. East Midland used a deeper, more maroon shade than nearby Trent, PMT and North Western all of whom seemed to use a slightly different shade of brighter red.
Ian Wild
30/12/13 – 07:10
EMMS red was closer to Ribble than any other BET red. It was stated emphatically that neither was maroon. As Ian says, none of the other three were an identical shade of red. That was the beauty of BET liveries – and of course SUT was unique. In fact the whole set up was unique – and certainly pretty special – since SUT was equally owned by EMMS, Tracky and NWRCC but neither followed the vehicle purchasing nor the operating practises of any of its owners.
David Oldfield
30/12/13 – 11:50
W. T. Underwood was far from being a local independent operator. It was an offshoot of United Automobile Services of Lowestoft. The manager of U.A.S. Mr. E. B. Hutchinson sent one of his ‘bright young men’ W. T. Underwood to Clowne in North Derbyshire in 1920 to establish bus services in the area. The vehicles were supplied from Lowestoft in the United livery of that time of chrome yellow and brown, later separated with a cream band. The United fleet name was covered over with a board bearing the name of Underwood in the same style. In 1927 the company was re-named East Midland Motor Services Limited. At this time W. T. Underwood left the company to pursue other interests. Although United A. S. changed their livery to red around 1930, East Midland retained the old yellow brown and cream livery until 1955. East Midland were under Tilling Group Control until 1942 when control passed to B. E. T.
John Bunting
02/01/14 – 17:29
I wasn’t surprised at BET companies buying Bristol REs as soon as they were available, simply because by that time all the alternative rear-engined single deckers already had questionable reputations, whereas the RE had been giving trouble-free service to Tilling Group operators since before any of them was invented. Unfortunately I wasn’t so keen on RE buses as many enthusiasts, as I’ve never thought much of the interior finish of ECW bus bodies, and I was never in the right place at the right time to sample anything else. Not having to operate or drive them, I much preferred the Leyland Panther. Coaches of course were a different matter.
Peter Williamson
03/01/14 – 07:59
But Peter, you can’t blame Bristol for the ECW body! Even under common National ownership they were never the same company.
David Oldfield
06/01/14 – 07:57
Although having a big soft spot for the late lamented RE in general, my favourites to ride on were always the Series I, and early Series II models with the shallower windscreen. The RE was designed from the outset with air suspension, which gave a very smooth ride. However, the system did have a few problems relating to short airbag life, especially on stage carriage vehicles, and as a result many operators converted their airbags to coil springs. This fairly straightforward conversion still endowed the RE with a nice ride, but around 1969/70 Bristol’s new masters Leyland decided that the air/coil suspension system would become an optional extra, and that the standard RE would now have traditional leaf springs. Although it could be argued that this simplified the design from an engineering point of view, the result was a rougher-riding RE, which now rattled and banged over uneven road surfaces. This backward step was also said to be the cause of problems relating to increased vibration, movement and cracking around the drop-frame at the front of the chassis. On the ECW bus bodies this led to front domes cracking or working loose, and problems with the flooring and step at the front entrance. The newly introduced BET windscreens also seemed more prone to cracking – surely not a coincidence, as the BET Group had been using the screens successfully for years. Despite these shortcomings, the RE still remained a dependable ‘engineers bus’ to the end, with major units logically laid out for ease of maintenance, repair or removal. There were plans for a Series III RE, which would probably have had improved ‘second generation’ air suspension, and options of more powerful engines. However, as we all know, Leyland had other ideas, and scrapped the RE to give its new integral National a clear field.
Brendan Smith
09/11/14 – 17:01
During the 70s I drove for Royal Blue based at Victoria coach station London. I have fond memories of my time there and in particular driving Bristol REs ECW bodied. I preferred the manual gearbox which could be hard work at times especially on the long routes London to Plymouth or Penzance, the semi automatics did reduce the work load but I felt that I had more control with the manual. I dove most of the routes over the West country and into Dorset, I recall lining up for the tight turn into the down ramp which was Bournemouth coach station. In the later years Leyland joined the fleet with Plaxton bodies but I still preferred the REs in my opinion the finest coach ever to be built. I still think back and recall all my colleagues and I still have copies of the timetable and drivers handbook with route directions which I cherish with much love.
Ernest Goldie
12/01/15 – 07:05
EMMS red was ‘BET Dark Red’ and was the same shade as City of Oxford MS, Northern General and Yorkshire Woollen District. Due to differing paint suppliers the actual shade could vary slightly, even on buses within the same fleet. Trent, Yorkshire Traction, North Western all used ‘BET Light Red’, again for the above reasons the actual shade could vary slightly. Midland Red and Ribble both had individual colours not within the BET colour catalogue and referred to by the company name, i.e. ‘Ribble Red’.
Rob F
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
09/04/15 – 07:02
If you look at the livery style of East Midland Bristol VR’s that were delivered at the same time you will notice it looks more a Mansfield District style only in red. A company they were about to take over under NBC. Even after privatisation they stayed green.
Hants & Dorset Motor Services 1968 Bristol RELH6G Duple Commander III C48F
This photo taken in the early seventies at Bournemouth Square bus station shows Hants & Dorset No 918 one of a batch of five similar coaches delivered in June 1968 No’s 916-920 registrations MRU 124-128F these being Bristol RELH6Gs fitted with Duple Commander III bodies those on 916/917 being C40F whilst 918-920 were C48F, the Bristol/Duple combination was somewhat unusual. The RE was a vehicle I was undecided about but as my recent posting on the East Kent coaches shows I am a fan of the Duple Commander bodies especially the Mk III and Mk IV of which this is an excellent example in it’s restrained but elegant livery, note the full set of top sliding windows and the quarter lights a classic of it’s day.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Diesel Dave
13/03/14 – 07:48
Nice, Dave! Looks a lot better than the later livery of poppy and white . . .
Pete Davies
13/03/14 – 07:49
After the ZF Reliance, the RELH was easily the best coach of the ’60s and early ’70s. The ECW body was also superb but these Duple coaches came as welcome relief to the almost unrelieved Lowestoft fare. Only in the early ’70s did Plaxton get a look in – for about two years they provided NBC with only RELH coaches.
David Oldfield
13/03/14 – 17:02
To my eye, the Duple bodies of this period are marred by the truly dreadful Detroit ‘inspired’ front end treatment. One supposes that the perpetrator believed this to be in line with the public tastes of the time. Not in my case!
Roger Cox
14/03/14 – 05:45
Question for you Duple experts – is this a Commander III or IV? Looks like a IV to me comparing with the ones at PMT (3 x G and 2 x H Reg on AEC 691 chassis). The low mounted headlamps look like the IV or are these because of the front mounted Bristol RE radiator? The III version (to my mind) had a horrible front grille.
Ian Wild
14/03/14 – 16:27
Problem is, Ian. People don’t seem to agree. This is an earlier Commander – at a time when Viceroys had the earlier grille. I think the IV “came along” when the Viceroy also got this grille – about a year later. The IV’s lower dash and light units, was slightly different with lights in a perspex fairing and there was a Viceroyesque ribbed metal strip all along the side at between wheel arches level. This was the last hurrah for the Commander as the Commander V emerged as a Viceroy – the only Viceroy variant on heavy chassis. By this time, I think only AECs and Leylands carried the Viceroy.
David Oldfield
14/03/14 – 16:27
Hello Ian This is definitely a Commander III. The ‘horrible’ front grill was on the Commander II, and the early Viceroy, which also had those bulging twin headlights. The only awkward thing about the Mk III for me is the kink in the lower body line, just behind the front wheels. The Commander IV was the stylish design by Carl Olsen that also appeared on the later Viceroy. The headlights were recessed behind a glass panel and lined up with a ribbed aluminium band which continued unbroken along the lower body side. I don’t think the quarter lights and sliding windows were so common on these later marks.
Mike Morton
14/03/14 – 17:45
The awkward kink in the lower body line is in fact the easy way to distinguish the Mark III from the Mark IV plus the ribbed aluminium band mentioned by Mike which was matched by a similar band above the window line. Overall the changes were small but a hugely significant improvement to the design.
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
