Photorapher unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1949 AEC Regal III Roe B33F
Now this is one of my favourites I have travelled miles on this bus, we had a bus club trip on this bus but unfortunately I can not remember where we went, over to Lancashire I think. This bus with its very smart Roe body was originally delivered with rear entrance in 1949 but was converted to front entrance in 1954 and became a B33F. I can remember the way the driver had to open the doors by pulling an in cab lever about 3 foot from front to back or vice versa to close them, all mechanical no such luxury as air pressure. What is a bit strange is that the Regal had a four speed crash gearbox, I wonder why the preselect gearbox wasn’t available seeing that it was standard for the Regent RT from 1938 and optional from 1947 for the Regent III.
Strictly speaking, the preselect box was standard on all Regent/Regal IIIs, from 1947 especially with 9.6 engines. Sheffield, like Halifax, is particularly mountainous and both authorities specified non-standard AECs for a number of years. [Pre-war they continued to have 8.8 engine long after the 7.7 had become standard.] It is generally agreed that a manual box gives more ultimate control than an epicyclic box – especially in hilly conditions. Sheffield went from preselectors to manual in 1952 for Regent III and Regal IV and stuck with manual box AECs, and Leylands, until 1961.
David Oldfield
Sorry wrong, they had pre selector gearboxes and I am sure 9.6 engines, 73 and 74 were similar Regal chassis built with double deck bodies, I am sure about the pre selector as I often climbed in the cabs of this and 269 at the back of Elmwood depot but as can be seen the door move seriously weakened the body which fell apart, the chassis would have lasted forever.
Christopher
I checked they definitely had 9.6 engines
Christopher
The pre select gearbox was designed by a Major Walter Gordon Wilson and was originally for use by British army vehicles but London Transport & Daimler made good use of it. Daimler also used it in some of their cars.
Trevor
23/11/13 – 13:48
Peter mentioned in his caption (a long time back !) that he remembered 268 being used on a bus club trip to Lancashire or somewhere. It’s taken long enough to find it, but here is my own admittedly rather poor photo of it whilst on such a trip outside Bolton Corporation’s depot in about 1965 or 1966. We visited Rochdale, Bury and Bolton Corporation’s depots on that occasion, and here it is posed alongside a contemporary Crossley SD42 which was at the time being used by Bolton’s Welfare Department and I believe was the one that was later preserved.
John Stringer
26/11/13 – 07:29
Thanks John for jogging my memory I do not remember Rochdale but I was at Bolton if you go to this link I am on the right. I unfortunately did not have a camera in those days.
I do not have much information on Harper Bros but Heath Hayes is approximately 3kms east of Cannock, Staffordshire. If you have any information and would like to share it please leave a comment. From what I have come up with they were taken over by Midland Red Omnibus Company Limited (MROC) in September 1974, the depot at Heath Hayes was closed and the buses were moved to a new Midland Red depot at Cannock. I am not sure who built the body for the above coach but if I had to guess Duple would be fairly high on the list. This style of body was called an half canopy as there was no roof over the bonnet and nearside mudguard as apposed to an half cab which did. The Harper Bros livery was a light grey green with white mudguards and in the case of this coach a white roof not sure if the white roof was standard for all the fleet. Is there anybody who can explain the difference if there is one between Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company Limited (BMMO) and Midland Red Omnibus Company Limited (MROC). If you know please leave a comment.
You are spot on, TRE 251 has a Burlingham C33F body as had sister vehicle TRE 241. Both new in 1950. TRE 251 was scrapped in Nov 1968, TRE241 not traced. Harper Bros had 9 AEC double deck buses & 6 AEC coaches from 1930 to the mid 1960s. If anyone requires information on Harper Bros I will gladly try to answer any queries.
Mick Bullock
The Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co Ltd (BMMO) was established on 26 November 1904. BMMO was commonly known as Midland Red & used the fleet name Midland on its distinctive red buses. After losing Birmingham services to the new West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive (WMPTE) BMMO was renamed to the Midland Red Omnibus Co Ltd (MRO) on 29 March 1974. MRO lasted until 6 September 1981 when it was divided into six independent companies: Midland Red (North) etc. Enthusiasts can learn all this & much more at Adam Harber’s excellent www.midlandred.net website.
Peter Walford
24/03/11 – 08:38
Hi I am seeking fleet list of Harpers from there start to BMMO sell out. Any costs will be met.
John Hellewell
07/07/11 – 06:38
I now live in Cheshire and have done since 1960, I was born in Walsall Wood during the war. I remember Harpers bus service very well and used it till it was taken over, sad day. It was in my mind the best bus service I have ever known, I wish I had kept some of the early tickets which were about 3 inches by 2, all different colours and individual. The half fare for me was tuppence from Streets corner to Aldridge, If I came out of the house late and did not get to the bus stop they would pick me up, I remember in 1965 getting the bus to Aldridge and my girl friend getting on in Aldridge and she was late, John Morson the driver would shout don’t get off Jim we will wait for her. I know this is not much but you may draw something from it.
Jimmie Charles
07/07/11 – 08:09
What a lovely romantic story, Jimmie – the driver knew what romance was all about! Were that service was like that today!
Chris Hebbron
08/07/11 – 06:19
Thanks Chris, I have very little to offer but one thing stays in my mind, they had a double decker that was different to the others, when you went upstairs the aisle did not go down the centre with twin seats either side but went down the off side of the upper deck with seats on the left which seated 4. does that make sense. If I can think of any more useless info I will let you know.
Jimmie Charles
09/07/11 – 07:05
Hi Jimmie the double decker you refer to is what was classed as a Low Bridge Decker by having the aisle along the offside meant the roofline could be lower, the normal height would be 14’6 a low bridge if I remember correctly was around 13’6. I stand corrected but I think the fleet number was 3, if you remember you had to step up from the aisle into the seats and downstairs you had to mind your head if you sat by the offside window. I used to work for Harpers for a few years from 1964 both part time and full time conducting and driving (happy days) so if their is anything that you want to know and I can give you the answer I will
Phil Burton
09/12/11 – 08:33
Jimmie you have brought back a lot of memories. I to was born in Walsall Wood and remember Harper Bros with affection both for Bus services… Cannock through Brownhills to Kingstanding; Saturday Football Coaches to Villa, WBA and Wolves, and Saturday Holiday Coaches to North Wales resorts, New Brighton, Southport and Blackpool. In school holidays worked at their Aldridge Garage taking Holiday and Day Trip bookings. Most reliable and considerate firm out, our annual trip to Colwyn Bay would never have been the same, especially as coach hardly made the big hills at times, or had to pull in and wait to cool off. Still have a model Guy Arab in their colours, prized possession.
Ken Paskin
01/04/12 – 08:36
Has John Hellewell managed to acquire a Harper Bros fleet list yet, as I could supply him with one if required.
Mick Bullock
15/04/12 – 07:35
I think Jimmie’s referring to KRE 849, Harper’s fleet no. 24, a Burlingham lowbridge bodied Guy. Mick – any chance of a copy of your fleet list, please?
Graeme Fisher
04/07/12 – 05:14
I remember Harpers with great fondness as a young lad from the 1960’s when a bus conductor called Jack used to let me ring the bell on journeys between Hednesford and Aldridge. I am always on the look out for photos from this period and as someone has mentioned I also would love a fleet list. If anyone can.
Keith Harley
17/07/12 – 07:11
Phil and Jimmie The lowbridge double decker was fleet number 24, KRE 849 with Burlingham bodywork.
Graeme Fisher
21/07/12 – 07:43
Graeme Thanks for the confirmation, I wasn’t sure of the fleet number as I was only a child when I used to ride on it from Cannock to Kingstanding on Saturday afternoons with my dad who used to conduct it as well as other buses in the fleet, happy memories. When I worked for Harpers it was long gone.
Phil Burton
23/07/12 – 07:53
I would also be interested in a Harpers fleet list.
Alan Nicholls
22/09/12 – 06:57
The depot at Heath Hayes wasn’t closed when Harpers were taken over, I think Midland Red used it for 3/4 years before opening the new depot at Cannock. When Midland Red lost a significant proportion of its operating area (and depots) to WMPTE, it found itself short of depot capacity and therefore reopened a depot at Cradley Heath which had closed some time earlier. When the Cannock depot was opened, both Heath Hayes and Cradley Heath depots closed. (Yes, I know Cradley Heath is nowhere near Cannock, there must have been a bit of a swap about of routes). I believe that some of the staff from Cradley Heath actually transferred to Cannock, which must have been something of a hike for them. Incidentally, after the loss of routes to WMPTE Midland Red publicly stated that it was on the acquisition trail – so it wasn’t too much of a surprise when, before too long, it had bought not only Harpers but also Green Bus of Rugeley.
David Call
02/10/12 – 15:22
I remember the Cannock garage, My uncle drove for Harpers and lived in the house next to the garage. I’m no sure if the house an garage are still there. Does anyone have any photos of Harpers Garage in Cannock?
Merv
27/10/12 – 05:57
Harper’s garage at Heath Hayes was demolished some time ago and replaced by housing. Their small garage at Aldridge survives as a carpet shop. As others have said, they were a special operator in their day and sold out because Albert Harper wished to retire and no other family member was interested.
Tony Martin
07/02/13 – 06:42
I have very fond memories of Harpers of Heath Hayes as my father, the late Joe Martin was a driver for them during my childhood in the 1950’s and 60’s. I can remember a couple of other drivers, Jack Slater, Ernie ??? We lived in the village too, so I was always going on trips during school holidays with the Labour Club, The Cons Club etc. I have a photo of my dad pictured at a reunion of drivers and staff some years ago, which I will dig out and place here. I also have some black and white photos of a couple of trips with all the children, mothers and even Nurse Girdlestone assembled (a local Heath Hayes character from the 50’s and 60’s!) They show just how many people were transported to lovely places for the day by several drivers on the same day. It was like a coach convoy! My friend’s late mother also worked in the office at the Harpers garage on the Stafford Road in Cannock, her name was Vera Sherratt and we still often talk about this great local company, who served this area of the Midlands very well. My parents originally met on my dad’s bus too on the route to Chapel Ash. In later years he gave up his job as a driver for Harpers before Midland Red took over, to work in my mothers grocery shop in Mill Street, Cannock – he always said he felt like his driving wings had been clipped! Sorry that my account is not too bus related, but this lovely company was always held in high regard by everyone that travelled with them.
Carol Jones
20/02/13 – 16:55
Hi Carol, I remember your late father both as a child, when my late father Cyril Burton worked different shifts with him as his conductor & some Saturdays I would have a ride to Kingstanding have a cup of tea in the billiard hall with Joe & my dad then ride back, also when your father would be the driver of an excursion to the seaside we would be going on, no motorways then. Also when I started part time with Harpers as a conductor I worked with him a few times but he did mainly excursions & private hire work then. Other drivers who would have worked for this iconic company at the time Joe was there & he would probably bring up in conversation would be George Brown, Jack Poiser, Joe Scott, Norman Mills, Eric Thacker, Les King, Ray Wilce, Tommy Owen, George & Bill Elsmore to name but a few. The people who were served by Harpers Buses & crews had no idea what a great reliable service they had until 1974 when they lost it, I bet they wish they had Harpers now.
Phil Burton
09/06/13 – 11:38
I remember Harpers well through my childhood and youth. They had a garage and small booking office at the corner of New Penkridge Road Cannock with Dartmouth Avenue. One of their renowned drivers was named Jim Brown and he lived nearby in New Penkridge Road and I was at school with his son Emlyn. My Aunt at Wedges Mills used to organise coach trips with Harpers through many summers late 40s early 50s – Rhyl, Blackpool, New Brighton, Evesham at blossom and fruit times and London all being popular Sunday destinations leaving happy memories. My Aunt was a nervous passenger and was always more nervous when Jim drove the coach as she considered him a “speed mad driver” and she often used to say ” He will kill us all” – in truth he was a good driver and she was just suffering from nervousness. Also recall that on Saturdays when Wolves were playing at home at 2pm a single deck and a double deck Harpers would pass through packed with supporters to the game. In the late 50s my method of transport to my first job was via Harpers single decker from Cannock (Rosas Cafe) to Brewood via Hatherton, Calf Heath and Four Ashes a life line for those places at that time..
Tony Bibb
10/03/14 – 14:53
I too used to travel on Harpers buses 1948-1964 I lived in Hatherton Village, Cannock. Yes the bus drivers used to know every ones ‘habits’ and would wait for any of their usual passengers if they were late. Conductors helped you on and off the bus with any luggage. I remember going to school one very deep snowy morning in Brewood, and the bus got stuck in a drift on Somerford corner, so the driver Harry, locked up the bus and actually marched us all round to our school in a line. Then went back to sort his bus out. Nothing was too much trouble for any of the drivers or conductors. One of the drivers I remember by name was Levi, and the guy that wore the brown overall, was he the Inspector Mr Cardman or something close to that name. Oh what memorable, pleasant happy days. Service with a smile always. It was a grand company.
Carole Mears
19/03/14 – 07:33
Hi Carole I think the names you are thinking about are possibly Levi Humphries and Athy Carden. Like you say pleasant happy days.
Phil Burton
11/08/14 – 09:54
It’s been a couple of years since I have been on this site, I am amazed how much has been added since then, I found the picture of the tickets interesting & remember them, however before those tickets which rolled out of a small machine when the handle was turned, the conductor & I do remember Jack if it’s the same man had a kind of wooden clip board which he took the individual tickets out & punched a hole in them, does anyone remember those wonderful different coloured tickets? Why didn’t I keep some. Also, after reading your articles I felt a warmth which you don’t get these days, also, I remember the day trips to Wales, a real treat for ordinary kids who had very little & there were plenty of us. How lucky we were.
Jimmie Charles
11/06/16 – 05:31
As a lad of 13 during the late 60s l went on many day trips with Harpers during the school holidays. My late mother and father would book the tickets for us from a little office in Park Road Sutton Coldfield,close to where we lived. We would meet the coach at a place called Harman Road and the adventure would start. We had no car and limited amounts of money, but Harpers helped to create some of the happiest memory’s of my life, l will never forget them and their ‘family ‘of friendly drivers.
John Starkey
19/06/16 – 05:55
I worked for Harper Bros in their Heath Hayes office from 1962-1974,then Midland Red 1974-1978. I did a short period of working at the ‘Gloria De Luxe Office in Sutton Coldfield, before moving to Head Office. Best time of my working life.
Pam Harris (Nee Dodd)
08/11/17 – 06:24
I remember Harpers Buses fondly from my early days. We lived in Stonnall and my Nan lived in Commonside Brownhills so we either got a bus to Streets Corner or the Brownhills bus to Freezeland Lane. We then moved to Aldridge and continued to use Harpers buses. Even our Bruce dog used them – he was a pretty savvy Corgi-Collie cross. He’d always gone on the buses with Mom and Dad and knew enough to hop on a bus at the corner of Leighswood Ave and Northgate, get under the seat and then get off at Streets Corner and go to my Great Grandad’s house and then, having found no one in, trot off round to Nan’s. He did a similar trick but went back to our old house in Main St Stonnall before going down to my Gran’s in Cartersfield Lane. He got away with this because the conductor, Levy who many will remember, knew him.
Chris Smith
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
07/03/20 – 07:25
As a lad of 17 I lived in Clacton-on-Sea and often took one of Suttons Coaches to London to visit my Grandfather. I very clearly recall the delivery in 1947 of New Leyland Tigers and AEC Regal III’s. A couple of times I travelled on the inaugural trip of one of these vehicles. While I am almost 90 I still recall those trips very clearly. I have trawled the web looking for pictures of these and my only find was A Tiger LVX 679 and LVX 680. I have found info on AEC Regal OTW 50 but no pictures. Do you have any ideas about places to look.
David Hawksworth
09/03/20 – 06:39
David if you use the search facility on the “Bus lists on the web” site it will bring up results from the “flickr” photo sharing site of OTW 50.
Stephen Howarth
09/03/20 – 06:40
A gentleman called David Troughton wrote a book on Suttons of Clacton a few years ago. I have a copy but can’t find a supplier on the internet.
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Lancaster City Transport 1949 AEC Regal III Strachans B36F
This in my mind is what an half cab single deck bus should look like, mind you the 50-50 split livery of this Lancaster Corporation does help. I’m not all that knowledgeable about Strachans bodybuilders I think I went on a Ford demonstrator which had a Strachans body once when it was on loan to Halifax Corporation. This bus was originally delivered new to Morecambe & Heysham Corporation along with its sister vehicle KTF 582, I’m not sure what fleet numbers they had when at Morecambe & Heysham, if you know please leave a comment. They were both transferred, sold or exchanged to nearby Lancaster in 1953, I think there was a close working relationship between the two corporations, I read somewhere that Lancaster actually took over Morecambe & Heysham bus fleet in the early seventies. Lancaster had a very strange way when it came to fleet numbering they used the registration number which meant out of there fleet of 37 buses in 1965 the lowest fleet number was 70 and the highest was 965, now that was different.
In 1974, local authorities were reorganised – the most dramatic being the invention of Metropolitan Counties such as Greater Manchester and Merseyside. The City of Lancaster borders were extended to include the boroughs of Morecambe and Heysham. As a result, Morecambe and Heysham buses came under common ownership with Lancaster – hence the take over.
David Oldfield
KTF 581/2 were new to Morecambe and Heysham in January 1950 and allocated fleet numbers 52/3. When new they were 35 seaters. They were withdrawn in 1951 and after a period in store were sold to Lancaster City Transport in October 1952. They entered service with their new owner in January 1953, being withdrawn in July 1967 and May 1968 respectively.
Just as a note, the Regent III double deckers delivered concurrently, 54-65 (KTF 583-594) had a much longer life in the resort, withdrawals taking place between 1974 and 1979, some of them converted to open-top.
Dave Towers
Just to add to the above, the Regals were converted for o-m-o in January and February 1957, Lancaster commencing such operations later that year, (a process completed in 1982). Of course one-manning of half cabs was not ideal with the driver having to swivel around to face passengers and take fares, but with a fairly small capacity would be manageable!
Dave Towers
The Lancaster and Morecambe & Heysham fleets were merged on April 1st 1974 when local government was reorganised and an enlarged City of Lancaster created from five separate councils, these being the existing Lancaster City Council plus Lancaster Rural District Council, Lunesdale District Council, Carnforth Urban District Council and Morecambe & Heysham Borough Council. Although only two of these councils operated buses it was decided that blue & white was to be used for all council vehicles as none of the constituent councils had used these colours on their vehicles (dustcarts, etc). There were a couple of experimental liveries tried before the decision on the blue and white livery was decreed, though I’m not sure if any saw the light of day.
Ian Simpson
21/01/12 – 17:22
You say you know little of Strachans bodies… I worked at Strachans Coachbuilders in the 1960’s at Hamble in Hants. They were originally in London and I believe linked with Duple before they moved to Hamble, but I must say that was passed on by word of mouth, how true that is would need confirmation. However I distinctly remember working on half cab deckers for Wolverhampton, (I wonder if any survived, I think they were Bristol chassis). and single deck pacemakers and pacesavers, and some rather nice looking coaches for Rickards which had a polished stainless steel hand made grill, which I, as an apprentice had to polish on the buffing wheel! I can still smell that buffing soap!! Sorry if I’ve ambled on a bit, call it a senior moment!
Pete Hatcher
22/01/12 – 06:43
Strachans are an enigma, and I would like to know more about them, Pete – so (H)amble on. As far as I am aware, the best Merlin/Swifts of London Transport were those early ones bodied by Strachans. Apparently they benefited from a type pf mounting which did not break the back of the bus – as the others were apt to do. If they could outdo the likes of Park Royal, Met-Camm and Marshall, why were they not better known and why did they not survive? Indeed, they seemed to fizzle out with no ceremony. [They also seemed to be a favourite of Aldershot and District for a time.]
David Oldfield
22/01/12 – 16:39
I’m glad its not only me who is a bit vague about Strachans. Unlike most body builders I don’t think there has ever been a book published about them even though they did have some high profile customers.
Nigel Turner
23/01/12 – 07:37
Apart from our common interest, it’s always nice to find that there are certain subjects which interest us particularly, I think Strachans must be one of them. I’ve always thought of them as something of an enigma because like Nigel says, they had some high profile customers and they had some nice designs too, like the vehicle above but they seemed to have more than their fair share of disasters, yet they were favoured with regular orders throughout the 1950 and 60’s. The post-war double deckers seemed to have been particularly bad, South Yorkshire’s Albions and West Riding’s Daimlers had to be heavily rebuilt and some operators found that re-bodying was the only answer. The worst of all were surely the Leyland PD1’s of Western SMT which lasted only three years before disintegrating! The Lancaster vehicle looks like a nicely balanced and well constructed bus but it known why they lasted a year at Morecambe? The fact that the pair went on to achieve eighteen and nineteen years service suggests that these were very durable vehicles.
Chris Barker
23/01/12 – 07:38
Re David’s comment about London Transport Merlins, I have heard exactly the same about Sunderland’s Leyland Panthers. Metro-Cammell bodied them conventionally and the rear of the bodies became distorted with the flexing of the chassis. Strachans mounted the rear body overhang on a cantilevered subframe separate from the chassis, and this was said to be much more successful.
Peter Williamson
23/01/12 – 07:39
Peter the Wolverhampton double deckers were locally built Guy Arabs used for trolley bus replacement duties.
Chris Hough
23/01/12 – 07:40
The Wolverhampton double deckers that Pete Hatcher worked on would be Guy Arab Vs, and the Rickards coaches were a unique batch on Dodge chassis.
Peter Williamson
23/01/12 – 10:09
Strachans also built quite a few coach/ambulances on Bedford 4.9 litre petrol engined chassis for the Ministry of Defence, I worked on them whilst with the REME in our LAD at Chilwell Depot (38 Central Workshops) in the 70’s
Roger Broughton
24/01/12 – 05:54
With regard to Chris Barker’s question about the short life of KTF 581/2 in Morecambe, there is an explanation in the new “Morecambe and Lancaster” book from Venture. I’ve actually loaned the book to a friend at the moment so I can’t be totally precise, but I believe Morecambe purchased them for a specific new service, which never actually got off the ground, and so they weren’t required in the resort.
Dave Towers
02/10/12 – 14:50
Message for Pete Hatcher (above). You may be interested to know that ex. Southampton City Transport No.1 Reg. No. JOW 499E a Strachans Pacemaster (Body No.40214) 1967 AEC Swift built at Hamble, has just been restored and put back on the road after 20 years dormant. You can get more information by going on the SADTHT website. SADTHT stands for the SOUTHAMPTON & DISTRICT TRANSPORT HERITAGE TRUST.
Terry Knappett
03/10/12 – 05:56
Didn’t someone (Alan Townsin perhaps) write a comprehensive history some years ago of Strachans & Brown/Strachans/Strachans Successors in one of the enthusiasts’ magazines (possibly Classic Bus in its superior days under Gavin Booth). I remember reading this series of articles, but I no longer have my old Classic Bus copies to confirm.
Roger Cox
03/10/12 – 05:57
I was once told (this would be the mid-1960s) that the two Morecambe & Heysham Regal IIIs were withdrawn and subsequently sold to Lancaster because the steps had proved too steep for the borough’s elderly residents. This came from an M & H conductor who seemed to speak with confidence, as if to suggest that he had been in the employ of M & H at the relevant time. I agree that this explanation does seem a little odd, bearing in mind that there would be elderly people in Lancaster as well – but no doubt not nearly as many.
David Call
29/10/12 – 07:09
Further to my post of January, I’ve now come across the reference to KTF 581/2 in Harry Postlethwaite’s book. He says that these vehicles were purchased for a service to Middleton Tower Holiday Camp which did not materialise (the service, not the camp!), as the camp decided to provide its own transport.
Dave Towers
12/11/12 – 10:51
For Pete Hatcher. The two top designers at Hamble were Colin Holt and Dave Hoy and Colin did all the design work for the first AEC London Transport “Red Arrow’s”. I was a drafting office apprentice from 1964 to 1970 and then returned later just prior to Strachans closing. It was a great place to work as we handled everything from single and double deck buses, military bus/ambulance conversions, semi-luxury coaches, Ford Transit vans and conversions, Military truck bodies on Bedford R series 4×4 chassis right through to special ‘one offs’ like the railcar for the Sadler Rail company. Mention has been made of the coaches for Rickards and these were unique as if memory serves me right, they failed the tilt test with the overhead parcel racks installed. They were re-tested with the parcel racks tied to the tops of the seats and the racks were installed when the coaches were shipped over to the continent. I was there when the first AEC Merlin bare chassis was delivered with a somewhat white faced driver. With the rear engine, the front wheels lifted off the road under acceleration, all subsequent chassis deliveries had boxes of engine blocks strapped on to keep the front wheels on the road. When Strachans closed I believe that both Colin Holt and Dave Hoy went to Duple and it would be interesting to contact them if they are still in the Blackpool area.
Dick Henshall
13/11/12 – 06:52
What a fascinating couple of tales, Dick; the sort of insider stories that help to make the bus subject so interesting.
Chris Hebbron
19/05/14 – 18:30
I worked on Lancaster corporation buses in the early 60s. Passed my test on a Crossley with a dodgy gearbox. Double decker’s in those days, were Guys, Crossley’s, and Leyland’s. Had to prime the Guy’s and start them with a rope on the starting handle. Single deckers, 2 Daimlers, one with only 14 seats.
G Seaman
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
20/06/16 – 06:35
The thing that puzzles me is why did M&H go to Strachans for these Regal’s bodies when at the same period they bought several batches of Regent with Park Royal bodies.
Keith Wardle
20/06/16 – 09:08
I can only think that, somehow, Strachans offered a better price!
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Devon General 1950 AEC Regal III Weymann B35F
It is amazing how many buses after serving their time as public service vehicles were bought by private companies as staff transport vehicles. I have quite a few and I will title them by their original owner but they will also be categorised under “Staff Transport” as well, thus giving another individual section of vehicles on the website. If you have any shots of staff transport vehicles send them along, if you don’t know the history no problem it can go on the “Do You Know” page first I am sure somebody will know. One of the problems with staff vehicles is that they just served a purpose of transporting workers, and their appearance really didn’t matter, hence in this case the overall single colour which makes it look rather drab. But if you ignore that you can see the lower body panels giving the Weymann flared skirt body and the distance between the windscreen and the top of the radiator which makes it look older than it really was. You can also see that the passenger doors closed inside the body at the top of the stairs rather than the bottom flush with the body panels. A sister vehicle to the one above was sold on to an independent bus operator, when I am reunited with my old copies of Buses Illustrated I will add the details, all I can remember at the moment is that it was in a small market town and seemed to be an all white livery.
27/02/12 – 13:53
Oh how this photo takes me back to 1964 when I was 10. I remember traveling on Devon General A E C Regents from Buckfastleigh to Newton Abbot. I spent almost 2 years in Hapstead House a home for sick children on the edge of Dartmoor, I still have that unique engine sound in my head of the A E C Regent, thank you for reminding me !
Frank Saint Clair
28/02/12 – 08:03
May I also share memories of seeing these operating in Dawlish during 1955 when my parents and I were staying in my Aunt’s house on Haldon Moor. We used to walk down from the Moor in the mornings but my Aunt refused to walk back so we caught the bus each evening. In 1956 we bought a caravan in Shaldon, near Teignmouth and I clearly recall seeing several Devon General vehicles parked in a small square/stand. Sadly, being only 7/8 years old I didn’t have a camera and have never seen any pictures of the scene since. It’s a place on my list to return to. Have any of these DG AEC’s survived into preservation please?
Richard Leaman
29/02/12 – 17:23
Yes Richard one of the Regals survives there was a recent (2011) picture in a recent issue of Buses magazine
Chris Hough
25/08/19 – 07:47
Browsing again, I came across a photo of this vehicle taken at Newton Abbot bus station in rather better paint condition on 23/9/1961. I had been on a day trip to Buckfast Abbey (by car). These vehicles always looked to be giving everyone a severe frown!
Geoff Pullin
26/08/19 – 07:00
Buckfast Abbey … memories not of Diesel smells but treacle tart!
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1949 AEC Regal III Roe B32R
A Halifax Regal III bus in coach livery of all over cream with an orange waistband, there was no difference whatsoever that I know of between this Regal and one in the usual green orange and cream except the livery. This shot shows very clearly how this vehicle has been converted for one man operation by the layout of the windows to the left of the drivers cab, I think this conversion would have happened at a later date than the rear to front entrance conversion of 1953/4. You can also see the old style pop-up trafficators, one on the waistband in front of the passenger compartment doors and the other just to the bottom left of the drivers windscreen. I doubt if this vehicle would of been converted to flashing indicators before being withdrawn from service with Halifax in 1963.
Converted at the same time I am told
Christopher
13/03/12 – 06:21
If my memory is still up to scratch, the reversed livery denoted OMO when it was first tried out. Much later, a form of reversed livery was used on DP vehicles and coaches, but by that time OMO was universal on single deckers, which had reverted to normal green and orange.
John (tee)
20/09/12 – 06:55
Is it possible to read the wording underneath the Halifax coat of arms? I think the wording is “Halifax Joint Committee”. The legal lettering would have referred to the owner of the vehicle, either Halifax Corporation or, in those days, the Railway Executive. This was a JOC vehicle and the old joint crest which included reference to the two railway companies was obsolete by 1949.
British Rail ran a staff bus between Sheffield Midland Station and Tinsley Marshalling Yard and at various times used this ex Mansfield District bus (fleet number 15), similar KRR 264 and KRB 88 which was an ex Midland General Leyland PS1 with a similar body. All ran in the colours of their previous owners. Later the work was contracted to Chesterfield Corporation who used one of their fleet of AEC Reliances to cover the duties. One of Sheffield’s 1957 Regent V/Weymann is behind, laying over at the terminus of service 60 to Crimicar Lane. This service had been extended from its former Leopold Street terminus in the City Centre to provide a useful link to the Midland Station. In the background one of the 1960 Alexander bodied Regent V is about to turn left into Pond Street Bus Station.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
11/05/11 – 15:37
Fascinating. Was a regular user of the 60 between Crimicar Lane and Midland Station – especially on the said Regent Vs. Was never aware of – and therefore never saw – the British Rail staff buses of any description. PS1 would have been 1946 onward but Regal III would have been 1947 onward. Other than that, I’m no help at all with the date.
David Oldfield
11/05/11 – 19:32
Not a terribly helpful comment, but I believe C T Humpidge was responsible for the blacking out of the cross pieces on the destination indicators as seen on the AEC Regent V and he took up post following R C Moore’s retirement in May 1961.
John Darwent
12/05/11 – 07:00
Yet another fascinating Sheffield picture. In tram days, there had been additional cars on the Walkley section of the main cross-city route to Intake running between Walkley and the Midland Station, quaintly showing ‘LMS STATION’ on their blinds. When the buses took over from the trams on 8th April, 1956, the new 95 bus service was extended at the Walkley end from the old tram terminus along to Tinker Lane, and additional buses were put on between Elm Tree at the Intake end and Walkley (South Road) where the trams had terminated, but the connection to the Midland Station was severed. To reinstate that link between the railway station and the city centre, and no doubt to the delight of Fulwood passengers who up until this time had managed to get only as far into the city centre as Leopold Street, alternate journeys on the route 60 Fulwood were extended from Barker’s Pool down High Street and Commercial Street to the Midland Station. Imagine getting off your train to be greeted by just such a sight as this one, of a splendidly turned out AEC Regent V waiting on the station forecourt. The heyday of the bus, indeed.
Dave Careless
12/05/11 – 07:03
Ah what beautiful vehicles! There were 25 PS1’s new to Midland General in 1948 and 24 Regal III’s new to Mansfield District in 1949. The bodies were similar but the PS1’s were bodied by Saunders, withdrawal of these started in 1962 and was completed in 1964, Two went to British Rail, KRB 87/88 in 5/64 and 4/63 respectively. About a dozen of the Regals were transferred to Midland General in 1958 and whilst MDT began to withdraw their remaining ones in 1962, MGO kept their acquisitions until 1967, just short of 20 years service. They usually worked out of Alfreton garage on MGO’s ‘rural’ services E2,E3,E4 and E5 between Alfreton and Matlock, routes with some very steep hills, but their 9.6 litre engines could out-perform the later LS’s and MW’s any day! I remember being taken to Matlock on summer Sundays and I loved to travel on these, which were always kept in beautiful condition. On arrival at Matlock Bus Station, they kept company with Silver Service’s wonderful vehicles and North Western’s Bristol K’s. Matlock was a great place to visit then! Fortunately, one of the Regals, KRR 255 is preserved and I believe it usually resides at the Midland Railway Centre, Butterley, Derbyshire.
Chris Barker
12/05/11 – 07:05
The KRR Regal IIIs were new in 1949. KRR 255 is preserved and active.
Peter Williamson
26/10/11 – 10:45
After service with British Rail KRR 261 went to Sykes a dealer at Worsborough Dale South Yorkshire. Does anybody know if this dealer is still trading?
Gren
01/12/12 – 15:53
Am I right that Paul Sykes of Sykes is the same Paul Sykes who developed the giant Meadowhall mall in Sheffield & other ventures, one of the richest men in England? He probably doesn’t need to strip buses much now, but is the company or yard still going?
Joe
09/06/14 – 06:55
British Rail in 1949? oh no! Please gentlemen, surely it could only have been British RailWAYS ? Unfortunately that error seems to be perpetuated by most of the present day railway and model railway press. Despite that pedantic comment on my part, I have to say that I find this to be a marvellous site which I visit regularly. Thanks to all involved
JOJ184
09/06/14 – 11:09
JOJ184, I’m afraid you are making the same error as those you are complaining about. There is nothing pedantic about accuracy and you are being accurate. Far too many people, particularly those working for various media, who claim great education, research and gravitas, daily project errors onto the airwaves, into print and on line. Given their standing and the widespread unthinking acceptance by the public of what they read and hear, especially from rolling news and internet sites such as Wikipedia, historians and researchers of future generations are going to have their work cut out to reach the truth. Rant over!
Phil Blinkhorn
10/06/14 – 07:56
I’m not sure that anyone is being accurate actually. 1949 is the year the bus was new. The date it was photographed with BR is as yet unknown. It would be helpful if someone could post the date on which BR changed its name, then we might have a firmer basis for saying which name should be used.
Peter Williamson
10/06/14 – 07:57
Phil, whilst wholeheartedly agreeing with your comments above I think JOJ184 has misinterpreted the heading caption to the photo. While it is somewhat misleadingly put as British Rail 1949, the year is actually referring to the AEC Regal III/Weymann build date. If you look closely at the side of the bus it is sporting the double arrow logo of British Rail and would have been taken sometime after 1965 hence on this occasion British Rail is the correct terminology. Strange how the board was still known as “The British Railways Board” long after the name British Rail came into use.
If I recall the British Railways rebranding took place around 1965 and included the change of name, the both ways logo and a typeface- Rail Alphabet. This justified a memorable edition of Design Magazine. It was a major step forward- clear and attractive. Apart from London Transport and its successors I’m not sure if any other combination of transport providers has ever done anything like this: logos have been generally messy, undistinguished or unnoticed and liveries- shall we say- lacking in design coherence and simplicity. Some, like SYPTE’s red and yellow or Lincolnshire RC / YTC’s purple and yellow were just awful.
Joe
10/06/14 – 07:59
For the record, JOJ184, British Railways changed its trading name to British Rail in 1965. So none of this thread would include WAYS!!
Chris Hebbron
10/06/14 – 08:02
Wasn’t the Sheffield Midland-Tinsley staff shuttle worked subsequently by SUT (using East Midland buses on summer Saturdays, when all SUT’s coaches would be in demand), and then by Booth & Fisher? I imagine the need for the contract came to an end when BR realised just what a white elephant Tinsley marshalling yard was. And I’m sorry to be a pedant here: but, Phil and JOJ184, the British Rail reference is correct as the picture must date from after the British Rail corporate launch in 1965 . . . as the bus is clearly sporting the BR double arrows.
Philip Rushworth
10/06/14 – 08:03
I’ve answered my own question. Wikipedia says that British Railways traded as British Rail from 1965. My copy of BBF5 is dated April 1965 and shows KRR 261 still with Mansfield District. Therefore the photograph must have been taken in 1965 or later, so that “British Rail” is probably correct.
Peter Williamson
10/06/14 – 15:56
The point about the discrepancy between the date of the bus being built and the date of the photo is well made, as is the fact that the vehicle bears the British Rail logo, dating the picture to 1965 or later. With regard to the British Railways Board and the British Rail name, Peter Williamson has it spot on. British Rail was a trading and marketing name so, had this been a non nationalised company it would have been listed at Companies House as British Railways t/a British Rail.
Phil Blinkhorn
10/06/14 – 15:57
Paul Sykes the bus scrapper is also Paul Sykes the builder of Meadowhall and now chief backer of UKIP
Chris Hough
11/06/14 – 07:48
“British Rail” may be chronologically correct for the photograph, but it is still grammatically gormless. I still resent the term “Rail Station” which, to me, indicates a repository for bulk steel strips, not a boarding and alighting point on a particular mode of transport. Would Gerard Fiennes, if writing today, entitle his book, ‘I Tried To Run A Rail’? I can just about accept “Train Station”, which is compatible with “Bus Station”, but the correct term for the transport infrastructure is ‘Railway’, whatever the marketing morons would wish to thrust upon us. (Dr Johnson is dead; long live Dr Johnson.)
Roger Cox
11/06/14 – 07:50
For clarification, I took the photo on 10th February 1968 hence well into British Rail days
Ian Wild
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
24/02/15 – 15:02
EFE produced a model of an AEC Regal in British Railways livery. It has the registration HKL 842 (Sheffield?) and the code 851-SOM on the sides. Does anyone have any information about this vehicle?
Ian Rawstron
25/02/15 – 06:04
HKL would be a Kent registration Ian.
John Darwent
25/02/15 – 06:05
If you look at: //www.classicbuses.co.uk/mdreg.html and scroll down a bit there is a detailed history of the whole batch with a couple of photographs. It was new to Maidstone & District.
Eastern Belle Motor Coaches (London) 1953 AEC Regal III 6821A Duple C39F
I am a contributor to Focus Transport main site, their blogsite and other sites, I hired a 1950’s AEC half canopy as part of my 60th birthday celebrations to take invited guests for lunch in a 1928 Pullman Carriage at the Spotgate Inn in Staffordshire (www.spotgateinn.co.uk) With no heating the guests survived low temperatures in the morning and the snow on the way home, but everyone had a great time. Very atmospheric. The vehicle is part of the Roger Burdett collection, and stopped in two suburbs in Birmingham as well as Lichfield to collect guests on the way to the restaurant and followed the same route back. The pictures were taken on arrival at the Spotgate Inn and just before departure back to the West Midlands. Most guests took pictures of the vehicle – the first time for nearly all of them that they had travelled on such a vehicle.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones
11/03/12 – 09:17
My word, what a truly magnificent vehicle – that well worn word “classic” must surely apply here – and in a livery uncannily like that of Samuel Ledgard. They say that “you learn something new every day” and I believe its the first time I’ve ever seen a thirty foot long Regal or even been aware of such a variant. It must surely be one of the most handsome vehicles of the “good old days.”
Chris Youhill
11/03/12 – 19:35
Very impressive. It might be the camera angle, but it looks a very long vehicle!
Chris Hebbron
11/03/12 – 19:51
As Chris says a true classic and what a fine vehicle. It is however surprising that a half cab design was selected for such a quality heavyweight coach as late as 1953 as underfloor models had been readily available for a couple of years by then. I agree 30ft long half cab coaches were pretty rare. Other examples I can immediately recall were a batch of Guy Arab half cabs with Roe coach bodies bought by Lancashire United for the Tyne-Tees-Mersey service about the same time.
Philip Halstead
12/03/12 – 06:44
Now you DO surprise me, Chris Y. What about the 1953 Doncaster 30′ Roe bodied Regal IIIs? (…..and I thought one of those had been preserved). The bodies are almost identical to the West Riding 30′ Roe bodied PS2s. PS2s and 9.6 Regal IIIs were rarer than PS1s and “7.7” as were 30′ rarer that 27’6″ – but there were still appreciable numbers.
David Oldfield
David Beilby
Crossley produced 54 30-foot long chassis. However, nearly all of the received full-front bodies, with only eight being of the traditional half-cab layout. Coach design was in an experimental phase at this time, as ten for the USAF had raised rear saloons and a further three were half-deckers.
David Beilby
12/03/12 – 16:04
Yes, David – I’d also thought of the Doncaster 30ft Regals. However, in defence of Chris Y, they had a straight-sided profile with deep windows which didn’t emphasise the length. However, this beautiful Eastern Belle example looks like a 27’6 version stretched to 30′. Indeed, I now see that EFE made a model of this coach, but using their 27’6″ mould with six side windows instead of the Eastern Belle’s seven. I wonder if, in 1953, the Duple staff had to delve into the back of the stores to find the patterns and templates for this late example from a different era. A rash question to our knowledgeable readers, but was this the last curved-sided half-cab ever made?
Paul Haywood
12/03/12 – 16:05
Here an example of a Lancashire United Guy Philip alluded to. The Roe body is not dramatically different from the Duple style. They were built in 1950. https://secure.flickr.com/ For some reason the page does not display correctly in IE you will have to scroll down to find the picture all other browsers work fine.
Chris Hebbron
12/03/12 – 17:17
What Ken did not mention but makes it rarer is that it is 7ft 6ins not 8ft. The West Riding PS2s from 1953 (I have one of those as well) are much bigger vehicles and 8ft
Roger (rbctc)
12/03/12 – 19:08
There’s a picture of the West Riding Leyland half cab mentioned above at //www.focustransport.org.uk she’s commonly referred to as Ethel because of her registration plate
Ken Jones
13/03/12 – 06:37
Barton Transport had a Duple A coach body which they lengthened themselves to a 30ft 39 seater as part of their BTS1 re-building programme, I think it was the only only one which retained a half cab body. No doubt they had lots of spare body parts from all their alterations but perhaps it wasn’t as easy as may be thought, I imagine it would have involved altering the body pillars to correspond with the increased wheelbase but the side window pattern on the finished product was exactly the same as on the one above.
Chris Barker
13/03/12 – 06:38
Don’t forget the possibly largest batch (?) of 30 foot half cab coaches, Royal Blue’s 1951 Bristol LL6B/Duple C37F, 24 in number.
Dave Williamson
14/03/12 – 06:54
In my last post, I forgot about the further 14 Bristol LL6B/Duple C37F which Southern/Western National acquired in 1951 for their own fleets.
Dave Williamson
15/03/12 – 09:30
Again though the Royal Blue Ls were 8ft.
Roger (rbctc)
15/03/12 – 12:07
……..and nothing as late as 1953. Unless someone knows different?
Paul Haywood
16/03/12 – 07:23
David O. mentions the three Roe-bodied 30′ Regal III’s for Doncaster. According to the PSV Circle’s chassis list for the type, the previous three chassis numbers to these were three seemingly identical Roe-bodied buses supplied to the Belfast Steamship Co. of Liverpool. I have never otherwise heard anything else about these buses, or ever seen photographs of them. Does anyone have any information about these totally overlooked machines? The list shows around 50 Regals with seating capacities of 37 or over, so which were probably of the longer length – surprisingly AEC did not give them a different chassis code. There were 108 Leyland PS2 30-footers: 12 Roe-bodied buses for West Riding. 6 Roe-bodied coaches for West Riding (with the similar bodies to the LUT Arabs). 71 buses for C.I.E. (with their own bodies) 14 East Lancs-bodied buses for Burnley, Colne and Nelson. 1 Burlingham-bodied coach for Wilkinson’s, Sedgefield. 1 Burlingham-bodied coach for Harding’s, Birkenhead. 1 Heaver-bodied coach for City Coach Co. 2 Observation Coaches for U.T.A. bodied by themselves. The City Coach and U.T.A. examples were six-wheelers with a temporary additional lightweight front axle, to legitimise their 30′ length prior to the relaxation in the length limit. They were designed to be removed when this came into force.
John Stringer
16/03/12 – 08:36
C H Roe (Geoff Lumb) p82 shows a Belfast Battle, sorry, Steamship bus – of 1954. These are quoted as being the same as the 1953 Doncaster examples. I believe that there were earlier 27’6″ examples before and also Regal IVs.
David Oldfield
17/03/12 – 16:31
This Eastern Belle coach (NXL 847) was the company’s second similar vehicle. In 1951, they had taken MLC 343, a photo of which is included in Eric Ogden’s ‘Duple’ book. Were the Royal Blues 8 feet wide? The LL chassis was the 7ft 6in version, the 8ft option being the LWL. Southern/Western National introduced white steering wheels to denote 8 feet wide vehicles; the photos I’ve seen of the Royal Blue LL6B coaches have the traditional black steering wheels. There were more than the 108 30 foot PS2 Tigers listed by John Stringer. In the PSV Circle Leyland PS2 chassis list, as well as those 108, 44 of the PS2/3 are quoted as 30 feet long, with the note that ‘there may be others’. It seems that early production 30 footers were conversions from the shorter models (Doug Jack’s ‘The Leyland Bus’).
Dave Williamson
18/03/12 – 07:55
My Duple L LTA 898 has a white steering wheel and whilst I would not stake my life savings on it I think is 8ft. On the PS2 8ft vehicles most were buses and I think only the West Riding were 1953
Roger (rbctc)
18/03/12 – 09:00
I rather think white steering wheels to remind drivers that the vehicle was 8ft wide was standard Bristol practice.
Roy Burke
19/03/12 – 09:10
West Riding’s last PS2s came in 1953 some of these had Roe coach bodies Burnley continued to buy PS2s until 1955 and these (fitted for OMO) lasted until the early seventies
Chris Hough
19/03/12 – 17:28
Two of the contributors to this thread mentioned the Regal IIIs supplied to Doncaster Corporation.
I’m happy to attach a photo of number 22, taken at it’s home at Sandtoft Transport centre.
Andrew Charles
20/03/12 – 16:01
What great pictures, Andrew, of a superb and beautifully preserved vehicle. 22 is just fabulous, and shows how well Doncaster’s livery could look when clean and fresh, which, at the risk of offending anyone, I have to say it often wasn’t. The use of front-engined vehicles for one-man operation was, I think, quite rare. It must have required some twisting and turning for the driver.
Roy Burke
21/03/12 – 07:28
As Roy rightly says, the use of front engined vehicles for one person operation was comparatively rare, but certainly not rare enough. The degree of contortion necessary for the driver at every stop was totally unacceptable and must have been the cause of spinal and inner organ damage. Much scoffing is aimed these days at “Health & Safety” which can admittedly sometimes be over the top, but in this particular instance it should have been applied with full force to prevent this ludicrous practice. I should juts clarify that I’m referring to front engined vehicles of the traditional layout – a modern exception of course being the wonderful, in my humble view and from experience, Ailsa Volvo double decker – a vehicle whose incredibly skilful design allowed a front engine, adequate passenger flow on the platform, comfortable room for the driver, and 79 seated passengers conveyed reasonably speedily by a 6.7 litre engine. I’ve always had the feeling that the sales figures of the Ailsa were mortally wounded by the unreasonable fear of the layout which the ill fated Guy Wulfrunian left as its legacy.
Chris Youhill
21/03/12 – 07:29
Am I correct in thinking that an operator called Homeland Tours bought a number of 30ft Leyland Comets? I’m sure I’ve seen a picture somewhere, I would imagine they really were unique!
Chris Barker
22/03/12 – 08:07
Re Chris’s comments about the Ailsa, I don’t think anyone would make comparisons with the Wulfrunian because it was well documented that the problems there were caused by Guy overreaching itself with advanced braking and suspension systems. What operators probably were fearful of was the small turbocharged engine, an idea which was virtually unknown in Britain then. In other words, a bus ahead of its time.
Peter Williamson
22/03/12 – 13:35
There were some outstanding bus liveries around and one nomination I would give is to West Bromwich Corporation, witness the preserved Daimler CVG6-30 seen HERE: https://secure.flickr.com Pity that, whenever I caught glimpses of them lurking around in Brum, they were always as tatty as Hell! It didn’t help that B’ham Corp’n generally kept their vehicles impeccable.
Chris Hebbron
22/03/12 – 13:36
Homeland Tours was an operator based in Croydon during the post war years who had a number of Leyland Comets with Strachans C37F bodies. As a schoolboy in the Croydon area in the 1950s, I used to see these coaches about frequently. I believe that these vehicles were actually owned and operated by Wallace Arnold to whom Homeland had “passed” the licences and goodwill. Homeland Tours still exists as a travel agent in Croydon.
Roger Cox
23/03/12 – 06:40
Regarding the Ailsa Peter, the engine theory is an interesting one which I hadn’t thought of. In the event though, any concerns about the performance and longevity of those tiny Volvo engines have proved to be unfounded, and the performance of their immediate successors leaves me full of admiration. For example, the speed at which the Volvo B7TLs ascend Royal Park Road (very steep) on the 56 service in Leeds with around ninety passengers, while confidently changing gear upwards, is nothing short of amazing – those long in the tooth like me recall the 7.7 litre Mark V AEC Regents whistling, wheezing and protesting at little more than walking pace when heavily loaded.
Chris Youhill
23/03/12 – 09:33
Thanks, Chris H for the link to the West Bromwich Daimler. A very smart vehicle indeed. It made me think about other liveries, and I wondered what other correspondents’ favourites might be. East Yorkshire’s indigo and primrose has its fans, and from my own neck of the woods, York Pullman was always both smart and attractive, (and it still exists). Any nominations?
Roy Burke
23/03/12 – 16:43
Sheffields smart cream and blue always smartly turned out was a favourite The many variations in the late lamented Black Prince livery again always smart Pennine Motors unusual orange and black The LCT one man livery was always smart though often dirty Others will no doubt have their own choices. One other to mention is the Leeds blue and cream pre-war livery on both buses and trams examples of which happily survive.
Chris Hough
24/03/12 – 09:16
Just one more from me then, City of Oxford. This photo of an AEC Regent III with Weymann lowbridge body (a pseudo LT RLH) shows of its livery superbly. See HERE: //www.fotolibra.com/
Chris Hebbron
24/03/12 – 12:17
Indeed many of us have our favourite “traditional” liveries, and with good cause, when we have to live with some of today’s ghastly and inappropriate offering, most of which make me despair as to where the Industry is going. I just wish the “marketing” fraternity would stick to promoting baked beans etc. and that operators would cease wasting so much money on garish and incomprehensible horrors which the travelling public are probably unaware of and totally disinterested in. Rant over, but not for long, as I feel so strongly about this issue that I can rarely get it out of my mind. Now then, another favourite livery or two of mine – Southend Corporation’s beautiful light blue and rich cream, especially when they spent their money wisely against the 1960s trend by increasing the number of places on the intermediate destination blinds from three to six – the expression “getting your priorities right” springs to mind. How about the most dignified Accrington Corporation dark navy and red – different and sombre, yes, but most impressive.
Chris Youhill
24/03/12 – 18:12
Yes Chris, Accrington’s was indeed a most dignified and distinctive livery. I once read in a book somewhere that it was first applied after World War I, as a mark of respect to the many Accrington Pals killed in action. Their regimental colours were red and blue with gold lining. It is also said that the mudguards of the buses were painted black at the same time, as a sign of mourning. However, other operators also had buses with black mudguards over the years, so I’m not quite so sure about the latter. A very touching tribute nonetheless though, to such brave men.
Brendan Smith
25/03/12 – 09:11
I agree with Chris Youhill’s hatred of modern corporate colour schemes (I hesitate to grace them with the title “liveries”). My particular dislike is having windows plastered with stupid advertising tosh. WINDOWS ARE FOR LOOKING OUT OF! If they want to cover them over they may as well save on glass and just panel the sides in altogether (as they have the rear of many vehicles).
Stephen Ford
25/03/12 – 09:12
I’m waiting for Chris Y to vote for South Yorkshire Motors, (from West Yorkshire) whose Oxford/Cambridge blue was very handsome & well maintained despite the age of some of the vehicles. As someone said, Doncaster’s Crimson Lake was potentially good, but attacked by filthy roads around collieries until it went a sort of dark maroon. Doncaster’s old livery never had any names- just the coat of arms. The old umbery East Midlands had a mention here- but it was dropped for the ultimate in boring. Perhaps the most horrific “new” livery was South Yorkshire Transport’s (not to be confused) Yuk yellow & red, with some dreadful graphics. What a far cry….
Joe
25/03/12 – 09:13
The Accrington livery up to the late sixties also included black window surrounds on the lower saloon, which I always think set it off. This may be the black that was referred to rather than the wings.
David Beilby
25/03/12 – 12:07
As many will know Joe, I spent my last fourteen years with South Yorkshire Road Transport (and several successors) at Pontefract Depot. The vehicles were indeed well maintained and smart, inside and out, and I can’t imagine many private firms employing a team of four daytime lady cleaners Monday to Friday to keep the interiors of around twenty vehicles in pristine order. These splendid ladies left no stone unturned and could often be seen on their knees washing with difficulty the seat support rails and other areas usually unknown to the average cleaner elsewhere. There honestly were amusing occasions when a vehicle had to be rapidly collected from the depot for an unexpected changeover – I have personally experienced leaping into a cab and setting off promptly for the bus station to hear an anguished cry from up aloft – “Just a minute luv”, and two of the worthy ladies would come downstairs with buckets and mops and alight just in time to avoid being whisked away to Doncaster or Barnsley !! The original South Yorkshire Motors livery of two blues and rich cream with traditional fleetname was indeed a classic one. When the Company was reconstituted (still under family ownership) as South Yorkshire Road Transport Limited the livery gave way to the familiar modern one of two blues and stark white ir-rational (to me) rectangular shapes, and bold white large fleetnames. Rumour has it that the white shape of the lower forward panel was to emphasise the presence of the front wheels which I suppose had some merit – but I have to say that I found the new livery to be a retrograde step and I didn’t particularly like its layout and the stark white.
Chris Youhill
26/03/12 – 07:44
Here Here Chris re. modern liveries! Absolutely awful. You mention the superb Southend pale blue and cream, laid out in traditional fashion. It was enough to inspire Bradford to change in 1942 when they borrowed some Southend trolleys. I think the best traditional liveries were those employed by the Tilling Group, but perhaps my own personal all-time favourite was the deep green with cream stripes of that wonderful AEC fleet, Morecambe and Heysham Corporation, which showed off the lines of classic Park Royal and Weymann bodywork with real flair. Them wer t`days all right
John Whitaker
26/03/12 – 10:34
I recall the attractive M & H livery on one visit there, with typical ‘tramway’ lettering and fleet numbers. The buses had no route numbers/letters.
Chris Hebbron
01/04/12 – 08:43
I had the chance to ride on this excellent coach again today and got a picture of the engine. I do hope it is of interest to you.
Ken Jones
29/04/12 – 16:56
I was at the Irish Transport Heritage Bus & Coach rally at Cultra, Holywood, Co. Down on 28th April and saw it tucked away. A lovely example and a welcome visitor. I didn’t get the best shot but here is a link to my photo on Flickr //www.flickr.com/
Robin Parkes
03/05/12 – 08:48
600 mile round trip to take Eastern Belle to Belfast with 20 passengers-must be one of the longest trips for a half-cab in 2012 and it ran perfectly.
Roger rbc
05/01/13 – 15:40
Whilst (laboriously) digitising my slide collection I came across this view of NXL 847 – then in a two-tone green livery – as it prepared to depart from the HCVC Brighton Rally in 1973.
John Stringer
06/01/13 – 11:19
1973 was the year I graduated from University and NXL 847 “Eastern Belle” belonged to Waltham Forest Council Welfare Services at the time. – Thanks to Roger Burdett – current owner for this information
Ken Jones
16/11/13 – 11:06
Having been born in Bow, East London I remember Eastern Belle Coaches very well. In the fifties our street would book a coach with eastern belle to take us to see the Southend Lights. I also remember their garage being a very crampt premises on the Bow Road. I took my first car there for an MOT in the early sixties and remember seeing two redundant dust covered AECs wallowing in the corner. I am now 70 years old but never forget these lovely well kept vehicles.
B Greaves
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
15/04/16 – 09:19
Re the comment posted by John Stringer (16/03/12) regarding, the two “observation coaches” built on PS2 chassis by the UTA they were eventually rebuilt (along with many other PS2’s) into PD2/10C deckers with UTA 60 seat bodies. Curiously both survive in this format – one is preserved and the other is a former playbus.
I see this old thread has risen again, thanks to a wonderful view from Bill Headley. Thank you for posting! I note the exchanges of thought about the Ailsa. I’m not sure if the claim is still made (if it ever was!) but I seem to remember the Volvo cars were designed for a 22 year life. No wonder their bus engines performed as healthily as CY reports!
Pete Davies
16/04/16 – 09:15
Not true of the B6 engine, Pete. The B6 was a dreadful attempt at a Dart clone, and a complete abomination.
Sheffield United Tours 1949 AEC Regal III Windover C32F
Looking in remarkably good shape for a contractor’s vehicle is this ex Sheffield United Tours AEC Regal III – chassis number 0962200, with a C32F body by Windover. It entered service in 1949, was sold on to Davies, Tredegar (via dealer) about July 1958, thence (via dealer) to Townson as shown, who operated it for about two years before selling on again. What a great combination was the AEC Regal III/Windover half cab.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson
21/09/12 – 07:10
SUT had a goodly number of these vehicles on both the medium weight 068 as well as the heavyweight 0962 version of the Regal III. There were also a fair number of Duples – which were disposed of rather quickly/earlier than the Windovers. I’m too young (oh yes I am) to remember these half-cab Windovers in service. Apparently they were known for two things: (i) They were superbly finished – “even better than Duple” but (ii) the structure was suspect (with the common post-war use of “green” wood for the frames). These bodies were very popular with the BET companies who did substantial coach work (especially in the north). It was rare, however, for them to reach a ten year life-span with their first operator.
David Oldfield
21/09/12 – 08:32
I don’t recall seeing – and certainly don’t have any “bought” views of – these vehicles in reality, though I have seen them in model form. The models seem to capture the reality very well. I have vague memories of Townson vehicles in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s, when they, like Monk of Warrington and, of course, Wimpey, used old buses and coaches as staff transport.
Pete Davies
22/09/12 – 07:11
Some of the earlier SUT coaches were 0662 Regal I types and the name of the body was the Huntingdon. It was built in numbers on Leyland Tiger and AEC Regal chassis and North Western had quite a few Bristol Ls. I believe there were also one or two Guys. Windover then went on to have further success on Royal Tiger and Regal IV underfloor chassis with the Kingsway. [Personally, I thought this an ugly body – but then few could compete with the early Seagulls.] Bizarrely, for a firm whose products (from the point of view of finish) were so highly regarded – and eminently suitable as touring coaches – they disappeared after the Royal Tiger/Regal IV era. I am not aware that they even got as far as bodying a Tiger Cub or Reliance. Doubly strange since they had been in business since 1766. Their factory was just down the road from Duple’s in north London.
David Oldfield
22/09/12 – 07:12
Davids point about BET companies in the North. As far as I know Ribble had some Windover’s, and although I’ve only seen pictures of them, Northern General had 8 on Guy Arab chassis fitted with Meadows engines, but they were later replaced with AEC A173 7.7 units. They were new in 1949 and by Northerns standards they had a relatively short life of only 8 years, they were gone by 1957.
Ronnie Hoye
22/09/12 – 07:13
I’ve always thought that this body from Windovers came a very close second to the Duple A type for it’s pleasing lines and symmetry. They got the look of this just right and it’s very easy on the eye compared to others of the time, some of which had the vertical framing pointing up in all directions, like badly arranged flowers in a vase! There’s no wonder that the BET group went for them in a big way although I had heard about the problems mentioned by David O, I understand that the roof and domes were notorious for leaking water into the saloon.
Chris Barker
22/09/12 – 07:13
Do any of the Sheffield contributors remember various SUT AEC Regal coaches operating on hire(?) to Sheffield Transport during the late 1950s? I particularly remember the fully fronted LWE registered batch operating on the 82 between Ecclesall and Middlewood with an honesty box just inside the entrance. I think this was more a result of a crew shortage rather than serviceable vehicles.
Ian Wild
23/09/12 – 06:45
Re S.U.T. coaches operating on hire to S.T.D. I can also remember travelling on them on the 82. Also I remember that Batchelors hired a coach to “market” their products. They gave out free samples of their products! I recall that this was my first introduction to green pea soup.
Stephen Bloomfield
23/09/12 – 06:46
I’ve just been through the fleet history to make sure of my gut reaction, and Ribble never operated any vehicles with Windover bodywork. Some of North Western’s Huntingdon bodied Bristol L5Gs were “cascaded” to Melba Motors in 1958-61 and repainted in that subsidiary’s blue and cream livery. EFE have produced a 1/76 scale model of one of these Melba machines, depicted after sale to British Railways. For customers wanting bodywork for underfloor engined chassis (but who considered the Kingsway too avant garde) Windover also offered the Queensway model with more “traditional” lines. Unfortunately it somehow resembled an electric-powered delivery van or milk float and its only major customer was Yorkshire Woollen District. Incidentally, while it’s a well-known fact that the Kingsway body was named after the location of the BET Group’s head office (and the Queensway merely mimicked the nomenclature of the Kingsway), nobody has ever been able to tell me why the front-engined body was called the Huntingdon. Any suggestions?
Neville Mercer
23/09/12 – 06:50
Sorry pardon chaps, but not for the first time I’ve got it wrong, Northern General had 10 Windover Guy’s, I don’t know the full numbers of the batch, but one was BCN 26 fleet number 1226
Ronnie Hoye
23/09/12 – 06:51
Yorkshire Woollen had Windover coaches both half cab and a late batch of Royal Tigers. Incidentally when I got married the Rolls Royce wedding car had a Windover body c.1935.
Philip Carlton
23/09/12 – 06:52
I don’t recall hearing about SUT coaches on hire to Sheffield Transport Department before, but it certainly happened that Joint Committee buses went to work for SUT on occasion. Under the Sheffield heading of the ‘Vehicle Developments’ column, in Buses Illustrated issue no. 56 for November 1959, there’s a report that ” …. Leyland Tiger PS1’s 1193-5, 1201/2 (KWE 93-5, KWE 1/2), which have Weymann bodes, were on loan to Sheffield United Tours in July.” Interestingly, in the same issue under the Sheffield United Tours heading, it mentions that the operator actually hired back AEC Regal III’s, 186/90 (LWE886/90) from the dealer to whom they’d already been sold, in order to assist with summer peak traffic. It must have been a busy summer at Charlotte Road!
Dave Careless
23/09/12 – 06:53
I did not know that Windover were in business as far back as 1766, but the firm certainly opened a factory in my nearby town of Huntingdon in 1796, building high quality carriages and, later, motor car bodywork for prestigious marques such as Rolls Royce and Bentley. The business moved to Colindale in north west London in 1924.The firm made aircraft components during WW2 and expanded into commercial vehicle bodywork postwar. In 1956 the company was taken over by Henleys and all coachbuilding activity ceased.
Roger Cox
23/09/12 – 19:37
Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Copyright R F Mack
Just a follow up to the story on SUT Regals which may be of interest, EYMS purchased three of SUT 1947 Regal/Duple coaches in 6/48 becoming 502-504 HWJ 989/990/992 these lasted with EYMS until 9/60 and then all three passed to Lloyds of Nuneaton. At first they were operated in SUT livery with EY fleet names before being repainted into EY’s indigo blue & primrose, I believe Yorkshire Traction also bought some from this batch as well.
Mike Davies
23/09/12 – 19:39
The Windover Kingsway did make it into the lightweight era, just. Two AEC Reliances appeared at the 1954 Commercial Motor Show with C41R bodies. They were MBE 611 for Hudson, Horncastle and RUP 843 for Gillett, Quarrington Hill. Biss Bros, Bishops Stortford also had four Kingsway bodied Foden PVRF6, NJH 847 of 1951, and NUR 197, NUR 198 and ORO 107 of 1952. A further BET customer for the Queensway was Red Line, W10, with OLX 1-3 on AEC Regal IV chassis. A picture of one appears in Ian Allan abc of Buses and Coaches, published around 1956, although wrongly described as a Reliance. At least the first and last were rebodied with Plaxton Panorama bodies, and photos of them in this form can be seen on Flickr.
David Williamson
24/09/12 – 07:18
The SUT AEC Regals were on hire to STD, I think in 1956, they also worked on the 110 Parson Cross via Owlerton service at peak times. A colleague, the late Mike Gillott, became an auxiliary conductor, supervising the half cab forward entrance. He regularly travelled to and from his workplace on 82 Ecclesall duties, assisting the regular driver. An acute staff shortage WAS the reason for the hiring.
Keith Beeden
24/09/12 – 10:31
Thank you for the information Keith, I recalled the honesty box and hence no normal conductor to take fares but I couldn’t remember how the manual door was operated.
Ian Wild
25/09/12 – 07:00
Roger answers the Huntingdon question. Trent had some Regal IIIs – one I believe now owned by Steve Morris – and Timpsons had Regal IV/Kingsways (such as LUW 454 which worked on hire to SUT, complete with shield.) Thanks to Trevor Weckert for latter information.
David Oldfield
22/03/13 – 08:00
SUT was the winners of the 1st International coach rally in Montreux in 1949 with KWA 724, a Regal III with Huntingdon coachwork. they repeated this success the following year with LWE 892, one of the full fronted Regal III’s. Incidentally, the entire batch of full fronted Regal III’s were originally ordered as 7’6″ (6821A)wide but when Ben Goodfellow, the new GM took over he modified the order to that of LWE 885-890 to remain as ordered but LWE 891-896 to the new 8′ wide specification (9621E). Regarding Batchelors Demonstrators..MWJ 197/NWB 198/9/203/4/6/8/OWA 210/111/OWB 215 were all used for this purpose.
Trev Weckert
20/11/18 – 11:11
Just found your website and photo (KWS 722) as I was looking for photo’s of Townson buses used as workmens transport. This bus was used daily on the Bolton to Manchester Piccadilly Station run when Townsons had the main contrct for the rebuilding of the station in 1964 /6. I worked for Townsons on that site and travelled on this bus daily during my employment there. I note that in the first comment the contributor says this was sold on after Townson’s use, but my recollection differs. In 1966 the transmission shaft became increasingly “clunky” and eventually it crashed up through the floor of the bus on a journey home to Bolton,in 1966, though I was not present at that time. I was told that the bus was eventually scrapped, by the person who regularly drove the buses for Wm. Townson. By the way, the door was operated by a large vertical lever on the inside which pulled inwards and backwards to operate the sliding mech. Hope this helps.
The photo is taken outside the old London Road station Manchester, before it was renamed Piccadilly Station.
Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee 1949 AEC Regal III Roe B32R
Halifax buses seemed to undergo a curious renumbering merry go round from time to time, as if fleet numbers were somehow on ration. The number 258 was a case in point. Here is another Regal III of the 1949 batch, BCP 544, which, like its fellow AJX 848 also on this site, was rebuilt from B32R to B33F in 1953/4. It originally joined the ‘B’ Joint Committee fleet as number 269, but in October 1964 it was transferred to the ‘A’ Corporation fleet as number 99. In the following month it was transferred back again to the ‘B’ fleet with the number 268, but it was then renumbered again as 258, which is the number it carries in this picture. This Regal was the only remaining example of its type when I joined Halifax Passenger Transport as a Traffic Clerk towards the end of 1964, and I drove it from time to time when training for my PSV licence in early 1965. Despite its sixteen years of service, it was a delightful and characterful bus to drive, and carried its age very lightly.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
24/10/12 – 07:58
One thing that has always intrigued me with exposed radiators is the variety of ways people find for keeping them warm. This one’s ‘appendage’ looks quite professional, certainly far better than a bit of old newspaper!
Pete Davies
24/10/12 – 11:15
I was going to refer to these over another recent posting. They seem to suggest that AEC and Leyland engines ran “cold” but did Daimlers D’s ever have them? – because they ran hot, it seems, judging by the supplementary air intake, otherwise known as leaving the bonnet side open and resting on the mudguard. Am I anywhere near, Engineers?
Joe
24/10/12 – 11:30
That’s an interesting observation, Pete. I can’t make out the exact nature of the blind on this vehicle, but, as you say, there were many different approaches. I’ve always been fascinated, for example, with East Yorkshire, which seemed to like placing an aluminium sheet over part of the exposed radiator, although, for reasons I’ve not understood, the actual treatment varied between vehicles, even ones of the same batch. Did the engineers know the fleet so well that they could tailor blinds individually, since although you could raise or lower a flexible blind, an aluminium sheet was a fixed feature?
Roy Burke
24/10/12 – 12:47
What a marvellous sight to see this morning as I land on the OBP Homepage bleary-eyed ! How lucky you were Roger to have driven this delightful bus. Around this time I was still at school, and this last remaining Regal was sometimes used to transport us the relatively short distance to Woodside Swimming Baths if the more usual Nimbus was unavailable. Our local Bus Club hired it in 1965 for a memorable visit to Bolton, Bury and Rochdale Corporations – on which it performed admirably. It was almost regarded as a mascot by the local enthusiasts. Not long afterwards it was sold to local building contractor Pickles for staff transport. HPT repainted the lower panels cream before sale, and it pottered around the locality in an increasing state of decrepitude until finally scrapped. Unfortunately, the framework modifications involved in moving the entrance to the front – cutting out a large piece when there was already a weakness due to the emergency door being directly opposite, and cutting into the front bulkhead to allow for one-man-operation, severely compromised its structural integrity. The uncanny thing about your photo is that aside from the fact that 258 was scrapped forty-odd years ago, it could have been taken this morning. Parked in what is nowadays referred to as 7-Bay at Skircoat Garage, the building is exactly the same – even to having the same shades of paint on the wall, though today it is maybe peeling a bit more.
John Stringer
24/10/12 – 17:48
There was always a timelessness about the old Skircoat Garage, wasn’t there, John. One would have been only mildly surprised to chance across a tram or two, such was the period feel to the place. I wrote to Geoff Hilditch a few years back to send him copies of my small store of Halifax bus pictures, and he very kindly replied in a long letter. One of the things he told me was that the Skircoat depot, along with Elmwood, is facing demolition in the near future. Another piece of treasured transport history seems to be about to vanish. Joe’s comment about hot running engines is interesting. Gardners were always cool runners, which proved to be a bit of a problem when bus heaters became generally adopted. The vast majority of wartime Daimlers had the AEC 7.7 engine, as did the bulk of utility Bristols. Any cooling problems must have been caused by the installation design. Daimler’s own CD6 8.6 litre engine proved to be highly variable in quality between individual examples, the best being satisfactory, but the worst were as bad as the contemporary Crossley HOE7. Installations were probably made to cater for a worst case scenario.
Roger Cox
Leeds exposed radiator buses had both an aluminium plate and a roll down blind attached to it. There were two distinct designs the AEC version covered the radiator from the bottom to just over half way The one used on Titans and Crossleys was around 2-3 feet deep and was positioned mid radiator. These were generally fitted around this time of year and were removed in March/April.
Chris Hough
24/10/12 – 17:49
One of this batch came to Rochdale when I lived there in the early 1960’s to operate for the Social Services Department. If I remember correctly it was fitted with a wheelchair lift. I regret I cannot remember the number of the vehicle but it was painted in Rochdale Corporation’s then new livery of cream with a single blue band. It was a case of what might have been as Rochdale was of course a staunch AEC user but never actually had any post-war single deck half cabs.
Philip Halstead
25/10/12 – 07:14
Isn’t it interesting how some postings generate a lot of comment, sometimes veering off at tangents from tangents from tangents, while other postings generate very little? It’s all part of the fun of taking part in the world of the forum!
Pete Davies
25/10/12 – 07:47
You’ve noticed that as well, Pete.
David Oldfield
25/10/12 – 12:02
Of course it’s unrelated to interest or enthusiasm, for there would be plenty of silent admirers, even with quiet posts. What always intrigues me are the posts which run their course, go silent for ages, then spring into life again! And by some queer quirk, I sometimes find the whole thread passed me by the first time round!
Chris Hebbron
25/10/12 – 12:01
The Regal that went to Rochdale was BCP 543 and it was given the fleet number 500. It said “Welfare Service” in the destination box.
David Beilby
25/10/12 – 12:03
Geoffrey Hilditch is alive and well. I met him the other week on one of his visits to Wigan. He still drives from Torquay and back. He said how much he enjoyed his time at Halifax and wondered if today’s bus managers feel the same, with all the financial pressures. I didn’t know about the garages though – they are still there!
Geoff Kerr
25/10/12 – 16:03
I agree with John and Roger – Skircoat Garage has hardly changed over the intervening years. Enjoy it while you can – word is that the site has been sold to ASDA and the depot will be demolished in the near future
Ian Wild
26/10/12 – 07:34
Hope ASDA realise that they’re going to have ghosts of AEC Regals amongst their frozen ready-meals!
Stephen Ford
26/10/12 – 07:35
Ian. How sad to think that a useful building providing work, skills, training and local employment has to die to build yet another Temple to the £1 bottle of milk. If I lived there I would never step foot inside the place but, just last weekend I bought a new camera from Curry’s/PC World built on the site of the former Winterstoke Road Garage of Bristol Omnibus Company..but not without thought.
Richard Leaman
26/10/12 – 14:16
The same thing happened to the Newcastle Corporation central works at Byker which employed dozens of people with all manor of skills, as well as being a garage they could virtually build a vehicle from scratch. Now it’s a retail park where you can buy all manor of goods, mostly produced in China. I think it comes under the definition of progress.
Ronnie Hoye
27/01/13 – 16:58
Reverting to the comments about radiator blinds/mufflers, one company that was very organised in this respect was Bristol. Their blinds had a white stripe down the middle. At various points on the system – the one I happen to recall was at Bath Bus Station – there was a miniature display of a radiator with blind. This would be set to show the desired blind setting for the day, to match temperature. The white stripe on the blind meant that an inspector could spot from a distance that the driver had set his own blind correctly. The attached view shows buses with two of what appear to have been four different settings. You can just make out in the left hand view the clips to which the upper part of the blind would be attached. It would be interesting to know whether the setting was determined by head office or locally. I can imagine there being considerable temperature variation on the same day between the coast at Weston and the high ridge of the southern Cotswolds.
Alan Murray-Rust
01/06/13 – 15:30
I’m a Bristolian and spent several years working for BOC but never knew that! Remember Winterstoke of course and was quite shocked when I saw it had gone.
Geoff Kerr
03/10/16 – 08:15
Geoff….I pass the site where Winterstoke Road Bus Garage was located just about every day and the line up of retail warehouses is just a terrible replacement for that superb garage. In my mind I see lines of K, L and KSW parked up with a few of those new fangled Lodekka’s! Once upon a long time ago I spent many an hour with my old friend Clive checking fleet numbers and spotting favourites from the safety of the grassed areas just inside the front walls. I do remember the radiator setting sign also mentioned….it is a good 40 plus years ago but have an idea there was one on the back wall of the old Marlborough Street Bus Station..in the garage/parking area…I remember seeing it/them many times and think one might be preserved at the BVBG garage. I will have a look on the next open day.
W Alexander & Sons (Northern) 1951 AEC Regal III 6821A Alexander C35F
Here is a view of DMS130. This AEC Regal III 6821A was new to W Alexander & Sons in 1951, with an Alexander C35F body as A104. When the company split, she passed to the Northern section as NA 104. She is seen in this guise in the yard of the Hants & Dorset depot in Southampton in May 1977. The then preservationists lived in nearby Bishops Waltham.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
01/09/13 – 14:13
The bus is still preserved, and there are many photos on my website at www.vintagebus.org
John Braga
10/04/17 – 06:38
This is one of six chassis ordered by James Sutherland of Peterhead immediately before their takeover by Alexanders in 1950. They were due to have Duple bodies similar to Sutherland’s six recently delivered Leyland PS1s which became Alexander PA197-202. However they were put to the back of the queue at Alexanders Coachbuilders and instead received some of their last halfcab bodies, 8ft wide on a 7ft 6in chassis, in a style also fitted to Alexanders 20 OPS2s. Duple was upset by this, so a number of Alexander pre-war Leylands were rebodied by Duple to fulfill the order.
