RC 9680 was new to Trent in 1947 with a Willowbrook B35F body being lengthened and fitted with a new Willowbrook body in 1958. It was withdrawn by Trent in 1963 and is shown here four years later laying over in the shadow of Caernarvon Castle on a wet day in September 1967.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
21/07/20 – 06:41
A small correction to Ian’s caption; these vehicles were not given new Willowbrook bodies, the original bodies were lengthened at the rear to allow an extra double seat on each side and slightly at the front to fully enclose the cab and conceal the radiator. The other modification was a folding door, as seen, replacing the previous porch type entrance with a door at the top of the steps. There were twenty of these conversions, the first one was given all new flush glazed windows mounted in rubber gasket, the remainder kept their original windows to reduce the conversion cost. They were all given new seats which allowed them to be re-classified as dual purpose but the new seats, although an improvement, were still rather spartan for 2-3 hour seaside services.
Chris Barker
22/07/20 – 06:58
It was a very successful conversion, IMHO, helped by the completely horizontal waistline instead of the dropping rear. I wouldn’t have guessed the bodywork wasn’t original. And here it is, still around, 20 years after being built!
Chris Hebbron
25/07/20 – 07:15
I agree with Chris Barkers comment about the horizontal waste line, helping to give the vehicle a more modern appearance. However when I see these vehicles I always feel that the frontal appearance could have been improved if – either the aluminium trim followed the bottom contour of the front windows, (and not a horizontal line) or the windows had a horizontal base instead of the angled finish. I’m sure their were good reasons for not altering the line of the windows (not least because they concealed the bulkhead and radiator and were part of the original half cab design). Nice conversion in any event.
John Rentell
09/08/20 – 05:53
Looks like a Creams (of Llandudno) Bedford VAL alongside. Could be BCC 1C ( https://flic.kr/p/7Qrw3K ), or BCC 6C.
I well remember these Regals from my childhood in the Gosport area between 1949 and 1952. The very first Regal 4 – the Arabic numeral denoted the installation of a four cylinder engine – was converted in June 1930 from a stock Regal chassis simply by replacing the 7.4 litre six cylinder petrol engine with the four cylinder 5.1 litre petrol used in the Monarch and Mercury goods ranges. However, sales of the new model were very modest in comparison with the main competing four cylinder offerings, the Leyland Lion and Dennis Lancet. In March 1933 an oil engine option became available for the Regal 4, initially of 5.35 litres capacity but soon increased to 6.6 litres, which enhanced the market appeal of the model. Provincial took an interest and ordered eight, CG 9606-9613, numbered (rather illogically, though this might have reflected the 1934 delivery dates) as 23/24/29/30/25/26/27/28, with Harrington B32R bodywork. These Regals went on to acquire a legendary reputation in enthusiast circles. In 1945/46 the four cylinder engines in these buses were replaced by 7.7 litre six cylinder units. Between 1953 and 1955 four of the batch were rebuilt to forward entrance format and then, in the years from 1957 to 1962, all eight received new Reading bodies, varying in capacity from FB33F to FB35F.
The final two rebuilds, CG 9607 and 9612 had bodies partially constructed by Provincial and completed by Reading. At the end of 1966 the redoubtable manager, Mr H Orme White, who had begun his Provincial career at the Great Grimsby Street Tramways Company, retired at the age of 81 after 30 years at Gosport, and the inexorable decline of the Gosport & Fareham business then began. Under the new manager, withdrawals of the Regals took place between 1966 and 1970, Provincial Traction having been sold off in the interim period to the Wiles Group, later renamed the Swain Group, part of the Hanson Trust, in 1969. The title picture above was given to me in 2006 by David Whitaker, the owner of the also illustrated 1961 rebuilt survivor, CG 9607, and it shows Nos 25/24/23, CG 9610/9607/9606, possibly not long after delivery in 1934. I did initially wonder if the photograph had been taken at Hoeford, but the unidentified double decker in the background is not a Provincial vehicle, though it certainly appears to be contemporary with the second half of the 1930s. More information about these Regals may be found at this link. Click on the arrow near the bottom of the page and then select “Provincial AEC Regals” from the list that appears.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
13/12/20 – 07:16
I remember these very well, especially in the original form. I used them rarely as we used the double deck 1 and 3 services. At the age of ten, I accompanied my family to Malta for three years, and on return found the rebodied examples running around. I am not sure how extensive the rebuild was, as clearly the front had changed and so had the windows and seats, but the windows were very narrow for the late 1950s, and the rear ends seemed unchanged.
London Transport Board 1966 AEC Merlin P2R Strachans B46D
In the mid 1960s London Transport began moving away from its ageing bespoke designs – RT family/ RF/ RM family – and belatedly began investigating the standard offerings of the bus manufacturing industry. The ensuing saga became a sad, expensive story of incompetence, profligacy and waste, from the RC Reliances, XA Atlanteans and MB/SM Merlins/Swifts of the 1960s, and onward through the 1970s and beyond with the Daimler Fleetlines and Metro Scanias. The first London Transport Merlins (Chiswick clung to this appendage even when Southall changed the name of the AH691 engined 36 ft long version to Swift 691) had Strachans dual doorway bodies seating 25 at the rear and accommodating (exceedingly closely – I speak from personal experience) 48 standing passengers in the lower front section. These early examples of the Merlin had a low driving position that was raised on later production models. Classified XMS, fourteen of them equipped with coin operated turnstiles went into service in central London on Red Arrow service 500 in 1966 and performed that duty well. At the same time, the Country Area was pursuing a policy of adopting the Merlin for conventional one man operation as the XMB type, and had nine Strachan B45D bodied examples ready for service in the early months of 1966, but the T&GWU refused to accept them. All except XMB 1 were then repainted red, de-seated to the 25 plus 48 standing format, and used on Red Arrow services. The solitary Country Area survivor, XMB 1, which had 46 seats and then carried the registration JLA 57D, went into store, during which time it was first reclassified as XMB 15 in November 1966, and then re-registered in January 1967 as NHX 15E. In August 1967 its registration was changed yet again to SMM 15F, and it continued to spend time in store with occasional forays out and about for route surveying and training purposes. Finally, in January 1969, nearly three years after delivery, it was transferred to Tring garage where, in the following month, it carried its first fare paying passengers on the single bus allocation route 387 between Tring and Aldbury village. In 1970 it became a member of the London Country fleet, but its identity crisis was still set to continue. In mid 1971 it was reclassified MBS 15 in accordance with the rest of Merlin fleet, but in November 1973 it was sent to the by now GLC controlled London Transport who repainted it red and promptly put it into store. MBS 4, formerly XMB 4 was sent from LT to LCBS in exchange. MBS 15 saw very little, if, indeed any service use with LT thereafter, before being dumped at the old Handley Page airfield at Radlett in 1975 along with very many other unwanted LT Merlins. The following web page illustrates the chequered career of this bus:- https://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/
In the picture above, taken early in London Country days in 1970 at Tring garage, XMB 15 has lost its London Transport roundel on the front panel, but has yet to receive its LCBS “Flying Wheel” symbol. The Strachans bodies on the early Merlins proved to be of sounder construction than the Metro-Cammell examples on the later deliveries, which quickly showed evidence of structural failure in the roof section above the central doorway.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox
10/05/19 – 06:58
Thank you Roger, Little known about vehicle article and photograph, I just thought these were rather mundane vehicles but did travel on the Red Arrow when they were new. So which one was the model done of ?, possibly a Dinky Supertoy or a Corgi, I did have one, but in my younger days it was repainted to look like an LUT Seddon, that will start the comments flowing, methinks.
Mike Norris
10/05/19 – 07:00
Didn’t quite a lot of these end up being sold to Belfast after being stored at Radlett?
David Pomfret
11/05/19 – 07:00
Several of the Strachan bodied versions along with the regular ones ended up at Gatwick Airport. Gatwick Handling had both types but Bcal and Airtours only had the latter ones. Nearly all replaced by Leyland Nationals.
Keith Hanbury-Chatten
17/05/19 – 06:50
In fairness to LT they were far from alone in having to withdraw MCW Scanias early as they suffered badly from corrosion. The one bought by WYPTE were all withdrawn early for this reason.
Chris Hough
17/05/19 – 10:32
All MetroScanias suffered this fate but, eventually, the Metropolitan had feet of clay. It did not fail as quickly as the MetroScania but in later life there were serious corrosion problems at the back end which some operators addressed by rebuilding them. The reasons for the LT failure with “off the shelf” designs is well documented (here, as elsewhere) – a sad indictment …..
David Oldfield
18/06/19 – 07:49
Surprisingly, when the Docklands Light Railway had a strike last year, 40-year old Metropolitan MD60 turned up on the replacement service. No corrosion apparent. So there’s a bit of life left in the design in London yet.
Bill
19/06/19 – 05:38
Bill, There are very few Metropolitans on the road now, because of the dreaded ‘metal moth’. MD60 is only in circulation thanks to a very lengthy (and no doubt costly) rebuild by the guys at Bus Works Blackpool and owners EnsignBus. See reference to it here: //ensignvintagebuses.blogspot.com
Petras409
26/06/19 – 09:45
Leicester Trust have one on the road as well.
Roger Burdett
17/07/19 – 07:04
Sister vehicle XMS6 (JLA 56D) finished up with The Violet Bus Service at Blackrock, County Louth but none of the Strachans bodied Merlins ended up with Citybus/Ulsterbus in Northern Ireland.
Bill Headley
18/07/20 – 07:18
I travelled on the Red Arrow XMS/MB family types many times in the early ’70’s . Blimey, everything rattled. Whether it was because they were driven with extreme gusto or that the bodywork was moving about I can only guess. The Strachans JLA-D ones were the worst, the rear of the bus I know now wasn’t attached to the chassis – (is that really right?) which presumably accounted for the rolling and rattling. Still, the fare was only sixpence.
Roger Ingle
18/07/20 – 15:24
Roger I – I have also read that the rear end of the Strachans bodies were not attached to the chassis; and I believe that the same was true of a Daimler Roadliner bodied by East Lancs for Eastbourne Corporation. The thinking was that, with the heavy engine mounted almost at the extreme end of the rear engine, the chassis was inevitably prone to significant vibrations (cantilevering effect). It was anticipated that, over a period of time, this would have the effect of breaking the body structure in the middle, and that the problem would be more severe if the vehicle had a centre door. The subsequent history tends to suggest that Strachans and East Lancs were correct in their assumptions. Unsurprisingly, the problem was particularly acute with long Daimler Fleetline single deckers, where the engine was mounted transversely, so that all of the weight was concentrated on the rear 3 feet of the chassis. In the mid-1990’s I had occasion to visit an independent operator who had several such Fleetline single deckers (ex-Darlington I think), and we were shown one where the roof above the centre doors had been strengthened at least twice. The effect could justifiably be compared to a camel!
Nigel Frampton
20/07/20 – 06:53
A floating cab was not unknown on half cabs. On breaking the back of rear engined buses. Once drove for a small(ish) coach operator who had four early Scania/Irizars. There were alarmingly evident cracks in the bodywork near the rear axle. Modern Irizars have a good reputation. Maybe they found a solution – but they hadn’t about twenty years ago.
David Oldfield
05/10/21 – 06:24
Thanks for the article and photos. I am making a model using Paragon Kits excellent resin kit so this will be very helpful for the detailing (I shall do it as original all seated with 46 seats).
East Yorkshire Motor Services 1962 AEC Bridgemaster Park Royal LD72F
Photo taken Hull bus station July 1965 or 6. The code LD denotes that it is a lowbridge vehicle but with a highbridge type seating layout.
A full list of Bridgemaster codes can be seen here.
East Yorkshire bought a large batch of both Bridgemasters and Renowns between 1960-66. It’s early Bridgemasters 1960-61 were rear door some with and some without the tapered ‘Beverley Bar’ Roof. From 1962 onwards the standard Park Royal body was with a tapered roof that appeared on both models. The last Renowns of 1966 vintage had a short EYMS life as they were swapped for Tynemouth and District Fleetlines in 1972. I believe because EYMS needed to bring in front entrance buses, this may be because the local Hull Corporation had by 1972 totally switched to one man operated Atlanteans and the city bus station stands were altered accordingly, making the EYMS fleet overrun the stand entrances. Feel free to correct if anybody else has an alternative answer to the fleet swap.
Anonymous
I think the Coach Station layout is a red herring, as the later Bridgemasters and Renowns were front entrance, but is in fact to do with EYMS introducing the ‘Farebox’ services within Kingston upon Hull services and these were to be OMO services for which the older, having a separate driving cab, were unsuitable, hence the 20 Fleetlines bought from Tynemouth.
Keith Easton
14/11/12 – 07:11
The PSV Circle, who could be said to hold the ‘copyright’ on body codes, actually abandoned the use of the code ‘LD’ decades ago, simply because it became impossible to draw a dividing line between low and normal height – once low-frame chassis were available operators could, and often did, have bodywork built to whatever height they wished. If a vehicle was 14’0″ high, would it be H or LD? Current convention would regard the above as H72F, in spite of its obvious low height.
East Yorkshire Motor Services 1961 AEC Bridgemaster Park Royal H45/28RD
I don’t think there were many rear entrance Bridgemasters built – you did not see many 30ft rear entrance buses they were usually 27ft 6in. Note the luggage rack just inside the door there would also be space under the stairs this was probably for tourists suit cases in the Bridlington area. The Bridgemaster had a low floor on the lower deck so it could have a normal seating arrangement upstairs but still be able to negotiate the Beverly Bar. The registration number is something like 1703 AT but the angle is not good to see clearly worked it out from now found fleet list reg 4703. If you look at the bus behind it is a full fronted Leyland Titan with the Beverly Bar roof.
A full list of Bridgemaster codes can be seen here.
25/11/11 – 17:03
Does anyone have photos or a list of those Bridgemasters and Renowns that carried the illuminated “It’s Best By Bus” slogans on the offside? I grew up on Longhill Estate, firmly in EYMS territory, and I can remember those signs looming out of a foggy winter evening whilst heading home after spending the afternoon being dragged around Hammonds or the Co-op.
Andrew Ottaway
26/03/12 – 14:28
Despite the design, these (nos 700 to 715) had tapered upper deck profiles for the Bar operations as did subsequent Bridgemasters, Renowns and Fleetlines 825-36/52-7/66-72. The first four Bridgemasters 696-699 did not have this.
Malcolm Wells
26/03/12 – 17:03
I lived on the West Hill Estate in Bridlington until December ’63 (aged 5-7). Buses from this batch (700-715) worked the Estate route from new – The domed roof buses (as I saw them) hardly ever appeared thereafter. When I moved to Leeds I drew pictures of green Leeds buses with a luggage rack inside the rear entrance – I just assumed all rear-entrance buses had luggage racks there, having experienced nothing else! 703 seems to be very photogenic – there’s a photo of the same vehicle in the specialist AEC Bridgemaster book! I’d love to know how many of the 16 in the batch worked out of Quay Road 61-63.
Barry Parker
27/03/12 – 15:56
Andrew, here’s a link to an EYMS Bridgemaster with a raised advertisement panel. I don’t know if it’s an illuminated one though. //www.eyms.co.uk/
John Darwent
28/03/12 – 08:29
I’m not sure about this, but I believe all the buses with raised advertisement panels were illuminated, but I think that this would have fallen into disuse at some period.
Keith Easton
28/03/12 – 11:27
Andrew – Here’s a link to the ‘It’s Best by Bus’ advert on EYMS Bridgemaster 725 //www.eyms.co.uk/
John Darwent
06/06/12 – 17:40
I found these posts very interesting as I was employed as a bus driver at Anlaby Road depot from 1963 till 1970 upon which I left for Australia. Yes I well remember driving a Bridgemaster the first time through the Beverley Bar and ducking my head !!!! another time which makes me smile, we were coming along Hessle Road into town in a saloon and when I pulled up at the bus stop my mate opened the door and said to this guy who was full as a boot ” we are full upstairs ” and he said ” ok mate I will wait for the next one so I can have a smoke” happy days.
Tony Frost
07/06/12 – 07:03
Nice anecdotes, Tony!
Chris Hebbron
06/09/12 – 07:34
Photograph of 3747 RH with the illuminated “It’s Best By Bus” slogan on the offside for Andrew 1st comment above.
John Thompson
24/02/13 – 08:14
Thanks for the replies, and particularly John’s links.
Rotherham Corporation 1961 AEC Bridgemaster Park Royal H43/27F
This photo was taken if I remember correctly at Doncaster bus station of a Rotherham Corporation AEC Bridgemaster it shows off well the very square and rather top heavy appearance of the Park Royal body. Although the Bridgemaster was badged as an AEC it was actually designed and developed at Crossley Motors in Stockport Cheshire. It had AEC running gear and a Park Royal body but it was first seen on the Crossley stand at the 1956 Earls Court show. All production models after the show were named AEC Park Royal Bridgemaster not a mention of Crossley anywhere.
Just to confirm that the photo is taken in Doncaster at the old Waterdale bus station. The bus is operating on the 77 service which was the Doncaster to Sheffield route via Rotherham, this service was jointly operated by Rotherham, Doncaster and Sheffield Corporations. The route was moved into the then new South Bus Station and Waterdale was made into a surface car park. South Bus Station has now itself closed in favour of the new Frenchgate Interchange (formerly the old North Bus Station)
Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
Sheffield Corporation 1961 AEC Bridgemaster Park Royal H43/29F
I think this photo was taken when this bus was new it looks in very good condition to me. The angle of the shot does show up the very square and upright look of the Park Royal Bridgemaster. Why did the Bridgemaster have that small window to the left of the entrance doors (see D Oldfield update below) no other front entrance bus that I know of did. There must be a reason apart from just having a window otherwise moving the doors more into the saloon would be wasted space, bodybuilders do not waste space. If you know, let me know, please leave a comment.
Reg no 1925 WA fleet no 525 was one of six Bridgmasters supplied to Sheffield Transport the other five were all rear entrance. It has been preserved.
George
I think there was a first batch of six, all rear entrance followed 2 years later by a one off front entrance.
Anonymous
I have a shot of a rear entrance Sheffield Bridgemaster so I will do more research and it will arrive shortly with full details. In fact I have done the research and the bus arrived on Monday 3rd August, here is a link to it.
Peter
Sheffield Bridgemasters: 519-524 were rear entrance with a row of five rear facing seats, Lodekka style, at the front of the saloon. This covered the gearbox/differential housing – which can be seen at the front of the saloon of all traditional half-cabs. On Bridgemasters, this was extra large – hence the reason on the front entrance version for the doors to be set further back and the strange small window. From a Sheffielder who travelled – at times – on all seven vehicles.
David Oldfield
This photo would have been taken by the corporations own photographer. It is taken outside the gates of Norfolk Park. The council took photos of all there new buses here. The East Bank, Shoreham Street and Queens Road depots were all less than a mile from here.
James Walker
06/07/12 – 07:20
This bus was often to be seen on the number 7 route to Stannington
Brian
03/10/13 – 08:49
I have conducted on 525 doing a few weddings this summer. Can any of your Sheffield experts tell me why the lower deck has a green interior including seats whilst the staircase and upper deck is red.
Geoff S
03/10/13 – 14:35
Because that was the standard post war interior colour scheme until 1959. Only in 1960, with 1325-1349, did the inside saloons begin to have a red scheme, but not all. This scheme only lasted until 1966 when the interiors were again changed – this time to blue on each deck. Why? I have to admit, I often wondered that myself but – as we were often told in the days, it is because it is!
David Oldfield
03/10/13 – 15:41
David, I remember the wheels being blue for a while too, due to local politics, but don’t think that would be the reason for the seats as the council was very red at the time.
Les Dickinson
04/10/13 – 06:11
True or not, Les, it’s the sort of childish behaviour we’ve come to expect from modern-day politicians! Some years, ago, when Big Ben was being renovated, it was found that the original paint applied to the clockfaces was blue. In the interests of historical accuracy, preparations were made to repaint them blue, until the non-Labour MP’s got to hear of it. They remained black! Of course, compromise could have made three of them red, blue and yellow respectively, with the other one…… pink!
Chris Hebbron
04/10/13 – 15:14
On the interiors, we have to remember the down stair seats were upholstered, whilst the upstairs were leather, so smokers would not damage them. My personal choice was for red wheels with chrome rings, even though I come from the blue half of the city.
Andy Fisher
04/10/13 – 17:21
Blue half, Andy? That much?
David Oldfield
05/10/13 – 15:38
More like the blue 3/4 side.
Andy Fisher
22/10/13 – 17:37
Just thought I would let you know that the first vehicle in the fleet to have blue seats (moquette on both decks incidentally) was No 340, the Commercial Motor Show Atlantean exhibit of 1964. It was also the first to sport blue wheels. The Fleetline’s which came the same year had the normal red seats and wheels etc as did the Neepsend bodied Atlantean’s. It was 1966 that the blue seats and wheels were adopted as standard, the first vehicles being Park Royal and Neepsend bodied Atlantean’s and the Bedford VAS/Craven.
Trev Weckert
23/10/13 – 17:41
It was never going to be as attractive as Kylie M’s rear aspect but interesting nevertheless. Seen here before final touches added after repaint.
John Darwent
24/10/13 – 07:50
I always think that this PRV design was the ugliest they ever came up with and one of the ugliest ever by anyone. It first graced Atlanteans then PD2s, Regent Vs and Tiger (PS1/PS2) rebuilds. Nevertheless, every time I see 525 I feel a great affection for it. Are the proportions better than on the East Kent Regent Vs? Does the livery suit it better? …..or am I just a big softie who remembers the old girl when she was brand new, doing the Herdings in Sheffield? […..and that is a fantastic photo, John.] I’d love to have a drive of her.
David Oldfield
26/10/13 – 07:22
I seem to remember seeing the rear open platform buses, at the bus stop on Olive Grove Road on the 101 Arbourthorne route. Service 28 & 43 also run from that stop. Rightly or wrongly I believed that they had some kind of air suspension that you could bounce up & down. Would this be so? My times catching the 43, they had Regent 5s with front operated doors, a handsome bus, but I never rode a Bridgemaster.
Andy Fisher
26/10/13 – 12:15
64-73 were, indeed, handsome buses. 1963 Regent V 2D2RA with Weymann Aurora bodywork. They were regular performers on the 28/43 group. [My Grandmother lived on the 28 route.] You are right about the air suspension on the Bridgemasters.
David Oldfield
29/10/13 – 07:38
Here is 273 (originally 73) as mentioned by David above it is seen reversing at Lodge Moor Hospital on 20th January 1968.
Ian Wild
29/10/13 – 13:16
Thanks for that, Ian. I always thought that these were the best looking front loader AECs. 435-460 (1960s back loader Orions) were also handsome buses. A great pity that Sheffield never had front loader Roe bodies on their Regent Vs as the Park Royals were “unbalanced” and not at all attractive. Give me 64-73 any time.
David Oldfield
29/10/13 – 13:18
Here is an off side view of 66 (966 FWJ). What a day that was didn’t stop raining all day.
Peter
29/10/13 – 16:11
Totally agree, a handsome bus & the ones I remember. These were one of the first busses I remember that had the string pull bell, asking the passenger to stop the bus with one pull. There may have been other types, just that I did not ride them. I also think they had 2 door opening levers, one for the driver in the cab & one for the conductor on the bulkhead, or was there room for the driver to operate the bulkhead one. Of the Atlanteans of the era, I preferred the Park Royal bodywork. There was a coach building firm on Penistone Road, on the right hand side just before the speedway track outbound. I think they made the 1965 c reg, on the Shiregreen route, may have been 47 & 48 routes. Their terminus was on Bridge Street. They had twin windows at the rear & also the upstairs emergency window & not a particularly good looking thing. Does anyone have any photos or information on the coach builder or pictures? I have pictures of them as part of streets scenes, but no information, as the subject matter was on how things looked at the time.
Andy Fisher
30/10/13 – 07:07
They were the Neepsend bodied PDR1/2 Atlanteans built between 1964 and 1966. There is still a misconception about Neepsend Coachworks. Cravens of Darnall came out of bus building after the 1950 Regent IIIs for Sheffield. At the suggestion of East Lancs own board of directors they came back in 1964 by buying all the shares of East Lancashire Coachbuilders from their three owner/directors. Cravens decided to create more capacity by building a new factory at Neepsend, Sheffield but to use East Lancs designs. Initially this was done by building up East Lancs parts but eventually everything was built in Sheffield for Neepsend bodies. This didn’t last for long and extra capacity was unnecessary – so Neepsend production had ceased by 1968. [Neepsend quality was apparently not up to Lancashire standards either.] East Lancs continued in Cravens ownership until Cravens themselves were bought by John Brown and the Trafalgar House. Eventually ownership passed to Drawlane – but Neepsend was long gone by this time.
David Oldfield
30/10/13 – 07:07
Penistone Road- That would be Neepsend (which is where they were) who suddenly appeared there in the 60’s- until ? They were part of East Lancs and possibly there was an incentive to open up there. The factory had see-through doors and bus skeletons would slowly appear for passers by and then be clad.
Joe
30/10/13 – 07:08
Andy, Neepsend Coachworks was on Penistone Road as you describe. Neepsend was a subsidiary of East Lancs Coachbuilders, Blackburn. They built two batches of bodies of 20 each on Leyland Atlantean PDR1/2 chassis for Sheffield in 1964/5/6. I thought they were good looking buses, better than the Park Royals as they had equal depth windows on each deck. Neepsend fitted new staircases to Sheffield Weymann bodied Regents 811 and 813 at a time when Queens Road was overwhelmed by such work on the batch of 40.
Ian Wild
30/10/13 – 11:52
Ian, Neepsend was not a subsidiary of East Lancs. This is one of the long standing misconceptions of bus industry history. The correct story is given above in great detail by David.
Roger Cox
31/10/13 – 07:11
David, thanks for the clarification over Neepsend ownership. Huddersfield had 16 CVG6LX delivered in 1966, half bodied by East Lancs and half by Neepsend. The bodies from each source were randomly distributed amongst the fleet numbers. I don’t recall either make of body being any worse than the other when it came to the first COF at 7 years
Ian Wild
31/10/13 – 08:16
That’s OK, Ian, there have been years of obfuscation over the ownership but, even as a kid in Sheffield when they were built, I was aware that they were “really” Cravens. East Lancs, being the higher profile name, people would, and did, jump to the wrong conclusion. To be strictly correct, both East Lancs AND Neepsend were independent subsidiaries of the holding company Cravens. [The details came from the East Lancs book from Venture (or was it TPC?).] It was common to mix and match East Lancs and Neepsend in an order – I think it happened at Southampton – which I think is bizarre, but I wasn’t running the company. Somehow, I’d missed out that Huddersfield had any – only took 57 years for me catch up!
David Oldfield
31/10/13 – 15:07
I think a great deal of the confusion comes from the fact that traditional East Lancs customers placed orders with that company and, because of either lack of space at the Blackburn factory or to give work to Neepsend, orders or part orders were dealt with by Neepsend. It would be interesting to know how much say the customer had in where the vehicle was bodied. I know that in the case of Stockport its 1967 order was split because the chassis, already delayed due to a large order book at Leyland, would have lingered for many months, or been bodied by another company, had half the order not been dealt with by Neepsend. The two batches were at least numbered one following from the other but it was widely understood over the ensuing years in service that the Sheffield product was inferior.
Phil Blinkhorn
02/11/13 – 17:57
I borrowed a book from the library on Firth Browns steel company. One of the separate companies, (from poor memory Firths) bought Cravens, as a way of placing their steel. It said they made railway carriages, trams & busses. It must have been early 1900s, because there was not a lot of bus activity, although expanding fast, but lots of the other forms of public transport. The next time I use the library, (I will have to be quick as Sheffield is closing numerous libraries, politics, do not get me started) I will get the book out again to research, unless you chaps know the answer.
Andy Fisher
07/11/13 – 15:25
Got the book now. John Brown of Firth Browns (world renown steel company here in Sheffield), bought Cravens in 1919. It was called at that time Cravens Train & Carriage Company or something similar. I am not sure if Sheffield had any busses in 1919, as trams ruled. He bought it when work was short in the steel industry. It enabled him to sell wheels, axles & springs to them.
Andy Fisher
07/11/13 – 17:55
Just returning to the point about East Lancs orders being fulfilled at Neepsend, it seems all the frames were supplied from East Lancs thus enhancing the widely held view of the relationship between the companies that had Neepsend as the junior partner.
Phil Blinkhorn
08/11/13 – 06:39
Phil. I would probably still call them the junior partner, they simply weren’t owned by, nor were they a subsidiary of, East Lancs. Both were owned by Cravens – but in terms of volume and life-span Neepsend was certainly the baby brother, dependent on its older sibling.
David Oldfield
08/11/13 – 06:39
There is of course an interesting thread on a Neepsend posting under the Bodybuilder section of the OBP site. Coincidentally, the final post is by one John Brown!
John Darwent
24/11/13 – 07:38
I have got another book which proves my presumption of no buses in 1920. It shows a Daimler, double decker, solid wheels, with Allen (Sheffield) bodywork, around 1912. Any more info from you gentlemen?
Andy Fisher
26/11/13 – 15:42
In my last posting I should have said my presumption of no buses pre 1920 was wrong. Sheffield Corporation took over the running of busses a few days after WW1 broke out, around the 7th of August 1914. Did any other Corporations in other city’s do the same?
Andy Fisher
01/12/13 – 08:19
Lovely to see my favourite bus from my schoolboy days in the early Sixties is still alive and kicking! Driving down Wortley Road in Rotherham I could not believe my eyes when there she was parked waiting to pick up a wedding party! Who now owns her and where does she live? (the link at the top of his thread did not work when I tried it) I would love to visit her for old time sake and relive schoolboy memories. I became acquainted with her and her six rear loading sisters on the 101,102 & 105 routes to Gleadless Townend/Herdings in 1962. I always wondered why the Bridgemasters were used on these routes, there being no overbridges on these routes. I never saw them on any other route but previous threads show they were. The attraction about 525 to me was the lovely turbine like whining noise she made in top gear. this was not shared with her sisters, can anyone explain why. Does she still sound the same given she has been re-engined. You could always tell AECs because if the whining noise they made in lower gears but this top gear noise appeared to be unique to 525. I had heard stories that she had been preserved but it was lovely to see her out and about again. What happened to her and her sisters after they left Sheffield and why was she the only one?
Andrew T
You are correct Andrew the link goes nowhere, I have deleted it. Thanks for that.
01/12/13 – 08:48
1925 WA is believed to be privately owned by a member of the Blackman family, and is sometimes used on wedding and other hires by the same family’s Halifax-based Yorkshire Heritage Buses.
John Stringer
02/12/13 – 13:32
John Try the following website, www.yorkshireheritagebus.co.uk Its the Yorkshire Heritage Bus Company based at Luddenden Foot between Sowerby Bridge and Hebden Bridge in the Calder Valley. Their website shows 525 as part of their collection. It appears to be minus its fleet number and Sheffield coat of arms on its sides.
Andrew T
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
26/02/17 – 07:09
I was placed on Sheffield 525 as a trainee conductor for about a week on the Herding’s route during the long, bad winter ( ice, more than snow )of 1963 ; very glad of the doors! She was a splendid beast all round I thought. Some years later, when driving, I never got a chance on her, but once volunteered, after duty, to drive 519 back from the centre to East Bank garage just to have a go on a Bridgemaster. Sheffield, in those days, had transfers in the cab reading ‘Do not rest your foot on the clutch pedal’, and the way out-dated ‘ You are driving a covered top bus’ ! Overtime was referred to as ‘Suet’ for some strange reason. All in all, Sheffield had a superbly well maintained and turned-out fleet, with staff always correctly attired. I later moved to Manchester Transport at Hyde Road garage and was shocked by both the road staff’s bad attitude and their disregard for full uniform dress. The culture shock also included finding that conductors there were known as ‘Guards’, not forgetting new words like ‘Demic’, meaning something, e.g. a bus, having broken down ” It’s a demic.” One ‘guard’ I worked with there knew of the incident years before when a Sheffield single deck bus had crashed into, and brought down, part of the Manchester Victoria Railway Station facade. He said, The only good thing to come from Sheffield is the road to Manchester’. The fact that it is also used in reverse seemed not to have registered! Of interest is that the Neepsend coachwork’s building on Penistone Road was still being completed after production had begun there when a new wall collapsed crushing some part-built bus bodies. That must have been in 1962 ? I have some interesting correspondence from the late GM, Geoffrey Hilditch, whom I once met, regarding solving issues with Manchester’s trolleybuses and also the many problems adapting the former London Feltham trams to the Leeds system, but I don’t understand this site yet, so not sure where it should go.
Sheffield Corporation 1959 AEC Bridgemaster Park Royal H45/31R
Here we have a shot of one of Sheffield Corporations rear entrance AEC Bridgemaster. There was a shot of a Sheffield front entrance earlier this year (link here) and we had 2 comments disputing information, so I have done a bit of research and come up with the following. There was six rear entrance Bridgemasters fleet no 519 – 524, 519 was delivered January 1959 and the remaining 5 were delivered in February 1959. Incidentally there was only two other production chassis built before the Sheffield six one for each Walsall no 825 and Belfast no 550, there was five other chassis but they were for AEC themselves demonstrators and test vehicles I suspect. The chassis numbers for the six were 007 – 012, it is not until April 1961 and chassis number 104 that the one and only front entrance Bridgemaster for Sheffield was built making seven in total. So I hope that this sorts out the query into the number of Sheffield Bridgemasters, (unless you know different), my thanks to Bus lists on the Web (see credits) for most of the information.
519-524 were rear entrance with a row of five rear facing seats, Lodekka style, at the front of the saloon. This covered the gearbox/differential housing – which can be seen at the front of the saloon of all traditional half-cabs. On Bridgemasters, this was extra large – hence the reason on the front entrance version for the doors to be set further back and the strange small window.
David Oldfield
04/05/11 – 07:02
519 was a Commercial Motor Show exhibit in November 1958 prior to delivery. It was something of a tradition for Sheffield to have a new vehicle exhibited at what was then a bi-annual show. These were Sheffield’s first 30ft long double deckers and initially operated for a number of years on the 101 and 102 services to Gleadless and Herdings. They were later moved to the Dinnington services 6 and 19 where their low height enabled them to operate under the low railway bridge at South Anston. They had air suspension on the rear axle which I recall gave quite a bouncy motion as passengers boarded and alighted.
Ian Wild
05/05/11 – 06:53
…..and they hissed audibly.
David Oldfield
I would like to mention that the AEC Bridgemaster No.519 was a show model at Earls Court in September 1958. In early December it arrived at Queens Road and one lunchtime I rushed to the Works to catch a sight of it. My reward was to see the Rolling Stock Engineer, Ted Bale, climb into the cab, saying he was taking it to Leadmill Road. Unfortunately, I was not invited aboard. Taking a 101 route AEC Regent III to city, I alighted near to the depot, arriving there to hear Ted tell the Regulator, “Do a changeover and put it straight into service” on the 101 or 102 Gleadless route. The date was around 10th-12th December 1958.
East Yorkshire Motor Services 1961 AEC Bridgemaster B3RA Park Royal H45/28RD
One of East Yorkshire’s rear entrance AEC Bridgemasters. Just shows the Bridgemaster could look good given the right sort of livery, the Beverley Bar inward profile of the upper deck also helps. Photograph taken at Goole on 22nd February 1968.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
You are quite right. Why didn’t Park Royal think of it? The Beverley profile would have improved many of their 1960s offerings – not just the Bridgemaster. But where are the number blinds? A strange omission for a normally very fastidious operator.
David Oldfield
I believe that East Yorkshire buses did not start showing route numbers until around 1963, although they were used internally and in the timetables. This was the reason that Hull Corporation had to renumber some of it’s routes in the 1 to 12 series in September, 1963.
Keith Easton
Yet another most nostalgic picture for me, as a lifelong admirer of EYMS, but from a different angle. Right up to my retirement in May 2001 I often worked this route from Arriva’s Selby Depot, and also from Pontefract. Despite quite an infrequent train service the confounded level crossing gates at Goole always seemed to be closed for an age, just so that the trains could enter and leave the adjacent station at walking pace !!
Chris Youhill
So was this a joint service between Arriva (presumably, formerly West Riding) and EYMS, or was it taken over from EYMS later? I don’t think EYMS operate to Selby today, do they?
Chris Barker
To be honest Chris B I’m not too sure about that as I only worked for Pontefract SYRT and the West Riding Depots from November 1987. Certainly though there was no sign of EYMS in Selby or Goole by then so presumably the 1986 De-regulation had caused that change. The intermediate destination blind on the Bridgemaster shows “Hemingbrough/Osgodby” and there was no EYMS presence on that road in my time, so this is an interesting query isn’t it ?
Chris Youhill
It was originally an EYMS service, but passed to West Riding, I believe in NBC rationalisation
Keith Easton
Thank you most sincerely for that explanation Keith – I’m somewhat embarrassed at not thinking of it as the NBC rationalisation scheme had some quite interesting effects here in West Yorkshire and nationally too. Its just another indication of how easily such dramatic changes can fade from the memory in the vast range of topics that are covered by we serious enthusiasts.
Chris Youhill
Yes, thanks for that. I’ve long thought that EYMS oozes interest, not only for its fleet but its history, operations, area of operation and not least the fact that it is still very much in business (independent business!) Long may it continue!
Chris Barker
The Hull to Selby route was numbered 4 by EYMS and was on licence BE3/15, so it must have been in operation prior to the 1930 Road Traffic Act, as it is in the original batch of licences granted to the company.
Keith Easton
28/06/11 – 06:29
Interesting comment on EYMS buses. I have just bought an EYMS bus a Yellow Peril MKH 84 for preservation need some work but will be worth it in the end.
Martin Chaplin
28/06/11 – 09:12
What a very enviable purchase Martin, and all the very best to you in your preservation work. My main memories of these magnificent vehicles is of travelling from Leeds to Bridlington in them when they were new and could be found on that route – with their fifty seats and enormous accommodation for holiday luggage. Later, when I was in the RAF at Patrington (Spurn Point) and occasionally “detached” to Bempton, one of these fine vehicles would appear on the last short journey from Bridlington to Bempton and, if memory serves, this journey operated at a different time almost every night of the week. What glorious days these were !!
Chris Youhill
29/06/11 – 07:00
Hi Martin, it will be great to see a “yellow peril” on the road again, the last time I saw one was in the late ‘seventies. I think that photos of the progress in the preservation would be most interesting and informative.
Keith Easton
13/02/12 – 07:29
I am also looking forward to seeing one of East Yorkshires most iconic vehicles in the shape of a “Yellow Peril ” back on the road. Hull born in 1952, I had the pleasure of growing up with the Titans, Regents, Bridgemasters and Renowns – travelled many times on the Yellow Perils particularly when they were used as our school buses from Hessle to Beverley Grammar School in the early 60’s. A pictorial diary of the restoration progress would be excellent. I wish Martin good luck with his project, and hope to see MKH 84 in all its glory in the near future, maybe then we can persuade OOC or EFE to produce its first Beverley Bar model.
John Eggleton
02/05/16 – 14:00
EYMS do currently run Goole to Selby on a Sunday, having won the contract from the council about 18 months ago.
Sam Eyers
23/05/16 – 07:38
I thought I would send these along to add to the EYMS archive. One sunny Saturday in September 1961, when I was 14, we had a family day out (West Yorkshire excursion) to Bridlington and I’d been lucky enough to borrow my older brother’s Zeiss camera, with which I snapped these. It seems odd that I only took two pictures, but there were only 12 shots on a film and the processing cost me four weeks’ pocket money. How different it is now with digital. The single decker was buzzing backwards and forwards all the time I was there, and what a handsome vehicle it was!
David Rhodes
29/05/16 – 05:44
Ian Wild’s excellent print of Bridgemaster 4700 AT was, of course, taken in Selby Market Place not Goole.
David A
29/05/16 – 15:52
Two lovely pictures David R and Bridlington bus station was a real gem in those days. The double decker is, of course, on the famous number 12 route from Hull via Driffield, Bridlington, Butlin’s Filey and Cayton Bay. The route survives to this day. The very celebrated single decker is one of the AEC Regals taken over with the business of Everingham Brothers of Pocklington, hence the East Riding registration as oppose to Hull, the norm for EYMS
South Wales Transport 1960 AEC Bridgemaster 2B3RA Park Royal H43/29F
Now here is a shot of a bus somewhat out of its area, the photo of this South Wales Bridgemaster was taken in July 1969, in Dewsbury Bus Station. At the time it was working on Yorkshire Woolen district routes you can see the top blind displaying “Yorkshire”. I am not sure why YWD would need to hire/buy something so non-standard as the above for their fleet – shortage of vehicles for some reason perhaps or late delivery of new ones? I would be interested to know the answer – no doubt someone will know and let me know. Also in view is a 1967 West Riding Marshall B51F bodied Leyland Panther PSUR1/1 registration LHL 171F fleet number 171.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Bob Gell
04/04/11 – 07:04
At the time Yorkshire Woollen had a severe vehicle crisis. In addition to the Bridgemasters from South Wale some vintage Bristol Ks from West Yorkshire were also acquired. In addition a number of former Sheffield C fleet buses also entered service these were PD2s with Roe and ECW bodywork and some early Atlanteans all tended to be used on local area routes in Dewsbury
Chris Hough
04/04/11 – 07:07
The reason why Yorkshire Woollen had these Bridgemasters was due to a severe shortage of buses.Later Bristol K double deckers were acquired from West Yorkshire and United Auto.
Philip Carlton
05/04/11 – 05:30
Thanks, Chris and Philip, for confirming that YWD needed to buy additional vehicles because of a shortage of buses. I think most enthusiasts know they had those problems, but how and why did they occur? Every operator’s fleet needs eventually to be replaced, and YWD would, (or certainly should), have had a well-established renewal programme, as did all BET companies. That was standard policy throughout the group. So what caused the ‘severe crisis’?
Roy Burke
08/04/11 – 05:00
Chris and Philip Thanks for the answer to my query – as you probably guessed, this was taken at the same time as the West Yorkshire K5G already posted.
Bob Gell
24/11/15 – 06:08
With regard to Roy Burke’s comment, the reason these things occur is generally twofold firstly manufacturers delivering buses late; secondly and particularly when the old CoF system was in operation a larger number of buses than that planned for could need replacing. Of course the third reason is rarer but most to be feared: prohibitions on running vehicles by the Traffic Commissioner. Some fleets seem more prone to vehicle shortage than others. at SMT/SOL/Eastern Scottish it seemed to be endemic. Here we are talking about Yorkshire Woollen and I have a captcha ending in HD.
Stephen Allcroft
17/02/16 – 05:53
I am of an age that remembers the South Wales Bridgemasters coming to Yorkshire Woollen. The first one I saw was on the B&C services to Ossett from Fir Cottage and as someone who loves AEC buses and (Regent Vs) and still does it was hard to work out what was going until a really nice conductor told me saying “E lad we getting assorts coming, God knows what next” at this time various buses turned up on these routes ex Sheffield Atleanteans with I think regarding plates that began with BWB and buses from West Yorkshire which seemed to stay on the Thornhill Bristall A route but really at that time I think there was quite a shortage of new buses coming into service and as long as a bus turned up you didn’t bother where it came from but as a bus enthusiast it was paradise goodness knows how Central Works at Dewsbury knew where to find spares for them.
