Tag: Albion Victor

Guernsey Motors/Railways Fleet Number 77

A 1958 Albion Victor FT39KAN with a Reading FB35F body Registration 8226 – YFO 127

Guernsey fleet number 77, an Albion Victor followed a string of Albion’s supplied to Guernsey Motors and Guernsey Railway. Designed externally to look like coaches they are in fact buses, Licensed to carry 35 seated passengers and 7 standing, 27ft long and with a width limit of just 7ft (2.15mts) passengers were soon in “close contact” with their fellow travellers!

The engine a four cylinder Albion Diesel proved to be reliable, powerful for its size and economical (12 to 16mpg). The chassis has the benefit of being a straight ladder section design and as a result it was simple and strong. Ideal for Albion in that it was less costly to build and could be used as the basis for both bus and commercial vehicles. The rear wheels are driven by an overhead worm drive differential. The five speed constant mesh crash gear box is a delight, the gearstick is light to move, close at hand, precise and has a relatively short travel. The Victors were not fitted with overdrives and depending on rear axle ratios the top speed varies from 34 to 48 mph. 77 was originally fitted with a low ratio axle, 34mph, however during Brian Catchpoles ownership in the 1980’s and 90’s an ex Harrods van mid range axle was installed, 40mph! Magic! The KAN chassis as distinct to the earlier Victor AN chassis was given an up rated engine, brakes and road springs.

Red and White of Chepstow took over the Guernsey Railway in 1949 and Guernsey Motors in 1951. Red & White were associated with the Albion agents “Watts of Lydney” and henceforth Albion was the preferred supplier. A total of 39 Albion Victors were added to the fleet the last in 1958. The Albion Victor chassis was designed as a rugged and lightweight chassis aimed at UK mainland rural bus operations and the overseas market. The body was designed specifically by Mr. J.A. Davies, the Guernsey Railway Co. Managing Director. J.A.Davies had come from the Newbury & District Bus Company, a company owned by Red & White Mr J.A.Davies was impressed with the external appearance of their late 1930’s Duple bodied coaches.

Guernsey operated school, private hire, service, and island tour schedules and wished to imply to its travellers, tourists in particular that it operated a fleet of luxury coaches. With this in mind and J.A.Davies preference for the Duple style, the Guernsey body naturally followed the Duple Vista outline, but with bus instead of coach seats. This reduced the number of vehicles required and significantly improved the flexibility of the fleet. Interestingly the Duple Vista bodies J.A.Davies saw were essentially of pre-war design starting life in 1936.

The dual purpose Heaver body’s appearance hardly changed from 1950 to 1958. In 1956 Heavers stopped supplying the wooden framed composites bodies and changed to an all aluminium framed body designed by the British Aluminium Company, there were many minor changes but the most obvious was the loss of the inset windows and flared lower panels resulting in a completely flat side. In 1957 Heavers ceased trading and “Reading and Company” of Hilsea near Portsmouth started manufacturing the same design bodies for Guernsey, Readings continued to supply the same body until the last Albion had entered service in late 1958, However a similar style of body was constructed until 1973 on the Nimbus and Bedford J4 chassis the very last being made by Sparshatt’s of Southampton.

I purchased six Albion Victors from the company at the St Peter Port auction in 1980, five for friends and number 77 for myself. A challenging exercise, three friends came with me and enough batteries for one bus. The buses came back in threes, three by the roll on roll off Channel Islands Ferry and three as freight on the Commodore Clipper where they were stowed below decks and craned off in Portsmouth. 77 came on the roll on roll off service with the only set of batteries, the other two buses being” Tow Start Only”. Our arrival at Portsmouth in the dark involved driving 77 out of the ship, turning round and returning on ship to tow start the other two buses in reverse (We could only tow from the front of the buses ie nose to nose), not a popular move with Chanel Island Ferries. All was not over as I had purchased all the Albion spares from the company, these were in twenty five Jonny Walker boxes with the lids stuck down. Initially the customs officer’s eyes bulged with excitement, however some hours later we were “released” leaving a very disappointed Customs man on the quay side.

In 1981 I realised that owning three Victors (JMT 10 and NKO 953 Fuggles) and only having garage space for two was a disaster in the making and 77 was sold to Brian Catchpole. Brian obtained an early EN286 engine that had not been used, but required attention, he rebuilt the engine, re-panelled and re-painted the bus and looked after it until the turn of the century.

Finding empty space in my the garage enabled me to buy back 77 and use it for another five years, this included using it to transfer the wedding guests to and from the church when I got married. The arrival of a 1944 6X6 GMC truck put space at a premium and something had to go so the Albion passed on to Martin Willetts.

In two thousand and nine, I had regained a bus space in the garage and coincidently Martin wanted to sell the Albion! You have guessed it, I purchased the bus for the third time. A new ceiling, a rebuild of the rear mudguards the fitting of a new set of injectors, a new coat of paint, the reinstatement of the life guards and the original go faster stripes has put the bus back on the road again looking much as it did originally. The bus is now used on the occasional free bus service and to visit places of interest with friends and family.

For the purist 77 was supplied new in red and marked up as Guernsey Motors, it remained red for all it life but was moved from the “Motors” fleet to the “Guernsey Railways” fleet in the 1960’s. It now appears as a “Railways” bus.

The Guernsey Albion’s are a preservationists delight, virtually no wood to go rotten, only two steel panels to go rusty on the body, booking in at four tons ULW its relatively easy to work on, One person can easily take the cylinder off and change the engine if need be. Economical 14 to 15 mpg on long runs and 12 mpg n locals. Only 7ft wide but still carrying 35 passengers. Half drop windows, an art deco interior and almost pre-war body adds up to a very period bus with a unique appearance.

I could of course be biased having owned at one time or another.

15591937 ex The Grays, Guernsey
KCD 6971949 ex St Dunstans and Hovis
64361950 Guernsey 36 a bus that was cut in half and converted to a breakdown vehicle
NKO 9531950 ex Fuggles
64421954 Guernsey 52
804 FUF1954 Ex Jersey Motor Transport 10 – J 15213
8227 – JPA 83V – (YFO 127)1958 Guernsey 77

I was also fortunate in being able to “rescue” another six Guernsey Victors by purchasing and importing the buses on behalf of friends. They were all Guernsey Albion Victors.

UK RegGuernsey regFleet no
DS 6468617363
JPA 81V402973
JPA 82V402272
JPA 83V – YFO 127822777
JPA 84V822878
JPA 85V822676
JPA 86V – 842 FUF676866

You may ask what happened to JPA 83Vs Registration number and JPA 86V’s? My bus now YFO 127 was initially issued with JPA 83V and Brian Catchpole obtained the age related number, Noel Marshall did the same with 66.

In 1980 age related registration numbers were almost unheard of, and Surrey would only allocate suffix lettered registration numbers appropriate to the year of importation. The issue was further complicated in that I insisted the buses were issued with six digit reg. numbers to fit into the rear number plate box the modern seven digits were too long. I had to wait some three months for the JPA sequence to start. Eventually the Road Tax Office called to advise “Apply Now” we are issuing the JPA numbers. (No DVLA in those days)

Further history and Information on Guernsey and its buses can be found in two very comprehensive books “Guernsey Bus and Coach Fleet History” and “A History of Guernsey’s Buses, Coaches and Trams” both by John Carman.

Peter Davies

02/2014

09/02/14 – 08:15

My attention was caught by Peter Davies`s post of Guernsey Motors No 77 and I send you a few of my old slides from my first visit to the island in 1971 (flew by Vickers Viscount from East Midlands Airport).

A selection of views and I think among these are a good cross-section of the public transport on offer, I well remember being captivated by the retro charm of the island buses. and how they met the dimensional challenges of the island roads.

Rob Hancock

King Alfred – Albion Victor – AAA 756 – Victor 6

King Alfred - Albion Victor - AAA 756 - Victor 6

King Alfred Motor Services
1935
Albion Victor PK114
Abbott C20C

AAA 756 is an Albion Victor PK114 and it dates from 1935, when it was delivered to the King Alfred fleet. It has an Abbott C20C body and is seen outside Winchester Guildhall on 25 April 1993, the running day having been moved to April to mark the anniversary of the operator’s sale to Hants & Dorset. Its fleet number was Victor 6, according to the book on KAMS, but such things don’t seem to have appeared on the vehicles themselves. I know I’m digressing and perhaps it’s just my warped mind – please, don’t all agree! – but Victor 6 seems reminiscent of “Z Cars”, though there were only ever two of them, ZV1 and ZV2. I know that one of them was KTJ 578 and the other was (numbers unknown) VTB. I know, too, that KTJ was actually a Leyland Comet chassis which was bodied as the Lancashire Constabulary horse box. I saw it parked in Lancaster on a number of occasions. Any thoughts, please about what VTB was?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

23/03/17 – 07:55

ZV2 Registration number was 348 VTB, a Ford Consul saloon in the series. Information found on You Tube, hope this will be of use to the experts.

Ian Mason

23/03/17 – 07:56

No info on VTB, but IMCDb has JVX 959C and PHK 613D as well as KTJ 578 www.imcdb.org/movie_129723-Z-Cars.html

John Lomas

24/03/17 – 17:03

Thanks, John & Ian. I had stopped watching by the time the two Essex registrations came into the programme.

Pete Davies

24/03/17 – 17:03

Both this handsome Albion Victor and the little 1931 Dennis 30cwt, a fraction of which is just visible in the left of the picture, will be in service on King Alfred Running Day on the first of May.

Ian Thompson

28/03/17 – 07:25

AAA 756_2

Here is another picture of this Albion taken in Brighton during the May 1970 HCVC run, when it wore a less than accurate version of the King Alfred livery. I believe this vehicle still has its original 65 bhp 3.89 litre four cylinder petrol engine. The PK114 was the 17ft 2in wheelbase normal control version which appeared in 1934, four years after the introduction of the Victor model in 1930. Victor production ended in 1939 with the outbreak of war. The Abbott business emerged in 1929 from the failure of the car coach builder, Page & Hunt, at Wrecclesham, just south of Farnham on the Bordon/Petersfield Road. The firm concentrated mainly on car bodywork, but, during the lean 1930s, commercial vehicle coach building and sailplane construction was undertaken also, though these latter activities ended with the advent of WW2. Abbott continued car bodywork manufacture post war, but the diminishing market for this specialised business led to the firm’s closure in 1972.
AAA 756 has a curious history. It was bought by Robert Chisnell in 1935 as a coach for special outings, notably to race meetings at Epsom and Ascot, and it continued in service until war broke out, during which conflict it seemingly met with little use. Probably it was lucky to escape being requisitioned by the military. It saw some activity post war until withdrawal in 1949, after which it lurked in the basement of King Alfred’s Chesil Street garage until emerging from its hibernation after private purchase in 1959 by the Rolls brothers. It made several appearances thereafter before a programme of restoration was undertaken by Dave Hurley, by then its owner, in the 1980s. From 1993, now restored and in the correct livery, AAA 756 made many appearances from its base at the Scottish Vintage Bus Museum, until, in 2013, it became part of the FoKAB fleet. Incidentally, I think that the fleet name/number of AAA 756 is Victor 2 rather than Victor 6. Victor 1 was AAA 755, another PK114 of 1935, but fitted with a Duple C20R body. This was withdrawn in 1951. The third and last Victor to enter the King Alfred fleet in came in 1938, but this was a PK115 forward control example equipped with a Strachan C26F body. This one did get requisitioned during the war, and never came back.
The complete King Alfred fleet list may be found :- at this link

Roger Cox

29/03/17 – 06:25

You are correct, Roger. 756 is listed in the Freeman, Jowitt and Murphy history of the operator as “Victor 2”. Now, how did I conjure up “Victor 6”? It can’t be a simple typing error!

Pete Davies

25/12/20 – 06:30

KTJ 578 was definitely a fake number used for filming. I can’t think of a reason apart from the possibility that they wanted a Lancashire-looking number for Z-cars. However, the same number, on a Mark 3 Zephyr, also appeared in the film “The Christmas Tree”, in which, weirdly, it was again driven by Brian Blessed playing a policeman (this time in Bagshot!) 348 VTB was a proper number for the time, and probably the right number for the other Z-car.

Jonathan Cocking

Carmel Coaches – Albion Victor – LOD 495

Carmel Coaches - Albion Victor - LOD 495

Carmel Coaches
1950
Albion Victor
Duple C??F

As there appears to be no picture of this lovely coach on OBP , I am attaching one. It has been in preservation for many years with Carmel Coaches of Northlew in Devon and can still be seen at local events in the West Country. It was for a while used on Dartmoor Summer Sunday services connecting with trains – and other bus services – at the then newly restored Southern Region station at Okehampton. Initially the route was the 174 to Moretonhampstead where it met the cross Dartmoor 82 between Exeter and Plymouth. For a couple of glorious summers, the 174 was extended onto Widecombe in the Moor using some very narrow lanes. The Albion coped well with the lanes and the hills including the very steep one into Widecombe. One difficulty was with other traffic as visitors and indeed locals seemed to be unable/unwilling to reverse their vehicles in these lanes. This became a major problem when the Pony Club had their occasional meet on the Moor as their exodus with large vehicles or trailers – all at the same time – coincided with the last journey from Widecombe which had to connect with the said 82 and the last train at Okehampton. The owner of the Albion, who was the regular drive on almost every Summer Sunday over the years, was always patient and courteous and I am grateful to him for the opportunities to ride the coach.
The photo is taken at Hound Tor before the steep descent into Widecombe.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Keith Newton

28/08/17 – 10:12

This is a Victor FT39N powered by the Albion 75 bhp 4.88 litre four cylinder diesel engine that was delivered new to Way of Crediton in 1950. I believe that the gearbox is a five speed constant mesh unit. Nowhere can I find the stated capacity of the Duple bodywork, but this was usually 31 or 33.

Roger Cox

29/08/17 – 06:36

Roger,
My 1993 edition of Preserved Buses, Trolleys and Trams gives LOD 495 as an FT39AN with a Duple FC31F body.

Dave Farrier

30/08/17 – 07:57

Thanks for that confirmation about the bodywork, Dave. As for the chassis designation, this is FT39AN as you state, but it was often shortened with the ‘A’ omitted. Why? I don’t know, or indeed what the letter itself stood for. The final ‘N’ indicated the “normal” 16ft wheelbase, the longer 16ft 11ins version having the letter ‘L’ instead. The ‘A’ cannot have indicated an initial variant because the post 1956 versions became the FT39KAN and KAL. Perhaps it indicated forward control, but I know of no normal control examples. I have to admit that the some of the (pre Leyland) Albion company’s type numbering seemed to have no logical basis that I can discover. The initial Viking/Valkyrie/Valiant/Victor were classified as PA/PB/PC etc up to PW which clearly meant successive passenger variants. Then came the Venturer M81 and the Valorous M85, which were superseded in 1937 by the Valkyrie and Venturer CX. After WW2 the Victor name reappeared as the FT as seen above, contemporary with Valiant/Viking/Venturer models all classified CX, and the KP underfloor model. Then under Leyland ownership came the Nlmbus MR9 and the Aberdonian MR11, though the latter had no design similarity with the shorter Nimbus, being essentially a lighter weight version of the Tiger Cub. Then some degree of logic returned with NS for Nimbus (again with AN suffix), LR for Lowlander, VT for Victor, VK for Viking, before the Albion name disappeared forever. (Another firm with puzzling model designations was Thornycroft, but that is by the way.)

Roger Cox

31/08/17 – 04:56

At risk of seeming foolish, did the A stand for Albion (engine)? Valorous belongs to the Wulfrunian school of bus naming & then Valkyrie? With whole dictionaries to go at!
I’ll stick, BMW/Mercedes style with CVD6 and K6A!

Joe

01/09/17 – 05:48

Possibly, Joe, but why didn’t the contemporary Albion engined Venturer CX19 and CX37, Valiant CX39, Viking CX41 (a variant of which was called the HD61 – again why?) and the experimental KP71NW have the ‘A’ also? The numbers, always odds rather than evens, seem to have had some sequential logic albeit with gaps, though the number 39 was duplicated for the Victor and Valiant models. Perhaps Bletchley Park could come up with the answers to the Albion nomenclature.

Roger Cox

01/09/17 – 05:49

In John Gillham’s book “Buses and Coaches 1945-1965”, he says that the FT 39 Victor was introduced in early 1947, and that a modified version, known as the “FT 39 AN” appeared at the end of 1951, with the long wheelbase “FT 39 AL” following some three years later. The same thing happened to the Nimbus in 1960, when the NS3N was replaced by the NS3AN.
I take this to mean that the A was just a spec-update marker, rather as Leyland would later use it on PSU3A (and on to G), AN68A etc.

Graham Woods

01/09/17 – 05:50

Roger, according to definitive book ‘Albion of Scotstoun’ (Adama & Milligan) the ‘A’ suffix indicated improvements to the previous version, including a larger wormwheel assembly on the rear axle, improved braking, heavier springs, flexible radiator tubes, improved fuel filtration and minor wheelbase alterations. The insertion of the ‘K’ before the ‘A’ indicated a later variant fitted with the larger EN287 5.5 litre engine (replacing the EN286 4.88 litre unit) and heavier front springs.

John Stringer

01/09/17 – 15:19

Thank you Graham and John. That explanation does make sense. Back in its vastly superior days when Classic Bus was under Gavin Booth’s editorship it included a series of comprehensive articles on the history of the Albion passenger ranges by Alan Townsin. Sadly I gave all my copies away after being totally disenchanted with the magazine’s altered and self obsessed guise under subsequent editors. I remain rather baffled by the type letters of the heavier Albion models which all, passenger and haulage, seem to have been classified CX. In addition to the Venturer CX19 and 37, the Valiant CX39 and the Viking CX 41, there were the CX1 7 tonner, CX3 6½ tonner, CX5 12 tonner six wheeler and CX7 eight wheeler 14½ tonner. The FT3 code included a haulage version for 4 to 5 ton loads and one suspects that the straight framed FT39 Victor was a simple derivative from it. This webpage gives a list of some pre 1945 Albion types, though it is far from comprehensive in detail:- www.autogallery.org.ru/m/albion.htm

Roger Cox

02/09/17 – 08:08

Sorry to dive off the main subject but I just want to say how much I agree with Roger about Classic Bus magazine. Totally ruined by the Best Impressions outfit and a total rip-off based on the lack of content and acres of empty space on the pages. I have lapsed my subscription in disgust.
There I feel better now!

Philip Halstead

02/09/17 – 08:54

Interesting comment on Classic Bus as I feel it has gone the other way and improved enormously making it more readable and not just for the anorak which is where Gavin (an extremely knowledgeable guy) was taking it.
Best forgotten is the editor in-between.
Even if I am not totally in agreement with the content I still keep my subscriptions going as if we lose the magazines Bus & Coach History and reach to the public will be diminished and ultimately it makes the movement more fragmented

Roger Burdett

27/11/21 – 06:22

Researching this vehicle again it is pretty certainly a FT39N model of 1950, 25ft 6 ins chassis length. The engine is certainly the 4.88 litre EN 286, but the gearbox is a four speed constant mesh unit. The brakes were vacuum servo. The FT39AN, which appeared in 1951, had the engine moved forward a bit and the rear overhang extended slightly enabling 33 seats to be accommodated within the bodywork.

Roger Cox