CIE’s E-class buses were based on the 30ft Leopard L2 chassis. As well as being the last CIE single- deckers to sport a roof-mounted luggage rack, they were also the last single-deckers to be designed by the Company. They were certainly rugged-looking buses, which would no doubt have been quite at home on Ireland’s country roads. Early models had ‘single’ headlamps, but these were converted on overhaul to the twin-headlamp layout used on the second batch of buses (E81-170). The modified layout is nicely depicted here on E71, and note the almost obligatory advertisement for Fruitfield Jams. Wonder if it is still available?
Photograph and Copy contributed by Brendan Smith
30/04/13 – 17:06
Check out Wikipedia, Brendan: looks as if FruitfIeld are a founder member of a big food conglomerate led by Irish Jacobs biscuits, bought out from Danone: it includes Yorkshire Toffee! Much production is now elsewhere in Europe. The thing about old buses is what you see is what you get! (well except for AEC and Crossley… Park Royal and Roe… Albion and Leyland… Loline or Lodekka)
Joe
01/05/13 – 07:05
Thanks for the information Joe. I know what you mean about “who owns what, and where it’s made” these days. It can be more than a bit confusing. If you want to buy a British-built car, it may well have a Japanese name (Honda, Nissan, Toyota). If you buy a Vauxhall, chances are (Astras apart) it will have been manufactured abroad. Ford do not build cars here any longer, but do build engines, and your ‘German’ Volkswagen may actually be Spanish. In the bus world, the American Cummins concern builds engines in Darlington. Optare, once Charles H Roe and part of the old Leyland empire, is now once again under the ‘Leyland’ banner (well, Ashok-Leyland, once an overseas Leyland subsidiary) and Indian-owned. (Talk about going full circle, but hopefully this will provide much needed job security for people). We can probably assume that the new owner will not take the arrogant line with its customers as Leyland did under the watch of that comedian Donald Stokes. We all know what CIE thought of that…..
Brendan Smith
01/05/13 – 07:52
Why did CIE put DAF engines into Atlanteans? To be sure, to be sure. [Sorry!]
David Oldfield
01/05/13 – 07:53
First type of Irish bus I ever rode on from Shannon Airport to Limerick in August 1963. Passengers’ luggage was put on the roof and then had to be taken down again at the “border post” half a mile from the airport buildings as the terminal was in the Free Trade area and you weren’t officially in Ireland until you passed that point.
Phil Blinkhorn
01/05/13 – 11:45
The DAF DK1160 engine, an 11.6 litre derivative of the Leyland O.680 was employed by CIE when its Atlanteans had consistent mechanical problems and very poor support from BL. Both Leyland 9.8 litre O.600 and 11.1 O.680 engines were replaced
Phil Blinkhorn
02/05/13 – 07:45
As a born and bred Yorkshireman I’ve yet to see Clarendon Yorkshire Toffee for sale in the broad acres. The locally produced toffee is Farrah’s Harrogate Toffee made in Starbeck.
Chris Hough
02/05/13 – 07:46
Nice one David!
Brendan Smith
02/05/13 – 14:19
I just wonder, as the DAF engine was a development of the O.680, how they could have been so sure, or perhaps DAF just offered better service.
Seen resting in Tralee, this fine looking machine was one of 183 similar vehicles delivered in 1965/66. Mechanically, they sported semi-automatic transmission, air suspension and power steering, and internally fluorescent lighting and forced air ventilation were fitted. Interestingly, they had single curvature windscreens, rather than the BET-style double curvature screens gaining favour elsewhere at the time. That said, the CIE type of screen did lend the Leopards a distinctive air.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Brendan Smith
07/05/13 – 18:02
Presumably in the bus depot yard on John Joe Sheehy Rd. If only we had such interesting vehicles down here today instead of the unremitting diet of Scania/Irizar with a slight dilution of the one and only BMC (no, not them, I mean the Turkish outfit) school bus assigned to Tralee.
Phil Blinkhorn
09/05/13 – 07:44
Yes I think that’s the one Phil, if it’s the yard by the railway station (an ‘interchange?’). I sympathise with you on the lack of variety in Tralee nowadays. It sounds desperate, as my Irish grandparents used to say. Even in the late ‘seventies when the photo was taken, CIE still had quite a lot to offer the enthusiast. They could certainly muster Titan PD3s, Atlantean PDRs, Van Hool-McArdle-bodied Atlantean AN68s, Leopard Ls and PSUs, Bedford SB/MetSec schoolbuses, 12metre Leopard PSU coach and express vehicles with CIE/MetSec bodies, not to mention Leopard / Van Hool coaches, and the odd towing lorry converted from a full-fronted Tiger OPS. All that combined with wonderful scenery, friendly people and the best pints of Guinness in the world.
Brendan Smith
09/05/13 – 11:43
The yard is still there and the bus station building was redeveloped some years ago. “Interchange” is a bit of a misnomer as bus and train departures don’t tie up nowadays. The bus station is busiest on schooldays at around 08.45 and 16.00 when school buses abound – mainly from the CIE service fleet but augmented by private operators. When we moved here from the UK 15 years ago there were a number of Bombardier single deckers, VC class Caetano bodied Volvos – then a couple of years old – even ex Singapore VS class Volvo B57s as school buses. Since then we’ve had some tatty ex West Midland Lynx and a couple of Plaxton bodied VR class Volvos. Double deckers, other than the odd Neoplan tourist coach, are virtual rarities. There used to be a British registered PD3 at the local McDonald’s but that vanished in around 2006, leaving the Bus Eireann Bombardier open top double decker as the only “regular” visitor but even that goes missing in the rare years when Kerry doesn’t win the All Ireland Football Final. Considering the range of vehicles in the fleet, we have very little to look at.
Phil Blinkhorn
06/11/18 – 08:53
It should be noted that this livery layout was unusual on the C class Leopards with the original pointed roof ends (as on this bus) — all except two were all red with just the roof in cream. When the roof ends were altered to a flatter profile several buses had the cream applied down to waist level. Approximately two dozen buses of the 270 strong fleet did not have the roof ends altered.
EZH 234 is a Leyland Leopard PSU3 4R coach with METSEC body. It operated for CIE [Coras Iompair Eireann] and is preserved in their brown and cream livery. It was new in 1966 as B53F [fleet number C234] and reseated to C45F in 1968. In 1986 it was reseated to B55F and transferred to Bus Eireann as their CS234 in 1987. Withdrawn in 1995 it has been restored to its C45F layout. The picture was taken at Gaydon Heritage Centre – Buses Festival 2014
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ken Jones
07/09/14 – 18:00
Looks like an excellent restoration. The colour scheme complements the METSEC body which is an interesting and very creditable blend of BET and CIE designs. Having sampled CIE’s previous Leopards on express services in the earlier part of the decade, I wonder how the ride was on Irish roads, especially as it aged. Having sampled two ten year old examples of the Bus Eireann Scania/Irizar Century a couple of days ago, between Tralee and Limerick and back, I would think the vehicle would have been allowed to deteriorate fairly rapidly as CIE and Bus Eireann work their charges very hard on roads that, away from the major cities, are not the best.
Phil Blinkhorn
09/09/14 – 07:00
This is certainly one handsome beast and a beautiful restoration.
Ireland’s national transport authority – CIE – came late to the rear-engine bus scene. Although they had been wooed by Leyland from an early date (and even trying a Guy Wulfrunian), the first buses from an initial order for 341 Atlantean PDR1/1′s did not enter service until late 1966, known as the ‘D’ type. Subsequent batches brought the total number of PDR1’s to an amazing 602 by 1974, followed by a further 238 AN68/1’s by 1977. To reduce costs and to give work to CIE staff, all the chassis came in knocked-down form for local assembly and, because CIE were unimpressed with the box-like shape of early Atlanteans, they were fitted with these unusual CIE/Metal Sections bodies. The first 218 were fitted with a front-entrance 78-seat body but the remainder had 74-seat dual-entrance bodies in the certain expectation of one-person operation which, because of local union objections, never materialised until 1986, by which time many of the early examples had been withdrawn. Leyland’s notoriously unreliable vehicle performance, spares availability and after-sales service during the 1970s finally exhausted CIE’s patience, and many Atlanteans (and Leopards) had to be re-engined by DAF and GM. In a desperate attempt to break away from their reliance on British supplies, and to create a totally home-grown bus industry, CIE came up with the unique German-designed, GM-engined Bombardier buses in the early 1980s which were built in Shannon – but that’s another story. This photo of D353 shows one of the 1970 batch of PDR1A/1’s on Dublin’s O’Connell Street in 1984, two years before CIE decided to split its bus and train divisions into separate companies (Irish Bus, Dublin Bus and Irish Rail). It is seen wearing the thankfully short-lived tan livery which replaced the smarter blue and cream scheme, before giving way to a smart two-tone green as seen on the Bombardier in the photograph.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Paul Haywood
26/10/12 – 07:37
A cast iron contender for the Ugly Bus page.
Phil Blinkhorn
26/10/12 – 10:11
Exactly my reaction, too, Phil! Looks like CIE’s experience with Atlanteans mirrored M&D’s experience, also.
Roy Burke
26/10/12 – 10:12
Yes, Phil, but how high would it be in the ratings, bearing in mind what ugly ducklings are on that page already? Too new for this site, but I have a view of one of the tan-liveried ones (Van Hool/McArdle body) on parade in Southampton for “Committee Inspection”, alongside the usual East Lancs product in July 1975. I was under the impression that CIE had a green and cream livery – the one with the flying snail logo – before the tan, and then they went to the blue and cream one which I’ve seen at Duxford a couple of times, before going to two-tone green. Liverpool and Birmingham respectively spring to mind, but whose livery inspired the tan? More important, how far adrift from reality is my memory?
Pete Davies
26/10/12 – 10:20
Amazing Phil – I read that bit about CIE/Metal Sections bodies, but I didn’t realise the metal sections were cast iron!
Stephen Ford
26/10/12 – 14:26
Pete, The double decker liveries were: pre war and into the late 1940s mid green with three white bands Late 1940s to 1961 the green was much darker and the bands were painted light green. From the 1961 the colour scheme was gradually changed across the fleet to a blue and cream one reminiscent of Birmingham’s, including the sandy coloured roof, though this feature was deleted on repainting. The first Atlanteans appeared in that scheme before the adoption of the scheme shown above, which was not applied to front engined double deckers.
Phil Blinkhorn
26/10/12 – 17:27
Baffling, isn’t how in Dublin the buses were ever Black and Tan? This body had the bookends look with sloping front and back- a precursor of the Olympic “Routemaster”? Works no better…. but then a sort of nod to Liverpool with the peak. The side window frames slope one way, and the upper front deck the other. The strong (that’s the answer) green now looks good, as did the original green- with those Gaelic bus stop signs.The old CIE logo was (also?) a circle of segments (if you follow). If you want to see lots of buses (no wonder the fleet is huge) go to Dublin: the only way to get around is the bus. Off topic but still Leyland: what were those two Titans tantalisingly in the background in the Antiques Roadshow last Sunday? Beautiful greeny/goldy livery on one, despite what I just said….
Joe
27/10/12 – 06:23
Thanks, Phil.
Pete Davies
27/10/12 – 06:25
The Titans were a Massey bodied PD2 late of Birkenhead in blue and cream and the other one with an MCW body once belonged to Wallasey.
Phil Blinkhorn
27/10/12 – 06:27
Sorry, Joe, I cant give you a definite answer as I didn’t see the programme. However, it came from Port Sunlight so the most likely answer is that the blue one would have been either one of the two preserved Leyland’s from Birkenhead Corporation fleet. Both are Massey bodied, BG 9225 is a 1946 Titan PD1/A and FBG 910 is a 1958 PD2/40. I don’t know where the green/gold vehicle would be from, unless of course it was both of them and one had been given a repaint for some special event and will be returned to its correct livery at a later date
Ronnie Hoye
27/10/12 – 09:36
Joe, you’re right about the strange choice of liveries used by CIE over the years. The original green was logical enough considering their history, but to go black and tan for the buses (and – don’t forget – the railways) always seemed perverse considering the baggage that those colours carried. You say the only way to get around Dublin is by bus, but don’t forget their two superb tram lines and the extensive Dublin Area Rapid Transit railway which have transformed the city’s transport network in recent years.
Paul Haywood
03/01/13 – 13:02
As an Irish person (and transport photographer) I feel I have to correct comments made here. We never had a black and tan bus livery anywhere in Ireland. The buttermilk tan livery, as shown in the picture at the top of this page, replaced a livery known as monstral blue and cream, which looked very similar to black and white, the blue was very dark and the cream was very light! Then of course when C.I.E was spilt in 1987 the Atlanteans took on red and white Bus Eireann livery or Dublin Bus Green, depending on which of the 2 companies they were working for. As I can’t post links here check out my flickr page, under the name irishmanufan, in the collections fotopic rescue and rallies and preserved buses to see pictures of Irish Atleanteans in monstral blue and cream, butter milk tan and Dublin Bus Green. 2 are standard D’s (PDR1) and one is an AN68.
Linda
Just include the url if you want to post a link. Irishmanufan
03/01/13 – 15:29
Fair point, Linda, but “black and tan” has been a description long used for this CIE livery (and particularly for the railways of this period) by many enthusiasts both British and Irish, rightly or wrongly. As you will know better than me, the shade of “tan” on the bus illustrated here varied considerably between batches and overhauls and some were distinctly darker (and more “tan”) than shown here. The point of the postings is to say “good riddance” to this livery, regardless of how it’s described, when we consider the more attractive liveries that were used before and since this period.
Paul Haywood
03/01/13 – 15:30
The blue CIE livery was in some ways a copy of the Birmingham livery and was applied in similar manner. No operator would dare to run buses in the Republic in black and tan!
Chris Hough
04/01/13 – 14:07
I’m still baffled. If you were going to use “buttermilk tan”, it is hardly tactful to team it with “Guinness black” wheels. The original West Yorkshire Metro livery was, if I recall, Buttermilk (lighter than this) with a gentle (emerald) green- and red wheels? That would have done the trick. Fortunately, caramac clearly didn’t last long: could have been worse: pink & blue with fuzzy bits.
Joe
08/02/13 – 06:40
This livery was NEVER described as Black & Tan on C.I.E buses…The correct livery was Middle Buff made by British Paints Ltd and its reference no. is BS 350…I know this as Liam Dunne, no less told me when I did stand work with him at the Commercial Motor Show in Earls Court in 1974 and later at the NEC in 1978..Liam was C.M.E of C.I.E Road Services and later M.D of Van Hool McArdle in Spa Rd Dublin.. Hope this helps..
David O’Connor
14/04/13 – 08:02
Well I never heard the original D class Atlanteans described as ugly before. They were a significant advance on other bodies back in 1966.
tarabuses
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
18/10/13 – 18:35
I’ve just bought a new scanner and got a far better scan of the CIE Dublin Atlantean. This shows a more accurate “tan” which may or may not settle the “black and tan” controversy.
To contrast with the view of Atlantean D353 already posted on the website, is this one of of sister vehicle D300. It is seen in the original dark blue and cream livery, which was phased out in favour of the all over sand-coloured scheme in 1974. The bus is seen if memory serves correct, in the city of Cork in the late 1970’s. The beautifully quaint destination of ‘Statue’ is wonderful, but then again, the locals will no doubt know which one and where it is…..
Photograph and Copy contributed by Brendan Smith
24/04/13 – 07:52
This vehicle still has the original lower front panel with mouldings around the headlights, and spotlights (compare with the photograph of D353) – anybody know why the modification was subsequently made? And I remember reading years ago – it must have been in a late 70s/early 80s Buses Annual – that these Atlanteans had “top deck header tanks” . . . to what purpose? As an aside, at the nadir of CIEs’s fortunes between the last Van Hool Atlanteans and the delivery of the first Bombardiers it used to be said that CIE was an acronym for “Cycling Is Easier” – though by the time I had cause to use Iarnrod Eireann/Bus Eireann/Dublin Bus services regularly (early 1990s) things had markedly improved. Anyway, you couldn’t call this an attractive design of body but at least its different, in a “functionally brutal” sort of way – I think it’s got more going for it than, say FRM1 which was 50s half-cab styling dumped on a rear engined chassis, in so far as it pushes design and tries to be different.
Philip Rushworth
24/04/13 – 11:27
If I remember correctly the replacement front panels were the result of accident damage and were fabricated in CIE’s own works – and simplicity being the watchword.
Phil Blinkhorn
25/04/13 – 07:36
Yes, Brendan, you’re right, this is Cork. The bus is heading north up Grand Parade towards the landmark “Father Mathew” statue which had been a city terminal point since tramway days. Nice to see this bus in its original blue and cream livery.
