Tag: Leyland

Huddersfield Corporation – Leyland Titan – WVH 419 – 419

Huddersfield Corporation - Leyland Titan - WVH 419 - 419

Huddersfield Corporation
1963
Leyland Titan PD3A/2
Roe H39/31F

Since the formation of the partly railway-owned Huddersfield Joint Omnibus Committee in May 1930, the arrangement had been that tram and trolleybus routes, irrespective of whether they ran within or without the borough, were to remain the business of the Corporation, and that all motorbus routes would be run by the JOC ” a very different arrangement to JOC agreements elsewhere. When the Corporation finally made a decision to abandon trolleybuses from 1961 and replace them with motorbuses, then the converted routes would remain in Corporation control. With the introduction of motorbuses on the 30 Almondbury to West Vale route in November 1961, eight Leyland PD3A/2’s with Roe H39/31F bodies (401-408, UCX 401-408) were delivered ” a new type for Huddersfield ” in a streamlined variation of the livery. They were not well received at the time, being considered noisy and slow, adding considerably to the time taken to climb from Elland to Ainley Top up the steeply graded ‘Ainleys’ compared to the trolleybuses.
For the next conversions a further 16 of the same type were purchased (409-424, WVH 409-424), delivered in two batches in late 1962/early 1963. Eight similar, but shorter PD2A/24’s were bought for the JOC later in 1963, being in the JOC’s more conventional three-cream-banded livery, but then allegiance switched to Daimler products. Trolleybuses were abandoned altogether in 1968, and in October 1969 the Corporation took over the former railway-owned share of the JOC, as well as the local stage services of Hanson’s Buses Ltd, so from then the operation was all ‘Corporation’. Someone then suggested a new version of the livery should be introduced for the newly combined operation, and 419 (as seen above) was duly turned out in this scheme that can surely only be described as truly dreadful ” rather like the drab Hanson all-over red with a cream front. Here it is seen in John William Street in September 1970. Thankfully, this particular idea was not adopted.
Following the formation of the West Yorkshire PTE twelve of the WVH-registered buses were transferred to Halifax (Metro Calderdale), including 419 – soon after renumbered 4419. All but one were repainted into WYPTE livery and soldiered on having quite a hard life on Halifax’s arduous routes, 4419 being withdrawn in September 1979, then sold at auction to a scrap dealer. The last one (4418) was withdrawn in February 1980 being one of the last three halfcabs in the Halifax fleet. Of the ones that remained at Huddersfield, some were sold for further service with OK Motor Services of Bishop Auckland, in whose livery they looked superb. One was later used as a static restroom and changing facility at the Beamish Open Air Museum, painted allover grey, but is believed not to have survived.

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer

21/06/16 – 06:04

John says these buses were not popular when introduced. I think any motorbuses which replaced trolleybuses were on a hiding to nothing especially in such hilly terrain where passengers were used to a silent climb up the long slog to Ainley Top. The same happened in Bradford where the AEC Regent V’s got a bad reputation for noise and vibration when they took over from the trolleys on the climb up to Wibsey and Buttershaw. Bradford compounded the problem by moving to synchromesh gearboxes so in addition to the engine noise passengers were treated to the screaming whine from the gearbox.

Philip Halstead

21/06/16 – 09:06

Much as I loved trolleybuses Philip, and I did love them, if I’d been a resident of Wibsey or Buttershaw I’d have raised no objection at all and indeed I’d have been delighted, to enjoy the symphony that you mention coming from the gearboxes of the Regent Vs. If the totally unnecessary bad driving sadly so characteristic of many of the Bradford chaps on the Mark Vs had caused any injury or bruising I’d have had to follow the advice of the wonderful J. Stanley King and purchase some embrocation !! Oh to go back to the wonderful days of the 1940s/50s/60s when virtually every make and model had such character and individuality.

Chris Youhill

21/06/16 – 10:46

Indeed so, CY! We can of course sample these delights during rallies and running days, but it isn’t the same as experiencing them in normal service. Someone has commented on here in the past – I suspect it might have been Roger Cox – about having ‘steering technicians’ these days instead of drivers. All they are able to do is aim the vehicle; everything else is done automatically. When the Optare Deltas first came into service – sorry, folks! – Marchwood Motorways had some. Drivers of more traditional vehicles commented that they didn’t have even the rudimentary gear stick of a normal automatic, just three buttons: go forward, go backward, and park it. It worries me that some fleets now have them in their ‘driving schools’! Intended specifically for those ‘steering technicians’, perhaps?

Pete Davies

22/06/16 – 06:37

My memory of trolleybuses in Nottingham is that they were certainly quiet and powerful, even on steep gradients, but smooth they were not! The superb acceleration was achieved in a series of sudden sharp thrusts – reminiscent of an aircraft take-off. They couldn’t compare for smoothness with the huge fleet of pre-selector Regent IIIs.

Stephen Ford

22/06/16 – 06:38

The Leyland PD3, though undeniably a reliable plodder, was never a scintillating performer, and its braking characteristics left much to be desired. During my time in Halifax, the HPTD contribution to the 43 Halifax – Huddersfield service which traversed the Ainleys en route always consisted of PD2s which ascended the long, steep gradient steadily if not spectacularly. The Halifax JOC PD3s were generally relegated to the rather less demanding Hebden Bridge – Brighouse services. The prospect of going down the Ainleys with a PD3 would not have inspired confidence in me – I suspect that third gear would have been required to obviate severe brake fade on entering Elland. The ‘streamlined’ colour scheme of the Huddersfield Corporation fleet looked quite smart to my eye, as, indeed, did the more restrained JOC version of the livery. As John remarks, the appearance of the bus in the picture is absolutely terrible. I would suspect that this idea emerged from the engineering department where considerations of painting costs rather than presentational image took precedence.

Roger Cox

22/06/16 – 06:38

Bus sounds of old certainly stick in your mind. We had Regent V’s in Rochdale but they were of a special breed. Fitted with Gardner engines and preselector gearboxes they used to bark their way up Drake Street and then at the top would give that characteristic little jump forward as the driver pressed the gearchange pedal to change up. No screaming or whining from these beauties. And oh that livery!

Philip Halstead

22/06/16 – 06:39

With all due respect to the old-timers (being one myself!) I think your remarks about steering technicians is unnecessarily harsh. With the volume of traffic on the roads and the abysmal driving standards generally anything to make the drivers job easier is to be applauded.
Would you like to drive a bus with a crash gearbox on todays roads while collecting fares and dealing with the idiots on the roads and the moaning “t’wearlies” at every stop and behind you not to mention the drunken yobs on lates? I thought not.
I have never driven an automatic bus in my life (and very few semi-automatics), but if I were city bus driving today I would be grateful to have either !

Malcolm Hirst

22/06/16 – 06:40

At Reading Buses on Friday during a break on the 2016 Royal Blue Run one of the female technical apprentices asked what the long lever with the ball on top was for ie gearlever-she was being serious!

Roger Burdett

22/06/16 – 09:39

Malcolm I know exactly what you mean about today’s road and service conditions and nowadays you are right. As one who had to suffer many new fangled fully automatic systems in the 1960s/70s though I have to say that several of these were violent in behaviour and in certain circumstances downright dangerous. Take for example the first batch of 33 foot Fleetlines of LCT which incorporated a “kick down” facility – the very title says it all. Upon approaching a roundabout if you wished to change down you had to slam the accelerator pedal to the floor whereupon the infant electronics should have selected a lower gear. this failed more often than it worked and so, aided by the legendary torque of the Gardner engine, you were propelled towards the hazard at speed in top gear, or which ever ratio had been too high as you “kicked down.” On the other hand, and to be fair, all the modern systems leave me breathless with admiration as they “read” the road situation with incredible precision and change up and down imperceptively. The only exception in my experience were the dreadful Leyland Lynxes in which the ZF gearboxes regularly malfunctioned and “missed” third and other gears, causing the Cummins engines to scream to full revs in neutral and before your could ease off the gear would then engage with a violent thud – causing universal loud condemnation from the victims within “They’ve some rough drivers on this firm, we don’t know where they get them from.” The same could and did occur as you braked smoothly and the ZF decided to change down in a similar fierce manner, resulting in “Oooh this fella’s ‘evvy on his brakes” from within.
Speaking now admittedly with “forked tongue” I have to say that as an enthusiast I would gladly enjoy a live gearbox on urban service work, but I realise that’s an exceptional view.

Chris Youhill

22/06/16 – 14:47

Interesting use of the word “Kickdown”.
In automatic cars the kickdown was to engage a lower gear but for acceleration rather than deceleration.

John Lomas

22/06/16 – 14:48

I seem to have kicked over the ant-hill! I was not intending to denigrate today’s bus and coach drivers, for most of them do a fine job with the equipment they are given. As Chris says, some vehicles in the not too distant past have been dire in the way they have changed gear. First in Southampton have some Volvo double deckers (W801 series) which sound as if they are desperate for a gearchange, but I’m told that it’s actually the cooling fans . . .
I used to work for Southampton City Council on the traffic management side, and was the only one in the team who had ever driven a bus (though not on public service). Even my manager hadn’t. I took advantage of an invitation in the booking office window of the old Hants & Dorset Bus Station in Southampton – it was Hampshire Bus by then: “If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to drive a bus, pay us £10 and have a trial hour.” It was a Lodekka trainer of the EMR…D series, crash gearbox, so double declutch every move, and a big stick. At least it gave me some idea of what the bus driver had to contend with.
With reference to Roger Burdett’s comment, I was once told about two coach drivers who had been sent to collect a pair of new vehicles. I believe they were Neoplan Skyliners. The drivers inspected the exteriors and then had a quick look inside. They were appalled by what they found, and there then followed an urgent call to office. “We can’t drive these, boss. We’re only licensed for two pedals and a wrist-flicker, but these have three pedals and a big stick! HELP!” At least the ‘wrist-flicker’ is more like a real gearchange than the three buttons I mentioned.

Pete Davies

23/06/16 – 08:53

Too true Pete – when the first “buttons” Olympian was delivered to SYRT my heart sank and my fears intensified when we were taken out on “familiarisation” runs and I found that the Company had fitted a plate over the original “1, 2 and 3” buttons taking away any emergency control from the driver. My immediate protest about legality (in which I was eventually proved wrong it seems) encourages this unbelievably fatuous sneer from the uninformed senior fitter that “We’ve blanked them off to prevent you mad drivers from thrashing it in lower gears.” I still after 28 years cannot believe I heard that. When I took my objections to the General Manager I was told “Oh well if you don’t like it, take a screwdriver with you and remove the plate while you’re driving”, to which I politely replied that I supposed that I should then be sacked for interfering with the bus. So it was that the famous 107 “TWY 7”, which should of course have had an E *** *** number, leapt and jerked its misbehaved ZF way along, often in the wrong gear, especially in heavy urban traffic. The same “Company Luddite” treatment was afflicted upon the next two Olympians also. I retired in 2001 and I can’t for certain remember now, but possibly the offending plates were removed from the gear buttons eventually.
I’m talking now of course about the earliest versions of the “button” method and as I’ve said elsewhere the modern gearboxes are intelligent and faultless to a commendable and amazing degree, so credit where its due. To my traditional standards though, the buttons always reminded me of the “long, medium and short” wavelength buttons on old radio sets, rather than anything automobile.

Chris Youhill

24/06/16 – 05:57

The link below shows the first UK bus with three button gear control.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/

Stephen Allcroft

24/06/16 – 05:58

Chris, the ZF box, if properly maintained, was probably the best of the earlier auto systems in double deckers, though the Allison in single decks was OK. The sequence of torque converters with lock up at each stage effectively gave five gears, and the hold down buttons for the intermediate stages allowed some measure of driver control to considerable advantage. The policy you mention of plating over these buttons was stupid and insulting. If neglected, the ZF box could certainly behave in the wayward manner you describe, with thumping, rough changes at illogical speeds, but this was definitely a maintenance issue. Some of the Viscount (i.e. Cambus) Olympians of the Peterborough area displayed these symptoms, but in regular driving one did get to sense that the thing was about to change gear upwards, and easing the accelerator at that point alleviated the bang. Slowing down was another matter, and nothing could be done to minimise the savage lurch and thump of the lower gear engagement. By contrast, the Olympians at Huntingdon & District were better maintained, and the ZF gearboxes there behaved entirely properly. To my mind the worst of the earlier bus autos was the three speed Voith box that Stagecoach specified in the Volvo Olympian. With these, the engine had to be taken up to screaming full revs before the thing would change up, and, on slowing down, the lower gear would lurch in again at ridiculously high road speeds. When the bus was held in gear for more than a few seconds, such as when waiting to enter a roundabout, the Voith automatically engaged neutral, so that, when the accelerator was depressed to move off, the engine would speed up a bit before the gearbox engaged with a lurch. Several valuable seconds would thus be lost in trying to get the bus going again, and coupled with the miserable low speed torque of the Volvo engine, moving off could be decidedly sluggish and hairy in some circumstances. At Peterborough, the southern exit from Queensgate Bus Station is on a rising gradient into a fast, busy roundabout, and these Volvo Olympians were hopeless at getting out. Similar nightmares would be experienced re-entering the A1 traffic from village side roads, pulling into the A605 at Elton, crossing the A47 at Wansford……… I won’t go on. The Voith may have been simple and easier to maintain, but it was hopeless on the road. At Ramsey, our ZF Gardner Olympians would just about run for two days on one fill up. The replacement Voith Volvos had to be refuelled twice in one day. Yes, the modern transmissions do seem to behave better, but I retired (thankfully) in 2006, so I don’t have any practical driving experience with them.

Roger Cox

Lancaster City Transport – Leyland Titan – LHG 537

Lancaster City Transport - Leyland Titan - LHG 537

Lancaster City Transport
1961
Leyland Titan PD3/6
East Lancs H41/32F

At Local Government Reorganisation in 1974, Lancaster merged with Morecambe & Heysham to form a ‘new’ Lancaster City Transport. The operator found itself short of modern, serviceable, vehicles and some were acquired from Maidstone Borough, some from what had become Burnley & Pendle, one from Merthyr Tydfil, and there was even a Seddon (ex Demonstrator) which has appeared on these pages already. LHG 537 is one of the Burnley contingent, a Titan PD3/6 with East Lancs H73F body, dating from 1961. In this view, she is climbing the hill of Great John Street, towards Lancaster Town Hall, on the 2 to Hala. It is 20 May 1975 and she is still in the Burnley arrangement of maroon and cream – not a great deal different from the Lancaster arrangement – with fleetname in Tilling style.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

16/07/16 – 05:30

Lancaster also bought a lowbridge Atlantean from Trent and a number of ex Salford ones from GMTPTE In addition an ex Wallace Arnold Leyland Leopard was bought from Fishwick.

Chris Hough

16/07/16 – 17:16

Pete is quite correct when he says that the enlarged Lancaster undertaking was short of modern vehicles, much of the fleet comprising ageing AEC Regents at Morecambe. What is quite amusing though is that the “modern” fleet additions he mentions comprised of a variety of buses built between 1957 and 1961, so on arriving around 1974 were somewhat long in the tooth themselves!
The one depicted – and its sisters – were never used as OPO buses in Lancaster and nor were they in Burnley. However, the window to the left and behind the driver appears to have been modified, presumably for the purpose of OPO – and I note the unusual position of the mirror underneath the second ‘A’ of the destination, presumably to give the driver a view of the lower saloon/platform area with a view to being used single-manned.

Dave Towers

18/07/16 – 06:56

This batch of PD3’s had the front bulkhead window arrangement from new. It was a common arrangement on early forward entrance double deckers to allow drivers to see the platform and communicate with the conductor but OPO of double deckers was at that time a long way off becoming legal. The arrangement was tidied up on later designs with the whole front window being angled to avoid the two-piece window. After this it became less noticeable.

Philip Halstead

Western SMT – Leyland Titan PD3 – RCS 382 – 1684

Western SMT - Leyland Titan PD3 - RCS 382 - 1684

Western Scottish Motor Traction Co. Limited
1961
Leyland Titan PD3A/3
Alexander L35/32RD

RCS 382 is a Leyland Titan PD3A/3 with Alexander L67RD body, new to Western in 1961. It was still owned by Western when the 2012 PSVC list was prepared, but with the ‘Stagecoach’ fleet number of 19982 instead of her original. In this view, on Middle Walk, Blackpool, on 29 September 1985, It was taking part in the Tramway Centenary celebrations.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

02/01/17 – 07:45

Only my opinion, but I think they looked better when the wheels were red. That said, was there ever a better turned out large fleet than that of Western?

Ronnie Hoye

Rossendale Transport – Leyland Titan – XTF 98D – 45

Rossendale Transport - Leyland Titan - XTF 98D - 45

Rossendale Transport
1966
Leyland Titan PD3/4
East Lancs H41/32F

XTF 98D is a Leyland Titan PD3/4 with East Lancs H73F body, new to Haslingden Corporation in September 1966. Two years later, Haslingden and Rawtenstall combined their fleets to form Rossendale Transport, in which guise we see it here. It is taking part in the King Alfred running day in Winchester on 1 January 2006. It is behind the Bus Station.

XTF 98D_2

Here is a closer shot of the fleetname.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies

12/02/17 – 09:11

Think the vehicle is now in Oxford area working for an operator.

Roger Burdett

13/02/17 – 07:05

Thanks, Roger. I think that, when I took the photos, she was with Quantock.

Pete Davies

13/02/17 – 15:07

XTF 98D was last known with The School Bus Company (Oxford) Ltd of Kingston Bagpuize.

John Wakefield

16/02/17 – 16:01

Kingston Bagpuize … now how is THAT pronounced? The “Kingston Bag-” part is (I hope!) straightforward, but after that? When I first saw it (on a map or a road sign), I had an attack of franglais and rhymed it with squeeze, but I think I’ve heard it rhymed with views.
It would, of course, be delightful if the word is actually pronounced like … a certain saggy old cloth cat?

Graham Woods

17/02/17 – 06:23

Graham, according to Wikipedia (not always reliable) the pronunciation of (Kingston) Bagpuize is “bag-pews” – but I didn’t know either until your question prompted me to look it up just now!

Stephen Ford

17/02/17 – 06:26

Graham: I live only 5 miles from Kingston Bagpuize, and although jokey versions such as “bagpipes” are sometimes heard, the current pronunciation is as you’ve heard it—to rhyme with “views”.
It seems that Ralph de Bachepuze came over from Bacquepuis (pronounced roughly “back-pwee”) in Normandy to settle in north Berkshire, so your attack of franglais was quite in order.
Southmoor, adjoining Kingston, is fortunate enough to have the half-hourly 66 Swindon-to-Oxford service, but other nearby villages—Appleton, Fifield, Hinton Waldrist, Longworth and so on—have recently lost their bus service altogether and are therefore playing their patriotic part (at least according to George Osborne’s strange logic) in reducing the “drain” on public finances which decent public transport is said to represent.

Ian Thompson

17/02/17 – 06:27

Bagpuss, I believe.

Chris Hebbron

18/02/17 – 06:53

Thanks, Stephen and Ian, and yes, Chris, that is the cat that I had in mind.

Graham Woods

25/01/19 – 07:06

I used to drive XTF 98D on weddings etc. for Nostalgia Travel (Oxford). A very fine looking vehicle. NT sorted some issues with its injectors and made it run well – but, unfortunately, they had to re-trim the downstairs seats with PVC to replace the worn blue leather covers. Also, they removed the Rossendale name from its sides.
Compared to NT’s Gardner engined Bristol FLF, the Leyland Titan cab was much noisier. Its Leyland O.600 sounded well enough at idle but, crikey, what an ear-bending racket when accelerating up to its 38MPH maximum!
The scales tipped back firmly into the Titan’s favour when considering the two gearboxes, however.

Ade B

13/08/22 – 05:34

This bus passed me on the A4074 near Benson, Oxon today (12/8/22). Looked like it was on hire – for a wedding?

Alan Brampton

Ribble – Leyland Titan – RCK 920 – 1775

RCK 920

Ribble Motor Services
1962
Leyland Titan PD3/5
Metro-Cammell FH41/31F

In 1956 the UK maximum legal length for double deck buses was extended to 30 ft, and Leyland quickly responded with the PD3 chassis, essentially an elongated version of the PD2. Ribble ordered a fleet of 105 synchromesh gearbox PD3/4 machines distinguished by handsome Burlingham FH41/31F bodywork featuring a neatly designed full width front end. These entered service in 1958, but Ribble then tried its hand with the then very new and novel Leyland Atlantean design, taking 100 examples in 1959/60. All operators of the early Atlantean experienced a number of teething troubles, and Ribble, while continuing to favour the Atlantean for future orders, hedged its bets by partially returning to the more dependable PD3 for some of its 1961-63 deliveries. The bodywork was again FH41/31F, but this time of the aesthetically less appealing (to my eye, anyway) Orion style by Metro-Cammell . These later machines, which totalled 131 in number, were equipped with pneumocyclic gearboxes, making them type PD3/5. No.1775, RCK 920 was delivered in 1962 and operated in the Liverpool/Bootle and Carlisle localities until its withdrawal in 1981, when it was subsequently acquired for preservation. At some time in the years following, 1775’s pneumocyclic gearbox failed and was replaced by a synchromesh unit, but, when, in 2010, the vehicle passed into the hands of its current owners, the Ribble Vehicle Preservation Trust, the pneumocyclic box was repaired and refitted, bringing the bus back up to its original condition. In the picture above, 1775 is seen at the Wansford, Cambridgeshire, premises of the Nene Valley Railway on 8 July 2006 where I encountered it entirely unexpectedly.
A YouTube video of a ride on this bus may be found here:- at this link

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

22/08/17 – 06:32

Although rather plain I always thought these were quite attractive vehicles. The proportions seem to sit right and the livery suits the lines of the bodywork very well. Dignified is the way I would sum it up which is more than can be said for the horrors seen on most modern vehicles.

Philip Halstead

22/08/17 – 06:33

The change away to a synchro box was done when owned by Gerald Boden (who owned a B1+Class 40). From my memory he chose to do it as it would have been cheaper to repair the semi auto.

Roger Burdett

23/08/17 – 06:17

The almost only one-coloured livery hardly favours the body shape, Philip. I can see an improvement in Southdown livery. Oops, it must be the sort-of Queen Mary shape that reminded me of that!

Chris Hebbron

25/08/17 – 06:52

I wondered if Roger Cox or Roger Burdett can shed any light on the original gearboxes (or their flywheels) that were at first originally fitted to these Ribble PD3’s (and for that matter the fully fronted Bolton PD3’s).
When new, at idle there was a most musical tinny mechanical sound that soon disappeared once power was applied, I think they had a mechanical flywheel then. Bolton and later Ribble soon changed them to the fluid flywheel, which I understand gave a better service life – but no music! Hope someone in the ‘know’ might be able to offer enlightenment.

Mike Norris

25/08/17 – 09:36

I believe you are referring to the centrifugal clutch which I suspect was intended to be more efficient than a fluid flywheel. I only had very limited experience of it on a Bolton bus and simply remember an awful racket when the bus was in idle, not something I would describe as music at all.

David Beilby

25/08/17 – 09:37

Cannot shed any light except to speculate it was a body vibration due to harmonics.
Maybe someone from Ribble Group can enlighten if the switch back to a stick box has re-introduced the sound

Roger Burdett

25/08/17 – 09:38

I think that “jingling noise” was symptomatic of a centrifugal clutch, which was an attempt to provide a degree of automatic change, but without the drag and therefore fuel consumption penalty of a fluid flywheel.However I could be wrong.

James Freeman

26/08/17 – 07:13

I’ve noticed in several posts reference to ‘synchromesh’ gearboxes (as above) but am I right in thinking that they were only synchromesh on third and fourth gears? On every Southdown Leopard and Queen Mary I drove that was the format but may have differed elsewhere?

Nick Turner

26/08/17 – 07:14

This page seems to confirm that these Titans were initially fitted with centrifugal clutches:- www.flickr.com/photos/ Several operators tried out the centrifugal coupling to improve fuel consumption – the fluid flywheel could never attain 100% drive efficiency – but transmission snatch and maintenance problems meant that the fluid flywheel reigned supreme until the arrival on the psv scene of the multi stage torque converter gearbox.

Roger Cox

26/08/17 – 07:14

The Wigan PD3’s which were pneumo-cyclic also made this noise. Wigan went back to manual gearboxes for their later PD2’s so perhaps there was some dissatisfaction with the semi-auto transmission.

Philip Halstead

27/08/17 – 07:01

I seem to recall there was another stage of development when centrifugal shoes were included in the fluid flywheel so that it locked up at a suitable speed. I can’t recall technical details of the Ribble/MCW PD3 but know they seemed to perform very well up to the bitter end of TMO in Merseyside.
PS> The Captcha code for this post is PD3A!

Geoff Pullin

27/08/17 – 07:02

The PD2 was initially supplied with the GB63 four speed gearbox that had synchromesh on second, third and top, bottom gear being simply constant mesh. Unfortunately the second gear synchro set up gave some trouble in that engagement was often strongly baulked. Geoffrey Hilditch records examples of the resistance to engagement being so severe that gear levers were snapped off by the over enthusiastic pressures being applied by desperate drivers. Leyland then offered the GB83 box in which the second gear synchromesh was eliminated, and this continued to be available after the second gear synchro problems of the CB63 box were sorted out. All the PD2/PD3 buses I drove in Halifax had synchro on second gear.

Roger Cox

29/08/17 – 06:38

For those who like classic liveries like this, there’s news from Arriva. Their new universal bus livery is a simple Bradford blue, it seems: not clear to me how many extra bits or brandings can be added or where, but others may have more intimate knowledge. It does look if all the fussy skirts and linings may have gone, but what about the odd flash? After First, this is a relief!

Joe

22/07/18 – 06:20

To confirm what has been discussed about the PD3’s with the semi-auto g/box the Fleet nos starting with 1700 were all fitted with the Centrifugal Clutch and the fleet nos starting with 1800 were all fitted with the Fluid Flywheel.
The Centrifugal Clutch used to rattle when the engine was on tickover as the toggles and pins were worn, as when they were new they used to whine until the clutch engaged.

Norman Johnstone

Bradford Corporation – Leyland Titan – LAK 307G – 307

LAK 307G

Bradford Corporation
1969
Leyland PD3A/12
Alexander H41/29F

After its five year AEC Regent V phase (a subject that has generated polarised opinions and been discussed in depth and at length on OBP) Bradford Corporation seemed to cast all thoughts of standardisation to the winds by embarking upon a spending policy that encompassed front and rear engined vehicle types from Leyland and Daimler. Seen in April 1970, against the emerging stark, Stalinist skyline of 1960s Bradford, is No.307, LAK 307G, a Leyland PD3A/12 of April 1969 with Alexander H41/29F bodywork. Behind it is Leyland PDR1/3 Atlantean No.295, LAK 295G with MCW H43/31F body delivered a few months earlier in December 1968.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox

26/08/19 – 07:01

Great picture. When did Leyland discontinue the St Helen’s type front as all the very late PD3s I remember (Stockport and Ramsbottom) had the exposed radiator? I’ve actually started to like 60s architecture a bit in recent years BTW, it does have a stark kind of character, or maybe it’s just because the latest trends of shapeless grey and glass boxes are even worse!

David Pomfret

28/08/19 – 07:00

I don’t think Leyland ever discontinued the St Helens front on PD2/PD3 Titans. It was down to operator choice, and Leyland continued to offer exposed radiators as an option to the St Helens front until the end of all PD2/PD3 construction.

Michael Hampton

28/08/19 – 07:01

The St Helens front was not discontinued. Both it and the exposed radiator were offered as alternatives right to the end. If the dates on buslistsontheweb.co.uk are correct, the Bradford PD3s were delivered after the final Stockport ones, as were three Darwen PD2s, also with St Helens fronts.

Peter Williamson

28/08/19 – 07:02

I think both the fibreglass St Helens front and the exposed radiator format continued until the end of PD3 production in 1969 David. Some organisations preferred the exposed radiator arrangement, as it made engine access easier.

Mr Anon

North Western – Leyland Titan PD2/1 – CDB 237 – 237

North Western Leyland Titan PD 2/1

North Western Road Car
1949
Leyland Titan PD2/1
Leyland L27/26R

The full name was North Western Road Car Company Ltd and they were based at Stockport near Manchester. Another bus with a painted radiator did absolutely nothing for appearances the top deck windows are fairly deep for a lowbridge body though, the photo taken at Dean Street bus station, no it wasn’t, see comment below it was Lower Mosley Street bus station Manchester in 1965.

A full list of Titan codes can be seen here.

“The photo was taken at Lower Mosley Street Bus Station, not Dean St, which was predominantly used by long distance services and is now the site of the Bridgewater Hall concert hall. Of the few relatively local services which used this city centre terminus were the No 6 to Glossop via Ashton New Rd, The No 28 to Hayfield via Stockport and Marple and the No 27 to Buxton via Stockport and Disley. My guess is that the bus in the picture was on one of these routes.”

Stuart Kirkham

Just to clarify, Stuart’s comments beginning “which was predominantly used by long distance services…” all refer to Lower Mosley Street Bus Station.  There was no bus station in Dean Street.

Peter Williamson

Looks like this bus was on route 29, Manchester Lower Mosley Street to Macclesfield. Used to leave Lower Mosley Street at 10 past every hour and operated by either Manchester or Wilmslow depots. I used to drive this route many times in the 60s but usually with Dennis Lolines or Leyland Tiger Cubs (LDB 796 was a regular on this route from the Wilmslow depot).

Richard Higgs ex employee of NWRCC ltd 1960-1968

16/12/12 – 17:28

It’s on the 29 to Macclesfield. Must be a summer Saturday for such an old vehicle to be on the premier service. Service was double decked in December 1961 with route variations in Macclesfield to avoid the Gas Road Railway bridge. Always amazing to see on “old” double decker rather than a new Loline or Fleetline on the service. I did see K5Gs once or twice in 1962-3.
796 was originally a Wilmlsow car and used on their one “turn” on the 29. Previously 699 or 700 had been the favourites. Happy days.

Bob Bracegirdle

17/12/12 – 08:12

Not necessarily a Saturday. Could also have been a replacement for a failed vehicle from either Wilmslow or Macclesfield. By 1965 Fleetlines were the regular vehicles backed up by Lolines – which came back into their own on the route in Crosville colours – after the split of NWRCC

Phil Blinkhorn

17/12/12 – 09:41

The #29 was the one bus route in Manchester that left after all the Corporation buses had departed town at 23:00 hrs and before the all-nighters began at double fares at 23:15. The 23:10 #29 operated on normal fares and ran through as far as Wilmslow. Very handy if one had been to the pics on Oxford Street and then gone for a drink, or two.

Orla Nutting

Halifax Corporation – Leyland Titan PD2/37 – CJX 329C – 289

Halifax Corporation - Leyland Titan PD2/37 - CJX 329C - 289

Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee
1965
Leyland Titan PD2/37
Weymann H36/28F

Halifax buses with fleet numbers below 200 were owned by Halifax corporation, fleet numbers above 200 were owned by the Joint Omnibus Committee.
Photo taken 100 yards from where I used to live. Travelled miles on these Titans.

11/03/11 – 16:18

Nice shot made even better with the Yorkshire hills as a back drop.

Roger Broughton

11/03/11 – 18:58

Steep Lane terminus was perched on the apex of a hill with the reverse manoeuvre carried out by pulling up another hill to the left. There were magnificent views over the Calder Valley from the terminus. If you go there today you may well see preserved buses outside the premises of Yorkshire Heritage Bus Company down below adjacent to the railway line at Luddendenfoot. An unusual feature of Halifax buses pre Fleetline was that the double stainless top rails on the saloon seats had a timber infill with two long finger grips on each side. It’s not something I have come across anywhere else. One (or more?) small brackets were part of the stainless rails which located and secured the timber. Halifax used a rather pleasant ‘Autumn Leaves’ moquette for the lower saloon seating material. The short PD2/37 model was ideal for some of the narrow roads and sharp corners in the Calder and Ryburn Valleys.

Ian Wild

29/05/11 – 07:05

These vehicles did not have the wooden seat infill I think they were the last Weymann bodies as this factory went on strike and closed, some 10 chassis being diverted to Roe. A change away from the brown for double deck specification and removal of leather trim reduced the price and I think they had moquette downstairs and green plastic seats upstairs, I too travelled to school on these when new, they were much nicer than the 241-248 batch

Christopher

22/09/11 – 14:05

Regarding the wooden infill between the double top rails on the seats, I may be wrong here but I seem to recall seeing the same thing on the Bury Corporation PD3/6’s (with GEN registrations). If this was the case it would perhaps not be surprising since they were the last buses ordered by Richard LeFevre whilst GM at Bury, before he moved to Halifax and ordered similar, but forward entrance, PD3’s there. There is a Bury PD3 preserved, maybe someone involved with it could confirm or otherwise.

John Stringer

04/02/12 – 05:27

I seem to recall the earlier Bury Corporation Weymann bodied PD2’s also had the wooden seat infill which supports the theory that it was a LeFevre feature. These PD2’s also had the same destination display which Mr LeFevre took to Halifax. The Bury PD3/6’s had the Nottingham style ‘T’ shape destination display which infers they were actually delivered after Frank Thorpe had moved to Bury from Nottingham.

Philip Halstead

05/02/12 – 06:48

I said “I may be wrong here” – and I was! I met up with the preserved ex-Bury PD3 at the Nocturnal Heart of the Pennines Rally in Halifax last October, and it did not have the wooden seat infills, but I’m still pretty sure I did once see them on some Bury bus or other whilst on a bus club visit there. Do we not concern ourselves with the most obscure things ?

John Stringer

05/02/12 – 16:20

This last batch of Weymann bodied PD2/37 buses for Halifax was delayed by the strike at the Addlestone works. In January 1966, a contingent of staff from HPTD, including Geoff Hilditch himself, set off in Leopard 269 and collected the final few (nine, if I remember correctly) of this order, returning in convoy to Halifax. CJX 329C was one of these.

Roger Cox

05/02/12 – 16:29

This pic. captures very well how smart the Halifax livery could be and even enhance the looks of the Orion style body. If neglected and faded though this livery could look quite shabby.

Eric

06/02/12 – 07:37

It was the orange that faded badly in service, and matching the colour on replacement panels was virtually impossible. It seems that, on 8 August 1956, when Roderick MacKenzie was GM of Halifax, Daimler CVG6 MCCW H33/26R No 285 appeared wearing a reversed livery which had the orange at the top and the green on the lower panels. The negative reaction was so pronounced that the bus was quickly repainted, but the effect surely cannot have been that bad, being rather similar, I would think, to the old, attractive Chatham and District colour scheme. I suspect that good old Yorkshire traditionalism played a part in the antipathy towards the revised colour layout. I am a little surprised that GGH didn’t try this idea again. The maintenance savings would have made it worthwhile.

Roger Cox

06/02/12 – 07:38

Hope I don’t digress here. Whilst I don’t recall the Bury PD3/6’s having wooden infills I most certainly do recall that all the handrails on these buses were light green. Over time this coating wore off to expose the normal silvery metal. This was particularly so where the handrails were highly used by the doors etc. I agree that these buses were a Frank Thorpe style, not only Nottingham and Bury but Newport too. Similar style buses for all three undertakings had two track route number displays both with a small white rectangle to line up and give tidy displays. When viewed from outside the rectangle on the ‘tens’ display was on the right and that on the ‘units’ display was on the left – thus were both between the two displayed numbers resembling a decimal point of sorts so much so that a school chum of mine always referred to service 19 buses as ‘one point nine’

David Slater

06/02/12 – 13:37

Halifax buses generally looked magnificent when newly repainted, but as Eric says they could fade really badly.
By the time I undertook my PSV training in the Summer of 1973 the ex-East Yorkshire ‘Yellow Peril’ full-fronted PD2 Training Bus (403, MKH 81)) had been sold, and there was temporarily no ‘proper’ training vehicle. Instead two PD2 services buses were mostly used, both having expired CoF’s, and which were awaiting overhaul and recertification. These were 67 (DCP 67D) and 221 (MCP 221). Other spare PD2’s were used as well if they were available for a couple of hours or so. The first bus I ever drove was 67. New in 1966 it had reached the end of its initial 7-year CoF, had never been repainted during that time, and now looked really thoroughly down at heel and disgraceful.
Before Skircoat Garage was remodelled in the early 1980’s, there were two old bus side panels attached to the top of one of the rear outside walls just below roof level. They were painted in bands of different shades of green and orange, apparently as a long term trial of various different paint manufacturers’ products to assess their different weathering characteristics. How long they had been up there I never found out.
During the early days of WYPTE, those buses still in the old HPT livery mostly looked absolutely awful – not only very faded paintwork, and in umpteen different shades, but often with scrapes and dents that would never have been tolerated in HPT days. Some even had new panels still in unpainted aluminium, or in a reddish-brown primer, and were an absolute embarrassment to be seen driving, to be honest.
When I was a young child back in the late ‘fifties though, I can remember that the livery used to fade even worse, turning into almost matt pastel shades – the orange becoming almost pale yellow, the green a wishy washy dirty pale shade, and the cream more like off-white. This was probably due to the paint technology of the period and heavy industrial pollution, rather than neglect. Some of the worst were the Joint Committee’s ACP-registered Regent III’s, which probably never received the remedial strengthening work that some of the others had, and which were the first to be sold off in 1958/59.
I recall waking one morning in 1958 to find several of these and other types lined up along the road in front of our house, all with their coats of arms and fleet numbers painted out. Apparently they had been sold to a dealer in London (this would be A.M.C.C) and their drivers were partaking of a hearty breakfast in the nearby transport cafe before setting off on the long journey south. Eventually I watched them all fire up and depart in convoy, and felt really sad to see this shabby, faded and dejected collection vanish round the corner and out of sight.

John Stringer

07/03/12 – 08:43

It is correct to say that Bury had wooden fillets on some batches of its fleet this was a Richard LeFevre design which came about after a female passenger broke her wrist when she fell forward whilst trying to steady herself against the seat top after the bus pulled up sharp. The idea transferred to Halifax when Mr LeFevre became GM along with the Bury destination box too!

Richard McAllister

08/03/12 – 07:05

It’s worth noting that the current accessibility regulations for tramcars (and possibly other modes as well) recognise this issue and prohibit small apertures such as that between the top handrail and the seat frame, for this very reason. Bury and Halifax were clearly quite advanced!

David Beilby

Vehicle reminder shot for this posting

04/04/12 – 16:29

3126

I thought I had a picture somewhere showing the wooden infills between the top seat rails. Here is what was Halifax Corporation 73, by this time WYPTE 3073, near Mount Tabor on 17th January 1976. Note this batch came after the JOC ones such as 289 and both Weymann-bodied batches DID have these wooden fillers, I’ve checked with my photographs. However, the Roe-bodied ones did not.

David Beilby

05/04/12 – 18:21

Here is a link to another photo of the interior of a Halifax Leyland showing the wooden seat infills.  //www.flickr.com/  
On this site there are some really fascinating and atmospheric photo’s of Halifax and WYPTE Calderdale buses taken in service by former driver John Thompson in the 1970’s.

John Stringer

20/07/15 – 06:54

Bit late I know but the wooden I fills in the seat back rails were used on Burys Weymann PD2s and the two AECs, numbered 176-186. The earlier Weymann PD2s in the 151-175 number series may also have had them, but they were pretty much on the way out by the time I was old enough to identify the different types so I can’t say for certain.

David Pomfret

Yorkshire Woollen District – Leyland Titan – HD 8553 – 699

Yorkshire Woollen District - Leyland Titan PD2 - HD 8553 - 699

Yorkshire Woollen District Transport
1963
Leyland Titan PD2
Roe H63R

Now this gets interesting according to my book this is a 1950 Leyland Titan PD2/3 with a Roe H56R body. Well it is defiantly not a rear entrance that’s plain to see and the registration of just two letters I think came well before 1950. I think its time to get Googleing
Here is a result found on the SCT ’61 website the link takes you to a better photo of the same bus, the info found does make sense to me it is as follows.
“Yorkshire Woollen rebuilt a number of Leyland Tiger PS single deckers as double deck vehicles in the 1950s and 1960s. One such is HD8553, a PS2/5 given a Roe front entrance body in 1962 and numbered 699 – later renumbered 502 by YWD.
This bus and its brethren survived long enough to receive NBC livery.”

I think your history is wrong.
A large number of PS1s were rebodied. I saw one of the first which was painted “Poppy Red” in Frost Hill depot parked in the middle of the depot It looked terrible then. The new bodies were MCW Orion.
They weighed less after re-bodying than when original.
They were very noisy and cold as the new bodies were single skinned.
The photograph is one of a small batch of PS2s which were rebuilt much later. the chassis were rebuilt by YWD with new chassis sides, they originally had a bolt on chassis extension as the rules changed when they were originally built. I think there were only 8 rebuilt. A like number were sold to Yorkshire Traction for rebuilding the only difference was that the Yorkshire Traction rebuilds were reregistered. I never found out why.

E. Malone

I will investigate this further find my own information and get back, check with the ‘Latest Comments’ page for any update.
Here are the details of a batch of six Leyland Tiger PS2/5 chassis that were re-bodied by Roe to H35/28F in 1963 Reg no HD 8551-4 and HD 8562-3 they went into service with fleet nos 697-700 and 708-9 respectively.
The above photograph is one of this batch and this information backs up the original article.
An extra piece of information I found is that the original Tigers were probable bodied by Willowbrook with a B38F body and were first built in 1950.
The PS1 chassis you mention were a batch of 24 originally built in 1948 the registrations are a bit haphazard but are late HD 7800s and very early 7900s the fleet nos are a bit the same but they all fall between 562-631. These were re-bodied by Metro-Cammell with H56R ‘Orion’ bodies in 1954-5.

Peter

Richard Malone is wrong about the colour. Poppy red only came in with NBC.  The closest to the original colour was Post Office red. I know this from a YWD Fleetline I owned at one time.
There were 75 Brush bodied Leyland Tigers PS1s, fleet numbers 558-632 registration HD7841-7915. In 1954 12 of these were rebodied as double deckers with fleet numbers (562/75/7/97/8/9/603/11/3/4/6/20) with a weight of 6.8.1 tons. A further 12 were rebodied in 1955 as fleet numbers (570/4/83/7/8/96/618/24/7/8/30/1) with a weight of 6.7.0 tons. It is interesting to note that they weighed 6.9.1 tons as Tiger single deckers.
I own the only survivor of the original batch of Brush bodied Tiger PS1s fleet no 622 registration HD 7905 which can be seen here.
The Willowbrook/PS2s, 697-725, HD8551-79 (and OPD2s, 728-733, HD8710-5) were built in 1949. They were originally 27’6″ long with B32F bodies these were then lengthened to 30′ B38F by Willowbrook between June 1954 and June 1955. Six were rebodied by Roe as H63F (697-700/8/9) for YWD a further nine went to YTC (701/4/6/7/10/1/2/4/6) in 1962, rebodied by Northern Counties as front entrance double deckers. (One of these still exists.)

Gordon Brooke

The subject of re registrations of bus rebuilds is an interesting one. I was always curious about the batch of Leyland PS2s that were rebodied as double deckers by both Yorkshire Traction and Yorkshire Woollen. The Y W D ones kept their old 2 letter HD marks yet the YTC ones were allocated new YHE marks of the time. Another example of these double standards concerns County Motors of Lepton owned by YTC, YWD and West Riding. In 1955 they had two elderly single deckers rebodied as double deckers. They wanted to give them new registrations but Huddersfield CBC would not allow this so they were transferred to Barnsley where they were given new marks of the time.

Philip Carlton

Difficult to tell from the photo if the width of this vehicle, was a PS2/5 7ft 6in or 8ft wide? The original batch of re-bodies, from PS1 chassis were certainly 7ft 6in Orions. When Birch Bros had some PD1’s re-bodied with Orions by MCW a year or so later, they were virtually identical even down to the destination display. Maybe the same drawings were used!

Chris Barker

01/01/14 – 09:14

I drove these buses in 1965 at this time I lived in Heckmondwyke and worked at Becklane Depot I remember the P duties they worked Mirfield Bradford 65 service they seemed to be sluggish pullers..

Jack

03/01/14 – 10:00

I would like to comment on the “Hales Cake” vehicle shown in Colin Shears yard. It is a Leyland TS7 and was East Midland Motor Services No10 BAL 610. In the 1950s I worked at EMMS Chesterfield workshops at this time after I left school and remember this vehicle well it was one of eighteen rebodied by Willowbrook in 1948 it looked far better in EMMS livery of biscuit cream and brown picture shown in Mikes afterlifes.

Jack

26/10/16 – 06:41

I remember the forward entrance versions of these rebodies on B and C services from Ossett to Fir Cottage in YWD red and cream and then NBC poppy red not bad for a bus built as a single decker in the late 1940s and still in service in the 1970s we cannot say that today, by the way I liked them as much as AEC Regent Vs.

David Parkin

27/10/16 – 08:17

To answer Chris Barker’s question from way back, the PS2/5 was 8 feet wide.

Peter Williamson

28/10/16 – 07:37

Peter W, thanks for your answer, I’m certain that these vehicles reverted to their original length of 27ft 6ins. upon rebuilding as double deckers, the seating capacity of 63 seems to support this. However, when they ran as single deckers, presumably they had drop frame extensions to enable the provision of luggage boots and then they were extended to 30ft length, still with drop frame rears, so was the chassis itself extended? When they became double deckers, a drop frame extension would have been of no use on a front entrance d/d but if it was simply removed, the rear overhang would have needed supporting somehow, I imagine new chassis frames were the only answer. Perhaps it might have been easier to rebody them as 30ft double deckers!

Chris Barker

31/03/17 – 15:37

The registration of just two letters I think came well before 1950.
Dewsbury didn’t reach HD 9999 until November 1953 – while it took until April 1960 for Bootle to reach EM 9999 and August 1960 for Rutland to reach FP 9999.
And nine Scottish counties didn’t reach 9999 with two letters before the year suffix system was introduced in 1964/5 – Buteshire famously only getting as far as SJ 2860.

Des Elmes

06/09/17 – 06:44

Chris Barker, I think you will find that NONE of the PS1 or 2’s owned by YWD had luggage boots. The emergency door was in the middle at the back on both those models.

Ron Lake

Blackpool Corporation – Leyland Titan PD2/27 – PFR 334 – 334


Photograph by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Blackpool Corporation
1959
Leyland Titan PD2/27
Metro Cammell Weymann FH35/28R

Blackpool were really into the full frontal look I think it was to make them look like the trams that Blackpool is famous for. Before these normal looking full frontal Titans they had other versions which they classed as ‘streamlined’. The bodies were built by Burlingham a local body builder, I think they were bought out by the better known company called Duple.
There is a photo of a ‘streamlined’ Blackpool Leyland Titan here.

A full list of Titan codes can be seen here.

This photo is clearly of 334 (PFR 334), not 344. Good pic, though. 334 was one of a batch of 30 numbered 331-350. The 1960 abc British Bus Fleets No.6 (Lancashire), shows the seating as 61, reduced to 59 in the summer (for increased luggage space?). Burlingham were based in Blackpool and after the Duple takeover, the factory was known as Duple (Northern).

A Woods

Thanks for that, new glasses required I think, I have altered the heading so it is now correct.

Does your 1960 abc book have the above vehicle as a PD2/27 as my 1965 version because the website ‘Bus Lists on the Web’ has it has a PD2/40?

The 1965 abc British Bus Fleets No.6 lists a batch of 50 as the following:-
301 – 310 PD2/21
311 – 350 PD2/27

The ‘Bus Lists on the Web’ site has the same batch of 50 as the following:-
301 – 310 PD2/21
311 – 330 PD2/27
331 – 350 PD2/40

Can anyone solve this anomaly.

Peter

There is certainly plenty of odd information about these buses. I quote from two sources:
In “Blackpool’s Buses”, by David Dougill, the fleet list shows 301-305 as PD2/21 with Burlingham bodies, while 306-310 had MCW bodies. 311-350 were PD2/27 with MCW bodies. “Trams and Buses Around Blackpool” by the well-know duo Steve Palmer and Brian Turner gives the same detail. The only difference between 311-330 and 331-350 is that the earlier numbers were delivered in 1958 and the later ones arrived in 1959.

Pete Davies

The PD2/40 was an exposed radiator variant of the breed I would suggest that Blackpool had no exposed radiator buses delivered post war. Early ones had full font bodies to a Blackpool design by Burlingham while later examples both fully fronted and half cab had variations on the Leyland Titan tin front Some of Blackpools PD3s had an asymmetrical full front due to the revised “St Helens front” of concealed radiator PD3s

Chris Hough

Chris, I’m no Blackpool expert but do I recall in the murky recesses of the mind that sometimes “exposed” radiators with smaller blocks were provided for certain full-front applications? Does that clarify – or muddy – the waters?

David Oldfield

This bus survived longer than most of its classmates as, along with 337, it was converted for use a Permanent Way staff bus in which guise they were numbered 434/7 (346 also worked for the Electrical Services department).
From my time at Blackpool I have a 1978 fleet list which shows these as PD2/27s which entered service on 25th and 26th March 1959 respectively.

David Beilby

Blackpool 334 was a PD2/27 as David Beilby confirms. To answer David Oldfield, Leyland supplied the ‘exposed radiator’ version of the Titan for full front designs where the front grille was part of the body design rather than being one of Leyland’s standard fronts. Examples are Ribble’s PD3’s with Burlingham and MCW bodies and the Southdown ‘Queen Mary’ Northern Counties bodied PD3’s. They were PD3/4 and PD3/5’s. As Blackpool used both the standard Leyland BMMO and St Helens style bonnets in their full fronts these Titans were the concealed front chassis types, PD2/21,PD2/27,PD3/1 and finally PD3A/1. The latter had the asymmetrical front windows with the nearside windscreen ‘drooping’ down to follow the shape of the St Helens style bonnet. This arrangement was also used on PD3A/2’s operated by Bolton Corporation with both East Lancs and MCW forward entrance bodies.

Philip Halstead

02/02/11 – 10:00

I was the last driver of PFR 339, one of the buses mentioned in the above article. It was being used as a play bus for the Wisbech area and survived in a working state until 1982. It used to move from one school to another in this area to provide a base for play schools in village where none existed. Gradually these village were able to form their own playgroups in accommodation of their own so PFR 339 worked at achieving it’s own demise. Eventually in 1982 it stayed in one school for a few years as a permanent base, but was eventually replaced by a more suitable form of accommodation. Clement Freud and his wife Jill were instrumental in setting it up in the first place.

Peter Thatcher

04/11/18 – 07:21

When I were a nipper as the saying goes me, my sister took a day trip to Blackpool. We went by Ribble X61, a DP Leyland Leopard out and a White Lady Atlantean (RRN reg) back to Liverpool.
We had a ride on a Balloon tram (two 1s, two 6d). We kept the ticket for years,it was a TIM issue. From the tram ticket we got the date 8th August, 1968.
Note the date. I spotted a BRAND NEW gleaming Leyland Titan PD3A, which could only have been LFR 538/9/40G when a week old. Sadly they were Blackpool’s last such buses but they gave good service unlike many mid-late 1960s back loader of which only the Routemaster had a long life
In my opinion the St Helens bonnet didn’t suit a full front, which Blackpool Corporation recognised by specifying half cabs for 381-399 and 500-540. The 1950s Leyland Titans would have looked better with a Ribble style grille, but I guess BCT wanted to be different! .

Paul Mason