Priory Coaches of North Shields 1966 Bedford VAL 14 Plaxton C52F
George Chapman established Priory Coaches of North Shields in 1929. North Shields is located in what was the County Borough of Tynemouth, and the name and company logo relate to Tynemouth Priory, which is an ancient monument situated within the grounds of Tynemouth Castle. By the early 50’s the fleet numbered in excess of 40 vehicles, to the best of my knowledge, they never ran any stage carriage services, although they did have a regular twice-weekly service to two local outlying hospitals in Morpeth and Prudhoe. For as long as I can remember, the fleet consisted entirely of Bedfords of all shapes and sizes, with either Duple or Plaxton bodies. In common with most post war coach operators, at one time much of the fleet was made up of Bedford OB’s. As far as I know, they only ever had one VAL 14, I could be wrong, but I don’t think it was around for very long. The Priory livery was two shades of green and cream with gold lettering, and as far as I can remember the seats were upholstered in a rich dark red moquette material, and very smart they looked. The company has changed hands, but I’m pleased to say they are still on the go, although the fleet is nowhere near the same size as it was. It now numbers around 10 vehicles, the livery has also changed, and is now white with two shades of blue. Bedfords no longer being available, the bulk of the fleet is now mainly Volvo.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye
17/04/14 – 10:55
These were good looking and, for their time, well built coaches. If anything, they were a little more elegant than the Panoramas, with the thick pillar aft of the first bay. The VAL14 (Leyland engine) was better liked than the later and more powerful VAL70 (Bedford engine).
David Oldfield
17/04/14 – 18:24
The 1967 edition of ‘The Little Red Book’, information for which would have been supplied in 1966, stated, that Priory Motor Coach Co. Ltd., had a rolling stock of 12 coaches. 12 Bedford Chassis, and bodies by Duple 6, Plaxton 5, and Yeates 1.
Stephen Howarth
18/04/14 – 09:30
Purely a personal view of course, but I always found the Bedford VAL to be a delightful and fascinating vehicle to ride in and to drive. For whatever engineering reasons – six small wheels/leaf springing etc – its excellent degree of riding comfort seems often to be overlooked by those attaching great importance to its moderate but very adequate performance. I’ve even done journeys of well over 200 miles in VALs, riding and driving, in perfect contentment. While its gladly acknowledged that it can’t match the speed and power of the Leopard/Reliance/Volvo “big boys” it was nevertheless a very commendable design, and appealing too in what might by some be classed as its “cheeky” involvement in stage carriage work here and there. I loved the VALs and remember their plucky character very fondly, and when all’s said and done they came from a very honest “no frills” stable.
Chris Youhill
18/04/14 – 18:20
I have a photo of BFT 942D in cream and blue livery with “Leisureline” in the destination blind in the front bumper. Does anyone know where this operator was based?
Dave Farrier
10/05/15 – 07:12
The Bedford VAL was produced in Underfloor Engine form for Australia in the early 1970s. Why not for the UK market? Seems odd as the United Kingdom was their main stronghold!
Stemax1960
21/05/15 – 06:39
Dave Farrier, Information re coach reg. BFT 942D.your listing of (18/04/14) I have a note from another stating Leisureline to be a Blackpool based company. Note States same livery, information is by son of the owner. The era being around 1970’s.
Alan Coulson
26/02/16 – 14:22
Regarding underfloor engined VAL’s in Australia. As both a driver and mechanic which worked on them in Australia, until they were finally retired from service. The VAL’s you mentioned were actually bodied in Australia in 1974 after the YRQ had come out and after the VAL had actually ceased production. As there were chassis left over we continued to be able to buy them after cease of build in the UK. Until supplies of the new chassis became available, in many cases even the latter BLP had the front engine moved back as to meet customers demands. Keeping in mind that Australian design rules never specified ground clearance heights like the UK did. The underfloor engine option was one you used to pay extra for, at the time $250.00 for and the body builder would move the engine back to behind just the front axle. Not as far back as in the factory build YRQ, YLQ. I myself even moved and engine back in one of my BLP school buses when the engine failed. Bit of a big job.
Guy
18/02/20 – 07:27
Priory went into liquidation at the end of 2019. Their website is down and some links redirect to Rothbury Travel Group
Alan Walker
19/02/20 – 06:18
Priory were latterly owned by the same owners as Rothbury Travel. They also own various other coach operators in the North East and other areas of the country.
Tim Presley
20/02/20 – 06:20
I was brought up in Whitley Bay in the fifties. During the summer holidays, my parents would book day trips either with Wakefield’s, a subsidiary of Northern, or with Priory Motors. Although I was too young to be able to identify the coaches provided, it is obvious looking back that the type most commonly used was the Bedford SB. The last trip that I made with Priory was some years later when I went on a day tour to Buttertubs Pass. For some reason, the coach that should have been provided was not available, and instead of one large coach, we got two small ones. I travelled in the second, A Plaxton Coach-bodied Bedford J2 mini, not perhaps the ideal vehicle for a day tour, and at the opposite end of the scale from the Bedford VAL, nevertheless, I found it an interesting experience.
John Gibson
20/02/20 – 15:34
Another Priory Coaches VAL FJA 990D ended its days derelict in Myalls of Bassingbourn yard. www.flickr.com/photos/
John Wakefield
05/03/20 – 06:46
John, priory Coaches (North Shields) sadly ceased trading in December 2019. They only ever had one Bedford VAL, that’s the one pictured above, there was however another company based in Coalville, who traded under the name of Priory Coaches UK Ltd & Rigleys Hire Ltd. As far as I know, they have also ceased trading.
Ronnie Hoye
06/03/20 – 06:29
FJA 990D was with Priory Coaches, Christchurch. I think there were quite a few Priory Coaches, there was another one in Royal Leamington Spa at 38 High Street
The coach fleets of Northern General Transport and its subsidiaries was pretty much as you would expect from a BET company, usually an AEC, Guy or Leyland chassis, and a mixture of high quality bodies from several different Coachbuilders, so the arrival of these C41F Paxton Embassy II Bedford SB’s in 1963, came as somewhat of a surprise. I’m not suggesting that the SB was a bad vehicle, far from it, the gave many years of loyal service to a multitude of operators, but Bedford’s never played a significant role in the make up of BET group fleets, any that were around had either been bought for a specific purpose or had come in through the back door as the result of a takeover, so your guess is as good as mine as to why two of them came to be at Percy Main? As well as the Wakefields pair, HFT 264/5 – 264/5; I believe Sunderland District also had a some, and I presume all of them would have been either 8’s or 13’s with the Leyland engine, but I’m not aware of any others in the NGT set up. Life expectancy of NGT single deck and D/P vehicles was around 15 years, some of the touring coaches were withdrawn after about 10 years, but many were used for the longer express routes and lasted as long as their service cousins. This wasn’t the case with these Bedford’s. I started at Percy Main in 1967, and if memory serves, they were withdrawn at the end of the 1968 season. As far as ‘coaches’ were concerned, they were the last to carry the Wakefield’s name as all subsequent vehicles were D/P’s, and the name became defunct in 1970. As a footnote, the photo was taken outside The Gibraltar Rock Pub, located at Tynemouth terminus of what was at the time the service 11 to Newcastle, the location is only about 5 miles from Percy Main depot, and to me this photo looks like a publicity shot and the passengers are probably Percy Main office staff.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye
15/05/13 – 09:22
Nice view, Ronnie. Thanks for posting. I know of other operators who used office staff in their publicity photos, so your theory in this case could well be correct.
Pete Davies
15/05/13 – 09:23
Yes, Ronnie – a strange choice of coach for a BET company. However, if they did want some lightweights then there was not much choice at the time, other than Ford Traders. I wonder if they were on lease hire, hence their short life with Wakefields? This scene definitely looks staged. It was a common practice to enrol office staff to act as passengers for publicity shots. I remember one such occasion with Wallace Arnold when we were supposed to be tourists on a Swiss holiday (in the depths of a suburban Leeds country lane). I never saw the resulting pictures. Nobody minded, of course, as it got us out of the office for an hour or two. Mind you, they couldn’t do this today as HSE would object to those two protuberances which could have someone’s eye out! (Sorry, but this was the age of The Likely Lads and Carry On films!)
Paul Haywood
15/05/13 – 10:57
Bedford? Very strange. Why? Because all the quality mainstream operators at that time tended towards the Ford 510E for their minority lightweight purchases – keeping them no longer than three years, often for only one season. [SUT, Yelloway, Wally Arnold, Hebble, Woollen – all ran Fords rather than SBs. SUT only ran SBs from operators who they had taken over.] OK; NGT ran non mainstream vehicles, including Guy Arab LUFs – but Wakefield ran Reliances, instead.
David Oldfield
17/05/13 – 07:17
“Oh, what happened to you? Whatever happened to me?” Well, Rodney Bewes – his voice at least – was the door announcer for the lifts in the last place I worked!
Pete Davies
18/05/13 – 08:15
Notice anything about “Bob’s” accent, Pete? Yorkshire, if not all that broad – Rodney Bewes is from Bingley. I think its called “auto-suggestion”: you’re told the sitcom is about two “likely-lads” from Tyneside – as and long as one of them has a Geordie accent then you simply don’t hear the Yorkshire tones of his partner. The Northern Fleetline/Atlantean-Alexanders (which would it have been?) in the opening titles have gone, are the Scotswood Road flats still standing? The Dunston Rocket, of Tudor Crisps fame (also now gone), has gone. And I’m not even going to mention Manor steps, aerial ropeways, and multi-storey car-parks from a certain cult gangster film. From the mid to late 60s there seemed to be more of an interest in lightweight coaches from certain BET and THC operators. Perhaps this reflected a desire to be able to compete more effectively against independents for private hire business as stage-carriage work declined.
Philip Rushworth
18/05/13 – 16:57
David O – Yelloway was not an operator that ran Fords rather than SBs, the opposite was the case. They bought Fords only in 1961, 3 in total, including subsidiary fleets. They bought SBs each year from 1960 to 1965, excluding 1961, a total of 16.
David Williamson
19/05/13 – 07:18
But my point was that they ran Fords, not that they didn’t run Bedfords…..
David Oldfield
21/05/13 – 14:48
There has recently been some discussion on the SCT61 website about a photo of Wakefield’s Motors Beadle-bodied AEC/Beadle rebuilds 191 and 192 (FT 7791/2). The blind on 192 shows ‘PRIVATE’ with ‘RIPON LEYBURN AND RICHMOND’ in smaller capitals underneath. There has been much speculation as to what this destination was intended for and the North-East based followers of that site are mystified. Eric Bawden has suggested that it might have been used for forces’ leave services but I have no recollection of Wakefield’s doing such work and so I’m not convinced. I wondered if anyone – obviously, I’m particularly thinking of Ronnie Hoye as the Tynemouth/Wakefield’s expert – would know why this particular destination appeared on a Wakefield’s blind. The photograph was taken in 1960 in Whitby so it doesn’t offer any clues.
Alan Hall
22/05/13 – 07:24
Can’t say for certain, Alan. I know a fair bit about T&W but I’m by no means an expert, but my opinion would be that Wakefields coaches all had the longer Northern express route destinations on their blinds, and vehicles with Percy Main crews could often be found being used as duplicates on some of the routes. If memory serves, the Newcastle Liverpool route ran through Ripon, Harrogate and Leeds, but I cant remember any that went via Richmond or Leyburn.
Ronnie Hoye
23/05/13 – 07:54
I’ve been talking to a friend who was at Percy Main when I was, and he too is at a loss as to why Leyburn and Richmond should be on the destination blind. Wakefields had two batches of AEC Beadles, FT 7275/80 – 175/80 and FT 7791/2 – 191/2; 175/80 were FC35F and classified as coaches, whereas 191/2 were FC39F D/P’s, they also had slightly different fronts, the coaches had more bright trim under the windscreen and no number section on the destination layout. The coach blinds carried all Northern express route destinations, but the D/P’s had a shortened version of the stage carriage blind with the express section added.
Ronnie Hoye
27/05/13 – 06:50
Thanks, Ronnie: I appreciate your trouble but it seems that Richmond and Leyburn are mysteries that have us all stumped. Sadly, we’ll probably never know now. I’ve dug out an old timetable from that era (1959, as it happens) which shows the hospital services which were licensed to Northern and Wakefield’s (no other group members), but nothing from as far away as Richmond or Leyburn features. As a matter of interest, the ones from the North Tyneside area (presumably the ones which were operated by Wakefield’s) were North Shields to Prudhoe Hall Colony – what a dreadful name, Wallsend to St George’s Hospital at Morpeth and North Shields to Earl’s House Hospital near Durham. I think that’s my earliest Northern Group timetable but I have others from the ’60s which are stored at my mother’s house. I’ll look them out next time I’m there on the off chance that they may lead us to the solution.
Alan Hall
04/06/13 – 06:49
Ronnie, I’ve now checked the 1960, 1961 and 1962 timetables and there isn’t anything in any of those to indicate why Richmond and Leyburn might have been on Wakefield’s blinds. I wonder if it was simply wishful thinking. You’ll remember that Newcastle’s trolleybus blinds included several places South of the Tyne, such as Dunston, Gateshead and Low Fell, in the hope/expectation that the wires would eventually cross the river as the tram wires had. I suspect that this may have been a similar example of ‘ready in case ever needed’.
Alan Hall
05/06/13 – 10:58
Alan, I have no evidence to back up this theory, but the only thing I can think of is perhaps Northern applied for an additional alternative route for the Leeds service, but this was United territory, and no doubt they would have objected strongly unless it was going to be a shared service.
Ronnie Hoye
30/12/13 – 07:13
Just discovered your site today while searching for pics of the type of coach I drove during my service at R.A.F College Cranwell. Exactly what I was looking for, in fact as my coach was 27AC58. My home town was Scarborough which was very lucky for me as I was given the job of taking the college band to Scarborough for their annual fortnight visit.
Robert Robinson
10/04/15 – 07:27
I have a couple of photos of Wakefields vehicles showing Scarborough as a destination. That would not be a normal destination for a Northern Group Express coach unless it was the practice to hire them to United on Summer Saturdays for their Newcastle-Scarborough service. However, Scarborough was a destination for day tours. On the assumption that Ripon, Leyburn and Richmond was also a day tour, I have visited North Shields library to look for Wakefields Adverts for their tours in the local newspaper, and can confirm that this was indeed a Wakefields day tour.
John Gibson
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
08/03/16 – 05:26
I knew I wasn’t imagining this, SDO had two identical vehicles, 3730 & 3731 UP – 330/1, and Northern had eight Bedford’s with C41F Harrington bodies, PCN 1/8 – 2601/8. I dont know about the rest, but the two for Wakefields were sold on after three years, and went to Hylton Castle Coaches of Sunderland
Here we have another example of what a coat of paint can do to a vehicle’s appearance. In the first view, 103 GAA is in the Southsea rally on 10 June 1990, in the livery of Fishwick, Darlington. She is a Bedford SB5 with Plaxton C41F body from 1963. The second view shows her, back in her original markings (Princess Coaches of West End, Southampton) and she is in Winchester for the King Alfred running day on 27 April 2003.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
04/09/16 – 13:40
No doubt about it, the lower image is much better.
David Wragg
05/09/16 – 06:30
Yes, even before we get down to the wheel trims! Thanks, David.
Pete Davies
05/09/16 – 06:31
Sadly 103 GAA is not in that condition now, it passed from preservation with Brian Guilmant of Southampton in 2004 to Collins of Dartford who left it neglected in a yard at Flexford until recently bought back by Ian Barfoot a descendant of the original owner who I understand plans to restore the coach.
John Wakefield
05/09/16 – 08:04
Thanks, John. Flexford is, I believe, the compound used by the King Alfred preservation group, between Sourhampton and Romsey – unless there’s another one hiding in some obscure part of the map! Ian lives, or used to live, in the Bitterne area of Southampton. His mother asked me to provide a shelter at the family’s local bus stop.
Pete Davies
05/09/16 – 14:55
Indeed Pete, its the North Hills Saw Mills Yard actually listed at Baddesley near Chandlers Ford. Still a lot of old buses in there, along with caravans & other vehicles. I don’t think FoKAB use it much these days
John Wakefield
06/09/16 – 06:24
Two more long term residents at Flexford.
HDL 285 a 1952 ex Southern Vectis Bristol LL5G ECW B39R is another bus that has been in the Flexford yard for a number of years with nothing being done to it other than the occasional new tarpaulin, PSVC list owner as Porter, Chandlers Ford. Crazy that someone should buy a bus, pay rent to store it, & leave it to rot. My picture shows it next to 103 GAA in January 2011, but I have seen a more recent picture of it still there in June this year.
Also still languishing in the yard is very derelict 692 AEH an AEC Reliance Weymann B44F new to Potteries 1957 also seen in Jan 2011. Owner is listed as Paynton of Totton. There was an attempt to rescue this a few years back by someone in the Potteries area, apparently it came to nothing.
John Wakefield
06/09/16 – 08:33
Indeed, John. All we need to do is look at the various preservation sites up and down the country – railway centres as well as bus centres – and note how many of them are able to keep all the items under cover. The percentage is quite small. Until that cover – I don’t mean a tarpaulin! – is in place, the exhibit just rots. Yes, it may be a wonderful opportunity for the preservation group to acquire the only example of its type ever produced – but shouldn’t the covered accommodation be there prior to its arrival on site, rather than being the subject of an appeal? If the money is raised, what is the guarantee the local authority will allow planning permission for the new building?
Pete Davies
29/09/19 – 07:13
692 AEH an AEC Reliance Weymann B44F, has been rescued the Potteries Omnibus Perseveration Society if you take a look at their twitter page.
Mr Anon
15/10/19 – 05:43
103 GAA has apparently now (11/19) been sold by the Barfoot family to someone in the Taunton area for preservation.
A rare sight today is this Bedford OB. Rare because it carries a Plaxton body rather than than the ubiquitous Duple Vista which survives in greater numbers. Chassis number 134198, body number 579 was new to C W Blankley (Gem Luxury Coaches) Colsterworth in June 1950. It is now owned by Mr Ken Edwards of Llanon in Cardiganshire and who shows it with pride at many events near and far every year. This view sees it in August 2016 at an event organised in honour of the memory of Stan & Wyndham Rees, formerly of Midway Motors, Crymych. Appropriately this well-attended event was held in fields directly opposite Midway’s depot in Pembrokeshire.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Les Dickinson
25/08/16 – 06:12
Now this is a real beauty and an interesting one because the door is positioned further forward than on the contemporary Duple Vista. Judging by the small window ahead of the door, it would appear that this coach didn’t have a front seat beside the driver. I may be in a minority but I’d say this Plaxton body beats the Duple version on looks and style but without that much coveted front seat, I’m afraid several points must be deducted!
Chris Barker
26/08/16 – 05:11
I’m sure someone will know the actual dimensions but when seen alongside the Duple version, Plaxton’s offering was noticeably taller than the other. My personal opinion of the design is that the ‘fin’ shaped moulding towards the front spoils what is otherwise a decent design.
Les Dickinson
26/08/16 – 05:13
Sorry, Chris B – rare as it is, I am glad the Duple version was the most common. Somehow the Plaxton version just seems wrong. The deep windscreens give it a goggle-eyed appearance and the heavy streamlining makes the rear end look to be sagging. No doubt to save money, Plaxton seemed to have used a full-front, forward-control body design and adapted it to a normal control chassis. Duple, on the other hand, designed the Vista from scratch, with all the right proportions. Mind you, if this turned up to offer me a ride, I’d jump on board!
Paul Haywood
26/08/16 – 14:15
I agree with Paul, the Plaxton design was not as attractive as the more popular Duple Vista, and did not have the front seat beside the driver. I am not sure how many Plaxton bonneted ones were built and they went over to the even more ugly full front version which retained the original radiator grille & headlamps, none of these according to my records have survived.
Only one other bonneted one EAJ 679 preserved with Lockett of Henfield ironically in almost same colour scheme to ETL 221 above owned by Ken Edwards of Llanon
John Wakefield
27/08/16 – 05:35
Despite being a huge fan of older Duple body designs, including the Vista, I have to help balance this thread by saying that I think the Plaxton K3 body looked really well on the OB, even preferring it (only just) to the Vista – a bit less dumpy and with neater windows, though the Vista may have looked slightly better from the back (not appreciable on these photos). It’s of course all in the eye of the beholder, as they say.
John Stringer
27/08/16 – 15:31
A photo of the rear of EAJ679 can be found at this link: //tinyurl.com/zc5fcmn Although it could be argued that the Vista rear with twin windows and other aspects like fake bumper is a little more fussy, I prefer it to the Plaxton, which is rather bland, some might argue plain. However, liveries can make a real difference to a PSV’s looks, as we all know.
Chris Hebbron
27/08/16 – 15:32
Duple
Plaxton
Photos of Duple Vista & Plaxton rears for comparison
John Wakefield
28/08/16 – 06:21
Yes, the rear view has clinched it for me. Duple wins with the pleasing windows, the more attractive mouldings and the colour break at the waist level, rather than, awkwardly, reaching to the floor with the roof colour.
Petras409
28/08/16 – 06:22
Here’s another comparison for the discussion. MYB 33 and ETL 221 are seen – front ends only – at Weymouth on 1 July 1979.
Pete Davies
28/08/16 – 10:41
I have to agree on one major point with Petras409. While I am a great admirer of both the Duple and the Plaxton designs – and their quality construction – I’m the first to acknowledge that the strange “archway” effect at the rear of the Plaxton is very distinctly “prewar” – and the same applies even on the full size versions. A real case of “spoiling the ship for a ha’porth of tar.”
Chris Youhill
28/08/16 – 16:25
I see that most here prefer the Duple rather than the Plaxton design for the OBs illustrated. I do tend to agree, but I do wonder whether it is because the Duple was so widespread, whereas the Plaxton was less common? I wonder what we would be saying if the quantities produced were reversed, and we would measure everything else by the Plaxton design? Would we be saying the Duple was too fussy? Just food for thought. . .
Michael Hampton
28/08/16 – 16:26
The frontal design of the Duple blends the bodywork neatly into the taper of the bonnet in a way that gives the design a classic, unified appearance. On the Plaxton, the bulkhead behind the engine forms a flat projection beyond the bonnet sides in a manner adopted by some other coachbuilders on bonneted chassis, Strachans, for example. Those were the days when Duple bodies were in the forefront of styling and construction. From the later 1960s they were the amongst the ugliest things on the road.
Roger Cox
25/12/17 – 06:43
Very nice vehicle! I am trying to find out a little more about C W Blankley and Gem Luxury Travel. Does anybody know anything about them?
Richard Oakley
26/12/17 – 12:04
This is from memory only, and should not be considxered “gospel”. I believe that some, if not all, Gem operations were acquired by Fairtax of Melton Mowbray, run by John Penistone on behalf of Midland Fox, during the latter companies widespread expansion scheme immediately after privatization. I seem to remember some marketing-led “Gem-Fairtax” references, but as this was about the time of my departure from Midland Fox to pastures new at Shearings I cannot be certain.
Malcolm Hirst
26/12/17 – 12:11
Further to my previous comment I have just read on a local history page comments by Mrs. Blankley about the end of the company. She said that post-deregulation it was impossible to sell bus businesses as “anybody” could start up and she sold the coaches. I surmise therefore that Fairtax acquired the goodwill attached to the name. I have no recollection of any vehicles being taken over by Fairtax , but they could have “after my time”. It would be interesting to know what happened to their contracts and private hire book.
Malcolm Hirst
27/12/17 – 06:47
One thing which was notable about Gem (Blankley) was in being the recipient of what was, numerically at least, the first AEC Reliance, chassis MU3RV001. Body was Roe C41C, and looks a bit angular, I think we can say that Roe did quickly improve the design. https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/
David Call
28/12/17 – 06:27
Further info on Gem-Fairtax. In British Bus Days there was a low-cost unit based in London Country area called Gem-Fairtax Ltd,whose head office was 30 Millstone Lane,Leicester (the Midland Fox head office). Coincidentally (?) there was an unconnected (?) Fairtax operation based at the former Blands of Stamford depot, which was run (coincidentally?) by one Brian Garrett, the former owner/manager of Wreake Valley Travel which was a Midland Fox subsidiary after an anti-competitive buy out in early deregulation times. By the time of the new Fairtax operation the original (Midland Fox) Melton Mowbray Fairtax operation had been remerged into Midland Fox. The “new” Fairtax had a number of minibuses from similar sources to some of Fox’s second-hand purchases which may or may not have been ex Midland Fox. It all seems somewhat incestuous, and bearing in mind British Bus ( or rather Drawlane it’s immediate predecessor) and it’s financial methods not at all strange. All this information is available on various different web sites,and while the connections might be somewhat tenuous, it is not difficult to draw certain conclusions which may or may not be correct. Bear in mind also that Steve Telling (of Tellings-Golden Miller) was involved with Midland Fox at this time, that could explain the Gem-Fairtax connection in Surrey. Tellings-Golden Miller were actually the purchaser of V&M Grendon/Hills of Stockingford and NWP Travel (Powner) of Hinckley which were lumped together in one operation and subsequently disappeared without trace although the Powner premises were used by Midland Fox’s Hinckley minibus unit.
Malcolm Hirst
29/12/17 – 07:38
Cecil William and John Clifford Blankley began trading as the Gem Bus Service in 1926 with market day services to local towns using a second hand Chevrolet. Later a daily Grantham to Melton Mowbray service was added. Lincolnshire Road Car acquired the business with five vehicles on February 28th 1935 and the brothers then became drivers for LRCC at the newly opened outstation at Colsterworth. During the war Cecil Blankley restarted as Gem Coaches with a second hand Commer. A quite significant fleet was built up with a fair number of coaches bought new.
Nigel Turner
29/12/17 – 11:38
A couple of other titbits. Midland Fox bought Blands of Stamford the location of the “new” Fairtax. The Melton Mowbray operation traded as Melton Bus and Coach for a time. The “new” Fairtax morphed into ” Fen Travel” and competed strongly with Viscount. It’s opening fleet included 2 VRs, and 2 ex Barton Leopards – all from the Midland Fox fleet. While beyond the scope of the interests of people reading this website, it is quite probable that the financial manoeuvring of this labyrinthine is possibly even more interesting than the vehicles operated!
BYJ 904 is an Austin K8CVC with Plaxton C14F bodywork, dating from 1952. She was new to Dickson and is seen here on Southsea Common for the rally on 11 June 1995. According to the PSVC list for 2012, she has emigrated to the Netherlands as BE-67-57.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
15/11/21 – 07:06
Not sure that BYJ 904 became BE-67-57 in Netherlands, that number went onto a Bedford OB DJD 217. From my records the Austin K8 was sold in Bonhams auction in 7/08 to the Louwman Museum, Den Haigh.
The Dutch reg for BYJ 904 is BE-62-33 NOT BE-67-57 its in the Louwman Museum, Leidsestraatweg, La Haye
The above AEC Reliance chassis No 1598 fitted with a Plaxton Consort C41C body No 2355 was supplied new to Batty Holt Ribblesdale of Blackburn Lancashire in 1958. I bought the coach off a preservationist in Farnham Surrey in 1982 who had acquired it from Chiltern Queens of Woodcote, Oxfordshire where it had operated for a number of years in their fleet. Still in that livery I rallied it for almost 3 years before selling it to Whittaker Tours of Walsall who began to use it on vintage tours, weddings etc. It then went to some travellers where it has remained for a number of years gradually becoming more dilapidated. It certainly was a nice coach to drive and travel in 1950s opulence when I had it.
Several photographs of this vehicle appear on the website //www.travellerhomes.co.uk under the ‘AEC’ heading. Be warned that the sections of this site are not in alphabetical order (it is, after all, run by hippies!) so you will have to scroll downwards to find the AEC bit. According to this site the vehicle was advertised for sale on eBay (or as they prefer “greedbay”) in 2009. Has somebody bought it for re-preservation? I hope so.
Neville Mercer
What a beautiful looking vehicle indeed. I have driven many a thousand very happy miles in virtually identical coaches with Wallace Arnold Tours of Leeds, who had a large number of them. They were extremely nice to drive, had an excellent performance, their reliability was legendary (no pun intended on the model name) and the passengers found them comfortable and pleasant.
Chris Youhill
You lucky person, Chris. Reliances had left front line service by the time I gained my licence. I trained on an ex Chiltern Queen ZF 691 Reliance and ZF Reliances are my favourite vehicles. I was brought up in Sheffield on SUT Reliances of all descriptions. Anyone need help to drive their preserved Reliance?
David Oldfield
The magnificent ZF/690 Reliances caught us all napping at Wallace Arnold David. Until you got the hang of the unfamiliar gearbox the way that third and fourth gears seemed to be “anywhere” between first and second on the left and fifth and sixth on the right could be most embarrassing – we desperately “stirred the tub of treacle” hoping to find third and fourth until it eventually dawned on us that there was a gentle spring preventing unintentional selection of fifth and sixth – and then these lovely smooth powerful vehicles showed their true gentle and civilised nature.
Chris Youhill
Sounds as if you’re as big a fan Chris as I am! I was trained how to use the ZF. Good case for type training!!!
David Oldfield
Indeed David – and on reflection I’m just wondering if my memory is playing tricks ?? WAS the gentle protecting spring on the right, or was it it on the left of the gate to prevent unintentional engagement of first and second gears ??
Chris Youhill
I did my training on said vehicle when it was about 26 years old. I don’t know, or remember, how the springing was set up but it was supposed to centre the lever on the 3/4 axis. This it tended to do quite well, as I remember, although age wore the linkages – and with misuse (normally due to ignorance of how to use it) could make accurate selection of gears a bit haphazard. I remember a Western National driver, shortly after they had taken over Devon General, making a total hash of driving a DG 6U3ZR from Plymouth to Exeter. My problem, as a rookie, was selecting reverse rather than second – when setting off – due to being too brutal with the gear lever. My instructor reckoned I was responsible for many a case of “brown trousers” when I set off in reverse from traffic lights in Reading! As you said (Chris) once you had learned to tame the beast it was a real pussy cat. [The same was also true of the ZF Tiger – especially a 260/Van Hool (ex Armchair) that became a favourite of mine!]
David Oldfield
Thanks for those experiences David. I seem to remember now that 1/2/3/4th were normal and you had to overcome the spring to find 5th and 6th, and when changing down let the lever come out of the spring and locate and “settle” itself ready for 3rd and 4th. This would explain the possible pitfall, which I also remember, of engaging second instead of reverse or reverse instead of second when moving off in one direction or the other.
Chris Youhill
As a former Chiltern Queens driver I have happy memories of this vehicle as it was always a favourite with drivers, went well, and no body noise at all, the only problem was watching your speed as it went so well and ran quietly. Thanks for the memory.
Philip Smith
Yes super vehicles, PMT had about 6 Duple Commander bodied coaches and if drivers tried to pull away in second gear they would tend to go over the second spring in the gearbox and select reverse gear whoops!! The secret with this gear box was to treat it like a woman, nice and gentle. Good fast buses. PMT coach number C989 reg 4989 VT was an AEC Reliance 2U3RA ZF 6 speed gearbox won the Brighton Coach Rally in 1964.
Michael Crofts
I was highly amused Michael to read of your most gallant method of remaining in favour with the ZF gearbox, and I would totally agree that it is the best course of action. It has to be said though that the theory can by no means be applied universally to other gearboxes, and I can think of a few models which would treat such gentlemanly conduct with noisy and stubborn contempt – I’m sure other people have had similar “confrontations” with challenging but nevertheless noble vehicles – the Foden PVSC6/Gardner 6LW remains etched in the distant memory, and must take credit for ensuring that I still have a seemingly healthy ruddy complexion half a century after my last battle with the type !!
Chris Youhill
Interesting comments about Reliances and ZF gearboxes. Maidstone & District used this combination in their express coaches, (‘SC’ in M&D terminology), and they were an absolute delight to drive. Based at M&D’s head office in Maidstone in 1966/7, I had the rare privilege, whenever I went up to London, of being able to suggest to the driver that he might care to take a rest, and drive the coach myself instead. They were just exhilarating: very fast, comfortable and extremely well-mannered in every respect. However, I was mildly surprised to read about people making mistakes when operating the lovely 6-speed ZF gearbox, and Chris’s and David’s comments on accidental selection of the wrong gear rang no bells at all. (You’re right, Chris, the spring was between the 3rd/4th gate and the 5th/6th gate, so when changing from 5th to 4th, say, the technique was to drop into neutral, then hold the lever gently against the spring. Maybe my ignorance of any difficulty with using the ZF box was because the vehicles were then brand new and had suffered no wear in the linkages, but as Michael Crofts points out, they responded best to gentle treatment, and the lovely M&D was a very gentle company!
Roy Burke
Roy. Chris and my post are almost a year old. My problems were when I was learning (before I passed my test) and, to be fair, Chris probably meant on first encountering the beast. Subsequently, I have driven thousands of miles with no problems with AEC, Leyland, Volvo, DAF and Dennis applications of the 6 speed ZF.
David Oldfield
Roy and David, yes, just to confirm my comments on WA drivers being “caught napping” with the new AEC Reliances and the freshly introduced ZF six speed gearbox – a gearbox so totally different from the previous very familiar positive and easy five speed one with which we were all so familiar daily. Of course, as with the norm, there was no mention by the Company of the development and no familiarity training of any kind, and so a little “puzzlement” was to be expected – but we soon came to grips with it and, as everyone above has agreed, the gearbox and the chassis in general were superb – smooth, quiet and fast but totally civilised. I don’t think I dare put in print the top speed that the Reliances could achieve, but they improved the Leeds – Southend Airport feeder running times to come a close second to the aged aeroplanes in which our passengers were to cross the Channel !!
Chris Youhill
Pre-tacho and motorway speed limits, I was a passenger on a 760 which did over the ton – EASILY, and with no effort – on the A1, south of Scotch Corner!
David Oldfield
I have no further questions Mi’ Lud !!
Chris Youhill
All this talk of speed awakens more memories: when driven in a way of which Chris would disapprove, some buses (not coaches)- possibly CVD6’s- or aged Barton PD’s ?- used to “chuff” when “given their head” on the open road: they were probably doing all of 50…? Could we have an expert interpretation?
Joe
Well, David, I just can’t compete with your experience of going at over a ton on the A1; 70mph on the Swanley by-pass was the best I ever managed, but weren’t the Reliances lovely when they were moving at speed? As for Joe’s query, could the ‘chuffing’ be the effect of the governors?
Roy Burke
Reliances were lovely at any speed but not for nothing do I dub them them RR of coaches!
David Oldfield
We had two batches of AEC Reliance 590 with ZF gearboxes at PMT. The six Duple Commander bodied coaches were prone to overheating when driven for long periods in 6th gear. We blanked off 6th gear on all of them for a time and fitted C991 with two radiators in tandem in an attempt to cure the problem. Time dulls the memory, I can’t remember the conclusion to either experiment. The other five had Weymann DP bodies and spent most of their time on stage carriage work, latterly as OMO vehicles. To say they were unsuitable for this work is an understatement!! Most drivers managed to find 2nd and then the next gear was 5th!! I have to confess that I never mastered the 6 speed ZF – nor for that matter the AEC 6 speed constant mesh fitted to the short Reliance coaches. The ex Stratford Blue Tiger Cubs were easy (to me) by comparison.
Ian Wild
As I have said elsewhere, Ian, the 590 was AEC’s Achilles heel which gave them an undeserved reputation through its propensity to boil. It was a wet liner. Its predecessor and successors were dry liners – and didn’t have this problem. Unfortunately the damage was done and many, including Wally Arnold forsook AEC for Leyland.
David Oldfield
In 1981 during a get-together in Leeds we were taking on an excursion to York in a 6-speed Leyland Leopard that sounded different from the near-silent ZF unit. I asked the driver, who told me it was an AEC six-speed box. Back at Leeds he kindly offered me a go round the block. The change was beautifully positive and you could hear the engine just well enough to get clean changes. It struck me that this was an ideal chassis-gearbox combination. I can’t remember the name of the coach company or the registration of the Leopard or why it had been so fitted. Triple amnesia!
Ian Thompson
The ZF Leopard was offered as a sop to disgruntled AEC operators when AEC was closed down in 1979. Famously, both Yelloway and Premier of Cambridge has ZF Leopards after they could no longer get 760 ZF Reliances. Many went straight to Volvo (B58 or B10M) and missed out Leyland. I know a number of southern independents bought ZF Leopards in single numbers but I’m not au fait with Leeds area to know who might have had your ZF Leopard. It would never have replaced – or bettered – the 691/760 Reliance, but just think how much better the Leopard would have been had they offered the ZF earlier.
David Oldfield
01/11/11 – 06:46
Going right back to Neville’s very first posting regarding this fine vehicle, I have many times looked sadly at the pictures found on the Travellers Homes website and at the dreadful state that this poor coach had been allowed to get into..see here //www.travellerhomes.co.uk/?p=6445 Then tonight, by chance I came upon this Flickr website and found that thankfully, a major restoration has been undertaken and it is now once more gleaming! See here //www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/6121759708/in/photostream/ There is a conflict of dates as the “hippy” website claims it was awaiting sale in 2009 but the post restoration picture appears to be January 2008…maybe the camera date coding is wrong but whatever the reason..KBV 778 lives!
Richard Leaman
01/11/11 – 16:15
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the photo on Flickr was taken in 1986 – see the original text under the photo on this website for the reference to it being preserved in “Whittaker” livery. The date of 2008 on Flickr refers to the time when the photo was scanned and uploaded. If only you were right!
Neville Mercer
02/11/11 – 07:08
Neville… I’m sorry. I just did not realise what “86 JL” meant and was pleased to see the coach apparently restored.
I’ve gone back through the travellers website to check on how my confusion was fostered seeing the coach in a new livery.
1. In Geralds original picture it is in Chiltern Queen’s dark/light green scheme.
It’s such a shame and I guess may by now have been broken up or at best deteriorated even further.
Again, my apologies to everyone for the confusion and hoped for “restoration”.
Richard Leaman
02/11/11 – 09:29
We can live in hope, Richard – but more to the point – we can help and support those wonderful people who are able to restore and preserve these classic vehicles – and even better – run them at special gatherings throughout the year.
David Oldfield
03/11/11 – 06:32
David.. indeed you are right about appreciating the work and skills of the restorers. After my last posting above, I noticed that on one of the earlier pictures it now says “Sold in 2010 to..?” so it appears to have moved on but to what fate?
Richard Leaman
03/11/11 – 08:45
………and we should mourn the breakup of classic bus collections, like CPPTD in Broad Street, Old Portsmouth, forced on them by re-development and an unhelpful local council. Also, the likely demise of Aston Manor Road Transport Museum, under threat of closure. With additional council rent, they would have to charge £8pp for ALL visitors. And the purchase, the price was exorbitant.
Chris Hebbron
05/01/12 – 17:00
Ah what happy memories, the Reliance with ZF 6 speed gearbox, although I worked for Southdown at Eastbourne depot I got to drive East Kent’s 590 engined models on the old South Coast Express service to Bournemouth etc as changeovers with drivers, usually from Thanet depot, was a regular occurrence especially in summer, after our usual fare of manual gearbox Leopard’s this was pure Heaven. Other of your correspondents have commented on selecting 3/4 gears I always found that when coming out of 2 or 5/6 that taking all pressure off of the lever using only the palm of your hand would let it stand in the centre of the gate just right to gently slide into 3rd or 4th gear, a gentle touch was all that was needed. Any attempt at heavy handedness almost always ended in failure and confusion all round used properly along with the performance available they were a total pleasure to drive the powerful brakes and light clutch only improved the experience.
Diesel Dave
06/01/12 – 07:02
When I moved from Tynemouth and Wakefields ‘Northern General’ to Armstrong Galley the coaching division of Tyne and Wear PTE, most of the coach fleet was made up of Leyland Leopards with semi auto air change boxes, but we had two older Duple bodied AEC’s with six speed ZF’s, as a result all our drivers had to have any type licence. I don’t know if they had a 590 or a 760, but if they could get a grip I’m sure they could have scaled the North Wall of the Eiger. I would say they were a better vehicle than the Leopard, although the steering on the Leyland was more positive and the AEC’s had a tendency to wander slightly in comparison to the Leyland, but overall they were a nice vehicle to drive.
Ronnie Hoye
06/01/12 – 07:02
My first experience of the ZF gearbox was in the Aldershot and District Park Royal bodied 4MU4RA Reliances, which had the AH 470 engine. I did much of my PSV training and a great deal of subsequent driving on the Halifax Nimbuses, which had a six speed constant mesh gearbox that responded to light, sensitive handling. As I recall, the ZF boxes had a similar gate layout to the Albion, and light detente springs centralised the stick in the 3rd/4th plane. The subtlety of this arrangement was entirely lost on those of the ham fisted fraternity who would berate the gearbox on account of their own incompetence. Properly used, the ZF box was very satisfying and gave even the modestly powered Aldershot examples a fine turn of speed. Later, I drove several of the more powerful 590 engined/ZF model, which confirmed my earlier impressions.
Roger Cox
07/01/12 – 08:49
The 6-speed gearbox of the 4MU4RA was quite different from the one on the the 590s, and I always understood it was an AEC unit, not ZF. The code after the U is 2 for Monocontrol, 3 for synchromesh, 3Z for ZF synchromesh (although I’m not sure that the Z was added on the earliest ones) and 4 for constant mesh.
Peter Williamson
07/01/12 – 10:16
Peter. The 590 ZFs were 2U3RA (or 4U3RA air suspension variant). The Z was only added when the 6 variant (691 and then 760) was introduced [6U3ZR]. The A was dropped from the end because, by that time, there were ONLY air brakes offered. The 6 speed constant mesh (as in 6MU4R) WAS an AEC unit, only available on the medium weights.
David Oldfield
08/01/12 – 08:03
I have read somewhere that the AEC six speed constant mesh gearbox was originally a Thornycroft design. Until the death knell of the Leyland coup de grace, Basingstoke works became the main AEC gearbox factory after the Southall takeover. Alan Townsin’s book, Blue Triangle, seems to make no mention of the AEC 6 speed constant mesh unit being fitted to the Reliance, though this is not absolute evidence. The fifteen 1963/4 Park Royal bodied Reliances numbered 466 to 480 of Aldershot and District were early examples of the 36ft long variant, and I am sure that the gearboxes were of ZF manufacture. Chassis of the same specification were supplied to City of Oxford. A later Aldershot and District batch of five Park Royal bodied 36 footers had the standard 5 speed synchromesh gearbox.
Just in case anyone notices that Bus Lists On The Web has A&D 466-480 as 4MU3RA, this is probably a red herring, as Peter Gould’s site agrees with Roger that they were 4MU4RA. As I said above, the 4 means constant mesh (well strictly speaking it means non-synchromesh, since synchromesh gearboxes are constant mesh as well!). We know that the 3 could refer to one of several synchromesh gearboxes, so it is theoretically possible that the 4 could refer to more than one gearbox as well. But the crucial thing is no synchromesh. Personally I have never heard of a ZF box without synchromesh.
Peter Williamson
09/01/12 – 07:15
North Western’s last batch of Reliances were 36 foot long machines, fifteen being buses and twenty dual-purpose, all on 2U3RA chassis. The last ten (941-952) were fitted with the ZF six-speed gearbox which I believe is what is being referred to here. Peter Caunt, in his book on driving reminiscences with North Western, recalls these as having a close gate, as described, which took some getting used to. He had little chance to wind them up but says then when you changed up from fifth (at about 55 mile/h) to sixth what usually happened is that speed dropped by about 10 mile/h! I suspect there was quite a ratio gap and the engine was delivering sufficient power at the low revs.
David Beilby
09/01/12 – 13:44
As ever, 6 speed ZF covers a multitude of sins – many different versions with differing ratios. The AEC application – only on heavyweights – had an overdrive sixth gear. [That would explain the speed drop – although it did not necessarily happen if driven “properly”]. When Leyland withdrew the Reliance from the market and offered a 6 speed ZF on the Leopard, in 1979, the Leyland application had a direct sixth gear (1:1). The Dennis Dorchester and Seddon Pennine VII had there own versions (Eastern Scottish even having a 4 speed ZF variant). The early 36 footers for North Western and the batch including No.9 for Devon General shared the same 4 speed synchromesh AEC gearbox as the SUT BWB registered Plaxton coaches of 1962. As such, they sounded totally different – more like a Regent V.
David Oldfield
10/01/12 – 16:32
Peter, having trawled again through all my literature on AEC, I confirm that you are correct on the subject of ZF gearboxes fitted to Reliances – they were always synchromesh. For the last fifty years I have laboured under the misapprehension that the A&D 466-480 batch had ZF boxes. We are never too old to learn!
Roger Cox
10/01/12 – 18:04
…..but ZF’s latest, superb, gearbox – the AS-tronic automated gearbox – has no synchromesh on it at all. [The computer doing the changing, the extra weight of the synchromesh was thought to be superfluous.] Volvo obviously agree as their iShift is similarly endowed, as is, I believe Scania’s version.
This photograph was taken on 26 June 1958 at North Landing, Flamborough, adjacent to the terminus of the East Yorkshire route from Bridlington. It is one of my very first transport photographs, taken during a family holiday at Flamborough. One attraction would no doubt have been the nice shiny coach on the right, new that year to Boddys. They had two other Yeates bodied Reliances that year, VBT 191 and VBT 192, of which VBT 191 is currently preserved with Fowler of Holbeach Drove. The other coach MWB 531 belonged to H. G. Anfield (also of Bridlington?) this is a Commer Avenger I with a Plaxton C33F body, and was new to Sellers of Sheffield, and it was number 7 in their fleet. I presume these would have been on half day tours from Bridlington?
A most interesting picture from a very well loved area. Firstly, yes, Anfields were from Bridlington, and operated from very basic premises behind the Gas Showrooms adjacent to the railway level crossing in Quay Road. The question as to whether the two coaches were on any kind of excursion from Bridlington is intriguing as the journey is only about four miles or so each way and could be accomplished by frequent service buses – perhaps the ultimate destination was Flamborough after a longer scenic ride beforehand ?? Another thought arises too – I wonder if the Anfield operation and vehicles had recently been taken over by the much more prosperous and presentable Boddy’s ??
Chris Youhill
That`s another old Bridlington independent. I remember it from earlier days, about 1946. Did they not have a stage service about that time from Filey to Flamborough? A Bradford neighbour had a PLSC Lion bungalow just under the old lighthouse, about 100 yards from where the photo was taken. I remember Mr Brock, the owner, telling me it was purchased from Boddys, but I also remember him telling me it was purchased from a Bradford yard in 1946, so not sure whose it was. Did Boddys also have an ex YWD or West Riding centre entrance Roe TD2, or am I mixing memories with Williamson??!!
John Whitaker
John, I don’t remember any independents having a service from Filey to Flamborough to be honest. Similarly I can’t recall Boddy’s having double deckers, but there WERE no less than seven ex YWD centre entrance Leyland TD2s in Bridlington. White Bus Service had HD 4625 and 4631. Williamsons had HD 4629/4630/4801/4803/4810. The latter was an incredible fleet considering that only two vehicles were needed to operate the town services to Old Town or Queensgate – and there were always a few interesting single deckers in stock as well.
Chris Youhill
Thanks Chris for the Williamson/WBS detail. My memory is very blurred, but I remember the centre entrances so well, and have this vague recollection of riding on one well outside Brid, the other side of Flamborough. Did WBS run past Flamborough? My main memory of Boddys is as you say, a coach company. I intend checking the OS archive regarding these 2 fleets Chris, but I think this may not be necessary as you are a mine of information here. Very grateful for it all.
John Whitaker
Many thanks John for your kind appreciation, but do please make whatever further checks you can – I’m afraid that advancing years mean that output from the “mine of information” reduces from time to time and sometimes contains samples of “nutty slack.” !! Your journey with WBS will no doubt have been on either HD 4625 or 4631 and the WBS service to Flamborough did have two distinct branches at the outer end – one to North Landing and the other to Lighthouse – which may have given the impression of further territory although I am not aware of the Firm ever having ventured further.
Chris Youhill
O frabjous day, etc, etc. What a joy to see actual photos of John Boddy’s fleet. One of my favourite fleets of my younger days. I well remember, staying in Brid in a flat in West Street, overlooking his Garage on the corner of New Burlington Road. Every morning at 8am the doors would be opened to reveal a wealth of red and cream vehicles. He also has another garage down Horsforth Avenue and one in Hull, at Morrill Street, off Holderness Road. As far as I am aware he never operated any stage services, but many trips to the local area. Mr Boddy also operated a fleet of taxis, as he would personally collect my late grandma, from Brid station to where she stayed for 3 or 4 months each year. Just as an afterthought I am trying to compile a complete fleet list for Boddy’s, but I believe there are a lot of vehicles which were purchased for spares or rebuilding, I’d love to hear from anyone who has a complete list.
Keith Easton
I can give Keith just two snippets of information which may be of interest. Boddy’s also had a very tiny garage for two or three vehicles at the Town end of Hilderthorpe Road – it is still there I think, but I can’t remember just which business occupies it now. Also , unknown to me at the time and I could kick myself, Boddy’s had an ex Samuel Ledgard Leyland KP3 Cub with Ledgard B20F bodywork, one of a batch of four built in the famous Armley workshops. It was UG 521 of 1932 and was sold to Boddy’s in 4/46 and then sold to Freeman of Brough in 11/46 who sold it to Thompson of North Newbald in 6/54.
Chris Youhill
Chris (Y), thanks for those two items. Boddy actually had both UG 521 and UG 522, both acquired august, 1946 (before my time) 521 was withdrawn May, 1950, and 522 by November, 1948, this one is listed as going to Bailey of Fangfoss. I’m not certain, but I think the garage in Hildethorpe Road, is now owned by a small local car dealer, whose name escapes me at the moment, was it opposite the end of Station Approach (now the entrance to Tesco’s)?
Keith Easton
Interesting views indeed Keith and, as sometimes happens, both conflict with PSV Circle records which show 521 as I mentioned above, and 522 as sold to Bailey of Fangfoss by 5/47?? The little garage in Hilderthorpe Road must be yet another premises, as it is on the same side as Station Approach but much nearer the town centre, in a very small yard, just before the road turns sharp left into Bridge Street (I think it is) to join up with Queen Street near the Brunswick pub. If only we could turn the clock back and finalise these things it would be so very satisfying. I am very long overdue for a visit to friends in Bridlington and must put this right as soon as the daylight prolongs and the weather improves.
Chris Youhill
Thanks Chris, I Know exactly where you mean now, but what it is now, I’m not really sure, it’s in what is now the tattier end of Hilderthorpe Road. UGH 522 date may be a bad transcription on my part, as I took the details down in a rush. Incidentally I still remember the White Bus stand in Queen Street, Ah happy days! If only I’d been a little bit older at the time I’d remember more of what is now gone for ever. Brid was a beautiful town in those days.
Speaking of White Bus, did Boddy’s take over the WBC office in Queen Street? As I recall, when I moved to Brid in 1990, it was in use by Appleby’s (as successor to Boddy?)
Regarding Anfield, I don’t really know what happened to him, as far as I am aware, he was not acquired by Boddy’s. Obviously he was still operating in 1958, when the photo was taken, but I have no recollection of Anfield vehicles in the late 50’s.
Keith Easton
05/02/11 – 05:56
John Boddy in the 1950s I had little interest in buses – So annoying as my Godfather was a relative of some sort – However in the 60s he told me that John had made a gents agreement to buy Williamsons out when the time came. However EYMS and the Traffic Commissioners had other ideas – Commissioners said that it would be preferable for a BET concern to operate local Stage Carriage services. I am sure Boddy had to be compensated. As for Anfields I believe they just folded. I have an old picture of their motor garage on quay road which I will send to Peter
Ian Gibbs
05/02/11 – 09:37
Keith and Ian – Thank you for further most interesting reminiscences of the Good Old Days in Bridlington. I’m not sure if Appleby’s took over the Queen Street office of WBS direct but it seems most likely as I believe they did take over Boddy’s operation in the town. Boddy’s also had a booking kiosk in the Promenade somewhere nearly opposite the Grand Pavilion Theatre.
Here is one of my own amateur teenage snapshots of Anfield’s Quay Road premises, around 1951/2, with some fascinating gems to be seen.
Chris Youhill
05/02/11 – 16:22
Chris and Keith- Boddy’s had the small end building on the promenade close to and almost opposite York Road which was the same side as Pavilion I recollect Appleby’s using this for visitors trip bookings with boards standing under a window for York City Various Abbeys etc. The adjacent open area allowed coaches to pull on and park up to load. Boddys often had that lovely ex West Riding coach on there I think it is preserved. Behind this open area was a high wall where a side lane ran down to the Thorn Road Coach Park for out of town coach parking. Incidentally York Road opposite side of Promenade had a huge premises of Garage and Ice Rink above. It was never a rink when I knew it but it had been the premises of a 1920s Bus Firm Called Tooth & Waddington (They had 3 different owners but no space here for all that saga.) T&W ran 6d circular tours around the area for visitors and locals. One route ran up to Flamborough via Sands Lane, Limekiln Lane, Sewerby, 1921-ish. This route was one that Reuben Williamson was trying out (Stage Carriage)with a Double Deck Motorbus, However Charles Williamson, Reubens Son, (aged over 80 when I met him) told me that due to the competition of T&W (who were basically Pirates-well it is near the Sea!) Reuben’s revenues were poor that Williamsons gave it up, returning to the two routes of Old Town-Quay and Queensgate – to Town. T&W got their reward when as they overstretched the finances owing for petrol and had to sell out to Archer Robinson in 1924 (Robinson’s story is quite interesting he never worked his staff on Sundays-but if you lost a spanner from the set of tools he provided for Roadside repairs he stopped 6d a week from your pay to pay for another one) This in turn let Blue Bus in as they had no qualms about Sunday Ops. So I will let you digest this.
Ian Gibbs
05/02/11 – 19:23
Hi Chris & Ian, what a wonderful “can of worms” this topic has unearthed. With regard to Boddy’s Hilderthorpe Road garage, I believe it is the one which is set back behind a shop which is now called “Bygones”, as I had a drive-by last week, but couldn’t stop as I had Mrs E. on board and she was keen to get on, but if I’m correct, it has been used by, if not still by, a limo hire company. I like the picture of Anfield’s garage and vehicles, but I still have no recollection of him at all. With another query; who owned the enquiry office at the Spa end of West Street, as I recall seeing boards leaning up outside advertising Boddy’s tours and excursions? I believe that a guy called Gibbs related the T&W, Robinson etc, goings-on in a book on EYMS!!! I recall the enquiry office on the Promenade, at least when it was Appleby’s. Boddy sold out to Appleby’s in May, 1983, which gave Appleby’s a foothold in both Hull and Brid, but I’m not sure where their Scarborough ops came from, unless it was post de-reg competition. In the early 1990’s I recall passing the Horsforth Avenue garage, with 3 Appleby coaches inside. Incidentally does anyone have an Anfield fleet list, as I know of only 1 vehicle!
Keith Easton
06/02/11 – 17:09
Here is the shot that I forgot to attach to my last posting.
Ian Gibbs
06/02/11 – 18:29
Thanks a million for that fabulous picture Ian – the garage and yard were behind that imposing building which I’d forgotten all about long ago. I shall treasure the memory I assure you – another important piece in the Bridlington transport jigsaw!!
Chris Youhill
10/02/11 – 05:53
Trying to find the location of Anfiled’s premises on the photo! Where was it Ian? The nearest I can guess is just north of Quay Road crossing north of Moorfield Road, adjacent to what is now Higgs & Barker. Am I close or not?
Keith Easton
11/02/11 – 06:47
Keith and Chris Anfields garage was at the rear of the building on photo it is as you thought Keith Moorfield Road went up the side towards the rear of Moorfield School at the far end was a White Bus Garage which I believe only took single deckers. There were four very dilapidated cottages built adjoining the Anfield Garage all were demolished. I am seeking further advice on the matter and will post any details. One puzzling query for you Keith re EYMS Fleet Listed on it is YX 5215 Dennis E – no further details given – I emailed EY about this bus around 2 years ago but no reply – I offered a possibility for this Dennis B Coach – Hale Garage and Coaches were bought out by EY in 1933 (the date given by Fleet History) so did this vehicle come from Hale? Just a guess but I was sorry that no response came back. Can anyone confirm the source maybe PSVC have some record. Perhaps I should produce some booklet or other on Brids Passenger Pioneers Motor Buses began in 1905 so rival Ezra Laycock. Brid being a Seaside Resort had many Pirates or Entrepreneurs shall I say, One ran a Serpollet Steam Bus in 1910!
Ian Gibbs
12/02/11 – 09:41
Ian & Chris, Hi, thanks for the confirmation on Anfield’s garage & premises. Now for YX 5215; I’m basically responsible for this one, but there is no official confirmation by the company, indeed their historical records commence in 1987 (when privatised), the details on the website prior to this date is basically from my fleet list, as supplied to John Whitaker (see Leyland PD1 JAT 455 – 487). The Dennis did indeed come from Hale Garage, and was East Yorkshire’s share of the vehicles. I came across the details shown some time ago, in Keith Jenkinson’s book on West Yorkshire, or if not there, I cannot recall where it was. I would, of course, welcome confirmation or correction of the matter. I, personally would welcome a book on Brid’s motor-bus heritage, if you could ever get around to it! Ezra Laycock was the first bus in West Yorkshire, and it would be good to know that Brid had the first bus in East Yorkshire!
Keith Easton
12/02/11 – 09:44
Ian, we eagerly await your Bridlington booklet so please begin writing as soon as possible. To those of us with such treasured memories of the Town and its fascinating transport such a work would be very welcome. I think I’ve mentioned this incredible little fact before, but I daresay it stands repeating – as a sign of respect to the Sabbath the Williamson’s bus stop pole in Chapel Street did an astonishing switch on Sundays. On weekdays it was located in a pavement socket right outside the Chapel front doors – but on Sundays it was moved lower down to another socket nearer to the Promenade junction – Mr. Wesley and others would have been very impressed indeed.
Chris Youhill
12/02/11 – 10:51
Keith. First, many thanks for the EYMS list which I am gradually absorbing with glee! Ian. I think a booklet about Bridlington`s bus pioneers would make fascinating reading. From the EYMS list, there were several takeovers in the region, including the post war ones of Williamson, but who were “Blue Bus” and “Bridlington and District”? Its a truly fascinating history, and, for me at any rate, crammed full of nostalgia! Does anyone have a photo to post of the Doncaster “Renown” running for Williamson? I look forward to many more posts on the subject. Just wish I could contribute more, but my memories of Brid are from regular holidays there up to about 1955, and then much less frequently.
John Whitaker
13/02/11 – 06:25
Hi Ian, back to YX 5215; The details quoted are those when owned by West Yorkshire, with the exception of the bodywork. For origins see your book on EYMS, page 28. When it passsed to WYRCC, it was rebodied with a Brush B31C body. It is possible that this was a second-hand body, and as such it may have caried the YX mark, which was, of course, a West Riding mark anyway. If this is the case, the registration when acquired by East Yorkshire, would have been different. Chris, Blue Bus, was Archer Robinson’s company which was acquired by the LNER (indirectly) and passed to United, along with Bridlington & District and Scarborough District. In 1930 these three companies, due to their locations, were split between East Yorkshire, West Yorkshire and United. Thirdly Ian, I think that you are now committed to a “Brid book” or you will have at least two very disappointed enthusiasts!
Keith Easton
p.s. Sorry Chris, I meant John (W). Incidentally Archer Robinson, built a cafe at the terminus of his route to Flamborough, North Landing, I believe that it is still present today, or at least there is a cafe there in use, at the end of a very bumpy ride.
13/02/11 – 06:30
Sorry John, but I don’t know of any photo of the Renown – however I do have a Robert F. Mack picture of the Leyland Titanic from the same town making a spirited turn from the Promenade into Queen Street – with a remarkable display of exhaust fumes to show that it means business !!
Chris Youhill
13/02/11 – 18:39
Do submit it for us to see, Chris Y. You can’t beat a photo with atmosphere, even if the atmosphere is about to choke all around the Titanic!
Chris Hebbron
14/02/11 – 09:22
Yes Chris, please do! I had no idea that there was also a Titanic! When did White Bus start up, and Williamson for that matter, after EY had absorbed (presumably) all the Brid area independents? I remember Doncaster 6 wheelers of both types used as Skipsea bungalows c. 1950. Perhaps these were connected with WBS in some way, or maybe just a coincidence. There were 2, still in Doncaster maroon, lined up on the cliff top minus engines, but otherwise intact, and later they were painted up in their holiday home colours. I cannot remember Anfield at all, but what a collection of delights there were in the photo of their garage on (Hildethorpe Rd.?)
John Whitaker
Chris contributed his shot of the Williamson’s Titanic, but I do not want it to be just lost in a long list of comments so I have uploaded it as a separate posting but it is here as well to keep this thread going.
Peter
14/02/11 – 09:43
Copyright Robert F. Mack
Here is the picture of Williamson’s ex Doncaster Titanic (76 – DT 9643) in action in Queen Street. Unfortunately the destination blind is obscured by the sun but would say either “The Quay and Queensgate” or “Old Town and The Quay”, depending on whether it was quarter to or quarter past the hour, or on the hour or half past. It was a 1938 Titanic TT5c and served only one year in Bridlington, from July 1949 to July 1950. Possibly its Titanic running costs, maybe aggravated by the torque converter, resulted in this short career. In view of the notorious maritime disaster of 1912 I’ve always thought it either brave or cavalier of Leyland to give the model this particular name !!
Chris Youhill
14/02/11 – 13:03
Chris. Thanks indeed are due for this wonderful picture! I wonder if this is the bus, or one of `em which finished up at Skipsea? Like you say, torque converter with 3 axles must have made them expensive to run on such a short urban route, but I suppose they were more modern than most second hand availability at that time? Presumably the TD2s were in stock at the same time, or did they replace the Doncasters, as the TD2s ex YWD survived until the takeover. Absolutely fascinating!
John Whitaker
14/02/11 – 15:09
Several large Sheffield double deckers were on the Caravan site on the Marton Road Camp owned by Mr Mortlock possibly the Titanic went there. Re White Bus Service they began with two Ford Charas according to John Boddy, for visitors in the area. White Bus Service replaced the 2 Fords (TT Baicos?) with 4 Lancia Z types. All were charas named after Musicals of the 20s. Archer Robinson DID have a cafe at Thornwick to provide Patrons refreshments, Incidentally their Lancias had to go in reverse near the cafe as the petrol flowed backwards from the carburettors uphill, whilst the Horse buses passed them!
Ian Gibbs
14/02/11 – 16:17
I have found the above Boddy’s letterhead in my “Letters Files”, In the letter John Boddy Jr States that John Boddy & Son agreed to buy Town Licenses from Williamsons, Both EYMS and Bridlington Borough Council objected on the grounds that the service could be more co-ordinated if EYMS bought Williamsons. He also noted that a Leyland Lion was bought in early days of WW2 from Grey-de-Luxe of Hull (Formerly Burn’s Grey Bus Service which EYMS Bought out in 1926)
Following the sale of Burn’s Grey Bus Service to EYMS, the former owners (with £7,100 in hand), being Messrs’, Burn, Tyler and Solly, set up the new business “Grey-de-Luxe Luxury Coaches” (with Eric Russell joining later). The Grey-de Luxe name came about because David Burn bought an ex-Motor Show coach in c1927 it had a Maroon & Grey Livery. Finally in the above letterhead for Grey-de-Luxe mentions objections to Christmas Day Service in Hull 1931, (I believe one of the objectors was ‘Kingston Motors’) who were running up to Hessle, so their Route would suffer losses over Christmas, EYMS bought ‘Kingston Motors’ out as ‘Hull City Motor Works’ in June 1932. If there is interest in Burn’s and Co I have a picture of the new owners with their Coaches.
Ian Gibbs
15/02/11 – 06:18
Chris on my copy of the photo of the Titanic, the display clearly reads “The Quay and” the bottom line appears to be “Queensgate” but it is not very clear. Ian, of course there’s interest! Any local operator (Hull & East Riding) is of interest. On another matter no-one picked me up on this, in my post on the 13th, Archer Robinson traded as Green Bus, which became Bridlington & District, whilst Blue Bus was J Atkin’s company, otherwise the remains of my comment stands. Sorry for the error, but the grey cells are a bit rusty.
Keith Easton
15/02/11 – 06:20
Thx, Chris Y, for posting the Titanic. I see your point about the trail of exhaust smoke, blurring Montague Burton’s establishment in the background! It’s a very modest building, compared with most around. And I like the name of the Gipsy Lee shop, whatever it sold! I fully agree about Leyland’s risky choice of model name for these vehicles. Maybe this is why AEC’s Renown had higher sales!
Chris Hebbron
15/02/11 – 06:52
I have the photos above of BT 9820 which in the PSVC list is quoted as a Dennis ex Enterprise (Fussey) of Cottingham, but the photo here is definitely a Leyland. Any Ideas?
Keith Easton
15/02/11 – 15:22
Keith and all, As for BT 9820 I too noticed this when I compared Fussey’s Dennis and this picture of the sale to EYMS of Burn’s Bus Service. David Burn was in the frame in a suit I recall. I reckoned that someone swopped Plates after the Fussey and Burns sales took place, if the ‘Enterprise’ Dennis was taxed but not a runner and the Leyland was serviceable well save a few bob, We can only guess! My copy of the Fussey’s Dennis is very poor – hint The ‘Enterprise’ name was due to the 1926 Strike! Tom Fussey ferried Naval Personnel to and from the Docks, during the Strike. He befriended the Captain of HMS Enterprise, so applied the ship’s name to two vehicles. The 2 Daimlers EYMS acquired with the Dennis’s may have had Logos, these were Nully Secundus and Non Pareils. Tom Fussey began with Horse Buses taking over from a Publican.
Ian Gibbs
16/02/11 – 05:54
Paul H – I bet her crystal ball needed a good wipe over every time the Titanic passed by!
Chris Hebbron
16/02/11 – 06:00
Ian, and other interested parties, I suspected that this was a Burns bus, by the destination box which reads “Hull & Withernsea” This vehicle is not recorded in the PSVC book PB17, perhaps this remained with Burn along with the Leyland Lion BT 9981. This would make Burns total fleet size 8 vehicles. With regard to Fussey’s Dennis, I very much suspect that I have the same photo as you as mine is identical to the one in your book (page 15), however I did try blowing it up, and whilst not being 100% certain, the registration could possibly have been BT 9520. I did query this with the PSVC and they confirmed the BT 9820 mark, but perhaps this was a bad transcription by the motor taxation office?
Keith Easton
16/02/11 – 16:44
Keith and all, Dennis BT9820 is on page 15 of Dennis Buses in Camera a better picture of this very Bus. My file for BT gives BT9820 Exors E Fussey new 7/26 As you say correctly the Leyland is Burn’s is it carrying this plate in EYMS control 1927? used for Withernsea Services by them? I see that Fussey’s was (officially) bought 24 Nov 1927
Ian Gibbs
17/02/11 – 07:04
Going back to Archer Robinson (Green Bus/Bridlington & District); his garage in Brid at Cliff Street is very much in evidence even today, but is in use as a cafe. It is located on the corner of Cliff Street and Cross Street. Ian, does the photo of the Dennis, in the book, show the registration plate any clearer than my small photo? Also you mention your BT file? this and any other similar files must be very interesing indeed.
Keith Easton
18/02/11 – 07:37
Chris, Keith, John re Anfields The Higgs-Barker Forecourt was built on Quay Rd site, Anfields land had 4 houses, known as Bishops Terrace, next a Cinema, then Anfields garage. Keith Archer Robinson Garage, There was a photo of it in EYMS files! Archers graage photo was by late Geoff Atkins he wrote me that the 1941 Hull Blitz hit EYMS Chambers he supplied them many original prints to make up lost pics. He did not put his name to them he sent me some in 1983 these ones I saw at EY in 1960s they must be at EYMS The Dennis photo in Camera BOOK is a good one. My files are the result of years transcribing data by hand for my Vehicle data and meeting bus men (on my Moped). In 2010 I was told it now costs TEN pounds for a single search per document for photocopy or email! can’t afford it. Incidentally I lost a folder in 1980 It held Licensing data from 1911-1926 for buses drivers conductors in Hull hand copied (Own fault) If anyone’s found it-Likely!! let me know! Too much about me this is a bus site.
Ian Gibbs
18/02/11 – 19:32
Hello all. I have been reading your comments on Bridlington area operators with interest, and yes I would like to see a book about Bridlington operators, that’s about four you have sold now Ian (I did buy both copies of your EYMS book and supplied several pics for the book!) I visited Anfields depot on 16-5-65 looking though the side door of the new garage building and the following coaches were parked in there as well as several cars, LJR 554, 3529 BT, 3205 BT, LNP 892 & RWF 714, but I did not have my camera with me when I went Bridlington old bus garage hunting last year. I have sent the pictures above of Williamson ex depot at 25 Havelock Crescent, 16 Havelock Crescent was also an address of Williamson but is a house now.
Mike Davies
20/02/11 – 06:34
Mike Davies and all, Interesting pictures of Havelock Crescent Mike you have reminded me I might have a photo of the Williamson garage when the GPO rented it. Re Titanic bodies Mortlocks Camps there appears to have been more than one bought for parts cannibalised towed to camp wheels removed taken back to depot. They were popular for camping being large there was room for a better kitchen.
Ian Gibbs
27/02/11 – 16:16
I worked for Boddys coaches for many years and can confirm about 1968/9ish Boddys took over Anfields with 3 coaches ie 4777 VM, 319 FWB & 3529 BT which was always breaking down, also Boddys sold out to Applebys at the Hull depot a year or so before selling the Brid business.
Ken Wragg
03/03/11 – 08:53
Hello Ken, I was talking to Dave Longbottom last summer about Boddy’s Coaches and he mentioned your name, as being someone who had kept a very detailed record of the fleet, including buses acquired for spares or rebuilding. If you still have this information, and it is readily accessible, I would be very interested to see a copy of it, if at all possible. I can be contacted via Peter at the website. Many thanks Keith.
Keith Easton
03/03/11 – 10:44
Yes details of vehicles acquired for spares by Boddys would be very interesting, Ken.
Mike Davies
07/03/11 – 11:32
I can confirm that Boddys and Anfields coaches would both have been operating an afternoon tour to Flambro North Landing and then on to Flambro Lighthouse and back for tea, then maybe a mystery trip in the evening, both companies ran in competition to each other.
Ken Wragg
08/03/11 – 14:32
I am working my way through the comments and can confirm that Boddys ran a service probably starting at Filey via Hunmanby Cortainly Speeton Buckton Bempton to Flambro this info came from John Boddy jnr and older staff members as a result of me finding a stock of bell punch tickets in a cupboard during a clear out. I do not know what buses were used, the service was run by EYMS by 1966 when I did 2 seasons working for them before I started at Boddys, what many folk don,t know is both Boddys and Anfields, bought old buses both d/d & s/d to sell to folk to make holiday homes, that is why there where many on the local camps. However earlier on during shortages of buses in the 2nd world war many of the earlier holiday homes were repurchased and remade into buses I was told of a Anfield one reversing out of the garage with the paint still wet and a chimney still on the roof. Boddys acquired a ex Sheffield Leyland PD2 in the 1970,s purely for the engine to put into EHL 336 it only stayed a few days as we did not have garage clearance for it and DTY 442 towed it away to a scrapyard at Worksop were they were both broke up.
Ken Wragg
09/03/11 – 06:09
Very interesting Ken do you know any registration numbers for the buses turned into holiday homes or the Sheffield decker ? I believe Boddys acquired KHCT’s RH 8473/8475/8476 & 8477f or spares in 11/45 – did these also end up as holiday homes?
Mike Davies
09/03/11 – 12:14
Thanks to Ken, the origin of the Flamborough PLSC Lion bungalow of a Bradford neighbour can be confirmed! I well remember being told it was bought from Boddys, even though I have never seen a PLSC reference in their fleet. Thank You Ken, also, for the confirmation of Boddys Filey to Flamborough service, which I was sure I remembered riding on, and not quite as sure remembering it as a centre entrance bus. Perhaps on its way to Williamsons, as I am talking about 1947. Maybe the fascinating array of old buses at Skipsea in those years came from Boddys. There were certainly 2 Roe 6 wheelers from about 1948/9 Tram bodies galore too!
John Whitaker
09/03/11 – 17:57
There was still a tram body at Skipsea up to recent times, not sure if it is still there, but it did appear in the background of a recent “South Riding”series. There are a lot of old sheds and caravans, but I doubt if there are any buses left.
Mike Davies
10/03/11 – 08:52
Re. Mike’s comment about Skipsea: From 1948 to 1963, we had a Bradford tram body at Skipsea, until the sea eroded our little patch of land! Within 200 yards each way from us were:- N.Western RC TS, West Yorkshire TS B10A, Yorkshire Trac. TD1 (Enclosed), Bradford 6 wheel “Paddler” trolleybus, and the 2 Doncaster 6 wheelers, one of which I think, was an AEC. There were plenty more further away, along with sheds, railway coaches and tram bodies galore! Just wondering how many of these buses were supplied by Boddys??!!
John Whitaker
11/03/11 – 07:39
I would very much like any details of the Anfield-Boddy fleets too Ken, also your input re any notes I submit-thanks in advance.
Ian Gibbs
11/03/11 – 11:10
In my 1951/2 photo of Anfield’s yard, which appears earlier in this topic, there is an ex Doncaster six wheeler against the left wall in the view. The bus was in “as arrived” well worn maroon and I’m sure was never used by Anfield’s, and so I suppose its likely that this was one of the many destined for the coast and for use as a holiday or permanent home.
Chris Youhill
11/03/11 – 16:31
I never noticed the “Doncaster” at the side of your Anfield’s depot view Chris. Brilliant. I bet it was one of the duo which finished up at Skipsea! They would make a very durable holiday home, especially being teak framed!
John Whitaker
11/03/11 – 18:47
This tram body was still at Skipsea and may still be on site.
Mike Davies
13/03/11 – 10:56
I went to Skipsea today (Saturday 12th March) and can confirm the tram body is still there, but no buses!!
Mike Davies.
14/03/11 – 07:43
Hi Mike. The tram body photo takes me way way back, and I am amazed that it is still there! This is a Hull car by the look of it, and probably not one that went to Leeds with it being a 3 window car, although I think some 3 windows did get to Leeds. Imagine what Skipsea cliff top was like in the post war years to about 1965, when all the delightful old buses, trams and railway coaches adorned the cliff edge, from the edge of the bombing range towards Atwick, right down past Ulrome, almost to Barmston! I often make the walk in my imagination, to see if I can remember the detail of any others which I have not mentioned, and feel sure I remember this Hull car as being quite near the Atwick end. Maybe wrong, as I can remember other Hulls. Thanks for going, and thanks for reviving all those memories!
John Whitaker
14/03/11 – 08:52
The East Yorkshire area in the 1940s/50s was an absolute Mecca of holiday residences which had once been passenger vehicles. When I was in the RAF at Patrington in 1955/6 the A1033 from the village to Withernsea, and the Spurn peninsula in general hosted some magnificent withdrawn vehicles from the prewar days. A particularly rich site was on a sharp bend known as “Hollym Corner” – why oh why didn’t I take some pictures of PLSC Lions, Gilfords and other gems ??
Chris Youhill
15/03/11 – 14:55
Mention of Hollym Corner by Chris Youhill, reminds me that on Hollym Road Withernsea, was Kemp Brothers Garage I send a copy picture of a 1931 Gilford 1680T, ch 11965 owned by Mainline London, It came to Kemp from Mainline – date not known to me – someone is sure to know the details, if so what is the source please, also I believe it was rebodied by Barnaby’s Hull c1943.
Ian Gibbs
15/03/11 – 16:28
just to clarify, Boddys when I joined them in 1967 had 3 garages, Horsforth Ave were the repairs etc were done West St was a storage garage, and Hilderthorpe Rd was also the registered office the garage at the rear held only 3 coaches, if you were to take up the foundations there you will find various chassis holding up the floor as there is a river behind it. Also there was a booking office at the front, and one at the harbour end of West St and the promenade were there was a large car park/coach loading point. Excursions were also run from Filey bus station booking at a hut on site that was made by Boddys and can be seen in a few old EYMS photos at Filey bus station, these excursions passed to Primrose Valley coaches in the 1970s. Another excursion point was Butlins Camp at Filey, this was jointly operated by Boddys, EYMS and United, one year United would operate, then EYMS then Boddys, however in practice EYMS and Boddys would share operations for two years according to traffic demands. Not forgetting the Hull garage for 3 coaches, many Brid coaches were needed on Sundays to work from Hull. On a none bus side Boddys operated 3 fleets of limousine for hire to funeral directors, there were Rolls Royce, Humbers and Austin Princesses, they kept us busy in winter, so you can see Boddys were quite a busy company. Boddys did not not have the office in Queen St that was a Appleby office and not the same one as White Bus,
Ken Wragg
16/03/11 – 06:38
Hello Ian. My records for Kemp, show GP 5147 coming from Mainline No24, as you said, date unknown, it later passed to Blue Line, Armthorpe and was rebodied by Barnaby DP26F in 1943, so it must have left Kemp by 1943. There is a photo of it in Prestige Series-Doncaster 1 with its Barnaby body, with Blue Line.
Mike Davies
16/03/11 – 06:44
Just to refer briefly to another fascinating feature of the bus scene in Bridlington – who remembers the UNITED bus station in The Promenade, from where their service 111 used to leave for Scarborough via Speeton and Hunmanby. A bus station it certainly was – for ONE bus !! It is still there and is on a corner roughly opposite Garlands the newsagents. The former United office is now a cafe, and customers in fair weather can dine “alfresco” on the very spot where many a fine Bristol G, K, J, L has rested during layover time.
Chris Youhill
16/03/11 – 10:49
Yes Chris I remember it well a one bus bus station, no room for a dupe!!.
Mike Davies
16/03/11 – 14:24
Regarding the United bus stn I certainly saw two buses on the stand many times not a lota room but only high summer. United also had a garage for two buses in the station yard now demolished to firstly extend the coach park and now were Tescos roadway is
Ken Wragg
Hi Mike Ken Chris. What an interesting set of new notes everyone, Mike I would be interested to compare your fleet notes for Kemp, re Blue Line I have the same book, is there a psvc publication for Blue line? Roger Holmes and I corresponded 1985-2003 about Barnabys and South Yorks firms who bought Barnaby products. Fascinating stuff this Ken Boddy’s Filey operations and excursions, far more than I realised. Kemps had cars for Funerals. Fred Barnaby rebuilt Limos into Hearses on the side carried out by a specialist who worked on Rolls and Austin V-Plas. They made a replica Jowett Jupiter body for 1952 Rally, chassis from Armstrong’s Beverley. I did a short piece on it for Jowett Club. Chris I remember the United ‘Bus Station’ somewhere I have a copy of a picture when People’s Bus of Scarborough used it, if I can find it I’ll put it on site.
Ian Gibbs
16/03/11 – 15:18
Gentlemen : please may a newcomer join in your fascinating discussions? Because this newcomer, having stumbled upon your website accidentally while looking for something else, has clear memories of most of your topics, having been born and bred in Bridlington (1938 – 1955)! And I can probably fill in a few gaps in your joint knowledge. Starting with the most recent topic, the United bus station in the Promenade, actually it could just hold 2 buses when necessary (I remember it doing so on a few Summer Saturdays, including the once-daily Summer service 20 to Newcastle which ran for several years in the late ’40s and ’50s). Service 111 actually had 3 variations : via Speeton and Hunmanby, and via Burton Fleming and Hunmanby, both running all year round, and via Reighton which ran in the Summer only. And did you know that United had a dormy shed for 1 bus, at the back of the Railway Station? (Not a lot of people know that!) Switching topics, ah, those ex-Doncaster double-deckers: 5 of them passed through Anfields’ yard; the 2 which went to Williamsons (DT 9643 and DT 5332? or 5337?), plus DT 7812 (Leyland, DT 9857 and 9859 (AEC) although a Doncaster Corp. fleet list I’ve seen gives the latter 2 as 9757/9. And that wonderful photograph of Anfields’ yard! That’s DT 9857 or 9859 on the left, then HL 5814 (a former Bullocks (156) Leyland Lion LT5 chassis re-bodied (make unknown), the old body (complete with Bullocks destination blind (why didn’t I have the foresight to “borrow” it) stood around in the yard for some months, suggesting that Anfields must have removed the body before sending the chassis for rebodying; then CWF 490 (one of 5 Bedford OWBs to be seen in Brid., the others being with White Bus (2), Boddys (1) and Everingham Bros.), then VN 5692 (a Commer B40 with canvas roof), and I’m not sure about the one on the right but I suspect it’s JV 6964 (Dennis Lancet2). I’ve got a similar photograph from around the same period (sadly of inferior quality, black&white taken on a box brownie) showing a TSM HSLA4(GLY446), a Leyland Cheetah LZ (DOR 57) and a Leyland Tiger TS2 with a weird Mulliner body. Re Boddys’ Filey Flamborough service, yes, I can confirm that this did exist, I remember my Mother reading out to me the notice in the Bridlington Free Press about it’s being started, I would guess that would have been around 1947. For how long it operated I don’t know; my impression was that it folded eventually. Re the ex-Yorks. Woollen centre-entrance Titans, yes, Williamsons operated the 5 you mention, and White Bus had 2 but only operated HD 4625, not HD 4631 which I imagine they used for spares, because it disappeared without trace. Incidentally, in addition to the Moorfield Road garage, which as you rightly say could only take single-deckers, and only 2 at a time at that, they had a bigger garage in the Old Town which housed about 6 buses including double-deckers. And I confirm that the Queen Street offices were not taken over by Boddys, but sold off and I think became a shop. I reckon that’ll do for now; but there’s plenty more I can tell you.
Patrick Hooper
17/03/11 – 06:31
I’m sure that everyone joins me in welcoming Patrick to the website and in particular to this utterly fascinating Bridlington topic, which is quite rapidly approaching the status of a book !! On my old snapshot of Anfield’s yard – Patrick mentions two possible numbers – the ex Doncaster six wheeler was AEC Renown DT 5337. Eagerly awaiting the next instalments from everyone – I wonder if arrangements could ultimately be made for some kind of a gathering of those of us interested in the erstwhile Bridlington district independent operators to discuss the history and to assemble an archive of photographs. Many years ago I did put an appeal in the “Free Press” for any pertinent photographs – there must surely be many in the Town’s attics somewhere – but sadly and perhaps understandably there were no replies. I was contacted , however, by an elderly former Williamson’s driver (one Harold Dowson) and spent the day with him – he managed to introduce me to a lady in Brett Street who was a relative of Tim Williamson but sadly she had no material to show us.
Chris Youhill
17/03/11 – 06:34
Hi All, Yes I do remember the United bus station, but I must admit that I had completely forgotten about it, until I read the post. Ken, did Boddy’s run a taxi business also, as I’m fairly certain that I remember my late grandma, telling me that every year when she arrived in Brid by train from Hull, she was picked up personally by Mr Boddy Sr., or did I imagine this? On page 44 of Ian’s book on EYMS there is a photo of EY PD1 number 452 on the Promenade in Brid, to the left of the PD1 is an United bus situated in the United bus station, showing route number 111. I’m sorry that I don’t have a copy of it.
Keith Easton
17/03/11 – 06:36
Firstly, thanks to all contributors for such a great response to my original photograph – your knowledge is absolutely amazing! Secondly, Ian, Mike, I can add the following information re Gilford GP 5147 – there is a Blue Line fleet list within Circle publication PB29 History of South Yorkshire PTE Part 2 1979-1986. This and 2PB13 Part 1, 1974-8, both published in 1993, contain full fleet lists of all independents acquired by the PTE in that period. Both Parts 1 and 2 are still available from the Circle. GP 5147 is given as new 7/31 to Main Lines Ltd, London WC1, no 24 with a Wycombe C26F body. Acquired by Blue Line by 1933, rebodied in 1943 with Barnaby d/p body (seating not given). Withdrawn by Blue Line 3/50, then given as scrapped. Looks like the Circle is unaware of it ever running for Kemp!
Bob Gell
17/03/11 – 06:43
Hello all. This site on Bridlington operators is getting bigger and better each day. I have a list of operators in Bridlington with some vehicle details from the 20’s & 30’s does anybody know any more about the following ? J Burrell, (Bridlington Garage Co). no address BT 380/BT 381/BT 1511. F Burrell WF 7184. J Broumpton, Beverley House, Pinfold St, BT 2816/BT 2878/BE 9189. S G Day, Brunswick Garage, Bridge St. C 2930/BT 1948/BT 2743/BT 2321/ BT 2807/BT 9952/AT 7417/BT 3304 WY 6253/NW 1759. E & T from Brunswick Garage D Day, Danescliffe, Thirsk Av. H Dixon, no address BT 5713/BT 5743/PY 756 C Hattersley t/a Blue Charas, 6 Somerset St. AT 2004/AT 8321/AT 7219 H H Knaggs, 30-32 Promenade. BT 382 H H Mudford, Central Garage, 7 Prospect St. BT 2323 H Ripley, 35 Promanade. BT 4227/BT 5880/AJ 4779. I know not all of the above numbers are PSV’s and some operators listed may be dealers or NPSV.
Mike Davies
17/03/11 – 10:08
Boddys did run taxi,s latterly this was one car a Ford which Mr Boddy snr ran himself but there was also a 2nd car hardley ever used but as Mr Boddy snr had reached the age where really he should not have been driving, he had a few scrapes, and on Mr Boddy jnrs orders the 2nd car was hidden from view, Mr Boddy snr then took too painting the West St garage until he fell off a ladder. Boddys had horse drawn Carriages/taxis and the stables were at West St, I think this is how the car hire business started, Mr Boddy snr held hackney Carriage/taxi badge no 1, at one stage in the 1970,s we hired a garage in Marshall Ave to house the cars from Mr Naggs another old horse drawn operator, we needed the space in West St to house coaches.
Ken Wragg
18/03/11 – 07:58
WF 7184! “I remember it well”; and I never thought I’d be writing about it 60 years later! When I knew it, it belonged to D.W.Frankish of Brandesburton, and freqently appeared in Brid., painted in colours (navy and primrose)which appeared to me to be identical to those of East Yorkshire, hence I wrongly concluded that it must have originated with one of the numerous fleets taken over by EYMS, and was unbelieving when, after I wrote to them asking about it, they responded that it had never belonged to them. It was a Bedford WLB, and I subsequently discovered that Frankish had acquired it in 7/47 from Clarke, North Frodingham (who perhaps had bought it from F.Burrell if Mike Davies’s info. is correct) and eventually sold it to either Wood or Thompson (no other details known). Now, then, to pick up a few minor points in the foregoing exchanges: John W.- in my living memory (which goes back to 1943) White Bus Service operated only to Lighthouse and North Landing, via Sewerby and Flamborough (with short-workings to both the latter), and hence those are the only places where you could have ridden on the ex-YWD HD 4625 (unless it was used for an excursion, which seems unlikely). But finding WBS Commer MJ55 open and unattended in the Station yard one day, my brother and I daringly ventured inside and turned its destination blind, to find “Scarboro’” included on it; enquiries of my mother elicited the opinion that WBS had indeed operated to Scarborough at one time. Does anyone know any more about that? Ian – there’s no such road as Thorn Road in Brid., the coach park behind the one owned by Boddys belonged to the Thorn Hotel. By the way, there was a third coach park in that vicinity, on the opposite side of the Promenade, owned by Mr.Carvill, and used largely to accommodate Wallace Arnold and Skills’ coaches. The reference to YX being “a West Riding registration” has me perplexed – surely YX was always a London registration!? WX and YG, amongst others, for the West Riding. Ian again – the Grey-de-Luxe Leyland Lion was KH 4071, sold in 12/40 to Boddys, broken up by 02/44 so I never saw it. Mike again – you mention an operator H.H.Knaggs; probably co-incidence but possibly not, WBS had a driver Mr.Knaggs (he always drove HS 8306). Re the Doncaster area independents – there are two marvellous books in the Prestige Series about them, with many superb photographs. Now, a question: EYMS destination blinds always had, in addition to “Bridlington-Lighthouse” and “Bridlington-North Landing” (“via Flamborough, Sewerby” in each case – a rare instance of the intermediate places being in the reverse order) a third provision “Bridlington-Thornwick Bay via Flamborough, Sewerby”. No service to Thornwick Bay ever operated in my lifetime, and indeed the side road to Thornwick Bay was hardly up to bus operation and there was nowhere to turn a bus round when you got there. Did such a service ever operate before the war? Or was one planned but never materialised? “That’s all for now, folks” as the cartoon films used to say; oh, except for one thing – Mike: do you, or did you used to, live in Hessle? If so, I believe we met to exchange EYMS photographs etc. about 25 years ago.
Patrick Hooper
18/03/11 – 15:47
A further comment for Chris: near the top of this site you mentioned that you thought that Boddys had no double-deckers; in my living memory they had 3 at various times – YS 2093, an ex-Glasgow Albion (Around 1945-47 at a guess), HL 4852,an ex-West Riding Leyland TD1 (same period), and HG 2707, ex-Burnley, Colne & Nelson (c1952-54) – both YS and HL were painted in Boddys’ livery, and I remember seeing HL in actual use, but HG remained in BC&N livery. (Information I obtained second-hand is that Boddys also acquired 4 ex-Hull Corporation Daimler CP6s in 1945 and broke them up for spares, which is strange because I’ve no trace of Boddys having ever had any other Daimlers, anyway I never saw them.) Re Boddys’ premises: you’re all more or less right, they had 3 covered depots, the little one in Hilderthorpe Road (more of a yard really, but with offices), the big one on the corner of Richmond Street and New Burlington Road, and a third in Horsforth Avenue (Anfields had the premises next door, by the way); also the coach park with kiosk on the Promenade (opposite York Road) and the booking office at the West Street/South Cliff Road corner. Chris ~ super idea for a gathering of all interested parties; do we all live in different areas, I wonder? (I’m in Middlesex.) Do they still hold the Hull – Brid. vintage bus rally? If so, how about us trying to meet up for that?
Patrick Hooper
18/03/11 – 15:57
Hi All, Ken very interesting about Boddy and horse drawn carridges – he had 2 Austin Taxis I think. Patrick I have a correspondance file on things Bus 1970s onwards I’m sure I had a letter from a Mr Hooper was it yourself? Thanks for correcting Thorn Hotel not T Road. WF 7184- Thurgood C14F – right on all points however was the Clarke of N Frodingham a publican-Harold Hopper of Beeford had a photo of WF 7184 which he indicated he had owned then sold to Frankish, it had come from Thurgoods to him new, so it looks like Hopper-Clarke-Frankish-Burrell (or Burnell), YX Registrations-London CC 1928 Grey De Luxe thanks for this note. EYMS Blinds-I tend to agree no “service down to Thornwick Bay” however Archer Robinson ran small buses (probably the GMC Ks) off the road by the Thornwick Bay Hotel/pub to a refreshment building. Mike the info posted 17th is some of this from the Cards Mike Walker used to fill in for PSVC Mike and I updated cards as info came in. The Burrell brothers were Jobmasters off Promenade when Motors arrived they joined in – another vehicle they owned was a Durham-Churchill from Birmingham. J W Broumpton lived up St Johns St, the family name was spelt Brumpton and Brompton also! BT 2816 – ex Military Thornycroft. Stan Day and partner? Doris Day not the Brid ‘Stage Coach’ she had a 14 seat Fiat chara S/H from Harrrogate Road Car Co same source for WY 6254. BT 1948-Is this a taxi more detail welcome please. H Dixon-one of 3 Dixons Arthur Chas and Walter (problem here) there maybe a Flamboro’ Dixon family some did Haulage. Charles Dixon owned a Chara he may have driven for Mudford-A chara smash in Flamboro’ village late 1920s involved A D Dixon (driver for Chas) with a JB McMaster,(Hessle) Chara they collided with Dixon’s rear end, not known which Dixons branch. though Arthur Dixon had driven Horse Charas since age of 8 years!!! alledgedly. The BTs are correct is the PY 756 PY 754? Charlie Hattersley not Brid but Hull Arthur Knaggs owned BT 382 it came from another Brid owner ended up in Nottingham I believe. Horace Howe Mudford I know of only this vehicle, he came from Sheffield. Ripley was Agent/Dealer, Two of these Vehicles given were Williamson at one time- AJ is ex Robinson Scarboro to Ripley.
Ian Gibbs
19/03/11 – 07:55
Re Boddy double deckers: I also have EN 4741 a TD1/Brush H24/24D from Bury Corporation, May 1948, but listed as scrapped in December, 1948, perhaps the body was in a caravan park somewhere? The Daimler CP6’s are listed in PB22 (Hull Corporation Fleet History) page 20, passing to Boddy in November, 1945, presumably without seats (they were used for reseating trolleybuses) again to a caravan park?
Keith Easton
19/03/11 – 13:17
Thanks Ian for the info on the Brid “operators” I knew you would be able to help, in answer to an earlier question about Kemps have some info on the following vehicles YG 83, GP 5147, VN 2817, VN 7273, EK 2068, WX 3567, WF 7023, WF 9299, YG 5084, BWF 198, BWX 663, AWY 218, DG 7409, EBT 172, AVY 187, GWY 428 & DUA 15. J Kemp, DG 7409, ANU 740. G Kemp, BRN 654. Most of this info will have come from the PSVC, therefore you should have the same. Please send us the pic of the Peoples BS in the United bus station if you get the time. Hello Patrick yes it was me, I thought I remembered the name from the distant passed, how are you OK I hope.
Mike Davies
19/03/11 – 13:19
Hi Ian, Keith Patrick and Chris. I cannot remember any of these buses at Skipsea, or at least not close to us within half a mile each way. This may help in elimination if you are trying to place them, Hull CPs etc. I do remember riding on Boddys Filey-Flamborough service, as I said ages ago. My memory was of a centre entrance bus, and it is re-crystallising (there’s a word!) in my memory so that it COULD have been in BCN livery, about 1947/8 time. Just a thought!
John Whitaker
20/03/11 – 08:20
Hi All, Following the recent comments on the small United bus Station in Bridlington, Here is the picture which shows a United bus (type Bristol ??), in the bus station. The photo is taken around 1960 or so and is extremely nostalgic, not just the buses, but the atmosphere; Pearsons novelty shop, a great delight for a 13 year-old. Hello Mike, following a recent post, are you the same Mike, that I purchased a large quantity of EYMS photos around 1979-80? I was living in Blenheim Street, off Prince’s Avenue, at that time.
Keith Easton
20/03/11 – 10:44
Oh Keith, what I would give to experience Bridlington again in those wonderful days. The evening of their fame was unfortunately looming for the “old order” of vehicles like the beautiful Leyland PD1, and yet the newer types like the United bus still had individuality and character. The Scarborough bound single decker is almost certainly one of the Bristol MW5Gs with ECW bodywork to the usual attractive and immaculate standard of the Lowestoft concern. These semi-integral vehicles, and their LS forbears with separate chassis, had a delightful but harmless little idiosyncrasy – it was occasionally necessary to open the cab gate slightly in order to move the gear lever far enough to the left to engage reverse gear – and I think its fair to say that the comment sums up the total of any adverse remarks that could be made about these tough and appealing and efficient machines. I admit to being biased with admiration, but I can think of absolutely nothing adverse to say about Leyland PD1s – the EYMS Beverley Bar masterpieces in particular. I believe that Pearsons novelty shop is still alive and well too !!
In answer to Patrick’s suggestion about the Hull to Bridlington rally, yes the East Coast Annual Run is on Sunday 12th June this year. The possibility of a meeting at Bridlington of the Devotees of the golden independents is definitely worth some discussion I feel.
Chris Youhill
20/03/11 – 10:48
I just had to comment on Keith`s wonderful photograph showing the Bridlington UNITED bus station! My overriding memory of the EYMS bus station is of an extremely cramped and tightly packed through “street type” bus station, and one where , once loaded, buses had to nudge through nervously to exit. I remember having to walk from the covered area to wherever the (Hornsea) EYMS bus might be parked, and this involved walking in close contact, and in front of parked vehicles, some with engines ticking over. I do not know when United opened their Brid bus station, but I have loads of memories of J and L type single deckers in this station , just over the road, and mostly showing “Scarborough”. In this (later) case, the bus appears to be an MW type saloon. I wonder if the united/EYMS Scarborough service was in any way coordinated, or did they follow different routes? EYMS buses used to show intermediate points of Filey, Cayton Bay, and Butlins Camp. I don’t know why, but all this Bridlington nostalgia seems to be of a particularly powerful variety, and thanks, Keith for a super photograph!
John Whitaker
20/03/11 – 15:45
Hello all, I have a poor photo of Boddys YS 2093 Albion/Cowieson with Filey-Butlins camp on the blinds, which may be of interest (if any body has a better copy of this pic, could they post it) and a pic of FV 971 a still from the film “Holiday Camp” filmed at Butlins Filey.
(Could have a copyright problem with film clip)
Yes Keith, I think that would have been me, I recognized a lot a the photos you sent to the EYMS web site, as supplied by me-I was hoping EY would put some of there own old pics on the web site!
Mike Davies
20/03/11 – 19:20
Hi All re film “Holiday Camp” was it a documentary or a comedy about the Huggits on Holiday the popular Radio family. I’m sure I have seen this years ago, lots of buses queue to drop patrons off at the ‘weeks’ end another queue of buses taking passengers back home definitely remember Albion Radiators (possibly Bullocks) some EY saloons too that Boddys pic is superb also never regret the poor quality pics they’re still a welcome sight till a better one turns up. It would be useful to find out if Holiday camp has been put onto DVD and which film company made it. I heard last week that the preserved Lion from Boynton Hall (Brid) has a new owner in the Keighley area the engine turned over within minutes of some TLC! false number WF 811. Mike re Kemp my info is not as complete as your notes indicate some of mine is from Giles bros fleet. Mr Walker and I lost touch when I moved across counties. The ‘Brid Meet’ in June sounds a good idea to me too, sorry I have not found the United pull-in photo yet still looking.
Ian Gibbs
21/03/11 – 07:59
I remember now been told that boddys ran double deck buses to and from various airfields been built in the 2nd world war and they were kept on airfields away from brid. Maybe this is how the first holiday homes arrived. I cannot remember the no of the Sheffield decker we got for its engine. maybe RWB or RWE I had the front no plate for many years but it is not impressed on my brain.
Ken Wragg
21/03/11 – 08:05
Mike, yes some of the black & white photos on the EY website probably did come from you, please accept this as an acknowledgement! Re EYMS photos, I was lucky enough to see these in the mid 1970’s at Anlaby Road, but I did not have any means of copying them at the time; also I acquired a photocopy of the entire EYMS historical fleet list, and it was from this that the fleet details on the website was compiled, in addition to the one on this website. When I contacted Darren Stockdale at the EY website, he confirmed that the company had neither photographs or fleet list, perhaps they remained with the NBC residuary, somewhere?. With regard to the Lion “WF 811” I’m sure that I read that it had been running on it’s KW registration some time ago, I do have a photo of it at an East Coast Run from several years ago. I shall probably be attending this year’s ECR, but I don’t get too far these days, due to other responsibilities.
Keith Easton
21/03/11 – 12:54
Hello all— Keith, no problem with the photos on the EY web site, I would have sent them if you had not, many years ago, myself and a EY driver went to as many ex/old/deceased! EY staff that we could find, to try and get as many bus photos as possible, we did very well, and passed a lot of them on to EYMS and in return I copied many of EY’s collection (which I would love to go through again). The Holiday Camp DVD is still available and going for about £14 on Amazon not sure it is worth that, as it only gets interesting at the end when they are all going home on EYMS/United/Boddys vehicles.
Mike Davies
22/03/11 – 06:10
Well chaps I guess 12 June at brid is a good place for any interested in meeting and as I will be there with my stall and lots of East Yorkshire area photos for sale why not make my stall a meet point its is the one with the motorhome behind it. Advert now over
Ken Wragg
22/03/11 – 14:52
What a first class idea Ken – your stall sounds like a very convenient and easy place to meet and I, for one, am greatly looking forward to having a good chat with all the folks involved in this topic ……..ermmm book !! When I posted my little Anfields snapshot and the one of the WBS Gilford I never expected such a vast amount of expert archive material to surface – quite incredible, and very rewarding indeed.
Chris Youhill
29/03/11 – 07:43
Just having a cursory look at this excellent site, I was interested to see Anfields Coaches mentioned. I was with West Yorkshire Road Car in the 1950s when Anfields had a ‘base’ in Malton in the charge of a Mr Lamb, and I got involved with them in certain ways, – at least one coach was based there – a Dennis I think, VD 6432. I believe they ran trips for the local York Football Supporters Club for a time out of Malton.
David Allen
29/03/11 – 13:22
David, that is a most interesting fact about Anfield’s connection with Malton. Mr. Lamb of Malton was, I believe, himself a coach proprietor and had a hiring arrangement with Wallace Arnold. Mr. Lamb bought (or hired from dealer Hughes) Sentinel UUB 931, formerly WA, in 1963 and used it for three years.
Chris Youhill
30/03/11 – 06:01
I can confirm that Wilf Lamb did work for Anfields at Malton then set up his own business and on the boot lids of the Anfield Bedford SB3,s it said Bridlington and Malton. Wilf ran a centre entrance AEC ex Wallace Arnold for many years and if my memory is correct he had the Commer TS3 when Anfields closed down. Later Wilf also had a very nice Harrington AEC ex Flights.
Ken Wragg
31/03/11 – 09:21
Here is a photo of the Archer Robinson/East Yorkshire premises which I took while in Bridlington a week last Tuesday. I’m sure that the present day customers of the Sandown Cafe can have absolutely no inkling of the automobile gems which have graced those hallowed walls in times gone by. Personally I would prefer the glorious whiff (and no cholesterol) of a reluctant misfiring PLSC Lion to the “chef’s special” of the present times any day.
Chris Youhill
01/04/11 – 07:23
Nice photo Chris, I think that you’re almost certainly correct about the cafe clientele, but to me it is immediately obvious, especial when compared with the photo in EY days in Ian’s book on EYMS. The trouble is that I’ve seen it so much that I never got around to photographing it (or the ex Boddy’s garages either – must get around to it one day!)
Keith Easton
01/04/11 – 20:20
I know just the feeling Keith, and the same day that I took this picture I drove past the Boddy’s garage in Horsforth Avenue – its only thanks to this invaluable and enjoyable saga that I became aware of such premises. Next time in the resort, which could possibly be next Tuesday very briefly, I shall take a picture of that rather respectable looking building.
Chris Youhill
01/04/11 – 20:24
While we are on Bridlington depots, can anybody tell me which depot this is?.
I was taken to it some years ago, it was then used as a builders yard, so I took this one photo and left, it was used by EYMS (the upside down sign looks to be EY) and came from a Bridlington op, but I cant remember where it was (its an age thing!!) or who it came from. any ideas
Mike Davies
03/04/11 – 09:00
This is in Havelock Place or Cresent not sure which it was used by Corrigans scrap metal merchants then frontage and house knocked down and then another srap man Brunton used it, now a carpet wharehouse. not sure who used it before EYMS, im sure someone will know!
Ken Wragg
04/04/11 – 07:00
Ken, with respect are you sure this is Havelock Crescent as it seems a far more spacious premises than that narrow residential street would accommodate ??
Here is a picture I took a few years ago outside what was Williamson’s depot in Havelock Crescent – the elderly gentleman is one Harold Dowson who had been a driver with the Firm after WW2. This view is similar to the two which Mike Davies submitted recently.
Chris Youhill
04/04/11 – 11:17
The premises in your photo is further up and across the road from the Mike Davies older photo and is really in the next street. I have had this confirmed to me by an ex Corrigan employee who tells me the upside down sign was at one time over the opening to the right of where it is in photo
Ken Wragg
04/04/11 – 17:35
Hello Gents I’ve just caught up with the ‘brid busy bees’ comments, Havelock Cres is the scene with Mr Dowson about one third down the street from the Quay Road entry turn right down to the picture area. This was – I may have noted the GPO vehicle service depot rented from Williamsons. I believe it went through into Quay Road for the Wagonettes to exit into Quay Road remember no Queensgate as houses were demolished to create a road for it.
Here is a picture of Cliff Street showing the length of Bus Queues in the summer season. The tall chap talking to the motorcyclists is Mr Amos Frankish a Driver note his drivers cap. The Bus is a second hand Maudslay the queue is at least 48 persons the Booking Advert states Flamborough Scarborough Hornsea there are six more trips-routes listed on other windows. Chris Y re the query of depth please remember that the Garage depth is equal to the depth of a house as it was built between adjacent houses! to exit onto Quay Rd, I’m puzzled by the B&W photo is this Stepney Grove off Scarborough Rd, there was also a small premises in the left Corner of Havelock Cres possibly backing onto Havelock Place this was a garage-workshop of Mr Dukes he also had Buckrose Garage, Corrigans rings a note in relation to Havelock as they skipped loads of 78s which I missed getting (excuse tears I’m filling up with memories)
Here is a ‘Map’ showing the street area,didn’t WBS have a small unit in Cambridge St down from Havelock St end between houses before Swindon Street end of Cambridge St?
Ian Gibbs
05/04/11 – 05:50
Hi All, just athought to throw into the melting pot! Didn’t EYMS purchase a propery in Havelock Crescent around 1929, prior to the “new” depot in St John’s Street which was opened in 1937? There wasn’t a great deal of services operated by EYMS in Brid’ prior to the purchase of Archer Robinson and Blue Bus companies in 1930. As Mike says, the Bookong Office sign does seem to be in the EYMS 30’s style, and I beleive that Williamson’s property never went into EYMS ownership at all, (neither did his buses for that matter)!
Keith Easton
Thanks to Ken and Ian for this further information on this really intriguing topic. I visited the location yesterday and took three pictures.
The first two are, I’m sure, of the strange premises in Havelock Crescent – the ones in Mike Davies’ picture – so these buildings are still in existence and largely unaltered. A good view (over a wall) can be had from Queensgate and this suggests indeed that it goes back almost to Queensgate Square. The other view is taken looking into the corner of Havelock Crescent, and shows that this little building (which was securely locked) is now in the ownership of the Bosch car electrics agency who have Williamson’s premises shown in my picture. Incidentally I now appreciate for the very first time that the latter building is far larger and deeper than I’d previously realised, and was obviously capable of holding most if not all of Williamson’s fleet at any one time. I had a barmy moment in which I was sure that I could hear HD 4803 (ex Yorkshire Woollen Titan TD/Roe H24/24C) pursuing me up Havelock Crescent with asthmatic petrol engine – after I made a public fool of myself leaping out of the way onto the pavement I realised that it was only wishful thinking from a very very happy time long ago.
The third picture is of the Boddy’s depot in Horsforth Avenue which in now, I’m told by a local, Council owned and houses amongst other things the pseudo “trains” which run along the Sea Front.
Chris Youhill
10/04/11 – 05:00
Wilf and Harold Lamb commenced coach operations in September 1959 with Commer Commando BJR325. The AEC Reliance was 8314U which they ran from12/68 to October 1973.
David Hick
Hallo again. 3 comments on your recent items: (1) There was definitely no access from Williamsons’ garage (in Havelock Crescent) direct to Quay Road in my time, nor ever so far as I know – my father’s shop was at 250/252 Quay Road, located roughly where the non-existent exit is marked! (2) Nor am I aware of any “WBS unit” in Cambridge Street, which I cycled along on my way to Moorfields School. (3) The one-time EYMS premises in this vicinity were at the corner of Havelock Place and Havelock Street, with a rear access from Havelock Crescent. The building was a timber-merchants throughout my childhood, and I’m ashamed to say that I knew nothing of its bus history until long after I’d left Brid. Did you know that Williamsons had a small garage in Nelson Street? So now then, how many people are up for this suggested meeting-up on 12th June? It’s a 500-mile round trip for me, and probably a 2-night stopover, which I’m happy to undertake if worthwhile (wife may not be so happy but there you go) – what say you all?
Patrick Hooper
19/04/11 – 19:14
Hello all, Patrick thankyou for clearing up the direct entry bit into Quay Road this seems logical as I should have realised, Also the ‘imagined’ WBS premises in Cambridge St. I’m wondering if the Nelson Street place was made into a car parking area. Pre 1920 Williamsons Horse-buses would simply exit at either end of Havelock Cres as would the large Daimler deckers later on. Im happy to meet up 12th June as wife and I will stay over for a day or two on Pembroke Terrace near Spa then I can take some photos of Bus Premises on a ‘scenic’ drive of old Brid.
Ian Gibbs
19/04/11 – 19:20
Hello all. The number of bus depots around Havelock Crescent seems to be increasing every week!! My notes show that EYMS purchased a garage in Havelock Crescent in May 1930 this was previously known as Dukes Garage, the depot was closed November 1937 and has been leased to many private business since July 1939.( this fits in with the notes above from others) so is this the garage in the corner as pictured above? This depot was still owned by EYMS when it passed to NBC and became NBC owned. My notes also show that land in St John Street was purchased in 1936 and J Quibell and Sons Ltd, commenced building in May 1937, it was completed and brought into use 8th November 1937, it was extended in November 1952, and three cottages in front of the depot were purchased in 1956 and 1962 and an enlarged forecourt was developed in October 1962. I went to Brid last week and took the same photos of the same depot as Chris did, but I’m still not sure if its where I took the old black & white pic!!
Mike Davies
10/05/11 – 07:34
When I was 8 we used to play in an empty garage yard which I think was in Havalock Cres. There was an old coach in a big shed and we used to jack it up as high as poss with a huge trolley jack then take it in turns to drop it as quick as we could while others were sat in it! Health and safety?
John
21/10/11 – 06:50
The ex-Sheffield PD2/12 that was stripped of its engine and various other bits and pieces in the summer of 1967 by Boddy’s at Bridlington was the former Sheffield 673 (RWB 73). The engine was transplanted into Boddy’s ex-West Riding Tiger, EHL 336, which survives in preservation, no doubt with the power plant from the erstwhile Sheffield machine still in place!
Dave Careless
22/10/11 – 06:25
Thanks Dave for that info I had forgotten the reg no of the Sheffield decker
Ken Wragg
29/10/11 – 16:40
I worked as a 15yr old in the West Street office of BODDY”S MOTORS. Flambro Lighthouse & North Landing 2/6d. Filey 3/-. Hornsea Potteries 3/9d. All the Scarbro shows of an evening & a Mystery drive 5 nights a week as well. My dad ran the office and coach park on promenade as well.
Happy Days.
Tony Boughton
30/10/11 – 06:22
Didn’t the West Street office become Aladdin’s Cave in the sixties?
Keith Easton
07/11/11 – 17:52
I am 80 and remember most of the bus Companys, Whites did have a Double Decker serving Flamborugh, Williamsons main terminal was Chapel street along side a Police Blue Box as in Dr Who etc etc
Bryan Carey
04/12/11 – 15:35
I remember the old Boddys coaches VBT191/192 and YXD12 from my childhood and probably travelled on them my father Bernard was a part time driver for them, he was a fire officer, the name at the top of this file Ken Wragg is familiar to me,I remember John Boddy and his son, also their operations Manager Bruce Gabbitas, I may have spelt his surname wrong! sadly my Father died a few years ago but it was nice to find these photos on the web, does anybody have any photos of Billy Richardsons garage in Quay Road or any of the old Priory Caravan factory behind Coggins Bakery in the Baylgate, I would be grateful if any were around.
Robin O’Connor
05/12/11 – 06:31
Hello again the garage in Havelock Crescent became R Belt & Sons a car repair shop and used car site, I used to go to school with one of the boys Boyd, he would be around 57 now, from memory it continued as a garage until the eighties, I left the town in 1984 and lost touch with developments, although I still visit the town to see family, from the photos it does not appear to have changed since those days, I do not remember the Sandown Cafe being a bus station, I remember it as the Sun Wah Chinese restaurant, it was later taken over by a couple I knew David & Davina Stevenson
Robin O’Connor
06/12/11 – 07:00
Hello all sorry to be taking over your site but as an ex Bridlington born person I can remember a lot of stuff being discussed and hope my comments clarify some points.in no particular order, John Boddys last taxi was a dark blue MK3 Ford Zephyr 4 he still had some taxi jobs despite his age, my Father did some jobs in this car for the company, I rode in it a few times. Despite his age John would not stop working, we arrived at the West street garage one evening to find John painting the garage doors, apparently the previous day he had to be stopped from climbing 20 feet or so up a ladder. There was mention that Dukes had the garage in Havelock Cres, it may be correct but I do not recall it, there was a Dukes garage at the other end of the Cres in Havelock Street, they were not the same Dukes that had Buckrose Motors. Corrigans scrap yard was on the left in Havelock place, it did have an entrance in Havelock Cres. I remembered Anfields coaches and taxis, their premises were where Higgs and Barkers Vauxhall Dealership is now, when Fred Barker first took it over I am sure they used the old Anfields workshop. My Mother who is 80 and still lives in Bridlington remembers Mrs Anfield, she said she used to sit outside the taxi office (which they retained after selling the coach side to Boddys)chain smoking whilst holding a Pekingese dog, apparently she used to breed them. She also remembers Whites coaches, her comment was they ran the buses to Flamborough and that they were parked by the toilets in Queen St. I am not a huge coach and bus fan but a friend of mine is, he used to work for Alexanders the Coachbuilders in Edinburgh. I hope this information is useful to somebody.
Robin O’Connor
07/12/11 – 06:59
Thanks Robin for the info some confirms what I said about Corrigans scrap yard location. I do remember your dad Bernard very well always fun to be with and he enjoyed coaching in those good days. Yes Keith Boddys office on West st was later Alladins cave and also Kirbys toy shop when he relocated from Chapel st keep the recollections coming every one please
Ken Wragg
07/12/11 – 17:15
Thanks for those kind words Ken, my Mother has told me she has a photo of VBT 191 OR 192 outside the Park Lane Hotel in London that I will put on the site when it is found, I suspect my Father took it when he took some rugby fans to a cup final, did you go on one of those trips with him? Which coach hit the wall by the pond in Burton Agnes? I know who was driving it but I will not put it in print to save him any embarrassment but his initials were JG.
Robin O’Connor
08/12/11 – 06:47
I did all sorts of coach work in my time but as I had no interest in rugby or footy I was lucky to have other trips to do and spalding flower parade was on the same w/end as the rugby final so I usually went there. The coach that collided with the wall at burton agnes was FDB 571 which I took to Norths scrapyard following an engine change with RWF 785 in OCT 79
Ken Wragg
27/01/12 – 10:35
Just been reading the interesting comments posted here by a Mr Ian Gibbs and note that one of the statements relates to TOOTH & WADDINGTON, ie
It was never a rink when I knew it but it had been the premises of a 1920s Bus Firm Called Tooth & Waddington (They had 3 different owners but no space here for all that saga.)
I’m currently researching my grandad Thomas William Trown’s history of living in Bridlington and believe he may have worked for (Trown) Tooth, Waddington, any one with any more information please.
Garry Trown
29/05/12 – 17:26
Does anyone recall a bus driver by the name of William Isacc Morris Walker, who resided in Pinfold St., Bridlington. He was born in N. Ireland in 1914 and died in Bridlington in January 1998.
S. Arthur
30/05/12 – 07:15
Morris Walker lived on Pinfold St Brid as you say and was working on EYMS buses in 1966 when I started on the buses he was always smartly dressed as all EYMS staff were expected to be he was on the one man bus rota and also did Yorkshire services in summer
Ken Wragg
30/05/12 – 13:26
Well chaps its almost time for our local Bridlington rally again its on Sunday 10 June and starts in East Park in Hull and ends up at Sewerby fields on the cliff top in Bridlington hope you can make it.
Ken Wragg
24/08/12 – 15:39
Such an entertaining site especially due to the fact that much of this info refers to my Anfield relatives, my father being Jack Anfield died 1956 when I was 14. I am now living in the South and I would be delighted if anyone on this website has any memories and a photograph of my beloved late father. I am pleased to make contact through this site as it brings back memories to me of my childhood.
Pam Ellis (nee Anfield)
28/09/12 – 14:23
Having acquired an old destination bus blind I thought I would do a little research to see if I could date the blind more accurately than 1950/60 and Google pointed me to your superb website. I have to say that I never expected passing a couple of hours contemplating the history of buses and their destination history. Captivating. My blind does seem to relate to a comment/question from Patrick Hooper: “No service to Thornwick Bay ever operated in my lifetime, and indeed the side road to Thornwick Bay was hardly up to bus operation and there was nowhere to turn a bus round when you got there. Did such a service ever operate before the war? Or was one planned but never materialised? “ My blind has the header “HULL WITHERNSEA EXPRESS” and contains all of Patrick’s mentioned destination plus many more; all of them are of a personal interest as childhood memories,: BEEFORD, ULROME, SKIPSEA, HORNSEA ot mention a few. The Header also contains the following information: Buses 508. 519. Manufacturers Whitlay Tool Co. Bin 3965 HOLLYM. Town Center-Waxholme Rd. Whitlay as a company were dissolved in 1968. Another pointer to dating might be the Destination HULL HEDON Via Marfleet Saltend Aerodrome Entrance, as I understand the Aerodrome became a speedway circuit in the late forties early 50s but only lasted a year or so however the destination, Aerodrome Entrance could have carried on for years. I could put up photos of the blind if required. Just wondered if an answer to Patrick’s query helped with my dating. Either way it’s all become an interesting and nostalgic journey, including your site.
Steve Gregory
29/09/12 – 07:24
The Thornwick Bay Service was originated by Archer Robinson in the early 1920’s as a branch off his Bridlington-Flamborough service. He owned the cafe at Thornwick Bay. His business passed to East Yorkshire Motor Services in September 1929-presumably they continued the service as long as it remained profitable. Hedon Speedway was operating from March 1948 to August 1949. I don’t think that there would have been any reason to have the Aerodrome Entrance on a destination blind after 1949.
David Hick
29/09/12 – 12:32
Hello David – you may be surprised to hear that, even in 1955/6 when I was in the RAF at Patrington, the intermediate destination blinds in the 1946 onwards Leyland PD1 double deckers (gorgeous legendary vehicles) on the Hull – Withernsea service displayed: AERODROME HEDON PATRINGTON Such happy days – oh, and the ECW rebodied Leyland TDs which provided Saturday night duplicates from Hull depot, with identical displays………..
Chris Youhill
02/10/12 – 15:25
The EYMS timetable for Summer 1948 lists Thornwick Bay in its alphabetical list of places served and the map actually shows Thornwick Bay as one of three legs after Flamborough (Lighthouse, North Landing and Thornwick Bay). The service was no. 28 (which, of course, was not displayed on the blinds)and the timetable quotes Ye Olde Thornwick Hotel some two minutes after leaving Flamborough and three minutes before arriving at North Landing. Buses to the Lighthouse did not call there. The frequency was roughly hourly, the last journey from Bridlington being at 10 30 p.m.. The Winter 1950/1 timetable has the same service but the map omits Thornwick Bay. Sometime in the 1950s references to Thornwick Bay disappeared. The 1940 timetable also contains references to Thornwick bay but the service was very restricted owing to wartime conditions. Does this add to the confusion? A Bridlington book would be a great asset. My family holidayed at Sewerby and Barmston in the 1950s and I have many memories of EYMS and the White Bus Company.
Malcolm J Wells
24/06/13 – 12:06
I am Gt Gt Granddaughter of John Williamson who founded the Bridlington Bus company. He and his family were all involved in different aspects of the business. Horse dealing and beach donkeys was the work of my Gt Grandfather Thomas, but his older brother Robert and youngest brother Reuben worked on the buses as bus/carriage drivers. Another brother Reed had a livery stable on Market Place and was a horse breaker. John Knaggs worked for Reuben Williamson and Reuben was summoned under the Elementary Schools Act for employing John Knaggs before the end of term. My father said the horses used to launch the life-boat. Not only were John’s sons involved in the business but also grandsons too. My Grandfather in 1909 is identified on his marriage certificate as a carriage driver. He married into the Pant family. John Wm Pant was a cartman in the town as was his uncle and grandfather. The Bridlington Free Press describes John as a popular man who started working life as a mariner plying the Baltic. He was involved in the Crimean War and the Battle of Sebastopol where he was taken a prisoner. Whilst in Russia he learnt to speak some Russian despite the fact that the conditions were desperate. On returning home he set up as a shoe-dealer. Around 1881 he set up his son Robert as a bus proprietor.
Cathy Goldthorpe
03/12/13 – 06:18
Read with interest the comments on old coaches my father John drove for EYMS for 39yrs and drove the first London Birmingham service from Brid two new Leyland Tigers or Leopards in yellow PAT 1 and PAT 2 registration I can still remember at 70 my dad getting ready to go with his small brown overnight case and saying I hope I have PAT 1 because it was 6 miles an hour faster than PAT 2 on the A1 I wonder what happened to them.
Keith Symonds
04/12/13 – 07:14
EYMS had 15 Willowbrook bodied Leyland Tiger Cubs registered PAT408-421
David Hick
14/12/13 – 07:38
Reading all the interesting comments about all the old bus companies got me thinking was there a Chadwicks in Bridlington
Keith Symonds
02/11/14 – 07:17
To clear things up about Trown, Tooth & Waddington in Bridlington, the partnership first operated buses on two services in the town in January 1922 Belvedere to the Market Place and a Circular service from the Promenade. The trading name was variously ‘Bridlington & District Motor Services’ and ‘The Red Bus Service’ further services were added to Flamborough (5/22), Driffield (6/22) & Bempton (3/23) the depot was located at Alexandra Garage on the Promenade which was also the home of the business of motor engineers which they ran. In December 1923 Tooth & Waddington (Motor Services) Ltd was formed to take over bus operations of the partnership. The fleet at the end of 1922 was 7 AECs (2x42st dd, 1x46st dd & 4 30 seat saloons), no registrations except a dd BT 5288. In January 1925 the operations of the company and its vehicles were acquired by Archor Robinson. Two toastracks were owned by Robinson by 5/25 so these were presumably the two Leylands BT 7268/9 that were new to T&W in May 1924.
Mike Pearson
01/12/14 – 09:55
In the early 50s my brother and I played in Anfields yard Bridlington, we jacked up the coaches and let them down with a bang whilst friends sat inside. Great fun!
David Carass
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
14/07/15 – 06:19
Even though this is not my subject, this site is so interesting. I was born in Bridlington in 1948 and all I can add to this site is a child’s memory of Anfield’s garage. I spent many a happy hour in the early 50’s secretly playing in these buses, covered in oil and grease much to the dismay of my mother. It is quite correct that the business was located on a corner of Quay Road; I recall there was a gas company showroom on the opposite corner just before the level crossings. The picture of the front of the business onto Quay Road was adjoined by three or four terrace houses of greater antiquity than any in the neighbourhood, abandoned with all their contents still inside. I gathered that they were evacuated and never refurbished after they were damaged in an air raid on the nearby gas works in WW2. The road between did indeed lead to the back entrance to Moorfield’s School. The picture of the yard at the back of the office does not show many buses but, in my time, probably a couple of years later it was full of old buses right up to the yard entrance in Moorfield Road and were already old even by the standards of my time. I also recall an old London style taxi cab parked there that still had a working bulb horn that must place it in the 1920’s or earlier. I look forward to reading any new additions to this site.
Photographer unknown – if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.
H W Hunter and Sons 1962 AEC Reliance 2MU3RV Plaxton Highway B45F
Still with H W Hunter. Looking a bit grubby with the days road dirt still wet, VTY 360 was new to Hunter’s in April 1962 and was their second AEC 2MU3RV Plaxton Highwayman B45F, the first being TJR 573 delivered in May the previous year. If my records are correct it was also the last new single deck bus they ever bought. In common with many bus/coach operators they still purchased a couple of new coaches, but rather than buses they opted D/Ps which gave them a far greater degree of flexibility as to how they could utilize them, one result was that ‘certainly in this area’ they were possibly the first to use Volvo’s on ordinary stage carriage work.
Thanks for posting, Ronnie. Would I be right in thinking this was the Plaxton answer to the BET standard design?
Pete Davies
05/02/13 – 16:31
Plaxton tended to plough their own furrow and didn’t get terribly BET until the Derwent. I was told, or read, that the Highway was based on Roe’s standard underfloor single deck design.
David Oldfield
06/02/13 – 07:19
Thank you, David.
Pete Davies
06/02/13 – 07:19
I don’t find myself aware of any echoes of Roe design here – their roughly contemporary design tended still to have a flat cantrail panel above the windows, in the style of this Sheffield bus www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/one Was there however some influence from the Leyland Royal Tiger bus, with the inset window pans and the chrome flash right round the bus at headlight level? www.old-bus-photos.co.uk/two
Alan Murray-Rust
06/02/13 – 08:40
Source “Plaxton – 100 years” (Stewart J Brown). The Highway was introduced in 1957 at the request of OK Motor Services and based on a contemporary Roe design….. (illustrated in the book on page 37).
David Oldfield
07/02/13 – 14:02
David the original Derwent design as used by West Riding was a heavy looking bus with a very plain front there are shots of it on www.sct61.org.uk
Chris Hough
08/02/13 – 09:05
Yes Chris, that’s what happens when you’re imprecise with your use of language. I am aware of that – the Derwent in it’s time had a number of incarnations. Sorry for being lazy!
Sheffield United Tours 1968 AEC Reliance 6U3ZR Plaxton C45F
Definitely not taken on a tour, this is PMT Stoke No1 Garage underneath the Essex bus washing machine on 19th April 1970. PMT was going through a reliability crisis and amongst other vehicles (see Birmingham 2252 elsewhere on this site) hired in some coaches from Sheffield United Tours in their very elegant red/grey livery which well suited the lines of the Panorama body. The ex Forces Humber 4×4 recovery truck known to everyone as “Daffodil” is just visible on the left of the picture. This was a bit light for towing buses and tended to be pushed around when doing so.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
19/01/14 – 08:25
A number of minor firsts here for SUT. First 6U3ZRs (AH691) as opposed to 2U3RAs (AH590). First illuminated name panels – which arguably cheapened the image. Change from blue interior (which was only for a year anyway) to autumn gold. Superb coaches, and the last in the line of Panoramas before the era of the Panorama Elite. The new era would also herald the arrival of 12m coaches but also the reappearance of medium weight 6MU3R (AH505)coaches for duties where a 40’00″ long heavyweight would be just too much.
Economic Bus Service 1962 Economic AEC Reliance 4MU3RA Plaxton B55F
The fad for changing registrations – for whatever reason – strikes again. 8031 PT is a 1962 AEC Reliance 4MU3RA with Plaxton B55F body, built for Economic of Whitburn, Tyneside We see in the rear view that there is an alternative plate, WNL 259A. Seen in Showbus at Duxford on 28 September 2008.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies
22/09/15 – 07:11
There has to be reason for this registration change, rather than a fad. Surely no owner would want to despoil their vehicle in this manner. If any owner does not keep up the Road Fund Licence on the vehicle or declare SORN, then its registration can easily be lost and if thats were the case, its nigh on impossible to reclaim it as the DVLA would then only issue an Age Related Mark, as we see here. Perhaps there is another reason but I think this the most likely.
Mike Norris
22/09/15 – 13:48
Mike, thank you for your comment. I was thinking in particular of those operators who change their normal UK registration to a Northern Ireland one, or a so-called ‘cherished’ one to disguise the age of the vehicle, rather than those which have been off the road for some while.
Pete Davies
22/09/15 – 13:49
I always thought that small coach operators did this to disguise a second (or third…) hand vehicle bought with a year letter. Plaxton or Van Hool bodies did not otherwise date a lot (for example) and this is why we had so many seemingly N.Irish registered coaches. This has rebounded a bit here as A regs were I think, quite rare?
Joe
23/09/15 – 06:42
“A” reg (1963) was quite rare because only a limited number of Counties or Boroughs had run out of registrations. Some more came on board with year letters in ’64 and the year letter “C” (’65) was the first year when it became universal.
John Lomas
23/09/15 – 06:44
The re-registration might not have had anything to do with the preservationist who I”m pretty sure would have considered the original registration to have been very much the “fabric” of his/her pride and joy. Mike is correct regarding the non-use of a registration number renders it lost. The original registration of this bus would have been worth a reasonable amount of money and may have been sold and re-used on another vehicle before the bus was sold into preservation and as a result, without tracing the current owner of the plate and paying a princely sum to buy it back, they would have to settle for what DVLA would assign – like the “A” suffix plate now carried. Another option, if one didn”t like the latter style, would be to perhaps try and buy a lower cost dateless plate the likes of which are often seen in magazine and newspaper adverts and on the internet. WSV*** plates can be seen on preserved vans and cars. These look near enough right and in keeping with those types of vehicle but in the bus world they are second best because the enthusiast world knows a lot more about what registration numbers are what. (As I write I have just searched on the internet for a “low cost” dateless registration plate and see that it would be around £600-700 for a number plate with an “X” in it like 790 XUU (not as widely sough after as initials as there are few personal names beginning with “X” and “U” I suppose). Quite a lot of London Routemaster number plates were sold during the latter days of those buses being in service. I used to regularly see a couple of big and shiny BMW cars bearing plates once carried by Routemasters (456 CLT and VLT 115 if I recall correctly which would be from RMC1456 and RM 115 respectively). If a preservationist had for example bought one of those re-registered buses the true number would now be in the hands of a private user and unless the preservationist could track down the current owner of the plate, have substantial cash and then do a good deal, he/she would have to settle on a near alternative. (As I write I have just searched on the internet for a VLT registration and see that VLT 71 from former RM71 is available for £4275! The same site has VLT 10, VLT 17 and VLT 259 available but you have to call in for a price – that suggests they will cost quite a few quid!!) A possible example of settling for a close alternative, although I am not sure if I am correct with my assumption, is the preserved former Northern General Routemaster RCN 699 which became PCN 762. See //www.nebpt.co.uk/index.asp?pg=31 which states that “This vehicle originally carried registration number RCN 699. It was re-registered as EDS 508B and later given the number it now carries, PCN 762, another Gateshead registration from the same period”. A modern day commercial coach operator wishing to disguise the true age of a coach would be able to buy a quite low cost Northern Ireland plate from the aforementioned website for only £49. This is peanuts to them really if it means that the passengers don”t then know just how old the coach they have hired really is. It is true to say that one of the prime reasons for operators putting dateless number plates on their vehicles was/is because the public would moan like nobody”s business if anything other than “this year”s coach” turned up for them even though it might have cost around £300k or maybe more only a few months before. Adding a £600-700 “XUU” plate on such a vehicle is worthwhile (but perhaps it should be left until the current year number is old hat). Park”s of Hamilton is an operator that has been into dateless number plates in a very big way for many years. Their collection of “HSK” plates has been used over and over. Is it me or does the current system of using year identifier numbers like 14, 54, 15, 55, 16 etc not have quite the same impact as it used to when we used “year letters”?
David Slater
23/09/15 – 06:44
Answer to mystery of registration plate 8031 PT/WNL 259A. The history of this coach is new to Economic Sunderland in 1962 spent its entire service life with them. Coach was sold to local Tyneside Jazz Band where the original registration was unfortunately sold on, date unknown no known name of purchaser either. In 1985 coach was purchased by Purvis Brothers of Seaburn Sunderland ( Alan & John ) it was restored in 1989 -1994. A photo during restoration dated 1991 shows coach with registration of WNL259A. The plate being white with Black lettering and numbers in another of Peter Davis previous posting this figuration of number plate was raised. After restoration and later shown on the rally circuit coach is next seen in 1997 at Wetherby here it is showing the registration plate 8031PT a black plate with White lettering and numbers. At a show at Seaburn Sunderland in 2006 the coach was in ownership of Robin Hawdon of Gainsborough showing WNL 259A ( Ex 8031PT) from which no further details can be found. It would appear and it is only assumption that the plate seen on the coach at Wetherby 8031PT was to show coach as it was originally however as the Purvis Brothers drove their restored coaches to shows this would clearly show to be incorrect assumption.Well known in the preservation society the brothers may well have repurchased the registration whilst retaining WNL259A this enabling them to interchange plates.
Alan Coulson
24/09/15 – 05:58
From information I have about this bus it is reregistered WNL 259A & displays this when on the road to rallies & the owners have 8031 PT plates which are temporarily fixed when off the public highway, I saw it at Wakefield in 2013 with 8031 PT on the front & WNL 259A on the rear!
Keith Clark
24/09/15 – 05:58
One other thought, prompted by something Alan wrote, was that during the time the former Northern General Routemaster carried EDS 508B as its official registration for use on the roads, that plate was covered up with a ‘display plate’ bearing its original number RCN 699 whilst on show at a rally. It might be the same situation with regard to the Economic bus seen at the Sunderland rally in 2006 perhaps displaying 8031 PT on a ‘show plate’.
David Slater
24/09/15 – 05:58
Thank you for your further comments, folks.
Pete Davies
24/09/15 – 16:12
Yes, it shows PT on the front . . .
Pete Davies
24/09/15 – 16:13
Today 24/Sept/15 I have found photo of 8031PT showing to Hoults’ of Newport, East Yorkshire more research is needed if found I will post ASAP may fit in between Byker Jazz Band and Purvis restoration coach is seen in same livery. I ask does anyone know of Hoults, in picture it looks like it could be used as building contractors bus or a owner driver ferrying coal miners.
Alan Coulson
25/09/15 – 06:26
8031 PT did pass to Holt of Newport in October 1976 and was used as a PSV by Holt until July 1977. I saw it stored with DTE 772B in the Gilberdyke area circa 1978/9. I have a note of DTE being noted under tow in York in February 1979.
David Hick
25/09/15 – 06:27
Alan, 8031PT was with J.A.Holt (Holt’s Coaches) of Main Street, Newport, Brough, East Yorkshire until 1978 when it passed to Byker & St Peter’s Jazz Band. It was re-registered to WNL295A in January 1985, the month that it was acquired by the Purvis brothers. The registration 8031PT is currently on a Nissan X-Trail, presumably owned by someone with the initials PT. I would guess that the PT registration was sold when it was with the Jazz Band, and that the Purvis brothers had to apply for the WNL-A registration in order to get it back on the road.
Dave Farrier
26/09/15 – 05:57
Transdev Keighley are in the process of upgrading the vehicles designated for the 662 Shuttle Service (Keighley – Bradford) and as well as interior re-furb Wi-Fi etc they have applied a pleasing blue livery and re-registered this 2005 batch with Northern Ireland plates bearing all or part of their fleet numbers. On a separate subject I also note that they seem to have abandoned the constantly scrolling destination screen displays opting for a simple fixed ultimate destination in most cases other than on service 66 to Skipton which has a scrolling message advertising the newly increase frequency.
Gordon Green
28/09/15 – 07:05
David Hick/Dave Farrier. Thank you for your notes. David the photo I saw see’s 8031 on snow covered ground in Chucklebuster photostream date unknown. I have asked for date/place, a dealers yard maybe. Coach is next to OBE 582E showing to McMasters albeit in a distressed state (OBE) that is. BLOTW, under the More button is 73 photo’s of 0831 PT also listed as Everyone’s photo’s. Northernblue109 shows a fictional image of this coach to a PTE Tyne & Wear in Yellow livery. David/Dave from your notes I suspect photo in Chucklebusters to be dated pre-1978 as it went to Holts in October 1976 thus giving indication of when photo was taken,I am awaiting confirmation of exact date.
Alan Coulson
23/08/17 – 06:14
The Registration 8031 PT according to DVLA now belongs to a Nissan Made & Registered in 2011. Hope this helps.
Bob Lovelock
23/08/17 – 10:23
On this topic, how does our 1962 Ribble Titan – this week’s star bus- carry an unreversed six digit registration when other offices were near the end of their two reversed series. Was trade slow in Preston or did Ribble have an arrangement?
Joe
24/08/17 – 06:48
In answer to Joe, Preston County Borough as it was then, were using UCK early in 1964, when some other authorities, including Lancashire County Council (also based in Preston) had already used ‘A’ suffix registrations. Soon after the UCK, Preston went on to ‘ACK…B’, as in the Ribble Panther ACK 774B seen elsewhere in these columns. I was never aware that Ribble had the sort of ‘arrangement’ that is sometimes said of other operators.
Pete Davies
24/08/17 – 10:27
The interesting bit, Pete, is that many other authorities had, by 1963, rotated through the reversed cycle 1234 CK and 123 ACK to 9999 and 999! Preston hadn’t it seems got off first base? Perhaps the registration experts have a view…!
Joe
25/08/17 – 06:48
I am aware, Joe, that some of the Scottish authorities were still using the two letters then four numbers arrangement in 1964. Yes, I hope some of the registration experts on here are able to enlighten us.
Pete Davies
26/08/17 – 07:09
Well you’ve set us thinking Joe. Up here in Yorkshire Bradford issued YKW in December 1962, closely followed by YKY in February 1963 and reversed KW in April 1963. Huddersfield reached YCX in April 1963 followed by YVH in June the same year, whereas neighbouring Halifax had only reached TCP by November 1963, with TJX being issued from February 1964.
Brendan Smith
27/08/17 – 06:56
Halifax did just start issuing UCP after TJX but then almost immediately moved to ACP-B. I remember regularly seeing a blue Morris Minor 1000 registered UCP 15 but it was not only the highest UCP I ever noted, but also the only UCP I ever saw too, so there can’t have been many more.
John Stringer
27/08/17 – 06:58
Further to the 2 letters and 4 numbers question. I can find the following authorities which were still issuing in such a format. AS Nairn 1-4097 BS Orkney 1-7777 DS Peebles 1-6396 LS Selkirk 1-9584 NS Sutherland 1-5683 PS Zetland 1-4080 SL Clackmannan 1-9602 A number of authorities were still issuing 2 letters and 4 numbers up to the end of 1963 when they changed over to issuing suffix marks. Bute was one of these who had got to SJ 2860 before commencing suffix marks on 2nd January 1964. SV Kinross was another which got to 3722 before commencing suffix marks on 2nd January 1964. There were others. I hope this helps.
Stephen Howarth
29/08/17 – 06:41
Further to Brendan, above, Huddersfield were one of a handful of authorities which were permitted to commence year suffix registrations rather than start on reverse issues. That accounts for the unusual start date of 28/8/63 instead of the first working day of a month.
David Call
30/08/17 – 08:00
Other Authorities which commenced issuing Suffix marks at other than the start of the month were Middlesex 18/2/63, Plymouth 12/9/1963, and Oxfordshire 6/11/1963. As the Suffix system got in to full swing during 1964 authorities like Blackburn 28/1/1964, Monmouth 27/2/1964, Worcester 9/6/1964, Holland 10/7/1964, and Grimsby 24/7/1964 started at dates other than the start of the month. 20 Authorities started issuing on 4/8/1964 for some reason, perhaps it was a Bank Holiday. From then on things settled down with 16 authorities commencing on 1/9/1964, ending the ‘B’ suffix mark. 21 offices completed the process with ‘C’ marks on 1/1/1965 never having issued ‘A’ or ‘B’ marks.
Stephen Howarth
31/08/17 – 04:53
I’ve noticed the DVLA are issuing a lot of age related plates with an FT (Tynemouth) index. They are generally number first, then whatever, FT. In actual fact, Tynemouth never got as far as reversed number, letter plates
Ronnie Hoye
23/12/18 – 06:56
I have owned and rallied this bus since 2006 and I regularly explain to people about the registration number. So instead of all the speculation and criticism why don’t you just ask me?
Robin Hawdon
23/12/18 – 08:32
Come on then Robin put them all out of their misery
Roger Burdett
25/12/18 – 07:26
I spent the Spring, Summer and Autumn near Stranraer, Wigtownshire, in 1958. At some point during this period, registrations went from OS 9999 to AOS 1.
Chris Hebbron
26/12/18 – 07:37
It was quite common in the 1980’s particularly among the hippy/traveller community to sell off valuable number plates. They were not bothered about keeping the bus/coach authentic, but putting a bit of cash in their pockets for ‘wacky baccy’. 8031 PT got replaced with WNL 259A (a Northumberland mark)in 1985, presumably the Byker Jazz Band needed a few £’s in their coffers, the original reg. number would have meant nothing to them, just an old bus to get them to gigs. The DVLA always issue an age related replacement number plate at the time of transfer, (vehicles are never left un-registered) in this case an un-issued 1983 A plate. As someone has already stated, only a few larger cities issued A suffix registrations, mainly London. At the time WNL259A was issued the DVLA used ones relating to the area where the vehicle was owned/kept at the time of transfer, now it can be from any area in the UK mainland. So unless the owner can trace the current owner of the original registration and buy it back (that may be a considerable sum assuming owner would sell) you are stuck with an age related replacement. One (much cheaper) solution is to fit the original plates to the bus whilst for show purposes at rallies.
John Wakefield
29/12/20 – 10:00
I don’t know if anyone is still reading this post but my dad bought 8031 PT registration back in 1985 and has owned it ever since. It was bought off a band who wanted to raise funds (presumably the band mentioned previously) and was put on a Nissan Micra. It has subsequently been on 2 other Micras, a Ford Fiesta (all of which were driving school cars), a Ford Mondeo and 2 Nissan X-Trails. I doubt my dad would sell the plate but I will try to contact the coach owner if ever he does, it would be nice for it to return to its original home.
Matt Tolley
29/12/20 – 14:05
Matt. People do read the thread.
Roger Burdett
29/12/20 – 14:06
In his post of 26/12/2018 John Wakefield states that WNL 259A was an unissued 1983 mark. Surely be means an unissued 1963 mark?
