A handful of Percy Main’s service vehicles carried the Wakefields name, and we’ve seen a couple of examples, but we turn now to the other side of their operations, they also had a superb fleet of coaches. I don’t think it ever exceeded twenty in number, but they were always immaculately presented and meticulously maintained. Up to the late 50’s, most of the coaches were laid up during the in winter months, but with the growing popularity of Northern’s Express service routes, and demand for seats often exceeding supply, the practice of de-licensing was discontinued, and Wakefields vehicles could frequently be found working these routes as duplicates ‘on hire’ to Northern.
Although these weren’t Wakefields first coaches, I cant trace any earlier vehicles. They had eight of these hansom Duple Coronation C30F coaches. Four 1938 Leyland Tiger TS8’s – FT 4544/7 – 104/7; and four AEC Regals – FT 49?? – 108/111 from 1939. They had long lives and remained in service until 1954. Many quality pre-war chassis were rebodied in the late 40’s and early 50’s but I do not know if these were. The Leylands spent some of the war years in Ireland with the Northern Ireland Transport Board
These Beadle bodies were popular with many BET group companies, most were built on refurbished pre war chassis, usually AEC or Leyland, and that was certainly the case with ten of NGT’s. However, from as early as 1923, NGT had a number of vehicles built on their own chassis. From 1951/3 a total of 43 vehicles were built on chassis classified as NGT/AEC, they were numbered 132/174, I’m not sure if NGT built the chassis from scratch or just refurbished them, but they had AEC running gear and A173 engines. 37 were bodied by Picktree to NGT designs, the service vehicles were affectionately know as ‘Kipper boxes’ In 1952, six of the chassis 143-48 were bodied by Beadle as FC35F, and allocated to Percy Main, they were FT 7275/80 – 175/80. Two more arrived in 1953, FT 7791/2 – 191/2, but I can’t find a chassis listing for them, so it is possible they may have been rebodies. They were FC39F and classed as D/P’s, the fronts were slightly different with less bright trim and a number section on the destination layout. At the time the first six were delivered the predominant colour for the coach fleet was red, but the livery later reverted to this familiar cream layout.
Too much reflection on the photo I’m afraid
To my mind, the Weymann Fanfare was one of the most handsome coach bodies ever built. Percy Main had six of these superb vehicles, they were C41F on AEC Reliance MU3RV chassis, FT 8997 – FT 9002 – 197/202; all delivered in 1955
Another four AEC Reliance 2MU3RV – EFT 550/53 – 250/53, with C41F Burlingham Seagull bodies, arrived on the scene in 1961, I know they’re not the classic Seagull of a decade earlier, but they still had an air of superiority about them, and personally, I liked them. They were eventually transferred to Northern and used as D/P’s
1963, was the year Percy Main’s last new ‘coaches’ arrived in the form of two C41F Plaxton Embassy II Bedford SB5’s HFT 264/5 – 264/5. I think Sunderland District also had some of these, but I am not aware of any others in the group.
Wakefields last throw of the dice came in 1968, with the arrival of four PSU3A/4R Leyland Leopard’s with C47F Alexander ‘Y’ bodies; EFT 703/4F – 303/4; and GFT 805/6G – 305/6. When not engaged on private hire or excursion work, they were frequently to be found working as duplicates on Northern express routes, okay, this one is carrying a days worth of road dirt, but its clear from its general appearance that it’s a long way from being scruffy or neglected, like all NGT group coaches they were always immaculately turned out and meticulously maintained
What I am about to say next, is my own personal opinion, and is based on my observations and experiences as a driver at Percy Main from 1967 to 1975.
Perhaps I am guilty of looking through rose tinted spectacles, we know BET and Tilling group companies were not perfect; and there is always room for improvement, but their vehicles were always well cared for and maintained to a very high standard. Always fearful of the wrath of the area Traffic Commissioners, the public service they provided, was usually of an equally high calibre. Fast forward to 1973, the Wakefields name has completely disappeared, and the four Alexander ‘Y’ types are all that remains of the once glorious coach fleet. Express service, private hire and excursion work has been transferred to National Travel, and now that the lunatics are running the asylum, former Tilling and BET group companies no longer have control over their destiny. Bright trim and badges have become an unnecessary drain on recourses. NBC has a virtual monopoly, so Public Service and pride in the fleet have become outdated and unimportant value that are surplus to requirements. The new regimes accountants, to quote Oscar Wilde, “know the price of everything and the value of nothing” as a result vehicles look sad and uncared for, the disease of apathy complacency and neglect has become a pandemic, and the company initials of NBC have become an acronym for ‘NoBody Cares’. Look at 304’s sister, as well as a change of name and livery, the wheel embellishments, Leopard badge and other bits and pieces of trim are all missing, in all probability, if any of the seat cushions have been replaced the upholstery does not match the original. The former NGT group were not alone, and the general impression that NBC vehicles project is one of couldn’t care less. It makes me so sad when I look back to when these vehicles first came to Percy Main and proudly carried the Wakefields name.
This is as far as we can go, the arrival of the AN68 has still to come, but the curse of the MK I Leyland National is already upon us. Wholesale fleet changes are taking place, with some vehicles moving from one end of the Country to the other. Among others, vehicles from as far a field as East Kent and Maidstone and District were reallocated to the NGT group. The Tynemouth name survived until 1975, but then, along with all the other Northern group subsidiaries, it became a memory.
Ronnie Hoye
09/2013
01/10/13 – 06:30
A first class series of articles and brilliantly illustrated. Brought back many memories of trips to Geordie relatives in the 1950s and 1960s and of regularly working in the area as a rep in the late 1960s. The ubiquitous exhortation to “Shop at Binns”, the variety of colour schemes and the Orion bodied Guys all made an impression on my childhood mind and the photos helped bring them back to life. The 1960s Burlingham Seagull photo reminded me of a comment I heard many years ago something like “the only thing Seagull about that thing are the “wings” on the front panel”. I thought that it was rather a handsome body though perhaps the front was a little overdone.
Phil Blinkhorn
01/10/13 – 08:34
Superb article, Ronnie, and an excellent array of photographs. Your assessment of NBC is spot on. (Personal view it may be but accurate it certainly is). In part two you question whether the 1953 Guys were Aurora or Orion. All your photographs are of Orions. NO Aurora (genuine originals, nor the later front loaders) would have been half finished rattle traps. As a Burlingham fan and lover of the original Seagull, I too have a soft spot for the Seagull 70. Question? You say they were MU3RV. Are you sure they weren’t 2MU3RV? That would have been more usual for that year. The 2MU3RV was introduced in 1959.
David Oldfield
02/10/13 – 08:54
The photo of the Marshall Camair bodied Panther reminds me of the 1968 Commercial Motor Show at which a Northern all red Camair was on display. Its rather “different” looks were the subject of much comment but the one I remember best was “which silly B****r specified those” as the speaker pointed to the random pattern of flowers (roses if I remember rightly) which adorned the ceiling. I never travelled on one in service so I don’t know if the show bus was a one off but the possible reaction of the north eastern miners, shipwrights and dockers, if the flowers were a standard feature, had obviously struck the man.
Phil Blinkhorn
02/10/13 – 10:03
Regarding the ‘roses on the ceiling’ I seem to recall that, at the same time, Sunderland District had a few saloons painted in what was described as a ‘psychedelic’ interior style, with assorted random blobs of paint scattered around in some sort of pattern.
David Todd
03/10/13 – 08:41
Indeed a great series of photos and some interesting research. Some of the photos in the article appear to have been taken as the buses came out of the factory, as they don’t have “Shop at Binns” painted on them yet.
Paul Robson
04/10/13 – 06:23
You’re probably right, Paul. The memory may be playing tricks, but I seem to think that when the 1967&8 Alexander bodied Daimler Fleetlines arrived, they were fully painted, but the name fleet numbers and the ‘Shop at Binns’ logo Etc, weren’t put on until after they had their PDI inspection.
Ronnie Hoye
09/10/13 – 12:11
Thanks Ronnie for your 3 part History fo Tynemouth and District Transport Company and Wakefields Motors. I travelled to school for 7 years on many of these old well-kept favourites along the Coast Road and the Alexander bodied Fleetlines were all time favourites although I did have a soft spot for 280 and 240! I can still remember nearly all the fleetnumbers and registrations and used to visit Percy Main to see if any new additions had arrived. Sadly a big part of my life back in the day…
Tom Carr
10/10/13 – 15:19
Sorry, David, I’ve just caught up with your comments. You’re right, the Seagulls were 2MU3RV’s. Oy blum moy luck uve tripeing sculls, either that, or I just plain got it wrong.
Ronnie Hoye
Copy changed
10/10/13 – 17:47
Ronnie, you should never admit the lack of typing skills. Always blame your Chinese secretary – Ty Po!
Anon
15/10/13 – 08:39
Did Wakefields’ have separate Cap/Uniform badges like Tynemouth, Tyneside, SDO, and Northern?
Stephen Howarth
15/10/13 – 11:30
The answer to your question, Stephen, is yes, but only sometimes. All the NGT group uniforms were the same, they were a double-breasted military style with epaulets and had BET buttons, however, from memory, I think the colour of the piping and embroidered name on the collars was different. Northern and Tynemouth were red, SDO were blue and Tyneside green, I can’t remember what Gateshead was. On stage carriage work, all Percy Main crews wore Tynemouth uniforms, however, until about the mid 60’s, those drivers who had become regulars on the coach roster were issued with a second similar uniform in a dark maroon colour, to be used only when they were on coach work. I seem to remember that the piping and Wakefields name were in gold. All the uniforms were restyled ‘cheaper’ in the mid sixties, they became single breasted with no epaulets and plain buttons, and Wakefields uniforms were discontinued. Indecently, drivers and conductors had different overcoats; they both had a white half band about 4 or 5 inches up one of the sleeves, but drivers were on the right arm, and a conductor on the left. I was told that this was a throwback to the days before buses had indicators and hand signals were used, the reason a conductor had the band on the left was that at certain junctions they were expected to stand on the platform and give a left turn signal.
Ronnie Hoye
17/10/13 – 06:52
Thanks Ronnie for the full and comprehensive information on Wakefield’s uniforms. I take it from that they never had a Cap Badge, but insignia embroidered on to the collar of the tunic.
Stephen Howarth
22/10/13 – 09:59
I seem to remember a ‘ghost sign’ on a rather dilapidated garage on Albion Road North Shields opposite Christ Church which read ‘Wakefields Motors’ and I always wondered if that was an early depot before sharing the Tynemouth depot at Percy Main. The sign was written in feint white paint! I think I remember rightly…
Tom Carr
23/10/13 – 15:44
You’re quite correct, Tom, Wakefields depot was in North Shields. The entrance was in Church Way, which is just off Albion Road. I assume it became vacant in 1933 when the vehicles were moved to Percy Main.
Ronnie Hoye
24/10/13 – 11:55
Thanks for that and your excellent history of the bus companies from the perspective of a former driver. As a passenger I must have travelled thousands of miles on Service 11 later the 306 and have many fond memories of 236 breaking down outside of the Wills Factory.
Tom Carr
31/10/13 – 17:34
A terrific article. The distinctive livery of the buses gave Tynemouth a bit of identity, unlike today when the county borough has long been swallowed up by North Tyneside. Having lived in the North Shields area all my life, I must have travelled many miles on Tynemouth and Wakefields buses, and for a short time in 1970 or 1971 I was one of a number of students employed as conductors during the summer holidays. My favourite route as a conductor was the long journey between Blyth and Sunderland which, at that time, had only been running for a few years since the opening of the Tyne Tunnel in 1967.
Bobjs
12/05/18 – 06:22
Ronnie. With reference to Black Spot you refer to in part one of your excellent coverage BS can be seen listed on old survey maps as a BOUNDARY STONE.
Alan Coulson
16/05/18 – 06:11
I have never worked for either BET or THC -only for National Bus and family owned independents – and I know who I would prefer to work for. However I would offer the following (no less nor no more biased than those of other contributors) observations – 1) Presumably BET sold out to the NBC because they were embarrassed by the enormous profits they were making (or more realistically were going to make in the future). 2) The numbers of passengers and potential profit in the industry would enable companies to operate half cab vehicles with 2 man crews under pre-war terms and conditions of employment and wasteful use of resources indefinitely. I know that this is a nostalgia site, but for those of us working in the industry at the time (and thinking about it) were uncomfortably aware that with or without NBC things were never going to be the same again. Return on capital employed was never going to look good again. The political and economic policies around NBC rather than NBC itself was the cause. Never forget that the people operating the NBC subsidiaries were exactly the same people as were running the subsidiaries of THC and BET before them, so therefore the fault lies with the remit given to them rather than the staff involved – hence in a word politics. Exactly the same reason for the even worse failure that followed – deregulation and privatisation. So please stop slagging off (by implication) we ex-employees of NBC who tried their best to implement policies for which we were not the authors, and give the best service to the customers with the tools and methods we were given
Malcolm Hirst
18/05/18 – 06:57
The seminal tome “National Bus Company 1968-1989” (John A Birks et al) records that BET did not sell out willingly at all. They did so because they were under twin threats. One threat came from Barbara Castle, who wanted to get her hands on their interests to develop her transport policies, and so overplayed the potential danger to their profits from the compulsory purchase powers of the new Passenger Transport Authorities. The other threat came from the trade unions, who had said they would not rest until the BET subsidiaries were under public ownership.
Peter Williamson
19/05/18 – 07:12
Does the book say how much the government paid to purchase BET and how the Labour government raised the money to do so? In the post-war nationalisation frenzy period, it usually issued what were than called Gilt Edged Securities, such as 4.5% Transport Stock 1965-1969. The public would then buy the stock, which would vary in price according to the variation in interest rates generally, but would be paid at the issue price during the five year redemption period. I recall there was one disgraceful one issued to fund World War One and which had no redemption date and so never reached to issue price. In the end, the government of the day promised to repay it to holders if they had or when when they reached retirement age! But I digress!
Chris Hebbron
23/05/18 – 06:52
Chris, £35,000,000 seems to ring a bell. Did Barbara Castle twist BET’s arm to sell, by threatening them with compulsory nationalisation or the effects of the CTAs on the profits from their most profitable operations? or had BET realised just how increasingly hard they were having to sweat their assets to generate worthwhile profits from their bus business, when they wee making much better returns from laundries/TV/etc? I suspect Barbara Castle threatened BET, BET put up a bit of a “free-market” fight, but that at that end of the day a willing buyer payed a bit more than first offered to what was really a willing seller.
The layout of the lights on this Weymann bodied AEC Regent suggests that it could be from 1940, but the registration indicates post war. Percy Main had six, FT 5222/7 – 112/7, and they set the trend for many of the post war vehicles.
This 1946, Guy Arab was one of five with Northern Counties bodies, FT 5623/7 123/7; to my mind they were not dissimilar to the Weymann’s
1947; fifteen Weymann bodied AEC Regent IIs, arrived, FT 5698/712 – 128/42: followed by another fourteen in 1948; FT 6143/56 – 143/56
153 from the 1948 intake, with 157 from 1949 behind it.
The Northern Coachbuilders H30/26R Regent III’s were the last new AEC double deckers delivered to Percy Main, they arrived in 1949, eight in total, they were FT 6557/64 – 157/164. 157/8 were Wakefields.
1949, and 10 new Pickering bodied Guy Arab III’s arrived, FT 6565/74 – 165/74. Since 1945, the preferred choice of vehicle for P/M had been AEC, so they were out of step with NGT who had mainly bought Guy’s, these invariably had Gardner 5LW engines, so presumably 5LW’s were unavailable, as these Guy’s came with Meadows engines. However, they were unreliable and were eventually replaced with AEC units, although one ‘169?’ did received a 5LW.
FT 7381/90 – 181/90: These superbly finished H30/26R Weymann bodied Guy Arab III’s with Gardner 5LW engines appeared on the scene in 1952. They were the first 8ft wide buses, and the first with sliding cab doors. 189 was retained as a training vehicle, and was incidentally the bus I passed my test in. Livery c1961
When I started as a driver at Percy Main in January 1967, these 1953 Guy Arab IV’s were the oldest vehicles still in service. I am not sure if the H33/28R Weymann bodies are Aurora or Orion, but T&D had four, FT 7893/6 – 193/6; with Guy’s superb engineering and NGT’s favourite Gardner 5LW, they were reliable and mechanically sound, but they were about a ton and a half lighter than the previous Arab’s, and too many corners had been cut to save weight. The bodies were poorly finished and required constant maintenance, otherwise they would have literally rattled themselves apart.
FT 9003/7 – 203/7, arrived in 1955, and were defiantly MCW – H35/28R Orion; they were an improvement on the previous four, but none of them were ever the most popular vehicles in the fleet
Tynemouth had eight of these 1956 Park Royal bodied Guy Arab IV’s FT9408/15 – 208/15. At that time, the Arab IV chassis was arguably superior to anything else available to BET. The bodies were well designed, and superbly well built. They were nearly eleven years old when I first drove one, but they were extremely well behaved, very forgiving and very popular with passengers and crew alike; As you can probably gather, I liked them. In my opinion, had they had a Gardner 6LW instead of the 5LW, they would have been the best half cabs the NGT group ever had, I include the Routemasters in that statement. Livery c1961
Three Willowbrook bodied AEC Reliance MU3RV’s arrived in 1957. FT 9916/18 – 216/18; when new, they were DP/41F and never carried adverts, but they were later downgraded and re-seated as buses with a larger capacity, they were eventually transferred to Northern and renumbered 2240/2
AFT 50 – 220, was one of five H35/28R Willowbrook bodied Leyland PD2/12’s that came in 1957. They were AFT 49/53 – 219/223, as far as I am aware, they were the only vehicles in the group with this type of body; 223 had an extended life as a driver training vehicle.
Its fair to say that the Orion would not be everyone’s first choice for favourite body, and the least said about the early versions the better. However, by 1958, lessons had been learned and the Orion was now a vastly superior body to those built for the earlier Arab IV’s. As far as I am aware, these Leyland PD 3/4’s were the NGT groups first 30ft D/D’s, and they had quite a number of them. SDO specified Burlingham R/D bodies, but the rest of the group had the H41/32R – MCW Orion. In this photo 229 looks as if it has just arrived from MCW, and the paint has barely had time to dry. It was one of twelve delivered to Percy Main; AFT 224/35 – 224/35, Tyneside had three, NNL 48/50 – 48/50; and the batch for Gateshead had a Newcastle Corporation style destination layout, but that and different livery apart, outwardly, all the Orion’s looked to be pretty much the same, the interiors were finished in brown with leatherette covered seats, but the T&D vehicles had a much higher interior spec, as well as being a different colour, ‘green’ they had moquette-upholstered seats. As was Percy Main’s custom at the time, the front number plates were moved from the radiator to the panel under the windscreen. AFT 930, had an extended life as a driver training vehicle. It’s now in the extremely capable hands of N.E.B.P.T. Ltd, where ‘to date’ it is undergoing extensive restoration. If restored to its original livery, I have no doubt that the finished article will look every bit as good as this one does.
Still in 1958, six all Leyland Titan PD2’s – BTY 168/9 – 28/9 and CTY 330/33 – 30/33 were transferred from Tyneside; they were repainted in T&D livery but retained their Tyneside fleet numbers. Some were later transferred to Northern. Livery c1958
Numerically, CFT 637 – 237, was Percy Mains second PDR1/1 Leyland Atlantean, but Tynemouth’s first, 236 carried the Wakefields name. It was one of fourteen delivered in 1960, and they signalled the start of a new chapter, they were all H44/34F, the first batch of nine CFT 636/44 – 236/44, were MCW bodied, they were followed by five with Roe bodies, DFT 245/9 – 245/9. Eight more with Roe bodies came in 1962, FFT754/61 – 254/61. 241. After the 1962 batch arrived, it would be another 10 years before another Atlantean joined the fleet at Percy Main. The photo was taken after the formation of T&W – PTE, note the logo on the Newcastle bus, it was also after all the route numbers had been changed, this route was previously the service 5.
Along with the 1962, Roe bodied Atlantean’s, were two PSU3/3R Leyland Leopard’s with Willowbrook DP47/F bodies. FFT 812/3 – 262/3. Livery c1966. The original livery had the cream centre band relief, but the window surrounds were red. Incidentally, the location for the photo is Northumberland Square in North Shields, the building in the background is built on what was the site of the T&D tram sheds in Suez Street.
1963, while the rest of the group were ordering Leyland PDR1/1’s, Percy Main went down a different road and ordered Fleetlines, and not for the first time they found themselves out of step with the rest of NGT. Between 1963 and 68, they took delivery of thirty-five CRG6LX Daimler Fleetlines. The first fifteen were HFT 366/75 – 266/75 H44/35F – 1963; and JFT 276/80 – 276/80 H43/32F – 1964; both batches were bodied by Weymann. After the formation of NBC, several Tynemouth Fleetlines transferred to East Yorkshire.
Two Marshall bodied B53F Leyland Leopard PSU3/1R’s were also part of the 1964 intake – JFT 281/2 – 281/2; they were later transferred to Northern and renumbered 2351/2
The first Alexander bodied Fleetlines were delivered in 1965. They were all H44/33F, one batch had air operated doors and windscreen wipers, whilst the remainder were electric, but apart from that they were all more or less the same spec. AFT 783/9C – 283/289 – 1965; In 1966, Percy Main was the first depot to adopt a modernised and much simplified version of the original NGT livery, other depots later followed suit. DFT 290/2E – 290/2 – were delivered in 1967; and EFT 693/702F – 293/302 – 1968. The 1968 intake were the last D/D’s bought by T&D before becoming part of NBC
We have come to a time of significant change within the NGT group. The start of NBC coincided with the end of the County Borough of Tynemouth; it was also a period of rapid changeover to OPO. In 1968, six 1961, AEC 2MU3RV Reliance’s with Alexander DP41F bodies MCN 988/93 – 1888/93, were ‘hired’ from Northern. When they were officially transferred in 1969, they were renamed and became 310/15.
1969 and 3 new Marshall Camair B48D bodied PSUR1A1R Leyland Panther’s, HCN 43/5G – 307/9, arrived, but many vehicles were swapped between depots. Vehicles transferred to Percy Main were renamed and given T&D fleet numbers.
Two Panthers from SDO, EPT 371/2G – 371/2 became 320/1, their transfer involved a full repaint. Eight Northern B44D Alexander SRG6LX Daimler Fleetlines – KCN 22/29J, became 322/9.
The last new vehicles with the Tynemouth name and fleet numbers were delivered in 1970; KFT 916/9J – 316/9 were Bristol RELL6G’s with ECW B44D bodies.
In 1921, the first buses to carry the Tynemouth name and fleet numbers were not new; they were transferred from Northern, and with a certain degree of irony the last buses to be issued with Tynemouth fleet numbers were also transfers. These 1966 AEC Renown’s came from East Yorkshire; they arrived in 1972 and were numbered 330/9; the Tynemouth name survived for another couple of years, but all subsequent vehicles had Northern fleet numbers
The story of The Northern General Transport Company Ltd starts in 1913, but the history of some of its subsidiaries goes back even further. Two of them were Tynemouth and District Transport Co and Wakefields Motors Limited; this is a brief and by no means complete history of those two. It would take far too long to detail every type of vehicle ever used, and some Information about pre war vehicles, such as exact numbers, registrations and fleet numbers has in many cases proved impossible to obtain. I do not claim that the article is 100% accurate, and I apologise in advance for any errors, but please feel free to correct any inaccuracies. The Wakefields name ceased to be used in 1970, by which time they were both Companies were part of the National Bus Company, the Tynemouth name survived until 1975. Northern’s original livery was BET red and white, but around 1931 this changed to red and cream. Pre NBC, the colours remained the same, and the pre war layout altered very little, but post war the black wings and mudguards became red, the lineout was discontinued and the fleet names became smaller, the amount of cream also diminished as you got towards the mid 60’s, with many of the single deck, and a very small number of D/D vehicles all red, however, in 1966, Percy Main reverted to a simplified and modernised version of the original layout. Where possible, I have shown vehicles in their original livery, but in some cases, the only photos I have they are in what was the current version of the period.
Percy Main depot is located in what was until the early 70’s the County Borough of Tynemouth; the majority of vehicles that came to the depot new were registered in the Borough and carried FT registrations. At its peak, the combined Tynemouth & Wakefields fleets numbered 105 vehicles, the majority of which were double deckers, but included in that number were 17 Coaches and dual-purpose vehicles. Between 1945/9 many pre war vehicles were rebodied, so some vehicles, or to be more precise, the chassis, crop up more than once. None of the rebodied vehicles were re-registered, however, many were redistributed to other depots throughout the NGT group and were renamed and numbered, the vehicles that returned to Percy Main retained their original fleet numbers.
The Tynemouth and District story has its origins in 1879, when work began on the construction of a 3ft gauge horse drawn tramway between North Shields and Tynemouth; it opened on 29th June 1880, but went bankrupt the following year. It reopened in 1882, as a 3ft 6″ steam hauled system, but that too was doomed to failure, lasting only until 1886. The track was extended and reopened in 1890, under the name of North Shields & Tynemouth District Tramways Company; the livery was crimson lake and cream. The company became part of the British Electric Traction Company ‘BET’ in 1899; the following year the line closed for extension and conversion to electricity. In March 1901, the modernised line that now ran between the North Shields New Quay ‘Cross Tyne Ferry Landing’ and The Victoria Hotel in Whitley Bay, reopened under the new name of Tynemouth & District Electric Traction Company Ltd; in 1904, the line was further extended to Whitley Bay Bandstand making a total distance of just under 5 miles. On the 4th September 1902, Tyneside Tramways and Tramroads Co; opened a line from North Shields to Wallsend/Newcastle Boundary, where it joined the Newcastle Corporation Tramways system, this allowed Tyneside trams to run into the City Centre and terminate at the Central Station. Tyneside became part of the BET Group in 1913, unfortunately joining the two systems was not possible because Tyneside ran on standard gauge track, and relaying the T&D lines would have been too costly. However, to provide North Shields with a partial overlap of the two systems, a third rail was laid along the half-mile section between Borough Road and Northumberland Square, thus allowing passengers to change easily from one route to the other. The last Tyneside tram ran on 6th April 1930, T&D tram services ceased the following year on 4th August 1931: In 1934, ‘Electric Traction’ was removed from the name, and the company became Tynemouth and District Transport Company Ltd: The name survived until 1975, when all NGT subsidiaries became Northern.
Information sourced from North Tyneside Libraries.
North Tyneside MBC
I have no idea of the significance of the black dot along the line of the A191. The map is c1990, and shows part of the South East corner of the Metropolitan Brough of North Tyneside. Much of the area shown is within what was the County Borough of Tynemouth. The route of the Tynemouth and District tramway is highlighted in black and the two squares along the route show where the tram sheds were, the one at the bottom was in Suez Street North Shields, and the other was John Street Cullercoats. When the line closed, John Street became the NGT group vehicle paint shop and body repair works, the location of Percy Main Garage is shown as a red square. At the time the tramway was completed in 1904, the area would have looked very different, most of the roads in red or orange would have existed, as did the railway, which was the N.E.R ‘later L.N.E.R’ North Tyne loop: Much of the area encircled by the loop was farmland; however, it contained dozens of collieries ‘none of which survive’ and several pit villages which have for the most part have become part the suburbs. Every pit in the area had its own railhead that linked it to the loop. A passenger service has always operated on the loop itself, but the primary function of the railway was transport coal to the Northumberland Dock at Howdon where it was loaded onto ships. The part of the network that survives is now part of the Tyne and Wear Metro system. The area south of the A193 was densely populated and highly industrialised, with thousands employed in the shipbuilding and repair yards located along the Tyne. The A1058 ‘New Coast Road’ was built in 1928; it ran from Newcastle to the junction of Billy Mill Avenue and Lynn Road, the blue square shows it’s full extent at that time. The Coast Road extension ‘Beach Road’ was completed in the 1960’s. The Tyne Tunnel, and the new roads linking it to Seaton Burn in the north and Birtley in the south opened in the 60’s, they became the A1 Newcastle bypass, and the existing A1 became the A167, but when the Newcastle Western bypass opened it was a case of ‘all change’ the Western bypass became the A1, and the previous bypass through, and to the north of the Tyne Tunnel became the A19, with the southern section becoming the A194.
J 2551, was Tynemouths first bus. A Daimler ‘B’ type new to Northern in 1914 as D1: it was originally a Brush bodied double decker, of the open top and open cab variety we are all familiar with from that era. It was one of five rebodied by Birch in 1919, and is seen here in that form, they were all transferred to Tynemouth when bus services commenced in 1921, on their arrival they became T1/5. Initially bus services were feeders for the tram network. Unfortunately, records and photos of pre war vehicles has been difficult to come by, however, my research suggests that; 1926, 6/11 were Brush BMMO bodied Tilling Stevens, in the same year, eleven BMMO 37’s arrived, they were numbered 12 and 14/23 ’13’ was not used, 1928 five BMMO SOS QL’s similar to the beautifully restored example at Beamish Museum. The bus network continued to expand rapidly, and in 1928, a more direct service to Newcastle became possible with the opening of the ‘New Coast Road’, which ran from Newcastle to Billy Mill, and considerably shortened the journey time to the coast: Licences to operate a service to Tynemouth along the new road were granted to Newcastle Corporation, ‘three vehicles’ Tynemouth and District ‘three vehicles’ and Wakefields Motors Ltd ‘two vehicles’. In addition, United and T&D were granted licences to operate a service to Whitley Bay and Blyth. Despite competition from United, NGT bought Wakefields from L.N.E.R in 1929, the purchase included six AEC and two Daimler vehicles, I do not have any details about them. In 1933, all Wakefields operations were placed under the control of T&D; and the vehicles were moved to Percy Main. However, Wakefields held some stage carriage, and a number of private hire, and excursion licences, so the name continued in use on some service vehicles and all Percy Main based coaches. Both companies ran in NGT livery, with fleet numbers in sequence.
The last tram ran in 1931, the tram depot in Suez Street North Shields closed, and the former tram sheds in Cullercoats became the NGT group paint shop and body repair works, where it remained until around the mid 50’s, when the work was moved to NGT central works at Bensham, and the Cullercoats site was sold for development.
These handsome H26/24R Short Brothers bodied AEC Regent 1’s, replaced the trams. There were sixteen in total, and I think they were FT 2516/23, 34/41 in 1931, and FT 2611/18, 42/49 in 1932, 42/5 carried the Wakefields name.
Northern Coachbuilders rebodied them in 1945 as seen here. Many of the newly rebodied vehicles were redistributed throughout the NGT group, but the vehicles that returned to Percy Main retained their original fleet number
These futuristic looking AEC Regent I’s with Short Brothers forward entrance bodies arrived on the scene in 1934; I do not have any information as to how many there were in total, but Percy Main, SDO and Northern all had them
At some point during the war, eleven of these vehicles were transferred to Northern, six Tynemouth and five from SDO, most were converted to diesel engines. All of the Short Bros bodies had an inherent structural weakness, some were so bad that special permission was granted to have them rebodied as utilities ‘as seen in this example from the Northern intake’ the rest were rebodied after the war. All the work was carried out by Northern Coachbuilders
Between 1935/6 Percy Main took delivery of eight of these legendary NGT/SE6 ‘Side engine 6 wheel’ vehicles, the one above was originally 82 in Tynemouth’s fleet. The first five were FT 3478.82 – 82/6, and had Short Bros B44F bodies, the three from 1936 were FT 3903/5 – 90/2 with NGT/Weymann bodies. When new they had Hercules WXC3, petrol engines, although most were later changed to AEC diesel. All eight were transferred to Northern in 1946. The original of the type. CN 6100, still survives, and is currently being restored by the N.E.B.P.T. Ltd
More forward entrance D/D vehicles joined the fleet in 1937; this time around Weymann built the bodies. The first three were AEC Regent I, FT 4220/2 – 93/5.
All the Weymann bodied forward entrance vehicles were rebodied in 1949. The Regent’s were done by Pickering.
In 1957, they had a third bite at the cherry, they headed to the south coast and joined Provincial as replacements for vehicles destroyed in garage fire, they remained in service with them until 1963
Eight more Weymann’s were delivered in 1938, FT 4596/4603 – 96/103, these were on Leyland TD5 chassis
The Leyland’s were also rebodied, despite the similar appearance the new bodies are Northern Coachbuilders not ECW
A very interesting article, and I look forward to the other parts.
However, I have a question: was there really a three-rail overlap between the Tyneside and Tynemouth tramway systems from Borough Road to Northumberland Square in North Shields? According to George Hearse’s “The Tramways of Northumberland” (1961) the three-rail section was a 30 yard stretch in Prudhoe Street west of its junction with Borough Road and Saville Street. This had been the western terminus of the Tynemouth horse and steam trams, and remained as a siding of the Tynemouth system (3’6″) when the newly-electrified route was built down the steep bank of Borough Road to the ferry landing in 1901. The Tyneside line (4’8.5″) was built the following year and used one rail of this siding to reach the east end of Prudhoe Street. This was the eastern terminus of Tyneside trams. As far as I know, Tyneside trams never ran east of that point (and similarly the subsequent Tyneside bus service terminated in North Shields near there by looping round Coach Lane, Stanley Street West and the top part of Borough Road).
Paul Robson
27/09/13 – 18:16
Paul, as I said, the information came from an article in North Tyneside Libraries, as we know, they are not always 100% accurate and at times have to be taken with a pinch of salt. I suspect that neither of us is old enough to remember trams in North Shields, and I was a bit sceptical as to why an overlap would go that far. However, I have seen photos of an overlap going as far as The Sir Colin Campbell in Saville Street, that would be about a hundred yards to the East of the junction of Borough Road, which would make far more sense.
Ronnie Hoye
28/09/13 – 07:18
Hearse is quite clear about where he thought the dual-gauge track was, but he might have been wrong. It would be interesting to see the photo of Saville Street.
Hearse’s book also has a photo of a Leyland Titan bus that replaced the Tyneside trams. The body is identical to the 1931 Short Bros. body on the AEC Regent in your article.
Paul Robson
28/09/13 – 11:34
Paul, I’ve dug out three photos taken from more or less the same spot.
in the first from Prudhoe St you can see the lines and overhead wires turn from Saville Street into Borough Road to go down to the New Quay.
In the second from Prudhoe St looking East they also come across the junction from Prudhoe Street.
The third Saville St looking West with a T&D tram turning into Saville
Street, no third rail in that shot either, but it does have the Tyneside tracks on the other side of the junction.
Ronnie Hoye
04/10/13 – 15:11
Re the connection between the Tynemouth and Tyneside systems, Charles Reed in his reminiscences of the Tynemouth tramways in Tramway Review Vol 4 No 29 (1961) writes:-
“I can well remember the [Tynemouth] trams terminating at . . . Prudhoe Street on a short length of track mixed-gauge, end to end with the trams of the Tyneside . . . company”.
I have an extensive collection of postcards showing Tynemouth trams in North Shields and have never seen evidence of the mixed gauge track continuing into Saville Street. For it to have done so would have been costly (involving crossing Tynemouth points) and would have meant cars of different gauges getting mixed up with and obstructing each other. It’s also hard to imagine what the purpose of it would have been.
But I had another question. For how long did the replacement buses carry the “via tram route” signs I have seen in photographs? I can’t remember them myself, but my late parents always spoke of the No 8 bus as ‘the tram route’.
Percy Trimmer
04/10/13 – 17:18
Sorry, Percy, I don’t have an answer to that. Has you probably know, the service 7 & 8 followed the old tram route from the New Quay to Whitley Bay Bandstand, at which point the 8 terminated and the 7 continued to Blyth. Several routes were known by nick names rather than numbers ‘some are not fit for publication’ but crews always referred to the 8 as ‘the Track’
Ronnie Hoye
04/10/13 – 17:30
Somehow, Ronnie, your Part I passed me by. Northern General has always fascinated me, especially the NGT/SE vehicles, a brief DIY effort.
I had a definite deja vu moment when I saw the Regent I/Short Bros photo, identical to the sole Portsmouth Corporation one, which never reached a parlous body state, having been written off by enemy action in 1941. Even the paint style was identical, save for the autovac! And the Regent/Weymann ones, so much like my Cheltenham District posting, although the CD ones had the traditional rear platform. Those Weymann bodies were very handsome, I must say.
Chris Hebbron
10/10/13 – 17:53
The People’s Collection on the Beamish website contains a view looking west from the Borough Road junction with double tram tracks leading into Prudhoe Street. It corresponds to two of the pics previously posted by Ronnie but looking in the opposite direction. Click on the thumbnails for bigger pictures although resolution is still low and hides much of the detail. http://collections.beamish.org.uk
The OS 1:2500 map for 1918 confirms a two track junction at this crossroads with the tracks in Prudhoe Street converging to form a reversing stub which is continuous with the Tyneside stub. It seems likely that the mixed gauge arrangement (George Hearse states 30 yards long) would lie at this mutual reversing location and that the Tyneside trams never went further east than here.
Notes from Tyneside T&T board meetings state:
13th September 1910 – “Negotiations with Tynemouth DET to lay a third rail along Prudhoe Street, North Shields, still in progress”.
12th June 1911 – “Laying of third rail in Prudhoe Street complete and cars running over same”.
Tony Fox
14/05/15 – 16:26
Regarding the 1938 Leyland TD5s, 96-103, according to the Northern subsidiaries Fleet History, these vehicles were rebodied by Eastern Coach Works in 1948. Tynemouth did have some AEC Regents with NCB bodies, but these had a different body style. I believe that the ECW look-alike style was introduced in 1950. Northern had, I believe a batch of Guys with NCB bodies of that style. I can recall these Leylands in the early fifties operating on service 5, however by 1958, when I started travelling to school on this route, they had gone and Guy Arabs 203-7 were the regular vehicles at that time.
John Gibson
15/05/15 – 06:33
John. I can assure you that 93/106 were not rebodied by ECW. Under the terms of the Transport act of 1947. Bristol chassis and/or ECW bodies were off limits to BET companies. The design is ECW derived, but the bodies were built by NCB.
Ronnie Hoye
15/05/15 – 17:50
Hi, Ronnie, thanks for your response. As you say, the 1947 Transport Act prohibited ECW and Bristol from supplying vehicles to non BTC companies, however, this only applied to new orders – they were allowed to complete orders that had already been placed, which took some time.
For confirmation that these bodies were by ECW, have a look at ECW 1946-1965 by M G Doggett and A A Townsin (Venture Publications 1993). On page 38, there is what looks to be an official photo of T100 (FT 4500) which clearly has an Eastern Coachworks sign placed in the destination box. There were actually thirteen of these bodies, eight for Tynemouth and five for Northern. Incidentally, Alan Townsin was originally from Newcastle, and so was probably familiar with these vehicles.
John Gibson
16/05/15 – 06:17
The black dot on the A191 appears to be in the area of the Wheatsheaf Inn, between New York and Backworth (spelling) colliery.
Perhaps those locations have some significance in the history of the company.
John Lomas
16/12/16 – 14:20
In the map at the start of the site you make mention of the ‘black dot’ which you have no idea what it meant. I am fairly sure, no, make that certain, that this is Northumberland Square which was the place in North Shields up to around the late 1960s where all bus services started from or passengers interchanged. Companies using them were Tynemouth, Hunters and United.
Newcastle Corporation buses service No11 and Tynemouth Service also No 11 ran a joint service but by-passed this by stopping on Albion Road to the north of the square on the way from Tynemouth Front Street to Newcastle Haymarket
I notice that there is a similar black dot further down the route in Whitley Bay and this was and still may be the smaller Bus Station.
I have not been there for a few years.
John King
16/12/16 – 16:52
I think the dot referred to originally is the round one out to the west, not either of the square ones.
The round dot is on the A191 and seems to relate to the Hypermarket north of the junction and the industrial estate south of it which appear on the ’85 -’95 OS. This is just to the west of New York the faint yellow loop of roads seen on the map just to the east. www.old-maps.co.uk/ You may have to zoom out to see the map.
John Lomas
21/12/16 – 10:00
I have managed to get a Tynemouth and Wakefields fleet list, so hopefully I can correct any errors and fill in the gaps in my article. To the best of my knowledge, the article is correct for post war vehicles. Here is a link to view the fleet list. Tynemouth and Wakefields fleet list 1921 – 1944
Ronnie Hoye
28/12/16 – 06:45
Ronnie Hoye & John Lomas.
Reference the round dot, looking at the two maps and referring to the old map from John a B.S. is showing could this be Bus Stop it would not be Bus Station. I seem to recall a Farm House/Out buildings on the North Side of the road a gate is still visible in the fence however the farm buildings are long gone (fire damage) the B.S on the map is showing close to the gate hence bus stop near to Farm House. On the upgrading of road this stretch now has 2 stops on the North Side with the original one in the middle of the said present 2 stops. Having driven past Tuesday evening 27/12/16 the fields to the North retain boundaries as shown in old map with little to no change to green belt area. The B.S. on the old map may be a abbreviation as the public house to the right of map shows a P.H. under the listing of the Wheatsheaf at Murton so may be the B.S. is Bus Stop however I stand to be corrected.
I am extremely grateful to Tony Fox, and Bill Donald, for their help in putting this article together. The Tyneside name ceased to exist as an identity in 1975, inevitably, some records have been lost entirely, and in instances where I am aware of more than one account of events, I have pointed this out, nevertheless, I do not claim that the article is 100% accurate.
This is a relatively modern map, but it illustrates Tyneside’s tram routes to North Shields and Gosforth, it does not show the route into Newcastle City Centre. Some records say the terminus was Stanhope Street, whilst others say Central Station. I am not familiar with Newcastle’s tram network, but the two places are not that far apart, and travelling from Wallsend, Stanhope Street is beyond the Central Station, so possibly it went to one via the other. Tyneside’s depot ‘the black square at the end of the spur’ was situated in Neptune Road Wallsend; behind ‘Thermal Syndicate’ offices overlooking Swan Hunters Shipyard. In the 60’s, the factory was extended, and the buses were relocated to a new purpose built depot about half a mile east along Hadrian Road ‘shown as a red square’ what remained of the old depot became an ambulance station, apparently the tracks were not removed until 1975. Tyneside became part of the British Electric Traction Company in 1913; ideally, where the Tyneside and Tynemouth and District systems met, they would have been joined to form a through route from Newcastle to Whitley Bay. However, this proved to be a none starter as the track gauges were not compatible, Tyneside ran on 4ft 8½” standard gauge, Tynemouth none standard 3ft 6″ and the cost of conversion would have been enormous. However, where the two sets of tracks met, at the junction of Prudhoe Street and Saville Street, a short third rail overlap was created. Accounts differ as to which side of the junction the overlap was actually on, but I believe that it was unique in the British Isles. The last Tyneside tram ran on 6th April 1930: Bus services commenced with the two routes inherited from the trams, neither was numbered, but they were known locally as ‘The green bus’ the somewhat long-winded company name remained the same until 1965, when they became the Tyneside Omnibus Company Limited.
Tyneside Tramways and Tramroads Company Limited; played a smaller, but none the less significant role in the pre National Bus Company history of public transport in North Tyneside. The story begins on 4th September 1902, with the opening of a tram service from North Shields to the Wallsend/Newcastle Boundary; from that point onwards, they ran on Newcastle Corporation Tramways track. As far as I am aware, the revenue taken on that section of the route went to Newcastle Corporation, and Tyneside received payment for the mileage they covered. They also had a second route from Wallsend to Gosforth. Until the early 50’s the fleet numbers had a TT prefix, but never exceeding more than around twenty vehicles in total, to the best of my knowledge, Tyneside was the smallest of the Northern General Transport Group subsidiary companies. Their close neighbours Wakefields Motors Limited, had fewer service buses, but they also had coaches, so in altogether they had more vehicles than Tyneside.
The livery was dark leaf green and cream, and the buses were sage green and cream
After the First World War, Towns and Cities began to expand rapidly, consequently bus services were need to serve the needs of the ever- increasing populations. Tynemouth and District Electric Traction Company Limited began bus services in 1921; Tyneside Tramways and Tramroads Company Limited may have begun bus services at roughly the same time. However, according to the fleet records, Tyneside did not have any buses prior to 1930; but it is entirely possible they will have held stage carriage licences, which would explain the confusion. What is not in dispute is that Tynemouth and District operated a route from North Shields to Blyth via Whitley Bay. Accounts differ as to how this particular service came about. One version of events is that T&D successfully applied for licences to operate other routes in the North Shields and Wallsend areas. Meanwhile, Tilling Group rivals United, were expanding their stage carriage operations into South East Northumberland. BET regarded this as a threat, so to protect their ‘territory’ from further encroachment, T&D applied for a licence to run the service to Blyth, they were successful and the licence was granted. Another interpretation is that United objected and the application was refused. However, BET had anticipated an objection and had submitted a second application through Tyneside, and this proved to be successful. Nevertheless, I have been unable to find any documented evidence that Tyneside simultaneously ran tram and bus services alongside each other. If indeed they were granted the licence, it’s possible that T&D operated the service on Tyneside’s behalf. Obviously both cannot be right, and I am not prepared to speculate as to which of them is.
Tram Replacements
Six L27/24RO all Leyland TD1’s, arrived in 1930, TY 6970/75 initially numbered 31/36 but renumbered 1/6 in 1936. TY 7398 and 7913 numbered 7/8, followed them later the same year.
A rear view of what appears to be TY 7913
I have conflicting accounts as to what happened to these vehicles afterwards. Version 1, states that 1/4/7&8 were given H30/26R Northern Coachbuilders bodies in 1943 and by 1946, they had all been fitted with diesel engines. They were sold to Robson Bros of Haltwhistle in 1951, with 4 eventually becoming a Showman’s vehicle. Version 2 is that post war 1/4/7&8 were returned to Leyland to have the chassis overhauled and to be rebodied, and they came back as 28-31. Personally, I doubt this, my reasons being. In the 40’s & 50’s, many NGT group buses were rebodied, some which were originally from SDO & T&D were renumbered and allocated to different depots, but invariably they all retained their original registrations. Other records have 28/9&30 as a PD1 and 31 as a PD2 with new issue registrations. Wilts and Dorset bought 2/3/5; they were rebodied by ECW and fitted with Gardner 5LW engines, 6 was requisitioned by the Ministry of Transport in 1939 and went to Buckland of Perth.
Pictured at Hodgson’s on Benfield Road; the Leyland dealer for Newcastle, are three H27/24R all Leyland TD1 in Tyneside livery and numbered 9/11. New vehicles ordered by Tyneside had Northumberland registrations, but VK 3839/41 are Newcastle. They were delivered to Newcastle Corporation in January 1931, but were never numbered as part of their fleet. One explanation is that Newcastle wanted to retain an interest in the former tram route they had shared with Tyneside, but The County Borough of Tynemouth would not allow Newcastle Corporation vehicles within its boundaries. However, they had been operating on the Newcastle Tynemouth service 11, since 1928, this route was shared with Tynemouth and District and Wakefields, so I am not entirely convinced. Be that as it may, by the end of 1931, they moved to Wallsend, and remained with Tyneside until they were withdrawn from service in 1938, which seems a very short life for a Leyland. They were bought by Barton Transport, Chilwell, and rebodied by Duple as L55F.
It’s not clear if they came before or after the TS3A’s from Southdown, but between 1930 & 1931 Tyneside borrowed nine vehicles from Newcastle Corporation. Three CF6 Daimler demonstrators UB 1569 – VC 3882 and VR 5898. The Daimlers were later purchased by Lanarkshire Traction Company. The other six were English Electric H26/26R AEC Regents, VK 2378/9/70 May/June in 1930, then VK 2397/8/9 July 1930 to January 1931.
I don’t know if any more of the other Newcastle Corporation AEC’s which had been loaned to Tyneside were involved, but VK 2399 certainly got around. It had a spell on wartime service with London Transport, but was still in Newcastle livery.
Eight O27/24RO Tilling Stevens TS3A petrol electrics were bought from Southdown. One each from 1920 & 22, the rest were 1923. Registered in Brighton, they had a CD index but the numbers were not in sequence. They were allocated Tyneside fleet numbers 37/44.
43; CD 6834 – 1923
44; CD 6894 – 1922
42; CD 7703 – 1923
37; CD 7708 – 1923
38; CD 7711 – 1923
41; CD 8013 – 1923
43; CD 8282 – 1920
39; CD 8423 – 1923
Their Southdown fleet numbers were 201 – 94 -203/7/11/13, 82 & 223 respectively. 43 was originally numbered CD 5624, but was rebodied and reregistered in 1923 following a fire. They came to Tyneside from Southdown via Tilling Stevens in either 1930 or 1931 and had all been withdrawn by 1939.
12 – JR 773: an H27/24R all Leyland TD2 new in 1932, it was fitted with a diesel engine in 1946 and withdrawn in 1949. No further records found.
13 – JR 2393: an H27/25R all Leyland TD3c. In 1946, Burlingham rebodied it as H30/26R a diesel engine was fitted, on its return from Burlingham it was it reallocated to Gateshead. In 1956 it was sold to a building contractor in Hetton Le Hole, for use as a staff transport vehicle.
14/16 – JR 4049/51: H30/26R all Leyland TD4c new in 1935. Withdrawn in 1952, no further records found.
17 – TJ 4511: a 1933 H24/24F Weymann bodied Leyland TD3c demonstrator. It was bought by Tyneside in 1935, and rebodied by Northern Coachbuilders in 1944. It was withdrawn in 1952 and became a Showman’s vehicle. Presumably it was similar to the 1938 forward entrance Weymann bodied TD5’s of T&D, which can be found in my article about Percy Main.
A handsome 1938 Leyland TD5, its one of nine ordered by Tyneside. JR 8618/26 – 18/26. The body is an ECW design, but some records indicate that it was Leeds Coachbuilders Charles Roe who built them; they were the last buses to be delivered before WWII. They had long lives and were not withdrawn until 1954. Records suggest 18/22/3/4/5&6 went to Showmen, and 19/20&21 were sold to a dealer in London, but nothing further can be found. Its strange how many of Tyneside’s vehicles seemed to go to Showmen.
CN 5242: a 1931 Brush bodied AEC Regent; Apparently Tyneside’s only diesel engined AEC. It was new to Northern as 564; 1n 1932 it was transferred to Tynemouth where it became 50. It moved to Tyneside in 1941 and became No 27. Rebodied by Northern Coachbuilders in 1946, it returned to Northern as 1403.
Post War
Tyneside’s first post war buses were three 1946, H30/26R all Leyland PD1 Titans BTY 168/70 – 28/30. 31/33 – CTY 331/333: 1948 H30/26R all Leyland PD2/1. Officially on long term loan, 28/30 & 31/33, were transferred to Tynemouth 1958. They were repainted in T&D livery but retained Tyneside fleet numbers. 34/37 – ENL 680/683 1951 H30/26R all Leyland PD2/3. 34&6 went to F Cowley of Salford.
This PD2/3 was the last Tyneside bus to enter service before the arrival of the 1954 Orion bodied PD2/12’s. Its fleet number was 38; but, BCN 889 is a Gateshead registration. It was new in 1951, records say it was transferred from Gateshead the same year, but all Gateshead half cabs had a Newcastle Corporation style destination layout, and this one does not. Personally, I am inclined to think it may have been diverted to Tyneside before it left the Leyland factory, and never actually enter service with Gateshead. 35 – 37&8 were sold to Alexander (Greyhound) of Arbroath.
Here I go off on one of my rants again. Tyneside’s Newcastle terminus was in Croft Street; literally two minutes from the bottom of Northumberland Street, the main shopping thoroughfare in Newcastle. The building behind, is the old City Library in New Bridge Street. In the 70’s, several of the Cities Councillors stood trial for corruption and subsequently became guests in one of Her Majesty’s Prisons. Unfortunately, it came too late to save this, and many more of the City Centres beautiful buildings. Like many other Cities, Newcastle had its heart ripped out and destroyed. A hideous modern monstrosity, which has since been demolished, replaced the Library; at the time, it was called ‘progress’ today it would be criminal damage.
In 1954, Tyneside took delivery of nine H35/28R – MCW Orion bodied Leyland PD2/12’s GTY 169/77 39/47.
The other end of the route was Borough Road North Shields.
Tyneside had three 1958 H41/32R MCW Orion bodied Leyland PD3/4’s – NNL 48/50 – 48/50; Although in Tyneside livery, they spent the first months of their lives on loan to Tynemouth and District. After withdrawal 48 and 50 became Northern Group training buses, a rather different fate awaited 49.
Late comers to the world of rear engine buses. Tyneside were nearly four years behind T&D with these PDR1/1 MKII Leyland Atlantean‘s; they were in fact the last D/D depot in the group to get them.
The first three BTY 151/3B – 51/3 arrived in 1964, they had H43/32F Weymann bodies, and rather suited the Tyneside livery. The style of lettering on the Shop at Binns logo would make this photo no earlier than 1966. This is not the last time we shall see this vehicle, so prepare yourselves for a shock.
Between 1965 & 67, Tyneside took delivery of six PDR1/1 MKII Atlanteans with the superb H43/32F Alexander body; ENL 354/5C 54/5 in 1965 – HJR 656/7D 56/7 in 1966 – KNL 58/9E 58/9 in 1967 and one more in 1968, NNL 60F – 60 which had an H44/33F version of the body. This was to be Tyneside’s last new D/D pre NBC. By the end of 1973, all Tyneside’s vehicles had been painted in a hideous livery.
The start of OPO operations in 1969, and Tyneside ventured into what for them had previously been unexplored territory, they took delivery of their first single deck buses.
Two B48D Marshall Camair bodied PSUR1A/1R Leyland Panthers – RJR 61/2G – 61/2, were the only single deck vehicles to carry the Tyneside name. Two Bristol RELL ECW B44D’s which were scheduled to arrive, and would have been 63/4, were diverted to Gateshead, 61/2 were transferred with them. Tyneside were allocated two former SDO Burlingham bodied PD3’s. YPT 289&292 which became 66/7, They were painted yellow rather than green.
Strictly speaking, these 1973 Daimlers are too young for this site, but the chassis and body type ‘not necessarily in this combination’ had been around for a while, and they illustrate how fleets changed post NBC. Tyneside had five H45/27D – ECW bodied CRL6 Daimler Fleetlines, ETY 90/94L, they were the only Tyneside buses in the short-lived NBC green layout, before they became T&W yellow, and were the last to carry the Tyneside name. The fleet numbers had gone haywire; they were 90/94L. 92L is seen here on loan to Gateshead.
Life after Tyneside
After withdrawal from service, all 1954 intake had extended lives, 39 was bought by Samuel Ledgard, 40 went to Wells of Hatfield. 41/2/5&6 became Northern Group training buses, and 43/4 went to Patton Bros of Renfrew. By the time this photo was taken, 45 was at least 14 years old, it’s still in Tyneside green, the name has been changed but other than that it’s in more or less in the same condition as it was the last time it carried passengers.
47, had a different ending. It went to the central engineering department at Bensham, where it was converted into a mobile workshop come towing vehicle, after that it became a ‘tree lopper’ it was still around as late as 1980
A very high proportion of Tyneside’s vehicles saw further service with other companies, and a surprising number went to Fairground Showmen. Inevitably, others went straight for scrap, but of all Tyneside’s buses, it was 49, which was to have the most unusual ending. Around 1969, it was involved in a serious accident, and at one stage it was being cannibalised for spares, however, the development team at NGT decided to see if a cost effective conversion could be found of front engine vehicles for OPO operations. This was the result, one of the Routemasters was given a slightly less radical treatment, they were named Tynesider and Wearsider. They were a brave attempt, but a failure. For a while, this one was based at Percy Main, but only used for staff transport.
New Tyneside vehicles were NL – JR or TY Northumberland County registrations, this one was reregistered after its rebuild. Ironically, it has survived into preservation. To date it is located somewhere in the Liverpool area.
Finally
All BET and Tilling Group companies suffered when the National Bus Company was created, and my views on the subject are no secret; even small depots like Tyneside were not immune from the disease of apathy and neglect. As well as the introduction of an atrocious corporate livery, they lost their identity and fleet numbers, and the vehicles looked neglected. BTY 151B is typical; Wheel trims gone, no shine and the paintwork looking like a patchwork quilt, hard to believe this is the same well cared for vehicle we saw earlier looking resplendent in sage green and cream. The destination suggests the vehicle was now part of the Gateshead fleet.
Following the creation of NBC, the name, livery and fleet numbers were changed, but the depot was still on the go, and both the routes were still in operation, but the newly formed T&W PTE had other ideas. The Corporation fleets of Newcastle, South Shields and Sunderland came together as a single unit, in a common livery; the PTE took administrative control of all routes wholly within Tyne and Wear boundaries, and decided that no two routes within the area would have the same number. Virtually everything changed; Newcastle Corporation’s route numbers started at 1, and with a few exceptions remained more or less the same. The numbers radiated out from Newcastle and some went up into the 800’s. The Newcastle North Shields route became the 313, and the route to Gosforth discontinued. Many routes were abandoned and other services rerouted to cover areas which otherwise would be without a service. The remains of Tyneside’s fleet was transferred to Gateshead in 1975, and replaced by vehicles brought in from various sources, none of them ever carried the Tyneside name whilst in service, but I believe one has been preserved in Tyneside livery. Eventually the 313 became another abandoned route, and the double deck fleet was reallocated to other depots. The PTE started several minibus routes in the Wallsend area, and the vehicles were garaged at Hadrian Road. However, none of the routes survived deregulation and the depot in now home to a Car and van hire company.
RIP Tyneside 1902 – 1975.
Ronnie Hoye
11/2013
08/11/13 – 17:13
The trams were numbered 1 to 30, so it looks as if the buses were, at first, numbered to follow-on from the trams.
In “The Tramways of Northumberland” George Hearse makes no mention of Tyneside Tramways and Tramroads bus operations before the abandonment of the trams though he does mention Tynemouth and District bus operations in the 1920s. That has always led me to think that TTT did not have a bus operation in the 1920s.
I think that George Hearse had access to the archives of Northern General Transport, TTT and T+D; he was also probably alive in the 1920s. So my guess is that he would have mentioned TTT buses if there had been any in the 1920s. He also said that the Newcastle terminus was Stanhope Street.
Paul Robson
09/11/13 – 06:05
Interesting article, Ronnie & Co.
The eight ex-Southdown Tilling-Stevens TS3A’s were almost certainly purchased to replace the trams scrapped in 1930. These ‘gearless’ buses would have made a useful interim vehicle for the tram drivers. More about these vehicles is at this link. It’s such a shame that none of them was preserved – It’s likely that they were the last in public service.
Chris Hebbron
09/11/13 – 06:07
Nice article Ronnie, with some lovely views of Tyneside vehicles – and aren’t the older style fleetnames huge? No disputing ownership of the vehicles there then. I well remember seeing Leyland Titan PD2 GTY 169 parked at the rear of Samuel Ledgard’s Otley depot still wearing Tyneside’s attractive green and cream livery. Some months later I saw it again following its overhaul and repaint into Sammie’s equally attractive blue and light grey. The Yorkshire firm presumably took a shine to GTY’s lightweight bodywork, as not long afterwards they acquired four similar-looking buses on AEC Regent V chassis from South Wales Transport. I have heard that the Titan could give quite a bouncy ride on rough road surfaces however, due to the combination of lightweight body and heavyweight chassis, but no doubt the Titan’s performance would have been quite sprightly as a result.
Brendan Smith
09/11/13 – 15:19
As you say, Brendan, the PD2 could be a bit lively. Percy Main depot used to borrow vehicles from Tyneside on a regular basis, I never drove one of their PD2’s, but I have driven all their PD3’s and the Weymann and Alexander bodied Atlanteans. We had some Willowbrook bodied PD2’s, and they tended to bounce a lot when empty or light loaded, but they were rather better at stopping than the PD3. It could be a rather interesting shift if you had one of Tyneside’s buses; Tyneside routes were not numbered, so people in Wallsend saw a ‘green bus’ and didn’t bother to look at the destination blind, they just assumed it was going to Newcastle, North Shields or Gosforth, so the traffic clerk had to make doubly sure they were allocated to a route that never went anywhere near Wallsend. As a rule they would usually be on one of the Coast Road routes, i.e. the 3 – 5 or 11
Ronnie Hoye
12/11/13 – 12:00
Many thanks Ronnie for the kind acknowledgement to myself and Tony Fox. I’ll just add some further information that lies within my own specialist interest, namely the electrical aspects of the tramway – an aspect that is largely overlooked in tramway history accounts.
It is not generally recognised that the Tyneside Tramways & Tramroads Company (TTT) was very closed associated with the Newcastle upon Tyne Electric Supply Company (NESCO), and the electrical engineering consultants Merz and McLellan (M&M).
Aside from shared directors of TTT and NESCO – the chairman of NESCO Dr. J.T. Merz was a founder and director of TTT, M&M pitched in with senior partner William McLellan serving throughout the tramway’s operation as their de-facto chief engineer. The tram shed at Neptune Bank, Wallsend was conveniently adjacent to NESCO’s Neptune Bank power station, and TTT shared land, amenities, office services among many other aspects of their business. Indeed it could be said the Tyneside Tramways were the public transport arm of NESCO.
One factor that helped TTT enormously was the availability and low cost of power. Like the North Eastern Railway (NER) a few years later, TTT didn’t have the capital cost burden of erecting their own power station – this was all provided by NESCO.
Power was supplied to TTT’s substation on the Neptune Bank site and this stepped down the 6KV three-phase AC from NESCO to 500 volts. This lower voltage AC was then fed to motor-generators sets which produced the 550 volt DC, suitable for the tramway. A motor-generator is essentially an AC motor mechanically coupled to a DC motor. When one of these motors serves as the prime mover, the other motor functions as a generator. Thus, AC in gives DC out and vice versa. In traction use the motor-generator was largely replaced by rotary converters, a single machine which does the same thing more efficiently and uses less space.
The output capacity of TTT’s Neptune Bank substation limited the length of the route to Gosforth. Although TTT had originally planned to reach the Coxlodge district, this was thwarted by Newcastle Corporation Tramways (NCT). So the Gosforth route terminated in Church Road, Gosforth from 1901 until 1904. TTT then considered Seaton Burn as their ultimate northern terminal.
Meanwhile NESCO had been busy extending its distribution network in the area and had commissioned a substation in Gosforth for the rapidly growing domestic, office and shop lighting demand. After installing a rotary converter set they were able to offer a 550 volt DC supply to TTT. This meant that the extension northwards to Seaton Burn could be implemented, no doubt to the dismay of NCT, who’s territorial ambitions were rather more than a match for TTT. However it would seem that the dream of Seaton Burn was to remain elusive as the tramway only reached the western gates of Gosforth Park in 1904. This was probably due to the voltage drop on the running wire which precluded getting any further.
Other reasons why this happened could have been lack of capital, overestimates of traffic levels arising within the Seaton Burn district, and availability of power supply – it was another four years before NESCO had extended its distribution into the south east Northumberland coalfield.
It is fair to say that after 1904, TTT stagnated in terms of potential expansion of its tram network. With the huge advantage of having a cosy deal for electricity from NESCO and no expensive power station to run, the original can-do spirit from the directors seems to have quickly evaporated.
By 1910 NESCO had reached the lucrative Ashington mining district of south east Northumberland with their state-of-the-art 20KV network, and with two substantial interconnected power stations at Carville and Dunston courtesy of the engineering brilliance of M&M, power supply was no impediment. Indeed, had the NER listened to Charles Merz of M&M, the whole of the Blyth & Tyne section could have been electrified for both passenger and freight. I suppose this would have led the railway to wonder what to do with their legions of G5 and J27 locomotives – but that’s another story.
Bill Donald
13/11/13 – 08:41
Well done, Ronnie, with that comprehensive and well-illustrated history of Tyneside T & T.
A few comments:
1. Newcastle Corporation and Tyneside shared operations on three parts of the Tyneside Tramways network. Tramway A: from Wallsend High Street to the City/Wallsend Boundary on Shields Road. Tramway B: from Wallsend High Street to the City Boundary on Neptune Road (near Tyneside’s depot). Tramway C: northwards from Gosforth along the Great North Road to Gosforth Park.
2. Services operated by the Corporation over Tyneside’s tramways worked from Stanhope Street (and other destinations) to Wallsend High Street via Shields Road, from Westgate Road via Riverside to Wallsend High Street and from the Central Station to Gosforth Park. Corporation trams never operated east of Wallsend High Street, rather like the replacement bus services – Tyneside ran Newcastle Croft Street to North Shields throughout, but the Corporation service 13 only ran as far as Wallsend, taking in Walkerville on the way.
3. Does anyone know where the two Corporation tram services actually reversed in Wallsend? Possibilities are High Street West or Park Road, where trailing crossovers are shown on 1900-1930 maps. It would be nice to think that a ‘semi-circular’ service was at some time operated, i.e. into Wallsend via Shields Road then out again via Park Road, Buddle Street to the Riverside route (and vice versa), but no evidence of that has ever come to light.
4. Tyneside used Corporation tracks from August 1904 for a through service from North Shields to Stanhope Street in Newcastle via Wallsend, Shields Road, Grey’s Monument and Barrack Road. Corporation trams to Stanhope Street usually reversed in Brighton Grove but there is photographic evidence that Tyneside trams ran further, on to Westgate Road and reversed there.
5. From September 1925, Tyneside were able to use the Corporation’s Gosforth Park Light Railway to provide a recreational service from Wallsend and North Shields via the North Road to Gosforth Park, looping back over the Corporation’s West Moor route to reach their own network by a junction on Benton Road (called “Tyneside Crossing”, funnily enough!).
6. Tyneside’s original services had started in September 1902 (Wallsend to North Shields), October 1902 (Wallsend to Gosforth Church Road) and June 1904 (Gosforth to Gosforth Park, this being delayed by extensive railway-related works on the North Road, over the North Eastern Railway’s new Ponteland Branch).
7. After a great deal of wrangling, combined Tyneside/Corporation operations commenced in August 1904 (except for the Neptune Road link, delayed until November 1906 by the building of a new bridge under the NER’s Riverside Branch).
8. Relations between Newcastle Corporation and the Tyneside company had soured during 1901/2, when Tyneside twice had to change their plans for a tram terminus in Gosforth because of the Corporation’s successive extensions up Gosforth High Street. First choice had been the west end of The Grove (authorised but never built), then the west end of Church Road and finally in a side-street diversion via Rothwell Road, necessary to get to the North Road beyond the Corporation’s tracks at Henry Street.
A Tyneside tram on the mixed-gauge North Shields reversing stub in Prudhoe Street, North Shields, 1925. (Photo from Tomorrows-history)
9. Tyneside’s initial terminus in North Shields was at the Prudhoe Street/Spencer Street junction, a few feet west of the Tynemouth & District Company’s reversing loop opposite the Theatre Royal. By June 1911 the famous mixed gauge section was in operation, enabling Tyneside trams to run along the north side of the Tynemouth loop to reach the far end of Prudhoe Street. A very poor photograph, with a Tyneside tram at the extended terminus, JUST shows the third rail in place.
10. Leyland PD2/3 No. 38 (BCN 889) started life as a Northern General vehicle (part of the 1389-1393 batch), hence the registration number and the single aperture destination layout. It was new in March 1951 and transferred to Tyneside in June of that year.
Tony Fox
14/11/13 – 17:45
My impression is that the initial strategy of TT&T was to build tram lines in areas adjacent to the Newcastle Corporation network and then push for running rights into the city centre of Newcastle. As well as Wallsend and Gosforth, the initial plans included a line from Benton to Forest Hall and West Moor then through Gosforth Park. The main traffic would be into Newcastle, not to Wallsend or Gosforth. The through-running agreement of July 1904 came after TT&T had introduced a Bill in Parliament and after a public campaign by TT&T in favour of through-running. It isn’t surprising that relations were difficult between TT&T and Newcastle Corporation for some time after this.
My impression is also that the purpose of the Gosforth – Wallsend line was mainly to link up these areas with the base in Wallsend rather than as a traffic-spinning route in its own right.
Paul Robson
18/11/13 – 09:56
The caption indicates body of Leyland TD5 No 22 was possibly built by Roe, but it’s obviously an ECW design and the location of the photo looks like Nicholas Everitt Park in Oulton Broad where many ECW official photos were taken. It’s unlikely to have a body built in Leeds, drive it to Lowestoft for a photograph and return to Newcastle for delivery. Your thoughts???
Ray Stringer
18/11/13 – 13:41
As I said at the start, Ray, I do not claim that the article is 100% accurate, and I am merely pointing out that some records indicate that Roe built the bodies to an ECW design. As for the location, I am not familiar with the place you mention, so I can’t argue, however, there are no landmark buildings around, and I would have thought that one set of park railings look pretty much the same as any other, so the photo could have been taken quite literally anywhere.
Ronnie Hoye
18/11/13 – 14:30
…..but Geoff Lumb on page 53 of his book Charles H Roe makes reference to May 1940 when ECW couldn’t get materials for a batch of K5Gs for United Counties. Roe couldn’t source some TD7s for West Riding and an agreement was made for Roe to body the K5Gs with various ECW features – including six bay bodywork – to harmonise with the rest of the UCOC fleet.
It’s possible that these weren’t the only ECW/Roe hybrids.
David Oldfield
18/11/13 – 15:19
I’m surprised that someone on this forum hasn’t mentioned the fact that PD2/12, GTY 169 pictured above, found it’s way to Samuel Ledgard after service with Tyneside!
Chris Barker
19/11/13 – 05:45
In a book on ECW (2007) by Malcolm R White the same photo is on page 23 surrounded by three others at the same location and in this instance the picture is attributed to ECW as an official photo taken by their photographer. I live in Lowestoft and the location (Bridge Road, Oulton Broad) has hardly changed and this background has appeared in many of their photos. Another place used by the Coachworks for official photos was on the seafront at North Denes. Apparently they were always taken at the same time of day because the sun and light was agreeable to the photographer and the company. Shame Leyland closed them down.
Ray Stringer
19/11/13 – 16:18
Just to add my six penn’orth to the ECW-Roe discussion, in Duncan Roberts and John Senior’s book ‘Eastern Coach Works of Lowestoft – a retrospect’, mention is made of two senior members of C H Roe staff leaving Leeds for Lowestoft in 1936. William (Bill) Bramham was appointed General Manager of Eastern Counties’ Coach Factory just a few weeks prior to it becoming ECW, and Roe’s former Chief Estimator Ralph Sugden went with him. Mr Sugden was initially Assistant Stores Officer, but later became ECW’s Commercial Manager and Deputy General Manager. How much influence this had on ECW design at the time is not stated, but Mr Bramham had been with Roe since 1926, and Mr Sugden since 1924, so maybe this could explain some of the similarities between Roe and ECW products around this period. The book states that “Bramham is remembered as being a warm and considerate man, who made a point of walking around the whole factory one morning each week, and speaking to everyone”. (I remember being informed by several fitters some years ago that West Yorkshire’s Mr H.N.(Hector) Tuff did the very same thing each week at WY’s Central Works and Body Shop, whilst General Manager there. Sadly when he retired, that lovely gesture went with him).
Ray, I agree wholeheartedly that ECW should not have been allowed to close, especially given the
invaluable expertise of its staff and the excellent build quality of its coachwork. Even when Leyland was in charge, ECW maintained its reputation for good, sound products. If any proof was needed, one only has to consider the length of operational service given by the many ECW-bodied VRTs and Olympians operated in the UK.
Brendan Smith
19/11/13 – 17:58
…..and the same can also be said of Roe who went through a rough patch with early PRV metal frame bodies like the early Atlanteans. They came back to produce one of the best bodies ever (the PRV-Roe standard). However, at they end, the quality was acknowledged better than Park Royal. Indeed, SELNEC said that their best (built) Mancunians were the last (K reg) batch on 33’0″ Fleetlines. [This was strange as they should have been East Lancs bodies but, due to the fire, ELCB asked to be released from the contract. The contract was given to Park Royal (who had already built Mancunians) who had their own problems and sub-contracted them to Roe.]
In 1958, the Northern General Group took delivery of 53 Leyland PD3/4 vehicles. To the best of my knowledge, they were their first 30ft double deck buses; they were also the last rear entrance, although not the last half cabs, that particular label went to the Routemasters of 1963/4. I know a few half cabs were drafted in post NBC, but that was after the lunatics had taken control of the asylum.
The independence NGT allowed its subsidiaries in vehicle choice and specification has been discussed before on this site, and here is another example. 13 were ordered by Sunderland District Omnibus YPT 286 to 298; 286/298 They were primarily bought for use on SDO’s longer routes, and had Burlingham H41/32RD bodies, and very smart they looked in the understated Navy blue and white livery.
The remainder were all H41/32R MCW Orion bodies.
3 for Tyneside NNL 48 to 50; 48/50 Sage green and cream.
5 for Gateshead & District HCN 475 to 479; 75/79 Chocolate and cream.
20 for Northern YPT 825 to 484; 1825/1844 BET red and cream.
12 for Percy Main of which ten AFT 224 to 233; 224/233 for Tynemouth & District and two AFT 234 and 235; 234/235 for Wakefields Motors Ltd. All twelve in BET red and cream.
I think its fair to say that the Orion would not be everyone’s first choice for favourite body, and the least said about the early ones the better. However, lessons were learned and these 1958 versions were a vast improvement on those on the earlier Guy Arab’s and Leyland PD2’s. As was the practice with Gateshead and District, theirs had a Newcastle Corporation style destination layout, but that and different liveries apart, outwardly, all the Orion’s looked to be pretty much the same. The interiors were finished in brown with Rexene covered seats. However, the 12 for Percy Main were finished to a much higher interior specification, as well as a different colour, ‘green’ they had moquette upholstered seats. Shortly after delivery, the front number plates were moved from the radiator to the front panel below the windscreen. AFT 930, had an extended life as a driver training vehicle, and I’m pleased say that it has survived into preservation, and is currently in the extremely capable hands of North East Bus Preservation Trust Ltd where it is undergoing extensive restoration. There was also a Sunderland District Omnibus example ‘YPT 289’ which was listed as awaiting preservation, but it seems to have dropped off the radar, does anyone know anything about it?
AFT 229 fleet number 229 is pictured above round the back of Percy Main depot, and looks to have just arrived from MCW, but in fairness, their vehicles were always well turned out, but this was in an age before ‘pride’ became an outdated idea that was surplus to requirements.
Ronnie Hoye 01/2016
28/01/16 – 09:55
‘The front number plates were moved from the radiator to the front panel below the windscreen’. I have often wondered why, when the majority of operators were content to have the front number plate in the traditional position below the radiator, some chose to locate them in odd places. Below the cab windscreen might have been something to do with better visibility than down at ground level. But why have them up on the waistrail, beneath the destination indicator? Southdown had consecutive batches of buses in this period with number plates ‘up there’ and blow the radiator. So there seems to have been no company policy. And Barton was famous for putting adverts down below the radiator ‘Parcels by Bus’, for example, with the number plate high up on the body. Clearly, they weren’t worried about road dirt obscuring the number plate, as it would have been their own advert that would have been obscured. Was it to do with identification of buses in the depot? Then surely prominent fleet numbers would have been the answer and operators have total control of where these are sited. Does anybody here know the reason ?
Petras409
28/01/16 – 11:39
Usually when operators moved the number plate from the radiator onto the bodywork it was to allow radiators to be swapped from one bus to another without having to swap the plate as well.
John Stringer
28/01/16 – 16:08
YPT 289 is included on the NEBPT’s list of preserved buses with a North-East connection, dated 27/2/14, and that seems to be regarded as the ‘current’ list. It’s given as awaiting restoration, with owner Ritchie, Peterborough. Is there reason to suspect that its status has recently changed?
David Call
29/01/16 – 07:11
I find it fascinating to note the allocated registration series of these buses. Clearly Northern General allowed it’s subsidiaries to use their local office for their particular batch, so we have, AFT, HCN, NNL, and YPT. One (AFT) is just starting a three letter forward series, one (HCN) is about a third through, one (NNL) just over half-way, and the other (YPT) is the last in a forward series, about to start reverse issues. Quite fascinating when all these issuing offices were in the same area! No doubt that all changed in the 1974 sort-out.
Michael Hampton
29/01/16 – 17:35
Yes Michael, prior to 1974, apart from vehicles acquired by way of a takeover, all vehicles new to United, were registered in Darlington ‘HN’, whereas NGT group vehicles were registered in several different authority areas. Vehicles new to Tyneside were Northumberland ‘JR-NL or TY’ Tynemouth & District and Wakefields Motors were Tynemouth ‘FT’. SDO were County Durham ‘PT or UP’ and Gateshead & District were Gateshead ‘CN’. A handfull of Northern vehicles were registered in South Shields ‘CU’ the remainder were all either Gateshead or County Durham. Strangely enough, Sunderland had two registrations, ‘BR & GR’ but neither seem to have been used by the NGT Group
