United Automobile Services 1965 Bristol MW6G ECW B45F
This is the Bristol MW version with what I think has a very good looking front I think they got the idea from the SUL and improved on it. In all the time I have been on the web researching other buses I have never seen a photo of a similar looking “Bristol” with any other operator, if you know of one please let me know. Other single deck buses were beginning to switch over to a single piece windscreens in 1965 as the previous “Roadliner”. I do not think ECWs ever stopped having split windscreens having seen a photo of a 1974 West Yorkshire Road Car RE which still had a split windscreen.
A full list including Bristol and United codes can be seen here.
This particular type of MW front was unique to United and appeared in the mid-sixties towards the end of MW production. Some of them may have been operated by Ribble, following transfer of United’s depot at Carlisle to Ribble in the early days of NBC. Regarding ECW windscreens, they remained split no doubt to minimise the expense of replacement units. My old employer (West Yorkshire Road Car) had problems with cracking on some RELL buses fitted with BET screens. They were quite costly to replace (especially the electrically heated ones), but a one-piece job would have been even more so. Even the later designs such as the Olympian and B51 coaches had split screens, as did such exotica as the bodies on tri-axle Olympian chassis for Gray Linetours in the US, and Hong Kong Citybus. Looks like the last ECW bodies were as practical as the first.
Brendan Smith
03/04/11 – 08:57
As regards BL55/56 these two buses worked out of Darlington on service Darlington/Newcastle which was number 46 and changed to 721/722 when it was NBC, as I drove these on many a shift. They were never on any other route.
United Automobile Services 1962 Bristol MW6G ECW DP41F
Previous shots of United Automobile single deck vehicles on this site have been bus bodied or coach bodied, here we have a dual purpose bodied MW6G. United as like many other of the Tilling group had a different livery for each type of vehicle body. United’s dual purpose vehicles livery was a reversal of their bus livery of red and cream and there coach livery was cream and sage green. There are links at the foot of this copy to see shots of a bus and coach livery. If you want to know the full specification for the MW6G you can look it up on the Bristol abbreviations here. The above photograph was taken at Whitby bus station July 1965 and this bus is not exactly on a long distance run as Whitby Laithes I think is around the Hawsker area which is only 3-4 miles south of Whitby. On saying that though what a lovely run on the North Yorkshire Moors with the North Sea just to the side of you, not sure if this route includes calling at Robin Hoods Bay or not. If you know please leave a comment. Quick links to see the ‘bus’ and ‘coach’ liveries.
Whitby Laithes is just outside Whitby near Stainsacre and before you get to Hawsker. I believe there was and maybe still is a caravan site there. Fantastic picture I would like to see some Durham District (which was part of United) photos if you have any. How well the colour suits the MW. This vehicle probably used to go on longer express services in its time to London etc.
Paul
Silly little anecdote concerning United and the Whitby area. I studied at the Royal Northern College of Music and the father of one of my tutors was a United inspector in the the Whitby area. Pre RE, all Bristols had manual, many crash, gearboxes. At the top of the road to Robin Hoods Bay, at that time open to traffic, was a sign telling bus drivers to stop and engage first gear. The breaking effect of an epicyclic gearbox is not the same as a manual. The poor driver of the first semi-auto RE to go down this road found this out to his cost. He panicked and threw the thing into reverse. The result was the vehicle seized up and when the fitters unscrewed the gearbox housing, a pile of dust fell to the floor.
David Oldfield
The very steep hill from the main road to Whitby into Fylingthorpe is still used by United’s successor Arriva for their 96 Scarborough Whitby Middlesbrough service. For many years it boasted signs at the top and bottom instructing drivers to engage low gear. Halfway up the hill is a hairpin bend which really sorted out the men from the boys! Following an Olympian up the hill was a fairly hair raising business. Nowadays the route is worked by single deckers. A similar steep hill Blue Bank just outside Sleights also used to boast signs instructing United drivers to stop and engage low gear. Indeed so steep is this road it boasts a sand filled run off for the use of out of control vehicles.
Chris Hough
I seem to remember there is sand run off road at the bottom of Garrowby Hill on the York to Bridlington road.
Peter
There is one on the A59 Harrogate to Skipton road after the long decent to Bolton Abbey
Spencer
19/03/11 – 07:48
Can anyone tell me the colour scheme for a Leyland Lion operated by United Automobile in the Bishop Aukland area in the 1912/1920 era.
Brian
19/03/11 – 10:33
Peter is quite right, and the escape lane still exists at the lower end of Garrowby Hill. I once had the most unpleasant but essential task of reporting an East Yorkshire driver who, in a filthy temper all the way from Bridlington Bus Station, carried our full load in a Leyland Leopard down Garrowby Hill in top gear. As I have a very wide experience of driving Leopards I was aware of their tendency to brake fade under heavy usage and this man was very lucky indeed not to have caused a disaster. As would be expected the highly respected EYMS were very concerned and thanked me for the information – not being of a vindictive nature I hope that the man was only reprimanded but the atrocious incident could not possibly go unreported. In one of those contrasts which occur from time to time I had travelled to Bridlington that weekend on a West Yorkshire vehicle (joint services 44/45) which was driven so impeccably that I also wrote to WYRCC with a commendation – soon afterwards that driver was seen in an Inspector’s hat in Leeds !!
Chris Youhill
19/03/11 – 17:20
Chris, we have so much in common. I have this thing about criticism outweighing commendation and that the good should also and always be remarked upon. To his own surprise, I wrote a letter of commendation about a First driver in Sheffield one Christmas Eve, a few years back. The standard of his driving and his interaction with passengers (yes, not customers!!!) was superb. I also got a very nice reply from management thanking me for taking the trouble. I think this is so important.
David Oldfield
19/11/11 – 10:07
I Googled “uas colour schemes” because I’m modelling Morpeth station 1950s and needed to check something. What do I find? An old friend from my college days. I did two summer vacs as a conductor at Whitby depot in 1961 and 1962 and if that isn’t one of the coaches we used on the Leeds run then it’s their twin brother. There wasn’t a service to Whitby Laithes then. The closest would have been the 93 (I think) to Robin Hoods Bay.
Clippie
20/11/11 – 07:35
The mention of Blue Bank reminds me that when I drove for J. J. Longstaff of Mirfield I was half way up with my Bedford VAS/Plaxton when the fan belt snapped. I was very fortunate to be able to back in to a field and then coast down to Sleights to wait to be rescued.
Philip Carlton
12/12/11 – 08:28
Chris Hough refers to advisory/warning signs erected around Whitby on approaches to very steep hills. There is still one such sign at the top of Blue Bank on the approach to Sleights just outside Whitby. I have attached two photos which please use if you wish.
Whilst not the original, it serves the same purpose – it is in fact headed up as ‘TEES’, this company being the eventual successor to United in 1990 prior to the subsequent takeover by Arriva. The present sign is well obscured by a gorse bush but quite visible to the enthusiast. There used also to be signs at the bottom of the hills with the message ‘United – All clear’, but there is none at the foot of Blue Bank now. As far as I know, there are no longer any signs on Lythe Bank above Sandsend and I do not know if any signs still exist at Fylingthorpe but would think it unlikely.
John Darwent
13/12/11 – 10:55
Apart from a few odd balls that were presumably acquired as a result of takeovers, up to the formation of National Bus Company the vast majority of United’s bus and coach fleet was made up of ECW bodied Bristol’s. However, for quite some time Whitley Bay Depot had a non ECW Guy Arab, does anyone know how it came to be there?
Ronnie Hoye
13/12/11 – 11:22
Ronnie, I believe it was a Willowbrook body – possibly a rebody of a war-time model. This would almost certainly be as a result of the takeover of an independent. I believe Durham and District was set up to run independents taken over in the area by United – but Whitley Bay would be far too north to be included.
David Oldfield
13/12/11 – 15:19
I am a regular reader but have not contributed previously. Re the recent posts concerning the warning signs on Blue Bank there is a beautifully restored United Red “Engage Low Gear” sign at the foot of Ruswarp Bank in Ruswarp Village near Whitby. There is quite a few photos to be seen if you Google – “United Ruswarp Compulsory” On Lythe Bank there was an intermediate sign in both directions at the Lodge gates and I recall that for climbing vehicles it read “Drivers may build up gears” or something similar. In the down direction the first sign was for 2nd gear and the intermediate prior to the steepest 1 in 4 portion was for 1st gear. I recall others on the approach to Goathland.
Farmer G
15/12/11 – 15:41
Excellent – thank you for the link Farmer G
John Darwent
14/01/12 – 16:19
The United 1962 Bristol MW6G ECW DP41F is my colour scheme. I worked at Grange Road 1954 – 1958/9 in the drawing office. The drawings came in and we had to colour them in. The CE chose mine…. Yes Durham and District Services was set-up to run the independents United had taken over. In my time in the pump house in Central Works we had Bob I think it was who’d come in from the company at Hurworth that United/DDS had taken over. In the drawing office there was drawings of the “stop and engage low gear” signs.
Mike Hingley
04/05/12 – 08:59
Could anyone tell me please the location of United’s Scarborough depot? Is the building still there?
Goff
04/05/12 – 14:45
The Depot is still there and is now a Car Parking facility rejoicing in the name of the “Palm Court” on Vernon Road near the junction with Falconers Road. It appears to be connected to the up-market Palm Court Hotel. It is clearly shown on Google Earth.
Gordon Green
04/07/13 – 17:35
I seem to recall a double decker bus service in the 1950’s to Castle Park in Whitby, route number 96 when I was about 5 or 6. Does anyone remember this? I seem to remember that the bus went up Chub Hill, along Upgang Lane and Love Lane before heading past White Leys estate.
Mic
20/08/13 – 18:53
A K5G from Scarborough depot was loaned to Whitby Depot for the summer period in the fifties. The service was numbered 98 and ran from the Bus Station to Castle Park via Chubb Hill, John Street, Promenade, Argyle Road, White Point, Love Lane and Stakesby Road. The Destination blind permanently showed “Castle Park”, and the lower blind “White Point The Spa 98. Around 1960 this service was linked with the 99 from the Bus Station to St. Peter’s Road, formerly operated by Heather Motor Services. The resulting cross town service was numbered 96, and was operated by two single-deckers, at first LS5G’s, later MW’s. By the early seventies, Whitby Depot had a single RESL6G, 2862, which was used on the 96 day after day, usually in partnership with an LH; I once overheard a driver stating that Whitby’s manager had tried to get a second RE but had been refused.
Don McKeown
21/08/13 – 06:55
Seeing the earlier post of signs on Blue Bank has got me worried. If the gorse bush has been cut back to reveal the TEES sign saying ‘Stop, Engage 2nd gear Retain to next sign’ and the All Clear sign at the bottom has been removed, what is happening out on the road ? Are there dozens of buses winding their way around North Yorkshire in 2nd gear looking in vain for the All Clear sign ? I sincerely hope not!
Petras409
25/08/13 – 06:33
In Don McK’s posting, he mentions Heather Motor Services at Whitby. I recall that on holiday as a very small boy in the late 40’S, I saw what may well have been a Bedford OB or similar in cream with red lining belonging to Moordale Coaches maybe. I have never been able to find a reference to this firm or where they ran from. Don, do you have any information please? Heather MS is well documented though.
John Darwent
29/08/13 – 06:29
Sorry John, I have no recollection of Moordale coaches in the Whitby area, although I have heard the name; was it a company further north, perhaps in County Durham? Farmer G mentions the restored sign at Ruswarp; this is not strictly accurate, the “United” fleetname at the head of the board has a large U and D, with the NITE smaller and underlined. In reality, only the U was in the larger print with five letters underlined. Further on along the 91 (Malton route) there were a fourth set of gearchanging signs at the “Devil’s Elbow”, between the Saltergate Inn and the Hole of Horcum. Service 94 to Whitby Laithes was a summer only service which survived into the late sixties. It was taken over from Heather Motor Services, along with the 99 St. Peters Road) and 93 (Fylingthorpe)on 29th March 1953. The story of Heather is told in a book by Philip Battersby, published by United Enthusiasts Club in 2005.
Don McKeown
29/08/13 – 06:31
Ah – distant memories of what were my first ever seaside Summer Holidays spent in Whitby. Obviously I’m not the only one on this site to spend holidays there in the late 40’s and early 50’s. On the second and third of those holidays we stayed at the Oxford Hotel opposite the Spa and the highlight for me was the regular passage of the Castle Park bus. Isn’t it funny how the ‘old’ registration numbers stick in your mind and here is one – CHN 105 passing by on a regular basis all day. For years I recalled it as a K5G with a modern post war body but it was only when I found a copy of the Prestige book on United that I found a photo by G H F Atkins of its sister CHN 106 and discovered that it was not what it first seemed to be. In fact it was a GO5G originally fitted with an odd ball ECW body (14 ft 3in height) but with a lowbridge layout. They were rebodied in 1949 with standard ECW lowbridge bodies which had to be modified to fit the GO5G chassis. Could the cream/red Bedford OB have been one of Howards’s Tours who used to load in front of the Esplanade Gardens for their excursions ??
Gordon Green
03/09/13 – 16:30
Gordon, I have looked at an image of a Howards’ OB and the colours suggest you may well be correct with your suggestion.I cannot remember whether Howards had any stage services but seem to think that the “phantom” Moordale /Moorsholm /Moorview or whatever Coaches served the Esk Valley area such as Danby and Lealholm. Possibly an ex-Howards OB retaining the paint scheme but with new owner – who knows?
John Darwent
16/09/13 – 06:31
I’ve just noticed Ronnie’s query from December 2011 (!) about a non-ECW Guy ‘decker at Whitley Bay. David is quite right in attributing it to the formation of DDS. It was GGH1 (GHN 69), a Guy Arab III which had been ordered by Darlington Triumph, one of the constituent companies – along with ABC and Express – of DDS. Its chassis was delivered to DDS in May 1951 and originally intended to operate for them, but was actually ‘transferred’ to United who had it bodied by Willowbrook as a highbridge 58-seater. It entered service in June 1952 at Carlisle depot but, later, found its way to Whitley Bay where it was often to be found on the 5 and 17 services and where, I believe, it ended its days.
Alan R Hall
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
28/05/14 – 07:46
Regarding the question by John Darwent and others above. Moordale Bus services Ltd who ran in the Whitby area. The company was actually based in Newcastle and survived in various forms until takeover by British Bus in the 1990s. They also had a garage at Danby and ran; Loftus-Liverton Mines-Liverton Village-Moorsholm, Castleton-Danby-Lealholm-Ugthorpe-Sandsend-Whitby, Loftus-Liverton-Danby-Lealholm-Glaisdale, Danby-Fryup Dale (Sats only) Even in the the post-war traffic boom these must have been marginal and the whole operation was abandoned in 1954. Just Loftus-Liverton was replaced, by Saltburn Motor Services, and even then I believe there was a gap before this started.
Phil Drake
28/05/14 – 16:03
Thanks for that Phil. Very enlightening.
John Darwent
07/06/14 – 08:24
I have been in the Whitby area this week and have found another of the old (but badged ‘Tees’) ‘compulsory stop engage 1st gear’ signs at the foot of Saltersgate Bank on the A169 Whitby Pickering road. This is opposite the sadly closed Saltersgate Inn where the peat fire was aid to have been burning for nearly 300 years. There used to be one at the top for descending vehicles but I could not see this as I drove past. I wonder if Yorkshire Coastliner observe the spirit of the old signs ?
United Automobile Services 1964 Bristol RELH6G ECW C43F
104 VHN, was new in January 1964, with the fleet number BRC4; I am not sure when the last of the type were delivered, but the ECW bodied RELH6s were among the last United vehicles to carry this understated and distinctive livery. Some of the early Plaxton bodied Bristols did, but most had the ghastly, or should that be ghostly, all white, one size fits all NBC livery. United coaches had a well-deserved reputation for passenger comfort, obviously they were used on other duties but the primarily role for many of these was the long haul to London, and so United specified the more spacious 43 seat variants, whereas most of the Tilling group had the 47-seat version. Arguably, other vehicles of the era may have been better looking, but as far as build quality and reliability is concerned, these were as good as it gets. The level of comfort they offered, coupled with their exceptional ride quality and the ultra reliability of the Gardner H6LXB engine made them an act that was extremely hard to follow, and many would say has never been surpassed. Once in London, the crews stayed until the next day before returning, but the vehicles had a turnaround of about three hours, during which they were cleaned out and refuelled at Samuelsons. In a 24 hour period, they would do a full round trip of over 600 miles, and it was nothing unusual for them to clock up over 4,000 miles a week, most of them accumulated phenomenal mileages during their lives. I know that several from other companies have survived, but I’m not aware that any of United’s have.
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye
27/03/14 – 06:58
I’ve said it before. RELH/ECW – possibly the ultimate class act.
David Oldfield
27/03/14 – 06:59
I happened on this web-site by accident searching for any books on “United” I started with the Company at the Scarborough depot in 1955 and this was intended just for the season, and I was employed as a Conductor, after two seasons being laid off in September known as Surplus to requirements I was finally given a full time job in 1957 and after a variation of jobs finally retired in 1990 having been transferred to E Y M S because of deregulation. I have one Bus photograph of fleet no B G L 59 and it was taken when I was in the Driving school, I think it was a 5 Cylinder Gardner, I have other Memorabilia such as long service awards, safe driving awards and I still have my P S V badge BB 40875, and also lots of memories of ex staff.
Gordon England
28/03/14 – 07:11
Couldn’t agree more David, and thanks for posting Ronnie. The coach looks simply glorious.
Brendan Smith
28/03/14 – 07:11
On paper, a livery of olive green and cream sounds rather less than prepossessing, but, in practice, the United coach livery was a peerless example of dignified restraint that exuded quality. How one yearns for the return of such schemes in place of the present day ostentatious eyesores from the likes of Best Impressions. The Bristol RELH was a classic coach, and I firmly believe that, updated to meet modern requirements, it could still present a serious challenge in the present day market place.
Roger Cox
28/03/14 – 07:12
Here’s one of the fine machines I captured in 1970, doing its ‘job’ on the M1 south on a wet Sunday afternoon in Derbyshire.
Berisford Jones
28/03/14 – 17:51
Couldn’t agree more on every count Roger.
David Oldfield
28/03/14 – 17:52
The ultimate quality coach; I don’t think any other coach was better looking – except perhaps similar vehicles in Royal Blue livery. These coaches were a joy to drive – some drivers complained about the manual gearbox version, but I had no trouble with them. No other type of coach had such a relaxing, subdued sound, even when travelling at high speed.
Don McKeown
28/03/14 – 17:53
Nice action photo, Berisford. Amazing to think that, on Ronnie’s calculations, this vehicle would have clocked up some 1,248,000 miles by 1970!
Chris Hebbron
29/03/14 – 07:45
Don, that relaxing subdued sound was the superbly engineered Gardner engine. Even when flat out they were revving at less that 2.000 RPM, which is only about twice what a modern car will tickover at, so a run on the motorway was just a leisurely stroll to them. Chris, as I said, they had other duties, but 600 plus miles a day was the norm on the London run. Not every depot that had them operated that service, so in all probability they would have been periodically swapped around in an effort to even out the mileage. Nevertheless, in those days odometers returned to zero at 100,000 miles. and I know for a fact that by the time some of the first intake at Jesmond depot were a year old, most of them were nearing the end, and some had passed their second time round the clock.
Ronnie Hoye
29/03/14 – 07:47
It’s absolutely incredible to think that this superb coach was new fifty years ago! I had the pleasure of riding on a Midland General example a few times, manual gearbox, a turn of speed which was breathtaking and a ride which was almost silent. Today’s National Express offerings don’t even come close!
Chris Barker
29/03/14 – 08:19
A front view of sister United Autos Bristol RE 105 VHN. Seen here in Doncaster on a Service 203 to Newcastle.
Stephen Howarth
29/03/14 – 09:06
Sorry to show my ignorance but bearing in mind the plaudits given for the quiet and smooth ride of the RELH, can somebody please bring me up to speed with the engine configuration and drive train on these classic vehicles.
John Darwent
29/03/14 – 12:01
Series 1 sanctioned for the nationalised Tilling/Transport Holding Company set up. Rear engined – most Gardner 6LXB, some Leyland O.600 or O.680. Bristol 5 speed synchromesh manual gearbox. [Air suspension standard fitment.] Series 2 on open market. Similar drive train/power source as Series 1. Gardner 6LXB/Leyland 0.680 in roughly 2:1 proportion. Menu of fittings and options for open market which also meant that the air suspension became an option rather than standard. 5 speed epicyclic (semi-automatic) gearbox became standard on Series 2. Series 3 never saw the light of day. Further improvements were at the planning stage when BLMC pulled the plug on the RE in favour of the Leyland National but also axed the RELH in favour of an improved Leyland Leopard. A spring parking brake got as far as at least one West Yorkshire RE.
David Oldfield
29/03/14 – 18:47
Just to add a little to David’s comprehensive note, the engine in the RE was horizontally mounted, unlike the current crop of ‘modern’ rear engined single decks. The gearbox was mounted forward of the rear axle and the drive from the engine went over the axle to the gearbox and then back again to the differential. This configuration allowed the fitment of a propshaft of adequate length to allow for suspension travel in the drive train. Some other designs, notably the Seddon RU, fell lamentably short on this design requirement.
Roger Cox
29/03/14 – 18:48
Thank you for that info David. I seem to recall that RE’s had longitudinally mounted engines rather than transversely as became the fashion in service buses. Noting from a previous post that you have had the pleasure in later life of driving RE’s, you may be able to comment on the gear change of the manual models bearing in mind the lengthy linkage presumably involved. How come an academically minded O.E. as yourself came to be at the wheel of such revered vehicles? Fat Nat would spin in his grave!
John Darwent
30/03/14 – 07:45
The manual gearbox was something a driver needed to make an effort to master but once mastered it was easy and light to use although there seemed to be too big a gap between 2nd and 3rd gears which could be a problem on rising gradients. The most difficult thing to master when timing the gear changes was hearing the engine revs due to the overall quietness of the body and engine especially with a good load on. One thing to beware of was selecting reverse with the heater control in the midway position on the ECW bodies as it was easy to get a finger trapped between gearstick and the control.
Diesel Dave
30/03/14 – 07:45
John. Nat retired after my first year and Flink was acting Head until the Sharrock era. Strangely enough my (fully MOT approved) driving instructor was a master at KES. He also got me through the Advanced test (IAM) whilst I was at music college. I had been interested in buses from a babe in arms but it was my oldest friend from KES who twisted my arm to get my PSV. [He is about to retire as a Managing Director of Stagecoach Bus.] I only ever rode on Series 1s and only drove Series 2s in preservation. I write after playing for a concert in Kingston last night and about to play a morning service prior to driving RML2440 this afternoon on the new Watford running day. [So no rest for the wicked.] Roger’s addendum is, of course, correct.
David Oldfield
30/03/14 – 09:44
Thank you Diesel Dave for the interesting comments and scenario. David O, what an amazing tale. I was a few years earlier than your goodself at KES and there was little interest in transport matters at the time. Having said that, if we go earlier still there was Terry Ellin, later to find fame with his restoration of Leyland Comet coach MHY 765. Hope you have a great day with RML 2440.
John Darwent
31/03/14 – 07:19
The layout of the Bristol RE was an absolute masterpiece in chassis design, offering a low step height and comfortable ride for passengers, yet keeping the engineering staff happy by offering easy access to all the major mechanical components. From a driver’s viewpoint the RE did not seem to show any of the tail-heavy characteristics of other rear-engined single-deckers, due to the better weight distribution of its major components, and from the traffic department perspective the RE would be suitable for PAYE operation. As David O. comments, the Series I chassis for the THC ‘Tilling’ fleets used Gardner’s 6HLX engines in the main, although a few operators did specify the smaller 6HLW. When Leyland took a 25% stake in Bristol (and ECW) in the mid-sixties this allowed the company access to the open market, and the Leyland 0.600 engine option became available, with the 0.680 following a little later. Interestingly the RE Series II was offered with AEC AH505 and AH691 engine options, but sadly none were ordered. (Bet you’d liked to have heard one of those David. The 691 would have sounded gorgeous coupled to the RE exhaust). Ulsterbus specified Gardner’s more powerful 6HLXB (Up to 180bhp available at 1850rpm compared to the HLXs 150bhp at 1700 rpm) in some of its later RELL6Gs. They must have sounded grand as well.
Brendan Smith
31/03/14 – 12:44
John. Had a very good day with RML2440, thanks. Didn’t know where I was going (but didn’t get lost) and discovered new bits of Metropolitan Hertfordshire. Didn’t realise Terry was an OE. In my time we had a informal “Bus Club” of 6th formers and met under the balcony in the hall. Two of us became musicians/music teachers, one the Stagecoach director, one an English teacher (and subsequently an operator), one a civil servant and one a research scientist – and all, as you say, academically minded graduates. Brendan. It would take a lot to beat a ZF Reliance but I did know about the AEC option for REs. Now that would have been spectacular. [Reading documents referring to LT and the Merlin one gets the impression that, apart from the “breaking back” syndrome found in other rear engined vehicles, the other problem was cooling. Much of this centred round failing convoluted piping caused in part by the lay out in the engine compartment. Presumably, this would not be a problem the an AEC/RE either?]
David Oldfield
02/04/14 – 08:23
Berisford’s action shot of one of United’s fine RELH6Gs on the motorway reminded me of a ‘minor difficulty’ that beset West Yorkshire when it took delivery of a batch of six RELH/ECW coaches in 1970. These fine machines were to have been delivered with Gardner 6HLX engines, but due to demand for such outstripping supply at the time, Leyland 0.680 engines were substituted. (The coaches were delivered as CRG17-22, but renumbered CRL1-6: CWY498-503H). Upon entering service, it soon became apparent that an unforeseen problem was causing the company some embarrassment. The Gardner engines were to have been rated at the usual 150bhp at 1700rpm, but the substituted Leyland units developed 150bhp at 2200rpm. However, as the rear axle ratios were geared for the lower engine speeds of the Gardners, the higher rpm of the Leyland engines gave the CRLs an impressive (and illegal) top speed on the motorway. After several cautions from the boys in blue regarding 85 mph West Yorkshire coaches, the fuel injection pumps were removed and recalibrated to give 150bhp at 1800 rpm. This was a much quicker, cheaper and more practical solution to the problem, rather than replacing the rear axle innards. After this modification, things settled down to a gentler pace. Drivers did report though that the Leylands were still a little faster on the flat, but that the Gardners would still pass them on the hlls.
Brendan Smith
07/04/14 – 16:06
I noticed one of the recent articles on the RE mentions action shot on the motorway well here are some more. The cab shot is a Royal Blue Bristol RE Manual gearbox being overtaken by a Crosville Semi-Automatic Bristol RE on our way to the Duxford bus ralley in 2006. Both vehicles are in preservation.
Michael Crofts
08/04/14 – 07:53
Good action shots, Michael. I see 90mph on the speedo of the first shot, so that overtaking RE must’ve really been motoring!!!
Chris Hebbron
08/04/14 – 07:54
Brendan, it was much the same story with the NGT Group Fanfare’s. The Wakefields AEC Reliance versions were a fraction faster on the flat, but the NGT Gardner engined GUY Arabs would leave them for dead uphill.
Ronnie Hoye
08/04/14 – 11:04
Sorry to shatter the illusion Chris, but the vehicle is fitted with a tachograph, so the speed is recorded in KPH not MPH. 100 KPH is 62.5 MPH.
Ronnie Hoye
08/04/14 – 16:58
You’re right, Ronnie, I’m really shattered!
Chris Hebbron
08/04/14 – 16:58
Not that something approaching that wouldn’t have been possible when new. Did over the ton in a ZF Reliance (I wasn’t driving) on the A1M before Tachos and 70mph limits.
David Oldfield
09/04/14 – 08:18
I seem to recall that our motorways, initially, had no speed limits on them. However,coaches, in particular, were reaching speeds of 90mph (in the very late ’50’s and early ’60’s) and there were a few accidents, mainly due to tyre technology being up to the new challenges, hence the introduction of the 70mph speed limit. I can recall doing 75mph in my car on the M4 and being well-overtaken by coaches!
Chris Hebbron
09/04/14 – 13:11
Doesn’t Chris mean ‘tyre technology “NOT” being up to new challenges’?
Stephen Howarth
09/04/14 – 18:00
Yes, I did!
Chris Hebbron
12/04/14 – 08:06
Both coaches were cape able of exceeding 70 mph.
Michael Crofts
Vehicle reminder shot for this posting
24/04/14 – 08:12
How well I remember these lovely coaches which finally saw the ECW bodied models delivered in 1970. In my younger days I often travelled to London on the dsytime service returning some days later on the overnight 206 to Middlesbrough and without doubt the real highlight of my holiday was the journey to and from London on board one of these coaches. It was sad to see them demoted in later life with headrests cut down and I seem to remember even the roof lights bolted down. Sadly none ever survived long enough of the 95 delivered to see preservation.
Here is an early view of two of the examples taken at Hawes in North Yorkshire in October 1972. Fleet number 1253 was based at Redcar who in United days used to operate excursions and this outing was one of the popular six lakes ones. They also ran another E registered example. It’s one of my early views so sorry about the quality.
Ken Hoggett
27/05/14 – 15:23
Ken’s comment about their latter days is spot on. I encountered them when they were running longer stage routes such as Scarborough-Helmsley and Berwick-Seahouses in their last years. They still rode well and sounded good but they looked terribly down-at-heel internally. Some (cf the EFE model) ended up in NBC red- enough said.
United Automobile Services 1967 Bristol RELH6G ECW C43F
United had a small Garage at Pickering where the forecourt doubled up as a Bus Station. Here 4343 (originally RE43) is loading for a trip along the A170 seventeen miles to Scarborough. I expect this vehicle retained its manual gearbox which I would think could be tricky on a Stage Service. It is a good looking bus/coach – shame about the livery!
Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild
12/05/20 – 06:48
Are you sure it had the manual gearbox? Crosville’s E registered RELH6Gs had semi automatic boxes. Even in bus livery, these coaches looked beautiful!
Don McKeown
13/05/20 – 07:03
Probably was semi automatic. West Yorkshire’s E registered RELH were as well. As regards manual boxes I remember some West Yorkshire drivers struggling with earlier B, C, and D registered RELL buses.
Stephen Clough
14/05/20 – 06:52
According to United Automobile Services Part Two by messrs. Townsin, Groves and Banks (Venture Publications), this batch RE41-65 were the first coaches to be delivered with semi-automatic gearboxes.
John Gibson
16/05/20 – 06:33
It might be 17 miles from Pickering to Scarborough, but three times a day (twice on Sundays) the route began in Ripon, via Thirsk, Ampleforth and Helmsley to Pickering and Scarborough, distance of some 60+ miles, some of it on minor roads. In 1976 this took around three and a half hour end to end. The route number groups with other Ripon services, but how it was crewed is a mystery to me. I guess Ripon crews were relieved for a break at Pickering, as two of the through journeys had only five minutes turn round at Scarborough. I would be very interested to know more about the operation of the 128.
Andy Buckland
17/05/20 – 06:37
Andy’s comment reminded me that in the James Herriot book “Vets might fly” James bunked off from his RAF training in Scarborough one Sunday afternoon and travelled by bus to “Darrowby” (which we now know to be Thirsk) to see his pregnant wife, Helen. He had less than an hour before he had to catch the return bus – and as I recall it, his absence without leave was never detected! I assume that this escapade, like many others, was founded in real life.
Stephen Ford
18/05/20 – 06:34
Stephen, by 1976, the date of my timetable, this would not be possible on a Sunday, with just two through journeys each way. You had to leave Scarborough at 10:45 to reach Thirsk by 13:35, returning at 18:10. Now, if in earlier years there had been a third return, as during the week, then 12:45 from Scarborough, arrive Thirsk 15:40, return at 18:27 was possible. Add a bit of poetic licence and we perhaps have the basis for the story.
Andy Buckland
20/05/20 – 07:18
I have been looking at the summer timetable for 1957, and it shows that from 7th July to 14th September, there were three journeys each way between Scarborough and Ripon on Sundays. If he left Scarborough at 10.45, he would reach Thirsk at 1.40 p.m. He could then leave Thirsk at 3.50 p.m. arriving back at Scarborough at 6.40 p.m. So yes, this journey would have been feasible as long as it was made at the height of the summer.
John Gibson
20/05/20 – 07:19
I travelled on service 128 from Helmsley to Ripon in 1976 (MWs all the way from Middlesbrough to Harrogate!!). If memory isn’t playing tricks, we had to change buses at Sproxton, west of Helmsley, and the respective buses then returned home. I can’t remember if the change was advertised in the timetable. A trip form Ross-on-Wye to Abergavenny by Red and White in 1970 (MWs again) certainly involved a change at Broad Oak even though the timetable showed the buses working through.
Phil Drake
21/05/20 – 06:56
And there we have the answer, Phil! Certainly there is no reference to a change of vehicle at Sproxton, indeed it does not even merit entry in the timetable, but if you look at the times for Helmsley and Ampleforth, then buses would cross roughly where Sproxton is. What makes it strange is that Sproxton is only a few minutes west of Helmsley, where some journeys stood time and interchange facilities are much better. Was there perhaps some unwritten rule that Helmsley to Scarborough was dedicated to Pickering/Scarborough drivers and Ripon was “another company”.
Andy Buckland
21/05/20 – 06:56
Definitely semi-auto, we had 4344 at Darlington for a while, not the fastest, comfortable for both driver and passengers it did what it was supposed to do. I used to call it the old mans bus.
John Wake
31/08/20 – 06:27
Regarding the operation of the Ripon to Scarborough service, I lived in Ripon in the late 1960s, and at that time the buses definitely worked through on the whole route, but the drivers did not. When opposing vehicles met, usually in the middle of nowhere, they stopped and the drivers changed over, returning whence they had come from. I presume that with three services each way on weekdays, a Scarborough based vehicle would spend alternate nights at Ripon garage, and vice versa. Obvious the drivers would get back home at the end of their shifts.
Chris Appleby
03/09/20 – 06:18
Where the garage was may be seen here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/ It would appear that the property was modified to become the carpet showroom it is in the photograph. I have a snapshot photograph I took on Sunday 23 July 1972 which has four single deckers parked within. //www.ipernity.com/
