United Services – Dennis Loline Mk I – SOU 473


Copyright John Stringer

United Services
1958
Dennis Loline MkI 6LW
East Lancs. H37/31RD

One of a batch of 34 Lolines delivered to Aldershot & District in 1958 numbered 336-369 (SOU 445-477), SOU 473 was withdrawn by them in 1969. It was then bought by W. R. & P. Bingley of Kinsley, who along with Cooper’s of South Elmsall and Everett’s of South Kirkby traded under the name ‘United Services’. It is pictured here resting at Bingley’s Upton depot in April 1973.

Photograph and Copy contributed by John Stringer


13/02/13 – 04:47

SOU 473_2

Here is a photograph of this bus when in service with its original owner, Aldershot and District. It is seen in Farnham Road bus station, Guildford in 1961. The Aldershot fleet was generally impeccably turned out, so that the tree damage to the front dome is surprising. The Loline I was a close copy of the Bristol LD Lodekka, but axles, clutch and gearbox were all of Dennis design. Unlike the Lodekka, the Loline always had a full air braking system. These Lolines were thoroughbreds to drive, better in every respect, in my estimation, to the Leyland PD2 and PD3, and the AEC Regent V machines that I had encountered at Halifax. Though equipped with the modestly powerful Gardner 6LW, which A&D rated at the full manufacturer’s setting, they were good performers, and, with a top speed touching 50 mph, quite fast for the time (1958) when they were introduced (and when the legal maximum speed for a PSV was 30 mph). The high quality East Lancs bodywork completed the specification of a supremely capable and reliable bus.

Roger Cox


13/02/13 – 04:50

Just between duties or withdrawn? Certainly not the pristine condition one normally associated with her original owner!

Pete Davies


13/02/13 – 14:43

I suppose that replacing a dented panel or wing to maintain standards of presentation was one thing, but straightening out a roof dome once battered by trees would be rather a big job – time consuming and therefore expensive, and the chances were that once done there was a distinct likely hood of it returning again with the same problem soon after.

John Stringer


15/02/13 – 12:06

Good to see these pictures of a superbly well-proportioned bus with, as Roger points out, first-rate innards to match. And if the 6LW was modestly-powered on paper, 112GHP (Gardner horsepower) was worth 125 of anyone else’s. Two of this batch fortunately survive: SOU 465, a regular attender at events, and SOU 456, still under restoration.
I prefer the Loline I radiator-grille shape to the later square-with-rounded-corners design.
I’ve got a Loline maintenance manual with sectional drawings of a bewildering variety of alternative gearboxes. Apparently they even offered a six-speed version, which I’m sure was never fitted to a production bus. I’ll post them here soon.

Ian Thompson


15/02/13 – 17:07

Ian, your extensive knowledge of, and fellow enthusiasm for Dennis machinery is very welcome on this site. I certainly never knew that a six speed option was available for the Loline. That would have given a 6LX powered bus an extraordinary performance. The generally accepted view is that the Loline was little more than a licence built Lodekka, but this is an over simplification, particularly in the case of the Loline III. I think I am right in believing that even the Loline I had a gearbox (the ‘V’ type?) that lowered the transmission line without the need for transfer gears as fitted to the Lodekka. The Loline transmission would have thus been more positive and efficient than the Bristol equivalent. The pre Hestair Dennis company had a high level of engineering expertise, but its commercial policies were very indecisive and often misguided. The firm nearly fell victim to a takeover by Seddon before Hestair became interested. Had that happened, or had Leyland made a move to gobble up the Guildford manufacturer, the outcome would surely have been oblivion. ADL may be a different animal from the Dennis of fond memory, and, alas, the superb fire engine business is no more, but it is the only significant bus chassis manufacturer now left in the UK.

Roger Cox


16/02/13 – 07:16

I think SOU 473 was bought by Everett’s in spring 1969, and later passed to Bingleys when Everett’s ceased to operate. I have no record of the takeover date or SOU’s withdrawal date, if anyone knows, please tell me! This was a superb bus to travel in, very speedy and much more spacious than any previous United Services vehicle. The rear door was air-powered, sliding forward into a pocket – when opened whilst decelerating for a stop, it crashed heavily onto the front of the pocket, no chance of dozing off despite the comfortable seats.

Roger Townend


16/02/13 – 07:17

I have a Loline sales brochure from about 1960 and this shows that the standard gearbox offering was the 5 speed V type. Interestingly a 4 speed SCG epicyclic was also offered but I have no knowledge of it ever being fitted. In 1967 Halifax took 5 Lolines with 6LX engines and a five speed overdrive epicyclic gearbox. The GM at the time, Geoffrey Hilditch, described them as having “a useful turn of speed”. I believe he meant that it went like the wind!

Paragon


16/02/13 – 10:15

Were these Halifax Lolines not the same ones which they sold to West Riding when they were only two to three years old.

They must have run out of wind rather quickly.

Andrew Beever


16/02/13 – 13:38

Andrew, I recall reading some years ago that the Halifax batch were bought for a specific purpose, namely a specialised route needing vehicles of this specification for the best performance. This, I believe, they did well. However, once the PTE came into existence, my memory is that the route or the perceived needs changed, and the batch ended up on local routes. They weren’t suited to this role at all! This meant that their early sale to West Riding was convenient for both PTE and W. Riding. I am only going on memories of what I have read, not local experience, but others may have more specific details. In the early days of Classic Bus magazine, there was a three-bus test drive including an AEC Renown (King Alfred), a Bristol Lodekka(Hants & Dorset) and a Dennis Loline (Aldershot & District. The drivers were expecting Lodekka or Renown to win out, but the Loline beat the others into the corner!

Michael Hampton


16/02/13 – 14:42

In 1962, on two occasions, I took a bus from Southsea to Milford (Surrey). I can’t recall the Southdown vehicle to/from Petersfield, but do recall the A&D Lolines north of Petersfield on the challenging A3 route. They were comfortable, quiet and performed very well.

Chris Hebbron


16/02/13 – 17:00

Remember that West Riding were in a pretty bad way with their Wulfrunians and acquired a lot of second hand Lodekkas to keep them going…so a few Lolines added a certain standardisation. …. the other story (SCT61) is that the Lolines were for the Calder Valley and when Tod came on board, even they couldn’t get in the newly integrated garage.

Joe


16/02/13 – 18:10

By their very nature, the Halifax Lolines were best suited to lengthy, high speed runs, which were not characteristic features of the local Halifax topography. Whilst they were suitable for the inter urban ‘B’ services such as the 43 to Huddersfield or the 48/49 Brighouse – Hebden Bridge, these busy routes were well within the capabilities of the PD2s, PD3s, Regent Vs and Fleetlines in the fleet. The Lolines migrated to the Meredith and Drew contracts where their remarkable road performance (GGH admits to these machines being capable of 55 mph plus) proved entirely suitable to the task, but, of necessity, a conductor had to be carried on what was essentially a coach service. When West Riding, desperate for Wulfrunian replacement stock, made an enticing offer, they were sold on in 1970. However, Geoff Hilditch, in his book “Steel Wheels and Rubber Tyres” (Vol 2) states that “this would not have happened had we then known of the Millwood (i.e,Todmorden) garage problem that would face us in 1971 They would have been ideal for the Halifax – Todmorden – Burnley service.” There was nothing wrong with the buses. They were just unsuited to much of the tortuous route system that was indigenous to the Halifax area.

Roger Cox


17/02/13 – 07:27

…..and, of course, the North Western Lolines – along with the Renowns – were for long distance routes rather than urban stop/start.

David Oldfield


17/02/13 – 07:28

A “cartoon-style” line-drawing of one of the Halifax Lolines was used as the basis for a recruitment poster during the early 1970s: “I’m blue because I have no driver” – featuring blue Loline with weeping eyes/headlights. This was painted onto a blank window panel in Crossfield Bus Station near the 76 (Bradford v Queensbury) stand. I remember, as my 6/7 year-old self, thinking why didn’t they picture a Regent/Titan/Fleetline instead of a “made-up” double-decker – of course by then (post Hebble-Halifax JOC merger) the Lolines had moved on, and I’d never noticed/come across them. But what made the artist/HPT choose one of their most un-typical buses? Other similar advertisements included one for the 68/X68 to Sheffield featuring one of the Seddon Pennine RU DPs, and one for private hire featuring – I think! – one of the ex-Timpsons Park Royal Royalist Reliances . . . I said “I think”, perhaps it was just a Panorama Elite.

Philip Rushworth


17/02/13 – 07:29

SOU 465

Ian mentions above that one of the two surviving Aldershot and District Loline I machines is SOU 465. Here is a picture of this bus taken on 25 June 1967 in Petersfield. It is operating the lengthy 24 route to Guildford on which Chris would have travelled to reach Milford. I, too frequently sampled this route and its Loline Mk.Is in the days before I acquired a PSV Licence. Later, as driver with A&D at Aldershot circa 1966-68, I did drive on the parallel route 6 between Aldershot and Petersfield (Steep village), though Loline IIIs had taken over by that time. Interestingly, the only joint operation into Aldershot was Route 12 to Reading, which was shared with Thames Valley. When an Lodekka suffered a defect or failure at the Hampshire end of the service, it was replaced by a Loline, and very often the Thames Valley driver was reluctant to hand it back again later in return for the repaired Lodekka. I genuinely cannot recall any instances of a Loline failing at the Reading end of the route though I expect this must have happened now and again. Aldershot & District had much higher engineering standards than Thames Valley.

Roger Cox


17/02/13 – 08:50

That’s a lovely photo which brings back lots of memories, Roger. I recognise the place well. Thx. It was a long route – the better part of 30 miles in total, hilly and twisting in places, all taken with panache. I worked in Guildford and had a soft spot for the old ‘All Aboard & Risk it’, as it was nicknamed! And an Aunt-in-Law was once a clippie with them during the war, around Woking.

Chris Hebbron


17/02/13 – 08:51

I think you may be right about engineering standards, Roger.

David Oldfield


17/02/13 – 12:23

Your mention of “I’m blue because I have no driver”,Phlip, reminded me of a quiz a couple of years ago on a blog I follow. I’ve found it here. I did badly! See HERE: //tinyurl.com/c97j9kf

Chris Hebbron


18/02/13 – 08:26

Roger’s comments about engineering standards at Thames Valley remind me of the set of pictures I have of a whole variety of other operators’ vehicles which had to be drafted into Reading to help out because of vehicles off the road, firstly in May and September 1973 (London Country RTs and some Royal Blue MWs) and then again in April 1974 and August/September 1974, when a variety of buses came from Ensign Bus, (ex Portsmouth, Swindon, S&M of Hadleigh, LT) together with a couple of Reliances and a couple of Lolines from Reading Transport. It appears that the merger with A&D didn’t result in a migration of engineering standards to Reading!

Alan Murray-Rust


18/02/13 – 10:57

It may have been coincidence, or simply made the situation worse: it was that period in the early seventies which was also the period of (British) Leyland’s worst “hour” – not only take it or leave it but you can’t get it (spares) and we won’t make/supply it (Bristol RE). Thames Valley were not the only operator in that position. Leyland disease – oh I’d forgotten late deliveries as well – certainly affected Sheffield/SYPTE and others as well.

David Oldfield


Vehicle reminder shot for this posting


20/02/13 – 05:57

Those six Halifax Lolines may have contributed to Dennis’ survival as a manufacturer today (even if in a different form). Mr GGH (as he is referred to above) was impressed by his contacts with Dennis, and on moving to Leicester a few years later, encouraged Dennis to develop the Dominator double-decker as an antidote to the “leylandisation” of the British bus manufacturing industry. Dennis had only dabbled in the bus market from c. 1950 until then, but from the mid/late 1970s developed new ranges to suit the new challenges. And the rest, as they say, is history. I guess “Mr GGH” was embarking on a wider plan than he realised, thus making it still possible to buy a British-made bus today.

Michael Hampton


20/02/13 – 09:35

In 1963 the magazine Commercial Motor published the results of a road test of 447, an Aldershot and District Mk3 Loline. It produced the best fuel consumption figures of any double decker tested by the magazine since the Second World War.
Fully laden with the equivalent of 68 passengers the testers obtained 12.75 mpg at two stops per mile and 9.25 mpg at six stops per mile. The fleet average for A&D Lolines at that time was 13.5 mpg.
One of the testers was the well known transport author Alan Townsin and he describes travelling on an undulating stretch of the A3 at an average speed of 32.4 mph and obtaining 15.7 mpg. He gives the top speed at about 47mph.
He describes all controls as “very satisfying” and had that “indefinable feel of a thoroughbred vehicle”
Praise indeed.

I think it is Paragon


21/02/13 – 06:22

I drove Loline Is and IIIs from Aldershot Depot in 1966-68, after which I returned to the administrative side of the bus industry. Without doubt, the Loline was a superb bus, predictable, stable and refined. The A&D Loline III was rather livelier than the Mark I by virtue of the lighter bodywork by Alexander or Weymann, and its Dennis gearbox had a modified gate that emulated the Reliance pattern, making the engagement of overdrive rather simpler. Those fuel economy figures are way beyond the reach of “modern” buses, and, I suspect, the reliability statistics for today’s machinery are equally inferior. Progress? What progress?

Roger Cox

United Services – Daimler CVD6 – LTO 10

United Services Daimler CVD6

United Services
1950
Daimler CVD6
Duple L56RD

I fondly remember visiting Bingley’s (one of the United Servces partners) in the mid-60s and asking Mrs Bingley (“Ma” Bingley as she was fondly known to us), whether LTO 10 was operating that day, as I wanted to photograph it. No sooner said, than she shouted for her daughter (?) who was the operations manager, and said – “Put t’Daimler on’t teatime dupe, ‘cos there’s a lad here wants to take a snap of it!” As promised, LTO 10 arrived into Wakefield bus station at about 5.30pm, and I got a (not very good) shot of it. Wonderful times which can never be repeated.

Photograph and copy contributed by Paul Haywood

The above bus was originally owned by A Skill of Nottingham and was delivered in 1950. Skills were supposed to take delivery of another CVD6 with Duple body as above but it went to W Gash & Sons instead as there DD7 (LNN 353) view at this link scroll down a bit and you will find two shots.

Spencer

My friend Paul has revived many happy memories of our days in the Wallace Arnold traffic office. “Ma” Bingley was Phyllis and was the “P” in “W. R. & P. Bingley – she was as Paul reports a “no nonsense” lady who quite simply got things done. That she was also a competent conjurer is beyond argument. All desperate calls from WA Hunslet for heavy assistance when summer peak demands got out of hand were calmly answered with “Ow many der yer want ??” No matter how many extra coaches we needed the necessary vehicles would appear at all hours as if by magic – fresh from pit contracts or schools or wherever – all manned by chaps who knew their place and “did as Phyllis said” without question and the impossibly large seaside passengers would all be gone without a hiccup. Slightly off the Daimler topic I admit, but Phyllis deserves an accolade as one of the real legends of the Industry.

Chris Youhill

Great story, Paul/Chris. Keep ’em coming! The human side is just as interesting as the bus side.

Chris Hebbron

10/10/12 – 09:00

The above photograph is featured on the ‘sct61’ website, along with another photo of LTO 10 in the caption of which it is asserted that Skills ordered three of these vehicles and that it was two, rather than one, which were diverted to Gash of Newark. LNN 353 (Gash DD7) was apparently intended to become Skills No.30 (LTO 30) and LRR 403 Skills No.20 (LTO 20). I haven’t been able to retrieve the Gash fleet number of LRR 403.

David Call

United Services – AEC Regent V – UWT 876

United Services AEC Regent V

United Services
1957
AEC Regent V
Roe L27/26RD

W. Everett & Son United Services to give them there full name operated from the Yorkshire village of Kinsley which is between Barnsley and Pontefract they ran services to nearby towns such as Leeds, Wakefield, Barnsley and Doncaster.
This bus delivered new to United Services along with UWT 875 another Regent V had a lowbridge body. If you look at first side window on the top deck you will see it has been smashed not by a bridge though looking at the bodywork.
United Services had quite a collection of second hand vehicles including a Dennis Loline from Aldershot & District and a very flash looking Titan with a Preston registration so ex Ribble, Scout or Standerwick I would guess. 
A good place to see more United Services photos is on the United Services section of Huddersfield Passenger Transport Group website to view click here.


This particular United Services was in fact made up of three autonomous family businesses who operated stage carriage services from the late 1920’s/early 1930’s under the United Services brand but also ran their own coach and paddy bus operations.
Willie Everett, the founder of W Everett & Son was my Granddad and my uncle Harry is the ‘son’ in the company name. Their bus depot was in South Kirkby near the parish church. The Kinsley depot belonged to Bingley Brothers, one of the other United Service operators (who had bought the business from another family called Granters who had been the first bus operator in the area). Cooper Brothers was the third family business partly operating under the United Services brand and it had a depot at one end of Stockingate in South Kirkby. The bus pictured is almost certainly from the Bingley’s fleet.

John Wrightson


06/10/12 – 18:52

I’m no expert on buses, but I used to travel on the United Services regularly in the fifties. We lived in Morley and my grandma (maternal) lived in Hemsworth, so my mother paid a monthly visit carting me along with her! This involved catching the West Riding 57/58 to Wakefield and then the United Services to Hemsworth. In the days before Wakefield Bus station we’d get off the 57/58 in Wood Street and catch the United at the Springs bus stops. In those days many of the United buses were former coaches and had windows you could wind down, like a car – guess who made a nuisance of himself winding the windows up and down.
When the bus station was built it was just a matter of changing platforms.
If for some reason we missed the United, we’d catch the West Riding service from Leeds to Hemsworth – but this only went as far as Cross Hills and we had to walk the rest. I recall also another independent operator in Hemsworth – Ideal Motor Services – I wonder what happened to them.

Geoff Bragg


10/10/12 – 09:10

The ‘Ideal’ referred to would almost certainly be, coincidentally, another ‘co-operative’ (they weren’t all that common) – i.e. that of Taylor of Cudworth, and Wray of Hoyle Mill, Barnsley, both trading as ‘Ideal’ and sharing a service running between Barnsley and Pontefract. There is a section on Ideal on this very site.
Taylor’s ultimately sold out to Yorkshire Traction, but most of their vehicles passed to Wray’s, who, I think, finished up with more ex-Taylor vehicles than ex-Wray, so to speak. Wray’s continued for a few more years (presumably running in co-ordination with Yorkshire Traction) before themselves selling out to YTC.
Another service running between Barnsley and Pontefract (but by a slightly different route) was operated by South Yorkshire Motors, but I don’t know whether or not it ran via Hemsworth.

David Call


David I can help you there, as I worked for South Yorkshire and successors (several) from 1987 until I retired in 2001. Under the WYPTE excellent route numbering scheme the SYRT (joint with Yorkshire Traction) route from Pontefract to Barnsley became 245. The service was basically hourly between Pontefract and Barnsley, with “short workings” to Hemsworth (Highfield Estate) also every hour, making a half hour frequency between Pontefract and Hemsworth – the latter Monday to Saturday daytimes only. The route was via Featherstone, High Ackworth, Fitzwilliam, Kinsley, Hemsworth, Shafton, Cudworth and Lundwood to Barnsley. The SYRT share of the mileage was handed over to Yorkshire Traction, along with the three new SYRT Dennis Darts, late in 1994 after Caldaire Group (West Riding) took over Pontefract depot. There, I bet you wish you’d never asked !!

Chris Youhill


11/10/12 – 07:19

Not at all, Chris, I’ve read a great many of your posts and they’re all enjoyable.
One thing I certainly didn’t know was that the Pontefract to Barnsley service was joint SYRT/YTC. Having had a look at the current 245 timetable, and assuming that the Hemsworth shorts interworked with the through service, I would say that four buses were required to run the basic Monday to Saturday service – two SYRT and two YTC? What would have been the Hemsworth shorts look as though they now run through to Barnsley as service 244, and the ex-Ideal service is still recognisable as the 246.

David Call


11/10/12 – 09:05

Thank you David and, yes, you’re right in thinking on “interworking” lines – at least throughout daytime hours Monday to Saturday – and that four vehicles would be needed. The South Yorkshire vehicles (and presumably YT as well) did alternate trips from Pontefract to Barnsley and to Hemsworth Highfields, taking a little under four hours for each cycle. One particularly vicious journey with which we were faced (weekdays) was at 1810 from Pontefract to Barnsley which also diverted via Highfields, a narrow and tortuous estate where by that time of day there was flagrant double parking everywhere. I may be mistaken – its a long time ago now – but I’m pretty sure that South Yorkshire did all the Barnsley journeys on Sundays with two vehicles to balance the mileage agreement, and of course there were no “Highfields” on the Sabbath.
I do still visit friends in Pontefract and I think that the whole service network in the region has been considerably modified now, especially since Stagecoach took “Tracky”, and the services running into Pontefract are numbered in the two digit “30s”

Chris Youhill


12/10/12 – 08:23

Indeed. When I checked back it seems that the timetable I had found was dated October 2006 – but still coming up on the internet, of course. What was the 245 has now become the 35, while the ex-Ideal service seems to have blossomed into the 46 and 47. I’m not saying the routes are exactly as they used to be, as you say services have generally been modified.

David Call


12/10/12 – 12:52

Both of the AEC’s, UWT 875/876 were delivered new to Bingleys in April, 1957. Out of curiosity, I looked at Bus Lists because T. Burrows of Wombwell had an identical vehicle, PWY 943. I’ve often wondered if they were ordered together but apparently not. The Burrows machine was delivered a year or so earlier and is listed as an MD3RV with the 7.7ltr. engine, the two Bingleys vehicles were D3RV’s with 9.6ltr. engines. The Roe bodies were identical though.

Chris Barker


13/04/13 – 07:23

Just a slight correction to the original text. The front window isn’t actually smashed – its the reflection of the gable end of the adjoining building – Bingleys only ever turned out pristine vehicles in service. Also they did not operate to Leeds and Barnsley as stated here. South Yorkshire Motors of Pontefract did and the confusion is because they also had a blue and white livery like United Services.

Mark B


31/05/14 – 08:01

Mention of the Ideal service, Barnsley – Pontefract, reminds me of the long service 70, operated jointly by Sheffield JOC and Yorkshire Traction, which ran from Sheffield to Upton. I often wondered why this stopped at Upton and didn’t run through to Pontefract. This would have required a fifth bus and a third operator.
The licensing system often made what seemed to be logical routes difficult.

Geoff Kerr


12/08/17 – 07:45

The “United” bus service was operated by a number of Companies in the area as stated. As I recall from growing up in the 50s Bingleys of Kinsley was known as W.R & P Bingleys. From memory I seem to remember that their buses were a darker blue than the one pictured. My Dad (Fred Stacey) did drive for them from time to time on a casual basis. As well as the Coaches used on “Trips” to the coast he would drive the “Mill Buses” which collected the Girls from the Mills and he often drove the Wakefield to Doncaster route along with Frank Bingley. They shared the duties for this using a Daimler Bus which I recall did something like 2 million miles in it’s lifetime. It was always the last bus out of Wakefield Bus Station at the weekend en-route back to Kinsley and if you missed it you walked.
Frank lived at the Upton Depot and operated from there. Albert Holmes was the Chief mechanic operating out of Gorton Street Depot in Kinsley and his Son (Paul) and I spent many happy hours playing in the garage known as Hunters Farm Garage. I also vaguely remember the Taxi they had which I believe was a Armstrong Siddeley.
These were happy times when life was at a different pace but I would bet journey times were no longer then than now.

David Stacey


30/08/22 – 07:02

I was looking for pictures of United Daimler/Duple (I think) GWW 49 and GWW 50 which I sometimes caught from Cross Hills to Wakefield for school (1949-1957). (Having come on an ‘Ideal’ to Hemsworth from Brierley). United had an elderly ‘high bridge’ double decker, ex-Leeds, I think. Great fun going round bends on the upper deck. One time, early 1950s (?) there was a strike, which didn’t involve ‘United’ crews, but we were made to get off on the outskirts of Wakefield.

John Lovett