Bournemouth Corporation – Sunbeam MF2B – WRU 261 – 261

Bournemouth Corporation - Sunbeam MF2B - WRU 261 - 261
Copyright Ray Soper

Bournemouth Corporation
1958
Sunbeam MF2B
Weymann H63D

This shot is from the Ray Soper ‘Gallery’ contribution A Trolleybus tour in Bournemouth click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments to it.
The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.


17/07/13 – 06:50

A nice view from the upper deck of a passing vehicle. This trolleybus is at a stop in Avenue Road where the Winton & Charmister trolleybus routes all departed from. The Council kiosk behind stood for many years, and beneath it were the local public WCs. Further up Avenue Road were the BCT offices at ‘Fairlight Glen’; this address appeared on the BCT Public timetables of the period.
Note the lovely GPO stamp machines and letterbox behind the bus stop; all very modern at that time. 4d for second-class!
Avenue Road was one-way at that time and had several trolleybus stops. It also had a ‘passing loop’ in the overhead to enable ‘through’ trolleybuses to pass those waiting at the stops. Route 25 ran along this road on its way from Westbourne to Boscombe. This bus on the 26 would have turned via ‘The Triangle’ just up the road.

Grahame Arnold

Bournemouth Corporation – Sunbeam MF2B – 296 LJ – 296

Bournemouth Corporation - Sunbeam MF2B - 296 LJ - 296
Copyright Ray Soper

Bournemouth Corporation
1961
Sunbeam MF2B
Weymann H65D

This shot is from the Ray Soper ‘Gallery’ contribution A Trolleybus tour in Bournemouth click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments to it.
The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.


26/04/12 – 11:35

This very vehicle No.296 was the first to enter service with the light green lining in 1962. For more detail see my comment here. 

mf2b


17/07/13 – 06:48

This lovely shot is taken at the upper end of Gervis Place, I would say, or possibly opposite the Pavilion. The ‘Christchurch’ routes all departed from this end of the Square

Grahame Arnold


05/11/13 – 10:34

I have a photo of myself driving bus no 188 in November 1973 which was a Daimler. also a photo of bus no 213 a Leyland Atlantean. It was my last day as a driver so had some photos taken as a keepsake if anyone would like a copy please forward e.mail address.

John Kilroe

Bournemouth Corporation – Sunbeam – 297 LJ – 297

Bournemouth Corporation - Sunbeam - 297 LJ - 297

Bournemouth Corporation
1962
Sunbeam MF2B
Weymann H65D

This Sunbeam MF2B was one of the last trolleybuses built for operation in the UK, in 1962. In a disgracefully short career, the batch was withdrawn when the system was abandoned in 1969. The livery can only be that of Bournemouth, and the body is by Weymann, to H65D configuration. She’s in the yard at Mallard Road for an open day on 22 May 1983. Note the special “End of Trolleybuses” decoration. The open day marked 50 years since the opening of the trolleybus system.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Pete Davies


04/09/15 – 07:19

Whenever I see pictures of these vehicles (and the equivalent Hull trolleybuses) with such clean lines, I always think what a pity the AEC Q was not resurrected after WW2, instead of attempting the Regent IV. We may have seen buses as handsome as this in the 1950’s.

Allan White


05/09/15 – 07:17

Beautiful photo of a very attractive vehicle in the lovely Bournemouth livery. You are so right, Allan, in comparing it with the AEC’s 3Q3 Q’s.

BPJ 224
Copyright Ken Glazier

Here is a picture of LPTB’s 1934 Q5 on the open road, showing just how advanced the body styling was, in this case by Weymann, for this innovative chassis.

Chris Hebbron


08/09/15 – 06:56

I grew up with these beauties passing the end of my road, in Bournemouth. They were certainly clean-lined and to my eyes they still look modern. The last batch of MF2Bs with the red seats & cream interiors had an especially light and airy feel to them. However, mechanically the design suffered with weak half-shafts which had not been a problem with Bournemouth’s earlier B.U.T. and Sunbeam designs.

Grahame Arnold


22/02/17 – 07:03

I rode on 297 LJ on that fateful day in May 1969 as a schoolboy. My parents swapped tickets with me so I could ride on the "pretty bus". The final parade started at Bournemouth pier where I had a seat on 301 LJ (which actually was my favourite) As I’m sure you all know, 301 was the last British trolleybus to be built. What a waste!

Tim Barron


22/02/17 – 13:26

The last "proper" trolleybus, Tim. South Yorkshire PTE tried out a Dennis Dominator trolleybus in 1985, but the scheme went no further.

Roger Cox


23/02/17 – 06:41

The Dominator is preserved. www.dennissociety.org.uk/ 
Lots of nice Dennis vehicle photos on their site

John Lomas


03/03/17 – 10:29

You are correct Roger, the last "Proper" trolleybus built in the UK. I had forgotten about the Dennis! I also rode on the last Bournemouth service trolleybus & the last Bradford service trolleybus. Plus I sneaked onto the last/last "proper" trolleybus to move in the UK. The late, somewhat shambolic & no doubt highly illegal run in Thornbury depot the evening the Bradford system closed. (What fun!)
Now, what was the fleet No of the Bournemouth Mf2b I rode on in the Black Country Museum some 12 years ago?

Tim Barron

Bournemouth Corporation – Leyland Titan TD5 – FEL 214 – 14

Bournemouth Corporation - Leyland Titan TD5 - FEL 214 - 14
Copyright Ray Soper

Bournemouth Corporation
1939
Leyland Titan TD5
Weymann FO58R

This shot is from the Ray Soper -Gallery’ contribution A Trolleybus tour in Bournemouth click on the title if you would like to view his Gallery and comments to it.
The shot is shown here for indexing purposes but please feel free to make any comment regarding this vehicle either here or on the gallery.


05/03/12 – 17:22

FEL 214 was immortalised in the 1966 Norman Wisdom film "Press for Time", probably the best part. Is it still in existence?

Nigel Richards


17/07/13 – 06:57

This scene would be unrepeatable today. The Pier Approach roads have gone; there is a flyover right behind where the bus is standing and the road where the bus stop was is now part of a general amusement area. The Pavilion which is visible behind the bus is still extant, but somewhat changed in appearance.
I never travelled on these old open-toppers but I do remember them. They were probably hard work for the drivers as route 12 went up and down quite a few steep hills as it ran up from sea level at Alum Chine, then down to both piers before finishing at Hengistbury Head.

Grahame Arnold


18/07/13 – 07:41

Was this the bus that ended up in the sea in the climax to a ‘chase sequence’ in the film ‘Press for Time’. I haven’t seen the film but I do recall seeing a still of an ex Bournemouth TD5 open topper running into the sea in a book.

Michael Elliott


18/07/13 – 10:08

You’re quite right, Michael E. Here’s the link to the film – the bus scene starts at 0:24:00 (mins). SEE: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFBgHiKX0Vc

Chris Hebbron


18/07/13 – 16:23

I think that the movie sequences in Press for Time were filmed in and around Teignmouth, Devon.
Mind you, I could have done without the Russian dubbing!
Good fun, all the same.

Having watched the film sequence again, there’s a bit of inconsistency. See if you can spot it. For most of the chase, the bus is on route 22, but briefly, in mid-chase, we see it operating a route 23 ! I can’t imagine why!

Petras409


19/07/13 – 08:49

To add credence to the Teignmouth/Tinmouth location, the first sighting of the TD5 also indicates the rear of an Atlantean in the background, sporting very much what looks like Devon General livery!

Chris Hebbron

Tynemouth and District – Leyland Titan TD5 – FT 4498 – 98

Tynemouth and District - Leyland Titan TD5 - FT 4498 - 98
Copyright Unknown

Tynemouth and District
1938
Leyland Titan TD5
Weymann H??F

More from my youth. 98 was one of eight 1938 forward entrance Weymann bodied Leyland TD5’s delivered to the Northern General subsidiary of Tynemouth and District. They were FT 4496/4503 numbers 96/103. About 1950 in common with many pre war vehicles they were given a new lease of life and re bodied.

Tynemouth and District - Leyland Titan TD5 - FT 4500
Copyright Unknown

100 is seen here with its second body, and you could be forgiven for asking how ECW bodies came to be in a BET fleet? Well in fact they’re Northern Coachbuilders H30/26R. I’m aware of one example of the type that’s still around, NVK 341 is a beautifully restored 1950 Newcastle Corporation AEC Regent 111 and has been featured on this site. I don’t know if the doors on the Weymann’s were powered or manual and almost certainly they would not have been equipped with heaters, but they seem to have been well ahead of their time. Does anyone know of any survivors?

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ronnie Hoye


18/12/12 – 16:35

I am not familiar with Northern General, but the forward entrance Weymann body looks very much like the ones mounted on AEC Regent chassis for Midland General in the late 30s. I can remember travelling on one of these about 1953 on the C5 Alfreton to Nottingham route. I don’t think the sliding doors were powered. Trent also had some similar ones, but these were rebodied with conventional rear entrance Willowbrook bodies (lowbridge from memory) around 1950 I think. It’s remarkable to that immediately before WW2 Nottingham had three different operators with forward entrance double deckers – since Barton also had quite a lot of Leylands, some of them rebodies of older vehicles bought second hand. These were not Weymanns however.

Stephen Ford


19/12/12 – 07:32

I’m very pleased you mentioned those Stephen because one thing I noticed was that although the Trent and Midland General Regents both dated from 1937 and both were bodied by Weymann, they were somewhat different. The MGO bodies were basically same as the Tynemouth example above. The Trent examples had an odd, longer length second window bay which resulted in a much shorter rearmost side window on both decks. Also, the bulkhead under the canopy had a single window on the MGO vehicles whereas on the Trent ones, there were twin windows. So, it would seem that Weymann had more than one front entrance double deck design in production at the same time. It makes you wonder why certain operators preferred such subtle differences.

Chris Barker


19/12/12 – 07:32

Some very nice views there, Ronnie!

Pete Davies


19/12/12 – 08:45

Weymann were renown for their metal framed bodywork and classic designs. Pre-war, there were three separate products – Flexible, Coachbuilt and Metal. Coachbuilt approximated to the composite framework used by Charles H Roe up to 1968. The featured body is a composite body. Mansfield District/Midland General had both composite and metal bodies in the pre-war period.

David Oldfield


19/12/12 – 13:39

The first photograph – that’s an original, right ?

After classic coaches, the second love of my life is the amber nectar….I’m not a historian, but genuinely amazed that Carlsberg existed all those years ago and, even more amazement, they hoped to sell it in the North East in competition with Newcastle Brown !!

Stuart C


20/12/12 – 08:05

Stuart, according to the encyclopaedia website, that brewing company was founded in 1847, and now controls a fair number of brands. The list might make you weep into your drink but includes Tetley and Scottish & Newcastle . . .

Pete Davies


20/12/12 – 09:39

An equally surprising ‘brewing’ fact is that lager, per se, was so popular in an era when most folk seemed to drink ale, porter or mild and bitter. I’ve seen pre- 1914 adverts on trams for Tuborg lager and one, dated 1908, for ‘Alsopp’s British Lager’ To me, lager seemed to take off in the late 1950’s.

Chris Hebbron


20/12/12 – 09:43

Presumably you stuck your Carlsberg on a boat and just headed west. Do you notice that they were anxious to explain that Lager (or Pilsner if you not sure what to call the stuff although it was always a long way from Pilsn) was not just a cold summer drink…? They succeeded!

Joe


21/12/12 – 07:27

Unusual to see a bus that looked so good in both incarnations, though for sheer character I go for the front-entrance original. The nice lining-out and dignified fleet name are a fine finishing touch. Did Northern Coachbuilders build these ECW lookalikes on licence, or to order, or simply as the sincerest form of flattery? Their own designs always look very good to my eye as well.

Ian Thompson


21/12/12 – 10:40

Ian. An ECW man was enticed to NCB just before NCB’s major shareholder died and they were landed with crippling death duties which did for the company. This body is closer to ECW’s original than the Newcastle Regent III – which has slightly odd (uneven) bay spacing.

David Oldfield


22/12/12 – 14:55

I can remember seeing these front entrance double deckers on the Blyth – North Shields Ferry service 7 as a small boy around 1949-50 an once did a return trip on one accompanied by my aunt. These were very different to the usual AEC Regents allocated to this route.

Gerald Walker


07/11/14 – 06:19

I have enjoyed looking at the old photos I worked at Percy Main from 1963 until 1969 but I can not remember Ronnie Hoye but you sure know your buses.

Ray 33323


07/11/14 – 15:39

Ray, do you have a Brother called Brian, who was a fitter at Percy Main?

Ronnie Hoye


14/10/20 – 07:04

Regarding Ronnie Hoye’s observation on the re-bodying of Leyland TD5’s, I think he is wrong on this occasion. According to lthlibrary.org.uk they were given ECW bodies well before NCB came out with the new 8ft wide design in 1949/50. Below is the text pasted from the LTHL site.

"1938 Leyland TD5 No. 96 (FT4496) with original Weymann 55-seat forward entrance bodywork. It was re-bodied in 1948 by ECW with a 53-seat rear entrance body. (LTHL collection)."

Ray Jackson


16/10/20 – 06:10

Ray, I believe you are correct, In the Venture book about Northern Coachbuilders there is a photograph of one of these rebodies, that of FT 4500, complete with ECW makers label in the destination box. The photo is included to afford a comparison between the two products, ECW and NCB but it provides conclusive proof that the Tynemouth AECs were indeed bodied by ECW.

Chris Barker


17/10/20 – 06:19

That these vehicles were rebodied by ECW is confirmed by PSV Circle publications, which give the body numbers as ECW Series 2 nos. 2973-2980 (not in order) with 2973-6 being new in 10/48 and 2977-80 new in 12/48. However, there seems to be a doubt as to their seating. Fleet History PA6, which covers Tynemouth and District gives the seating split as L27/26R, although that is clearly wrong, as these were highbridge bodies, while Body List B1205 states that they were H30/26R, which was standard for this style of body. As the body list is a much more recent publication, it is, perhaps, more likely to be correct.

John Gibson


17/10/20 – 06:23

Before giving the wrong answer, Ronnie invited the question as to what ECW bodies were doing in a BET fleet, and that still stands. The answer is that the rebodying was completed by the end of 1948, and therefore would have been ordered long before ECW sales were restricted. Other non-Tilling operators for whom ECW were building at the time were Middlesbrough Corporation, Birch Bros and the Red & White group.

Peter Williamson


19/10/20 – 06:10

51-37

Following up Peter Williamson’s comment about ECW bodies supplied to non-Tilling companies, a quick trawl of "Bus lists on the Web" also shows substantial numbers of rebodying work on TD chassis for East Kent and Ribble, while Southdown took a batch of 25 PS1s with C31F bodywork, and Western Welsh took 62 PS1 with B35R bodywork, all in 1947. 4 similar buses went to Isle of Man Road Services in 1948. Southdown 1249 is seen at Bognor Depot in 1972 after conversion to a mobile left luggage office; IOMRS 57 in withdrawn condition at Ramsey in 1968.

Alan Murray-Rust


20/10/20 – 06:28

Not forgetting the batch of ECW bodied Leyland PD1s delivered to North Western in 1948 which were, in effect, lowbridge versions of the Tynemouth re-bodies, seen above.

Chris Barker


27/10/20 – 05:46

North Western was a rather different case, having been a Tilling company until 1942 and having not yet been forced to change its vehicle policy. Like some other Tilling companies, at that stage it only bought PD1s because Bristol could not build enough Ks to meet the demand.

Peter Williamson


29/10/20 – 06:15

A further comment on these rebodies, I recall them being used on service 5 between Newcastle and Whitley Bay (Cemetery). Tynemouth seemed to allocate batches of vehicles to specific routes. Another batch of vehicles were AEC Regents with NCB bodies of the earlier pre-ECW look-a-like design, these being used on service 7 between North Shields Ferry and Blyth, while my earliest memory of service 4 (Whitley Bay to Gateshead) was of the Pickering bodied Guys. That route, which was later renumbered 1 seemed to be allocated batches of new vehicles displacing earlier vehicles to other routes. I have a vague recollection that the1955 batch of Weymann Orion bodied Guys were initially used on the 1/4 before ending up on the 5 replacing the TD5s, not as far as I was concerned a change for the better.

John Gibson


01/11/20 – 06:03

John, the Weymann Orion bodied GUY Arabs (two batches of them) were sturdy and robust, typical of GUY’s.
That said, the bodies were rubbish, and soon gained the nickname of Rattletraps.

Ronnie Hoye

Charlton-on-Otmoor Services – Leyland TD – FKO 223 – 293

Charlton-on-Otmoor Services - Leyland TD - FKO 223 - 293

Charlton-on-Otmoor Services
1939
Leyland TD5
Weymann H28/26R

Not one of my best pictures, I fear, but the Comet S camera did not cope well with action shots. Seen on its way out of Oxford in 1960 is FKO 223, a Leyland TD5 with Weymann H28/26R bodywork. This bus was delivered in 1939 to Chatham & District where it operated as No. 293 until 1942 when it then passed to parent company Maidstone & District as DH365. It was bought by Charlton-on-Otmoor Services in November 1955. It is thought that this bus still remains in existence, but information about its present status is scanty.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Roger Cox


18/11/19 – 10:41

What a beauty! Had sadly left Charlton-on-Otmoor services by the time I came to Oxford in 1971. Intrigued to hear that it may have survived!

Ian Thompson


23/11/19 – 06:58

What a handsome bus! How like an AEC were those TDS of the period – two fine British champions of the psv world – worldwide….
I expect we’ve all noticed how nut-rings set off the front wheels, and beautify the overall image. Manufacturers which eschewed them produced utility- looking buses and coaches – just for the sake of those trims. Guy springs to mind, and posh buses with the nut-rings removed in service as contractors site transport, looked truly down-at-heel!
Who can tell me why London transport removed thousands of rear-wheel spats in the 50’s? Those full discs looked very sleek. Few other operators employed them – why?

Victor Brumby


23/11/19 – 13:46

My 2006 copy of Preserved Buses shows FKO 223 as owned by Gibbons, Maidstone. It may well have moved on now of course but hopefully still about in one piece.

John Darwent


23/11/19 – 13:47

Those rear wheel discs caused brakes to overheat. Burys PD3s them for a very short time when new but they were very quickly binned. Some of Manchesters Fleetlines had them too and, again, they were quickly discarded. I personally didn’t like them much.

No name given,      yet


24/11/19 – 15:08

The Gibbons Brothers still own it but have partially stripped it for components. They are asking too much money for it to be a worthwhile restoration exercise unless you have a real passion for M&D.

Roger Burdett


29/11/19 – 05:54

I think that bus bodies, in the 1938-39 period, finally reached a classic shape, although I never really liked the fluting at the bottom of Weymann’s bodies. I travelled on the Leyland TD4 STL-copy STD’s of London Transport and they looked smart. Their fruity roar and crash gearbox slow changes gave a young lad goose pimples…..until girls overtook my bus passion!

Chris Hebbron


29/11/19 – 10:10

In regard to previous comments about nut guard rings and rear wheel discs, firstly London Transport removed the rear wheel discs across the fleet in the 1970s, not the 1950s. Manchester ordered discs for all its double deck fleet, except the first batch of Atlanteans, until 1964. The discs don’t cause brake overheating. Manchester in particular had a thing about overheating brakes and regularly cut back front mudguards yet ordered the discs. The reason many fleets didn’t use them and why they were often discarded, in Manchester’s case unofficially and to the ire of authority, was the same reason as the wholesale removal in London – efficiency. They had to be removed every time tyre pressures needed checking, every wheel change and every time wheel nut tightness needed to be checked. On large fleets this added considerable time to maintenance and when accountants costed this and cost won out over appearance, they were officially removed – something Manchester depot foreman had been doing for years, reporting them lost in service.
Nut guard rings were brought in to do exactly what their name implies – to stop drivers using the wheel nuts as steps into the cab. Leyland designed a ring with holes through which nuts could be tightened but only a minority of their chassis were ordered with these. Whilst many operators discarded the rings for the same reason as they discarded or didn’t order discs, others decided the extra effort in maintenance was worth it to protect the wheel nuts.

Phil Blinkhorn


06/01/20 – 11:11

Regarding previous incorrect comments concerning FKO 223. My brother Chris and I have owned this handsome classic since 1993 (Surely Weymann at it’s best!)
We’ve never actually offered the vehicle for sale.
It’s true the major components are removed but have been/are being completely reconditioned. This has cost many pounds so far as parts have had to be re-made and spares hard to source. We’ve restored many other buses and do fund 99% of work ourselves, not having luxury of a dedicated workforce.
Due to health issues we would consider passing this fine bus on, but only to someone with the wherewithal, dedication and determination to complete the project to a top class standard.
The bus still wears its ‘as withdrawn’ Charlton on Utmoor livery.

Rob Gibbons


10/01/20 – 11:52

Wonderful to hear that FKO 223 is safe. Restoration can be a very long-term business, often entailing periods where to the outside world nothing seems to be happening. Very glad too to hear that she still wears Charlton-on-Otmoor livery.

Ian Thompson

Halifax Corporation – Leyland Titan PD3/4 – TCP 55 – 55


Photo by ‘unknown’ if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee
1964
Leyland Titan PD3/4
Weymann H40/32F

Here is the 30ft Weymann bodied Titan I mentioned yesterday it has a more square appearance I will let you decide which you prefer. This Titan was passed on to WYPTE on the 1st of April 1974 and renumbered 3055
To see what the Halifax livery was like there is a colour shot of a Weymann PD2 of Halifax Corporation here.

Halifax Corporation – Leyland Titan PD2/37 – CJX 329C – 289

Halifax Corporation - Leyland Titan PD2/37 - CJX 329C - 289

Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee
1965
Leyland Titan PD2/37
Weymann H36/28F

Halifax buses with fleet numbers below 200 were owned by Halifax corporation, fleet numbers above 200 were owned by the Joint Omnibus Committee.
Photo taken 100 yards from where I used to live. Travelled miles on these Titans.


11/03/11 – 16:18

Nice shot made even better with the Yorkshire hills as a back drop.

Roger Broughton


11/03/11 – 18:58

Steep Lane terminus was perched on the apex of a hill with the reverse manoeuvre carried out by pulling up another hill to the left. There were magnificent views over the Calder Valley from the terminus. If you go there today you may well see preserved buses outside the premises of Yorkshire Heritage Bus Company down below adjacent to the railway line at Luddendenfoot. An unusual feature of Halifax buses pre Fleetline was that the double stainless top rails on the saloon seats had a timber infill with two long finger grips on each side. It’s not something I have come across anywhere else. One (or more?) small brackets were part of the stainless rails which located and secured the timber. Halifax used a rather pleasant ‘Autumn Leaves’ moquette for the lower saloon seating material. The short PD2/37 model was ideal for some of the narrow roads and sharp corners in the Calder and Ryburn Valleys.

Ian Wild


29/05/11 – 07:05

These vehicles did not have the wooden seat infill I think they were the last Weymann bodies as this factory went on strike and closed, some 10 chassis being diverted to Roe. A change away from the brown for double deck specification and removal of leather trim reduced the price and I think they had moquette downstairs and green plastic seats upstairs, I too travelled to school on these when new, they were much nicer than the 241-248 batch

Christopher


22/09/11 – 14:05

Regarding the wooden infill between the double top rails on the seats, I may be wrong here but I seem to recall seeing the same thing on the Bury Corporation PD3/6’s (with GEN registrations). If this was the case it would perhaps not be surprising since they were the last buses ordered by Richard LeFevre whilst GM at Bury, before he moved to Halifax and ordered similar, but forward entrance, PD3’s there. There is a Bury PD3 preserved, maybe someone involved with it could confirm or otherwise.

John Stringer


04/02/12 – 05:27

I seem to recall the earlier Bury Corporation Weymann bodied PD2’s also had the wooden seat infill which supports the theory that it was a LeFevre feature. These PD2’s also had the same destination display which Mr LeFevre took to Halifax. The Bury PD3/6’s had the Nottingham style ‘T’ shape destination display which infers they were actually delivered after Frank Thorpe had moved to Bury from Nottingham.

Philip Halstead


05/02/12 – 06:48

I said “I may be wrong here” – and I was! I met up with the preserved ex-Bury PD3 at the Nocturnal Heart of the Pennines Rally in Halifax last October, and it did not have the wooden seat infills, but I’m still pretty sure I did once see them on some Bury bus or other whilst on a bus club visit there. Do we not concern ourselves with the most obscure things ?

John Stringer


05/02/12 – 16:20

This last batch of Weymann bodied PD2/37 buses for Halifax was delayed by the strike at the Addlestone works. In January 1966, a contingent of staff from HPTD, including Geoff Hilditch himself, set off in Leopard 269 and collected the final few (nine, if I remember correctly) of this order, returning in convoy to Halifax. CJX 329C was one of these.

Roger Cox


05/02/12 – 16:29

This pic. captures very well how smart the Halifax livery could be and even enhance the looks of the Orion style body. If neglected and faded though this livery could look quite shabby.

Eric


06/02/12 – 07:37

It was the orange that faded badly in service, and matching the colour on replacement panels was virtually impossible. It seems that, on 8 August 1956, when Roderick MacKenzie was GM of Halifax, Daimler CVG6 MCCW H33/26R No 285 appeared wearing a reversed livery which had the orange at the top and the green on the lower panels. The negative reaction was so pronounced that the bus was quickly repainted, but the effect surely cannot have been that bad, being rather similar, I would think, to the old, attractive Chatham and District colour scheme. I suspect that good old Yorkshire traditionalism played a part in the antipathy towards the revised colour layout. I am a little surprised that GGH didn’t try this idea again. The maintenance savings would have made it worthwhile.

Roger Cox


06/02/12 – 07:38

Hope I don’t digress here. Whilst I don’t recall the Bury PD3/6’s having wooden infills I most certainly do recall that all the handrails on these buses were light green. Over time this coating wore off to expose the normal silvery metal. This was particularly so where the handrails were highly used by the doors etc. I agree that these buses were a Frank Thorpe style, not only Nottingham and Bury but Newport too. Similar style buses for all three undertakings had two track route number displays both with a small white rectangle to line up and give tidy displays. When viewed from outside the rectangle on the ‘tens’ display was on the right and that on the ‘units’ display was on the left – thus were both between the two displayed numbers resembling a decimal point of sorts so much so that a school chum of mine always referred to service 19 buses as ‘one point nine’

David Slater


06/02/12 – 13:37

Halifax buses generally looked magnificent when newly repainted, but as Eric says they could fade really badly.
By the time I undertook my PSV training in the Summer of 1973 the ex-East Yorkshire ‘Yellow Peril’ full-fronted PD2 Training Bus (403, MKH 81)) had been sold, and there was temporarily no ‘proper’ training vehicle. Instead two PD2 services buses were mostly used, both having expired CoF’s, and which were awaiting overhaul and recertification. These were 67 (DCP 67D) and 221 (MCP 221). Other spare PD2’s were used as well if they were available for a couple of hours or so. The first bus I ever drove was 67. New in 1966 it had reached the end of its initial 7-year CoF, had never been repainted during that time, and now looked really thoroughly down at heel and disgraceful.
Before Skircoat Garage was remodelled in the early 1980’s, there were two old bus side panels attached to the top of one of the rear outside walls just below roof level. They were painted in bands of different shades of green and orange, apparently as a long term trial of various different paint manufacturers’ products to assess their different weathering characteristics. How long they had been up there I never found out.
During the early days of WYPTE, those buses still in the old HPT livery mostly looked absolutely awful – not only very faded paintwork, and in umpteen different shades, but often with scrapes and dents that would never have been tolerated in HPT days. Some even had new panels still in unpainted aluminium, or in a reddish-brown primer, and were an absolute embarrassment to be seen driving, to be honest.
When I was a young child back in the late ‘fifties though, I can remember that the livery used to fade even worse, turning into almost matt pastel shades – the orange becoming almost pale yellow, the green a wishy washy dirty pale shade, and the cream more like off-white. This was probably due to the paint technology of the period and heavy industrial pollution, rather than neglect. Some of the worst were the Joint Committee’s ACP-registered Regent III’s, which probably never received the remedial strengthening work that some of the others had, and which were the first to be sold off in 1958/59.
I recall waking one morning in 1958 to find several of these and other types lined up along the road in front of our house, all with their coats of arms and fleet numbers painted out. Apparently they had been sold to a dealer in London (this would be A.M.C.C) and their drivers were partaking of a hearty breakfast in the nearby transport cafe before setting off on the long journey south. Eventually I watched them all fire up and depart in convoy, and felt really sad to see this shabby, faded and dejected collection vanish round the corner and out of sight.

John Stringer


07/03/12 – 08:43

It is correct to say that Bury had wooden fillets on some batches of its fleet this was a Richard LeFevre design which came about after a female passenger broke her wrist when she fell forward whilst trying to steady herself against the seat top after the bus pulled up sharp. The idea transferred to Halifax when Mr LeFevre became GM along with the Bury destination box too!

Richard McAllister


08/03/12 – 07:05

It’s worth noting that the current accessibility regulations for tramcars (and possibly other modes as well) recognise this issue and prohibit small apertures such as that between the top handrail and the seat frame, for this very reason. Bury and Halifax were clearly quite advanced!

David Beilby


Vehicle reminder shot for this posting


04/04/12 – 16:29

3126

I thought I had a picture somewhere showing the wooden infills between the top seat rails. Here is what was Halifax Corporation 73, by this time WYPTE 3073, near Mount Tabor on 17th January 1976. Note this batch came after the JOC ones such as 289 and both Weymann-bodied batches DID have these wooden fillers, I’ve checked with my photographs. However, the Roe-bodied ones did not.

David Beilby


05/04/12 – 18:21

Here is a link to another photo of the interior of a Halifax Leyland showing the wooden seat infills.  //www.flickr.com/  
On this site there are some really fascinating and atmospheric photo’s of Halifax and WYPTE Calderdale buses taken in service by former driver John Thompson in the 1970’s.

John Stringer


20/07/15 – 06:54

Bit late I know but the wooden I fills in the seat back rails were used on Burys Weymann PD2s and the two AECs, numbered 176-186. The earlier Weymann PD2s in the 151-175 number series may also have had them, but they were pretty much on the way out by the time I was old enough to identify the different types so I can’t say for certain.

David Pomfret

Halifax Corporation – Leyland Titan PD2/37 – CJX 323C – 283


Photograph by “unknown” if you took this photo please go to the copyright page.

Halifax Corporation Transport and Joint Omnibus Committee
1965
Leyland Titan PD2/37
Weymann H36/28F

Here we have one of Halifax corporations work horse Titans on a winters day. If memory serves me correctly they had very good heaters and were usually very warm although they did have a tendency to steam up a bit. Where I lived as a lad was at the terminus of the bus route and in those days the bus would stand there for anything from 5 to 10 minutes depending on its out-bound journey before starting back to town. When the weather was cold the driver would keep the engine running to keep the bus warm and I remember what a fantastic sound the engines of these Titans had on tick-over, very calming. The best sounding diesel engine on tick-over ever in my opinion though was the miniature train that ran between “Peasholm Park” and “Scalby Mills” at Scarboroughs north bay. I am not sure the number of cylinders 3 or 4 and probably water not air cooled but I am fairly sure it was a Lister engine, it could only be described as “music to the ears”.

A full list of Titan codes can be seen here.

I recall nothing warm about the earlier ones, as a kid I would huddle around the Clayton Dewandre heaters on the Regent III’s but buses of the 241-248 variety were way worse than the older vehicles, these later modified titans were better with moquette seating in the lower saloon and I quite liked the Roe bodied ones, but warm – no!

Christopher

06/10/12 – 07:28

I think this bus is coming from Queensbury through Catherine Slack with Windy Bank on the left. It takes me back to the time when I was without my car for a while when living on the Mountain in Queensbury. The Halifax double decker used to come up through Bradshaw. I remember the bus proudly wearing a plaque to it having been refurbished.

Alex

06/10/12 – 10:58

Actually it is passing through Cote Hill along Burnley Road, returning from Booth to Halifax. The cottages on the left are at the top of Bairstow Lane, obscured by the bus is the Peacock public house with the Warley hillside in the background.

John Stringer

If this was anywhere near Queensbury there would be at least a foot of snow not just a few inches, believe me I lived there for a few years. Three months of winter then nine months of bad weather is Queensbury.

Peter

06/10/12 – 18:49

I too lived in Queensbury from 1967 to 1986 and I got used to the weather until I’d had enough after 19 years.
Thanks for putting me right.

Alex

07/10/12 – 08:17

Peter, that sums up Queensbury pretty well from my limited experience of Halifax in the mid ‘sixties. Driving a bus up the “hill” was always an experience – not too bad until you got above Boothtown, and then the strength of the wind could be decidedly alarming. In really extreme conditions, with memories still vivid of trams being blown over, the double decks were replaced by saloons.

Roger Cox

Not to mention the FOG many a time you couldn’t see your hand in front of your face. That’s why Percy Shaw of Boothtown invented the Cats Eyes so he could get home from his favourite pub at Queensbury, can’t remember it’s name, that’s an age thing I”m afraid.

Peter

07/10/12 – 10:00

Peter The pub is the Old Dolphin just outside the the Queensbury boundary at Clayton Heights. I saw him a few times leaving in his Rolls Royce Phantom.

Alex

Sheffield Corporation – Leyland Titan PD2 – PWA 258 – 158

   Copyright Ian Wild

Sheffield Corporation
1953
Leyland PD2/12
Weymann H32/26R

Sheffield operated a number of occasional services to small villages and hamlets to the north west of the City. Ewden Valley Village lay about a mile off the main Sheffield to Stocksbridge route 57 via a Sheffield Corporation Waterworks private road and was primarily home to workers at the adjacent reservoir. Service 164 was sparse but included this Saturday morning journey taken in February 1963 with a few villagers complete with shopping leaving Weymann bodied Leyland PD2/12 at the terminus in the snow. The bus which was allocated to Herries Road Garage was one of the 1953 B fleet batch of 26 such buses originally numbered 142-167 but renumbered later in 1963 with the addition of 2000 to their fleet numbers.

Photograph and Copy contributed by Ian Wild


24/02/11 – 08:10

Coincidence. Was just looking at 687 on the South Yorkshire site before I came here to find 158.
Ewden Valley is part of the beautiful Sheffield “Lake District” of reservoirs (and forestry) to the north of the city. Originally part of the West Riding, the area came into the city with the 1974 Local Government reorganisation.
Note the treacherous conditions with “raw” snow. At least the driver had a manual gearbox to help him cope. I drove part time for Reading Mainline in the ’90s and remember a happy Saturday morning in Reading when none of the side roads had been gritted. [I had never been skating before this…..]

David Oldfield


24/02/11 – 09:19

I worked in Sheffield during that winter. I can’t remember the buses ever stopping, but perhaps they did. I don’t think I missed a day’s work. This bus has- it seems- reversed into its terminus gritless. Presumably with a gentle bit of clutch work it will set off on that lock? Are today’s buses not gritless but gutless- these people wouldn’t have seen one for weeks? Despite the weight at the rear, does the transmission stop them getting a grip or are they just too long to control and the rear weight just makes them jack-knife?

Joe


24/02/11 – 10:11

Joe, I lived through some pretty harsh Sheffield winters in my childhood – notably 1962. Once the ploughs and gritters had been out, the buses emerged. The STD buses very rarely failed the burghers of Sheffield.
With a clutch there is far more control than any sort of automatic gives. This is one reason that all STD buses from 1951 to 1959 were manual. (The advent of “no-choice” on Atlanteans and Fleetlines put an end to this – and possibly the fact that the Atlantean killed off the last trams and was easier to convert tram drivers.)

David Oldfield


24/02/11 – 10:13

Joe – Many of us older drivers know that, in snow, you need grip, not power. The answer is to pull away and accelerate in a higher gear than usual, easy with a manual gearbox.
Also, modern buses have smaller wheels, I’m sure, so a smaller ‘footprint’ in the snow.
There may be other considerations, too, of which I can’t think offhand.

Chris Hebbron


24/02/11 – 21:33

What a handsome body was this penultimate Weymann style, before the advent of the “Orion”. I believe that this style was heavier than the Orion, and that it continued after the 1954 Orion body and was known as “Aurora”, availability continuing until the late 50s. In fact, Bournemouth`s MF2B trolleys owe much to this design. Not sure about my facts here, if anyone can clarify, but, as an enthusiast, I remember their gradual demise with some regret. They were, in my view, the most handsome of all bus bodies, and were a real “classic”, their ancestry being traceable back to the first Weymann metal bodies of 1933. A truly evocative photograph!

John Whitaker


24/02/11 – 21:58

In reply to Joe, I am pretty sure that the bus as pictured had driven in to that position, it would reverse to the right of the photo before returning to the main A616 and the City down the private road which is to the left of the picture.
The nearest bus route to my home was on a pretty steep hill and I can remember in the snow drivers would go as slow as possible at the bus stop whilst the passengers jumped on the rear platform. Rarely did the buses miss in those days. My first two winters at work were 1962 and 1963. The first I was at Rotherham, the second on the edge of Sheffield City Centre, as well as two nights a week at night school. I cannot remember missing either work or night school during those winters due to the weather. I remember the single skin upper saloon domes with ice on the inside – no saloon heaters in those days!

Ian Wild


25/02/11 – 08:38

Rochdale received the Aurora on Regent Vs until 1959 (including the famous Gardners in about 1956) and Bournemouth was receiving the Sunbeams until 1962. The Bournemouths were the same design – except they had five short bays – just as the Rotherham CVG6s, contemporary to 158, had five short bays (and were also 7’6″ wide).
The Orion is much maligned – often unfairly – but there is no doubt that this is a far better and more attractive design. Only the roof of the domes was single skinned on the Aurora. Around the front (and front side) windows was double skinned, as was the area around the rear emergency exit. All of this area was single skinned on the Orion.
As I’ve said before, the first upper deck heating on STD buses was the 1325-1349 Regent V/Roes of 1960.

David Oldfield


25/02/11 – 09:37

I can’t quite work it out on the photo, and it might be a trick of the eye with dirt/snow along the bottom, but does this body have the Weymann flair? If so, it would be quite late to have this feature.

Chris Hebbron


25/02/11 – 11:18

Yes, 158 had the Weymann flaired skirt. Also, PD2’s 668 to 687 of 1953 and 688-723 of 1954 had the flair. Straight ‘skirts’ were fitted to this body style for the Regent 3’s of 1954, nos. 178-199, 724-735 and 1154-55. Further deliveries thereafter were Orions.

John Darwent


28/02/11 – 06:59

This body design came out in 1952 or 1953. I have been aware for some time that Croft of Glasgow built similar-looking bodies, and have always assumed that they were Weymann-based – until I discovered that Croft were actually building them several years before Weymann! The one at this link must have looked incredibly modern in 1949.

Peter Williamson


02/03/11

Thanks for the Albion-Croft link, Peter W. The Croft body’s modern look is emphasized by the wonderfully thirties-looking Albion chassis–especially the radiator!

Ian Thompson


06/03/11 – 08:18

The Rochdale 1959 Regent V’s were probably the final incarnation of the Aurora design and what magnificent vehicles they were. When originally delivered in Rochdale’s majestic blue and cream streamlined livery they looked superb. The last four 319-322(TDK 319-322) had platform doors, believed to have been added to the spec so as not to be outdone by Bury Corporation whose Orion bodied PD3’s had this feature and operated on the joint routes 19 and 21T between the two towns. Compared to the Bury vehicles which I always found noisy and rough, the Rochdale Regent V’s with their semi-automatic gearboxes, were much more refined.
One of these vehicles was preserved at Sheffield Bus Museum. Is it still there? One of the 1956 Gardners is in the collection at Boyle Street, Manchester.

Philip Halstead


06/03/11 – 09:09

Yes, it’s still at Rotherham. [The museum moved!]

David Oldfield


07/03/11 – 09:27

I remember the Rochdale Regent Vs (and the preceding Daimlers with basically similar bodies) very well as I used to use the 17 service in Manchester regularly. What impressed me even more than the features Philip mentions was the interiors. They were fairly basic really, with leatherette seats and painted metal window cappings, but who would have thought that two shades of blue, together with a strangely translucent white on the ceiling, could be so restful? With those colours, the smoothness of the drive train and the soporific crooning of the transmission, a 12-minute journey on one of those was almost enough to induce an altered state of consciousness!

Peter Williamson


12/03/11 – 08:00

I agree with Peter, the Rochdale interiors were plain but very clean and fresh feeling. As a child I was a bit susceptible to travel sickness and somehow the Rochdale interiors seemed to calm my problem. It is surprising how interior features stick in ones mind from those childhood days. Manchester’s ‘standard’ bodies were very dark and oppressive inside with dark moquette seats and dark varnished woodwork. In the days of almost universal adult smoking the moquette seating seemed to soak up the stale tobacco fumes even in the lower saloon. We used to travel into Manchester from Rochdale on the 24/90 service, jointly worked by Manchester, Oldham and Rochdale corporations and I would always hope our bus would be a Rochdale vehicle.
The Oldham buses had some distinctive internal features I well remember. Hanging leather straps in the lower saloon with handles similar to horse-riding stirrups. A row of domestic style Bakelite light switches with porcelain fuse holders on the front lower saloon bulkhead above the driver’s cab window. The words ‘Oldham Corporation’ were emblazoned across the front bulkhead in gold lettering – civic pride still existed in those days! And finally the ‘Honesty Box’ on the rear platform. Did anybody ever put anything into it, I wonder? I also remember the Oldham Roe bodies were a bit short on bell pushes in the upper saloon and conductors would give the starting signal from the front with a couple of heavy stamps of the foot on the floor above the cab!
We seem to concentrate our interest in the exteriors of buses but not much is written or photographed about the insides.

Philip Halstead


13/03/11 – 08:05

Philip, I fully agree regarding bus interiors. That was the environment in which you travelled, and it was often very distinctive – location and style of bell pushes (or cords or strips), pattern of light fittings (before the arrival of standard fluorescent strip lights), seats and upholstery – even smells. Perhaps there are a few more interior shots out there to add another dimension?

Stephen Ford


04/06/18 – 07:03

This is a few years after Stephen’s comment which I’ve only just read, but with regard to ‘smells’, I used to love getting a green West Riding tin-front Guy from Sheffield to Ecclesfield back in the 1950’s. Unlike the STD buses, they were cleaned with a pleasant, perfumed disinfectant which I can still ‘smell’ to this day.
At that time, I think both West Riding and Yorkshire Traction buses carried posters on the windows stating ‘Cut the fuel tax. We don’t like it, you don’t like it, it must GO!’. Anyone else remember that ?

Mike C